RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: The 2-1-1 Prisoner’s Dilemma | Season 48 Episode 5 with Matthew Haywood

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss speaks to Survivor UK's Matthew Haywood about episode 5 of Survivor 48. The pair discuss the plurality vote trajectory of this season, the 2-1-1 Prisoner's Dilemma, the big idol move and the emotional moments from the episode, plus they give their predictions for mergatory.

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1 million rubles. Tribal spoke. Tribal spoke. Tribal spoke. The adventure of a lifetime. The adventure of a lifetime. The adventure of a lifetime. Hello everyone and welcome to RGP's coverage of Survivor 48 for Survivor Global.

I'm your host Shannon Guss here to finish off the pre-merge for episode 5, talk about another crazy vote, another plurality vote, the first 2-1-1 in US survivor history. We've had many an international survivor. This is the first time it's ever happened in the US. It can't happen in the post-mortem because we have fire. So we got it done here in this season that refuses to just form a majority and vote people out. And there's some parts of that

and there's complicated parts of that. And I'm here to talk about it with someone who I love chatting survival with. He's a new fan, but he also won the show in the UK. So that gives him like super fan credit for life. It is a great Matthew Haywood. Matthew Haywood. Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait for this. I love chatting and yeah, I'm a bit. I'm a survivor obsessed at the minute. I'm watching Australia, watching US and yeah, I'm loving it. Yeah, it's been it's been fun. It's very, very different in the US compared to Australia. And like every week I come into like I should I'm going to do the US podcast.

Like I'll watch the episode, it'll be chill. You know, this is like my fourth pod, literally my fourth podcast today. And it's always headache inducing. Every week I'm like, I'm knee deep in prison dilemmas. I do enjoy, as I've said before, finding prison dilemmas out in the wild, which the season keeps on giving me.

But the rules I kind of work for better this week. But there's a lot, Matthew, every week and this week we're gonna delve into it to extremes. Absolutely, well, when you were probably podcasting a few hours ago, I was up at like 4 a.m. UK time, I was watching the episodes and I think I needed to take a breather, it was quite exhausting

watching this US Survivor, I think it's so fast paced compared to like the UK season I was on and like the Australian Survivor. While I'm loving it, I think it brings a fast paced compared to like the UK cities and I was on and like the Australian survivor. But I'm loving it. I think it brings a lot to talk about. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, you were just watching the episodes today at 4 a.m. instead of skydiving. So at least it's a more chill day. Are you going skydiving after this podcast by chance? Not today. It's my cousin's 18th. So tonight it's going to be like cousin's party, chill. So nothing too extreme today like last time.

Yeah, I'm disappointed. But we did get messages that people were happy you survived skydiving to make it through to this next podcast. So people are happy that you made it. As long as I keep surviving to the next podcast, that's kind of my life, my life goal. That's the true survivor that you get to the next podcast

with all these extreme sports and adventures that you have. Absolutely. I think that's kind of what my mom and dad have to look out for every year. Just is Matthew still alive today? Is he survived today? Well, I feel bad for them if that's the case. But Matthew, so it's a lot. Are you enjoying the season? What are your thoughts on because this is your second US Survivor season and it's so much. We've had comments like, imagine if this was like two weeks ago. Imagine if this was your third episode of Survivor ever. And while you were on the show and won it,

for you, for you as Survivor, that's not super far from the truth. And it really like throws you in the deep end. So is it something that you're enjoying keeping pace with? Or are you like, has it like, is there an accessibility level of just insanity of like the finicky rules and stuff for someone who comes in, you know, one or two seasons in and like, this is insane and too much. Yeah, I'm so open with it though. So I watch an episode and I'll be like, so what is that? What is that?

And then I'll look through forums and stuff and then I'll read the things. I'll be like, oh, I like that. I like that. Yeah, I get this. So I'm kind of just learning with it as well. Although I have one Survivor, this is just a US Survivor, UK Survivor.

It's so different. So no, I'm enjoying it. I'm kind of like watching and learning at the same time. And there's stuff that's similar, stuff that's different. I'm just kind of, yeah, learning as I different. So I'm enjoying it. I'm kind of like watching and learning at the same time and there's stuff that's similar, stuff that's different. I'm just kind of learning as I go, but I'm enjoying it. And I think I'm always happy to be like, to learn as I go. I never act to be an expert in anything. I like to just see how it goes.

Well, I love how much you are like, yeah, investing and like reading about everything. I mean, this season is crazy. As calling it the season, at least the pre-emerge of plurality votes to just recap where we were through this pre-emerge. The first vote, that was fine. They voted out Steph, that was an actual majority.

The second vote where Kevin went was a three, one in a five person vote. It was meant to be two concurrent, two, one, one. That was meant to be the first two, one, one. We're kind of like final destination, the first two, one, one in US five history. Say didn't realize that she was piling onto a Kevin vote. She thought it was a different two one one where maybe she was going to be the target of a two one one.

If anyway, Justin went, maybe Mary would go to one one. Then Justin and Cedric thought they were two one one and Kevin out of the game. But she powered on made it three one. But still three people of the five were blindsided like say was blindsided by that. Kevin was clearly blindsided. Mary didn't know what was happening. So again, a majority did not technically rule the day. It was the two people.

Then obviously at the vote where Justin goes, Stedrick unanimously deciding with Say, not a majority. Then last week we had the two winning with their advantages over three, not a majority. And this week we have, we don't know if Mitch was included. If Mitch was included, that's actually a majority to be three out of these five people, or it literally was two of five. And we don't know if Mitch was just splitting and we can talk about it, but that is crazy. It's been said Cedric was voted for six people in five episodes. It is a lot of fun. Yeah. Is it good?

In many ways. I mean, I like getting into the prison dilemmas that we'll get into. I like, I like getting into, you know, votes that are so small that there's so much meaning behind each of them where everyone can be their own swing voter. We can talk about it from so many different ways. I feel upset at the expense of the Justins and the Biancos who go on the same journey, are forced to lose the same vote. Camilla, ironically, who got the vote would have been okay

even without her vote with Carl Idol. But yeah, I mean, it's at their expense. Sometimes it's getting way too finicky, as we've said. Variety can be nice, scope can be nice. But yeah, we definitely, I mean, it's at their expense. Sometimes it's getting like way too finicky, as we've said, variety can be nice, scope can be nice. But yeah, we definitely, I think, find the fun in it. We find the conversation, but it is definitely very, very extreme. Yeah, would you agree with that? Yeah, definitely.

I just think though, what I don't get about the US survivors, why do they always take vote to it? Why are we always losing votes? Wonderful question. That's what I don't like. I don't like that. Because it just brings so many different problems and it does ruin people's games, which is a bit,

I don't know, like, it stops people from maybe, everyone wants to go on saliva to play, but then it maybe, it doesn't incentivize, incentivize? Insensitize. Yeah. It doesn't incentivize you to play. It doesn't make you want to play.

Like I've seen Bianca's exit interview and like a little clip of it on Twitter with Mike. And yeah, just like she was saying, she wanted to go on the journey because it's going on a journey, but she also didn't want to, but then she, it's just, I don't know, it doesn't help the players. Yeah, I mean, well definitely.

I mean, like Bianca, again, like her tribe chose to go on the journey, which was at least more agency than Justin had in losing his vote. But again, her tribe choose her to go on the journey because they trust her. Like that should be a positive thing. But instead, she loses out for it and she loses all of her agency here. Like they didn't want to get rid of her at any point. They could have gotten rid of her, even just Cedric and Chrissy,

who end up being on the two and want to get rid of her. If they're committed to taking out Bianca, we could talk about it. They could 2-2-1 her out of the game either way. Whether she votes for Say with Mitch, they could 2-1-1 her because at that point it would be Say, it would be 2 votes Say, 2 vote Bianca, and then if they vote out Bianca over Say, then that's the choice that even Chrissy would be making at that point. If she wanted Bianca out the most, if she's voting for Chrissy with Seydin, then Cedric at that point and Mitch would vote out Bianca over Chrissy. So if they ever wanted her out, they would take her out. It's because she goes from being a swing vote, actually pits two sides against each other

where they're both relying on her to not having the power to do that and she loses her vote. And I feel bad for her that that's what it comes to because, you know, that's not necessarily fun. And I think that a lot of the times I love two one ones, like the number one two one one stat and this this is fun in a different way. We'll talk through the prison dilemma. But usually it's fun because what happens is in a four person vote, it's like everyone is voting. There's, you know, three votes on one, and then someone screwed themselves. Someone could have taken it to a two-two and didn't. Someone split their vote stupidly on a two-one-one, and that's why they go home.

That's usually the fun of it, that your vote could have so much meaning to take you to a tie, but you stupidly get blindsided, split your vote, take it in the wrong direction, and then two people come over the top and vote you out. That's usually the fun. That's clearly not why Bianca goes.

Like this is a different situation where she goes because her vote is lost, her agency is lost. She can't be relied on as a vote that people want and need and then becomes collateral damage when people feel they have no other option, even though there were other options we can talk about, but people feel limited without her number and then she becomes expendable to them.

Yeah. And I think what are the chances that Cedric has been to all these tribal councils so far and he's, someone's told him about losing the vote and that they don't have a vote and he's voted them out. And someone's not told him that they've lost the vote and he's still voted them out. So he's been in this kind of the same dilemma twice.

And I think, yeah, I think it's quite mad. I think Cedric's a very interesting character and I think he's been like in the same dilemma twice. And I think, yeah, I think it's quite mad. I think Cedric's a very interesting character and I think he's been like in the thick of it. And yeah, there's a lot to talk about Cedric and his dynamics with him. Let's talk about Cedric because I'm going to praise Cedric a little bit more than I think the internet has. I don't think this was amazing. We can talk through all of his many decisions because really at different points, he has a decision to send home Sey and Chrissy possibly, and Bianca. Like he really has a choice of three people in the tribe.

And I just, at a point, I just really want to credit the power that Cedric has had. Like Sey has been to four tribal councils and has been blindsided at like this one, at the Kevin blindside, and even half like at the Justin blindside. Like she's been blindsided at two and a, um, at the Kevin blindside and even half like at the Justin blindside, like she's been blindsided at two and a half or four tribal councils. And even then I'm like, it's been a lot, you know, like good for you. Like even, and Cedric has

had power and knowledge and control at all four. So at a point you have to credit Cedric for the fact that Bianca does come to him over anyone with the fact that Justin did want to work with them, say he wanted to work with them more than anyone that he's been in all these groups. That's the first thing I'm gonna do to praise Cedric, because I think a lot of people questions his decisions. What did you think about the move he was making here? He prioritizes Say and then goes to take out Bianca, which really saves Say of anyone.

What did you think about the moves he was making here? I think it's really interesting from Cedric's point of view. So he's been through this game from the start right up till now with Say. And I think Say has seen every move that Cedric's made. And I think it probably doesn't do Say, it probably doesn't give Say an advantage if Say goes pre-emerge, but then maybe she's in the jury,

she's seen the moves. Yeah, interesting. She'll be there and then she can back up like all the moves he's made so far. But she's probably a good shield as well to Cedric, I think. Like she not blew up again, but she was very vocal at the reward challenge about the croissants. I know she doesn't rub up well with Mary, but she was very vocal and people have heard, and Cedric will have seen that,

and he'll have seen that people are a bit frustrated with how she was speaking. And maybe he sees her as a shield and, and yeah. And he's also saved her before as well, so like. Saved her from himself though. Yeah, yeah, true. Yeah, yeah, he had to do it. But I don't know, I think it's an interesting dynamic between the two because.

