RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor San Juan Del Sur Ep 2 | 10 Year Anniversary

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

It's been 10 years since Survivor San Juan Del Sur premiered and Rob Cesternino (@RobCesternino) and Josh Wigler (@roundhoward) are back to talk about it! Rob and Josh will discuss episode 2 of San Juan Del Sur and compare it to the new era of Survivor.

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or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Ten years ago tonight, it was the first ever live RHAP event. And also the second episode of Survivor San Juan del Sur.

I'm Rob Sestrino. Back again to talk with me about it is Josh Wiggler. Josh, how are you? I'm doing particularly well. I have some exciting newsrino. Back again to talk with me about it is Josh Wiggler. Josh, how are you? I'm doing particularly well. I have some exciting news for you. Yeah? I have two immunity idols. We have two things to talk about.

Yeah. We've got two things to talk about. We've got idol number one, Survivor San Juan del Sur, still iconic, 10 years and one week later yeah and another idol to talk about my good friend rob sestranino who is celebrating the 10th anniversary of the first ever rhap live no idols first ever uh live uh no it alls I should say. Because we did do at least an event talking about the- Not the first live event. Not the first live event.

We did do a roast. I believe also I had done some Big Brother live shows. But first ever Survivor live event in New York City. The first ever live know-it-alls. October 1st, 2014. And here we are 10 years later. It was the night of episode two of Survivor San Juan del Sur. And Josh and I went back and looked at that.

And a fun little hour of Survivor. Remember when Survivor used to be only an hour? I was having this thought because I've been having this conflicting feeling of, one, 90 minutes is a lot to ask every single week. That's a lot of time to put in your life to watch a show. Um, but having just finished rewatching, or I guess for me first watching 45 and that, and 46, a couple of, uh, months before that and getting those 90 minute episodes and just how full they end up being like, you're not getting like a playing with the boys

montage unless you've got that extra 30 minutes you know what i mean and like san juan del sur specifically this episode it felt fast it felt like real condensed uh and i think part of that too is like the multiple challenges in the 60 minute, like 42 minute format. It's a lot that's condensed. Having said that this episode specifically, I feel like has a lot of gold in it. Yes. That like was immediately apparent and has,

has like surprisingly stood the test of time. Some of the lines from this episode. You know, it's interesting that, and somebody checked the math here. Um, won't be me. The show is now 50% longer.

Yeah. But the time they film it, I believe is now, if not 50% shorter, um, it's, 33 shorter what are you even talking about the show is that it used to be they used to film it for 39 days and make a one hour tv show now they film it for 26 days and make a 90 minute tv show are Are you feeling jilted? Are you feeling like they should have shown more back in your day? No, I'm not jilted.

I'm just saying that maybe that you've shown, you probably, I do think I expect you probably like dodged a little bit of a bullet in them, not having like the 90 minute episodes in the Amazon era. I mean, I might've had 300 confessionals if they had 90 minute episodes. More time for me. Do you know your confessional count? I don't know what it is. I want to say it's like 100, but I don't know exactly. But that being said, no, I don't. Are there survivor

players who you think know what their confessional count is? I don't think many, because I think that it's such a like inside baseball stat to know how many confessionals a player has. We're talking about a survivor era that's 10 years ago. Can we say it properly? Inside Schmergen Brawl? Inside Schmergen Brawl. Yeah.

So I don't think, I think it's more of like a fan thing. So I don't think there's that many survivor players that are that deep in the weeds that would know how many confessionals they had. No, I'm just saying that maybe you're feeling like, OK, this felt tighter in that that maybe like they ended up ending up getting down to a little bit more of the gold as opposed to just seeing more of what's happening. I think that there was a lot of gold. I think this is the episode where my life is fine is born, which is absolutely a thing I just say in my life, let alone on podcasts.

This is the beginning of, is this the beginning you think of like Jeff Probst, the negotiator? Like is this like sort of like the part like sort of yeah okay let's start there okay because i did pull some clips from this episode and so uh that one of the things that happens here in episode two of survivor san juan del sur is uh that we see that john mish a lot of issues with the flint in this season people broke the fl on day zero. John Misch has lost the Flint. It's a major problem for the Hunapu tribe.

The Hunapu tribe goes to tribal council. We see Julie McGee win the reward at the Hero Arena. And Reed says, Jeff, we have an interesting proposal for you and tries to trade the flint not for the fishing gear that they just won but for a potentially half-eaten bag of beans a bag of farting beans bag of farting beans yeah a little bit jack in the beanstalk of like okay i'm gonna trade in my beans for some things actually i think they traded a cow for beans in that story i think that this is also by the way maybe like you just uh i think maybe it's just my crazy brain but i feel like you just opened my mind's eye to an incredible survivor like idol hunting twist, which would be, it would require that survivors supply their contestants with food again.

So like they give the survivors like a starting bag of beans. Someone finds like a beware advantage note and the beware advantages terms are you have to plant the beans and wait five days for them to grow into an immunity idol so you have to steal your tribe's food and plant it and have it turn into an immunity beanstalk now again i unless these are magic beans i don't think that the beanstalk unless like you're the immunity idol is just like little bean sprouts but i think uh i think in a bag of beans i think you can get away with like four or five beans to go plant them i think like you take the bag you have to bury the bag and like you have to like bury it at a specific spot and then jimmy

or whoever's like going around and doing the idol stuff these days like when they're at a challenge five days later unburies the bean bag and replaces it with uh an idol maybe even in the same bag and then you pull that out and now you've got your beanstalk idol hmm just okay yeah no bad ideas in brain story yeah and so reed yeah proposes to je, okay, a trade. Beans for Flint. Beans for Flint is the trade that's being offered. Jeff, not loving the trade. No.

