RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor New Era Winner Rankings

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

Survivor New Era Winner Rankings Today, Rob Cesternino, Mike Bloom, and Shannon Guss rank the Survivor New Era winners! On this Survivor-packed episode of “Rob Has a Podcast,” Rob Cesternino welcomes Shannon Gus and Mike Bloom for the ultimate Survivor New Era winner rankings. The panel attempts the impossible: ranking the winners from Survivor seasons 41-49. With wit and deep Survivor knowledge, they navigate a daunting list where every name holds a million-dollar title, and every ranking is sure to spark discussion. Along the way, they open up about their own criteria and biases—what’s more important, the social game or physical dominance? Big moves or flawless consistency? The conversation is both meticulous and subjective, as the panel highlights the strengths, weaknesses, and surprising moments that defined each winner’s game. The panel discuss: – Individual winner analyses, from Gabler’s undercover triumph to D’s all-around dominance – Lively discussion about what truly makes a great Survivor winner – Audience insights, with over 5,000 fan votes counted for the final, “unimpeachable” ranking – Laughs, a touch of controversy, and an honest look at what it means to win Survivor in the New Era For superfans, casual viewers, and anyone who loves a good debate, this episode is Survivor coverage at its finest. To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

Hey everybody. What's going on? Rob Cisternino back with you for a very special podcast here tonight because we are taking on an assignment that many people who are the faint at heart would not have ever attempted to do. But we think you, the listeners, deserve a new era winner ranking. And so I am here with an esteemed panel of survivor experts to talk to. about our thoughts and your thoughts on the ultimate, unimpeachable new era winner ranking list. And now two people who are neither arbitrary nor reductive. First, our chief international survivor correspondent. It's the great Shannon. Gus, Shannon, how are you? I'm good. I'm filled with trepidation.

This is so brave, by the way. Aren't we brave? It's so brave. I would bear, I bury this at the end of like a two and a half hour recap, but like the people who want to be there want to be there. You know what I mean? Like making lists. It's just, it's a dangerous thing. Very much so. It's dangerous fun. That's what Mike White said it should be. This is why I don't play Survivor Rob. Like I don't want, I don't want to do that. Like, but now this is, this is scary than anything anyone's ever done ever. We're heroes basically. So. Yep. Okay. And of course, here with us to talk about it, a man who never shies away from. from making dangerous mistakes on a podcast. It's Mike Bloom. Yes, I've built a career out of it at this point. Rob, is it too late to put on an alias? Should I pull Mr. X out of the cause?

Mr. X, yes. Pull it out again. Because, yeah, as much as we are an esteemed panel, I'm intrigued to see how many people will be steamed. Call him Uncle Mike. Maybe not. That's the hot topic there. But I'm excited about this,

because look, whether or not this type of format that got ushered in with the new era will continue for 51 and beyond. This truly does kind of feel like the end of an era. And so we've been doing a lot of looking back, I think, throughout the course of Survivor 49. And Rob, you brought this up on a podcast we did last week. And yeah, you know what?

This is brave. I think I would consider us heroes. Yeah. Listen, we're going to take chances. We're going to get people mad. Hopefully people all will not feel like that we're just shooting from the hip. I think that all three of us here on this panel are very measured, took this assignment very seriously and we are going to give our opinion but we are also going to reveal the opinion of our

listeners because we have been polling the listeners since last week where we asked the listeners to rate the survivor winners of the new era and then we have compiled that into its own winner ranking list which we will reveal here on this podcast and so we spend a lot of time thinking about how this should go and so the first part of this discussion is going to be centered around the revealing of our own personal new era winner rankings and we will go through them one to nine or actually we'll do it nine to one

in terms of the new era winner rankings that those results the Mike Bloom, Shannon and Rob Lists will combine for a total of 30% of the new era winner ranking about you know nothing yeah yeah not too much okay Just a little footnote there.

Now, we saw what a 30% did against 70% in the second half of the Survivor season, Mike, right? That's very true. We are the Translenses here. No, we're not. No, votes mean nothing. It was all the audience. Please get mad at each other. Yeah.

And so then we will also reveal the results of our listener poll, which Sam, I'm sure, will tell us how many votes, over 5,000 votes, 5,139 votes were cast. One of those was mine. I voted as well. I still voted. And we will reveal that. Wait, wait, wait. So now you're taking up, what, like 0.02% and 30% as well? Yeah, I wanted that.

I just wanted to just a little bit more, even though clearly I want none of this, but yes. That will be 70% of the vote. So we will then take, we have a formula where we will take our 30% from our list and then your 70% from the fan vote. We'll combine it together and we'll have a definitive new era. winner ranking list here on this podcast. But it's not definitive

like everyone's list. I have a letter for my lawyers and I just want to read it. This is fun and a subjective game. It really doesn't matter that much. In subjectivity, we'll see all of our values show differently. Like a lot of this like is my values.

Like I value a physical game less than like a social strategic game. I value like big moments more than neutral things. I also want to say some of these are so close that Mike and I was saying before it's like we're still kind of wrestling with it and I also

Yeah it's pretty live I'm willing to be convinced And also I will say The new era winners are very good Like I'm going to have people Towards the bottom of this list That I think are really good It's just high caliber

They all won their season of Survivor Okay That's what needs to be said Yeah They're a bad winners though This is a good group I mean I will say At the end of the day

They are all a million dollars richer than us They did something right in that particular season to take home the win. That should not be disregarded at Denevalde. This is splitting hairs right now. They all did a great job, okay? Each of them have their own strengths that got them the win in their season. But we can also, as people who are fans of Survivor, make a list and talk about it on a podcast.

So I think this is, I think this is going to be okay. we'll show our work, we'll talk about what we valued versus what we didn't, and you could put them in any order that you want. We invited the listeners too. So we will first talk about our lists and then we'll compare it against what came in from the fan vote and we'll combine them all together. This is going to be, we can do this. Yeah, I am really actually excited about this exercise as trepidacious as I was, still am, probably will be. Because the new air has kind of truly showcased how many different ways there are to win Survivor.

Now, granted, we've seen in the 40 seasons prior that there are 40 different stories to do so, but I feel like even the spectrum we were getting within like the first five seasons of different levels of dominance, different levels of, you know, representation from different aspects of the game, strategic, social, physical, different relationships,

you know, different maneuvers that they had to pull off. Could they pull off a bunch of big moves and still get to the end? did they have to make one big move to get to the end and then win? I think the new era has done a lot in terms of its game structure to try to throw variants into the survivor equation. But I feel like that's nowhere better represented perhaps than the people who emerge at the end of each season.

It's tough to predict the winners of, I think, new era seasons especially because there are so many different paths to get to the end, partially maybe because of the stuff production throws in there. Okay. Yeah, I feel like the new era has like a stagnant. that allows comparison, which is maybe the one, like, good thing you can say about the fact that they've just been, like,

hitting that same hammer for nine seasons, right? It's like, were you in a disaster tribe or not? You all had the potential to be because there probably was a disaster tribe on your season. So, like, that's not a reason to rerun the same experiment pretty much nine times, but it's definitely going to help us tonight. But I think, you know, like, this is actually a good group.

It's not just that they all won. Like, winners exist on a spectrum. And we're fun too. But, like, the winners exist on a spectrum, as we've seen of like all 49 seasons, let alone global survivor. This is a good group, I think, if you were to like plunk it into that actual, like, bigger group. So I think I think that was an interesting thing to look back on is like the newer has really produced some really solid winners. Probably what you'd say about like them casting fans and people who are so plugged in.

I think we've got a good caliber of winners here to talk about. And I love them all. And they're all great. They're all amazing. I'd love to just talk through your process in terms of how you went about making your list because I had an initial version of the list and then I was changing things leading up to this podcast. Mike, how did you go about putting together your list?

So for each one of them, even though, again, every winner is special in their own way, I decided to compare each winner to one or two previous survivor winners in terms of their journey, their gameplay, their specific skill set, which also helped me kind of ground myself because then I think about how does that winner maybe compare in an overall list I might have running in my head. But I would say in general, what I'm looking at is an overall skill set. Granted, yes, one of the things that gets thrown in terms of the criteria for some people is like, well, so-and-so won, but the competition was weak. Or so-and-so had a tough time against these people, and so they deserve, you know, they should get a higher ranking.

I think for me, I value games more that given what we saw on our screen in that particular season is probably the most applicable skill set to apply to really any person to replicate a winning survivor game. I think that some players have been able to pull off incredibly impressive journeys, especially in the new era, perhaps quite literal, with those journeys. But I think I more so looked at the people who were able to, have moments and particular faculties about them to just feel like the general qualities

of what makes a good survivor player that can be used as a baseline for pretty much any environment you're in. Probably should find this out before, right? I think it's great that each of us have our own criteria. Shannon, how did you go about making your list? I did a lot of research. I went back to a lot of my notes

from the end games and the finale of the seasons, looked at some of Mike's old. exit interviews and obviously back at the seasons themselves. And for me, I was doing this at the time. You know, as every winner was added to the pantheon, I was making and saying on the podcast on Global a new era winner rankings, I have stuck to that. There are things you look back on it's like, should I change it? And I haven't been able to because I've been kind of rooted to those ideas for years. I could be again convinced. But everyone has kind of fallen into that line for me. But for me, it is winning games. And I'm definitely going to talk about the skill set. Like,

My number one winner isn't necessarily the person I would want to throw into however many, you know, seasons. I think some winners may be better or worse than their games. But for me, it really is, especially what I value on their winning games. Yeah, and just like the metrics of that. Yeah. I did this exercise back in the evolution strategy with Josh Wiggler when I tried to rank the winning games from the first 30 players. And I know I got some pushback from my particular way that I do. do this exercise, but I'm really looking at the three things that we talk about in the new era

final tribal councils, which is your social game, your strategic game, and what's the other one? Social. Is it cool and survival? Yeah. And you're straight. I think a lot about Rob. Right. And so I'm really looking at those three areas in terms of how we're going to be ranking the players. I'm looking to see how much did they get what they wanted. How many times? did they get blindsided in the game where something happened that they did not anticipate and ultimately, you know, a couple other factors along the way. So I think that this list is going to be very interesting. I'm interested to see how much we have departures from things. And so why don't we get down to it? And so is anyone brave enough to say who they want to reveal as their

number nine ranked winner from the new era? Oh, I mean. I'll volunteer myself immediately. You're a hero, Mike. I was going to say. Running into a fire. This breaks my heart to do. To put anyone at the bottom of this list upon the, you know, very, very good list of winners. But it would be appropriate that it was heartbreaking because it is the heart valve specialist.

It is the one the only Mike Gabler, winner of Survivor 43. Okay. So what we're going to do is we're going to then give you all of the stats on Gabler as we start to talk about Gabler in detail. And so let's talk through everything about Gabler as, and then we'll reveal where Shannon and I have Gabler on our list. Yeah, so Gabler started on Baca. You know, maybe didn't have the best time,

but was able to make his way to the merge. And then I would say he took off, but he's able to get, you know, his biggest enemy out in Ellie at the mergerary boot. Pretty much goes with the mergerary strategy of just throw a name out there and everyone hops onto it. is successful in that. And then the Alligabler slips under the water

and just bides his time until the end game. When a snap, snap, snap, threats go one by one by one. Gableer is the second oldest person to win Survivor at 51 years old. Wins near unanimously, 7 to 1 to 0. Did win one individual immunity most memorably, of course, event that we all went to live show with him winning the, what's it called? The challenge that Jeff's doing in Survivor 50.

Yeah, I was going to say. The challenge that is still ongoing right now, I think. I feel like it's not called crank it, but it feels like it should be. It's not called Cranket. It is definitely, it is definitely not called Cranket. It should be called Get a Grip, but that's already been utilized. And votes against Zero. And perhaps that speaks to a big element of Gabler's game,

which as he touts, has been touted many times since, is going undercover for 26 days. It's a really impressive and unique game that Gabler has here in season 43, where he's very visible and somebody who's very much out in the open, Mike mentioned, the Alligabler, which then he does go undercover. He's not somebody who's really talked about too much as a threat. He's willing to give people what they want. In terms of a game that was dominant, this was not it. It was a game where he was very, he intentionally passive. And these are, I think, the hardest games to rate where when somebody is like, hey, I'm calling my shot, I want this person out, and I'm going to get the votes against this person, it's much easier for us to be able to do it.

In terms of what Gabler did, it is a tough game to rank because it was a game of just surviving until he was able to make the fire, get Jesse out, and then ultimately, have a great final trauma council. I think what's tough about this game is that this car spoke about it so strangely. And things that they credit to Gable's game are still to me so overstated. Like they talked about how like Jesse and Cody and Gable were the alliance of the season.

It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There's maybe three votes. They're like Cody's going to go home at a point. I think Jesse and Cody were running things and Gable was kind of part of like a Ryan vote and maybe a unanimous Sammy vote really. Like the things that they have credited in terms of he does take Jesse out in fire,

and that is a huge meta, especially of like the early new era of taking out like the big threat. But, you know, Cassidy won the immunity to put him into fire and then obviously isn't going to get credited. I think he gets a lot of credit for the Ellie vote, which I always felt was messy. The jury at the time could not speak to the fact

that they just liked Gabler the most, which is so fine. I think they felt awkward saying it. It made things confusing at the time. But even with that, there's just not an intentionality that I can really credit in the same. things I value in the game.

