RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor Global: Vote Steal, Extra Vote & Idol-Ception | Season 48 Episode 4 with Eden Porter

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Survivor Global host Shannon Guss speaks to Australian Survivor Titan Eden Porter about episode 4 of Survivor 48. The two chat about the idol, revote and vote steal rules and permutations, the possible dynamics of the swap, chocolate milk, jet skis and more.

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and an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BETT MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. The Hello everyone and welcome to RIP's coverage of Survivor 48 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shannon Guss.

My head is officially spinning two weeks in a row where I was up late last night just wondering so many things, so many questions about the rules of Survivor that we still don't know. Why are we still working out within rules we don't know with endless caveats like assuming these are the rules? And to do that, I have someone who has promised me that this is okay and that he wants to be here. He is, it says a failed Titan, but I don't agree at all. He's a Titan, Australian survivor player,

one of my great friends. It is a great Eden Porter. Eden, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me, Janet. And what an episode to come and swap some serious statistics with you today because there is a lot going on with the breakdowns. I can just sense from your energy

that you're putting out into the world, this concept of stealing votes and extra votes and using idols. I know there's a spreadsheet somewhere in your life that's just burning a hole through your computer at the moment. So I cannot wait to start breaking this down and getting to it.

Thank you so much for having me on, Shannon. Love it. I wish it was as sophisticated as a spreadsheet. What it has been over the last day, I went to sleep at 3 a.m. last night and I had a migraine just trying to work it out. I tweeted a lot of parts of my thought process that then kept being superseded by new information. Every tweet is wrong. I think we've got to the right thing now, but I'm wondering if tomorrow I'll be like,

but wait, because at every stage I'm like, wait, no, it's not a spreadsheet. It's been literally scribbling in my notebook, just like the votes and then casting out votes and then stealing votes and then wondering what votes happen on the re-vote. The re-vote rules as they pertain to extra votes and vote steals and idols are so complicated. I mean, this is a five person tribe with three advantages that are all incredibly finicky. I mean, yeah, the target revote conundrum is again, two weeks in a row, quite a time. All I'm imagining, Shannon, is you in a room scrolling on the walls, no vote and extra votes make Shannon something something crazy.

Don't mind if I do, but it's not just that. It's also it's the it's the non Julia Roberts meme again. The gift slot, the first news, not Claire Danes and not Julia Roberts. Literally me till 3am last night. We was like, what time did you come to bed? I'm like, you don't understand. What happens if an extra vote is stolen and happens to a target? We're going to talk through it.

And I just assure you, it will be painful. Eden, big episode, though, it was a fun episode before you get to the fact that it's like the game is fundamentally broken in probably multiple ways. Like, this is a good time. This was a bit of a heist. Camilla and Kyle, the Holes Alliance pulled off quite a quite a sting. A couple of questions. Firstly, how did you enjoy it?

But firstly, before that, you are a movie connoisseur, literally. Holes is the best movie of all time, right? I know it's a leading question. I don't care. I'm like the 50 vote terminology, telling you that that's the fifth. Holes is the best movie of all time. Holes is definitely a movie, Shannon. It is a movie that's out there in the world. You don't like holes. Watch and enjoy. Holes, I could take or leave holes, mate. Oh my god, you've so kicked up the podcast. I'm doing, I'm monologuing about the revote rules for the next hour and you're just simply kicked off. It's been nice to talk to you,

Eden. I'll see you later. Okay, bye. Look, holes is fine. Holes is great. Holes is not my top 10. Holes is, I don't even have it on DVD. I'm telling you that right now. Okay, well that's fine because who has a DVD player anymore, Eden? Yep, well. Well, okay. That says a lot. Okay, you're banned from the podcast after this podcast, but I guess survivor related. Did you like what the Holes Alliance did though?

I did, I did. I loved what the Holes Alliance did because this comes down to the subtle art of lying Shannon. This is what we like in the game of survivor. It is planting enough seeds in the ground to let them grow and to not be too forceful because we've all seen it a million times where people come out there and they try and lie. They try and come out and say, oh yeah, we actually hate each other and this person is terrible and they're no good. But the subtleness of these guys to just plant enough doubt to make someone like, make someone seem like they're on the bottom, make someone seem like, oh, we

don't know each other that well. And having that awareness to, to go, you know what, we can't go off and just talk together by ourselves and get our plan straight and know what's happening. We have to be separate all the time. And then once they wanna go and speak as a three, then we can have our chat, but we've gotta let them do that and project that out onto us.

I just thought every step of that journey from once they merged, they had a plan and they stuck to it the entire time. And it was honestly, chef's kiss at how it ended up like falling together. But it all started just with that really subtle lying about, oh yeah, I'm like, Camilla's like, oh yeah, I'm on the bottom and I was definitely first to go.

And Kyle just being like, oh look. And it was the way that he disagreed with her that Sean said as well. He's like, oh, I wouldn't say you're on the bottom, bottom. Cause that's what someone would say to sort of confirm that, oh no, no, we're actually okay. It was just, it was, it was the perfect double bluff. It was really good.

I loved it. Yeah. It's like what we were saying with Mary last week about what we always say with people who are bluffing an idol, but then they clearly like, well, you know, threatening with the idol, which is what someone without an idol will do so that you don't vote for them. Like Mary, as she said, committed to the bit and to lie well,

you have to literally imagine that that is your reality. So in that reality, she has an idol. What would an idol, someone with an idol do? They would go to the water. They might be less scared. And that then scares people more because it's a more realistic life. And Camilla and Kyle did that so well. And I completely agree the way that Kyle was like kind of high-pitched, like, no, I love you is like the kind of way someone might deny that when like you really were on the bottom and they did it so well. And I feel like as well, Camilla really pushed Thomas into this, I want to say unforced era not to play his vote steal. I think the thing is he had his reasons, but the reasons were around, I don't want people

to suspect me because she's putting suspicion on him. And we'll talk about it, the different limited ways that the vote steal might have worked, which again will have endless caveats of how the vote steal works in a situation like this. But I definitely think you want to play it to give yourself a fighting chance is where I've gotten to with Thomas on the vote steal. And I think that the first era was not sharing that information with his allies to begin with. The second era was not eventually sharing it to try help your group. And I think that what's so interesting to me is we do see this. We saw it last week with Justin not sharing his information. We're seeing it in what I see as this looming SIVA-Lagi war, of which this was the first battle. And I think SIVA will win this war because they've been so transparent with their information. And that has

given them all these tools in the game that Thomas didn't use. It only puts suspicion on him. Whereas Camille and Kyle had Mitch's information where that helped them choose a target because they knew that Mitch got a blocker vote and they knew that Thomas could have something like that. That would be a problem for them in the future and they used it all so well. So we see the power of that information that Steve reviews that Lagi clearly have not. Yeah, I think you hit a couple of really good points there. So one is when do you share information

and when don't you share information? Because obviously we've seen it in the last couple of episodes when people tell something and it comes out and it blows up. I think the rule has to be, if you get an idol, don't tell anyone about the idol. The idol is something that you can keep to yourself and that people expect you to keep to yourself

and you can bring it out when you need it. I think if you have an advantage or you've lost your vote, it is advantageous to tell your alliance and your community so you can plan around it as a group, as a team, to get you through the next section. I think that's sort of the rules that we should sort of walk around because it's going to be more strategically beneficial for your alliance to other people. They're thinking, okay, we know you don't have a vote, but how do we maneuver that and what do we need to do now?

Or yes, you can steal a vote, we can get that and use that to our advantage. The other thing that I thought, and I thought Camilla did this, I actually think she did it accidentally, but it actually worked perfectly. When she started throwing Thomas under the bus and saying, oh, dropped all the journey information and made everyone suspicious of Thomas, I think that was fantastic.

But what it ended up doing was making him double down on his lie. And as a result, it made him go, well, I don't want to play this now because then I will have to come out and then I will have to admit to them that I'm lying. So by doing that, by putting it in there, she made this little barrier of, well, now if he's got something, if he has to use it, he's going to blow up relationships. So now he's second guessing using it. Where if she had never said that or never done it, he might be more likely to actually play it and go, look guys, I've actually got this.

I'm just going to use this tonight. Um, without having to double it. Cause as soon as you double down on that lie, it becomes harder and harder and harder to tell the truth. Once he's saying to them, when it's just the California girls there, no, no, no, well, she's definitely lying. She's definitely lying. Then to come back a couple of hours later and be like, oh, actually, no, she was telling the truth. It becomes harder and harder. And I actually think she initially did that just to try and create a crack in them, but it worked perfectly with making him double think about using it. I think it was

really good. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you can describe the specific intentionality, but I do think the general premise of burying him when he clearly told a lie was going to work out in some way, and it did work for her. I do think that in terms of telling information, with an idol, I do think that there's utility to creating a group that we saw say did that, and it worked until it didn't. But push really came to shove quickly on Vula,

but especially with communally necessary advantages where you can't play a vote still without other numbers, where if you lose a vote, you are more reliant on other numbers. These are numerical advantages that rely on allies to a degree. And I think a really big part of this as well is that Laghi and Siva were so unlikely to lose challenges. I mean, again, even the strongest tribe we've seen in a while can't win on Vula, let alone Vula. So yeah, it's a curse and it's also probably lack of flint and supplies at all and no tarp. And it feels like there's a lot of very practical reasons why this was hard for Vula.

And Thomas talks about that in the X interview. But I do think that you have to rely on the fact that you're probably going to win. And also, Thomas has said he did want to work with the California girls against Stan. That's the way that it kind of went for him. So those are your allies. Like you, he had to share that. And then there was like, he'd already made the mistake of not sharing it, but then not getting to the beach and being like, I do have this thing that I can use for all of us. Like how mad were they going to be? Where else were they going to go? Like at that point, maybe if it's even like a, you know, minor issue, it's

still better to kind of have the information to be like, I'm using this as a team. So I think it was a big issue not to not to tell them about it. And I do think as well, his lie was that he could opt out such a clear lie. I mean, he says that Mitch is lying, but Mitch, she says that Mitch Mitch told them he had a block of it, which feels very true. He told them his advantage, probably showed it so they know that Mitch is telling the truth. She tells them that Mitch has lost a vote, which also feels like something more true because why would you lie about that? Like if anything, a bad thing, whereas opting out is so much the clear lie. Like it's so clear that he lied because that's what

you would say if you still can't opt out to just like put yourself on neutral ground. So it was really clear that he had lied. Exactly. Exactly. And did you want to talk about this idea of this train wreck tribe and the concept that is, is this by design? It is the cast. Obviously we know that everyone gets selected into their cast. Everything like, are they, do they purposely make one tribe, the train wreck tribe, so we get them whittled down and then we can swap it up and change it up. And maybe there's people in the other tribes that will be around there for longer.

And they go, you know what, this is going to be great television because there's all these crazy big people and they're all going to eat each other apart. And it's going to be really fun. It's going to make the pre-merge really fun. Or is it just the domino effect of you don't have fire, you lose the first challenge, and then suddenly you don't have your fire. And then you can't build a good shelter or get food because you are scrambling every day. If you think about how every day almost or every second day you're going to travel, you're doing your scramble, you don't have time to go, guys, let's just take a couple of hours and build the shelter up because you are scrambling the whole time.

So when does it seem important to sit down and build a shelter? And it was just their faces when they saw what they were walking into. And the quote of like, this looks like this place has been deserted for weeks. Well, I think that that's what they said. They said that they can't, they, they've been in survival mode for so long that they haven't had time. Like if you're winning every day, not to mention having suppliers to do it, and you are getting better and I sleep in, you're comfortable.