First thing, I understand the situation. So the tribe with two firemen, Heath and Jeremy, you've lost them. It's gone, Jeff. I love that Jeff equates also that they have firemen on their tribe yeah and that they are unable to make fire now the firemen actually do the the opposite but let's not let that get in the way of you know an interesting observation I don't think necessarily that like uh being a fireman means that like you need to have 24 hour supervision of Flint. Like,

I don't think part of like the elaborate fireman kit is like you go into the like burning building with a Flint on your hip. Yeah. Okay. All right. You want to make a trade, but you want to keep the fishing gear and you want to trade the beans. Walk me through this from a negotiation standpoint.

You're the ones who need to make the deal. My life is fine. My life is fine is so good. My life is fine. Yeah. This is so was it like so. So I have I have now seen all of the new era. But this current season, 47, is the first one I'm watching weekly.

However, that being said, I am at least vaguely aware of some preseason stuff. And was it last season, 46 in the preseason where Jeff basically was like, I know I've been soft a little bit. Spicy Jeff. Yeah, but I'm going to bring the heat. I'm going to be spicy Jeff. San Juan del Sur era Jeff. This feels like spicy Jeff from the beginning. Yeah. Like my life is fine.

Like doesn't he seem very annoyed to be having to do this negotiation at all? Yeah. I feel that Jeff in these episodes does seem like a little edgier all throughout uh these couple episodes and that uh he does not like uh the offer for this trade he doesn't think it's amusing at all at all we're also going to see later on in this season uh not to uh preview too far ahead uh there's going to be a second trade where that the uh i believe the hunapu tribe eats all their rice and then has to trade their tarps uh for rice and ultimately that's that's an issue now the rice negotiation does become a pretty big part of the show going into

the 30s and ultimately into the 40s so it's a huge part of the 40s right like in the 40s like it's a it's an actual signpost it seems like yes um in the mid 30s uh we have now i believe that there are stories that this actually happened first on ghost island and it didn't make the show but angelina famously uh sits out of the challenge to earn rice for the tribe right correct uh but nowadays it's like literally like it's the same challenge the same timing every season of like y'all hungry enough to sit out of this challenge for beans uh here like the or for rice rather um yeah here here i wonder like in this era if we're trying to think of, like, ways in which San Juan del Sur and 47 are connected across space and time,

could you imagine if Jeff says yes to this deal, would Reed have tried to, like, pocket some of the beans? Like, secretly just, like, grab a fistful of beans and put it in his pockets and give it to Jeff? And would he have gotten away with it? He's a little more flexible than the average bear. Right. Do you think that Reed is leaving some of the beans in his pocket and not putting them

all in the bag to give to Jeff? Yeah. I think that like his like he he like he makes a really good like acrobatics check on that and is able to just like sort of like stealthily grab some of the beans and store the beans yeah the the dna of the jeff negotiating with the contestants though i do feel like that this is important here that i feel like um i try to remember earlier negotiations and of course in survivor the aust the Australian Outback, they traded in the Texas flag for more rice. And then also, I feel like that there was a little bit of negotiation in Survivor Philippines where Penner ends up like, OK, let's just like, you know, what do we end this challenge?

And let's you take the sandwiches. We'll take the rice. Like there's a little bit of that, but that's not quite with Jeff. Um, we also have in this very, in this same season and in survivor, uh,

worlds apart next where Jeff ends up letting the contestants, uh, where they have the touchy subjects challenge, which this is the last time we run touchy subjects that, uh, Jeff is like, you know what? Why don't you just tell me who should win the challenge?

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Jeff's open to like, uh, you know, blowing some things up. I think,

I think that Jeff is at like the beginning of his blow stuff up era and i and i wonder how much of this is like okay we were about to do redemption island and now we're not going to do redemption island anymore and like is he a little edgy at this point in time how much of it also is just because of like the sheer buffoonery of this cast uh like uh keith just like days earlier is already like uh yeah wes wesley lost the flint uh you know like my idiot kid lost the flint and now it's his tribe that's losing the flint and like how much more of this is jeff able to withstand and it's what day five before even at that point uh so i i think some of the the shenanigans from these people uh not seem to be Jeffrey's favorite.

Yeah, certainly possible. OK, so at Hero Arena, right before this negotiation for the rice, we see John Rocker and Julie McGee takes on John, her boyfriend. Yes. In a battle, a climactic battle, takes a little bit, Julie ends up winning the challenge and beats John Rocker. And John Rocker is asked for his reaction

to losing to his girlfriend. John, what's this like for you? To not only lose, because that's tough for anybody, but you're losing to your girlfriend. Now you're going to exile. Remove the friend part. I'm losing to a girl.

I just got beat by a girl. John Rocker is such a scumbag. What a scumbag. So I don't mean to like cross the streams too much. Having said that, this episode is the episode that you and Stephen Fishback come to New York City and bring the Know It Alls into town for the first time live. Yep. And I just rewatched it a few minutes before we hit record on the podcast. And holy crap, did you not get a good hate at John Rocker?

Like, I had forgotten, of course, you know, huge Mets fan. And congratulations, Rob. Yeah, go Mets. That you would have a lot of rage against John Rocker. But you really pulled no punchers in saying John Rocker is the worst person on the Internet. I mean, i feel pretty decent about that take 10 years ago or is like are you still hitting that hard like do you think 10 years greater you're hitting as hard as saying one of the survivor contestants is one of the

worst people no i i really feel like that even in i watched this whole podcast also that I think that we, uh, like the, we were for better or for worse, uh, in 2014, you know, uh, I think that now we talk about the show again for, for better or for worse, uh, in a way is like that every single person who's on the show is probably watching what we're doing and hearing what we say. And, you know, uh, could potentially, you know, have like some kind of, uh, right or wrong, righteous indignation about, uh, you know, everything. So even like, uh, like minor criticism, I think has to be couched in, of course, this is a great person and we don't know them. And then just in this circumstance and you know there's a lot whereas in 2014 we could shoot from the hip a little bit more yeah i want to go back to the era where we just said that some of these survivor contestants are the worst people

well for that josh you could podcast with us about big brother uh-huh well yeah uh that seems like a great idea yeah uh that seems like a great now john rocker had quite a resume coming into survivor and i do think that coming out of survivor i think that there was like a little bit of a thought of like did this experience did john rocker change any of his ways uh based off of this experience i think that you know some of the cast had had uh very positive interactions and i went down a little bit of a rabbit hole and i said like what's john rocker talking about on twitter now yeah and and i think that uh like very in a very quick scroll i uh got to a tweet where john Rocker said, I stand by everything I said 30 years ago. Oh, 30 years.

