RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: Debating Teeny’s Best Move | S47 Ep 3 with Harry Hills

Episode Date: October 6, 2024

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss chats to Australian Survivor All Star Harry Hills about episode 3 of Survivor 47. The duo debate the best move for the Lavo power players, chat the strategy for going on the boat to the journey and wrestle with the Chissy in a difficult strategic episode.

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Hello everyone and welcome to RHAP's coverage of Survivor Global for Survivor 47. I'm your host Shannon Guss. We're here to discuss week three, very sad week in RHAP that one of our own Asia Welsh was voted out, made it to week three in a six-person tribe which is apparently a place where RHAP people go home which has been a bit of a talking point this week. It's very upsetting but I do have something to cheer us up. A great guest to talk about this episode, someone I always love talking about point this week. It's very upsetting, but I do have something to cheer us up. A great guest to talk about this episode. Someone I always love talking about Survivor with. It is a great Harry Hills. Harry, thank you for being here.

No, thanks. Thanks for having me. Really like to be here. We've made it like an annual thing now. October is the time. Yeah. Not on purpose. I just like, I'm like, well, what about Harry?

That's just a bit of a glimpse into my thinking, into the production side where I'm like, Harry, and then you're here and that's that's a bit of a glimpse into my thinking into the production side where i'm like harry and then you're here and that's great um but you know i say that it will cheer people up but it probably won't because every week what i'm really doing is being like here are the people who are not on australia versus the world my guests harry hills people are so upset about it harry that you're here with me. Although technically I think you could kind of be here with me and do both maybe if you'd really hustled. But you're not on the season. No, I'm not going to be on the season. It has been a whirlwind the whole preseason,

people talking more than they should. It's just a funny thing. Whenever they have returning seasons, it's like there's just like a buzz. It's like finals football it's just a weird thing and everyone just sort of starts getting like a bit into it obviously can't go into details but um it's it's been this really interesting ride going from it getting uh told to players known to players all the way up until obviously today where things are basically done. Yeah, which is crazy to think about.

And now we'll just wait. Yes, now we have the horrifying wait where we have to actually see where they decide they're going to like put it on television. Yeah, the horrifying wait. I love it being described as that. That's great. Yeah, and Shawnee's been announced, your fellow rascal. Yes. My friend George, he's on it. that that's great um yeah and shawnee's been announced your fellow rascal um my friend george

he's on it they probably have beef how are you feeling looking into it are you like are you excited about it or is this like yeah i mean australia versus the world it is kind of crazy that it's happening yeah and i think it's it's a who's who and i think it's also a mixture of players that you could make assumptions about how they're gonna play um but then there's also a mixture of players that you could make assumptions about how they're going to play but then there's also like the little personal relationships there's things that you might not expect there's things that do happen behind the scenes and so it's a really weird mix in terms of they've got very like prominent relationships they've also got things that are sort of not so prominent and so I don't think it will be as easy to predict as people assume um I think that there will be interesting relationships that happen because you kind of just expect people to just

stay in their circles because I like I mean I'm not going to go into spoilers or anything like that but obviously um like people have past relationships, but yeah, I think, I think you can't go in with assumptions. So I'm just excited for it really. I think that there's a lot of players with potential there. Yeah. Well, I'm excited as well. And yeah, we'll just like hunker down for the horrifying wait, as you've said, and get it on television. But how have you been since last October? Was it

since? Yeah, since we've since last October. Yeah, good. Things are going well. I moved yesterday. So I'm here at my mom's house. Yeah, very, very clean move. We've done well. I've got my coffee. I've got my protein shake, which also for some reason has caffeine in it. So that's really good. Keeping busy. Going to go bungee jumping later. No, that's just a joke from what you listened to last week. If not, how dare you? But no, honestly, like I don't know what is a scarier prospect,

bungee jumping or moving. Like doing this on a moving weekend is truly a gift to us because moving moving is like I think anyone who's ever moved can say like the great that's the horrifying thing moving like the worst human experience truly so the fact that you moved this weekend and you're still here on the podcast yeah it's unbelievable thank you so much I don't get people who do it like every six months like some people like oh yeah you know like find a new rental place like find a new spot every six months I've moved like three times in my life and and I want to do it as little as possible yeah I moved around a lot as a kid but then I wasn't doing anything you know my parents were moving and I was just with them it

was still honestly pretty tough not to go into my whole childhood but um you know we moved a lot but now now that I'm an adult and I have to move myself I try not to do it a lot because it is horrendous so and it's it's not just the moving itself it's also the process of just like looking at things and being like why do I have this like I don't need this but then you don't want to get rid of it yeah oh there's there's there should be like a word for like it's not like the Marie Kondo stuff it's like that middle group like basically the chair stuff you know you have like a chair when stuff isn't clean or dirty there should be a version of that of stuff you don't want to throw out yeah but you don't want to throw it away like oh it could be valuable

yeah we didn't get rid of stuff we got rid of stuff before and now we kind of like, oh, that actually would have been handy to have like that extra chair or stool or whatever. So now it's going to be even worse from this point on now that we've like had that experience as well. But anyway. Well done, honestly, because that takes a lot of guts. Like that's a tough one.

So you should be proud of yourself for moving and culling some chairs and now you're here sitting on at least one chair with me and I really I really do appreciate it yeah no I'm very happy to talk about Survivor happy to talk about US Survivor especially um one of my favorite things to do yes okay big episode as I said really big decisions I feel like this was so complicated and everyone has a different take on it to a degree like how much was Asia twist screwed or how much did she have to do with it or how much was it on Teeny or like did Teeny and Keyshawn do the right thing how are you feeling about the season in general before we get into like the nitty-gritty of all of that um I like the direction they're going. I think this season in particular, like, I feel like we

always talk when it's like a little bit too early in the season to kind of decide. Um, so at the moment, like I've got people I really like, there's no one who I'm like obsessed with, but as a whole, I really, really like the direction they're taking. Like, you know, we've got these longer episodes, so you can really get to know people. It's time to see a few more things where it's like just them at camp or just seeing a bit more insight into the person so I really like that that's the part when I'm watching especially post playing I feel like I really really appreciate some of the nuance and I feel like that is something we've actually got maybe like this season and last season it's a bit more depth like I think especially all the players we're probably going to talk about the most people like Rome is a perfect example where you've

actually got depth to them like yes they've got their character and like Rome is abrasive and that sort of thing but he's also like shown that he's actually a good player and then he's also shown that he's got personality on top of that so you've actually got layers to it it's not just this like one dimensional I don't like him because he did this and and just that cut off so um from that perspective I'm really enjoying how much depth we're actually seeing of some of them at least so far yeah I do feel like a lot of what we get of Rome is in like brutal montages yeah I don't know it's's a funny one. And I think there is a lot to argue about. And I think that there'll be a lot of people on, you know, Twitter, Reddit, that sort of thing, arguing about it because it

is nuanced. I mean, you look at him going and getting fish and then eating half of it for himself. I mean, one person will say that's fair. He did go out and get all the fish himself. So he's only taking half of it. And then another person is like, you're an idiot. It's a social game. Why wouldn't you just share your fish? It's not that big anyway. And I think maybe the true answer is like somewhere in the middle.

Again, there's like depth to it. But it is also an example of you can't, even if you're doing the the right things you can still become a pariah if you're not fitting in with everything around you and so like if other people are chilling and you're the one you know going and doing the pot and fishing and all that sort of thing like it might seem like oh like I'm being the workhorse and this is great but sometimes people just don't care like people will still want to get rid of you anyway. Yeah. I mean, I definitely fall into the camp of like, you know, earn your social capital. Like if you found the fish, like what you're not eating all the fish,

but what you're gaining is social capital. That's why I would lean anyway. But even more so because it's like, he wouldn't let anyone use the fishing gear. And then it's like, but then I caught all the fish. It's like we didn't give anyone else the chance. So I think that's like the thing with Rome. I mean, like there's, there's a lot of layers to Rome. Like I'll'll spoil it now like for someone I'm going to give three chizzy points to there's a lot to criticize you know this is someone who has very little game

awareness seemingly very little self-awareness um those are important skills in Survivor you know that's usually what I talk about as like the most important things and I and I recently wrote an article for the confessional about like how you accrue social capital to spend it and I don't feel I think in ways Rome has done that with his advantages but I think largely it's through just barreling through the game like it's not as much about like making the relationships and then you know like using those relationships it's more about like somewhat again with with like you know Teen teeny said he's shown loyalty but like intimidation you know that's like the fear that he's striking into people's hearts and i did say in the article that that is one way to accrue social capital but you know the the check doesn't

necessarily clear and like everything rome has done in terms of like individually looking for idols and like alienating himself are things that i wouldn't condone but it has worked and I think that he's someone I wouldn't really think has a chance to win and I don't think so anyway still but I think this is his best shot to play this kind of game but he's full tilt and he barrels through the game and he does the most and he pulls people over and they're overwhelmed by it maybe even against their best interest definitely against their best interest and that's how he gets people on side and it's very unorthodox and it's it's like a dreyer game or even like the way ben drebergen eventually had to play and it's just like one type of game and i think it's his best shot and i think that's what he's doing but it's

not something that i would go out and preach yeah no i think i think there's there's like a lot to criticize but at the same time, it's almost like he just looks at it differently. And I think the best example is the fact that weren't they looking at his idol box and then he just like walks in? And I don't remember him really getting very upset about it, did he? Like I'm just trying to remember off the top of my head. No, I think he played that well. Yeah, and so it's this sort of interesting thing where maybe he just looks at it

differently. And I was probably guilty of this when I first played. And it was the first week is you go in there and you've been a survivor fan for, you know, like decades or however long it is. He started watching last year, but I understand. Yeah. I guess maybe on his case he's i guess maybe on his he's a competitor um so maybe he's amped up to just go gung-ho and he's expecting everyone else to play that way as well and it doesn't work that way like everyone's going to play differently and you're supposed to be more flexible um so obviously he's not picking up on that and that's a very bad thing that he's trying to go

so aggressively into everything part of me thinks he just wants the experience as well though he was being a little bit of a he's being very immature um when they were sort of doing that uh pre-planning for the challenge and just sort of being very demanding be like no like like i gotta do this like i'm gonna be angry at everyone if i don't get my way um and like that's he was not wording it well like there's ways that you could probably get your way and not have it look that bad um but I mean he he actually backed it which you gotta respect as well like and that's where he does have depth to him like normally we get edits of these characters and it's like they include that and then they just bomb.

Like you'll see it's like a Debbie or something like that. And he literally did it on the mat next to him. Yes. You'll have this sort of like edit where it's like they deliberately show them being overconfident and then it's like massive fail, like funny music. Oh, look at him like fail on the balance beam. But yeah, Rome actually backed it. So like you got to respect some of it, definitely.

Like he's more of a strategist than a social player. And I don't think it's going to carry him super far. But I mean, he's getting the full experience. He's finding things and he's managed to strong arm people. He's getting the full experience. He's finding things and he's managed to strong arm people. So I can't, I can't fault him 100%. Like it's working for him.

I don't think it'll work to the end either, but I think it's working for him now. Yeah. I think Rome is a very aggressive player in any context. And especially with this cast in preseason, we're very much like, I don't want to go on the journey. I don't want it to be about advantages.

Like we come off 46, we know it like idols are a curse. And it was funny like Gabe had that montage Gabe hadn't even seen all of those people go home with an idol like they left half a meter part way through the season he hadn't even seen I think like Q I think maybe just Q but like still it was gonna add to it um so this cast like specifically I think are not wanting to play Rome's game so that alienates him even more but then like I think in many ways, he's outpacing them. And we can talk about like how he's the one

who goes on the journey and he's the one who puts his hand up for everything. And then he gains the things other people don't want. He's the one hustling, looking in a way that other people don't want to do as much. And again, I like that type of gameplay. I want people to be cohesive and communal and, you know, social rather than advantage based

in individuals he's been but then he's so far outpacing them and that and then using it well so i'm definitely gonna be praising rome as i said it like i think he's a clear like three shizzy points here and i don't even see a clear two so he has all the power but like before we get to him i'd love to talk about um teeny kishan who have like the main choice here of who they're going to go with um why do you feel like they made this move like get in their headspace of how you feel this went for them look i think it all depends on context like everything is context in survivor it all depends on the exact situation that you're in and they're sort of looking at i mean it's it's pretty much a two, two, two.