You can also work harder the next day, let alone having the time, let alone not being at tribal council. Like there's so many things like the time off that the winning tribes get. So I think that I've always thought like, what I'm thinking now is they don't care to prevent a disaster tribe.

Maybe like the Vula tribe designation was crazy, but I don't know how much they realize or at least care about the fact that they have always compounded with a lack of rewards in these combined challenges, with a lack of the flint, which is probably the most damning thing, with the fact that then people start sitting out there wherever they want from the challenge. It's just like, I mean, it speaks for itself. And the fact that a strong tribe could land in the situation,

not even experience it for a week, but literally land there for one night and have it be really detrimental to them. That's what's weird. That it is. It is one day they've got a full five people. It is one day and they just don't sleep very well. And they're not eating anything for a day. And it just all falls apart.

It literally just the wheels came off. It was wild. What? It's kind of like the haves and have nots. Yes. And like twist. Yeah. But like less, you know, obviously not stated,

but when you see the difference and I feel like they put the work, the least physical tribes on these terrible beaches. Like I know Vula they said was the same as like maybe like a Yanu, like often Tika, like they're often on the same really bad beach compared to what we saw that David was like getting all of this food. I don't know that that's on every beach. It's not fair. This is what I mean.

Is this something that they're going, you know what, we're going to give them the bad beach, the cursed beach, the beach that's built on an Indian burial ground or something like that. It's been cursed from day one because that's the only explanation that rings true to me, Shen. Yeah. It's unfair for the people who get in that situation and whose game is, you know, 50 50 of even making it to a point where anyone else is at seeing a tribal council and it sucks for this Vula tribe who didn't even lose all the challenges

and be compounded to this point and got to the point where they don't have any rewards, very, very unfortunate. Um, but let's talk. But let's talk about how the votes steal, the extra vote and the idle interact in this five-person tribe with three advantages. Because to talk about Camilla and Kyle here, it felt like they had it on lock. They threw both of their advantages at it. It's been confirmed that Kyle did use the extra vote. And it's been stated, but what it means was that they could not lose extra vote, vote steal aside. If it's just three versus they're now three votes,

they can't lose because either what will happen happened, which is that Kyle wins on the idle, or it goes to a three-three tie. We're at a rock draw, immune Kyle and target Camilla are both immune from rocks and can just be like, you guys be the go to rocks, Shaheen and Joe, or you turn on Thomas. So I think that they were right to throw all of their advantages at this.

I know that there's been questions around like, was the extra vote wasted? You know, Kyle thought that he was gonna be the target and he thought that, you know, he could just use his idol. But I do feel like they couldn't know who the target would be. It was something that the California girls were even disagreeing on. And it's Camilla's extra vote to save herself.

Like you wouldn't want to leave that open. It's more about seeing the next day and I guess hoping to win challenges in what is a strong tribe where you are very close to emerge. So I thought that this was the right thing to do in a survival situation. How do you feel about the way that they kind of threw trinkets at it to win the day? So I think there was a couple of things that happened that really opened the door for them as well. When Kimilla saw the guys going through Carl's bag, that is a big indication that they're looking at targeting him for the vote and that it's going to move forward and that they didn't

think they found anything. They're like, no,'s that's all good I think that she then has that information of they're really targeting him and looking him and now they think they've looked in his bag and they haven't really found it by the way that was a that was a very poor search of a bag can I just say that right now Shannon that was a squealy grab and move on absolutely terrible and the fact that he put it in his shoe he put it in his shoe and you know what they say about shoes? You see, you put it down near the toe because criminals, they just check the heel and then they move on.

That's what happens at the beach when you put it down. Yeah, exactly. Oh, what? Where? You know when you put your wallet in your shoe? No. At the beach? Oh, Shannon, come on.

You've got to watch more Seinfeld. You're missing all these references. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's so unfair. That's so unfair. Can I give you friends references from the one where they went to the beach? We can. Yeah, we can trade that. It's a classic Seinfeld bit of putting your wallet in your shoe. I know I choose not to run. I know these pretzels are making me thirsty. That makes up for it. Well, you only know that because I wore a shirt for an entire season.

No, I already knew that one. I got that one. Don't worry about it. No, but back to the point it had. Wait, fun story, by the way, for everyone who doesn't know, the fact that Eden actually met Jerry Seinfeld and said to him, I wore a Seinfeld shirt on Survivor the whole time I was there. And Seinfeld was like, okay.

Cool. He can't continue walking out the door with his hat on. I was like, not a big fan. You were like, you are my whole life. That would be like if I met Taylor Swift in B&M and was like, I'm alive because of you. And she was like, okay. Just like scenes on you. Cool story though.

Yeah. Cool story. But back to the point at hand, I thought that was a big tell. I thought that was interesting. I thought the other thing they did really well, Camilla instantly said, okay, Carl, you're going to take my extra vote because you're the one with the idol and you're going to play the idol, which is going to protect you from being the split vote where in a result that it's got the same amount of ties and then you can't vote, so you can't give you

two votes. So giving it to the person that had the idol, I thought that was another thing that they'd really thought about. I thought that was brilliant. And just to be like, you know what, I'm all in on this. I could, this could go home, but let's just put all our trinkets together and use them. It's the right philosophy. It's a fact that they, and I heard a few people out there saying like, oh, I don't think Camilla should have like called out Tom in front of everyone about the journey and all this sort of stuff and putting it out into the world. But I actually think in that situation, they were just throwing everything at the wall.

They were throwing everything. Every single thing they could. And I think that's what you have to do when you're in that situation. Interestingly enough, I actually think the boys actually probably played this with a little too much confidence because I'm sorry, a three versus two is a really dangerous vote. And it is really hard, especially with all these trinkets in the game. You don't know who's been on journeys. You don't know what people have. So it is really dangerous. So to be as cocky, not cocky, but to be as confident as they were. I think the correct way to play that from those guys would have been in a similar vein to what what Camilla and stuff did is don't come at as a three. Come at it as, look, I know I'm on the

bottom of these three. So if there is anything and then try and create something where there could be a crack and make someone else the swing vote. And then at least give those guys some confidence to go like, oh, maybe we've got something here. Then maybe they don't play both their advantages. Maybe you can sort of break it down that way. So I think the boys played it with so much confidence that the other two knew, the holes alliance knew we have to do everything right now or our game is over and there is nothing

holding them back. They would have, they would have gone to rocks. That's fine. Yeah. Totally fine for them. They've got nothing to lose. A hundred percent. They threw everything out. It kind of like a two person David tribe or kind of like Stanley Yelnits and Hector Zaroni, right? Teaming up to throw everything out a plan. And I thought it was really good. And to be fair, like you say it's a three, two, which is dicey, Thomas knows Bianca went on a journey that Camilla went on that was lose or gain a vote.

So to use the vote steal just on the threat of her having an extra vote to take it to a three, three, where it'll be two for them, V1 in a rock situation where they have that leverage, that in itself, I think is really dicey. Yeah, so I think that they did really well to seem like they had nothing because they acted really desperate, which I think is really dicey. Yeah. So I think that they did really well to, to, to seem like they had nothing because they acted really desperate,

which I think was really good, but there was never any chance here. I thought of them turning on each other. Like Rob talked about the, like a prisoner's dilemma, which it's not, because in this situation, I want to talk about a different prison's dilemma separately in this, in this podcast, but for them, first prize is, you know, winning together and not turning on each other. And more importantly, Kyle is immune.

So he's never turning on Camilla because he knows he's going to be completely safe. And Camilla turning on Kyle is never going to work. But that actually would be good because it's what happened. It would protect them if they all vote for Kyle. So they had enough ammo to throw all of their trinkets at it. And I think they did it really, really well. But I feel like we need to get into the rules discussion before we talk about because there's so many so many caveats, so many things.

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and has your back all season long. From puck drop to the final shot, you're always taken care of with the sportsbook Born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite skater or your style, there's something every NHL fan is going to love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your hockey home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a celly, and an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or

older to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Bet MGM is an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League and has your back all season long. From puck drop to the final shot, you're always taken care of with the sportsbook Born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite skater or your style, there's something every NHL fan is going to love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your hockey

home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a celly, and an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario.

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. So, okay, so you mentioned that Camilla gave her extra vote to Kyle. And for people who might be confused, what's been opined about this is that Kyle's going to be immune. He's going to play the idol himself. So it means that if Camilla is the target and can't use that extra vote, Kyle will have it, he'll be immune, he will definitely be

able to revote because he will be immune and he can use the extra vote. I don't understand this because I think that vote steal aside, if you have an extra vote based on the 47 revote rules, which actually have thrown a catamons of pigeons in ways I clearly didn't anticipate at the time, it's making you rethink a lot of things. But if you have an extra vote, and so it's like a 2 v 1 versus the other target, shouldn't you get to still vote? Because in a disparity where it's 1 v 0 because someone has lost their vote, you maintain the 1 v 0 disparity.

So surely you should, in a 2 v 1 disparity, maintain a 1 v 0 disparity even if you are a target. Why not? Maybe they just don't know. They clearly just don't know. But that makes sense for consistency, surely. Okay, so there's another thing as well. The difference between an extra vote and a stealer vote in terms of the vote, because you are using someone else's vote in that regard, but it's not two of your votes. Yes, I completely agree. I've got a lot of thinking now on

Thomas stealing a vote and what might happen if both he, say, and Camilla's votes as targets are negated. And I feel like Thomas would lose two votes. Now I've gotten comments like, but wouldn't he have the votes because it would be actually compared to the other target Camilla, 2 v 0, he should have a 2 v 0 vote disparity. But I think it's a 1 v 1 target v target disparity, but he just owns both votes, so he loses both votes. But am I wrong? I don't know, but all of my thinking is based on the thing that's right for me, and now I'm going to have to endlessly caveat both situations. So that's the first thing.

It gets so complicated with the stolen vote. Okay, here's what broke my brain at 3am last night. Okay, hit me, hit me, Shannon. I'm ready for it. If it's true that you can use your extra vote on the revote if you're a target because of the 2v1 vote disparity. So in this situation, say Kyle is an immune and he has the extra vote and Thomas steals one of his votes. Okay, Thomas steals one of his votes.

They are both targets, but one of Kyle's two votes should still be applicable because it threw a through a re-vote because of the 2v1. But Thomas has stolen one of Kyle's votes. Which vote? Which vote? Yes. Is it the vote that Thomas stole? Or is it Kyle's remaining vote? Because again, in this situation, one of them as a target, Thomas' vote and one of Kyle's

votes are negated, but the one extra vote is live. Did Thomas steal that vote? Or did Kyle maintain that vote? And this will have to be arbitrarily decided by what is the more powerful advantage. Are they going to decide extra votes are the most important thing? Like Thomas steals Kyle's organic vote, but Kyle gets the extra vote. Or is it vote steals are more important? They need to proceed extra votes. So Thomas steals a live vote and Kyle is left with the target vote, which doesn't carry. Which one is it? It's very important What we need to do, we need to get a poker player in here

because obviously poker hands have different values, right? So we need to know that a three of a kind beats a two of a kind and a full house beats this. So we need that hierarchy for our advantages. We need to know in terms of the advantage hierarchy, Yeah, yes. Yeah, which is the four of the kind, which is four of the kind, which is a

full house and which one beats which because these are the things we need, Jeff, these are the things we need to know. The fact that we were so close to going back to the rule book, two episodes in a row where Jeff is like, uh-huh, uh-huh, is very, very concerning and something that I want to talk about. But okay, another thing as well is like, I've always assumed the vote steal steals one vote. So that if you have like, if Carl has two votes, it steals one vote. Other people have thought maybe it negates your entire ability to vote. I don't think so either because it's called steal a vote. It's not steal voting.