You can you could I think you can use it, but you could also cut it and she's seen all the moves he's made, and I think she'd be good in the jury for Cedric's case. That's a really interesting point. I mean, she still probably has a little while to go before she gets to a jury. And honestly, TBD, if she makes it, considering how many people she's offended, Bianca said in her exits that Lagi all wouldn't work with her. They've never even met her.

Um, they obviously Chrissy doesn't like her. That might be fever not liking her. She has had her own issues on Vula as well. So she might not make it there. She might be a good Mercenary boot, which we can talk through as we look through to next week, but I do think that the shield capacity is interesting. I think from a jury perspective, um, it is one to look at if she's not too mad. And then I wonder about coming back to this tribe. Now, that is a big if. You would

assume you're going to merge next time. Again, the last time six people were voted out of the new era, which would be next week, in the pre-merge was in 41. A long, long time ago. There's also, to be fair, other injuries that have happened. So they haven't had an injury. They might think it could be extended. They don't usually swap. So that's a bit, um, a bit different, although again, in 45, when they did swap, they would merge next week, but assuming you're going to not merge next week, that's a big if maybe. And if you're being cautious on not merging next week, I do think

they're the weakest tribe. And I do think getting rid of say is not a great spot for Cedric. Like if say goes there, then Chrissy and Mitch have all the control. And we see Mitch has been close to Bianca. Cedric's been close to Mitch, but I feel like Cedric maybe could go there. Whereas if you get rid of Bianca, then you come back to a 2-2, where you could cut Se. And even more, if you get rid of Chrissy, which we'll talk about, then you come back to your 2-1, 1 with you and Se in control, and Mitch and Bianca, where you have all the control. So I think coming back to the group, you mean you might and you don't want to rely on regulatory despite the precedent

being quite high and it ends up happening. But like I think that that is a possibility to keeping Say for me, which makes, you know, keeping Say a fine decision for me personally. Yeah, I agree. And I think definitely the shield. I get what you mean. We might be quite far off a jury at the moment, but yeah, keeping her as shield, good idea. With the fact that Lager don't even, like, will never work with her, they've never met her. That's quite a mad concept. And yeah, I think he's got a lot of control, Cedric, now coming back. But

I like the idea of him maybe getting rid of Chrissy and then Cedric can say having that two, one, one. I like that. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about whether he could have done that. Cause I do want to about say, I think the question anyone would ask is she a shield or an anchor? Like you want to like,

and this was like true of like Rome last season with Genevieve. It's like, if you're going to be a shield, which Genevieve recovered from very well, but she was a, you know, she did that very well. Or is it going to be like, I don't even want to be associated with Say. That might be the issue. But I think coming back to the 211 with Say, or even again, having her as Flora to cut next time, if you go to tribal is the option. So then it becomes, should he have cut Chrissy?

Like let's talk through this 211 and how it's pure form, it's a prison dilemma. And then there are intricacies that make it a different prison dilemma for both Chrissy and Cedric because Chrissy and Cedric are both in this position where again, if they switch their vote, like at the point where they're going to the other person and saying we should vote for Bianca and trying to split the other pair's vote, their two could technically try and come over the top and win on a different two-1-1, right? Like if Cedric votes for Say, Chrissy will go home, 2-1-1. So that's a threat that Chrissy made herself vulnerable to.

And if now that Cedric has voted for Bianca, if Chrissy votes with Mitch for Say, Say will go home 2-1-1 because they've split their two votes. So that becomes a prisoner's dilemma of what they could do. So can I talk you through this prison dilemma of Yeah, of the the just on its pure prison dilemma, it like, the broadest, this is a pure prison dilemma, because like, take it from Cedric's point of view, and then you can just flip it. If he again, if he betrays and she collaborates, he goes out crazy, that's like, say that's first prize and he wins on that two one one. If they both collaborate, that second, then they what happens, what we saw happens, and that's

that they vote Bianca out on that two one one. If they both betray each other, it goes to a two two. Now, if you imagine that two two is just threatening, but like it's like more threatening than just Bianca going home, but like less threatening than just outright losing the day for either of them. Then that's like the betray where like Chrissy doesn't necessarily want to be like in a two-two where she could be voted for technically, even though she wouldn't have to pick a rock. Cedric might have to pick a rock. So just looking at like the threat of that two-two broadly, but there are intricacies that will make this different. And then if he votes for Bianca and splits his vote and then they vote for Say, then

Say will go home two to one to one and he loses. And you can flip that. So that's like the pure prisoners dilemma and then there are intricacies. Is that making sense? It is making sense. I feel like I'm getting a masterclass in US Survivor. I'm loving it. I'm like, I'm here for it. I love that. And also, yeah, I think I worked out whether they made the right move or the wrong move through pure game theory and math. So I think it did work out. But okay, so it's different though, for Cedric and Chrissy.

And here is why. There's a few different reasons. For Cedric, firstly, he's not a target. So the stakes actually are a lot lower for Cedric. That's the first thing that makes it different. The second thing is that if it goes to a 2-2, it does feel like Say would go home. So again, that actually makes the stakes lower again. So basically what it is for him is if he betrays, then Chrissy might go home if he's betrayed back. Or if they collaborate, Chrissy would go home. If they betray back, it feels like Say would go home. So it's like Chrissy option, if he's betrayed back or if they collaborate, Chrissy would go home. If they betray back, it feels like Say would go home.

So it's like Chrissy option if he betrays or Say option. If he collaborates, then Bianca will go home if they collaborate back or if they betray, Say will go home. So the stakes are lower where it's like Chrissy or Say, depending on what he does, if that's the betray option or Bianca or Say. So it's like either way, if they betray, Se will probably go home so he can take the shot. So the stakes are lower for him because he can't go home and again, they can kind of

get their way if they vote for Se, which we can talk about. But for him, that makes the stakes lower. And another thing that I think makes the stakes lower is between Chrissy and Bianca as targets, there are probably pros and cons either way. Like again, if Chrissy goes home, he comes back to the two one one, that's good. He can work with Bianca, that's good. But if Bianca goes, it feels like he has connections

to the Siva tribe, which is pretty good. And again, if they go to tribal council, he say would be next and not him. So the stakes are kind of lower where this is kind of fine for me either way. I probably lean to betraying Chrissy. That's what the math would say, but the stakes are lower enough where I feel like either target was okay. Like how do you feel about it for him if he could in taking out Bianca as a target for him or Chrissy as a target for him? I think what he's doing is, and what you've said is,

he's chose the lower risk option, but I think, either way, I think Cedric's kind of in a good position, but he's just chose the easiest option, like the lowest risk option and it worked. And the fact that Bianca come up to Cedric and told him that he doesn't have a earned, she didn't have a vote, it's kind of, he puts a lot of power in Cedric's hands as well.

And I think, yeah, he's in the driver's seat and he made the right decision for himself, but he could have made all the decisions that worked for him. It was all in Cedric's hands really. Yeah, it definitely was. And like the more I think about it, the more I think maybe Chrissy staying is a better option for him than Bianca.

Because even though it doesn't go back to the 2-1-1, that connection through to Siva, who have not lost a member yet, and maybe going to be quite powerful, might be where he wants to go. And we don't necessarily know. I mean, he works with Chrissy here to make this move. I don't know how social collaborative that was between them. It was literally collaboration in the Prison's Dilemma.

But I don't know if it's how much like we both don't want to go to a two two, right? So let's instead come over the top and do this thing. Like I don't know if it was more like using leverage or if it was more social, it probably was social. So if he can work with Chrissy and Siva, like that's probably quite good for him. And again, whatever, like whatever he does, if they choose a word to say, say will probably go. So the stakes of like him losing is very low stakes because they actually have the power in that, in that world. And him winning is like a more even choice between Chrissy and Bianca for me. So the

more I talk about it, the more I'm like, okay, on this lower stakes decision for Cedric. And then again, I'm higher on keeping Seir round, as we said, jury potential possibly as a shield, as the 2-1-1 potential, I really think he needs to keep Seir round for a possible another round of the pre-merge. Once he's decided that, I think he can go either way. So I'm okay with the way that he went in taking out Bianca. Yeah, he's definitely got options going forward now. And I think, yeah, with the OG Siva Drive, if he wants to go in there with them guys, he can.

And I think I don't know how much he knows, but like Bianca, obviously just she lost the vote and then she lost the co-sist allied, Pumice. So it's kind of like. There are options either way. Yeah. So I think, I think, I think Coutain Bianca, there's not really anyone you could go with. I think she lost Thomas, but then there's more options with the Steve and Tramp. Yeah. So again, so again, I think,

I actually think that that ends up being fine because of the kind of intricacies in the prison dilemma compared to Chrissy. Now Chrissy's prison dilemma, which kind of shifts whether it's actually Prisoners' Dilemma for both of them, but Chrissy's Dilemma is interesting because firstly, her stakes are much, much higher for a couple of different reasons. She's the target. She left herself vulnerable to going home. Now, maybe she's reading Cedric correctly, that they're happy to just like cut Bianca now, and it's just like the easier thing to do where they think they're going to come back

to emerge or he knows he's going to be in with Siva. Maybe she's reading that he's correctly like that he's choosing Siva for all the reasons that we've given, but she did technically open herself up to being betrayed here and being sent home if that's what he chose to do and we also see some merit in keeping Bianca and sending her out. So she opened her own self to going home, not just like an ally possibly like Cedric did. And again, like Cedric is going to have either way. The reason that Cedric is going to possibly lose say either way is that if she chooses to vote for say here, say almost definitely goes because the 2-2 tie, say probably goes when Cedric probably has to swap rather than go to rocks to vote for say. It means that again, if she chooses say here, it doesn't matter what Cedric does. It's either a 2-2 if he betrays back and say goes, or they 2-1-1 say out

of the game. So she had a lot of power to take out say and say is a way better target for her than Bianca. Like they said they really like Bianca. She doesn't like say at all. So I think in the fact that she opened herself up to extreme risk of going and opened herself up to risk for a worse target for her, that's why I think that this was very much a bad decision. I mean, she technically goes to the 2-2. She can try to trust Cedric to take out Se next time, but she does it. She could come back to a 2-1-1 with people she actually wants to work with and not say. And for not doing that, she opened herself up to possibly getting 2-1-1 out of the game. So I think that math has shown that this was not the right thing for Chrissy.

She should have stuck strong on the say vote and either taken it to a 2-2 or just 2-1-1 say out of the game a different way. Yeah, I agree. I think she had. Yeah. Do you think she's made the wrong decision there then? So she made the wrong decision. Yeah, I mean, she opened herself up. Imagine if Cedric went to her and was like, we should vote for Bianca. And she was like, okay. And then she did. And then he was like, actually, we can vote out Chris.

