RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: Rome, Split Votes and The Fandom | S47 Ep 6 with Dino Paulo and Marian De Vos

Episode Date: October 26, 2024

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss talks to Survivor South Africa legends Dino Paulo and Marian De Vos about Rome's chaos, the split vote, ranking the Chissy points and production decisions for the all-new mergatory.

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1 million euros. 1 million euros. Hello everyone and welcome to RHAP's coverage of Survivor 47 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shannon Guss here to discuss episode 6 aka Murgatory aka Merge. There was a reward challenge to an immunity challenge back in my day we used to just call that a regular episode but now it's a twist on a twist and we have 360 all the way back around to just being Survivor which is great and I'm very excited to talk about it with two guests got a bit of a duo here who tore it up Return of the Outcasts got to the top three one of them won one of them technically didn't win but that's not important we're all winners here not me they're both winners here

on this podcast and i'm very very excited to talk about this with two huge super fans and incredible survivor players in their own right first up it is the winner survivors of africa return of the outcast he is a pre-merger, which I guess defines his identity. And we can talk about that today. It'd be great, you know, thank you for being here. Oh, Shannon, thank you so much for having me as always.

Really, yeah, really fun to be on the pod. Always intimidating. I've always said this, I feel like an imposter coming to the across. You were a survivor. But super, super glad I got my partner in crime here, Marion.

I know we didn't actually have a, I was just thinking this we didn't have a um a name for our alliance but it was probably one of the strongest alliance which is quite funny we're gonna have to figure out a name at some point we'll come up with it today yeah marino most close enough to mariano oh my god marion obsessed with Boston Rob. Dino, Marion, it's right there. Very excited. We've gotten ahead of not even introducing Marion, I will say. Third place, fan favorite,

large South Africa legend in her own right is the great Marion DeVos. Marion, thank you for being here. Hello. Thank you for having me. Also, if Dino has imposter syndrome today, then I don't know what i have because currently my anxiety has anxiety but um yeah thank you for having me this is my first podcast in maybe two years so special thank you so much you guys you you have imposter syndrome how many days

of survivor have you each played two seasons at least for both of you like please stop it but i am very excited that i immediately came up with the perfect alliance name it took seconds you guys were on the island together for weeks like this is this is actually unacceptable because it is i think it's perfect right also mariana is a big redemption for me since you voted me out it's my full name and he just gets an o so exactly actually dino's got the i n o to be honest no he's just got the o so can i just have it? Oh, wow.

He had a lot of O's. I'm eternally in debt to Marion, so I will take the L's from here on out. No problem. I'll take none of the letters whatsoever. We are the Marion Alliance. That's great, too. That's great, too. This is so much fun. you know i was but i was

excited yeah when when andy said if you are a pre-merger that's your whole identity what impact you made on the game then i'm like well we are having two people from the pre-merge versus post merge season including a pre-merger turned winner so you know what andy things can be turned around okay if you are a pre-merger on the show do you know how did that resonate for you as a pre-merger turned post-merger turned winner of the game? So it's so interesting. I always have such empathy and compassion for pre-mergers in general, in particular since Season 8, obviously.

So all the new era pre-mergers, you know, I reach out to like a lot of the contestants and just be like, you know, strength be with you because I know what it's like it is incredibly tough no no it's not i just like people i like people but no it's it's incredibly tough and it's the side of the game that's that's that's difficult that's not shown is the post game and how you sit with the coulda shoulda wouldas right and everybody sits with them at some point you know even if you get very close to the end like marion will tell you, she came as close as you possibly can. She'll have her own baggage.

But going pre-merge, there's just so much more, particularly if you're a massive fan. So I know for Andy, this redemption and being able to turn his game around and being that much closer to the jury would be massive. And he's warranted in saying that, you know. It's a big thing. There is a big step. I mean, only a small portion of people don't make merge or don't make jury.

You know, it's a smaller number than do. So, like, that FOMO gets even bigger. It's not like an exclusive club. It's an exclusive club that a lot of people are a part of, you know, the jury. And you're,'re like one of the very few outsiders so it's very intimidating um so it does resonate with me and that's why i'll never forget i'll never forget my my path you know and appreciate it yeah well it's actually funny like in marianne's wedding speech she said how like connor reached out to her this is a bit

of a tangent but it's podcasting um you know connor reached out because she said you know what she said about zach after he was voted out first and And she was like, so if Zach wasn't so bad at Survivor, then this would not be happening. And I was like, Zach was across from me. I'm like, Zach, I don't think you're bad at Survivor. I had so much empathy for him at that moment. I'm like, you're not bad at Survivor. And he was just like, I don't care. So he seemed above it.

But yeah, I always am like, no, it breaks my heart for people who don't get the the full experience but that's why we need pre-merge versus post-merge seasons um Marion as you said you haven't podcasted in a while how are you guys firstly like before we kind of get into it Marion yes it's been a long time how's how have you been um it's been a long time and I'm gonna be in a lot of trouble because um I haven't podcasted in two years but it's not a lack of like all the podcasters inviting me on um I'm very open yeah no no so it's I'm very open that I struggle with anxiety so like things like this are very intimidating to me even though like I've played twice I've come third I'm fan favorite like I love the game I. I know the game, but like, I don't know. I don't know if it's like a public speaking thing, if it's like,

you're such a professional Dino, so well spoken, like, you know? So, um, yeah, I'm good. I, what's my life been like? I recently resigned from a very toxic job. So yay. Um, I also also recently um recently broken my finger but um yeah I feel like resigning I took control of my life my mental health is the best it's been I guess in a year um I started a new degree at my big age and it's killing me but yeah you know life is life putting that all to be here we appreciate it mentally I'm good emotionally I'm good um yeah it's awesome do you know we heard from you

more recently how are you yeah I mean still good um you know still loving loving our business I'm very grateful to to to do what I do um. And that's been growing steadily and we're going into peak season now. So lots of work, but the best kind. Personally, Kirsten and I have still been living life in Cape Town. We really dig it here. Recently, we were away for a couple of weddings and they were amazing, but it's always good to be back home here. So, yeah, I mean, we're in a good space.

We're excited. here. So yeah, I mean, we're in a good space. We're excited. Kirsten's also resigning from her job to move to another role or job. So that's very exciting for us because we can have more time to spend with each other and lots of skydiving as much as I can get in. So yeah, things have been good. And yeah, that's why I guess I'm always happy to do things like this and just hang out with friends and chat about something that I really, really love, which is always Survivor. Yeah, quit your jobs.

Very much the theme of that breakdown of your life, which is great. I'm taking that on board. So excited to have you guys. Marion, thank you for skipping some lectures to be here. We appreciate it. This is the real lecture, the Survivor lecture. How have you been feeling about the season so far?

Are you enjoying it? Who are like the standouts for you? To be honest, I've been so busy with varsity work that I really only started watching the season on Thursday. So I binged it. That's a lot. It was a lot. And then I re-watched the last episode this morning.

So yeah, I think my standouts currently, I love Sam. Genevieve, I like Genevieve. For me, she's like, she's got a little bit of poverty and a little bit of Kim Spaulding. Yeah. And then a whole lot of Genevieve. And I like that. I like that.

Like she's such, she's a authentic self but she's also got like a little bit of two of the best to ever do it and then um who else do I like I think Teenie's so cute and I feel like myself and Teenie would drink all the wine together um she's really adorable um I really like Sue um yeah and then I guess oh Kyle I feel like Kyle's so endearing he's just like an overall good guy that you just want to root for him and then Rome yeah so much to say about Rome so much to unpack um about Rome he was interesting yes that's the thing about Rome is like you could not have a reaction to Rome for how many millions of people watch the show there is not one you could ask to be like how do you feel about Rome and they're like I have no opinion on that and I think that's important you know like when you're watching tv love him or hate

him and I think that like at worst you should like love to hate him like for me I think Rob made the fair play comparison and I don't hate that either like he's a heel and I think that like at worst, you should like love to hate him. Like for me, I think Rob made the fair play comparison and I don't hate that either. Like he's a heel. And I think when a story kind of has, you know, he lost at the end of the day, like his actions had consequences. Someone like Sol wins after Rome gets a couple of wins. And like for me, that's like an interesting and very entertaining story.

Even if like he's grading on you, like again, like that's an emotion. So yeah, Dino, how are you feeling about the season and Rome to this point yeah so I think it's it's a great new era season I think production's finding far better balance with the with some of the game mechanics they've refined them over time and I think they're slowly but surely getting better not that I'm not saying I love everything that they're doing but I think the things that they are doing, they're doing better than what they did before. From a casting perspective, I think their casting is just so good, man.

I think the casting has been amazing. I love, I love everybody and everybody's dynamics. Standout players for me as well. I mean, like, Sam has been obviously standout, very, very vocal, great narrator. You know, I love his and Sierra's dynamics.

It's been interesting to see how tight they are in trying to navigate, you know, personal interests over combined interests. Andy's been endearing in the sense that, you know, he had a catastrophic episode one, and I know exactly what that is like. And he's been able to work his way back into the mix and survive, which is ultimately the objective of this game is to survive. So I find that incredibly endearing to see him turning it around, which is great.

You know, Kyle's been great from a, like Marion says, an endearing character. Also love Genevieve, exact same reasons. I think she's such a great balance of player. She's entertaining, quirky. She's not like good or bad. She's like a little bit of mischief, a whole lot of fun. So she's been an absolute pleasure to watch.

She's like, I'm just going to keep going, rattling, rattling. Obviously, I'm out here hard, you know, in the Rachel corner, no doubt. And I'm super proud of my girl for how she's doing so far, especially after a really hectic blindside the previous episode. And on the Rome comments, I think he's casting gold. I think he makes it onto freaking every single casting list there is out there because he just delivers. And well done to him.

And anybody who plays the game, if you want to make an impact on the game, go out and do what Rome does. There's no guarantee that you're even going to make it to the end or make it to merge or whatever. But at the very least, what he's done is he can truly say he's left it all out there. And big up to him for doing that.

So not that I would be actively supporting him to win the game you know he probably rubs me up the wrong way the way he rubbed a couple of players up but he's phenomenal tv so I think it's it's that entire mix is made for a great season so far I've really enjoyed it yeah I mean Rome brought the entertainment you can't say that he wasn't you know a presence on screen to the point where though what we see this week I feel like has to be like near unprecedented like this is 12 people really kind of unanimously voting for Rome and like the thing that's interesting about it and we could talk through it is like you know after every episode of try think like it was this good phone who was bad for and like but something

to be so communally beneficial I feel for 12 people will not will cause my voting but he would right so he's also putting really putting the name out there so I think that this is beneficial I feel for 12 people will not vote. Karl's not voting, but he would, right? So he's also putting, really putting the name out there. So I think that this is beneficial for everyone. And that I think speaks to Rome. And it speaks to a couple of things, but yeah, I think that like for Rome, especially for me, once Genevieve went out of her way

to take away, we can talk about, you know, the evolving nature of her move against Kishan, but once she went out of her way to save Rome against a good other option in staying with her other allies because she had so many options she goes out of her way save rome to keep him really for him because she wanted to kind of nurture that and then the next episode he goes to sol throws genevieve under the bus tells the truth to sol about how genevieve doesn't work want to work with sol and genevieve has to recover from that i was like all bets are off once he can do that to Genevieve no one can work with him so the interesting thing about this is while like someone

like Sue might have a bit of a Tiana problem while Goddard might have a Rachel issue while Carl is even a bit of a disconnect from someone like Sue it's still I think better for them to have that like containable threat even someone like yeah Rachel is a bigger threat to me if i'm if i'm sam as an example then then rome in in what i can kind of envision but rome who knows what he's gonna do you know and no one can trust it even people he's giving real information to like sue can never trust that rome will not turn on you he will turn clearly on anyone so it's so beneficial to me for every person in the game to just get rid of that. And added benefit, it's a communal vote where no one has to put his name out. Like he gets the ball rolling.

Kyle just reacts. Everyone can very passively just agree without putting themselves out there. Like it's so easy and so right to the point where I just, I don't know that I've ever seen anything like that. So Marion, do you agree? Can you see anything for anyone of why it might be valuable keeping Rome as like a shield or a distraction or anything compared to the fact of but also what will he do and how scary is that you know in just like the fear of that

I don't see that honestly I wouldn't have kept him um He's just, I think he was a little too patronizing, but I also think he was doing way too much, way too fast. You know, I feel like if he had maybe gone to Oni Tiano or Oni Sam or Oni Sue and given them the information that Kyle passed on to him, like give it to one person and let that person's paranoia run with it and do the work for you. Rome would probably still be here, but you don't go to three, four different people and feed them stories.

For paranoid people, it's a lot to deal with. So I think Rome's mistake was just spreading too much information too fast. He had to choose one target and like like you know let that target explode and run off with it but also again you know I've seen a lot of Rome hate sorry Rome hate online and again I always like stress the fact that how you play the game is not generally who you are in real life like I don't think think Rome is patronizing and manipulative and all these things in real life. I think Rome's problem or the way my opinion and how I see it,

he wanted to come into the game and make a huge impact. And he had like this preconceived perception of what a great survival player should be and how they should act and what the confessional should be and what the fans sitting on the couch want to see so I think he had like so much in his head and and had Rome just maybe dialed back a little bit and and been a little bit more of his authentic self I think he could have possibly gone far in the game because he's not a bad player like he's he really wasn't a bad player. I just think like he just did a little too much, a little too fast. And there was some distaste, you know, following Sol around was, you know, there's only one Boston Rob.

He got the body system down, just like leave it, you know. Also don't come in and go like there's a Boston Rob. Surely, you know, I can beat Boston Rob Jr. I don't know what his exact words are. And again, there's only one Boston Rob. Like why try and be like a second somebody else when you can be like your first authentic self. And I think that's what creates me about Ro. If I'm making sense. I love Marion's like, I haven't podcast in two years, guys.