Yeah, but the beware advantage, if you haven't found beware, but you've given up your vote, you give up your whole voting potential. But then I feel like stolen votes or shot in the dark, even if you have two votes, I feel like you'd be able to vote and then you shot in the dark. Like I feel like I think that's what it should be. But is it? Yes. Yeah, that's what we don't know.

Because theoretically, you should be able to steal someone's vote, use your vote for your shot in the dark, which is what it's used. And then your normal vote is their vote. That should be legal. That in my mind, that makes complete sense. But the things that make sense are only one part of the equation. I feel like, okay, I, when the 47 revote rules happened about people, like, you know, targets being able to vote if their other target doesn't have a vote, I thought this is good because it was always based on the fallacy of like, you both can't vote. You can't vote for each other. So now neither of you can vote. It's like, no, but you can vote

for each other because what if there's a vote disparity? What if it's a three person vote? And I thought this is for the best. And it's been just simply two weeks of this, Eden, really actually eight days. But in that time, I think I'm starting to change my mind into what I've listened to the Future Path Survivor podcast and the great stuff here that Brian and Josh do, and they have like what's called the up for execution style of voting, which was the pre 47 vote rules, which is just like, both disparities aside, how many people are in the tie aside. If you're up for execution on the revert, you just sit it out.

And maybe that is better. And maybe we go back to gaming it in our little ways where we then start to factor in who does and doesn't have votes and how that works, you know, in terms of like how we can utilize that for the people that are up for execution. Maybe that is the better thing because there have been so many issues just in the last two weeks alone. Now, to be fair, in the last weeks alone, we've had, well, in the last four weeks of the show, we've had six forced journeys where people have to play the game, all related to like lost, stolen, extra block votes. We've had two tribals with one hit shot in the dark. They all have a shot in the dark. So at any point that can come into play, three advantages in play today and a lost vote

last week. It is a lot. But my question is like, are we going to have to keep finding these finicky little solutions around extra vote is more important than vote seal or vice versa? Or this is what makes sense about when people are voting as targets but then can't or can go to a rock draw. Are we going to have to keep solving the issues as they come up and breaking my brain? Or does it just make more sense to have the pre-47 rules, even if it was based on seemingly a logical fallacy, but it's cleaner, and then we can continue to try and exploit it as we did for decades. Is that better now? Yes.

Everything I know is a lie. All it should be is, and it should just be, if it's a tie vote, then you can only vote for those people and those people don't vote. That's what it should be. But it doesn't make sense. It's not fair to the vote disparity, but maybe that don't vote. That's what it should be. But it doesn't make sense. It's not fair to the vote disparity, but maybe that doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter, Shannon.

And maybe if people can exploit it, then they should be advantaged by that. Correct. That's just what it should be. It should be better? It doesn't matter how many votes have stolen. Doesn't matter how many votes are stolen. Doesn't matter how many extra votes people have.

It doesn't matter. You have the same amount of votes as someone else. Therefore, like you said, you're up for execution. You can no longer do anything to affect the game. It is all up to everyone else. They do it again. If it's still drawn, you go to the open forum. And if that doesn't work, then Jaden just comes in and votes you out. And that's fine. That's what I think that's what happened. I think it's funny how quickly I've folded because as recently as last week, I was like, it's good that they do the 47 revert rules, but here's how you fix it. One week later, I'm like, enough, it's broken me. I think I want to go back now.

I think maybe I want to go back. But the thing is, it's so complicated either way. Talking through these rules is so complicated and certainly like very messed up by who votes as targets on the re-vote when there's the vote economy and like mass vote disparities. And then as we talked about for decades, I mean, gaming, gaming the type of like up for execution style voting system has always been complicated. I know I messed up what Andy and Sam could do if Sierra wasn't with them on the Anika vote six months ago, and it still curses my brain. But she's subsequently spoken to Andy about the fact that they were aware of that and

were going to game it. Oh no, but wait, those weren't even the rules and they didn't know that at the time. But like, it's so complicated and I meant to be like a quote unquote expert here and even I am like, either way, like it's either complicated to try game the upper execution style rules, or there's so many issues apparently with the targets having votes in a vote disparity. How are casuals watching the show? Oh, they don't watch it. I think the worst place to be would be like the middle level. Actually, probably the worst place to be is me thinking about it that much.

I think you are getting the most pain. You're getting the most pain from this. Yes, the more you think about it, the absolutely the worse it gets. Okay, so what was it? Was it game changes where they brought in that rule that no one cared about? Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah.

Do you remember that? That hung around for what? One season, two seasons. It was meant to be this big thing of like, no, no, no, if it's a draw vote, you're going to rocks and we're trying to create rocks. And it never happened. It never panned out. What about like that was them trying to stop people drawing votes and things like that. Are there other options where if you get a draw, first round, if it's a tie, you just go to fire straight away. Let's get more fire making in Survivor Shannon. Every opportunity we need to make fire up because that represents a lot.

I said that last week unironically. Did you actually? Well, I did say, because we can talk about this later because I wanted to talk about something from last week, but I did say that it's like, say, and Cedric and Vodafred, I thought I should go to fire. Go to fire. And I said they're not going to fire enough and I said it unironically. But the thing is, it would happen every tribal council because look how often it's happening

because it's these extremes that the new era throws at it. And yeah, you're right. The absolute worst place to be is someone who thinks deeply about this. It's a curse, Eden. So you know Thomas's steal a vote as well. He ultimately decided not to play it. So in his brain, he's thinking, okay, I want to hold onto this. It's going to come in real handy.

I actually think coming into Merge, this is, I think it's a false memory in people's heads going dating back to idols. Obviously you want an idol coming into Merge. There's nothing better than having a hidden idol because merge is all so crazy No one knows what's happening. So it's really good to have that in your back pocket I think that memory people have that going like I want heaps of advantages. I want my advantages coming into merge I don't think a steal a vote or an extra vote in merge

Is that beneficial because the majority of the time we see it again and again, there is usually a consensus vote. There is usually someone that gets everything piled on them with a split with someone else. I don't think it is that beneficial for your game to have an extra steal of votes or an extra vote in that original Merge tribal council. And then what's happening, then you're holding it onto it until like a few more episodes down the road. Now you're holding onto it for like five, six episodes. No, get it, use it when you need to use it when you feel like you just need to get through the next day, unless you have it locked in and locked down then, but they didn't have this locked in lockdown. They knew there was a possibility that things could go sideways.

So you just use it. I think 50 50 chance is a three3 with them having better leverage of rocks. Do you think the guys really realized that or did they just 100% think that they were voting for each other? Did they just 100% think that? I think they got super, super snowed. But firstly, I agree with you. I've definitely spent years at this point talking about how useless the extra vote is.

It is ironic how much it helped here and how much it would have helped next episode if they still had it. So those were like, again, in these tiny tribes, a good place to use it. In terms of using the vote steal, I mean, the vote steal is more powerful than obviously an extra vote, but it's still situational where you have these slim numbers. How much would the vote steal have helped? I've been on a journey with this, Eden. Do you care to join me on a journey that I've been to? I should get my captain's hat out. All aboard, we're going for a journey. Probably a pen and paper is probably the best.

Because I kept tweeting at every single stage of my thought process. And again, all the tweets are wrong because I kept getting to new places with this. I really hope tomorrow I don't find a new thing. I think I'm at the end of the journey. I think I'm at the end of the journey. And again, it's based on rules that are up in the air. Get your dice out.

We're in this. Because at first I felt like Thomas, my winner pick, my final draft pick. And I thought it was good that you lost for this because you would have won had you stolen the vote. They shored it up with the extra vote and the idol. But had you stolen the vote, I mean, you don't know if Camilla's lost a vote or gained a vote, but if it's like a 3-3 or 3-2 or 3-1, then you're going to a 4-2, a 4-1 or 4-0. You can split on an idol. You've won the day, but you didn't do it.

You idiot. So I was like, it was good that you wore that and you were the target and you like definitely would have won. Yes, yeah that's always, yeah. That's the first part of the journey only. Then I tweeted it, idiotically. Stop tweeting at two in the morning when you think you've gotten somewhere and there's just layers to dig, much like in holes. I'm still trying to get through. You were thinking to yourself, I'll never change my opinion on this, this is locked in, I'm completely committed to this. It's out there in the world.

And then you went to bed and everything was fine in the world. I actually didn't go to, I don't remember what stages of the journey I was asleep, but I know I dreamt about it. I definitely know that I, and I think it became clear to me in my dreams, but, but anyway, no, I hadn't gone to sleep yet. Steven tweeted and pointed out that actually with that there was a way that they could win even with that Camilla and and Kyle could win even with the vote still right so like okay so he so Thomas has stolen a vote so say he had stolen okay this is what Stephen tweeted say

he had stolen Camilla's vote then then what would happen, again, assuming that Thomas steals a vote, and it's still Camilla's vote. So it's one vote of Thomas's that he has and one vote of Camilla. And because they're both targets, he loses both votes. Now this is assuming that he doesn't have two votes to her zero that would count on a revote based on the disparity. I'm assuming, because if he, if he has votes over Camilla because there is votes and there's disparity, then actually he would win. And I go back to being like, you idiot, you could have won with the vote seal, but assuming it is Camilla's vote and his own vote and they're the two targets,

it means that Kyle immune with two votes, the extra vote and Joe and Shaheen and other two votes are the only people voting in a revote. And it's actually a 2-2 where again, Camilla and Kyle are immune at the revote. It's 2-2 and they have won the day. And I thought, wow. Yeah, she's the tie. She's the target. He's the tie. He's got the idol. Yeah, he has the idol on two votes and Joe and Shaheen have two votes with the 2-2 where they are both immune because Camilla is the target and he's immune with an idol Which is the same way they would have won in like a three three situation here if they targeted Camilla over Kyle

So I thought oh my god, no poor Thomas There's no way he can win because if that's true then Camilla and Kyle can anticipate that and they can make sure that The person whose vote is installed because it's very important that the first order of operations is that a vote is publicly stolen. So even if you were to seal Kyle's vote, Kyle could then make sure he protects Camilla with the idol and make sure Camilla has the extra vote because again we don't know, I think that if Kyle has the extra vote it should still carry, but we don't know again which vote would be stolen, which vote would carry. Give it to Camilla, she's going to be immune. You protect Camilla and now you assure yourself the 2-2. So that stage of the journey, which is I think when I went to

sleep, I thought, wait, poor Thomas, even if he'd use the extra vote, they can always game it to always get to the 2-2. And I thought, poor Thomas, he would have been auto trinketed out. And then stupidly, Eden, I tweeted that. Are you with me in the journey so far? Yeah, I'm still with you, Jenny. But what about a 3-1? That's the point that I got to today. I love this evening. Thank you. I was talking to also, again, Brian from Future Pass Survivor, and I had already been started

thinking, but what else can they do? They could, you would think, maybe pile a 4-0 then onto Kyle. This will take a lot of really perfect information, which we can think about how much information that they have. I do think Kyle and Camilla have all the information because at the point when their vote is stolen, they know that they're up against that and they know what they have. So they can game it.