I think that he had an alliance with Owen and Cassidy. He kind of did want to get there with them. And obviously that was like not only an option for him. I mean, it should have been completely the only option for him. But I think it was an option. I think even if I just looked at some of the exits like with Mike after the season. And he was kind of happy to go a few different ways. You know, it's a little vague for me in what Rob's talking about in dominance and like

definitiveness for a winner. So that's kind of always what I've seen with Gabler is like the thing. things that they credit aren't there, just say he was really nice, you know, like, and he was really nice, by the way. I met him in San Francisco. He's great. He's a vibes guy. He was so nice. He, so he came up to me. Well, actually, I went up to him and I introduced myself, and I told him that I'm also friends with George and he's friends with George, so we took a selfie of us. We sent it to George. And then later on, he went out of his way at the after party introduced me to his wife. And the listeners were like, do people know that, like, does he know

that you've, like, criticize his game? And I was like, shut up. Um, and then he sent me the photo and he added me on Instagram and he sent me an alligator emoji and I was like he is really nice and I apologize for being down on the game he won the game he won a million dollars donated it incredible stuff but if we're looking at this pantheon of winners that we were saying it's really impressive I don't think Gabler has the footholds of such a high-calibur group so I also had him at nine so the winners I compared Gabler to I would say the secondary one is Adam Klein I feel like like Adam a little bit I think that Gabler has this move

that he makes in the pre-merge slash sort of merge standpoint and then not to say that Adam slipped under the radar at all but was able to stay out of danger when a lot of shots were being fired until as Rob mentions that move is made with the final four that they get the immense amount of credit for

but I think the more applicable one is Pearl Island Sandra and you know Gabler even mentions as long as it ain't me and it's not to say that like he was necessarily all about like I'll get rid of anybody like as you mentioned he did have options that were open but you know he's not necessarily driving strategy he's not winning challenges except for one but he is positioning himself to be in a good spot where he is rarely targeted and especially

I think Gabler had some of the most information in the game where he knew where everything was going and he was able to sort of move from there I think what I take away from it is what you mentioned before Shane and where as you said Gabler told me about all of the these options he had about getting to the end. The issue is, I think he could only win in that configuration that he sat in. He, like, he would have arguably lost against two, if not half of the final six. Yeah, I think that that's what I compare it to Adam Klein. The thing with Adam is he's so intentional and so aware about he's like, if you're not putting out David at four, vote me out. Like, I refuse to sit with him. Like, I know that this is my only pathway and I'll do

anything to get there. It's a similar structure where the threats will take each other out. and you're left with his final three. But I think Adam is wielding that a lot more intentionally. And then compared to Sandra, I could see that. It's more like adaptive game. And I do think he knew he was underestimated. And he's leaning into that and past. And I think that that's really good to be fluid like that.

But I think Sandra in Pearl Islands did drive a lot more. Like this 43 cars, the Jesse's, the Codys, the Carlers were driving a lot that I don't think Gabler was. I think that you can point to things that Sandra did more definitively in the Pearl Island. And so, yeah, that and then, so I would put him below both. But, I mean, he, we always said Tom Schwartz, right? Like for the five South Africa fans, there's a lot of similarities possibly there as well. Just, I mean, just in terms of archetype at the very least. Yeah.

So for me, Gabler, he has this off the charts social game. That's the thing you hear about him. It's almost like to almost any fan or person who's played with him, anybody who's interacted with him in person, they say, you meet this guy and you get it. And I got to meet him also in San Francisco like Shannon did. And he was just like so intense. He's like, hey, Rob, great to be here. Like, wow, Gailer, you are like lit up.

Yes. Enthusiasmistic. Did he send you an alligator emoji? He did not. We have not been sending any emojis back and forth. You should send it. Send it. So with Gaveller.

you totally get it and you gets to the final tropic council everybody's laughing at his jokes they really want to give him the win and so it's definitely like an interesting skill set in the new era i think that he's kind of a unique story and a unique winner for the new era i will tell you i also have gabler at number nine on my list yeah i think uh he said it best to me in his exopress when he said that he was not a hunter he was a farmer he was spreading his seeds for lack of a better term and I do think that while that is an asset to be admirable in the new era

I think the reason why he is ranked towards the bottom is because I can't think of instances in one through eight where these people were hunters you know I think the farming lifestyle is perfect and necessary and has won people the game before I think the other ones just have a little bit more

of that carnivore in them man he has a lot of sound bites that game also just speak to his game He also has like a very clear and concise narrative that he was able to sell to the jury that everybody was able to follow of, I came into the merge, I was highly visible, I decided to be the allegabler and I went under the water. Nobody could see me. That resonated with how everybody saw him.

He didn't get to the final travel council and tried to claim, hey, I was running everything. everything was this was all that was my idea that was my idea like he very much had a great self-awareness in terms of how everybody saw him and he was able to give things back to the jury members that also corresponded with how they viewed where he was in the game and everything he said checked out i think the best thing you can say is like the jury liked him so much that they wanted to buy what he was selling you know like again even if i can be like i don't think that that's accurate you know at the end of the day if they didn't like him then they wouldn't credit him for taking out jesse exactly um because there are other ways you can credit it but they were like they

came there as you said laughing at his jokes wanting to hear him they came in very favorable to him and that's something he did through the relationships that he had so he's a very a very social winner which is hard as well because the edit was like they showed him like putting the palms on people they showed yeah his his pre-merch edit was was antisocial so it's weird is it like did Gabler find his people when they merged? I think maybe you take a time to get to get to know Gabler. Either that or listen, there's obviously a lot that I think is colored by his edit as well.

I think we try to look past it as much as we can, but the fact of the matter is they said this was purposely edited to be like a murder mystery where you find out who the killer is at the end and then you sort of go back and track through it. Rob, you did that after 43. I thought his edit was perfect because I think that you had sort of the lived experience of the other players of like here he is but he was as he said hiding in plain sight and so I think that his story is actually one of the better ones of the new era in terms of that he told you what he was doing that was your lived experience watching the show and then when

he pops back up at the end like yeah that's what he said he was going to do yeah Gabler winning Survivor is maybe the most shocking moment I've ever had with the show yes I put up a photo that sometimes people still remotes of my immediate reaction that my cousin took of me at the time, and I did not see it coming, not at any point, not when the votes were being read for the winner. Honestly, I kind of felt that way with some of these other winners. Maybe I'm just not good at this, but we'll always have that moment. It was the biggest shock of the new era when he won.

Oh, I would say the biggest shock of Survivor stands like Chris Underwood winning for a while. Oh, that's true. I forgot about that. I've compared it to Bobby Bones win on Dancing with the Stars, but I don't want to bring that comparison. I've already been brought into that business, all that drama this fall. Okay. Shannon, do you also have gay blurt? number nine in your rankings. Yeah. Okay. So consensus number nine from our panel. Okay.

Anything else on Gabler? Let's have him slip back. Okay. I appreciate our newfound friendship. Yeah. Gabler's great. Yeah. And we'll see what the audience had to say about Gabler's win. Okay. All right. Shannon, are you brave enough? No. To give us your number eight. Oh, you're not on a five. firefighter. You're a genius. You're so smart. Number nine, easy. We all got Gaveler a number nine. No one's getting hate, no offense. We're putting Gave her number nine, but I'll do it. I'll

wear the bullets, much like Savannah recently did for her alliance. I have Erica at number eight. Okay. All right. Let's talk about Erica, the winner of Survivor 41. Okay. Shannon, talk us through.

How did Erica end up at number eight in your rankings? Because it's a good group. You know, I hate to say, but it's true. I think with Erica, so she doesn't go to tribal council through the prima. She's on Louvre. She's going to win, is it one immunity?

She didn't win two immunity? She won one at the split tribal and then one at the final five. Okay, balance fact check our stat man. Not going to name names who it was. She has a couple of votes at the Shan Boot, if I'm correct. The thing with Erica's game is that it's, hard to analyze, well, it's very hard to analyze because it's so different from the edit. Like when I was looking back my notes, after that finale, we were recalibrating so much

of what we had learned in the edit, things that weren't even just hidden, although she wasn't incredibly hidden winner, but some things that may have been manufactured. We were told, you know, the challenges were being, like, we were having attempted throws to get rid of her. Then we were hearing from Deshawn, like she wasn't necessarily at the bottom of Louvo. Like she might have been, you know, she wasn't necessarily going home in the hourglass at the point where she's away at Excel for a couple of days maybe, you know, but we were trying to recalibrate these things. And I think that we as a fandom have struggled with that because

we don't know, you know? So it's like, should you assume the worst? Should you just go with the edit where it's like there are these huge missteps where she was very much saved by the format? Or should you assume the absolute best, which also feels unfair. Like she was definitely insulated. I try to do a little bit of neither and both. You know, like she wasn't fully insulated. She might have been in trouble, but she definitely wasn't as in a bad spot as we had thought in the edit. So why does Erica end up at number eight for me? I think for me it's because, yeah, again, in terms of analyzing the game, if it's going to be so limited, she's going to be saved, well, she's going to be immune from the hourglass at 12, you know, get to kind of playing

at 11. And from there, there's nothing kind of as spectacular as we're going to see from some of these other winners. Erica's a very solid winner. She's very consistent, but the game is going to be limited and then kind of like neutral to good. You know, she's going to, things are going to be driven by Ricard and Shan a lot more in that early merge. And then she does have a great end game and she's driving a lot of the shots, but she just doesn't have as much time to make that happen. And then when she makes it happen, it's good, but it's not some of the spectacular moves that we're going to talk about later on.

So I described it at the time as like a mid-tier winner. And I kind of feel her the same way now. I think she's got, I think she's got it all, like, but like kind of medium. Like she is social, but she's like the most social. She did drive things, but she's not like the most dominant strategy. She's certainly physical, but she's like some of these winners are going to break records or tie record. So I think some of these other wins that I rank higher than her will be less consistent, but they have superpowers, whereas Erica was just kind of like a steady eddy

in a limited game format. And that's kind of put her number eight, even though I do think it is good. And I don't think it's like, should be second last. But that's where these winners kind of sticks to me. She's definitely a key co-conspirator in a bunch of the big things that end up happening on the Nassir vote at the split tribal council. You know, she works with Ricard and Shan to get Nassir out of the game with his idol. Also on the Shan vote also that she ends up coming in and is a key person. I believe that they end up doing like a idol flush or a vote split against Shan and Leanna. Yeah.

Yeah. To as she, I believe Shan was trying to get Erica voted out on that round. So she ends up like being. being a big part of what goes on there. And then she ends up, you know, hitching her wagon with Ricard and Xander to go to the end. And she does win an advantage also, I believe, at the final five, which I don't know if that's, I don't know if we have advantages counted in our stats. But she does get an advantage in the challenge, but I think ultimately Zander ends up winning. No, she wins the final five one

Zander wins the final four immunity and takes her to the end. Got it, got it. So she wins the advantage, which helps her win the final five immunity and then ends up going into a final tribal council where she ends up beating Zander and D'Shawn. I would say also in terms of

the final tribal council that she has, though, we had heard from the get-go that Zander was not really considered to be a real factor in terms of somebody that the jury wanted to vote for. And then also, it seemed like that things really went sour for Deshawn

with some of the members of the jury like Shan and Leanna. So she goes into a very favorable matchup, I feel like, at the Final Travel Council. And that's why I think one of the closest comparisons I have for Erica is Earl Cole. Yeah. From the OG Survivor Fiji, where I think that much like Earl, Erica was in a bit of danger when the game turned individual. Now, Erica was directly in danger. I think certainly something that could be a knock against her game

is to your point, Shannon, maybe this is true, maybe it's not, but at least it was edited to be that had Erica been left unsafe at that first tribal council, she would have gotten at least a little bit of heat. But at a crucial point during the post-merge, she's able to help cobble together this syndicate, this cross-tribal group that pretty much steamrolls their way to the end. She loses her closest ally, Heather, at the final four,

but she sits at the end against two kind of unlikable people to the rest of the jury. And so she wins pretty handling. And I think Erica, I will say, I did not have Erica ranked number eight. Oh, okay. I did not. I did an Erica ranked number eight. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

I think you wrote this as solidarity, Mike, you. Okay. This is where it's going to get interesting. Yeah, because I think for me, I mean, Erica touts the fact in final tribal council that, and again, that this is maybe a, little bit of her, you know, bloviating a bit, but she does say she got her way on every vote that she went to. And that is something that I admire. I mean, yes, Shannon, she may not have made like the big moves that she can claim as her own, but I think that move on Shan was incredibly

impressive. Yeah. Like, think about the fact that the discourse at the time was how much Shan was on luck to win that season, that she had this, this all-black alliance. She had this alliance with Ricard seem to have so many different things going on and Erica was the next one in her sights like the godfather was planning her next hit Erica doesn't win immunity but she says now is the time to take advantage of this growing resentment towards Shan and let's take her down and everything changes from there then they systematically take out Leanna and Danny and it's something that yes obviously Erica saves herself in that moment but she really helps dictate the rest of the game in just making that one move.

Not to mention the fact that I think she was well positioned at the final four where yes, I know, I think Ricard has said that like if Heather gets there, maybe she has a bit of a better chance. But I do think that she also, in winning immunity like Sophie Clark style and takes out Ricard also kind of helps seal her win as well in making sure that all the big threats get taken out at that stage. She really is like the prototypical way to typically win in a new era, right? Which is middle of the road, don't stick your neck out.

far, just maintain the course, snip the threats out when you can, and be the best of the rest at the end. So if Ricard gets to the final three, does Ricard win season 41 over Erica? It's a good question. I would imagine so. Yeah. Yeah, but the thing is that was a new era, right? Like, Oma beats Marianne and Jesse beats Gabe.

Like, that was the whole thing. And she was very much the pioneer of that because she wins that advantage in the immunity. And she gets to be the architect of that. I think maybe later on we'll see people improve upon that even further. but I do think that that was the matter we talked about a lot. And I do think that she was kind of the OG of that. I mean, she was 41, right? But I do feel like that that is a good question to be asking as we're trying to compare

these apples to apples. Like, were there players in their own season that would have beaten them at the final tribal council? Because I think that we are going to get to people that when we say, are there players that they played with in their own season that could have beaten them in the tribal council in the final tribal council, that the answer will be no. I agree with that, but I also think that it's a big difference between I know that I have to get this person out. I know I can't beat them and then I do it.