I really can't do that. She just drops good point after good point after good point she's like I've analyzed Rome as a human being and he's like it was great like Marion exactly you have nothing to worry about but I do think that that is a really good point because going to Sue um as an example he got something done Sue has a confessional where she's like oh I want Carl out there's a real divide there he's using real information that Carl did give him. And we can talk about that. Like, I think that you are right.

Like last week, Rome gave the information about Teeny's amulet to Sol. And that was good and true and real. And that could have made like some constructive, like progressive strategy around maybe Sol turning on Teeny. But then at the point that he throws Genevieve under the bus, again, way too far in the relationship with Genevieve. And Genevieve is not, it was true, but it wasn't't verifiable and now it all kind of gets mixed up into like basically you're only as strong as your weakest lie so now all of it's off the table and Carl can like also skate that's a hard word to

say on a podcast why would I try but Carl can cover for all of it even though a lot of what Rome said about Carl was true so he picked one path and he actually made some impact with Sue had he chosen his people to be like he said you and caroline were really close and all of these negative things about you that might have been a path but yeah building on something like the tiana thing which really felt like he as much as he in exits is saying that's what carl said as much as he in confessional was saying carl said it you know that that she was the biggest threat um we see rowan very much put it out and Kyle say like, that's fair. So that didn't seem to make sense.

That didn't vibe with the relationship that Kyle and Tiana have had. Like he went to the wrong people. You're right. He should have been like, I've got a lot of good information. Let me sift. You know, like he wasn't a good editor. Like, let me edit that down

to what's valuable to me. Choose the right relationships, move forward with them. And again, with Sue, it did work, but then it went so broad that then Kyle had the chance to be like, oh, Sue, that's not what he meant. I so broad that then Kyle had the chance to be like, oh, Sue, that's not what he meant.

I can show that he has lied. So you are so right that had he chosen a path, he could have made good on some of that, but he just, he didn't know how to not do it all. He was always doing just way too much, you know, that's obvious. But on one pathway, you know, there was some good stuff there that he could have just got rid of the rest to make good on that. What do you think, Dina know no so so i agree i think marion's point of um him actually being somewhat a good player he had he had like really good concepts and i think he just needed to slow down really and and really good

ones and through a number of uh number of stages of this game, but he just tried to do everything all at once to the most extreme degree. And I think if he had slowed it down a little bit and maybe didn't get drunk on the need to play hard and play big and control everything and drive everything and maybe fuel the own ego and the story that just snowballed in his head of his perception of story that just snowballed in his head of his perception of himself that just got bigger and bigger,

he would have actually done some really great things in the game. He just needed to learn the art of subtlety, which I think Marion is an absolute pro at, if I do say so myself. So Marion is the best person to talk about this in terms of like sowing seeds of chaos in a way that's not so in your face. Right. And the reason I say that as well is because you see it in, you know, he plants the seed about, you know, Sam being this big threat. And it's true. People do see him as this big threat. It's been this overarching story that we've seen. Right. People mentioning the power couple and he decides to throw his vote onto sam where

you can hide in and amongst 12 other or 11 other votes um and throw one onto sam to kind of feed a bit of you know a paranoia on sam's side so a bit of uh discord what would you say yeah just so seeds of doubts you know in people's minds and he can just decline and go like hey i was i was going for soul or i was going for whatever you know and be like everybody knows where my vote went so he had great concepts but he just he just lacked the art of subtlety do you agree marion from a as a as a chaos sewer 100 i agree like people people need to. And I think a lesson for anyone that, well, my advice to anyone that ever wants to play survival, sometimes it's more about the smarter moves than the bigger moves. And I think, again, I say,

Rone came into this game with like a preconceived perception of how he wants to be seen and like the legacy he wants to leave on the game. And that's great, but the best game you're going to play is when you're being your authentic self. And also, I think I agree with Dino. He lacked when it came to subtlety, but also he lacked self-awareness. Oh, yeah. Like, if 13 people, if you think that 13

people are voting with you and are writing the name down that you are giving them that's a red flag because that very rarely happens in survival yeah it's a little easy it's too easy and if it's too easy

and it's too good to be true trust me it's too good to be true on the me, it's too good to be true. On the flip side, though, ironically, then it became very easy on the other way. It's too easy. No vote could be that easy. And then, like, every person is like, Rome, yes. It's true.

It's true. It's true. It was happening on the other. But it was only happening with such ease on the other side because of the uniqueness of exactly who Rome is, which, again, I think is unprecedented. Like, and he thinks Saul is that person, but it was him. Like, I do think that the Sam vote that he throws out was so emblematic of like the Rome game.

Like it personified everything so perfectly. It was so chaotic and antisocial and unnecessary. It was doing the most again, based on completely the wrong read where he's gotten so many votes out there. It's so unanimous for him that his vote doesn't matter when all the votes pretty much technically are coming on to him like that just perfectly summed it up and this is from someone who had a secret scene where he's like i just want to chill

at the merge and go with the flow and be shown as a laid-back guy so i think that that lack of self-awareness to me is the issue um i think it's very hard to play survivor with without the basis of game and self-awareness that I think that Rome really lacked. You know, going into exit interviews that I find, you know, like you need to have like a dollop of salt because they're in contrast to everything we've seen. They're in contrast to everything like, you know, with like Kishan's exit interview where he's like,

we were four good to go. It's like Kishan's like, we were always taking out Rome. You know, even now his sense of reality seems very divorced from the kind of snippets that we're getting from kind of all of you know the episode and the other exits and stuff and I think that that is really hard like I do think with someone like Rome I think the way he approached the game and whether that's who he is or how he wanted to play in this way where you know there is like looming survivor 50 people do want to make an impact he does seem like he wants to bring the entertainment and as a tv character you know we should not we shouldn't criticize that um but i do think like what's actually impressive was that

this didn't happen at the first tribal council and to his credit he did some good things that made him not the immediate target he found the idol he had it you know strictly for the first tribe when he showed that and he had it as like a really relevant secure shield he had genevieve for long enough that it feels like genevieve now and we can talk about it maybe wrongly went out and a lot maybe you know wrongly went on on a limb to save him and that was building off i think of pretty low basis points that rome came in on but by the time he got here you know everything came home to roost he didn't have one person of 12 to tip him off to use a shot in the dark not one leak not one person willing to stand up for him even like remotely not even someone who i think is in confessional like i

don't want to put myself out there but if i could every single social decision he had made came back to this point so and i think that yeah he'd done some good stuff to kind of avoid that tool now, but also I think we kind of saw all of that, you know, avalanche come down on him in this episode. Any more on Rome? Do we have more on Rome? No, no. So it comes down to, you're going to love this one.

It comes down to talk less, smile more, don't let them know what you're against, what you're for. Right? Yes. It's very much that. I've much that. If he just took a moment to chill and actually observe instead of just trying to drive his own agenda, he would have gotten so much more information that he could then make educated and informed decisions on instead he was so hell-bent on driving his agenda that he missed um any sort of social cues missed uh the pockets of information that he could have had and and i'll go into like you know there's been the soul versus um rome thing this this entire game

and you know just completely like it's almost rabbit in the hair-esque you know with with soul versus rome where soul has kind of been taking this slow slow game like so and easy taking chill yeah happy days finding the information having very casual subtle conversations he's this really um genuine he comes across as super authentic which i think he he genuinely is he's patient he's he he just takes the time to listen and then he responds and people trust that. And then in exchange, he gets information. Like, for example, I made a note here where the whole Tiana, Kyle has thrown your name out as a major threat.

And Sol says, hey, Tiana, Kyle's not going to admit that to you. Let me go have a chat with him. There's a couple of things that's great about that is, yes, it's true. Tiana's not going to get anything out of it of value. Sol gives himself an opportunity to go build a relationship with somebody he's seen as doing something with Tiana. He gets an opportunity to go like, hey, Kyle, this is what's out there, you know, build that relationship.

But at the same time, Sol's got his own bias about Rome. So he can taint Rome if he needed to, which I don't think he needed to. He could drive the story on both sides to Tiana and Kyle very subtly if he needed to direct it, which, like I say, Rome did that on his own. But also in that moment, Kyle gets heated up and instantly gives him valuable information in the game.

Oh, do you know I don't have a vote? Now Sol has one bit of information more than he had before. And that's very, it's amazing. And that's why I say like the games are so opposite. So if you just take a moment to understand like what are people's needs? What do they need? And you start going like, well, what does that player need? Let me be that for them.

Let me help them achieve that because then I'm a value to them. And yeah, I'm going to get something out of it as well. You know? Wait, Rome is Hamilton. Seoul is Burr. Why do you play like you're running out of time, but Seoul's willing to wait for it? I cannot unsee it.

I will go through the whole music. It makes sense. It's so perfect. It's killing me. It's just so perfect And I am obsessed with it And as a Burr fan Like I'm rooting for Soul

And I think that that is excellent Yeah Mary What do you think about How Soul was kind of doing here He got the win How are you feeling about Soul Slash Burr I

Honestly this episode I think Soul was my favourite His conversation that he had With I think think it's Tiana and Andy at some point, Tiana goes like, he's throwing, you know, Kyle's throwing my name out there. And Saul's literally just like cleaning his teeth. And he's like, yo, don't believe anything that Rome says, because this is how he plays the game. And that's the the subtlety like

the art of subtlety that it was so effortless you know he was cleaning his teeth but just him saying that at the right moment like now he's got a bond with like Tiana and Andy and now Tiana and Andy are going to spread the fact that like yo don't, don't trust Rome. This is how he plays the game. So, like, all the love to Sol for this episode. I felt so bad for him, and I literally just, like, wanted to jump through the screen in the episode when Rome was following him. Because it was so, like, cringe to see, and, like, had Rome done that to me, I'd have probably punched him.

But I felt so sorry punched him but I felt so sorry for him because like there's one thing having a Boston Rob system it's another thing if like you don't even get like two seconds to yourself I don't think people loved it when Boston Rob was doing it either Marion I don't know how to tell you that I know but you know you

Marion loved it I feel like you might have Boston Rob goggles where you're like, people loved it when he did it. It's like, no, I don't think anyone really liked it. It won, but it won by fear and kind of like oppression rather than by like, you know, social. It was a dictatorship. Yeah, exactly.

Look, the system worked. But Marion, I don't think the people were like. I'm very unbiased, except when it comes to Robyn, people know that. Someone now, Boston Rob, just not any Rob, Boston Rob. It's not the other Rob, it's the name of the podcast. But yeah, I like...

Guys, okay, this is not a podcast about how much Marion loves Boston Rob. It is. It really has been a major thing. I'm not going to mention his name again. Yeah, redacted. Just man props to Saul because, you know, things like that, like it doesn't take much on Survivor to just like devastate you

and deplete you. And sometimes you really just need that time out alone on the beach for like two minutes to like get yourself together. But like Rome wasn't even affording him that so my heart really melted for him in the previous episode but I think he did so well um in this episode and I'm just like I'm loving his subtlety I'm loving the fact that he's creating all this bond so effortlessly and you know whether people see him as a number or whatever like i i don't think sol's gonna leave us anytime soon well yeah i hope not yeah so to add to that like we talk about um

feeling depleted so in the ordinary course it's it's it's tough to to bite your lip sometimes you know and i really appreciate a player who already, we know people are deprived at a rapid rate. So you're really tired. You're really hungry. You're going to be the worst version of yourself in this game yet. So I can still like keep his pride in his pocket, not react, keep his cool.

He's got this objective in mind. He says, well, what is the goal here? The goal isn't to beat Rome here and now. And let me just, just lay down the rule and let this youngster talk to me like this and put him in his place or you know and which in the ordinary course he'd probably you know have have taken a different different approach but he's like well this is a game this is the impact he maps everything out so he's not reactive he doesn't seem to be reactive at all he's quite cool calm um and and thoughtful um with his approach and and it's really not an easy environment to be those things in so it speaks a lot to his his character um and it's a great great skill and a very valuable skill in this game that i hope

takes him far what i do worry about is sometimes that can be seen as quite passive and that might be a hard thing to articulate at the end of the game. But I mean, shit, that's only a problem if you get to the end of the game and you need to just get there to the end to be able to pitch your case. So he's giving himself the best opportunity to go deeper, you know, and you can cross that bridge when you get there. I just want to say something, Mary. You feel like all anxious to come on the podcast.

At least you didn't say a rabbit versus the hare instead of tortoises versus the hair so i'm really that's such a good point they're both fast that sounds like an interesting i mean that's just a race the rabbit versus the hair i said it was everyone it's fine brain typos are a big part of life and podcasting but look i um i you know what I really liked about Sol in this episode other than like yes he pushed it on Rome he got the win Rome makes himself an easy target but like Sol in his subtle way like you know fully buried him and I thought that was

great but even more than that Sol was Rome's target and so well insulated to the point where like at the feast before they know who Rome is throwing out now that Carl you know is not a possible name yeah okay at that point maybe Sue's worried about Gabe's you want to throw out Gabe Sam's been a target you don't want it to be yourself like at that point maybe you throw out Andy and maybe that and maybe that name does just take hold but here's what impressed me there were two votes on Andy why does anyone care enough to even create this divide just let Rome vote for Sol no one could possibly be mad right no or even then just let Sol vote for Andy then let him be the split let him protect himself but they put two votes on to on to um Andy Sue puts a vote onto Andy.

And I don't know how to really blame Sue for that. We see Sue put the name out of Andy. We see Sue vote for Andy. It's possible someone else put out the name. It's possible that the group just said, hey, you're the other Andy vote. But Sue's the one who does that. And I just think that that shows a real insulation for Saul.

