RHAP: We Know Survivor - Talking with T-Bird: Jake Billingsley

Episode Date: August 30, 2025

This week, Rob and T-Bird talk to Survivor Thailand's Jake Billingsley.

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If you stay here and listen, your life will never be the same. Because we're talking with T-bird now And this T-Bird you cannot change Oh, this T-Bird you cannot change And things might be pretty strange Yeah, that's right. Talking with Teabird is back here for another great interview. And today we're talking with Survivor Thailand's Jake Billingsley here with the woman who brings all the survivors together.

Time in and time out. It's don't call me T-bone, Teresa Cooper. Hi, Rob. Teabird, how are you? I'm good. How are you? you yeah doing great very excited to get the chance to catch up with you and catch up with jake and last time out we had such a great interview new start to the talking with teabird season as we caught up with shannon shambo waters yep yeah so fun yeah never in a loss for words that's for sure no she was great and i know you worked for a long time to get shambo on the podcast

and it was just a great surprise for the listener Shambo is actually now she's actually giving us a lot of feedback. I didn't realize how much she was going to be participating. Shambo had been for many years, somebody that T-Bird was trying to convince to come on the podcast, and Shambo had never listened to a podcast prior to coming on talking with T-Bird, and she listened to the JSON podcast, and then she's been listening back to, the podcast that we all did and she was very happy with how it turned out she's showing it to everybody and she she uh i recently spoke to shambo and she said that she's been contacted by

hundreds of people after being on the podcast yeah at and yesterday i talked with shabbo again and shambo goes all right tiber no more people i'm going dark shambo is going dark again because she has been reached out so many people have reached out to her now when people get in touch with me and say, can you get me in touch, then I'll go to her first. And she's like, yeah, sure, no, no, sure. But now Shambos told me she's going dark again. But not before she has given some RHAP talking with Tiberg advice. Yes. She said we needed to know. So go ahead, Rob. This is your. No, I, I too spoke to Shambo and I've been talking with her. And she also had a lot of feedback for me. And so I appreciate the constructive feedback always. So hopefully we can always

just keep getting better on talking with T-Bird. Some of the things I think that we can fix, other things I think would be harder to fix. And, you know, good, good to know. But, you know, Shambo, she's all about helping people and positivity. And so if she has ideas for ways that you can improve, improve something, you know, she's going to share it. She is going to share it. Yeah. She's going to put it right out there. So I appreciate that from Shambow. Okay, T-Bird, what's been new with you? Summer flying.

I've been flying a lot, but we're getting ready to slow it down. After Labor Day, the airline will slow, Delta will slow down until we start picking up again around Thanksgiving. So she's been working a lot this summer. Do you look forward to the slower season? Because it's coming up on my busy season. Yeah, I enjoy probably more because I love fall. I love fall of the weather.

So it's nice to be home in the fall. And the summer is so hot flying it everywhere. It doesn't matter to me because it's too hot to do much outside. But I love the fall weather. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, T-Bird, are you ready to talk to Jake?

Oh, yes, I am. Okay. Or T-Bird, take it away with your introduction for Jake. Our guest today played on the fifth season of Survivor. Survivor, Thailand. His 60 years of life experiences up to then made him a perfect fifth for this adventure. I would even say prepared him for it. He was born in Tyler, Texas. This Eagle Scout at the age of six would go into the woods by himself, hunt, shoot birds, pluck them, build a fire, cook them, and then eat them. His dad was his hero. His mother, his role.

model. At a young age, she would read him his favorite book, The Little Engine That Could, which helped him believe that all things were possible and it gave him the drive to do things others could not or would not do. He learned from an early age adversity doesn't build character, but how one handles adversity. He has watched every season of Survivor. The first season got his attention. But after watching season two, the Australian Outback, when one of the players said no one over 50 could compete in this game, this self-described old competitor who had done triathlons and also been a Colorado mountain hiking guide for years filled out his application. It was game on. Survivor Tiling won the People's Choice Award that year and had a lot of new

game twist. It was the first time in survivor history that the initial tribes weren't pre-selected by producers, but honored the Thai culture and the respect given to the elders by having the two oldest players choose their tribes and their camp location. Each camp had his advantages and disadvantages. Our guest today chose the camp closest to the water source and the players he chose were the younger, more athletic ones. He made today 33, finishing in sixth place, and was the last member of his tribe standing. He lost 36 pounds and has said he experienced many highs. One of his most memorable highs was having his wife, Jenny, come for the family visit and compete for a chance to spend 24 hours with her loved one. The competition had her

eating a waterbug, three live grubs, a tarantula, and a scorpion. He has been described by his castmates as tenacious, loyal, compassionate, sweet, friendly, and very, very handsome. This motivational speaker and storyteller loves real, genuine, nice people, and will tell you that throwing a challenge is a big mistake and that the winner should be the best person that played the game. the man who has worn many hats in his lifetime, but favors his old adventure hat, the man who believes in God, and that there is good in the world, the man who just celebrated his 84th birthday on August 21st, making him the oldest surviving survivor, my friend Jake, the snake, Billingsley. Yes.

Wow. Jake, how about that introduction? My gosh. I'd forgot most of that. That's what happens when you get this age. You forget most of it. But you remind me of all of it, and it was wonderful. In fact, I have to tell you, I got a little terriade there with some of it. It was really nice. Thank you very much. Thank you, Jake, for being here. I got a little teary eye as I was working on it, thinking about you.

And having you here is such a pleasure. Thank you. Yeah. Teabird, you said you called Jake your friend. Is that mostly from getting ready for this podcast? Or have you two had a relationship over the years? I think we met in the early days, Jake. And, you know, I think it's like we go through this experience together. And I know we met, like I said, because I have this book here, I might as well show it to you now. Jake's book, Shaping My Hat. Yeah. Right?

So Jake had sent me this and signed it. So, yeah, we've known each other a long time. We have. No question about it, you know. And how can you forget anybody who's named T-Bird? Well, some people call her T-Bone now. Oh, I wouldn't do that. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Jake, how are you? I'm doing great man it's so good to see you again you were one of our favorites oh thank you so much Jake well we have you know we both

like they the seasons like come out in twos and so all of you who played on Survivor Thailand are like are always like very much burned into our brains from when we went out there that we talked about you all

like you were the biggest thing yeah you were all on television at the time that we were playing so I remember all of you especially well. Well, thank you. I remember a lot of people on that show. Some of them a lot more than I do others, and you were one of our favorites.

No question about it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Jake. Well, it's so nice to get the chance to catch up with you. And I told you right before we came on, you look and sound great. Well, I felt pretty good. Yeah.