Like at the time, I think I was critical with Erica for letting Ricard get so close, you know, one round from fire. He's a good physical competitor. I was like, you're leaving this fine. But then she does capitalize on that pathway. Like, she does take him out of the game. And I think that there's a difference between kind of just ending up in a final tropical council was saying with Gabe that it was less intentional. And Erica, who kind of knew she needed to do this and would get credit. for it and while at the time I was like this is kind of worrying like it's that shield strategy that

someone like Tony used earlier on like I know that I'm going to have this person and then something we've seen so much in the newer sense is like and then I'm going to get credit for taking them out they're talking about it with Savannah just last week about like how can I be the person to do that so I think when it's wielded quite intentionally it's really quite hard to criticize it but I will say as well you know if the stuff in the edit with Erica is true like she's then like she's like a bad winner for me you know like if she's being saved by the hourglass It's like, you know, Kristian Australian Survivor. Like, I don't want the format to save a winner.

I mean, I think she got the fishy for that, Shannon. Well, Stephen has given some weird fishies. Stephen's not listening to this. There's another person I'm making angry on this podcast. Sam, could we also include number of fishies won for each person? What about the chili? No, no, don't break up something with Savannah again, Rob. We don't want to continue this higher.

I was thinking about who won the Chizzy for these seasons. But yeah, and then again, if she was definitely never going in any of those early days. Like, then there's very little to fault about her game at all. If it's a question mark, that's kind of why I have to put it because it is Trotinger's vote. You know, like, she's not going to those tribal councils. We can't know. And then the hourglass is going to mess things up so, so much. For me, it's just like she was in on every vote that she was in. I like that a lot. But also, there aren't that many votes. Again, because it's a more limited game. And I don't think there's, again, anything like as spectacular from those votes. So that's she went to

How many tribal councils as Parvety did in an Australian Survivor, right? No, she went to way less. Wow. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Well, she went to, what, too, less? And then one of those includes the hourglass, which is a question mark in and of itself. So, you know, that's quite different.

Okay. All right. Anything else to say about Erica's great win in Survivor 41? Okay. All right. So I think what I would like to do here is, Mike, You mentioned that Erica was not your eighth best winner. So there is a different player that you have ranked as the eighth best winner of the new era.

And so why don't we hear who Mike has ranked number eight? All right. This is what I get for my insolence in trying to volunteer to go first. Because I will catch the heat, perhaps, from a lovely mermaid dragon. I have Kenzie as number eight. Okay. So let's talk about Kenzie from the winner of Survivor 46. Mike, why did you have her or talk about your thoughts on Kenzie? Yeah. So I mean, Kenzie's charm social game is absolutely off the charts. I think what is so fun as well is that as we were talking with these players that were coming out of 46, it wasn't just like, yeah, I really like Kenzie. I really like talking with her. Kenzie found a way to like connect with so many different people on so many different things.

The one I always go back to is like Hunter talking about how one day the two of them were like picking flowers for her to wear doing her many fantastic tribal council wardrobe choices. I think Kenzie just has a natural magnetism about her, an ability to connect with people in a very genuine way that comes from not only her sparkling personality, but years of working in the service. industry. I think, you know, even when she is left out of the mid-merge vote with Tiffany, when she loses her number one ally, I don't think she was really any direct danger. I think the closest she was in danger is probably if Yanu goes to tribal council one more time. Now, listen, we have no idea what would happen. It might be a one-one-one vote if Yanu goes to tribal council one more time. He said that Kenzie would have gone home and we don't know necessarily. He was an unreliable. We don't know what Tiffany would have done.

I'm not here to judge if someone's going home on a three-person Yanu tribe that was a brutal time just getting to there is more adversity than most of

kind of any of these winners honestly experience at that point in the game and what's interesting is that like Kenzie kind of did something similar to Gabler

where she comes in and remember little Obanu went on a journey and told the other two tribes essentially hey watch out for Kenzie she's really dangerous

she's gonna win the game and she was able to successfully really underplay her threat level while also making these cross-tribal connections. Actually, similar to Erica, it's not shown in the edit, but there is this alliance that's made called The Gathering of the Goats, which was her, Charlie, Ben, and Liz, where essentially they were like, hey, we heard about the six. We're not in the six. Let's all work together to systematically kind of disassemble what's going on. And granted, it's also part of the six disassembling themselves. But would you look at it, they made their way to the final. final four. I think that Kenzie is somebody who probably the closest comparison would be a

Michelle Fitzgerald in Co-Rong, right? Somebody who is able to just work relationships, who has experience of knowing how to work relationships, is not afraid to people please somebody, even if they may not necessarily like them to their guts. And those are what won her the jury vote at the end of the day. Also, both took home the victory in a bit of a controversial outcome. I still think the Gabler win is the most controversial outcome, but second most might be the Kenzie Charlie 5-3 vote, especially considering some of the criteria the jury apparently used in voting for Kenzie or voting for Charlie. Yeah, so I think it's interesting to talk about Kenzie coming right after talking about Erica, because I think that similarly that they both have a game

where they both win two immunities, and I believe they both win an immunity at the split tribal council and then they win their second immunity at the final five correct thanks liz yeah yeah yeah she got an advantage in the former place she got advantage in that and and both of the in both seasons it's like okay there was a real consensus person who would if they got to the end they were probably going to win in ricard and maria and both of them were able to win an immunity and then there was a four to one vote to take that person out who was the big threat at the end of the game she goes to a final travel council, though, and then ends up in a final travel council with a much more viable person to win in Charlie than either of the two people that Erica sat with. Yeah, I think, yeah,

Mike, you know. No, I mean, that's largely, I think, what puts her near the bottom for me is, again, that that sense of active gameplay. I feel that Kenzie was very good. And again, getting in so many people's good graces and being able to be part of this faction to help determine how the votes, went where they did. I do not think she was as much of a driver as someone like Erica, especially towards the end stretch, nor did she need to be. Again, she took home the money that may not have been suitable for her specific type of personality. But I think that combined with the fact that like, unlike perhaps another winner that we're going to talk about, I think her social game was a little more clocked by a lot of people makes me feel like she's going to be a little bit

lower on this ranking for me. It was a superpower and one that was certainly noticed by people. And so, that's like a blessing and a curse. It's like a double-edged sword of that she has something that's just so off the chart that people are able to spot it, but also they were never able to get rid of her. I think that something is a demerit for Kenzie is that Kenzie gets blindsided. She has an interesting relationship with Tiffany, who's her number one in the game, who at the final nine, I believe, she actually is working on getting Tiffany out of the game. She wants to turn on her number one. And then, then she comes to her senses and says, okay, well, you know, I can't turn on Tiffany. And then she gets blindsided when Tiffany gets voted out at the final eight. Yeah, and all of that is really bad. So it's interesting that I would put her above Erica, where I'm like, there might not be, at admitting, a lot of faults here,

where I do have gaps with Kenzie's game. You know, like we didn't like her turning on Tiffany. It basically became a meme of that season of everyone turning on their number one right until the jury vote. And then she gets blindsided in a way that Erica never is, but I think this speaks to guess my values when I'm ranking it subjectively is that I like when people have those big extremes

in superpowers or in moments and Kenzie is the social winner personified. You could pretty much find a picture of Kenzie in the dictionary, other than I think probably some early game stuff when Yadu were getting very Lord of the Flies on each other. But I do think that, you know, it was so clocked but they never got her.

And I think, yeah, if we talk about the high complexity of her game, which is, how could you foresee that Maria would do that? No one ever possibly could. I still am confused about it to this day. I don't, and I don't take it well to this day that Maria did that. I think it was not even, I don't think it was about Kenzie. I think it was about Maria and Charlie.

However, she did get to the point where it was close. At the time, I thought, and I still think, look, Charlie in some ways needs to wear the fact that he went to the final three with an obviously sparkly person. They've been talking about it for so, so long. She was so clearly sparkly. That's always going to be tough. I actually don't criticize Charlie for it.

I don't think he had many other options because Venus made herself an unworkable ally. but it speaks to Kenzie that she was such a threat but indispensable. Like she was a workable ally that she could get there despite the fact that everyone had been talking about her for such a long time. So I do think that, you know, Charlie in ways that, you know, he does that and he has to wear it. And Kenzie in ways has to wear that it was so close. And she has less agency to make it less close. I think she's the one who's kind of doing the structure less than that season.

But also it was close enough for her to win. And she gets it done. So it's hard to like, you know, it was so close for both of them that I think they're in a similar spot of like, well, you know, like you had a chance. Like, they both had a chance and Kenzie's one to capitalize on that chance. So I do think I don't criticize it as much. And then in terms of the extremes, again, I look at adversity a lot in these wins to compare it to someone like Erica again, if they're going to be close to my rankings. Man, did they really struggle on Yanu where like Erica doesn't go to tribal council? Now that's an unfair thing to possibly discredit

someone for. But I have to look at just how much Kenzie was just surviving. And I have to be impressed by that and I am. Shannon, do you have Kenzie at number seven? Yes. Yes. I also have Kenzie at number seven. And to me, I think that this is the end of a tier here of the Gabler, Gabler, Erica, Kenzie. I think that to me, I feel like that these three are, you can have them in whatever order you want.

But to me, I feel like that this is like the top of like one of the three tiers that I see. I have Gabler at nine and then I think Erica and Kenzie are in a tier where they could be interchangeable because again they're so different like the best things you can say about Erica's consistency is what you cannot say about Kenzie but then what Kenzie fought through

is what you can't say about Erica so that's like a real apple and orange comparison but yeah I mean and I think Kenzie as well like in that final tribal council while the Maria thing again I don't think it was about her like she sells herself well her use of narrative I've always loved that it's like the way Q asked her about how she'd spend the money

and the way that people saw her as a human and what they wanted to give her, I think it was really impressive. I think everything on narrative, social game, threat level, and being able to be protected in that and being like an important ally, got it to the point where at the worst case scenario, she would have just lost, right?

And that's what we talk about for Charlie, but she just won. So that as well. So you know what I mean? It's hard to really criticize it because she didn't come in like getting destroyed, ever. She always got herself to that point. and to Charles' credit, so did he.

And it just went one way or the other, and she's one to capitalize on it. To go back to your piece of criteria, Rob, about, like, was she up against people who would win? I mean, I think the thing that was revealed in the finale exit press was that if the vote did tie 4-4, despite what the edit was showing in terms of like, oh, Kenzie is the one that's really comforting Ben the most

through the night terrors. He would have actually voted for Charlie because Charlie was doing the same as well. Yeah, I think she probably would have also lost to Maria, I think. Yeah, everyone knew to get Maria. out of that game, you know, like, and she did it, and she won that challenge. So I think that her against Tiffany, I think that Tiffany probably ends up winning also. He had been gone for weeks at that time.

Okay, I'm just saying, but I just want to, like, hold up my own criteria. I think it's interesting, you know, you can have it, I think either way, Kenzie, Erica, 7, 8. I went with Kenzie at 7 just because I felt like that the one, like, trait that she's really known for, Shannon, as you mentioned, that that social game, I just think. that she has that superpower level of charisma and it's something that she was able to use so well in the game she's so like imminently likable that I think that if she played again even if like okay she played on like new winners at war I think that she would be a tough person

that anybody would want to get rid of I think she'd be Michelle 2.0 right which was like being able to make her way to the end she is incredibly scrappy being a small business owner for as long as she had, teaches her how to be resourceful, and she made use of the very, very limited resources that were given to her from days 1 to 26. Business owners, the best demographic professionally of winners, as we've learned from Survivor Fact Checker. I think in a perfect world, Kenzie goes at 7.

You know, like, Charlie is having to take her through instead of Venus, but Venus just made herself so unworkable. And the fact that he, like, has to lock him with Kenzie. He knows he's taking Kenzie far. That was always going to be a threat. As we said, Banu was talking about it. this did not come out of no way. And she could have taken her out.

Ben voted for her accidentally at the final seven. But she is able to come back from after Tiffany gets voted out. She looks like the next person to be voted out at that final seven is able to pull through and end up on her way to the final three. Yeah, actually, I realized. That's the only vote she gets the entire season is the one that Ben does by accident. Okay. 46 was wild.

I miss it. I miss it. I miss it, man. I want to do it. Should we do a new era seasons ranking? because that might spoil right six. That's actually probably we get a kind of less hate than this. Okay.

Because it's just seasons. All right. So we have talked to. Sam wants to know, Mike, if you, where you put Erica. You put Erica at seven? I did not. Okay. Oh.

All right. I mean, fair. Your opinion is also valid. Okay. Very subjective. All right. Oh, wow. Okay.

Okay. Let's see, well, let's see where Erica goes in Mike's rankings. All right. let's go through uh and we have talked through three players okay and mike you have given us your i've given you at number nine and number eight okay and unknown placement for erika okay then why don't you give us your number seven shannon can you confirm if a certain someone is not standing off camera right now murder you right now oh my god our friendship is over.

I will bring this ranking up by the end of this podcast if it's the last thing I do I was put on this earth to defend Marianne's game, how dare you? Okay, then let's bring that exercise up now, shall we?

How dare you? So you have that. Marianne is number seven. At number seven. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yes. Wait, the rankings are subjective. Everyone is valid.

Please don't get angry about them. It's completely fine, but Mike, you are dead to me. Mm-hmm. I want to actually start. How dare you? I want to start with that. I want to start with that.

I want to start with a discussion point. Yeah. I want to maybe cool, cool the conversation down a little bit because I realized something as I was combing over Marianne's game. Is she the most influential casting choice of the new era? Yes, of all time. Shannon, I then listen, I invited you to this podcast, not to be hyperbolic, okay? I'm not being hyperbolic. No, okay, I'm not going to doma bar to her.

