RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: Idol Bluffs and The Perception of Rachel | S47 Ep 13 with Nina Twine

Episode Date: December 15, 2024

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss talks to Australian Survivor's own Princess Nina Twine about Survivor 47's penultimate episode, including the discourse around Rachel as a player, the idol plays and bluffs this week and each strategic decision in the episode before next week's finale.

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types. It does not treat HPV infections, cancers and diseases and may not protect everyone who gets vaccinated. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur. If you're aged 18 to 45, talk to your healthcare professional or visit getg9.ca today. say survive in new zealand survive survive 21 south africans world ordinary australians one million pounds Hello everyone and welcome to IHAP's coverage of Survivor 47 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shannon Gass here for what even Jeff called the penultimate episode of the season. We might be streaming towards a victory or something I think that would be very surprising and those are the two options and I'm excited to talk about it because there's been a lot of

discourse in the community this week and then there is so much to talk about and to do that I have a great guest she is Survivor Royalty of course our own Australian Survivor US player Nina Twy. Nina thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Yes, I mean, obviously you are a part of Global Survivor as a representative of Australian Survivor. You recently, spoiler alert, came off winning another reality show. So representing the franchise well, how are you doing as a winner of, you know,

doing the family proud, winning another reality TV competition? Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm doing really well. So grateful for everything because without Survivor Australia, I wouldn't be here today. I wouldn't have learned the lessons I've learned during my time there and having that support of those who have seen me there and some new support from all of the people who checked out the anonymous. It was amazing. So fun. And I'm just so happy to be here. And I'm just so happy to be here. Yeah, well, I mean, even more experience to talk about these players and these people.

I mean, heading into what is actually the finale, how are you feeling about the season? Who are you rooting for? Yeah, how are you feeling about all of it? Yeah, I feel great. I have been very interested in this season, especially with all the things going on, as we know. Operations, this and that, alliances, flipping, everything is chaotic. And that's what we love. I've always liked Rachel. I see a lot of things that I do in what she's doing, or at least the rationale behind it. So I really connect with her on that. But I also like teeny um not saying winner pick or not but just the social game um I've always enjoyed yeah well I mean Rachel is obviously the woman of the hour

pulls off this idol play and is going into the finale I think it like you know usually I do my percentages going into the finale my percentages is like 90% I think Rachel will win and 10% I think Sam has a chance because I think that if Rachel just wins the immunity challenge which she's also favorite to do she will go to the end and beat anyone I think she will beat Sam handily I don't think she'd need to put herself into fire I think I mean and I've been wrong before rolling until the votes are red with Gabler but I really think that you know Rachel's been such a threat that if you let her get to the end it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy how did you do that she was the big

person to beat you didn't do it I'm gonna vote for her so if she wins the challenge odds on favorite she's through um then if she doesn't she goes to fire which she's apparently odds on favorite for and then if she goes through she'd beat anyone but in the chance that she loses both which would be so unfortunate from the position she's in I think Sam will win so going in 90 percent um yeah this is like Rachel's game to lose and I and I do think that if that happens from from like a TV perspective then the two part of finale they've done going into a final four um with no vote in the finale which they haven't done before with no vote um would be pretty unfortunate because it seems locked up

I mean there are other seasons of the new era that I think are probably closer you know like Erica had an edit I think we thought she was building to it but like there were question marks around that not that that's good but it is true um you know Marianne had Mike 43 obviously it was very surprising the Tika's were still battling it out um so I think we had kind of thought Dee had it and then obviously Kenzie and Charlie was a toss-up through the finale so I think for me it feels done what would the do you think Rachel has it or do you think Sam could beat her like who do you think has it at this point I definitely think it's one of those two and I'm only saying this from a TV standpoint this specific part because not only are they having they've taken the time as you know they show everything on Survivor with purpose.

They have taken up the time to not only show people telling Rachel, girl, you're going to win, but Sam saying, I'm here to win. And those were two highlights from this last episode I picked up on. And I mainly picked up on it from situations I've been in. I've had people tell me, like, you're going to win the whole thing. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Then they show it and I'm like, oh, my God, I know I won. So that's crazy. And that was really intentional. use, you know, let's just say Tini or Sue wins or anyone else. Couldn't we have used that time to highlight something about them so we can at least connect with them more or at least have a want to root for them. So I definitely agree with you that if that doesn't happen in the next finale episode,

we're going to be like, what was okay. Sure. It kind of feels like a climax that just doesn't really give us a closing chapter of a book yeah well I mean look I've said a couple years ago I'll never say again um that you know there's a zero percent chance people to win I think Sumatini has zero percent chance to win and yeah I think it's it's 90 percent for Rachel I think that when they give Sam a confessional kind of a winner quote where he's like we'll see about that it's to build him up as a possible contender for Rachel but I don't think he will beat Rachel just on game alone. It really seems like she has it. Yeah. On game alone. Right. But we have seen time and time again.

And this is something why I also like don't want to say zero percent. Maybe I'll do one. But people who can argue using their backgrounds, already seeing the way Rachel speaks, knowing Sam's occupation. Sue, we get a little bit teeny, obviously being a social competitor. When it comes down to it, people can argue at a travel council, but when it's for the win, that changes everything. You are going to think twice as much about what you say, when you say and who you're speaking to. And some people fold under that pressure, no matter how great their game was, or they rise to the top. Even if their game wasn't as flashy or with as many moves as others. As long as you can argue, you can take the whole thing home. We've seen that before, like you've said.

So that's where I'm really interested in. Who gets through by winning immunity, by doing fire. And then who can argue the best, who can make that case for themselves. And if somebody is upset with them, who can at least argue or at least try to flip that person? Be like, I know you're mad at me, but please understand this is why I did it. This is how I did it. It wasn't personal. Yeah, but I think something that I have talked about a lot is that the finalists face different juries, the same jury, but it's different depending on who you are and Fatini or even Sue. I mean, Sue coming up in a

difficult demographic, but with their games are harder to defend. It's a more difficult argument compared to Rachel. Now, I know that she's already putting the wheels in motion. I can see it. I do not think that she misspoke when she said, oh, I got the idol after Sierra went home. I think she's lying about that deliberately because she's deliberate in everything because she's going to get to the final tribal council and say, I actually had the idol. I was reading my shot in the dark. She's going to talk about these little moments that she had to bring back things like the rice. You know, they're crediting her for like being the immunity threat to stop car like her game is so easy to defend i'm sure she'll do it well but she'll be running downhill

and everyone else especially against her will be running uphill and that will make it a difficult path so i i do think rachel has it um for me but um let's talk about it with rachel because i feel like the discourse i've seen with rachel is one of the wildest things i've seen in discourse and maybe that's like a maybe that's recency bias because it's probably crazy a lot but my god um you know the takes for the people who aren't chronically online firstly what a life you must lead and I really I'm jealous but for the people who aren't chronically online the takes range everywhere from she is the best player of ever Dominic Abate is saying she's the best player of all time, but it's not just Dominic Abate.

Thousands of likes on tweets like this, you know? So it's a prevailing thought. She can be the best player of all time. Best game of all time is what's being said. Rob's saying best player of the new era. I think I've seen that a lot. Then I've seen she's a bad player. She just got really lucky.

There's nothing there. And for me, I feel like I have the hot take of like she's good you know like she would be a solid new era winner for me around like the three to five mark of new era winners for me which is really strong like I don't want to like take away from her game and I hate having to even come here and discredit her because I want to talk about you know what I think about her game being good but I feel like I can't have it against things that are like, she's the best of all time, because I think that that's insane. And so I really want to talk about this with her game, because she has a very specific type of

game. She has been the underdog. To me, she epitomizes and is the best of this archetype that is the defensive player. And you can say that in different ways she's the fighter the battler from the bottom underdog she's all shield or suit of armor instead of sword she protects she defends but for me she hasn't an agency to control and we can talk about like the different type of games of what is easier and harder um because i think rob has spoken about how you know the newer game often controlling i mean individually is very tough you will get taken out i think people control as a group and differentiate like D and Jam Jam. I think people are underdogs and then come up into the overdog place, like someone like a Marianne. But yeah, just like controlling it may be tough, whereas she's just defended the whole time, literally

bunk it down and you can't take shots at her. Like they will ricochet, she will protect them. And that's her game. And I want to talk about it because I think she might be doing that better than anyone I've ever seen, but I think she's playing that type of game. And I value other types of games more. So when I rank things, you know, she, that I dismiss parts of that. So you, you have been, you've been an overdog. I think you've been controlling like in your first season, in the pre-merge of your second season,

and then through the merge of your second season you were the underdog so do you have any thoughts on like where Rachel sits what type of player she is for you and what is a more difficult or impressive game to play when it's those two types of like offensive versus defensive game styles I think some of the best players get a little bit of both um and I will say although she is heavy underdog she has I I think she's become a little bit of an overdog because she's winning those individual immunity challenges because she has gotten you know in with Sue she's created these great bonds um but I will say I have noticed not only in myself, but those around me, when somebody is in a defensive position, I almost feel that's when they they thrive the most because you are just at your lowest. You want to do any and everything you can. that towards the end, you almost feel defeated.

And we've seen that time and time again. I mean, even, you know, Teenie kind of hit on it. Like I sat there thinking to myself, I don't even know what's going on. We're at the end of this, like, oh, my gosh. And just this defeated motion moment for her where even when she was voting, she was like 30 more seconds, please. Because she hadn't experienced that before being confronted with this individual who has over and over and over again, Genevieve, you know, kind of pull the wool over her eyes. So I, I wouldn't say that I value that game more than others, but I will say that I give it its full credit because I have been as you said the overdog where then you get you know a blind side and you're just like holy crap I needed this it sucks and I really don't want to be in this position

but I needed this because here I am thinking things are going one way and they really aren't and it opens your eyes and Rachel has always had her eyes open from the beginning and in a game like this as fast-paced as it has become in this new era you have to be ready you have to have your head on a swivel and and just do any and everything you can and I see her doing that yeah I mean what you said about pedal to the metal that's what's so interesting to me and I'm going to criticize parts of it before I come in and talk about why I love a lot of what Rachel has done but for me yes being an underdog it's not an easier position but it does mean that you can go all out and not think about the repercussions and firstly being in the position to be a threat that people are targeting

I mean Sam definitely had it from like an aura archetype society perspective. Rachel obviously was giving off a bit of that aura and didn't manage the threat well enough. I think she did it better than Sam and hid through the mid merge quite a bit. But at the end of the day, a lot of people are like, she's played the card,

she's been dealt. Who's dealing those cards? Like she has to have a part in where she is. If people don't want to work with her, if she's being threatening, it's not even like when we talk about returnees coming back.