You know, I can't. think quite as fast as I used to. Of course, I'm a Texan. Texans don't talk fast and they can't hear fast, so they just are kind of slow. We just move around at our own pace. Yeah. Well, it's working, whatever it is that you're doing. How do you fill your time these days? Well, right now, I'm back writing a book. I started writing years ago. It's called, well, What is the name of my book called? I have to change the name of it every now and then. Yeah.

Because you have to change some of the stories every now and then. And I hate writing like that, but, you know, I guess what I need is one of those AIs to come in and help me write. But I haven't done that yet. Not yet. Is it fiction or nonfiction? Is it a matter of line? It's nonfiction. Nonfiction.

Okay. Yeah, it's not true. No, part of it's based on a true story. First of the things that I talk about are from my days when I was a hunting guide back in the backwoods of Colorado, which I did for somewhere around 40 years. Actually, I've hunted all over the place. I've hunted in, gosh, where have I hunted? Where have I not hunted? I've hunted in Canada.

I've hunted in Siberia, if you can believe that. Russia, different places like that. So I've been around quite a bit. Yeah. T. Per mentioned in the introduction that you still are watching Survivor. You've watched it all through all these years, 25 years of Survivor. Every season, we've watched it. Jenny and I both, we make a time.

It was really funny when we lived in Arizona. We had a bunch of Canadian friends and they would come over to our house or we would go to their house and every week we had watched Survivor when it was on. I'd tell them what I thought and they'd tell me why I was wrong. Jake, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you actually sent in your first application for season three, Africa. Right? Yes, I did. So it was interesting because I was thinking about this. So who was cast in your place would have been Frank, right, Rob?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, a hunter that ended up being that spot. I could see it. Yeah. And so, Jake, Frank was my number one ally in Africa. So as I'm doing my research about you, I thought, if you had been on season three, I guess you could have been a good chance. You would have been my ally out there, just like Frank was.

I'm sure I would have been your ally. I think I would have been scared to death of those lines when they were growling at you guys at night. My goodness, that was spooky. Well, that would have been the only thing you couldn't have hunted out there in Africa because I know Frank was disappointed about that. But then you- Listen, I opposed myself as a hunter. I quit killing years and years ago.

I was a guide. I would guide hunters out, and we'd find the best animal for him. and he might have a bow and arrow or something like that. And I'd say, you sure you want to kill that thing? I mean, look how pretty he is. And I'd say, I paid $4,500 for this hunt. You think I'm not going to shoot him? Anyway, I didn't kill much after a certain period of time.

You get where you bow hunt and you get as good as you think you should be or would like to be. And then you just quit hunting. You just enjoy being out there in the woods. And I've always done that. So, Jake, so you applied for Africa. Then you applied again for the fourth season, right? Or Mesa. They contacted you for the fifth season.

So tell us how your experience went going through the audition process. Well, the funniest part of my audition part, the first one that I went to was really funny because this little girl met me at CBS in Fort Worth. And when I walked up, she said, oh, Jake, welcome. You look great. And boy, I was kind of, you know, throwing my chest out a little bit. I mean, this girl was a knockout.

And then all of a sudden, she said, for a man your age. Oh. I was 58 years old when I tried out for that one. And then after the, After that, I went out and I tried to recall everything, every question they asked me because I was totally convinced I was going to get to do it again, and I was going to be prepared the next time. And I did. And I did. So you actually auditioned for Africa or did you audition for the fourth one? I actually auditioned for three.

different ones. You sent your application in. I sent my application in for three. Season three, season four, season five, right? Yeah, I auditioned for the first one. And I actually got, you know, I think they said there were 800 places where they would film you and stuff like that. Yeah.

And I went to Fort Worth for that filming. Then the second one I sent in, I didn't get an audition on that one. And the third one I sent in, I did get my, finally got an audition. And I was ready for it. Boy, I'm telling you, I wanted to be on that show in the worst way. When you were going through the process, did you recognize anybody you played with through the audition process at the hotel? No.

Really? No, not a soul. Okay. Well, I think it's interesting that the game started by letting the two elders pick the tribes, which was the first time he'd ever done that. It was the first time, yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I was 60 years old by then. I was 58 when I sent in my first application.

By this time, I was 60. Yeah. I mean, I was ready for it for whatever might come up. and then they put us in two different boats, and we thought we were going to get to play against the girl. Men versus women, yeah. Yeah, well, we thought that was going to happen, but it didn't happen that way.

You know, nothing about survivors ever what you think it's going to be. That's the fun part of it. Yeah. I remember seeing that, and again, that was very much on my mind when we went to go play and that they started your season with all the men in one boat, all the women in one boat. And I remember saying to myself, like, look, they would never do it, men versus women.

That was like, I felt like very confident. They wouldn't do that. Sure enough, they did when I went out. But they had you and Jan select the teams. And the story was really like you had all the young, strong people. And people said, you know, Jake killed Jan in the draft. Jake made such a better team than Jan, where she had the older, later days, people who were not going to be as good in the challenges. Jake, was that how you saw it as well?

Oh, absolutely. As my friend said when I got back, Jake, you just picked the hot shakes. And I said, guys, who do you want to spend that 39 days with? do you want to spend on those old fogies or do you want to spend with those hot no comment jake is this a good time to mention rob that he's got his beautiful bride beside him jen yes well we've heard her a little bit yeah yeah yes okay i don't hear jenny yelling at jake so i don't think you're in trouble yeah so so rob i was going to say now might be a fun time to do that first intro, our clip.

Okay, all right. T-Bird has a clip to show you, Jake. Let's see if we can bring this up. Okay, let's play the clip, Sam. Hi, Jake. Hi, everybody. I hear we're doing a podcast, Jake. I want to tell you, you know,

Blue Survivor and I'm both. We're always ended up together. Now, look at us. We're the two oldest ones they got. once again we're together but that's okay i just want to tell you thank you for all the stories that you told while we're on the island it kept on morale up it they were hilarious and i just want to thank you for hanging in there with me and all the challenges i know some of you and i didn't want to be together but we ended up now we're together i hope jenny's doing good um anyway you

were a great, great guy on the island, and I enjoyed meeting you and being with, living with you for two months. You have a great life. Thank you. There you go. Jenny, what a sweetheart she was. Yeah. We had a great interview with her a couple of years ago, one of my favorites, and she's still so funny to get the chance to talk to. Yeah, she's wonderful. I loved her, too. How could you not love someone who, when you killed a chicken, she wanted to bury the feed. And the bats, right? It was crazy.