I actually promised her I would. To me, I feel like that after a shaky survivor 41, what I've always said, about Marianne is that I feel like that she was the person who really like helped sell the vision of what the new era could be in terms of her enthusiasm, in terms of her being maybe an unconventional casting choice in the era prior to in the first 40 seasons of the show. So she comes in and she's to this electric personality. She plays a really, really fun, surprising game in, Survivor 42, and I think that at the end of that, like, kind of weird first two seasons of the new era, that we said, okay, we kind of get what this is. We get what they're going for.

That's the thing for me is that Erica's game was very steady, Eddie, as well as from a personal perspective, as well. Marianne, from a character perspective, is one of the most unconventional winners we have ever had. And, like, the proof is in the pudding. Carolyn said, what inspired her to apply for the show was watching Marianne say, I'm weird. and you can be weird too. Carolyn's appearance on the show begets so many other people appearing on the show. She is the origin point. She is the patient zero for the weirdness virus that has infected the entire new era.

You know, Gabe talked about the Mount Rushmore of the new era. And I think that Marianne, while I did not have her in the top four winners in my rankings, I think is on the Mount Rushmore of the new era. 100% because I think in character or player or both that I think that I would say as a like my Mount Rushmore would be

just the faces of the new era and I think that that combines the characters into it also and I think that what we're doing here tonight is we're analyzing the winning games Mike I thought I would have to fight with the viewers

I didn't think I'd have to fight with you but I'm ready I'm so ready I've mounted just like a thesis defense All right, let's talk about this, Shannon. Why does Mike have Marianne too low? I mean, why you have her so low? I guess would be my first question. Yeah, I think for me, when it comes to it-

Shannon, we're having a discussion. It doesn't seem like I'm not having a good time. Let me also say, from a character perspective, Marianne is S-tier across all Survivor characters. She is incredible, and what she's able to pull out, again, says so much about the new era and what different personality types will be able to accomplish.

It's interesting. I feel like her closest comparison, there is a bit of Natalie Anderson in her towards the end, obviously. But I think my biggest comparison is actually Cochran, where Cochran is this kind of quirky superfan who, again, on paper you would think, there's no way they're winning the show.

Those types of personalities don't do well. But she found herself firmly ensconced within the safety of a really solid alliance where even when in a post-merger, where people were wildly taking shots of one another and people were getting clip, left, and right. She was always in an incredibly safe position. And then the final six comes,

and people might not remember this, but Cochran is the one to put the Brenda Blindside plan into motion. He's the one who sees, you know, them on the beach while they're partying hard on the barge and says, like, Brenda just gave up all of that to us. She's got to go. She is the odds on threat to win this right now. When Marion does it, the final six speaks for its,

might be one of the most impressive moves singularly. I will also speak for it, actually. Exactly. Then we have seen in the new era. And then at the final tribal council, I think Cochran did not have to do as much legwork as Marianne did, but still absolutely impressed enough to win handily. And so, again, I think Marianne is incredibly solid.

I think, again, it's, and the Omer move, you would say, again, like, that is a sparkly move, right? That is a big move that puts her above everybody else. I think what detracts for it from me, is going back to Rob's argument of going to the end with people that could beat her. You know, yes, she does take out Omer, but she says that she only realized that after the Drea boot. This is not a Natalie Anderson situation where she's necessarily lying in wait, being like, I've got to wait for the right time to do this.

And she, I give her so much credit for being able to jump in and mobilize and be one of the, especially in retrospect, rare times she can utilize an advantage to great effect. I think the other detractor for me is the fact. that she was not the odds-on favorite going into that final tribal council. Now, a lot should be lauded onto her because of what she was able to do. And especially that 11th hour bomb drop, it makes for one of the best final TC performances we have seen ever. But if Mike is able to own up to his game a little bit more,

the scales could be balanced a little differently. Yeah, on that specifically, I will say, like, I love Mike Turner. She knows Mike. Like, those things were very inbuilt to his game. Like, when you're tracking the season, and it's like Mike has a lack of self-awareness that is going to make things tricky to find a tribal council.

Marianne doesn't have that. She has ammo in the bank in terms of the fact that she held up Brode Mike. He played his idol on her at 5 and she had her own idol that she's going to reveal at a final tribal council. There's so much there that's incredibly intentional about what she's going to wield at the final tribal council.

Here's what I'll say about Marianne's game. Firstly, what people might criticize is that early on she wasn't, she wasn't possibly in a bit of trouble. She doesn't go at a Mariah boot. I mean, not all of these winners go to tribal. council in the pre-merge. I think she would have been in front of Jackson. That's already quite a lot in this tiny tribe. And honestly, if you ask Lindsay, possibly before Jonathan closed

to the merge. So that's not terrible either. People might say that she was at the bottom of the merge. She was with Tarku. Four Tarkus made it to the final six. Like they were this kind of like secret group controlling things. They gave her a ton of insulation. She also wielded these intentional moves like sitting out for rice. They put her at the top of the bottom when honestly she should have been target number one because of the beware phrases. People knew she had these trinkets and they still didn't target her because she had great insulation with Taku and the way she was managing her threat level being at the bottom but again kind of like fighting her time in a way that I think was very intentional and then we get to this final six

so much here in this final six I will say I'm taking all of this from my notes that I was doing at the time I was not friends with Marianne at the time Marianne's move at the final six is the best move for me of any new era and possibly the best move of the new era I mean of all the other moves we talk about someone like, you know, Jesse and Cody Hurst led to the win if we want to be results-oriented. And I think it very intentionally led to the win. Her timing was perfect. She knew she had an idol,

which he's not even going to use, which is amazing. She took out OMA and she didn't wrestle with it. You know, I was talking about Marianne so much in Survivor 49 because I was like, Sophie, just do it, you know? So I don't know if I can and I love them. I said to Marianne the other day, did you wrestle with taking out OMA?

She's like, I wrestled between five and six, you know? She didn't wrestle with West. to take out the biggest threat, her number one ally who had protected her, who had an amulet expiring in that round, Lindsay. And the crazy thing about that vote, it's so incredible. It's a three-two-two plurality vote. It's a split, but it's an internal split. The amount of power that Marianne had at that final six is crazy. If Oma does have the amulet use on him, it goes to a two-two-Johnathan Romeo vote. And I asked Marianne last time, like, I always forget who was going there. She's like, I was leaning Jonathan, but I was open to hearing it because her two votes are the swing votes at that revote.

Think about how much power individually she had at that final six. Romeo might go. Jonathan might go, which sucks for Mike. And over my go, it sucks for Lindsay. Everyone else is in trouble. Marianne without using her idol, without being immune, with using a little extra vote is entirely individually powerful, incredibly rare to take out the biggest threat who was her closest ally. She's building into this Natalie Anderson type end game. She goes to a final five, or Mike plays the idol on her.

Romeo takes her through when he wins the Challenger Final Four mostly out of sheer love because that is Marianne. And then I think she has what many might say is the best final tribal council of the new era, of a winner in the new era.

We talk about it all the time. Robb, I think you've brought it up on Knowward's last week. People don't really care when you bring up, here's a secret from my life, but they care when you're like,

here's this game thing you didn't know. Marianne created the meta on that. She invented that. She is the pioneer on that. There's a lot here that you can say of Marianne where you say she is, the best of that in the new era of any of these winners. It's not as consistent.

And the thing with Marianne is like, she's an extreme person. So, like, it's not going to go as well every time. But she's also a very special person. And I think it's going to go well a lot. And when it does, it goes very well. I think this went very well. It's exactly what I love about Survivor. Pure social strategy.

It was cutthroat. Who could possibly think that Marianne, the best character from a great cast in 42 could win. It was a moment in time. It will always be important to me putting her at seven is criminal. that's my defense lock me up baby okay it just says an aside i don't know if we've gotten the chance to talk about this on the podcast i know that she was in the mix for survivor 50 ultimately does not get the spot how do we think that marianne would have performed in survivor 50 so well sorry

but it's because she's still underestimated look at what mike said she's underestimated no i i do think of the you know depends on on if she was on there with savannah i believe a lot of people were saying that they felt Savannah replaced her because of, you know, them being added sort of a week before the game started. But I think of her and the other two winners, there's a reason why we haven't talked about the other two winners. I think they would have been looked at as much bigger threats than Marianne, much to everyone's detriment. So I will tell you in my rankings, I did not have Marianne at seven clearly, because that's where I had Kenzie. But I did not have her at six. I had Marianne at five in my rankings. So I have her right in the middle of the New Era winner rankings.

I think that one hole in Mary Ann's game, which did not turn out to ultimately matter for her, but when we're going to compare her to the other winners, is that she here might be the only person that is a new era winner that has zero immunity challenge wins. And now I, listen, we're we have to, we're comparing nine people. Just two idols. Okay, we're comparing nine people that won the game. and actually she is as a physical player and I hope I'm not belonging up her spot I think probably would be much improved as a physical player and probably would be overlooked but as we're comparing

her resume to that of the eight other people who won the game I do think that when we're comparing her to other people so many of them have four immunity challenge wins that it is hard to say that okay, in addition to her game where she was largely at the bottom for most of the post merge and I know a little bit of that is by design and she liked being in that position I think that when we're looking at things

in terms of like her controlling what was going on on some of these other votes like did she want Tori to go home? Did she want Chanel to go home? That was an entire situation. No, but these were her for her allies. These were her like her friends. The story specifically is kind of specific.

No, but in terms of like the people that she is, you know, seen as sort of like with the people on the bottom at the beginning of the post merge. And it's not, you know, if you were going to draw it up, that's not really where you would want to be playing the game from. And she does, she is overlooked and she does all the things that Shannon you described so eloquently. Yeah. But it's an incredible game that she plays and is an all-time character. her. But that's why I have Marian at five. You know, Marianne as like a 23 year old on that season, isn't going to be able to come in and leaping. She'd be laughed out the door and probably voted out. You know, she plays the game that that demographic is going to afford her.

But that's the only game that we have to compare her. I think it was perfect. Like, that's the thing is like that self-knowledge of like knowing where you sit with that and then capitalizing on it as you can is amazing, you know, and she has two idols. So if we're going to talk about the trinkets and the way, you know, some people win four challenges and some people need to. I like Marianne better because she doesn't win an immunity challenge. I don't understand the people who win challenges. They're not my kind of film jerky. Um, kind of.

But like, she has two immunity idols. She has to sacrifice one to things that are bigger than the game. And then she finds another one. She never even needs it. And she brings that out at final tribal council. Like, it's kind of perfect. And she was never, you know, never blindsided. Like she's in a fight.

You know, she's in exactly the right spot. And then she builds, Natalie Anderson type. And the move of the final six was really special. That's really individual. You know, a lot of these other winners, you might say, like, that was really good, but like you did it as Tika, you did it with Rizzo, you know, like Marianne does that alone. I think that's really impressive. And this is all true other than my feelings for her generally, which are honestly pretty neutral.

I will say that Marianne has a great quote, I think in one of her confessionals where she said, People said you can't play the game with emotion, but look at me using emotions as a weapon. I think that's a really cool innovation that she brought to the game. And again, that all depends on perception. We have certainly seen as very recent as Sage about how that does not always work. But I think Marian was a very fun display, much like the machete, she wielded like a maniac in the pre-merge, that it can be used as a very blunt instrument that I think brings forward a sense of authenticity. I think that's where Marian also really succeeds is like she can't help.

but be herself. I think people really gravitated towards that because they felt that they knew who she was. And she wasn't putting up a front at all. But she was doing that to maybe obfuscate some of the gamier aspects to her journey. Well, she is able to wear as camouflage this like outgoing, bubbly, energetic personality. But behind the scenes that she was like so focused on what she wanted to do in the game, anybody that underestimated her was sorely mistaken. exactly and you say you're like playing the game with emotion and she wasn't that emotional

when she cut over right like that's the thing you have to do and other people really struggle with that I think how much we've seen other people struggle to pull off those end game moves turn on their allies only makes her win more impressive because it's like yeah it sounds easy it's actually really not it kind of seemed like it was easy for her which is crazy because again yeah we've seen if if sophie can do that in in 49 like she wins the game and she couldn't And that is, that's a chasm. So, yeah, I think that there's a lot here. I think that the face of the new era looks really different without Marianne doing all this stuff.

I think that it's pioneering. And I think Marianne winning is my favorite thing to happen in the new era. That was my favorite moment of all that. Okay. All right. Anything else about Marianne? Mike's number seven person. Don't remind everybody.

Number seven ranked winner. Is everybody just me? It failed so quickly. I'm like, guys, this is just fun. It's not important. It's subjective. And I immediately was such an insane hypocrite. I just wasn't expecting it.

So you're wielded emotions as a weapon. I think you made some salient arguments. I just feel like, again, we are splitting hairs here. And we're using different criteria. And so that's the criteria I utilized. So, Shannon, the bottom of our lists have been the same. We both had Gabler 9, Erica, 8, and then Kenzie 7. Yes.

Who do you have as number six? We know it's not Marianne. Oh, by the way, Erica was my number six. Okay. And then Mike has Erica as number six. He is my thing. I'm going to say my six and I'm willing to be convinced. I could flip five and six around.

And I'll tell you why. It's because it's recent. You know, like I haven't had time to sit with it, but I did have Savannah at six. Okay. All right. I'm still very between it. I'm still very between it.

Okay. Okay, let's talk about Savannah at six. I will say Savannah is not my number six. Nor I. I could be convinced. I think Savannah played a great game. This is what I'm saying. It's like she shouldn't, she's not, that's not commensurate.

Well, all right. So this is very much on our minds, very topical. Of course, Savannah, we all know four immunity challenge wins, was part of the Trace Sletches was down in the numbers at the beginning of the merge after the Nate vote, down seven to three, but then ends up winning the game five to two to one that we saw just but six days ago. Savannah is the anti-Kenzie. So everything we just said about Kenzie, just flip it.

