RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: Survivor 49 Ep 5 with Caroline Courtis

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss speaks to Australian Survivor's Caroline Courtis about episode 5 of Survivor. They discuss the journey and vote from the episode, challenge throwing, the state of the season and the recent comments about AU V World from the On Fire podcast.

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21 South African. 12. Ordinary Australians. Sustay New Zealand. 21 million. One million pounds. Million. Euron.

Shkali. One million. Rumbli. Hello, Hello, and welcome, of Survivor 49 for Survivor Global. I'm your host, Shannon Gus,

here to talk about what I'm hearing is the real Survivor in the world. This is it. This is where proper Survivor happens, and the rest of us are all playing, you know, O-R-Gs. I'm not playing anything. But someone who did play Survivor made it 40.

seven days in what is only quasi-survivor is the amazing runner-up from Titus v. Rebels. It is Caroline. Caroline, thank you for being here. Oh, hey Shannon. Thanks for having me, Darlane. You can tell I've come and fired up. Yeah, we're fired up, baby. We're so freaking fired up. Like, what is going on in the Survivorverse that poverty, two men are trying to take poverty down in the Survivorverse. It's not okay.

for me okay like firstly i had the most passive aggressive intro of all time um because it was a clip from on fire that's making the rounds today of jeremy i felt in a very leading question i do love jeremy collins it might be a little bias but i thought it was a leading question on a cbs product and jeremy said you know jeff asked does it count you know that poverty's win on a uv world and he was like you know it's 1.5 wins that she has um and it's For me, it's not, it's not really the gender aspect. For me, what it is, is the, like, Americans of the center of the world. Yeah.

I mean, there's a wide account. Yeah. And we can talk a lot about this, but I think the way it ties into 49, which is what we're here to talk about, is like, are you kidding me? You're saying that, as you're discussing an episode of 49, you're saying that when AUV World was sandwich between 48 and 49, like, things can turn around and we hope that they do. And I pray, like Shannon does, that 409. 49 turns around, but where we're currently at is probably the worst year of U.S.

Survivor that I can think of. I'd have to go through the calendar years of Survivor between 48 and these first five episodes of 49. And you're telling me that poverty-winning AUV world doesn't really count. Maybe we should be talking about what counts, okay? Exactly. Yeah. Well, so far this season, like I, you know me, I am so invested in.

the show. I love this show. Even the shit episodes, the shit seasons, I love. But, and I've watched Survivor Thailand twice. Like that is, yeah, that's insane. Yeah, that's insane. Exactly. So, and this is. That's credentials. Yeah. Like, that's crazy. Yeah. And you're like, like, photo bio, like, I watched Survivor Thailand twice. I'm here to, like, mess around. And I am not here to mess around because I'm here to tell you that, like, episodes. Episode one was terrible. Episode two was really, like, so bad I could. I've never got up to go and walk and do something else while I'm watching Survivor.

I am like, I am, I'm, I'm on my, like, watching my screen. And, but this is just insane. The episode three, terrible, and this is last episode. I'm just not invested in it. I can't, there's a couple of people and we will get into this who I'm a little bit invested in and I really, really hope they do well, but this is the most boring a season that there's just, I don't know, I don't know what it is. Is it the casting? Is it the edit? Is it just like, and Jeff's like asking leading questions like, this is the hottest season that I can ever

remember and I'm like man you're an old man like of course you're feeling the heat because like you've been doing this since you were a zygote so now it's time to give up because you're getting too old to sit in this heat all day Jeff like honestly it's terrible well I think you know I think people either don't want us to like continually rag on it and I get it or they want the catharsis of the unfiltered opinions and I kind of feel like I need the catharsis I was going to ask you I was like, should I even say this on the podcast? I was watching the episode last night. I fell asleep twice, Caroline.

Now, I need to ask you, both a survivor fan and a medical expert. Is that the pregnancy? Or is that the season? That is boredom, babe. Yeah. And I went back. Like, I'm always, like, good enough that I'm like,

I'm about to fall asleep and I'll pause. So I'm not missing anything. I watch it again, believe me. Yeah. But I fell asleep two different times. I was tired. But, like, Survivor. Have you ever slept?

Fallen asleep watching Survivor before, ever? No memory. But I've also not been watching it like 20 weeks pregnant before. So I don't, you know, I feel... I'm sorry. Maybe I'm like Jeff, like my circumstances have changed. So back to the poverty thing. Yeah, okay, so poverty.

So, I mean, I have a lot more on that because I feel like there's stuff in this episode that kind of points to like maybe what's going wrong. But yeah, on poverty winning half a season with AUV World, we talked about this a lot during... Australia versus the world. Poverty went to nine tribal councils. You know who else went to nine tribal councils?

Kyle won this year. Nine tribal councils. D, nine tribal councils. Like, survived as many tribal councils. At the end of the day, is that not survivor? Poverty is at the first tribal council already getting heat with this big competition,

with the huge reputation that she has. There was more pressure in those first few minutes of AUV world than there has been for many people on this season of 49. she didn't even get a vote at nine and it's legitimate it's not like she went to four or five tribal councils and there have been winners

I think Michelle and Tom went to thereabouts of like fiveish tribal council and I don't have the exact math in front of me but I know that Marianne went to eight I know that Erica went to seven and it's not just a new era I think Tony went to 10 probably went to nine in Kagayan for Tony

so what are we measuring it against is it fewer days less because Jeff never said that of the new era If fewer days, not less, well done Australian Survivor. Actually, you are the only people who count. Christine Jericho, who played at 55 days, apparently it's a sliding scale from you. No one's ever done that. We do not do that.

We can simplify wins. We can compare wins. We can talk about the height of poverty's competition versus maybe days played, maybe shorter, you know, fewer people. We can talk about how many council people go to. We can do all of that. But in terms of that, poverty's not even that she's not far off where modern US survivor is. she's where it is for more sometimes. And then we can compare.

You know, if we do that all the time, we rank wind ashore. But to say it doesn't count as a win, well, now we're getting into a dangerous game. Now I don't want to do that. I don't want to be like, there's a newer account. It counts to me. But now you're getting into that. If things that are different don't count, there's blood versus water count. So someone like Jeremy, your returning seasons count differently.

It's such a vast spectrum that we watch in US survivor alone and global survivor. So to get into qualifying it because there are different. will negate much, much more than you think. And I don't think Jeff would want to go down that rabbit hole as much as he thinks because there are bigger differences in his own franchise and that we would have to address. And I don't do that. And I don't think he should be doing that.

I don't think anyone should be doing that. I think they all count. And then we all look at them for what they are. So why did he ask the question in the first place? I can't get that one. Exactly. What is he achieving by asking Jeremy Collins that question in the first place? I'm trying to be to give Jeff Grace and the fact that he didn't say it

and I do and I've said this before often like if you know if one of my parents annoys me I get mad at both of them my mom's like this isn't fair I didn't you know and I get it like I don't want that to happen to me when I'm a parent you know like Jeff didn't say it Jeremy said it but it just does feel like it's not like Jeff why did Jeff ask this question either most place in yeah to be fair to Jeff we asked this right like this was in the discourse like in AUV world we did talk about, I defended, I think, why it counts. I don't think you should have to do that. And I, but I think that it speaks to, I'm defending against this like American-centric

perspective. And I think the Jeff is adding to it. I don't think that anybody should have to defend themselves against any of these seasons. None of them. Doesn't matter where they are in the world. And I know that, you know, that Australia is up there, that America is up there, and that obviously some of the rest of the world is not looked on as, as tough or as hard. or as whatever. I don't think we should be comparing that. The way that I see it as a former survivor player is we are all part of the same family

and we have all been through this process together. And I, like, the person I feel most sorry for is the cast on Survivor 49 because they must be looking at this and going, oh my God, what have we done? But also, I'm just wondering why he wanted to disrupt the discourse about what's going on in this, like,

with poverty and her win in Survivor, AU versus the world. It was a phenomenal win. Let's just leave it at that. Why does he even have to bring this up in the first place? Jeremy, I adore. I adore. I have adored him for years.

We have friends on social media. I just, I have been so proud of his game. And so to, like, was this something that was contrived before Jeff asked, Like, did they discuss this prior to him asking this online? I don't know. I just, I really didn't like it. And I don't think we should be trying to bring anybody down in the survivor verse. Doesn't matter where it is.