She had a bat cemetery. She had a bat cemetery. Pet cemetery for all of the pets. Oh, yeah. She had a pen cemetery, wherever one we kill, sure. Yeah. So, you'll know this. Is that true? So Jan now is 76. Is she the the most mature female in the Survivor?

You know what, T-Bird? You were the one that told me about Jake. I did not know that off the top of my head. Jake, what does that mean to you to be the oldest surviving survivor, as T-Bird put it? Well, I didn't think anything about it. I just knew I was going to win that game.

I was ready for it. Yeah. Listen, I've been doing triathlons. I had been in the backwoods more than anybody out there. I mean, when you hunt in Siberia, you're hunting in remote lands. Yeah. And, I mean, I'd been through all that stuff before. So that just, I wasn't, I was planning on winning that game at that point, for sure.

Yeah. But I loved all the people on that show. No question about it. So, Jake, what Rob was wondering is now that you are the, Most mature, the living, oldest mature, living survivor, how does that feel? Well,

how do you feel about that? Well, I'm still not mature. I'm still not as mature as I ever want. I still have lots of fun. I guarantee you. Yeah. I'm never going to get old. How do you feel about it?

Jake, where is your old adventure hat? Because, per what I think I read about you, every time you watch Survivor before you were a cat, you had your old adventure hat on. I did. Where is it? Is that it behind you? No, that hat wore completely out.

It's in the garage. And it's stapled to, well, I think somebody offered me $250 for that hat. I should have sold it. I mean, it's just out in the garage stapled up to something. But it's out there. No, I've got one, two, three, four hats up on my wall here, and they're all really nice hats. I'll wear them often.

I like to wear a cowboy hat. I'm still a cowboy. Jake, your book that T-Bird was holding up, Shaping My Hat, where does that phrase come from? What is it about shaping your hat? I just was trying to figure out exactly what would be the ideal cover

or the title for my book. And the title was, that hat had been on my head through lots of places. I mean, I usually wore the same hat when I hunted. And that hat had been downstream. It had been, it had fallen out of canoes. It had, you know, one time I was riding on a horse and the hat was stripped off my head by one of the branches that I went under when I was looking back at my mule train. I mean, that hat had been everywhere, and it had been a part of me all that time.

So I said, I'm just going to call this shape in my hat. It's the hat that I wore all through my life. And it's sad that that thing's so worn out today, but after Survivor, it took it on the chin, on the survivor for sure. Well, Jake, you didn't comment. I want to explain when I said, he called you Jake the Snake, how you. you got that name on Survivor? How I got what name? Survivor?

Jake the Snake? That's not my name. I've been called that ever since I was a kid. Jake the Snake or Jake the fake or Jake the something, you know. Somebody's always calling me something. I didn't care. What I was reading about is when you were trying to convince the others that if they didn't get Brian out of the game, he was going to win the game.

that's exactly right and from then from there they started calling you Jake the snake because I guess for some reason they weren't trusting what you were telling them that's exactly right too the idiots they should have listened to me yeah

so I'd love to ask you about you know you ended up you were there the last of your tribe with all the people from Chewy Gunn you ended up voting for Brian over

Clay. Did you ever look back at that decision and feel like I wish I would have gone the other direction? Are you kidding me? I had a hard time with Clay. Clay was one of those guys that was the first in the food line but didn't

never bring anything to the food line. Yeah. So I really didn't like Clay. Bless his heart. I mean, he's passed away now and I hate to say anything bad about him, but I just didn't care for him. Yeah. And then he started making fun of me one time when I was telling a true story.

Yeah. I mean, he came up with a story that just blew me away. He said, man, when I was a kid, we would steal cars and drive them over people's lawns. And I thought, you ought to be in jail. But, you know, bless his heart, he's passed away now. His beautiful wife has passed away. I love Clay, but doggone, it was hard to love him on that show. This show is sponsored by Better.

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia. control. Learn more at sloor.com and ask your family eye care professional for SLOR Stellis lenses at your child's next visit. Jake, didn't they call you or say that you favored coach Benjamin Wade with your stories? Well, that was Clay's idea. He was always coming up with something to kind of malt my stories. Big old Jake, big old wild. But the tall deal was they were all true. Every story I told was true. Yeah. So, well, yeah, go ahead to you, Bert. I was going to say we're talking about some of the players that you played with on your season. You had

just some wonderful characters out there. And one of the characters we've got here, too, also, that her first impression of you is, even though she didn't spend much time with you, her first impression is priceless. Rob, if you'll play that one. You got to be good. Hello, Jake, my darling. Happy birthday. Congratulations on being the

oldest living survivor. So this is my story of Jake. Jake and I really haven't talked very much, but I'm going to tell you this. When I first saw him when they introduced the people, I said, oh, he is

fun. Whoa. But he was given that Sean Connery like type fun. I swear, I've never seen a man saw and pepper that fine in my life. So, Jay, you want to tell you this. You are still, to me, the finest man on Survivor. Wow.

So happy birthday. Enjoy being the oldest living survivor and the finest. Living Survivor. Look at there. You're making me cry. How about that. And enjoy the rest of your summer.

And I love you. Love you too, very. Happy birthday, Jake. Thank you. How sweet. How sweet. Very sweet. She brought tears to my eyes with that.

I didn't even know she liked me. Yeah. Finest living survivor. Yeah. That should be the title of the next book. Oh, you think? Yes. Could be.

Is that okay? Could be. I'm still kicking. Yeah. But you realize I've had five bypasses, don't you? I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Five.

Five. Yeah. I guess I was really close to death. I've been hiking every day at Tyler State Park. Not just hiking. I was running six miles every day. and all of a sudden one day I got this feeling and me that wasn't right

and I ended up in the hospital and it took them a while because the first thing they did was just do my blood pressure and all that stuff and said man you're in perfect condition and then they said they did something else some other tests and said you can't leave this hospital and they ended up they took my heart out

put it on the thing anyway it was fun I guess it was fun I was asleep It makes a good story to talk about now, doesn't it, Jake? Yeah, that's a good one to tell, but I'm telling you, I made it through that one. Okay, thanks to Jenny, she was taking good care of me after it was over. Wouldn't let anybody come in to see me. She said, no, he's got a rest. And, boy, she took care of me.