Now you're up Savannah. It's a game to me of extremes in highs and some gaps, some low. So we're going to talk about that. She did lose out at the merge at that one vote, and that's very rare for a winner. I have a fact checker often puts out those stats. It is kind of unheard of to a degree to be completely out of the loop at the like, you know, table setting merge vote. But that only makes it that much more impressive that they come back.

And really she and Rizzo, as we just saw, absolutely dominate. Now, Savannah, as she said and she spoke to very fairly, her role in that was physical. And as we've just heard, I don't care about that, really. However, and that's my viewpoint, however, it was a strategic way to wield. that physicality. I think her role in that group was that she would wear the bullets. The way she individualized was she was the biggest threat. She would wear the bullets and she would then win immunity and she would deflect them off her entire group. And I do think that was incredibly important for the way they got through. Even when we talk about other winners who were

protected earlier on, you know, like Rachel's protected from even earlier through the game. Savannah's vulnerable at seven. And they don't get rid of her. And I bet they regret it now, as we kind of said at the time. So I do think some of the things that might take away from are firstly, how much, I mean, we have to credit Ritzow and Savannah, and I definitely do. But I guess maybe the first part is that they were doing it together, right? So like in terms of like that individualizing, we just talked about with Marianne's move, I do think it was a team effort with Savannah and Rizzo. The other thing is how much were the other side just making some pretty bad,

unforced errors that beggared belief. Now it's a hard one because that's unfair, but we do. We take that with Kim, right? Like the cars, you know, weren't really going on. But I, but I, but Kim is still a top tier winner for me. For sure, for sure. I mean, but then, like, I'm high on, like, Tony Winners of War because I'm like, those are winners.

A lot of it is Rosen and Savannah, of course, these things aren't binary, but like, man, what were Hina doing anyway? We have to talk about that. The other thing, of course, is the well-spoken about social gaps that, whether you want to talk about it at a final tribal council or beyond, were clearly there. We can also, though, we can also counter that with the fact that she got enough votes to win, enough of the social game was there. She was very influential at important votes like MC and Christina going out,

which was so important to her end game. And she had a great social game with her group. You know, Sophie, the very least tells her about knowledge of power, massively lessening her position there. So that loyalty, there's highs and social game. We just talk about with poverty, there's highs and lows. But there are gaps and there are highs, and that's Savannah's game. In Emily Flippin style, may I push back on the idea that Savannah has a bad

social game. Oh, please. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering if is it like maybe overblown that Savannah has a bad social game because ultimately who are the people that really objected to Savannah social game? Okay, her and Christina were never on the same page. But that was, but that was from the same page of the freaking preseason notebook. Like that like I thought there was going to be very little for the two of them to connect on from day negative one. But but tell let's I thought it was all an act. Remember when they said it was. goal and act. I mean, if we just take a look at like the players that she interacted with in the game, in her original tribe on Uli, she ends up bonding with Nate. She's looked at as the person who

everybody wants to work with. Works great with Nate. Works great with Rizzo. Whereas great relationship with Shannon. Sage wants to work with her. It's not until that she ends up feeling, she ends up finding later on. I think we use Sage as a credit. Hold on. Hold on. Let me let me let that I think I think Sage wanted to work with Savannah. It's not until later. I think that Shannon is the one who ends up poisoning the well between Sage and Savannah. And she, I forget exactly the conversation, Mike, right? There is a conversation where Shannon basically says.

Yeah, says like, oh, it's like, well, it's that Sage tells Shannon, we got to look out for Savannah. She could, you know, really make a dangerous run. And then Shannon reports that back to Savannah. and that's when a bit of the tumultuousness. Yeah. And then also, you know, her and Joanne, not necessarily on the same page. But Joanne did say that she put up a good front, that he had no idea how she thought about. That was mostly in confessional.

But then when you get to, after we have the swap, then here comes Sof and her and Sof Bond instantly. Yellow Sophie also, like, it really takes to Savannah, ends up warning Savannah about the attempt to take her out of the game. So really, and you saw how she was able to patch things up with Sage at the end of the game. So really the only person who walks away from Survivor 49, maybe not feeling super great about Savannah, is Christina. I think MC says some, in the ex-interviews I watched with both of you, like MC was kind of harsh on her. I think I'll push back on your pushback in that, you know, the way you're like, well, there are winners who would beat everyone. My metric is like there are winners who, like, no one feels.

that negative about them, right? So, like, I do think the way MC and Christine thought about them, Sage, it comes back. But, like, even Joanne, I mean, sweet Joanne thought, you know, he was too high on it. Like, I feel like it wasn't handled well with Joanne. He was trying his best. I'm not saying she's Kenzie in terms of the social. I'm just saying that, like, I think that a lot of the season was talking about, like, oh, bad social game, Savannah. And I think that ultimately, I think it ends up being, like, a fine social game. But as well, it's like, there's people who dislike her. Again, I think this is the old-school poverty style, which was not true of what we've seen of poverty

recently. And that's why I think it's, she wins five votes. She loses three was always so fitting to me. But in terms of that's how poverty won. And to be fair, poverty is also going to lose soon after that, and might still be Savannah, to be fair. You know, even with the people who like her, they don't like her the most. You know, when we talk about social game, she was not a winner who won because people liked her the most. I think she got votes from people like Alex and Stephen. I don't know about Sophie, who didn't like her the most of those three. So it's probably There are definite high spots

that she capitalized on It's a limited social game With high spots And then there are also lows And then there are some things that it's like It's just it's not as high as other winners That we might talk Can I ask? Is there a person

That you could put into the final tribal council That would have beaten Savannah? No, but it's not on social game Yeah But yeah, I think she Maybe Steven, people think Maybe Stephen, I think that that might be fair Because I think one of the reason

Why Savannah gets the vote she does Is because she's kind of perceived does the full package. Yes, she is not considered as like widely social player. Though I do think I've talked about this before that I think Christina's question was fair. And I think Savannah's answer was not a good look at all. But I also think what she does bring up in that is that like she was talking to people a lot about things in their lives. It just wasn't necessarily family members. That's something that Christina values, but she talked a lot with Alex about work with Stephen about her previous trauma. So she was still connecting with people, but not

in that incredibly visible way that she wanted. But yeah, I think that Stephen, again, this is one of those things that was not presented in the edit at all, but Stephen seemed to be the odds on consensus person to win. Yeah, I think if you put him into the final tribal council, and so it's Sof, Savannah, Stephen. I think that Stephen probably has Sage, Jawan, Christina, MC, Alex.

That's right, done. Yeah. So I think that probably she loses to Stephen, but I think she beats anybody else in the season. It's so interesting because social game, it kind of feels like it should be one way, like people like you, and I guess that is kind of what we're thinking. But there are other ways to be, I mean, highly classified.

You know, like, is it a social game to say she was highly respected, highly influential, like she had all of those things. That's the thing to me is that this is not a game built on the dimensionality of like, well, she won immunity and then she did nothing with it. You know, one thing that Sophie Sogretti told us is that Savannah was a key cog in her sort of flipping things over to the other side. That Savannah specifically had brokered this relationship to have Sophie. There's a reason why she gives her, you know, the information that she does about what's going on on the other side. So as Savannah mentions in her, you know, closing remarks, like she made relationships.

It was just the key relationships that she knew she needed to get her further in the game. And I think I did not have her, obviously, at number six. I had her higher. And I think what puts her there is that those categories that you were mentioning, those rounds, when she was not safe. And on paper, that should have been done. That should have been done and does it, even if there's a little bit of a scare that Rizzo might play an idol on her

from what they're talking about where they basically discounted Rizzo on the idol. Still, there should have been far more than enough momentum. She was the target assuming at the final 10 after Nate got booted. but she was able to utilize this to almost like Mike Holloway style almost to be able to wield some influence the winner I compare her to now it's interesting because I would say actually her closest game comparison is poverty and heroes versus villains where it's like here's someone who gets outed almost immediately as like one of the biggest threats to win is left in a very big hole at a certain point and somehow digs themselves out gets all the way to the final three rather impressively plays a very good physical game as well but This was brought to my attention that I think the more I chewed on it, the more I thought it was interesting. Savannah gives me a little bit of Chris Doherty from Survivor Vanuatu. I see it right there. Chris was even in a bigger hole than Savannah, but he found that backdoor.

He was able to make those relationships and exploit key weaknesses within that women's alliance. And I think Savannah and Rizzo in particular were able to do the same, where they realize, okay, Sophie doesn't really. vibe with Stephen and Christina anymore. Let's work on that. Oh, Sage is now a little separate from everyone because Joanne got voted out. Maybe we can work with her, Uli Strong, moving forward. And much like Chris, you know,

she does sort of get a little raked over the coals at final tribal council by being like, for Chris, it was we made this relationship and you lied to me. You know, how could you do that? You can't bullshit a bullshitter. Savannah was more so the opposite of like, did we connect at all?

But I think that in both cases, they were able to really impressively not only work their way out of things, but even when they were not safe and in theory should have been the next one to go home, no holds barred, they somehow worked their way out of the situation. Yeah, it's interesting you say Chris and you might even say like a Danny, these are the people who are left out right at the merge, which is so rare. Usually it's like they lose their alliance and then have to like soldier on and make it. Like that alliance just all did that. But then it becomes as well, like as you're saying she's a threat from the final 10.

and that's so impressive, but how much is it like Heena bumped into each other? Then that made a pile and then someone tripped over the pile. And that's what it kind of felt like the whole season. So I think, but they did do it. I'm willing to interrupt the five, I think. Okay. I'm willing to interrupt a five. And something that I've also been talking about with Savannah and something that I think

that she's really brought to the forefront of my mind and how we talk about these winners is that she has immunity wins that I feel like almost all of them, if not all of them were clutch immunity wins where that there were times where multiple times in the game she would have gone home had she not won immunity

so she's not a compiler when it comes to winning immunity challenges there were times where I'm sure she knew that if I don't win today I'm going to go home and I think that that really does help her case in the eyes of the jury of we wanted to get her out and she kept

winning immunity. I mean you have them rooting on Rizzo in the firemaking challenge to be like... And also sometimes not, though. Yeah, I mean, the... So the fact of the matter is, yeah, I did not have her... And she made the fire. Yeah. And she made the fire as well, even if she did the rare moment of lack of confidence in herself.

I mean, I think that sort of is what brings her down a little more than a few other winners in my eyes. She is not, you know, at the tip top of my ranking, spoiler alert. But it's because, yes, I agree, Rob, the ability to be able to pull a rabbit out of your hat and write the right time is great. You know what's even better? Not needing to be in that position in the first place. Sure. Sure.

Okay. So, Mike, we know that Shannon, you have Savannah here at six, correct? Yes, I believe so. I could interrupt a five. Yeah, okay. But you have her at six? At the moment. Your rankings are fluid?

Yeah. Okay. All right. She said, so then you'll have a new six. Yes. Okay. All right. Mike, where do you have Savannah in your rankings?

Number four. Number four. I also have Savannah at number four in my rankings. Okay. All right. So, Shannon, it's up. You can do whatever you want. We are hands off right now.

We're not going to try to influence anything. Okay. So Shannon may have a new number six. Okay. We need to lock this in because if your rankings were fluid coming in, we need them to be solidified for this exercise. I understand the assignment. I understand. That's so hot.

Savannah just won, you know, that just happened. I think, okay, I'll put Savannah up to five and I'll put my fifth down to six. Okay, all right. So, Shannon, will you reveal who your new number six is? Sorry. Newly demoted. Newly demoted number six. I feel bad now.

This is almost worse. The person who just dropped one slot down to number six. Savannah's so new this is a tier for me this 5 and 6 and I think Rachel and the issue

and the thing that really turned it around for me with Rachel in this discussion is like Savannah was immune it was vulnerable at 7 and she made it through

so for me it's not about how much you win it's how much you don't need to win and that vote to me is so impressive like they really had the shot and they did to take it Rachel's last vulnerable vote I think was nine.

And I don't, actually she went from final eight all the way to three. Yeah. So to me, I always had Rachel and Savannah like, and I,

you know, I had flipped it back and forth. I always had the neck, next to each other, but, it was a record setting immunity winner. Yes, but,

um, yeah, I, I do not have Rachel at number six. Oh, interesting. I, I want to,

I want to, I have her number five. I'm on the same way length as you, Shannon. okay i'm getting confused about where all right keeps on so i will say that i so i am the highest on the panel on rachel i have rachel at number three oh okay now now this makes sense given what you were saying rachel three savanna four now this makes sense given what you said about savanna in the idea of thriving under pressure that it matters less about the fact that she had to win out

more so about the fact that she did win out yeah yeah does anyone want to talk about rachel yeah i'd love to talk about Rachel. Yeah. So, Rachel, I'd say from, to her credit, let's talk about all of the positive first.

First, of course, for individual immunity wins, but also on top of individual immunity wins, she's probably the person in the new era who I would least want to go up against in any sort of puzzle competition. And listen, like she's not necessarily somebody who's,

who memorize them. She's doing it because she's that good at doing puzzles. Maybe the best puzzle performer, I think, in the entirety of the new era, maybe the show. She also is somebody who she has this poker background. She has this really great mind for the strategic maneuverings and the risk propositions that go into the game. So she can win challenges. She really understands all of the, like, complicated strategic maneuvering, pretty good social game. So to me, yes, she was not necessarily at the top of her starting tribe.

She gets blindsided on the onica vote. She could have gone home had it not been for due to getting really swap screwed. She gets saved by Saul with the, what is it called? Her power advantage and then comes out of that. But then really ends up working her way into this majority alliance. You shake your head. But really, she ends up with that it's, and they call themselves like the underdogs, even though they're the majority.

But it's like her and Caroline and Sue and Teeny and Andy. And they feel like that, you know, the top dogs of, you know, Kyle and Genevieve and Sam are at the bottom at that point. She has an incredible immunity idol play at six. She goes and gets an advantage, which she uses. She ends up surviving a final five vote where she blocks Sam's vote. She wins immunity when she would have gone home. She didn't know on Operation Italy.