All these survivor players are amazing. It's fucking hard no matter where you are and how over long you do it for. The fact that poverty was playing against players, the best, some of the, like, the best players in the world, two of the best players in Survivor U.S. And she went to so many tribal councils. She didn't get a vote. She was a clear, classy, amazing winner. I think we should just be cutting it off there.

And Jeff, please don't disrupt the discourse. Yeah, I mean, and look, it's very gracious of you because, again, you played 47 days. So if you're willing to allow a friend to the club, Caroline, you should be doing this. You should be like, don't talk to me unless, even if you played 39 days, you're doing eight days more than that.

You could be doing that and you're not. Exactly. Exactly. It's a very dangerous game. And again, it's a hard one because if Jeff just said this straight out, I'd go to town. Jeremy said it. Jeremy said it as an employee of On Fire. I also love Jeremy so much. I hope Jeremy is a winner of AUV World.

And then we can be like, that's a full win, Jeremy. That's the way we'll win this argument. Yeah. Is this a half a win or is this a full win? No, well, I mean, and we'd be happy we'd love to have, I'd love to have Jeremy on an AUV World season. I just think that, yeah, I just think that once you kind of start this conversation, so like, you know, Jeremy, I feel like he's kind of being led there, but he also was a grown man who said what he said.

Jeff did not say anything. And again, I'm trying not to put it on him. Yes, I can't think about it the way you're thinking about it. I think the fact that that Jeff asked the question in the first place was a leading question. And so it felt leading. It felt different to the way we spoke about it because it felt like, but then again, I'm putting words in Jeff's mouth, and I don't necessarily want to do that. But I think the entire sentiment around what counts and what doesn't count do not play that game with me. Because if there is a

swap next week in the next time on, a lot of people will not go to tribal council to the final 11. And that does happen. These haven't been three tribes seasons. I think Tan Dang was maybe at the final 11 as well. But, you know, that will mean that with fire, which takes out a vote, if someone wins, like I say, Stephen wins and he doesn't go to tribal next week, he'll have been to seven tribal council. So does that count more than poverty? You know, these people have not been to tribal council in 10 days. Does that count? Like everyone has different criteria. Best not to, best not to qualify on the criteria, because we all have things that we value more, whether it's days, whether it's tribal councils, whether it's number of people, whether it's like how high that competition

is, whether it's, you know what I mean? Like we all have things that we qualify it on and that's why we all have our subjective rankings of winners and we're all entitled to that. But if you start then talking about what counts and what doesn't count based on that criteria, well all of ours is different and now I think we've opened the can of worms and again Jeff weren't like because then his precious new era and I don't want to do that but then his precious new era has to be degraded he was the one that but I don't want to do that no I don't want to either like I don't even want to give like any airplay to this actual conversation because I think it's horrible anyway I don't think that any survivor any win on

any season should be judged. Yeah. Just full stop. Full stop. I think it's, I think it's disgraceful. And I think it's a slight on the actual, the, the global franchise. And we don't want to do that. Like we have, it is an amazing franchise.

Let's just leave it alone. Let's not touch it. Let's respect it. It is what it is. Yeah, I completely agree with you. Yeah, I think that, I think it's about when you say what doesn't doesn't count when you take away someone's win. Yeah.

If Chris Underwood counts as a win and believe me, and believe me, I count it. You would say, oh, I don't rank poverty's win highly because she played against as many people. I don't agree with you. Again, I think she went to as many tribal houses. I think she played one of the best wins of all time. But you can rank how you rank. But it counts.

And if Chris Underwood freaking counts and it does. And I don't think I've ever said it doesn't count. I just say it's not my favorite win, can we say? Exactly. How on earth? How on earth, Jeff, in your own franchise, will bring someone back as a third boot and have them win? Can you say, can you not say, but can you imply, can you lead to poverty? So this is a, it's, it's been 25 years.

We have a cacophony of wins. We have a very diverse, you know, gay and quite globally and in the US. Like, we can't now be ruling out what councilor does it because it's just, it's way too diverse a field. And what my other question is, would he? have asked the same question if somebody else had won. I think so, yeah. I do actually think so.

Because he doesn't like Australian Survivor. I don't think it's about poverty. I think Jeff loves poverty. I think it's about how he looks at Australian Survivor. And I think that... What if Tony had won? What if Tony... I think the same.

I think of Surrey. I think all of them. I think Jeff loves poverty. Like, I don't... You know, she's an icon. She was mentioned in this episode. You were mentioned in this episode of 549. I think she's one of the episodes.

biggest icons of the game, obviously. I just think it's about the way that Jeff looks at Australian Survivor. It's just so insulting. We just want to be loved. What are we doing? How are we hurting you, Jeff? He said nothing. But, yeah.

Yeah, right. I don't know. Like, from what we've seen, you know, he went out to lunch with JLP. I would have thought that he wouldn't have wanted to put a slight on Australian survivor because he's got had and still has to this day such a great relationship with JLP. who, you know, obviously is not there now, but has been there for the last 10 years. So I think I kind of disagree on that.

Yeah. He's said things. I mean, he did bring up positively. He said like, oh, poverty just won. We're like, oh, he acknowledged us. And we were so happy. He said that like on a red carpet recently. But Jeff is always, he said, you know,

he gets mad if people even go on Australian Survivor. Like he definitely. But Surrey went on and then went on to play 50. so yeah it's not saying he's not a hypocrite okay I'm just saying he doesn't like I don't think it's a poverty thing I actually I really do think and I think as well and now you're getting psychological getting a better man who did not say anything but damn I would be doing the same thing if I was putting out survival 49 right now and they had just had a UV world I mean it's it's obtuse I think but like if you want to get the narrative of what is proper survivor we mean you maybe

have to force it. And sometimes if you try to force it and it doesn't fit, it probably doesn't belong there. But I, to quote the man himself, I feel like I would also be desperately trying to hang on to that narrative if this year was 48 and 49 of US Survivor. Because thank God for AUV world. And I also, I really enjoyed brains and more. Exactly. But how can he not think that AU versus the world wasn't one of the greatest seasons that we've had? I mean, it has been a worldwide success. Like, it has been such a huge. Yeah, right. Well, I think that's... To be fair, wouldn't you hate that if you put out Survivor? And then someone else was like, I love you, you're my big brother. We also do Survivor. And everyone was like,

this might be better. This is incredible. You would hate, I would hate that. I get it. I actually totally get Petty Jeff. Like, I actually... I imagine that they're paying for these franchises. So the person who actually owns Survivor, a Survivor franchise, it's up to them, isn't it? It's not up to Jeff. He's the host. He will, yeah, I mean, I think it's just, you know, he lives and breathed survivor and he's not, you know, and I don't think he lives and breathed the global franchise. Like, he lives in a US survivor. And then when people, when people start saying, A.U. Survivor's better than US. Like, he definitely would hate that. And I totally, I fully understand that.

I understand that. But I also, like, look at how many other franchises of other shows out there. This is, it's not like Australian Survivor has on. been around for five minutes. We've been around really long time. So we've proven ourselves on the world stage. I know so. Like we have. And comparing our 47 days or 45 days that we're doing now, compared to 26 days on Survivor US right now, like we've got a great show. So I think he should be proud because we wouldn't have it without the US Survivor. So, you know, and the fact that we are slightly different. It's great, but yeah, I don't like the fact that he, maybe he's had beef with this in the past, but I think he should have respect. And I think he should have had

more respect for poverty. Yeah. Like to even make this comment about her, even if he does respect her and like her and she's an icon and all those things, he shouldn't have asked that question because, and I imagine that they would have discussed it beforehand. So he would have had an idea of where Jeremy's answer was going to go. So I don't think there's actually any excuse here personally. That's just with me. Totally agree. It was disrespectful to poverty, which you put into the game. And it was disrespectful to Australian Survivor, who, as you said, are doing it in a survivor's image. Yeah, they both owe her an apology. I agree with you. I completely agree with you. It was a fantastic win. It was a joy to cover.

and enjoy and absolutely so good i hope that um yeah i mean i would love for jeff to maybe look at this take something like this and like reflect on it and then you know start to see that like again as you said it's a point of pride that australian survivor yeah we love u s survivor like and look how much we try to incorporate it that's when we do a uv world and wanted to do a uv u.s and i've ever had russell and sandras since almost the inception we had russell you know in third season like we have so much respect like we're just yeah hence why they had so many u.s players even on the world tribe do you know what i mean like yeah we wanted it to be a whole tribe you know like exactly we would love it to be a uv um

us but the fact that they did the world was absolutely awesome as well but um yeah i think yeah you boys you boys owe her an apology yeah well uh preaching to the choir anyway good 20 minute rant about that. Should we talk about Survivor 49? Do we have to? Yes. I'd be happy just to chat with you. Well, we can, we can chat. Um, you know, I've said this for twice, so I know, yeah, so I'm 29. Did you lock the front door? Check.