You have all the sway here and then votes out Chris. And she goes home on that. That would be the stupid 2-1-1 that we talk about in other times where your vote, splitting your one vote, is what sent you home. But we've ended up with the boring 2-1-1. Well, there's no boring 2-1-1, really. But I've ended up being kind of like the boring 211. Well there's no boring 211 really. I mean it was kind of boring in Australian 5 of 2018 because Seanan couldn't win FIRE. That's a whole different story but no I mean I think that that would have been really interesting for him. That would have been Cedric tricking her into splitting her vote and then coming over the top. That would have been actually more interesting. The collaborative 211 is the boring 211. Him betraying her there would have been fascinating all of the top. That would have been actually more interesting. The collaborative 2-1-1 is the boring 2-1-1. Him betraying her there would have been fascinating all of the months. But yeah, I think she really opened herself up to risk here. She was clearly reading it

correctly for credit to her, but she opened herself up to risk and she got at a much worse target. She wants to work with Bianca and say, although Bianca wasn't going to go with them, but she seemed open to all connections. I feel like that could play out in the future, whereas she and Seiya are openly feuding at a point. Yeah. And I think it gives Cedric and Seiya a bit of power going forward. And yeah, it actually hasn't really helped herself in that situation. Yeah. I really think so. I think the dynamics are just so like, because with the three tribes, what I find is because the numbers are so small, every vote is just so important. The so the differences are so small.

And I find that really fascinating. I think because I'm used to watching the survivors with the bigger tribes. Yeah, these little tribes and then half of them don't have votes. And then one of them has got an idol like it's mad dynamic. Yeah, well, 100 percent. Like, I really do feel really bad for Bianca who had both sides playing against each other here, which is the crazy thing is that they were going to, I mean, maybe Mitch and Chrissy thought they had Cedric as well, but like really she went from being

the swing vote to the target just through a total lack of agency because she didn't have a vote. And that makes even a prisoner's dilemma very hard to swallow here. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a prisoner who's got nothing, no hands to fight with, you know what I mean? Hands typing in the back. Yeah. She's never getting out of that one.

It was really, really painful. Where do you stand on Say and Chrissy's feud? I mean, Say is feuding with everyone. Like, say again, Laggy, I've never met her and have decided not to work with her. She's feuding with, well, how did you think of firstly, feuding with Mary on the mat and then coming back to the whole like fruit gate of it all?

Like, where do you see what Say is doing socially? Because you were someone who, like one of my favorite things from your deep dive is you were like, I just would never kind of put anyone off. Like I'd eat less if I needed to. I would sleep in the worst place if I needed to. I would just do that. And I was like, it's crazy that you've worked this out

and people so much older than you haven't. Say is like the anti-Matthew in that way, where she's like, I want my kiwi. So as a social expert, how do you see what Say is doing socially in some of these interactions with even people on other tribes? Social expert, I like the sound of it. I've got all my notes here.

I love it. You come in with the social game, you come in with the math and that and then between the two of us will be unstoppable. That's what we need, social, math, together. Yeah, that's what I have. But no, honestly, when I listen to, say, have like a little go at Mary on the mat, that's what made me think, it's something I would never do because it's like, you have to think to yourself, is what I'm about to say now worth,

is it worth doing this so publicly? It's like, anything you do publicly, you're open to scrutiny for everyone on all the tribes. Why would you do that? Like in my season of Survivor UK, Lee was very open, very competitive, very always like saying stuff to the other tribes. And like, it's blown your own game.

And it's like, you don't need to say stuff. Like sometimes just keep your mouth shut. And that's the best option. And less can be more instead of making a scene. But yeah, I think St. Mary, I don't know why I hate each of us so much, but it's mad that it went so far. I think even, just yeah, keep mouth shut, don't say anything unless it's more on the map.

Especially on the map, in front of other people, it's mad. Yeah, especially because I feel like Mary was answering a really generic question from Jeff, where he's like, are you excited? And she was like, yeah. And maybe she spoke a little bit too much about the food, but it was like such a kind of like broad question. Um, it was like really nothing. And then like, obviously, you know, she comes back to that and she upsets people on her own tribe who also have lost with her. But I will say, I'm going to say this. I agree with her in her feud with Chrissy. Should she say

it? No, obviously you don't say it. You don't have to say like every, maybe that's why her name is Say because she says everything that she's thinking and that's been there the whole time. But I think that I agree with her when she's like, I need a break and I want some fruit. And Chrissy's like, I've never sat out of a challenge. It's like, you've never been to tribal council

at that point. She was going to tribal council every night. They didn't have fire for like 10 days. Yeah, she deserves a break more than anyone. It's true. And she deserves fruits. Now, people don't necessarily get what they deserve on survival. That's still going to upset people, but objectively say was correct. I want to put that out there. Yeah, no, I agree with that as well. It's very easy to not go into tribal council. And just because she's sat out one challenge does not mean that she, like, she can't have a break. She's been out every night at tribal council and just because she's sat out one challenge does not mean that she can't have a break.

She's been out every night at tribal council, up again, no fire. Challenge, tribal council, challenge, tribal council. She's had it pretty rough. Is there a record as well for a tribe going to tribal council in a row? Well, yes. Apart from today, it is. No, we get that a lot actually. Most seasons there's a disaster tribe who goes to tribal

council like a hell of a lot because they're like engineering disaster tribes who go to tribal council like all the time and then they don't have fire so they keep going more and then they can't like, you know, get anything together and it just compounds. So no, it's a record since season 45. So three seasons, but no, but even eveno actually, to be fair, no, that was just a medevac. It's a two season, it's a two season record, Matt. That's what we're at. This is what it's like in Survivor US.

Yes. That's the disaster tribes are a really big part of it. So she having been a part of that, I will say it helps you get cheesy points, you know, going into these tribal councils and it helps you with confessionals. She's broken the confessional record to be fair, it's longer episodes, but she has 42 confessionals. So she's broken the five episode confessional record at every point. The next highest in the season is Kyle with 24 and she has 18 more. She has almost double and he's dead. 42 in five episodes is mad for anything, isn't it? Well, not for Australian survivor, but yeah, for US survivor it's unheard of, so literally it's historic.

So that is crazy. If you go into tribal council all the time, there is a positive thing if you survive in it. I know maybe you're losing a lot of tribe mates, but I think it's a positive thing if you keep going to tribal council and you keep surviving, getting a lot of conventionals, but I think it's a positive thing if you keep going to tribal council and you keep surviving, getting a lot of conventionals, you're still in the game. I like the idea. I used to like going to tribal council sometimes, you know, especially at the start, in the pre-emerge of the UK, when I was on Calaton. I used to not, I didn't mind tribal council sometimes,

because if you're socially, if you're placed well enough, it's all right. Yeah, well, we have seen people do really well from disaster tribes. Like you come in as less of a threat and you come in with possible options that emerge where you look at like something maybe like a SIVA as like this big block, which we'll talk about for them. So there are pros and cons, but the con is definitely, you know, having to fight for your life in that first week,

maybe needing a bit of a break and a kiwi fruit. And I think that that's acceptable. And maybe people should have empathy to that. But the thing is as well, it's like, if Chrissy doesn't like it, then it's bad social play. You know, like you don't want to put people off, even if you, I think you have the moral high ground. I think that's right.

And you really don't want to keep going to tribal councils and losing your vote and then getting screwed out of the game. Like, I think, you know, going to tribal council, if you're a good player to like help your skills and whatever, that could be a good thing. But when there's so much diminished agency in the new era, it really just feels like at a point you're opening yourself up to a game of chance. So like,

I don't think that being in the disaster tribe is something I would want, although it has worked out for the people who survive it. But like I would rather be like in it to win it, to get to the merging. And some people have not been to tribal council yet and look at how Cedric and Say have fought for their lives. Yeah. And you're looking at some people not going, and then some people have been to tribal council yet and luckily how Cedric and Say have fought for their lives. Yeah and you're looking yeah some people not going then some people have been to tribal council with like four people where so yeah it's it is a game of chance it is sometimes a game of chance if someone does have a vote someone's got an idol shot in the dark the shot in the dark

I think that's in my concept as well so it's one in six chance So there's one scroll in six that says save. Yeah. What are the chances? Six, one in six. One in six, yeah, that is the chance. But that is, put your whole game on that, it's crazy. Yeah, and you're two seasons in and you've literally won Survivor and it's still, it's this complicated.

Talking about where the people get screwed over and went wrong, would you say anywhere that Bianca went wrong? Like what did she do here to take agency over the fact that, to be fair, she had diminished agency, but do you think she wasn't wrong to tell Cedric about her lost vote? Was that on her? Well, I think she's instantly then given Cedric power, but I don't know what reason though. I don't know why she would actually, why does Cedric need to know this? I think she's maybe trying to build a bit of,

like a bit of a good rapport between them both, thinking that the trust will help. But you kind of get why Cedric would look at that and think, oh well, Bianca does have a vote. Take, like it just makes Cedric's job maybe easier, knowing that. But then we see Cedric, someone's told him that, um, that the daughter

vote, you vote him out. Someone doesn't tell him you vote him out. Yeah. I dunno. I think, I think she tried. It was kind of going down fighting, trying. Yeah. It's, it's a tough one. I think for her, she was trying, she was thinking about coming back and having to manage everyone being angry. And the first issue I have with that is like, get back on the beach. Like at the point where you're back on the beach to a probable merge, like that is future Bianca's problem.

Like I think it's, it's a running issue. I kind of see also in Australian cyber, a lot of this at the moment where it's like people operating from the wrong leverage point, like, yeah, you want to have the luxury of protecting your future game. Of course you do. But if you literally don't know if you will survive tonight and you don't even have a vote, get through tonight and then worry about it in three hours from now. And you'll be in a lucky position to worry about it because you'll be in the game to worry about it. And I think that she's got future planning from a position that she didn't have. Like, yeah, just hoping that Cedric

will flip on say on the revote when there's a two two, which seemed likely to happen and she's not one of the options, that was her best bet. So I think that that was a mistake. And I also think this is a big thing in Australia's environment at the moment. Stop telling people things right before you go to tribal council. This is the kind of thing where everyone who says it is like, I did it so I could control the situation. And every single time we feed the person feels like they are trying to be controlled and they don't like that. And they will then lash out to try and assert their own control by either blowing up your spot or finding a new plan as Cedric does here. It's obvious you're doing it in self interest. It's obvious you're doing it for control.

Like the fact that you're doing it then to have control is so clear that people don't want you to have control and they fight against it. Even if you're, even if they're looking at gift horse in the mouth and you're actually doing them a favor, which just happened in Australian Survivor, they will try to assert their agency when they feel like put upon right before tribal council. So I feel like he probably felt like you're not cornering me into this. And honestly, if she'd given him more time, he might have been like, OK, maybe we'll 2-1-1 Chrissie out. You know, like maybe he would have a felt more trust and be like thought through the very complicated, cozy prisoner's dilemma that I've already gone through for him.

But in the moment, it's just like she doesn't have a vote. I feel scared. I feel scared for Say. Okay, at the point where I'm prioritizing Say, which we're saying is fine for him, I can't think of another thing to get out. Chrissy, I have diminished trust with Bianca. She's trying to control me and I need to just exploit that vulnerability. So I think that there's a lack of trust

and yet a lack of time for him to actually come to a plan that may be better for him, but certainly be better for her and might actually use their relationship positively rather than it feeling like an attack in that moment. We see this all the time in current survival where people are doing it right before and it's just so transparent for me.

