RHAP: We Know Survivor - Survivor San Juan Del Sur Finale | 10 Year Anniversary

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Rob Cesternino and Josh Wigler are back to dissect the finale of Survivor: San Juan del Sur, marking its 10-year anniversary.

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All Porter fares include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit FlyPorter.com and actually enjoy economy. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. It was 10 years ago on a night just like this when we watched the San Juan del Sur finale and it sounded just like this. If anybody has a hidden immunity idol and you want to play it,

now would be the time to do so. Yeah. I guess time to put the idol out of the bag. I was going to play this for myself tonight, but idols are more fun when you play them for somebody else. Jacqueline, did you vote for who I told you to vote for? I'm playing this for Jack. Okay.

Yes. Oh, she said the thing. Rob Cicero back here with Josh Wiggler. Josh, how are you? Oh my God. Pumping my fist so you know how to find me and so thrilled to be here at the San Juan del Sur finale, Rob. Ten years greater.

Yeah, what a night where we watched the finale. What a night. Three hours, one part finale. Can you believe it? I can barely believe it. I can barely believe it, Rob. We had a lot of action to take care of in this episode, and yet we had time for check-ins at the live reunion.

We had time for a reward challenge. We were able to do a lot in just a fairly limited amount of time. Yeah, they got a lot in and a lot to unpack as we watch Natalie Anderson become the 28th different person to win Survivor. Okay, a winner of

season 29. You could say they were two different Sandras, but you'd be wrong. Yes, of San Juan. How are you doing today, Josh? I'm doing quite well. Very, very, very bittersweet to get to the end of the road once more on San Juan del Sur. Rob, I have enjoyed going back and watching the 29th season of Survivor living 10 years in the past as the majority of my on air Survivor experience has been delightful, I have to say. But it's bitter because I imagine, Rob, why will I watch San Juan del Sur again for quite some time? This is really it. I don't think I'll check back in on it for another 10 years, probably. So we finished talking about it today. I put it back on the shelf and we say,

see you in a decade. Yeah. Hope you're still here. Well, we'll see. But, um, there's,

you know what? Every time I rewatch a season of survivor, I feel like that. And then, you know what? I keep getting older. They keep staying the same age. Uh,

we keep going back. It's true. We do keep going back. That's what they're there on the shelf for and san juan del sor very rewarding uh what how did you feel going back and watching the finale rob and what are your finale memories of the finale of survivor san juan yeah i've you know what i don't remember too much about the actual finale night i remember being at my house and being at my apartment um that for for that, but I really don't remember a lot from that particular night. Uh, and I'm looking forward to, uh, seeing what our San Juan del surrogates had to say

about the podcasting that night. I don't even, Josh, do you have any recollection of the after party that I don't even remember if I attended. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I'm certain that I attended and I'm positive that I have no memories of it. I'm sure I would have talked about it in some of the podcasts. So maybe. This era is like sort of for me, like what the forties feel like watching them, like a lot of like these reunions and like whatever happened afterwards,

just like kind of forms a soup, a little bit of a little bit of a soup. I can tell you, I'm sure I had a great time, a fantastic time at the Survivor finale. Yeah. I can't wait to hear what you had to say about it on the podcast. More to the point, I can't wait to hear what Steven had to say.

I wonder if Steven finally was feeling like San Juan del Sur showed up strategically at this point. Yes. All right, well, we'll get into Stephen's thoughts on all of it, but also fun to watch the live reunion show here. Now, I haven't rewatched a lot of old Survivor since that they have gotten rid of the live reunion show, but fun to also watch Jeff open the show

and bring it back and welcome in the live crowd. Jeff does a lot of vamping with the crowd also in the San Juan del Sur finale. He does a lot of vamping with the crowd. Uh, he makes a couple of friends. I think that he, um, participates in like, uh, like scenes with actual paid actors. I feel like the blue collar, white collar, no collar people. Yeah. We could talk about that. They spend a lot of time setting up season 30, which famously Jeff was extremely high on coming out of Survivor. The next evolution of Survivor.

It's the 30th season, but just the 30th season. It's just the 30th season. We could set that up more here tonight. But can you believe it? We have gone through the entire San Juan del Sur now. believe it we have gone through the entire san juan del sur now uh i i can believe it uh because it it was just uh it was just an extraordinary thing to re-experience and to look at all of the different ways that uh so much has changed since when this season first dropped some funny ways in which it intersected with 47 as it's currently airing and really just a delight and some of it just really popped so well for me it was so much fun getting to see keith nail again

it was so fun gaining new appreciation for nugget champion west nail it was so delightful uh feeling vindicated in my long-held but not publicly disclosed belief that missy pain should be brought back for a second chance at survivor uh and i will cherish all these memories just as fondly as i cherished the first time watching this show all right well let's talk through uh this big finale and josh uh of course you know, Jeff sets it up in the opener. I do feel like that the vibes between the 2014 Jeff and the 2024 Jeff, I feel like upon further examination, do feel like drastically different. And I'd say I'm enjoying the 2024 Jeff more than the 2014 Jeff. I'm enjoying the 2024 Jeff more than the 2014 Jeff.

I think that that's probably right. I think so. A thought that I had while watching the reunion was that Probst's energy at the live reunion versus Probst's energy in Nicaragua filming San Juan del Sur feels so much like the energy he is giving out in Fiji through all the seasons now. Like the way that like we've been talking about, like he's playing for the people in the back, like projection. He's being a little more animated. I feel like that's like live reunion, Jeff, to some extent. It's just that he never really like completely unhinged himself in that same way. But he's treating Survivor that he's making now like he's treating it like it's a live audience and he's playing to them so i think there's a little

bit of a thread there i just feel like he seems very tight throughout all of this yes yes yeah i don't know for whatever reason he's just like uh he does seem looser in the uh 2024 of it all but um you know i think long hair don't care long hair don't care. Long hair don't care. You know? Alright. So, Jeff welcomes everybody in, and the finale starts with, you know, if I'm going to be honest, we open with a

final five... Well, actually, a big fight, actually. We get some fireworks going. Huge fight. Yeah, it gets real personal, I believe, between Missy and Jacqueline. And Natalie says it's just a game. And Jacqueline's like, no, this time it's personal. She gets really mad because she doesn't like people

saying mean things about John. She does not care for that. I feel like she, did you hear her take like a few shots at Missy? I felt like there was a couple shots at Missy. I just feel like, I don't know if I misheard, but it's something about, I think she raised the specter of the ex-husbands.

You know, it's such low-hanging fruit to go after Missy anytime she does anything. Like, oh, is this why you didn't work out with the guys? Come on, be better. We can't refine the critique. You just always have to go for just like, boop, the obvious bruise that you keep pushing. Yeah.

Leave it alone. But it's a blowout, Rob. It's a big blowout. She even yells at Natalie. Yeah, Jack's pissed. She's mad. She's mad. Yeah, she had a really bad reaction to that keith is nowhere to be found where is keith in these moments i don't know i think he goes and runs

for it i mean he talks about when he gets eliminated he's like he's like well what do you expect three women look i can't even deal with one woman at home that's right yeah yeah all right but then we uh really get a lot of keith because we are going to have our challenge and they did this a lot in the late 20s early 30s of a reward challenge where you're playing for an advantage in the next challenge and really you could miss me with all of this between the challenge to get ready for the challenge. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I think when you're talking about a three-hour episode and we're not trying to do three hours ourselves,

we can make some cuts along the way. I don't think it added much other than like, does Keith win this one? If he doesn't get to, he gets to practice the final five challenge. That's the, that's the reward. He wins at the reward challenge,

but he won this challenge. Like we could have just, he could just win this challenge. He could just win this one. That's it. It was the same difference. Keith nail one, the reward challenge to get ready to practice for the ultimate actual challenge.

You didn't need it. Yes, correct. You know, Survivor is doing like a lot less with like the actual amount of challenges that you're getting in like a finale episode, I think. Unless there are elimination challenges. Yeah. And, like, still having a ton of... Obviously, it's the 90-minute-per-episode thing certainly helps with the way that they can tell a story, but I think another thing that they've done well is, like, it's just, like, it doesn't always have to be, like, a challenge challenge.

Like, we could, like, break it up with a couple of other things, because this feels like... It does feel totally uninspired, right? Like, I think it just like feels very uninspired and just like, we need to have a segment here and like not trusting that the show would be interesting enough on its own.

So what's the issue here that, uh, Julie quit and that threw off the numbers. Do you feel like, I don't know, maybe possibly in Kageyan, I think they ended up just having a final two in this spot. I think here they end up deciding to, okay, we're going to keep it a final three, but we have all

the challenges built already. Like someone quits Rob. I feel like the reward should be like, it's 38 days, you know, like you guys final, final day freebie. You know, I think that'd be great. Josh, the actual final five challenge was like, kind of convoluted i don't know if we ever get that challenge again where keith nail because he had a day to practice was the only person that was able to actually complete like this right rube goldberg type machine it was sort of like the start of some ocean but then yes you're carrying you're trying to balance the the billiard ball on like a paddle. Those like long mirrors that the dentist uses to like see what's going on back there. He basically has two of those and he's putting a ping pong ball between them and you have to like try and catch it that way. Nobody else even completed one and Keith Nail won the whole time.