Close the garage door. Yep. Installed window sensors, smoke sensors, and HD cameras with night vision. No. I... And you set up credit card transaction alerts, a secure VPN for a private connection and continuous monitoring for our. personal info on the dark web? Uh, I'm looking into it. Stress less about security.

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Yeah. Yeah. And then last week I said, I kind of get that they didn't throw it last week, even though both sides could technically split if they bring in the Kale member, which seemed obvious. You know,

maybe you want to feel it out. You don't want it to be so rigid. You want to see if you make new connections with these other tribe members. So I kind of got it. But I said next week, which was this week, surely they'll start throwing.

Because at this point, they've played out the dynamics. Like at this point, they know there's really nothing with Jason. As I said, like, this is kind of a good thing that we lost. It's like, yeah, there's a way you can try to do that.

Do you think they're even thinking of it, though? Like, do you think this comes, like, are they smart enough to think of it? It's not a, it's not a question of intelligence. Because I think that most of the time, like strategy-wise. Creative, I think, is the word. Because, I mean, I think that often they do the, like, responsible, salient thing this season. And that's almost, like, worst TV. It's like, you played that, like, how one should play it.

Like, but I think it's maybe a, maybe it's, say um for me it does kind of represent everything that's wrong with the season but it's not about a lack of like strategic intelligence it's about a lack of like teeth it's like again in our version that doesn't count an Australian survivor when we have like a war we take hostages you know like where they're on the mat like and king georg did this and AJ did this this year and like it's heated and like they're like this is like this oolihina war but it's such a polite war we're not going to actually throw a challenge even though it's such a safe way to do that they know Jason doesn't have an idol he didn't play anything last time it's obvious they

both majorities have their own idol the potential for it with mc and rizzo um then sage tells them that um rizzo has the idol so they know Shannon doesn't have it Shannon's such a great person to take out all the other uly side they're bringing face over and he has been honest with them and told them that rizzo has got the idol yeah there's so much there and it just it just takes one person to be like to do that push to be a little devilish i love what rob said on know it all's where he's like the people that were kicked out of the, you know, on the, to get the alternates, like the chatty troublemakers, maybe we needed a couple of troublemakers. I think that it kind of does represent the lack of throwing what's wrong with the season for me.

Obviously, the disaster tribes of production and the new era and all of that. But then it's like the cast is so nice. Like, I want to be friends with all of them. And I think I'll meet many of them in a couple of weeks. Yeah. As a ragging on the season to extremes. But I just, I'm looking for the teeth. You know, Savannah's got a bit of that.

But I'm looking for more of that. Yeah, the grit, exactly. they're doing like the salient thing they're doing the kind thing for sure they're crying over the chicken these are people asking my own heart like I'm not saying that I don't resonate with that they had a conversation about

who their favorite Pokemon was I literally talked about that on my podcast with Peter Gusen around he said his favorite Pokemon this week they're my people every bad thing you say about the new era is me it's a cast of Disney adults hello it's a cast of theater nerd yes but maybe maybe it's a cast of like

white color nerds survivor nerds yes me too but maybe i don't want to watch 18 mes do you know not push it enough and not and do the kind of sensible thing why wasn't there a country person there to lop the neck their head off the chicken or kill the chicken like why was it like they all city folk like come on the the old survivor that we have loved is the diversity it's it's people coming from the smallest country towns to the largest cities and everything in between. That's what we love about Survivor is the diversity. And we're just not seeing that like this season. It's just not grabbing us and just like throwing us to the ground and

go and we've got this. Like it's just not there. And that's what we want. Survivor white collar versus white collar versus white collar. And just like go a challenge, take a hostage. And it's not even just like the, Jason was like, wow, I wish I'd said to them, like, help me. Help me, Paul. Like, yes, Shannon as well. I mean, Shannon, to be fair thing, she's like, that's another reason you should throw. Shannon's not playing a shot in the dark. Like, you'd have a well snowed. Um, Jason doesn't even end up playing a shot in the dark. Why didn't play his shot in the dark? Yeah, so we can talk about the vote. They must have really, like, worked him over good to, to show him that they were all freaking voting for Rizzo, as if they

we're all, like, is he on a completely different show that we're not, that we can't see? Because we didn't see any of that. I know. It was so half-baked as a storyline and yet Jason fell for it. I think he was the only one. And every episode is half-baked. Like, there's nothing we can really get, go, oh, is it going to be a really great story here? No, they've fucked it up again. I mean, yeah, it's been five unanimous votes. I think that maybe the three person on Kelaire was like that was kind of interesting but yeah i mean here i was looking at it i'm like are they right because like savannah is like clearly like genuinely annoyed at joan so it's like is there anything there but it was like would just be such an unforced error like to the point

where again throwing to take out jason is what they should have done so letting jason stay when again the other tribe should be throwing to save jason if you're saving jason it's just such an unforced error joan god love him is loyal he's wringing the rocks he's he's he's feeding Rizzo to Jason even though he really likes Jason and he really like Matt and he hasn't had the potential to flip and he hasn't wanted to. He's like Uli strong and like Savannah does have like

seemingly real very private beef with him that he doesn't know about but like taking out Juan when the numbers are kind of in balance would have been a crazy thing to do and it's talking about okay we don't want to start the war it's like you'll start the war and you'll finish it like you'll start and win the war

why don't this is what I don't understand why don't they want to start a war. A war they'll win. Pardon? It's a war they'll win. So like great. Exactly. But start this war. Like this is television. This is reality television. This is what we want to see. We want to see a war. Why didn't they start a war? And why they keep saying, oh, but we don't want to start a war,

we'll fucking start a war. Like. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get for them that they're like, it's a social game. We want it to be fluid. We don't want to cut off options. And, like, taking out Jason is, it's a line in the sand that, like, clearly we just take out the heenas. But to be fair, if you don't take out Jason and now you've evened up the numbers, now he's in a position where maybe they'll actually wage the war because they can win it. If you are winning the war numerically and you take out Jason, now there actually is the opportunity for fluidity, maybe counterintuitively, because the war is kind of over. You know what I mean?

Like, if you kind of get a head start on the war, take out a couple of heena members, then the last remaining Hina members will have to work with you, but on your term, but it will be fluid. Whereas if it's kind of even, maybe Hina shore up, you take out Jawan, you don't even know what's happening with Sage, but even if nothing bad is happening with Sage on the other side, if you take out Juan, seemingly, you'll lose Sage for sure. They might have Alex, they've kept Jason.

Like, now they're at a war where they might actually win. Whereas if you keep Juan, try and keep Sage with him, not that you know what's happening there. Hopefully Shannon has that on lock and we'll talk about it. You have Sophie, maybe Sophie gets Alex, like, you've won the war take out you know get to the merge take out a couple of people who you can least work with from he or all the biggest threats and then the remaining people will have to come with you to you and it will be fluid but it'll be fluid on your term so it was such a no brainer

I was like I don't know who could fall for this Jason did Jason didn't play a shot on the dark Jason clearly snowed by Savannah but for me it was like there would be no point not to take a shot to the point where I think you should have thrown to take the shot so for me it was it was open and shut. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I, I, I don't know, I'm just, it's just a bit of a snows vest. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I mean, what do you think about like Savannah's even question here about Joanne versus Jason as options? Um, well, it's, I don't even think it's a great question. Like, whether it's Jason or Joanne, it actually doesn't matter to me. Like, I don't see. I don't I'm sorry, it doesn't really matter.

