RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: Journey Decisions and The Trouble with the Modern End Game | S47 Ep 11 with Nick Iadanza

Episode Date: November 29, 2024

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss talks to Australian Survivor All Star Nick Iadanza about Survivor 47 episode 11, including the journey decisions, the pathways and problems with the modern end game, challenge math, memes and more.

Say hello to Tim's Selects, Tim's everyday value menu. Enjoy the new spinach and feta savory egg pastry or our roasted red pepper and Swiss pinwheel starting at only $2.99 plus tax. Try one or try our full Tim's Selects lineup. Terms apply. Prices may vary at participating restaurants in Canada. It's time for Tim's. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long.

From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk, an authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. TD Direct Investing offers live support. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. Clear your schedule for you time with a handcrafted espresso beverage from Starbucks.

Savor the new small and mighty Cortado. Cozy up with the familiar flavors of pistachio or shake up your mood with an iced brown sugar oat shaken espresso. Whatever you choose, your espresso will be handcrafted with care at Starbucks. This winter,

take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines. Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there. All Porter fares include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy australian 21 South African 12 ordinary Australians

1 million pounds Hello everyone and welcome to RHAP's coverage of Survivor 47 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shannon Goss. We're getting here early because all the Americans are celebrating Thanksgiving and the only things that I have to give is to have an episode of Survivor to talk about my wonderful guest. He is the original, no original original did i say that right no it was doing great already you can be proud he's the reason we are all here he's an australian survivor all-star my wonderful friend nick idanza nick thank you for being here shannon i'm so excited to be here on video no less yeah there is a 6.2 chance that my kids are going to interrupt

this podcast yes that would be really bad that's pretty exactly that you know andy wanted to trust those odds 6.2 is pretty good um yes yeah i'm doing good i'm doing good i have just had my appendix out so i've got scars and i've been on so many painkillers i've just had surgery no uh and i apologize because i sent you a contextless photo yes of just me in a hospital bed this is what actually this is it's such a good lesson for the for the listeners like it's that's not a good way to deliver news to someone to be like the message i sent was hey how are you are you still good for next week i get a picture of you in a hospital bed

no context i didn't enjoy that well i didn't like that introduction then shortly after probably like 10 minutes later you tell me what had happened but like don't like i feel like there are some things that need context and a picture what happened was my another friend had just asked the same thing and i'd sent them the photo of me and it was like surprise uh no and they explained but i'm totally fine but when i i went to go copy and paste that with the with the context but i only i only pasted the photo oh i thought you were just being a menace no no oh my god in the context right it's like one of those like attention seeking people that's like yeah photo of their like wristband when they're in hospital on social literally no okay okay i know

just trying to worry me on purpose and then to be fair like 10 minutes later you did follow it up but i was like who would do this like i wasn't enjoying okay that makes way more sense i was on so many painkillers like okay i wasn't that was like fented and this so yeah okay all right yeah who knows what i was i should probably actually go back and check through my sent messages because there's probably like i probably did it to another 10 or so people yes okay that anyway i'm good though i'm good i'm excited to be here you're not good you just had surgery what does it good even mean like that's not look it's fine it was you know appendectomy not great could have been worse could have been worse yes that's our thanksgiving you're okay um your kids might interrupt this

podcast otherwise we're doing great and that would be great that would be great then they're just on the podcast by the way Paloma wants to come on here and be a star my cats do it all the time she is welcome but she's gonna be in the podcast so and we've had it before we've done it this season so yes um Nick you were saying that you've been off social media and what an incredible thing for you but you said you're kind of like you're kind of like not unspoiled that's not the right word but like untainted on the season like you've just been watching it kind of in your own little bubble okay so not entirely off social media like after the election I was like devastated with the results so I just was like took myself completely

off social media I was just like I have been so in on social media in the lead up to this thing and I was just like you know what this is not good for my better health well you're such an adult i felt the same way but i just kept doom scrolling so that's the no no i deleted instagram and twitter off my phone not like i didn't actually delete my accounts but i deleted them completely and i was just like i was just wasting so much time and yes only recently i was like do you know what what? I'm going to try out Blue Sky. And I started a Blue Sky account, which has been way more interesting and way more fun. But it has meant that I feel quite tapped out of the community,

the discourse, and that's kind of refreshing every once in a while. I don't really know what people think about this season. I don't know what people think about some people. Some of the noise has kind of cut through. Early on I was on Twitter a lot, but I feel pretty unencumbered by other people's kind of viewpoints. Which is great. If I say things that seem to be going against conventional logic,

please let me know what the prevailing winds are saying. Well, what are your major thoughts? So my major thoughts are that this is a very strange season for me because and again other people might have said this you tell me that i really like everyone the exact same amount right except gabe i really didn't like gabe sorry gabe but so i I appreciated his enthusiasm and what he brought, but, like, just not, you know, it didn't gel with my vibe, I don't think, right? But everyone else I have liked at the exact same level. I don't care for Gabe.

Literally that quote. No one that I'm like, yes, this person is, like, the best survivor I've ever seen, and no one is like, I hate this person, get him off my screen. It's literally just been like, I am enjoying all of this. And no matter who wins out or who loses, I'm feeling really happy about this season. So that's been a very unique thing.

I genuinely cannot think of another season that that has ever happened with me. Has anyone else said something similar? I don't feel super dissimilar to that. I think I like everyone. I feel like if there's a word for this season for me, and we'll see how it goes, and I want to talk about it. But please, no. I was going to say a different C word.

Consistency. Oh, Shannon. Oh, okay. I'm not that Australian. Yeah, I mean, I think the cast is consistent consistently good but like if you think about it compared to like 44 where I feel like it was like the Tika's were like an all-time kind of character and I do think that this is great characters maybe Andy's the one who kind of stands up but it's like yeah everyone's like consistently very good but I don't know that

you have like the cues or you know the even like Marianne like there's a you know Carolyn obviously um and then like from an episode perspective I've also said I feel it's consistent consistent like this was probably a little bit of a snoozer compared to some of the others but I do I know right you brought me on for the snoozer what are you doing I did it on purpose that we could just chat you know unencumbered by the actual show um I was like look you had your appendix out surely you just want to chill and not like you know re-rupture an appendix that's no longer in your body by like ranting about something right that's how medicine works that's how the body works i mean i feel like there's no one episode that hugely stands out like compared to like 46 which was i felt like

so bad and so good um that's what i've said about the season and i still believe that to be true but i am a little bit worried about where i could go and that sounds like a weird thing to say because i like everyone who's in power and i think we're setting up for a winner i'm going to like regardless yes i really like the cast but i just feel like this season is such a great example and this is like my major takeaway from the episode of like if you are going to shore up the end game in such a clear way which jeff has done over years trying to get the result that he wants by making it a final three and then making final four fire and having no pure rounds the thing that you want to do is objectively in like if there's no emotions if you're ai optimized

which andy ironically says they're not but they kind of are in this season, that the smart, savvy players who know, okay, we are the ones who- I swear I'm savvy. Did you say swear I'm savvy? Oh no, please, please, jump scare. The savvy players, if they can get a majority, especially if one of them has an idol,

the top of this group has an idol to go to five, should go in a group of four or a group of five to get the majority to take out the people that will beat them at the end and that's what this five are doing and i feel like this type of modern not even new era but like modern end game allows for that um in a way that's really really clear people are still using that really well but it's a forced path for me where like if there's a final two this five can't come together to do the like mutually incentivized thing as i said it's all to our benefit they can't do that because it's like okay we can't just go to the end with sue and andy like we'll get cut off three four five now it's like we can go to the final five and then like battle it out on a final

immunity challenge into fire into a final three and like why would they not all do that it's so clear and to me it just shows how restricted the modern end game is. And if the next two rounds are like Jen and Sam and some combination, and it might not be, but it should be for all five, then it will show how that incentive leads to these forced outcomes because the format is homogenous compared to what it can be, I think.

Isn't this the, is that always like all the new eras that haven't led to this scenario so like you can't say because that is true yes you just because this one time I think am I defending the new era no it's a very fair point um it hasn't happened to this extreme I think it's always the optimal strategy the amazing thing about survivors people do not do what is optimal because emotions and alliances and all of these other things but yes if you can always work out who will beat you at the end you should always take out the people who will beat you at the end and if you can go into basically not not a final two anymore not a final three but pretty much a final four is how you it's the last votes at the

final five you should always have a final four group who start taking out the people who are bigger threats at the final seven now this season is unique for two reasons that i think blow that out to its extreme to show how homogenous it can be like at its most extreme the first being that rachel has an idol so i would think the one who maybe shouldn't do this or shouldn't who should be less incentivized to do it is the person on top of that group who will be taken out fifth but rachel doesn't have to think about that as much because she's more protected she could also win some final puzzle challenges so she's like uniquely placed to make this a five meaning they could have shorted up at nine it even gives an additional person the other thing is that within all the emotion and the things that make survivor murky

and hard and not optimized like this group is so optimized like these are super fans who know what to do and yes a new era pair like modern end game format with these smart savvy players and especially here where i said like the teenies the andys the rachel these are like rjp fans the caroline so smart they like five know what to do and are like uniquely placed to do it and we can talk about it from all their perspectives but i think that that is the strategy every time it's just that people aren't going to do what's optimal. This is an optimal group we're going to lean into a format that allows it at its most. And I think shows the pitfalls of that by being as extreme as it is.

But it is definitely like the extreme version of that. But I think shows a general tendency that could always be incredibly concerning from a structure standpoint. But is it also like extremely concerning like it's only happened like you wouldn't say that soul was like this huge threat it was just having the last two votes but will like again and i don't know if they're going to do it but like i think they should take out jen and sam next yes okay so if it continues yeah if it continues yeah yeah and it's what they you know in many ways that's old school Survivor though, right? You get your group, you stick together, you don't move.

I know, it's so funny. It's got shadows of that. Isn't that what people want? They try so hard to prevent the begonging that they've gone so far around that all they've done is incentivize a begonging that's allowed. And this is the thing is that we get, you know, when I tweeted about this, I got some responses that were like, change it up because then they won't know what they can do you have a final two sometimes final three this is what australian survivor does and i don't agree with it because i think those

are often opposite strategies where you just bet on what you think it is you can't do both so you're like i'm gonna hope it's a final two i'm gonna bet on it and sometimes the bet is wrong and i don't think that that's why someone should lose basically just on luck of what they bet on i think that you people should be allowed to play optimally and not come down to luck in circumstance, but make the optimal path high. A final two is such a hard path. Like at one point, like getting through to, to just sit at two seats at the end, no fire to save you.

No, you know, pure rounds, like people with idols. It's tricky. Like it's, it's very, very fragile and it's very dynamic of how everyone can kind of place that and that's why things like goat hunting so re's goat hunting strategy that we heard about in this episode become relevant because you can't just let sue and andy get to the final two seats so you have to take a shot at some point but then how do they project against that and then we get into this kind of dynamic gameplay i think that the end game of the modern game has always been

just more homogenous and we're seeing that now and there are there are still hurdles but the hurdles are in these forced paths now the hurdles are the threats have fewer rounds to win out can they find trinkets can they protect themselves to get to the end and this is the duality between shoring it up of the quote-unquote underdogs which we'll talk about or them being beaten by no actually now sam has won out to the end and won and that's the kind of struggle but it's still like again quite a stagnant struggle versus in a final two it would be like well maybe we want to keep you know tony kept spencer around to the final four because you know and there was still time to take it so it's about keeping those stress and it's i think more dynamic so that's

where i see the struggle now that's where i see the pathway that it's on but i love that you will check me on like but is it so concerning that one episode was pretty down on it? But I do think it does speak to things I've complained about for a long time. So I just. It definitely does. It definitely does. And I get what you're saying. I wonder if the, you know,

this is something that I've been thinking about a lot recently is particularly with Australian survivor, that there should be – I've changed my tune. If you listen to the podcasts, a lot of podcasts I did from back in the day, excuse me, I would say, you know, people who don't know the show, what are they doing here? Maybe as a player it's really annoying, but, like, I think as a fan those people are needed.