And so I stand by everything I said 10 years ago. Yeah. OK, great. I love that. Love that. Yeah. So he he he does not like losing to Julie. This is not the first thing that he'll lose.

This is a bad episode for john rocker uh john rocker doesn't do particularly well uh throughout this if you think this week's episode is bad josh yeah just wait wait wait one more uh but it was like kind of amazing to like go back and look at how historically bad he is and also to go back and look at how historically uh hated he was by you uh was a was a real treat to go yeah i thought i did not have a bad john rocker impression also on the uh know-it-alls from 10 years ago you gotta do it kenny powers is really all it's got to be i'm effing out you're effing i'm effing in you're effing out yeah um but just you out that line of uh forget the friend uh i lost i lost to a girl shut up john shut your mouth homie g

shut your mouth homie g yep uh yeah yeah not great but good for you for having a take that is, I think, enduring 10 years greater. One of the few that has aged well. OK. Yeah. So in this episode, we didn't really talk too much about John Rocker's troubled past in episode number one uh there was a little bit of that identifying him he's a famous baseball player but here uh numerous contestants are talking about how is that the same guy you hear dale talk about hey is that the guy that got run out of the league for saying a bunch of stuff uh that you saw jeremy who also says i know who that guy is. Jeremy knows. Jeremy's got John Rocker's number. Jeremy is just like immediately like, yeah, that's the dude who said all the racist and homophobic stuff. And I have to sleep in the same beach with him for the next night or two.

Yeah. They end up not showing a lot from their time on Exile Island together. They go to Exile Island. Jeremy finds the clue to the idol. I couldn't tell if he invited Rocker to take a look at the clue to the idol versus like, is he kind of like, did Rocker just sort of like shoulder his way into like looking at the clue to the idol with Jeremy? But Jeremy's like, well, maybe I need to like be on this

racist xenophobes good side so that he could protect my wife on the other beach. And like at first it's like, OK, you know, not an unreasonable idea. It's just you're entrusting your wife's fate in the hands of known idiot John Rocker. Yeah. So I think that Jeremy is hoping that there could be some sort of like quid pro quo that goes on where John Rocker will, and in John Rocker's credit, I think he does think that he is going to protect Val and him and Val just so sadly we're not on the same page,

but I do believe that his intentions were to honor the agreement that he made with Jeremy. Totally. A hundred percent. It just goes horribly. Goes horribly wrong. Really, really poorly. But I wonder, has Jeremy ever talked about like, what was that time like? What was that time on exile?

It's a good question. Jeremy's had so much like other like historic survivor stuff to talk about that like i'm sure like he just hasn't really gotten that part of the deep dive i would love to know what exile island night was like for jeremy and to be fair that from my recollection i feel that jeremy spoke positively about uh his time with uh john rocker and again john rocker that they did not go to uh jeremy was on the jury uh john rocker famously was on the pre-jury trip so i i think that uh maybe val uh might have had more time with john rocker uh in this experience yeah yes it seems like my memory

of this is that like the pre-jury crew from this season, I don't want to speak out of school, and of course, it's a decade later is where my memory is drawing from, but I seem to remember pictures of them all by hot springs. Yeah, I think they had a good time. I think this was a party season. I really do.

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All right. So, Josh, the immunity challenge here in this episode was Sumo at Sea. Now, this was a big set piece in the original Blood vs. Water. Aris and Vetus went after each after each other vidas fake that he was hurt he got up and like uh they talked about uh being the villain so we get it again here not as climactic sumo at sea here well i guess it depends on what you're here for. Like if you're here for like for like Gomez and Fester, like throwing knives at each other, brother, like you didn't we didn't get that.

They would be great on a blood versus water season. Adam's edition would be amazing. But what you do get, I think, in its place is the Missy Baylor showdown. Yes. And the Missy Baylor showdown in its own way, I think, is at least as great, if not as like violent, like as it's not as much of an act like, OK, Vetus versus Aris is an action movie. Missy versus Baylor is a drama. Yeah. Okay.

Well, let's set the scene. Maybe even a tragedy. Yes. Let's set the scene a little bit. Okay. So here comes Missy and Baylor. They're going to reset what sumo at sea is for all of the people who were won 10 years ago.

Just in case you can't visualize what this is in your mind, that they don't really do too many challenges like this but it basically is there's sort of like uh a platform in the ocean and you have a man survivor has done earlier versions of this in the mud and stuff like this but this is uh you have basically sort of like uh like kind of like a big pillow shield and then it's your job to push the other person off the platform. That's Sumo at sea. And so why don't we do that anymore?

I think, uh, that they last one, this may be the last Sumo at sea. I don't think last Sumo at sea. Why? I think the closest we get to this is sort of like a basketball in the water.

We, we really don't wrestle anymore. I think it might be an insurance issue. Uh, okay. Uh, was it like a copyright thing that like they can't do wrestling or something? I don't believe it's a copyright issue. I just think that like, uh, after we almost lose beast mode cowboy, I think that we walk back, uh, some of the physicality in the competitions where like the, i think the most we get is sort of like there's a life preserver in the water and you're sort of like wrestling for it right uh and i guess like i don't know i mean like i'm a big uh advocate of the blindfold

challenge is unnecessarily dangerous and probably shouldn't be run like that feels like a really dangerous one where people really really hurt themselves i know you feel very strongly about this as well um having said that i don't know why perhaps it's just raw bloodlust but i would love to see sumo at c-back and i think that the survivors should be allowed to attack each other more often well josh you say that you'd love to see it come back but we had blood drawn in this very challenge as missy and what i'm saying is like ah more yeah all right so uh missy and baylor goes into it and first of all jeff you know we know how much jeff is interested in these human relationships and he starts off by asking uh missy and baylor you know uh must be easier for Baylor, the daughter, to go into this battle than it would be for Missy, the mom.