So we can talk about like how much information or what they're protecting against, what the California boys would do. But yeah, if they pile four, zero, or even better split three, one, it means that, yeah, if there's no extra vote, then they are splitting on what would be a 3-1-1. And if there isn't a split, if they have an extra vote, which they do, but it gives them

a chance at Kyle. And then Kyle has to choose between, wait, so am I trying to protect Camilla and shore it up on the 2-2? Am I trying to protect the person whose vote was stolen to shore up the 2-2? Or am I then worried they're going to pile on me or like mass split on me with a cause-e split at that point assuming there's an extra vote? And now maybe they just vote me out of the game and that becomes the game of chicken where it's like do I want to protect her? Try to get to the 2-2? Am I protecting myself because they probably will pile on me and I think they're incentivized, we'll talk about it, to pile on at that point the person who they haven't stolen from.

Wait, is the person they have or haven't stolen from? I got so close. No, I think- Yeah, the point where they pile on the person they've actually stolen from, which would be at that point we're talking about it as if it's Kyle. But Kyle's been stolen from. He's either going to give Camilla the extra vote and protect her so she can get to the two-two, or he's going to protect himself thinking, well, I don't even have a shot in the dark now.

What if they just pile fully on me in a 3-1 or a 4-0-3-1 is better? And that becomes the game of chicken. OK, that was the journey. And I think that might be the end of the journey. No, no, no, that was a great journey, Shannon. And I've aged. I've aged too. We've all aged because it's been hours, right?

But also in no stress. I so, no, no, no, but it's, I think that that breaks it down really well. And I think when you look at it from a point of view of let's, let's assume that they don't have, um, an extra vote or anything like that. And then I, that's when I think the three one comes into play because you go, yeah, we're going to steal one of their votes and we're going to put one more in because we're assuming that they've only got two votes now They've only got one. There's nothing they can do. We're gonna that's how we're gonna look at it and break it down but I don't think

like I Think that we don't know Ryan is when when the vote is stolen from someone Does that then change who they? Carl puts the idol on? Because that, that psychologically is the whole point of like, hang on. Okay. Now we know she doesn't have a vote anymore. So is that now they're more likely to dump votes on her and go all in on her.

And now should I play it on her? But now I'm opening up and that's when you, that's when you test their resolve to be like, are you game enough to put your game on the line to save her when it could be you going home? And that would have been really interesting. And I think that's the psychological thing to see who breaks and who blinks in that regard once they know that there is actually something happening. I do think Kyle should then play it on himself because I think that the California girls have been saying California boys, they're a man's alliance, but California girls are incentivized to do the 3-1 because again, like if I mean, if

there's, if you're just scared of an idol, then you do the 2-2-2. But you know that if there's an extra vote, which again, is that it's a distinct possibility because Camilla's been on the journey, you know that that can get it to the 2-2. So I think that you want to do that because again, without an extra vote, the 3-1 is a fine split. And with the extra vote, it could go to a 2-2-2, which is bad anyway. So either way, I think the 3-1 is better. And then you're hoping that Kyle doesn't play it on himself or that he doesn't protect the person whose vote was stolen. But then can Kyle anticipate that, that they're incentivized to do that to try not get to the 2-2-2 and play as idle and what at that point wouldn't be a split because they'd have

two votes to come over the top of an idle negating a 2-1. Basically, where I got to in the journey was it was like, wow, Thomas would definitely win if he stole. Then it was like, poor Thomas, he could never win if he stole. Then it was like, Thomas could win, but it's a slim, tiny little gap. And that's where I got to in the end. Now, I'm very glad that Thomas didn't, thank you. Please, applause isn't necessary. I'm very glad that Thomas didn't play the vote, that he didn't play it. Because again, that would be the better move. And I feel like he was snowed by more human elements that we've spoken about where they don't even believe that they're together, where he's making wrong decisions based on the fact that he hasn't shared information.

Like I would, I much prefer when people make more human decisions or are doomed by more human decisions or are doomed by the gameplay of people rather than it feeling like this whole like locked up trinket game. And that is what we got. And I did enjoy the episode, but I do think as well that like trying to game all of this again

on rules we're not even super sure about and are making assumptions about is quite difficult. But where I get to is, yes, Thomas should have taken the shot, but the shot wasn't as good as I first thought, but not as dire as I second thought, and it was in the middle. And I think that's it. But if tomorrow I wake up and there was another part of the journey, I'm going to be so irritated. I'm going to record another small little five minute podcast. I'm going to release it on the feed, and I'm going to be so irritated. I'm going to record another small little five minute podcast. I'm going to release it on the feed.

And I'm going to be like, this is actually the thing. Okay, great. No, Shannon, there is not another layer. This is not inception. We're not going to the hospital. We're not in the hospital. Can you think of another layer here? No, we are not.

We're not. We're going at regular speed. Time is not slowing down. Get your little spitting top out, Shannon, and spit it on the table to make sure you're not trying to be... There's no more layers here. There is no more layers.

Okay. But what I do think is really interesting, like if you look and let's zoom out for a second and look at all the tribes after this sort of swap happened, all the fun, interesting dynamics and relationship stuff is no one is talking about in terms of the breakdowns, oh what if they've got this and this could be an extra vote and stuff like that. People are breaking off and forming new alliances because of relationships and personal things and this to me just shows you how much you don't need these other elements in the game to make it interesting. People are jumping ship, People are going, I actually hate star. I would actually want to work with you guys.

All these little breakdowns are not because people are going, oh, I'm really worried that stars got an extra vote and this person's here. So we have to do this. It's going, I don't like this person. Or we both have a stutter. So we're going to get on. But that's different to what this like. These are the interesting things. And I think like the idol is it is such a perfect tool for this game. And if you look at what would have happened to this vote, if we just had an idol, doesn't

it turn out exactly the same? Yes. Because at that point, it's on the fact that Kyle was doing really good work being like me and David are really tight and being threatening to the laggy men so that they would target him. I mean, they did again have this extra vote to protect in case that wasn't it, but they were doing good work to make Kyle the target to protect him and the raid was good as well.

It just, it can't be a hundred percent sure. And that's why you have the insurance of the extra vote. And then the vote still comes into it, but you're right. I mean, all those human elements are why I'm enjoying it. And we can talk about it, because I want to talk about something from last week where like, you know, Say and Cedric are incentivized to turn on each other

actually from last week. But again, it's the relationship between Say and Cedric. And that whole thing was Cedric's battle of relationships between Justin and Say more than it was like the prisoner's dilemma of incentives, which I still think is really interesting, which we will talk about. But I think that that is it as well. Like there's, you are right that that's been it. But all of the stuff is important still think is really interesting, which we will talk about. But I think that that is it as well. You are right that that's been it. But all

of the stuff is important because this is the stuff that it gets down to the fact where how much can relationships play out when people lose votes or have votes stolen, et cetera, et cetera. You might want that, but the game is going to possibly break you, me personally, and maybe them at a point as much as you want it to be about relationships. Yeah. And also, you mentioned Cedric and Saida. Like, obviously, the quote and edit of the episode was Cedric saying, look, if there's one thing he means I have, it's loyalty. Cut to her going, I can't trust Cedric. I'm out on Cedric. Cedric Yeah, because he's so bad.

Jason Vale Yeah, and it just shows you like, if you're going to put someone in a position like this and then backtrack, you never do half measures. You go full measures. You take people out when you're going to take them out because all it does is come back and bite you in the bottom. And that's exactly what happens with their relationship. Wondering if like the journey made sense.

I think it made sense. I think it made sense more than the New Era journeys have made sense. So that's the barometer that we're at. I think with Thomas, it is very interesting because he said in the exits that he was chosen from Laghi to go on the journey that he went on. Obviously, they gamed the game in terms of they probably just pick numbers and he was so much in the middle of it that they let you go. As we're talking, very interesting. It looks like it's a game where you pick numbers one to five, but if you want to, you can all actually just choose what numbers you put out and actually just

send Thomas over. And I think that speaks to the good positioning that he had in Lagos, but he didn't maximize it. Like then take your advantage to the California girls. Yeah. So again, it was on some margins, but it really felt like hiding the advantage to begin with, much like Justin and Cedric last week, like hiding that definitely play, like was maximized to like it's full detriment for these players.

Correct. Yeah, correct. A hundred percent. And it just, it just, again, if you're in an alliance, you need to know, and they talk about this all the time, information is currency over there, but you need to know the tools at your disposal if you're going to plan a vote. And if there are certain people that are really good

at running, like they talk about Fishback on Second Chances, you give him the votes and he puts them in the calculator and he goes, and he spits out at what is, but that only works if you have all the information. That only works if you know where the extra votes are and the stiller votes are, then you can process that. And if you're missing key pieces of the puzzle, that's when people make mistakes. And we can see that the boys made like, well, we've gone on the journey, so maybe they didn't make too many mistakes. But ultimately, if they'd known more information, they could have made a better choice. And I think, like you said before, I'm actually glad that Thomas was the one that went home

because he was the one that had that opportunity that made those mistakes. I think he got blinded by emotion as well. He was all very, very much like, oh, now we're just going to, we're just going to burn this bridge and just get rid of them. And, and Camilla's trying to come after me and I'm just going to get rid of her. And I think he got a bit one sided on that regard. So yeah, I think honestly, just for the, the idea of a three, three, where you know that there's a distinct possibility she has an extra vote

from the journey, that you're aware of what they did on the journey. Just on that alone, just to not have the leverage, to lose the leverage on rocks, enough would be, not even all the layers we went down, but again, they don't think they're going to rocks for each other. They don't even think they're working with each other, which is again, the human element of how they did so well. It's just like classic lying, all of this type of strategy that is beyond what happens on a re-vote. I get that. And I think that that is good. But I do, I want to talk about this for in general, because again, I think the Siva-Lagi war is so interesting. The Siva have ended up a minority on every tribe, two people across every tribe. And yet I really feel like

they will have the numbers. Obviously, Karl and Camilla have won the day today to get to a two-two. And I don't know if this tribe will lose again, but I never thought they'd lose even once. That's where we're at. Again, they're helped by the fact that Mitch has the information that helped them choose a target, that he gave them the information, that they use the information. I really think SEVA are going to win the day. I think that we're going to get a winner from SEVA. I think that it was silly not to draft someone from SEVA in the end.

Maybe it means that you have the worst draft team in draft history for someone on the podcast. I don't want to mention who. But I do think like it's very interesting because even like Chrissy and Mitch, who haven't worked together, are working together. And look at the way Chrissy's going after Bianca because she's laggy.

Like look at how they're already trying to do that. And then we have Star and Eva. I mean, Eva particularly throwing, you know, Star under the bus. And I agree with Steven who said on Know It Alls, don't say she's at the bottom. Like now they're going to vote you out. They're trying to take at large. I thought, I think that SEVA have it locked down. The only fracture is David looking to come for charity. What do you feel about that being like the crack in SEVA for the fact that David is doing that. But I think the other thing that you step over though is the Cedric and Mitch

are bonding over their- Yeah, and that's a good thing to bring in. And I think that adds another element to that because if a push comes to shove, I actually think like Mitch and Chrissie have even talked about that. Chrissie said like, oh, me and Mitch have never talked strategy. We were never like on board with each other. Suddenly Mitch is talking to Cedric and they're opening up to each other and they're finding this connection.