Like when Sandra comes back as a two-time winner and is a threat that's a different thing she comes in there all a clean slate and she still gets to the point where people are taking shots at her she has to wear being in that position so for me there's parts of the situational aspect of that then pedal to the metal because you're an underdog for me that will always be a little bit of a less interesting game because it's not nuanced like that's yeah to to me, it's not easy because it's hard to do and you have to win out. You have to make good on it. And she has. But if you think about the fact that she can sit at tribal councils and already start giving away her game, already start talking about her game because it's big or go home, like go big or go home. If she loses, she's out. That's the game. And it's just about

taking all of these shots. And for me, that's just a little bit less interesting than the people who definitely have to manage. And for me, like you think about a game like Natalie Anderson's end game, where she strategically builds to the point of where she loses a final four immunity. And she's not the first two targets. Of the three targets, she's third.

That's one of my favorite moves in Survivor history, for me, on my value system, compared to someone needing immunity from the final seven that's probably my biggest criticism of rachel's game that she will she will have won out from eight but she'll have needed it from seven there are great winners who win a lot but don't need it requiring it for me is a gap you know obviously being left out of three votes i think might be a u.s record for a winner if she wins um i know sandra was blindsided a couple of times in pearl islands um that's what you know and sandra's anyone for Sandra was blindsided a couple of times in Pearl Islands.

You know, and Sandra's anyone but me, and that's her type of game. In many ways, that's a little bit defensive differently, strategically. But for her, I think that, you know, it's about fighting. But I criticize parts of that, and I think that as a fandom, often we do. You know, we criticize the people winning out, which I want to talk about in this mold. We criticize that Andy needed two you know advantages to be blocked out like serene advantage get in that the vote block made a split impossible and then the idol um and i think that's rachel's game it's a very interesting

archetype for that game but yeah in terms of like the the wins and the advantages um i know that you and sandra had you know she was like you're the you're the the challenge thread in the family sandra won without ever winning a challenge and I think that's maybe my bias or my value system that yeah this type of game will always just be a little bit more pedal to the metal whereas I enjoy more like the you know puppeteering and the razzle dazzle and like the magic show for me no and I can get that because like you said she could just be out there up front and she definitely has to take responsibility for putting herself in that position as well I mean just like we saw in the last episode where her and Genevieve are like we're the only two we're

this we're that and I'm like girl what are you doing like there's other people sitting right there don't say things like that oh my goodness and then it's like of course they're going to target you you're saying things like that right next to them, discounting their game, making them feel less than because you're, you want to pump people up. Like I want to be next to you. I want to fight against you. I think it'd be amazing. But then you're saying things like that. Like you're just going to win against me point blank period. And that's how you feel. So you can have a great game, but sometimes those social moments where you're not paying attention to what you're saying and who's around is not good to forget about.

Yeah, I mean, and from the beginning. So I think that we've seen, again, those gaps when she's left out, when Operation Italy is won over her, like that has meaning. She gets back to the final six and she loses Tini as a number. It went even worse than I thought Operation Italy would go for her. She's now a target but again she defends with the idol so are those numbers going well no you know and like i thought she'd have shields but sam and genevieve i mean genevieve wins immunity and probably would have been a shield but i thought sam was a shield for her he wasn't so there are gaps there but then she defends so for me like i don't i don't think

rachel came out to play this game. If you told Rachel before the season, you're going to be the one who beats out to the end. I don't think that she would have thought that was going to be her, her path to victory compared to like, even like, you know, a Marianne or an Andy who I think got into situations where they then purposefully were like, I'm going to be the underdog and then kind of like be the overdog. I don't think that she's come to like be an underdog and then fight to the

end. I think it's a different type of game. But I think that in the cards that she and circumstance have dealt her, both of them have, you know, both of things. I think that she's been very good about that. Super deliberate. I haven't disagreed with any moves of how she's been defending.

I just think that it's a very defensive game. But now I feel like I have to speak to, firstly, yeah, a couple of good things because I also think that Rachel is great and people are also saying that she's lucky and bad which is I think wrong um firstly I think that she is a much better player than this game like talk about someone like even maybe Mark from the last Australian Spider season um or I'm definitely like Adam Klein it's like her superpowers are a little bit wasted because her opportunities again, maybe self-made have been limited.

Can you imagine her type of really overly strategic thinking when she has more space? Like I would be scared and I would happily draft her again. So I think that she's an exceptional player playing a solid defensive game. That's kind of my definition of her, but then how do you see, you know, these are, these are the arguments about her being lucky or bad um a lot of the main arguments soul saved her at the tribe shuffle she got lucky to pick a rock to go to um the journey and get the vote block a rock of three and eight people could have been picking her up and um and then obviously she finds the idol on the fries and she's been left out three times so

there might be an element of luck to surviving how do you see kind of how luck factors into a game so it's one of those things that people talk about time and time again most of these games nowadays are not only gameplay but they have luck too you are lucky in so many situations. That's how many people get to get deep into the game. We see it time and time again. So I get it. Maybe they're saying she's gotten way more luck than they're used to seeing. But I don't like when people say that the luck kind of outweighs the moves because there's so many moves. I mean was lucky enough to go to a went this way a cbs event where the auction happened where she got the idol and not only in that episode at the um tribal council when she did play the yeah when she played her shot in the dark the whole theater

gasped okay it was cool you know what i'm saying so she was lucky enough to get it but there is not one person on that tribe or in that um tribal council that would have done that and a lot of people from a lot of other seasons wouldn't have done that i'm not gonna lie watching it also australian survivor we don't get shots in the dark so you know it wasn't at the front of my mind or at least at this time watching her do that i legit grabbed the person next to me and was like she's seeing what they're gonna do and I'm like oh my god what a genius move this is crazy you know what I'm saying so okay she was lucky to get the fries anybody could have bid on them and that person would have been lucky too yeah but they wouldn't have done what she did with that shot in the dark. So I don't like when, when it gets outweighed.

There are so many things because I also in my head say, and if you were in her shoes, you would be happy with the luck. You would be happy that these things happen to you as well in the way that they happen. But would you have been able to then maneuver the next day? Like she did too. I don't want to discount the things that she still did not saying she didn't put herself in certain predicaments or certain you know don't want to discount that either but you get out of those

sticky situation that person has those capabilities and like you said this game I mean as smart as she is it's bigger than her sometimes I think as well where I'm just like this woman is phenomenal I'd love to see her again I'd love to see her in a longer version, maybe even with a bigger tribe, if it's back to two and two. But yeah, luck is always a factor in these games. That's always a topic of discussion. I just wonder what it is about her that it's like now she's a bad player because of how lucky she's been. I think people think she's been overly lucky and that it's more luck than skill. I don't think she's been overly lucky.

I mean, I think that firstly, of the votes she was left out on, you could say, well, why didn't they target her? I think that's earned. You know, they had a relationship with her over Annika in the pre-merge and possibly even over Andy. She earns that.

So that's done. Ciara, they could have targeted her, but she was reading her show in the dark and we hope would have read it correctly to play her idol. So that's done. Sierra, they could have targeted her, but she was reading her show in the dark and we hope would have read it correctly to play her idol. So it would have been again, protected in this defensive game. And then she was protected again

with Operation Italy and she earns that immunity again in her defensive game. So I think that that's across the board earned. Then the soul vote. I really want to talk about this because this is not the soul advantage. The main thing that people say

is that she was saved. And people used to talk about this with Hayley Lee, your old hero tribe mate. And it really is is to this day one of my biggest pet peeves in survivor discourse because hayley like was twist screwed and then she came back and she was to a save like it's a net neutral like if anything she was worse off for it um then people are also comparing rachel's game to hayley and then i'm like no that's too much hayley went to double the tribal councils and was never out of the majority other than that.

So again, the discourse is wrong to me across the board. But on, that's a tangent. On the Sol advantage, she was completely screwed. She had bad luck to be in that position and then was saved. It's a net neutral. We can just let that one go to the keeper. I think that that's the worst argument about her luck

because that's probably the worst luck she had was five minutes before Sol saved her and even being in that group then the vote block picking the rock i thought all eight of them you know should have picked a rock they let her go to a one in three that's five people's mistake she picks it and she makes good on it she gets the advantage she plays it well here again she's maximized every opportunity and i don't see that as that lucky they all could have put their hand in the bag and i think they all made the wrong five of them made the wrong decision and she Sam and Genevieve did the right thing um and then the fries that is lucky it was lucky that she got the eye on the

fries that's the best luck she's had I think that's the only good good luck that I can see that she has had and then again maximizes on that so well with the blind side she's spying she's lying she's crying she was doing all those those things in rhyme and plays it phenomenally. So yes, that was lucky and she maximized. But I don't think that's an exceedingly lucky game. I think that was one lucky break that she made good on. And I don't see the rest of her game as being like this luck-based game for me.

No, and I actually, I love the fact that you made this point. People will say somebody got lucky for whatever reason in whatever situation like you said the fries yeah that's luck but to your other points to your other points five other people made that choice you chose not to do this because I see and I hear so many oh I shoulda coulda woulda you didn't though you didn't though so is that person lucky or did these people make a choice that benefited this person it just when when you say that that makes me very happy that you see

that because there's so many times that i've heard about other players other situations and even in this current game that person's lucky i'm like are they lucky because this person chose not to do that this person chose to pick this they everybody, everybody made their choices. She made the right one and she wouldn't know it was right until she picked that rock until she made that choice until she played in the shot in the dark and didn't play her idol. You don't know until it happens. Those people made their choices and she made hers and hers was the right one. We all play the lottery. I don't know that I'm lucky until I got the numbers but guess what I chose those numbers yeah yeah if she hasn't won an eight shot of picking the rock to go to the journey to get the vote block maybe she doesn't get it like everyone else should have to

wear that I mean Andy who goes for it didn't put his hand in the bag I don't know that he could see it playing out like this but in the situation he was in at the time he also should have been going they were all like I've already been I don't need to and I criticized it then and she did the right thing I was really impressed with it I think she came back um and used it really well and I don't see that as luck the fries is lucky that's not that is the one thing but I don't think yet that her game is overly lucky seats are now and that's why I feel like with the discourse I'm like saying that she's solid is the hot take I have to come in and be like it's not Hayley it's not Hayley's game who's like torn up a pre-merge, you know, before the, like she had done so many things before you could even get to the merge.

The Strand Swiper is very long, but that's a lot. She's not the best player of all time. That's a crazy tip to me, you know. But even the best player of the new era, I think people have done, have had much more agency, much more control. And that matters to me. But I do think that she's playing the best defensive game I've probably ever seen.

I don't know how much more you could maximize on being defensive. She's such an all-rounder. She's done every element of defense. She's thought about it. She's won challenges. She's had trinkets. She's played them well. That, to me, is defensive.