But Missy says she's ready. Yeah. Yeah, she's ready. She's visualizing one of her exes. Yes, she's putting a different face on Baylor. Yes, she's putting a different face on Baylor. And Jeff is curious. And this must be music to Jeff's ears,

because we love, like, this is their story of talking about that Missy's been married three times. And Missy is visualizing the face of one of her exes on the body of Baylor. However, on the flip, there's two sides to that coin, my friend. And Baylor is imagining the face of one of Missy's exes as well. Now, do you think it was the same one?

I would like to think so. I would like to think so. Yeah. I would like to think so. I would like to think so. Yeah. Was that, does that like they're like,

uh, their street fighter theme song? Is that what's playing underneath the battle? I don't think anyone ever, uh, super cut that together. Probably not. Um, so they go in to battering Rams instantly.

And I'm not even sure what happened. Um, that Baylor it looks like it looks like Missy like there's like a little bit of like a like an over eager slip and slide that may happen there and like Missy's head bashes

is that I didn't rewind it I thought that maybe just like Baylor might have just bit down on her lip oh really oh well I think that you would have had a like if she had bought her in the face yeah Baylor might have just bit down on her lip. Oh, really? Oh, well, I think that you would have had like if she had bought her in the face. Yeah. I think you would have had a more

more of a issue. I feel like Missy's like Missy's like, oh, my God, look what I've done to my daughter. Like, I feel like that's the moment. Like, that's what that's how it reads to me is that and and Josh's to me, which by the way, we have to talk about the read. We got it. We got it. We got it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Incredible. That like, then like Missy's whole, like she can't get past what's, what's, what's happened. Yeah. Like I, I read it as like Missy, like having like sort of like that iconic uh like uh drama movie moment of oh my god what have i done yeah yeah she's just like covered in in baylor's blood uh and baylor but i like the idea that this is like was this like a premeditated like this could have been a really good strategy of like okay uh well i've been i've seen sumo at

sea i know my mom if i just bite my lip hard enough and produce some like this is like a real like wwe move right of like the razor like i feel like is this like gonna psych out her mom um i don't know if history bears out that baylor's got like that level of thinking but yeah I don't think so she cries yeah and then it seems like that Missy like very half-hearted they resume and just kind of jumps into the water

she just jumps in yeah ultimately we see that it's Hunapu that wins even with Missy not winning the point. We have some interesting battles that happen. Drew beats Alec. Yeah, so that's our brother battle,

but it's not particularly epic. Mm-hmm, yeah. Drew's most epic moment happens while he is on the dock watching the combat as Josh and Reed step into the gladiatorial arena. Yeah. So we have a battle of the boyfriends. Josh and Reed are going to step up. And so, you know, look, it was a time and we talk about this in the know-it-alls. I think one of the reasons why San Juan del Sur didn't necessarily catch on as maybe as quickly as the previous Blood vs. Water. I think it was maybe hard to follow.

Wait, who's related to who? Who's with who? Who's that? That person is. Oh, that's that person's relative. We didn't know these people. So we were sort of trying to learn on the fly. And so were the people that were in the game.

OK. to learn on the fly and so were the people that were in the game okay reed from hunapu taking on his boyfriend josh from coyopa let's go josh let's go josh it's me it is reed who is on our team yeah john mitch has to explain to Drew Christie No, no, no That's Reed that's been on our team for six days That to me is still so funny Drew Christie to me is still

just unbelievable Get him on Survivor 50 Was he on the ballot? Definitely not Definitely do not bring him back for certain he should not be on the ballot Don't not. Definitely do not bring him back for certain. He should not. Don't find his Twitter. Don't find his Twitter. I don't want to see

his whereabouts on certain dates. But God, was he just like so inadvertently funny. And like John Misch is like sort of like a secret like source of gold as well. Like whether it's his like panic about losing the Flint or just like the very casual.

It is Reed who is the one on our team. It's just like it's just way too funny. Well, there's a scene early in the episode, Josh, where Jeremy is talking about them. And they're like doing like squats with like pieces of wood and like working out and like natalie is rolling her eyes and jeremy is just talking about how like uh in a weight room yeah um he's talking about john and drew he's like they're they're not real people they're cartoon characters he got it nailed it on the first try uh jeremy knew i also love uh uh natalie who has you know more emotional content this episode of course seeing nadia's gone so like

you're like if we're tracking like natalie's winter story like you can see it starting here uh but i even love her being like uh like those deadlifts aren't even impressive bro uh and i don't remember if like 10 years ago at the time, Natalie, like when we were talking like evolution of strategy and talking about San Juan del Sur then, was Natalie on Instagram like showing off her like ridiculous workout routine? No, I think that came, you know, I don't follow it closely enough. I think that like her like real CrossFit era ended up coming later in life.

But like, was this like an origin story for her? Oh, did she watch John Misch and Drew? Did she see Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Drew over here? Like bench pressing and squatting. And she's like, these frick and these fools, these idiots. You fool. frick and these these fools these idiots uh and you fool did she decide like not only am i going to win this game but then i'm going to go home and beat them at their own game and become yeah dead lifting champion i don't know oh my god you fool yeah um yes um get into what about the battle of the johns do you have any commentary on the

battle of the battle of the johns uh john mish actually beats john rocker there that's a little surprising it's like red viper versus the mountain with a happy ending yeah well not like you know what i mean not like that happy yeah no i i got that it wasn't thinking that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, um, no heads explode at all of any kind. Sorry, Rob. Where's the spray bottle? I don't know what's going on. Too much time with Mike Bloom.

Yeah. So the climactic battle ends up being, uh, Kelly versus Jacqueline and Jacqueline actually beats Kelly, uh, in the first time out. We find out it's Kelly Wentworth's birthday. It is.