And I think had a few more of those been sprinkled in, this conversation wouldn't even be happening because everyone is so hyper aware and so clever and such a super fan i think that is the factor beyond the other other parts of it because the the new era has the same setup that it's had for the last seven seasons and this hasn't occurred so yeah i do think that the casting like there should be a more like like ironically do you know you're talking about how it goes around in a circle and it's come back to the beginning i think with casting it's gone in attempts to be so diverse it's actually become so homogenous in terms of gameplay yeah yeah yeah so i think and i know that's well trodden territory but like that might be the answer to this.

And the thing is as well, but you can complain about any side of it and I do, and that's podcasting. Podcasting, you can complain about any side of it. Welcome to podcasting, everyone. If you have enough recruits and people who aren't playing in their self-interest, that's how you get like David winning in all stars because someone

can take all the sheep and be like the shepherd and everyone, not the Philip shepherd, but like the shepherd who will win and take ironically rob as an example and rob took the shepherd to be the shepherd i'm making sense um and you know be yes thank you um yeah to like you know lead these people who don't know as much but then you will get the keith nails who say stick to the plan and screw things up and like for me casting can go either way on that i think like versatility in casting um you know is always a good thing across the board i say that as i love this cast you know so for me it's more like give them a game that give optimal players the chance to play optimally but make it just so hard to play optimally and like pure survivor is so incredibly hard we've not solved it yet whereas like i feel like this structure is solved will people always

do it no but like they can and that's the solution like it's very clear so it's not it's not super concerning but it is there it's there to slightly worry about can we talk about the cast because there are so i know i said there's no one that i'm like oh my god you're the best but like i really love these people like i love andy andy i want it does andy to listen to this podcast because if he does like like, I want. I don't know. He definitely used to. I want Andy to know.

I want Andy to know that I love Andy. I just like love what he brings. I love the way he talks. I love the way he flips his hair. Everything about him. I'm just like, I am so in on Andy as like a person and as a human. And his story is just so fantastic. I do feel like we're getting so much of the show through his point of view.

Yeah. Like, is that like because he's going to get that growth story or is it because he's the winner? I mean, I'm super low on Andy's win chances this week compared to where I was last week. Last week I put him third and now I have him falling way out because Genevieve confirmed that she said general consensus and it is her. I wanted

to get into that. What does that mean? I want to know more about that. I have been really concerned personally about where Andy sits because he's always the one telling us how much he's doing and what we've heard from other people has been negative. Like Ciara, who's a juror as an example. And Genevieve

I think, you know, saying that there's general consensus, which I can't believe that Sue and Andy are the two goats. Really, I did not enjoy that for Andy. I was really concerned about that. So if that's the case, I think that the edit is just because Andy's journey

is like genuinely so compelling. So they're giving us that he's a great character. But yeah, I mean, and this is the thing about things being optimized because now it becomes, if you're Sue and Andy, you're so much the goat. You cannot let it just be run down to the end

because you will lose. So if it's optimized for Caroline and Teenie to try and get through a five and a four to win against them or Rachel to get through five with more protection to win, that's great. For Andy and Sue,

they should do more. So maybe there's a little bit of a lack of optimization there because Andy should do something to cut it up to drastically change that perception, but doesn't seem to know to do that because he seems to be like, I'm the spider in the web. And he thinks he's going to have a really good story to tell. But even with that, like for Andy, maybe is it sitting next to like a teeny and a Sue who have kind of not as much to say as well. And then making fire and differentiating kind of within that group i also think that's somewhat of a viable path but yes i mean if we're saying that sue and andy

are definitely going to lose at the end and they should do something now so that's where a little bit of like the lack of optimization i think comes in for this group but when andy like isn't his ghost status confirmed not confirmed but like added to by the fact that like the plan he tries to get off the ground tonight, this week, wasn't going to work. Like that was a bit of a non-starter. Yeah, but Rachel didn't work last time. And I think Rachel for me is like, I mean, she's in the best winner position right now. Like I think the same, like last week I said the same thing, which is like when they want these threats to go, Gabe or Genevieve, Kyle or Genevieve, does it really matter? Like, and we'll talk about it because it's the main kind of question

of the strategic episode. But like for me, I don't begrudge Andy for putting it forward. I see the pros and the cons. I do lean to Kyle going, but I'm also not like super mad at it. And I'm not super mad that he didn't get his way because I think it works for them to take out Kyle. I think it was all a valid discussion. Like, is it so bad?

It's not like a drastically different plan to a different one one it's two names that they said we all want to go in some order like they kind of just like yeah yeah off at this point what did you think Carl or Genevieve okay so I I had a really clear thought about what should happen from Sue and Caroline's idea from point of view um and tell me if this is more just like a kind of one of those crazy fan fiction things but they should have because sue has an idol right if they want to make sure that they are solidifying back together i feel like they needed some sort of plan that will kind of like reinforce that that they are together more than just their word and i really felt like they could have done something super duper cool here but they could have just said yeah okay let's go along with your plan andy because teeny at that

point would have gone okay well it's four against one all right i'll go along with it i don't like it but i'll go along with it or said to teeny yeah we are going to say we're going to go along with it but we're actually going to vote out, we're going to play our idol and we're going to save Genevieve and bring her in. Because I just feel like, I know it's crazy, but I just feel like this five is not, if you're so obviously a two in that five, because I believe that it's Rachel and Andy and Caroline and Sue and then

Teenie's in the middle. I feel like if I'm one of those twos, I'm worried that it's like a 50-50 chance when it comes down to it that Teenie's going to go with the other one and not me, right? So I think you need to make the move now while you've got people going and you can still have your cake and eat it too if you're Sue. What you want is Kyle out. You get Kyle out, you make it clear that everyone else is coming for Genevieve. Genevieve is so on the bottom. You save Genevieve even with your idol or, you know, just actually flipping the vote.

And you actually save her and you say, Genevieve, you are now with us 100% and we're going to take you to the end. You mitigate her power as a power player. She was someone who was saved by your mercy you've made this epic move sue's pulled out an idol her like threat level is now rising it won't rise high so high that she sticks her head all the way up but it'll definitely take her out of goat contention and now she's got this new group with teeny genevieve caroline sue and now the you know a seven they're they're a group of four yes teeny and genevieve don Caroline, Sue, and now the, you know, a seven, they're a group of four.

Yes, Tini and Genevieve don't get along that well, but I think it really, really pushes Rachel and Andy further down the pecking order and gets you out of a potentially dangerous situation at five. I don't think that five, this is the thing, this is why I think that the format is easy because five isn't as worrying as I think you're making it out to be. Like, I think that if I'm Rachel, I'm feeling worried because she's so clearly the biggest threat of that five, but she has an idol. Um, so maybe like they should be a little bit concerned

that Rachel is so keen to go to the five, but even then she wouldn't be, I think, turning on it early. So they have no real reason to suspect her. And if anything, you get so close. If I'm Caroline, I now think this is a great pathway for Caroline just to keep staying on this course. Now, yeah, Sue does need to do something. And Sue at this point is drawing dead. So Sue should be drastic with the idol.

Like Sue, I think saving Genevieve would be a lot. And I also think there's nothing to save. Like I think it was pretty clear cut Kyle. Kyle doesn't even vote for Genevieve. And when he votes for Teenie in the last words, you can can see him shrug so that was like a funny yeah well I think because he knows like it was always going to be Kyle but in a world where like you can save Genevieve and bring her in um Sue should do what I shoot Sue should do fireworks from now to the end but for Caroline you're thinking like Rachel's a great shield at five I've got shields all the way

to four I basically need to win fire to sit next to Sue, Andy, even like a teeny. And that's like a winning game for Caroline. So it's not what it would have been. And again, like without fire, even as an example, especially going down to a final two where there are pairs and you're in the middle and who chooses what it's more just like, who's going to be the biggest threat at five.

So for them, they have a shield. It's Rachel. And for Rachel, she knows she's protected. So they're all just like communally incentivized here without having to tear it up. I also don't think that it's two pairs of two with teeny in the middle. I think teeny Andy and Rachel have said there are three. And then obviously swimming Carolina or two, if anything,

Rachel now has, I think kind of put herself more in the middle, but it will be the biggest threat. It won't really matter as much. I get that. I just feel like if I had just learned that she now has a vote blocker and it's just like oh god now like she's coming into this fight i know they don't know about her idol but like i don't know i would just be i would just be getting a little uh big move idosy probably but like i would feel i'd be getting a little skittish and and i would want genevieve on my side like this is the thing right if like Genevieve being saved yes her threat level

will reduce but like she still is like a huge threat people will still want to get rid of her tomorrow if everything else goes tits up and you just need to kind of cut bait on her all right fine we get rid of Genevieve as well so it's kind of like I don't feel like it's that big of a deal to bring her in because she's still there and this is why I thought it was a bad move to get rid of Kyle. I was very much more on the move, the thought of getting rid of Genevieve. Because she's such a big, because she can do more than Kyle. Yeah, exactly. She can do more than Kyle.

Like, yes, the immunity challenges are a big deal, but, like, he's not unbeatbeatable as i have seen you point out on instagram on twitter yes blue sky or wherever they are like he's not completely unbeatable his threat is dependent on a silly carnival game genevieve's threat is just genevieve's threat like it doesn't it's not mitigated by anything beyond like her ability why she's so scary is there 24 7 and it's not going to change yes you can be less scared of it but like her ability doesn't change if he doesn't put a ball in a hole his threat disappears completely that that night so like i wouldn't i would not have gone for kyle there i would have gone for genevieve and i think that andy was

correct in that in that situation i disagree and here's why because every every week they put balls in holes or whatever you know like every week i had that opportunity whereas genevieve's superpower which is people has been quelled at this point i mean she already is like i don't want to you know get close to people i'm like genevieve that is your superpower like you have to that is the thing she's still smart enough to be able to do it whether people want her to do it or not like there's nothing that can stop like like that is every day at camp she just needs to have the right conversation there aren't balls at camp with little holes and if you just put it in your set well there actually are you'll definitely go into the forest and find a ball in a hole that's like you won the secret super prize that is actually more likely the odds of of carl finding something or

doing something and we'll talk about the journey that can protect him let alone immunity challenges i think it's high the genevieve power not just because she doesn't want to use her secret powers of people but because they're not letting her genevieve's power has been so badly reduced because no one will work with her and that people power is how you get genevieve but no one is falling for it anymore like she's like the mask is off yeah so i think the genevieve now like what is she going to do she needs people and that's not where her game is currently at because her threat level has been raised and no one's wanting to work with her so i would take out kyle and i know that you know the math for that andy put out and

christian had an amazing tweet thread about this explaining it this is beyond me but basically because andy to me in like like a like it's gonna have to be very five year old yeah i mean i i need it as a five-year-old this is like it's it was a lot um like how andy is so much the gif of like the working out like the lady that looks like julia roberts but isn't and she's like working it out um every week that's andy um so yes it's not julia roberts isn't that crazy that it's not it looks exactly like her it's like it's like a foreign film or something okay okay i've looked into this before because that's when i worked out it wasn't julia roberts anyway that's where i'm at on the working out give that's i'm not on the map so

basically what what andy said andy says other people are actually working out the maps and you're like is julia roberts it's not julia um so andy says that carl's win record is overrated and obviously i agree it's a very big part of who I am at this point to agree that Kyle's winning streak has asterisks, but. Even I who has been on social media. You're like something's permeated. And it's just me being like, you didn't actually win four. If you look at it, actually Genevieve beat him.