And is it in the Ben Drieberg and the Mike Holloway mold? Yes. And people don't like those winners, so then they feel like that's an insult. And I think maybe there's some bias in trying to separate her from that. I see her very much as the Ben and the Mike, the fighter. I don't say that in a, in a bad way though. I think she's doing that game the best that I've seen. I don't see her as even like a Danny boat ride or a Chris Doherty or these

underdogs who found a strategic crack. She is a fighter. She is beasting to the end. That is the game, but she's doing it better than anyone I've ever seen. like even Chappie is from Survivor South Africa someone who was also trying to maximize on you know getting that type of win but yeah I think she's doing it better and I think that it will earn the win for her so I hope I've been I don't I'd hate to come in discredit rage I hope I've been clear in like the type of game that I think that she's having that is really impressive it's just not like I think some names it's almost unfair to her and me having to you know then weigh it against like these like impossible conversations that I think she's not the best player of all time why are we even talking about

that um but then I'm having to discredit her and there are so many people who I think wrongly discredit her to underrate her even more I'm like no but don't go that far because that's I think that's way off the other end um so I hope I've been clear and where I sit in the middle and why I think both extremes are wild. No. Yeah. And I think too, that there, I almost want to say like a little bit of time needs to pass before you label somebody as like the greatest of all time or the greatest of the new era, anything like that. Um, I get where those come from. I almost like a top 10 list you know what I'm saying I'm never one to be like the greatest number one point blank I'm like put them in a list that's what I like maybe narrow it down anything um but I I agree with you in what you're saying to make sure

your stance is clear that you don't want to discredit somebody that you still think is playing a great game exactly I I completely agree with you and from my point of view I understand where you're coming from thank you and I'm glad that you're saying my point of view I understand where you're coming from thank you and I'm glad that you're saying it that way as well yeah I like well don't but it was like maybe we should debate on RGP I'm like I will do it but like also I'll be sad to come in on the anti-racial side because I think she's really strong then I could go also debate someone saying she's so lucky and be on the pro-racial side like I'm slap bang in the middle and honestly I have seen like a bigger discourse around louder voices being like yes solid winner and I'm like yes let's all stay here in normality together

because otherwise I feel like I'm losing my mind but anyway I think we've talked it through I think people get where we stand on Rachel as a player um in terms of like her move this week um there's a couple of interesting things here firstly we got this question a lot on social media so I'd like to ask you in her defensive game protects with the idol then wins at five do you think she could have tried to bluff the idol tell everyone you can't split the vote i'm blocking a vote three to two with me and sue and she gets sue in a really important way um i'm wearing the idol public idol you can't vote for me and then they can't vote for her she keeps it has a little bit of risk there it goes to five uses it a five doesn't have to win out how do you feel about this as a move

what she actually did I feel as far as jury management goes was way more impressive I was thinking to myself you know as a viewer if I was a juror what would I think and I'd be like oh my god she's going home this sucks when you can shock the jury right then and there in front of everyone and allow them to see the reaction of your fellow players that are still in the game, that is ice cream on the cake. She doesn't even have to explain anything, anything where she used the idol, maybe bluff,

maybe said, I am going to use it, whatever. That's going to be a topic of discussion. She already told us she had it she already did she already that it there's no razzle dazzle to it it's just is she gonna play it is she not let's see if she makes the right choice instead she allowed everyone to be like i'm defeated i'm this oh i hate that this could happen just so you guys also know him him her and her decided to tell me that i am gonna go home andy wanted to say this sam wanted to say that they all we had a whole funeral procession like we did all of this oh woe is me psych i'm still in the game that i mean jury management that was amazing and even of tribal, even if that wasn't about the jury

and that was earlier in the game, I still would have been like, girl, yes, because I am even shook and I love to see everyone's faces behind you. Well, that's one of those. And this, I think, speaks to a game, right? It's a flashy defensive game. She said that when Sol gave her the advantage,

she earned through their relationship. Anyway, tangent. She's not that lucky. Okay, when, yeah, she's not that lucky okay um when yeah she said that her husband was like don't go home with something in your pocket i think she really wants to play the thing she coming off a season where everyone went home with something she wants to make sure and i don't think she wants to risk of going home with something in her pocket it's a different type of game her game is flashy this is super flashy for a jury and she's allowed to raise

her threat level because she's trying to win out so it doesn't matter and it's super defensive it means she has to back herself to win the next time and she does win and she's also to raise her threat level because she's trying to win out. So it doesn't matter. And it's super defensive. It means she has to back herself to win the next time. And she does win. And she's also on favorite to win. And that's a credit to her as well. I think that both are interesting. Both have risk. Obviously this had risk at five, extreme risk.

But you also, if Genevieve, well, she thinks Genevieve has the idol. So she's not even a shield. So it's a lot of risk at five. Not playing it and bluffing it is risk at six that they just are like that's what she wants us to think and now we're in a little bit of like a you know game of chicken with each other um so there would be some risk there I do think as well yeah the flashiness

of not just getting the idol um and playing it correctly but taking out Andy and I want to talk about a decision of Sam versus Andy but when Andy has blindsided her three different times she now has a good story for the jury of like but I got him in such a deliberate individual with Sue but way and so public and like I you know he won the battles but I won the war and I do think that's important to her story because obviously the decision for her is Sam versus Andy um so where did you kind of sit on what she should do with that with her idol of who she can take out at the point where she can choose between Sam and Andy I I'm glad she chose Andy because what it tells me as a player is that discussion that she had with him where he was like flat out saying everything he did it must have been good enough

to scare her you know what I'm saying he must have been able to speak well enough because again we've seen players where we're like wow what a great game and then they pitch at the end whether you see it properly on tv or hear it from somebody who was in the jury and they're like they did not pitch that well guys like it was not that good so for Andy to say something to have her shaking in her boots, she made the right decision. And not only that, he let her know, which is a mistake I've done before, that he really respects her. He really likes her. He really trusts her. He sees, he knows that he's done wrong to her and he wants to make that right by being open and honest with her. And I would

think to myself, man, if this guy was on the jury, he'd probably feel so bad about what he's done to me that he would at least consider giving me a vote. Then he's making this great argument. And because he is such a flip-flopper, he's open to any opportunities. He might not be happy, obviously, that he's going to go home. But I bet you he respects the hell out of her for what she did. Because I would be like he

didn't even look mad I would have been like dang girl you did it like I love this and I think Andy although I don't know him based on what I've seen in the season he would be one of those players so I think she made the right choice where somebody like Sam is just going to be absolutely salty he's already feeling defeated, already on the bottom. He already has been gunning for her. So to win him over is probably going to be not a super uphill battle. But, you know, he already has that wall up for her. So I think she made the right choice and I'm glad she did it. It was very satisfying to watch, not going to lie, because I was like, man, these people are just like, yeah, you're done.

So I don't really care I'm just gonna tell you all this stuff and I'm like until they're on the bench they sit there and they say you never know what can happen you never know what somebody will pull out of their hat this and that yet they still will be like nah you're done yeah we're good yeah they don't really believe I don't even care why don't save it for later yeah I like obviously we can talk about them all not lying to her face and I want to talk about that um but Andy did respect it I'm obviously devastated to lose both Andy and Genevieve in this episode because they were two you know such incredible players I think in a pretty even cast even on on kind of confessionals on airtime on

on even game styles like I don't think that anyone's been so far above I think everyone's had gaps and I think that's and a lot of like highlights and great thinking and I think that's been so interesting to watch yeah but to watch Rachel here do this I feel like this episode for me had a lot of kind of tweener decisions when I'm like I can kind of go either way I'm not like super intense either way like on her bluffing the idol I see her doing what she did i think it makes sense from a story um perspective from a safety perspective and in her game style on voting out andy versus sam for me it's that she needs to win out and sam is a bigger immunity threat so i might tweener lead to voting out sam but in saying that he did say he felt really sick

so maybe you're less worried about how he'll be in challenges in the next couple of days. She has been, he's won reward challenges, but she has held her own. And then for, you know, the story of Andy. And I think, you know, I think she could sit next to him, but I would rather actually sit next to Sam if it's going to get to that point. Although, yeah. And it might get to that point now, you know, with someone like, you know, Genevieve as a shield before. The only thing is that I think that in terms of the final five, they think Genevieve has an idol at that point.

And so she thinks she's either going to win. If she doesn't win immunity, she goes home. And if she does win immunity, she'd surely think it's the other one of Sam or Andy. So I don't think that her concern should be as much about who she's sitting next to at that point, because she thinks Genevieve has the idol. So I do think that it may be more just on who she can beat but then I also think that her story so even sitting next to Sam just to be able to say like I beat Andy um from a story

perspective doesn't matter who she sits next to that looks really good and covers some of the gaps that she's had from being blindsided by him three different times so between your decision for me I might take out Sam from a physical standpoint, but I don't think that it hugely matters. But I do want to talk about what you're saying is where Andy went wrong. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian superstore with PC express shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started.

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At United Way, we wake up to a different alarm every day. Help us end poverty and build a better GTA any way we can. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. Andy going home here, you know, such a big character. And there was so much discourse as well around Operation Italy. Would he go home next? I was like, definitely not. He did. But in ways that I genuinely never expected. What did you think about? Yeah. Firstly, what did you think about Operation Italy?

Did you think it was a good move? And how did you think about the fallout as to how it pertained to this episode? Yeah, no, I think any good blind side is a good blind side like i you know as long as you can get out of it right and unfortunately he didn't i think he could have i think that there's just certain discussions that were had um especially with uh rachel sneaking down at night and hearing the way that they were speaking and ready to gun for her next if those discussions were maybe a little bit more hidden um and they were paying attention a little bit more they could have maybe even gotten around that andy at least because then that confirms that he knew and the fact that everybody's like or not everybody but teeny was kind of like oh it was just the accident and rachel's like no it wasn't he flipped on purpose like what are you talking about

if they had told her that story if they had made sure they had a discussion with her mainly Andy of course because he's the one that needs to make sure he's good in you know with them then it could have changed I don't know I just see that I think he got a little bit too cocky he saw all these plans that he had really come to fruition and follow through. And he was able to do all these things that he's kind of like maybe took a step back when he should have made sure that he double checked and chatted with any and everyone all day. You cannot, after a big blindside like that, that people were not expecting at all after you sat there time and time again, making sure that they voted a specific way and weren't going to do anything.

And then they're telling you, no, why don't we just give it to Sam? No, how do you even know? How do you know? No, no, no, let's not do it. And then you still convince them to do it. You have to do damage control. And I think maybe that's where Andy lacks,

doing damage control, which is also why you see a lot of people on the jury while impressed by his moves. A lot of them probably don't really care for him on a personal level. Damage control is a huge part of survivor that some people forget about or at least they think that they can do better than they do and i think andy's one of those people that while he can try his best to get those relationships back on track he ends up just saying the wrong thing and Rachel to her credit just because we're talking about Andy fed into his whole thing about perception like you

know everybody just thinks this about you everybody just thinks that about you and it really dug him down into a hole where he was like oh my gosh I have to start thinking about all these things let me spill my guts to Rachel the wrong person to do that with because you already severed that relationship the way you went about you know Operation Italy while it was impressive it backfired and unfortunately he went home next and although I wouldn't have mind to see him you know continue on it was still satisfying when she finally you know was able to get that done yeah I mean I think that operation Italy, I think that he actually came back from operation Italy itself very well,

better than I, who was so high on the move ever even could have thought. I mean, like I thought he would come back to possible shields with people, not wanting to work with him, but some space there, he came back to numbers. They brought teeny over. Yeah. Again, it went worse for Rachel than I thought where Rachel loses enough. went better for andy than i thought where he gets the numbers he brings over teeny um he has different shields than i thought actually i thought he would have yeah genevieve sam and then rachel is shield and that until he kind of buried himself was true but it was that the other way it was like kind of rach genevieve he said he would have voted out

next if she didn't win immunity. And I thought that would happen. I didn't think that Operation Italy was going to be long term. I thought that he would go back on the next threat he said he was going to. So that would be good. So Genevieve was the top threat, top shield. Then Rachel actually kind of shifted where she became the next biggest shield, even coming back from the loss. She's apparently the biggest firemaker. So Rachel's a huge shield.