And then she beats like a very worthy opponent in Sam in the final three. Yes. I mean, I completely agree with that. What is so interesting about my incongruent. feelings about Rachel. It's like, actually think out of all nine winners, she has like the skill set I would want to most be, have as a survivor player. Because I think generally, she is very astute. I think not a scoot. I think she has very good game instincts. And what is so weird about this is that this is not a game she wanted to play. It's really weird for me because I think that

Rachel would have wanted to play almost like a Sam game, a little brainier, a little more game oriented, but instead she had to become more of a Ben. She had to become more of a Mike Holloway because the target was on her back. I agree with you to a certain extent, Rob. She does, okay, she gets saved by Saul. She's left out of the Sierra vote. Okay, but now she's back in with this group that wants to take out. Not the show on the Sierra vote, she does play her shot in the dark. Which is one of the best applications of an advantage that I think we see in the new era. I think again, you speak to those games. Her mind. But so she's able to get in good.

with the underdogs, but it needs to be mentioned. Operation Italy, have Rachel not won immunity, she would have been gone. It would not have been Caroline. So I think we've asked her about this in her exit interview, and she still had the advantage. She had the vote block also, and I believe that she said that even if she didn't win immunity in that spot,

she would have blocked a vote, I believe, in that spot. So I don't know necessarily if she goes home, 100% if she doesn't win immunity at Operation Italy. So, again, that speaks to this weird dichotomy that Rachel is, which is someone that is able to utilize advantages, maybe to the best of their advantage, you know, and especially keeping all of this secret. You talk before with Mary Ann Shannon about, like, purely individual moves.

We have to talk about that idol play at the final sixth, which was so masterful from her sneaking down to the beach and hearing that everyone wants to take her out, to her any other there are many other players that would immediately after they lost immunity be like well i've an idol so you can't vote me out you know she would make that information public instead she lured them into that trap she brings up at file that tribal council first thing well i'm gone because i'm a big threat and she baits everyone else into talking about how good she is at this game and then she pulls an idol out and rachel funeral i'm still staying at the game it is incredibly

impressive. And again, the only reason why I have her further down is you talk about being blindsided. Yes, Survivor 47 was a season where everyone got left out from every portion of time, but she was left out of three very crucial votes. I would say as well that like she got what her, she got her way most of the time. I think one of the last thing she does, which is winning that final four immunity, she wanted Sam gone. She did not want Sam sitting in the final three. She chose the two people to put into fire. And Sam still prevent. failed in spite of that. And again, the idea that more so, again, I give her a lot of credit for being able to pull out these incredibly clutch victory.

She is an absolute puzzle queen. You know, I more so pride the games, I guess, of people who do not necessarily need to do that. And because challenges are also, not to say they're incredibly luck based, because obviously they're very skill-based etiquette and see. But like, for all we knew, she could have gotten a challenge the next day that she was not necessarily good at, you know? I think she was able to benefit a lot from the particular things that came her way during that time. And I don't really disagree with anything you guys have said. But I think we just waited differently and that bears out in the rankings. You know, yeah, as you said, the skill she has for the game in terms of she's likable.

She's super self-aware to the point where she's like, she knew that she was ending up playing this game. She didn't want to play the trinket game, the physical game, the puzzle queen. She's super smart. She's a big fan. It's super strategic. And she did have strategy down the stretch with this underdog alliance. Some things we didn't see with Caroline and Sue as well. So there was more than that we didn't even see.

the issue for me is I've always felt like Rachel is a better player than this game and that is things you can say about even people who win some of that's really impressive like when things went awry she still had the skills to pull it out in a game she didn't anticipate playing but when I look at the game itself which is what I'm judging it on and that's my criteria for it there are such highs and lows I said that a bit with Savannah Rachel makes it look even more extreme and that's why it was kind of perfect that she was in the middle but now I'm changing that you know she has gaps as we're saying being left out more than probably than any other winner in this new era, but she's also doing

something no one else is doing, innovating with the shot in the dark. There are things that no one else is doing. I do agree that Rachel's funeral is definitely in contention for one of these top moves from a winner. She wins four immunity challenges. With Rachel's funeral as well in terms of like she blackmailed Andy with her jury vote and then he came to her and gave her that information. Like she's wielding that very, very strategically. But yeah, I think for me it's that she's vulnerable ass at nine. She did, look, we don't know if she would have gone home. That's not, it's troding his immunity, whatever.

But it was good to have it. And, you know, and Genevieve's a bit of a shield and she's immune at six when she has to use the idol. But it was tricky. It was tricky. And I guess that physical defense and that individual physical defense just isn't as much of a value for me.

But I do think as well, she's spoken so well about being in the demographic when it's like, you know, as like a kind of young Asian woman, if she doesn't show her skills, early she might be an early boot and that's just a symptom of the game and the way that it may reflect parts of society she had to show her strengths then she became a threat and then she had to protect and she did so there's a lot of good there you know but i don't think she's a lucky

winner i think that she was very skillful but i do think that the gaps there will always make someone fall for me as well yeah to me i just don't see holes in her game i think that she's just such a complete player even when we take a look at like her there were holes what were the a literal hold, like the vote she's not in it. I mean, on the onica vote, I mean, I think that she, her, that she has Andy, who is very close to her and Andy is like such a interesting player in terms of like how he's going to change his allegiances, like numerous times where everybody in that tribe gets blindsided by Andy at some point.

He's with you. He mishandled Andy. Yeah. She mishandled. But he is, I think, a tricky person to play with because I think that he has also, like, a lot of interesting ideas about the game. But he also went back and forth with every single person from his starting tribe. So she, you know, is not clairvoyant necessarily to know, you know, where Andy is going. But I think outside of that, like, I don't think that there's a time where she's surprised by things.

She was surprised at operationally. operationally, yeah. Is it weird to say... And again, but that's Andy. She does have a blind spot with Andy. Well, Andy's not playing with it. Like, they have to talk about it, you know? Is it weird to say that, like,

if I were ranking these people as pure players, she would be near the top. But her winning game is in the middle for me. I am. I did think about this. If I was ranking, you know, it's a new season, new players, put any of these people in, Rachel, to me, is second.

Yeah. Yeah, of the winners. Okay. But that's not how I'm waiting this. But that's also not, yeah, it's not the game that we saw, you know? Mike, remind me again, where was Rachel in your rankings? She was number five. She was smack dab in the middle for me.

Number five for Rachel. All right. There's only three people we haven't talked about. I'm so confused about where all our rankings are. Okay. Let's go. Let's say, hey, so. I'm changing.

So, let me do this. So Shannon, your rankings are nine. Gabler, eight, Erica, seven, Kenzie, six is now Rachel. Apparently. Five is Savannah. Okay, yes. Okay, and then you have some combination of Marianne's four. Okay, Mary Ann, she's three.

Marianne is all the way at three, okay? All right. That's a tier for me. That's what I'm saying, that five, six, and then the tier. Mike your rankings are Gabler is 9 and then you have Kenzie at 8

then you had Mary Ann 7 Don't remind Shannon Okay and then you had Erica 6 Yep Rachel was 5 Yep and Savannah was 4 Savannah was 4

Okay My rankings are Gabler 9 Erica 8 Kenzie 7 haven't mentioned yet my number six person. Oh, and then Rob, bird. And then where were the other few? And then

I said Marianne was five. Savannah was four. And Rachel is three. So we need your one, two, three. No, one, two, six. I think I think I, I think I'm, I want to hear your six because, uh, I'm intrigued, Rob. Is this someone we're going to be talking about in proximity to you for the next couple months? I think that's where we're going. well that feels like you have insider information that maybe we should consider you know as the new era

has evolved i almost feel like this is like the breaking of the roger banister record of that as the you know as the seasons keep going i feel like maybe are the winning games getting better uh but But when we go back earlier into the new era, we were sort of in this era of looking at the games of these social players who aren't really big threats to win immunity. Maybe they get one. And then they stand there and that based on the sheer force of personality end up getting a win. and like these other players from the new era, like Erica and Gabler, and I have, I had,

I think that this person and Marianne, I have them in a tier. So I have Jam Jam at number six. Interesting. This is so interesting to me. It's a good thing Traders filmed before this ended up coming out. Otherwise, Rob, you might have had a real axe to grind going into the castle.

So, yeah. That's interesting. Jam Jam's number three for me He was number two for me Okay Wow So But again

I'm but I'm Okay well Yeah I find that interesting Because I feel like that you penalized Savannah for being part of a trio And here's Jenman very much In a trio And

Yeah you are right A trio really Between you know A Jam Jam of course A wonderful personality Carolyn, big personality. And then Carson is really the one who's holding that group together,

whereas that I believe at the final six and the final five, Jam Jam is working pretty hard to unsuccessfully get Carolyn voted out. Yeah. Should I change it? I put so much thought into this. So that's the biggest knock

against Jam Jam's game for me. That's why he's not number one or two is the idea that he wanted to go to the end with the three studios. Now, look, we don't necessarily know what that looks like. Carson has definitely said that he feels like he would have won. Jam Jam. Jam feels like it would have been closed between him and Carson. And that's something we'll talk about with a couple of other winners as well as to like purposely making their

path harder. But it's also this idea that like it could have been the harder path and still winning versus they would have won in a route no matter what. That's what's so hard. That is the biggest not for me against Jam Jam's game. And that's why I've really kind of wrestled with dropping him. I mean, I think after he won, I felt really high on his game. Sure. But then with that extra information, I mean, of those first four seasons, you could you could definitely argue that that was the best. And I did. Yeah, I did. Forty-two, 43, 44. I mean, what I'm saying is that I feel like that we then in, once we get to 45, I start to feel like we have like kind of a new standard for what a new era winner ultimately looks like. Yeah, I really

struggled with that with someone like a jam jam and like a kyle and i was honestly going back and forth because i feel like that two three four for me well i guess of jam jam jam marianne and kyle is so close but the thing with jam jam for me in terms of my value system like firstly on adversity again with like with kensi really faced a lot of adversity and handled it very very well um what tika were having to do he did he does like lose sarah but like again it's the same way i feel about Kenzie at the Randen Medivac. Like, who knows? And also, who cares?

Like, you make it to that merge. And then Tika did such impressive things very strategically. I think Jam Jam is a really big part of that. He's like a mole vote with Carson. I think he's really socially working across the aisle there. And then, yes, does he want to go to the end with Carson? He's helping him make fire. Would he beat Carson?

We don't know. You know, again, Schroding his jury vote. Very, very tough. The fact that it is close, at the very least, is a knock. I can't believe they were going to vote for Carson, by the way. I really like Carson, but, like, people usually struggle to, like, give it to young people. That's the other thing, too, is this also would not have been counting Jam Jam Jam's final tribal council, which is really good. Exactly.

So I think that's a tough one as well in terms of that. But, yeah, and he does also have some conflict, as we know with, like, Josh and with Carolyn, these things are not. But then Jam Jam, in other ways, I do think you have the extreme pros where it's like, he's so sparkly. You know, like that type of pure. social game and letting it get through to that point to me is so impressive and it was so strategically wielded and like those are my values that I'm waiting a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So actually I forgot by the way to make my previous winner comparison to Rachel. There is the Mike Holloway, of course, of like back against the corner wins out through immunity but is able to utilize it

effectively like actually instill change along with a very good idle play. I actually compared her a lot also to Nick Wilson who Nick is someone who also bitch super duper fan, also gets left out of the vote a few times has to kind of win out at the end. If you remember, he gets left out of the Davey vote and wins at five and four, but also knows how to really innovatively use advantages. He was the one that helped come up with the whole minority

vote split during the mayor of Slamtown vote, utilizes the vote steal. So like, has more of a well-round game. He also, does he play a fake idol before he plays a real idol? Yep, he's able to do that. He sort of does what, like, Rizzo was what we thought Rizzo was trying to do, which is like, play the fake to see how people

reacted and then play the real one. if need be. These are all the things people remember about Nick Wilson, I think. Exactly. They're like really just top of mind. But Jam Jam, and maybe this is why I have him so high, I think he

is the J.T. Thomas of the new era. Because if you look at J.T. Well, that's the case. That's a very, that's a 1.0. One point O. One point. Is Carson the Stephen? I mean, like they said at the final two, it could have been, honestly, because what's so interesting

about Jam Jam and JT's similar course is that both of them enter the merge in an extreme minority. And I think unlike JT, Jam Jam Draws. And he's vulnerable at the Mergatory also. Yes, he gets his, he the only votes,

he gets one vote after the first two rounds, but he's incredibly vulnerable at Mergatory and at the Split Tribal Council. And it's through like only being a select number of options. But from then on out, his name is not uttered on anyone's lips. Because everyone likes him. Everyone wants to work with him.

He is part of a trio that somehow impossibly runs things down into the end game. And much like JT, he is so jovial and comedic and warm on the surface. And it sheaths that cold blade that he could really pull out at any time. Yes, he does not make the move against Carolyn. He makes the move against a lot of other people

that he makes a lot of key bonds with. You know, I think that that post-merger is dictated a lot by the Tika 3 swinging over to the Ratu, the Orange Tribe side of things. They take out some Ratu and then they join up with Ratu. Jam's a big part of that. He talked about, he made the... this really big relationship with Jamie and with Lauren that they work their way all the way down

to the- And Heidi, he also is a good relationship with also, yeah. Exactly. Very good relationship with Heidi, too. I think that what puts Jam Jam above another social winner like Kenzie, it's interesting that you say like she's the prototypical social winner. I think Jam-Jam is more so representative of like utilizing social game and essentially using it as currency. That's what you say all the time, Shannon, right?

