RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: Leverage, Threats and Apologies | S47 Ep 4 with Thoriso M-Afrika

Episode Date: October 12, 2024

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss speaks to Survivor South Africa's Thoriso M-Afrika about Survivor 47 episode 4, including the major strategic decisions in the vote, the interesting journey and idol hunt, bad apologies, what makes a threat and more.

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All Porter fares include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. One million pounds. Million euros. Hello everyone and welcome to RHAB's coverage of Survivor Global for Survivor 47. I'm your host Shannon Guss, here to talk about episode 4 of Survivor 47. It was a very good episode, there was a lot going on and I feel like we summoned a couple of things. Firstly, Genevieve. Last week I was like, wow, if this is all because of Genevieve, then she is like a social queen who is being badly, badly

done by the edit. And I did not necessarily expect it was that to that extreme. And it was, we'll talk about that. And then obviously with the new era, lost votes, someone who lost a couple of votes, you know, through her survivor trajectory. So we're always going to trigger that. And someone who I love to talk about survival with, it is the great Teresa from Africa. Teresa, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me, Shannon. No, thank you.

I mean, and also I feel like when you're on the podcast, we summon great episodes because at least the last couple, we had the Sabai episode, which is I think one of the great New Year of pre-merge episodes. This episode, I think best episode of the season. Like there's something you're doing that is good luck. Or more what you're doing in terms of your scheduling. Definitely the best episode so far in the season.

Yeah. It was fantastic. I know. Well, we got lucky. And I think it's been a really fun season so far. And this, you know, builds on that because it was a great episode. No, I thoroughly enjoyed it. And how it's one of those, I don't know if I was too quick to jump into it.

Actually, it's like the minute you kind of had that confessional with Rome saying, I'm 110% that Saul is going home I knew that Saul is not going home something else was going to happen 100% 110% but then he got like out-confidenced by Kishan who had similar confessionals and then that was it for him that is the thing it was like this is a beautiful episode because everything about it was saying that, leading up to that monumental moment in the episode. But it was almost like I kind of sensed he was so confident, bordering on cocky, actually, because you know what happens?

I have personal experience in this in terms of playing the game, bordering on cocky, actually, because you know what happens. I have personal experience in this in terms of playing the game, is that when you are in the dominant alliance, there's a level of confidence that you have. And when you're so sure about what's going on, it almost oozes out of you. You almost have to have a way to check in on yourself because it comes out in your tone and how you handle the people you're playing with so that was that was really worrying

for him but it was almost a bit too obvious for a CBS edit for it to have been him I don't I don't know that's the sense that I got yeah well it was difficult with the edit because the montage that they showed of Kishan where Jen's like thinking back on clearly what you're saying which is you know his way obviously she doesn't know that he has said these things about her but as you're saying in his demeanor and in some of his actions she can sense you know being the decoy of the decoy, small things like that. And he's saying to us, like, I'm working with Jen, but I want to make her vulnerable. Like we can hear the kind of working with her,

but like in kind of robbing her of her agency, we know that. And that's clearly like exuding from him. So that the point where she's like playing that all back and it's like a proper, like evil villain montage, it's like, Oh, Kishan is definitely gone. So I'm grateful that we had you know such a such clarity around these plans i'm grateful for the moment i know but there was no way it wasn't going to be him after he had like the evil villain like twirly mustache montage this guy's gone like it's done no it was so beautiful and sticking his face up and the voice i was

in that confessional it was like penny drop it is it is the crazy thing about the season is that for me the theme is like brutal humiliating montages like he sean had andy had in this episode roma's had several and um it's just like the worst thing that could happen to a human being i think it's just like them packaging up your could happen to a human being I think it's just like them packaging up your worst moments to play it over like usually dodo music and it's just like that would be so much worse than like any other fate I think that you could suffer on Survivor is to have that happen to you it's the worst and that's the thing it's it's almost like and the crazy thing about it because again at this point in time there's so many super fans that

get cast you've seen it happen so many times and to find yourself in exactly the same position with the same confessional knowing that that you've seen that a hundred times for some reason you don't think it will happen to you in the moment it was it was a piece of magic yeah it was unfortunate for some and it was good tv before we get into all of that Teresa how are you how's how's everything for you oh I'm fantastic I'm a Capetonian now for about maybe you were last time what you were about to, I was going to move. How is it? In the Eastern Cape, it is the most magnificent city in the world, I think.

It explains why so many of us are moving here. It's absolutely gorgeous. And I'm loving it. We've settled in so well here. But very happy. That's awesome. I'm loving it. We've settled in so well here. But very happy. That's awesome. I'm jealous. I feel like, yeah, there is a great Cape Townian crew.

LaRue is there. Dino moved there. You're there. I want to be there. Yes. I was there. I lived in Cape Town for like nine months. You were, hey.

Yeah, but I was seven. I'm just trying to think who else is here from across the aisle. It's LaRue. It's Dino. It's Shona is on the side. That's a fun group. It really is. Probably a lot more people, but those are the people who I've been in contact with. Well, I love that.

I'm jealous of it. I'm glad that it's all working out and you're always I feel like you're always so connected to US Survivor and like always watching and so yeah what are your like macro thoughts we're saying we're enjoying the season but like what are your kind of macro thoughts on on the season so crazy when you chatted to me about coming to do this I probably hadn't watched the last two seasons and I had just started um immediately proved incorrect pardon you didn't watch the last season yeah no I didn't watch the last season oh and then they really spoiled it in that montage that Gabe did yes but I had just started about about three weeks ago with season 41 because it's on Showmates.

So I was like, okay, this is now my opportunity to sit down and watch, you know, Year Survivor in preparation for season 50 because I don't want to have that backlog when like an epic season comes to you and it's a returning season. So, and then you got in touch with me. So I was probably about halfway through watching season 41 again. Yeah, but we've talked about most of the seasons, I feel. Yeah, we have.

So you missed a lot. Did you finish 45? 45? No, I didn't finish 45. I went up to 44. Well, you've missed the best parts. That was all the good ones. 44, you probably could have... I need to catch up. Yeah. Yeah, but it's also, it's quite delayed on our side. And I think that was what it was.

When I went on to show my clock, I was like, like sure I've got like five six seasons to get through which is it's quite a lot but uh I I generally can do that okay forget everything I said about about you always watching it I thought that you were always like watching all the seasons no I I've just had a whirlwind of a year I think is what has happened and it's just been I haven't I just haven't had time this time around that's fair with the move and yeah but but so are you enjoying this season though I loved it I loved it I love I love the casting of US Survivor. It's quite, and I do, I think I said it in a previous podcast that we did, that it's really with the new era and getting a lot more super fans, it does allow, it kind of forces a next level of thinking

that just elevates the game in a completely different way. And I suppose that's why it is new, you know. That's why it's so fascinating. I mean, we'll obviously get to see Australian Survivor later on in the year. How that's going to play out when you have so many old school sort of players playing in that season yeah I mean I do think that that speaks to this episode right like so many super fans who are going to their second tribal council and the pre-merge and there's still like a plan

on a plan on a plan that's very advanced but that's how kind of keyed in he he shone in that, you know, these players are. And I'd love to talk about Jen because she's obviously at the heart of all of this. What are your thoughts on Jen kind of through the season until now? Because she emerged kind of out of nowhere and I think not in the game. She emerged from the edit out of nowhere. And I really want to talk about that because I feel like she's been doing a lot and we just haven't seen it. So yeah.

What are you kind of thinking about Jen? I do get a sense that she was obviously not going to be in any kind of danger, but the fact that Kishan felt the need to take away her agency and feel that there wouldn't be any cutback, I thought it was quite questionable. You know, is it a question of him having misread her?

Or if it, I suppose it depends on if it solely comes down to that moment where she realises her name is the one thrown out. Does it mean that she couldn't see what he was doing all along uh but i think she was definitely a player that's socially been so insulated um that you know you kind of had the emergence of the other bigger personalities coming out in that in that three-person alliance. Yeah. And that's probably what she was a victim of in terms of the edit, I think, more than her not necessarily being a capable player because obviously we've seen that now play out.

I mean, the very fact that they felt secure enough to pitch a name in the name of Romeo, someone who she is admittedly quite close to and everyone is aware of it, and get a sense that they could feel that she would be okay with that idea, which she did seem okay with it at some point in the game, but had to revisit it when it was quite clear that, you know, it would take away her agency moving forward in the game. And, of course, the fact that, I mean, she did the impossible.

Well, I suppose the question is, the question of whether was it her or was it Rome or was it a question of Sol feeling like she didn't have an option, they did make it work and it happened. So it's a combination of those things. But I don't think it would have necessarily happened without her at the center of it. Yeah, I mean, I agree. And I also think, you know, hearing the exit interview from, well, the exit interviews from Kishan,

I think, you know, hearing the exit interview from, well, the exit interviews from Kishan, you know, now we know that such a major reason that they didn't go with Asia's soul side last week and voted Asia out was because of how much they wanted to work with Genevieve. I have a lot of thoughts on that, but I feel like that is such incredible social work that there's no real excuse for the edit not showing it because it actually made this tribe really confusing and wasn't true to what was happening so i think it's kind of worse tv where they accurately could have showed me how this big bond with genevieve and that's the work she's doing and she's going to win that battle really decisively we also have a foursome and this possible pair with asia and soul and that would have been an interesting storyline anyway and true to what was happening and we would have understood it where then would have built it this week in actuality of what the dynamics were so I don't think that there's an excuse for the edit not to show that and really blur those dynamics um I think that that is probably my biggest criticism of the season to this point in the way that it's been

constructed but for Genevieve she's so she's a huge part of even being here today you know like they could get rid of her last week and they choose not to, not out of fear, but well, maybe there was a little bit of that, but like mostly it seems due to wanting to work with her. And I think that's phenomenal because I think that that is really bad for Tini and Kishan and amazing for Genevieve. Like I said last week, if that's the reason and we're not seeing it somehow, then that would be really, really bad for them to give

her the option of Rome Genevieve and the vote steal I feel like Tini and Kishan liked her so much and trusted her and underestimated her and misread her so much that they flipped the leverage where they could take out Genevieve even if they like her more they still like Asia and Sol and they could have you know taken her out and then Asia and Sol are never going to work with Rome and they still have that leverage where Asia and Sol relying on them now they were fully relying on Genevieve Genevieve at any point could flip on them flip with Rome Rome and Genevieve had all the power with the vote steal so they actually minimized their own agency gave all the power to Genevieve and misread that she would use it against them so huge criticisms on that misread and on that I guess like falling for Genevieve's likability where she outplayed I think you know

two seemingly very competent players in Tini and Keyshawn yeah so I'm very harsh on it and I'm very very high on Genevieve and how she worked through last week to even get to the point where this is something she could do and she was just so ridiculously socially insulated here yeah there's so much of it that actually does go back to the previous episode in terms of the decision that they made yes and and and whether or not I mean if it was something they were going to consider I suppose they couldn't have gone for Rome because everybody knew they had an idol. They couldn't go for Rome. They wanted to go for Rome. And then they happened because they couldn't.