And Sam even goes to Saul and is like, oh, I would want to keep you. They're really trying to protect him. And maybe there's a sense of like Rome is chaotic. He doesn't even end up voting for Sol. And Sam even goes to Sol and is like, oh, I would want to keep you. They're really trying to protect him. And maybe there's a sense of like, Rome is chaotic. He doesn't even end up voting for Sol. So like, who knows what he'll do. But like, the high, high odds are Rome is going to get blindsided. And the fact that they care enough to like really follow through with a two vote split for me is quite extreme. And I want to talk through whether they should have even done that. But I do think it speaks to how much people care to it seems other than the chaos of growing possibly insulate soul who was someone they just met and they shouldn't really care that much about if it bounces back onto soul

which is incredibly unlikely in and of itself yeah it speaks volumes this this doesn't say like it's it's one thing it goes this is a main target you should be fine to well this is our main target but we want to work with you. Yeah. You are important to our game, so we need you here. It's like generally collateral damage. Oh, well, it's collateral damage. Well, too bad.

You know, if you go, you go. But this is saying, like, we actually can't afford for that because you fit somewhere in our plans. We like you. It might not even be that you fit in plans. They just like you. See you as more valuable. And they're like, well, let's put somebody else off especially when it's like um like you say soul could have just taken

the one and the one and there would be a split and then a potential re-vote um or if you played a shot in the dark and solve voters enough like sold one vote is probably fine it's it's probably fine yeah exactly so it's like yeah so they go out of their way to to to actually protect him and we see there is going to be blowback for that in the preview to next episode that was the risk they were willing to kind of take you know so yeah yeah it's it's a great showing of the social game so far that's interesting to me because yeah if soul just votes for andy then you know soul obviously is going to try to protect himself and then that becomes a very individual thing and it's like for andy you could have done

that too you know you could be scared that he's voting for you or that you know soul might throw a name out like you can always vote throw out and everyone can do a one vote individual split and if that's what soul wants to speak to you know then it would be met like hard for andy to be mad at the group and it would be very much between like soul and andy like individual just like you know then it would be met like hard for Andy to be mad at the group and it would be very much between like Sol and Andy like individual just like you know self-preservation but to go out of their way to put two votes when firstly it would mean that Rome has to wise up to the 12 person blind side that is currently happening where he thinks he's controlling the vote you're probably fine then he has to have something now they know that he played something and it's someone who can find something but he has less time to find it because he's already played something or he has to play he

shot in the dark and hit it um at that point anyway there would be zero votes so maybe he has to have an ally clearly everyone's against him one ally who's voting with him it was so likely that Rome was going home and they still cared to put two votes like is it the chaos of thinking Rome has an extra vote is it trying to be too conservative with the fear of all of these new era things maybe but again for like Seoul probably also getting the backlash of that the fact that they went out so far on a limb for Andy like again I think it speaks to um I think it speaks to Seoul's relationship and possibly just some like fear and being like ultra conservative around it and I don't think that I back it for the group.

I think I would have just been like, Sol, that's your one name. Yeah. So I think that that good for Sol. And I kind of, I like for someone like Sue who we saw throw it out. I see that as a negative. What's in this McDonald's bag? The McValue Meal. For $5.79 plus tax, you can get your choice of Junior Chicken, McDouble, or Chicken Snack Wrap, plus small fries and a small fountain drink.

So pick up a McValue Meal today at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. Prices exclude delivery. So, I mean, seeing as we're still, you know, talking about this vote, going into a vote like this at this stage of the game, I think most people want to be low-key. You don't want to draw lines too early you've just met your other tribe mates you're ascertaining like you you know where you're or you think you know where your position in your original tribe is um you want

to kind of figure out where you slot into other tribes you're trying to figure out where people slot in with each other so you don't want to have to draw a line and piss the wrong person off right so rome's done the majority a massive favor. So this idea that we had earlier, we were talking about, like, do you keep Rome on longer? Do you get rid of him now? He's done them a massive favor by giving them, like, a very obvious target. The only blowback being this Andy, these two votes Andy. I think if it's one vote Andy um you know very different very very different

kind of blowback um because you could put that onto the Rome or you could put it onto um whoever but um the uh the question Javier is that you know we've now gotten to this you know 12 or 13 person uh vote and in previous seasons we've had this split where 13 people vote but for only six so do we prefer this as a mechanic uh to what it was in prior seasons do we do we prefer this change where you know you've got the one individual meaning necklace and everybody else is fair game yeah i'm just thinking like i want to talk that through it but i'm just thinking like yeah the way that this blows back for Sol having one vote on him is, like, Rome has an idol and wises up and has an extra vote. And now Sol's got home, like, Sol would be robbed or has one ally, which is even less likely, I think.

Like, and that's how much they cared to put on it or maybe just wasn't an optimal split. And in that case, like, I should criticize it. I don't like when splits aren't optimal. But yeah, Marion, what did you think about, and I want to talk more about the split board, because I think it's fascinating, the whole way this went. But yeah, what about this new twist? Now, I'm going to blow your mind.

Like, we're 24 years into Survivor, so we're going to have to keep it very, very innovative, original. The twist was they're going to do a challenge as groups and then one group will win food and then they'll compete individually. And then one person will earn the merge of having immunity. Now it's bold. It's new. It's not just a reward and immunity challenge because that would just be where we started 24 years ago, which I like.

So yes, it was different, but it was also the same so how do you feel about the fact that they went back to their roots Marion with this twist playing two challenges for reward and immunity yeah so if anyone knows me they know that like I am old school to the bone to my core and I'm sorry but like earning the merge like I still can't wrap my head around it like I've grafted for like half the game I've did things to keep myself in the game I should just be given the merge like I earned it you know so honestly like I don't I don't like the earn the merge thing and you know people might come for me for saying this but I think no one likes that no one's just like Jeff stop um yeah I don't like it to be honest um I guess I like the fact that

only one person was safe so it opens up you know yeah having a more dynamic um i like that but i mean if we could go back to to old school days and and just you know whatever day it is whether it's day 11 or day 20 and we're merging um you know we've merged like imagine we merged you know after like doing everything that we've done like we were through the changes and Nico comes and says like you need to earn the merge but isn't just winning a beauty earning the merge like isn't every round you uh you don't get voted out earning the next round it's a glorified uh you know merge pre-juror boot

you know where it's I mean that's the only difference is you just don't get a buff which is pretty shit you've got this

you guys have merged you're all together you're all together for a vote some would say you know like you've merged for a vote

so it's like I'd prefer I'd still prefer that you go from three tribes to two tribes you've got a pre pre-merge swap and no no

in the merge I think that's one day they'll do it but they'll call it something else something completely different that we can't even conceive

it'll be a whole new twist but then I can't believe it's not butter well you know it's interesting because Jeff apparently on the

on fire podcast was saying how he thinks with these big votes they tend to be conservative. And it seems like that's why he's been doing Murgatory and keeping the tribes half immune all this time. And now with these big votes, it was conservative. But I do think firstly, Rome, like that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Like everything Rome is doing, a lot of that speaks to who Rome is. But I do think that if there are two kinds of factors of why this otherwise might have been conservative in approach and people don't want to like ruffle feathers, I do think firstly, they weren't expecting Murgatory. So the point where Rome's name even goes out there, and all of this is happening, or even when they're thinking about it at the individual tribes, they're thinking who's on the bottom that we can really cut if we need to. They already have those names in mind, expecting half the people to be immune and expecting like you know people to be pushed under the bus when options are limited and mercatory and i think the bigger thing is

especially because in old u.s survivors steven spoke about this and an australian survivor still to this day um you know an international survivor when there are big tribes it's not necessarily boring you know we had an interesting 13 very interesting 13 person vote this year in titans v rebels like sometimes it's a little big consensus. It's a lot of people. Sometimes it's big structured tribes, but I think that going from a small tribe, a very, very small tribe, and the maximum you've voted for is six at most,

and probably they've lost votes and already small and freaky to this many votes probably is overwhelming. And that probably does, you know, if you, especially if you've only been to one or two tribal councils, max, like, max like yeah at that point maybe you do want to just kind of like learn the game a little bit and like learn this that's a lot to corral whereas if you've come from a 12 person in australian survivor or 10 person pre-merge tribe like by the time you got to the merge you're like i'm used to these numbers let me like put numbers together heroes versus villains last year they had the vigilantes it it was big structural groups. We've definitely had big tribes.

We do it in the pre-merge too, but we have big tribes that do actually make a stand and do draw lines. But I think it's hard to do that from six, especially when you're expecting slash having Murgatory. So I think that's the thing more for me. Does that make sense? Or why do you think, Dino, that it would be conservative? Or is it just Rome? It was so specific.

I think it can lead earlier on to a bit of conservative voting. I don't disagree with that, right? And if you look at it episodically, it's like, oh, you don't want necessarily a conservative vote. But one, that is still very hard to pull off. Two, as we see now, it doesn't take a ton of votes to um create a bit of chaos you know and this vote proves it i mean there were only really two stray votes technically um 213 is not a lot but it's enough and also i think that every conservative vote that does happen with these bigger tribes it just builds

up energy. It's almost like stretching the elastic band a little further and a little further, a little further. It's going to reach breaking points and it's going to be like, okay, cool. Who's going to, who's going to pull the trigger first. And when they do, it's going to be an absolute explosion because there's been this whole built up energy.

And then all bets are off. Nothing's ever going to be the same again. And there won't be another conservative vote again, again you know because people will be scared because they've been through it so i don't necessarily disagree that big big tribes initially lead to like conservative voting but i definitely think it builds up for far more um interesting gameplay a little bit further down the line at the very least it is interesting hearing jeff talk about it because it's like okay i can see why you think you should be doing Murgatory because you think that these big votes are conservative but again you're trying to like create an outcome over like faulty information

that is just gonna you know Survivor is so subjective and so layered and so multifaceted that it could go any which way um there are extremes of production that will tend to away but even as we've seen like oh I'm going to protect the big players by having a final three and then fire and it's like people just now voting at the final five like people will work around to us especially when they're incredibly predictable as like the fact that they all knew that the merge was coming the next day and then it did like that kind of predictability of like what people might feed into and having those thoughts that's more of an issue i think than any like one specific well like there are issues but like one specific thing when you're like oh we can't let them be conservative

we can't have so many people voting we better narrow their options but now there are so narrow options with so many votes that they're scared about it bouncing back on them so now they're even more conservative you know like things will bounce around like I think that's why the purity of the game and just letting it play out tends to be the best thing to do and not just, like, relying on, like, this will definitely happen and we have to change it to the thing that I want. Because also, what if the thing that you want, as you're saying, isn't even right? What if it is conservative for a round and that makes everyone

have, like, a false sense of security? And then the final 11 vote is, like, the most, like, you know, scary thing you've ever seen. Like, I think that trying to control things um remains to be the problem but when we go to this like this the votes on andy which continue to fascinate me um i feel like this is one of the biggest changing parts of an otherwise pretty passive episode so we have what we see is sue throwing out andy and maybe someone else did and we didn't see it we see sue throwing out andy and then she goes to sam well she she says to sam and sierra who were there the allies

of andy how do you feel and they're like okay and then Sam kind of builds on it with Sol so Marion what did you think about this as an ally do you think there was something else they could have done did you rate this because I know like Stephen was very critical about like how Sam specifically handled this I thought it was actually pretty good but dicey so how did you kind of feel about the split vote from, from Goddard? I feel like when they were at, do we call it a merge feast with a sin song? Everything is just what it looks like to be.

They merge in their feasting. Okay. So, you know, I think it was very good of like Sam and Sierra from like just a game perspective and a strategy perspective. When, when Sue throws Andy's name out to, to agree with it,

even though that, you know, they wouldn't forward, you're not going to pick a fight Andy's name out to agree with it even though that you know they wouldn't for it you're not going to pick a fight you're going to agree but I'm a little bit scared for Sam in the next episode because you know Sam does tell Saul write Andy's name down and

I guess from Sam's perspective he's building a bond with Saul you know now he solidifies something with him but I'm really scared that in the next episode like Andy's gonna have like a little freak out and be like where did my why did my name appear twice um and I I fear that Saul might just be like Sam told me to vote for you and now Andy wants to get out Sam. So honestly, Sam is doing so well. And I just wish he would have told Saul, vote for Rome. And I get that everyone was scared.

Like, you know, does Rome have an idol or anything? But I, it's a good and a bad thing that Sam did. You know, he's solidifying something with Saul, but also like the blowback, especially knowing Andy from the first episode, like, you know, he potentially has the potential to have a meltdown

or a blowout. So, yeah, I'm very nervous for Sam, and Sam, I'm rooting for you. Please be here next week. So, what I find interesting is is two things and I want to break it into two parts is looking at Gada coming into this episode and then just looking at the conversation and the people that are around that conversation when

Andy's name was thrown out right so coming back from that tribal council obviously now Rachel's been completely blindsided um and she's feeling very much on the bottom which you know the vote would dictate that she is i think she handles it incredibly well to go like hey look you know it's the game i would like to have been looped in i understand it's cool well it's not just the game it's annika i want to say no one's ever been more demonized and your poor best friend who just got sent to the pre-jury pronderosa kishan anika were evil super villains who held me against my will they put a gun to my head okay and i did not want to do it andy but i'm okay she's awful you don't even know anyway i love that it's such a run of people so hard i will say to dina's point he said rachel handled it so well when her bestie was voted out because man if they had to show how i handled stephie's blindside i am so glad that they didn't have rice

to cook there they didn't get to eat their feelings mary they didn't have like half a bag of rice to steal from the truck he was threatening you and that if you didn't do what you wanted she was going to come for your family you didn't say that because I think that's not what you just got Marion straight up told us to get nutted that we were idiots I lost my shit

so again I agree with Dina Rachel handled it with so much poise you know the same way that, Rachel handled it with so much poise. You know, the same way that Sol handled the Rome bullying, so much poise. And I actually watched, like, Rachel's reaction, and I'm like, man, if I should ever play again, like, I'm going to have a little, you know.