And Sam was even a shield. He had three shields in front of him. That's so, so good. That's what I was hoping would happen he comes back even with kind of less of the threat because he convinces at least you know just teeny and Rachel calls it out very well a tribal council but convinces teeny that um it was all kind of a happy accident people think that it was an actively bad move because he kept it not just Genevieve over Caroline but Genevieve with at that point quote-unquote an idol so he maybe you know at that point, quote-unquote, an idol.

So he maybe, you know, at that point isn't as big a threat because people aren't seeing the clear move at that time, which is going to have its own issues and maybe why he'll have to speak to Rachel about it. But I thought he came back really, really great. He clearly gave himself a jury story that eventually Rachel was going to deem too threatening. So I was really happy with the way that it went for him.

Then he buries himself, obviously, by telling Rachel about the game um i do think that this was obviously for all four of them so complacent we you don't tell people to their face that they're going home it's it's way too cocky and obviously not how you play survivor for reasons that i think have become abundantly clear um but i do think with andy's game he said in his exit interviews that his perception was a feature not a bug I've criticized the perception at times you know for being someone who I thought at the time you know was a goat um and I said he needs to drastically change that and he did I said you know well it's you know people want to play with him but it's easier to because he's a goat he's saying he knew that he lent into it once the ball was rolling from the first couple

of days he lent into that knowing would give him space knowing would give him relationships and time and i do think that's really impressive and i do credit that and i think it's valid but the drawback is now you're really gonna start firing to have potential with the jury so he does operation italy it was razor thin whether it would work but that's the shot that's the best shot that's better than trying to get to file anything like this is actually, he gave himself a chance to win, but it almost then even wasn't enough probably.

So then he feels like he has to go to Rachel and has to explain his game to her. And that was a risk necessitated by the game style he had chosen. It gave him massive benefits and these are the massive cons. I don't back doing it with Rachel, but I think that also it's a symptom of the game

he validly tried to play, that has drawbacks and it's difficult because now you're having to over explain your game and there's parts of that that are dangerous as well so I think that's what happened to Andy but I don't think it was on Operation Italy I think it was on the conversation that he went home yeah it absolutely was and I can see where you're coming from that I'm glad that he he switched up obviously and I think sometimes like I was just thinking in the last episode he's so perceptive of others and of his own perception that other people have of him but then I also felt like it was a downfall like anytime somebody said like well you know people feel like you're a goat people feel like this or that he gets into his head

sometimes does a great move sometimes doesn't obviously he went home dug himself into a hole so ultimately it was his full-on you know downfall and like you said when you play a game that you really do have to explain to people it's one of those tough ones that you need to be able to get to the end and you're not going to do that when you get into a position where you're telling one of the most threatening people what your game is I've seen it I've heard it um and you just don't do that not right then not at the pointy end of the game and Andy is very impressive I just have like such a weird feeling when I watch him because I'm like, I'm so glad that he's doing these things,

but also kind of frustrated at times because of the fact that how he started, you know what I'm saying? I love when people really kick things into high gear, but it's like, dude, you were making all these comments about watching people, Sam bickering at the beginning about, you know, doing the clothesline, like watching these people, they can say whatever they want but their actions are what really speaks to it and I'm like dude your action spoke to you like you let everybody not everybody well at least in this specific situation you let Rachel get into your head about what people perceive about you and you let your guard down at a moment where you thought she was going home, but you know, that things flip you've been a part of those flips. So,

yeah, I was very impressed by him, but it also, he's one of those that I'm just so 50, 50. Every time I watch, I'm like, dude,

you're so smart, but you're lacking in, in something. Something is just not clicking where you're like, hold on, pump the brakes. Yeah. Well,

I mean, look, Rachel's drawing on like a real insecurity, like the jury issue. Like it is an issue in his game. Again, it's a feature, not a bug, but it's a feature that has cons, pros and cons every time, you know, every way you try to play the game. And for that, that was his massive con. For me, firstly, I think, yeah, Rachel, this is underratedly great. The way that Rachel puts that pressure on from a jury perspective to the point where he thinks he needs to do that.

Great move by Rachel in this episode of great moves for her. And I will say as well for me I would do it at the the final four tribal council like now like the new era by not having a voted for has been like gifted this like pre-final tribal council tribal council at final four where you win immunity you have time to talk even if you're taken through you can talk if you go to fire talk like at that point I think is when like a fire maker is like made up their mind more and it's time to just like you go to fire talk like at that point I think is when like a fire maker is like made up their mind more and it's time to just like you have to win out anyway you have your chance to win and I would do it then and I I wouldn't do it earlier but I do I was happy about this because I feel like the whole not that he went but like in the way that it happened the whole week I was

seeing like things again the discourse has been driving me a little crazy and I don't know if you can tell um yeah there was a lot of like results oriented thinking oh well like operation Italy will be a good move if he wins and a bad move if he loses and like for me it was always like even if he goes home next then you know like he had no chance to win so that like is already like we can't deem it a bad move there is no bad move when you're drawing dead um even if he goes home next if the jury were never going to vote for him even after this then there's no point then nothing matters so then just have fun like to me that was so clear that it didn't need much more information to know at least that it wasn't a bad move short of the jury being like we were going to vote for andy so then you had something to lose you have nothing to lose when you literally can't win i think that was a big

thing for me. And I think that this has shown a lot about results oriented thinking that has been better in the discourse because he then does go home. But I feel like people now realize it's not because of, you know, Operation Italy. And sometimes like that's not causation. But I also think that like had he just gone home and it hadn't been so much of a roller coaster where he like came back really well and then fell maybe people would have been like up see Operation Italy and it would have been like no it was still a good move so I feel like that you know just some stuff about like results or into thinking it's like it's either if we don't have

enough information as viewers I think that it's fair to be like let's wait and see how it goes I also think that there's like players like you know Genevieve in the soul move if she like that I think is a multi-part move. Like sometimes you have to come back and specifically recover well to be like, this was worth it. The juice was worth the squeeze. I think that's important. But then I think there are some moves where you can see it's good because

again, it betters your chances a hundred percent. It might better your chances from like zero to 10. And then, so you're still going to lose 90% of the time, but then you can't say, Oh, he lost 90% of the time 90 but it's better than 100 I think have I made sense on that no no it's because it's a lot of I'm every time you're saying something I'm like ah so I I guess people say about me no no but it's good though because it's got me going because I I guess my perception of it which maybe I'll backtrack on something I said before, where him kind of like digging himself out of a hole. I'll take that back.

Like, he did come back really well because I can see now based on what you're saying and your perception of it. It wasn't even, it was a good move point blank period. I guess I associated him having another successful move with how he then got kind of on a high horse and was like, Oh, everything I know is right. Rachel, you're going to go home because I've been on top doing these crazy moves and flipping and having it be successful. Um, that I can just say and do whatever which ended up being his downfall so I'll take that back about him digging himself out of a hole he didn't have to but the success he had with that blindside operation Italy got him in a position that we've all seen where somebody has power and they've successfully done something where they're

kind of like oh you know I know that this is going to happen. So might as well just tell you, like, can you give me some points about this? So I'll take that back that I'm more associated with him being in a position where he kind of puts his blinders on and forgets, dude, you don't need to be telling people this because like you said, he could have waited. He could have made sure in that final four um tribal then he can start kind of hinting at things um that he has done and like but you know like you said I don't know if he would have pulled out the win but a great move is a great move I was impressed by it I was you know no matter how I feel about any player a good move is a good move and Operation Italy was a great move yeah I mean Operation Italy was 100% the best shot he had from where he was at, and I'm really

glad that he took it. But I mean, I called him cocky, and actually, I'm going to walk that back, because I think a lot of people have seen it like, he pulled off this amazing move, and then got cocky, and then told Rachel. I don't actually, I don't see it like that. I think they all got very complacent, and there's no forgiving the fact that they weren't lying to her face.

But, especially because he's a swing vote, just be like, yes, I will vote for Sam. You know, like I think, and I think Rachel plays him well at that point being like, if you lie to me, Sue and I won't vote for you, what she said in the exit. I think he plays that really, really well. But for me,

it's just about still blindsiding her and making that choice. Cause I think the other version of it is too risky just from like letting her know she's the target, let alone telling her your whole game. I think that to me, I mean, she'd already spied on them, but without that, like, you should be coming back and her know she's the target let alone telling her your whole game I think that to me I mean she'd already spied on them but without that like you should be coming back and saying that she's with teeny like how did she even know that she was so much the target for everyone I think that that is what it is but I don't think that him telling her is the result of his cockiness on the move I think it's based on some valid insecurities about his game it's a calculated risk based on the game that he had got himself into of being such a low threat level that he'd benefit in many ways but then needed to try and differentiate so for me

it's based on yeah insecurity more than cockiness and a valid one a game-based one at that but I still don't back you know telling Rachel about your whole game and not blindsiding her it's more about just do not blind do not not blindside her is my main thing um and then I spoke about like he could have um he could have gone with Rachel and voted out Sam kind of another tweener decision for me um I think you know Sam I think he might want to sit next to Rachel more possibly even though that might seem a little crazy because Rachel's seen as the biggest threat but he specifically if she doesn't get that win over him which we're talking about it's so good for her story then just sit next to her and be like are you gonna I made her look foolish three times and she might be like but I defended and talk about again the way I've argued for her but um sitting next to Sam might

be worse for him I think Rachel's a bigger competitor um challenge fire so do you think did you would you have entertained voting out Sam or do you think he was right to target Rachel as he did um I think he was right in the moment I I probably would have also wanted to try to target her and with with everyone being on the same page, and I know you never have an easy vote, but when you really do feel like everyone is on the same page, do you really want to ruffle those feathers that late in the game? Yeah. Yeah. I, I probably would have voted for her. I think that it would have been a really, well, it wasn't even a move because everybody was voting for her.