And I think with the lack of time for Cedric to think, the easiest thing to do is to probably not go with Bianca. So she can't just put herself in the foot there, but I also get why Bianca maybe would tell him it's she's scrambling, she's trying to think of anything, probably not the right, the best timing just before tribal council. And I think Cedric even says something like she's come to me just before tribal council, like it's just a bit of a mess. And it is Cedric even says something like, she's come to me just before tribal council. Like it's just a bit of a mess. And it is because then you second guess it and he's just gonna do the easiest thing for him

in that situation. 100%. And just like that does feel like you just are like then like completely shifted into a corner where you have to do like the expendable thing and she feels super expendable and she's so vulnerable at that point. Rather than like, I'm coming to you so we can like, do something together where you can actually

help me. And maybe at that point, if he can trust her and really feel that he has that trust with her and really has the time and space to think about it, maybe then you go to Chrissy and like, we should vote for Beyonce, put their votes in two, one, one over the top. Like maybe there's an option for him there, but it does feel like the easiest thing in the moment is just like, we'll just, we'll just vote for her because it's probably going to be either her or say getting to Chrissie option is harder and more difficult to think about and more definitely more difficult to do. So at that point, well, I mean, he does get Chrissie to vote for Bianca, but he would have to then think, come over the top and vote for her.

So maybe it's a similar like effort level, but like thought level and like thinking through all the permutations as we've just done for 30 minutes, he didn't have that. And maybe had he had the day to think about it and more trust with her, like maybe he would have come to that. And maybe like, it seemed like his order of who he wanted to keep might have been like say first. And once he like was really trying to keep say it seems like, okay, well now I have to vote out Bianca and like Chrissy last. If he could have felt a way to like maybe take out Chrissy, which was saying could be

fine for him to keep her. But if he felt like there was a way he could have taken her out, like maybe he could have felt a way to like maybe take out Chrissie, which we're saying could be fine for him to keep her. But if he felt like there was a way he could have taken her out, like maybe he would have come to that and chosen Bianca over Chrissie, but he just wasn't going to over say. Yeah, true. And I think it was interesting what you say about come back to camp messy.

Like instead of not coming back to camp at all, which has happened to Bianca, come back to the camp in a mess. As long as you're still in the game, that's the best thing. But obviously Bianca's been trying to save a relationship or try to build on something. If she does come back, just come back and resolve that tomorrow. You've got another day in the game. Yeah, especially there's like this real big chance you can emerge as well. So it's like you have a

new complete life in the game. Like really just feels like you need to come back. This is again, very, very topical in Australian Survivor at the moment as well, but whether people should just like take the easier thing and then not future plan as much if they don't, if they can't afford to. So I definitely think I think it cornered Say and I think that she misjudged how much of like Say would be his priority because she's at an exit that she was telling him like, Say has come for you. She knows that it's been, you know, dramatic with Vula, but maybe doesn't understand the level that Vula will still show up to each other, that Cedric will continue to prioritize, say, when, you know, the chips are down. And I feel like maybe she

she misjudged that connection between Cedric and Cedric. Yeah, the Cedric and Cedric dynamic is it's funny because, like, he single-handedly saved her twice. He kept her in the game twice. It'll be interesting to see where it goes and how he uses her later on in the game and how it ends up probably falling apart for them both together. Yeah.

Again, one of the times he did save her from himself, but this time he actually went out of his way to save Say. When Bianca's coming to him, she saves going home and he changes it to actively save Say. And I hope that she kind of sees that connection and maybe it even buys back some goodwill that he's lost fairly over the time with her. So it's a very interesting, very interesting relationship. What did you think about people are saying people are joking that this vindicates Justin

because Justin didn't tell Cedric about his vote. It was a big reason possibly maybe that he went home. Cedric didn't trust him as much, but then Bianca told Cedric about her, like her lack of vote. And then he sent her home and people are like, well, you know, you can't win. Like how did you see him doing this? I just think though,

the tribal council where Justin did go home was the craziest tribal council I've ever seen. Yeah. Just kind of what was going on. Same, almost. And we have to give Cedric some sort of thing of, I understand maybe emotions are high at the time. His head was probably everywhere. He's got, Say pitched him quite well at the time.

She was quite passionate in there. I trusted you. I trusted you with everything. He's a liar. He's a liar. Say was really like giving it to him in the moment in the tribal council. So all that has to kind of be accepted. Yeah, but I just think, yeah, I don't think he should have saved Bianca just because she told

him about that having a vote, even though there's just, I think it's just unfortunate for Justin that Cedric went against him. But I do think that Say spoke well in that tribal council when Justin went home and she kind of played on his emotions. Cedric as well does seem like a very respectable, he's a surgeon, he's an emotional guy, he's a family man. I don't know, I think Say really done well by saving herself then. I completely agree with you.

I think that Justin went much more for how Say out argued him than him not telling about the vote. Now again, that's something she very much used in that argument. So maybe it's hard to separate that, but I feel like she was probably arguing a lot more about their relationship where he'd referred to her as a daughter in this game.

We see that priority here again, like there's clearly a connection there. I feel like she just really used that argument. And I actually really feel like as funny as the jokes are, this is such a different situation because I feel like Justin had been Cedric's priority until he was out argued. He was Cedric's priority. So I didn't see a reason not to tell Cedric because then it becomes, I don't have a vote. It wasn't my fault. It wasn't Bianca's fault either, but you need to protect me and like shore us up. And again, there was almost no way Justin could go if Cedric just stayed with him. So just like keeping that trust

and just like keeping Cedric on track was fine. Like that's like, I'm telling you this so that you maintain me because I'm your priority, which he had been. Whereas Bianca gave him the gap to exploit for his actual priority, which was safe. So that's, I think the difference is that Justin would have been going to him as a priority

and Bianca went to him to target his priority and say, and then he saw the gap to just like, again, fall back on a Bianca vote. So I think I get the jokes, but I do think it is quite different. As funny as it is that Cedric has been faced with this twice in the four tribal councils that he's been to thus far. I tell you, twice it's the same thing, but like you were saying, very different kinds of circumstances with who and the situations he was in with them both.

Yeah. I also wanted to ask, do you think that Mitch was in on this? So the two options are that he could, we didn't see him even go to Chrissy, right? So that's crazy from an editing perspective. I wonder if we're getting the flashback starting off the next episode. I know they were talking about this on Knowitalls, but yeah, we didn't even see him go to Chrissy, so we don't know how the plan was formed. Mitch in the moment, it's hard to tell if he was shocked because he's so focused in his kind Mitch way on comforting Bianca. It was hard to tell if he was not in on the split. And again, even if he's not in, is that just because Cedric just didn't have time to tell Mitch? Was it literally just functional that he went to Chrissy?

Did he only want to go to Chrissy when we've seen him be closer with Mitch? Or was Mitch included but he was in on a split? But it's very clear that Bianca doesn't have an idol for me clearly in the way that she's acting in very desperate ways. I don't know if you would try to read that, but I don't think they necessarily know where the laggy idol is. If Bianca would have told them about Sahr, maybe throw Sahr in the bus. But again, can mean, I don't think they necessarily know where the Lagi Idol is, if Bianca would have told them about Sara, maybe

throw Sara in the bus. But again, can you even believe that? So it feels like she doesn't have an idol and the split only takes it to a one to one anyway, where the two Bianca votes on negated and say is voted for Chrissy and now Mitch has voted for say and then Cedric has to turn on her anyway. It's not even a great split. So I don't know that I know that Mitch was splitting here because I don't think it makes a lot

of sense. But then if you don't know if that's intentional either, like I don't know if they just don't have time to tell him. I agree. I think he wasn't involved in the split, but it wasn't like a big intentional thing of keep me out. And I think with his vote going towards say that kind of proves with all the drama of Say not being very well liked and stuff, that vote on Say maybe makes me think it's just a vote that is plucked out on Say. I vote for Say because that's why. I think it proves, him voting for Say, that he wasn't part of the split.

Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it's not a great, it's not a great split on an idol that seems non-existent. So yeah, I would think we're going to get a lot of this information early on. It would have been cool to get the flashback in the moment, but it's fine. But we're just having to guess. I guess I hope that he was left out for like the first pure 2-1-1. It's going to feel upsetting if the first 2-1-1 in US Olympic history was actually just a split vote. That's really going to take a lot of the fun out of it. And that's also, well, to be fair, I would say that that's going to take like everything out of the prison dilemma, but not really, because if you go

into them being like, you guys split your vote, like you're still doing the same thing functionally where you can come over the top. So yeah, then there would be a whole different thing about maybe we shouldn't split the vote. That's the thing as well is that then they would be leaving themselves, if Mitch is in on it, and then they're leaving themselves open to possibly. Yeah. Then, then Chrissy going home, they're splitting their, their two votes.

That feels crazy. That feels like if I was Chrissy and they were splitting the vote, I would be like, we'll vote for Bianca. You vote for Se. You know, and I don't know if he's going to do that. But if he's not going to do that, then maybe that's the issue. you know, and they're like, I don't know if he's going to do that, but if he's not going to do that, then maybe that's the issue, you know, like, yeah. There isn't actually like enough votes. There isn't enough votes to like split every time in Survivor US. Yeah.

There's like three votes. It's so important. Maybe you don't want to split it every time. Yeah, like literally splitting your vote could change like everything like tenfold. Yeah. Well, we just talked about like how risky it was for Chrissy to do the two one one and that she could have gone home.fold. Yeah, well, we just talked about how risky it was for Chrissy to do the two, one, one, and that she could have gone home.

So if she's actively, if they have a three-person majority and she's actively splitting her vote, again, on a really bad split, but they have to come back to a one-to-one anyway on a probable non-idle, just thinking about it in the moment, that's not a good move. Don't do that.

And then stick tight to Mitch is probably, yeah, probably a good thing for the fact that she could have literally been two one oneed out of the game herself for either being in on two one one without Mitch or for actively splitting from Mitch in a plan he was in on. Either way, it put her at extreme risk. And I don't think the split was worth the squeeze on that one.

Yeah, I agree. And then imagine splitting and then getting yourself forward out of the game for a needless split. That has happened though. That's happened on bigger numbers, but you'd hate to see it done when you literally had two numbers and you're like, we're going to do a little one vote split. Like I love a split, but like you can't be splitting every time. No, honestly, I feel like when I watch Survivor, I don't think I could deal with getting like, I know I haven't been voted out ever,

but I can deal with getting voted out by like a twist or like, yeah, that is a humble break there, a twist or like something to like my own mistake. Like when I nearly messed up with that lobster pot, we'll come back at that. I would have been voted out due to my own mistake. And I don't think I'd have been able to live with myself for something like that. something that can be changed.

You know, I mean, that's why you got to play a near perfect game and then win. That's the only way to play survivor just to keep the detail. You have to do. Yeah. Yeah, humble brag for sure. But imagine the flex if Zedric got them in on a plan, but got them to split their vote on a split that was like, again, not super, definitely not essential and also very minimally functional if that got them to split their vote but being like if you take it

to the 1-1 I'll vote with you and then 2-1-1 Chrissy out of the game now that actually would mean that he would like he'd be like Dr Evil like people are talking about him like he's a sweet father and surgeon but like it's possible that he would be or he'd be like a king gorge level, yeah, like literally like killer surgeon. That's what I'm gonna be, yeah. Yeah, you know how they say that, like surgery halfway through looks like murder? Yeah, you could imagine Cedric, you know, a big knife just, you know what I mean?