Genevieve is the one. Between Genevieve and Kyle and Genevieve and Teenie the one challenge uh I'm so glad that's the permeated see you're on the right side of social media you're just getting what you need that's that's that's it and everyone's been talking about it it hasn't just been me um so I actually feel bad because this is like the the height of of what you could criticize me the most for like talk about being an armchair quarterback for my cash being like, he didn't even win and I've got like my hand in a bag of Maltesers. It's like truly at its height.

But hold on a second. Before you explain it, if you're saying that Genevieve is actually the threat, then is it my point correct? Okay, okay, okay. No, Kyle is still a huge immunity threat. To be fair, like Kyle will always do very well in an immunity.

Even the ones he loses, he does very well in. And the ones ones he won he also maybe didn't win but still did very well and that's the day 20 he gave it a buck 20 in those ones yeah um anyway do you hate kyle sounds like i don't i don't i just think that i i don't hate kyle at all um at all i just think like the, I don't know, just like, yeah, I think it's fine. He's a family man. He's fine. I think that like the idea of like, you can only do it for your family is a bad general, can be weaponized by worse people than Kyle, you know? Like it doesn't matter unless you're doing it for your family kind of thing. don't really love that well i do do everything for my cats anyway this isn't a belief i hugely hold why is this where i'm at i was talking about math i was talking about julia roberts where was i back to christian back to christian what was he okay we'll go back it's not julia roberts in the gift

okay what was he saying i don't know i don't hate k. I don't hate Kyle at all. Okay. I'm glad Genevieve said it. Okay. Math, are you listening to me? Yeah, I'm trying to find the gif. Oh, wow. She does. I guess she does kind of look like Julia Roberts.

But it's not Julia Roberts. It looks exactly like her. The film that it was taken from, was the little math symbols there originally or were they just randomly added? I think they added that in. Imagine all of a sudden just out of nowhere becoming the math skiff person. Yeah. Have you ever seen that thing where it's like they interview people

who became memes? No, but do you know who I really want? It was like a BuzzFeed segment thing. I love it. Scram! Do you know that one? No. Scram.

She doesn't want to talk to you. Do you know that one? No. What? What? The scram. Okay, I hope people are screaming into their headphones or their cars or whatever now that they know the scram okay i hope people are screaming into their headphones or their cars or whatever now they know this the scram lady scram she doesn't want to talk to you

this is quality content this one the original scram i've never seen them in my lifetime nick i don't want to tell you oh my god i've never seen them before i my lifetime Nick I don't know what to tell you Oh my god I've never seen them before And I'm incredibly online okay Nothing gets past me The day that I woke up this week Where holding space for defying gravity Was my entire feed I had to work backwards

I love her I love her Okay sorry sorry yeah I have no idea anyway we've just talked about random we've gone so far from where we came okay it's I mean beyond beyond like I don't even what was Christian saying about the odds you've made this so hard for me. Like it's already above my pay grade and I've had to like defend how I feel about Kyle. I've gone to memes I didn't know existed. Please tell me that you love the scram woman. Please hit me up if you love the scram woman. Okay, go. Yes. I'm blaming you for this right now.

That's fine. I take it. Okay, okay math so okay so basically andy is like giving it a one and two shot that car will win which is basically true because many of the challenges he won he didn't win so and that is like how it's worked out basically it's a coin flip so for him to win um or four is one in 16 so that's 6.25 if you think that he should have a more than 50 chance of winning all four challenges this is what kristen said that was interesting he's going to take his word for it then that's an 80 more than 84 percent that he chance that he has in any individual challenge which is a lot if you think about it so that's the main math the odds of that i think are very very low that's basically what andy's in any individual challenge, which is a lot if you think about it. So that's the main math.

The odds of that I think are very, very low. That's basically what Andy's getting at, and I do think that is true. But this is my main point against what Andy is saying. Firstly, in terms of the odds, I think Andy's odds are fine. I think you do have to factor in the fact that there'll be fewer people so the field will get smaller, although he has won against half groups before in purgatory. What if he finds a trinket? that like there'll be fewer people. So the field will get smaller. Although he has won against like half groups before, like purgatory. What if he finds a trinket,

you know, like then he also has another chance at fire, like getting through every round actually isn't just winning the challenge, which is what this percentage is based on. I think that that is important. And then I also think like, is Kyle going to win out?

Probably not mathematically, but why do you want him to block up the end game? That's my main reason I would take out Carl. Just because it's annoying to have less agency as a group when you can't vote out who you want to vote out, which is less likely when your opponent is going to win immunity more likely. So next week, as an example, they can split the vote, but not if Carl wins immunity and then say it's Sam and Carl. What if Sam has an idol? Why not give yourself just maximum targets to be able to actually target who you want out of the game and that is my main argument of why i would take out car but it's like a 70 30 for me like both threats some water like i don't think it's hugely meaningful

and i'm so glad we got there that's how i feel about that we're here wait me yeah me to the maths in my head scram that's what you were thinking about the whole time i was explaining the math he doesn't want to understand you i just can't understand the math but i i definitely understand what you're saying about that locking up jamming up that yeah jamming up the end game for sure and there's also there's the the other part to it which is that like he seems to have really conveyed this like super likable story that is like a threat to win the final vote at the end so i get that for sure but i just i just seem like genevieve seems so much more like give her an like an inch like if you give her a one inch and you can't control what inches other

people are giving her you know you just can't control that that like that on any given day she's starved she's starved of social capital and that's that's her superpower and she's she keeps saying that it went wrong at the soul vote do you think that's true like or was it like was anyone looking at her before i defended it but, since then, I do think that it poked her head out way too much and she couldn't recover. And everyone like, yeah, optimally went against her, which I think is very, very upsetting.

I mean, I think that if you are Andy, getting out Genevieve, who's been saying your name and being able to claim it might be enough of a reason that, you know, to push for it over Kyle when I think that there are pros and cons.

If you're Sue Sue like the opposite is true like getting out Carl who you've been so vocal about might be good for her Caroline wants to be Sue which I think is super fair um I think Teenie for me it's just kind of like physical and if anything Teenie I think you're showing great patience and not just like emotionally going for Genevieve in these last couple of rounds when I think other threats have made more sense. And then if I'm Rachel, I want to keep Genevieve even past Sam, because I feel like Rachel is a Genevieve type threat where she's like an end game threat possibly, but like kind of less than Genevieve. And she's like strategic and smart like Genevieve, but less.

So it's like, you would hate to get rid of Genevieve. And then in a future week, they're like Rachel or Kyle. Well, Kyle's not going to win out. You know, even if it gets closer to the end, like now Rachel's the worrying strategic threat versus like if it's Rachel versus Genevieve, Genevieve will always just kind of be in that archetype, but like more prominent.

So I would keep Genevieve to like six so that they can't come for Rachel early if I'm Rachel, that's why I'm going. Calling all sellers. Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology. Here, innovation isn't a buzzword. It's a way of life.

You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. So can we talk about Rachel then? So like earlier in, like I love Rachel. A few weeks ago, wasn't it, what was the consensus that like she was the biggest threat? Like what happened there?

Like, can you refresh me? I think she was empowered a lot in the Sierra vote. Right. Yeah, she was left out of the Sierra vote. Who was saying that she was the biggest threat? Genevieve and vote. Right. Yeah, she was left out of the Sierra vote. Who was saying that she was the biggest threat? Genevieve and Caroline. Okay. So that's why she's, like, not happy Genevieve's been coming

for her this whole time. Ironically, Caroline is still kind of clocking Rachel around all that. Can we talk about Rachel? Because I feel like this was very much, like, Rachel's episode. For sure. If I was her, I would have had my family over for this vote this is the one where you have like the barbecue for you know a viewing party loved loved it so many great moments for her and like I forgot she had the idol until it came up on the little kind

of lower third thing and it said idol as well does anyone know about that item no oh brilliant yeah so rachel's in a great spot and this was a great episode and the thing you can say about rachel is if she is safe with a strategic decision she will do the textbook thing to do like as i've said like this is what rachel's rachel will gain something like she will think about something to 150 like as as good as we can think about how to approach a situation with like days to think about it on our couch, she will think about that and then some. And I really appreciate that.

I really appreciate a textbook player who's going to do what I want them to do. And that is where Rachel has been. So for Rachel, this episode, I mean, what to say? I mean, firstly, what did you think about her even going on the journey? Because I thought that this was crazy. Actually, were you on Twitter when I was doing my early rants? Because earlier in the season, my big rants were everyone's too polite about the journey. And I will die on the hill, and I'm excited to die on it. It's such a hill worth dying over. People are too polite about the

damn journey. You're telling me that, firstly, everyone who's not Sam, Genevieve, and rachel i have i have something to say oh it's time for the journey i already want i couldn't possibly go again are you joking imagine if that was true of immunity challenge i already won one you should go no there's a survivor the fact that they didn't even all ask to pick a rock the majority allowed for two members of the minority who are clearly in the minority you can even be rude about it like it's so obvious genevieve and sam to go just against rachel you can't split the vote they could get anything that was so so concerning that they allowed two members of the minority and kyle i already went i already lost my vote on the journey kyle

you are next out you should be like i just run to the boat which is apparently how that could actually be decided i can't believe really who said that yeah well at the time when i was complaining about this my former complaint about this um yeah i asked like all of them what like i asked marianne and oma and zach like what's the vibe here and they were like there's no rules i think you could probably run to the boat if i was carl like they'd be talking about it and the boat would be driving away and i would be on it that would be like like, what social capital is Carl going to lose? So just go. Oh my God. They're too polite about that. I didn't know that you could just jump on the boat. That's awesome. All right. Well, from my perspective, I have been the Rachel. Okay. I have been the Rachel

in this situation. And the very first thing like this that happened in season one, there was the, there's going to be a, what did they even call it? They didn't call it a, they didn't say a moral dilemma. They just said, you're going to go for a task. That would be, they'd really put their finger on this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was two people to go for a walk or whatever it was. And Tegan put her hand up, which I didn't mind because I liked Tegan. No one else did.

But it shocked me that the other people that I was working with didn't care that Tegan wanted to go. And I was like, okay, that's fine. But then Andy said he wanted to go. And I was like, oh, there is no way that Andy is going on that journey. I didn't want to go. But I was like, there's no way I'm letting that guy go and I will go for the good of my alliance.

And, again, I would have thought that they would have been grateful that I had, like, stepped up, but the fact that they didn't should have told me kind of what the type of player that they were, that they were willing to just let that go. They weren't going to see what I was doing as some big heroic thing because they were very much just, as long as it's not about me and i was like well i'll do it and then it ended up being tegan and i going so that andy didn't get it okay we all know how that all turned out don't worry about that but just like that fact that someone was willing to do it well didn't you win that's

hey if i hadn't gone on that journey Survivor experience would have been way worse. Without that moment, it's arguable I never would have been able to play again. No, you were doing a lot more than just that. But that was like, you know, that was like led to the huge thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, anyway. It's not a gore. Anyway.

I'll think about it like personally, you know know like i'm sure that is something you think about a lot but maybe not on this podcast no that's fine so i'm i'm huge huge uh a supporter of what rachel did there um but also i disagree with your thing that like everyone should want to go because like there does there does have to be some sort of kind of like mitigation of like threat level. And, like, if you're someone who's been on two journeys already, like, and then you're going on a third. Like, was it Andy that said he's been on two?