Gave me milkshakes every day. Well, even with all that, again, you seem like you're doing great. And I'm so curious to know that do you feel like that you have a secret or something that you attribute this to, that to be 84 and seemingly have all of your, you know, be as sharp as ever, look great, feel great? What do you chalk it up to? Well, I chuck it up. I ride a bicycle, a stationary bike every morning for 45 minutes, every day. ever never miss a day and i ride that thing i used to run i used to swim i mean i've been through everything you can think of you know and i've always been at very athletic so that's one thing i do

is i do that exercise every day so yeah and i eat right jenny takes care of me there i mean she's such a good cook you know she knows what to cook and she knows what not to eat yeah Let me talk about your Jenny. So I know you've experienced lots and lots, lots, lots of highs in Survivor. One of the highs that you've talked about in the past is having Jenny come out and be with you. So now might be a great time if she's willing to bring her on. I want to hear about her experience out there on the island with you and what she had to do to be there with you. Yeah, let me just set this up also.

Right here. Okay. I'll bring her right in where you can see her. And here's Jake's amazing wife. And so they did in Survivor Thailand. They did something that they had never done before. They brought out all of the loved ones. And they said, hey, great news.

If your loved ones, you want to see the Survivor players. Okay, there's a food challenge. All the survivors were ready to do it. They were ready to eat the disgusting gross bugs. And they said, no, no. no, no, you're not going to eat them. Your loved ones are going to be the people who are going to compete in the challenge. And I remember, this will always be burned in my brain, Jenny.

These were not like little ladybugs or anything that was like a gummy worm. These were big, juicy, giant insects. Right. It was awful. I couldn't believe it when Jeff Probes said that. oh it's not about you eating it's about your loved ones i thought oh my god so yeah i mean i seem like i ate so many and the worst thing i ate was that big old water water bug yeah oh my god because it just you know you bite into it and it squirt it now you know why they call it a waterbug yeah

she hates those things i don't like sure yeah but jake yeah but jake do you know how lucky you are how much this woman must love you? Because guess what? You know, my wife would have been like Brian's wife. I hate to say it. She would have said, you know what, check please. I'm leaving. And you know what?

Jake got a lot of fan mail after Survivor. And I can't tell you how many of them said exactly what you just said. There is no way my wife would eat bugs. No. No. I looked at Jake when we got out there and I could see that for some reason he didn't look like he fit with that group that he was with. I didn't know

they don't tell us anything. I didn't know he was the only survivor. I mean, the only one left in his tribe. But I thought I got to do everything I can to be able to spend 24 hours with him. And Jenny, you did it willingly. You didn't even have to

get threatened like Helen threatened her husband that he had to do it. Listen, she started eating those things. I knew she could get by the ants, that wouldn't be a big deal. She's got such determination. But when she got that water roach and it squirted out across the room,

I thought, who is that person? That's not Jenny. Who is that person? Oh my gosh, it was amazing. Yeah, it was pretty awful. And then she went through some of those other bugs that, man, that was. You know, when we got ready to do those live grub worms, you know, everything else was, except the water words, was cooked.

And when he put those live grub worms in front of us that were crawling around on that plate, I thought, I looked at Jake, and from a distance, you know, we were far enough apart, but he said, swallow them whole. And that's the only way I could have gotten to the finals, because if I'd have done like Linda and the other guys, they tried to chew them up, I just popped them in there and swallowed them whole. That's the reason, Jim and I both did that, and that's the reason we both ended up. you know in the finals do you still watch the shows with jake

yes and now they don't do the loved ones visit so much on the new seasons but did it bother you where for and then all these years then they just bring them out and they're like here's your loved one go hug them that's it you just you just get to see them yeah that was really kind of when they told us after we were on the first thing and jeff prope said you know if if you don't win you're not

you're going to go home. You're not going to get to see him. You're not going to hug him. You're not going to do anything. And all of us were going, oh, my God, we came all this way. And we can't even see them. We can't hug them if we don't win. So that was pretty just devastating.

So when they decided to bring us back the second time, that was just so amazing to me to be able to hug Jake and give him a kiss and be able to, you know, that was a long time. that he, you know, that he was gone and not being a thing. Yeah, she started to give me a kiss, came running out and started to give me a kiss. And I said, honey, I hadn't brushed my teeth in 33 days. And she planted one on me, and then I got to thinking, well, what's this girl been eating? But Jenny, just to be able not to just be there, but to participate and be active in the whole experience.

I mean, that is really, what a memory for you. it was you know I felt so blessed to be able to share that with Jake because I think I was one of the few people that was able to share as much with Jake about Survivor as any but any of the loved ones and so it really meant a lot to me to be a part of you know what he was involved in and everything so I really cherish that you know I got to go on some of the shows that he went on afterwards like the morning show they invited me to come on And so it was, it was really kind of cool for me to be able to do that. Now, Jenny, how do you respond to, we just found out that Jake earned the title of the finest living survivor from Gondia. That's pretty cool, isn't it? I didn't even know she liked me. Yeah. Yeah.

That was sweet. That was awfully sweet. Yeah, and that's the way I feel about him. So it's really, really so cool that somebody. now you're happy other people are catching on finally right right he's a good guy you know and he's awesome at 84 oh my gosh yeah you know i mean i look at him sometimes you don't even look 60 what do you mean you're 84 yeah so how long have you two been married for 30 years and we dated for seven years before we got married so i tried to get her to marry me for seven years and she would never do it

She said, no, I want you to go out and date. I've been married before, see. And she said, I want you to go out and marry, date a bunch of these young girls and get that out of your system. I dated one, and that was it. Wow. Is that the secret to the happy marriage, Jenny, that you tell him go out and date these younger women and then we'll get married?

I have no idea. Absolutely. Because, you know, so many times these guys don't go out. and, you know, sold their oaths or whatever. You should write a book, Jenny. Yeah, I know. I really could. Yeah.

Because that worked. I mean, he, you know, he didn't want to do that, but I said, you got to do that. Yeah. Forget Jake's next book. I want to get this book. Jenny's book. Yeah. But Jenny, that's a cool thing.

You have been such, I mean, from this book, this is a great book. It'll bring tears to you. It'll make you laugh. it'll do everything. But when you read this, Jenny has been such a big support for Jake through so many ups and downs in his life. So, you know, Jenny, you're a rock star.

Did you bond with any, did you bond with any other family members that were out there that you, have you stayed in touch with any of them? You know, Linda Jordan was, she and I, she was my favorite. Clay's wife, yeah. And we kind of made a bond together.

and we emailed and stuff a little bit after Survivor, you know, and she'd send me pictures and I sent her pictures. But, you know, we did that probably because the guys, remember all the charities that they would do after Survivor? There's so many of them. And Jake did that for like eight years, I think. So there were a couple of times that she was there the same time I was on some of these charity events. And it was, she was a really cool, cool lady and I really liked her.