That's the currency you take in and then you spend it. And Jam-Jam certainly did in saying, hey, hey, you like me, you want to work with me? Here's who we're going for right now. And I think he was able to do that to great effect. I do think it still holds up even after nine seasons as a superior game. So it's, yeah, you're cementing that ranking for me because it was, it's the adversity getting through socially strategically, which is so much my value system. And then it is that the murgatory vote and then that split tribal council, which was so tough.

Like, he faced so much adversity, which some of these other winners didn't. And I just, I have to wait it on that. think he did it really well. And I think what Tika did as a group was special. But I think some of the diversity he faced in that was very individual. So I have to, yeah, I have to credit that. When I built these rankings, I really felt like that I saw three very clear tiers. And we'll talk about the top tier more as we get there as far as I'm concerned. But to me, I felt like that we talked about that bottom tier where I felt like that Kenzie Gabler, Erica are there and you could figure out the order. But then I felt like that in the middle, I felt like that him and Marianne,

were right there in terms of these larger-than-life personalities who also use that personality to sort of hide a strategic game. I think that Marianne's move at six is a single, more impressive move than anything that we saw from Jam Jam and Survivor 44. I think that probably his best strategic move comes on the Brandon vote when him and Carson that they both vote, I believe. they both vote for Frannie knowing that Danny is going to play

the idol and that's a really great move and that was innovative in terms of putting votes on a person that they knew would get nullified by the hidden immunity idol but I think that he's part of a group whereas Marianne ends up as Shannon illustrated is more of a lone wolf in the game

so I feel like that there wins that have some similarities, but I have Marianne over Jam Jam, jam in that middle tier of winners. Yeah, I just, yes, it's as a group, but that group's doing so much impressively. And I think his survival is very individual in terms of, of that adversity. But the things you're describing, it's like, that's what I love, you know, like in terms of it being like that like social strategic maneuvering compared to someone like Savannah, who did the same thing. But I felt like her placement was physical, which again, and strategically physical, as we're

saying, but that just matters less to me. That's done. That's my thing as well, which is, again, why I go back to the JT comparison where he was maybe strategically operating as a group, but he was individualizing every relationship that he had, which I think does help in a game like this, especially when he is sitting. If you want to go to the end with his allies, that's how you differentiate yourself from an ally, right? As you say, hey, I know you, though. We have this thing going on that you don't have with Carson that you don't have with Carolyn. I think he was very purposeful in that. I think he is also, again, a skill set that applies not only to, uh, survive every survivor season, but maybe as we'll see very soon, to a lot of reality TV shows where he just like, he's a charmer. You know, he is able to just, and I think the way that he was able to bring in that incredible quote in his final tribal about like, when I heard you talking about your dog, I saw the sparkles in your eyes. And then when you were talking gay with me, I saw it go away. And so I knew you were lying to me is a way to describe one of the most undescribable aspects of the game, which is the social aspect. I think that something else that I awarded to some of the

other players is that I feel like that there are some other players on this list that have like very clean games who never have sort of like messy altercations with other players in the game. And so I feel like I really respect the players who just are keeping their game a little bit more focus and not getting drawn into sort of like petty squabbles with other players. But that's also authenticity to a certain aspect, right? Like, I don't think Rachel Lamont is scrapping with anybody anytime soon. That's just jam, jam in a nutshell. And I think that shows, again, the fact that he did lead with his whole personality,

which showed he was his authentic self. Also, Simon Taisley saying, hey, you can laugh at my jokes. And, you know, you can talk about how me and Josh are getting in fights down at tree mail. But, like, I'm coming for all y'all. No, I agree. That's a flaw. Like, I mean, I agree with Rob. Like, you know, you shouldn't be fighting with people. Like, in a perfect world, if you're a survivor robot, you're not going to be

doing that. I think the Jam Jam and as well, it ended after the season and there's been no drama since and I think that would really have to look at that. So no, I mean, look, there are definitely things to point out there as social flaws, but also a lot of, it's interesting, these players are really hard to rank when they're so extreme. And then you're going to rank them against people who are so measured, probably next. Measure is a good word, yeah. Yeah.

Okay. That is interesting, yeah, that I don't know how these are all going to average out. but you know you two are putting jam jam and marion in the same tier they do kind of occupy the same space as like unexpected quirky character who is able to play an underrated cutthroat game when you least expected yeah i like that i like all of that not people where you see it coming you see the personality first and you don't really see what they're doing strategically and and they're very easy people to like and root for especially when you first meet them yeah okay all right so that do i have uh okay so shannon you said that you'd marry in at three yes correct

so i believe this that is it correct to assume that that that we all have not revealed our number one and number two yeah i have one and four i doubt jim jim jim was two okay or shannon yeah all right all right so shannon i guess should you give us your number four again i could i could I could have been convinced I was struggling with this last night, but I don't know. At a point, should I be backing myself? Kyle is the winner.

I said Rachel second. Carl is the winner I would choose to throw into any season. Yeah. Kyle, I rue the day I didn't trust him. He is like he's he ticks every box. Yeah. He has no question marks on this game. Maybe we can talk maybe.

It's so consistent. and he as a player is he's smart he's strategic he's physical he's likable he has great reads he's never going to be gone early like a lot of these other players even if you compare to like a d definitely jam jam jam marian people are actually put higher than him which is weird because he actually was going to be gone early had he not played that idol at the swap or he was shahing found it well he was swapsed to be fair like that's like a luck base and i really don't like when people are like well you know people could go like rachel as an example she could have gone on that split tribal it's like then she would have been swapped

The fact that she got out of it in any capacity only puts her back to neutral. I feel the same with Carl, but it was actually to a positive because he did it so well. That's actually one of the flashiest things you can say about his game. But Kyle, like in a perfect world, like there are other players here who are extremes who could draw attention early. Jam, Jam could. Marianne, certainly. I don't have any of that with Kyle. I really trust him as a player.

Not everyone. And so did everyone. My thing with him is his game has few of any question mark. it is super steady he gets into this alliance he reads a jury a hell of a lot better than i read that jury i spoke to joe in san francisco i was like i thought you were going to win he was like me too i was like that was shocking for both of us um and i feel like with kyle it's a very unique jury to read i said at the time people have you know lost out thinking they could be the kyle before and now they'll probably do it more so like i don't need to vote out that big threat i'll just sit with them i'll

have my cake and eat it and then they have no cake at all and kyle ate that cake so i um He's kicked up. Exactly. You'd go there. And I still said it, like, in the moment I felt it. He should have been targeted. He wasn't. Yeah.

He was, and I guess my thing with him, and I guess why I put him at four, and I, and I wrestled with it, is the adversity thing. Like, this season was made for these types of players. It was a big, strong guy season. And sitting at the end with Joe and Eva was apparently, like, the winning thing. and they were happy to do it. So it's like, I don't want to take away from it because he knew when to undermine.

He knew to undermine it at the Shaheen vote. He knew to undermine my taking Joe at the final four. He played it perfectly, but he didn't have to do anything spectacular. And I just think the root was a little more simple than we talk about for like a jam, jam, Marian, etc. So Kyle was somebody that I really struggled to place in my rankings where I always had Rachel and Savannah, like, handcuffed.

They were always going to be neck and neck and back-to-back in my rankings. Kings. In the earlier draft I had, I had Kyle behind them. And then I ultimately, as we got closer to recording, I ended up flipping it where I put Kyle in front of them just because

that I feel like that it is and the reason why I struggled with this was that for Kyle, as Shannon mentioned, that there's no, there are no holes unlike the movie that his favorite movie. And then it always great movie taste as well. But that being said, the person he shares

the love of the movie with is Camilla and he basically has this like this is like a loved one that is secretly playing the game that they have this unbreakable bond from day one and in some ways

like it is very hard to split the baby of what was Kyle and what was Camilla and they just have this like unspeakable bond from day one and you could say okay that speaks to maybe both of their social games,

that they have that, but it's a little hard to parse him as a player without also then how do we factor in what was Kyle and what was Camilla? I don't struggle with that, really. It's a certain extent. I mean, I'm very different spots in the season. I also feel like Kyle himself has said in the exit press

that maybe the relationship with Camilla was a little overblown. Like he would say that they would have like 30 to 45 seconds. Yeah, I mean, he said in my, interview with him. But he said it right before he went on 50 with her. That also could be true. He did say that most of the time with Camilla, it was that they would have like 30 to 45 second meetings in the jungle and then go off. He said that actually like Kyle's relationship with David was one of the ones that he actually cherished for the majority of the game. So that all being said, his end game is so interesting and is the reason

why he's my number two. Now that's interesting that the two of you were like, okay, is he going to be you know four is it going to be behind rachel behind savannah he was always put him in two i was thinking about oh he was yeah he was always going to be either number two or number one for me and i feel like that's also been a lot of the discourse of the over the past year has been okay d or kyle but i think for me kyle's weakest spot is the fact that he does a great job in getting to the end game with people who would take him to the end he very purposely tried to fix things in a way where he's able to as you said have his cake and need it to he's in the final four with camilla with joe with eva we don't talk about the fact that he has an incredibly strong relationship with Eva as well.

She's like his best friend now outside of the show. Him and Joe had this incredibly emotional, personal connection too. So he was going to be safe no matter what, but now we go back to the gaveler of it all of like, okay, but who would he win against? And I think something that does discredit to Kyle a little bit is the idea that, yes, you're saying, Shaden, that maybe the path for everyone was to take Joe and Eva to the end. But Kyle himself has admitted, like, this was sort of the harder path to take to go up against these two people that can claim they dominated so much of the post-merge.

But I back myself, I do it, and he was able to do so. I would say another thing that I struggled with was that is the killer instinct there for Kyle in terms of like, you know, that he has this, the relationship with Camilla is like tough to understand from an outside's perspective, even though they barely are even friends. They don't even really like each other, allegedly. Yep. They sort of like agree like, hey, well, like we shouldn't both go to the final three. Like one of us should go to the jury and help the other person win.

Like that is uncommon. That is not a normal thing to have in the game. So I feel like that Kyle gets like an easy out there in terms of having to part with his number one. He chooses to go to the end with Joe and has a correct read on the jury. But it seems like that if that was, if that wasn't the read, like would Kyle be able to have voted out Joe if he needed to again I'm not sure we didn't have

to see it we saw it with Shaheen and he did pull the trigger there but that was the thing that was giving me pause between putting him at the second best winner of the new era versus the fourth best winner of the new era high praise either way I completely agree I feel like for me

the question marks were well why did he go with Joe is it was he always going to be Joe is that tellable these things aren't binary that really i try to get that definitiveness but often it's not possible did he just not want to we see confessions where he's like it actually tears him up is it that morality which i would highly criticize yeah criticize the heart that's exactly what i'm trying to say um or is he like i think i can be joe and then he does and it like speaks for itself that he can have the cake and eat it too these things probably aren't so cut and dry i want to give him

the grace because i was reading the jury so badly and it was such a difficult jury i think to read a unique jury. I want to give him the grace to be like, I think I can sit with Joe. I think this is a good pathway. And I think, and I hope that that was true early on. Because again, that's not what the players were saying, but whatever he was reading into himself, like the self-awareness, into his competitors and someone like Joe, and into the jury worked out in a way that I was wrong. So I can't be like, but also did you just really not want to? He's like, well, who won? Who won a million dollars? So, yeah, I think I want to give him that, that grace on that. So the comparisons that I have to Kyle in terms of winners are,

I think two fairly underrated winners. I think one of the biggest one for ones is Sophie Clark, right? This idea who is in a majority alliance is in a good position to make a lot of the decisions and you wonder on paper, why are they not taking out coach? Coach is a returning player. Coach is running everything. Another player that similarly based a lot of their gameplay, the edict of the season was about honor and loyalty.

But then goes to the end with that person is able to make an argument and that other person's able to get sort of a shot out for their hypocrisy in said edict. And he takes home the win. I also see a lot of comparisons or a lot similarities between him and Tommy Sheehan, teacher Tommy. I think that he was somebody, both former teachers as well. But I think Tommy was someone who did a really good job with just being in the middle of everything. Not only from a strategic and positioning perspective was very rarely in danger. Kyle, the most he was in danger was that swap screw vote. He really is not a name on anyone's lips, the entirety of the postman. merge. And the final thing I'll add is that, Shannon, you talk about adversity, but Kyle kind of had to play the game in handcuffs because you think about what was the ruling edict of that season, right? Which is like, don't stray from the six. We make a decision as a group. We stay loyal until the end. Kyle knows if he burns that group, then he's lost the game, essentially. But how does they do that while also furthering his own agenda, which is this outsider Camilla that he wants by his side? So he is able to subtly,

manipulate the David vote, the Shaheen vote, to pick off these outsiders while also still maintaining what he wants at the end of the day. He was able to work within the very stringent framework of the season to get the outcome that he desired. And I think that's incredibly commendable. It's good. It's not like spectacular. I think, you know, in any ways it was kind of easy, but also was it easy because he just, he made it look easy because of his relationship's probably also that. I think it's probably both things. The structure suited him and boy, did he play it well. All right.

Now, we only have one person left to talk about, and it's our consensus number one across the board, the best winner of... One and nine. We went a little crazy in between it. Okay, of the new era, and that's somebody who we will see with Kyle returning back to season 50, and that is going to be the winner of Survivor 45. D. Viadaris, here she is. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. Space for itself. Should we move on? No, I mean, like, you talk about the full package. Holy moly. Like, this was cemented for me. The second people were talking about 45, how she has is like one of the most dominant winners of all time, let alone in the new era. And yes, yes, the argument can be made of like, look at the competition that was up against her. There's a reason why that was the case. Who said that? The competition was bad?

A lot of people say like, well, because the Cotora, you know, like the bellows were all taking each other out, et cetera, et cetera. But who do you think was engineering to make sure that the people that were going against her, that were the biggest threat to her stability to her alliance, went out early. The Devenge plot was there for a reason.