Yeah. I think he's funny. I think he's a funny character because even at the tribal council when Justin went home, when Sayre was pitching to him and it was all emotional, he did look just a bit like in shock and confused. It was just like, I don't think he knew what he was going to do or what he wanted to do until he made the decision at the end. He was quite, yeah, he was put on the spot. But I like him. I think he's kind of, you get why he's that father figure. He's like a friendly, I get on with him, I think. Yeah, he's been in so much power,

but he's not reveling in it. It's kind of like Joe, who we'll talk about now, who also is like, everyone loves me, but I hate that because I'm gonna have to betray people. And it's like, he's cursed by his own power. Like everyone has liked and wanted to work with Cedric. If you look at his tribes, this is why he's had so much power.

Like Kevin wanted to work with him. Justin clearly wanted to work with him. Say and wanted to work with Cedric. If you look at his tribes, this is why he's had so much power. Like Kevin wanted to work with him. Justin clearly wanted to work with him. Say wanted to work with him. So that was the majority that he had like total control on that tribe. And then in this tribe, Chrissy clearly did work with him. Mitch has wanted to work with him. We saw that really great connection between them. Bianca told him more than anyone about her lack of vote and say they've had the issues, but have they been close in the past. That's pretty good. Like that's why he's had this power. But again, in using it, some people might think it's more murder than surgery. Maybe that's just, again, what it looks like, because we haven't seen how this turns out. But I think that some of it does make sense.

And at least you have to credit the fact that he's in a position like that. And I don't even think a decision today like this is really that bad. It's probably just fine. It probably was fine. Yeah. And I think as well, sometimes, like you said, having too much, having too much trust and too many people relying on you can lead to a downfall. So I think it's about finding, you don't want that, you want to hold back, especially for a character like Joe. Joe's already big physical threat, big, like clearly a lovely guy, like, is it a bit too much though? Do you want all that kind of all the eyes on you? Because I don't think I would. Yeah, well that's a great segue to talking about

this moment with Eva which is making, I don't know what's happening in the UK, but in Australia it's making headlines here. The last time US Survivor made headlines in Australia was probably around survivor game changes for worse reasons than this. This is at least for positive reasons. And it's crazy how much of a moment this was for Eva. What did you think about this moment, obviously, where Eva has the meltdown and Joe comforts her like this was a historic moment for the show. It was quite like, it was like theatre, like what was happening.

It was quite,, it was like theatre, like what was happening. It was quite, it was mad. And I think like the music, the moment and the kind of, it was a perfect moment. We'd obviously seen in previous episodes and what we knew the situation and the fact that all kind of come and it was perfect how it worked. And I think Eva said something like, when Eva was struggling with the challenge, she was getting frustrated and she shouted, why can't I do this? Why can't I do this? And I think we went on, in that couple of minutes,

we went on a journey with Eva through being neurodiverse kind of thing. And we got to see the levels of it, of like the, why can't I do this? The frustration and the tears, so that emotion, and then the overcoming of it, and then the smiles at the end. And it was kind of of it was a lovely journey

With Joe as well and it was like Joe Thinks about his family's kids and it was just beautiful in the moment Yeah Yeah, it was a really it was a really emotional moment the thing that got me more than anything and like even on my rewatch today I can't not cry watching this Joe was amazing amazing, but Joe is like an incredible human. Obviously it speaks for itself. Joe's her number one ally. Joe's this like huge bond that she has.

But Star, before even she gave the idol, we'll talk about everything with Star and how this plays out strategically, but the way Star responded to Eva, who has bit her ops, like they have been at war pretty much. We've seen no love loss between the two of them. And the way she was holding Eva and encouraging her and saying like,

she was saying, your dad will be proud of you. And when she came back to camp, like the incredible speech she gave her about how she'll inspire the next generation, that that came from Star and opened up a connection between the two of them was so powerful to me. And I really, I love Star by the way. Like I just, I feel like people don't get her

and that she's putting people off, but I really like her because I feel like there's no, there's no malice. Like she's just out there trying to like play the game. And the way she responded to Eva with so much compassion and empathy, like, oh, I just, I love that so much. Yeah, I think Star, this was a great episode for Star.

And I think this is, I really, what I liked about the situation is she was championing, she was championing, championing, I can't speak. She was championing Eva. Championing? Yeah, I can't even, that's a very hard word. I don't think I can say it. Championing, championing.

Is it championing? I think it's championing. Championing. Yeah, she was championing, championing Eva. And Eva, and like, it kind of brings out a connection. As much as it was a nice emotional moment at the time, that's obviously brought them to a connection, especially everything to do with the idol as well,

how it kind of worked. Given the idol to Eva is interesting, risky, but good, but also public. Does it help? I don't know. Me, I'm not sure. I think it's sad. Yes or no, what this very bold move to give Eva the idol.

It's a big move. It's public. Yeah. She's on the hill. Like she'll have to die on that hill. She's done it. It was public. Yeah.

I think good idea. Eva, everyone kind of was rallying around Eva. It was good. It was a, there was a lot of emotion due to her, like the, she called it an episode that she had in the challenge. So I think, yeah, it was probably the right thing to do. She's made an ally in Eva.

Eva is very like an emotional based player as well. Especially in that moment, yeah. Yeah, so I think she'll definitely remember what Star's done and that'll work with her down the line. But yeah, I think it'll be up for social currency going forward, Star's. But I like Star as well, I think great episode. Yeah, well this is a podcast of hot takes because I feel like people are coming very low on Cedric,

like what are you doing? Dr. Evil here, and then people have like, Star, don't give away the idol. And like we're coming very low on Cedric, like what are you doing? Dr. Evil here and then people have like, Star, don't give away the idol. And like, we're kind of higher on Cedric and I think I'm going to agree with you that I don't hate this from Star. It definitely was a lot. I think in the moment at first, I just, again, I love the connection, but I actually thought this was really good from both Eva and Star because for Star, you have a public idol that everyone knows about. Like, again, like Eva was an enemy and she already knew about it and she was already telling people about it. I don't know how much Starr knew that that was public,

but I've been told by Kieran from South Africa, he had a great point that if something's ever, you know, a little bit out there, you just assume it's fully out there. Like you at that point can't control the flow of information. So by telling everyone, he reclaims the information, gets it to a point where they should actually get her vote

back if they would ever go to a tribal council and solve the idol and the Bewear advantage and actually get the idol. And then you're going to have this public idol, which is going to make you a target. So you're going to have to burn it pretty much immediately. Does she get more utility out of really connecting with Eva in this really big moment that is again, super, super memorable. It's like the kind of thing that like you remember the way people treat you in your worst moments. I think about that all the time. Like when I had like grandparents pass away or my cat or you know, like when the

people that were kind about it, like you really remember that. And I feel like in a moment like this, which had, you know, big downs and big highs for Eva, I think you remember a gesture that big in such a big moment. And does she get more out of like connecting with Eva, who she's been very disconnected from, over having to probably burn it at Murgatory? Probably, probably yes. I actually think this was okay. Yeah, I agree.

And I think given that the public, like you said, it's a public idol, that Starr couldn't even get anyway. So at the time before Eva opened it, Starr couldn't even get anyway. So at the time, before Eva opened it, Star didn't have a vote. So now Star's got the vote back. She's given the Public Idol to Eva, whereas it's maybe good not to hold the Public Idol,

but to give it to someone else, you could probably, the Idol could still be used, you know, or Eva. I give you the Public Idol, remember? Can you help me? So she's not being in possession of the public idol, but kind of owning it in Eva's pocket is nice. Yeah, I agree.

Because I think that Eva needs to use it quickly. It has to be used soon, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And for the group, she even says this is for us. And for whatever group, whether that's old Laggy or this new group that's never been to tribal council that has no real connections, like whatever. She has to use it for her and Star in some like macro way to form a group or just burn

it. So it could help Star anyway. And I think that that's what Eva needs to do. I think that Eva responds really well to Star, even when Star gives that information, which Eva knew already, because she'd been told by Joe, but she's like, oh, you're such a good liar. And I really actually want to credit Eva for the way this was played. Like at first, when everything happened,

when she has an episode, which is so far beyond the game, but when she has an episode, I'm thinking, this is unfortunate for the gameplay because it's probably pretty unfortunate for Joe and it's not great to out their relationship. And also for both of them, that story is gonna be hard to overcome later in the game from a jury perspective.

But I think within how unfortunate parts of that are, unfortunate and unavoidable, she does as well as she possibly can with it. She gives context that she has to give in explaining her story. And again, it actually opens up these connections where people understand her better, where Star understands her better

and she can connect with people better. So she probably could have put up a little bit of a fight in accepting the idol, just a little bit to begin with, but I think taking it to use it communally, to use it like for Star or in a group, to build a group very, very quickly is fine. And I think the fact that out of this difficult situation she actually makes a bridge is a huge gap and makes a connection is really, really good. And I think in the moment explaining her story was very necessary. In some ways, there are things that are going to be difficult to overcome from a game perspective,

but I think she did really well with this, especially given like the hurdles it presents. Absolutely. And I think there's something so crazy from Eva opening up. She's actually opened up Star as well because we've seen that the truce wasn't there before that. And credit to Eva who said prior to this episode, she struggles to spot liars and she shouldn't know when people are lying to her and like the social cues and stuff.

She played it so well, even though she knew about the idol and so she played a little shocked about the idol and stuff. She played they were all shocked about the like the star of the idol. So yeah Eva opened up also opened up Star and Eva's ended up with an idol in her pocket due to that. So it's credit to Eva where credit's due. Yeah I completely agree. I would love to look ahead to where Murgatory goes, knowing that they're going to be merging next week. Do you know why it's called Murgatory, by the way?

Have you been? Wait, can I guess? This is a mixture of Purgatory and Merge. Yes, that's good. From context clues, you got it. That's because they aren't technically merged, but they're all on the same beach. And it's like basically a merge. And from the first time they did that, they started calling it a Murgatory. And then people fight over who claimed the term and what people call it. Well, people call it actually Murgatory.

I do the hard G and I refuse to- I like Murgatory. I like Murgatory. Well, you're in the majority. I'm just full of hot takes like all the time. This whole podcast is hot takes. It's Murgatory Forever. It's better that way. That attaches to the purgatory part rather than the merch part. And I just think it sounds better. I love to be in the majority.

You know what I mean? Keep myself in the majority and you're always OK. Well, not this season where a majority again has decided to vote one time. Yeah, in fact, right? I've begun. You want to be in the minority at the moment. OK, so who let's look ahead at who could go, because usually with Murgatore, it feels like they often go for like easy consensus

groups like Rome last season. And they often go that way because half the people are only half the people are vulnerable. So people kind of get desperate. You want to make sure your allies are safe. Like people tend to pile on targets. And I think there's a few good candidates. We talked about Sey. Sey. People aren't loving Sey.

If she's vulnerable and there aren't other targets available. Again, Lagi don't want to work with her. Seva, Chrissy has it out for her. Is Mary protecting her? Maybe that would actually be incredible to watch. I really love their journey. But is Cedric protecting her? Maybe he's done it multiple times. But I don't know that that will be enough.

I think that if there aren't other options, I think, say, could be in trouble after playing more survivor in a couple of weeks and most people will play in a lifetime. Yeah, definitely. And I think that's the boring. I feel I feel so boring saying that SAIL be the the Mergetory Boot. But if you look at everyone that's left, SAIL probably is the common, she'll be the common target.