You mentioned about Helen. I think Helen told a lot of different food stories, didn't she, out there? Jake? Didn't you talk about food a lot? Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Helen talked about food the whole time we were out there. Drove me totally wacko.

I mean, I lost 36 pounds on that show. I was hungry. And she would start talking about how she baked all this stuff. Her recipes. And everybody, that's wonderful. seemed to be enjoying it, except me. I thought that was just pathetic. Man, I'm starving to death, and she's talking about all this great food.

Here we go. Here's Helen. Hey, Jake. Hey, a little bird told me it was your birthday. So, remembering how much you loved on Survivor when we were in the dirt in Thailand, me talking about recipes, I know you just couldn't get enough of that. So I decided I'm going to do you a soup to nuts dinner. I've got lots of stuff from my garden this year.

I've got all my cookbooks out. And I came across some really great recipes. You and I, that's my gift to you. You and I are going to sit down for hours. And I'm going to describe to you each recipe in detail. And we can pick from that. I will make you the best birthday cake ever. I will make you a great gourmet dinner.

I'm telling you your wish is my command. Happy birthday, Jake. Wow. How about that? I love that girl. I love her on the show. I love, but, darn, to just talk about food all the time. I get that. I get that. I didn't like to hear people

talk about food too much. Let's talk about something else. It was just like torture to do it, but, you know, Helen has all her recipes, and she looked great in the video. Oh, yeah, I thought she was great. Well, she was wonderful. I loved Helen and still do. I mean, every now and then I talk to her, we just don't communicate that much.

Or I don't with all the people that roll my shows. I guess I should. But I'm doing something else all the time. Jake, who else have you kept in touch with from Survivor Thailand over the years? Well, you know, Ken the Copp was one of my favorites. I loved Kim the Copp. I thought he was just Magnificson. Ken Stafford.

And we stayed in contact for a long time. Rob, I didn't realize Rob was as good an athlete as he was. Yeah. We haven't stayed in touch very much. But Helen, I probably have talked to more than most of them. And some of them, though, I've talked to. So you mentioned Rob, and you were involved in your tribe in one of the most famous moments from the early days of Survivor.

And it was really a moment that changed the show a lot where your tribe had multiple people getting disqualified from the competition because they weren't following the instructions on the attack zone and when to engage. And then there was that very famous moment where Rob ends up choking Clay, which was like a huge moment in the show. What were you thinking, as you were watching, your handpicked team falling apart

in that challenge? Well, at that time, I didn't know Clay. Yeah. So later on, you would say, okay, well, maybe Rob had a point. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to get in that challenge. They didn't want me in that challenge, but I would have been good in that challenge. I was pretty tough back then. I'm not sure I want to choke somebody. Now, the challenge, Jake, that you're not big on throwing challenges to get anybody off, was that

to get Rob off? Why did we get Rob off? Yeah, I was wondering when y'all threw a challenge, who are y'all trying to get off? Was it Rob? With two Bs? Do you know Rob? Jed. Oh, Jed. I was to get

dead off. Huh? Why? Why did you want to get them? Jed was the youngest guy on my tribe. I think I picked him rather last, but he was a superior athlete.

And you could tell by looking at his body, the guy looked like a, you know, somebody you wanted to be like. But, man, he had an interesting persona. He knew everything. I mean, he's the youngest guy out there, but he knew everything. And I was the oldest guy out there, and I knew I knew more than he did about camping, but he wouldn't ever let me tell anybody anything. They'd say, hey, Jake, would you teach us how to do a fire without matches? Sure. I'll show you. Jed wouldn't let me do it. You know, it's like, no, we don't need to do. that. I can do that, you know. Everything. So anyway, Jed and I didn't really, we didn't really gel that much. I was older. He was younger. He knew more than I did for sure, and he hadn't

been camping near as much as I had. So that's it. If he said something nice about me, I could say something a lot nice about him, too. He was a superior athlete. Did really well in a all our challenges. I should have kept him around longer, that's for sure. So I know Sheehan had a big part to do with your game. Do you think if Sheean had been treated, I think she thought she was treated unfairly by the tribe. And so she wanted to jump ship a little bit too soon, I guess. Do you think that cost you your game in the long run? Yes, it absolutely did. She wanted to jump ship. some of the other girls didn't seem to like her for certain reasons, and I never knew what they were.

I love she, and I thought she was great. And she was, you know, she was one of the team, I thought. But some of the others just had a problem with her, and I don't know what the problem really was. But anyway, did you know that she wanted to marry me? I know. No. No. No, it came out. It came out in some news article.

Came out on the Enquirer or something like that. What? This article. We loved it. Yeah. Okay. We're getting some good information here then, Jake. Okay. I said, we're getting some good information here. I know you really liked her.

You said she worked really, really hard. She was a hard worker. She was a hard worker. I think, you know, it was a thing, you know, she was Oriental. She was used to eating beaks or feet of the chicken, stuff like that. And we, none of us were used to that. And I think people that just kind of, it was different. It was just a different setup.

Yeah. But I loved her. She. She and I had to come. They weren't eating it. I'm sorry. You weren't eating it. Who cares what she eats?

I wasn't eating it. Yeah, it was better for me. The more she ate, the more I could get of a pulley bone or something. So, Jake, it's interesting, too, that she and, I think this is right, Rob, she ends the only one that has gone back to play a second time from your season. Yeah. That's right. That's right.

I don't know. Maybe they just didn't like any of the rest of us. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a great question because, you know, I had been messaging with a big Survivor Superfan and just a, you know, a real observer of Survivor in the culture. I asked Evan Ross Katz. I said, I'm talking to Jake Billingsley. What would you, what do you want to know from him? And he said, could you ask Jake about that why do you? you feel like that Thailand as a season so that only Xi'an has come back and people haven't always been, you know, remembering it as much as some of the other seasons. What do you attribute that to? I have no idea. You know, I thought it was the greatest season that they've ever had. I had a wonderful time out there.

I really don't know, except, you know, there was a lot of friction early on between Ted and Gondia. And that might have had something to do with it. Yeah. I really don't know. I feel like also part of it was that the show really did not embrace Brian as one of the winners of the show early on. What was your opinion of Brian? Obviously, you voted for him. Did you like Brian?

I liked Brian. It was really interesting. I had, for some reason, I thought maybe I might have a chance to win in that game. And so when we finally merged our tribes, we had a fake merge first. Sure. Do not assume. Brian and I went out together in a kayak. Incidentally, one of the guys turned.

turned his camera over out there, one of the, anyway, we saved him. We pulled him out of the water, but Brian and I were good friends. I mean, I like the guy. And I said, Brian, I think what I would like to see happen. This was that well after the merge is you and I can maybe end up, and I don't care if you win or, you know, I'd like to win. But if we don't, let's just try to do it together. and he was pretty, pretty savvy about that.