And this is amazing. These are the kinds of things that you can't fake out there. These are the kinds of relationships that shift alliances and shift in tribal dynamics because you suddenly go, you know what, I connect way more with Cedric than I do with Chrissie. And all I'm doing is sticking with her because of this arbitrary group that we got put in at the start. So I think that is really interesting. I think the Dave of it all, Dave is aware of charity.

He says in his confessional, he goes, yeah, she just thinks that she has no idea what her position is. She just thinks she's like running me and everything like that. And again, I feel like he's super sincere with Eva in that regard. So I don't think it's going to come down to a tribe split where it is going to be an all out war. I think what we're seeing from how these groups are played out,

and it's actually crazy how many people have sort of come in and going, I've come in with this person, but I don't really like them. Eva comes in, yeah, I'm with Star, but I don't really like her. Dave's like, yeah, I'll get rid of charity if we want to. This is not gonna be a tribal alliance. Really?

Moving forward Shannon. I really don't think, I think I can see too many seeds of actual relationships. What's gonna happen is when they do merge and they come back together, it's going to be that thing where you cannot come to a consensus vote, because whoever you go for, there is someone in your group

that has a connection with them. So they're gonna come come together and they're going to say like, oh yep, Dave, yep, we're going Eva and the day's like, well no, I've sort of got a little thing with it. And so then he doesn't want to do that. And it would become one of those relationships where everyone is connected to everyone. And that's when things start blowing up. And that's when it's going to become really interesting. But yeah, I don't think it's going to be a tribal alliance at all. I do. And here's why. I think the CIV Four that we saw of David, Chrissy, Camilla, and Karl, now we've had the massive win, could be our new Reba Four. I think that you see Mitch, I mean, Mitch is still part of that. He's given them information. They were the most congenial tribe.

There's an extra, there's a secret scene, this episode where they're like all singing in the rain when they're raining. This is the Kumbaya tribe. And if Mitch is bringing in a Cedric and if David is bringing in a Mary, as we've seen, everyone loves David, I think that there's a lot of potential here. I just would get rid of charity later. If I was David, I do criticize him for wanting to and immediately throwing charity under the bus because you want to get rid of charity in a seafood spot. I don't think he needs to do it now, especially because she is trying to work with David. As much as charity, I want to say is really annoying about this. This is a pet peeve. I might have another pet peeve I really want to talk about because she's like, David's not even playing. I mean, she's full on underestimating David who has completely reading her, but it's

so irritating that she's like, David's not playing and I'm playing. Like, why are you playing and David's not playing? Actually, David was in two majorities and you were completely on the outs. What is playing? Is playing just being very aggressive and putting people off and now you're the strategist, like David is loved in every group on SEVA and the swap group. It seems like he's playing and you are completely judging the book by its cover. Shannon, it's a little thing called self-awareness. And some people have this thing and some people do not have this thing.

She does not have this thing. She does not have this thing. She has no idea how she's perceived in the wider group. She has no idea how Dave perceives her. She has no idea her position in the tribe. Like this is, this is the person that you get rid of. If Dave's not liking her and he's finding a better connection with Eva, this is, this is he, I, I fully expect her to go home at some point. She is, yeah, she's too blocked by her own ego. She's too unsub, because who else is in that tribe?

It's Dave, Eva, Kary, and Star. It's Charity, David, and it's Mary, and Eva, and Star. Oh, and Mary. Yeah, Mary. Because Mary, and Mary, there was a secret scene as well. Mary like loves David. Mary loves David, and that's locked in. So I think David, Eva, and Mary can run that tribe,. So I think, I think David, Eva and Mary can run that tribe and they can drop.

I think who are they going to drop first, charity or star though? Well, that's the thing is I think if push comes to shove for sure, drop charity, but I would let Eva and star come for each other more where you either like pick up an Eva or you really break laggy by taking out an Eva and going with star and picking up a star who was so on the arts of laggy. Like I think from a macro perspective, I would much rather do that. And if it comes to it, take out a charity, but I wouldn't push it first because I do think that Siva, I mean, they haven't lost a member yet. They seem like they could be in a position where they never have to lose a member. And I think if

he sees that Camilla and Carl have survived through this, also knowing that they have the idol and the extra vote, he knows the trinkets that they have. So even the three to two, he wouldn't think that they're necessarily doomed. Surely if he sees that they get a win, it's like, let's just keep riding the sea wave. And for sure you're gonna cut charity, but around like, make a piece of very easy, mergatory vote, like wonderful fodder for a mergatory vote.

I don't think you need to, it's not, you know, like so dire that you have to get rid of her now. If anything, she thinks she's working with David, you have her exactly where you want her. And she's completely underestimating you. And let her like, you know, tell her own stories in her mind while you like are actually playing the game in ways that she doesn't perceive as playing the game. She doesn't have any advantage. She doesn't have

any advantage. She's a nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So there's no threat to sort of blow up anything or do anything like that. So that's, that is where all of the SEVA advantages where he knows that he's on laggy now and Star has the, he's been told that information, which seems true. He knew where the SEVA idol was, wasn't with Charity. He knew who went on all the journeys, it wasn't Charity. Like she's, you know, just fought her, fought her for a mercatory.

And Mary's in a really good spot there. I think Mary's actually going to go pretty deep in the game now. And I love Mary. She's a straight shooter. She is so much fun on screen. So I'm really pumped that she's going to be in for a long haul here. It's going to be, it's going to be really good. I really want Say and Mary to make it back to each other. The note

that Say left for Mary that said Mary, I had a tweet that was like, it was really sweet that she had to put Mary's name because who else would it be for? Mary, like gone fishing, gone idol hunting, was so cute. So endearing to me. And then she yells out, Mary, I left a note for you. It's so cute. It was so, so, so sweet. I really, really enjoyed that dynamic and I would love to see that go further. The worst possible thing from a storytelling perspective would be one of them getting cut before they can make it back to each other when this has been such an interesting dynamic through the pre-swap. But it does seem like they are both in a good enough spot where that won't be necessary. You know, Cedric is even wanting to work with Seyi as we've seen and Bianca really seems like she'll be on the outs there.

So it doesn't feel like Seyi is an immediate target. I don't know, but Se Se has mentioned to Bianca like, Hey, I'm not all in on Cedric. Do a vibe check. I love the vibe check reference. Do a vibe check on him. And she was really saying to throw him under the bus, but the Cedric and Mitch connection is growing by the day.

And Mitch wants to work with Se. So it's not, that's not that bad for Se. Yeah. Yeah. But if Cedric finds out that Say has been throwing his name out there and actually he's turning on him and actually he's pretty keen to get rid of him, then I think Say is on the wrong side of everything because I don't think, like then Bianca is more incentivized to be like, actually, maybe Say's the ship that's sinking and I need to switch over here. It just depends where Chrissie's head's at.

Chrissie may just be like, well, yeah, I'm just going to stick with Mitch. I don't know. We don't have a lot in common. And then it becomes a Mitch, Chrissie, Cedric majority. And then I think Bianca then gets on that and they tell everyone, comes out that Cy's burning bridges with Cedric and then she goes home. So I think there actually is a risk that she could go home. Really? I mean, that is the concern that it gets back to Cedric and then she goes home. So I think there actually is a risk that she could go home. Really? I mean that is the concern that it gets back to Cedric. Firstly, I do think Cedric is such a straight shooter that he might be like,

I feel bad about her last week, but you should be mad at me. Like surely he could have some self-awareness as a fact that that was very much his fault. He really like, yeah, voted for her twice and then kept her in the game. I also do think that this is very rightly set on Bianca because of the laggy, Siva war. Like, Vula are numbers to pick up in the war and like maybe that'll be- I also do think that Triss is very rightly set on Bianca because of the Laghi-Siever War. Vula are numbers to pick up in the war. Yeah, Trissie was very against it. Yeah, you're right, actually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If the people that are going back to tribal council somehow win out and Laghi start to be defanged, or if we see one of Yvral Star go home, maybe that becomes less of an issue and they get down to four people and now it's like it's you know completely irrelevant compared to to Vula at a point maybe the war's you know fighting itself like and winning itself without them even doing it but yeah I mean I think it should be okay because anyway when are they merging is they like one book till they merge probably? It probably is you know yeah the thing with Chrissie as well she does strike me as an old

school player that he's very tribal lines. She is that person that is, no, no, no, this was our group. We're going to stick together. We're going to get to the end. Where some of these other guys don't strike me is that, like, I think Camilla, if she could find another group and other people to connect with, she will definitely use them. But yeah, you're right. Chrissie will be the one banging the drum of guys that stick together.

Let's move forward as a group. So that'll be interesting to see how that pans out. It is interesting because again, I think that we'll probably merge after the next vote. So they're very close, say, and Mary to getting back to each other, which I would love. Eden, will you indulge me in talking about something from last week? I'm going to I want to go back to last week. And again, if there's more on my journey this week, we'll talk about it next week. No, it's seriously we need to stop. It's bad. But this was just something that was brought up to me

by a listener, Nutty, through the week that I thought was really interesting about something we've spoken about to death, which was this tribal council, but Say and Cedric voting in the revote, when they know that they can probably tell that Justin doesn't have a vote. There've been two merry votes that have been negated, not a third. And Justin is the one that went on the journey. Two plus two equals four. If it's the two of you, say in Cedric, should have turned on each other. It actually may be a perfect prisoner's dilemma.

And I do love finding perfect prisoner's dilemmas in the wild. Can I explain? Can we go on another journey through the prisoner's dilemma? Yeah, let's go on another journey. I'll get my pilot tat on this time and we'll go up in the air. Okay, let's do it. So obviously in a perfect Prison Silemma, you are incentivized to betray each other for Say and Cedric.

So if you're Say as an example, the top thing that you can do is betray Cedric and he tries to collaborate with you and you win the day. In this world, that would mean that you voted Cedric, he voted Justin as the collaboration. That means it's a Cedric-Justin tie, and Sey would then choose which of the two of them go home. So that would be the best case scenario. Or second best, you collaborate with each other, perfect prison dilemma, Justin goes home. Third best, you betray each other, Sey v Cedric, we don't know what would happen here. But Sey, it is they go to fire, which is what I think it should be. Now it's like, okay, so she has full control, betraying collaborate with each

other, Justin goes home, betray each other, you have a chance at fire, be betrayed and collaborate Cedric as we saw had all the power that was when she voted for Justin and he voted for say, so and you can reverse it for Cedric perfect prisoners dilemma. Now we don't know what would happen if it was a save the Cedric tie, if they both betrayed each other. Either they go to fire, we thought, maybe, or maybe Justin is order rocked out.

I did rewatch the 42 Jenny Tribal Council, and Chanel and Mike would, were going to also draw a rock. So it is possible that Justin would have to get order rocked out because he can't decide who to vote for because he doesn't have a vote. But he is meant to be a rock pickerer and he would get order rocked out. And in that way, it's actually not a perfect prisoner's dilemma, but it's even clearer to betray because then if you're betraying, it means you either have full control or you both could betray each other and Justin goes.

And if you collaborate, Justin goes. But if you are betrayed and you collaborate, the other person has full power. So it's never made more sense than to just betray and maybe even Justin goes anyway, or you have full power. So it's never made more sense than to just betray and maybe even Justin goes anyway, or you have full power. Didn't Keith find himself in that position where he would be the only one that would have to draw a rock and he would have gone home if he didn't change his vote? Well, Cedric, you know, technically could have been the only rock picker last week.