So it wasn't like he pulled something off where at least you could say you were a part of her going home with Sam going home. I mean, he's been like a dead man walking for quite some time. What is that going to do for your game? And she's also so smart. And I think she's also one of those players that, you know, she'll respect your gameplay and have that argument with her to be like, Rachel, you know, when this, this and that happened, I fooled you. You know, I loved you. I hated that it had to happen that way. But I was open with you. So I can I probably would have aimed for Rachel unless something happened that day. I probably would have aimed for her as well. Yeah, I think on the tweener, I think that that Rachel's fine he said in his exit he was even more scared of sitting next to Rachel even with the strategic wins over her than Sam so at that point it becomes I think pretty clear I think the

one thing you would say about Sam is like at least Sam gets blindsided so he can't idle um you out at the point where they're just telling the target without any backup without being able to split um who the target is. But at that point, yes, just blindside to say you're voting for Sam and convince her really, really well. So I think that I would lean to that. I think that Rachel is a very big threat. And I think he could have trusted Rachel.

She's not going to like, she and Sue aren't going to like 2-2-1 him and put themselves in that position. You can try to go to that three. She has the vote block. It is a really valid plan. He's literally the swing vote coming back from Operation italy which is so crazy to me and so impressive and so good um but at that point i think that on the balance of everything i get that rachel at that point kind of has it all in terms of you know what she's bringing in and the

threat level that she is so i get taking out rachel but on that i'd love to talk about sue because sue is huge here even like Rachel's like I think thinking of trusting Andy until Andy does tell her to her face but even before that Sue is like don't trust Andy you know locking in Sue which Rachel does and I thought it was so good to come to her and tell her about the idol because Sue is a loyalty player and if she doesn't have Sue I someone is one vote splitting probably Andy on a Sue. You know, she takes out Andy because they cannot split on the three, two. Having Sue with her so strongly, I think is like really essential to the plan. But then there's another part of Sue where it looks like she probably won't

win. So how do you see about where Sue's game is at? Because I think she did well on this episode, but it was more well to empower Rachel how do you feel like Sue is doing to empower her game what's what is the path for Sue if any sitting here at a final four where she should hopefully have a chance to win one of the only things I can say is just speaking to that loyalty which we know now when it's really only to one person it doesn't get you far. I didn't want to bring up Rachel again, but it really did make me give her a lot of credit because if you notice when Sue was looking for the idol, she didn't even hesitate. She said, look, I have it. That tells me that Rachel sat

there, thought about it, did not hesitate on, oh, should I tell her? Should I not tell her? No, I'm going to tell her for a fact, because I also know that Sue values this. Her number one is gone. going to tell her for a fact because I also know that Sue values this her number one is gone when you have a number one that that that is that tight and that closely tied to you when I look at the jury I just think god she's going to have to talk to everyone and have a lot to say and unfortunately I don't know if she's going to have that much to say other than her number one ally that's on there who's probably going to have to back her and instead of asking a question give a statement that makes her game look a little bit better to appeal to everyone else that that's gonna be super difficult um yeah yeah I don't have a whole lot to say on that only because unless she has some

crazy amazing argument with which I know she kind of pulled out the idol in the last moment and said you know I got this idol from this area um or time in the game so she's had it for a while it's like what what else are you gonna be able to argue it's really hard I don't know maybe you can pull something out maybe your ally can help you from the juror's side but that's when I look at everybody else around you that have these different I mean even teeny she said her social game was crazy you know like that's her strong suit she at least has the relationship with a lot of those people so that that's going to be an uphill battle for her for sure I think Sue has some relationships like I think if you're going to say anything about Sue like her getting to the end as a loyalty player

it's a tough demographic demographic from a respect perspective I think that it's tough from a strategic perspective in the way, in the agency that she's, I thought she was really good pre-merge, but through the post merge, you know, Caroline talked about in her ex interview that she wanted to, to secretly like act, you know, fractured and then secretly be strong. And I was criticizing that they actually were fractured. And a lot of that, as I've said, was Sue. There's a, there's, there's things to criticize strategically, but she has Gabe, she has caroline like hers is going to have to be on relationships um so if that's what it is and she has gotten to the end she doesn't need to do the flashy thing because she's trying to win a loyalty game which

i think is a tough path but i think is her most viable path at this point but yeah from a respect perspective i think that sue is the other pathway of andy not doing operation italy and i think sue will go to the end and lose in a way that Andy might have too, because Sue's not doing anything. If I was Sue here and trying to win on game respect, I'd do anything. She has an idol, like playing that idol at the final five and not, not getting votes. Looks like nothing, you know, like, I'd almost rather just save it and bring it out of final tribal council,

like, oh, save Genevieve, save Genevieve. And then win the challenge and then put yourself into fire and bring it out of final tribal council like oh save Genevieve save Genevieve and then do something and then win the challenge and then put yourself into fire and then take out Genevieve like there that's how much you need to do it and Andy did a big shot like that that was more successful and like such a great shot at Operation Italy and I think that she needs to be doing that much without doing that I still think she advanced her type of game she's a loyalty game I just think that that is a tough game for her to win no and I agree and you can also you know and you hear especially because you know she's saying it around camp she holds grudges I mean she really does not let certain things go even when I saw

the snippet of when she said like once Kyle was gone she was like dying for him to go since you know the first few days and finally it happened and it's kind of like I get it but you a lot of jurors really do respect players who are a little bit more adaptable and will just kind of let things go and just move on with the game as it should be and be able to be open and for her to say that you know it kind of made me go oh girl like you're not really malleable you know you're not really flowing the way I would have hoped you would. And having a great ally, a number one, I've been in that position. You really don't want to lose them. And it's rare to really have somebody that you're like, holy crap, this person's not going anywhere. But when you tie yourself so

closely to them that it's, you know, like a big part of your game. Cause all I could think was to having them two at the end before she went home. I was thinking, how would they differentiate themselves? And anytime I see a player with such a close tie to somebody else that it's hard for me to wonder and make an argument for how they would differentiate their games from each other. I go, oh, that's going to either one of you making it to the end. That's going to be difficult because everybody's going to always say, well, that well that was Sue well that was Carol you know like how do you guys separate yourselves um especially when Caroline seems like the alpha in that pair

yeah exactly so that's even worse I do wonder what Sue and Teenie are thinking like at the point of operation Italy has worked and Andy is now like a bigger threat and maybe Andy covers well enough by like tricking you know Teenie into that it wasn't like a whole master plan but like they know that Genevieve is a huge threat they know that Rachel is a huge threat they know that Sam has been spoken about as a threat Andy's now a threat like where are they looking at who they can be um because Teenie says that at the gen when Genevieve goes to five at the tribal council that like this will goes to five at the Tribal Council, that like this will be like winning or losing move.

And it's not. Actually, like you've been given the gift of space. The way that Andy was, like when you can't win, like, okay, it gets so fun. It's like you're playing with house money, except that money is a lack of money because you're not going to win. You know, like do anything, anything.

Anything is a good move. Like, even if it makes you go from zero to one, just do anything like imagine the freedom to just freaking play your idol on this person maybe go home like do it anything so I don't know what they think um yeah I don't know what they think that the pathway is for them I don't know but they better get it together soon because if they don't have a good argument yeah like you got like 24 hours girl um and I think also sometimes like if Tini says something at tribal council about you know like Genevieve kind of pulling the wool over her eyes again and again I'm like girl don't say that oh my gosh like

why are you saying that they need nothing if not very honest you know and which is great because that kind of fosters you know some really amazing relationships um but then me as Genevieve on the jury I'm going to be like guys like she wasn't even on it you know then Andy goes oh we totally lied to her she just like went along with it so where's that respect going to come from especially if you're also admitting that you just didn't know and we we've I mean, blind sides don't happen without somebody being in the dark. I've been in the dark. Other people that I've worked with, played with or were completely on opposite sides of have been in the dark. But where do you go after that? That's what's important. And if you're continuing to be in the dark, like you said, that gives you space to just say, screw it. Let me just figure something out. And I wish there would have been a moment where, at least in these last few episodes, where I was like, yes, Teenie is on it. She's got it going, you know? And the thing is, you know what really kills me? This is what I wanted to say. She doesn't listen to her gut. She does not listen to her gut. I used to tell myself, please try not to let anyone manipulate you. If

your gut is telling you something, go with it to the best of your ability. And there's so many times I see Tini say something because they always include it. They always show Tini, that's not true. Why would we do that? That makes no sense. Yet she allows that other person to kind of bulldoze over her and say, forget what your gut is telling you or what your brain is saying is fact. Just go with me. And she does. And I'm just like, girl, listen to your gut. You know, something is wrong. Like, you know, and you're saying it. So that's something if I was a juror, I'd be like, girl, you didn't you know, you kind of just allowed other people to take the lead. Yeah, but I do think her gut is getting worse.

Her gut reminds me of how my gut was when I traveled to Canada earlier in the year. And the layover, for reasons, ended up being really short. I was flying for 24 of 25 hours. I was on the ground for an hour. You know, at the start, my gut was fine. My stomach was fine. By the end, I was throwing up into a bag. And that's where Teenie's gut has gotten, I think,

because I think that it was so compelling, the montage of like Teenie's been so spun around that Teenie doesn't know what's real anymore versus what is fake. And I think it's so much harder to read it when they feel like divorced from reality to a degree. So I think that the gut is hard. And I think that that was shown so well.

And I want to talk about it in Genevieve bluffing the idol. Now, this is without my gut being spun around and with like to talk about it in Genevieve bluffing the idol now this is with without my gut being spun around and with like all the nourishment in the world and well you know slept and rested and fed and all those things I even then was like trying to work out how to try and read Genevieve and I want to talk about this because I think bluffing on an idol at five well you're not trying to bluff it through a round like it's the last time you can play it um so I want to talk about like how you can try and read Genevieve's bluff here because i think it's really difficult um but i will say firstly on the decision for all of them of should they vote for genevieve or not

how is this even a question for not even on the bluff and on what genevieve said and i want to talk about that but rachel's immune and for rachel if it's a one percent chance that the idol is fake rachel should do it like worst case scenario you lose a teeny like rachel needs genevieve out from a challenge perspective from a jury perspective i think genevieve could beat rachel and she's immune so like if it ricochets i was like well that was collateral damage so for rachel 100 for sue and for teeny so he's gonna be immune too firstly and secondly like they they like are goats like are you gonna be that conservative with this type of game that you won't take the So he's going to be immune too, firstly. And secondly, like, they are goats. Like, are you going to be that conservative with this type of game that you won't take the shot at the clear biggest threat

because maybe she's immune? On a 50-50, I think surely you have to do it. So firstly on that, I think they all have to do it. But also on the bluff. What did you think about this with Genevieve bluffing the idol? So Sam comes and is like, idol is fake. Are Sam and Genevieve in cahoots and the idol is not fake but they're trying to say that so that you vote for them and now it ricochets it's a tough bluff

so what did you think about this boy so it was very hot like I I'll I'll go back like to the initial bluff when she told teeny that it was real i literally paused the show and i was talking to my partner i said oh my gosh and of course i'm a viewer right but i'm like what bs this is ridiculous that was actually dumb to me and he was like why and i was like i all i could think was you're my opposition because at that point in time, I know they tell teeny stuff, but like, you're my opposition. You tell me, yeah, keep all the votes on me because I have an idol. You barely flash it because somebody might become, yeah, I've had people, and I'm saying this from experience, they have an idol. I mean, Jordi was like, boom, here it is right in your face. Don't even care.