They were choosing between Genevieve and the pair, and they chose Genevieve. And that is a decision I think they are regretting probably. But wasn't there a dialogue where they questioned the possibility of Rome playing his idol on Genevieve? And that was part of of yes discussing around that yeah so that's our whole discussion last week yeah there was so that was we discussed last week around splitting the vote having it live in case of the vote steal like the threat

now in the exit interviews Kishan is saying that they invented that threat to protect Genevieve they never thought that Rome would play the idol on Genevieve, which I think we said was fair. They invented it to protect Genevieve. It's even worse. Like it's so, oh my, it's killing me. Because like, what do you mean you invented the threat to protect her, to give her all the power

and just say, Genevieve, fingers crossed, like you have all the power and we're in your hands. We just don't think that those hands are going to crush us. then they did it blows my mind like they invented the thing that we tied ourselves in knots to work around for them and they created it for her and we didn't even see her and she was that purple it's actually an outrage but anyway i have so many thoughts i just can't believe that because it's spending 20 minutes on Challenger well no I mean like they have

90 minutes and even more I think that it's been fun but how did they leave Genevieve she's so crucial and they just left her out I don't even know and that should be I suppose it was this was her coming out party and then her rise to prominence in this episode.

But I think it's also probably because even with that, I would still say in that tribe that the tension between Saul and Rome still got more screen time because so much hinged around that. So what you have as a scenario, that dynamic is so big within the tribe um they have to give us the bits and pieces every single step from you know Romeo is so adamant that Saul must go home and Saul disliking him and and just like the arrogance around it where the way in which he talks to him is so belittling

and then him having to go on an apology to her afterwards yes we can talk about that apology that's how you should apologize to someone I'm sorry if you got the impression that I

yeah that's not an apology that was why I got the sense that there's no way that he bought into that he voted for him because he felt he had no choice I think it was more of that than him

actively flipping to working with Romeo yeah I want to talk about that from Sol's perspective but before we get to Sol so but okay this is very impressive from Genevieve is it the right move for Genevieve like Genevieve is tight with Kishan and Teenie and has some now like number ones in obviously rome and also soul that she's created in this episode um a lot of good options for someone who again is like apparently the puppet master doing all of this and is that socially ingratiated do you think because i feel like on one in one hand you have what she has now which is like more individual more cut up she still has something with teeny she's obviously got rome she's got soul but none of them have each other but she's really close to all of them so

she's at the center but it's not a group and it's like individual bonds whereas like if she does vote out rome then like souls on the bottom she's definitely making a merge because she's like third and then she has like kind of a three with teeny and kishan and maybe like a bit of like a fraction four with soul so it's kind of like the group versus like being at the center of the individual stuff and so and obviously she makes a big move to get there so that speaks for itself um and then like there's obviously the duality of working with Rome and having him here versus working with Keyshawn and how he feels about her so there's a lot to consider around if this was even good for her to do beyond how impressive it was that she got to do it uh I think it was the right decision, actually.

I toyed around with this because, one, I think we've discussed the whole question around her agency. She has far more agency in this situation where she's in a position where pretty much everyone who's left there has a working relationship with her. So she's at the center and basically nothing can happen without her in the sense that between Rome and Saul,

the friction there is such that on both their sides, they refuse to work with each other. We'll see if something changes during the course of the season where they can put that aside. There's so much tension that's been built there. It's pretty clear that they've reached the point of no return between the two of them.

And then I think she's capable of pivoting with Tini because I think that's actually probably the most significant relationship that she has to go back and urge her and obviously because she felt she's lost her number one and she, and if she had any idea, I mean, you know, her decision at the journey,

it affected, it came from a place of strength and actually realized that making that decision could have created these options. Maybe she would have approached that differently. So I think, and then of course there's Rome. He's just saved Rome. And he was the guy who was about to go home. So he's attached to her, to the hip.

And if there's a single person in that tribe that he's likely to be loyal to, it would be her. So I think she's incredibly insulated. I think it was a very well-calculated move. I do think, though, it is dependent on how she manages the fallback and what subsequently happens with Tini and with Sol, because the reality of it is that they will both realize that if Genevieve and Rome are a pair,

they're going to have to make something work with either one of them. So she is in a position where she is the kingmaker. Yes, and she has relationships with people like Rome. Rome doesn't have another relationship in the game and he may never have another relationship in the game given the type of play that rome is yeah so and he finds someone else that who like i don't like this even making it to merge i still don't see that there's a lot of potential necessarily for him to make relationships and this is what i criticized on teeny teeny and he shown last week thinking that they were

choosing the Rome Genevieve pair when they apparently were kind of always going back to Rome although teeny on the journey felt it was maybe between the two but um I said you know like you're going to be with someone who is a shield but who can't necessarily make relationships so if there's a if there's a big kind of con to this move for Genevieve I think it isn't having to work with Rome long term I do think if anyone could do it it does seem to be her because clearly her social game is like beyond anything we can possibly even remotely understand from a human being um given you know the what she's achieved in that so I think that's the biggest con on everything else I think she made the right move because

because of her agency like I wouldn't do it because Kishan has the resume like it's the pre-merge but I would do it on Kishan's deciding my fate Kishan has an approach as you're saying a demeanor and energy exuded that you know diminishes her agency my name will be thrown out Tini's name won't be thrown out um I'm you know I'm the third which might be comfortable but again it's just putting your game into their hands which she doesn't need to do she has the power here to flip that um so and also i think that that group is still small you still need to build allies you're still not having majority at the merge so considering it's not like giving up a majority for the individual relationships i think like several pairs compared to like a three

you may as well go with the pairs and it's so impressive and you get the agency which I think is you know is good for her I will say I kind of feel like it was a 60-40 decision like staying with Keyshawn and Tini is still fine they are really really tight with her um but I think she's in the position where she has the luxury of choosing a number one in Rome or what might have been Seoul if he'd been a target, you know, where she's their number one, where she's a number two for Tini and Kishan. Being someone's number two is actually pretty good. Being the decoys, decoys plan isn't that bad. And, you know, having a plan where Rome's going to be the target, maybe that's the biggest red flag, but she's a part of that too.

All of that is kind of fine, but she's in the position where all the options were good, which speaks to her position and she can choose a slightly better option. And I think it's 60, 40. And I think she erred to the right side, but like, honestly, they were both, they were both fine because she was in this tribe where every single person in the tribe had her top one or two. And that's a very good position to be making decisions from.

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Conditions apply. Air Transat. Travel moves us. I also think that, I think for me, it's also mind-blowing how, no matter how much survival we watch, players don't learn that throwing people's names out can be such a game-changing dynamic to it. And if you're going to have to be that person to do that,

at least be the one to communicate it to the person. In that way, you're in a position where you can manage it better. I think, I mean, we've all watched so much survival where people think they're safe or they're in with people. And then that's not necessarily the case. By throwing someone's name out there, you immediately introduce the question of what is actually happening? What if what I think is happening is not what's happening?

And that's when the processing of, okay, maybe this is not the best thing for me. And I think that that's, that's Kashan's era on this one. Yeah. I think it was the little, the little moments that like revealed intention and the intention is I want to work with her where I'm in control and that's not what she wanted.

He didn't realize he was revealing that because it is subtle and he does want to work with her. But when I hear him in confessional hearing language, you know, the language around it, you know, I want to work with her but when i hear him in confessional hearing language you know the language around it you know i want to separate her from rome that makes her vulnerable it's not the kind of working relationship i would want versus now everyone's vulnerable to her so he was revealing parts of that in small things even like being the decoys decoy the hierarchy was clear and and fatini and kishan they're like we thought you know we saw it as pairs asia said it was pairs but also possibly that we were three with genevieve but if they if she knows that and she does she knows she's the third maybe she doesn't want to be the third wheel um we're to

the point where if kishan can only throw out two names teeny and her it's her so it's all of the little things again in a game that is marginal because all the options are good but they do exist and i do think i'm always a fan of kind of like grabbing your own agency when you're in the power position to do so and like making good on that if you can and also just the the process of just keeping someone on who's not going to be able to work with anyone else. Not only on their shield, but in the sense that... Also, it was fun.

Pardon? It was also fun. It really is, because he has been... Rome has been so entertaining as well. It would have been really sad to see him go home. So I can't picture what would happen. I think someone like Rome is going to go pretty deep, actually,

because there are elements of delusions of grandeur that just show you that he's probably not really as aware of what's going on as he believes he is well I should think so given that he was going home you know five minutes before the end of this episode and you know Genevieve Genevieve to be fair saves him because she wants her relationship with Rome so he's he's doing that like you have to credit the relationship that he has with Genevieve, to be fair, saves him because she wants her relationship with Robes. So he's doing that. You have to credit the relationship that he has with Genevieve, where she's going to vouch for him and kind of put him first there. But he had no idea that he was about to be blindsided, you know, use the vote steal wrong.

He's putting everything into teeny-kishon. He's not even saying, I want to keep the vote steal, because what if we get to four and we're two pairs? But he'd definitely be gone. You know, let alone he's not even going to make it there. Even how he read the previous tribal council was incorrect, his understanding of what had happened. Yeah.

Yeah, well, they were doing it to get him out next. And he's like, I want to keep this for our lives. Like Stephen was saying, he was so shocked and heartbroken that he'd given everything to the alliance and they were not working with him. he was about to go home so yeah he like if anything for Rome the things were not going nearly as well as he thought they were going yeah right I have I'm really fascinated to see how he ends up do you think he's more likely to gravitate towards Saul or Tini um after this either either I feel like because he's got a broken heart and he his disdain for Saul is like

media unjustified but it's it's so much that he just I think he can't help himself but be nasty to him yeah there's two moments that make me laugh um the first one is when he's walking with soul to threaten slash give an ultimatum to soul and he's like okay this is gonna be scary and soul's like what that part so that speaks to that relationship and then the other part is like i was when i was watching the episode and kishan's giving his final words and they're like holding up the vote he's like roman's like angry when he's like voting you can tell he's mad so and how that will kind of like play out with teeny i think he doesn't have anyone but Genevieve and I think that that that bond we can credit but beyond that there are issues like what do you think about

Roman this episode he's at 110 all the time you know full tilt completely almost gives new meaning to full tilt won't let Sol basically even go to the bathroom at this point. Is that how he needs to play? Are we criticizing the clear social misplays? He's just, he's an insane character. Actually, he's so awkward and completely unaware of it. I think to the point that what I read into it was that the level of aggression was such that it was so uncomfortable

to watch, to watch. So you could have a buddy system on steroids and not be that aggressive, you know. But the fact that he was so in your face, I'm going to be here and aggressive. I think it's the underlying aggression that I thought, oh, this guy is really, this relationship is, it's beyond anything else. It's beyond anything else.