But that has a precedent. That has a precedent because they did say that they said. Well, no, because in this situation, Justin doesn't have a vote like a vote. He still had a vote, but everyone else who had a vote was immune. So he was the only one, but he still could be like, you know, like he could still try and take it to the unanimous decision. If like someone like Kelly was like, no, Kelly could have actually decided like, no, I'd actually rather have Kimi and auto rocked Keith out of the game. So that's a bit different because that was on him being the only vulnerable

target in a multi rock discussion. It wasn't on someone like Cedric being the only person in the rock discussion and the only rock picker. This situation with Justin would make him the only rock picker who cannot actually come to unanimous decision for rocks because he does never vote, which I would hate. But it is really interesting that they, in a prisoner's dilemma, social stuff aside, should have turned on each other. And maybe I should be harsher on the fact that Say didn't vote for Cedric.

Now, is she going through the prisoner's dilemma at the time? Probably not because it takes a pen and paper. She can try to do it in sticks like the note, but it is difficult. I got Mary, Mary, hang on. I've got to put this in sticks on the ground. Yeah, literally. My women worked this out. And it's like, Mary, what is the prison's limit?

But I think maybe if she'd known everything, maybe I should be harsher on say, because I've said she'd been playing at 100 playing at 100 is actually voting for Cedric, which was optimal. She's they incentivize to turn on each other. Now, Cedric did vote for her again. I don't think this is a prison dilemma because of the relationships, but it is really interesting to know that say should have turned on Cedric. And a point on this as well is that the reason that he brought it to me

was because he was like, this shows that Justin should get order rocked out because you wouldn't want because they're incentivized to turn on each other. It's not really fair that Justin has an advantage because he doesn't have a vote where they're incentivized not to vote for Justin. But I think still, I hate the idea of being order rocked out for Justin where he doesn't have a chance to contribute

to the rock discussion and then just picks a rock. And I think that like that tiny loophole incentive beyond social relationships to not vote for him is quite minor to losing all of his agency. And I also really liked that that would then make it a perfect prison dilemma with fire. I don't know, people, are you following this? Is this business being good? No, no, no, it's a wild ride and we'd love every monologue because this is what people

come to this podcast to discuss and talk about. They can go to the Vibe Check podcast, they can go to all other things, but here they want to be bombarded with every possible outcome. No stone will be unturned, no stick will be left unpicked up because this is what the people want. You're giving the people what they want, Shannon. And I love it. I love it. No one's saying they want it. I want it. And I'm doing what I want. I love the idea of saying I bombard them. That's it. That's me. I'm a bombard. It's like that, you know, like, I'm a pusher, Katie. I'm a bombarder. And that's what I've done with this. But the people who like it would look, because I'm like, I love finding a perfect prison dilemma in the wild. And this was a perfectmma. And what I take from it is that Say should have turned on Cedric even earlier than she has clearly done now.

So the good thing about this, I know what to get you for your birthday now. What? A Prisoner's Dilemma, a perfect one in the wild. Okay. I'll somehow manage to manipulate it. Yeah. Engineering your life for your birthday. And at the end, someone's going to come're in your life for your birthday.

And at the end, so it's going to come out and say like, happy birthday. And you go like, oh my God, this is the best present ever. It's going to be. Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's so cool. My birthday is in 11 months. Yeah. But think about it for the future.

I've got to play. I've got to play that. I've got to hire some actors and everything. Shannon, just watch out. Watch out. What else? You tell me what else you have, because I have some questions and everything Shannon. Just watch out. Watch out. What else? You tell me what else you have because I have some questions and I have the cheesy, but if you have anything else that you want to, did you have other prison dilemmas that you

wanted to get to from weeks ago? Did you have other things from other episodes that you still want to bring up now? I've got a whole other prisoner podcast documentary that we can go through, but that's no, we'll stick to this. McDonald's new cheesy jalapeno and bacon quarter pounder with 100% Canadian beef is here. But that's no, you'll love our cheesy jalapeno and bacon quarter pounder. Get this beefy, bold, bacony, melty mouthful only at McDonald's for a limited time. This episode is brought to you by Samsung Galaxy. Ever captured a great night video only for it to be ruined by that one noisy talker?

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everything takes on a creamy, delicious, chocolatey glow. Like that pile of laundry. You didn't forget to fold it. No, it's a new trend. Wrinkled cheek. Feel the aerobubbles melt. It's mind-bubbling. I think there were a couple other things

Yes. that we touched on, yeah, the perfect form of lying, the train wreck tribe, I think we've touched on a lot of that. The other breakdown, is there any tribe that we didn't do as much on? I don't think so because obviously we've done two extremes every week. Oh, that's good. Oh, actually, no. Yeah, we have the-

There is something. Oh, yes. There is something. It is. Now some alliances are made through, I don't know, a shared upbringing or some sort of cultural background. Holes? Maybe loving the movie Holes, exactly. But there are some alliances that are formed just through the love of jet skis. Oh my god.

Is that what Eva said? Like she said we both love jet skis. Yes. Did you watch Loki season two? Yes, this is what I was thinking at the time. Oh my god, it was, I was like, this is the tweet. No one cared about my increasingly incorrect tweets through the night. Movies like on a jet ski. Exactly, the Owen Wilson character who loves jet skis

was exactly what I was thinking about. I wanted to tweet them and then the Owen Wilson character and then be like, you know, they all love Jeskies, but then I didn't know if that would be more niche than I get by increasingly incorrect journey tweets, but... I would have liked it. I would have liked it. I would have liked and subscribed if you'd posted that. Thank you so much. You understand the influencing, is it Morbius? Is that the Owen Wilson character? Morbius? influencing? Is it Morbius? Is that the Owen Wilson character? Morbius? Yeah, Morbius. Morbius. Morbius. Morbius. He's known as Morbius. Because he influenced Peter so hard on Key Lime Pie that when we were in New York,

we searched for a whole day and then we did get Key Lime Pie. But then when we went on our Disney cruise a few weeks ago, it said that there was Key Lime Pie and we looked all cruise and there wasn't Key Lime Pie, but he started something in this household about key lime pie and but not about jet skis. But that is something that maybe Peter could bond over someone with is a key lime pie. But the jet ski thing was specific. The jet ski thing is wild, but this is me. This is what I like to drill down on Shannon.

I know, we've gone through everything else, but the other thing I want to touch on, I've touched on jet skis. David, he hates water, but he loves chocolate milk. He loves chocolate milk. Huge cosign, by the way. David has all green flags, just by the by. He's the king of the green flags.

He's got his 24 inch python arms. Although he does have money troubles, so watch out there. Poor man, but love can conquer all. Love can conquer all. He reminds me of, you know, did you see Deadpool, Wolverine, Nice Pool? Yeah. Oh yeah.

He's very got Nice Pool vibes, which is amazing. But I am a fellow lover of Chocolate Milk, Dave. So I'm just going to put it out to the world. Yes. I'm going on a bit of a tangent here, Shan. Did you used to have lunch orders at school? Like at primary school? Yeah, lunch orders, I don't know, we had a canteen.

So what you would do is one day a week, it was usually Mondays or Fridays, you would get a little brown paper bag and you would write on it your food order. That does seem familiar. And then mum would put money in an envelope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you would hand it in at the start of the day,

it would go off and it would magically get filled and someone's job would go and grab the basket, come back into the classroom and hand out all the lunches and stuff. And I can tell you, for six years of my life, on Monday morning lunch orders, I would have one jumbo sausage roll, one small bag of Ovaltinis and one big M chocolate. Big M. Oh my God. That was my lunch every Monday in that lunch order. And so I shout out to the to the big M chocolate drinkers of the world. OK, if we can't bond on holes, which, by the way, crime against humanity, but we can bond on this. David, huge cosine, I hate water.

I don't drink water. Sometimes I'll have a headache, which is often, like last night with 3AM, people will be like, go get some water. I'd be like, I'd rather die. It's actually medically terrible in many different ways. I don't drink nearly enough water. Chocolate milk or nothing.

I love chocolate milk, but you know what's better than chocolate milk? Strawberry milk. Strawberry milk. Incorrect, Shannon, incorrect. No. Take your strawberry milk, go watch Holes. Get out of this podcast. That is outrageous. Strawberry flavored milk? Strawberry milk. Incorrect, Shannon. Incorrect. No. Take your strawberry milk.

Go watch Holes. Get out of this podcast. That is outrageous. Strawberry flavored milk? Yes. Strawberry milk is amazing. Have you had it? Have you tried?

Or you just like not having it? I can tell you right now. Once I find something I like, I never change, Shannon. Once I tasted again, I got good. You tried it one time. Promise me you'll do it this weekend. Okay. I'll do it for you.

Promise me. I'll live stream it for you, Shannon. I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you. I'll one time. Okay. Well, I promise me, maybe I'll do it. Okay. I'll do it for you. Oh, live. Oh, live stream it for you. Me try. Yes. I'm telling you, you play with it. Yes. This is how I know I'm my father's daughter. My dad loves strawberry milk and I also just drink strawberry milk and I hate water. If I was on survivor, I would get so dehydrated, which I honestly kind of do in real life because I will not drink water. I would rather die. It is so bland. Literally, that would be my choice. It was someone on Survivor New Zealand who

refused to eat the rice anymore. This was Adam. So he just kind of starved. That would be me. If I don't want to eat something, I just won't eat. I just won't drink water. And it's very, very... I'm like a child actually, I'm drinking my strawberry milk. I'm talking about the excuse. It's been so good. I would have loved to just filled your water bottle up with strawberry milk out of the island. You'd be loving it out there.

100%. You need to trick me into eating my vegetables. You need to trick me into eating fruit. You need to trick me into drinking water. I'm a very, very unhealthy person, Eden. I don't know how to tell you this, but yeah. So I'll tell you what you do is, and we do this with my two and a half year old,

Phoenix, at the moment. Very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, but we will crush up, we've got like vegetables and stuff that we will blend up in it. And he has no idea that they're in there. And we put a little bit of like cocoa chocolate powder in there to make it all nice. And we put some banana in there. But we put the fruit and we put all that in there and he drinks it and he has no idea. If I give him any fruit, he's not eating any fruit at all. So we have to get him in it through his smoothie. So I'll pass the recipe on and you'll be healthier in no days.

Yeah. When I was a child, the pediatrician told my mom that the way to get me to eat vegetables was to put some sugar on the vegetables. I still do this sometimes. I still do this on squash. I don't know if that's a thing in Australia, but there's a big thing in South Africa. We still have it here and I have it with butter and squash. It's so unhealthy. Yeah. Do you know what I do? I shouldn't be admitting this. You know, cinnamon donuts, you know, like plain cinnamon donuts? Yeah. So I would get a bowl of sugar and I would dip the cinnamon donut in the sugar to get more sugar on it before I ate it. I respect that. That is a sugar ejections directly into your bloodstream right there.

It was wild. When I was at camp, I remember there was like terrible camp food and I remember I would just go get packets of sugar, just eat the sugar straight. It was very unhealthy. That was, to be fair, I was 10, but I might still do that today. Shadid, we're going out to play sports with everyone. No, I'm okay. I've just got a packet of sugar.

Literally. The food was so bland. I've just got a bag of sugar. Literally. In the bug bed. The food was so bland. I was just eating packets of sugar. Now, will this chocolate milk obsession, which again, David, is 10 out of 10 correct, well, but strawberry better, they're both good. Will it come to fruition where there's like a reward? The sanctuary with chocolate milk and David's like, oh my God!