But she ends up on her birthday being the victor, propelling Hunapu to victory. Yeah. Great. You know who I had forgotten? Again, a lot of watching this has been like when they wake up and the flash sideways and remember their lives before. I had forgotten again, a lot of watching this has been like, um, has been like in like when, when like they wake up in the flash sideways and remember their lives before, like that has sort

of been like, I guess maybe San Juan del Sur is my constant. And so like I touched survivor San Juan del Sur and I watch it and I'm just like washed with like a flood of sense memory. So I had completely forgotten in my mind that Dale was like so emotive and like specifically so emotive and like like physical in his reactions to like Kelly competing in this challenge. Like there's so many times where Dale's just like, oh my God. Yeah. He's just like throwing his body all over the pot. He's high strung. Yeah. He's crazy. He beats Keith N over the pot. He's high strung. Yeah.

He's crazy. He beats Keith Nail also in the challenge. The old guy battle. Sorry. The golden survivor battle. Just got babed. Yeah. It was actually dude was what I got today.

But yeah, I mean, he's just like Farm Guy 69 does not want to see violence. He did not sign up for Survivor for this survivor for this no okay he's so distraught i've never seen someone so distraught in a challenge let's talk about the saga of val okay so last time out we know that we had uh val she found the clue to the idol uh i believe uh she came back at the last time and said that she had two idols. She tells us about what her situation is right now. Right now, I am in a tight situation because I don't have an idol. I don't have anything.

I am just lying. I don't have anything. I am just lying. I don't have anything. I am just lying. Man, going back to the know-it-alls, live from the basement of the Gotham

Comedy Cellar. Is that what it's called? Comedy Cellar? The Comedy Cellar, I believe, is something different. Gotham Comedy Club. Look at these guys. Look at these strapping lads here on the video version. What do we have here? Yeah.

Honestly, I was saying that I feel like this is the best coverage we have of any of the live shows. The Gotham Comedy Club. Yeah. You can see the sign here. Well, we can talk more about that uh at the end sure but all i want to say here to bring it in is uh man fishback really gets like a real hate into val's gameplay here well this was a different time you could be like and look and and steven is going to have a very special relationship with the Collins in about a year.

So it's a origin story for sure. But yeah, I mean, it was a time where he said that he thought that Val was maybe made the biggest blunder in Survivor history. A top five worst move was his take. A top five worst move was his take. My memory, I haven't gone back and read like the Fishback chapter that I wrote for the Survivor 31 preseason. But I remember Fishback being like, I don't know if Jeremy's going to like me that much because he definitely watched the coverage and I was pretty harsh to Val. So there was actually some like... Introspection. So there was actually some like introspection.

There's like some historical significance to how this particular live know-it-alls could have had some impact, at least on the Survivor Cambodia preseason when it comes to any severe gastrointestinal distress that Stephen was feeling before the game. Well, if there was any issue, Jeremy did not hold it against Stephen. I think they instantly got along in Cambodia and are friends still to this day. So I think that, you know, look, it was a time of hot takes and hyperbole. Has it really changed that much? I think for us, it has. that uh we maybe the hyperbole stays uh but the you know the takes are maybe not as scorching yeah do we need to be meaner as a

society i don't know if we need to be uh meaner i i think that it's not necessarily the meanness, but I do think that there is an issue with like people cannot handle any slight criticism. Any slight criticism is a personal attack. Go get them, sick them. OK, oh, they're talking they're talking bad about us and that the discourse is definitely more complicated. Yeah. So we don't need to be La Mina, but are we being too La Nisa? Yeah. I'm trying.

Nisaragua? Yeah. I don't know. Chase Nice? So Val said- Turn out to be nice. Turn know. Chase, nice. So Val said- Turn out to be nice. Turn out to be too nice. Yeah, turn out to be too nice, I think.

You know, Survivors now, you have it lucky. You have no idea what it used to be like. Yeah. And that being said also, that the discourse is also, while I feel like that the modern day players have more of a hard time, like, processing, you know, or like, it used to be you could criticize somebody and then they, like, wouldn't hold it against you so much, you know. And this is not just with Survivor. This is, like, in all facets of life. You are either 100% in the tank for somebody or um you know you are like

100 it's very hard to give like a nuanced opinion nuance of things nuance has been struggling yes nuance has been having a hard time but but as far as the modern day survivor players there are ways in which uh that things are like way more horrible and people are way more out of pocket on you know it's like one thing on like a podcast okay yeah yeah yeah your exposure is now right uh you know you don't get like in in your i don't know if the san juan del sur players like in their mentions were getting all sorts of like horrible uh thoughts retweeted and all sorts of stuff so it's it's it is a different time at least not to this level yeah okay especially like now like twitter is like is like a war zone now so like it's even like whatever safeguards existed back then and also that you know it is a literal double-edged

sword and a figurative double-edged sword in that uh the reach of the podcast is far greater now than what it was where in san juan del sur how many people from Survivor San Juan del Sur were ever listening to this episode of the podcast? Maybe, maybe three or four. Not many. Really? You don't think that people were listening to the podcast?

That's not your memory of it. I mean, at that particular thing, Jeremy's listening. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe a few of them.

Like was John Rocker listening no you know were the christy brothers listening were wes and keith listening rocker definitely wasn't listening and i know this is more of a next week thing because like i believe you guys had a fairly pleasant exit interview if i'm right sure sure i'm a professional yeah okay, all right. Val is in trouble. And this is a rather complicated vote that's going on. Okay. So John Rocker feels like, all right, Val's got two idols. Okay. So she's going to play her idol and we're going to split the votes on Val and Baylor.

And then Val will be fine. Yeah, that's it. That's the move. And so what goes wrong here? So I think this goes back to and we didn't talk about this at all of that. Reed and Baylor. Reed. Actually, I believe it is Josh who is the one.