I'm not going to call people morons. You learn on the third time. I wish they called people morons. I'm just forever grateful that, you You know it wasn't my finest moment They couldn't even air what you said It was just It was just It was the start of Marian and Dino

So I guess it wasn't Mariano Sorry Dino Rachel handed it well And she told them all what Anika had done to her there we go and and it's and it's fair and it's fine and she's although she's probably seeing I don't know where she genuinely sits on the Sierra thing I think she'll still want I think Sarah can repair that relationship um Sam I don't think so it depends on what happens

so I don't know that right but I think she's doing as well as she can with what she's got at the moment right and God as a whole is doing as well as they can with repairing those relationships coming back from a tribal and he's coming in there feeling like oh my word this was amazing you know and it's it's from the edit side I must say from an editing point of view this episode episode was super fun, just the way they edited it. And, you know, they dunked on Rome. They, you know, they really did. They dunked so much on Rome.

Like they were playing basketball, like how he says he plays basketball. Very fair. 100%. And like, you know, even Andy where it's like, oh my word, blindsides are awesome. And then he gets blindsided with his name coming out twice. Or, you know, Rome with the Sam votes

and Rome's face is like shock. I know, the fake shock. And then Rome's face comes out and then it's like, the real Rome face came out. Yeah, it was great. They were indistinguishable as well. He had a good fake shock face because they really were very similar to the real shock face

that we saw not 30 seconds later. A hundred percent. So anyway, so the editing's to be great, but yeah, so it's interesting. And the other thing I found super interesting was, you know, they, they've highlighted once or twice that Sam has, has voiced in his confessionals. I didn't want to show Andy this to break. I needed to maintain trust. Hopefully I can use this later down the line. Is it decoy? Is it thisoy is this is that so that's

come up a couple of times so i suspect that that comes into play and at the beginning of episode you think okay cool they're going to work together with something later on in the game whereas now i'm like shit they've shown us that he's excluded andy um they've shown us sam talking about using this later on the game and now there's this pre preview of andy going god is dead to me it's it's pretty cool you know what what could this could be shaping up to so anyway so that was the one dynamic to just chat a bit about guts are coming gotta coming into this episode and then also it's like well what do you do at the well right um or at the at the the non-merge merge feast the the merge feast the reward the reward so there you are with a couple of people andy who previously had said oh i'm just going to go out there and tell everyone that i'm

absolutely at the bottom that's the information that's been spread here you are with an entire tribe with this one person who's told you that they're at the bottom and they're going well this guy's at the bottom you know what about him they might have discussed other names and people weren't willing to budge because now you've got two and two which one do you pick back there now you're showing favoritism um if you're defending the one person and not the other person so it's like uh that that's giving away information so if you just take them both off the table and put it on to where there's only one option like you know perhaps there was a bit of a horse trade going on and they went with the past uh of least resistance so um that kind of ties back into you know me just thinking about how andy positioned himself

and now he's falling victim to his own strategy um which wasn't a bad strategy it's just just happened to not work in this instance so yeah i just wanted to tie those two things together for a bit of my own context I don't know. Well yeah no I do think that with, did you just say sorry to me? Please stop apologising for nothing sorry that I gave a point

We're 55 minutes in and is it only my second sorry? I'm sure it's not I'm sure you've I just took it out at this point but that one stuck out for some reason I do think that for Sam I actually rate how he handled this

preview aside on how that's going to go, we can't trust the previews, I think for me at the point where he's been thrown out and we see Sue throwing out Andy, you cannot go to bat for Andy, we saw Seager go to bat for Mariah if you're just going to bat to him as a decoy how close are gotta you know like they won't even part with him when the odds of andy

going home are incredibly low again it is based on rome having the things he need and the wherewithal incredibly unlikely to not be blindsided here like rome is out the door okay the edit knows it we know it like you can't even you can't even pretend to anyone that that's not happening. So the odds of it even bouncing back on that second person, as we're saying, as it would have even been for a soul, is very low. So throwing out Andy, he should be okay. But if Goddard won't even allow that to happen, now he's Mariah. Now they're

Seager. Now they're too close. Now the threat that Sam and Sierra have had on them is elevated further. When there has been a narrative, as you said, that Andy has put out there that is on the bottom. At that point, yes, you might start to be the decoy marianne had this she was at the bottom in 42 and she built slowly through that and got into a good space and she was protected by her two crew members it's kind of like a similar thing that auntie has had and she got to build to that point without really putting herself out there and showing how close those

relations were i think that that sam was right to be like, okay, and knowing Andy probably won't go. However, I do think now you manage it. And Kevin Jacobs had a great article in the Confession this week, which is basically like it's all how you manage it. Sam needs to go to Andy and say basically what I just did. The odds of you going home incredibly low. It is a narrative we've put out together. I couldn't tell you at the time because you would freak out

and I didn't want to do that to you but I felt pretty pretty pretty good that we could blindside Roe who thought that he was completely controlling the vote so yes I did that and now we're even more covered and we're gonna strike when they least expect it he has to go to him immediately and show that even the conversation with Sol I think he could almost have his cake and eat it too because the name had already been put out there it's a he said he said soul's word against sam's that sam's saying like i want you know to work with you over andy i think that that's you know all fine for me and i think if anything if you try to protect andy at the merge feast then he could become the real target you know then then that actually becomes more pressing than rogues completely by himself so i thought that

was fine my biggest concern is the idol that rachel knows at least something about about that he was looking for it i guess that he had it um i'm not super sure what she knew but i know she knows more than andy did and she has a reason to out it and she could use it against sam that's my biggest verifiable information against what sam is doing but I actually thought handling his name being thrown out wasn't the worst thing for me personally do what do you think Marion again I spoke about it earlier on you know I think it and again Dina mentioned it it's all gonna it's all gonna have to do with the way that he manages this you know so he tells Sol to write down Andy's name great I'm forming a bond with Andy I'm sorry I'm forming

a bond with Sol um I know Andy's not going home um and I think just watching Sam you know in the first six episodes I think he'd be able to come back and manage it and, you know, solidify his bond with Andy. And it actually brings me back to like on myself and Dino's season with the Steffi vote. Dino managed that so well compared to like everyone else that came to me. And again, like people underestimate managing. Management is very important. You underestimate like the power of management. So again, Sam, you better be here.

Like at this point, he's my winner pick. And like, you know, I'm here for you. So I'm hoping that he's going to come back and just handle it really well. And that, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, you know, you have to put it on Sue. Sue's the one who puts the name down as well without self-preservation for Sol, who I know they bonded over being in their forties, but like she did just meet him yesterday. And yeah,

I would just do that and be like, they asked me at the feast. And did you want to be Mariah or would you want to be Venus? Because Venus made it pretty far in the game and could have made it further if she didn't like trip over her own feet so it behooves all of us that they think this narrative at a tiny tiny risk to you which unfortunately had to it was such a small risk we're now all in a better spot I think that has to be explained but I'd love to talk about Sue because I feel like Sue is doing so much she continues to be Lady Macbeth the out damn spot plot line that the out damn spot plot the out damn plot line no it doesn't work it's fine but that's how i always think about it

when this paint comes back um and the the really concerning thing is it was like in a secret scene last week gabe is looking for the idol he says no one's found it i'm like oh so she didn't tell gabe she didn't tell car. She didn't tell Caroline. Like to me, that would be kind of a little bit to the way I have wanted people to play in a kind of a social way. Like that would be kind of bad for me if she hadn't been already caught out

with the page saying she bit her tongue a couple of weeks ago. But considering she was caught out, not telling her allies is unforgivable to me. And like, maybe she's working with Caroline because Caroline's the best ally of all time who will see this and be okay with it and cover for her and she can read that and she knows she's got a great relationship and she has fostered that relationship and good for her

but there has to be some danger there so i don't know do you know how are you feeling about sue and everything that she's doing with the paint and everything that's going on with sue again i think incredibly difficult one to manage. Sue had two options when she was caught red-handed to, you know, just be like, hey guys, the two of you, I have found something. Please keep it a secret. But she really didn't have trust in Tiana. But can't you tell Caroline after?

Telling Caroline, yes, agreed with you there. And then that person can try to help you cover tracks and mitigate any sort of blowback, right? Now you get the situation where everybody's finding it. And again, I love the edit, just the zoom in on her face of concern of life. It was a great edit. Her life flashed before her eyes and it was incredibly clear on her face.

All 45 years of her life flashed before her eyes. Yeah, exactly. So I think it's all going to come down to Tiana. So I was more interested and I made a note of it and going like, I think Caroline handles this probably the best in the sense that she could very well go and run amok with this information to try by favor with a whole lot of people she doesn't know right but then everybody

has that information everybody benefits from it and then she loses somebody that she's got a close relationship with right she might elevate herself for like three and a half seconds in the game but she loses it now she's going like hey car, Sue, I know you've got this. We're good. I'm happy for you. Don't even stress, which is the right, in my mind, which is the right thing to do. Knowing that if it does come out, well, Tiana's the one that's spread it. It's never going to look like Caroline spread that information.

Not for a second. We know Sue's already suspicious, right? Not of Caroline. So Caroline sees all sorts of upsides. I think her play here was great. I think Sue is going to be outed, and I think that idol's going to get flushed relatively early on come actual merge, real merge. It is the merge so um so you know in the Rome school of doing too much I feel but I think for Caroline like you know she doesn't have to not

trust Sue even though Sue did this very weird thing I think you can be like Sue's a little weird you know like I don't think that it makes you I think like it doesn't make Sue a bad ally to her I think that Sue is a good ally to her. She could read into it like, wow, can I even trust Sue? Maybe I should use this against her. But I think she's invested so much in that relationship and it is a mostly good relationship. And while this is a very strange mistake for Sue to make to not tell her,

I think it speaks more to just kind of like the strangeness that she might have to work around and mitigate in having Sue as an ally. But I don't think it speaks to like Sue's loyalty for her and a genuine relationship that is important so she does kind of at that point have to vouch for her but I also think Sue gets lucky and and fostered the relationship well but gets lucky that Caroline will handle that with such grace and still put it first even though it does have some red flags as an alliance member

that they could play like this and not tell you about all of these things even when you caught them red-tongued so that that, I think, is strange. Marion, how do you feel about, yeah, Sue? She's lied about her age. She's lied about her job. She's lied about the paint. She's lying about the idol. She threw out the name that we saw.

Sue's doing a lot. How do you feel about everything? She's doing a lot. I must say, I really like Sue. I also like the fact that when she found the idol, she didn't, you know't run and tell everyone because that seems to be the new theme. You find something and you run and you tell everyone.

It's not a tribe idol. If I find the idol, I'm not going to tell anyone unless I need it as leverage. I don't generally think that Sue made the biggest mistake. Obviously, she was courted handed, so at that point... Yeah, at that point, you know, she was courted handed.

So at that point. Yeah, at that point, it's a bit of a tribe idol. Like at that point, maybe. Or maybe at that point, just confide in Caroline. Yeah. And just be like, you know, I did find this. I don't trust Tiana. And lock it in.

But again, I think Sue's very lucky that, you know, Caroline figures it out and she goes to him. She's like I'm happy for you good so I'm hoping that Caroline is not going to out Sue and I'm hoping that Tiana is just going to like forget about it probably not because it was a weird very long term storyline involving

red paint and now pottery like that's the kind of thing I think you think about when like that that's how I want to get rid of and just like in an alternate universe like Tiana forgets about it Sue's protected I look like Sue when I'm 57 because she really does look good for her age that woman is 45 Marion okay so that's actually insulting about what you said about it being Letitia and Sue played at around the same age so I would I'm gonna stop there yeah yeah yeah they both needed um the loved ones visit because we don't know how much time each of them have left as Kyle says you know if the good good lord wills it or whatever he said there'll be much time for a 45 year old which is a strange thing to say to a 45 year old anyway it's fine sorry you know

sorry i just just had a thought now after phrasing caroline i'm so sorry that i said sorry no i'm sorry i'm sorry it's contagious no i'm sorry that you're sorry that i'm sorry like don't even it's fine guys so there is a there's a potential risk and i don't know if you'd agree here Don't even, it's fine. Guys, it's silly. We know what our lives may be. So there's a potential risk, and I don't know if you'd agree here, that I'm just thinking of for Caroline. We've seen them come up as, oh, Sue and Caroline, they've got this relationship. Yes, that is bad. So now if people think that Sue has something,

they would assume Caroline knows something. They would assume Caroline knows something and Caroline becomes a potential target to split them up and flush something out. So it's not all well and dandy for Caroline. It's not all outside. I think she's handling it well, but I think