And my question around it is, you know, I think it's not a question more. I think it's, again, a reflection of what happens to people when they think they're safe in the game, when they feel like they're insulated. Because remember, in terms of where he was, he felt that he was in the safest alliance. He loved his people. He felt that they were reliable. And so because of that, he was othering the people on the out. And that's what was manifesting. So you just need to go. He hasn't thought beyond what happens when Saul leaves.

He hasn't even processed that or how is this coming off because it's I suppose yeah I think for about five minutes when you do get on onto the island you are very conscious in terms of how you you want to appear on tv and then you kind of forget that because once you're in the game and he's clearly completely unaware. There's no sense of awareness. And that's probably part of what is to the benefit of Genevieve is that she's in a position where she can hold his hand and coach him through, okay, this is what you need to do.

And he trusts her to do that. I don't think he'll listen to her. Pardon? I don't know that he's going to listen to her. He did apologize, I suppose, because he's lying. I can't call that an apology, Teresa. This is what he said if i came off threatening or whatever you may think or whatever you may think see this is the

issue this is that's not an apology if i came off threatening there's no accountability or whatever you may think so the onus is on how soul is perceiving that and receiving it and not on i'm sorry that even that okay this is even to flip the light I'm sorry that I made you feel threatened I made you like put the onus on you when you're apologizing apologize for your actions and not that you may think whatever it's not that's not an apology you know yes I agree with you it's not an apology but he did it's a bad apology it's a really bad he did do it because he felt he had to but can I say you and you have a child so this is this is what he honestly seemed like when like a parent tells a child like go apologize like

you couldn't look him in the eye he was in and out beyond even the way it did that track like have you had that in your own parenting where it's like you apologize to that person and it's like you apologize to that person and it's like no i'm interested that i can relate to you but he did it he did it yeah i can't give points for an apology like that it isn't an apology he did he did do it he did i think that like you know he like at the point though when genevieve comes in his own self-interest and is like, I'm the person you trust most on the speech and they're all turning on you. He has to turn firstly on Kishan. So that's the first thing. He doesn't necessarily need, they don't need Sol's number at all.

And I'm sure they're aware of that from a, you know, you can count it on one hand kind of vote structure. But if, you know, maybe there is a bit of how Genevieve can kind of control Rome at the point where she's like, I want Sol, and he does it, even though they don't need the number. So that is a credit. I think a small credit. I think for Rome, like, I back that he needs to be at 110% all the time, because that's the Rome gameplay. So when he's following Sol, like, he does need to follow Sol. It's so scary. If I was with him on a beach, I'd be so worried, because he's need to fall it's so scary if i was with him on a beach i'd be so worried because he's so volatile he's so he's so out there it's it's it's the type of personality that that's okay if you're the person working with them and nobody knows about it and you're the person they trust and nobody knows about it. But you can't even get to a point where you can talk

that type of personality through what you're thinking in terms of brainstorming ideas around what must happen in terms of the moves in the game. And so for me, the only value they add is that they're a number and they're a shield. A very loyal number, I think, to someone like Genevieve. Yes. Who could possibly find trinkets that will help her.

Well, they use the trinket now very well. Yeah, exactly. The trinket is possibly what determined the outcome of this yeah yeah so yeah and then that's why i think he needs he needs to make sure he's guarding someone like soul he needs to make sure he's the one looking he's the one finding and that is anti-social but i don't think it needs to be rude like there are definitely ways he can soften that i do think it needs to be extreme even like wow you look really bad not letting Saul go sit on the beach just to have a break and people are like he's not treating Saul

like a human but to his credit to be fair when Saul goes and sits on the beach we see him making that very pivotal bond with Genevieve so yeah like leaving him alone is bad unfortunately you do have to babysit him in this really really patronizing way but I do think that there are things that no one can justify which is the way he talks to him and the extremity of that which I think you could do much softer you have to be on top of him like that I think that was I just couldn't breathe just watching that thinking to myself oh my word can't he just at least you know meter two meters personal space and I think that was the bit that that just like made me cringe and made everyone else uncomfortable what do you do think about stealing Kishan's vote because I feel like the duality of that is if Kishan has an idol he will play it but there is the very social thing and this has to be Genevieve's influence and

idea of like you can steal Sol's vote still even if Sol's in on the plan you can steal the vote because then we're going to blindside Kishan but I think that socially after everything that had happened was like you know such a great apology trying to bridge that for Sol considering his vote to him was a shot in the dark I think know, as a potential ally in the hope of bridging that, taking away his agency of using a shot in the dark, if he so chooses, I think would have really upset him, even if they don't vote him out. So there's like that social kind of option in, you know, going with that. But then what you're doing and doing that is alerting Keyshawn. So there's the risk of that so did you like they took Kishan's vote I think that was the correct decision and I think it was calculated in the sense that it hinged on whether or not they thought Kishan had or didn't have an idol and I

think that comes down to the relationship that Genevieve would have had. You can only make a decision like that based on a measure of certainty in terms of what is where in the trial. So I do think it was the correct one, correct decision, only because Genevieve had managed socially the relationships to the extent that she would have known had Kishan had something yeah I agree I think that it's worth like a small risk for what um Genevieve

especially is trying to do in bringing Sol in um and again you mentioned so let's talk about it from Sol's perspective because you mentioned that soul you know he has to do this right like yeah like he knows at the point where kishan's vote has been stolen that it's not him because if it was him they just wouldn't they wouldn't even give him the chance to play sean the dark there's no point trying to blindside him when you could just completely suffocate his whole game and take away his vote um he knows that they have three votes to do it. So he's either piling on with, at this point, the majority or not. So we don't actually know if Sol would want to do it.

We see them having the conversation and we see, yeah, we see three votes that are going to be anyway on Kishan and then Sol piling on. Do you think he would have? I'm like, I'm a little bit up in the air about that one. I'm also up in the air. I feel that's probably the missing part in the edit, that they could have given us a greater sense of what he felt subsequently when he felt that he didn't have a choice. I do get the sense that he doesn't trust them. He's obviously not going to work with them moving forward, but feels that he must play the game in order to place himself.

Sorry. Can I play? No. No. Why? No. Ask him to come on here and give his world's best apology. Teresa, sign this here.

Hello, you're on video. This is in the podcast now. Okay. Please, I'm all... I'll give you a shot and I'm good, okay? Sorry, you're almost... The answer is no. Sorry, you're almost...

No. No. I need the apology. I need to see who's better a nine year old in the video oh my he's a star now um so where was I

we're talking about soul yeah soul so I get the sense that and this is where social game, I have come to learn probably more in my second outing on the game than the first time I played that, sure, the social game is so much more important than people actually realize because there's a very real consequence to having people

not wanting to have you around. Just being the guy that nobody wants to have around limits you in so, so many ways. I mean, if it were anyone else in Rome's position and there hadn't been an existing tension, he could have given it half a thought and there'd be potential for a future relationship, future alliance moving forward. But what I think is going to happen is that come merge time, these guys are probably going to be more fractured than any of the other tribes by the looks of things, not just because

of this decision, but it will be a question of wherever Genevieve goes is more likely to be the side that will dominate in the post-marriage. If she's smart, I mean, which we know she is. She's established that. What's a lot to manage. It's a great situation where you're not picking off anyone else. And I also think, okay, we'll talk about that when we get to the journey but but I think to get to a point where you are the guy that one guy is completely not prepared

to work with is really speaks to how poor your social game is the Rome Rome or for Sol? No, no, no, for Rome. You never want to create that situation. I mean, from anything else that we've gotten, I don't think Sol did anything wrong. Yeah, it's hard to put it on Sol. I don't, obviously.

He's not antagonizing him. Is there something we're missing? Maybe we're not seeing in there that caused this. If anything, he has the patience of a saint. Like, I really loved Sol's incredulousness through this entire episode. Like, he was just like,

am I being punked right now? Like, is this like an elaborate prank where I get put on this tribe with Rome and this is actually a paid actor? Because it can't be real. And I really enjoyed that energy from Sol the whole time so I do think yeah it's gonna matter how Genevieve manages it and it's very very tricky and she probably has to make a choice at a point and I think that could be Sol like if this tribe goes back to tribal council I think

maybe like it depends on how Rome acts coming back from this Rome could be cut Tini could be cut I actually think Sol will least be cut so whether Sol was going to do it or not I do think we have to commend Sol that he wasn't as on the bottom as we thought they were going to go for Rome so that already is like better than I thought then he so then they're going for him so that and now he's also manifested that or like built that from being what would have been next out had they and again we don so that and now he's also manifested that or like built that from being what would have been next out had they and again we don't know if he he's really doing this is this on genevieve but he through a combination of things through genevieve and also through making the relationship with genevieve i think now is like probably top two where he should have been maybe even out here and definitely would have been next on the chopping block if they go back to

tribal if they were to before emerge and it was like teeny like Tini, Kishan, Genevieve, and then him. So he's really built that. And I think the most impressive thing that he did was definitely the bond with Genevieve. I thought that was really great. And I think that could be almost the winning duo at this point, which is kind of shocking where we sided with the two of them.