Like that's what we've been kind of shown. Like we've been shown that it's like Sol and Aisha and then, let me check my actual notes, like Roman, Genevieve, Tini and Kashan. And they can pretty much go either way, which means, I mean, to me, that's the true power, the fact that they can technically go either way like you can I mean you can make arguments both ways you can make arguments that they could absolutely aggressively play that situation um but I mean I'm looking at that as well and you've got you've got Genevieve and Rome on one side and Rome is a clear lightning rod and then you've got a lot of

danger there as well and then you've got Aisha on the other side they did show a little bit of what was kind of happening where Tini was trying to sort of get through it trying to sort of see whether they would be more flexible or something like that, open to like voting for one of their own to survive. I mean, you can't really judge it as if they are this, you know, long-term player that fully understands how to manipulate these situations. Cause I mean, they've never been to a tribal before, like none of these players have. So you really have to treat it like it is like a first tribal.

So to have that sort of insight does actually show that teeny is extremely smart because most players don't fully understand all that sort of ramifications that come with every single vote like until you've done a lot of them um so the fact that she was even trying to keep her hands clean um was good that she was trying to sort of see if if that would actually work. To me, I mean, it all just comes down to context. They're the third tribe to actually go to vote someone out. From a statistics point of view,

they're probably going to only go down to like four, probably, just off the numbers. I literally did the maths. Has anyone actually done the maths of like the meta as it stands right now like 41 till now with you in terms of what so all right so basically uh you've had 18 tribes we're talking 41 to 46 because we haven't finished 47 obviously so 18 tribes how many of those do you think have made it to merge as either a four or a five yeah i think i did do this math actually but like a while ago um other than the disaster

tribes like yeah you're not going to more than a tribal or two um how many disaster tribes have we had so what out of 18 tribes we've had so many disaster tribes i don't know i'll say 14 14 tribes have been to more than two tribals max so almost perfect it's 13 so it's like that includes like medivacs and stuff as well so yeah i think about that yeah but it's still i mean if you're just looking at numbers like you've got a reasonable chance if you just make a core three or a core four you've got really really good chance of just making it to merge and then if you decide that that's going to be with a lightning rod like Rome then all of a sudden you've at least got your foot in the door because it really feels in the modern era that you

need that little bit of breathing time in the mid game to just sort yourself out and try and like push other threats so that you can get through so really if you get there with a four one of them is a clear person who everyone will just point at um then all of a sudden you've like automatically made it through to like the best part of the game so to me i think teeny like she went through all the options kishan we didn't really get to see that but obviously he's showing a lot of patience because you can see his like facials where rome starts talking and he's just like like trying to hold it in so he's obviously got a lot of patience in the stuff we see but they tried to suss it out how things would actually go to me I think if

you're anyone in that tribe like you've already had two people out of the likely six eliminated from the game just take the easy option like if you're in a four in any kind of four I would just take it so if you've got the easy way with Rome being the lightning rod I would take it personally I'm going to contradict myself a bit because there's a lot of what you're saying that I agree with and that I've done my own math around and this is for people like Asia and even Kyle it's like because Kyle's offered you know maybe just Tian in front of him I would take that if I'm on the bottom because yeah if you just get to a four that that could be good enough like I did my own math that 44 chance that your tribe is never going

back to tribal council assuming a merge at 13 which i think is a pretty good assumption there's only two challenges left definitely one of these tribes will never go back to tribal council if that's the case there's three tribes only two chances to go to tribal council let alone a tribe could lose twice so you don't know where you're going to stand in that but the odds are pretty good that if you're on the bottom, you just need to survive. And when we talk about someone like Asia, that would be my criticism around like, if you're on the bottom, which he didn't know, and that's the criticism.

But if you, like someone like Andy pushes John, maybe they never go back to tribal council. Maybe just getting through that is the merge, let alone the other opportunities that have opened up for Andy. So if you're on the bottom, I do think anyone but me, it's a good tagline for a reason yeah and then you get through just getting through one like as an example Marianne just got through that one tribal council where Mariah went and then got new life with the Merge and won so I think that

can be it when you're on the bottom I think where I'm more critical of it for Tini and Kishan is that I don't think they need to be that dire about it like sure you could maybe get to a four um but I don't think they just need to get dire about it. Like, sure, you could maybe get to a four, but I don't think they just need to get to anything. They were in power, and I feel like now they've lost that power and control. So that's part of the criticism where I feel like I could expect more from a pair that was in such a good spot.

The other part of the criticism that I have is leaving Rome and Genevieve in with a vote steal, they could use it. They have the power, yeah. yeah yeah like even for one time they they have that is the interesting thing then how much does teeny actually know like do they know the exact rules of the stealer vote um what was it like shown like or did he just steal the vote yeah so like they know a vote steal yeah okay so yeah then you know they're going down yeah yeah going down to five people that means that as long as Rome has one ally he basically

controls the vote at five and he does um so then you can split it two two two uh he plays his idol and then it's a two two on Genevieve votevieve out, and then Rome doesn't have any power. But then you have a crazy Rome who is specifically angry at Kishan and Tini, and then you increase your chance of if you do go back, you could be in danger. Yeah. I mean, to me, like, you can sort of see everything tick over, and I don't think it's this thing where you have to be halfed on any one decision, but to me it got to the point where, yes,

you're giving up power, but you're also with someone who's been since day one sharing all their information with you and trying to build something. And Rome, even though he's aggressive, he would still want to sort of build some sort of thing he wouldn't want to go into merge with like no one and just be this guy with advantages and that sort of thing like you still need people to have power so he wouldn't actively be trying to like destroy his tribe unless he realized he was on the bottom his tribe unless he realized he was on the bottom well for me if i was rome or teeny kishan like how i try to go forward would depend on like where i lose the next challenge because if you lose

the next one and now you've lost two in a row you could fear that you're going to lose even one more before emerge um and at that point if i'm teeny then i'm thinking oh if we just vote out sol here now we're going to a four where he has a vote steal if i'm rome i'm thinking oh they won't want to do that i should get one on them in case they're trying to come for me to not do that so i should use my vote steal at five to ensure that i have the numbers so that they can't come for me then it's sure but i don't want to go down to a two two with no vote steal so i will vote out like a teeny or a kishan and keep a soul and be in like a 2-1-1 situation if i'm like if i was forward planning and being very aggressive which rome is that's how i would think about it and he has the power to do it like it's putting it in rome's hands where he is somewhat erratic

and he is an aggressive player and we have the confessional and i hope it's not like chekhov's confessional where he has distrust of teeny while they've bridged it you know he he did walk up on Tini showing Kishan the idol last week so I hope that doesn't kind of come back to bite Tini in that so it's putting it in Rome's hands that's my criticism and I feel like we can like go to what Tini actually said which was basically that they felt overwhelmed by Rome and scared I think they actually use the word scared and felt like they should kind of steer into the current um yeah and I and I see it because I think I think it is difficult like when someone has so many advantages and you're like up against it I see that but I also think there were workarounds to take it on

and I feel like the juice was worth the squeeze from a cup for the couple of reasons of not giving Rome all that power and also because I feel like Asia and Seoul were a better long-term working group for Tini and Kishan so I feel like that makes it worth it to take it on yeah yeah it's a hard one though because you are asking a lot of a first-time travel like imagine going into a first travel ever and it being this 2-2-2 where everything has to go exactly as you planned. The idol has to get, well, the idol will get played. So that's sort of like variable out.

But like you do need to make sure that every single one of the other five players is voting exactly how they say they're going to vote, which is not the confidence level you have going into a first tribal. Like I had a very, very simple first tribal and it still felt like you just didn't have that level of confidence. Like you try and like show confidence because like that makes other people more reassured and then you just get the result that you want. But even in a simple vote, my first time I was like, well, I don't know like where I stand like are there other things that like I just haven't seen

like are people is there going to be like seven votes that like I just had no idea they were coming from um so it is asking a lot to not go with the safe thing I think they have given up a lot of power but I don't think they're in the situation where Rome will abuse it um it has put them at risk so yeah I guess it's just it it's more you're looking at it not from a point of power if like again it's context if it was like a 10 person tribe if it's like two tribes of 10 then yeah you're gonna try and like get rid of the power player but if they're going to merge after like one more tribe or like that's likely then I would probably just relinquish power and just sort of hope for the best basically I have enormous sympathy for teeny because all my thoughts around this I think there were

workarounds where teeny can keep the power and have the better option, which is Asia and soul and definitely Asia, um, as an ally. Um, but like all my plans are like convoluted and like written in like extensive notes where I'm like, well fed and I've slept and like, well, it was daylight savings today. Okay. I lost that hour. But, um, and even so like, yeah, and it's hurting my brain so with all of that like i do feel sympathy for teeny because i think it is all very convoluted but i still think that there is a workaround that's worth it because i wouldn't put it in rome's hands it's like i don't think

rome will abuse it but he can and i just don't like that and i think that rome is a lightning rod and a shield to a degree but also a much worse ally for the kind of game that teeny is going to want to play being such a social player and i'm saying teeny but i mean the like t-shawn duo because it is the two of them doing that but like as a pair that has been so social and had all the relationships like rome's going to go into a merge and put people off whereas like having especially asia i think would be someone who would make allies like you need a group you don't go into a merge of a three person of the three tribe format with a majority you need to make new allies so I feel like Rome while being a shield is also like you know a bit of a kind of distractor socially and will put people off and that is a negative thing so yeah I think that

that's probably a con um as well but I think for me like at first I thought for teeny because at the like we take it back to 42 at the Vati Tribal Council where we had some similarities in that Daniel Strunk and Chanel were in the middle and they were between Jenny and Mike who they wanted to work with and then Hai and Lydia who they wanted to work with less. And then at the point where Chanel and Mike had lost their votes, I was like, okay, even if you want to work with them more, if you want to work with Mike and Jenny more, you can't.

It's now untenable. And because you're Schrodinger's swing vote, you haven't actually chosen a side. Like you're on both sides to this point until you draw a line in the sand, which Teenie didn't want to do. You can still make the decision. And I wanted them to make the decision

that was tenable at that point, which was to go with High and Lydia. So part of me felt like, yes, if it feels untenable, go with Roman Genevieve. And you were always with Roman Genevieve. No one can say otherwise. But I would prefer, and given that I think there is a workaround, I would rather have taken it on because I don't feel it was as untenable

as 42. And I think my workaround, which is possibly too convoluted, seven days on the beach, first tribal council. But if the fear is we're going to split 2-2-2, but he has a vote still. So that could ruin it. That could take away the 2-2-2, but he has a vote steal, so that could ruin it. That could take away the 2-2-2. You have all the information. It is scary.

Yeah. What you do is the vote still has to be played before the vote. So if he plays it, then, well, if he doesn't play it, that's great. We can split all 2-2-2 and you do it.

I think leaving Rome, Genevieve and the vote steal in together is the thing for me that I wouldn't want to do that is too dangerous so what i would do is yeah if he doesn't play it we split if he does play it you've gone to asia and you've said this is what's happening you've already told her about the idol you've already left that as a loose end in case you're gonna have to go with rome and genevieve just extend that information to be like he also has a vote still so we want to work with you what we're going to do is we're going to we're going to do the two two two if he plays it then we're on sol then it's too late then we literally have nothing we cannot split the vote let alone they would you know win at a tie

assuming he uses the vote still correctly so so does asia know about the idol then asia knows about the idol yeah kishan we see tell asia about the idol but we don't know about soul but we do he doesn't know about the vote steal if they did that then they can say plan is we're going to really try save soul we're going to do two two two and if he steals a vote we're voting out soul that will really suck we don't want to do it we have no other option we've put it off you but we are going to come back to a tribe of five where rome and genevieve are together but they don't have the vote still he will have had to use all of his ammo to do that and then at least to come back with a sure majority which teeny and kishan don't

currently have and i think to me that's it's convoluted it's a lot it's too much possibly but to me that's i think it i think it's too much to expect of starting players, but also, I don't know. I think the onus is probably on Asia and soul. Soul seems very smart. He seems very able to read people. They saw that scene where he basically just said that like run was full of it. And he just said that he was like lying to him, which was a good sort of read that run was just sort of bullshitting.