But no, I mean, I'm glad to see Cedric try and save her again. And then if Mary tries saving her, well, that'd be, I would not hold my breath on that happening, actually. But then I do have another option who I think actually could be a priority in front of say, and that is Charity, who also has a lot of enemies, seemingly her entire starting tribe, now Eva as well. I think Charity could really be this Murgatory boot if she's vulnerable, it will depend obviously

on like who wins what. But we've seen David say he wants to get rid of her. I was like, that feels a little bit too early for him to do it at the swap. He wanted to do it immediately. They just haven't got tribal council. But yeah, I feel like this is the time. Like if the rest of SEVA want to move forward and they haven't lost a member yet and they want to maybe seem a little bit less scary, losing a charity,

I think could really, you know, lessen that threat level. And they all have a lot of other options to keep doing well. It might be a little bit. It might be like it might feel like fever should like hunker down and win because it's six severs and seven non severs left for Luggies and three rulers. And Mitch has a block of vote, which is the only advantage and stars such Eva's idol in the game right now.

But getting into a six six is tricky tricky, like how is that going? And then you even if you would win that somehow you'd still come back to the 6-6. I feel like and they don't like charity, like I feel like you would be going to war for a group you don't really want, but you can kind of like lose the battle quote unquote on your own terms, possibly be less threatening. No one really wants to work with charity anyway and then maybe they think less about you if it's like five, four, three, and not six, three, three or something where you're just kind of like, you know it.

Yeah, that extra person is a big gap in the sixth. Yeah. Yeah. And I think sacrificing one of the own, charity probably is the one that they would. Definitely. Sacrifice. Yeah.

No, that's a good shout to be fair. Good shout. Charity, I feel like I haven't seen loads of charity. Am I wrong in saying that? It hasn't been in the world. Well, if you haven't got a Good shout. Charity, I feel like I haven't seen loads of charity. Am I wrong in saying that? It hasn't been loads. Well, you haven't got a tribal council. Yeah, so I feel like I barely know charity, but yeah, I could see that happening.

Yeah. I just feel like the one thing we get is that people just don't feel great about it. Mitch likes her. Mitch is, by the way, more well-suited to these tribal challenges than anyone I've pretty much ever seen in my life. You see the way he nails, it's crazy.

Yeah. He's done amazing. No, he nails, like it's crazy. Yeah. He's done amazing. No, he has. I really like me. I think he's, he's got a lot to give. I think he's here for a long time in the game. I can see him going far. He might be the only person who's trying to save charity.

So I feel like she could be a possible consensus. Like, how do you see, like, where do you see everyone else? Who else are you liking by the way? Cause we haven't even spoken about New Vula or what I'm calling New La, which is Cam see, like, where do you see everyone else? Who else are you liking, by the way? Because we haven't even spoken about New Vula or what I'm calling New La, which is Camilla, Kyle, Joe and Shaheen, who also have an incredible scene in this episode that was so educational and also just amazing.

I love all four of them. And by the way, fun fact about them, in a secret scene, Camilla said she likes them more than old Siva. That's how bonded this war become after being at tribal council voting against each other last episode. So that's also very different an old Siva. That's how bonded this war become after being at tribal council voting against each other last episode. So that's also very different for the Siva-Lagi quote unquote

war. This group actually are prioritizing each other over that possible quote unquote war. That's my, I really like Camilla. I think Camilla, I like Kyle as well. I think great, great move in episode four that they've done together. I think really they played that perfectly. And I really like how Camilla in the confessional, she was emotional. And I love seeing that side to players as well. I love seeing the kind of emotional side, not public, not too public, like in the confessional. And yeah, Camilla's great, Kyle's great. And so them four are liking each other then. They're liking as a whole. They're liking each other.

Well, I mean, we could even see in the episode like how bonded they were over that like pastry discussion. But yeah, in the secret scene, she even said, I don't know if she was kind of kidding, but she was like, I like them more than Siva. And she was in a great spot on Siva. She was in a majority. And even then, and it seemed like Siva

were really gonna win the day. They were so communal. They shared all their advantages. She did that as well. It seemed like Siva were really gonna win the day. They were so communal. They shared all their advantages. She did that as well. It seemed like they were all just really not charity. I'm having a charity. It's like really close tribe. And she's now saying that she possibly will prioritize this group before.

That's great. That's what so that's how good Camilla is. She's kind of coming to this tribe. They're really good move to kind of get themselves off the bottom to now in a four that, like the California Girls Alliance, was they've ended up losing the, was it the extra vote that Thomas had?

They've lost an extra vote. Or was it the extra vote? Well, you know, he had a vote to steal. So they've lost the vote steal and an ally, and then Camilla and Kyle have ended up being in now a solid four with these people that were voting against them. So credit to Camilla's social game. Yeah, credit to all of them.

Credit to Joe and Shaheen who again were coming for them last episode and being like kind of arrogant around thinking they had all the power, they lost the power and now they've bonded so much with them. Again, will Joe and Eva's clear connection cause issues there? Like we aren't hearing Joe saying that this is more of a priority to him than like Eva, for example. But yeah, I do really wonder where this will go from this. I think because I really also really like this floor.

But I think it's a credit to all of them to come back from a divisive tribal council and just be like, they were like, we don't want to vote anyone one of us out. We like each other so much. And just to see them win that challenge, because they so badly wanted to move through the merch together. Like that was another emotional moment in this episode for me. There was a lot of emotions going on. No, it's mad. But I do think, no, you're so right. Not just credit to Camilla, credit to Sahin and Joe and everyone everyone because it's so easy to come back I think and play on emotion, the vote didn't go their way, hold the grudge and you see so many players do it and it doesn't work in the favour and just kind of right move on forget about it

and now they're our best friends so where could this go this is good I like seeing Forget about it. And now they're all best friends. So where could this go? This is good. I like seeing kind of people who can jump over hurdles. It's about adapting in Survivor. I think adaptation is so important in the game. Yeah, my one question about this is that

they're still pulling off the gambit where Carl and Camilla aren't so close apparently. And like Carl's even like using the fact that like, oh, I knew people went through my bag to be like, you know, you chipped me off. Like, this was really on you guys, you made a mistake here. And then that's, I mean, so interesting for me,

because they voted together, they couldn't even afford, because they were trying to take it to the three-three in case the art didn't hit. They couldn't even afford for like, Camilla to throw a vote on Carl, who was gonna be immune. So they had to vote together, and they're still trying to do that. My one question is like,

could anyone in SEVA ever out to them that they've been close this whole time? because they are a four who apparently love each other and have this clearly like beyond the game connection and the conversations that they've had, but like also they're still lying to them. Like Camilla and Kyle are still lying to Joe and Shaheen about how close they've been this whole time and like even what their move was last time, like Joe and Shaheen still don't really know what happened with that. I feel like they feel like Carl just played an idol

rather than it was like Carl and Camilla really like did this vote together and it was like a whole gambit that they're still continuing to pull off. I think the way they've played it, they've played it smart enough that it won't come back to bite them, how they've played their friendship. I think, yeah, it's not too dramatic and big

and they're just downplaying it and downplaying the connection and just sticking with that's perfect. And I think, yeah, I do. I love that kind of, that little move. And I think, what's your thought on going through someone's bag in Survivor? I think it's okay.

I mean, I'm also like fine with most things. Like if it's in the rules, I'm okay with it. I think players tend to feel badly about it because it's like your one thing, your one bit of privacy. Yeah, as someone who's never experienced that, I'm like, do whatever you, don't hate the play, hate the game.

If it's in the rules, then you could do it for me. Yeah, I'm not too keen on going through the bag, but I found it hilarious that it went through the bag, still couldn't find it, and it was in there, and it still ended up working for them. you know so yeah now Camilla and Kyle I'm liking that duo. Bag searching hasn't made its way to the UK yet to be fair it was like one season deep and people were like don't even make any moves so I don't think bag searching, not you but others. Bag searching caused problems in? You imagine? In the survival UK.

But when- People would have quit. Yeah, probably. When I didn't lock the lobster pod, when Nathan found my idol that was in the lobster pod, I was thinking to myself, like, because I thought I was going to be going home. I thought, I need to get that idol off Nathan,

just throw it into the sea or something, get rid of it. No one will ever know. But yeah, like you said, people are so loyal in the UK, like, you know, like, loyalty based, they will not, if you're ratcheting someone's bag, that is a crime in the UK. Yeah, fair enough. Well, I think I'm okay with it because I'm like, you know, lie, cheat, lie, cheat, cheat, listen to me, lie, cheat and steal. I'm a full podcast deep, did I ever mention that today? Yeah, well, I think what you're saying is correct in that the way Colin Camilla have played the separation between them, if, I think what you're saying is correct in that the way Karl and Camilla have played the separation between them,

if they were like, we hated each other, then that would be a very active lie. It is still a little bit of a white lie. They are lying by at least omission and they're definitely downplaying the relationship, but it might be harder to get out that. Like if a Siva person is ever feeling desperate and kind of wanting to break up this four,

if they end up becoming the power four, it might be harder to blow that up on like, they were actually really close. It's like, yeah, but they also seem to like each other. Maybe that's what it was. Maybe it's really hard to quantify relationships, you know? And I think when it's, like you kind of said, when it's not, I hate this person, I love this person,

when it is just in the middle ground kind of, they get on, they're friends, there's nothing to really tell. So nobody from the OJ SEVA tribe will be able to really say anything. Cause like you said, oh yeah, they get on. Oh yeah, they don't seem too close. They're not too, it's just a nice middle work together.

Don't want to show that we care too much about each other. I like it. Yeah. SEVA have come like done well in the swap because they were swapped to a minority on every tribe and haven't lost a member. And if anything have actually picked up possible allies where we see that Mary really likes David, Eva really likes David, Sa might kind of come with that now, I don't know the relationship today. Everyone seems to like David. Cedric, we've

seen connect with Mitch. We know like even they gave up the ongoing, wanted to work with Mitch. We see that obviously Cedric's worked with Chrissie here. We see this connection obviously between Carl and Camilla, Joe and Shaheen. There's a lot of options for Siva. I really am putting my money on someone from Siva winning this game for me. Yeah, true.

Yeah, they've got the numbers. David, he really likes milk. We found that out in this episode. Well, he's talking about milk all the time. That's been like one of his major storylines. I love milk too. Chocolate milk. Yeah.

I was, that was one of my questions. Do you like milk? I'm not really like it. I like it with cereal. I like it in a cup of tea. Not really by itself. Yeah. I mean, firstly, I love tea.

I'm British in that way. I have a lot of tea. I love milk. Yeah. You know, I take my vitamins at night with milk, not water. You take them with milk? I think my dad drinks milk at night. I don't know. I'm not really like a milk guy. I do like oat milk and stuff.

I like fancy milk, like in my coffees now. Oat milk, coconut milk, if I'm feeling sweet. But yeah, we'll see what happens. But I'll drink a tea, dash of milk. Yes, obviously. But I and a lot of sugar again, I'm very unhealthy. But I started doing it recently. Well, not recently, probably it's been months now, but I started being like, I don't want to take my vitamins with water.

And then I started taking them just a little bit of milk. And now I just do it every night to take my vitamins with milk. David, call me. Let's talk about milk. It's I agree with you. Chocolate milk, strawberry milk, regular milk. Yes. Water.