So I really hope he said yes to Genevieve because I think she's his lifeline and I hope that Genevieve you know a lot of what she was doing was contingent I think we kind of heard her kind of verbalize that on Sol wanting to do it even though she didn't need him from a numbers perspective so I'm just hoping that he would have done it and Genevieve knew it and it was more collaborative and you know she can do it anyway without him but then as we're saying there are cut up numbers and then the soul relationship isn't as close but if she's really getting soul in and she's gone out of her way when she doesn't need his number to bring him in if she's really like relying on that I think that makes it especially good and makes the decision even clearer in doing this whereas if soul wasn't into

it then maybe you think okay let me you know if he's like i will never like he's never going to work with rome anyway but like he's if he's like even feels distant from you then maybe you want to kind of connect more to like teeny and kishan specifically than just kind of having rome and maybe teeny it just it corners her a little bit whereas now it feels like she has a really good soul option a really strong Rome option and a possible even Tini option so I hope for her it even pushed a pretty tweener decision anyway made that stronger and that soul also wanted to do it because it bettered his position so so much and would have done it anyway but we don't know because his number was irrelevant and he knew and also you get the sense that Genevieve held back you know when when he said he doesn't want to work with Rome and she didn't push and actually come out and say we can't do this without you

yes she didn't give him a threat or ultimatum vote for Rome or Rome's going home I mean vote vote for Kishan or Kishan's going home anyway that's that's how you get the knowledge branch actually it's actually crazy how much the opposite is true she didn't need his vote and was so much like so collaborative and made him probably feel important which is which is unbelievable because his vote actually like that could have been the real threat it was like do, do it or don't, but we'll see you tomorrow because Rome is going to be here because we don't actually need your number. Yeah, and this is why I feel we can't gauge anything from him

actually having voted with them because it was at this point he realised that they were going to get it anyway. What is the point of antagonising someone you're going to be stuck with when you return from council by putting their name down even if you know yeah but my but my hope is that for Genevieve the decision is so much stronger if Sol is like in and like less against his actual agency well I mean it is against his agency because he doesn't need it but more kind of enthusiastically in that that's why she even goes with it to make the decision although to be fair at the point where

she's to be fair at the point where she's already told Rome before Sol they have the votes he's in like he thinks he's apologizing to Sol. Does feel like the train has left the station, but I do like to think that for Sol, because it's so much in Sol's best interest and I want to commend Sol on this. And to do that, you know, voting, obviously, wanting to vote this way, even against the emotionality,

which ironically is what Keyshawn articulates at Tribal Council about like how you have to look past kind of those relationships in the game it's so much better for him and it betters his position so so much so i hope that knowing that he had to do it anyway that he realized the betterment of that position and at least made it seem to genevieve that he was like grateful for how this was going to be better than coming back to taking out roman and being the next on the chopping block anyway, which is not the vibe. You know, with two people, with Sushant who already voted against him. Yeah, it's a pity we didn't get a congressional of him

processing that to that extent in terms of getting an I suppose, then they would have given the vote away. Well, they did anyway. That's what the vote was going to be anyway they try to put it down to like i can't make it work without soul and rome but it's like they could numerically and rome definitely would numerically because options were him or kishan really you know like she's not voting for soul and he's gonna steal the vote so like at that point it was done you know it was done for soul it was done for the viewers and still the question mark in the edit that they left was around is this going to happen is soul in when it

didn't materially matter um and i think that like the confessional coming back from soul that's what i'm really interested about about but he's like i did not want to do that because even with like at tribal council he says to teenagers like i don't know what to do now. Yeah, but it's not even about, but there's like, I would have actively not done it versus I didn't love it, but like, yeah, that's my game. Like that was best for my game. I think there's a difference around like, I don't want to do it, but I need to do it versus like, I have to do it.

Does that make any sense? Yeah, I guess, like I said, for me, he had no choice. It was the most sensible thing. Yeah. In his position. Yeah. The edit definitely made it seem like Kanji without Sol, whereas at the point where she goes to Rome and Rome believes her,

you know, she's not voting for Sol. So he would have put two votes on soul i guess we could have got like a two one one and maybe soul is voting for rome and she's voting for he's sean yeah unlikely he's gonna vote with genevieve at the point where she's like you're the other target so i do appreciate though that she tried to bring Sol in. And I feel like, yeah, for Sol, here's my question for you. Threat or ultimatum, what was Rome doing? Is there a difference? And what do you think it was?

He was definitely threatening him. I know. He was. And can I tell you why? It's because, and this is the same thing that happened at the journey. It's like, either give up your vote or you lose your vote well those two things are the same so that's actually not an ultimatum because that's not a decision that's a threat and the same thing with what Rome was doing which is like give me your shot in the dark or I will take your shot in the dark well either way I'm losing

my shot in the dark especially because the Genevieve decoy ironically given how much drama it caused was not believable coming from Rome and it was so clear that the only reason he would be doing that would be to take his shot in the dark so from a like and Saul to his credit again much like last week is like clearly this is what you're doing like says it to his face

which is amazing but I wonder if you know sometimes as players you get caught up in wanting to do and and i think this is this is a reflection on rome as well yes i've spoken about the lack of social awareness and the aggression what what i read at least as aggression that he may not necessarily see. But it's also that desire to want to do everything yourself. What does he feel that he must be at the center of instigating and making things happen if you're that secure in terms of where you are in the game. And I think even him feeling that he needs to pitch that idea is

questionable for me. Yes, it's a great idea. It was sensible. but I think him feeling that he had to be the one to see it through is where the problem is and it comes back to a lack of an awareness and inability to trust other people to work on a plan with you, for you in the game. Yeah, there's a lot. I don't even, there's so much with this tribe. I'm now like just thinking about how, yeah, going to Sol after the point that you've told Rome and there's just nothing else. And so much was put in Sol's agency, which he actually had none.

I hope he's not like mad at Genevieve. Maybe that's like like, the one. But she really did go out of her way. Like, she didn't even need to tell him. They did try. They did try to include Sol. They don't even steal his vote. They come to him when they don't need him.

I hope he, like, I hope he feels bonded by that to Genevieve. I hope so, too. But Sol comes off pretty smart to me and quite reflective. I think probably out of everyone, he might have, apart from Genevieve, a clearer view of what actually happened leading up to this. And so it's just, I think, a question of whether he feels he needs that alliance moving forward and what he's going to do about it. Because it's quite clear that he loves Teenie, he loves Genevieve

and would like to work with them. But, you know, Rome is a part of that equation that he can't necessarily help. I think a lot of this is on how genevieve is going to manage all of that and it's very difficult and i'd love to talk about teeny kishon and that because i feel like they gave themselves quite a tall order which was like hey we're going to work with genevieve we're going to like kind of split the the duos to get into like if we get to a final four we're in like a two one one situation where we take out Asia and then Rome and then we have Genevieve with us as a three and then we have Sol and we're bringing people back which to their credit to Tini's credit as an example like I don't agree with the decisions and I think that they and Kishan very much underestimated Genevieve and have suffered for that but I do have to credit the social game

because even coming back from voting for Sol and being a part of his ally going home, she's saying sorry and he's accompanying her. And I'm like, well, that's impressive. So that part I think is impressive. I had that moment. I was like, girl, you're gay. That's next level.

Yeah, from a social perspective, that's amazing. I think that is where her secret power lies, is that the power of vulnerability in the game. Because I think part of it is that it's not that she was playing him. She was genuinely feeling, I couldn't bring myself to do this. I wouldn't be more likely to trust someone like that who would have, for whatever reason, that's so funny because I'm the person

who did that as well, could have saved myself and chose not to because I couldn't write someone else's name down. And that's someone who you're more likely to trust moving forward. And you know that whatever it is that they give you is genuine Israel and probably more reliable than anyone else there. Yeah, it's a double-edged sword

because it was very sweet that she wouldn't write down Asia's name. I was like, like oh but then I was also like critical because that's not good you know like well done for bringing Sol back but like her allies didn't know so that's very unreliable and you've now voted for Sol now you have to bridge that and you do which is impressive but the point where you have to do that and I said last week I'm like that split doesn't make any sense. Like, at worst, it doesn't make sense, and at best, it's, like, overly cautious and incredibly antisocial with Sol, and was done for social reasons for someone who isn't going to

be a juror, and to be fair, like, it's part of a podcast community that Tini feels very strongly about, but that might not be enough of a reason, as adorable as I think it is. So I have to be critical of it, but you are right that that emotionality that vulnerability that kind of softness is what draws people to teeny and has someone like soul comforting teeny even though his name was written down you know by teeny not 10 minutes ago so it's but I still am critical of it yeah yeah um and then so the way that they were looking at it, like how do we kind of look at this for Kishan and Tini

because it's just, it's kind of devastating. Tini and Kishan who were ruling the tribe who seem to have every option. Kishan's now out of the game. Tini is reliant on Sol who they voted against,

on Genevieve who just blindsided them and voted out their number one ally. How do we look at that? Like, where did it go wrong? Was it in trusting Genevieve fully? Was it in going with Genevieve, which was fine, but then trying to take out Rome?

Like, where do you put, where did this, like, completely derail? Where's the problem? I think this often happens when you have someone away from camp for a bit and then ideas start flowing and she kind of comes back, listens to the idea, was really, the sense that you got was more that she was indifferent to it than anything else. And she's probably the person who had the least agency in that discussion

because they made the decision without her and when she got back it was like, okay, rubber stamp, I don't have a vote. I do think, though, it is quite questionable. I mean, we're not talking about the journey. Placing yourself in that position when you are the person going into tribal council that's dead

fortunately it wasn't her because she knew that she was insulated enough but so much changed in that time I just questioned that decision but there was no way that she could have known. I think Tini is still pretty safe, actually.

Well, we do. It does come down to whatever works for Genevieve. But I think she has such a good social game in the sense that in a tribe of four people, she knows that in his heart of hearts, Sol is the person who doesn't want her to go home, even though she cast a vote for him, which then brings you to Genevieve. There's obviously a conversation that's going to be had there, and I get the sense that there's an underlying way. She's not necessarily going to be had there. And I get the sense that there's an underlying where she's not necessarily going to be

the choice to go home. I think what it comes down to is what her relationship might be with Rome. What his response is to, you know, you knew that they were trying to vote me out and you didn't fight for me. But knowing him, it will most likely escalate, but we'll see. Maybe he might change his ways and decide that he's not going to play

that type of game and rather try and work it out. But I just, of the four people that are there, apart from Genevieve, I still think her social game is so strong that I don't think any of the others would want her gone. Yeah. Just a lovely person to have around. Yeah. Well, Tini doesn't know.

They have a confessional. The voting confessional is, I don't know what's about to happen. And if you think about it from Tini's perspective, if Keyshawn's vote has been stolen, Tini could target 100 you know between that pair if genevieve's looking to erode that pair which is clearly what's happening it's kind of like a 50 50 but you also have to credit that teeny's name is not heard and you know 60 of this tribe has very legitimate plans against them and every other name is at least spoken about for teeny so there's a social installation while the strategic game is kind of falling apart for me like i i question for me the biggest thing

was putting it all on genevieve i think even just going with asian soul and you know even getting down to a four where they'd already approached soul and asked like what if we have to get rid of asia and soul had been amenable so you can think asia's like a possibility at four we might not even get to that point that to me is the plan but yeah even more so this I think if you're going with Rome and Genevieve or if you're going with Genevieve go with Rome and Genevieve like they also then put it on Genevieve to turn against Rome they put so much in her hands and then gave her an incentive to flip by taking that agency by targeting Rome and I know that Genevieve was a part of those conversations but there's a misread in how much she wants to do that or how much of a benefit Rome is or she's snowing them and all of that is a credit to Genevieve and a discredit to them

but they were trying something very you know more difficult and going into the 2-1-1 structure and having basically total total control to do anything and they'd have to well outpace everyone on the tribe to do that because it's hard and they just simply didn't do that. So that's like my biggest thing with Tini and Kishore and I feel like I would have just gone with the safe pair in Asia and Seoul and at the point where I'm not doing that, I probably would have stuck consistently

with like Rome and Genevieve and Tini doesn't vibe with the intensity of Rome and that's a decision you've made when you've gone with that pair. So then they're trying to dial it back, take out Rome, cut it all up, really slice and dice through the tribe, which is hard and I think thought maybe they were so strategically outpacing everyone that they could do that and they weren't so that to me is kind of like the

criticism of how we get here but in terms of the journey like I'm not critical of Teenie for giving up their vote um again it was a threat yeah no I'm not well because because firstly and what we know teeny's vote is the most losable right like the birds i view that we have like andy can't get his vote like andy we know is on the bottom and he doesn't i think know that sam has an idol to protect him he doesn't know that anika's lost her vote so he really like he's like that's the three two that's his possible shot in the dark that if he doesn't lose it, that's his leverage. That's everything. Andy simply cannot. And I think that seeing Andy on the mat, that's very believable and true. Caroline, to a degree, but like lose your vote. People find out it's like a possible two two.