Is that right? Andy. Someone said they've been on two. Yeah. I think going for three, you are putting yourself all over the game board. And I just think that, like, that's maybe a little bit too much. So I think, again, like all these things, happy medium, I think maybe what you that's maybe a little bit too much so I think again like all these things happy medium I think maybe what you said is maybe too far one way and then what they

were doing was too far the other there is going to be a mid ground and I'm glad that Rachel did it because to the you know take the risk get the reward well in terms of like how it can pop your head out there's a couple of things here firstly when i was really at my ranty i was like you should just like the majority should just be like sam and genevieve you're not going like you have anything you're actually clearly on the bottom we're not even hiding it and that's very anti-social but at the very least that's so anti-social that's like all the that is the exact opposite of the advice you gave me before we went out to all-stars like people never be never be outwardly anti-social that was like one of the advice you gave me before we went out to all-stars like people never be never be outwardly antisocial that was like one of the things you said that's a lot that's if you want to be extreme it wouldn't even be antisocial to be like we can all just pull a rock that's fine

someone shouldn't go on the journey because they went in like episode two like who cares and if the thing the journey hasn't even gone well like people got their amulet. If anything, Tini lost their vote and got the amulet that they didn't even use. And Kyle lost his vote. So what, now Kyle's out of the journey because he went on one and lost it in the pre-merge? That was so long ago. And the reason as well that it shouldn't matter

is because if you're in the minority, you should push for it. If you're Kyle, it's not about social capital. You are getting voted out tomorrow. Again, run to the boat and be halfway to the the bars before they've even started talking about it that's for the people in the minority for the majority they shouldn't care the majority of people literally shouldn't care you might piss off some um you know some people on the bottom some of the threats um but like is it pissing them off more than like every single week playing with their lives being

like it's you or you? Like, that's where the dynamic is right now. And for the people in the majority, they should all appreciate it. Like, they should appreciate Rachel for going and putting their vote on the line for the majority. And it's so perfect as well, because there's five of them. So like, you actually can wager your vote because it's still going to be four to three. You can't split either way.

Like, it's the perfect opportunity to wager your vote for the majority. And they should at least put their hand in a bag. And it's not even, I don't think it's rude to say we're going to pull rocks anyway i feel so vindicated that people are waiting it's not rude it's not rude to say that or pull rocks but like yeah if but kyle's already doing the dump like he did the worst thing right his yes he made the worst choice uh genevieve and Sam made the best choice. And Rachel. Rachel then realised and then made the best choice.

Yes, she counted it. She counted that. The others made a choice, but I wouldn't say it was necessarily a bad choice. It was terrible, Nick. No, no, no, hold on. It was not a bad choice that they individually didn't want to do it. It was a bad choice that they were letting it get to the point

where it could have been one of those two. 66% chance. That's easy math that it was going to be a member of the minority. Although, to be fair, Kyle didn't put his hand up, so you might just be like, well, we can just target Kyle anyway. Right, right. So this is what I'm about to say, right? So in ranking all of those

decisions, if you then say, well, let's all put our hands in a bag. Now, Kyle, you are taking him out of doing the dumb thing and putting him back into contention for the good thing. Why? I would rather, because he's then now going to be pulling out a rock. If you're saying we all pull out a rock. Oh, true. He had pulled himself out of it right right and now all of a sudden you're like let's all pull our hands and rock now you're making it even worse because he had actually not got anything and was safe from not getting it true true but also basically you've made you've made i'm calling the lines and the hyenas because i think that that's fair you've made the five person hyena alliance like all putting your hands in the bag is better because it's five of eight chance that one of you

will pull it but now but then it gives kyle a one in eight chance i would rather take now now i'm now i'm julia roberts not julia roberts i would rather have the one in eight chance that kyle's putting his hand in the bag because god forbid kyle does go and you can't like you do still have sam and genevieve so but like also it's then you're much more likely that none of the three of them are gonna go compared to a two and three chance they got so lucky that rachel pulled it and it's more annoying for sure that one of them that you know and they could like flip it around i mean they're probably not gonna work together to that extreme but they could be like we have something and we're gonna flip it around we don't we don't and they don't have the power to split. I think that that five of eight chance is the best.

Of that other five, the person, I agree with Andy. I think that he also made a fine decision. He'd been twice. I wouldn't want to go three. I don't care what you say. I think that's,

I think that's what he said, right? I'm fairly certain. I can't remember. I think he said, I've been twice. And yeah. But the other thing is Sue probably make the worst decision of the five because she has an idol. Yeah. But the other thing is Sue probably made the worst decision of the five

because she has an idol. Yeah. She has an idol. She, and she is desperate to get Kyle out. And she's losing, she's on the track to be a goat. So just like do something big. And she was left out of the last vote. And she has a lot of space to move.

She's going to be a threat. So she has the most – she can just be like pow-pow all the time. Like there's nothing to it. Her and Kyle, if we had to do the power rankings, her and Kyle made the worst choice. And then Caroline made the second worst choice. And then Carolina Tini, sorry. And then Andy. If Andy went twice twice but i still think andy andy

should also be if andy went to us if andy andy also like needs stuff andy needs to change perception like andy should be like you know just going for everything i think yeah and for kyle it's even worse because worst case scenario actually like Sam or Genevieve get it and now like they aren't even in contention really like god forbid they go then you're like well we can't even think about Genevieve so now it's like definitely Kyle so actually like one of the other minority members getting it would have been really bad and this way it just like yeah um for the majority to have it as well just shores up there like carl is playing individually like carl needs it for him majority members is bad the majority members they still

have a majority it shores it up for them and the dynamics are so clear as well that like it's the perfect time to just know exactly what you should do i can't believe i've been ranting for two months what did you think of the puzzle thing how cool was that okay so let's talk about okay i loved that it was so funny i put this on twitter but it was it was like the most dramatic puzzle of all time because the puzzle's like if you don't solve me i'm going to throw myself in the ocean i was like if i swear to god and you know what is well about that puzzle do you play the the water game ever oh that's that's sort of like that little app where you pour the water yeah it's addictive i can't even get back into it

because i just will never stop you talk about like being distracted by stuff but yeah like it's like it's the same exact game where it's like um like the water colors in like and then you have to slide them around it's really fun yeah i um i loved it i loved the whole the visual of it i love that you didn't know how long the rope was going to take like you could look at that rope and go that could be going for a while but could also disappear really quickly um i just love the whole thing i just hope that someone was picking up the balls and they didn't fly off into the ocean afterwards and well the table as well yeah someone someone's diving down the puzzle yeah well okay but let's talk about this for rachel firstly yeah so rachel goes rachel also has an idol to protect like rachel does

you know the great thing for the majority and for herself and then rachel comes back and plays exactly how i would want her to play it like that's what i always say to do if you come back from a journey and no one's going to trust you tell your majority because then you control the narrative and like her lie to the lions was fine you know sam's not going to believe it like she told the truth of what happened but said that she lost her vote and ironically got to hide her vote um because had it been had like they not they obviously split a vote on genevieve and carl voted for teeny had it just been votes on genevieve it would have to go to five votes for carl that's so true

i didn't realize that but that was just luck but at the end of the day if they're like um you clearly did have a vote they read five votes they worked that out then it doesn't matter because she's controlled it with her majority and she used it to unify everyone and if anything it actually showed so well why that why i say to do this and it works so well um and i loved that and i was so excited that she did that because it was perfect it bonded people to her like so good loved it yeah but uh there are other factors i did it didn't work you told the majority yeah that's what the majority based on my julia roberts math calculations that shouldn't work. Sorry, I keep...

Did you tell the majority? So there was eight of us. I told Sue, JL, Sue, JL, Teganu, Ainu, and Craig. Five. Five out of eight.

When we say Sue and Andy, it's really confusing me. Like I have to go back to the vowel and not be where we're at. You told five. I don't know why that didn't work. I don't know why that shouldn't work, Nick because because this is exactly how it was intended do you know what i think it just shows how much they hated me i don't think it's anything about the strategy i think it was all about the person it wasn't

about the poem that just shows it was about if you tell your majority then you can control and the thing that works really well with this is that a vote block isn't that threatening. Like you still need numbers to use a vote block. You can't just like, it's not an idle way. Like I vote alone and I decide who goes and I'm that, you know, I'm safe now. You still need at least half the numbers to block one person. And then I feel like she played up.

She's like, it's only good till final six. So a vote block is essentially another, is a rebranding of the extra vote to me they're both like super super circumstantial the vote steal is where it's at the vote steal yeah an idol is what most people want can you imagine if you had been i think a vote steal is sometimes better than the idol. Well, it depends. Yeah. You have to know so much. Who would prefer an idol? For the coolness, yeah. A vote steal is less likely to work than an idol.

Well, it depends on your purposes. This is too generic a conversation. Well, I just feel like an idol is like, oh, do I play it? Do I need it? Whatever. It's like you can know, but there's so much like there's a lot of guesswork. conversation well i just feel like that like an idol is like oh do i play it do i need it whatever it's like you can know but you it's there's so much like it is a lot of guesswork a vote steal is like i now know you can't vote and i get two that's like that's a known quantity like i believe that there are so many survivor advantages that are unknown quantities that part of the risk is

like well will it work or won't it work and while that still is dependent on the numbers it's one of the few advantages that is like there are guaranteed outcomes that you can like bank on that's true but in like a group of 10 people your idol the guarantee is you will be safe whereas like you still can't predict all the other votes and like you could still go home You know And the vote still Vote still becomes warm It increases its power

The smaller the group gets Why are we arguing this? Anyway Continue Well Mike said last week That one of the reasons To give up Your shot in the dark for Rice

Is like people lose their votes All the time Like you don't even know If you're going to be able To use your shot in the dark Every round Imagine being like Sam Being like

I really need my shot in the dark I'm taking Rice away From the whole tribe for this And then like next week goes to use a shot in the dark and his voice has been blocked like that just shows like use your shot in the dark while you have it because that is not guaranteed because your vote is not guaranteed yeah true true that's a good point yeah yeah he's clever he's clever it's not it's not an amazing advantage um but yeah especially because like it's in the final six they all plan to be together to the final six caroline is like well clocking rachel but also i don't know if that'll be enough because rachel has the idol um it's still good i mean yeah like a vote block is still good i don't want to minimize it i just think it's better than an extra vote but like it's it's it's still like she can do something cool with it right so she can swing

so she doesn't want to stick with this five she can use the vote block to swing things out and then not worry about it bouncing back on her the next round because she has an idol so like like on its own it might not work and it can actually reveal quite a lot about your intentions of who you don't want to impact the game in any capacity um and that might not be dangerous in that round because they don't know who it was and i know they still won't know who it was but they'll connect the dots that she just went on a journey but it's good because you've got the backup of the round after when the fallout of a somewhat useful challenge advantage may or may not work you know that you're willing to take the risk on it

because you have that kind of extra armor the week after well the difference with the issue with the vote block and an extra vote is that you need to have you need to be going to an even group like that's like you before the vote block you needed to be going to an even group like that's like you before the vote block you needed to be going to like a 4-4 anyway and now it's a 4-3 or an extra vote like now it's a 5-4 which would have been perfect for titans v rebels which every week was like and now two different even groups but i think is otherwise pretty unlikely the vote steal obviously can flip a small majority of minority but an idol idol's like, you know, Kelly Wentworth is going to negate, you know, nine votes to three. So that

is the difference for me. Well, there's a reason why that's so iconic is because it happens so rarely. No, I don't think so. Think of how many idols, people have gone home with idols in their pockets. It's so circumstantial. People don't always feel in their pocket. Yeah, I know.