Kayla, Kendra, anyone who said D is a dangerous player had to go. That is something that you can't necessarily say about people like Rachel and Savannah, who had some of their biggest detractors all the way until the end of the game. Yeah. You talk about making relationships and utilizing them.

Like, the one-two punch of that Emily vote and Drew vote are, for lack of a better term, cinema. Yeah. Well, please. Yeah, it's really hard to poke holes in her game where she wins challenges. She has, like, a great social game. Everybody that she meets in the game

wants to work with her. People do see her as a threat, but they're unable to ultimately do anything about it. She's willing to cut allies. She ends up then taking, you know, building on the Marianne thing of not necessarily revealing a in-game trinket, but at least an in-game secret to the jury to great effect against Austin. She ends up being in like a really good position all the way through.

I think that I would say that she does face adversity, but is able to navigate it in a really positive way, where it doesn't really end up where she's like very much in a bad spot. I think the one thing, like the one thing that I saw that I could say like poke a hole in, there is no perfect winner here in the new era is at the final five vote. If Jake and Kutura have their act together, D is voted out at the final five. Can I push back on that? Please. Yeah. Because that is the main thing people say about D. The final five was messy.

She votes for Kutura who has the item played. She votes alone and a 2-1-1-1. How many ones did I do? It was 2-1-1-1. It was three ones. Anyway. And Julie goes home. And I think they were like, well, D could have gone.

But D didn't go for reasons that D created. The reason Katura does not want to go for D even though she absolutely should. and it was a conservative thing to do is because D is insulated in a way Julie isn't. And the reason that D is insulated by votes that will never vote around if it gets to a re-vote

is because Austin and Julie prioritized D I think often over themselves. Julie in that vote when it's tricky and tight should be going to bellow and saying let's take out D it's best for my game

and it protects me and Julie does not do that. The loyalty that she created with Austin and Julie were insane. She could be a cult leader. Like that level of that is insane to me. And I think that final five, well, it wasn't perfect.

I think she underestimated Jake. She's not voting with Julie. Like, it definitely gets messy. I'm not saying it's perfect. But I think that she had done the building blocks to that vote so well that she's insulated to the point where when she doesn't go, that protectiveness is earned. And the reason it's earned is because it comes off the back of that seven, six. As Mike said, I think one of the, for me, other than the Mary Ann move, the best move of these winners,

is that seven to help Emily go with protecting Julie and then taking out Drew. and then to reveal it at the final tribal council, this incredible end game where it's so decisive how much she has just slaughtered, Austin. It's a chasm between them. I think that's really impressive. And I think that the pacing through the whole season, she's a little messy early with the seafood stuff,

but the fact that the Reba fork can control, they have this fodder, they everyone else, whether they biff it or Reba's helping them bivit. I mean, you have also the way we do with Rizzo and Savannah. Credit what Reba is doing. And then she hugely individualizes, I think, compared, to great competition with her reba allies.

Julie and Austin and Drew, she destroys them all. And I think that that is a really impressive overall game. I think that the floors are overstated. And I think that there's a body of work there that's incredibly impressive. And then as a player, like she's sparkly, she's physical.

She has these extremes of good. She may be a little spicy as we said a little messy early, but she's hugely like manipulative of these reba allies. Like I think she's got a lot of good stuff. And I think that's why we all put it first, maybe. And I think we go back to Rob the central question of like, okay, who do they not win sitting next to? And I look back from D down,

I think the person she maybe who stands the best chance of beating D is Emily. What about Julie? I don't know. I don't think so. I think Julie should take not D. Like, I think D was that to Julie. Well, if Julie was at the final three,

like I feel like that they spoke very highly of her. I honestly don't know if the jury votes for Julie over D if they're both there. Again, she has such a good final tribal council when she can speak to her move in, um, in Julie playing that idol and Drew and all of that. I wouldn't want to go up against these. I think she probably does have, because I think the votes that she gets in terms of Emily

and she gets Kay, does she get Caleb also? She gets Caleb as well, yeah. She doesn't get the only people she doesn't get, she doesn't get Bruce because she does, she does throw shade at Bruce, which she's not happy about. And then Drew for obvious reason,

then Kendra had a close relationship with Austin, but she gets everyone else's votes. And she would have gotten Jake's vote if it was a tie as well. Okay. All right. So. I don't even think, like, She loses those words to Austin.

I don't even know if the cast at that time understood, like, what she had just done to Austin. You know what I mean? Like, I think, like, maybe it was taking you a lot of catch up to just how thoroughly she could. I think another argument is like, well, she only did what she could because Austin was in love with her. And it's like, yeah. How many other gentlemen and winners had people fall in love with them, either protonically

or romantically. Like, it's a quality that's a little good to have. And it's almost the opposite of Kyle, honestly, that Kyle felt so personally guilty by all of these moves he had to make and personal relationships he had to betray. D was more than happy to flossing her teeth with all those jugulars. Okay. All right. I want to get to the fan vote component of this.

So here's what we asked people to do. We put out the survey and we asked people to rate each winner on a scale of 1 to 10. And then we took that number from 1 to 10 and then ranked them 9 through 1. Okay. So by doing it that way, we got a ranking in the order of finish for these listeners. Okay. All right. So over 5,000 people voted. We have our 30% vote cast. Okay. Now we will factor in the 70% audience vote. Okay. And see how we rated. Okay. All right. So here we go. Here we go. The audience had the same number nine ranked winner from the new era for us. And that was Gabler. Okay. So Gabler, Consensus, number nine pick.

Gabler was ranked number nine. Okay. There you go. Don't say that. Okay. All right. The audience then had their number eight ranked winner of the new era the same as Rob and Shannon.

It was Erica. Okay, interesting. Okay? So I'm assuming that makes her number eight overall? Yes. Okay. The audience then also had the same seventh place ranking as Rob and Shannon. So Shannon, so far, you and I are perfect in lockstep with the audience.

Kenzie was ranked number seven. Okay? Okay. Well, at least that feels clean. Like, Mike's kind of somewhere, but that at least is clean. I'm messy. I'm a messy bitch. Okay. And one will probably be pretty definitive. But it's going to get messy now. It was an extremely close vote between five and six. The audience, the audience said that their number six winner, ranked from the new era, was Marianne. Underrated queen. People will know in the future. And number five was Jam Jam. So the audience and I are very much in sync of the bottom tier, middle tier, very close, Mary Ann Jam Jam.

Rob's numbers are very similar to the audience. He's reading out. You think I'm lying? Why? Why would I do that? Because I would. You know what I mean? Why would I give out fake poll results?

I don't know if you were like stupid competitive and you wanted to be right, maybe. Yes. Okay. so all right number four the audience said the number four ranked winner of the new era was Kyle wow oh interesting that's oh wow oh we're in a place I didn't expect yeah have you done for me lately and that's win a bunch of challenges the audience then and two and three was also very close that makes sense and it was two people that I said also I had a hard time.

I had them back to back in my rankings. Number three, the number three ranked winner of the new era. They said Savannah was number three. Oh my gosh. This is so different to mine. I'm going to get the most of the death threats. The number two ranked winner of the new era was Rachel, which was the audience has Rachel higher than any.

I had Rachel at three and I was highest in the panel. The audience has Rachel at two. Ooh. And the number one ranked winner of the new era, According to the audience, is D. Vidar. So, D was number one in the audience poll and in our poll. So she is the consensus winner. Okay, so now, let's factor in...

It's fun to find out what you'll get flame for in real time. Okay, exactly. All right. So here are the full rankings. Let me make me preemptively compare for my mentions. Okay. This is combined from the audience with the audience total and now with our panel results. Okay.

number nine Gabler number eight Erica number seven Kenzie number six Mary Ann

I couldn't change it number five Jam Jam number four Kyle number three Savannah number two

Rachel and number one D wasn't that just the audience I was going to say we didn't even We, our ratings didn't even matter. We gave the audience too much say. So if you don't like, I'm not necessarily following him. If you don't like them, we had to say, then you just go with the audience.

That's the thing. If you were right at the end of the day. So I was struggling with Kyle, like I had, you know, Rachel and Savannah in lockstep, and I said, should Kyle be above them or below them? I ultimately said Kyle above them, but the audience said Kyle below them. But the audience, Paul did, I feel like, really mirror my list of that you have that. you have that top tier of these people that won three and four challenges in D. Rachel, Savannah, Kyle, then the big personality, the sparkly personalities who then secretly played

this strategic game in Marianne and Jam Jam, and then are sort of like low key under the radar winners with a social game in Kenzie and Erica and Gabler. That is interesting. Yeah, I guess like it became more, like, a, they had 70% and then Rob was so similar to them. then it was like 80%. So like even if we went a bit off book, me in the middle, Mike Moore at the bottom,

like that wasn't going to affect things. I think it is so interesting. I think this exercise has shown how difficult it is. You know, like someone like Rachel who's second, I'm saying has the most highs and lows. So it's really just how much you weight those highs and those lows. Some people might,

you know, she could be across the whole spectrum. She landed up here. Interesting exercise. That was so. But I like how we did it. We gave our takes first. We weren't biased.

by knowing like what the audience was going to say and so we we talked it through and you know gave our thoughts and then we ultimately got to hear what the audience thinks so uh this was i thought this was great it was this was fun i had a lot of fun with this i mean i think what's so interesting is that we are essentially jurors here in that we are dictating what is a better winning game from our perspective and so your mileage may vary uh i am so sorry to the people who i ranked low you're welcome, I guess, to the people who ranked high and even to see how our own results shut up against what the audience feels.

Don't apologize for anything, Mike. That's how the audience voted. You affected nothing. As a juror, how much of these winners can name my loved ones? Bet you Mary Ann could. So, yeah, Rachel, maybe. And that's how I'm going to place my things in the future. And they're all Survivor winners,

and none of us can say that we are. They all won in the ways that they did with the cast that they did in the season. that they did and nothing can take that away. And I feel like that we've been nothing but respectful to all nine of the new era winners that we talked about. I think I was really respectful to the winners. I don't think I was very respectful to Mike.

You were fine. I've seen you much worse on a podcast. Maybe I'd be able to have a million dollars. Yes. Oh, I'm going to miss off friendship. All right. Let me start off by saying that, hey, if you like talking about Survivor stuff like this, you're going to love the book, The Tribe, and I have spoken.

No winner rankings in here. but we'll be talking about all of the icons and titans of Survivor, all here in one place as we talk about all of the lore and legacy over 25 years of watching the show. We love so much. Go to robesabook.com to pre-order the tribe and I have spoken, filled with beautiful artwork that will be in color in the finished version. Are you going to put your winner rankings in there?

I don't know. I think I just gave you the new era winner rankings. You should have to listen to it with a TLS list and then fill the 30s in if you want to. Yeah. Okay. All right. Shannon,

what's coming up for you? You know, it's the holidays, so not a lot. Oh. I covered Survivor 49. If you want more takes on Survivor 49, I had a great,

so I have a global finale recap with Karen from Brain Fibre 1 2. We spoke about all of these things. I didn't really get into the Savannah winner rankings because I knew I'd do it here. So there's that. And then in the new year, obviously, Australian survival will happen.

And I'll start doing that and then I'll stop doing that. But there will be coverage on the Google Survivor feed. Gus and Around, my husband and I do that together. If you want some holiday listening, Gus and Round podcast on YouTube, on Spotify, Apple. That's just about our life. And at Shannon Gates, where you can find all of that. Mike, what about for you?

You know, it's the holiday. So a lot. Rob, you and I will be getting together in a short amount of time to do our year-end tradition at brand steel of some of the most memorable moments, characters, et cetera. You're going to listen to that, Shannon? Yeah, obviously. Is there a writing candidate?

Who should we have on the cash, Shannon? Rob Sustanino. He wrote a book. He's going on the traders. Yeah, that's next year. You best put him in. Put me in next year. He should be in both years.

He should be in both years. What happened this year? It's been such a long year. You will find out in due time as Rob and I will get together at the end of the year. I'm doing a reality flash as well about some of the biggest reality TV stories from this year. It was a big year for unscripted television, especially with what's to come. I will not say much, but I do have some Survivor 50 stuff coming up,

even before we get any sort of embargo lifted for the preseason interviews I did out there on at the island. A bit of a refresher, perhaps, much like we did today, as to some of those 50 cast members. And I will also say not to volunteer the time of our three too much, but like, if you want us to do like a new era of seasons ranking I think that could be very fun let's see how this goes let's see how it goes but if you want it if you want it listen I'm casting the bait out there

see if they they bite the hook like Shannon said it might be less contentious but especially after the audience vote I'm really intrigued to see how people rank these things. Can I tell you the next podcast that I want to do and I already told Brandon I think this might be a patron podcast

I want to do on fire season 50 podcast host draft oh that's a good one yeah that could go anywhere well especially now that we have the celebrity angle like that really widens the pool oh my god don't please i'm still recovering that's a good podcast right that's a good it's a great podcast yeah so otherwise yeah at a mike bloom type all right thank you so much i am looking forward to a very polite discourse in the comments on YouTube and I'll be reading all your comments and if anybody gets too out of pocket guess what you're gonna get blocked we're gonna delete the we're gonna delete the message

so that's not the type of community that we have on RJP where you just get to say whatever you want or if you do like at least like try to make it funny and artful okay yeah please it's Christmas it's Christmas be creative with your insults if anything be creative all right Thank you. I had so much fun doing this. The time flew by. I love that this is the type of content that we get to make here on RHAP. I hope you enjoyed it to have a great holiday, everybody. Merry Christmas, everybody this week. Take care of a good one. Bye. Hey, Rob here, and you know at RHAP, we're always talking about the ways to optimize your strategy on all of our favorite reality TV games. But there's a guy that I listen to. to in real life, who's the knowingest know it all when it comes to how to deal with your money and all sorts of other areas of your life. It's called All the Hacks, and it's hosted by the master optimizer, Chris Hutchins. This is a podcast I've actually listened to for a couple of

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