Sue's now there's an inherent risk that's kind of going over onto Caroline potentially. Yes, I think that the risk is she's tied herself to a player who I praised a lot at the beginning and now I'm increasingly concerned about you know, she's just doing a lot

and you're right that the same way that Genevieve was worried about Rome, Sue is doing a lot. I'm not calling her Roman, it's not to that extent. But it could bounce back and you 100 calling her romance not to that extent no no for sure it could bounce back and you 100 can be collateral to that and i think that's my concern for caroline it's not it's like you've invested in sue you are covering for sue and it's not about each of those individual decisions it's just by like now that you're learning that this is the kind of player that

sue is like don't you have alarm bells about how that might impact her and then you by association considering it's such a close association and i do think that is something she probably will have to worry about and so if you cross your mind so it's happened with um sue uh and potentially you know caroline and then rome and genevieve right there's been this eventual risk that your ally brings on to you and and then we go back to Rachel, the way, you know, Andy kind of reached out. And Rachel wasn't too keen to, like, build a full-on alliance with this guy. And it goes like, well, does it validate Rachel's decision at that point? Because this is the potential outcome of playing with somebody who's incredibly sloppy or messy

or not calling them all sloppy and messy. But I'm just saying, like, in a different way, Andy could have brought immense risk to any one of his, close allies game so does it like kind of bring a validation to that because absolutely like who you align with you know you're not just an alliance based on trust you you're there based on potential um perception and you know whatever we do we do and we've both got to like pay the price for it at some point. I completely agree with you. I just think that there are options beyond just like reject someone. And I don't know how much Rachel knew that Andy felt rejected and like go

all in on someone like Genevieve did with Rome, which we can talk about like Carolyn has done with Sue. Like it's unfortunate for Rachel that it didn't get across the line to the point where Andy then goes, like, if he's not an option for you, then it's best that he's like out the door. And i i think you know andy said in his like mid-game merge pre-merge um interview with dalton ross that like he'd already gone to sam saying we should work on something and sam and sierra really vouched for him so either not choosing to or not getting it done might be a bit of the issue at the point where that's a loose end or at least like placating that person

there has to be some middle ground between like you know rejecting someone being all this someone i think that might be it but i do think that that might be yeah that could be an issue for for caroline down the road like for sue like sue yeah is that the other name voting um writing andy unnecessarily i think here being that second vote and whether she's choosing to and really putting her hand up whether it's being put on her it's a divide that is unfortunate in a social game where that's possibly an option that's been cut out she herself has been so anti-Kyle because he wrote her name down now she's wrote down the name written down the name of someone who is still in the game in Andy so I just think there's some unnecessary divides that Sue is putting forward here I would

also love to talk about Kyleyle here interesting episode for kyle kyle who is a really trusting person um and to be honest like kyle said a lot of the stuff that rome said kyle was saying right so just to go through that scene because i watched it multiple times because the way that rome narrates it isn't true to what we're seeing so i just i know we've touched on it but i just want to like point out carl does say sam is the biggest threat rome takes that to salmon it's true that's what's narrated to us rome says what about tiana carl says that's fair i think i wouldn't have killed him to be like no tiana's been like at the bottom like we we work really you know well together like we should bring her in instead of being like that's fair but i don't know what else was said in that conversation i think he could have asked

for tiana but he from what we saw he certainly did not throw her name out. From what we know of their relationship, it would seem strange for him to do that. So that's where I'm at with it. Rome said that in confessional, he said that Carthra, Tiana, in exits, he is still saying Carthra, Tiana, again, the exits, you know, have to be had with sight of soul. And then he does say Caroline and Sue are a very close

mother-daughter relationship um he does say caroline's really bad at challenges rome tells us he also said that they were bad socially he goes to sue and says they're very close they did that that's what carl said and the challenge stuff and the social stuff so at the point where sue comes back to kyle and it's like you said all the stuff carl's like i just said you had a mother-daughter relationship that might be bad like mothers and daughters often are close. So what do you think, Marion, about like how you sit with Kyle's episode here? Because I feel like he gave a lot with Rome to bury him,

but then did very well in burying Rome on the bounce back. So how do you kind of feel about this conversation with Kyle and then how it kind of all exploded from there? So I have a note and I said that Kyle kyle handled rome throwing him under the bus with so much grace because you know he could have exploded and you know made a bigger fuss but he just he handled it so well and i think what was really great for him was at the merge feast um when they when they start talking about Rome, Kyle says, I don't like what he's doing to us.

He doesn't say like, I don't like what Rome is doing to me. He goes like, I don't like what Rome is doing to us. So he makes everyone feel like Rome is attacking everyone and he's like the poison in the tribe. And that word, me and us us I think made such a big difference and again it was so subtle and that's that the art of subtlety that that's now and we look for and it's so sincere because us everyone wants to be included you know Survivor's not a me game it's an us game so you always want to play up to that. And he did it in such a spectacular fashion.

And I watched that and I was like, you go, boy. So I think like that moment at the feast, he really put the nail in Rome's coffin. And I think he did it in such an incredible way. And again, he's such, he's just got such a nice guy, energy order. And I mean, I just, I love to love him like i i love kyle what do you think dino so yeah i've got huge praise for kyle for this episode um absolutely i mean you know uh rome fishes for a name of big threat he says sam cool defendable

um you could always give a different context if we don't see the sam blowback potentially or whatever yeah it's kind of in a montage of information and sam's like the middle part of the sandwich so we don't see him yeah to it but i mean you could easily defend them be like oh he asked me who do i think is going to be best challengesers, and I said you. Sorry, my bad. Although he's a non-liar and none of that is true. So the thing about Kyle, though, is that we know he's not the super fan of the game, right?

And I think the players know he's not the super fan of the game, and he refers to himself. He's like, everybody knows I'm the most honest idiot out here. So he's got that edge. I love how Andy was like, yes. Yes. Everyone knows I'm a stupid dumbass and andy's like i do think that is that you are speaking my language i agree with you yeah so it's great to manage his own threat level and his social game comes through and he is he becomes like super believable and

like in in the in the caroline uh sue suiting it's like yeah i do see you guys have a mother daughter relationship like he doesn't know the impact shame you can't be mad at him it wasn't And Sue thinks, yeah, I do see you guys have a mother-daughter relationship. He doesn't know the impact shame. You can't be mad at him. It wasn't malicious. The guy doesn't know the game. He doesn't know that everybody's going to be out for us because we have a mother-daughter relationship and that's the worst thing in the world that you can have in this game.

He can play anything down like he does. The Tiana thing is interesting because Tiana says, oh, my gut said something was wrong. That is my ally and i think when rome throws tiana's name out and he goes oh that's fair he's doing a great thing of managing threat not being seen as you know having a close ally yeah i don't think it's a bad thing that he goes that is the point i don't think it's a bad thing at all he goes yeah that's fair let let them lead the conversation and you just agree with the opinion

because it's their opinion and that's fine. It's like, yeah, he threw your name out. I just didn't rebut it. What must I do? Go and give him all my actual thoughts and go tell him how close you and I are and put a target on both of our backs. It ends well for neither of us. Now you might get information I don't and vice versa

because he doesn't think we're together. So I don't think he could have done much better in that situation particularly with the character that he had now if it was sol on the other hand who's a believable guy i mean so i wouldn't go around doing it not necessarily the way the way rome's done but like then it's going to be harder to defend because now you've got two believable characters and it's like well who's telling the truth so huge place for kyle i mean he doesn't have a vote he doesn't have blackness power um he goes out and gets himself an immunity necklace which i don't think he needs but he keeps it off the table for his number one target which is great um and yeah without his vote he's still

well looped in uh people are rallying to like protect him they consulting him they're not just making assumptions they're actually asking him about the situation he's able to defend it and people are believing him so that speaks to not just how he handled that situation but to the relationships that he's built up and the perception um that players have of him and his awareness of the perception that players have of him which I think speaks to like who he really actually is he's just being himself which is this really nice guy yeah I mean if I had to criticize one thing from him in this episode like I think he's he was reading Rome wrong like he was too trusting of Rome like I think all of that is fine and you're right like you can kind of cover for Sam is a threat yeah like I think

that did come through because even when he hears about it he's like we had a really good conversation like what and to his credit to be fair to him most people would think like yeah why would rome go and turn it around on everyone about you when you had a positive conversation that you could build into a relationship and possibly an alliance like nine people out of ten wouldn't do that but that tenth person is rome so maybe he was trying to build something really positively and socially but he was reading reading Rome wrong. And Rome is a very difficult language to read, right? So that part is difficult. But I do think that there was a trustiness that he gave, as much as you can say, okay, like, you know, he can cover for a lot of the information. Most of it is fine. He still gave him a concrete name in Sam. He did give a lot on Sue and Caroline, who he has been against.

That stuff could have been used against him and he's lucky that Rome is so untrustworthy and maybe he knows parts of that and knows that he'd kind of win that. He said he said. But he is lucky that Rome will take too much information and make all his information bad like he did last week with Genevieve like he's doing here because he

could have taken, as we said before, Rome could have taken the one pathway to just go to Sue who already has like a bean herb on it about Carl. And if Rome had played it better, he might have done that. And it might have gone badly for Carl, where Sue does have a confessional of like, now I want Carl out. So I think he just gave him a bit much. But then at the point where he hears about it,

first he has a relationship with Tiana, where she's going to put the information in motion so he can get it back. He is going to win immunity. He is going to put the vote onto Rome really well he is going to cover well he's like I'm the most honest guy out here and he did lie at least by omission about the things that he said to Rome so I think that he did pretty well and that he ended up being believed like he covered very well but I do think he did give Rome some ammo I think without expecting Rome to play it how he did and just like that lack of awareness was just a little bit of a bug. But has Rome done him a huge favor?

Because, yeah, there was a bit of naivety, maybe surviving naivety in what he thought was just an open, honest conversation where you're building a relationship, you're building an alliance with somebody, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maybe he was a bit too forthcoming. But has Rome inadvertently taught Kyle a valuable lesson at a key part of the game no but where Kyle might start going like okay cool this is what's happened this information comes back and gets used against me and then he's a bit more careful with everything

it's just a nice chat yeah so so like it could be if Kyle uses in that way it could be a valuable lesson that he hasn't had to pay the price for that. Hopefully if he's an astute or becoming an astute player, he'll be able to use that lesson down the line and not fall into the same trap at later stage in the game. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. I mean, and I hope it's just reading because like Rome felt terrible about Kyle, like Rome said in exits that Carl said something beyond the game.

We don't know what it was. I don't want to dismiss Rome's reality. I also like have to point out that again, like many things that Rome said in the exit interview were hard to verify against other things that we know. So we have to kind of like hear it, but then also like be having the salt. So it's tough. But yeah, Rome came away like wanting to bury Carl

and Carl came away being like what a lovely conversation that part is a little concerning for me maybe he'll just be a little bit more aware of how people might act erratic or against how he'd expect and just be more prepared for it and I think that that would be good um yeah so who have we not really spoken about I'd love to hear more about Rachel do you know you have the pre-game friendship with Rachel um anything about like how Rachel is doing here Rachel is one of the most divine human beings you will ever meet it means nothing coming from you I do like Rachel so much and I don't just believe you I'm just saying that it it's completely irrelevant no but really isn't. You don't have a bad word to say about another human being.

Oh, no, I do. I do. I do. Do you want to tell us who? It's fine. You don't have to do that. Sorry, Mary, your marks are breaking up there. Do you know there'd be a Dino-shaped hole through the door

if you had to talk about it? No, so Rachel, I oh no she's she's awesome right and and and it just it shows how quickly she's you know made friends i'm just saying outside of this you know in terms of i'm i'm sporting my out bluff uh oh i thought what is that you showed the buff and i was like that isn't the gutter buff i don't want to say that what is that what is that buff those who don't know but I mean she's made she made friends very quickly

well before what is that buff that's from your it's outflush yeah so what is that the the the the friendship group that you have

the survivor poker crew that he's also like playing for her that he referenced yes the cult the cult yeah don't come for us

we're like the mafia no I'm kidding Don is the Don Don is the Don. Don is the Don. No, anyway. Yeah, I probably would believe it more from him. Yeah. No, anyway.

No, so you can see because she and Derek are just both, like, really down-to-earth, genuine humans, good friends, and you can see the way she builds relationships in the real world and how she approaches people, and she's got an incredible patience. And I think that's shown in the game. And she hasn't been this standout character that's freaking run amok and got a thousand confessionals. But sometimes playing a game that's good for the camera

is not a good winning game. Oftentimes it's not. And your good players are able to fly a bit more under the radar. The downside is that not everything you do is shown. The reality is she got heavily blindsided in the previous week, which is scary to watch. But as a friend, I'm glad she got that experience but still got to live to see another day.

So it's cool. It's all a part of the Survivor experience. You've got to be blindsided in some parts. If you weren't blindsided or part of asided even play survivor kind of thing um so i think she's done done really well to to keep her head she's done well in the challenges nobody nobody's like seen her as uh weak and i know going into the game that was one of her concerns was just a bit of the physical side of things she is absolutely and i'm so proud of this she has absolutely smashed puzzles along the way um dude i've like and and this puzzle sucks make an appearance every now and again it makes my heart

absolutely smile so i'm like uh i'm very very proud so overall i've i've been i've really loved watching her i do worry for her her position at this stage because now it's unclear and and just for the record i am unspoiled on the season um and purposely so um I want to be able to enjoy the season for what it's worth and sweat bullets the way you know the way you should um so I am a bit worried about her position coming into this now where it's like okay cool your closest ally is gone that could be a blessing and a curse um the other people that you thought you were close with are closer with somebody else. That person is now potentially turning.

There's shots being fired in and amongst, in the preview, in and amongst the tribe you're originally with. Where does she fit in? So there's a bit of a concern. I don't see her building, you know, immense cross-trival relationships yet, but that might still become. So yeah, I mean, she's had a journey

and I am somewhat concerned, but still optimistic. I i mean she's had a journey and i i am somewhat concerned but still optimistic i think overall she's done really well that's my my four minute take sorry no i love it i mean you are literally friends with her we love the take um marion do you have do you want to talk about yeah because i'd love to talk about that rachel um and sierra like kind of he's got a woman i have a rant rant that I want to get to for Sierra. Yeah, how do you feel about like their place in the game? I think Rachel's in a pretty good place. I'm not worried about her.