I just feel like that, like that like you know having had an idol like yeah it gives you comfort a little bit but it doesn't it's not like this kind of golden ticket to the end like the issue is people are more able to play these little advantages because they're not scared of possibly wasting it where an idol is so valuable that people don't play it when they should because they're like this could be you know this is i don't want to waste it it's so valuable and that's the issue with the idol because it's that valuable and i've now yeah i don't even know how i get into this that's true in both of my experiences i held on to my idol one vote and then played it the one after and held on to my vote still and then i played it the one after i just like have this theory in my head that if you've got an anything a two two round maximum but a one round you should do it

the first time if not the second that's my that's my it's always been my prevailing thought and i've done it both times interesting well i don't even know where we've gone i don't even know where i'm in my notes we've talked about so many things Let me check my notes No okay I want to talk about Sam I have This is okay

Let's talk about Sol's camel toe Did you see that In the bloody On the jury bench Oh yeah no That's in my notes That's exactly No that's not in my notes Nick

I think there's very different things About the show I was like Sol Jesus Christ Those are some tight pants Alright I love Sol We love Sol What's the prevailing thought on Sol I was like, soul, Jesus Christ. Those are some tight fans. All right.

I love soul. We love soul. What's the prevailing thought on soul? Everyone loves soul. That didn't permeate. The Kyle stuff that I'm tweeting about permeated, but not how much everyone loves soul. That's like unanimous across the fandom.

Okay. I saw people thirsting over him, but I didn't see people. Yeah, that as well. So you saw that. So, okay. So now we're keeping track of what's permeated through your social media detox me complaining the car hasn't actually won and soul being thirsted over alone but we don't know if you like him but he definitely got thirsted over those are the oh and and oh no but i was probably more on twitter at the beginning with the whole rome stuff i i saw a lot of the rome stuff did you like rome i thought it was entertaining

yeah i thought it was great for the show yeah it was a good character i feel like i'm being diplomatic but that's just how it that yeah all right can we talk about sam because i want to talk about sam because please do please last week sam got the fishy i gave him max chizzy points and now he's like so at the bottom so i spent a lot of time it's actually really funny if you read my notes about sam because i argue with myself and i didn't have time to go back and change them but I like went on a journey with it where I'm like working out what he should do and like came to the conclusion um because like like why is Sam here like did you like what he did last week he brought it all

together he takes out Gabe he's a big part of that instigates it even leading it probably that's what we saw and now is like down in the trenches trying to work with the genevieve's and the carl's probably could have used a gabe should he have kept gabe in the in the game now talking about that it's not even gabe v genevieve because last week my biggest takeaway was that genevieve and gabe and the two coups who were on the ropes um a bit and maybe would want a majority and gabe's on the ropes and carl's going to be on the ropes when he's vulnerable and genevieve's on the ropes i thought and maybe would want a majority and Gabe's on the ropes and Kyle's going to be on the ropes when he's vulnerable and Genevieve's on the ropes.

I thought they should have made a majority of five and gone for like a Sam or a Rachel. Should Sam have done that same thing with Tuku, with the Tukus, maybe even with Genevieve and gone, taken out like an Andy, which they're trying to do here. They're trying to do the go-tunting here. Should he have done that last week with Gabe in still to keep threats or not? What do you think? No, I don't not fault people taking out Gabe like I know that it didn't the exact thing that they didn't want to happen

afterwards that was so Sam so on the bottom and all that but I just I don't know whether it was about just Gabe's vibe it was just like so off-putting like it was just such an off-putting vibe I felt that's not why they took out Gabe no no I know hear me out off-putting like it was just such an off-putting vibe i felt no no i know hear me out off-putting in the fact that like he had sue as this like okay super devoted to him he was very kind of like thought he knew what he was doing seemed like he was like really wanted to kind of prove himself very much like i don't know felt like felt like he felt he was going to be making bigger moves than he did and i just it's just kind of like no let's just clear that from the table like let's just clear the uncertainty let's clear the vibe let's clear the he's got this really tight

ally they've been together for a very long time like To me it was just like, no, exit stage left and let's just reassess. Right. Yes. So I'm all in on what they did. I am surprised that, like, Sam is viewed as this, like, big threat. Like, other than that, which I think a lot of them would think that they were their masterminds behind it and not actually lay it at sam's feet so other than that like what what has he i think he's i've really enjoyed sam but like what has he done to be put in the level of

like no it's so clear like genevieve is like this strategic threat took Sol, all this stuff. Kyle is this huge challenge beast who wins all these challenges. Family guy. Sam is a young, fit dude. Yeah, it's the patriarchy, Nick. That's the patriarchy. I was literally going to say, like, it's just patriarchy writ large, that this, like, young guy who doesn't seem to have, like, this huge worldly experience.

He seems like a little bit of a bimbo. I him though i like him i like him i like him i've just a little bit of a bit like the the strays that are being thrown i like him i like him i like him but i it's just like what i i guess what i'm trying to say is that like what has made him the threat that they perceive him to be it's just perception like and that's why i say that like even last week when i talked about it i'm like sam will get taken out just because he's someone juries like and that and we like, it's so important to how we view the show. And this is why I wrote an article a couple of months ago that I would love everyone to check out. I'm really proud of it about like, can juries be wrong?

And it was a lot about like jury bias and human bias that we should always be deconstructing. Like, I want to talk about Sue in this as an example. Like, do I think that Sue has played a fantastic game? I thought she was great early. I have obviously question marks around like a lot of the fact that Chukwu wasn't viable, which I think would have been optimal for pretty much all of them. And certainly going further into the game was because Sue was just so

set on Kyle. Like it was like, it made like it locked up a lot of the game because she was just so set on Kyle. And I'm not saying that that is good. I think that those are missteps. I think that lying about the age is silly and the blood didn't go well and her face is always dirty. Like I'm not saying that those things aren't true

but i also think that like when sue is a zero vote finalist which is almost inevitable at this point it'll be in a long line of like old woman finalists and like maybe she'll deserve it more than some of the other people in that archetype like some of those people really didn't deserve it you know it's much harder to be a sue and get the credit than it is to be sam who comes in with the credit now sam's then fighting against the fact that he's a threat like sam's in fighting against with the fact that people think that he can win challenges even if the i mean he's probably been fine but like the record isn't as much there even with the asterisks or not like he hasn't won the challenges but we think he could we think he could win at the end like it's just it's different

struggles in pure survive it's different struggles it's like how will Sam even get to the end because he comes in and people are already looking at him versus how to win at the end. Um, in this type of survivor, it has tried to help out the Sams who have that archetype to protect them on fewer rounds, to have more trinkets, to have fire, to have these things to get them through the difficulties of that. And that's how it's kind of changed it. But yeah, it's literally just perception. Juries do like, um um the sams and every time i'm like oh he's gonna get taken out because look at him like that and that's just what it is and then i think like am i biased we're just assuming that but then it plays

out and i think nope that society and i'm not wrong for simply commenting on it i'm just calling out what i see it's not my fault patriarchy is not my fault i'm just commenting on something that is true it is amazing that like you know this show is so popular because it's just such a study in the way we perceive each other and the way in which we act in social groups and just like for 47 times we've seen very similar things play out again and again and just like this is why reality tv will never go away. This is why Survivor is here to stay just because it's just like this endlessly fascinating thing that you can put Sue there and people will think of her one way and you can put Sam there and people will think of him

another way. Like it's just fascinating to me. A hundred percent. And the thing is depressing. Yeah. I mean like Cochran and dawn played similar games you know and like it went that's always a good example gabler was ridiculous too like was gabler less ridiculous than sue i've said this and this is a long time and i don't mean to like make it always

about gabler but if gabler was a woman things would be very different but he couldn't win he wouldn't get one vote because gabable has been a woman many times. People don't like that. They don't like the cookie woman. They're okay with the cookie man, a little bit more okay, in the right circumstance. It's not amazing, but it's better. And that's simply the patriarchy.

And that's Sam's cross to bear. Like that will make it hard for Sam now. Sam lost Sierra. That was hard. Didn't want to lose soul. That was hard. Like was losing power. And then last week gets a bit of power to make a decision. But I think what is clear now is like that decision I'm actually fine with

in the end, but either way, it's really tough for Sam because of the perception, because of some of the lack of agency. And I think like had he kept Gabe last week, then the two crews probably just want to take him out anyway. Like he's in a very similar spot of not having control and still having to get as far as he can until he can try to win out and maybe even gets less far. If he can push Genevieve ahead now to get to six,

there's only a couple of challenges in fire. The challenge beasts are the type that fought through less, and I think that actually is okay for him. I don't see how there's a pathway for him from last week that's better than that. I think Tuku, maybe take out a Genevieve here if they can be united and then take them out so i'm surprised that the andy sam thing didn't come

i felt like we were building towards it so much that like the monster takes out frankenstein kind of thing this like this i do love that i i i was i would have bet my bottom dollar that it was going to happen in the first few weeks of the merge. Maybe it still will. It'll definitely play out in many ways. I feel like it's fizzled. Maybe Sam doesn't vote for Andy or something. Yeah, true, true, true.

There's so many ways that could go. Yeah, that's true. It has fizzled because if Sam goes, it'll be just like in his inevitable takeout spot which is what i said last week i'm like they will just cut him which day and it it played out earlier than i thought he was so out of it so quickly but yeah they probably just cut a threat and that's not really like an anti thing as much of the storyline i think a lot of that played out with sierra like they really gave him the storyline of like that was when he got the he's all that moment of turning up on sierra so i feel like that storyline we got a lot of that with with that true yeah that's what he

said yeah i know i loved it so if you see my notes about sam it's literally like yeah i said last week he'd get cut at six maybe that's not optimal maybe he should work with tuku but then tuku are in power then he's probably getting cut even earlier all right it was fine it's not like i criticize that he's even in the position from a threat management perspective or without the agency to be in a position where like both options aren't great but like i'm fine with it and seen what else don't talk about souls camel toe when i throw to you like please give me something better than that why did carl vote for teeny can you explain it i don't know he shrugged in the final words.

It was really funny. Why was that though? I think Kyle knew he was out. Like I think it was done. Yeah, but what? I think it was really clear. I think he, like it was nothing. It was a throwaway vote.

And then they split the vote. So that was interesting. I mean, how do we look at Kyle? Like, because last week i criticized caroline kyle all these people i don't want to talk about caroline but all those people for turning um on tuku and i wanted tuku and genevieve to vote out rachel or sam i feel like for kyle like maybe tuku don't stay together and again sue can wear losing like the very optimal four-person tuku group that could

have like played it down but like so you can we're probably wearing a lot of that because it was never an option but like even just having gabe here does kyle go if he loses maybe maybe still but like i still would want gabe just as an individual shield thoughts on kyle i liked kyle i think he was he was good um i was good I feel like that what would be happening is like Gabe would be like I told you guys if you voted out me everything was going to go bad from there

and that just annoys me but he didn't say that you just said that as him I know I know that's just what I feel like he would be saying at jury villa I hope that's not happening I know, I know, I know. That's just what I feel like he would be saying at Jury Villa. Fair enough. I hope that's not happening.

Kyle, I feel like it was such, did I miss something? But what did he ever say about Sue? Well, we don't know. And I'm hoping, and I forgot that there aren't any exits today. Can the interviewers please ask Kyle if he called them Tweedledee and Tweedledum? It's important to me. The biggest debate I've had over the past week multiple times is it before people tweet and he said to sue that he called them tweedle d and tweedle dumb would you be insulted

by that though because a lot of people were like that's fine okay good it is insulting i'd be insulted if it came from someone i didn't like if If it came from one of my friends, I'd be like, oh, yeah. It's just, that's all about context. It's about context. I've been calling you that. I got that image of you in the hospital and I was like, what has this Tweedledum done now? Well, who's my Tweedledee?