Like, we can see that they've, by taking Jason, they've drawn a line in the sand, okay, they've drawn a line in the sand. What's going to happen next week? And we can see from next week that maybe they're going to three tribes. So what does that mean? There's three tribes of four. How are they going to, like, how is that all going to work out? That is also going to be another news fest because whoever, we're going to have another, shalacking again of the tribe that's obviously the weakest is just going to get

annihilated again and we go through the same process again so and are we going to three and then the following week we're going to merge like yeah are we doing emergatory like what's going on yeah it's hard it's hard we we don't know that and at least they're trying to change it up so we have to give credit there um we do taking out joan would matter because it would it would be a very it would be a huge unforced error that would take the kind of power away from Uli and give it to Hina. That already feels like it's not going to have. I feel like Hina are just way less developed in the edit for me.

Even if they get conventional, if we kind of talk about this with Australian Survivor, it'll be like, this person doesn't have as many confessions, it's like, but you know them. It's really like often quantity. Like someone like the other Sophie,

he has some confessionals. She has the fewest confessions, I think, but like they're all about food. Like, have we actually met Sophie? Like, do we know? So you know what I mean? It's like, if you have 10 confessionals, where you don't find out a lot about you

that could mean less than having seven confessionals where we find out a lot about you so I think with Hina we got a bit with Christina but I just kind of feel like and we have with MSC we have had it and maybe in the and I don't know why I'm getting the sense but it really feels like Uli and Kela obviously have been the main characters

and Hina are like water yes exactly I totally agree had they taken out Jowan here it would have given Hina the emphasis to kind of really come in and take control I do think last week I said Juwan was like on the bottom like Marianne was and it's on a terrible spot. I think he's more on the bottom than that. I think he's like a Jay Meyer or a seafood where he's very careful for them and will be early. I don't know if he'll ever get the opportunity to make his move. But they're

so worried about him, but he's not going anywhere. He's not trying to make his moves. Like I feel bad for Joanne. That's exactly right. He is so, so loyal. And so it's just because he's annoying that he and they've and whatever whatever that looks like like if somebody took my water bottle and if somebody took my bag to put that to collect wood in you know i'd be be mad about it for a second but then it'd be like it'll be fine do you know what i mean like i'm not going to hold it against him especially if he's a good guy and he's you know he's in my alliance or he's somebody that i can strategize with or whatever but yeah there's obviously more there than meets the eye and obviously he can be pretty annoying.

He really wants to stay with Uli. I think we've seen him have a relation with Sage. And if she's fully jumping to Hina, he could go with her. She's jumped, babe. She's jump. But I don't know if Jawan will want to go with her. Like, Jouan is all in.

He has never shown anything other than complete 100% loyalty from anything that I've seen in my edit. So it's just, it's a hard one to, like, yeah, if it was a sage, sure, you know, like Sage is, has jumped. Sage is at this point, Hina. Like, she is, for instance and purposes, she's Tina. But Ja-Wan has never been that.

Like, this is why it feels contrived, because it's not actually Fulhina versus, like, squeaky wheel. Like, he could turn, but Jason will definitely turn. It's like Jason will definitely turn. And Ja-Wan seems like he really won't. And it's interesting when we'll talk about the groups from next week. Like, Joanne will be with, I think, Sage, Stephen, and Shannon. So at that point, Juan might have no choice, and it will actually prove Savannah, right?

But that really doesn't seem like his intention. So I just kind of feel bad because I don't think, I mean, I don't think there's anything there. Again, I think we spoke about it for too long in this episode because it was such a slam dunk to not take out someone. Let's stop talking about it then. Let's know you want to something else. Read the Rock. Okay, well, let's talk about, let's talk about Sage. I know you were saying before the podcast that you really like Sage.

That's good. That's positive. I, I, like, obviously I've just watched the episode. And I, the look that she gives the camera when they're, when she, she's hugging Shannon hilarious. I love it. And she has clocked Shannon like that. And the fact that she's being able to bring in these other boys, I'm absolutely loving. She's obviously a smart cookie. Shannon, like the way that I see some of these people is how would I play with them? Like how would they, how would they impact my game if I was out there with them? And I kind of feel

like Shannon would really ruffle my feathers. Like she would, she'd be like scraping fingernails down a blackboard for me. Like I, like you, I'm also an atheist. I respect religions, no problem, but I don't want it shoved down my throat. Like you can, I don't want anything shoved down my throat. So I don't, I'm not sure that I'm loving what she is serving at the moment. I think that Sage has clocked her in such a way by saying that she, she is able to get out of these people, what means the most to them. And then she latches onto that and she doesn't let go.

And that really resonates with these people. They really think, oh, my God, she's so invested in me. I'm going to invest back in her. Like, she seems so amazing. But, and she's clearly playing the game. She's very strategic. She's looking ahead. All those kind of things. Yeah, but I'm just, I'm just, I think Sage has just got, she's got, she's funny. she's smart she's cute she's silly like you know i love the silliness i am not digging the blackheads in a jar let me tell you but i don't want to know about that but you know like you know and we all you know we all have silly people like that you know or people that kind of joke about those kind of things in our lives and they really bring like to the to the room and so i think she'd be

hilarious to have around, but she's also, I'm also loving that she's clocking these people because I don't think, I'm seeing a lot of that. I don't think that a lot of people are kind of like, they're like, as soon as they meet these people, they're loving them. Like, as soon as they meet them, it's like, there's more to it than that. Like, let's just get to know each other. And I know we only have 26 days, but I'm not going to love somebody, many people from day one. Like, That's, anyway. It's interesting you bring up the blackheads because I think that Shannon and Sage are opposites in that way, whereas like Shannon connects with you. She's really good at that.

Yeah, you're drawn to her really quickly. But then maybe the shine starts coming off, like is a genuine, you know, and you start questioning that. So it's kind of like a downward trajectory. And then Sage, it's like the first thing I heard was in her interview was about the blackheads. The first thing she introduced everyone to herself in the tribe, blackheads. The first thing when she gets on the beach. Yeah, and she said, you might think I'm absolutely crazy and you're probably right. I didn't like that.

Yeah, I don't like the black. I think the first thing she said when she came on the mat on the first second of the game was how she was peeing off the boat. So she's a slower burn, right? Hopefully not with the peeing off the boat. But I think that, yeah, I don't know why I made that joke. I think that she... I think that's the way that she deals with her anxiety and her nervousness.

Yeah. And that's how it comes, is projecting. And that's, that's okay. The word vomit. The word, yeah. And I, but that's why it's so frustrating for a sage. And look, I get this as like an extroverted introvert. There are definitely situations where I feel super uncomfortable.

And I can't be the Shannon, ironically, given that I am Shannon. But I can't be that survivor Shannon who is so effortlessly connecting with people and putting herself out there. And sage is just sitting by herself. And like, I, I criticize that in the game. because that's not what she meant to be doing. But I totally get that. But I also think I'm someone who maybe like,

if you connect with me, like we can do that. And I think Sage, it like takes that time. And now she's had that time. And that's built a more genuine connection with people. It's just like they have to get over the initial humps of not really getting her as much. Although Stephen did say from the beginning that she was weird and he's weird and he liked that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I think with Shannon, yeah, it's a very opposite thing.

And I think time has behoved Sage and detracted. from Shannon, but I think as well with Shannon, you know, again, what Shannon is doing would not, I don't think work for me. Again, as we're saying, like, it's not, we're not in that spiritual plane, you know, at all. But I do think, you know, some of it I will continue to defend Shannon. Like when Sage is like, well, she connects with people, she finds what's important to them. She makes them feel seen. I'm like, this is a good social game. Actually, that's just like a good way to connect with people at all. Like, I don't want to take away from that. I think where it gets manipulative as we see her say to multiple people, you know, she's quantifies it, you're my number

one, if you're my top people, then it becomes, it seems genuine. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's And they're all now clocking it as well. And they're like Stephen and, who was it, explain, MC explaining it to Christina. It was like, because Christina is obviously quite mesmerized by Shannon at this point. And they're like, ah, but can you see that she's actually doing this to everyone and that this is how she's playing the game. And Christine is like, oh, I didn't even get it from that perspective. I was just looking at it from how she impacts me and how she makes me feel. Fair enough.

No worries. But there's more to this game than just getting to know somebody. And you need to find out, you need to find out who your allies are pretty quickly. But you can't, you have to know that not every single person on your tribe can be your ally. Yeah, I do think, though, that was Shannon, like with all that in mind, she is impeded more than Sage because Sage wasn't in the Oolie group, right? Like, Sage was feeling like out there. Sage has the opportunity to jump, and Sage has done very well.