If Tiana goes with Kyle, you don't like it either. It's hard for me to see how Tini's vote would really matter. I mean, this is a four-0 you know let alone if salt doesn't do it it's a 3-1 like what is the situation where teeny's vote specifically is so important it would have to be rome wising up a loan to steal a vote to take it to a 2-2 at worst you're okay like teeny's one vote again teeny's social bonds are the main thing so either they're going to come off or not i don't think it's as much about the vote. And while it is scary to go to tribal council tonight, you also have somewhat of a luxury of not necessarily knowing the dynamics because those flipped around before the vote in just a couple of hours,

but the iteration, you know, that you, you will lose it tonight before a swap. It's the most controllable because it's right there right now. And for teeny again, considering the other two were kind of off the table you're gonna lose your vote anyway it's not like we could all walk away maybe then you choose to walk away i would totally understand that but at the point again it's the threat of you all lose your vote anyway this is the equivalent of like a bully coming up and being like give me your lunch money or if you don't i'm just gonna punch you and take the lunch money it's

like i might as well not get punched like she might as well get the social capital and whatever is in the box when I do think that they could give up the vote and I don't think that's what changed anything I think that trusting Genevieve giving it all to Genevieve putting Genevieve off with a Rome target misunderstanding that those choices I think vote or not are what come back to bite Tini and Kishan and Kishan's part of that that we've discussed. And I don't think it's about Tini having a vote or not. Do you think she managed to build the social capital, though? Yeah.

With Andy and Caroline? I do. Well, yes. Do you? I just thought that that was quite questionable because they were so keen to protect. And I think now, because of what's happened in her tribal council, there's more likelihood that she would go back and revisit those ponds from her side, you know? Yeah. And I think going into a merge situation situation she's probably better off because of

what has happened yes I mean that's the social capital that you get and the thing is I love this three Andy Caroline and Tini I was upset thinking oh no there's an amulet that's going to put a bounty where they'll be incentivized to work against each other but now that it's a new amulet I could see them working together like I I could definitely... People try and target each other. Well, this is like the amulet has been a bounty till now because there's been no benefit in working together. Now it's a fairly even advantage. The bounty was fun. Terrible for the players, but fun for us.

But now it's quite even. So I could see them working together to get rid of the bounty that has doomed so many players because there is something there because Andy's on the outs, Teenie's on the outs like these are some workable players who now have something that they could actually collaborate on so I do think do you not think that this is something that might come off for the three of them oh it's wait and see I get the sense that that because of what happened in this tribal council, I think she's more inclined to make it work moving forward because, again,

you go back and you're not sure if you trust the people that you trusted from day one. I think there's a greater incentive to make that work from Tini's side and obviously the incentive was always going to be there from Annie's side because his position in the tribe is precarious and not necessarily for Caroline I don't think but we'll see

yeah well of the three at the time that they went out Tini and Caroline were probably in safer spots. But coming out of this tribal council, you'd probably have a situation where Tini is more inclined to want to make it work.

Yeah, and these are all tribes that have gone to tribal council. These are all tribes that kind of have their own baggage. So no one has a majority, even Caroline, who actually says it's in a good position on her tribe. That's still a three, maybe a four, like even, and even then there's like, you know, Tiana saying I'm scared of Sue, you know, and we'll talk about that. So none of them have a majority, you know, that's the three tribe format.

All of them are incentivized to work together and now they have something that actually could help them work together like it's like that's genuinely beneficial to the the three of them combined so i think that you know using it early to kind of secure something would work for at least andy and teeny if not caroline too and caroline seems to want to so i think there's actually something here which is great what did you think about them all telling everyone about it like the only names we didn't see told about it were Rome who was a presumptive boot at that point and Sol who I hope Teenie told as well mind-blowing I think they they must have

decided to tell everyone yeah yeah there's no way that that just happened as which which i suppose feeds into what you're saying that there probably is sort of some a working relationship that's already at play there yeah and and that reaffirms that but that's mind-blowing i think that that that's that's that's good it It's necessary. It doesn't make for fun television, but it's what you need to do for your longevity in the game. So, yeah.

I think, I mean, it makes sense to me because, I mean, Kieran once had this great point on the podcast, which is like, if one person knows about something, assume everyone does. Like, you cannot control these two people you've just met are going to like, if if you were all gonna keep it a secret, you can't control that.

So you may as well get ahead of it. I think what's awkward about that is assuming they decided it together. It's like, we might as well tell everyone because like we can't trust each other. You can't say that out loud. But I do think that you can say, and Rob said this on Nordles and I agree,

let's tell everyone this incentivizes them to keep us because if they get rid of me teeny as an example now they've just made it a two-person and you guys can work on it just together and they just incentivize two people on other tribes at least i'm like a conduit to this power to them rather than empowering people they don't know so i think that was good from everyone and i think that it made a lot of sense did you like the the? I actually did. I liked that there was a breath of fresh air. Like I think I've said this to you in a previous podcast,

I've often wondered why they don't just put everything down and have a proper chat to catch up as to what's happening. Can I get a sense of where you are at your tribe? You know, how do we feel about what's going to happen? And that's the sense that you got in this case. I think it works out so much better when you can possibly see seeds of what can happen in future, you know, being planted in a journey like this. Yeah, but they did talk about it you know they did talk about their their standing this is this is my biggest thing about the journey after i ranted last week about like diplomacy of like sending

people on the boats and how did they choose andy how did it happen we gotta win the ability to choose who goes on and they're all just like, yep, Andy, the person who's clearly on the bottom. The person who's three of the five of us. Yeah, like, I didn't even see any scissors paper up. The person who's at the bottom, the person who's the most volatile as well, all right? The person who won the mat was like, none of them like me.

And then immediately gets to the journey and rightly is like, I'm a free agent. You do what you want. I'll be there. Like, from a power perspective perspective from an information perspective from the fact that like for sam it's good obviously for sam like you know he can even risk andy losing his vote like he has an idol he can kind of like have andy do that and that's fine and like anyway annika's lost her vote so he he's going to rely on Sierra anyway.

They should have like a three to one advantage. If Andy loses, it's two to one. He wouldn't, I don't think, do it without Sierra as much as they're misaligned and we can talk about it. But Sam, it's fine. For the women, like you're sending someone who could definitely get something really defensive. If he has an idol, like what's...

And they know that Sam has an idol I think for Sam it was the most he stood the most to benefit from Andy going short of him going himself he stood he's the only one who benefited he and Andy like I don't understand how anyone allowed this to happen but I think that speaks to his influence

within his tribe I mean he has been the sort of the voice of what is really going on in that tribe. So he must have feared it. There's no other way that that would have happened otherwise, you know? I think it's just that people are too nice around these journeys. And he's like, I want to go and no one wants to be like, no, Andy, because it's rude. This is what we spoke about last week but like I genuinely like have to wonder like aren't they concerned about the fact that he could even if he well they don't think if he yeah if he gets

a vote steal well they know Annika's lost her vote so even that could like tie something up like I feel like for especially like Annika and Rachel specifically you know you're relying on Sam they they don't necessarily know how dicey that is but you might want to send Sam and maybe have less kind of risk to you or you might think we need Sam anyway he has an idol hopefully he's with us if not we're screwed kind of so I'm willing to even like for someone like Rachel like risk my vote as well or someone like Sierra whose game is like kind of in flux um you know okay well i think for sierra maybe if her game's in flux it's like hey send andy if he loses his vote and that makes it even easier to go with the women if he gets some power okay i can still go with that

um there are bigger issues in sierra's game i think but i just don't i just don't understand like if he gets something defensive if he gets an idol, even a vote steal in what is now like a four-person vote, even just giving the information. I don't understand. I will rant about this until they stop sending the people on the bottom to the journeys. I think as well what it does come down to is that, yeah, as someone who kind of went on the first trip in both seasons everybody wants to go right

but you have to create a metric or a way of doing it in such a way that it doesn't look like you want to go so when you have a situation where someone wants to go but you don't necessarily want them to go, you have to create a lie or something, a smarter way to say no to them. I'm just thinking, like I remember in our season with the outcast, when we did the swap when when tajan ended going there was a whole lot of discussion because stephy wanted to go and we're like no we're going to send someone who hasn't been there before and i had to be the person to say that because you have to in this man yeah yeah pardon pardon Jeff says that you have to yeah yes so I could I could be the only person who could say that legitimately but disqualify myself in the

process but actually the person I wanted to disqualify was her and take the risk yeah you know of drawing rocks or whatever to see who ends up going yes it's so happening out there is that it happened to be a person we didn't want to go but you're more likely to work with so it's it's it's such a such a delicate dance that you have to do with stuff like that because the minute it's like people searching for items, everybody knows everybody does that. Everybody knows everyone wants to find them. But the minute you go out on your own, there's a tag that goes with it

that, oh, no, there's a legitimate reason not to trust Teresa because she's gone out and done that. So it's really sort of a question of the narrative that you create around how that process unfolds but for the women and again like I'm really pushing to go on the journey and I've always said never go on the journey but compared to Andy like right before Emerge like for the women you know the breadwinners as the name suggests they can freaking do a puzzle like it's i thought it might have been like a you know like ironic foreshadowing like they're about to lose like no they just freaking killed the puzzle

isn't it like um yeah rachel you you earned us a spot you go you know and like who could possibly begrudge that that is 100 true like i just feel like you know it's wrong because if any of the other tribes won they would have chosen andy so you don't want to make the same decision that your opponents are gonna make i just don't know how like it from the women's perspective from Sam good you know for Sam he has an idol he's got you know Andy could maybe get something else he really wants to protect Andy again like from a vote perspective you still need Sierra you still want to rely on Sierra so you don't even need really Andy's vote considering Annika's lost hers and I think he knows that I assume they told him so you know know, for Sam, fine. For the women,

less so Sierra considering her position, but like, I just, I don't know how and now it's becoming my bugbear. I think. I'd love to talk about that tribe because I think there was some really interesting stuff here and there's so much good strategic content in this like 90 minute episode. What did you think about this, this kind of information going from Sierra? They create the breadwinner name alliance. And again, very fair name.