Me. Yeah, yeah. That's you. Hey, we're all in this together. But you'd rather be D than dumb. Tweedledee is like the doofus Tweedledum is like the idiot Well, apparently Sue wrote Tweedledum on her vote

Actually? Yeah Really? Did they show that? Tweedledee I saw David Bloomberg tweeted it I didn't catch it in the moment it depends if she wrote Tweedledee or Tweedledum yeah

if I were to hear that I'd be like well who's the D and who's the dumb okay well out of us who's the D and who's the dumb don't make me answer tell me tell me who you think I am come on you think i'm the dumb i don't think i'm tweedle dumb where are we do you think i'm tweedle dumb no i think that i'd probably be tweedle d i'd probably be a bit more the... I don't know the difference between Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

Wait, wait, wait. Sorry, sorry, sorry. No, I'm the dumb. And then, like, the D is the kind of one that's a bit more, like, kind of, like, you know, a bit more hard to pin down. Dumb is just, like, you're, like, a dumbass. So I would take that because I don't think that fits you. You know?

That's so sweet. Why has this been so much... I'm trying to make up for the fact that i sent you that photo yeah 10 minutes in hospital purgatory yes um where were we oh what did he say about them i mean he voted for sue that's been the big thing at the tk vote oh my god wow okay hey these grudges for us it's been weeks and months for them it's been like what they're on day six or something yeah no that's stupid that's always been really that has actually been tweedled them but we don't know what carl was saying about them and i'm i want to know in the exits if he

called them that i think it matters how two-sided this tango was because carl got like a big hero edit i'm not saying a lot of it wasn't deserved but i don't think we got like a nuanced portrayal of what that dynamic might have been like no even though i still criticize who's part in it but i just want to know this is why i go back to my point that they should have got rid of genevieve like he just seemed like so much less of a threat around camp he didn't put his hand up to go on the journey he voted for for Tini. You know, like there was a lot of stuff here that seems fairly easy to navigate around if someone can just get a ball in a hole, you know? I said last week. Well, let's not re-litigate.

Yeah, well, I said last week that Sue and Carl reminds me of Homer and Flanders. Like, is Carl not Ned Flanders? And then they were like, yeah, tweet he would literally and if I was really dumb there you go um I I think that next week is where the real juice is did you see the preview and I know we don't always trust the previews, but like it did look like Andy had fallen out of that five because he was very much in that little cluster of Genevieve, Andy, Sam. No? You're not buying it?

No, I think Genevieve's gone. What do you think about Genevieve? Where do you think about Sol? Where it went wrong for Genevieve? Where do you put this Genevieve? Sure. I love Genevieve. Can we talk about her?

So there was that scene where it was just the three of the kind of lions as you call them um asterix and Sam but the fact that they were all there and they were all having this like this kind of like realization circle where like the edit gave each of them this kind of like moment of like realization one was like oh I need to be more harsh the other one's oh it's okay to lie or whatever but what did you think of like Genevieve's I think you've already kind of touched on it I thought it was so interesting to hear her actually verbalize her realization out at tribal council like I thought that was so crazy that she actually said it in front of everyone why is it because she thought she was going home and she was just

like I'll just say my story now so at least makes the tv he's very honest at tribal council i think it's very very honest to say that i am personally detached from people and i am not interacting with people like you are killing i think it's actually there's probably more nuance and it's probably a bit more layered than this but like for some of those players you could be signing away a vote from final travel just based on that once you're doing it you better be honest about it because otherwise they're like that she's just not connecting with me because she doesn't like me like it would be better to be like i want to connect with you but it's a me thing like it's not you it's me um my criticism is on that but it's like how much can you criticize something that's just like her personal struggle i mean i, I do don't have the personal struggle,

but you can't come on survivor and be like, I am the people person. I'm like a social queen, like anything, one of the best social players we'd seen like in the pre-merge it was, it's really special. And then be like, I'm not going to try and exploit that because that is the game. And I, although, and I do criticize it because from optimal strategy, of course, but then like from a story perspective, like that is just like, from a human, in a human way, what she's struggling with and that's so interesting and

i really like that was my favorite part of the episode by far was early on with caroline stuff we'll talk about um even carl was talking about it andy had a bit of that genevieve had just like how much they struggle with the game which is like the beauty of survivor um you know 20 something 24 years into this still so hard and so complicated and i thought it was great and i thought it was so chilling when she was like um kishan said genevieve i trusted you and they had they went back and they had her over like overlaid her confession on her saying it over him saying it and i had goosebumps i was like oh he really did say it exactly like that that was bad yeah yeah that was really good yeah so what so what so like where what blame do we put what do you what blame do you put on Genevieve you've been detached from the discourse like how did we get

here I think that she just got like I my read of it and it's probably wrong but my read of it was that she was found out that she was very good at this game and it just was happening for her and it was happening really well. And I think there are some people who, you know, obviously there are people who are thinking they're going to be really good at the game and they have a different experience. There are people who go out there and they think they might be right and then things just happen. Like I think of someone like Elle, for example, who I played with,

never seen the show before, terrible at articulating herself, but just a natural fluency for the movement of the game, a natural fluency for moving around camp. And I think that she, Genevieve, had that natural fluency for the movement of the game, a natural fluency for moving around camp. And I think that she, Genevieve, had that natural fluency that maybe surprised her and how things were happening and was excited to do them and kept doing them and then started to feel bad about them. But, like, I think she just kind of, like, just the ball kept rolling

and she just kept rolling with it too far. And that maybe that excitement at real realizing how effective you are at the game got too much like when you have to struggle so much in the game i like you don't the ball like the momentum isn't rolling that it rolls away from you like it's this stop start you know the ball rolls back and crushes you for a little bit. You duck out of the way. You can push it back and then you've got to keep going. Whereas I think for her it just seemed so natural that it's like her legs couldn't keep up and she just thought the next thing you do is make the next big move and then the next big move and the next big move.

So that's why I think exactly. That's why I think that there are some people you know like i think of like kim spradlin when she came back for like winners at war like so few things went correct for her where the first time it was just like everything was happening and like all she was like invincible socially strategically physically idols this that that like she was this rolling stone. If you don't have those struggles, it doesn't, like, I feel like there is a part of you that's like that makes you not a very good survivor, right, because you have to be able

to recognise when the shit hits the fan. And this is why I think Shani is actually such a good survivor because so much of her game has been played from a limited position, yet she has still survived. Like she knows the pitfalls. She knows when the trapdoor is about to fall and she's going to just like, she's just going to be taken off the board. Like other people who've perhaps come back,

and I think of someone like Abby, for example. I played with Abby and Shani. Abby, every single thing went right with Abby and Shawnee, Abby, every single thing went right for her until the very last moment when it didn't. She came into all stars with an extremely different viewpoint than Shawnee did. And we saw how that turned out in the battle between Shawnee and Abby. So I think that it just rolled too fast for her to be able to then pull it

back. And then now she's left with like nothing. I hope she can get shit back together because i freaking love genevieve i love her faces at trouble i love the way she talks about the game i think she's a strange person she seems normal but like i think she actually is a strange person and that's why i love her yeah exactly that's not derogatory that's not no anyone who's listening to the first hour and a bit of this podcast could possibly think that we are throwing stones in that glass house you're one of our people of course if you're yeah it's just Gabe no I just mean in terms of like we're strange we're really really oh oh yeah oh okay yeah like she's a strange person obviously you mean that in

a good way like that's great um I love what you're saying because we had been comparing her to Kim Spradlin. And then I said last week, I'm like, oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wait, that didn't even permeate. So the first thing over Saul and Kyle's challenges, but not Genevieve is Kim and poverty combined. Really? That's been a big take. Like early on, she sounds like poverty as well.

So that's been a big. But I did say last week, I'm like, she's not Kim. She couldn't recover. But I like what you're saying better first 70 of this game she was kim spradlin in one world and now she's just kim spradlin and winners at war yeah yeah i'm gonna think about kim like on the beach and in the premiere being like or maybe the second episode being like we're not in kansas anymore relevant to wicked month um and um and i think that's her now it's just it's happened in the one season. So she's still Kim.

She's got the breadth of the experience in the one game. And that's good because it's effective. In a shorter game, too, she's having the whole Kim Spradlin journey without the win, though, unfortunately. Exactly. Okay, I love that. Yeah, well, until, yeah. Anyway, I don't think.

I think it's a tough road ahead for Genevieve. But I appreciated the inventiveness of thinking of going for the goat killing strategy. It's hard because Rachel is so incentivized to stay with the group and they all are. That's what Kim didn't have. She didn't have a, you know, AI optimized robot group doing what is in their best interest,

which kind of, other than being too polite at the journey, like everyone, I think, you know, is mostly, not Kyle, but a lot of people are really doing at the moment um speaking of that I'd love to talk about Caroline if we can get to Caroline um because I was harsh on Caroline last week I laid the feet of what I or the what I wanted to have and I laid it at her feet I wanted her to protect um Tuku and Gabe and Genevieve and like take out you know someone on the other side and have more agency and she has like a great scene she comes back with sue i think so well i mean talk about recovering with an ally like who could say no to the emotion and the you know story that she gave to sue and it was genuine and

it was amazing um and now i really see it in a much better way for caroline um i'm a little bit higher on last week's move for the reason of i wanted her to keep going with tuku and then take out Gabe a little later and really own the move and, like, have the credit. This way I actually think she might not have as big a move to her name. She wants the agency, and I think it might be a little bit more passive. But the way that Sue saw my Gabe being her number one, I don't know if she would have had Sue to do that at a six or a seven, which would have made that a bit tougher.

So I'm a little bit higher on her just doing it last week, and I'm higher on her position because she recovers so well she's in this group I think she's got a great shot with this group we know that she's gonna have to get through Rachel's idol and I do think that that is a concern but yeah taking it down to like a five or a four sitting next to Sue and Andy even a teeny I think is really good especially learning the perception of Andy is what we feared I think think very high on Caroline this week. What did you think about where she's at? I've always really liked Caroline.

I like the way she thinks about the game. I love the way that like when someone says that they found an idol, she's like, yes. I know. She always seems so like happy for the other people. It doesn't seem fake. No, I don't think so at all. that's funny as i was saying like i was like what if rachel idols her out and i was like she'd be like good job rachel like if that happens and she's on the other end of

rachel's idol she's gonna be like that was such a cool play and she's like carrying her torch over to jess yeah yeah yeah amazing time on me i love i love the way she seems just like genuine and happy that's what you want in an ally right someone who's like excited for you with what you've got again i've been there and people have found that i've had and you see it in their eyes and they're not happy for you and then i've had other people i've had i've had you know other people be like jet like genuinely happy and like you can there is no hiding that like and that's the kind of ally that's when you know someone is truly on board with you when you share something and they are like yes we can do this we've got this the momentum is coming and i'm with you with it

so i love that for her and i think she comes across really genuine and i think that i don't think that what she said to sue was like really that amazing i think the fact that sue took her back was just because caroline is just a good person has built those bonds over the whole time then it's just a little blip you can get over right that she kind of cashed in the social capital that she had with her across the whole game that's what was able to kind of like get her back i think so really good for caroline there i also really like that like her and sue seemed to really stamp their foot down on getting what they wanted even though i have said that i think that genevieve should have gone um i think that they didn't want it so they stamped their foot down and they didn't let andy and rachel kind of derail the ship and i also thought that it was important that like caroline

really didn't entertain the other option because it's not what Sue wanted and at that moment what was really important is getting Sue to feel 100% comfortable with you again after what she had done not voting with her at the last tribal council so I think that's all really good my fear for Caroline though is that she is just going to get lost in the source in the in the end game and that she is not going to have anything that is going to get lost in the source in the in the end game and that she is not going to have anything that is going to and we talk about inherent biases like i don't think that she's in a tough demographic she's in the tough demographic and she yeah yeah and she's going to need something super flashy on her resume to overcome those biases particularly if she is with other people that are um not who are considered

you know rightly or wrongly considered lions so this is what and this this is why it's so that whole crazy idea i came up with about like sue and caroline you know using the idol and bringing genevieve in like that that whole thing stemmed from me sitting down at the end of the episode and going what is caroline and sue going to do from here like like and then i retroactively said okay what could they have done to make sure that the next three or four episodes or whatever it is how many left are like uh setting themselves up well so i'm concerned i think for sue it's like every single thing you suggest for me for sue to do i'm like yep like literally like that like should sue do this like yeah she could go home yes you know because yeah but i still think that you're being a bit too like what is bullish the

word about like caroline's chances because if caroline's the sexist sue and andy or even teeny what does teeny had as well i mean teeny has relationships with the jury, so does Caroline. Teenie will win. Teenie will beat her. I think Caroline over Teenie right now, depending. Teenie has great relationships. I want to talk about Teenie as well. You know, like sit next to Sue and Andy.