You know, in the preview we see maybe an all-woman alliance forming, but I think that Rachel, like Dino said, she's been very subtle. You know, she hasn't made like these big elaborate moves. But again, like we all for the smarter moves. And I think Rachel's in a good position. And I don't see her going home anytime soon. And if she's smart, like form an all-girls alliance, you know, if they can pull that off, that's great. former all girls alliance you know um if they can pull that off that's great um Sierra I'm not sure if she would you know break break away from Sam just yet or if ever um so yeah yeah well I

want to talk about that oh sorry you yeah no Yeah. No, no, no. I just think like, currently I think like Rachel's a lot more safe than Sierra is. Well, Sierra has the target. But I do want to talk about it with Sierra because now that we're hearing like All Girls Alliance, I mean, look, the second they say All Girls Alliance,

it will not work, right? Let's always check off All Girls Alliance. If they mention it in the first act, it'll be over by the third act. It's just a fact of life. But I want to talk about it because I am concerned and I you know I was on the um the post-game show right after the episode last week

so it hadn't manifested as much although I should have known that it would um that Sierra was getting harassment and death threats and attacked and even the people who weren't attacking her to her face like the criticisms I was seeing on Twitter about like she voted out a woman um it's just it's just my absolute pet peeve in life and like i'm sorry to do this a week late but i just want to speak to it especially seeing talk of an old girls alliance because if it doesn't work out whoever steps out of line whatever woman doesn't do that will get hated on by people got mad when i said it but it's true because i've had similar misogyny happening to me by largely men who wish to control and own women and what it is is it's when women

don't do what men want but you're still cent women and what it is is it's when women don't do what men want but you're still centering yourself like how is it that you think feminism is attacking a woman for having agency in a game and bettering her own game or even if she doesn't but she's still having that choice right and playing her own game and I do think that often men and it's particularly infuriating when men do it seek to have ownership over women's agency and think that they're being a feminist by being like, you voted out a woman and attacking and harassing her speaks for itself. But even just criticizing that as her being not a feminist or her being sexist while you criticize a woman for not doing what you want, especially as a man, has just at this point progressed past leaf blowers

as my number one pet peeve. If I went on Survivor and that was what I had to put in my bio, my pet peeves, it would just be number one. So I just want to say it before the woman's alliance happens it'd be great if it happens and if one woman thinks she has a better alliance with sam for sierra or she has a better option there and even if that option isn't as good and we can criticize it from a game perspective please do not come for her as a woman for making a choice because the best way to be feminist on survivor to empower women is to be a woman playing well to get you to the win that's feminism to have choices and control and i hate when people attack of course but even just criticize women on that basis and that is the rant that i've just had in me for a week i feel better i feel a little yeah

great to think about she got death threats. She could only take it to a 2-2. Even at worst, she was not even the swing vote. Sam had the leverage with the idol in their relationship. And then be at risk of going home anyway. And even on

that, it just shows how it has no logic, because Anika didn't even have a vote. And even again, if she had chosen on the 3-2, it had been a pure swing. Even then, obviously, I would have been tearing my hair out. But the fact that it even happened where she had to have taken Sam across and he had the leverage

and people wanted to go to the 2-2, that's feminism, right? Risking rocks is feminism. That's what I've learned. So, okay. I'm sorry. I needed to. Yeah.

And I'm apologizing as well. i i'm sorry for saying sorry no it needed to be said and yes fair fair play the irony of yeah yeah marion you've got a lot of hate for being a woman on television yeah you know i think um something that's been heavy on my heart i think for like the past i don't know how many couple of years, is that like, I hate like the toxicity that the survivor fandom sometimes brings. And it's not all of them, but there's so much of them. And it's again, you don't have to like everyone. But if you have nothing nice to say, it's just so much easier to shut up. Again, we're not saying be a fan of everybody.

You know, you can hate me, but you can also not say anything about it. Because at the end of the day, like, I'm a human being. Sia is a human being. You know, we're not survival players. Like, we have our own lives. You know, we come back and we have our own reality and our own family and I think like for me there's nothing more like irritating and annoying and frustrating than like the toxicity within the fandom and like how they will like personally

attack you or give you death threats or like throw you under the bus. And I think this is also has a lot to do with me not wanting to come on podcast because people are so mean. And me generally, like I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna call you out and I'm gonna say it. And like, if you were toxic fan listening to this, just stop. Well, they're not, it's not, it's not actually, it's not these listeners, these listeners, unless you're here. I know, but you know, the trolls, believe believe me the trolls are also here they're everywhere you know they do they do they don't listen to this it's so weird they hate listening to it but they're listening to it just stop if you have nothing nice to say

don't say anything I mean you're not gonna love everyone on a cost but like these are people with lives you know um last season i forget the name someone also got death threats you know everyone got yeah it was i mean they were kind of sending death threats to each other this year just just on this one very specific brand of hate and sexism, just on the one little tiny streamline of sexism, was Caroline, Maria, woman voting out another woman because it benefits their game, or they think it benefits their game, has happened so many times this year.

I know it's boring and I know I've broken record. I've had this rant so many times, and yet I still feel the need to do it. And yeah, it's not even for our listeners, because I know that 99% who aren't hate listening are the good ones. But you should call people out. that's what I wanted to say if you have the bandwidth to get into it with people you see a man especially being like she hates women she voted out a woman tell them they're a misogynist tell them that they're not a feminist that's important to me at the end of the day whether you're a woman or a man like like you know Dino voting out full like no one came for Dino me voting out middle

everyone comes for me you know like you in Survivor you need to do what's best for you so if Sieta doesn't want to be part of you know an all girls alliance and she feels like going with Sam's gonna be better for a game so number one ally yeah that'd be number one I like then go for it you know again if you're gonna you know my only like my survivor dream is just like I need a Black Widow 2.0 Black Widow be great 2.0 like I'm I'm waiting for it I've been waiting for it for almost 20 years so you know that's my biggest dream in life but if Seattle feels that to get to the end she has to stick with the number one alliance like let her be yeah I think about this often in like the way that the,

it's not just the survivor fandom and the way that internet hate is and manifests in all the fandoms. It's like, it's the worst it's ever been generally. Like obviously there are like specific events, but like generally it's the worst it's ever been. And it's also the best it'll ever be. We're only going down a pathway of more toxicity as more people are online,

as more people become uninhib are online as more people become uninhibited as more people feel like they have access to these players and feel entitled to that like i really just think it's like the the the graph is like it's just devolving in a very straight line um and i do think like you know when i was talking before the podcast truly about how great so many of the fans are like i think that like the best thing you can do is just like be the light in the fandom and be like like you know the the light that drowns out a lot of the darkness because there's so much hate and stuff and i think just like being really positive and like going out of your way to be like nice to players or you know if you see like oh i'm really upset that

sierra voted out anika instead of doing that like votes and something really nice to anika like being that like and a lot of people are already doing that but i think that's just the antidote to like a rapidly escalating Problem that's already terrible and will Truly only get worse from here Also for me like coming on podcasts It's kind of hard because like Speaking about

Like not criticizing someone else's game but like You know breaking it apart and talking about It it's like I've been on The island twice I know how hard it is I know that we don't get shown everything I know that like we could be having this to our podcast but everything we say could not have happened at all we could all be wrong so it's hard for me you know to speak about someone and I'm always trying to be respectful even with Romy was so patronizing but I'm like

to be respectful, even with Romy, was so patronising, but I'm like, surely this isn't you in real life. You built this narrative of how you think survivors should be. I know, it's such an important point. Yeah, internet.

Marion will be back. Yeah, what do you think, Dino? The point that Marion's raising is, it is incredibly tough coming on to a podcast and criticizing other players' games when you know how tough it is to play the game when you don't have the information, when everything isn't so obvious, you know. It really isn't.

When you're playing that game, you don't have the information that we have at home. We have a lot more information than the players do in the game, you know. So I desperately feel this point of Marion. So, like, if you are a player listen to the podcast and we've criticized your game here it comes sorry yeah we're well aware that we're doing it from a point of you know watching it back and it's just some views and don't take it personally and it doesn't invalidate the experience at all i mean what, it's tough as players to come back and there's awesome parts of your journey that don't get shown

or parts that you think you did well that don't get shown. So that can be challenging, but it doesn't take away the fact that you've played Survivor, you've lived out this dream. It's an incredible achievement just to get on the show, never mind actually play it and live it out. So, yeah, anyway we we've taken this down before the internet the patriarchal internet try to take down the important point

sorry what was i saying shannon was just telling me how everyone's complained that she's got a male co-host and that she had to bring you on this podcast because her bringing a male a male guest on only was going to just bring immense hate so you had to balance it no i'm kidding yeah yeah the only reason we'd want marion on this podcast of course yeah your strategic prowess yeah man i just can people just not be so hateful? Yeah. Like in South Africa, we say, can you just be lecker? Like, just be nice. If you have nothing nice to say, shut up. That's it. Point blank period.

I really hate that I'm going to have to have this rant again so soon. Who knows for what reason? Like definitely for the, for the like, you voted out a woman thing. I'm still going to give up. Yeah. Like after 47 seasons and like how many Australian seasons and South African seasons and New Zealand and and and like do people

not realize that like we are people we go on a reality show we play a game for a million dollars or two million rand or a million rand like I mean are you really telling me that you're going to get on an island and just

sit there and be kumbaya and not fight and compete for a million dollars you know and no but you can only vote for keep with the women all right if you're a woman you have to put the course before your own game because playing with that extra burden and making it more difficult for yourself is feminism aren't you keeping up with what feminism is, Marion? It's so annoying, guys, for the millionth time. How you play Survivor, it's not really a true reflection of yourself. Yes, sometimes it is, but also there's like your favorites who, if you knew of their story, you would, you know? It's annoying.

Let's just change the subject. I had a couple more people that i want to talk about before we get to the chibi we haven't spoken about as much um teeny and also with that amulet yeah they chose to um they chose the amulet which was an interesting choice um really speak this is the improved amulet and they were still like don't want it as andy said it was basically a way to keep their votes they play it on teeny um teeny was the one who gave up their vote so that i think makes sense um and it's probably something that they you know discussed because they said they discussed telling everyone they probably discussed we'll just play it

immediately probably on teeny um so like and they probably told everyone when they when they told them we have the amulet but like we're just going to burn it instantly um which kind of makes teeny's decision not to tell soul even more confusing for me like it wasn't something they were really going to be relying on and whether people buy that or not is another thing but that was an interesting way to go about it what did you think dino about the the way that they chose to just burn the amulet well luckily we don't need any um inside chair i mean you can just go back to rome sitting in jeff's uh seat and explain to everyone why it's why it's

the right move right yeah that's my job to talk to rome save it for the on fire podcast there we go um yeah i mean she's it's it's a double-edged sword it's you know so many people know about it and even if you didn't tell people, people were going to find out that you had a portion of it. And if you are successful in getting one of the other people out and it's now more powerful or more useful to you or whatever, you only become a bigger target for a longer period of time. So I say burn it.

Build the relationships, give people the information, build the trust, and burn it instantly. And yeah, give people the information, build the trust and burn it instantly. So, and yeah, Teenie gave up the vote. Fair play. Nobody else was at risk. Well, Andy was getting those votes. I think that's the one thing where it's like Teenie and Caroline should just act like they did not.

Those votes were going on Andy because then it might look like, wow, you didn't care that I was getting any other votes. Although to be fair, at the point where they're playing it. Then you burn Sol. Again, it speaks to that. Yeah, and then Teenie's close to Sol has had an up-and-down relationship with Sol. I think that's difficult, but I will say at the point

where they're playing the amulet, Rome hasn't said he's using his shot in the dark. He hasn't used an idol to this point. So that would be different. If Rome's not up and played an idol and you allowed the amulet to be played on Teenie, knowing Andy was getting the votes, at that point it would be different like if rome still haven't played an idol and you allowed the amulet to be played on teeny knowing andy was getting the votes at that point it would be different but we're very far away from that happening so it should be coverable hopefully again but then andy goes home so then andy goes home it's true then andy's out of the game

except for maybe the god of people but i mean no yeah you're right and they're part of that yeah so there's no thought out there yeah i mean so you know that andy's gonna get votes you know that you didn't play the idol on him but again you know that it was so unlikely that he was going home um that the that there wouldn't be a bounce back there's nothing else that's been played seems pretty okay but yeah i mean if you're andy you might be upset and be like wow you really let this like wasted amulet go on teeny who was never never getting votes. I was getting votes. Did you know I was getting votes?

Like there might be some conversations around that, even in the intense safety that Andy had. And that's why, again, it'd be like, I didn't know that Sol was putting one vote on you. That one defensive self-preservation vote from Sol, so easy to cover. At the point where it's a tribe thing, at the point where Sue is randomly doing it too,

now Caroline, now all of us are probably answering to what the group is doing. So that probably speaks to why it wouldn't have done the two votes. But what did you think, Marion, about this as a move? Honestly, I'm not going to lie. I'm still confused like why they chose to play it on Tini. I guess it's safe.

Just burn it. But yeah, I actually, going into tribal, I thought they were going to play it for soul But then like after watching the episode I'm like okay, that would have been too risky So yeah, like The three person Amulet, it doesn't make sense to me In general

And again like An advantage Can only get you so far in the game It's really about like relationships and connections so um i think they did the correct thing in just burning it my question for you marion is how do you feel if you're in andy's position now you know you've gotten two votes to what shannon was saying um even though you were dead safe everyone knew you were dead safe and you're going well what's the harm in having played it on me if you knew I was getting votes? If you're really on my side, that

extra protection would have gone a long way. From Andy's perspective, nobody else's, how do you feel as Andy about the two of them? I would have probably been pissed off, but what if the three people that have the amulets just go to Andy and say like we never heard your name so therefore we didn't play it yeah but then again you have to cover for that and then again like it's the intricacies of oh so you never heard Andy's name so then what did you think was happening oh you thought Sol was going oh you're okay with me going like there's

a web here but I do think like Andy is not entitled to that amulet like he has a third of it teeny gave up their vote teeny's ally went home teeny was going to tribal that night like teeny is the one who did it like they did it to save their votes they're not trying for the amulet so like that might be upsetting but i mean like i don't really feel like it was andy's decision to make like teeny is the one and i'm sure that they made that decision at the time for teeny and teeny was Tini was tipsy half the episode. So whether he was in the right mind. I don't know, I was drunk. Why are you late on me?