Here you go. It's not like a meek. It was very meek and like, well, I don't really want to show you why you have it as yours. I can't steal it from you. You know, that was my first thought. And then you're being my opposition. You're like, yep, make sure everything is on me. Yep. That's good. And I'm like, that that's almost a little bit too. It didn't make sense. If teeny, if teeny had thought about it it it's not how an actual idol that's how you always have to think about when you think about bluffs if they actually have the idol what will they do i think that's tricky for genevieve in this situation but that's that's how you have to try and get your head around what yeah and making sure you're i feel like there's many times i see this and i'm not going to say I'm not guilty of it where people put players in kind of like a

lump where it's like wait but think about the person you're talking to this is Genevieve is she really just gonna be like yeah no this yep cool yep you know like what that that's really out of character I don't I don't know it rubbed me the wrong way um and then with the bluff later on i i get why they were so apprehensive on whether to believe sam or not i get i almost wish that either it was shown or like more of a conversation was had because you look at him and he's like i just want to make sure i don't want to i don't go home like you know y'all are on opposing sides. Why would he need to tell you that? And of course, Andy's not there to confirm it because now he's on the jury. I like the fact that she brought it up during tribal council to be like,

I don't know, because that's such a high pressure situation. I want to see how you guys react. And maybe that's where, you know, the bluff kind of, although it didn't work out, she still made her decision, but it took her longer because they show the little snippet of like Sam smiling at Genevieve like oh yeah you know I told her whatever then it's kind of like are you guys tricking me I don't know when when you're talking on the island and when you're talking in jury somebody can say the same thing and you have completely different interpretations of it I've been there where I'm just like holy

crap they said that earlier but did they actually mean it the complete opposite way I have no idea so I I think Sam should have just went about it another way just to secure like let Teenie know this is legit like fake I don't think he convinced her well enough um but something still went right where maybe Teenie finally listened to her gut and was like nah it's fake screw it let's just take the shot because no matter what I want her gone and I want to at least try to have done it well I mean on Sam and we've had questions around like should Sam have outed the idol earlier because obviously outing it at five when he is desperate um you know like like it's hard to then read it and it makes it seem like he's lying um Because again, like, again,

like if they actually have the idol and want to use it, this is why it's so hard to read. He would do the same thing. If he wants the votes off him anyway, just to not go home, which he is, then he would say it's fake, which is true. But also if they want to ricochet and take someone out and they have the idol either way, I mean like, yeah, he never wants them to vote for him at final five. So either way, like they wanted to ricochet. I think the one thing that you can say is like, if they actually have the idol, either way, I mean, like, yeah, he never wants them to vote for him at final five. So either way, like they wanted to ricochet.

I think the one thing that you can say is like, if they actually have an idol, maybe they just say, Hey, let's not say anything. You have implicit immunity. Genevieve played the idol on me and we can ricochet that way. But I think it's also possible that if Genevieve has the idol, if you're thinking about it like that, she would say, no, I'm definitely protecting myself. I'm not taking that risk just to save you. Especially if Alliance game is over, this is the final vote um so I do think again like yeah if it's real um

they want to ricochet it he would say it's fake if it's not real he doesn't want the votes anyway it's really hard to read that but I don't think that you for Sam say it earlier because I think you're severing options I think that in the high likelihood or high possibility that a good challenge competitor like Genevieve wins at five, you know, she seems to really want to work with Sam. Then it seems like Sam has an idol, you know, so that could change everything for them. So I think he has to do it in the moment and he does.

And then in terms of like reading it for everyone else. Okay. I thought way too much about what would the idol holder do and what I think is really hard about this is that as a bluff like Sam as a bluff I'm gonna try and explain this my thought because it was late at night if it's a bluff and if she has an idol and she's working with Sam they will do the same thing so that's what makes it tough if Sam's gonna say she doesn't have an idol because she does and they wanted to rico ricochet, she should say, you know, I don't have the idol. I'm a sitting duck so that it ricochets.

But also she does have the idol and is a sitting duck. But you also want to say that if you're bluffing, I think in the hope that they think that's too obvious. So it's very much like they know we don't they don't know. We know we know we know from friends that is really really hard to pass out um Genevieve isn't doing any of this she genuinely is caught out by Sam and Teenie and is genuinely telling Teenie I'm you know I'm I'm a sitting duck and I think Teenie reads that genuineness really well to be like it's fake and Teenie's got actually is right on that but then I also don't judge Rachel and Sue for being like no I think it's real because again if

it is real that's exactly what Genevieve should be doing and would be saying so it's really really difficult to like bluff an idol at five where you want the votes on you you know you're going to be safe negating things is actually great like Sue doesn't negate anything you want to get the votes and get your target out especially when the option is sam who genevieve will talk about genevieve doesn't want sam to go so genevieve would do the same thing and i think that that makes it really really tough because you can't like last week genevieve bluffing the idol was not what an idol holder would do but this week genevieve saying i don't have the idol is what an idol holder would do but genevieve also doesn't have the idol and it's also what a non-idol holder would do in the hope that you think it's too

obvious that you put votes so am I making sense because I spun myself around like I was on that plane to Canada but I think you might make it make sense to me no you make sense and that's why they were so turned around that's why exactly the topic of conversation that entire day it's very confusing. And all you can do is say like, I'm this close. I don't want to make a mistake. So a few days ago, you might've been like, no, screw it. Let's vote for her.

And it would have been a few discussions had. This time, it's the entire day that you guys just cannot stop talking about it because it's the end of the game. I'm not going to sit here and make a mistake right now, especially with something like this. And I think I almost criticized Sam at the beginning for telling Tini, because like he said, when you want something to go around camp, you just tell Tini. And I'm like, but she's been so off about things. Is that the effective way to go about it? Because if she comes back, just like it literally what happens, Sue and Rachel are like, nah, I don't think so. Like, nah. And i genuinely think that's because

it's coming from teeny if it had come or if sam had pulled one of them aside they might still question him because they're on opposing sides they're not that close but if he was really desperate wanted to make sure he was staying in the game and genevieve went instead i always think to myself i want to go to somebody who's really going to take me seriously. I've done it myself where I warned another person that their partner was going to possibly go home. And they went back, told that person, they're like, holy crap. I think that she's telling the truth because of the channels I went through. If I had went to that individual first, they would have been like, girl, we don't talk. Like, that's weird. I don't know about this. A lot of questions. But because of the path I took,

it was way more effective. So I think the path is what caused all those questions, which is good for Genevieve, you know, but at the end of the day, still went home. But yeah, I was just questioning the path he took to make sure it was on her and not him um I think there could have been a more effective path but I I honestly can understand why they were so so turned around why you were so turned around because I was thinking the same thing this isn't day five where you can kind of regroup tomorrow and have the knowledge of what it looks like when a person fits or when a person is lying when you can really look at somebody and know based on evidence after a tribal council this is what they look like when

they're lying this is how they act afterwards we can make a more effective and fact-based choice where at that point in time it's like oh my god i don't know i i don't know yeah so yeah i totally understand yeah even from then do you know what i thought time, it's like, oh my god, I don't know. I don't know. So yeah, I totally understand. Even from then, do you know what I thought was crazy? It's like, she and Sam have to turn on each other here, but like, I also think they didn't even seem to want to. Like, they should want to turn on each other,

you know, even if they have the idol, she should want Sam to go home. And I thought that was crazy to me. And that's funny because all I could think was, after Teenie went up to her because this was still on the island she said Sam told me your idol was fake I would have went into like rampage mode and been like okay what can I do with this to make sure he goes home and I feel like we didn't get that or at least we didn't see it because I'm like oh my god you know that he's

trying to secure his place in the game like anybody else he beat you to the punch though like what you weren't really turning on him you hadn't done anything we at least didn't see her making an attempt to make sure the vote wasn't on her he did it first he pulled that trigger first and it feels like she kind of was like you know all right cool well I'm like girl I would have been like nah Sam's lying and you know like at least do or no maybe he's telling the truth to make you know them kind of question it but yeah well you're kind of desperate because you have an idol you're definitely safe right so like yeah it's like so hot yeah yeah I I wondered what that was about too because I thought to

myself she kind of seemed like yeah teeny it is fake like you know whatever and yeah I would have been like nah she's she's full of it but I was very much surprised that she wasn't shocked by the fact that Sam told um and maybe she's like yeah I get it it's the end of the game you want to kind of save yourself but I thought there would have been action after that they seemed kind of just like it was a secret scene actually was there I didn't see it was a really it I retweeted it and Sam tweeted it it was a really good secret scene just everyone just google survivor 47 episode 13 secret scenes and oh my god I know it's a bit hard for the internationals but yeah it was a really cute um secret scene where they kind of are like

well I guess we have to go against each other I mean they have to go against each other at the point where she's not immune Rachel's going out anyway but it's just more I think that they should want to go against each other because the person you're trying to get out at four so you're saying if you if you if they worked if they had an idol and they were trying to idol out like a teeny then they're saying that they're looking to sit next to each other which i think would be a big mistake so but the whole like bluff would hinge on that which was lucky because that seems to be what they actually wanted to do so it was believable anyway i feel like i've been on a plane for 25 hours but i will the one more thing on this and then i want to talk about sam was that teeny actually after 30 seconds in the voting booth or minutes seemingly um voted for sam and i think said

on twitter that it was a split vote um which i i buy i don't think it makes sense as a split vote for the reasons that i will explain and i think will make sense which is that this is a one vote split vote so it only works if sam is with you and genevieve like they're all voting for genevieve you're one vote for sam genevieve votes for satini but the reason that doesn't work is that if Sam is with you he's telling the truth that the idol is fake so you don't need a split vote and if Sam isn't with you and it's a bluff and there's two of them then your one vote split vote doesn't work you will lose two to one when Genevieve plays it I think that makes sense but hard on the island but I don't understand how the split vote makes sense yet for me personally yeah okay I don't know how in the weeds people are getting

with this but I'm on that um I a couple of things before we talk about Sam's game and then get to the chizzy Genevieve at six is there a world here where Genevieve should use Rachel as a shield and say hey Rachel Sue we have the numbers with the vote block at six. Let's vote out. I mean, I think a Sam or maybe an Andy, I guess. But I probably would say a Sam so that hopefully Rachel's a shielded five. So Genevieve doesn't need to win out. Thoughts on that? Yeah, I think. Could it be possible? Yes. But I think it really all depends on their relationship because I mean they said themselves that they're Harry Potter and Voldemort you know I love that neither can

live while the other survives I think it's really millennial core yeah but they as a professional professional 30 something year old women I'm loving well I don't know if I'm professional as I sit here talking about Survivor but in theory I love it and like yeah my thing I almost think that speaks to their working relationship because Harry Potter and Voldemort don't work together they don't have a moment where they kind of stop and say no yeah like we're okay we can kind of do this together and then go back at it that would be a fascinating Harry Potter book though yeah honestly Harry Potter and the one where he teams up with Voldemort like wow just throwing it out there out of nowhere yeah that'd be crazy it would have been crazy but for her to use that example