And you know what? He didn't need to practice to be the one who was eventually going to crack this. Keith Nail was not a strategic genius by any stretch of the imagination, but he had this sort of magic touch. He was good with balls. He was. He says that.

He had this magic touch. He had this magic touch out there. I don't know. He didn't need to win that reward in order to have won the immunity challenge, but that's how it ends up going all right so jeff is doing a lot of crowd work during the san juan del sur finale okay so um they uh keith ends up he wins the advantage challenge uh jacklyn goes to exile a tough day forqueline i think between john jenning voted out and then going to xl island and so jeff does says uh shows us okay how much food do the contestants really eat out yeah okay so if we still had the live reunion because i know that this is a really big debate that there's a lot of people out there who say like, oh, I don't think we should be doing the reunion

right after the final tribal. They're too raw. We're missing something. Like we're losing context or whatever. And then they say that let's go back to the way the reunions were. But if we go back to the way reunions were, Rob, we're going to have to check in

with Olivia Feldman every time. You know, like we're going to have to speak to the Olivia Feldmans of the world. Before we get to Olivia Feldman, the little girl that Jeff talks to, he's like, so he's like showing like, what do the survivors eat in a day? So like these will be the interstitials that you'll get in your finale now. If you go back to this era, wouldn't you rather just like straight through Survivor? Well, I think that we're in this era where I think that Kageyan, was it Kageyan or was it this?

The first time that Jeff starts and is bringing people in. It might be this one. I don't remember if Jeff is breaking the, is like popping in during the Survivor Kageyan finale. I don't recall, but he certainly does this all the way through the end of the live reunion show is rain okay so but but it wasn't there the whole time it may it may be it might even be as early as blood versus water but it's around this time that he's doing it so that we cut back and

forth and then eventually he's going to start bringing people up like when they like do an interview with somebody when they get voted out like hey audience how about we got this person here it becomes a real to-do yeah so uh here jeff is showing us so what did the survivors really eat so he has got like this little bowl of rice he's like look at this bowl of rice this only this is 100 calories now just for context a hunch let's compare 100 calories versus the average american's diet what do you think about the spread versus the average American's diet. What do you think about the spread of the average American's diet?

What was on there? So we had some eggs and toast and bacon. Pretty good breakfast. I thought that was interesting. He pulled out English brekkie and put it on the table. It was like, oh, we're just missing the blood sausage and tomato. It's basically fully there.

We're almost all the way. For lunch, you have a burger, Jeff says, and the fries, and a soda. That's average lunch. What's the average dinner? Spaghetti.

It looks like some breadsticks also. What? No dessert of Tierra Misu? No Tierra Misu. No Tierra Misu on an average day. He's talking about averages. On an average day, that sounds close enough to what I do. 2,500 calories, according to Jeff.

That's 2,500 calories? All of that? That seems pretty good for... I feel like that sounds like a really good deal. That seems like a good deal. Like a really good deal. Like that's a 2,500 day?

Like, whoa, you ate well. Yeah. Good work. All right. So Jeff goes out to a little girl. She appears to be one of Jacqueline's guests.

We're always going to check in with some kids during this era. What's making you think that it's one of Jacqueline's guests? She had on the back of the seat, a seat reserved for Jacqueline Schultz. Okay, that would strongly suggest that she's one of Jacqueline's guests. It seems like they're with the family, because I think that right behind,

there's like a West Nail lookalike. I'm like, why is West Nail in the the audience for the abandoned west nail twin uh routine they were gonna do yeah so there must be another nail male that's out there so yeah either that or they kick somebody out of the jacklyn family seat and brought this little girl in but i think she's what we're gonna do when we do uh the West Nail nugget eating competition on Long Island next summer? Bring in all the nails? If we can't get West, then we do it sort of like the Timothee Chalamet thing and just get as many West Nail males as humanly possible. Sure.

West Nail lookalike contest? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Let me work on this. Yeah. Why not? Let me work on this. Yeah. Okay.

So tell me about Josh. Jeff talks to a young woman, Olivia Feldman, probably about 10 or 11. So she would be of age to play Survivor at this point. And he's like, basically,

hey, so do you think you could live on this diet? You think you could do Survivor? She's like, no, not at my age. It's like, oh,

Olivia Feldman. Always quick with the quip. Yeah. And she said, but when I get. It's like, oh, Olivia Feldman. Always quick with the quip. And she said, but when I get older, I'm going to be on this show. And she's been eligible for three years now. Yeah, we haven't seen her. I mean, one of these days,

we will finally get like, well, I was the kid in the reunion that voted for that Ben was going to win the game. It is such a good story. I'm shocked that they haven't done that. That feels like such... That's the good kind of low-hanging fruit, I think. That's right there. Put that person on a season.

Get Austin Russell back. Let's do the full thing. Blood versus water, they'd be a pair. All right. So we go back to the Action out in Nicaragua Jacqueline Is having a little bit of

A, you know Sad time on XL Island She's in her feelings You know, she's She's facing it down, right? You know, conventional Wisdom makes it look like Jacqueline's toast. She's toast.

Y'all toast. Jacqueline. Yeah. That's my Jacqueline. She's not doing great. But Natalie maybe has a couple tricks up her sleeve. Okay. All right. We then watch Keith Nail.

He goes to go practice. He talks about the flash over. We get a lot of fire department terminology in San Juan del Sur between Jeremy explaining surround and drown. Josh, we get Keith explaining to us in the fire department, you know, in the fire department, we

have what they call flash over. Mm-hmm. Wasn't that a show? Flash over. Wasn't that a show? Flash over? Wasn't that one of the lost clones on ABC? This could have been. I think. Yeah.

Flash forward. Flash forward. Sorry. Flash over. What is a flash over exactly? Yeah. It sounds like the whole place is about to go. Okay.

So is he, he's describing himself as the flashover? I think he's saying. Or the game. Yeah. I think what he's saying is that, okay, we're in flashover territory. This whole thing's about to burn down. We got to get out of here. And so I think he's like, it's do or die. I think he's what he's saying.

What a great way to describe the final stretch of survivor. I feel like this whole thing is about to go down. Get out of here with the money. Yeah. And so we watch Keith practice. Yes. We're talking about practice now. Yep.

Keith Nail. Are we really doing this? Keith Nail is going to practice and. He practices with using the dental mirrors with the ball and he does it. And? Keith Nail's going to practice, and... He practices using the dental mirrors with the ball, and he does it, and he says, I'm going to do it, and he tells me to stop. And then they go to the actual challenge, and he does it. And he wins. And he does it. And it's not even close.

It's not close. It's so boring. It really is rather boring. Yeah. This is a great sequence in 2X. Okay, so Keith has won the Final five immunity challenge. And then we come back and then we get a little bit of backstory about the challenge that we saw.

Was it in last week's episode? It was the challenge from last week. So we go back to the reunion and Jeff is now with boy genius, Austin Russell, who has uh who who designed uh the challenge uh that was the reward challenge from i believe last week's episode uh and he's there he's part of make a wish uh it was his his wish to go out there and talk to john kierhofer and you see like photos of kierhofer and the kierhofer trailer and're like, well, your challenge was so good.

We put it on the show. As you observed last week, of course, this is the challenge that breaks Missy's ankle. Yes, there is that. And that goes completely unmentioned entirely. Austin Russell was. Did I miss something with Austin Russell russell recently rob is my question for you um is this is this ringing any bells because i was away from the real time with survivor 45 but today i came across an article uh north texas make a wish survivor creates Texas Make-A-Wish Survivor creates challenge for the reality show and it's a 10 years

later interview with Austin Russell. He's 22 years old and somehow, someway, this article insinuates that Austin Russell had something to do

with Survivor 45? So I'm looking at the same article. Russell had something to do with survivor 45. So not that I'm looking at the same article. I don't know. This could be some sort of like AI mistake. Is this real? Yeah. This feels like,

because I don't really know real life. I don't know. I can't speak to this. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's,

uh, here's what I figured, Rob, I figured like you and like Mike bloom uh and like dalton like you all would have had been really asleep at the switch to miss this uh if like something fairly significant had happened with austin russell and survivor 45 yeah so it sounds like did this happen? Is this real? Was it like Yeah.

Did he just go out there for like a set visit? Like what's going on? Yeah. They say that he's part of it. They say that he's part of it, but I'm not really sure if they bring him back. Was he an alternate? I can't speak to it.