To me, I think the onus is probably on them, but it's whether they realise that they're the ones on the bottom or not. But they don't have all the information. They should did, yeah. So I think it came down to just half measures on Tini and Kishan's part. Like I think that they wanted to play this middle and they wanted everything to work out perfectly and clean but they really needed to be decisive like and they needed to kind of get their hands dirty one way or the other and like technically they did they they made the choice

that they made um I think it's a 50 50 like you can you can relinquish power, but play the numbers and the idea that you're probably only going to go back one more time. And then you've got a very, very clear buffer. Like you've got the buffer person in Seoul. So basically it would need to go back two more times before you actually are going to get. Well, assuming that Rome doesn't use the vote steal in a crazy way at five and to me that's just putting too much expectations on Rome and maybe

that's teeny skill managing a personality like Roman and I don't think that's untrue yeah I just think that that's not how I'd like my power to be if I look at where they came in they all came into this episode like Rome's at the top of the tribe Rome has all the options all the power like I'm crediting that and teeny I felt who did such good work and had alliances with every person I feel has relinquished a lot of that out of fear and I don't like a confessional where it's like I'm scared and I and I'm and I'm overwhelmed by this person like that is Rome winning like that is gaining on teeny in a way that like if teenies, teenies aren't doing it out of agency, teenies doing like not finding the work around here. And I, and I think it was worth taking it on.

But it is exponential as well. Cause it's like, let's say you just have an idol. Like that's a little bit scary in itself. I get it. But it's not that scary because it's like everyone is 2024. Everyone sort of knows, like I can split. Everyone's got an idol. I have an idol. Yeah.

But then exponentially, if you have someone who's just like, well, I'm immune, like I'm just playing the idol on myself, I'm immune, and I also have other things that I can play with no immediate ramifications, that I feel like to someone who's literally never been to a tribal council if you have someone say they literally can't be voted out and they have other things then it's like this like exponential scariness like it's way more than just having one or the other it's like they're literally invincible and then people when they have that and they know they're going to play it

play with a lot more confidence like people that just know that you know I've got an idol I'm going to play it I'm going to be fine like you really have the sort of thing of like you can just push things I know when I played there was a couple of times where I was like that was like well I know I'm safe so I'm just gonna like really push people at tribal and just like force a narrative or an agenda or something like that. And people can sense it. When I had like, when I had an idol, you'd push people and had an advantage of safety.

You push people. So that's also like Rome could have been doing that behind the scenes as well. He's just like, look, like I'm immune. I've got this, like, let's, let's just do this he's already aggressive um but i think it's like while the plan is convoluted also the fears are convoluted he was gonna play his idol on genevieve maybe or he's also which i think asia was correct in saying like he wouldn't do so i think it's like you know an okay bet especially where you can split but you can't split because you'll steal the vote like a lot of that is like preparing for the absolute worst like too much overthinking it to a degree like too much fear in that when it will probably you know go a

certain way which is he's going to play the item on himself and keep the vote still and the thing is like even if he plays it all even if it goes at its worst you are in a position where it'll just bounce back. If you choose for it to bounce back on soul anyway, and then he's cleared out the whole bag of tricks. And yes, it is scary to keep room in the game as the biggest hustler who has said, he's going to come back and look even harder.

I think a lot of that is how Rome will come back. And the fear of, of what you'll be up against with that. Like he could play Sean in the dark. He could find another idol. If you win enough challenges, he's made it to a merger or swap and he has like your name, you know, of what you'll be up against with that. Like he could play Shaun of the Dark. He could find another idol. If you win enough challenges, he's made it to a merger or swap and he has like your name, he's out for you. In saying that,

you know, I would clear it out and then just try and take him out because how are you going to play the game like that? Can't, you know, he has a hostage. Like we can't, you know, do that for Rome. Like, is that how you're going to play the whole game? Like that is such a restricted game. Like you have to take it on now.

You can't play with that kind of fear with this person through the next you know 19 days so I think it's like you start as you mean to go on and if they want to start with the mean to go on to like be like completely held up by Rome that's what they've done you know or you take it on and you show Rome who's boss the person with the relationships and you take care of that I think think there is extreme fear in that. I have sympathy for teeny in that. I would be scared of it, but I think at a point you have to try and weaken it. You have to move forward with the people you'll work with better and you have to take a shot. And if the shot fails,

like at least Rome used everything in his arsenal to do it. And then you go out and hustle and you go out and try to find the thing. And then, you know, try and deal with Rome from there. It is scary. It could go badly. He could find another idol. Now you can't split and now you're screwed, but he also could not. And I think that playing the game with that type of fear is just, it's just an unfortunate way to start for Tini Kishon, who was so in the middle and had such great like social capital.

And I just feel like now I'm not in control due to Rome overawing them with the, you know, what he amassed it's a funny thing it really it really is like literally just social verse strategy basically like they're they're the ones that have a lot of social power a lot of social currency but couldn't use it it's also it's just an interesting thing with to me the more and more we've gone into new era the more people play safe because all the variables that pop up sort of force people's hands to do that and to me like the 2-2-2 is like if you like draw it out on paper if you've got all the time to sort of like check it the 2-2-2 is the exact correct play. Like you've got the most power from it.

You've got the best results from it. But to me, I wouldn't admonish them for the choice that they've made. I think it's fine. I think that they'll be fine. I think they probably only go to one more tribal. I don't know. But I mean, based on the numbers, like the likelihood is that they're fine. It's funny.

I'm smiling because I started off having like I started off like more where you were being like that really sucks for teeny like it's and I still do feel that but I was like that's such a hard situation and then like the more I thought about it I was like no but there is a workaround like just go to Asia explain all the information like you've already told her about the idol just tell about the vote skill tell her the plan and like try for soul and if not he'll use it all and then I was like more critical because I was like do that that's the plan but now you're like but it's so hard and like I am thinking about coming back to Rome being like oh I hate you

and I've just found three more idols somehow yeah you just you don't want to be on the wrong side of that I think I think it'll be okay I think honestly I think the way that it looks now as long as they make it to merge I think Tini and Kishan have like huge potential to just go really deep I don't think they like you've obviously brought up that like Rome is abrasive and then you are then trying to work in socially I think that it would be quite easy for them to just separate themselves as a duo attached to someone else that you kind of like and just move on from there. It feels like the new era is pretty fluid to be able to do that as long as you have a good social game, which I

think they do. I mean, Sean seems extremely patient. If you can deal with Rome on your beach, you can kind of deal with whatever comes out from from anyone else well are they dealing with it I think that's that's the question at the root of it that we haven't really got to the heart to but I think this shows I think like the the two or like a spectrum of of how we look at it for them which is like yeah you I think and I as well like you can have sympathy for the fact that it's difficult there were possible workarounds as well which I would hope they would do um and you know how much you can criticize that I think really depends like your mileage may vary on how much you're like do the thing to no the thing is so hard this is their first tribal council like are they riding it in the sand and I think yeah

further on like do the thing and you fall further on like room is a headache like take the day off like now you're at home and just keep keep it trucking so yeah I would just keep it chill personally I think it's just I'm gonna go easy on them like if they were maybe returnee players then yeah you should do it if they've been around for way longer or it's a different context I mean they're looking at it it's the first person gone you're already a week in um just take the easy road yeah um I definitely see that I think that um you know it was it was aggressively anti-Sol even in what they did um splitting on Sol and that's how we get this like 3-1- one one one because there's two splits um i think that i didn't really understand hugely either split because they're splitting clearly on soul and clay it's like asia plays her shot in the dark but soul is on the rome part of the split

so his vote would have been negated anyway um and knowing that rome's gonna play it on himself but i guess that that one was okay but it just shows soul so much like not only are we like not with you know we voted out your ally and we split on you like we are a four and even kishan says and the driver council was like we are a four like soul we are done like really putting all their eggs in the rome and genevieve basket which i thought was interesting um yeah and then asia and soul was splitting too which i really didn't understand because that would be again like a three one on a shot in the dark but if genevieve plays and hits a shot in the dark then Rome

is immune but that's how you do it like you really should like if you're going for this call for then you really hammer it in we saw Tiana do that she didn't include Kyle Kyle then votes for Sue and then Sue just doesn't want to borrow him. Like he tries to get back in and you just can't because they're literally the only person on the beach that like has voted for you. Of course, you're not going to work with them. So if you are going to do a four, which in the new era seems like it's one of the strongest things you can possibly do, then having the first vote be something where you just completely get rid of the first person and just socially get rid of the other person like then then you just in the clear like you've got a buffer and unless you're a disaster tribe you've probably gone merch I don't know though because like I feel

like gotta they didn't do that and I praise the fact that they like brought Andy in and didn't split you know on Andy and they could have gone badly but it said they read it well and like had a possible ally and now I feel like Andy does have like channels open that could be bad for some of them but has opened it up with the people who've taken advantage of it um and I feel like you know here the split on Sol was so cautious you know like he's he like he's voting for Rome like so much would have to change from what you think it is and like I know things might change he might put it all on Genevieve but you think he's voting for Rome like so much would have to change from what you think it is and like I know things might change he might put it all on Genevieve but you think he's voting for the person who's immune anyway like so much would have to go wrong for like Asia to hit her shot in the dark and then he's voted for Genevieve and then Genevieve and is that even that bad

for Tini and Kishan but like maybe Rome and Genevieve are really pushing that um but yeah it just felt like okay well like we're really a four now. What did you think about Seoul versus Asia? Like assuming they've chosen Tini, I mean, Tini and Keyshawn have chosen Genevieve and Rome because it's too hard. We've talked about that at length. Then what about like this choice here that they choose Asia over Seoul? Yeah. That pair. Well, it was interesting because you saw them sort of convincing Rome to go one way, but then they went back to Asia in the end um to me

if if you're going to commit to that and you're getting your hands dirty in that way where you just like we're a four there are two you really want the person left that Rome likes the least and I think that is Sol um and you want the person that's was close he seemed to really hate well i don't know like because part of him i think he's just an esports guy so he just talks trash but he seemed to really actually not like sol to me i think he really didn't like asia either i think he really didn't like either of them it was an easy thing to convince him to sol but then i feel like it would have been easy to convince him back to Asia like yeah I don't know I probably just would have gone whichever we'll never know which person or if there was a person that he liked less but I would probably

try and go and keep the one that he likes less because then you just even more you've just created that buffer for yourself it's just a safety vote out. And so I would keep Sol. I think that's fine. I think if you've convinced Rome that he's a threat and he's not to be trusted and he's the next vote, that's fine. Like that's what you want. You want to create a buffer. You want to create further benefit for yourself out of the vote rather than just getting rid of someone and it's not you.

If you can get any value out of it, it's that you're basically just like separating other people in the tribe. Yeah, I guess at the point where like they've chosen that pair. Like they're kind of, you know, cutting it with the other person, assuming like this like very cautious I think unnecessary split on Sol um so you're cutting the other person anyway so they might not be as workable to you anyway so it is more about like Rome's relationship with them but I just felt like Teenie had really invested in Asia and like to lose Asia like let alone to lose that grouping but to lose Asia as an option and maybe you think like you've come to Asia with the Seoul vote she doesn't seem super on board with the she's not on board with the Seoul vote so maybe you feel like that capital will be lost anyway if you go ahead and vote out Seoul um but yeah I would

have just thought that you know I guess like yeah if you're really all in with the four burying this other pair splitting doing everything to just be like we don't know you don't look at us um maybe that's gone anyway but I would still think that you would want asia there's an option you may never go back to tribal as we're saying right 44 chance don't you want to try and rebuild with asia and work through with her especially especially for teeny i'm not super sure about kishan and we did see that he wanted to work with asia but asia also said that he felt less good about her and you know felt like he wouldn't be a priority for her as much as like teeny and soul so maybe it's better for kishan than teeny but i think from the relationship we've seen with teeny it was just like wow you have something like in built here that seems really

kind of important and now it's gone yeah i guess it depends on the context that you play as well like some people want to get rid of people and then other people just want to keep certain people like that's how I play like I'll I'll want to keep certain people and then anyone else on the board like just go for it you can take your pick you can vote out whoever you want as long as I get to keep these people and you're not voting out specifically my people then like go for it there'll be a whole cast of like neutral people that if you want to pick them, pick them. I'm happy for you to have all that power in deciding. So when they go to Aisha and she's really not keen on voting out Sol, maybe that's something that they were looking for.