Can crush a puzzle. So then Sierra tells Andy and then Andy goes to Sam. Who's right and wrong in this journey of information? I would probably say Sierra. She's preempt that Andy and Sam will probably curse her at that point in time. Or she hasn't figured out, like, how insulated Sam actually is because she wants to work with Sam.

I think my general rule is that if you're in a tribe and you're the person, you want to work with a particular person because you like them, say for argument's sake, and you think they're Ken and Bobby or whatever, you've got to, at least at the back of your mind, have a sense that whatever it is that you see in that person, everyone else on the tribe can see as well. If there's a natural inclination to want to work with that person, the likelihood is that everyone else can see it as well.

I think that's a very basic way of deductive reasoning in terms of determining who's who and how biased they may be. I think that's really interesting i think that kind of almost speaks to the kishan part which is like there might be a truism and it's so true for you that it's maybe wrong to think that other people aren't also sensing the kind of clarity of that right yeah is that like you know is that kind of the point you know like for them it's so obvious that they're drawn to each other that other people could also see that for kishan there's such a

confidence it might feel really like internal for him but it it's so clear that people can see it comes out exactly yeah um and and that's why you know it's so tricky because, again, it's so difficult. I know I've been caught in that position on a few occasions where I've been in a dominant alliance. You see it and then you almost have to reel yourself in because it comes out in so many unconscious ways where suddenly you're not pulling your weight around camp I don't feel like doing it whereas if you were the guy who knew you were in trouble you make a more concerted

effort you know um so I think that's that I think Sierra I don't know why she felt the need to share that um particularly with Andy and not necessarily that because my biggest fear is that we've already established that Andy's so volatile he just you know he blurts things out by virtue of telling him you're running the risk that it's going to come out and then you have to do damage control with people who, you know, want to work with you. And as far as they're concerned, you are part of their trio. So, yeah, it's always so questionable.

I love how there's always a natural inclination for ladies on Survivor to create a women's alliance and how it like most of the time never works this comes from the person who the first time they played went in saying I want to work with women only and then you get there and you're like I don't want to work with the women who are here not these women not these women. Women in general. Yeah. So, but that's the thing. For me, it's happened to me twice.

So, and then you realize that it's actually, it's not as simple as you think it is when you get there and the dynamics that come into play. So I always think it's always a red flag when someone does suggest something like that because inevitably you'll always have someone in that group who's second-guessing whether or not that is the group that they want to work with because it's so arbitrary as well. That's the other thing about it.

So I just, I don't think it was wise. Well, this story does seem- To be fair to her, I do get the sense that it was more a case of it slipped out. Yeah. Versus her intentionally wanting to tell him. Yeah. There's something so ironic about that where she's calling andy sloppy and then this was really sloppy like this was a disaster for me like i mean i do think that like this is an arbitrary for the women coming

together like they get along you know it's not it's not just gender based like they've had over a week to hang out they like each other the best we see Andy's got his own stuff Sam has been clashing with them this is the natural trio the three of them um and I don't know how intentional it was for Monica but she did some good stuff in kind of putting the threat onto the Ken and Barbie thing and saying how people are talking about it that kind of pushed Sierra more towards them and I think that again not sure of the intentionality but that was good but for Sierra here I think this was like this was horrendous to give for no reason. And again, complete sloppiness.

She has all the leverage with Andy. She's not trying to get anything from him. He's trying to get it from her. She just, again, flipped the leverage. It's almost like the theme of the episode where now Andy, I think, was right to go to Sam. Andy is showing Sam, you cannot lose me. You are so clearly fourth, which is then what Sam will say to Sierra. So he's really given Sam massive incentive, giving him that trust, that information, and

that showing that you need me so badly. So I think that was really good from Andy. And I also think for Sierra, this looks so shady to her allies, the Breadwinner Alliance, that if it's ever looking really dicey for andy and sam they could go to the women and say we know it's a breadwinner alliance they could throw sierra under the bus and he could almost be the next boot on this tribe um this was i think a disaster absolute disaster from sierra i think it was good from andy i think andy's done a lot of good stuff i liked andy on the journey i like the questions he was asking of Sierra to even get that information. I like going to Sam and proving that trust.

I don't disagree really with anything Andy's done since the premiere. I think that this has been good. You don't disagree with anything he's done since the premiere. The premiere was really bad, but from episodes two to four, I don't like, yeah, from the premiere,

from episode two, I think he's, I think he's been episode two um I think he's I think he's been really strong I think he's built back I think he's created something with Sam um other than like you know leaving his bag a bit too open and falling off boats I don't see I I think that he's built back in small ways um he could still have been the next food you know they haven't gone back to a tribal council so that makes it a bit difficult to kind of judge but i like the little things he's doing from the bad side with sam confronting yeah um sierra about it yeah i think that was really not good i think that sam kind of needed to get the information, but I think he could have been softer.

I think he could have. I also thought that he could have been softer with it because she went, the last thing you want is, you know, you're number one feeling like, okay, I've just been scolded like a naughty little girl. Okay. What does that mean in terms of the dynamic that we have? Because that's the sense that I got.

Yes. And also, you're trying to convince her to work with Andy, and now you've put her off Andy. So I would have been like, you know, I would have done the same thing Andy did. How close are you guys? And considering she gave up that information, it probably wouldn't have been that hard for Sam to do it as well.

So I think confronting her and throwing Andy under the bus was wrong. I do think their alliance is trouble in the Barbie dream house because their interests are incredibly misaligned. Like for Sam, you can a hundred percent see how he does not want to be the fourth to the women. He would go home at that point. I mean, he has the idol. So like, yes, at that point, you know, maybe it's like, like okay they'll all vote from he'll play the idol who wants to be in that position she says you won't go home because of me like that's not a good position for Sam to be in either fourth or at best a 2-2 yes with the idol but like again that's not the way I'd want to start

my game I'd rather build something build numbers with Andy who's super super loyal to him so for Sam I get it for Sierra I definitely get wanting to be with the women with Sam you're unlikely to go to two more tribal councils um if you do you lose Sam which is really unfortunate but it's not going to be you the woman's relationship is really really great um and you probably do get to have your cake and eat it too like have Sam as the fourth making it through to merge with all four so I get it from her perspective and um as much as andy's going to give her she has great relationships across the board elsewhere i just think they're very misaligned interests at this point and i don't really know how that's like that's solvable for the two of them no it's not yeah where do you

think like they should is there any way that the two of them could work that out or is it just that diverged? I do think that they will end up voting together. If they were to go to another tribal, it's highly unlikely that they will now. Because they'll be a swap. I think. There was something going on, yeah. It looked like there was, like, two challenges.

So I think that despite that they can still chat and and find each other you still get the sense that out of the people there um they are still more likely to to come up to something together yeah um but but like you say it's so tricky because they're so misaligned and they have different views and you can see two very strong personalities as well yeah I could almost see I could almost flash forward to a Genevieve soul dynamic with Sam coming to Sierra like you can't vote for Andy because I'm playing the idol on him so I mean I mean, it's a one tribal idol, right? So yeah, go with me or don't, but you know, but like, but also go with me, but also you have to go with me.

The threat ultimatum of it all, I could see that. But Sam has a one tribal idol. So that dynamic, he would rule that dynamic. So yeah, and you know, Sierra as well. She's like, I didn't come up with the name. It's like, Sierra, that is not the issue. The first issue is that they're that close that they have a name, which sucks for Sam. The second issue was that you didn't tell him. It's not about who came up with the name it's like yeah that is not the issue the first issue is that they're that close that they have a name which sucks for sam the second issue was that you didn't tell him it's not about

who came up with the name if anything take the creative like you know like that was that's a good thing like it was it's a good alliance name no the issue was that you didn't tell your ally for days anyway and also that you told andy instead of Sam like that's very concerning yeah not great really bad um I do appreciate that she's trying to save the chickens though um so no yeah you know I hate when they do the chickens I actually think they do this for television. It's like the most frustrating thing to watch. First of all, like, my view on this is that whenever you get the chickens, they must die immediately. There mustn't be room for discussion around it.

Look in your face and you just eat them all in one go. No! and you just eat them all in one go because no if it's not the issues of the vegans that don't want all the that's me yeah now my child is crashing the podcast we both got right when she's like what are we talking about with animals my child is crashing the podcast. We both got... Right when she's like, what are we talking about with animals? My cat is here. Yeah, well, we don't eat cats. Good.

I don't eat chicken. I don't like when they do the chicken stuff. But it's like one of those where it's like such a cursed reward. I think if I were to ever be like doing a challenge and that was the reward, would I would actually think that it's one of those that's just not worth it to be honest because the the issues are so much around it that it's it's not worth it unfortunately in this case it was paired with an immunity so you have to try and win it because it's it's just not worth the trouble they're noisy they're messy the likelihood that you're going to get enough eggs to be feeding five people like for me the

practicality of it is just because chickens are a curse yeah well it's a curse for me to watch it and then feel sad that they're going to kill i can't even i hate it but but i did look up do they cancelled the seer award um on may 25th of this year and yet this chicken discussion that sierra was trying which usually would win some sierra money was happening on day eight which was may 20th five days later they're like sorry sierra you're not getting any money so i do really appreciate that she tried to you know i'm um my cat is crashing the podcast um i do appreciate that she tried to, now my cat is crashing the podcast. I do appreciate that she tried to save the chickens. But yeah, I mean, maybe they could have just hung out

for like 20 minutes with the last puzzle piece. Be like, yeah, we'll just take the six eggs, let them win and we'll put in the puzzle piece second. They can crush a puzzle. I don't know. That's how I feel about it. With the eggs and yeast least you can frame it. There isn't an emotional attachment to it.