Sage got put into what looked like a bad swap and actually breathed new life into her game. And is she going to the bottom of Hina? She breathed new life into the bloody show. Like, it was great. It was, it's true. That's what we wanted to say. There was some teeth, which was great. But I think, but like, if she's at the bottom of Hina, maybe she is, I don't know, but there's

opportunity. It's a new thing where she's definitely at the bottom of Ui. She jumps ship, she gives herself a new, maybe to a numerical minority now, we don't know. But she's also not crying, poor me. Like, I'm in a shit situation. How am I going to get out of this? She's not doing that at all. And then you look at like Sophie on the other tribe, who I also quite like, but the complaining,

like, Sophie hasn't eaten and day. Xovia's never had Flint, never once in the game. Like, I just... I can't imagine, like, I didn't eat for four days. I can't imagine what it would have been like to only have eaten coconut in a week, like in seven days. That would have been... Yeah, I think they're at 10 days.

Yeah, I think when they were talking about it, though, I think they were at about seven, great days or whatever. It doesn't matter. But, yeah, it would be, like, it would have been horrific, like, terrible. And yes, your brain does go and do. silly things but I think this I don't know I just don't like complainers

but Sophie I mean look Sophie I've complained about a lot less like she's had a very different experience to anyone else you've gone to every single tribal council she's never won a challenge not one competition based thing has her group ever

won in this season compared to Shannon who are competing at this level have only won challenges they've had certain rewards I mean like Uli was kind of coming second, but they've always had Flint. They have chicken now. It's good. I like seeing their brains firing in this real war rather than Sophie who's a great character

being like, I just can't right now. They're like, it's fine. You just rest, you know? Like, I don't love them gassing the players to the point where they can't play. I want to see them play. We can talk about that with the journey in this in this. That's what happens when you get three tribes of six, isn't it? Yeah, and a disaster.

It's not being annihilated and then they end in disaster. Exactly. So, you know, it's not good television to watch this happen. Well, I think as well with, so Sage has the opportunity to jump and she does. I think that what Shannon does badly is anything definitive. Anytime you're like, you're my number one, you're like my top people. Like she says, like Christina, Steven. There's a lot of people to be bringing into the inner circle, even if it's true.

I think all the stuff she does well is like, well, the deaf touch is good. Like what she says to Stephen about the plan, it's not mutually exclusive with her being Uli strong. She's like, we're going to look out for each other as a group. It is a good plan, and I think it's a genuine plan. And again, it doesn't actually step much on the Uli toes. It's about having other options, which you can have in Survivor. But I think it points where she can't, where she is more definitive.

And honestly, some of that is baked in. She's definitively more pro Uli. She does not tell the group about Rizzo's Idol. How can she? Christina said on Twitter that she did tell Christina, but she can't go to the group. and say, Rizzo is an idol, I'm with you. Sage can do that.

But then now, Shannon has lost its binary war, but she's not in a position to flip. And at other times where she is trying to be quite definitive, there's not as much follow through again because she's not in that position. But she wants two from every tribe, right? So who is she going to take from her own tribe? That's the one thing she didn't say.

Obviously, Sophie and Alex was only two. That's the floor in this whole plan. I think she would take Savannah. That's her number one. Right. But again, again, like, I still think she's Uli strong. I just think that she wants eyes and ears out. Like, I think that she's, that's actually not to,

even though it was addressed to the wrong person, Steven's been clocking her. She's not meeting him. Like, she's stepping on the wrong toes there for sure. But the plan itself, I actually think is genuine and has merit for her. And like, but then it's other things where she can't definitively lean in as much.

And then other times when she's like, you're the ones I feel best about like the kind of the the over deliverance but no the over promising and under delivery I think that when she gives a plan like that she's actually she can actually deliver on it but it's when you're just happy that there's a plan

though like no I mean I think it's not it's not like rocket science you know we've seen there's multiple new era seasons of like bringing like they talk about there's no at all like Q was trying to do this in 46 I just think I just I don't think I think that I think that I think that I think that plan was genuine, is what I'm trying to say.

But I still think she prioritizes Uli, as she should. And I think that not being able to not prior, she's not able to prioritize this group, but she's trying to give them a lot. And every time she over promises, that's where it's not genuine. That's where it's going to be blocked. That's where it's going to be picked up. And that's when she either can't say things like you have the idol or she says too much. Like, I feel best with you.

It's like, okay, but that's like your seventh best ally in the game. You know what I mean? So I think that she's in a tougher position than Sage because she can't really flip. so she's having to be less genuine. Sage can genuinely flip. Sage has no complications. Like Sage can be like, Rizlo is the idol.

I'm with you. I hate Oulu. I'm done. Color me yellow. Whereas Shannon is Uli strong. But she has to be like, I feel really, really, really strong with you.

I'm the strongest with you. That's a lie. You know, like I really want to be with this group, but I can't tell you about the idol. You know, so I think the things where she balances it well to be like,

I'm really strong, but we can have a plan. Fair and genuine. But when she's saying, when she's trying to do more than that, she either can't do more than that, and then they'll clock her being like, you're not giving us as much as Sage,

or she tries to do more of that and it doesn't come across as genuine because it's not genuine because she can't give that, like, stage name. I don't know if that's... Did you... So, Shannon and Sage on the same tribes that you saw for next week?

Yeah, yeah. So that might actually play out, which would be good because it would be earned. And Stephen, and Stephen, which was like a main name they were fighting over. So... So was Stephen and who else? And Joanne.

It was Joanne. It was your Juan, Sage, Shannon, and Stevenson. Okay, okay. Well, that's going to be interesting. That could be fun to do it. Yes, that would play out and feel earned in a way that has not really felt super earned so far. Yeah, with disaster tribes and swap screwing and stuff. So we'll see if that.

I mean, we don't know what's happening. We'll talk about the next time on. But, yeah, I mean, I do think Sage was really good here. Yes. And I also blame Sage less for the non-throwing. Because she can't do that. You know, like, she's not, whereas like the Stevens of the world, MC, who are apparently close to Jason, Jason said he had a four with, I think Sophie, MC and Stephen.

They're the ones who should be in the driver's seat to throw. If it's a war, cement the war, damn it. Like, throw the challenge. Vote out Shannon. She'd be numb the wiser. It's perfect. You really don't expect to stay in these groups another round. and they're not, but I guess

expect the unexpected, but not really, even though the seasons are a bit different. It was just such a slam-dug and my question is, are they not doing that because immunity challenges are tied to Flint and rewards? Which case, it's another reason I hate the production does that and I don't agree. Like, I think you have to make

sacrifice. I totally disagree as well. It should not be tied. It's absolutely frigging ridiculous and it is making it's not making good television and I assume that that's what they thought it would do, but it's not. If it stopped them from throwing, which would have been interesting and correct, then that's like a painful thing.

And I don't think that either of these tribes should have been looking to win this challenge. But should we talk about the journey? Let's talk about the journey. That's annoying. What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it.

I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bel Air Direct and use the money to fix your car. Bel Air Direct, insurance, simplified.

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with Tim's new cravable wraps available in Chipotle or Ranch. Plus tax at participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. Did you like this journey? Not really. I think having to lift a hundred heavy bags from one end of the beach to the other like in the boiling hot sun and

I mean you know we but we know that they'd both eaten but it was I don't know and I I kind of like the way that Nate kind of really played her like getting her to come back come back before the like there was so much time left and MC had so much more time to go and find an idol but I really didn't want her to lose a vote because that meant that she was going to lose two votes. Like this tribal council. Yeah, I don't know how that works. Like I don't know how that works on. Has that even happened before?

There was definitely talk about it even since 41. I remember Brad like had beware and then could have lost a vote and it was like, how will this happen? I spoke to Mike and Omer about this and they kind of disagreed with me. They felt like you'd lose a vote and even like say you like don't have the beware advantage and you've lost a vote here. and then you, like, gain your beware advantage after one tribal council where you lost a vote. You'd still lose another one, like, consecutively. I kind of feel like you wear them in the same tribal council, so it's kind of like you might as well risk your vote. That's certainly how we used to talk about it in 41.