I don't know. But it's a great story that he ends up creating this challenge, even though Missy breaks her ankle. She breaks her ankle on it. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know. I wonder if they just, like, talked about it again.

Okay. Actually, no. Okay. Here we go. We got it? I got it. Okay. So this is from the Survivor Instagram account.

They did the whole reset, okay? All right, and then smash cut. They go 14 seasons later. Oh, wow. Austin returns, okay? Austin returns. Let's see what he's doing. Whoa.

All right, it is the official rehearsal. Survivor 43 for the challenge that our dream teamer, Austin Russell, created. I like my design because it's difficult

in different ways. This is hard because you're trying to. He's in the dream team now. Austin Russell is a dream teamer. Yeah.

This is the coolest shit ever very agile very small try to move through very small areas this is hard because you want to go very fast we're tied together the seesaw is by far the most dangerous thing on this hard for just about everything you're good coco head over the gate a balance challenge it's one of a kind. The very first design I made in stop motion, it was just the hurdles, the bucket with water, and then going over the seesaw to fill up. Yeah, look at this. Okay.

Austin's like on screen. This is a happy story. He's in Fiji. He's got like, he looks, the spitting image, the platonic ideal of a survivor dream teamer. He's got like a hat on, a little backpack. He was doing a little running. This is as good as we're going to get, I think, of like one of these kids

that they bring out in the reunion show and being on the show. God, we got a kid on the dream team. That's incredible. That's an incredible survivor story that I'm surprised has not gotten more traction. That's phenomenal. You did get a lot of likes on Instagram, but I don't know.

We forgot. It was 110 weeks ago. Hopefully, it gets another bump right now. Oh, let me like it. Yeah, hit it with a like. I voted a like. Hit that. Put that in the show notes.

Everyone go and like it. This is like, remember when we told everybody if that person's survivor Twitter handle was still available, that they should tweet us? It's in the evolution of strategy. It's like that. that person's survivor Twitter handle was still available, that they should tweet us. It's in the evolution of strategy. It's like that.

Everyone should go and like this Austin Russell Dream Teamer video. Oh, yeah. 12,000 people have liked it, including Brandon Donovan and Owen Knight. We still have so many more people liking that Instagram. That's a great story. Dream Teamer, I think, is maybe the best gig in town. I think Dream Teamer is like, you get all of the adventure. Like you get a lot of the adventure of going out there and playing survivor, but you can shower at some point, you know, at some point that's pretty decent. That's pretty decent. That's great. Cool story. Love that.

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like, almost like shades of what's going to happen with Carolyn some 15 seasons later of Keith Nails trying to get through a confessional. And they leave a lot of this in the show. We don't hear the producer, but Keith is trying to get his confessional out and like needs to like start

and stop a couple of times. What does he say? He's like, uh, he's like, he's a little bit like, I wish I would've pulled the clip for this. He's like,

uh, well being, being out here is like, uh, what was I saying about that? Oh yeah. Day 38. This is tough.

All right. Let me start again. Like being out here. What is it that big D says about Keith Dale? What you see is what you get. Yeah. You know, that's why we love him.

That's why I love him. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. He just kept squeaking by squeaking why I love him. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. He just kept squeaking by squeaking by squeaking by. Well, all right. Keith is safe. It's gotta be Jacqueline. So sorry, Jacqueline, Jacqueline and Natalie are going to have a little chat. Yeah. And, uh, maybe it's not as done for Jacqueline as as everybody else thinks.

Mm hmm. Yep. Natalie says that Baylor and Missy, their blood, they're never going to vote for each other. Right. So I guess my question all these years later is, was this necessary? It's awesome what happens here, but is it necessary? it's awesome what happens here but is it necessary like is it so important rob to risk you know such a ruckus internally with missy if she survives this vote which she's the one who's going to survive and if they were wise enough to vote out natalie at the next vote natalie doesn't get to the end but like is her concern that she's going to sit at the end with missy and baylor so serious that she should take that risk ultimately we just said last week missy and baylor can't beat anybody at this point in any combo yeah i think this is a pretty good resume uh move this is like a very

cool thing to do and i think like I like it because it's awesome. Do I think it's like the smartest move on the board in hindsight? I don't know. But it's so cool. I think it's a good question of okay did Natalie have to do this move? No. But maybe she

read the script and was like oh Jacqueline's going to win the final four immunity challenge. right better make this move because ultimately you're right it's not a move that she has to do I think she could kind of coast to the final three of like okay Baylor and Missy I'm gonna go to I'm gonna go to the

final four with Baylor and Missy and Keith as long as um you know uh you know we can um I'll actually go Jacqueline will be gone Jacqueline would be gone. Jacqueline would be gone. One thing about it that I like is she's keeping Jacqueline around to compete with Keith.

The two of us versus Keith. One of us has to win in order to get out Keith. I guess then my question is why not blindside Missy who literally can't compete in the challenge so now that you've got Baylor on your side and it's a three to one shot against Keith. Hmm.

Well, not sure. Maybe, maybe some, maybe we get, we touch on this in some of the post game interviews. Maybe. I don't,

I don't think I was thinking about it back then. I think what I was thinking back then was like, this is the coolest thing. It was cool. It's so cool. So like, it's not a complaint. It's just a question a decade

later yeah and i don't know if we have had too many other times where people are you know playing idols uh like certainly you know you had the parvati idol play uh tony and lj try to play idols on each other in survivor kagian which has they had seen before they played this game. But this was a pretty big move. Yeah, this is a hot move. This is a really hot move where it's just like, you see, I'm putting on a show for you all, you guys. Like, everybody on the jury, you're so bored. You want to do like,

this is just going to end up being just like a stampede to the end. Let me give you a show. So like, there's something to be said for that, for sure. You know, I don't know. But like, there's something to be said for that, for sure. You know, I don't, I don't know, but again, I would call it necessary.

But if like, you're just doing everything in your, you know, mental capacity to secure the winning votes, this is a fun thing to do for the audience on the jury. And Baylor, Christie seemed riveted. Yeah.

Baylor asks Natalie earlier in the day, play the idol on my mom do you think that's what gave her the idea I don't think so do you think Baylor willed it into I don't think she accepted it but um huge move and ultimately and Missy thinks she's going home but it's Baylor but Baylor yeah she gives the credit. She says, well, I can't even be mad at it. This is a big move.

Baylor has no issue with it. I think Baylor gets out of there. And Baylor's attitude for the rest of it is really, really good until Reed makes her cry. But like short of that, I think like she gets voted out and she's just like, you know, sunshine and rainbows on the jury. Mm hmm. OK, so we come back. Jeff just like, you know, sunshine and rainbows on the jury. Mm hmm. Okay. So we come back. Jeff's like, wow.

All right. Okay. Uh, here's a group of people. Here's a group of people that love watching survivor. Let's, let's talk to them. Uh huh. Mm hmm. Yeah.

He has more people that he'd like to speak with. Okay. Um, he's got a little bit, he's got just a little more time yeah okay and so uh we've got all all these folks josh and jeff talks to them like hey jeff's really trying to foster like this idea of people like uh you know it's an event watch survivor with your friends and so uh, uh, this group of people who watch survivor. Okay. And what does he learn? People,

uh, watch. Jeff is actually a little bit sort of like, um, you know, mocking some of the people. Uh, I believe we have our,

uh, our friend, uh, Donna is in this group. Uh, Jeff. And, and she says like,

uh, at once a year, me and my husband, we watch every season. He's says, like, once a year, me and my husband, we watch every season. He's like, okay, get a life. He's a little bit... I think this is pre-streaming. You know what? I don't think Jeff likes his job very much at this moment.

Don't you feel like that? I feel like Jeff doesn't love his job very much at this moment. Right? Like, don't you feel like that? I feel like Jeff doesn't love his job very much in this moment of his life. In this season of his life, in December 2014. He doesn't seem as into it as he is now. I don't know. Yeah, like, right now, I think he's like... Maybe he just seems so into it now. He's like, you know, he's like the Santa Claus of reality TV, right? He's like, I bring you gold twice's like, you know, he's like, uh, he's like the Santa Claus of reality TV,

right? He's like, uh, like I bring you gold twice a year. You know, he, he, I think he's leaned in hard on the utility that his specifically weird thing provides to the world. Yeah. I think at this moment, 10 years ago, I don't, I don't think Jeff was appreciating that. One of the guys also talks about how he's like, Jeff, I taped the show every single Thursday and one time in college that I had

a date with a girl on a Thursday and I had to tell her that I cancel. And Jeff also kind of is like, okay, what a loser. No, that guy, I think he liked. That guy, doesn't he say to that guy like, now that's the guy to Survivor fan we're talking

about or something like that. Like, uh if you tape it every week just tape it yeah yeah you could just you could have just taped it and gone on the date you know but you'll never get that live night ever again you know uh those live survivor nights are gold i I guess not. Okay. Yeah. All right. So we come back for immunity challenge. And Missy and Natalie quickly just hash it out. Missy also seems like she's mostly okay. She cries about it, but she's not mad at Natalie. It's just like, it's like, you'll see her in a day.