As well, I mean, goodness, the size of the chickens once you've done all the work anyway. And this is where I keep coming back to. That's why I think you must just do it in one go, all of them. Minimize the discussion. Minimize the brutality. I can't co-sign this Teresa I can't I can't for the the chicken massacre I can't it's the source of protein Shannon or just place yourself in a position where you just don't get it at all um then then there's peace and harmony in the tribe like I thought to my core when Sam was like oh no I was like I I can just

totally imagine that being me in that situation and having one or two people think that they should be saved and you're like, this is so dumb, but okay, I don't say anything because gameplay. Yeah, and also ethics. No, I mean, everyone, they're all meat eaters. If you eat meat, you can't make the ethical argument. Yeah, well, i don't enjoy it speaking of massacres this is a segue let's talk about tuku with the paint the lady mcbeth style um it's this was so this was so funny what did you think about the yeah the because they did it

before in 42 Drea like put her hand in paint but this was like I thought hilarious in that it just crashed everywhere there was so it was like it was the whole scene starting from Kyle saying like if the good lord wills that you'll have a lot of time but like she's lying about the time so that's not actually maybe even as true that's the first part the second part that she was just like covered in pain in a way that's just hysterical and then ending with her being like yeah I bit my tongue if you would have bite your tongue for that amount of pain that was even on her you would have bitten your tongue off so all of that I thought I was like in hysterics I thought it was very funny I I loved it so, so much. Like the goofiness of the run up.

And actually, honestly, I think also how it all started, where she was like in such a dark place at the beginning of it, because, you know, the game can be so hard and it's tough and it's emotional. And then she just gets a little glimmer of hope and I thought it was a lovely little story, very funny like you say with paint

everywhere, I was like oh no she's going to get caught and she did get caught but she didn't which was she got caught they thought it was blood how can you though

well what would you think no i think that'd be too suspicious hey but there's like where is my pain i guess maybe because they would have washed in 42 Drea did put her hand in paint so you would think and I think Tiana does think I don't think Tiana thinks she bit her tongue oh she just looked like a cat on her chin that really that legitimately looked like blood from who was standing but um That was so funny, though. The issue is you want to say you're bleeding, but you don't have a source of a wound for them to look at.

So that's why she said tongue. I do think that is difficult. I don't think tongue was where I would have gone. I think that, like, it's fine if she goes and immediately tells her allies. I anyway think people should be using idols to bond with their majority, create them, you know, solidify with Gabe and with Caroline but now especially because she was caught as long as you just tell your majority then there's no way that they'll be mad um and hopefully Caroline thinks that she would have done that anyway and it wasn't just because she was caught but I actually felt like this was not a good episode for Sue

is that no no no did you think it was I mean she found an idol she did find an idol but also just lying about her age was that next to you it was that and like it's one of those that's rich coming from me as well

it's like do you really need to lie about that yeah well that's what I mean yeah I need to lie about that? Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. Yeah, I mean, to say that you're, well, firstly, they said this was kind of a Frankenbite, and I feel that Sue has a lot of Frankenbites, but they made it seem like she's lying about her age and her job.

So, like, how is anyone connecting to you on anything? From a job perspective, how is being a pilot threatening? And we know that Tiana is a flight attendant who wants to be a pilot so are they not connecting on that because you're lying about your job why they're on age like I was you know talking about this with um you know a friend who washes as well and she was saying and I agree with Sarah Carradine she was saying how if you're like kind of 45 or 58 to the 20 somethings it's kind of similar like you're still in of 45 or 58 to the 20 somethings, it's kind of similar. Like you're still in that maternal role. Like Julie was, I think had just turned 49,

kind of all the same. If anything kind of lean into the maternal role. Secondly, if you're like for the 30 somethings, I feel like now that's kind of unbelievable. So it's like the risk of that. Yeah. So like, what are you gaining? And also I feel like it makes it so different. Like her whole life she has a child she has a grandchild all the ages around

13 years of her life have been erratic that is a long time to have to think about your story of life how old were you when you had your kid like how like all of that is so different why even do it to yourself like what like what are you gaining based on what you're losing for the difficulties of that yeah it's it's it's so yeah I just question that that's why why lie about it yeah and I don't I don't I don't think it I don't think you gain anything so I don't think that was good because you already got a sense that she she is someone that is quite likable. Yes, she did get a bird, but you get the sense that there are enough people in the tribe who want to work with her, want to see her on. I mean, Gabe reinforces her.

So she's actually not in a position where she needs to play that off. She can be her authentic self in that regard, and it's all right. Yeah. No, if anything, it's actually much more impressive that she's done so well socially, considering that she is a stranger to these people. They know nothing about her.

So yeah, if anything, that's more impressive because there's like that barrier there. But I don't think she should be lying about this stuff. I did think, obviously, you know, I thought it made sense to risk her vote. Kyle doesn't have a vote. She has like the space to do that. And then what did you think about the fact that she gets an idol?

She gets like a full final five idol, not just a couple of episodes ago. Everyone was going through what felt like hours of treks for boxes for, yeah, decisions on like one, one tribal, three tribals. She just gets the straight five on something that was difficult and very public with the paint but like I don't think it was more difficult than you know the treks that ever so and now it's just idols like how did what do you feel about that from a production perspective no I thought Sam's one was it was a lot of work hey all of them Gabe was working they were working and the climbing up yeah yeah I'm not sure what the

thinking was around around that maybe you know they just draw out of heads which one will be a complete idol which one I don't like that yeah I think they're just kind of like we're done now that was a gimmick and that's finished I think it is a bit thoughtless and I don't I think if you were to ask production they wouldn't have a good answer that's finished. I think it is a bit thoughtless and I don't, I think if you were to ask production, they wouldn't have a good answer. That's me surmising. And I, I don't like that.

Like in 42, they will all be where advantages, every single, you know, advantage will be where advantage. And then like one time, like Marianne, which I love,

but like she found just like an idol and it was an idol not beware. It was like, well, where's the consistency on that? Who decides that? Is there a reason that it's inconsistent or is it just like, put in an idol now, you know um i think it could also speak to the fact that there's going to be a swap maybe so they just want her to get it to get it and that there isn't as much time as the

other before though like hunter last, he got it right before. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, she got it and she would have to. Well, that's on her, though. If she's taking beware later on, she knows she's knowingly making the decision where and then maybe she makes the choice not to keep looking for it because she has less time. I was about to say, then there's less likelihood of actually taking it

if it's right before there is a swap or whatever else. Yeah. I'm just trying to put my head in production's heads on that one. I guess, yeah, like even with like the Beware of Ange-Marie-Anne, like maybe it was just like kind of more of like a post-merge game thing. This is all pre-merge. It's all so close together.

I just think it's like that gimmick is done but I think it is a bit thoughtless um from a tv perspective I felt like you know I'm in two minds because I think this was a good idol finding segment it was really funny I think that was all great like the endless kind of trekking I don't love but then limiting the idol's power and having the agency of decision making I do find interesting so I'm in two minds of that I don't love, but then limiting the idol's power and having the agency of decision making, I do find interesting. So I'm in two minds of that. I don't like the consistency, but I do think what it's incentivizing is if you, in a future season, get it, you know, early on, find something that says one tribal, or you can extend it. You have to go for the full idol because I'd be thinking, oh, if I don't go for the full idol and it expires or I have to play it then someone else who's not me who has this in my hands now I've opened it up

to whoever finds the next thing seemingly is just going to get a full idol for maybe even less work than I'm putting in for this one tribal idol so I think it incentivizes going the full way to getting the full idol less someone else is going to do less work for a more powerful idol in like two days from now yeah yeah and maybe I don't know if that's what they want again i don't think they're thinking through that but the inconsistency i think is is interesting questionable yeah yeah um anything else from this tribe does anyone else stand out to you from these kind of two other tribes that we haven't spoken about as much um i'm just having a look here Gabe, Kyle, Tiana

Rachel and Annika we haven't spoken about as much who do you like? he gives, there's a good energy to him no one else who's your favorite who's your winner pick who do you think will win

should we ask your son again your son said jesse two years ago which was not bad he is one fire away from that yeah it was a solid pick if i were to go now can i pick one for each tribe no you shouldn't even get one now it is episode four one big i've lost two draft picks already

okay so are you for real yeah i'm gonna go give one from each tribe but then choose one actual person okay i'm gonna go i'm gonna go with kinney okay uh that's probably more of a heart pick than a head pick um i'm gonna go with sam yeah that's fair and game all right i think those are good picks i Sam and Gabe. All right. I think those are good picks. I mean, look, it's probably not Genevieve, right? Which is so upsetting considering she's been so good. It's almost like with Kishan, I think. And this is the tension that you have very early on in the game. And I think it's the same sort of thing that happened to Attevan in my season,

is that you come out guns blazing and you're really playing a very good game. And what happens is it becomes so visible to everyone else playing with you that there's almost like a time stamp to, okay, I see you, your time. The minute we can take a shot at you, we're going to do that. And I feel that as good as Genevieve's move was now, what happens as a result of that is that everyone around her is going to be more aware of the kind of game that she's capable of playing.

And generally people like that, they don't end up as a source of anger. Yeah, I do think that that is a criticism possibly of the move, to have a coming out party this early and for what? You know, I mean, and she does gain, as we've said, but if it's quite marginal and both decisions have merit, is it worth it? I think still I lean towards doing it,

even with the possible threat level being raised for the reason of the game will, like, she's going to be fine through the pre-merge. The game will then shift. Only a couple of people will know you know come from this tribe and there might be bigger fish like the dynamics are going to fully shift and that won't necessarily come back on her she'll have the skills and people might not even be as aware even if they hear about it kind of how obvious and how good those skills are i just think that she's not winning because editing her like this was already so egregious. If she's the winner and they edited their winner

like this to not show how impressive those first couple of episodes were and how imperative she was to last week's vote and how incredible her social work was to this point, it's even more unforgivable. So from a, yeah, I wouldn't put my chips on her from an edit perspective. And that's really upsetting to even have her kind of ruled out let alone kind of I feel like what it took away from the narrative so I think teeny has definitely had the most

narrative on that I mean you could pick Rome and I wouldn't pick soul from an edit perspective um as well and then yeah on Goddard Sam's definitely had the most I feel like you've picked the person who has had the most for me, well Rome's had a lot but like some clear picks, I bet who of the three are you picking as your winner pick I'm going to go with Tinny, I really like her, there's so much, even after this episode

she's not necessarily the best of friends yes I think of all the people she has shown the social ability to probably bounce back from something like this and really be insulated. Because then again, you know, even in a scenario where there is a pair, like was the case with her and Kashan, yes, it was driven by the fact that he had thrown Genevieve's name out there. You still get the sense that if they were targeting the pair, she's always going to be the person in the pair who people would rather stay with than not. So there's that dynamic

and I value that sense that people playing with you would actually want you to be the winner if you're not, if it's not them. Yeah. Tini has great soft skills for the game. Tini and Kishan just got Genevieve'd. They underestimated Genevieve. And Asia got Genevieve'd where we wondered like where had Asia gone wrong like you know the issue was obviously Tini and Kishan choosing Genevieve on someone like Asia

who was so likable being socially outplayed by Genevieve and underestimating how much they would want to keep Genevieve they all put a lot of power into Genevieve and they got Genevieve and that's the verb now but you know I still think that Teenie has skills that can work back this was like one pretty bad decision on trusting and putting it all into Genevieve and giving that trust and flipping the leverage like again complete disagreement but there are skills and I think at the point where we see the first scene where Sol is comforting Teenie that's the kind of skill and dynamic that hopefully will rally through beyond kind of the mistakes that have been made but let's talk about some of these people i think in the chizzy

take it away jacob sega one scene and mc color one two three great oh that's the best i've ever done it's getting kind of cheesy. Three, two, one. Great. Oh, that's the best I've ever done it. And look what I've added. The cheesy chart. These are Randy Newpool's excellent cheesy charts that I put on Twitter every week. And I put them in the video and I worked on how to do it.