They were looking for the flexibility to be like, okay, like I'm willing to like listen to what you have to say to do this. I mean, again, you got to be nice to people that haven't ever been to a travel before. Like there is a lot of like mind games and that sort of thing that could go on that you don't have experience with where people like floating names and that sort of thing. Because I mean, it's a very simple strategy as well. If someone feels like they're on the outs um and some people used to do it to me where they're just like oh like what do you think of this name and if you say yes to it they'll just go to that person and don't want you and be like oh yeah this person american listeners won't know dob but yeah yeah they'll go they'll go like they're basically just

like try and trap you in a story of like you agreeing to vote someone out and then go and tell them um so you kind of like you do want to have some sort of concrete system of like honesty um you don't just want to say like yes and it'd be like a different yes to every single person all the time um at least not until the end game where you kind of have to um if you can sort of like stand your ground on some decisions and have it be transparent then it's probably a better thing but it depends on what people value like to teeny they just might have want someone who's just a completely flexible voter they'll just do whatever vote that they get told to stay in the game but teeny might not have explained either like if you came up to me and were like the only way you make it through this vote right now is if this exact thing happens and you vote this exact way then I'll be like okay

yep like do it yeah um vote out whoever um yeah until that's what it is yeah unless I got that I probably would have just stood my ground as well be like no like this is my person I don't want to vote them out yeah I think for Asia I think that's my criticism and maybe it's in TD not communicating that or it probably isn't Asia not understanding where she stood as I said with like you know Andy turning on John um if you're at the bottom like beggars can't be choosers, right? It's like Asia said in her exit press, you know, like Teenie wouldn't turn on Kishan.

It's like Teenie doesn't have to, you know, Teenie has the luxury of being in a better position. But if you're at the very bottom, like if it's you or me, then like you have to do that. You know, that's, and I don't think Asia knew that she was, that it was that dire. So I think like, had she known that it would have been like, oh me or Sol? Yeah. Like if that's the option i don't love it but i like it better than the other

option which is me you stay in yeah this is like one really i don't choose soul yeah like you take the days you take the experience you take like you're still in the game for a million bucks so of course like if you don't like something but you actually understand you're on the bottom i don't think asia understood she was on the bottom exactly that's my biggest criticism how much do you how much criticism do you put on asia versus how much like because people are saying like twist screwed obviously with like you know the extremity of the journey being like i mean i think i think it all kind of works in this episode not that it's so connected but like just having to put your hands in a bag and then being on a tribe of six with two advantages and so some people were looking at it like a

production kind of thing how much do you kind of put it on Asia versus that how much is it somewhere in the middle of that like how do you look at that no I think I I think you can logically talk through all these things and you can communicate what the best choices were and obviously there's a lot of things that we can criticize but then when it comes to the actual people I really don't think you can criticize harshly because it is very early like and I think until you're out there and you play you really can't understand how much just white noise there is all the time and so like we're seeing these critical conversations and we're we're saying like you know like teeny should have explained this better and she should

have um and asia should have picked up on being lower maybe teeny doesn't want you to be fair like you also don't want to go and be like we're choosing you otherwise you know i think softening that language probably felt pretty important to teeny rather than like, exactly. Yeah. And a lot of things, a lot of things you do think that they're bigger when you're playing, you're like, Oh, this was huge. Like this tiny little thing that like to you is like the biggest thing in the world. And no one cares. Like you see that with like juries and stuff as well,

where it's like the person playing and getting to the end is like, Oh, this was like a huge thing in my game. And everyone's like, that wasn't big at all um but yeah the white noise is really the big thing that's really hard to articulate because you got to understand like we're seeing this little thing we're seeing what's important and i think the bigger thing is we just get all the unimportant stuff just ripped out because they're going to have all these other conversations every single name would be floated and i mean we saw it we saw like we saw one of those conversations was like Rome going up to Saul and be like,

Oh, like you should do this. And it's just complete. Like he knows he's lying. Saul knows he's lying. They're still wasting five minutes talking to each other anyway. Imagine that. But then 80 of those, like you had 80 of those across like seven days and like that's the white noise is like you have conversations where like I know you're lying to me like you know you're lying but then you have ones that are like less obvious they're in the middle you have one where you've got a third person it's a really awkward three like imagine a three where it's like Rome,

Tini and Sol and then you have to have a conversation between you three where you're like all right like we're in an alliance all three of you knowing that like that's not the alliance and then one of those people will go away and then the two will be there like no us two are the alliance and then we've got like if it's Rome and Tini still there you're like no it's us and Genevieve and so you just get this like it's just filler there's always this constant filler and white noise and part of becoming better and better is being able to cut those conversations off quickly like you say them but you cut them off quickly you get to the important conversations and you keep sort of pushing through what actually

is the consequential stuff um but yeah, I really don't admonish them for not playing optimally right at the start. I think it's just too hard, like to really, like nailing a 2-2-2 split, like it's the correct thing, but... A 2-2-2 split that changes if a vote steal is played. It's a live split. It's very, very involved. There's too there's

too many too many variables i i don't i don't think we can i would have loved it i would have loved it and it would have been the correct move but i'm not gonna expect it i think that that's what it is when you when you start in these small tribes i mean it's it's hard you know like in bigger tribes obviously you know you're getting to this final six, maybe only at the very end of the game, or if you've gone to several tribal councils, and we talk about Australian survivor and that constricts things, but it does make it very finicky and very difficult. And I think for Asia, I wouldn't say she was too screwed,

but I do think this type of newer game is incredibly constricted. Like again, like not getting on with Rome, that one relationship loss is brutal and you can criticize because he's getting on with everyone kishan has relationships across the board so that is a credit to them over and above what asia was able to do but it's still like that's such a massive massive loss because the options are so tiny um so and teeny they're both um so I think that that is really difficult. I wouldn't say that it's a, it's a kind of twist screw thing, but I would say that like in teeny making, you know,

decisions that I think are difficult and that I also don't agree with, but yeah, like in that really tough spot and with just so few options, I think that's kind of the main thing I attribute for Asia. And then the criticism I put is in not just like the one kind of soul interaction, but the fact that that's born from not knowing her position because if she knows like shit it is like me or soul like that is how much Rome has like gotten through here like that's how much ground he's made up then she plays the whole thing differently like yes that interaction would be differently because her whole mindset would be different and then that would be a truer mindset

to where she was at. Yeah, so I think it's tough. I think it's tough that Rome goes on the journey. She doesn't know what he has. She's not going to like play a shot in the dark. What if he has an extra vote? You know, like, and then that's like the reason, even if they're not like splitting on a 3-1,

that he has a 3-3 with her playing the shot in the dark. So like all of that, I think, makes decision making really hard. I think Rome did well to be like this tidal wave of a human being um that in a small tribe just like devastates everything and makes it very very tough and I think that's kind of what I attribute to it most I really like I can talk about this for ages I think it's been an hour but it doesn't feel like that for me and I really um enjoyed and I kind of want to talk about Rome you know more in this but something I find really interesting is that yes Rome goes on the journey Rome Carl and Annika the three people you could say are like the next kind of targets at least Rome can't go home but like targets in those tribes are the three that end up on the journey and I tweeted saying

I like I feel like majorities need to get this hand. Like how is Kyle on the journey? You know? And I, and I asked the players, I asked, you know, the group chat and Zach and Oma said that, um, like they're not given instruction on like how the person is chosen to on the boat. It's like, chooser goes on the boat. They felt like if someone ran to the boat, they could go. If you wanted to lose that social capital, um, in some talk, maybe it's like, you know, the precedent i guess is in ghost island it was make a unanimous decision and if not draw rocks and we don't know what it is here it's like work

it out amongst yourselves i mean firstly i think the first question i want to ask because again i've been debating this for days with them um and i also find this really enjoyable is how do you think from a from a production standpoint how should the boat be decided what should be the protocol on who gets on the boat if i'm the producer yes if you're a production oh then you definitely want whoever's on the bottom to be on that boat right because although saying that there was punishments there so maybe they were expecting this was a curse this journey especially i mean they had it in i hate this yeah i i did not like that there was auto punishments. Wasn't it like a two of three chance that, like, you get screwed, basically?

Yeah, it was two of three. And, I mean, I think, like, when they did this in 44, it was unprecedented, so I really hated it because I couldn't even really blame the people who went because, like, they never had no opportunity to not reach in the bag like to update they weren't allowed to opt out and they'd always had the opportunity at that point to opt out at least now there's been a tiny precedent in that it happened once in survivor 44 but like yeah i never ever want the players to be you have to

give choice you have to give choice and choice is the most interesting thing in survival we just we just talked about a few choices for an hour like that's the most yeah and we could do it for more let's be here love it i gotta go bungee jumping um but we do choices choice is the most important thing um it's so to take that away i don't like to me i think if you're a producer you want the person who's on the bottom to go on the boat and you want uh the thing to be something that has a lot of choice and a lot of weight to it. So you can balance it any way you want as long as people get the choice or as long as they, I mean, you could just make it where they compete with each other and then you really get people in hot water because people come back net neutral

and usually net neutral is where people have the most trouble explaining things and getting away with it um if i'm a producer yeah you would probably i don't think you can make it so that the person on the bottom is getting on the boat but you would want them to and then you want it to be a game where they all verse each other and only one person wins. Well, they don't really. Because usually it's like after a challenge where the other tribe will choose. And if they have any sense of the dynamics, they're choosing like the Andy, you know, they're choosing the people that seemingly aren't fitting in. So that does behoove the person on the bottom.

If the other tribes can pick up a sense of the dynamics, which, you know, maybe that's on the tribes not to show that but yeah and also that person on the bottom can like make eyes at you so usually the person on the bottom does i think have a bigger chance being like the banu who will go to the the island well they'll push harder for sure um yeah if i'm on the top and i'm a player though i'm just literally trying to rig it so that one of my friends is the one who ends up on the boat um yeah which which would be pretty doable like you could like you could just do the like long straw or something like that and then you just hand rig the sticks they've done that yeah yeah you just rig the sticks and then hand it to like whoever's like your best friend. You just give it one first,

make it be the one that is the longest stick or shortest stick or however. I don't know. I've never done that. I don't think I've ever done. I've never picked a stick. I've never actually picked a stick for anything. Never actually done it. But yeah,

you would just try and rig it. But yeah, a better walk would be them versing each other. I thought the one where was it TK versus Aisha? I thought that one was perfect. Yeah, yeah, that journey, yeah. Like where they go and then they have a competition. The competition is, I mean, quote unquote fair. Like it feels fun.

I felt like every single thing about that challenge was good. I would love to see more things like that where they go for like treasure hunts or they have something that's like fun and competitive I mean that game is good as well where um you actually get to see the island they show off all the nature side of it without it being this forced thing either yeah this was the worst of the journey I think I think people agree like no and is it fun like mike white it's not fun i'm midway through my white lotus so i'm very much on my white like you know is it fun um but yeah no like them just reaching into a bag like it's not without you

know decision making yeah and pull out a punishment that's that is actually yeah quite bad television it's not it's not great to just have like a quick reveal of you have now been punished for coming on this walk. Yeah. Well, I think in terms of the boat, firstly, for me, this was controversial because I did argue about it with Zach and over for two days, but I, um, I think I wanted to be like, work it out amongst yourself. Like if you want to pick sticks, you pick sticks. And I think people do tend towards diplomacy because it is a social game. You know, you don't want to put people off. Like you're very much on the bottom and you are not going.