You know, like you're fine. It's my kid. It's my kid. Okay. Big immunity challenge. And this one is a real barn burner. It's a tough immunity challenge. Yes.

Jacqueline takes a pretty bad spill also in this challenge. She drops. Yeah. She literally just falls like a 20-foot distance, it seems like. It seems like it's a really big drop and probes like, Oh shit. Yeah. And he goes down to check it on Jack. She's like, I'm good. Just a flesh wound. I'm okay. She's got the wooden axe down on me. I'm good. Yeah. I mean,

can you imagine then if Jacqueline was like on, like we would have had a final four with two of the four people can't even walk into tribal council. Oh, my God. I mean, come on. That would be awful. Absolutely awful. But somehow in some sick way, maybe kind of funny, too.

Yeah. And so kind of a I don't know where this challenge I have to say. Yeah, it was pretty epic. This is like also like a trademark of the of the 20s. I feel like sort of like they have like the big like set piece like final four challenge uh and so ultimately jacklyn ends up winning here and has uh you know a lot of leverage uh in the decision making yeah of what goes on josh uh just as a thought exercise okay this was not a thing that we did what back when we didn't know about yet

about the final four fire making coming to this situation. Okay. All right. Final four. Jacqueline has won the necklace. What happens in fire making a little bit of a precursor to when, uh, Natalie Anderson will win the final four,

uh, challenge in survivor winners at war and have to decide what to do what would jacklyn do here if jacklyn is uh hmm i mean i think jacklyn if she is looking out for her best interests brings missy with her to the end like uh like she's gonna have a hard enough road against keith a hard enough road against natalie uh but she's gonna to have a hard enough road against Keith, a hard enough road against Natalie, but she's going to have no trouble at all against Missy. And it's fair to just let the two big dogs fight it out. Yeah.

Ironically, she ends up kind of in the same situation that Natalie would find herself in, in winners at war, where I think she probably was like, Hey, I won the necklace. I'm going to the final three. I'm taking Missy.

She's, uh, you know, not really a big threat. And then Natalie and Keith, you duke it out. And then the winner of that will win the game. Interesting.

Does it end up really impacting things in Winners at War that she didn't go into fire? Did she have a real shot? I don't know if she had a real shot. Boston Rob was like, hey, you did a pretty good job, but you didn't do the one thing

you were supposed to do. He says he would have done it. If it's Sarah Lucina and Natalie and Michelle, does Nat, if she knocked out Tony, get a little bit more... There were some never-edgers that were on the jury.

I think it's closer. Yeah. I think that Natalie herself kind of beats herself up over that. Oh, why didn't I make the fire against Tony? No, she shouldn't. She has such a great survivor

arc. Her survivor arc is amazing. I didn't beat her up over it. I'm just telling you that she was sad about it. No, I know. I'm just saying if someone's listening to this who knows Natalie, if she's really beating herself up, just tell her, hey, don't. You did great. I mean, at least in the months following that of like, oh, that could have been $2 million.

It would have been nice. Would have been nice. Okay. All right. So there's some pitching back at camp, but nobody's really making a very hard sell about this. There's a very quick scene where Missy and Jacqueline talk about it in the shelter because Missy's like,

I'm not here to vote out my friend, my daughter's friend, Natalie. But when Jacqueline's like, I'm listening, I'm listening. She does like a, I heard that she wanted to vote out Natalie. My head was like, go on. Don't forget

she voted out my kid. Don't forget that she's driving too, so she has the ability to swerve the car back around to what Jacqueline has to say. And Missy probably does a decent job here. She's like, look,

you got to trust your gut. But what? W.W. J.D. What would John do? Mm hmm. John would tell me to vote her out. Mm hmm.

She says. Yeah. But it's kind of like for Missy, you're like damned if you do damned if you don't. Because, you know, Keith is going to win the game if he gets to the final three this feels like this footage uh like probably like this is all of the footage that has them like

seriously considering voting natalie out like it feels like there's like no other moment beyond what we see in this like quick 45 second scene that probably immediately on the other side of this they're like, who are we kidding? We're voting out Keith. There's really no drama in this vote, actually. Yeah, not a lot of time. Not a ton of other drama. We're going to go.

When we go to tribal council, Natalie is like, maybe they should vote me out. It's possible because I think that I could for sure win this game tomorrow. Absolutely. So she's like talking a big game here for. It's possible. Cause like, I think that I, I could for sure win this game tomorrow. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, so she's like talking a big game here for whatever it's worth. Like from this moment forward, like from the time that she idols out Baylor, Natalie can't help.

Maybe even from the time that she gets John out of the game, it's just like, she's just like taking free throws. Just like nothing but net every time. Like that's how she's like trying to play this. So she's like showing off at this point to a degree. Even poor Keith ends up voting for Missy. Like it's not even like a dramatic vote reveal because the second you see that Missy vote come up,

like, okay, so Keith got duped, you know? So I don't know. It's fine. You know, we're on our way to the end. Yeah. Okay. So we, uh, see Keith get voted out and then Jeff's like, uh, shows us some footage of like, all right, I got to show you this. This is Keith Nail right after he gets voted out. And then, uh, like Jeff is like interviewing Keith Nail. It's like, I don't feel like we almost never see any kind of footage like this. I don't know if they film

it a lot or for whatever reason they filmed it with Keith. They're like, wow, Keith, look at you. 38 days. How does it feel? It's like, wow. If you would have told my friends that I was eating

spa food or I went to the moon, my friends would have said or I went to the moon. My friend would have said Keith just went to the moon. Keith went to the moon. He could not get over the spa food still. Yeah, the spa food was still the thing. From like a week ago.

Yeah. I think he was like very scared of how that was going to go over back at the house, you know? Yeah, not when he goes back to the house. Yeah, he's chiefly concerned with that. Then Big D comes out.

Right? We got Big D here. Yeah, and there's Big D about like, alright, so what did you think watching Keith? And she was upset about one thing. Yeah. He tried to raise one thing. Yeah. He tried to raise my son.

Yeah. The one thing I didn't like is he told Missy how to raise her. You don't tell a mom how to raise her baby. I didn't like that. I didn't like that. She's like Keith. She'll just

give it to you straight. Just telling you exactly how it is. So that she didn't like that. She didn't even like when Keith did that. And so she called it out and that's big D. Okay. Josh, anything that you want to talk about in terms of our final three now having their breakfast? No, not really

like do we like what is the final breakfast even look like they still have it they still do the same thing yeah yeah so is this like the thing that has changed the least about survival breakfast um

it's pretty similar I don't think there's much of a change of like the end, like, like the final day is still pretty. Day 26 is still formatted pretty close to day 39. Yeah. Until after the reading of the votes. Right. Right. Until that.

And then obviously like even final tribal has changed in recent years. Right. Like it's become like the the pile on as opposed to in this episode it'll be everybody gets one beat to go up which is what it was for so long yeah so to me i guess the only point i'm trying to make is like is like the actual day 39 breakfast like one of the things that they just have never really touched uh it's basically that with like a couple of unique iterations. They don't really start

it until when... I don't even know. Is it Rob and Amber have the first Day 39 breakfast? Is that right? And that's what kicks it off? I think so. Yeah. I don't think that Jenna and Matt had a breakfast together. I didn't hear about any legendary breakfast. No.

Matt almost blew the camp up. Right. That would imply that he had a hearty day 39 breakfast if he almost blew the camp up. Yeah. Alright. So, let's get to the final Tribal Council because

it's a pretty epic one. There's some very big moments in here yeah uh you know there's there's one very famous takedown speech in here um there's like you know like uh some things that i'd forgotten were like keith's question just kind of basically being like why'd y'all have to do that? I just didn't like the line. I didn't like that. It's like, well, it's the show.

It is the show. And so he's like, well, I don't think I liked that part. Yeah. Natalie answers him and he's like, well, I know that you gotta do what you gotta do, but I just hate, I hate the constant line. I know it's part of the game, but I went through this half of the game without an alliance, without lying,

without, without, until it falls down to it. I just don't know what to say. That's the way I look at it. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. That's the best part. That's the way I look at it. We got that Keith. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't like that part. That's the way he looks at it. Yeah. I feel like John Mish could have done more to pump up jacklyn uh yeah he was as john mish as possible you know like he just kind of shows up yeah good job you did it yeah so like i think you could have like done a little better there yeah uh can i say that something that um i i don't know how I reacted in the real time to this, but I have to say that Baylor talking to Missy really like I thought was very touching. Wow, Rob.