Because he hasn't drunk water and he hasn't drunk anything in like weeks. I think maybe we're gonna see this play out. I think it's advantageous. Any future Survivor players, talk about your favorite food out there, get it out into the world, because there is a chance, there is a non-zero chance that production out there will pick up what you're putting down.

And one of the rewards of something will be a packet of barbecue shapes, a chocolate milk, a cup of tea, like just something out there, Snickers bar, put it out into the world. Don't, don't just rely on them coming up with, I don't know, KFC or something like that. Really put it into the world what you actually want to eat. And I think it will come true. Yeah. 100%. For me, it would be like, like a toddler's menu.

And they would be like, we're going to the candy store. I'd be like, yeah, that's what I want. That's seven, the sanctuary. They all have their little menus and then someone slides across the kids menu there. Shannon, you can get strawberry milk. I have the nuggets. Yeah. Yeah.

Sugar. Exactly. If the reward was like veggies, I'd be like pass. I'd rather not. I'd rather starve. I'd rather die. I, it seems like I'm being extreme when I'm joking. I assure you I'm not.

It's genuinely a concern. Like it's not a good situation. But you will have strawberry milk this weekend and maybe you'll rewatch Holes and maybe you'll see that it was better than you. Okay, I'm going to send you a photo of me in my cinema room watching Holes. Good. Dr drinking a strawberry,

What a Saturday, what a wonderful day. What a Saturday night, mate. Incredible. I have to watch Severance first. I haven't watched Severance yet. Oh my God, I know, I'm also because- I'm having this, I'm doing this podcast with you. That is so-

Instead of watching Severance, can you believe this friendship level we've got here? You're amazing. I'm doing that on my own podcast and I'm annoyed about it because I also like Severance and I'm like, even before I could have watched it, but I'm like, but I had the revert rules in my head. I'm like, I won't be enjoying it because I'll be like Severance to not be watching it, but I'm like, we'll do it tomorrow when I can like get this all, all my

thoughts out and be done with it. But it's so kind of you to be a guest when you could instead be watching the Severance finale. Like thank you. Genuinely. Thank you so much so good so good Shannon of course of course maybe then we can go and watch the Severance finale it's very late we probably won't but I'm tempted honestly One, two, three. Okay, what are we? One, two, three. One, two, three. It's getting, it's getting, it's getting kinda cheesy.

Three, two, one. What are we thinking? That is great. That is great. Okay, I think there's some obvious people here. Yeah, it is quite obvious, I think. Yeah. Yeah, two of the people played this episode,

some would say perfectly. Oh, I have a chart actually. Yeah, and I think I just- New viewers? New viewers? Oh yeah, there you go. Oh, there you go. Oh yeah, I like that. It just depends who we think did more on my end. And I think it's Camilla. I think she planted more seeds. She was the one that sort of put out there that she was on the bottom of the tribe.

She was the one that immediately said, I'm going to give you my extra vote. I just think she was doing a lot of maneuver. Kyle was also great. And I actually want to give him a couple of points as well. But I think my top has to be her because I just think she, I think they both, for what could have been a really dicey situation, they had the tools at their disposal and they managed to use them all perfectly to get the result that they needed. So I think it was pretty cool. Yeah, I agree. I think firstly, we saw Camilla was putting in so much work. She was doing the

work with Star on the bench. I'm trying to think about what challenge that was. Yes, let's look at that. Yeah. And was that at the point where Star was working with Thomas? Or maybe we don't know exactly when things happened in Laggy, but she gave all the information. She put the pressure. Then Camilla put the pressure on Thomas not to use the vote seal, which again had a slight chance possibly of working. I also feel like we have to remember that she got the idol for Kyle.

She was the one who worked it out. So you have to also- That's 100% true. Yeah. 100% true. And then, okay, so who else? Who else is in this? I do love as well that Star was like, I mean, Star was on the outs to be fair. And I think that it was unfortunate socially.

But then also apparently she'd been looking for idols and she kind of separated herself. But then also she's like on the bench giving the information away for Lagi. Like she was just like a mole the whole time. But yeah, I do think like as well Camilla started the narrative and Carl, as we said, we really liked the way that he added to the lie and he was like, no, it's fine. I really like you kind of way. Um, yeah. And the way he built up his alpha threat to Lagi to be the target, knowing he'd be immune was good. So that I'm,

I'm agreeing with you three to Camilla two to Carl for both of us, right? Yep. Yep. I have my one set in stone. Okay. Okay. You got that said. I haven't got my one set in stone. I'm still, I'm still ruminating. What's your one? My one is going to David because he's right about water and chocolate milk. No, because that is a point and he loves jet skis. No, but I think that everyone loves him through two tribes of just like total adoration. You have to that everyone loves him through two tribes of just like total adoration you have to commend it. Eva loves him, Mary loves him. Like I wouldn't throw away charity now and we'll see how it goes but I think just on positioning like I have to give a point to David. Yeah and so that I mean Camilla is now up to nine tying with Se and Kyle then gets put up to eight and David gets his first point.

Who are you giving a point to? Ooh, it's, it is tricky. I don't know. Dave, you make a really good case for Dave because he was the other one that sort of built that up. Maybe I'll, the other thing is it's just like not enough other people did enough in the episode to really warn it. I might actually go- You're never going to give to the California girls.

So- Yeah, well that's- Yeah, it becomes- Okay, maybe, maybe, no Cedric still under the bus. Mary, I feel like is in a really good position now, but I don't think she really did anything to deserve it. Look, maybe I'll give, maybe I'll give. I was thinking it's either Mitch or Eva for me.

I think Mitch, because both of them made connections outside their alliance pretty quickly. Yeah. I think Eva like clocked Dave and like, however you feel about it. She was just putting herself in front of star saying like, oh, let's get her a star. I might actually give it to Eva. I think I'm going to give her one point. I think she, she made a connection with David.

I think they made a genuine connection there and I think they got to build on it. And I think those, those two are going to be pretty safe moving forward. So yeah, I'm going to give Eva, I really like her as well. I think with Eva, it does feel counterintuitive to be like, she's on the bottom and it feels like they'll target you, but it also feels like it will work. Like it feels like David likes her, that that's more important. So I do think that's important. I think Mitch, Mitch, Honorable mentioned to Mitch, who Chrissy is wanting to work with Mitch and Mitch

having that connection with Cedric, but then you can't give Cedric because say it's so against. So it gets you covering more. Yeah, okay. So one point to Eva and then yeah, the point to David. I had a couple of questions from the listeners, Eden. Oh, great.

You told me. Okay, Matt Benjamin asked how he should vote for season 50 this week. Now, neither of us can vote, but we can campaign and advocate and we could get a VPN where we could vote. Should I do that? Should I care enough to do this?

The three- You definitely should because one vote could matter. I know. It is important. In Australia, it's compulsory voting, so we know that it's important to vote. But the three things, let's talk through it. So it's to have a swap or no swap. I feel like this is the easiest one, so I've started there. I enjoy a swap, so it's to have a swap or no swap.

I feel like this is the easiest one. So I've started there. Like we, I enjoy a swap personally. Like I always have a swap swap is great swap changing dynamics. We saw, this is a perfect example of how much fun a swap is. All these different dynamics, all these different things play out. And we are, we are gone. The Gong era is gone. It's no one is, no one is just going, okay, we're just going to vote off this. This is my right. Everyone's looking

for new alliances and new groups and it's really fun. That is a no-brainer. That is 100% keeping the swap in the game. Interesting as well with the two swaps that we've seen, 45 and 48 in the new era have come from the tribes losing all in a row. Like Lulusa and Vula. I think obviously they weren't intending to have swaps, but in a five vote pre-merge, they're probably worried, correctly so with probably both Lulu and Vula, that it will get to a point where it will get to a tribal council where it's like a Steph and Bobby John type situation. Yeah, that's exactly right. And then you go down and then they vote out and then they have to join the other tribe. Yeah.

So they probably don't want that. So it seems like that's what's triggered both swaps of the new era. Correct. Would they ever get in a situation, it gets down to two and you just send one to each other tribe? Well, that was what happened with Malcolm and Denise. Yeah. And they just, they just split. Do you go back to doing that?

They could do that. And then it's two tribes. You then have two tribes and that would be such a, Oh my God, imagine having two tribes shattered. They do get to the two groups when they split them in the merge. So I don't know how it's that different. So yeah, they mean they don't have to do that, but there are other options, but they, I think that that's what's been triggering swaps in these.

Yes, yeah, I agree. But I think we still trigger swaps. I think we're pro-swap. Definitely. We like the trigger. Yeah. Okay, very much pro-swap on this podcast. Then the other one, so there was the final four challenge. Now everyone was very excited to vote for Had Not a Hard Idol because obviously we love our history here as the nerdy super fans. but then the three options they gave were some motion. And then they gave the one that Ben won in 46,

which is like the ball is rolling down and you're doing like a puzzle. And then if the ball, you get a time penalty if the ball hits. So it's kind of like those two. Continue your puzzle if you've dropped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think one was like a big obstacle course.

So it's unfortunate because they're like, you choose. It's like, well, it's kind of like, this is like, you know, it's like the two party voting system. It's like, well, it's kind of like, this is like, you know, it's like the two party voting system. It's like, I don't want a different option. That's not one of the options, but I mean, I guess emotion, I don't know. It's emotion for me.

It's the closest thing we've got. Ever since token chains, I've gotten an affiliation with that challenge. I love it. I think it's really good. I think it's really fun. We did, I missed out on doing it in Titans versus Rebels. I think it was, they did a slightly different version. That was a biggest scale one.

You have to run up, drop it and run back down. I like the just small normal one where it just comes down to your hands. Yeah, that's what they had in the picture. I think that as well with, especially with that, like with the big one, obviously there's like a real, real big fitness component. I think with some motion, like it's concentration and like kind of like hand on a hard idol with like anyone can win on a given day. Like I remember like Romeo was the big surprise winning in 42.

So I do think yeah, so motion is kind of the closest thing we have, I guess, to that like classic. But there's still the element of like, you've got to time your balls, you got to, you should count But there's still the element of you've got to time your balls, you should count. There's still this, so it can reward people that know the game. Oh yeah, there you go. That should be charged too. It's still up for the non-viewers being confused. But the strategic element of this emotion is still there.

If you know, okay, I'm going to time how long the ball goes down. I know I have this many balls, I'm going to divide it by that to get my timings right. That rewards the person that knows that rather than the person that just comes in going like, oh, yeah, I'll just do this or I've just got really good hand-eye coordination. I think that's what I like about the challenge. I think it is one of those classic challenges that it's just a great watch, it's great for viewers and it's really exciting. But there is a strategic element that if you know how to play it, it does give you an advantage. Better than that one that Malcolm did, you know the one where you have to hold the ones

together and you get out. That doom siree, that doom Malcolm, I mean that haunts my nightmares. Yeah, that's terrible. Get rid of that trash. I do think as well, these aren't good options compared to something like Chronic Hand on a Heart, out of the season, like they're missing a trick. And like we see the way that those like, you know, massive like torture challenges in, in Australian survivor, like I think endurance, like a Palau type endurance for a final challenge about just how much do you want it?