It's like, I have the worst hangover and I can't get into this right now. Truly, I didn't know what was going on. What did we do? We played the amulet? No, what did we do? Tini had moments where, when they were drinking wine, I just thought to myself this is a lovable drink

this is your friend when you go out for a night they just get more and more and more lovable as they drink you know and just

hello girl so much we have soul survivor we literally soul survivor so much because it's literally this is it wait why did you do that I was so drunk

I don't even know what the hell you also down that wine like I mean if you I think there should be more alcohol in Survivor personally drunk I don't even know what I educate more also she downed that wine like I mean if you I think there should be more alcohol

in Survivor personally no 100% also you get so drunk from like one beer one glass like she was

literally downing it yeah exactly when you come to South Africa you're more than welcome to come wine tasting

with me and Dina's wife Kirsten okay okay yeah it is Amanda and it is you didn't get the invite either it's an all girls alliance dino kirsten's included oh so in other words none of you will pitch and i'll be there oh my god anyway yeah no this was this was pretty good i thought yeah it's it's either a bounty or a difficult thing for the three of them to use so it makes sense and then the last person i wanted to talk about

was genevieve um we talked about like so i said last week the scales be tipping i was all in on the on the move to take our kishan i thought it had agency i thought it preserved a good alliance and like multiple good individual alliances for Genevieve. And then last week I was like, now like Rome was even worse to Rome was worse to her than I think me or Genevieve expected. He threw her under the bus. He became unworkable. And this week that goes to its conclusion where they all have to get rid of

Rome. Like preserving him was so much even worse than we could have, I think possibly imagined, or maybe you'd say she should have read that and she should have known that or she should have managed it better. And I think to me now, having seen the scales tip to the point of him being unworkable to going home in this fashion, I think the scales maybe tip into the point where now I'm like, I said 60-40 on her doing it, on voting out Kishan.

I think I probably went to about 50-50 or maybe even 40-60 last week. I think the scales have tipped to I don't know I don't think to me that was the move um given how unworkable Rome ended up being I it was cool as hell Genevieve is amazing she seems really social like she can build now socially because of who she seems to be but the basis point I think is worse because now I think I'm like I still think I have given her the three chizzy points because interesting options abounded and it was just so well done and I'm not I don't like hate it but I don't know that I like it anymore of her keeping Rome like how can I how can I say that given the way that it's gone for Rome um and her do what do you think Marion do

do Genevieve um having to break from Rome after putting so much into Rome? How do you see her move and where she sits now? I think in the previous episode where, you know, Rome gives her the information that, like, she's the backup name. He did it in such a way, like, if you hear your name on Survivor, like, when someone comes to you, even if you're the backup name, you know you you know you got the votes down but you're like oh my god they're voting out Marion there is nothing scarier in this world like I can't explain it so you know I can kind of understand why

Genevieve then chose to take Kishan out she's like oh my god he's like is he really throwing my name at the device? Is this true? I get it. I hated the fact that she went with Roman. She voted Kishan out. I would have loved to see more of him. I think that he had so much game left in him. But I do like Genevieve and I do think she's got enough like social

and strategic capability to like weave herself through this merge um and one thing I got a note and I said like um you know when they were looking for like that sorry I'm going off point but when they were looking for like the merge advantage and herself and Sam are like on the cliff and she sees the the buoy and Sam goes like no it's nothing I actually thought Sam was gonna run back and find it and he just chilled like she went back and she trusted a gut and like there's few things more important in Survivor than like trusting your gut and your intuition and I think like if she's gonna

keep trusting a gut she's gonna do very well in this game and I just feel like she's she just reminds me of an old school player she's like a little bit of poverty I've said it before a little bit of Kim Spalding and so much Genevieve and um I really I'd like to see her go far yeah I think the hard thing with like Kishan throwing out her name is like that was unfortunate and it did speak to how she was like a second priority team over Tini and there was like some gap there where he wouldn't fully protect her but then what Rome did the next episode was so much worse you know where he like fully threw her under the bus to Saul and he and it could be even worse you know like that could

be the tip of the iceberg for Rome so I think it was like she went out of her way because that was so unforgivable with Kishan she did this awesome move and flipped everything around and kind of severed other relationships possibly that she's had to build back with like a teeny as an example to get rid of Keyshawn because that was such a scary action that he'd done. And then Rome, even though she was his first priority, like it showed that she was Keyshawn's second priority, but with like a first priority, like Rome has for you, who needs enemies? Like even her being his number one ally, it was so bad.

Like I'd rather be Keyshawn's number two than rome's number one because we've seen that with him what do you think you know where do you sit on on the genevieve move that i'm still analyzing two weeks later so i think like we she did what she needed to do with information she had at that point in time and that's when it needs to be judged right um it's same as poker right you can go into hand and you have, you know, two outs with two cards to, or you can have like tons of outs. Let's say you've got 20 outs, two cards to play,

and it's, you know, 40% odds of hitting and you make a decision based on those 40% odds and you don't hit or you do hit, whatever. You've made that decision at that point in time and then the game plays out and it might be an element of luck. If you do that a hundred times um you end up being more profitable not in the case of 40 i've used a bad example but the principle is the same right um and that's what it should be judged on not necessarily oh did that work out or not because you might have made a good

decision that still has a bad outcome if if that makes sense, right? So I look at it this way. At that point in time, you've got Tini and Kishan, who are tight too, and you're not breaking that. With the Kishan in the driver's seat, which was a major concern for her, right? Then you've got Sol, who's a bit of a free agent. And then you've got Rome, who was, to a point really loyal to to Genevieve so you take out Kishan you've broken up that that tattoo going further into the game and you're maintaining what you thought was a loyal ally to you who's openly shared information

with you right yes he ends up throwing you under the bus but that's not also the worst thing because now she's she's actively saved Sol where she can build a relationship with soul um teeny has lost her her number one or their number one so you've um broken up a potentially tight duo and you don't have a visible number one ally at this point in the game where people are looking at okay cool where the power structures um a dangerous player isn't as dangerous as a dangerous two or three. And the further you get down the line, the more powerful that two or three becomes because more of the vote they make up. So I don't think Genevieve hurt her position by doing what she did.

And her skill level shows that it actually didn't matter which route she went. She was going to make the best out of that outcome anyway, as she has done. And that speaks to more like the gifted player that she is is that she can make that decision and even though Rome did turn on

her she still got the favorable outcome Rome's gone she's still in a good position so I wouldn't I'm happy to kind of park that one and move on you've obviously quite hung up on that we'll talk about it next week here on Deadly History Podcast I'm not worried for her Emelson I'm worried you've obviously quite hung up we'll talk about it next week here on Deadly Series Podcast yeah

I'm not worried for her yeah I'm also not worried for her I think she's phenomenal man she's really

I can see I'm fine she's great yeah I'm not worried for her but I think that she

because she has the skills like it could just be she's in a slightly better spot but then

like yeah I mean the whole game would be different it's weeks it's been weeks okay anyway if you're seen as if let's say you're in a better spot now and you've got well uh you've saved rome you're in a tight three with kishan and and teeny so now you've got this like perception of a tight four yeah um all of a sudden it's like hey well okay which which one are we going for then? Sorry, guys.

That is a very, very powerful structure there that we should dismantle. You know, and who are we going for? Yeah, that is true. It's crazy that, I mean, that's not the intention that she has. She's not like, we'll be too big of a threat. That's not how we heard about it. If that was something she was thinking about,

I do think it's valid. But I mean, yeah, she chose to keep Roam in the game. I think my issue is that it was just based on her thinking she could control Roe and then not being able to so there's a little bit of a failure there but I still think she rebounds okay I mean Roe last week threw her under the bus to Sol to work with him and then this week was right on getting Sol out like that's the level of whiplash that we're at so it's very very tough um you mentioned I want to talk about a couple couple of these um production decisions you mentioned the advantage um what did you think about that Marion as these production decisions. You mentioned the advantage.

What did you think about that, Marion, as a twist that they get on the beach and it's like, go find the thing? And how did you feel about that and how everyone kind of reacted to that? It was weird that, like, everyone didn't look. Like, I mean, they looked and then they gave up. And I think Rachel says at Tribal Council, like they didn't want to disappoint Jeff, but they also didn't really look. And again, props to Genevieve for trusting a gut, you know. I guess the twist was kind of cool.

I mean, that challenge looked very daunting. And like, if I had the advantage and I had the choice to sit out the challenge and watch everyone do it. She stayed clean, which was great. Yeah. Yeah. She got food. I don't think they even realized how big that advantage would be i mean she was yeah um what did you think about it dino um conceptually quite good um but i think the production doesn't get what they want out of it because it says advantage in the next challenge i think if they say advantage in the game there's a far bigger dilemma that players face right for a number of reasons i'm glad it's not an advantage in the game necessarily am i i don't know yeah

because i don't like randomly just i don't like the randomness of just going out and randomly finding you know but anyway um maybe it could be, you know, a box within a box within a box. Who knows if that's ever been done before. But I think as a concept to try and split the players up, to give them that dilemma of do I stay here at this critical time where I need to build relationships? And particularly when the game is so short now,

you've got far less time to build those relationships. So you're sacrificing a lot time to build those relationships um so you're sacrificing a lot more to go out for something that might just give you an advantage in one challenge which you know the relationships are going to keep you safer for longer than what the upside of one challenge is going to keep uh give to you um and the likelihood is everybody's going to know that you've got this thing anyway because it's an advantage at the challenge so the i don't think the reward um balances the the risk in this case um i do think if it's if it's bigger it creates a far better dilemma and it you know it gets that like well now i've got to do this but i'm going to do it in a sneaky way and i've got to conceal it because everybody knows there is something and

somebody's going to find it and we've got to conceal it i mean this would have been a great time for the red paint you know um because then you've got like a full time to clear your, you know, clean your tracks. I mean, Sue, even with a lot of time, did not deal with that well. She has not solved the paint situation. It's like in this paint, I don't know. So, yeah, I like it conceptually, but I don't think it has the impact because of the weighting of it.

Yeah. I mean, look, it was a huge advantage. They just couldn't tell them because then they would have spoiled that Murgatory was different and now it's just an immunity challenge. But I think that they could define the dilemma a little bit more because Jeff seemed surprised that they weren't going for it. I mean, that was the most interesting part to me is what would people choose? Would you choose to socialize if there's like key, I'm meeting you time, or would you choose to run around, possibly put a target on yourself as the kind of player that you are and try to find an advantage in the challenge? He seemed surprised that people might take one choice. No,

like the choice is what's fascinating here. So I would just define that dilemma, be like, you have an hour. Here's the hourglass. This is how we bring back the hourglass. This is the hourglass. And if not, then no one gets it. Or there's a small little picnic. Do you want to socialize? Like really define that dilemma of like social versus um the hunt which is something like australian survivor did in bigger terms earlier this season that i really liked and i just would have done that there was a lot of um you know interesting stuff here from production

the schoolyard pic um that we got in a secret scene it is in a secret scene um this week if you haven't seen it um yeah they're like we're going to do a schoolyard pick and then they didn't show it jeff said on the afire podcast he was like there was just so much vote stuff and like it didn't doesn't feel that way although we have been here for two hours so maybe there was more strategic stuff but like i don't know for me there was so much fun well like it was just so what you think that they should have no i think no no i don't think they should. I would have loved to have seen them squeeze that,

that schoolyard pick in somewhere, right? It was a four minute scene. So yeah. Yeah. That includes some confessionals about it, right? And how people felt. Yeah, we can cut to those confessionals. This is a schoolyard pick. We get it. Move on. And we can include some of the confessionals in the secret scene perhaps, right? But maybe it's not so big on the story later on but i think what i suspect is that they they took

a really fun approach to the edits and the dunking on the room the dunking here and whatnot and they would have had to leave out some of that fun um which you know if if i had to have the trade off i'm going give me the fun it's refreshing i. I like it. So, you know, forgive me. No, because the secret third option, you keep in the Rome dunking, you keep in the schoolyard pick, and you cut the challenge. There was so much challenge. It was too much. There was a lot of challenge.