Yeah. I can't imagine that you had this reaction in the moment. I don't I doubt that I did. But just watching it, um, the fact that she, I mean, she doesn't even try to like plead for,

um, her mom to get any votes, but she basically just like makes the like analog of like, you know, basically I feel like our whole lives, like we've just been like hobbling on one leg trying to get through this whole thing and um you know we've been we've been through it all together all these men coming in and out of our lives being blindsided and you know uh you got to the final

three i'm so proud of you i love you like uh Like, uh, that was to me, like, just, uh, I don't know, maybe just watching it like as a, as a parent now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's probably a good amount of that. And like being able to maybe imagine like yourself in similar situation, right? Like something like that would be such like an incredible thing to bring home. I just feel like that the whole season is about like Missy, like my kid, don't go to my kid. Like, uh, you know, it's so much about like Missy and I'd like for Baylor to say like, mom, I'm, I'm proud of you. You did look at, look at you on one leg. You got to the end. Like, uh, this was like a great accomplishment. She's not like, and this is why my mom should win

everybody. She wasn't even politicking for a vote she wasn't trying to take down natalie she was just like uh you know mom i'm really proud of you and it's just it's always been just us and it's always going to be just us and we have this special relationship i just thought it was very nice it's very sweet and i think that that's got to be a very happy memory that they have or at least it could have been uh if not for the fact that oh my god that's great kelly's music yes coming up missy although missy has a weird response she says uh uh she says love you babe the that's the best hug i've ever had right there i'll take it right there and i have to go back i'm like wait did she get a hug like why why yeah no the words the a hug. The words were the hug. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. That's what she got. And we have, like, Wes also, I was tickled by Wes's question. He just looked like he was on, like, laughing gas the whole time that he was up there. Ah, man. Wes goes up there and he's just like,

oh, what a great experience we all had here together. Isn't it cool we played Survivor with our family? Tell me what that felt like for you. And that's it. He's just like, what was it like playing with your loved one? Can I just say at least this one last time, Rob?

Wes is a good boy. He hasn't been to jail. He's got good questions. What a sweet, gentle, final impression to leave on this season. It's like, God, I really loved playing with my dad. How did you guys like it? Did you like playing with your loved ones?

I thought that was sweet. I thought that was nice. Jeremy's statement. Jeremy's so great. He's like, don't be mad. Natalie did it. There's nothing to say. I'm not mad at any of you at all.

Natalie did great. That's it. i don't even need anything he says he doesn't need any questions answered yeah he's got it he's good he's just there to be like just vote for natalie okay just all right now the one that is the most epic and i think that has aged particularly well josh i feel like that in the moment in like on the night i think that people were not necessarily feeling uh reed's speech yeah to missy real well yes of course i guess what i'm on the edge of my seat is right now is like when you say it's aged particularly well do you think that the people who love this season, like really love this as an ending story? Um, I don't know. I think that people like that.

OK, we don't get stuff like this anymore. It's very like catty and petty. And it's like it's like giving like old school reality television. And I think that like for the people who want to like make Survivor great again, like I feel like we don't get stuff like this anymore. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Like it is like a savage,

a moment as this show produces. And I have to say like listening to it back, like I kind of feel like that read, uh, he kind of ate on this one and he did. I kind of feel like he wasn't really wrong or off base either. Do you have it? Did you clip this out?

Yeah, this is from the whole clip. It's like three minutes long so we could listen in. Ladies, just a few things before we close tonight. Skip ahead to when he gets to you. He starts, starts as like,

Natalie, you're so good at this. Jacqueline, you're so great. Yeah, okay, but we'll see. You cast yourself as the motherly figure. However, fans of classic literary fiction will see through very quickly

to who your true character was. Josh, are you a fan of classic literary fiction? Are you you a fan of classic literary fiction? Are you even a fan? Yeah. I'm a big fan of the modern classic American literary fiction known as The White Lotus.

Okay. All right, here we go. The fans of the classic literary fiction uh will uh know missy instantly which is the wicked stepmother really of the tribe it's the eccentric woman who comes in and makes demands on everyone for the things to which she feels so entitled you know she spoils her children by perhaps giving them more rice at dinner or the best places to sleep. He's on one X. Reed is really racing through this.

He's going, he's, he, but you know what? But he's taking his time. He's like luxuriating in the kill. In Dungeons and Dragons, often this is popularized by critical role. DM Matt Mercer, when somebody gets the final blow Against a bad guy says how would you Like to do this and what you're supposed To do is vividly describe the kill Make it a really cool epic moment for your

Character someone told Reed like How do you want to do this And this is how he's killing Missy on Survivor In the shelter she takes Things that she's either not entitled to Or didn't earn herself, which was always evidenced by the fact that you got

more gimmies in this game than anyone and performed the worst out of anyone at challenges. Let's just do some live fact checking. Did Missy get more gimmies than anybody else? Ah, okay. Well,

she certainly was part of the gimme-est tribe in survivor history hunapu according to jeff probes so she's part of a group of very gimme players but was she the gimme-est gimme gappenberg i don't know yeah okay all right all right here we go lastly you made the quintessential wicked stepmother move by abusing the help which in this case was the minority alliances throughout the game you always made sure they felt inferior you always kept them in their place and you always made it eminently clear that they weren't coming to the ball that is the tribal council here this evening with you so that to me feels like your fatal flaw in your whole plan because unlike life in the game of survivor the outcasts are the one who gets the final say so in a sweeping moment of poetic justice the people to which you were so rude and terrible to you before

relegating them to the jury with the help of your alliance are going to decide your fate this evening this is why i love fairy tales because they always have a happy ending and the wicked stepmother never wins. Not back then. Good luck. Wow. Okay, well, that was a lively final tribal, for sure. Hey. This is what comes with making it to the final three. A jury who's going to make you earn it every step of the way.

Baylor, don't worry about it. Stop. She's very, like, Missy's like, Baylor, don't worry about it. And she, like, he nails, like, alright, alright, alright.y's like don't worry about it like he nails like all right all right all right she's like stop she goes stop i need to breathe um where to begin where to truly begin with any of this uh it's uh it's it's so savage it would be savage It would be savage in any context of Survivor, but gosh, to do it on a blood versus water season with your daughter right there,

after her daughter has just given this, to your point, it is like overkill. The joy turned to ash in her mouth stop stop she's already dead so much yeah it's so hardcore and then also uh we get in the like the reaction to that in the reunion show like i i think it was uh uh particularly stinging for Missy because she actually is a stepmother. And Reed says, oh, I didn't really know that. And so, and Jeff says, all right, Reed, do you want to apologize?

He's like, no, I don't stand by what I said. He says, not really. Yeah, he does. He ultimately does the same thing. And that's always one of my qualms with the players that, you know, the reunion show is such a great opportunity. You can really do almost anything in this final tribal council. And then when at the reunion show, Jeff is always going to give you the opportunity of like, hey, but that was back there.

That was the heat of the moment. Like, but you guys are cool now. And it's like such a dud when throughout Survivor history, I'm not singling out Reed, whether it's like Rob and Big Tom or, you know, you know, Shireen and Will or like there's all these opportunities where like, hey, but you guys are good now, right? Like, it's just like it's the simplest thing in the world. You could lie. It's like, yeah, that was like, we're cool. Everybody wants to see like, OK, you you know this was we had our fun and we are not left on a sour note who is that good for though you know uh if you're reed is that good for survivor or is that good for reed you know is it good for reed to be like oh yeah you know i take it all back uh it's good

for me i take it all back it's like ah missy. No, I take it all back. It's like, oh, Missy's cool. Like, you know, we're good now. Like, it's just such an awkward moment. How do you possibly ever be cool with this person ever again after a moment like this? I think that this is like one of those moments in

Survivor history that like, you can't uncross this line. Like, maybe now, maybe maybe today they could have a laugh about it i don't know where they are in their lives but like months later and especially like like minutes after it's aired live for the world but but josh also like earlier in this very reunion show like we are propping up josh and reed as vessels of christ earlier in this very reunion show like we are propping up josh and reed as vessels of christ earlier in this very same show so it's just for the sake of the branding that we could say like like yeah like uh you know what that uh that this was bad you know i i got a little too excited

missy i'm so uh sorry about that yeah yeah no uh he he doesn't have it in him that's that is how deep his ire towards missy goes he won't walk it back it's his signature move he's not walking back his signature move okay uh read read kelly uh you uh lived long enough to see yourself become the villain here at the Final Tribal Council. It's a wild speech. Very, very, very riveting TV. Yeah. By the way, Reed still looks great.

Yeah. I don't know if you've seen him recently. What's Reed got going on? A lot. What does this mean? Do your research. Oh, no. he's a busy guy I'm too late Larry on this one

he's a busy guy alright I got it picking up what you're putting down hard worker great whoa very hard yeah I figured it out yes

Josh let's go cut to the live reunion show very hard. Yeah. I figured it out. I figured it out. Yes. Okay. Josh, let's go cut to the live reunion show. Yeah. We got votes. We've got votes. Uh, the only thing we haven't written,

like, you know, like Jacqueline fights decently. Well, Natalie, the whole time keeps being like, yeah, it was the best one here.