He, oh, yeah, yeah, we will. He was pretty cool, I thought. I like Brian. I think he knew he didn't want to be sitting next to you. His better chance would be. His better odds would be against Clay. I don't know. Who knows?

Who knows? That game is so interesting. The direction that goes back and forth all over the place, you never really know how you stand. But, you know, if you're pretty popular, you're going to get voted off. If everybody likes you, they said, you know, I don't know how people win that game two or three times. One time, yeah, I think you can get by. Jake, there was a moment towards the end of the season where you guys had this challenge at night and everybody had torches.

And stop me if I'm getting anything wrong. And Penny turned on you in that challenge, right? she put out your torches in the challenge that did you take anything personally from that that oh absolutely not penny was penny was one of my favorites for first she was really nice to look at i mean you know you got nice looking girl and she was smart and so we were really good friends but i told her i said penny you know you've got to you got to do something for yourself now i don't what it is or how you should do it or whether you should talk. She and Clay were really close.

I said, maybe you ought to be talking to Clay and try to get him to work with you. And I'll try to talk with Brian and try to get him to work with me. But you've got to try to stay in this game and get some of them out. So, no, it didn't bother me at all. She was just playing the game. And I love Penny. And I'm sorry she didn't get further in the game. Yeah. Okay. Penny didn't get on your nerves. What about McGilla the monkey? Did the monkey that would raid the camp bother you?

Yes. I didn't. One of the things that I didn't like about Survivor was we couldn't kill anything, you know? We could have eaten a lot of stuff on that island because there were always hogs and things like that like they did in some of the. other shows where they could kill the hog, and all we could do is just swim out there and get some clams or whatever and bring them in and eat that. But I mean, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to hot. I wanted to show them that I could kill a pig, but no, I couldn't do that. And then I caught, when I brought in a big old clam, I think it was about this big. And I was really excited bringing that thing in. And they said, one of the producers said, well, you got to put it back.

And I said, what do you mean? Why? He said, that's an endangered species. You got to put it back. I said, man, that'd feed us for a week. You know, that's a big clam. And anyway, I had to put it back. But that's just part of the game.

I mean, it's kind of like something would float in that we could use like ropes. Oh, my gosh, the hardest part of our deal was we had to build our shelter. And in order to build a shelter, you had to make your own roads. And you had to go out and on Thailand, they wouldn't let us use fronds that were alive. They made us get them that were already on the ground and flat. And you'd go out and pull up a bunch of fronds that were on the ground, and there'd be snakes or whatever, and lots of bugs crawling around on you and getting on you, mosquitoes and everything else.

So, anyway, that's the way the game is. You know, a cup would float in and you'd think, I can use this cup. No, you can't use a cup. You gotta make something else out of it. So it made it tough, but it was fun. I love that. At Grey Goose, we believe that pleasure is a necessity. That's why we craft the world's number one premium vodka in France,

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and we're making it just the way you like. Handcrafted with real ingredients like our real pumpkin sauce, and rich espresso out, sprinkled with pumpkin spice. It's full of real flavors you'll keep coming back for. Made just for you at Starbucks. When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from Winners, I started wondering.

Is every fabulous item I see from Winners? Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. Are those from Winners? Ooh, are those beautiful gold earrings? Did she pay full price? Or that leather tote? Or that cashmere sweater? Or those knee-high boots?

That dress. That jacket. Those shoes? Is anyone paying full price for anything? Stop wondering. Start winning. Winners find Fabulous for less. So, Jake, because you had watched all the seasons up to yours, you pretty much told the tribe when props moved y'all on the same island, this is probably not going to be a merge. This is too early, right? But nobody listened to you.

No, no, they didn't. They didn't listen, but, you know, everybody thought it was a merge and maybe I was wrong, you know. I don't know. He didn't say merge. That got us, though, and then that, you know, when Cheyenne moved over to the other tribe and voted with them, it was tough. Yeah. Rob, this might be a good time for that last one. Okay.

But, you know, I never did go in that show. I went in the show for the adventure. And for the fun of it, that's the reason I went in the show. I didn't go in there expecting to win that show, but I hoped I could win it. I mean, a million dollars would have been great for me in my retirement, but, you know, it didn't happen. Heck, I can always make money doing something. Yeah. Okay, we got another video for you from a friend of yours.

Oh, yeah. Hi, Jake. It's been so long. I miss you, and I love to catch up in person. But I thought I'd drop in and say, hello. I'm on my way to Burning Man, so I could make a... Burning Man. But Teresa asked for a memory of us from Survivor Days,

and one of the most vivid memories I have is when you asked me to hold a chicken while you wrung his neck during the show. And I remember just thinking in my mind, be cool, Shian, just act like you know what you're doing. I acted like I knew what I was doing, but I was actually really freaked out. Um, that was a really fun, fun memory. Um, I just remember you being very kindly during the show. And I would love to reminisce the person.

So I hope you're having fun. Take care. Bye. Okay. Oh, she's wonderful. I like Cheyenne. She was a honey, I thought. Did you think Sheehan knew what she was doing when you were going to kill the chicken and she

held it? Well, you got to understand. And the first chicken we had, I popped his head off right real fast. When that, it was a rooster. And when that rooster crowed, I was up there and I popped his head off and we were hungry and we were going to get food. Now, then the producers came to me and said, we need to get that on film and you did it at night. I said, you think I want to be killing the chicken? Yeah.

with people on watching international TV, and they said, we're going to have to. So I decided I'd come up with some kind of little deal to honor the chicken and whatever. Any whatever I did, I can't remember now. But anyway, yeah, she held the chicken or grabbed it for me, and I twisted his head off there after making a little speech about how wonderful the chicken is to give his life for us. Yes, very nice. Jake, how big of an advantage was it that the other tribe had the cave? Had the what?

Cave. Oh, my gosh, it was a tremendous advantage in that. That I had to blame on me. Why, he asked me, which do you want? Do you want sunset or do you want sunrise? Now, I should have known that. The shade is so nice in the morning. It's so nice in the morning.

The sun is so hot in the evening. And why I did that? Because, you know, it's like if I'm going to buy a house, I want my backyard to face east so I don't get that sun in the afternoon when it's hot. I want to sit on my back patio and enjoy it. So, yeah, I mean, it was a big advantage. Don't beat your sense.