That's what everyone's trying to do. Yeah, I know, but like not everyone. That's like you're leaving yourself one spot. So like you can only in seven, let's work out the probabilities on this, like you have one permutation of people that you're going to win against? Yes. I don't know. That's scary.

That's scary. If you're saying she won't beat Rachel or Genevieve or Sam, and I think Tini seems to be a tough shot. I think she could beat Tini. Now, okay, so I disagree, and it seems like you have changed your mind on that. So let's put that as a toss-up. That means that she can only beat two people?

And Tini, maybe. Two and a half. That's not good. Two and a half. She's only up against six. In a final three. Yes, and I think Rachel's idol is concerning you know it's fire and all of that it's like there's no way to differentiate make fire people yeah but it's but like you know in a game where it's so hard to get to the end yourself you have to make sure that two other people are the other

two with you i don't know yeah this is like well this is none of this is a criticism against caroline by the way none of this please please i against Caroline, by the way. None of this. Please, please. I love Caroline. I really do. I'm afraid that she will not get the credit that she deserves. It's not a criticism. It's the duality of the game that Genevieve had, you know, maybe two weeks ago.

You know, it's like, do you want to do the big flashy thing? And when do you want to, if you want to, and poke your head out? And then do you get targeted? Or do you want to go into the safer way, but way but maybe then just have like a stable path to the end and you can give that that story at the end um yeah because i do think that i i wanted caroline to do that too nick last week i said that caroline should have got them all together to take out a rachel or a sam then take out a genevieve then go through and then start taking out hopefully with sue and again i don't know that sue does that so now i'm concerned but like if she could have done that then take out the games and the cars

now she's run the whole game and she's definitely going to win but she still has shields in front of her that's what I wanted her to do but with the concerns about Sue and with the situation that she is in now I think ironically it will be a more passive path because she said she wanted to take the game into her own hands but I still see that there's a pathway I mean I still yeah I mean I don't think it's as far gone to be like pow-powing as much as i've just invented like now that's what i'm but like that's what i feel like i feel like sue and and you're in pow-pow spots which is just like especially sue if you have nothing to lose and like you can see you're going to be a goat to stop pow-powing change rapidly change perception but I don't think how this goes back to the thing that Jeff said in the first episode, it wasn't last

season, that like one of you right now doesn't realize that you can't win isn't that what he said? and from the beginning I think that's crazy but I do think at this point but that's the problem, that you don't know that you can't win it's so hard if you and Andy were thinking that,

then they would still have the time to change it. As I said, Marianne did that at six. But they have to know that they need to, to want to change it. And I think that they're in that spot. I don't think that it's at that point for Caroline. But, yeah, and another thing that I think is really hard is because a lot of the new era meta is about being an underdog and then taking out the big bad and then getting credit for it

you know they gave gave the credit on jesse on fire they gave obviously marianne like very deserved credit on oma like this is such a big part of the way the new era can be played but when everyone wants to take out the big threats who's going to get credit for that you know like fighting over who does who get carl credit because she's loudly said it even probably to her detriment and like a bad perception would andy get genevieve everyone wants genevieve like preaching to the choir and when you can't individually take that move it's very very hard to get credit so if this whole five are going to kind of like passively go down to five because it makes so much sense for all of them none of them will get credit and as i said they'll

all though but they will be sitting next to other people who have the credit and then they'll have to argue it better and then it will just be in the order maybe it'll be a bit close so yeah sounds like you're advocating for my sue and caroline idle out no i don't keep jenna the plan for those two to differentiate from the five i think it's very then they're never gonna get no no because then they won't get to the five one. B, then they're going to keep in people who will beat them anyway like a Genevieve. Those people do need to go. No, you get rid of Kyle. You get what you wanted.

Get rid of Genevieve next week. It does not change the order of who was going home that night. You get what you want. But, Nick, it's fan fiction. Come on! They all voted for Kyle. You can't save Genevieve when it's unanimously on Kyle. You've got you want. But, Nick, it's fan fiction. Come on! They all voted for Kyle. You can't save Genevieve when it's unanimously on Kyle. You've got an idol.

You don't need, like, save her for what? One vote, split vote for your own people that have been, you know, protecting her. They wanted to vote out Kyle. You can't save Genevieve when Kyle is the target. You'd have to change everyone to Genevieve and then save her, which is crazy. It's great.

Anyway. No, they're all. Kyle was the target. Believe me, I'm sure Kyle was even more of the target than the show wanted us to believe. If Sue wanted to do it, she could have convinced Caroline and said, you didn't vote with me last week. Do this for me. To vote for Genevieve?

No. We're going to do this idol thing and we're going to vote out Kyle. They're voting out Kyle anyway. Anyway, don't worry. This was. The chizzy. This was cut and dry, I'm telling you. When Rachel's like, we've been talking about everyone,

I'm like, I think Kyle was gone. Anyway. Before the chizzy, one last thing. Teenie. We haven't spoken all about Teenie. Thoughts and feelings on Teenie? I love Teenie. I love her face, the way she seems so positive and happy,

even when things seem so, like, dire for her. I think she's someone who I think she's, like, thriving out there from, like, a standpoint of, like, making social connections. I do like this running gag where like everyone who she's close with ends up going that must feel awful but it is kind of have an interesting wrinkle for her i don't know i i really like her i really like her i i wish for more for her in the game than she has been than she is getting i i thought this was a pretty good episode um one of the big things for me was that

andy in my like the concerning montage is that andy tells us he's running the game but no one else confirms it andy says the threats i have the biggest like relationship with the threats and then the threats actually coming for andy and they go to teeny rachel as well genevieve comes to rachel but like they were like we really need you teeny so i thought that that showed like pretty good positioning from Teenie. Teenie, I think is in a good spot with this group. So yeah, I think that things are turning around for Teenie, but it's just not in as dramatic a way as you'd like,

considering how low it's been, but it's like the game has opened up and they all, they all know that the thing is like Teenie is a good part of like putting the five together, but they all are like, they all in the well conversation, which might be like the scene we all look back on when like the final five make their group and then like go to the final five maybe give them kind of my chickens but like if that's the thing then that seems gonna be very important but like everyone was good there because they're all just so mutually incentivized and like all savvy enough to know it all sweat and savvy enough to know it what i

liked about from teeny this episode is when they came to was uh sam and genevieve came to her about hey we should vote for andy or whatever she's just like no she's yeah now now i think that is good because she shouldn't have been voting for andy i think they should have done something else as i've already mentioned but like what i really liked about it is that like there are so many of those fake conversations right that you have on survivor that is like yeah let's do this oh yeah let's do that that like sometimes even though that's not the answer you want it's refreshing that someone is willing to just be honest with you and say no that's not happening you know like it's this weird kind of like, you go all the way around to come back,

that like someone not doing what you want in actual fact sometimes can show that you have a trustworthy relationship with them, that they're willing to have that. So like while the door was closed tonight, maybe it shows potential to work in the future. I don't know. But whatever it is, I like that she was like standing in her power enough to have agency and just say,

no, I'm not doing that, no. Yeah, it was a funny scene because they were like, we can't do it without you, and Teenie was like, good. Yeah. And that is my preference. So, yeah, I mean, I think Teenie is an interesting spot. I will say for the quote-unquote underdog allies, we're getting a lot of tweets, I don't know what permeated,

about, like, how they're the underdogs if they're in the majority they are the underdogs because they will lose to the overdogs at the end that's what makes them the underdogs like they're if you if you want it like this is the way and this is what i've always said this is actually what i've always said of how to play survivor you should make a hierarchy of who the jury will vote for which is so hard to do but in a perfect world where you have the information of who's most likely to get the votes put them in an order and then vote out the people on top of you that survivor it's very hard to do but like they're the ones doing it so that makes them the underdogs because you don't want to go to the end with the genevieve and sam and a carl so that's what they're at i also had one last thing

before the chizzy jeff says that the five-time immunity challenge winners, half have lost. But, you know, there's six people who did it and four have lost. Most of them actually do lose at the end. I don't think that would have been Kyle. People loved Kyle. Was he saying that they lose as in they don't win the game or they lose in the final trial? Lose the game. And he said maybe not even make it to the end.

So it's like Mike Holloway won the game. Tom Westman won the game. Then I think it's Ozie loses at the end. Colby loses at the end. Brad Culpepper, that's the one that you forget, loses at the end. And Terry. He was cut.

Didn't make it to the end. Yeah. It's quite interesting. He's the reason we have final three. It's quite interesting that some of them actually do get to the end and not get the votes. Mostly, yeah. Half of them literally did, yeah.

That's a good stat. That's the season where Aussie did that. Brad Culpepper lost in the end of game changes, and Colby lost at the end. That's a good stat. That's an interesting stat because it goes so – Not what you think. Proves my point about getting a room at Trinity, doesn't it?

No. Kyle's not in that archetype, though, because people did want to vote for Carl. What, you're saying people didn't want to vote for Colby? Colby's a whole thing. I don't even know. I can't go back and litigate the whole Australian outback of it all. But, yeah, I mean, three people did vote for Colby. Three of seven.

You got pretty close. So did Ozzy, actually. Yeah, that's true. How many votes did Brad Culber get? One? Did he get one? I think he got more than that. Okay, I'm going to play the Chizzy theme song, and in that time, I'm going to look up how

many votes Brad Culber got. Alright, take it away, Jacob Sager-Weinstein and MC Color. One, two, three. One, one, one, three. One, two, one, two, three. It's getting, it's getting, it's getting kind of Chizzy. Three one two one one two three let's get let's get

let's get we got a chizzy three two one here's a chizzy

I couldn't look it up in time Nick do you have chizzy points I do have chizzy

points I'll give my chizzy points while you look it up okay

chizzy points oh wow okay did you get it no I'll just say my

chizzy points oh it was three books sierra debbie and aussie seven to three to zero there you go uh okay cheesy points uh i'm going to give three points to rachel i feel like she got had such a great episode not just with the the fact that she got a trinket and won an idol was just the the way she got herself there and we've already covered that with her getting to the uh putting herself up for the

barge and also the fact that a few weeks ago she was this big threat yet she's not considered one of the lions or the one of the top three so that's amazing three to rachel i'm going to give two to caroline for mending her relationship with Sue because of the backstory of how much, how good she has been in terms of cultivating that relationship, that like doing something so distrustful was able to be kind of mitigated against. And I'm going to give one point to Genevieve. Okay. I'm going to give one point to Genevieve because I truly believe that she is the biggest threat. And as I've said, the whole podcast ad nauseum I truly believe that she is the biggest threat and as I've said the whole podcast ad nauseum I think that she is the biggest threat um and because of that um I give her a point for surviving yet again that's like two votes that she's survived um so I I have faith

in Genevieve those are my points more faith than I do in Genevieve I mean not in Genevieve. Those are my points. I have more faith than I do in Genevieve. I mean, not in Genevieve, but in Genevieve's chances in this game. I do love Genevieve as a player. For me with Genevieve, you know, when she took out Sol and I was so high on it, I thought every week that Genevieve survives, I would give her chisely points for just being there because she shouldn't be.