That is something about strawberry milk, flavored milk. Unreal. Yes. Do you have this in Australia? We have like farms where you go to the farm, you get a glass bottle, you put the glass bottle into the machine and fresh farm milk comes out flavored blueberry muffin,

strawberry, honestly, incredible. When you come to the UJ, you have to try fresh, beautiful, flavored milk. Unreal. I don't like blueberry muffin. Is there a different option that I could have? Blueberry muffin, they do cream egg flavour, they do Biscoff, honestly. I don't think it's fresh farming if it's Biscoff flavour. No, I think there is maybe a few additives.

Yeah, I think there maybe has to. I don't think there are cows doing that. I mean, I'm not like in farming, but yeah, okay fine. I'm really glad I'm coming to the UK. Oh my God. How exciting. You just. Yeah. Yeah.

100%. I mean, I'm going to be missing three weeks of late game 48. God only knows how many prisons dilemmas I will miss in those weeks. But when I miss those podcasts, everyone can know I'm drinking. Biscoff milk straight from the farm. Exactly. Right from the cow. Yeah.

That'd be good. If I show me milk discussions, I'm also gonna miss in those three weeks. It's genuinely sad to think about. I know, true. Who are you looking at now? Like if you had to put money on a winner, who's your winner pick at the moment?

Maybe Star. Star? Star? Maybe, maybe Star, maybe Camilla. They're the two that I'm liking. I really like Star and the more this episode's going on, I like Star even more. And I just think, you said it right, nobody gets her. Yeah. And I think I've started to get her. Yeah, you've started to get her. Yeah. And I think I've started to get her. Yeah, you've started to get her.

I've started to get her. Yeah, she's a star. I've got, honestly, maybe Camilla. I like Camilla. I like Camilla. I want Camilla, I think, so far, with what I've seen. Yeah, my Asian wool star is a... I like the funky little move.

The move from last week. That's the move that you, with her and Kyle. That was the move you liked? Or from Star? No, I'm just being kind of... Oh, from Star. Oh, sorry. Sorry. With Camilla, I like the move with Kyle and kind of how it was played to perfection. And I just think Camilla, yeah,

I think we've seen a lot of good stuff from her in the episode, a lot of like out of game stuff, emotions. Yeah, I'm not sure. I find it hard to like read and edit. I think I got, it's Survival 47, I said Rachel at the start. And I got that one right. Incredible.

I picked Rachel when I was on the podcast. I think I'd just seen that one. Did you? She was just so, yeah, I said it on the podcast actually. We'd have to run the tapes. But like, yeah, I really, I seen it in Rachel early on. So maybe I'm good at predicting, but who do you think? Well, I mean, I think my issue for star is, well, I like star, they don't get star.

So I feel like that's the uphill battle that Steve's running all the time. I think someone from SEVA, I think Carl and Camilla are both good bets. I think David, honestly, is a pretty good bet. I definitely underestimated him. You like, you don't love him? Yeah, I love David.

Oh, you love him, okay. And I think there's often, especially with someone so big and physical, I think he's got a lot about him away from that. Like, I don't know, he's showing a lot of like, vulnerability, showing a lot of, a mix that you don't often see from like a character. For somebody that looks like him, which is so, I know, stereotypical,

but it's nice, it's refreshing. Yeah, I think that, yeah, he has a lot of green flags. I think that like, ruler have had difficulty. It might help them get through further, but I don't know that they can, I don't see, say, winning from a social perspective. Mary, we haven't seen a lot of Mary. I don't know that Mary will win from an even an edit perspective.

I like Mary though. I do like Mary. Yeah. Yeah, but they don't have as many maybe connections in the game. Maybe that's my issue, but compared to like a Siva. Yeah, definitely maybe some more from Siva then. Well, yeah, Camilla, I'm going, I'm standing on the hill, Camilla.

That's the one. Yeah, because then like, I feel like Laghi, like again, people don't get star, Eva and Joe have this like now big like public thing and Joe anyway, like he's so loyal. And it's also, he's just like, I feel like at a point you want to take out Joey, I mean, even though he is so loyal,

it's like, he's also such an incredible human. You would never want to sit next to him at the end. Like there's so many extremes with Joe that you'll want to take care of in time. And Shaheen, maybe Shaheen of Lagi kind of has some runway. But again, I think coming in from Siva with the numbers from Siva, combining the tribe names, I think that's better. And I think I think I'm going to say, if you're going to say Camilla, I'll say Kyle. I definitely see Camilla. I definitely see David. I don't see Chrissy from an edit perspective. And she, I don't know, she has her connections,

but also always difficult in that demographic to win a jury vote. Mitch maybe has had fewer Siva connections. And I think that people will want to get rid of his story. So I put maybe in that order, like, yeah, I put Kyle, Camilla. I mean, and he could go either way. You've said Camilla, I'm going Kyle. I just have like a, I had a really good feeling about Kyle pre-season and he's like the only one I had a good feeling about who's still in the game

because all the other people I drafted, I didn't even draft him, but they're all gone. So I think Kyle, I mean, just- You're drafted earlier. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't draft Kyle. So Kyle, because of what could have been,

then Camilla, just on gut instinct separating them, then I see David, who might just not be able to keep up as much strategically, but he's been doing great. Doesn't know the show so well, but like, present company included, that might not necessarily matter, right? So yeah, maybe David, maybe like Camilla. I would never have thought,

yeah, I never actually thought that David could win, but the more you see it, I like David. There's nothing, it's just the fact that he's just some like massive like guy who's like, you just don't expect that kind of story to win now. I don't know, I just don't see him. But no, I think he's got a lot of green flags,

like you said. Yeah. But I like David. Yeah, the issue with David is you would think that if I see like, you just get rid of him because you do end up getting rid of the big guys like that. I know that because I continuously drafted them. But then again, maybe he'll win some challenges. I don't know if the challenges will really suit

his physicality going further into it. I don't know that they'll suit Mitch. Mitch has done so well in the tribal challenges, but now that's not going to help him in the individual challenges. But Mitch has a lot of connections on the outside as we've seen with, you know, like Cedric as an example, I guess, maybe just Cedric now,

because he voted out Bianca. Well, he didn't. Bianca went home. But yeah, thinking about it now, I think, I mean, look, it's a very open field. Certainly like Mary could win, you know, Cedric could win, even though it's been chaotic, like he's had power, he could navigate. It's not coming from the best spot, but he could navigate. You know, definitely the laggy people could win too. It's very open because it's US survivor. It's not like Australian survivor. It's a lot less open a lot of the time

from an edit perspective at least. Yeah, well, no, it'll be interesting. How many episodes is there? So we're on episode five. How many is left after this? 13. There's 13 episodes altogether? Yeah. Right. Oh wow, so we nearly have, we're

flying through it, it feels fast. Yeah, yeah and considering I'm missing three weeks to go to Europe, really flying through it. I hope there aren't any finicky rule things while I'm gone. I hope that everyone just keeps it cool while I'm on vacation, but surviving never takes a vacation. Would you still be podcasting when you're over here? No, I probably won't. Because I feel like I'm gonna be in Greece. You know what I mean? And like-

Oh, yeah. You don't wanna be cooped up inside in Greece. I think Greece- I don't want to. You wanna be outside. Greece will be lovely, I think. Scotland. Yeah. I actually live quite close to Edinburgh.

Well, I say close, two hours. But like, that's probably, I live like five hours from London. So- Oh, well then let's catch I live like five hours from London. So. Oh, well then let's catch up in Edinburgh instead of London. So much easier. I've just realised like it would just be like coming to London, yeah, but Edinburgh,

I live near like the Scottish border so. Were you going to travel five hours to London for me to get coffee? I would have, yes, 100% of course I would. I would have come down. Is that that social game? It's only, you have to work at these connections. Oh my God, that's why as a social expert, you just, to work at these connections. Oh, my God. That's that.

That's why as a social expert, you just you casually said you we could get a coffee. I didn't realize it was a 10 hour round trip for you. No, I had to come down, spent like come down with the car. I just spent the night in London and come home. I'm quite easy going with like I am quite easy. I don't I don't need but even in survival, like I didn't mind if I didn't get seconds on the food.

I didn't mind because it's all, you know, like some people, I don't find like traveling a few hours, cool for me. I like being busy. That's incredibly kind. Well, I'm glad we figured out a different way. I mean, you can come to Greece if you want. Greece? That would be something that would probably actually be faster for me to flight three

and a half hours degrees to London. Yeah. OK, well, I've invited you now. So if you want to join our trip, I can send you the luxury escapes that we booked and you can maybe get a room. Brilliant. This would be brilliant. I'll be I'll be like like the son you don't want. Like just hanging around you. Oh, I'm adopted then.

I already said you were my son. I already said when you won Survive, I said you're so proud of you and you're my son. I'm in. I'm in. That's brilliant. I love Australia. I'll have to come to Australia and I'll be using that. Yeah. And you won't even complain about the travel because apparently you were going to travel 10 hours for a cup of coffee and we should have at least, we were going to get lunch, right? Like we're going to get a dinner at least. If you're coming to London, 10 hours, we should have done dinner, yeah. We'll do dinner. We'll do dinner in Edinburgh.

Dinner in Edinburgh actually sounds really good. Scottish Europe, North, North of the UK, the best place to be. Okay, great. I'm glad everyone was here for us to work this out. This is good, this is so public. This is really good, this is good podcasting, but I'm just so touched that you were going to come 10 hours anyway.

I love London. Yeah. And also to see me. Both things. Absolutely. The Queen, Survivor. Well, no, I'm not agreeing with you. I'm just agreeing that you were so, so kind.

Anyway, he was going to come five hours to London anyway. People heard what you did. Crazy. Let's do the Chissy. Take it away, Jacob. Take it away, YC. And MC Color. Two, three. One, one, one, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, one, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, one, one, one, two, three, one, two, away, YC. And MC Tala. Two, three. One, one, one, one, one, two, three, one, two, three.

It's getting, it's getting, it's getting kind of cheesy. Three, two, one. Okay. I came in, you know, I came in really doubting my points. I really struggled, but the more we spoke about it and that you affirmed my hot takes, I feel good about my points. Do you want to give your points first? I actually think based on our conversation,

we might go in a similar direction, but give me your points. I don't want to look like I'm copying you. You're the expert. You tell me. So I'm going to go first. So you want me to give three points first? Yeah. Three points first.

I'm going to go with Star. Okay. I'm going to go three points for Star. Okay. I'm gonna go three points for Star. I think it is maybe a bit of a hot take socially. There could be some like social agency going forward which is getting self-given the public idol but also having some sort of ownership

over the public idol as well. I love that. Yeah, it's a hot take that at first I was really unsure. The first note I read about Star was like, is that the right thing to do? Would I give up an idol that was technically mine? But for the greater good, maybe. And I like it. I think, yeah, I think it was a great episode for Star. So three points there for Star. Okay. Yes, who else? Two points. I am going to go with Cedric. I think Cedric, he had options again.

He kept his cool. He's been to tribal council so many times now. Four times, yeah. Four times in five episodes. He's in a good position. he's still got Say who I think is going to be a good shield for him. He was in control of their moments. He chose how much to survive in the Tribal Councils. He must have a lot of control. So I think two points there. He's good for Cedric and yeah I think he probably did make the right decision in the Tribal Council.