I don't know if there's any clarity on this. I'm happy to be pointed to that clarity. I don't know, yeah, if it's worn in the same tribal. I would like to know, yeah. Yeah, because it really makes a difference because losing two consecutive votes is incredibly painful. it makes it like more precious than ever. But to be fair, MEC would really think she's probably going to find that. Be worried about it.

So it's not a real threat. But it's like if you know you're losing a vote anyway and it's going to be worn in the same tribal, in the same tribal council, then you can risk your vote more because then it's like it's kind of like a free shot where you're not actually losing a different. But if she had an, if she didn't think that she was going to lose a second like this like.

Yeah, she seemed to think she was going to lose a second. Exactly. Exactly, that's my point. Also, if she didn't, then she would have gone and taken the time that was left on the time I'd go into the jungle and see if she could find that advantage. That is true, except that she hasn't actually lost her vote. She just doesn't have a vote until she finds Beware,

and she's highly likely, highly, highly likely to find. But she doesn't know that. We know that. Yeah, the track record of finding Beware is, like, extremely high. Like, I think you can bet on yourself, you know, so it's not, But you are right, and how pressure she felt about her vote does make it feel like it was even more. But I still think that you would assume you're going to actually have a vote. So it's not as much of a real conundrum, but that is a good point.

I mean, I felt like, I didn't feel like Nate was guessing one over on MC. I love the way he approached this from beginning to end. Nate is great, by the way. Nate's one of my favorites. We had a question from Justine Costello who asked, can Nate be an honorary member of the Middle Age Mafia to give him a rest from the vibes? Sure. Nate is

I love Nate Like I really love everything He's really one of my favorites Yeah I agree I love the way that he was Playing it from the beginning Like I love that he and Savannah

Went into the rock drawer And then Joanne rigged it So that Jason wouldn't get it It was mean It wasn't mean It was unfortunate for Jason But it was the right thing to do Yeah

Without like putting him off And make you know Because they still want to pretend To work with him So he doesn't play shot in the dark So it's not like No you're not going Because I've talked about

Being antisocial In the journeys before But they're like No no no That move from Joanne was clever. It was really clever. And obviously he had to think of it on the spot, but it was really good. Yeah.

Because they were so surprised when the boat was coming. It's like, surely they would be expecting somebody to go on a journey any minute. Yeah, they've rigged the sticks, I think it was in Lauren did it in 44. They didn't survive in New Zealand, Thailand. They rigged the sticks. But it was a smart thing to do, especially because Joanne, well, Jawan might be, like, if Jason goes, even if he doesn't get anything, if you're scared about it, like, you're splitting on Jawan.

Like, you know, and if Jason plays the show on the dark, nobody's splitting any votes. Nobody's splitting any of them. Well, they split last week, yeah, but if, if Jason feels more threatening and could have something, Jawan's name is coming out of the year. Yeah. So it made, it made sense for him to, um, yeah, to try something there. And I wonder if he told the others after. happened. Yeah. And that was showing me how loyal he is. So loyal. Like, and Jason had no idea.

So that was really good. Yeah. And yeah, I think, I think they all should have put, to be honest, have done. I think John probably felt he couldn't because he'd been on a journey. Like, and Rizzo, to be fair, had been on a journey. So they probably, because we're also polite about the journeys. It was so polite in the season that I think they probably preclude them from that. But as many people as, and Sophie was probably exhausted. So that was probably why it became Nate and Savannah having to take one for the team. So I see how that was like the polite thing to do. But I think it was really good of both of them to even Nate doesn't want to go

and he like puts it on the line because he knows it's more important to like not have Jason go there. Be with MC who he's aligned with. They could work together to give him the advantage. Like Jason would have had a really good shot of getting something in that journey. So I thought that was really good. And then the way that Nate tried to connect with MC, I thought was great. Yeah. And I mean, she clocked it straight away as well.

She was like, I can see what he's doing. but, I mean, it's all good because you've got to ask, you know, fire off 20 questions to ask these people, you know, we don't know how much longer we've got together. So let's get to know each other pretty quickly. And you never know. You might just bond over something that is, you know, your favorite movie or whatever. Like it's Marvel. Pardon?

Hopefully MC likes Marvel, considering he's like a massive Marvel producer. You know, he's asking that question in the same Jeff Prope's leading way. Like, what's your favorite movie? You're a Black Panther fan? Like Captain American? Yeah. Yeah. Really like those movies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and then I didn't think that he was manipulating her. Like his plan made sense for both of them. Like if you go for the advantage, you have a higher time of losing your vote. It's uncontrolled and it's combative where this is collaborative together. And it's public because when you find it, then the other person has to do the rest of the journey alone. So everyone in the game will know. You'll seem like a snake. Yeah. But why did he go back to his tribe and not tell them about finding. Yeah, I didn't think, I didn't, he's like, they really bought it. I'm like, what's the buy?

Tell them exactly what happened. You became your vote. You were so trustworthy. There's nothing happened. Exactly. Why wouldn't you just tell them what you did? I agree. And that there was, and that neither of you got the advantage.

It was so unsnaky. There was nothing to lie about. Like, they literally just were like, let's be, again, exactly this season. Let's do the salient responsible thing. Let's make sure we maintain our vote. Let's not do the risky thing. He doesn't even want to. an advantage let alone like even if you like are empty and want the advantage again being

combative to maybe find an advantage to where she's about to find an idol so she she's going to be okay and obviously he feels safe so that's okay too I realize how like being collaborative it's beneficial for both of them because they both don't want to lose their vote in case they don't get back blah blah blah but I did not understand why he had to go back and not just tell them exactly what happened. I just thought that was a bit, that was just random and it seemed nothing. Like, why wouldn't he tell them? Everything. You have like the luxury of being fully honest and it's verifiable from MC. So you just have to be like, and so what if one of them does have a conversation and says, was there an advantage and what did you go for it? Like they're going

to know that he didn't tell the complete truth. Now it looks more suspicious when it really doesn't It just nothing snakey happened. Like, it gave us an opportunity of the advantage. We were scared to lose our votes. We mostly went for the bags. Then we looked for a bit. And then we thought, firstly, we probably won't find it. And we don't want to write out of time.

Secondly, we are straight up gassed, which is, I think, really what happened. So we just then finished the bags. And you can verify with MC, you know, like who I have no relationship with. I don't understand why they gave them such a physical challenge. Like, such a... a return of really demanding like and I know they finished it in heaps of time and MC's super fit and she probably did 80% of it or whatever but I just thought it at this point where they know they're absolutely starving and they are absolutely gassed anyway why they

I'll tell you why they did it because the winners are war they had to get what was it coconuts and Ethan had that beautiful thing about his cancer journey and then they thought we're going to make this a staple of every season and then they removed it Or was it, or was it, um, it was it, um, pieces of wood? Wasn't it pieces of wood? Oh, it was wood. Okay, sure. It was, was it, was it, was it, was it, anyway, I love winners of one.

Even I'm like, they really want to just recreate the Ethan thing. And they made it into sweat and, sweat or savvy every, you know, every season. And then they got away from that. And then, yeah. We brought it back. I was like, God, not this again. I was like, even Zon, you will pay for your crimes. Yeah.

That was such compelling TV to the producers. And like, because of Ethan, because Ethan's like, you know, 20-something year incredible casting. Like, we remember Ethan's on, we love Ethan and he has an incredible story and they're trying to recapture that magic. We don't have that magic again, but we do have as many, many sandbags. And that's what has happened. Yeah. And I think it's like, it's again, it's not good production to fully gas them, right?

Because what happens is he calls, he calls MC back and she's like, there's a lot of time. but like I'm exhausted. Like I think that it was like, she was like, just end it. I just want to sit down. And so instead of actually going to look for something, which maybe I assume is more about production once, they want them to spar, they want them to find an advantage.

Instead, it's like, even if I wanted to do something more anti-social, which again, this time is really doing, I'm too tired. Is that the TV? Even why. Yeah. When you're on the edge and you're not playing the game,

you do you, but in the game, let's have people have the energy, to play it to make decisions and anyway. They've given them like, you know, they could have sent them on the journey and given them like a treat, you know, like a chocolate bar each or a plate of fruit or I don't know, something fantastic to wheat

and then they had to do the bloody challenge. Like that would have been a bit more fun. Yeah, but yeah, you're all right. The only thing like the only thing Nate did wrong was to lie about it at all. It's not going to come back to bite him. But it was just a kind of thing where it's like you've been completely innocent.

like you have played by the rules you went out there for your tribe you didn't even want to you maintained your vote mc maintained her vote the worst thing you did was have a little bit of a conversation with someone from hina god forbid because we're at war a very polite war when no one will throw but like it's and it's fine you know and then i think just tell them about the advantage it would be it's so intricate it obviously reads as believable because it happened and you didn't get no one got the advantage like there's nothing here that's interesting to even tell them why lie but that was Nate. But we did find out that MC can burp the alphabet.