that instantly told me while they respect each other nah there's no way I mean Kirby and Ferris can even be like okay you know what I'm saying? Exactly. Is there a world? Yeah. But is that world now? No, because they already have agreed. They laugh about it. They say these things where they're just like, nah, if there was if one of them might. My thing is, I don't think either one of them would have proposed it. I think if one of them had the other may have been like holy crap everybody knows we're pretty much rivals they would never see this coming Sue's loyal to you Rachel you know like I think that would be sick we could do this and flip

you know Andy would be out you know in the woods and wouldn't even know what's going on Sam would be blindsided Teenie is here there would she you know would you be able to pull her in because you don't probably want to lie to her but um and that's a great if she ends up on the jury a great juror vote because you didn't blindside her in the same way that andy had you know in the past so i think there's a world if somebody would have taken that first step i don't think either one of these women would have done it because of the way they talk about each other yeah I also I think for me there is such a respect that you would think that they could work together on it the issue for me is that they're not good shields for each other because they're mostly just competing against each other in immunity so like so firstly I

actually don't think that Rachel is a shield for Genevieve I think that Genevieve still goes over Rachel at five if there's a choice, maybe not on the fire capability. So maybe there's a shield there. But the other thing is that they're each other's biggest immunity competitor. So if you keep Rachel, you're actually less likely to an immunity, which at that point is Genevieve's path. And, you know, well, Rachel is doing anything

to keep her idol at six. And also Rachel had an idol, so Genevieve didn't know that. So Rachel would have been a really bad shield. But without knowing that, I think that you you kind of want to beat each other at immunity like Rachel's not a shield to you when she's taken your immunity and is immune and can't even be voted for and now like definitely Genevieve's out so I do get taking Rachel out the path for Genevieve is just winning out and that cleared that the best but I do think it's an interesting thought because obviously Genevieve's going to go at five and like anything to try and protect so that she didn't have to win.

But yeah, I just don't, obviously with the idol, it wouldn't have come off. And I don't know, even without knowing that if, you know, there's enough there, if Rachel's not an immunity threat, but it's like an otherwise threat and maybe a fire threat and they figure out at five, I do think there's something there, but not with her challenge prowess. And then the last thing I want to talk about before we get to the Chizzy is

Sam, Sam, who I've given a 10% chance to win, who I think is second most likely to win over Rachel. Where do we see his game? Do you think he could beat Rachel? How high are you on Sam as a player? I think there's a possibility. I always think, I say, never say never. There's always a possibility for anyone as long as they can argue. Right. And. Oh, my gosh. I would say he can at least argue in a way because he hasn't been like an ally of her.

So there's nothing overly tying each other, you know, like intertwining their games where you're like, can you differentiate yourself from this person in the way that, you know, we saw Caroline and Sue. I don't know. I just, I think Rachel literally would have it in the bag against anyone. So I don't want to discount his game. I just know and have recognized a lot more about hers that I'm like, what could you really say?

Unless she fumbles the bag and gets tongue tied, which even if she does, the jury probably recognizes a lot of things that she's done without even having to tell them. So I don't want to discount his game, but I honestly don't have like a really good answer for that question. Well, I think that with him, his game is quite imperceptible. You know, that's a word. Yeah, yeah. I think so. His target as a threat has been so interesting to me. Like we talked about this earlier in the season

when there was a bit of like what Stephen calls hot bias. I call the patriarchy, this aura. He had a good pre-merge but he fell off quickly other people have had great pre-merges you think of like a Romeo Romeo didn't get to coast on that you know as a threat through to to the finale um so in some ways I think the archetype is tough and in some ways he has to wear having the aura of a threat that made him that limited him in many ways you know Rachel had that but also I think like actively kind of went under at times like really like won allies and that wanted to work with her through the mid-game and then when she did become a threat earn that through what she was doing and protected

it well like she had to make good on it by having these things that would make her a target but that also protected her and she did it I think that it's a little more a little bit well it's again she's in the situation herself but she's controlling that and defending it really well. Sam is a threat kind of beyond what he's capable of just on archetype, but it's unable to control it. It's unable to get, you know, kind of back from it. And then when he stops being a threat, it's less of a win like for Rachel, it's like, okay, you are a threat, but you've protected, you've won your own protection on idols,

on immunity wins. For for sam it feels like when he gets through it's because people choose other threats over him you know coming into this episode even coming off the loss of operation italy jeff is like rachel is the biggest threat so now rachel and genevieve are the big threats to the point where i'm like how was sam even an option over genevieve last week but she seems like such a bigger threat and he becomes a bigger threat people are choosing to let him through rather than him being a threat, but assuring his own safety, which I think is more impressive for Rachel. So I think the kind of like lack of control of that is hard in saying that,

like, I do think he, like, I think Rachel would be a solid winner. I think he would be a slightly less solid, but still solid winner. I'd rank him probably just below her on new era winners. Like I might put, you know, I might put Rachel like, you know, above Kenzie and I put Sam like below Kenzie, but they're all kind of in this like three to four to five range for me. But yeah, I do give more to Rachel. I think she's had higher highs when they both had gaps and everyone in this

class, as I've said, has not been perfect, which has made it so, so compelling. They've outplayed each other at different times she outplays them at six he's outplayed her at seven and in the pre-merge um the guard of three who were all together on the beach are so fascinating to me um and I so I do think there's stuff there she hers isn't a perfect game to his terrible game they're both solid game with gaps but I think that she has more and yeah at the point where she's been such a threat if she gets to the end with anyone including Sam I think that it is done yeah and I think I really like your point about people choosing other threats over him there is such a difference and such a

delicate balance where you want to tone down your threat level or like Rachel defend against it yeah versus putting yourself and lowering that threat level so much that people are like no not even worried about that person now you've gone too far um and that that is such a delicate balance so hard and like you said I mean even teeny kind of hit on it I can't remember exactly the comment she made but you know kind of like a frat guy walking around like this this and that he did not enjoy that yeah and he can't control the way he looks you know but then he he's toned down his threat level so much that at least you know we see where people are making those choices to be like we're not even worried about

him now that's a concern you don't want to be such a threat that you're targeted every freaking tribal council but you don't want to turn it down so much that you end up in the finale people are like dude what happened to you like I think I remember a little bit here I wasn't even on your tribe so I don't know what you did before but we're not really worried about pre-merge we're worried about post-merge when we were together when all this craziness was going on how did you play a part in that so he might just have to be worried about that well you know we talk about like he can't control how he looks right like that's a threat level that got away from him that he couldn't get back and then like even when

it was diminished that was like a bad thing it's like now other people are above you compared to someone you played with a winner in your season who is a big guy in mark wales and talked some really impressive stuff i think around minimizing that physically was like i will always sit low in the water and we've seen like i think like jeremy also talked about like being low you know like kind of like shrinking yourself when you're a bigger guy um i think that that's like some really advanced thinking again i don't think sam has managed that he wanted to be the wolf in wolf's clothing and i think i mean i guess it kind of was but he wanted to be the glue guy he wanted to be more under the radar more of a surprising

pick and he couldn't protect how people just saw him and how limited that made like the early merge game for him um whereas like you played with someone like mark who i think did a lot of that really well so do you kind of see a difference there and like having played with someone like that who obviously goes on to win the game it's these little things that you don't know until the season is done or until you talk to that individual about the things that they did intentionally that you're like holy crap who would have thought like the human psyche changes I mean and Mark is like freaking I don't even know six foot six like he's a enormous guy military background he was so open about his military stories as well showing how strong he is yet physically like you said he would always sit low in the water when we would sit there and I'm holding

the flag I still remember this day it was I mean blistering heat out in Australia I was holding the flag and he was sitting down in the shade below me and I'm like looking down at him you know in the rocks and stuff and honestly he was tired, but I think that he was so intentional in every single moment. And that goes to show you when somebody's playing to win, not that Sam isn't, but when somebody's playing to win with experience, with thought.

Because Mark did it day in and day out, he didn't let up. That perception was solid from the beginning. You never saw him change all of a sudden. Where I'm like, this dude is towering over me constantly. He was very aware of what he looked like, what his occupation was, and he didn't hide from it. He just changed the way it was presented to everyone. And if Sam wins, Sam doesn't win, he comes to another season, ever has another opportunity, whether it's on Survivor or somewhere else.

He comes to another season, ever has another opportunity, whether it's on Survivor or somewhere else. I bet you he's going to have a completely different mindset about how to approach when others perceive him just based on his looks. Mark dealt with it once and adapted. Unfortunately, it had to be between seasons. And at this point, we're in Final Four. So for Sam, if he ever comes back again, it's going to be the same for him between seasons. But if somebody had told him that ahead of time and been like, bro, you know, do these things, do that, we would have seen a different Sam.

And that perception wouldn't have been there. But I just have to give Mark props because when I was watching it back and when he would tell me the things that he would do on purpose, I'm like, dude. That's cool. You are insane. And the fact that you can follow

through, those are the impressive people, the people who, no matter how many 47 days, this isn't 26, you know, this isn't 10, five, four, three, two, one, 47 days. He stuck to it every single day. He didn't let up. He made sure that he was aware of everything he did because of his physical attributes that he couldn't control those are the winner type people and so I you know good luck to Sam for winning but that's one of those things that he'll have to just learn for hopefully next time he plays if he does yeah I think that the the threat level and like his target got away from him in a way that I don't think he was actively protecting. I think that, to me, is the biggest difference between his, you know, game compared to Rachel, which is, like, you know, when Sierra goes, okay, there's some stuff where he has, like, a relationship with Genevieve where she's maybe protecting him and, like, those are his relationships.

But mostly, I think, they choose Sierra. And I think he's not in control of that. And it's dicey. You know, I think that for other reasons, as we've discussed with Andy, Rachel chooses Andy over Sam. Sam could have gone there. They're a part where I think he's not in control and it's just seen as a lesser threat than people, or it's like a tweener for them. And like, he's like at their mercy. Whereas I think when Rachel was a big threat,

every time she's protected herself to kind of get out of that situation. I think that that is quite a big disparity but i still think he'd be a solid winner i mean i think rachel's obviously had the flash the idol i think that's high highs i think the biggest thing for sam that would be really cool is if he wins that is on the back of operation italy which he had a huge part in was dead to rise was going home before that happened um and then they shifted obviously to put the primary on genevieve but he was the target there and what they wanted. And if they pulled it off and then to win from that would really be like the crowning move.