I think I, uh, dance circles around these guys. And so we get to the final tribal, uh, we get to the final tribal. We get to the reunion part of the final tribal. And there are no surprises in the votes. The only surprise maybe is Reed voting for Jacqueline.

Then you think about it for half a second longer. And he just wanted to make sure that Missy was clearly third place. He wanted to cleanly make sure that his vote made it that Missy was third place. That's not a vote for Jacqueline. That's a vote against Missy for sure. Yeah. Okay. All right.

So let's talk about the reunion show. Yeah. It happens, you know. I don't know like not terribly eventful jeff's a little weird here uh like in a couple of specific ways um but one of the specific ways that jeff is really weird here is plus we're gonna check in on the status of john and jacklyn are they still together it's like were we left with any real reason to think they're not like why are you framing it this way yeah and then like you know

in the end he's like so are you still together yeah dude we got engaged well they had a fight we had one fight we had a single fight I voted for her yeah I said I love you what are you trying to do here so like that was weird that like feel that fits very neatly in the yeah uh describe love to me version of jeff probes that he currently is in

this season judge do you have any uh specific memories of being in the building that night uh i was i i found myself i wears waldo myself. You can wears Waldo me very easily. Did you have good seats or not? I had the nosebleeds. I was very far in the back. I'm like back, like almost the very back row in the center section towards the right. And you see me like fist pumping

and doing stuff like that a couple of times. I remember uh i just i don't think really much from this one the biggest uh memories are to come uh my san juan del sur like in the building memories are a lot more scattered uh because they're like overshadowed by some other stuff that happens around this time but like starting with next season and like the second chance reveal you know that's a that's a from from there on I feel like I really remember to the reunions

pretty distinctly including the first ever see a award which was terrifying horrifying moment horrifying moment yeah all right um anything else from the reunion show you want to highlight um well the he highlights worlds apart right like he's like hey well okay but so we spent we spent a lot so they really kind of uh

yada yada like this finale for jeff to really he's so excited about season 30 and he is going to like hype up the no collar, white collar, no collar, blue collar. And then we'll bring up like randos from the audience that will speak to. You think they were industry plants? Are they randos? This feel like sniffing out with me, Rob. First of all, the white collar guy. Are they Brando's? This feel like sniffing out with me, Rob. First of all, the white collar guy. So, so, so he plays the trailer, the world's apart trailer.

And Jeff says, all right, let's do a little experiment. Who here identifies as white collar? You over there. Come up here. This guy could not have gotten there like faster. Like he knew his mark and he knew they were like crunched for time. He had to get his lines out at a specific time. This guy who he then says, who's blue collar?

And this guy shows up and he's like, yeah, blue collar. I'm very proud of my job. And yeah, I love my job. I'm very proud to be a blue collar. This was like the backdoor pilot for Tough as Nails. And then it just so happens, Rob, that right next to Jeff Probst is a no-collar. Young, attractive, no-collar woman. Young, attractive, no-collar. So I don't think that they were.

You've got tattoos. You're a no-collar, aren't you? I don't think that they were industry plants. I think that they might have just like Price is Right style. Like, you know. They got picked. Yeah. Prime the audience.

price is right style like you know pick but yeah uh prime the audience like the warm-up guy asked for because that the no collar guy is not word perfect with uh some of his answers no no uh they ask about like what does it mean to be like uh no like are you proud of being it and he's like he gives an answer like well i think they'll ask this guy questions more than like this guy just kind of offers it up. There's a little bit more of a back and forth with these two. Yeah. Okay. But how did we feel...

Do you employ people? Yeah. You know? How did we feel in the moment? Josh, now, do you remember that we did a podcast, you and I, right after the San Juan del Sur finale? That totally tracks. That same night? No, I believe it was probably the next night.

Next day, right? Yes. Do you remember any of the details about this? This was a great tradition where I would come to Los Angeles for one of these reunions and either you were on the carpet as well and even if you weren't, we would typically meet up the next day and do a recap of the reunions. I'm glad that those exist.

Cause then that means the record reflects whatever happened that night. Do you recall that we did not record this podcast in my home? Where did we record it? We recorded it from the studios of podcast one. Of course. Absolutely. Yes. Yes.

This was our first ever, uh, in person interview. I do not believe that it's the case. I believe that we, I believe we spoke in person. I believe we did a podcast in person during survivor Kageon. That is correct. Yes. Okay. So this is our second in person during Survivor Cagayan. That is correct.

Yes. Okay. So this is our second in-person ever podcast is at Podcast One. Yet we had worked about nine or 10 seasons into the evolution of strategy. I can visualize that room. Can you see the room? Yes. Yes.

Yeah. We're on kind of like a long table. Yeah. Podcast One Studios. But we were on the, kind of like a long table. Yeah. Conference table, podcast one studios. But we were on like the, like the short like sides of the table. So like, uh,

we were still like kind of like, it wasn't like Bruce Wayne and Vicki Vale. Like we were just across the table from each other. It was like kind of a long table, conference table. Yes. Okay. So,

uh, just to give some backstory. Um, so I, I came on and I said, wow, what a great finale. And Stephen Fishback,back uh said that no it

was not i called it a phenomenal finale on the night of the finale stephen said i can't wait to disagree with you he said uh that the final tribal council was bad he said the questions were boring the speeches were boring uh and or he said the answers were boring. The speeches were mumbly. The speeches were mumbly. Look, Jeremy's speech is a little mumbly. I feel like, you know, there's really nothing to write home about with Alec here. Alec is just fishing for compliments. Wes is an inoffensive good boy.

Keith's a little bit, you know, unstructured. But I think all of it is, uh, probably made up for with the exemplary if offensive, but exemplary, uh, public speaking from, from Reed Kelly. Like that is as put together, uh, final tribal speeches I've ever heard content, not withstanding. Okay. So let me give you some of the, the, in the real time, this is what we're saying. So you said that, uh, Fishback has a lot of anger to get over and is a Scrooge McDuck. Yeah. Wow. Uh, 10 years later, I feel exactly the same. Yeah. And so, uh, you were, you liked the finale despite what Steven had to say. You said that the crowd was with Keith and Natalie.

The crowd went wild. Yeah, of course. Yes. They was with Keith and Natalie. The crowd went wild. Yeah, of course. Of course they were with Keith and Natalie. You said that there was a lot of reaction to Reed's speech, but you missed

quite a bit of it. That I missed the speech itself? That would track because really it's, you know, not dissimilar to a live RHAP

viewing of a Survivor episode, except it's like the official freaking finale. So like those pops in the room, they really explode. So like the experience you're getting at the finale is like you're at the finale, but as a means to like really process and analyze the episode and like really appreciate the episode, maybe not as much. Maybe not as much. Yeah. You also said that the big winner of the night was whom? Ooh, who was the big winner of the night? Was it Austin Russell?

Yes, you said that. He got the biggest laugh when he said to Jeff, you're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. Austin Russell. I still can't, I can't get over this. That Austin Russell. I still can't I can't get over this. That Austin Russell designs

a challenge as but an 11 year old boy it makes it on to Survivor 29 and by Survivor 43 he's a dream teamer. Yeah. It's incredible. Big winner. That's an incredible story. Yeah. Okay. What if he's listening

to this right now? Austin. Shout out Austin. Shoutin shout out at the crib yep okay wiggler agreed with steven about jeremy's speech being blah it was a little but i think like uh knowing more about jeremy now it's really funny yeah uh like this not being jeremy's final note on Survivor like if this had been Jeremy's final note on Survivor I don't know how often like we're talking about this you know like I don't think you like remember him in the same way okay

at the after party so I guess I did go to an after party Spencer told Rob he's going to Vita yoga with Vitas and Wiggler said oh no a whole disaster a whole disaster yeah okay I mean that feels that if anything feels more so now with Vetus and Wiggler said, oh no, a whole disaster. A whole disaster. Yes. I mean, that feels, if anything feels more so now. Yeah. Rob got the

feeling that Jeff didn't like Natalie as a winner. I think, I think, do you still feel that way or is it more about the season? I think he came around on her eventually but what I said at the time, and I think there's some truth to this that he didn't like her as a winner because she was adopted she was an amazing race person

who they brought into survivor and was not a you know an original survivor so jeff i'd like could not wait to get to worlds apart in very very few ways was Natalie on Survivor because Jeff would have wanted it that way, right? Like, you know, it's like you have to have someone from one of our CBS reality families on Survivor this year. Like the way you had Hayden on, you have to do that and it's going to be the 20s.