Yes. Thank God we know that. That was really important, Shannon. Come on. Hey, look. This is the kind of, this is, Sage probably likes that. I bet you she and Sage's comedy, I can tell you for a fact. All right.

So to get to next week, I've got the group. So we don't know what's happening. It could be like a mercatory thing. We do see in the next time on that you want and Stephen Arrad Keller with blue buffs on with the chickens. So Joanne is a Kelle, and he has a buff. So it's not murgatory. It could be three tribes and a swap.

It could be three tribes, but too go to tribal council and all vote together. We don't know what it is. So I don't want to spend too much time on it. But I will say, I mean, I don't know what I don't, I'm not going to be here next week to talk about it, actually. But I will say, I've asked for swaps, three tribes of four. If they're going to tribal council and in a tribe of four, that's not really, I don't think that's what I asked for.

it's not what I asked for it was not on my bloody wish list no no that would be because if you look at some of the groups so one of the groups is Alex Christina Sophie S yeah so um not to Sophie we know on the show and Nate so too Hina's and Alex who's been with Hina and Nate like that would suck for Nate like if Nate goes in a fall then I don't get too mad before I know what's happening but like I would hate to see that I'd hate to see like really I mean People get swapsed all the time. Sorry, did you say he's on there with MC? No, it's not MC. It's Christina, Saltine, Alex. So I think, I think, you know, and people get swap screwed, but if it is tribes of four,

then your chance of getting swapsed is that much higher because there's just no space. So it's a little bit concerning, and hopefully that's not what's happening. Hopefully it's combining groups, or maybe it's for a challenge and then they go back to camp and then merge. I don't know what it is.

I'm happy with them to just merge. Everyone's like, this will be good because it will be instead of murgatory. We're so over-mergatory. I'm like, why don't we do these things? Just merge. Just merge the people so they can go to tribal council. How many, six people have not been to tribal council?

Six people. So long. Have to vote. Yeah. And might still not get to tribal council after this, after this next episode. And then what? We're back, we're down to 11.

And we're down to 11. and no, and there are some people that haven't even been to tribal council yet. Like that is a shit season of survivor. That is not the way it should go. People say, this is why you set up the expectation. Because people are like, well, leaf is not this. I'm like, but it could be neither. It could be neither.

We could do nothing. Yes. Anyway, I know, and I know it's the critical because I've asked to swap. I wanted swaps. They gave me a swap to two tribes and it hasn't gone well. And now I'm just complaining, right? But I definitely don't want a swap to three tribes or four. I thought that was abundantly clear.

Yeah. But apparently it's what's happening and I couldn't be more disappointed about that. We'll see. We'll see. And we don't get too mad before it's happened. But I will be in Hawaii. So I won't be here to talk about it. But just no, I don't want that to happen.

So the other group we spoke about, Jawan, Sage, Stephen, and Shepard. Shannon, which would look really bad for Shannon, and would actually be quite earned. Yes. Because Sage won that battle for Stephen. Yes. Which will be kind of the emphasis of that group, I think. So Shannon looks like she's in a bad spot there, but that's earned because Shannon has, we've seen what's happened to get Shannon to a bad spot.

And then who's in the other group and the last group? So the last group is MC, Savannah, Rizzo and the Sophie we know. So that looks like for MC, but then MC will probably have an idol if they lose. And Rizzo has an idol. So what you'd hate to see. now I'm fan fiction. You don't even know if this is happening, but you'd hate for like Rizzo to play an idol and MC to play an idol and then like slow for you to go after going to everything. All this. Yeah, exactly. That would be awful. So we'll see. Whether it's a pair of

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Their values change and past performance may not be repeated. So should we get to the chizzy? Let's get to the chizzy. Take it away Jacob's Saga Weinstein and MC Cullough. One, two, three. One, one, one, one, three. One, two, three, let's get, let's get, it's getting kind of chisie. Three, two, one.

All right, so, do you want to go first or? No, you go first. You always let the guests go first. I, yeah, I don't know if I'm being too extreme. Do it. I'm kind of between it. Okay, I think I know. So you go, though.

Come on. I kind of want to know what you do before I make my decision. I'll give three to Nate. I came in kind of wanting to give two to Nate and I was going to give three to someone else, which we'll talk about. But I think that he approached the journey well. I think that he approached going on the journey well

with he and Savannah both did that. I think that Savannah said that he had the final call on Jason and Jawan, so he made the right call. And he wasn't going on about it half as much, you know, even that as Savannah. and it wasn't even worth the conversation. So I kind of feel like Nate is doing everything right. I'll give two to Sage.

I kind of gave me doing, giving three, but she hasn't been there yet. I need to see it play out. She hasn't been to tribal council. But I feel like she completely has, you know, from what we've seen, won the war with Shannon. She's breathed new life into her game.

From what she looked like a tough spot and was a tough spot. She's fully flipped. And she should flip from Luli. It's a fully right read. Like, look at Joanne. Like, Joanne hasn't had potential, but also doesn't want to and doesn't even know he knows he's on the bottom but he doesn't know how dire it is kind of he keeps saying he's

on the bottom but he's still so loyal yeah yeah and and sage knows the flip like she's read it and he's doing what's right for her game um and again like a lot of the other people I'm going to give chizzy points too like I could look at like a Nate a Savannah a Stephen like all these other people and say you should have thrown but I don't blame Sage for not throwing because that's not in that she's in a minority technically like she's just working a way in but I'll give her two points I'll give one point to Savannah she apparently released no Jason

and he really made that clear in the exit interviews and we did see it as well on the show I feel the beef with Joanne is too much for no real reason like I think that she should be cultivating Juwan like he really is trying and I feel like she's cutting off an option

for like emotional reasons that aren't worth it but at least he doesn't seem to know she feels that way so I'll give her a point I'll give her a point I'll give for discussing that Yeah. Okay. So I'm giving three to Sage. So I, yeah, I just, I just feel like she, I'm feeling like that she has clocked where she is, where she needs to be and where she, where she is now and where she needs to go to just quicker than all the others. I love that she's not complaining about being in a bad situation. She's making the most of her situation. And I'll give her three because of her that. that looked to camera when she was hugging Shannon was just gold, mate.

Well done. My two votes go to Nate and one goes to Joanne. Nate, because I think he did very well in the journey and for all the reasons that you gave. And Joanne, because of diddling up the rock drawer so that Jason didn't get a, he wasn't going to get to go in the journey. I think that's really smart, on the spot, really, really, really good. I just back to Nate, I just also really like him as a character. He's probably one of the most interesting characters out there at the moment,

and we need interesting characters to be watching on our screens. So that's where my votes like. Yeah, I'll give him a normal mention to Joanne for the rock rigging. I just, I couldn't convert it to a point because his placement is just so bad. Like, why are we even talking so much about him going home and it's such a no-brainer for him not to go home. And for sure, that's, that's on them. They should not be doing that.

But, like, if he's in that place socially, I can't reward it with points. Even though, like, I feel like, again, Ju-Wan makes good decisions from the bottom, like we saw, like, when he went on the journey and he did it for the tribe and stuff. But it's like, but still, people are just not viving with me socially, and that's the material of the game. You know, that's really the 99%.