I think the best moment of the season would then like, you know, turn into the win. Obviously Rachel was blindsided by it. So that wouldn't really be a good part of the winning story, but let's talk about the Chibi much like the, the kind of season coverage, like the confessionals, much like the the kind of season coverage i'm like the the confessionals much like the um the gameplay it's really kind of even at the top so i'm excited about it so take it away

jacob segawai and mc color one two three right here are the cheesy charts nina three two and one points for the best players this episode i want you to go first because i'm honestly still really torn on my one point so i need to see how it plays out three two and one for this episode um because i think the three is easy for me but otherwise i think when one person so clearly three no i can't i don't know my one point i think for me because here's here's my thing this is my thing for the chizzy rachel's gonna get six points and i kind of want to even out everyone else around her because like you know no one else deserves three points really like i mean i guess sue i think

well talk about sue was like part of the plan but like when four people are telling rachel to her face you're going home and she's going to outplay them to that degree should they get like half the points that she does like i think that they there's things here for like genevieve even for andy who they both go home um for sam who might like get a point for me but i don't think people deserve much more to rachel six the scale is wrong she should be like you know on like 20 compared to everyone else for this episode so I kind of want to game it a little bit so what do what are you thinking let's we can talk it out if you want which is not how this um three to Rachel I feel like of course like that's just a given um two and one across the board it's very tough because Andy goes yeah I mean like what am I

thinking is like Andy goes but recovers so well from Operation Italy and Operation Italy ends up like getting teeny over as a number like that's all impressive to me there's like a lot of bad but then like in the conversation but there's so much good before it. So I'm actually considering it. Genevieve for me, I'm considering it because after Genevieve sent home Sol, I was like, I'll probably give her points every week that she survives because she shouldn't survive. And then I really haven't done that because I felt like it was more

on kind of everyone else's decisions. But when you like win an immunity at six, the fact that Genevieve in ways through Operation Italy and then through like the pathway she's found through immunity at six gets herself to five I actually think is incredibly impressive I think her reward picks were fair you know it was quite essential to get Sue over even though they don't um you know Teenie is a bit of a swing there it does obviously give Teenie the opportunity to blab and it doesn't give like a great like if it was like Andy and Teenie I think the three of them

at the reward maybe could like really kind of cement a plan but there was no big plan I think they're the swings I think the reward choices are fine I think Genevieve I'm strong on that first part of the episode and then Sam obviously has a pathway to win sells out Genevieve which is essential but obviously more out of necessity does survive through on a viable path but if not if not for andy is actually gone at six so i actually don't i have to say just because we're talking about this episode only i can't see myself giving andy a point last episode he would have gave him three this one he did go home um and it's because he he like you said they they got complacent. They started dishing out things where I'm like, dude, no, don't do it. So I cannot give Andy any points for this episode. Last episode, absolutely. I would have given him all of them. But I would say Rachel three, two, two, because without her, honestly, just wouldn't have happened that way. in the way um and then for the one point I I think I want to give it

to Sam because I felt like he saw an opportunity whether to confuse them or not to confuse them and he still took it teeny like you said I just feel like she got turned around way too much where I'm just like I I don't it was it felt indecisive it wasn't decisive she was in the booth but you know like it was just too indecisive for me Rachel knew what she was doing she was down she this is the plan done Sue was on board ready to go that number one that she needed to make sure that everything went well and he's gone he was blabbing too much Genevieve I would put I would give Sam the point over Genevieve just because he saw an opportunity first and was just trying something he was like I just need to try something so that's going to be my decision across just because it's a two-hour episode we have two yeah which is actually way more interesting I find that giving these points out

versus in one episode we have a little bit of the before and after so I feel like you know Sam was like on board here blindsided by the whole Andy thing but adapted boom right here tried something so I would rather give him a point so it's three Rachel two Sue one Sam I definitely get that I think for me I'm giving three to Rachel two to Sue again where's the path it's on loyalty but she did she was essential to this plan um and then yeah I mean I think it's like if I look at six which I think is the biggest vote of the of the episode so I'm waiting it it a little bit more. Sam was gone.

Like they were all telling people to her face and Sam was gone and Andy buries himself, but that's not anything that Sam did. Whereas Genevieve protected herself to get from soul to get through to five. I think she earned that. And I think that that is important for me. Yeah. I think that again, like correct reward choices. It's not her fault that teeny was giving a lot of information and was working out like she did bluff that idol through it you know an episode and a half basically um at that point obviously Sam has

to out it I think Sam kind of he did it well but he did what you should do like you should definitely add it at that point and he achieves it but he's also coming from a space where Genevieve's a bigger threat and he has more space than her I don't know you know and maybe that's Genevieve's fault for the way she's you know made herself a threat but I think that's been criticized enough I think getting to five with that threat level in ways was earned especially here and I want to give her the point which is interesting because it means the charts are that Genevieve's on 25 Sam is now on 22 andy left on 19 soul left on 18 tinny's on 13 or rachel's actually jumped up to 19 um sue is now on 13 caroline left on 11 and then rome 7 gabe 4 carl 3 tiana and asia 1

but here's where we stand on the chizzy charts if rachel wins next week she will tie with genevieve which on 25 which i do and she gets if she has a great win which is what I'm expecting she would tie with Genevieve so that would be 25 points um and they would tie which would feel right for me and I'd love it um then but Sam's now on 22 so if he gets three points next week he could tie if he wins the game he'll almost definitely win the chizzy because he it's unless he wins terribly um he probably get six points he could come second and and get four points and win the chizzy or he could also tie we could have a three-way tie and um a year ago um when d and drew tied we thought what do we do in chizzy ties um everyone wins everyone wins and we um we send everyone mugs rob sends mugs. So that is what will happen.

So it's very, very close. Like the season might seem done, but the Chizzy is in a very exciting place. So that's where we're at. A part of me, because during the Chizzy, we do, if there's two guests, we do two one-one points instead of three-two-one. And we have better ones or worse ones.

Part of me feels like, should I be counting out? We've got more better ones and break the tie like that? But it's fine. We made a decision where everyone would win if they all tied on points and it might be a three-way tie. And I would enjoy that a lot. So that's where we're at. Nina, thank you so much. This was really, really fun. This was, it was great to break down the episode with you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. We had a question from Jacob Yoon who said, Nina's already an international survivor legend will she ever be on US Survivor do you think about this now that you've been on US TV you've been on Australian Survivor I think we combine those things call me please yeah have they not called

really that's disrespectful I know and I'm like that's so rude Like I'm a survivor child. I've now been international. Like why not have a first Australian player bounce? You know what I'm saying? And I'm American. You are American. It's a win-win. You know what I'm saying? Like, come on guys. But yeah, I mean, much like Sandra was a win-win, you know, but I think as well, my, one of my favorite quirks of like the strangeness of Australian Survivor casting is that like you are a two-time Australian Survivor player and you just simply are not Australian like it's great it's so great yeah and I love the fact that I've played

like over 60 something days and I'm like the average Survivor player nowadays I mean the average Survivor player no matter what has never even gone over 30 how many days how many days have you played uh 66 more than getting to new era seasons yeah like i i that's great i absolutely love that that i'm just like no one's laughing that never comes. But I'm just like, I played more days than the average, even if they play to even if they play. No, maybe three or two and a half times. Yeah. Like I still play more data than that. So I'm like, come on, dude, you guys have seen me make it to final five in 44 days.

Like, imagine what I could do with 26. And I will say something that I'm really proud of, not only winning the anonymous, but having that aspect of only playing a game for 24 days with 15 people, like it's not 26, but kind of feeling that every day someone goes home kind of motion that you don't get an Australian survivor, that insanity is so, so much more stressful than I thought it would be considering I had a shower and food and water whenever I wanted, um, and not being wet and bugs. And anyways, um, I found that way more draining emotionally than any day on survivor. Um, I had my lows, don't get me wrong, but throughout I was like, wow, this is crazy. So I would love to do a 26 day. I keep pointing this way. Cause the camera's

opposite, um, survivor, but I want to be on a theme survivor. Like, can we bring the themes back? I know I want to be on a theme survivor, but either way, I would just appreciate the call to be honest with you and the opportunity they didn't do me for they didn't pick me for David versus Goliath so they've been interested before yeah I'm like guys they're come on now you should be more interested now well they well they seem like down on the internationals and other shows like they're like don't don't spread the wealth which I've never really understood you would think like this is good like let's get viewers in who might know them from other spaces or if they play on other games like maybe that'll refer them back to

survivor but it seems like they're very possessive around what their players or potential players do and have been on which doesn't make sense to me which is my thing i would love to be like the first player as well that's like elsewhere, other shows and even networks. But based on what I know, what I've heard, what I've seen, that might not happen. And even if it does, probably not for me. They would probably find somebody a little bit more massive to bring in a lot more viewers. But I'm like, please. And then shoot in Australia so I can get flown out over there because I miss it so much.

But well, that would be unlikely. I know, yeah. I'm waiting for the call. I hope it comes one day. And if it doesn't, I wouldn't change a thing because my time on Australian Survivor was so amazing. The amount of friends, the people that I've been able to meet and chat with because of it, I wouldn't change a thing. And I would have never been on The Anonymous without it. But I would love to. And, I mean's amazing as we all know and we love to talk about yeah I don't know why they hate cross promotion I think that it only makes more sense from a

marketing perspective but I do think one day we just need we need a couple of Boston Rob and Amber's kids to age up and do Survivor's Genestea that would be so epic though that would be like that would be so cool I mean I feel like Jared feels that already. We already like did that with Big Brother. I don't know how high people feel about that coming back. But there's got to be, like there's a second generation,

surely, of Survivor legendary kids, right? Has to be at this point. I mean, it's been off for 24 years. So, yeah. And people are always talking and crying about their kids on there. So, yeah. Let's see the people

they were crying about now play. And then the loved ones visit would be ridiculous. Like it would literally just be all the parents coming out. I'd be like, don't bring her. Don't, don't do it. Oh my God. The topic of conversation would be insane. I'd be like, I've already got the target off my back, please.

Or I've already got one. Yeah. Yeah. I would totally do it. That'd be sick. That'd be so fun. Well, Nina, thank you so much. Tell the people where they can find you.

You've been on TV one something once this year. Who knows what more? Well, I feel like it's a year weird. Anyway, who knows what else is coming up for you? So where can people find you? Yeah, mostly on Instagram, honestly, at Nina underscore untwined. Amazing.

Well, you can find me at shannon gates um this has all been on youtube but i guess it's too late now to end the podcast we're on youtube every every week uh this season um follow me subscribe to the international swiper hop ups feed a couple of things for me firstly if you didn't listen to the wand off firstly how dare you i put in a bit of a hamilton inspired song there about an hour and a half in if anyone wants to check that out next week for the finale I've got the great Jacques coming on from South Africa we'll talk about if Rachel pulls it off or devastatingly doesn't and my draft goes up in tatters so fingers across for Rachel because her win will be shared with me and we're going to be

podcasting about Wicked the movie which is which is very fun. That's coming up. So a lot of things happening. Follow me for all of that. But Nina, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you as well to all the listeners. Thank you to our team behind the scenes. And I will see you for the finale next week. Bye.

Australian. Survivor. Survivor. Survivor. Survivor. 21 South African 12. Ordinary Australian. Just stay New Zealand. Give me the swammer. Survivor.