And then you make it to emerge and they flip on you. So in that social game, I think people are diplomatic. I would say, I think the Ghost Island precedent that again is not certified. They do not tell the players what's going on. But I think people assume if you can't work it out, you are forced to pick rocks rocks I don't like being forced to pick rocks because I feel like that's unagent like I feel like that's random and that's you know taking away from the players yeah I wouldn't let them do that at all because that's like they well they don't have an even chance they have a you know lesser chance by being not in the majority but they have a chance compared to what I think

it should be which is if you can't work it out between you, like it's majority rules, it's a vote. Because then I think that would be interesting because then I think a majority would have to be like, Carl, you're not going. You know, we just left you out of the vote. Don't you know what's going on? And like majority rules, you're not going like, let's put off Carl Moore. Do you want to do that? Do they want to make an interesting decision like that? I think it's interesting. I think it's extreme. I think it would be rarely done, but I think it's a good fallback i think most of the time people will say okay let's be diplomatic let's pick the rocks but i think that to me because again production what we don't know the players don't know what happens if they say we

cannot work this out i don't want to pick rocks you're not going kyle no we are picking in that situation they don't know we don't know so i think it should be a vote if they cannot work it out, if they want to take it to that extreme. What about you make the journey a challenge and you have it be something that's a bit more interesting and different, but anyone that wants to get on the boat can get on the boat. Whoever loads the boat. And it can just be opt-in or opt-out like do you want to say

there's the option of and you could maybe do this earlier like before any idols have been released or anything like that and you release an idol at the same time you could all you could even do the journey be something that's like a red herring and the actual thing is back at camp like that cage thing that they did on one of the actual thing is back at camp like the idol is at camp the journey was as we said mostly bad you know yeah usually like the people on the bottom like there's a lot of space not going on the journey or not being the one to be picked like again you might still be picked you still they still have extreme diplomacy which the majority has been employing within these very vague non-existent rules but like even without that like again you'll

be chosen by the other tribe if it's at that point you have the idol at the camp the journeys are risky at best terrible at worst you know like um yeah we saw as well like asia and tk they're the ones who and i guess obviously other dynamics as well but you're not doing yourself any favors by spending a whole afternoon completely missing from your camp very early in the game so it it almost could be a good thing to just opt in or opt out of the boat because then it's like maybe you get an alliance that goes on the boat. Maybe you get people that specifically want to stay behind, solidify like an idle hunt or anything like that.

It could make for more interesting choices to just have a complete opt in or opt out, especially if you made it a challenge where it's like one person gets it. And then you get all these, all these little variables where like, will someone go on the boat to watch someone else who's on the bottom and then watch what they're actually saying to the other players.

You can get really weird cross interactions. To me, I would be interested in maybe seeing that maybe, maybe when they do like since 50 or something like that, just complete opt-in or opt-out we're all at the island everyone's on the boat capital because we're all here but this this cast actually wouldn't and I think that's what we're seeing like for me I think like production yes production want the target to go on the island for sure and that's why you would think that it's not like a vote like definitely not like starting with the vote or even getting to a possible vote um because that's what they want i mean i don't i

don't ever want it to feel like production are manufacturing something like oh let's do this because then maybe the minority will get the thing i hate that kind of manufactured force part of it i want it to be agent in the player's hands that they make a decision like if they want to pick sticks and let maybe someone like carl or rome go on like let that be their decision which i think it has been to this point i don't think we've seen it play out i don't know but i don't think we've seen a discussion that's like i won't pick sticks like i'm not letting you go like i'd love to see how how that is um handled but yeah i think production want the minority member to go but now we're saying maybe it's better not to go but then then I think I go back again because I'm all the way around 360.

Well, I guess if you're in the minority, you want to go. Like if you're Rome, this was perfect. Rome can't go next. He has an idol. He is the target. He can't afford to lose his voice. And so like he should definitely do that. If you're Kyle, Kyle says that he wouldn't have reached in the back.

Kyle should keep reaching in the back. You know, Kyle's in the bottom. Kyle's been left out of the vote. he of course should go he can lose like the time like he needs an advantage so i think the people on the bottom often need that thing i think production would push for that to be more of an option i don't think i'd push for anything as a production person because i like that sense of agency and fairness but i see why they want it and i see why someone on the bottom would want it and we get like all three next targets going on the boat and I just think that that's like a crazy thing for them to have happened for these like majorities or these power players but then you'd think you would think if they were actually like trying to

push certain agendas that all of a sudden the um walk would have a lot more advantages in it than just like auto everyone minority member like giving you the chance to go on the journey minority member you're welcome to be screwed over it's kind of like let me invite you to my lair yeah it's not i mean look even if they pick sticks like technically the majority should have a better chance of going they have the numbers they have a better chance so maybe they're trying to screw over the majority yeah maybe that's them maybe they're thinking like maybe they do have it locked in but they're like hey if if the majority goes and we think that they will then they get get screwed over. Yeah. But I just, I just want a choice.

Yeah. All I want is choice. I just want more choice. Every single thing should be a choice. And the more variables you can get out of it, the better, just make it, especially because people will make assumptions.

People will change their game plan of nothing. Like if you come back as a neutral um like you have one person screwed one person forced to have a neutral result one person with an advantage the neutral person will come back it still affects the game because everyone assumes things so no matter what just having choices makes things better and better yeah i agree that's like my mike white fun thing like is it a choice um and and I think it's yeah I think it's really interesting I will say that yeah letting Rome Kyle and Annika go is so interesting to me I think I'm really critical of it with Rome I think like maybe that's the thing as well like I know we can't criticize too much but

like with Tini and Kishan who are they have all the power you know and i think what it speaks to is like teeny and kishan i don't definitely teeny i think even said pre-season would not want to go on the journey and i get it i wouldn't want to go on the journey have you seen the journey it sucked a lot but like i think you want to have the usually the option the information like the control of that situation and yes if teeny had gone and lost their vote that would have really sucked too so you can't be results oriented about it but i do think even if not for the power for the information someone's got to protect like kishan or teeny have to be sowing the seeds with all of their allies with rome or whatever to be like i really

want to go next time i really want to go and then everyone will opt into that because they're all aligned with these people like how do you does it get to the point where you're all playing scissors paper rock and then you've all lost scissors paper rock so firstly on the scissors paper rock people criticize secondly I'm like how does Rome of all people go and you're just gonna get better at rock paper scissors well definitely you're gonna be better at it although you can't practice rock paper scissors in the best of one best of three you can try read that and see yeah there's psychology things aren't there but not there are psychology things just luck oh no there probably is psychology around what people do first so definitely look into that before you go on the show isn't it like isn't it like when people lose they they're like extremely likely to change um on the next one

but there probably is as well around what people do first and then countering it yeah but look into that just go rock every time just just go rock every single time nothing beats that um are you as harsh as i am that they let the every person on the bottom go to the journey or you like i don't want the journey so fair uh kyle i i don't understand because he is very clearly the bottom the others i mean for rome for rome i don't really see it being too bad if you're one of the people that's with him and they were kind of just basing it on a system where they thought it was fair so maybe they just but they weren't got to the point like that rock paper scissors though so it was like yeah but it's like i feel like they were with him because

he came back with something and that was so scary that like even teeny said teeny was like now he's got this like you know like i think because that happened they were with him i think had he not gone but maybe if they lost a vote they would have any way of had to kind of steer into that without being able to split it would have been a different way to be in him in like with him it would have been he has something i have less now i need him but then it became he has everything that's also scary but i still think like allowing that to happen when he's already like teetering on the edge of too powerful and it's about to overwhelm the whole tribe like surely you get to a point where where Rome isn't going on the boat what it's just unfortunate is Annika really on the bottom though because it's like well aren't they aren't they hiding that from her and like and I will also say with Rome

it also Rome went to give the information they all did Karl as well you know like could go and give he didn't seem to but I think like also from an information standpoint that's like yeah for annika i think that it's different because i'm not critical of annika going because you can't ever make it seem like she's not with you like if anything you are technically with her um yeah and for someone like sam like you know if she comes back and she has something you have an idol you could also just stay with the four and get rid of andy like that can kind of choose how you're going with it it doesn't need to be nearly as aggressive with Annika and if it is aggressive if anything it will make a definitive line that doesn't need to be there that will make your situation harder so I'm not critical of that like Kyle like Rome

yeah Rome had a lot Kyle was on the bottom had just been left out of the vote like those are the two yeah Kyle is the one yeah Kyle you wouldn't let him go kyle you would just try and make it any sort of like majority rules game where you've got like the odds way stacked against him um even if you're like making it look like it's fair like you do the sticks and and don't completely rig it um you would still try and make it like a majority rules game so he's basically got this like tiny chance of actually going and he's not the sort of guy like why does it why would it be so diplomatic you just left him out of the vote like i believe me i believe me i advocate for diplomacy and a social game and i've spent the first two weeks of the season doing that

but you just have to mouth a vote isn't it like carl are you kidding no not you i don't think you can i don't think anyone wants to be the person that is like really harsh because ultimately people can end up on the jury very easily like again this it just comes down to the context of the new era it is relatively like i'm using easy for lack of a better word but it is quite easy to get onto the merge um in terms of just sheer numbers that that make it onto there it's only a third that sort of gets removed so you really don't want to actually be hyper aggressive or i mean just not not in a genuinely mean way so even I mean it kind of is like we saw that there was like a flash forward I think to next week um and it's just like Rome obviously watching Sol who is trying to probably look for idols that's what's like implied and so that sort of thing

is one of those things in survival where it's like yes it's fair like they're allowed to just follow you and like you could be seen to do that cheerfully or it could actually be extremely jarring and malicious and just really not nice like things like that where you really take someone who's on the bottom and you just take away their agency in that kind of way it can be very mean um yes and some some people will take it that way as well and so for kyle if you've got someone and it's like maybe they don't go back to travel and then he ends up on the if you've got someone and it's like maybe they don't go back to a travel and then he ends up on the jury you've got someone who's like hates immediately flipping on you and never voting for you but this is why i think it can tend towards majority rules this is this is my point this was what i was arguing with omer and zach is that that's why i think that if you can't work it

out it can tend towards if you really are putting a foot in the sand to be like no majority rules and that's like the final line of like defense of how this has worked out like i think that people will rarely do it for the reason of it's very rude and like so i think that like it's interesting because it will rarely happen and like yeah and if it does happen we'll talk about it because it'll be an interesting social choice yeah well then i mean if you really want to do it that way and you're smart and quick enough then you just go all right like everyone let's vote for someone you can't vote for yourself vote for someone you think should go on the journey you could do that obviously obviously if you've got four to one everyone's just gonna vote for someone in the majority instead of kyle

and kyle can't vote for himself but even that is an interesting choice because even that is then that person now becomes a big threat you know then then like when you get to emerge it's like they all voted for this person you know like that if this person's running that's the same you know that then then you can do some great things with that because if you like I don't know if you like get onto that quick enough and you're the one who starts the narrative then you can be the great things with that because if you like, I don't know, if you like get onto that quick enough and you're the one who starts the narrative, then you can be the first person that votes as well. And then you're like, I vote for this person.

And then you don't see this so much in Survivor because it's not voting in front of each other. But what can happen a lot in the challenge is one person will vote for one person. And because it's in front of everyone, that person's already voted for everyone just gangs on like and it could be the same for a positive way as well like if if you're just like oh okay like sue I want sue to go then the next person could just be like okay

like I'll vote suit as well and you can just get that in a positive way but basically if you made it so you can't vote for yourself Kyle can't even force a stalemate with a vote. Yes. I also think that why that's interesting is because there are drawbacks to even voting positively for someone. There's definitely drawbacks to voting negatively for someone, not that this, you know, we're voting like against what they want. So that's why a lot of the time people will be very, all the time, mostly, I think almost every time people will be very diplomatic.