How could you know? from sunrise or sunset that they were going to get the cave. We didn't know that it was a cave. He just asked, do you want a sunrise or sunset? Yeah. And I picked, like a dope,

I'd pick sunset, you know. But Jake, the cave was full of bats, rats, and snakes, and y'all were close to the water source. And pee sometimes. And what? Sometimes they would pee in the cave. Oh, my gosh, it smelled. like it yeah that was not too fun but anyway but uh i forgot where i was going with that their water

was a pretty good way from where they were for certain and i searched all over for our water i didn't find it uh some of the other people found it i think it was rob and uh yeah the girl from arkansas boy she was a honey wouldn't it been jett wouldn't jett found the water source since he knew everything? Didn't what? Wasn't Jed? Know where the water source is? Didn't you say he knew everything?

Did Jed find the water source? It might have been Jed. It was probably Jed and somebody else. Yeah. Jake, did they ever call you for any of the other returny seasons that they did over the years? You know, I was kind of hoping that I would get called on one of those. I was having back surgery, and I ran into Jeff Probst up in New York or someplace. He said, how are you doing?

I said, well, I'm having back surgery, and that's the only one I thought that I might have had a chance to get on. And I did. I had back surgery back then. Yeah. I just hoped that I would be thought of as an all-star, but I wasn't an all-star. I was just a player. Jake you are an all-star you are an all-star

so Jake you just mentioned Probst give me your one word to describe Jeff Probst well one word what to describe Jeff oh Jeff Probst I love Jeff Proops how could you not love I loved him he was great

love love he was great yeah could you describe him though in one word what would be your one word to describe him Describe him authentic that's it friendly I thought he was just

fantastic and he's good and he still is I mean that that show is amazing because of Jeff Probs so Jake who do you think

when Probs decides to retire who do you think would be the best person to take over to do what to take over for Jeff when he retired Oh, I've never thought about that. I can't stand to thought of him retiring. But if the game

keeps going on, I guess he's going to have to get one sooner or later. I don't know. How about me? I would love to do that. Yeah. Jake, how would you change Survivor if you were the new host? Oh, shoot. I don't know. Boy, what a question. I've never even thought about that. I'll tell you what, I would love to go to that island there on now. Fiji. I mean, my gosh, there's no snakes there, there's no articulated pythons or there's nothing. That's the cleanest.

I've always wanted to go to that place, always, my whole life. You see, what's that movie out that South Pacific? And you think about, you know, all the songs of South Pacific, you think, man, I'd love to go there. Never had enough money to go. But, yeah, I would love to do it. I think he's got the right idea now. But who would, you'd probably be good at that. Who, T-Bird?

You. Listen, I have a great job. I've got a great gig, Jake. Good. Yes, he would. Yes. That would be my gig. Hey, so Jake, so Jake, would you change it from 36 days?

Wait, 36? Was it 39, right? He was 39, and then they made it 26. Yeah, would you go back to 39 days, or would you keep it 26 days? I don't know. 39 days, I lost 36 pounds, you know, and now they're getting to eat more. I don't know. 26 is probably long enough for that show.

I imagine some of the older people would like to see it go back to 39. To me, they haven't lost anything the way they're doing it now. It's still pretty good. Jake, are you excited for Survivor 50 that's coming up next year? You know, I hadn't really thought about it. I know that 49's coming up. Yeah. There's some good people in that one.

I know some of them. Oh, you know people that are going to be on Survivor 49? Well, I just hope I know some people that are in it, but maybe not. Oh, okay. Well, Jake, so I know one of the Survivor players that you have said in the past that you really, really like. a lot is Ozzy. How did you know that?

I just know that. She's very good. I loved Ozzy. I thought he was one of the best survivors we have ever had. I mean, that boy could monkey up a tree and get those coconuts like crazy. Whether he can still do that now or not, I have to watch. We'll find out. So, Jake, Ozzie's going to be on 50, Survivor 50.

He is. Yes. Well, that's wonderful. He'll be great. Yes, we can see if he can still monkey up a tree. I know. He's absolutely fantastic. I love Ozzy. And I always wanted to swim against him. You know, I was a swimmer in college, and I always thought I could beat Ozzy in the water. And he and I were always talking about it. I was telling him, I'll take you out there to the pool, and I'll show you how. of swim. And we would be going backwards and forwards when we'd go to one of these meetings

somewhere. Oh, wow. I loved him. I thought he was great. He could probably beat me. I know he could beat me today. I mean, I had been in the water in 15 years. Jake, I'm surprised you don't still swim. Because I know in this book, you were, you know, quite a swimmer, quite a swimmer. So as far as just getting more mature, you must not have a pool available. I don't have a pool available. That's the only reason I don't now. When we lived in Arizona and we lived there for seven years, I swim nearly every day, at least 400 yards every day.

And sometimes a mile a day, Jenny and I'd go to the pool and everybody would be almost out of the pool, tired. I'm still out there swimming. I like to swim. I've competed forever. I don't know whether you can see some of that. probably Kate, I've got a bunch of ribbons up here that I still got from swimming. And I swim at A&M.

Jake, I think you have touched so many people. I mean, with everything you've done and just your character, I just wanted to tell you a couple of things. Just, again, this book, let me show it to you again. I've had it for a long time. In the book, it talks about how your mom used to read, the little engine that could and how that really affected you through the years pushing through pushing through so i have a i have a new grandbaby now she's 15 months old so because of you and this is because of you

i bought this book the little thing that could to start reading to my baby to my baby girl just for motivation and encouragement because of you oh that's not i love that book i know you do that was my favorite Yeah, and I've got one right up here on my shelf right now. I think it's neat. Also, I wanted to tell you, you had mentioned Ken Stafford, how y'all were such good friends. I did talk to, got in touch with Ken before we did this, and he wanted me to tell you that he doesn't even bother considering you a friend. He is, this is quote, he is, from the moment I met him, part of my family, and so is his wife

and kids. Jake is what I wish and hope people were as a whole, but unfortunately, they are not. Great guy. Oh, darn it. You got me. So Jake, a lot of times I don't think people realize. My people are touched for just maybe even sometimes small things. I mean, you've touched him. Again, you've touched me just, you know, reading and knowing you has touched me.

And you're an amazing, amazing man. And that lady beside you is equally as wonderful. Yeah, she's everything I'm not, boy, I'll tell you. Go her back in. Give me Jenny again. Get Jenny. Hey, girl. There she is.

That is a nice thing for you to say. And you know what? It is so cool for me to hear those things from everybody to know who Jake really is because he is one of a kind and one of the most awesome man I've ever met. And I feel so blessed to be able to be married to him. And he makes me feel so good every single day. It makes me feel beautiful. He makes me feel loved. I mean, he is an amazing husband and an amazing man, and it's really warms my heart.