That was unintentional. Josh and Baylor. Josh and Baylor. Okay. um read actually i believe it is josh who is the one so i was not intentional josh and baylor okay uh that's they i'm a little out of uh season with someone else sir it's great it's great okay so it was kind of ridiculous like we're like what are we talking about this thing something that happened 10 years ago uh tonight TV. 10 buffs greater. Yep. And so Josh and Baylor, they had sort of like this weird thing where, and I still like, Josh, I think is a smart guy who like knew the show pretty well, but I'm not sure why he just like voted for Baylor to sort of like hide his alliance with her. He could have just had a hidden alliance with Baylor and didn't have to just write her name down at the first tribal council yeah I I don't really understand still sort of the logic

um maybe I get some of the logic of like okay so this is what I'm going to do but like I guess then I'm kind of wondering like do you tell her in advance or is it too risky to tell her but why like why were the rest of the hours like dude why did you vote for a bailer we were voting for we were voting for nadia like uh that was like well what if she played an idol um what if what if val gave her the idol but anyway so um i think that we see that josh ends up seeing john rocker talking to val and his uh spidey senses inherited from uh reed end up tingling and uh i think that maybe him or baylor switch an extra vote to val and then ultimately it ends up being a 4-4 tie and then john rocker gets pissed and then votes

val out for not playing her idol and so like Val thought that like she and Rocker had kept this like tight enough that she's, she's operating under the assumption then that people don't know that she and Rocker like have like this connection that Rocker like filled her in on where the votes are going to go. Cause she's freelancing off of Rocker. She doesn't like, she's like taking Rockerers info and being like all right well i'm gonna make my own move within that and she just doesn't know that she's been clocked at all yeah so like i actually like i don't i think still that like the i have two idols is uh like a big overreach, obviously, in terms of like the lie that she tells.

With that being said, I do think like if that was ever going to like land with a group, this was the one. Coyoco was like a pretty good group to try that on. So I don't think like, I don't think it's that bad of a, I actually don't think it's that bad of a play that she's like, all right, well, me and Jacqueline know where to throw our votes.

I don't think that like she could have necessarily like accounted for Josh is going to like, you know, like deviate from Rocker's plan. I don't know. Yeah. I just don't think it's like I don't think Val's move 10 years later, like looking at it, like I don't think it's that egregious. I think the issue was that Rocker and Val really needed to have a conversation where Rocker needs to come back and say like, uh, Hey Val, me and your husband talked. He told me to keep an eye on you. And she's like, okay, all right. Well, all right. The good, I have to, I have to tell you, I don't have anything. Yeah.

Right. I am lying. Right. Like, oh, okay. That changes everything. This plan will not work okay and they could have i think adjusted it on the fly having said that uh an issue in all of this is that guy's john rocker you know and like val and jeremy like if Jeremy knows who John Rocker is, strong chance that Val knows who John Rocker is. Right. Yeah. Maybe they could have spotted him day zero on the way there. Certainly they saw each other at Ponderosa. That's a given. They're on day zero. Cameras are rolling.

They're allowed to talk to each other. That's a given. That dude's John Rocker. That's a given. So she knows who John Rocker is if Jeremy knows who John Rocker is uh and so like she might not have reason to think that like Jeremy and Rocker are gonna wanna work with each other so why would she want to be open with John Rocker if this is like almost any other person on this season I think maybe Val is going to be able to like have a bit more faith in the person, but it's John Rocker. Yeah. Noted racist and xenophobe. So Val is still hot with Baylor that Val feels like that Baylor really threw her and Jacqueline under the bus. They had a plan to vote with Nadia at the last tribal council and Baylor told them to vote for Dale.

Meanwhile, Baylor was voting with the guys. Straight up, he told me to vote Dale right on camp. Wow. Wow is right, because you did. Own it. Own it. That was so good. That was awesome.

That was awesome. That was awesome. I like I'm thrilled for all of the survivor success for Jeremy. I would love to see Val back on a season and not just as a loved one. I think she'd be like if they ever did like truly like did like some sort of like early boot season. I would be so happy to see Val back. And I know that then Val and Jeremy had, you know, they had they already had two girls and then they had the boys right when, you know, but I feel like we were robbed of Val and Jeremy. Amazing race. Yeah, that'd be great.

That'd be really good. Especially that they have like the legacy of Natalie and Nadia coaching them. Oh, man. At the live know-it-alls you have a very funny joke about the amazing race yeah it's very good uh so ultimately uh we see val voted out uh very very sad after we were very confused at the live know-it-alls that night certainly were we didn't know uh what was happening and uh-huh yeah we tried to piece it together uh this was we had never done this before of trying to watch an episode of survivor in a crowded room and then be able to process it

and talk about it with the people in the building and now from what i recall uh i i don't know what your recollection was this was not like in the modern day where we are watching the show on like a 200 foot screen no so i uh i was here for this uh i this was you get name checked yeah I get name checked. This is a night where I am meeting many of the people from this world for the very first time, including the great Mike and Angela Bloom, who I go out to dinner with before this. And then I believe Jessica Lise. I meet her for the first time here as well. Uh,

this was not the, was this the first time you and I had met in person? I have a recollection of you being, uh, at my house. Um, I'm not sure if that, I believe that was during Kageyan. Yeah. Um, I have, Oh sure. I would have met you at Kageyan cause I would have been in LA for that. Uh, for sure. So that would have made sense. Uh, at this i'm sorry you see this here i got it i'm gonna put it in look at this it's a little small but look at these enhance enhance all right let's see if i can enhance enhance whoa okay too enhanced too enhanced look at that look at these guys yeah look at these young these young whippersnapper can we enhance some more yeah let's see. Hold on.

I have one of those little track pads. You can go too far. You overshot it. This is about as big as I can get. Mike Bloom looks like Zack Wordenberger. Kind of. Maybe. Is he a time-traveling Zack Wordenberger? It would track.

It kind of looks like you're wearing the same shirt today that you wore. Look, something that you may not know about me. Like, you know, that I have shirts that are well older than my children. In one corner, you have the young lad. In the other corner, you have the young lad in the other corner you have the young plaid and that's who we're looking at right now yeah very very look at these babies and i was 29 the same age as the season yeah and then and then the next season i would turn 30 and uh would celebrate at the live no dolls and there would be a gif of me. Yes, I remember.