It was not hard, but it still took me time. So we've got the cheesy charts up here. Do you want to give your points first or should I go first? Or what do you want to do? It's really your call. I think traditionally I'm always gone first. Go first. I want to give your points first or should I go first or what do you want to do? It's really your call. I think traditionally I'm always gone first. Go first. I want to hear it.

You go. I want to hear your points. You go first this time. I'm going to go three points for Genevieve, obviously. I'm going to go two for Rome and I'm going gonna go one for seoul and that's right okay that's very that's interesting that's real so okay so here's where we are at okay i'm gonna give my points i'm just calculating some stuff um we have a lot of people on the chippy chart as you can see coming into this week nine people already three weeks in which I think is really interesting. Which is almost unheard of.

Yeah. It's very kind of even spread around just like people getting points. But what am I – oh, I'm actually doing this. I think I've added up wrong. But this is what it is. I'm giving three points to Genevieve. I think that speaks for itself. I thought for me it was pretty easy this week.

I'm giving three points to Genevieve. I'm giving two points to Sol. I think mainly on creating that connection with Genevieve, which I think was important. As we said, the train had left the station before Sol had ever been spoken to. Genevieve was going to have to do it whether Sol liked it or not. And we don't even know how on board he was. But she went out of her way to work with him. Credit to her. Credit to his connection with her. Hopefully he plays that well. And, yeah, I think that mostly with Saul, it's the standing. And I hope it's one he wanted because his standing greatly improved in that relationship with Genevieve I think was key. I'm giving a point to Andy.

Again, building back. Yeah, I really like the way that Andy um went back to Sam the information from Sierra yeah like you know the way that he um was on the journey um the information that he gave I thought all of that was good um I'm not giving to Rome and I feel like last week I gave Rome three points when actually had we known the information it feels like I could have swapped and given three to Genevieve and two to Rome because last week I gave two to Genevieve out of just the possibility and was like out any information in the hope that it was Genevieve and it was even more than I could she deserved 10 points you know so I feel like Rome got three

last week and I feel like those three kind of credit the pros and the cons through the week the week there were cons last week as well. This week, he was the target until very, very shortly before the vote. He was really good with Genevieve. Then move the target is important. But he got three last week. I think it kind of speaks to the power that he's had on the tribe. And I just think at this point, like, you know, it's not good when you have people in your tribe that are like,

my issue is he's not treating the people like human beings. You know, it's too much. It's too delusional. He was putting his faith in the wrong people. He was in a worse position than I even thought. He had less to do with last week than I thought compared to Genevieve. So I just think on the balance of everything,

this makes sense. And that means that the charts, so Sue will be on nine. I can't update it in real time. Teenie on nine. Genevieve now on eight. Rome is now on seven. Sam is on five.

Andy is now on three. Gabe on two. I'm seeing the rest of the chart now um Rachel on one and Asia on one I think that that's right um so those are the cheesy charts we did that um you really oh you really guess my Andy pick Andy keeps just like racking up like one pointers and I think that shows he's like slowly building it's happening Sandy's pretty I also I do get a sense that he's someone who is going to go deep but um I'm not sure vulnerability is the question that I have you know there are a lot of people there that I've listed that that probably could go deep you know someone like a Rome but do you have a question over the winnability as well yeah big questions yeah but um yeah I mean that that relationship with Genevieve is really really key and I'm really interested to see how Genevieve

manages it where soul kind of stood on how much you wanted this what the twist is next week and it's a great segue into my plugs because next week while everyone's hobnobbing in new york i will be on the post game show with marianne the know it gals yeah so yes um going from week to week with people i love to talk to and you teresa and and Marianne. So I'm very lucky, Teresa. You know, what's happening with you? Still on Twitter at an app that has many numbers. Hard for people to find. The running joke that we have.

Every time I have to tag you, I'm like, really? Is it true? Yeah. At least you know it's me, Shannon. You're the only Teresa I have, but it is Teresa84588399 and it's just I think hard for people to remember because it's like so many numbers and it's so random yeah the crazy thing is were there 84,588,398 other Teresa's I'm pretty sure No but like okay so people can't You're not going to tweet should you tweet Through your

Rewatch of the new era And first watch of some of it I can do that Because I'm in that space now It's just it got disrupted this Week because I was binge watching The JST interview so and now that's done so I'm watching again well yes I think you should tell the people your thoughts

but thank you so much for coming on to the podcast Teresa I really always love chatting to you we had the podcast crashed by your child my cat um we had a good time i have yeah it's fun it's fun the chaos is fun um no it was really a good time i have um yeah the after show next week as i said um i'm also going to be on nothing but netflix next week talking about the netflix show that i binge nobody wants this which is about podcasting and judaism so it's just basically a show about me in different ways um and i'm talking about that with Chappelle so yeah I'm excited about that that'll come out I don't know when I guess next week we're doing that in a couple of days oh and then you commented on this I put out my article that I said was coming out and it did

come out yes do you have thoughts well for the listeners you if you haven't read it. It's so funny that it happened to fall in. Like I said to you, I was binge-watching the JSC interview this week, which are the interviews for judges for different courts in South Africa. Yeah, I didn't know what it was. Yeah. I just wanted to. It's a massive week of, like's obviously broadcast numerous judges and I was like this is funny in the week that I was I was sitting reading that and then the kind of questions they

were asking I really enjoyed your article because I think it challenged the perception that I've always felt I don't know what I wanted to do I wanted to challenge people yeah I wanted to do. I wanted to challenge people. So I'm really glad that it did that. in your article, but we also can't assume that jurors have greater clarity in terms of what is going on in the game. And I think that's the argument that you were making, that they can be wrong based on what their filters are, which is why the onus is on the players first of all in as far as you can control it um look at who are the the jurors who are most likely to be on your side i i think and and i got criticized for this a lot in my second season was thinking too far ahead but i think part of it is making sure that people who are not likely to vote

to you don't make it into the jury pool to begin with. And that is part of the social game. So, yes, jurors can be wrong based on if their reading of the game at the time is incorrect. If their reading of the game at the time is incorrect. If their reading of the game at the time is correct and is accurate, it can't be. Yeah. I think in terms of constructing the end game, which was a part of the article, maybe it's more,

it's less about trying to construct the jury, which is so hard, versus especially if like, you know, you're on other tribes like you know you get to a point where you're at the merge with people you can't control at all if they go but maybe it's more about who you sit next to compared to like how the jurors will feel about them compared to you um yeah so the article was like can jurors be wrong I find it to be the most contentious controversial I had so much anxiety about writing it it took me months because sometimes I would just be like I cannot look at you anymore I would be like I don't want to put I don't want to publish it people are going to call me an idiot um and I would just like not look at it for like three weeks but um I'm really

proud of the article and uh the confessional thank you the confessional which is what Rob and Kevin Jacobs are doing it's like it's just like a great way to like put out kind of like longer form essays around reality tv and the reason i wanted to do it was because they've put out a lot of articles that have challenged me on beliefs that i have on like you know lie about your profession like we spoke about that today the mistake i've always said that's a huge mistake and kevin wrote an article about it and i thought this is how i mean you know think about things in different ways i don't know that i agree but like i'm thinking and um i just wanted to be like thought provoking and interesting and i just wanted all the nuance

that i possibly had around what well there's even more you could write but it's like my favorite topic in Survivor because it's so complicated the jury um and so I just poured everything that I had into it and then like refined it over months and um I really enjoyed doing that so thank you to Kevin and Rob for giving me that I would like to follow up on that Shannon maybe if it's taken you a couple of months maybe it's worth looking at I don't know maybe say five case studies of jurors that were considered

to have made the incorrect decision yeah well one I didn't give you the answer because the Russell Hans one is is the first one that generally comes to mind you know, as to what could have happened.

Yeah. Yeah, for me, I don't feel like Russell is a good, I said this on Facebook when I posted it, I don't think Russell's a good example of the kind of incorrect jury because I kind of feel like Russell's an example of a terrible social game. And if people feel terribly about you, in some ways maybe you can't control that, people feel terribly about you, like in some ways,

maybe you can't control that. And I spoke about biases, but like Russell could, that was on Russell. And I feel like he became the face of the movement erroneously where he shouldn't be the face, but maybe other people should be or more individual votes are problematic or kind of difficult to reconcile. And that's not true of me for, for Russell. So I didn't put in examples into the article because I didn't kind of want it to become about names and I wanted to be about yeah it was also already too long before I got into kind of the case studies but I definitely had some some examples inspiring my thinking Russell was not one of them I feel like

versus villains is a very good discussion around that though because it was almost close enough and it was it was the right kind of thinking heroes versus villains I think yeah I mean I mean there's so many and like I've spoken about them on the podcast you know one of the seasons that I've covered but I do think that the Russell like Russell like he set the discussion back because now people will be like, Russell should have lost. Your jurors can't be wrong. It's like, no, Russell should have lost because he had a bad social game. It's actually not as much even about the jury. It's much more just about the fact that like that one's quite cut and dry for

me. And I think there's more complex quotes that are more nuanced than Russell, but yeah, I didn't give the examples, but that's a fun guessing game. Read the article. Let me know who you think I'm subtweeting in the content. And if you've listened to my podcast about some of these final decisions, some of that might be quite clear, but I didn't want to take it all the way there. But, you know, I'm going to probably retweet it again in case you've missed it. It's on, yeah, the confessional. If you go to Rob has a website and go to newsletter, they're doing great stuff every week. Sign up and then you get it to your inbox every week i always really enjoy the articles i love being part of it um yeah that's it subscribe to the international cyber have ups feed follow me

at shannon gates don't miss the after show next week that's where i'll be so i'm not doing survival global but i'll be on the after show i think that's all i have to give teresa thank you so much for the two hours that we spent together and And this was on video, by the way. If you missed the video, then you missed my cat, you missed Teresa's son, and you missed out. So, okay, now I'm done. Thank you, Teresa. Thank you for a great... Thank you. Bye, Shannon. Thank you so much. Thank you to everyone

for listening. Thank you to our team behind the scenes. And I will see you on the after show. Bye. Bye! The adventure of a lifetime.