I will give you that. You could definitely take three minutes out of that challenge. Nice challenge, though. Nice challenge. It was fine. But, like, it was 30 minutes. Peter fell asleep. Okay. So that's how

that's my metric. What did you think Married about the schoolyard pick and the lack of seeing it? I actually have a note for Jeff. Oh. Get ready. So I mean it's the first time we knew I mean when last did we have a schoolyard pick so you bring

something back and we're all excited for it and then we don't get to see it I was like am I watching survival or am I watching the anonymous because like who's the captains who chose who like way above my head and it's also such an interesting dynamic to see like who the captains were and who the first picks were and like I was just like Jeff why would you bring something old school back and then just take it away from us that's rude yeah so um yeah I would have loved to see the the schoolyard pick um well I think it's a secret scene okay there's a secret scene but I think like it should have been in the episode yeah especially because it was good content there was Andy gets picked last so he has a lot of that story like telling about

like feeling like he's in middle school um it's also an interesting schoolyard pick because again there's those social dynamics there's like the physical dynamics there's the fact that like they can see both challenges right so you know who you're gonna be working with even get the reward and to get to play immunity with but then you're going to compete against them in the immunity challenge so if i'm looking at some of the like smaller women i'm looking at like wow they're not going to help me on the like big lift and then i'm going to compete against them in this balance challenge i would assume they're going to beat me but you would think andy would go earlier from that perspective like he has brute strength and then probably you would think like someone who keeps falling off hammocks and boats

is not going to win the immunity challenge so there was an interesting kind of dynamic there um which we missed because it wasn't in the episode but i do agree all of the fun editing stuff um with rome and the previously on and him sitting in jeff's chair like some people think it's you know sacrilegious to to kind of start messing with it but i'm like we're 24 years in i always love the meta editing quirks i'm a big like scrubs and community fan that stuff really works for me and I thought yeah that stuff was really fun they made the most of this big character that they had in Rome for his final swan song and I think they did that very well I wouldn't have lost any of it I just would have um cut so much of the challenge

if I could so that's where I'm at with it. Do we have anything else? Not the part where Gabe throws his buff down in anger because the one person that's getting constant content throughout, which I find interesting from their perspective, is Gabe. He's a great narrator. He's trying to put on this really chill, chill vibe, but there's these moments of frustration that boil over, which I find quite interesting. when the pressure's on,

like they're, they're in that, uh, in the maze, which in my opinion, they were approaching in the incorrect way. And Saul was correct in how I believe from a skill perspective should be, be approached,

right. Um, he lashes out and then, um, at the end of the, the challenge, you see him throw his buff on the ground. Um,

I'd say in disappointment, but there was this frustration and aggression. And then he very quickly de-escalates and then hugs the group and an ant. So he does very, very well to do that. But it was interesting to see that moment of frustration come out in that way, that anger. And then I just found it interesting that he gets that moment at tribal council where he verbalizes, he says, it's not important to be the architect of the move, but it's important to know where the boats are going. I found that very interesting piece that they include because philosophically or strategically, I believe that, I agree with

that. You can't build every move and you shouldn't. This is a collaborative game. And it's very important to know where things are are going you don't have to drive everything you just have to understand it that's the way i see it so i see it in the same way um but i found it interesting that he he's getting that kind of strategic content plugged in here and there so that was just a kind of extra note yeah honestly a lot of the challenge stuff was interesting like him yeah him being with rome on that and the frustration of that is probably fair i did feel i think think Stephen said like the different ways that they approached getting up like the big wall um was really interesting it was just like then and then the mud and then there was another challenge then if you consider the fact that finding the advantage on the treasure hunt was like a third

part it was kind of like a just like a three-part challenge I'm sure we could have found three minutes there yeah for sure yeah that would have been my yeah but i mean let's get to the chizzy and then any one we want to talk about we will we'll find the space but take it away um jake zygowifey in an mc color one two three guys i finally worked out how to not have it loop. It was just one button, but I still think the volume was a little low, and that's what I'm going to solve for next time. But we're getting it.

And we have the cheesy charts here. Dino, do you want to start? Marion, she wants you to start. We're still doing 3, 2, 1, right? We're doing 2, 1, 1 because there's three of us. 2, 1, 1 because there's three of us 2-1-1 but do your 2-1-1 where the one is like one star where it would be

can I just make it known that my first ever chizzy point that I received was from Marion aww and it was a pity point it wasn't yeah anyway so I'm going to award And it was a pity point. It wasn't! Yeah.

It wouldn't be none of that. Anyway, so I'm going to award, Sam's on 11, Rachel's on 1. So I'm going to award 11 shizzy points to Rachel. I'd love that one. Can we put your two 1s together? No. So which way do you want to start, on the 1-1 or the 2? It doesn't matter.

um so which way do you want to start on the one one or the two it doesn't matter um sure my definitely uh the one is for me going to um uh kyle i think he had a episode so better one or the worst one oh wow the better one or the worst the two really so this is actually i know that it doesn't matter but this is a pretty strange place going into this going into this i had uh three for kyle two for soul one i was in the air um but having had this discussion i'm higher on soul now after this episode so so the better one is going to kyle but that's really one. That's really one. And then two to Sol. I just think he's showing exceptional growth in his game,

and I'm absolutely loving it. I love his approach, and I think this was a really strong episode for him. Yeah. Awesome work, Sol. And then the worst one? And great too. Hey, there's no worst one. It makes it sound bad. It's like you're getting the word in my head. It's not bad. It's just not as good as the first one. It makes it sound bad. It's like you're getting the wooden knife.

It's not bad. It's just not as good as the first one. Mine is fine. It's important for the charts because that's how it will be ordered. Originally, I had it for Caroline just because of the way she approached Sue, but I think I'm actually going back to Genevieve. I like, you know, Mary makes good points on Genevieve trusting her gut she's usually likable I think she just had a although it wasn't like a massive episode it wasn't massive for her

I think she's doing all the right subtle things really really well and big up to you for going out and finding that advantage, taking the bait, having no blowback of finding an advantage of any sorts and still managing to cultivate relationships when there's no time. So, yeah. And then a special mention to Sue, going toe-to-toe with Kyle at the end there, outlasting everybody in the individual at 45, impressive at 46,

which she really is because we know she lied about her age. I know, really good going. I think she's done well, and I'm looking forward to seeing her in more challenges going forward and showing her mettle. Nice. What do you think, Marion? So myself and Dina are so in sync. I've also got jersey points for Kyle, Sol, and Genevieve,

but I had the 3 three to one system. So I'm going to give one to Genevieve. Which one? Because I really um the one that comes after the better one. Do the worst one. Genevieve, my love.

Genevieve, Marion hates you. This is what changed. Marion hates women. You threw that much in this episode. It's pretty good for you. So we're giving the worst one to the woman. So I'm going to give. Yeah, how dare you, Marion, give a worst one to a woman.

As a woman, are you even a feminist? And people should attack you for that opinion. Oh, they're probably going to, but I won't. Okay, Genevieve, I'm going um okay Genevieve I'm gonna give Genevieve one chelsea point um I just I love her I see something so special in her the fact that she trusted trusts her gut it's just it's so special to me and it's also something that's like very personal to me so one for Genevieve um then I'm gonna give to oh my other one sorry to Kyle the better one yeah the better one to Kyle um I think he just he handled the Rome situation really well he got out of it really well um him at the merge

fee saying I don't like what Rome is doing to us i thought it was so powerful and then i'm gonna give two to sol yeah um yeah yeah he came out the victor during their own battle and i think he's um you know just the way that he planted the seeds so subtly the things he said to the people who said it and how he said it. It was done in such a beautiful way. And yeah, so my player of the week is Sol. Yeah, Sol won the fishy as well. Yeah, and I'm also going to give him the three, which is now the two,

which means it's across the board for Sol, that he has got all the available points from three people which is pretty good I think yeah the insulation that people seem to care about protecting him even to the point of the vote again at the feast they don't know but at the point of the vote they do and they I think erroneously put themselves out there for him for the second vote at the very least yeah and then I think he pushed well and subtly against Rome won that battle with Rome which I'm sure he is elated about I've also given my better one to Kyle um I took I was gonna give him three points originally because he really did push it the most but I just I took away the point for

that kind of like misreading of Rome and then I think he recovered from that really well and then I'm gonna give my one point um which I on the rewatch I decided to do this I'm gonna give my worst one to Tiana um Tiana who I really didn't think was coming in in a good spot given you know last week I didn't like how she just threw out Gabe's name but wasn't an option here as you know that we saw and even if that was more that they you know Rome buried himself and people didn't want to kind of go against that. I do think that she did well in reading Rome correctly. When he comes to her with that information, she goes back to Carl. She trusts Carl over him. I think that is correct. Carl is a good ally for

her. Rome isn't a good option for her. Yeah, I think she pushed that well and seemed to kind of make some connections through that. Yeah, so I'm giving one to Tiana. I'm going to give an honorable mention to Caroline, who I wanted to kind to Tiana. I'm going to give an honorable mention to Caroline, who I wanted to kind of squeeze in. I think she handled it well with Sue, even though Sue might be a bit of an issue for her. I think she's been playing well throughout. And I think she seemed to handle Rome really well.

Like he specifically mentioned like Caroline's eating this up and I know that they all blindsided him and it's not so amazing to blindside Rome because 12 people just did it. But I felt like she especially was like putting in the work with that and did very well um yeah and those are the numbers which means Sam's on 11 I'm doing the quick math that everyone can see Sue's on 19 he's on 9 Genevieve's actually gone up to 10 now and Saul's now on 9 and Rome left on seven, which is kind of crazy in hindsight, but he was doing a lot. Andy's on seven.

Kyle's on three. And Gabe's on two. Caroline's on two. Rachel's on one. Tiana's now on one. And Asia left on one. And I think that that is right. What's quite crazy is to not see Sierra with any points because she's done so many things throughout the season.

It's absolutely crazy. And I can get it episodically, but she's just done so much. And I think she's a great gift to the player. Because of the episode, we haven't been like sinking out, but I think it's mad. I think there's a lot of iterations here where, you know, like a Sierra could be doing some big things and she's just not getting that edit.

So I think it's because Sam's getting all the points that would have gone to her well she like suffers in the points I think in that like I'd like you know Sam won that battle against her last week or maybe she's done like little things like giving Andy like the breadwinner name or things like that where I'm like I'm taking away the point but she's not getting the solid points every week but she should be getting like almost like consecutive just like maintenance points on how good a relationship she had with everyone in her tribe and the fact that she was even in the position to make decisions like those kind of relationship points which aren't the flashy like three two one but are like just solid throughout she doesn't get

and that might be a flaw in the chisley system but we didn't say it was perfect we just said that it was excellent so look i mean you won dino and marion didn't say it was perfect. We just said that it was excellent. So, look, I mean, you won, Dino, and Marion didn't win. We can still contest that to this day. So – What were you guys thinking? Get better at this. Exactly. Literally, we don't know what's going on.

That's all I have. Do you guys have other things? Did you have other things in your notes you wanted to discuss? Mm-mm. I actually have the image in my notes. Yeah, I know from the episode. But notes. Yeah, not from the episode. But I will say, I think earlier we were

talking about, you know, toxic fans and whatnot. And before we came on, we were talking about the healthy fans. So if I may, for a moment, just big shout

out. Shannon, thanks for hooking us up with Matt Knoll. Mary and I have had a great chat. So if you're a fan, you put in a good word for Matt. So we'd been chatting and you were like, oh, Mary and I had a great chat so if you're did I do that?

you gave you put in a good word for Matt so we'd been chatting and you were like oh Matt's amazing because I asked you about you know Matt because I saw you

and it's him and you put in a great word for him so if you're a player and Matt Knoll reaches out to you chat to the guy you'll have such a great time

a great fan super super cool shout out to Jeremyeremy shame um reached out to shannon he was visiting sa he's having an incredible trip it was a pleasure to meet jeremy so it's always good to meet uh rhp fans so when you are out the side don't be shy reach out to like me mary and other castaways be great to meet you and then a long time fan who became a friend as well as aj arjun who has the most incredible views. I feel like somebody who's also able to peel back the layers of the game

and that I enjoy chatting to. So, yeah, to the RHE fandom and the really, really rad fans that support it, it's always great being able to be chatting about these things, living the dream, and to be able to meet the cool fans that support it the dream, um, and, um, to be able to meet, to meet the cool fans that, that support it. So, yeah. Thanks. Thanks to you guys. So many fans are the best. I know we did the rant, but that was about the minority and they suck. Yeah. Good ones. Wow. You know, they're the light.

And I think Marion go away with no anxiety. Yeah. What an action. Yeah, we had so much fun Marion. We had so much fun Marion We just had so much fun We had so much fun Thank you for coming on Thank you for having me I must say like also I'll say shout out to Matt I actually came out of hibernation

For Matt Yeah he was He slid into my DMs quite like months ago But me being so not tech savvy, I didn't know that you had like a request DM box. So yeah, I found a lot of messages from my season of Survivor as well as Matt's. But Matt's lovely.

He is amazing. We spoke for about two hours. He's just, he's incredible. Well, where can people find you if they want to slide into the DMs that you can now find? Marion, what is going on? Where can people get in touch with you and follow along with you?

They can find me on Instagram. That's Marion underscore DeVos, M-A-R-I-A-N underscore D-E-V-O-S. And Dino, what about you? Where can people keep about you where can people keep yeah i mean my content is non-existent and pretty much sucks so if you're into that if you want to follow stuff from two years ago uh and also do you know on instagram pop me a message uh or no at that guy dino on instagram jeez i don't even know that's how bad it is and also dina on x do we say x or do you still say no i always say twitter yeah on twitter thank you i don't know how it goes down um so yeah pop a message always it's here from

from you guys well i loved having the mariano alliance on the podcast it was so much fun next week another alliance the invisible hand mark and eden both of them will be my guests to talk through um another episode which i think is looking like the split tribal. So we don't have a sense of what the dynamics will be. I'm given this like big, homogenous, unanimous, pretty much vote. And we probably won't get to learn them, too. But we will talk about it next week with the Invisible Hat. I will say an interesting stat that I had.

Roll Fact Checker let me know that the average number of people who get the um chizzy points in a regular new era season is 12.4 but never less than 12 um and we just that with kyle now getting points we're on 12 so that's where we're at see how much further we get from now that 12 people have points but yeah the fact that sierra doesn't given that does look pretty bad we never said it was perfect okay just said it was there's another amazing fan there, Costa. Rob's fact-checked. I mean, one incredible, I mean, absolutely awesome human as well. There's plenty.

He fosters cats. It's not just about the cats. It's cats and cats with him. The two best things. Yeah. Yeah. Costa's amazing. So, yes, those are the stats on the Chizzy.

The fans are amazing. Follow at shannon gaze i think that's all that i have um did i have more yeah i'm thinking now about how yeah sierra doesn't have chizzy points i feel like that should be the tagline for the chizzy the chizzy it's just fine no i love the chizzy great um thank you boys this was the best i had the best time chatting with both of you thank you shannon for having me yes thanks so much thank you to our amazing listeners thank you to the team behind the scenes and i will see you next week bye australian one million pounds 12 ordinary Australians. It's the season for new styles, and you love to shop for jackets and boots.

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