Yes. Maybe we'll talk about that next year. If we get there. Let me see. Do I have any photos of that night? Let me see if I can. It was an incredible night. And it is like,

I haven't been to a live RHAP event in a long time. And like, I don't know when the next one I'll go to is, but we'll see. But even the last one i'll go to is but we'll see uh but but the even the last one that i went to would have been like what five ish years ago now at this point and the size difference like the scale between how this thing started and how this thing's going uh really really wild how it started how it's going it was it was uh we were in a basement in a new york comedy club that was as you say on the pod at capacity how did you feel that night uh you if

you were ever nervous you don't show it at all on on tape um i was a little nervous i watched it back in terms of like uh how we were doing the show, Stephen and I had never done the show in person before. And so I think that there was like a little bit of like confusion of like what we were doing, uh, that this one, I think went off pretty well. It's actually the second one that we do, uh, which was during worlds apart, uh, which I feel was like the rougher live show, the episode that we have famously called the worst episode of Survivor history. Not a lot going on there. Yeah.

Yeah. But I was excited. Sometimes you get lucky, right? Like I think a very interesting exercise would be to like rank the episodes of the Survivor know-it-alls, like the live survivor kias uh like from like bet like you get malcolm uh on uh getting voted out on game changers and like iconic red wedding moment from that that has to be really high on the list i'm to understand that caleb's shot in

the dark was a live show yeah so this would be fun that was exciting i actually i so i don't have any pictures from the night i i had a six second video that was on my phone uh can we play this yeah yes let's do it hit it is there any sound is that is it you have to there's a button that you have to push i think somewhere to make the sound happen yeah that's what sam is controlling that okay well we'll see. He says one second, one second. He says one second. All right, we'll go back to it.

We'll go back. Also, anything else from the live show, the clip that you watched? You mentioned that Jeff Probst is on fire. Yes, I did. I flagged that also. You say it twice. I thought that Jeff had a great night in this episode.

Yeah. I just think it's interesting that Jeff had a great night in this episode. Yeah. I just think it's interesting that you called your shot like eight years early, that Jeff Probst would have a podcast called On Fire. Okay. Let's see. All right. Let's see.

This is good. Three balls. Okay. Three balls. Okay. That's a little shot of like what we were watching. We were like ostensibly in a bar with these like, I don't want to call them crappy TVs,

but I guess that's what they were. They were like comparatively like you've held these at like the AMC Lowe's in Lincoln Center. You know, like we upgrade our gear from here. We were watching them on two small tvs yeah two tiny tvs yeah so it was not ideal and so there was a lot of confusion in terms of what we're doing i think that the um stress for me that night was i think that steven fishback called me and said uh he couldn't make it i think he bazinged me oh really yeah and he said he wasn't gonna make it as a prank yeah

he was like sorry rob i can't make it make it yeah and it was just it was just a joke it wasn't like an hour panic right but then i think then he was trying to call me back to say that he wasn't joking. But I think there was bad cell phone reception in the basement. But so that was the most stress that I was. He was a little late. I think he was like cutting it close. I actually am now remembering this too. Because now I'm remembering like having like a conversation with you at this point. We're talking almost every day because we're recording the evolution of strategy what are we up to now we're recording vanuatu

probably this probably yeah at this point uh and so like i think we i think like i was like hey rubs are you just like now i feel like we're friends i can come up i could talk to you you can hang out before the show and i believe i remember you could find me like steven's not here yet i don't know what's gonna happen but he was he was joking he was just joking not a good joke not a good joke yeah fishback uh a a dry sharp wit you know yeah uh like uh very very very clever but pranks maybe not his forte maybe maybe not just a thought like hey i'm gonna bail on you with 45 minutes to go before one of the most important moments of your career i just kidding like that's not a very good joke yeah gotcha okay just in your face yeah uh don't say that josh oh right yeah yeah yeah okay um

all right then uh also in the crowd, Sophie Clark makes an appearance here. Really, Sophie, I think that her mic needed to be turned up. It's hard to hear. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there were some mic issues. Fishback's mic broken at the top. The speaker mic, the guest mic seemed to be a little low.

But you had like a good steady flow of people coming up. Many faces that I recognized and was so happy to go back and see. And like some good questions along the way. I think this is like a very good first live Know It Alls. Yeah, I think we did pretty good to start. And the episode in hindsight, maybe not at the time felt like particularly exciting, but the episode in hindsight, I think really-

It held up. It held up. And listen to this serenade from the great Randy Rice. The smartest guys around are about to break it down like they'd won the game a million times Well actually they didn't really win the game at all Survivor no idols, oooh Survivor no it all Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh Yeah, Okay, Survivor, no it don't. Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Yes. Turn out to be right. Yeah. Okay. And that is, I guess, the one common denominator between season 47, episode two, and season 29, episode two.

Some great moments with Rice. Yes. Some really good moments. Pocket that one away. Uh-huh. For sure. we can keep that one yeah and of course uh you know it's great to see those old like the really old school rhap shirt eric reichenbach design with like uh you and nicole like in star wars pose i i still have that shirt somewhere i used to wear it all the time. There's no piece of RHAP merch that I have used more than that shirt

other than the mug. The mug is like my coffee mug now. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So nice turnout here. Turnout to be nice for this episode. I got some decent live viewership.

I mean, that... Just being full transparency, I think that there is like a little bit of a question between Josh and myself about... Should we... The questions are like, what are we doing? What are we doing here? What is this?

What are we doing? This is definitely fun to get together for an hour a week and go back in time to what was happening 10 years ago. Like, what are you getting out of it? But maybe there's something else we should be doing with our time. Yeah. Like, what should we do?