They'll draw sticks sticks they'll do scissors paper rock and that then negates the drawbacks of well teeny's running the tribe look how everyone wants teeny to go but then you have Rome going then you have Kyle going so it's like leaving it to that chance which I think most this is why I think that we haven't got to the point where it's like no I refuse and then how are we kind of breaking this tie that you know or this stalemate that production hasn't necessarily accounted for we don't need to because most of the time people will be very diplomatic so that they don't put people off so that they don't put themselves out in front

and now they're playing scissors paper rock and now rome is on the boat and i find that really really interesting because i think that yeah in this instance truly every next target was there on the boat and maybe I'm being too harsh to be like, how did you let that happen? But I do think especially for like Tini and Kishan, you can just start it early, like days before, like I really, really want to go on the boat, you know?

And you're aligned with everyone. So no one's going to feel bad about that. No one's going to be like, yeah, I like it. You arrive on the beach immediately and like, oh man, I really had fun on that boat ride we just took. I love the boat i would really i would really love to get back on that person it's not even about the journey i'm just bored here um and like even but even that has things like oh so you really want the advantage you know and i think people don't want to go on the journey it's so interesting because there are so many drawbacks but yeah so that people are just like

not me actually you guys all choose and now or we leave it to chance or let's not put any kind of social stock or tell or read into how this is decided and now like the person on the bottom is there I just find it interesting now he's talking about this for 20 minutes but I can't do it all day Harry I find this so interesting and enjoyable it's like it's so hard this is it's so difficult I do I have sympathy and enjoyable. It's like, it's so hard. This is, it's so difficult. I do. I have sympathy for the players. It's really tough. I come in like, how could you let that happen? And then I spent 20 minutes being like, that's how, that's really hard. There's no real answer to that. That's tough.

No, I think just in the moment, like it's, it's still fine. And I think especially looking at people that have won in the new era, like you kind of want power, but you don't want to push too hard for it because as soon as people push too hard for it, like those seem to be the people that really get knocked out is like people that are at the forefront too early. Like even when they're not that good, like they're not even that powerful. They just like have the perception of being powerful

um and up there um so yeah I don't think that you can really criticize too much I think it's fine um Kyle is silly but everyone else is fine yeah I feel like I'm trying to criticize but then I'm like it has to be a way so that it's not Rome going. There has to be a way that the person who clearly has an idol isn't going to amass more power. Maybe you're sending them to their doom on a journey no one wants. But I still think just from an information standpoint, just with the fact that he can go and bitch about Asian soul, which he does, it's just not a good situation.

There has to be. There is a way to be like, yeah, what about Kishan? We all like Kishan. Great. You know? Yeah. to be there is there's a way to be like yeah what about kishan we all like kishan great you know like yeah i think i think the vote is the way like that you can start to manipulate things you can just say like let's do it down to a vote and vote for someone else and then you really can just sort of like manipulate the situation yeah um i i think yeah i still think it shows a hand but I think that that is better than this in this as you said it's all in context and I think that in this context I think that makes more sense in terms of like just you know more on the journey for what like Kyle Kyle comes back

and tells them that he has um lost his word I'd love to talk about Kyle and Gabe and kind of in this and the journey so what did you think about what Carl was doing in this episode, which included, you know, telling that he'd lost his vote and he's obviously trying to, you know, Gabe approaches him and then he kind of goes back to them and throws Gabe under the bus. Like, how do you feel about how Carl's trying to recover from the TK blindside? I mean, you really don't have a lot to go off.

Like, if you're Carl, it just sucks. And I actually really like him i think he seems like a really old school player and and a social player but he just really attached himself to the wrong side of the tribe um i don't know whether that was just like the boys club where that was the thing where like they he seemed to really vibe with tk seemed to vibe with gabe but then it just was like the complete wrong way to go about it to just like not really push with the other people um and look it's pretty bad like he lost his vote like you really don't have a lot to go off there and so really what do you have than to throw someone under the bus and And it's what we were talking about before.

You go and like you really like look at someone who agrees to vote someone out and then you just immediately take it to someone else. And when there is that much like filler conversations, you can kind of do that with almost anyone, but he was going to try it. But really if you have no vote, then that immediately makes it like less appealing.

Like I wouldn't want to support someone who has no vote. Like they're not going to be able to help you with the plan. Like you're really going with their plan, even though they have no agency in it. And then Sue and Caroline are obviously not going to do it because they're absolutely tight and he voted for Sue. So you're really going to struggle to actually get any numbers without a vote.

What are they? They've got five people, four people are voting, and two of them don't like you. So, like, you're pretty screwed. Well, yeah. I mean, I feel like you're like, it's too hard to criticise, but I'm going to criticise, like, pretty much everyone we saw anything from on Tuku this week.

I mean, for Kyle, I think like he didn't even want to put his hand in the bag. He says he wouldn't have done it, but he was forced to. If I was Kyle, I'd go on the journey. I'd put my hand in the bag as many times as I want. Like I need an advantage. You have to. So like, yeah, that's security. You have to.

Yeah. But he wouldn't have had, and he actually didn't. He didn't do it for the next one. He should have put his hand in the bag again. He should have, yeah. Once you lose, like, what are you going to do? Like, go back to camp and try and convince people to go to rocks for you. Like, there's no chance.

So it's like, you might as well just keep drawing. Like, his vote, especially for the next one, I mean, he's already lost that one, so maybe he's thinking through to, like, you know, emerge or beyond this vote, but, like he doesn't have the the luxury of doing that like for this vote his vote does not matter like he either they're either voting tiana out which is like what gabe comes to him with or not and in which case the power three will make that decision with or without your vote or maybe what he's trying to do is like pull over you know with him and tiana, Caroline and Sue,

in which case the three of them can make that decision again without him. So I think that like not having a vote didn't matter. I even think telling them that he didn't have a vote for like the kind of Carl, I was just saying like old school, good old boy mentality, actually kind of worked the way he was trying to be and was fine. I just think he should have been harder about like wanting the advantage. And I think he should have put his hand in the bag he needs to just push the idea that he's like um just useless basically like he's not a threat like you just like that's the only angle you

really have left like you can't make people go to rocks for you you don't have a vote so you can't push any kind of flip um which you would have if you had a vote because you'd only need two people um so no rocks no vote you can't flip you need an advantage or you need to basically say i'm absolutely no threat even as early as we are you could probably just pull me another like five votes and yes I might not even have any agency then like there's just like no threat whatsoever yeah I don't think his vote matters because I think with Carl it's like either they want to keep him because he's like a stable helpful provider and challenge asset who they like as Gabe said he feels like is malleable or not

you know it's not really about like as much as what he like and that's from either side you know if they want to if eventually Gabe feels too erratic and they want to keep him over Gabe or if they feel like he's more useful than Tiana like they'll make that decision with or without him and I think it's more just like how he's appealing to them socially but yeah I felt going back to Sue and Caroline was wrong um I feel like like as I've said like if you just have Tiana in front of you like you probably will make the merge like you might again never even go back to tribal council and if you do just that one is how you probably make the merge and then you have new life and you'll probably find new friends in this game so I thought I thought that was wrong that's my criticism of Kyle um my criticism of Gabe this is just then and then like yeah so my criticism of Gabe is that he even came to Kyle

with that in that way I feel like he misread Carl by being like, he'd be really loyal to me because he's really loyal, misreading that loyalty to Tiana, who Carl is overly loyal to despite the fact that she just left him out of a vote. Again, you can criticize that while still criticizing Gabe for not reading that kind of wrong loyalty. I don't get why Gabe even wants that. Why does Gabe want everyone? you don't need everyone like

you can be nice to everyone like that's the other thing as well like you don't have to say a name if they ever ask you if you think you've got a name you say oh I haven't really decided yet just don't give them any name at all like be be like, we're not going to tribal and I want to keep things positive. So let's not talk names. Let's not talk about kicking people out because that's the wrong attitude to have. And you can really just frame it like that. Like we want a positive attitude.

We want everyone here. Let's not talk names. And there's no way that they can like hate on you for that. And you've also not given them any ammunition to actually go and like tell anyone so like to Gabe that's the thing I'd criticize Gabe you've got the power position just keep everyone where they are like you keep everyone on the same strategic level you but then you just be nice to everyone you've got that thing like you've got the power so now's the time where like let's just say just in case you actually do make it to merge you've been nice to them for like

a week like you haven't threatened them with anything you haven't followed them you you've let them go on the journey like like to you they're just like a friend that's there and that's what we ended up doing we had this weird thing in champions versus contenders where it was like we didn't go to tribal like we went to travel like once and then we had this like whole cold war where like they were maybe going to get rid of me and they were maybe going to get rid of like we're maybe going to get rid of bayton and you just don't actually do it and because you're not going yeah you have all these strategy chats and that sort of thing, but you're still being friendly to everyone. Like even though we were maybe planning on voting at Bain left,

like we still have like friendships that you're building and like real friendships, like you buy the fire, you say real stories, you tell things about yourself. So I think that's, that's what I would definitely like, if we can criticize anything, like I've been very nice to people today, but if I'm going to criticize anything, I really think it's a bad move by Gabe to even bring up a name just don't say a name just have it like you've got the power once you've got the power just keep it like keep everyone in the exact spot that they're in I completely agree I feel like he

gave Carl that ammo on a misread and it I think it speaks to the issues I've had with Gabe last week where I felt like, I don't like how he talks about Sue and Caroline. Like, and clearly we didn't really see it, but clearly he gave that to Kyle, who then brings it back to Sue and Caroline in a way that was really clear. It's like, he thinks you're goats and he does. So like Kyle's not making that up. Like Kyle has got that from Gabe.

The way that Gabe looks at his allies, not like friends, but like horns and has made that expressly clear to again an enemy that he's not reading correctly I think is very negative and I think but you know he's doing but he's doing it as well like yeah the funny thing though is that it's an overplay by Gabe but he will luck out from it because to Sue it's going to feel like an overplay from Kyle like because everyone on this tribe but it's funny because sometimes you just get lucky and like it's going to feel weird to Sue's will still be like all right so the guy who just voted for me is now telling me that one of my tightest allies who is willing to show me an idol

is calling me a goat. And especially for Sue, like Sue is a very strong personality, very strong person. She's probably going to go far, but she would be the sort of person to have the overconfidence in her own reads and that sort of thing so it's just funny that it has combined to basically screw everyone's making the wrong decisions in a way that is like even more yeah i think well i think that but i do think with gabe it will screw him up in this mentality even though it didn't go badly now will be his undoing that's my prediction

because i think that you can even see the fact that he goes to carl and not just offers a name he does it so unilaterally he doesn't bring in his allies um it's so individual because he doesn't see them as like equal partners and i think that that underestimation and that sense of individuality and like this team game for a while at least i think will be his undoing and i think the way that it's so clear even to carl whatever he said that it's clear that they go to him like that perception i think that wrong perception will and the way that he's approaching that game so individually will be wrong but then for sue like if sue was aware is aware of that and knows he feels that way and is managing it i think it's fine you know like that could be a sandra style

like i don't know about that like yeah sure i'm your goat and i don't see why and is managing it, I think it's fine. You know, like that could be a Sandra style, like, I don't know about that. Like, yeah, sure, I'm your goat. And I don't see why Sue is Gabe's goat. And I think she could ride that to the end and possibly win, even though it's a tough demographic. But I think that my criticism of Sue is in that, you know, she's allowed to be like, okay, well, Carl is desperate and Gabe has worked with me and try and pass that out.