But I didn't expect it to go this way. So long? No, it's just more like she's surviving, I think, because Gabe slash Tuku last week were a more pressing threat. so long well no it's just more like she's surviving i think because gabe slash two who last week were a more pressing threat and kyle with the challenges statistically you can look at it but also i think makes a lot of sense so it's not that she's mitigating that threat that that's that isn't that part of it she's mitigating the threat to be she is i mean i think she does do it subtly like we saw be like i I would vote for Kyle. And I,

and I also really liked the goat killing strategy, even though it didn't work that the kind of all the threats we're talking about, like working together and she really drives that. But I just think that there's not enough agency. Like last week, for sure. If she turns it around with Tuku, I would have been like that's a move for her because it puts her fate into her own hands. Ironically, Tuku might've taken her out this week, but at least last week it wouldn't have been a 50-50.

You know, like every week is just like, what are they going to do when everyone else decides her fate? And I don't know how much she's putting her thumb on that scale. Like I think they're making decisions that make sense for them. And I agree with those decisions. And it's just Genevieve isn't the most pressing target right now because she's been so depowered because she's, you know, broke in a social capital sense.

And she's been like, she's like, she's been like space jammed that's what it feels like so they took her basketball skills and she's on the court like you know like that's her power whereas like cars can salute the challenges that's how i feel about it um so i can't give a point to genevieve but i do you know if she can finally get a run where i feel like it's more in her hands i'd love to give her points again um but i'm going to, you know, stay pretty similar to you on the first two. Rachel, obviously we'll get three huge episode for Rachel. No notes. No notes. Great.

Loved her coming back with people and telling them loved her putting her hand up, you know, like a puzzle hates to see Rachel coming as well. Like never in doubt for her, like having to get the puzzle done. I think that she's exceptional at that. So three points for her, two points for Caroline, much higher on her chances than I was last week. Last week I said, I could only see in this order, Rachel, Teenie, Andy winning the game.

Now I'm like Rachel, Caroline and Teenie together. I thought it was a great edit for Caroline this episode. Now Andy's hugely fallen. So Caroline's like way up um from a story perspective from a game perspective I see the pathway a lot more I thought the recovery was excellent I even see parts of last week's move a little bit more even though I still disagree I'm maybe more on like 70 30 when I was all the way out on it last week um so yeah two points for Caroline there and then I really went back and forth on the one between teeny who i think is in a great spot this five makes so much sense for teeny well

connected across the board again it's the teenics rising from the ashes is a little bit more subtle than maybe we'd like but it's happening it's a slow burn um and then sue who i thought you know responded to caroline really well you know sue who's been so emotional, actually came back with Caroline in a really great way, responded so well to Rachel, gave that information back to really bond with Rachel. So I really thought about it from both of their perspectives. I think that Sue, I a way that wasn't optimal, wasn't super strategic, was highly emotional and doomed to go. So she's still dealing with the fallout of that.

I think it's a harder road for her. Whereas teeny, I think is in a path that could very much still be a winning game. So I gave the point to teeny. I apologize to great friend of the podcast, America, who really wanted me to give this point to you and made great arguments for it.

But I feel like teeny is in the spot that I think makes more sense and is well connected so the charts now genevieve's on 22 at the top of the charts soul went on 18 sam is on 16 andy's on 14 now we have rachel up to 13 teeny's up to 13 caroline's up to 11 sue Sue is on 9, and now everyone else, the rest of the charts is gone, actually. So, I mean, it's sold, and all the people kind of now getting high up in the chippy charts are still in the game, because then Rome left on 7, Gabe left on 4, Kyle was on 3

when he left, and Tiana and Asia on 1, and those are the charts. Why is Gabe's pile taller than Rome's? Because he's on top of the – these are the great charts. Randy Newple does these every week. Put them on Twitter. Blue Sky.

But, yes, what it is is that they're in their graph and Gabe is on top and all those people can't fit in their graph. Do you see what I mean? No. Look, Genevieve's in her graph oh the picture is in the graph gotcha but gabe can't fit in his graph so gabe and everyone below gabe can't so they're above their graph right so it's where the number is good job randy yes thank you so much randy for the charts and that's where we're at we had a question it was more true

of last week but this is permeated a little bit. I don't know how much this got to you. Jill asked, as an English teacher, Nick, shot in the dark or shots in the dark? Plural. Depends. Use it for me in a sentence. Like, we're just naming the-

We all gave up our shots in the dark. We all gave up our shot in the dark. Shot in the dark. our shots in the dark we all gave up our shot in the dark shot in the dark shots in the dark we all gave up our shot in the dark we all gave up our immunity idol we all gave up our immunity idols okay fine we three people played their shot in the Darks. Their idols. Shot in the Darks. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Okay, because this is in the debate. Shot in the Darks. Why? Because, okay, Josh Kettles is going to be so excited. I say he's the leader

of Shot in the Darks. He has gamed Shot in the Darks so hard, and he's the leader of it, and he says it's Shot in the Darks. And that sounds so bad. Because, so, this is my thought that when you like because you can hyphenate it shot half like dash in dash dark the dark shot it showed in the dark that's the a noun that's a noun it's called a noun group right it's got the modifier in it the adjective that there is the noun not the shot yeah that is what it is and because it's a noun group this is right yeah it's called a noun group yeah i've just did this in my sevens this week actually so that's where we're at we're out on grammar and math we're doing great

showing the ducks yeah yeah good there is there a non julia roberts of grammar same thing but it's just like you know apostrophes that's good because i mean yeah it is i think it is that because you never you don't play your shot you play a shot in the dark so it's the whole thing it's not like mothers in law where it's like on the but it's like it's like saying it's kind of like how like like how you can put like a like to make it now like well well connected or no that's not that's not a good example i can't think of the other example but there is like when you and you want to make like a noun with like you can put the dash and it the the it creates one singular noun group and everything within that acts as one block so yeah but wait and i'm thinking about it is it

like if i were to say they're my sisters-in-law, sister-in-laws, that's similar. Sister-in-laws. No, I would say sisters-in-law. No, that's not right though. Yeah, because they're not my sister, they're my sister. But no, that sounds terrible. I'm back on Shots in the Dark. No.

I would say sisters-in-law. You've just proven that it is exactly sister-in-laws. Yeah, and it sounds awful. I have one sister-in-law, two sister-in-laws. Oh, it's awful. Oh, the English language is bad. Yeah, that's true. Okay, next question.

Okay. No, well, that was the only question I had. That was the only question? I had lots of questions. We answered the questions. We answered about Genevieve's emotionality and about – well, who's your winner pick right now, Nick? Where do you think it's going to about well who's your winner pick right now nick what's where do you think it's gonna go who's my winner pick yeah

who's your who's what's the or who what's your percentages what's your who do you see is the top of the food chain what's bad to be the food at the top of the food chain i want genevieve to win and then after genevieve that's not what i asked them to win and then i want andy to win so those are the three people that I want to win. Who do I think will win? I think Teenie might win. So then how can you say... Because you're talking about Teenie versus Caroline.

I don't think Caroline's going to get to the end. I think Caroline has bought herself a ticket to that kind of 4-5 spot, which is devastating. That's just fire. At devastating. That's just fire. At 4, it's just fire. Still not a million dollars. Was for some. Can be, unfortunately.

I don't know. I don't see it. I think Tini's going to win. Yeah, May asked, who are your winner picks? How can you say Tini? What about Rachel? It's clearly Rachel. I think that the the threat will get too high i think that of the rest of them the people that are left i think that her threat will become so big because of all the things she just needs to play one idol then it's like oh and she's got an idol you know and then it's you know i could see it i could definitely see it i actually also want

rachel to win i forgot her in the other previous list i could but i i'm not uh convinced i think that she's going to be our fallen angel the one who was like she always don't don't because rachel is my draft pick i don't know if this permeated but i haven't won the draft and i need my sanity um is she your only person left yeah i. I had TK and Kishan. It didn't start well, but it could end very well. And I really need to know how it's going to go. But don't you have like a really high percentage of like placement? Yeah, this is average draft placement.

I do. Not this season. This season's my second worst average draft placement, but I could win, but I don't know if I should pre-order my tiara. Don't pre-order your tiara don't pre-order your tiara you think that that would be too cocky yes but i want to be able to wear it on the night if she wins and then like shipping might take a while to get here i think if you pre-order your tiara you've signed her definitely

this is like when i make someone my winner pick like it's deserved we'll see how it goes i'm gonna curse her in the past if i order my tiara i might do it we'll see how we'll see the next couple of weeks go but we know because we will know because if you have a tiara on we'll know that you gambled with her life just to have a shot of you with a tiara yeah not not a not a shots plural just shot in the darks but all right fine i won't you know if someone sends me a tiara how would they get my address i'm open to gifts i'm open to receiving tiaras i don't want to curse rachel guys it's so she can now say someone sent it to her and that yeah 100 100 it's fine it's fine you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna google closest place to

get a tiara and then on the night i was joking i know you're not i know you're not no one could ever question no no one could we went to places was this good this was great i loved it thank you but sitting up in this position is for this long is really sore, so I kind of need to log off and give my appendix. You don't have an appendix. It's really sore. You can't blame the appendix anymore. Stop blaming the appendix.

All right, well, everyone, on Thanksgiving, thank Nick for coming here a week after he was in hospital for reasons I found out about eventually. Came here, gave his takes, his hot idol takes. Do you have anything else or are we done? No, I have nothing, but thank you everyone for listening. Yeah, plug your blue sky. Oh yeah, I joined blue sky and I like it. I think it's really fun and calm and exciting and interesting and people are nice and there's lots of good book content and lots of good nature content and lots of reality TV content.

And those are the only three things that I really engage with on Instagram. Books, social media, books and reality TV. That's it. Yeah, and a photo of my cat. I've got some good book. Can I give some good book recommendations? Okay. i just finished reading two awesome books that i think lots of people need to read i think you need to read horse if you haven't read horse by geraldine brooks and life after life by kate atkinson just wanted to throw that out there two great books

anyway that's all like in your book join me on blue sky join me on blue sky join me everywhere you know i put yeah so i put up a photo of my cat. On Blue Sky, I got 1,100 likes. On Twitter, I got like 20 likes. Why does Twitter hate my cat? It was a really cute photo of Angelica. Anyway, that's a terrible place. Well, yeah, that's the worst thing Twitter's ever done,

was not validating Angelica enough. Blue Sky, Twitter, Instagram. We put the cheesy charts up at channing gates follow me next week i will be here on not here but actually ironically really not well i'll be in this room but in the feed i will be on the after show with evie well everyone's in houston so that's what i'm doing next week no global because it's the after show um yeah follow me subscribe to international spider happens feed watch us on youtube all the things nick thank you so much thank you for doing videos sitting here hope your appendix is well not your appendix but the rest of you is okay thank you so much guys thanks for listening

along and i will be trying to follow along on blue sky now that i'm back in the world of social media so i look forward to seeing everyone realize that they were wrong to not take out Genevieve this week. Bye. Okay, well, thank you, everyone. Thanks for our team behind the scenes. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Happy Thanksgiving to our American listeners.

And I will see you on the After Show next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye you. Survive. Survive. 21 South African.

12 ordinary Australians. Sustain New Zealand. Give me the swammer. One million pounds. Million euros. Million shakali. A million rubles. Try this boat.

Try this boat. Try this boat. Try this boat.