What should we do? What should it be? Should we talk about John Rocker getting voted out next week? I mean, like, failing a better idea. I'm very here for it. I mean, here's what I'm getting out of this. idea i'm very here for it i mean here's what i'm getting out of this uh like just like uh like cosmic rays like of like like of supremely powerful beam of nostalgic positivity that's what i'm getting from going back and what ari ferrari in the chat i'm getting nostalgia sure

uh is what ari is saying and me too my guy like that's that's what i'm getting nostalgia. Sure. Is what Ari is saying. And me too, my guy. Like, that's what I'm getting. We also got this from Brian Killing It. No, I hit the wrong thing. This is it. Are y'all going to do any more T.E.O.S.? I've been listening to it for the first time, and it's so funny. This almost feels like T.E.O.S.

We're almost picking up where we left off. It kind of feels like that. It sort of feels like we short shrifted San Juan del Sur and Worlds Apart during TEO. So this almost feels like a fairer evaluation. I feel like this is like secretly like the true TEO ending. Yeah. The thing that's really fun about this for me

is that we did TEOs, okay? We talked about every single season of the show and this was like the new era of survivor when we did teos now this is uh yeah espn classic yeah yeah and in a lot of ways that sucks i don't have more to say like in a lot of ways that sucks because it means you're 10 years older. In so many ways though. Yeah. But this was like the bleeding edge of Survivor and now it's a throwback.

I love it. I'm very happy with it. I think the throwback is really, really fun. I think it could be interesting also to revisit potentially, especially while we still can, like where were we in the recording of the TOS process? I think we would have been at Palau.

And I'm traveling because I'm in New York for this. So this trip for me was that I came into New York. We did the live show on Wednesday night, October 1st. And then that weekend, Nicole and I were going to be throwing a first birthday party for a young Dominic. And so we had a rather big family party for Dominic. And that was what happened over the weekend and then i think we probably maybe sunday night your mom is at the live my mom was at the live show right well you guys move back to the east coast like and we're like okay mom bet yeah but not close enough yeah

not close enough all So, yeah. It was a real blood versus water affair, even at the live know-it-alls. Your mom is there. Your son is one at this point. Your other son is not yet born. Not yet born, right. At this point.

Anthony doesn't even exist yet. Ten years greater. I'm sure you couldn't have imagined it at the live know-it-alls, but ten years greater. Can you imagine yourself doing sumo at sea with Dominic? Oh, father-son sumo at sea? I mean, I think I... 10 years from now when he's on the show

and you're doing blood versus water with Dominic. I think I still got him for a minute, but I don't know. Would you rock him? Like, how would you go? Like, how hard would you go? Did they do any... Wes and Keith. But Wes and Keith didn't battle each other uh Wes battled um Jeremy actually beat Jeremy Wes is a big boy though yeah he is yeah yeah okay yeah all right

you've evaded the question but that's all right we will check the comments see what y'all have to say here as uh we continue on back to the present day survivor coming up uh at uh wednesday night 9 45 p.m eastern tevin from survivor 46 will be my guest that's fun i really like tevin uh i think he was a he was a terrific uh confessional giver. I would have loved to have seen more of Tevin. Yes, looking forward to hearing what he has to say about Survivor 47. Also, Sam Moore wants me to remind people, if you want to experience the modern day...

And Sam Juan Del Moore? Yeah. If you want to experience the modern day live show, we don't call it the Know It Alls anymore because there's no Steven. Yeah. One day, maybe. We don't call it the know-it-alls anymore because there's no Stephen. Yeah. One day maybe. One day. He might come out of retirement. But

we will be live October 16th back in New York City for a very exciting show. I believe it's going to be episode number five of Survivor 47. If you want to be there, there are still some tickets available at robhasawbsite.com slash nyc47.

We will also be holding a patron-only event on Tuesday night. A little bit of a meet and greet just for our patrons on Tuesday night. Patrons will get that info over on Patreon. Go to, what is it, patreon.com slash... How about this? Go to rhapplus.com.

Whoa, rhapplus.com. Become a patron at rhapplus.com. Support the arts. This is what we need. Right. All right, Josh, what's coming up for you? What do you think about that arts? A return to strategy. Support the arts. That's what we need. Right. All right, Josh, what's coming up for you? What do you think about that? Arts, a return to strategy.

Support the arts. That's what's happening over here. Support the arts of war. Support the arts of war. Oh, is that the sequel to TOS? The arts of war? The arse of war? What's going on for me?

Tons at weknowscriptedtv.com, where you can get the scripted side of our industry just came in for a thunderous conclusion for its third season. We've got podcast coverage of that. There's podcast coverage of Lord of the Rings, the Penguin Weekly TV takes from Taron and Grace on the tastemakers every Tuesday, every weekend. Antonio Mazzaro and I getting together to talk about TV as well. We did a battle of the streamers this past weekend to decide which of the streamers...

A sumo at sea? Yeah, it was sort of a sumo at sea for the streamers. Some head-to-head action there. So you can check that out. Additionally, I talked about this week's episode of Survivor 47 on the B&B with Mike and Liana. We got to play some games. It was

great. Super fun. I have not checked that out yet, but I've been meaning to, so I would love to hear what you have to say on the B&B. Always a fun time, and always a fun time when you and I get together. I agree. And this endorsement from Melissa, if you're not listening to Tastemakers, TV For Real, and

the Weekend program, you are missing out massively. Wow. I'm biased, but I agree. And if you want to fix this mistake for yourself, you can go to WeKnowScriptedTV.com, find your way to the subscriber page, hit subscribe to the podcast. Huge way to support the podcast is to subscribe to the feed. That's very helpful for us. So go to weknowscriptedtv.com. Hit that upvote on the subscribe button. All right.

Thank you so much for joining us here. And we will see you next time if... Are we going to talk John Rocker? I think that we need to hear from the listeners. How about this? For lack of better idea, we're going to watch San Juan del Sur three next week. And if between now and then someone has like a brilliant idea as well, we could talk it through on the podcast. How about this? You and I

will watch it and you and I will talk about it, but we'll talk about it on the phone, just you and I together, unless I hear from some people that they want more of this. Okay? Yeah. Oh, that's a great threat. Either way, Josh and I are going to talk at 3 p.m. next Tuesday. Yeah. The question is, will we have Kansas on or off?

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So turn out. All right. Thank you so much, everybody. take care of a good one bye