And I think all of that is fair and true. But to me, it's the emotionality of like, Carl voted for me and it's done. Like, it's the cutting off the options it's like the emotion without looking at it with logic so that to me is like the criticism yeah when when it's so tight numbers you really can't say no to anything you have to be open to everything like obviously emotions do come into play and it's like I mean I'm guilty of that as well like where you just let emotions kind of take control of your decision making um but you really have to try not to especially early game where it's like you want to be open to these things I think it's fine though like I think they've got

their alliance locked in and I think it is just about an awareness I think as well like if Gabe talks about them like that to anyone else where there isn't that direct conflict where it just feels like yeah like you can't trust carl because obviously he's on the bottom and he's going to say anything now um as soon as anyone else backs up that story then gabe is screwed and they will because it must be that clear but like yeah carl should 100 like it's all the criticism like carl should know that he doesn't have the social capital with someone like sue who will take it to heart when you vote for her like he should know that he can't kind of pull off a big swing and should just take the olive branch of not being next and then make it to his merge as you said you and baden could have been the targets and you're the last two contenders left so that's you don't want to yeah you don't want

to like fire that gun because you might need the person later yeah exactly i think that that i don't want to yeah you don't want to like fire that gun because you might need the person later yeah exactly i think that that i don't think i don't think gabe should have done it but in making that wrong decision i think kyle should have taken it and in making that wrong decision of not taking it to sue i think sue shouldn't have just distrusted him and that is where i think that the yeah everyone was basically wrong yeah and kyle kyle it's funny because like you know it's the truth but people don't trust the truth sometimes sometimes you need to have something else just because from the context that they're coming from like they're just not going to believe something even if it's true like there's some things where it's like maybe there's an advantage or something insane that happens

where there's just no precedent for it so people just don't believe it and the same is true for some social circumstances like someone will betray someone or they'll be plotting to betray someone and you just can't believe it because you're like well it just makes no sense to you and so I think Kyle probably needed to come with a more gentle approach yeah and you could just be like more like Gabe has this perception of you um Gabe is going to do this in the future if you bring me I'm not going to do that like I'm going to come at it from this angle can we work something out yeah everyone I think needed to be a lot calmer as you're saying Gabe I think Gabe can do it with his allies and not give a name just be a friend i think kyle can not necessarily go back and immediately use that information like cut off

that option i think sue was too harsh i think it's just it's too it was too too many lines like way too many lines in toku um yeah so that and then for for gotta if we could talk about them slightly um how did you feel about kind of anika on the journey um she doesn't take she doesn't make the decision to take the next advantage yeah and then yeah she comes back and she tells angie that she did nothing and then she tells i assumed sam as well we feel telling the girl she was very well she feels very good about the girls i assume she told all her allies including sam and i think it would be a big misread not to tell sam because sierra will tell him so i assume she told all her allies what actually happened yeah um i feel like

everyone actually apart from a few blemishes everyone actually is playing a really decent game in terms of lying to each other making alliances making sort of secret things happen there's a lot of in between sort of movements um obviously you've got some obvious stuff um who is it sierra and sam are the two that are just like very obviously together um but i think apart from that everyone is doing quite well just kind of playing with each other and it's like a will they won't they sort of thing. Even with Andy as well as like managed to work his way back in. And sometimes, again, you get lucky.

People just don't like each other. And so it's actually very good to see him actually pulling back because he had a very bad time, like just really just putting himself out there and showing himself to be very awkward. I would not like anyone throwing out concepts or stories or anything like that on a mat in front of other tribes. I just would not want to play with them at all. Like I would much rather a smarter player than someone who's going to just absolutely be a train wreck. But he's back in it.

I think for Annika, I think it's just one of those things. Like sometimes you just don't get along with people. But again, it just goes back to showing people's depth. Annika has been smart and she knows things. She's obviously studied going before there, but she also doesn't understand how she's coming across to some of the people like as being maybe too smart and also too much of a leader especially to sam um and they just have like hilarious interactions and it's so funny because i am handy in that. But I would push them more.

I would bring them together in certain circumstances. I would, as often as possible, see if they'll work together on anything in camp possible. I'll bring each other's names up to each of them. That's what I used to do with Zach and Jackie. I would just bring up their names all the time to each other. And you point things out and you like show them what each other's doing you're like hey like look at this and it just drives them apart so he was just having a good time enjoying them and you see that whole hilarious

thing where sam's like going like this and it is funny because annika was right but then about this was my idea yeah like and she was right about a lot of things but I don't think she's going about it the right way um in arguing and neither Sam they're both wrong um but yeah her going on the journey if I was her I just would have gone and not put my hand in but that wasn't a choice so yeah I think to only accept the one minor punishment with her thinking the way she's thinking of it being like a four verse one I would just take the no vote well that's what I think the crux of it is as you said like she's often right but the issue is she's not understanding that her I think the perception of her and also her place in the game yeah so like yeah she might be right about the

clothesline I think probably the bed is subjective but it's about taking that conflict too far and while like sam is a part of that sam has an out like sam has andy what is arnica's out that's her ally or she thinks her out of sierra which is wrong so i think that's the criticism of like not knowing her place and like that extends to the journey to the point where she goes on in her mind she's in a four against andy so it makes all the sense in the world to just like leave it here I had to lose my vote you'll vote out Andy I have it back next time and we'll move forward if it gets to a 2-2 I definitely have my vote I definitely can't lose it for if we're getting to the 2-2 or if we're going to move through to a merge um you know I'll be with my four she comes back she tells I assume all her allies because that's where she

thinks the game sits and where she actually sits she probably actually could have used putting her hand in again you know she probably could use the advantage but she doesn't know that she's not in a good spot she could be she probably is the next target for someone like Sam who has an idol and the ally in Andy so I think she's behind the eight ball in that you know for where she sits she could come back and tell Sam and Sierra yeah I've got something bluff something you know roam them now I'm using it as a verb but yeah like make them so scared that maybe you can't go against her we can't split the vote does she have an idol who's she gonna play it on does she have a one tribal idol that she could play on her or Rachel like maybe now I've been do you really do you really want to strong-arm people though but is it strong-arming just to bluff like but the thing is if she I think if she knew where

she sits and we don't really know where she sits because it could be I think you know again it's all Schrodinger's allies in terms of where will Sam go but if she knew that Sam's really working with Andy and that Andy's making these connections and she could be the next target then it's dire enough to want the thing to bust the thing if that's not the case then no and where she thinks she is definitely not but i i just wish for her she knew more that there is trouble in paradise and if she knew that she might have a different approach and she certainly probably wouldn't fight with pam as much at least i definitely think for the most part they're all playing very well and i think that they're hiding from each other.

And I think Annika is just in the unfortunate position where she is coming out on the bottom and she doesn't know it because everyone's playing quite well, just bluffing each other. It's basically the opposite of the situation at Tuku where it's like you do not have very obvious things and maybe they haven't even decided themselves which way they want to go. Yeah.

Sierra definitely seemed like she was really undecided. Sam was like suggesting maybe even playing an idol on Andy. And she did not seem pleased with that. Or maybe she was just surprised. I don't know. I do think Sam wears the pants that are too heavy on the clothesline. Like I think that she will go with him really and I think

that maybe that's what Annika's missing I think she thinks it's the three girls and that Sierra would be loyal there and I think Sierra's loyalty is to Sam yeah it is really hard to tell yeah that one is hard because they aren't being forceful with it which in many ways is good but I just wish that Annika kind of

knew that it was even an option that it might be and I don't think she has any sense of that and I think that that is a concern a lot of danger there yeah but yeah I think she had the right call for the information she has she's just unfortunate that she's actually playing with the good players on this season that are actually like hiding everything and not keeping everything like blatantly out in the open I do think that like if I had to put my money on a tribe for someone winning I do gotta like I think that Rachel's an option I think like Annika you know what with the mistakes like she could win I think Sam obviously is probably like the leader in the clubhouse from like an edgy perspective like Sue could be as well but I think yeah I think that Tuku have their issues I now think that Lavo have their issues and I think that while God I also have

their issues and it's still not a tribe name I can say definitely better at hiding yeah I think that they've got a little bit more leg room yeah just as a survival thing as well I find it really interesting like Anangas and other people obviously do a lot of YouTube a lot of googling practice themselves. Like, they've shown people in the new era really being onto it. I don't get why people are still sleeping on bamboo. And not only that, haven't learnt how to, I mean, you've, in reality, you've actually got two choices.

There is no point sleeping on fully curved bamboo. There's just no point. Like, it is so horrible. What do you mean sleeping on? Either the dirt, and I know that doesn't sound great but it's like it sounds better than bamboo it really does it's way softer and if you sleep on the dirt by the fire then you've got like a nice warmth the whole time um and you also get reminded it's like it literally is like an alarm clock because as soon as the fire gets too small then you get cold and you wake up and then you put more wood on the fire. And it's just like, it's literally like, like nature's alarm clock.

And so I would just do that. Like I just sleep in the dirt. I've slept on bamboo maybe the first like week or something that I first played. And I was just like this is stupid this is terrible um but if you are comfortable yeah no it's not it's really like anti-comfortable it seems like the exact thing you don't want to sleep on actively making round hard curves of pain well if if you aren't going to sleep on it you're meant to like cut it into very like long strips so and basically the less you can make it curvy, the more flat you can get it, the better it's going to be.

So like actual bamboo beds, like they've just turned it into like very fine strips. And with the machete that you've got, you probably are not going to get through all that, but you could give it a crash. Like you just sort of like quarter it and then you make that smaller. And you just like progressively over time, you can like cut a few every day and just like get it slowly to like

go down into flat um but I would just sleep in the dirt I mean it's just it's just way easier I would rather have a fire like and not even bother with a shelter you just like slowly make the shelter in case it rains like if it it rains, you're screwed anyway. Like you're never getting it fully waterproof. So like I just wouldn't even bother with the bed and the shelter. Because you were wrong on that. Oh, yeah. That was like the one thing she was wrong on. She seemed very smart on a lot of other things.

They're like talking. I think that they talked about. Talk about sleep, Stephen. I'm loving it. I feel like it's weird that people are talking about sleep so much. It is a funny thing in the game. Like you just really don't get that much sleep. I slept really well on survivor. He's like, I slept better than here.

Good for your back sleeping in the dirt. He said really well, this is exhausting maybe maybe they had the hammocks or something no i don't think i slept that much maybe a few hours a night for the most part maybe a bit more in all stars but that's a whole nother story all right well we've been criticizing people the whole time i have been you haven't been i found this you have i hate to paint this really nice harry you have i hate to paint us both don't don't take that out of context i'm gonna let's do the chizzy i have more criticisms in the chizzy but we will now reward people with points take it away jacob

sega wine scene and mc color two three one one one two one one two three let's get it let's get it let's get the kind of chizzy three two one one oh i almost got that perfect um do you want to go first uh look I'm undecided at this point everyone is very like in the middle and then we've obviously been talking about like the pros and cons because it's like Rome has done a lot has a lot of of power, but it's like what's more important? Because I'm only on for one week. Should I just be basing my cheesy votes on the here and the now, or am I supposed to be doing it on the moves that will benefit people's overall game?

Because I don't think that Rome's making moves towards winning. I think he's just collecting a lot of power that's probably going to dissipate mid-merge i mean it is meant to be episodic but if you don't think that it's it's if it's episodic but in a way that's not going to in a way improve his odds enough that it's impactful then i don't think you can even credit the episode so i i don't know like it has to be who's doing well if you and if you for you if it's is doing well in a very like significant way for the medium to long term like that might be episodic for you you know what I'm doing doesn't make any sense what I'm trying to you know like that might be what doing well this week meant for you yeah you go first but i think

i've got i think i've got my votes all right i i found it really tough i'm gonna give three points to rome as i said um big pros and cons i think using the advantages to gain allies has been very good you know he comes back from the journey he tells them about it it works you know through some sort of combination of fear, intimidation and loyalty, which he does say like, you know, if we, if we're giving them all the power, we think we can control them. I don't know that they can, but they think they can. And he's given that trust in a way that has won them over and also

overwhelmed them. And I have to credit that, you know, he, he's always doing the most and it's working for now i don't think it's a game that can win but if he can play any type of winning game it's this it's doing the most for the like just running the fastest for 26 days if it exists it's this and so i have to credit that when it's at its best and i think it worked really well here and that he has the power um yeah good to go on the track to push for that um You know, to take that risk. I will, I have to say, you know, as I said, the social game is not good. The self-awareness, when he calls TK arrogant, very concerning.