And one point for me, it's gonna go to Eva. Just for Eva, maybe even not meaning to, Eva opened up, that opened up Star. Eva's now got an idol because of that, which I think is great. The only thing I didn't really like is, maybe can't be helped, is the publicness, like how public it is of Eva and Joe's relationship. But that was just kind of on emotion in the moment. It created a lovely moment.

So yeah, I think Eva, everything she's overcoming, I feel like we're going on this journey with Eva of kind of, yeah, I like it. So Eva, one point. Okay. I'm now struggling because now I feel like I don't, now I feel like I'm looking at the charts in front of me and I don't, I don't want the charts to, to feel wrong because I'm going to give three points to Cedric and that means that Cedric will be on 11 points leaving this pre-merge and will be on the most points because we have Sein, Camilla, and X on nine. I'm going to defend it. He's survived four tribal councils with total control every time in some of the most complex things we've seen. We've talked about it for hours over the last few weeks and to have even just been in the know through those tribal

councils, let alone to have had control, let alone to have survived it. Three people have gone at their first tribal council of the season. Maybe another one will go next week. So to survive for tribal councils, it'll take some of these people through to mid-merge to get to that point, let alone that they've been so finicky with so many things is that allies losing votes a couple of different times and he's made it work in a way that it seemed to make sense for him. So I'm going to defend it. And I just, yeah, I need to credit that at least. And I also think that this was fine. And if he's going to keep working with And I just, yeah, I need to credit that at least. And I also think that this was fine. And if he's going to keep working with Chrissy and Mitch with that SEVA connection that we

think can be really powerful, like I actually, I think it was fine. So I'm giving him three points. I was going to give two to Star, but you've given three to Star. That will put Star on six. Now we shouldn't really be gaming the chizzy, but shouldarr be on six, like given that she's been on the outs for most of the merge, like I think her leaving on four for the pre-merge, her leaving the pre-merge on four feels much more right.

And it feels like there are a lot of people who've played pretty well, who earn so much fewer points. I agree with what you're saying. I stand on my Starr three points for this episode alone, but like with what you're, I know what you mean in terms of this episode three is OK, but I think as a whole. Probably not loads of points.

Yeah, and this was a difficult episode where like, you know, last week, Camilla gets six points for like this all time move. You know, Carl Ume gets four points for that. Should start at five points for it kind of if you move that we liked? We did like it. But should she get five points for that? Yeah, it is a hot, I mean, yeah, I mean, it was in ways kind of risky. But again, I think we think that, you know, the risk makes sense. And if anything, maybe having a public idol is more risky. So my question is, but should she get five points for that over like Kyle getting four? Like now I'm looking at just like the exchange rate basically on points. I feel like maybe your three was enough to kind of honor her for this.

Justified. Yeah. But I do think as well, and we've said it a few times in this episode, it's people go to tribal council so often, although Cedric, should he be on the most points? There's an argument there. But then, like you were saying, he has been to tribal council four times, survived every time in so many different dynamics. And I just think, yeah, you can only play with

what you've got to play with, you know what I mean? So like the tools you've got. So it just is the council loads. It's what we've seen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but then it's like, Star's actually been at the bottom. Like, I mean, Bianca was saying Star would have gone

and they got to tribal council, but that was only because she lost her vote. Here, it's like, I mean, not giving it to Chrissy. I don't think this was right for Chrissy. And I also think Chrissy would have gone home if Bianca had her vote. So I have to think about that. Who else do I have?

So I was gonna give two to Star. I was gonna give one to Eva for how she handles the situation, how she can act with Star after. I really like how all of Joe, Shaheen, Camilla and Kyle handled that four. But it's kind of really hard to split who of the four should get points. Who do you give to? But I kind of think maybe I should do that because someone like Joe, Joe I really was thinking about because it's so public,

but there's also nothing else he can do there. So it's not like, well, it is unfortunate for gameplay. I also can't blame him. And I do think that the way he's connected with Camilla and Carl, that's really good. Maybe I should be giving to Joe and Shaheen. You've taken care of the star Eva side of it. And I do wanna give a point to Eva,

but maybe I should be giving two to Joe and one to Shaheen who they played've taken care of the star Eva side of it. And I do want to give a point to Eva, but maybe I should be giving two to Joe and one to Shaheen who they played last week really badly, but they played like the rest of the pre-swap really well. And I think with Joe as well, he seemed so cautious in the moment to go up to Eva. And I think he knew it was kind of what's morally right and what's good for the game. And he was into

what he knew he's an emotional loyalty player so he had to do it. I feel bad for Joe that he he had to kind of comfort. Yes I think I'm going to give two to Joe and here's how I'm going to justify it because the humanity that makes Joe do that is the same humanity that will make people connect with him and two days later be like, I like him more than my old allies. It's good from all of them, but we really see it so tangibly in Joe. Joe has on one point through this pre-emerge, and he's gone through a pre-emerge with people who like him that much, all of them. I think he just needs to be credited more for the social positioning that he goes

into this merge with. And we did see everything that makes Joe who he is, that creates that social positioning, we saw on full display in this episode. So I'm going to give two to Joe. And then one for me, should I still give it to Eva? Should I give it to Star? You gave Star three. Should I give it to Shaheen? I'm going to give it to Eva. I think I was going to give it to her anyway. I think that's definitely the best option. I think I was going to give it to her anyway. I think that's definitely the best option. I think she deserves it this week.

Just more so than maybe giving star four. Eva two. We gamed it. Should we be gaming it? No. And also I feel bad that David has one point and like Mitch doesn't have a point. He connected well with Cedric and like he wasn't in on the vote maybe this episode. But there's some big glaring omissions.

There's a lot of Vula. I think what the issue was like, look, Thomas had a point, Kevin left on two points, Justin left on four points. Like Vula screwed things up on the chilly charts of the pre-emerge, but I'm just trying to kind of equal the playing field of where we're at.

So yeah. David maybe just deserve more points, but because he hasn't been to tribal council yet, we're not getting the content to really like to give, but hopefully that'll kind of come soon. We'll get to see some more David content and see where he's at. Yeah. To be fair though, like Joe has only been to tribal council once and it went so badly.

Like he hasn't won a vote, but it's still giving him points. I feel like it sets him up well. The kind of person he is that we saw on this episode sets him up well. Too loyal, too big a threat but like also everyone loves him and like that the best parts of that I have to credit. So yeah but Cedric leaves this pre-merge on 11. He's winning then Sey and Camilla on nine and Carl on eight so that's kind of like the top of the jivvy charts there. Eva's now gone up to three, Sy went up to four so it it's kind of where we're at with it. Yeah, in fact, I totally agree with Cedric leaving the pre-merge with the most points, 100% actually. Whatever anyone says, it's been the tribal council four times, it's been

tough, it's been complex and he's come out of it with, he's still got to say, Mary's in the game. We'll see what happens. I don't think it will be that bad for him going forward, especially if there's going to be a Mergetory coming up. Mergetory, yeah. He's controlled the votes and the Chizzi... Yeah, he's been brilliant. Yeah, the Chizzi... Like, I didn't give him any points when Justin went. I didn't like that. But like, yeah, the Chizzi will reward people when they control the votes. And he did. If I don't think it's disastrous and I don't. So you got five points this episode and he's leading the Chibi Jart. He might have the issue with it.

It's the kind of thing where if I post it on Twitter, people will be like, why did that happen? I'll be like, listen to the podcast. OK, that's the conclusions we came to. So anyway, yeah. Do you have any other thoughts on the season, Matt, in your many notes? Do you have any anything else you wanted to say? Well, I'll just go through my notes and decide on some final points.

No, honestly, I think it's been really good, really fast-paced, really exciting. Really look forward to it. I feel like with these seasons of US Survivor, on the last one when you said about coming on the podcast, now I'm just going to be addicted to you. I was really obsessed with this season of Australian Survivor. I started watching these and I do think when you watch them, I prefer Australian Survivor, so when I was watching this US Survivor, I was like, oh, it's a bit... But then now

I'm just going to be obsessed, I'll be waiting until next week now. Because now, I think the start of the podcast may be a bit slow to get into it, but now I could just going to be obsessed. I'll be waiting until next week now. Cause we're talking right now. I think the start of the podcast maybe be slow to get into it, but now I could just talk all day. I'm loving it. You know what I mean? I'm ready to go. No, it wasn't slow to start.

It was great. It was like this season. It was fast to start. It was fast to start. I just think I was just taking it all in at the start, listening, but then I think you need to be a good listener. I was listening to your points and I've learned a lot again.

I feel like I've, I feel good. It's a good start to my day. Good end to your day. Yes. Good end to my full podcast day. It really was. We have our plan. We won't have to travel 10 hours to get, meet me for dinner, not a coffee, but for dinner.

That was great too. We worked through the prisoners dilemma, which I think was, I always find really fun. I think we've, I think this is, and I think the chili feels good too. I think we really sorted some stuff out today. Yeah, no, I really enjoyed it. Really good to chat about. Yeah. About a crazy season of US Survivor.

The come think of it, I've seen on Instagram, they're casting for 51 and 52 now as well. Oh my gosh. Like I see some like casting. Yeah, yeah, some casting producer. It opened for 51 hours. It's mad, they've come around so fast. I feel like it was literally two minutes ago

we were watching 47. Well, it probably was. Yeah, they do. They pop them out, it's true. Yeah, where can people find you? Tell the people. Yeah, so Matthew here with X on all social channels. I'm quite, well, I'm probably the most active

on TikTok at the minute. I do a lot of stuff on there, lots of adventures, kind of crazy things and just living as somebody in the twenties. Yeah, and just kind of navigating life on there. Instagram, Matthew A. with X as well. So yeah, I love chatting and I love it when people from like the podcast, last time I got such a, like a lot of nice messages from people

who've watched the podcast and maybe hadn't seen the season. So yeah, it opens you up to a lot of people, which is nice. Yeah, people were excited to have you back. So this was so much fun. I'm so glad we got to chat. Everyone can follow me at Shannon Gates.

In a few weeks from now, you'll see a selfie of us in Edinburgh. We're together. Perfect. This is good. From other sides of the world. Love it. Yeah. We know global survivor.com for all of the content.

As I said, many, many podcasts happening now. I covered the end of Deal or No Deal Island. We talked about that because David Jenner from A Strange Survivor was on that. No spoilers, but we were talking about his journey with Jenny and Chappelle. Exit interviews came out for week six today. The recaps will come out next week going through to week seven. This week for week six, my guest was Caroline. Next week, my guest is Andy from Survive 47 on the feedback show Australian Survivor on US Survivor. Next week I have Harry Hills. What else? Exits, recaps, feedback show US Survivor.

I think that's it. I think that's it. It was a long day. It was a long day. Yeah, it was fun though. It was a fun podcasting day, but thank you so, so much for this, Matthew. This was great.

I can't wait till we get to hang out. Yeah, it'd be brilliant. I can't wait. And we can chat survivor. I'm excited and there'll be a lot more episodes out by then as well. So we'll be able to really, really get into it and see if our predictions are right. I think we've had some hot takes and we've made some good points. So we'll see if we're right.

Yeah, big hot take podcast. I think definitely going against the grain, but that's always fun. And math supports things that we've said. So that's what's important. Well, not really, actually, the math set to betray and Cedric didn't do that. But still, we also reasoned it out. It made sense. Anyway, thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, always. Thank you to our team behind the scenes. And I'll see you guys next time. Survive!