He's like, oh, you know, like that's probably it. And then one of them goes on to win. I don't think he can appreciate necessarily in the moment that like, it's a pretty impressive win. But I think really the bigger thing is like, he just is really kind of down on this season. He just really doesn't like. So I don't know if this is a true or Danielle is playing with the

historical record. She says after calling himself a fan of the season and noting it's in the top 15 for him, Wiggler said he likes this season and would go on a date with it in downtown Orlando. That doesn't feel like something I would... Does that not track? It tracks as something I certainly could have said. Does it track as like a...

I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think that I would take San Juan del Sur on a date, Rob. I think I would marry San Juan del Sur on a date, Rob. I think I would marry San Juan del Sur. Marry instantly. I think I would marry San Juan del Sur. Yes. I think if you checked in on my relationship status 10 years later,

and Josh and San Juan del Sur's relationship, are they still together? Find out on the other side of this commercial. I think you'd find out I got engaged to San Juan del Sur. I only love it more. Okay. Josh, do you have any highlights from your interviews with the players?

No, I should have pulled some of that up. I do. I do remember just in like the continued hunt for headlines and how did I enjoy my headlines that I wrote back then uh versus uh versus now and so to pull up the natalie anderson one uh i believe i i really enjoyed this uh because my nadia my nadia article was called first blood like ram Yes. I called this one Final Blood. And I thought that was cool.

That's all I really remember about that. I used to get so scared on red carpets. And I was not confident enough as a reporter yet, even then. I think I'm 29 years old here at this moment in time. That maths correctly. So yeah, I would have been still pretty starstruck yeah i think like i had like i'd done one world i had done kagian and kagian was a really cool one and this was at the end of like the first season of covering it super regularly on exit press like i think i was probably really starstruck

uh i i remember like being like really starstruck to talk to natalie uh i remember feeling like pretty excited that i was having a conversation with keith nail uh so i have fond memories of it for sure a year later you and i would be talking to keith nail in person yeah uh-huh that's right yeah okay i would be talking to him in in may of uh 2015 you spent yeah a lot of time with keith nail in uh the upcoming 2015 okay so uh josh by the way my takes uh i feel like you know age like fine wine as opposed to yeah i think so that's okay uh rob called the baylor blindside uh steven acknowledged that natalie was a great winner and the Baylor blindside. Stephen acknowledged that Natalie was a great winner and the Baylor blindside was special,

but the whole finale was bad. Rob stood his ground, according to Josh Green, and said that it was a great finale all the way through and Natalie was an excellent winner. Rob said that the Baylor blindside is one of the biggest moves in the history of the show. In the history of the show up to that point, maybe. You don't think so? It's one of the biggest moves in the history of the show up to that point, maybe you don't, you don't think so that it's one of the biggest moves in the history of the

show. Natalie playing the idol for Jacqueline. It's, it's definitely up there. Like if you're going to, if you're going to like draw up, okay, well,

is it doing this along the way? Right. Is it top 20? Um, I don't think it's top 20. Hmm. If it is, then I feel like that you are,

uh, like, uh, I feel like historically such a big fan of this. Honestly, I don't know. I'm just trying to think of like all the big moves that I don't remember from like 40 onward.

Like, this is a good idea. Okay. Uh, 25th anniversary, the biggest 25 moves in the history of survivor that's really it that's really it like i need to just like get reacquainted with it and i'm looking at the comments right now hang on a second like i see sasha is here i see christian hubicki is here right now and i'm

getting a this is why rob is my bestie absolutely i this was the move that made me fall madly in love with Natalie Anderson. No doubt. Absolutely. Uh, and I was very enamored of this moment for quite some time and rewatching it today was still as enamored of that moment as I was then. I just don't know. I don't really, I like this 20, 25 biggest moves, Josh of 25 years ofor? I'd be curious to look at this. I need to get reacquainted with a lot of this stuff. What do we do? Is it a series of videos? Do we drop one podcast a week?

Whatever. Let's workshop it offline. But I think it's a fun idea. We're online. We've never RHAP ranked the top moves of survivor yeah i thought you wrote an article one time about the top 10 moves but it was that was like like 12 years ago oh gosh it was a long time ago it's i mean it's like right around most of them wouldn't even make the list now yeah should i should we pull this up real quick uh the 10 best strategic moves ever on Survivor. This is March 2014 is when I wrote this.

Number 10. So this is what I thought back in the day. In March of 2014, number 10 was Boston Rob sending Matt Elrod back. Not even in the top 30. Not even close. Yeah. At number nine, I've got the dead grandmother lie.

Okay. Again, I think we could get into like, that's a moment. Is it a move? Yeah. A moment. Hold up, bro. I'm probably not making the list.

Was number eight. I don't think it's making the list. from Carrabo. I'm probably not making the list. It was number eight. I don't think it's making the list. I have Todd at Final Tribal at number seven. This is not my best work. Yeah, again, I don't know. That's not move necessarily.

I think if we're talking about a move, history's going to look kindly on Natalie. The rock vote, the rock draw from Blood vs. Water was number six. Rob, I put you at number five.

I put you getting rid of Christy at number five. That's probably not making the top 20. If it does, it's probably an RGP vote. You're always the first one to say that. But the truth is, it's a great move.

It's a terrific move. It's a foundational move. And you're the Robin Robbins podcast that's been making the list. Yeah. The right-back job, I had it only number four, which feels ridiculous. Fall of the row to four, I have at number three,

which I would still hold on to as one of the absolute tops. I have Hatch making an alliance on here. At number two. I think a lot of this is for historical record. And then, of course,

Poverty's double idol play. I think there's a lot of stuff to add to the list. I think it would be like... Maybe it's a fan vote to submit the list, but I think it's a panel of experts. I think it would be really fun to dig into. I think that there's something here for sure, and I think if people

are interested in that, they should let us know. This is my favorite idea so far for 25th anniversary. I love this idea. It's great. Too bad we found it on the last episode. No, this is good. This is hopeful last episode. Well, no, this is good. Oh, this is hopeful. This is like, hey, this is the season.

This is like, boy, this was... Wait until next season. This was worth the journey. Yeah. Wow. It really is about the friends you make along the way and the ideas that you get at the very end of the podcast that make the whole thing worthwhile. Let's see you get at the very end of the podcast,

that make the whole thing worthwhile. Let's see. Uh, Steven is a lot lower on the season. Only saying Natalie is a good winner. And then said that the bad gameplay and the unlikable cast brought it down. All to say that that list was written before this season aired. And for sure, Natalie's making that top 10 in that list.

I think it was probably written before Kagayan because I think March 14th is when it comes out. It was like four weeks into Cagayan. Yeah. And at that point, like Tony looked like this was going to be like a sixth. All right. Rob said they weren't going to bring anybody back other than Jeremy or

Natalie. Got that one wrong. Got them wrong. Got that one wrong. Kelly and Keith. Big, you know. So not all my takes were great. The ones they've brought back, stars, right?

Every single one of them that they brought back went deep the next time that they played. Even if Natalie went home first, she didn't go home home and she came back. Natalie, she fully back. Yeah. Natalie, she went the full, she fully 20 to herself. The way that she, Nadia's first,

Natalie's last in San Juan del Sur. And then Natalie is the Nadia surrogate and then gets to final tribal at the end of it. Okay. Incredible arc. A couple other things. Rob said in regards to season 30, I'm pumped.

Anytime we get to see three tribes, Joshosh adds unironically uh you know look uh they can't all be winners um natalie in my exit interview makes a sticky situation reference uh uh rob asked if she knew she was gonna win she said i knew i had that ish in the bag yeah Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. How are they so confident? Yeah, Baylor. We should all figure out a way to be so confident. Yeah. It's incredible.

Baylor also said, shut your mouth, homie G. Uh-huh. Of course she did. Mm-hmm. So she was a good sport. They were hanging out. San Juan del Sur was a fun season. I think people were interacting in a fun way.

And we weren't exactly pulling bunches along the way either. So it was just a good back and forth. Yeah. Okay. Did Missy recognize that she was known as Muffin? Yeah. No. I'm looking at what Danielle wrote up. Rob asked missy if she would send reed a

christmas card uh she would not send reed a christmas card she thinks there's someone in his life that he has a relationship that was triggered by however missy was out there he needs to fix that uh she says that he's full of spite but she's sure he's a good person okay bless your heart is basically the tldr on that yeah okay all right um then did you ever get on missy's christmas card list uh no i never got a christmas card for missy it's unfortunate yep okay maybe someday it'll just show up it'll just show up okay yeah josh there you go that's a survivor say one little sir we did it what did we learn and by the way also i just want to say after uh all of this uh i did a the uh i we did our sleepover podcast with tony following kagi on but then we had a great post-season interview with nat Anderson I think it's like over two hours lots of laughs a lot of we like did like uh really that's where the deep dive I think was born

like uh going through her whole game and you know Natalie was you know a a great friend of the podcast and uh was on a lot in this era yeah uh what doesalie keep up with the show do we know i i think well i think she was like very like she like recently um in survivor 45 was like instagramming up a storm over kyle winning immunity and she said that he was like screenshotting she was saying like when he balanced like the thing on his uh maybe she's triggered against like people that win these ball challenges. Like that she said that he had like the plate on his forearm. Whoa. Like,

like, yeah, but I just feel like that there's a lot of people that watch these challenges. Nat, I think, I think Jeff would have called it out if there was a real, like,

like a literal plate that he was like hiding or like a plate on like some sort of metal plate? No, no. It was like he had the circular thing that he was balancing the billiard balls on. Yeah, there's no way that's good. Rachel couldn't even grab a fistful of rice. Yeah. Okay. Josh, you and I have been talking about what do we do next?