The fact that he thinks he's lying well about losing the vote and no one believes him, very bad. He doesn't realize everyone can tell he's found the idol. Not good either. I've just got a list here. Later he's trying to sell that the idol is from the journey they all know it's not um in the conversation with soul even when when soul's like but wouldn't you be trying to bluff me and he's like no and then he comes back to them and he's like that went very well so concerning um yeah we're putting off people with the fish um so many things so many things are all there's a lot to criticize and a lot to praise and he's still gonna get three points um

yeah and i think as well it's like i another thing i will credit is that he could have assured this by playing both of the trinkets by playing the vote steal to make sure they can't split, by playing the idol. Because at that point, I think even Tini's plan in my mind, even the one I came up with, would be done. But I think he needs the vote steal. He gets it done without the vote steal. And I want to credit that he reads that he doesn't need the vote steal,

but I can never credit his read. So what I will credit is the bravery, the faith, and just barreling through with some amount of risk and all of the intensity to have, I think a huge amount of power right now. And I think he's the most powerful person in the tribe now. And I think he got that done this week. So I'm giving him three points despite many, many, many issues. That's three points. Two points. I didn't know either. I'm going to give it to Genevieve, who is someone fittingly, I think we've barely spoken about in this podcast, even though she's a big part of this, but we're not seeing it. And I was talking about this with Omar and Zach, and they thought, do they really want to work with Genevieve over Seoul or Asia? If so, I think that's crazy.

If that was what contributed to Tini and Khawn's thinking about what they wanted to do, I hugely disagree because I think that Rome, Genevieve and the advantage that they've left with them are way too powerful. And I think that you'd want to work with Asia and Sol anyway. But even without that, I think even if you slightly want to work with Genevieve more, that duo was an advantage and the capacity to find more is way too dangerous so if that was any part of it I hugely disagree I have to credit Genevieve just in case it was you know like just you know we did see a bit of a connection with Teenie in week one and um there has to be some workability there like they are making this choice on workability and I don't think it's really with Rome so maybe Genevieve is like the Trish to his Tony um and I'm having to surmise a lot because she is very purple if it was social and they chose Genevieve then she is being done so dirty in the edit and she is like a social queen and even so I wish we got more from her to kind of understand this but choosing Genevieve and the power she now has with Rome and the win that they've got together and any contribution that she had socially towards that I'm going to give two points to even though I'm having to surmise a lot of it and then I'm going

to give a point to Andy um you know it felt felt like kind of a cute, like one point thing, giving over shot in the dark to Sierra, I thought was great. It worked for Sierra. Rob was talking about this a bit in know-it-alls about like, you might give it to someone. Like if you were to give it to a gay, gay would be like, and now I voted you out because I want you shot in the dark. But I think that giving it to Sierra, we see that it works,

that it's making that social connection. And it's with a group that that didn't split on john so a group that's not so worried about like shot in the dark that you could be because you could go the anti-social way like i might use my shot in the dark and then are you going to split on me or you can't split on me like now am i like are you scared of me and they like he could have done that but i think this group isn't as scared of Shot in the Dark and will kind of, you know, go through that and take that small risk.

So without wanting to bluff it and that being very antisocial, he chooses, I think, the much better social path. It was so interesting to see that it really worked as well. And, like, you see, like, the different confessionals and Sierras, likeras like oh i don't really trust him like which is fair enough yeah um but then that he just went above and beyond to really push it and like it really did actually lock it in um and i think sometimes you just have to do that um it is a really cool thing that you can use as a tool to be like, look, like I'm not going to play my shot in the dark.

Like just to give someone confidence, like, because it's something like, if you can like demonstrate something, it's so much better than words. So for him to do that, I thought was actually really good. And like, if he's just going to play a shot in the dark, like then they'll just vote for him and then he'll be immune and he won't have voted so they'll go back to a revote and that'll suck for the four but I think that they would take that risk so he's still going to get the votes and like 84% chance like he will go home so instead of that he's you know up those odds by making like a really clear connection and not relying on the tiny chance and

using it socially in its novel and I know Emily did it and people have kind of like been interesting with the show in the dark before but I'd like that he went out of his way and did it with the right person with Sierra um so I'm giving him a point and and I'm interested to hear your point because I feel like these are all very episodic like do I think that Andy's doing the best in gotta to get a point the one got a point no but I think this episode we saw like with the observational skills and how he was kind of using that um I thought was good. He's obviously getting to narrate it. I think he's building back. So it's like one episodic point.

Rome is very, you know, episodic. I don't know that it's a long-term game, but it's working now. Genevieve's part of that. So mine are very episodic. So I'm interested to see where you go with the jizzy. All right. Yeah, that's where I went. Here's my votes.

And unfortunately, I haven't put Genevieve on here even though she's doing very well because I didn't see anything it's just one of those unfortunate things um so gonna say teeny three chizzies and you might not like that well I'm surprised I mean I think I'm only halfway through noodles but Stephen was gonna going to give Tini the fishy. And that really surprised me, too. I like the play. I think just and some of it as well as just the episode, like you get to see the full thought process. She was testing people. She was checking for ramifications. She was checking how people would react to things. She was really gauging how people interact with her how she can work with them she's trying

to gain as much knowledge out of one single thing as possible um so i like that um i think that to me looking at all the numbers it looks like the boring safe play but evaluating every single thing i would probably go that way um we, you can evaluate doing the live 2-2-2 and then changing on that. It's fine. Don't worry. Taking all the power for yourself. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I want that. Like, yeah, it's a good resume buffer, but I probably would rather take a strong four with a lightning rod.

I like the idea of a lightning rod in a very fast 18 person season. Again, it depends on the context. If I'm in an Australian survivor season, maybe not, maybe just seize power. And not pissing off rope I think is a big thing as well. Yeah. And to me, like he's the one that will take everything personally and just go crazy.

And he's also the person where you can just blindside him, merge and find some other connections. So I don't mind that from 10 year old. I think there was the whole process of doing things properly, checking for how things would kind of play out and then making a decision. It was a decisive decision and you've got a buffer and you've got a lightning rod to be a shield for at least a little while, maybe not very long, but I like that play.

Rome has to get two votes, even though a lot of praise, a lot of, a lot of things you could criticize. He's playing aggressively. He's playing hard, but you can never ever say that he's not giving it everything, which I like, like he's trying to be a part of every single thing he's backing it up with good performances like he is doing well in everything that he actually does except for you could say social game but maybe it's just not in

him to take a backward step like it's just who he is as a person so have to give him two votes he's playing the way he plays which might not get him the win but it's working for him and he'd have to strong arm the entire game from start to finish we've seen that it's happened before i don't think he can but we've seen it happen um one vote i wasn't sure um Can I ask a question before I do it? Garda doing their puzzle, was it just me or did Rachel just, like, dominate it? Yes. I mean, they didn't start it first.

And then they basically caught up to first. They won, and then they won. Yeah. So, all right, I'm giving it to Rachel there at one point because those puzzles in reality are nightmares like they are not they're not good it's like you've got this challenge it's like yeah you've got the like the start bit it still just comes down to the puzzle that puzzle is rough and like a seahorse like it's something that they probably haven't ever seen before. You've got patterns,

but then it looks like it's the same color scheme going the whole way up. You don't know the shape of it necessarily. You don't know exactly what it is starting. It's not like it's an obvious one where it's like, oh, like you just look at the flag and it's the same symbol. Like it was a seahorse and you have to build it from the start up. Like you can't even do other things. So I'm giving a point to shout out to some actual challenge prowess that, yeah, I feel like on top of that, like she's in an actual good place in Qatar. Like we haven't seen a lot, but it's the sort of thing where she's in a duo, but and they might be on the bottom as a duo but she's not the one that's like actively

being worked against um and she doesn't seem to have a bad relationship with anyone either she seems to be making reasonable connections with people um never sort of like heard a sort of bad step from her so she didn't have one point as well i like that i mean i think that matt said last week you know rachel's is win a pick and like you're seeing that in her as well and i think it's hard because this is her first point on the chizzy board but she has been doing well it's just like the dynamics have kind of been elsewhere and we've kind of been looking more like what Sam is doing we kind of had this stuff with her and Andy in the first episode so we've seen like kind of like small and negative things but like generally I think she is doing

well and like again like yeah making up the space and the challenges when they voted out John from a challenge perspective and have not lost since, even though Andy, to be fair, they kept Andy from a challenge perspective and he did kind of screw things up, but like they have as a tribe been able to kind of make that up and they've made good on not being the disaster tribe that I thought they might be in keeping Andy. So we'll kind of see where, where it goes from that. So the points are Teenies and Sue are both tying on nine. Rome and Sam are then on five. then we've got jen on two we've got andy on two well we've got rachel and one and asia left on one and i think that's correct do you have a winner

pick by the way do you have someone you think is gonna win oh um i mean with i mean I've been wrong with Edgic. I don't read Edgic that well anymore. But going off it, I'm going to say Sue. I'm going to say Sue. I feel like... Do you think Sue will actually win? Or is that just Ed? I feel like she's got strong enough convictions that she'll make a good talker at any given tribal. I think her negatives are actually going to work positively for her. I don't think she really has it in her to really threaten people in terms of like idols

and that sort of thing. But I think that'll just become a pro. Like I like idols and that sort of thing but I think that would just become a pro like I think she'll just sort of shoot through due to perceived lower threat I do think she has the possibility to actually be an undercover very good individual challenge person like we'll have to see that but I think she basically has the correct types of strengths and weaknesses where the weaknesses actually just end up being fine um she's already got an absolute ride or die partner and she's got a couple of other um sort of people on her side so i feel like she would be the one that would really just sort of like shoot through and then actually have a lot of strengths that benefit the end game so i'm gonna go soon amazing well that's it that's all i have thank you harry thank you for coming here on moving weekend that's all right i really enjoyed

it's this is this this week was kind of driving me crazy and that there was just so much and i feel i don't know i don't know that i feel like i found solutions with you but i feel like it created more questions but like still it was i think it's i think question marks are okay i think it's okay to not have a decisive this is correct or this is incorrect and i think that's what makes this game even after decades a really cool thing so i think we keep keep the question marks there's the unknown yeah um where can people find you you're not really tweeting about the show really not at the moment i don't think people can i don't think people can find me you can find you here every october find me randomly we'll do it quicker than october

that makes me feel sad that i'm not i'm not meaning to do that uh you can you can find me on twitter i will randomly tweet about um reality shows it's been a bit of a buffet recently we've had the circle we've had the challenges season 40 it's like a really big milestone one survivors being cool australia versus the world is coming um so it's a big time for reality tv and if the spoiler cast is to be believed we won't go into it but you played with a lot of people on that drive yes i have yeah it's it's weird it's weird seeing so many people that i've talked to and played with in one season. Yeah.

Like that's the majority of that tribe, if that's the tribe. So crazy stuff. A lot of Survivor is going to be happening in 2025. Right now, you can find me at Shannon Gates. Follow, subscribe to the International Survivor Happest Podcast. This is on YouTube. I meant to say that last week and I meant to say it earlier than this. If you've listened to it, it's too late for this one, you know,

but like this is on video now. So we got Harry, you know, bright and early on moving weekend, his smiling face. That's something you can check out. So please, you know, watch it on YouTube and listen to it. I'll help the numbers. Um, no, I don't need to beg. It's thank you for listening um I yeah I have next week I have Teresa from South Africa she's gonna be my guest she's clearly not on Australia versus the world or she's been very busy lately um she'll be my guest next week I also um have an article coming out I think tomorrow on the confessional which is kind of controversial I'm kind of anxious

about it but I've been working on it for months and I've poured like all of my analysis into it. I can see that Kevin is audio noting me. I assume it's still going out tomorrow. It's just finalizing the article. It is about the jury. Okay. I thought let's talk about the most controversial thing.

Let's get people talking. Let's be a lightning rod. Let's be Roman on this. So there's an article about that i've truly poured like months of analysis and thought into yeah so it's gonna i might yeah i'm kind of i'm really actually very anxious about it but i'm really really proud of it so i think that's coming out tomorrow so that's what's happening and yeah follow subscribe watch on youtube all the things harry thank you so much this was such a such a fun time

that's all right it's always good to chat about the pros the cons the positives the negatives um and i'll get back to tweeting soon i'll share a couple of things love it all right well thank you thank you to everyone for listening thank you to our team behind the scenes and i will see you next week bye bye everyone one million pounds million euros million euros one million rubles try to speak try to speak try to speak for the adventure

of a lifetime the adventure of a lifetime the adventure of a lifetime