Even if I like these little one-percenters where I'm like, that's a good thing, but the rest I'm concerned. So I think we know that if he hadn't rigged that rock draw that it could have been a potential split vote and that he potentially could have gone home. So, yeah, I totally, I totally get it. I mean, I'm not mad at the point at all. I think that on the basis of like, who did well in this episode to change their fate? And if we're looking at the chip you like, exactly. Perfect words. Like someone like Nate or Savannah, like they come in in a good spot, they leave in a good spot and like they play it well. Yeah. But, you know,

Juan's not in a good spot and he has to wear a lot of that. But he does things within that to help his chances and Sage did a lot of that. So that's why she got five points from us combined. I'll give an honorable mention to Stephen as well, because I feel like he clocked well in finding, in going with Sage over Shannon. And I feel like you agree. I 100% agree because, yeah, I agree. I am, I don't, I'm liking him more and more the fact that he and the fact that he then went to MC and then they went to Christina

and yeah yeah I love that kind of play because she Shannon was really appealing to Stephen Christina and Alex and she was working them hard yeah and they they went into it and I don't want to say they fell for it because again parts of that are true like I think she is trying to really connect

she tells tell apparently Christina about Rizzo's Idol. So it's not like they're being like fully duped, but on the basis of who do you go with and Sage and Shannon, sage can fully come with you. And Shannon is really strong. So Sage is the right choice.

And they were kind of blinded by parts of the personal connection with Shannon and parts of the strategic connection with Shannon that are valid. But Stephen is also getting fed that more than like I saw a scene of, I've not seen a lot of Sophie, but like Sophie or MC. It feels like Stephen was really doing that.

Stephen leads a lot of, I don't buy it. I don't like it. And he chooses Sage. And I think that's a really good choice. Because I think he's now got a new Heena member. And at the end of the day, numerically, they need that. Exactly.

Yeah, he's actually like, now that they've lost like a Jason, he gets over like he properly gets over Sage. And now that if they keep Alex, they might be at a six six at best. Yes. Yeah, at best. So that's something. And maybe then they take Joanne. Maybe then Sage can get Joanne over.

So there's something there. Like when you're on the bottom like that, you'll do bloody anything. So yeah. Yeah. So there's actually some potential. Even though obviously by voting out Jason, Oli put themselves in the best possible shot to have the numbers because they have, they have Al Juan still.

The hope would still be to have Sage. That's already six Uli. Then they have Sophie. Maybe Sophie can bring over Alex. So their hope for numbers is better. But Hina are still in the race. But then with Stephen, he really should have thrown

like he really should have thrown because if they take out Shannon and they can bring over Joanne and they keep Jason then they think they're going into a mergatory or merge that's like the whole numbers like that's everything exactly like I'm being hard on Stephen

for it because they win the challenge like Kelle I mean not Kela Hina the new, the old only on Hina lost the challenge but they weren't trying to win like it's so bad on all of them because it's so crucial numerically Like, this is everything. So, like, yes, Stephen lost a huge opportunity here.

He could have five heenas, possibly Alex, Sage, and possibly Juan. Like, they could be in a great spot. Take out Shannon. Yeah, keep chase, like, so many things. But because they win the challenge, I don't want to be harsher because no one was trying. Like, even the Uli's, like, I gave three points to Nate, one point to Savannah. They were like, this kind of worked out, didn't it? It was like, yeah, it did.

It did work out for you to lose the challenge. Maybe you should have tried to lose it. There's a word for that. you can actually do that so um Nate has gone up to 10 points so I'm doing this in my head but Sophie's on 15 points leading the way Sophie V yeah Alice is on 10 now Nate is on 10 Jake was on seven Savannah's now on five and Sage has got started her points and has gone up to five MC2 Rizzo 2 Shannon 2 and Stephen one I think that's right um interesting interesting we did we had this question I wanted to ask because we've been

ragging on the season for over an hour. Sam asks us, what can we get excited about for this season? And I want to end on a positive note. It's not a compliment sandwich because it's more like it's just one tiny little piece of bread on a lot of like negativity meat. So, but I think is anything you can get excited about for the season? I'm going to get excited about this sage and Shannon War. That's what I'm going to get excited about.

yeah i think for me what i what i hang my hat on is like the 46 pre-merge is really bad like this this pre-merge is maybe the worst of the new era the 46 is up there it was so bad and then the 46 post-merge is great i love and as a season i love 46 i'd recommend it to anyone i think it's a you know it's up there's one of the best new era seasons and it's a great survivor season because we don't know qualify um and you know five of the episode five was okay the first four episodes were a slog and then it was really good until the very end like until maria doesn't vote for charlie and you're like what until the last moment it's so true it's so so so true but is the casting as good sorry i'm not going to say anything next okay no no

no you're right is the potential there we knew the 46s had teeth right like cue and and venus and like, you know, Nami were at each other's throats. Exactly. I think, and it is quite, and I don't want to take away my exciting thing, but it is funny because, like, Yanu was a disaster tribe, and they were like at each other's strokes. Like, I feel like this Kelaire tribe have been not really at each other's. No, is it not.

Yeah. And then look at how much Nami hated each other. Like, that has not been true. Look at how petty the beef is, like, here. Like, it's really almost non-existent. Like, that's why I think that you're invested in Sage and Shannon, because it's real. Like, it's like, actually some heat, you know,

and we have it. really had that. It was, it definitely was heat in 46 that could have ignited and did. Is the heat here this season? No. No. But maybe it'll get great in other ways. You know what I mean? I'm just like the season is not over. That's how I feel. It's like if you had told me four episodes into 46 that I would recommend that season by the end of it to anyone. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. So that's what I hang my hat on. That's my excitement. I hope. I hope so. But Caroline, Thank you so much. Thank you for watching for us. Thank you for going through this. This was a fun chat at the very least. It was a really fun chat. I hope I didn't get too fired up too much. Yeah, sometimes people either. Yeah, didn't bring too much negativity because I love this show so much and I love talking to you about it. So thanks for giving me the opportunity to come on. This has been really fun. Yeah. Look, if people didn't want that, then they won't listen. If people want a placed event, we gave it, I think. So, yeah. And I think we gave good, like, we, we, we, we spoke about what we needed to speak to.

I don't think there was any stone left unturned here that we didn't really try to get to the nitty-gritty of. I mean, there weren't a lot of stones to rig. There weren't, but we got to the stones. Yeah. We've still spoken for an hour and 15 minutes. So, come on. A lot of that was about AUV world.

But, yeah, where can people find you? you're doing um i'm just on you can find me on instagram at my malicious or just search caroline cordis find me there great well you can find me at shannon gates um podcasting every week on guss and around with my husband peter talking about um everything in my head like after i first one that song was in my head for three days just thank you so much i wrote five years ago i wrote that theme song as a little Yeah. And it's just always in my head. That's just like, I write stupid little jingles all the time is what it is. And then I just, I publish this one as the theme song too. I'll. Maybe you've got another career in doing jingles for advertising agencies. Like, come on. I would need the ads to be mostly about my caps. Because I write things about my cats all the time. Just imagine that everything you're advertising is cats and you just go to jingles that. So it doesn't really matter what it is. It could be, lawn seed or dog food or whatever but you do a jingle to it and you just pretend it's about your cats yeah i want to kiss the lawn seed i just have would have to think about that because i'd have

genuinely so many so many jingles about my cats it's crazy um they inspire you so much we really really do um i also wrote like a proper song about them about the first moment i ever saw them and released just something for me that i yeah um these are the songs i write now this is what it's like to be in your 30s this is what it's like to be in the head of shen gates yeah this is what this is like this is not where taylor swift went but this is where i've got into in my songwriting journey is mostly dumb jingles and almost all content about my cats but um yeah so we're doing that gussing around talking about a lot of different things um yeah uh pregnancy journey has been a big one coming back to that quite a bit um and we're going to take a week off

and i'm taking a week off this so i'm not going to be here next week on survivor global because I'm going to be in Hawaii and then I'm going to be in San Francisco for the RATP event. Yeah, I'm super excited about that. A lot of people from this cast, very nice people will probably be there. A lot of players, I think it's going to be a huge event of this egg. So incredibly excited about that. But then I'll be back in two weeks. So for week six, I'm missing that.

Week seven, I'm coming back with Eden. Eden will be my guest. We'll talk about week six and seven. But we'll do that a bit later because I'm going to be coming back on like the Sunday. And then we'll probably podcast like the Monday. and then, so we'll get into it in like two and a half weeks from now. That's what's happening.

At Shannon Gates, all of that. Thank you so much, Caroline. Always such a fun time to chat with you. That was fun. Thanks so much, everyone. I will see you all next time. Thank you to our team behind the scenes. Thank you, Caroline.

Thank you to everyone for listening. And I will see you then. Bye. State, New Zealand, Gimendez. One million pounds. Million, Euron,

Euron. Tribe Spurian. Trive Spurion. Shishita. Try, Spoke. The adventure of a life-dress in