How much can you, the mental fortitude that is, that's the last challenge. You're not thinking 4D here, Shannon. This is not the final challenge. This is the final four challenge. They're going to do a final two and the final three challenge is going to be Hands on the Heart Idol. I'm calling it right now. I'm calling it right now. Are you being serious? I'm being 100% serious. Eden, you haven't been heard enough by the show. it right now. It'll be a classic final two. Are you being serious? I'm being 100% serious. Eden, you haven't been heard enough by the show. No. It's happening. It's happening. I admire your optimism. I think it's foolish, but I wish I lived in a world where I could be so wrong, but optimistic as you are. Yeah, good. I'm glad we

agree. What was the last category, Shed? Now I'm just insulting you while you miss the Sephiroth's finale to be here. That's the kind of friend I am. And then this was hard because this was like advantages. I want to see if I have the actual terminology here. I do have it. Get the wording right. Get the wording right because it is important. The wording as you know is probably like choose what we want bitches. There's a lot of subtext. A lot of subtext in this. The wording, as you know, is probably like, choose what we want, bitches. Based on the way that they- There's a lot of subtext. A lot of subtext in this.

So here's actual, so they said more gameplay. Advantages are an exciting way to give players the power to influence the game. How much power do you want advantages to have in Survivor 50? But advantages are good, remember that. Minimal power. Minimal power.

I want advantages to be rare and limited in power, forcing the players to rely primarily on their strategic, social and physical abilities. Strategic power. I want advantages that are just powerful enough to create some uncertainty and risk, adding a layer of complexity for the players to deal with. And the third is dynamic power. I want to amplify the impact and fun of advantages so they offer enough power to shake up the

game so that even players on the bottom have a fighting chance." So this is like a three tiered level. Don't you love the sentence? So it gives even the players at the bottom a fighting chance to stay in there and make the game so amazing because your favorite is gonna be on the bottom. And if you haven't selected this,

then you are gonna be crying in your sleep when your favorite competitor is sent back. Like that's what I'm saying. Or it'll be boring, a boring steam roll. But if you want a steam roll, then I guess it'd be boring. I found this one really hard because I don't understand what it means. The idea of strategic advantages to me sounds good. Yeah, it's advantages that people can use in a strategic way, but it's like I don't

trust the show of what that means. I'm tempted to say obviously minimal because I want them to do as little as possible because I don't have trust in the show and I think that the show is broken. I'm really enjoying the season by the way. I complain every week. I want to say I am enjoying the season, but yes, I don't trust the show so that's why I want to do minimal. Strategic to me sounds good.

What is their version of strategic advantage? Possibly not mine. So I don't know what I'm voting for here. I feel like I need more information. I can't vote either. It's purposely vague. It's purposely vague. It's purposely vague. I'm going to go out there and go strategic because I think the strategic element of it sort of makes me think that it will be things that a

smart player can do to impact the game. You're so wrong. But the what was the bottom level called? What was that? Dynamic. The bottom level was dynamic. No, the bottom was minimal. Sorry, sorry. It's on the bottom of the vote. So it's not right. The least is minimal. The middle is strategic and the most is dynamic.

The one that can like help your fave so that it's not a boring scheme or all you boring borns in. Oh, well, if it stops me being boring, let's do that one. Yeah, I don't want to be boring. You want to be boring? Um, strategic sounds good, but then are they just getting me because it's so strategic? Oh, well, if it stops me being boring, let's do that one. Yeah, I don't want to be boring. You want to be bored? No, no. Strategic sounds good, but then are they just getting me because it's so strategic?

I think possibly this is very hard. How much do we trust the show? Should we limit their power as much as possible? Maybe we limit their powers as much as humanly possible. And so when they and so if they ever think that maybe we could get this this this necklace of power back in the game. They have to think twice because we voted for minimal.

It's just one of those ones that you, like what does that mean? What does that mean? You don't know, you don't know. It's just such a, that's such a nothing vote that one. Yeah, it's very tough because I'm not the kind of person who was like, we need to go back to basics. I don't feel that way.

But then I feel like if I give them an inch, they'll take a mile. So I'm like, maybe I give you nothing. I don't know. We can't vote. I'm glad I kind of person who was like, we need to go back to basics. I don't feel that way. But then I feel like if I give them an inch, they'll take a mile. So I'm like, maybe I give you nothing. I don't know. This is a, we can't vote. I'm glad I can't vote. I'm glad like Justin and many people in many seasons, I can't vote because I don't understand, I feel like this is just, I guess they minimal, they don't

deserve more than minimal. There's more than a minute. My answers are in the game. Is that a five person vote with three plus advantages? Tell me what the advantage is. I want to list the advantages. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more.

There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more.

There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more.

There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more.

There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more.

There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There's more. There where you can buy advantages to send into the game. That's what I want. Yes! Oh my God, I would love to do that. That would be so fun. Yeah, okay, anyway, well, that's all I have.

Eden, you missed the Severance finale to be here. I know. That's so kind. I'm just that kind of guy. I'm just the Dave of the podcast world. I like jet skis. Green flags. I like chocolate milk. Yeah, that's what he would do. That's what a kind person would do.

He would. Everyone goes thank Eden for missing the Severance finale to be here. I missed it too, but it's my podcast. So I was like, I have to be here. Exactly, that's fun. Eden. That's fun. You can miss it.

You are podcasting more than me at the moment. I don't say that lightly. That's not true. Tell the people what you're doing and where they, it actually is true. I ran the numbers. When I was doing my Julia Roberts calculating, I also found time to count how many podcasts we've each done.

And I think this week, how many podcasts did you do this week? I'm in the case of... I'm doing recaps of Australian Survivor after each episode of Journey for Airplay. Every episode, yeah. And then you're doing weekly. And then I'm doing a weekly one with my brother for Survivor Debrief. And that's like a keynote show.

Then I'm doing exit interviews. Yeah. And then I'm doing- And then you've done this. And then I've done this. And then anyone that have me, I did Sarah's podcast last night, obviously, RHFBs. Sarah's own, we did the draft with her. We started talking about biscuits and we said, you know what, we're going to have to talk

about Australian Survivor, but we're also going to have to do a biscuit review. So we did a biscuit, a top five biscuit review. Keep an eye out for that one coming soon. So yeah, I'm always looking for a new podcast to jump on. You know me. I'm so shallow. I need to talk about these things. I need to express myself any way necessary through as many podcasts as humanly possible. Yeah, so I think that's what

it is, is that you're recapping three times a week, doing a weekly show, doing an exit like me. I'm doing global every week, but you're guessing so much and I'm not doing that. You guessed it this week already, so that already brings you up to me. And you guessed it with me. So you already won more. I told you. Calculated it. Yeah. There's the math. There's the math. But seriously, like in terms of what we're doing, me and my brother with Survival Podcast,

it's been really fun doing a weekly recap. So if there is anyone that wants to listen to me rabbit on for another weekly recap, please like and subscribe that because we're just a humble, just a humble little podcast unlike the RHAP juggernaut that we all know and love. So yeah, if you do enjoy my ramblings, please check us out and give us a like and subscribe. It would be really great. Where can people find that? So you can find me at Edenporta1 on Instagram or at Edenport on X. And yeah, on YouTube, it's Survivor debrief. So just follow us there and on Spotify as well. Yeah, any good podcasts, channels,

you can find Survivor debrief. So yeah, check it out. I saw you on the homepage this week. I saw Survivor debrief. What homepage? On the Apple homepage. Survivor debrief. No, you didn't. Yeah, I did. I promise you. I'm going to see if it's still there.

Well, this is probably not the time to do this, but I did find it. I did see it. This is great. This is great TV, Shan. Yeah, I'm telling you, I'm going to send you a screenshot when I go back. Please do. Please do. TV and film.

I'm telling you, it was there. It was there. It was there for a moment. It was there for a moment. It was a blink and you miss it was there. It was there for a moment. It was a blink and you miss it. Also, and I've got another podcast that I do, but we're in the off season at the moment called cancelled movie report. So me and my friend Kambo, we get hold of scripts of films that have never been made, they got cancelled, and we get voiceover artists and we basically redo in

basically like an audio play of the entire film. So it's the closest thing you can get to seeing these films get made without actually spending millions of dollars on making them. We are in between seasons at the moment. We're filming, recording the new season. So that should be out maybe about halfway through the year

in June or so. It does take us a long time to build those episodes up, but keep an eye out for that. That's canceled movie report as well. Well that actually reminds me I actually had another question from Matt Noll who said Eden is graded Alliance names what should Khan Kamilla's name be and which movie would this episode be? Do you have a last minute because obviously the Holes Alliance is where I would go but... Well that's what it is they've bonded over Holes it's like that's them that is them every

single day of the week or you could just look any Shia LaBeouf film really. You could just, you could work with Suburbia. That's another show. Transformers, they're all good Shia LaBeouf films. What is a movie reference? They're all these bee holes, because they were in a hole and then they dug themselves out of it.

They were in a hole. We could, what else have we got? We could do, it could be Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. We could have Karl and Kamala's Excellent Adventure. Yeah, that would be good. Pulp Fiction isn't, oh, that's a, nah, that's too many entertaining services.

There's not enough. Maybe, what are the usual suspects? Because they were both suspects, but they managed to, there's a twist at the end, you know, their feet straightened up and they went, oh yeah, that's good. I like usual suspects. I think that's quite good. I don't know if I've seen that movie. I'm sorry.

I'm missing the reference. I know that. I haven't seen a lot of the big movies. I haven't seen like the Godfather. Don't read anything else. Go and just because yeah, just go watch that film. It's got Kevin Spacey in it. So it's been tainted, but it is still a very good film.

Oh, I know. I actually did that. I know this. I watched the end scene. Is that the monster twist? Well, yeah, I just I watched that. I'm sorry. I Wikipedia movie plots and I watched that last scene.

I watched the last thing before Wikipedia. And I'm like, what? Oh, shit. And now I'm okay. That's that movie is I'm sorry. But okay, what if it's the aforementioned inception based on the but if they do this and they do that and then we get to the layers? Well, I think, yeah, we lived through inception tonight in terms of our journey.

So I think that's that's another really good way. What we need, we need we need someone we need that. That that that that that that like we need that music playing to get us kicked out, to get us out of our journeys. Gives back to reality. Give us the kick, Shannon. Yeah, get us back to the Severance finale. But Eden, thank you so much.

Everyone should check out everything that Eden is doing. I'm doing things as well. Podcasting a lot. Australian Survivor, three recaps a week with Chappelle, Pia, Mike. We've got the feedback show, which we're going to get you on later in the season. We've got Caroline this week, the ex-interview every week. We've got Global next week with Matthew Haywood from Survivor UK. I think that's it.

I think that's it. Yeah. So good. So good. I really had a good time. It's always a fun time with you, Shannon. This was really fun. This was better than the separate finale.

I don't know. I haven't seen it. but I don't know. I have a high body clear. Maybe my, maybe my outie has watched it tonight and I don't even know about it. It could be a possibility. I'm here. I'm an innie. I'm in the podcast anywhere.

The way that the innies are a slave to the job and they just chug away. That's me in survival. So my outie is having a great fricking time. Oh, the outie is drinking chocolate milk and Survivor. So my Audi is having a great fricking time. Oh, the Audi is lovely. The Audi is drinking chocolate milk and watching holes. I'm just in here, not seeing the sunlight, just being like, and I'm like, what happens with it? On a jet ski out there. Like here we are. I make Severance references in so many of my recent podcasts. Like it's pretty clear

I want to be watching Severance right now. This is not a Severance podcast, this is Survivor 48. Thank you so much, Eden. I absolutely love the chat. Thank you to our listeners. Thank you to our team behind the scenes and I will see you next time. Bye. See you. Bye. Survive!