What are we like? But I don't get the sense that there's a ton of momentum for us to go back and visit revisit worlds apart. That's the thing. I think that there's so much like, I think like the, the feelings on San Juan del Sur are so like overwhelmingly positive and good vibey.

And I don't know if 10 years later, that's how it feels towards worlds apart. I know that the people who love that season, like really stand by it. You better relax. I haven't gone back. So like, again,

I told, I told this on the podcast not terribly long ago that like, sometimes I'll just try to do the mental exercise. Like, can I remember everybody on this season of survivor? And I got hung up on Rodney of all people was like the one that I couldn't. Just close your mouth, open your ears and just watch what happens. It took a long time to get there. I think that the absolute worst thing that i could do for my mental

health is to like podcast about that season and have like the worlds apart alum in my in my inbox well actually in me i want absolutely nothing to do with that energy at all okay uh and it's like that would go we're talking about some other things. We have some ideas that we'll still continue to talk about. We have some really fun ideas. We have some fun ideas, okay, but I don't think we want to continue. I like this spot. I think the Survivor time machine is really fun to activate while a season is

on, actually. I think the ways in which these things, like the way in which this finale of San Juan del Sur is so wildly different from what we're getting, like a, like a four hour. You know, we haven't really talked about any sort of like parallels in Survivor 47. And then also the week that was in Survivor San Juan del Sur.

I have been making the comparison that Rachel's game to this point is like weirdly similar to Mike Holloway, Josh, speaking of Worlds Apart. Interesting, interesting. Except that like Mike, I mean, I guess this would be why I would watch Worlds Apart. Like how in on the actualization of like boats changing was Mike. You know, like I feel like with Rachel, I just feel like Rachel's had like more command than Mike did.

But she also has to grid it out in order to win, which is what Mike had to do. That's interesting. I have to think about that a little bit. But, and they're very different players in terms of like type and approach. And, but like,

it's been a similar journey for the two of them. That being said, okay. Anything else from how like the final six and final five ended up going down? No, I thought it was interesting to think about, uh,

what fire could have looked like. Uh, you know, that could have been Keith nails moment. Keith nail could have beasted fire for sure. Uh, I think if, I think if final fire,

uh, like the final four fire making is in here, I think Keith maybe wins survivor San Juan, sir. Mm. Okay. Uh, but,

but, uh, that's not what happens. Yeah. Um, uh, one bill sir okay uh but but uh that's not what happens yeah um sue has had like a uh mom and daughter relationship with a few of the different players this season yeah but like much more like missy and baylor uh relationship with uh like uh maybe that is that what kyle said about um sue and caroline that uh they told rome of like uh yeah he said that they're like missy and baylor yeah they're like evily and Baylor yeah they're like evil stepsisters you know

I think like there's been some wicked step you don't call me Tweedledee or my kid Tweedledum that's my Tweedledee yeah I think that's there's something there I think that more like

I guess like going into the final four of this, it's not dissimilar to the final four of San Juan del Sur and that there's like only two serious win candidates right now, I think. It was really going to be Natalie or Keith probably. And here it feels like it can only be Rachel

or Sam. So at least that's how I'm seeing it right now. Sam Juan del Sur. Sam Juan del Sur. I mean, that could be your biggest, uh, like if you're trying to see is San Juan Del Sur predicting the future, uh, then if Sam wins and this becomes Sam Juan Del Sur, you will know that we actually do have a time machine and we timed all of this immaculately. Like those ribs in Wu's mouth. Okay. All right. Well, Josh,

well done. What a fun ride. This is great. I had so much fun. The fall went by quick and this went by very quick also. I agree. This whole run through this. I agree. It was great. It was very fun. This is the longest stretch of Survivor conversation I've had in forever.

And it was wonderful. I had a blast blast it was really fun to do every week all right season holds up josh what else is going on for you lots going on over at we know scripted tv.com the scripted wing of our hap uh we've got um recaps of silo the the Apple TV Plus show. That's like a deep dive mystery boxy show. Mike Bloom and Grace Leder are covering that. Have you checked out Silo, Rob? No. You haven't gone down into the Silo? No. Should I?

I think you're all right. I don't think it's going to be your show. But then again, you love For All Mankind. I think you might like it. Is it like For All Mankind? Was there no For All Mankind mankind in 2024 i was thinking back i feel like it was like around christmas time i remember watching the finale last year yeah i don't believe we got any for all mankind this year uh we're gonna catch up to where they are i think yeah i think it's getting close uh but you love an apple tv drama so i think you could enjoy looking at the

the poster for Silo. I have no idea what it's about, but this is what it looks like. Yeah, let me see it. So let me see. If I could just guess what Silo is. So I see a woman is in a space suit. Is that an alien planet? It looks like there's some dead corpses.

So what is there? Has there's like some dead corpses. So, uh, what is there? Has there been some sort of like, uh, Armageddon and there's some sort of like fallout going on in the background. Am I close? I mean, like basically,

yeah. Yeah. I'm looking for a little bit of a pick me up. It's a surprisingly funny show. Yeah. It's actually, it's actually not. It's like very,

it's played very straight for drama and it's very twisty and turny. And Mike and Grace are all over it. Yeah. It's actually not. It's played very straight for drama and it's very twisty and turny. And Mike and Grace are all over it. Yeah. But other shows from Apple TV Plus, Severance is coming back. The Doctors and I are checking in on Severance with a season one speed run right now

on the way to the Jan 17th return of Severance. And I mean, I think next year is going to have a lot of really fun stuff in the scripted realm, Rob, including the fact that we referenced him earlier. But the White Lotus is coming back. We have a date. February 16th is the return of the White Lotus.

How about that? The White Lotus. Yeah. Now that's a-hmm. The Wah Lotus. Yeah. Now, that's a prestige drama I could get into. I think so. I would love to talk about The White Lotus with you when it comes back. Oh, that'd be fun.

Yeah, that could be really fun. Mm-hmm. Maybe we'll do that. Maybe we'll do that. Maybe we'll do that. Yeah, maybe we'll do that if enough people subscribe to WeKnowScriptedTV.com. WeKnowScriptedTV.com. WeKnowScriptedTV.com.

Hit subscribe. Tell a friend. Pass the word along and come along for the party. We're having a really good time. We can program tastemakers, all sorts of stuff. Really good time. Okay. Now that's how you do it on RHAP.

What do you think about that for merch? I like that. I like that for us 10 years ago. Yeah. What about for now? Now that's how you do it on RHAP? I mean, I would like it, but does anyone know what's going on with it? I don't know. What does the chat think?

Anybody want that merch? I don't know. What should it be? I think we've put them to sleep with like the serene story of they like this yeah they like it that the people that are an hour and 30 minutes into this are the people that like this was this like their favorite podcast you think we're playing in the back of the room now everybody else everyone in the front of the room is gone yeah these are our people yes yeah okay look this

one fan would like it yeah one fan would like it okay I'll get it I'll show it off it'll be a good time okay Rob what do you got going on this week anything I got a big survivor finale coming up got a fun podcast coming up after the finale

I'll be talking with Adam Klein it's been a minute since I talked to him on the podcast and we'll see what he thinks as we crown the newest Survivor winner. Plus, we'll have our final four exit interviews coming up on Thursday. And then Stephen Fishback can weigh in and tell us if it was a good finale or not. Yeah. What do you think he's going to say? Higher on this than San juan del sur you think

i don't know maybe after playing with jeremy maybe he has a little bit more reverence for uh san juan del sur yeah okay all right thank you so much for joining us everybody take care of a good one uh let us know even if you're not watching us live we love to read what you have to say in the comments it helps us make decisions around here. So don't be shy with how you're feeling about the show. And how about this is a

10 year ago classic. If you've finished listening to this series, hit us on social media with the hashtag Stan Juan Del Sur. How about that? Right.

As a Coca-Cola classic throwback. I love it. Alright, thank you so much. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Only one man can really know So we say Go, go, Rob says to me, no You are the best that we know Just grab your mic and we go wild

We live by a simple creed, oh If Rob has a podcast, we have a hero This is your time.