Look at you, Jake. Oh, no, Jake. Beautiful. Y'all are a beautiful, beautiful couple. And you're, again, the ups and downs and everything y'all have gone through in your 30-plus year. It's a beautiful, beautiful love story. Thank you. Thank you.

We feel very blessed. Yeah. Thank you both so much for coming and chatting with us. This was so nice to get to catch up and hear more about your incredible story together. Thank you guys. How wonderful. And oh, my gosh, thank you. Jake really gets emotional.

Yeah. But, you know, he wears his heart on his sleeve. And thank you guys for having him and having us. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Yeah. We can't wait for the new book. Yeah.

It's named Koo. Right now, the name of it is Kugan. And it's a cool name. So we're hoping we can keep that name. Okay. It's a great story. It's a great love story in a Western. And guess what the female lead is?

Guess what her name is. Jenny. Jenny. It better be Jenny. Mm-hmm. So, Jake, is this book still available to be purchased or to be gotten? When we got that book, we ended up with 4,000 copies. We've sold most of them, but I still have a few that I've hung on.

Yeah, we have about a hundred. So if somebody really wanted one, we could mail it to them. But we've taken them off of the market because we have so few laughs. It's really funny how I get a lot of public speaking before Survivor, after Survivor, during, after Survivor especially. I mean, I spoke California, Louisiana, all over college towns and stuff like that. and that's where I sold my book. I took it off the market and just took my books with me

and I would sell them there when I spoke. That's a good way to sell books, I'm telling you. So anyway, I sold about $4,000, but I've got a few left, I think. If somebody wants one, I could get one to them. Okay. Well, all right. Very good. Jake, Jenny, thank you both so much.

This was so cool to get to catch up today. Thank you. Wasn't planning on crying at the end, but you got me. That's what T-Bird does. That's her magic. I know. She got it. She's got it.

Good luck, guys. All right. Thank you so much, Jake. Take care. I can kiss to both of you. All right, T-Bird, there you have it. There's Jake Billingsley and Jenny. And what a great job that you did of getting all those people together from Thailand,

talking to Ken, I think you really made Jake feel very special. Rob, Jake is very special. Him and Jenny are such a unique couple. I'm so, so glad we got him on right here at his birthday. His birthday likes us was like maybe a week or so ago. And at the end, you know, he got a little emotional. I was emotional with this one because, and I'm not going to get emotional here. I've wondered if I decided if I wanted to mention this or not.

and then I decided that I do. This is a list of my talking with T-Bird. I've got like all these little pieces of paper. But those are like your podcast notes on post-its? No, these are actually just names. These are just names of people that come to me that I think I want to have on. Okay.

And this is the first, this is the very first page. And the very first page was Jane Hammond Bright and right behind Jane. is Jake Billingsley. And of course, you know, I wasn't able to do Jane. So, you know, I think with a lot of these old school survivors, of course, we're all getting more mature. But these are people that have touched, you know, touched so many of us for different reasons

that are such memorable, wonderful characters that brought, you know, so much to the show. And so it was great to actually to have Jake on today. Yeah. Okay, well, keep going in your post-its. I'll get you a legal pad. No. I'm worried you're going to lose one of the postings. Hey, do you know, I'm not sure, but you'll know this.

We've done quite a few people from Thailand. I'm talking with Tiberg. But this is so neat. Remember who our very, very first one was? our very first one. So it was Helen. From Helen. Yeah.

From Tallinn. And she was, she, it took me a while even to convince her because she wasn't doing podcast, but she was our first one. From there we got Cheyenne. Mm-hmm. And then we got Gondia, not in this aura, but, you know, Gondia was, She-in was season one. I think Gandhia was season two, which was a huge.

Of talking with T-Bird, people like, no, they're going to make, T-Bird, it was season five that they were on. Wait. That people, I'm sure you're, I think you're the only one that remembers what season of talking with T-Bird it was. Everybody else is. All right, right. Yeah. So we had Helen, we had Cheyenne, we had Gondia, we had Rob with two beans.

Yes. And just so I can remember our friends here. And Rob was a big surprise for you. Yes. And Jan also. And we had Jan Gentry, yes. But Rob is the one that I got before realizing we, there was. was a no-fly list.

And he was, when I told you I had a big surprise for you, you quickly informed me you don't like surprises. So in other words, I got to get things approved. So I'll never forget that with Rob. I think Rob was the, he was season one. So I learned quickly, you don't like surprises. So I feel like that, you know, small surprises are fine that I feel like that while you, this is talking with T-Bird, you do so much work that I do feel like that I, there may be things that

you don't necessarily know behind the scenes that I might be able to, like for instance, there might be a person that you're like, hey, let's get this person, this is a great guest. And I have to tell you actually, T-Bird, that'll be the last episode of Rob is a podcast if we interview that person. And so that's where I say, just, you know, just let's talk ahead of time. Because I think that great communication is the foundation for an amazing podcast. Right. But I will say, Rob, sometimes you can have too much information. And I know there's been a few people that I've gotten that the podcast was great.

And we weren't sure what direction it might go in. Sometimes I need to, my arm twisted. But I would say, like, twist my arm first, don't just, like, surprise me. Right. I got it. Yeah. So I'll have people actually contact. Happy to talk it through with anybody you want to talk to.

People will actually contact me and want to know who's on the do not fly list. Do you know, I've never given that out. It's a very small list. I think it can be written on a post-it. Some might surprise you, though. Anyway, that was great with Jake. Yeah. And then the reason why such a list exists is because, you know what, nobody's going to email T-Bird and say,

T-Bird, why did you have this person on the podcast? But you know who's going to spend a lot of time answering messages from people? Rob. Yeah. Although, Rob, I'll tell you, I won't tell you the name. I have been contacted by people once the podcast was over with comments. So now I've got to be careful with things too. And I'm happy to start a Teresa, a T-Bone at Rob as a website.com email address.

And then we can interview whoever you want and then say any, any issues, any complaints, email T-Bone at rob has a website.com. How about feedback? Can we call it any feedback? No, they're going to go directly to you. T-Bird, thank you so much. We'll be back. I know you're working on more talking with T-Bird. What is it, season seven?

No, whoa, I did know this. We're season six. Six, like the Amazon. That's right. Six. Okay. All right. All right.

All right. Well, thank you so much. Thanks everybody for listening. We love to read your comments. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye. If you stay here and listen, your life won't ever be the same. Because we're talking with T-Bird now. bird you cannot change oh oh and things might get pretty strange