RHAP: We Know Survivor - Talking with T-Bird: Wanda Shirk

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

Talking with T-Bird: Wanda Shirk Watch the podcast on YouTube! The Survivor RHAP podcast’s “Talking with T-Bird” series is back as Rob Cesternino and co-host Teresa “T-Bird” Cooper reconnect with Survivor: Palau’s Wanda Shirk—a player whose journey remains one of the most unique in Survivor history. In this special episode, Rob and T-Bird are joined by Josh Wigler to share Wanda’s perspective on being the only Survivor castaway to leave before getting a buff, torch, or Tribal Council moment. Right from the start, Wanda opens up about the iconic schoolyard pick twist in Survivor: Palau, explaining how it felt to stand among 20 players, only to be left without a tribe due to the “men pick a woman, women pick a man” format. She details her preparation—even swimming and running to be the most ready over-50 contestant—and discusses the emotional aftermath for both herself and Jonathan, who shared her fate. The group also explores Wanda’s lasting Survivor legacy: her spontaneous songs, the creation of the fan-favorite “Wand-Off” tradition, and her ongoing love for the show despite its twists and ever-evolving format. Rob, T-Bird, and Josh dig into Survivor’s changing game structure, from Palau’s massive starting group to the fairness of modern twists, and Wanda provides a rare look at castaway camaraderie before the game truly begins. A surprise audio message from Palau’s Kobe brings back personal memories, highlighting how deeply Wanda connected with her peers in just two short days on the beach. Key moments in this episode: – Behind the scenes of Survivor: Palau’s infamous schoolyard pick twist – Wanda’s thoughts on preparing as an active, older woman for Survivor – Reflections on how game twists affect fairness and opportunity for all contestants – The origin and impact of Wanda’s musical legacy and the RHAP “Wand-Off” – Personal stories of friendship, resilience, and lessons in choosing happiness after adversity How might Survivor’s history have changed if Wanda, with her positive spirit and knack for uniting people, had made it onto a tribe? What can her journey teach fans and players alike about perspective and character in the game? Listen in for Wanda’s unforgettable Survivor perspective and discover why players and fans still sing her praises twenty years later. Chapters: 0:00 Wanda Shirk Joins Talking with T-Bird 2:49 Wanda’s Survivor Palau Journey Begins 4:02 The Schoolyard Pick Twist Explained 6:08 Lifetime Achievement for Hiking Trails 9:01 Wanda Reflects on Palau What-Ifs 12:00 Survivor’s Unfair Twists and Redemption 18:57 The Jonathan Story: Aftermath and Reactions 22:08 Survivor’s Group Dynamics and Social Challenges 24:41 Strategic Alliances Form Early in Palau 26:10 Surprise Message from Kobe to Wanda 29:13 Wanda’s Musical Legacy on Survivor 32:25 The Birth of the Survivor Wand-Off 35:28 Wanda Performs Her Survivor Rap 40:43 Wanda Watches Every Survivor Season 41:50 Favorite Seasons and Old School Twist 45:46 Bond of the Best: Strategy Philosophy 51:59 Choosing Happiness and Forgiveness Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Do you wish you could just hit Skip on the worst part? of your life? You know the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned and today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. We're some see heroes and other see egos. Bloomberg.

sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings. The end of jobs or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Yeah, that's right. Talking with T-Bird is back again.

And boy, do we have another good one for you here today? We've been on such a role with talking with T-Bird because today we're going to be talking with an icon out of Survivor Palau. Wanda Shirk has been found by this woman, my co-host, the amazing Teresa T-bird Cooper. Hello, Rob. Teabird, how are you? I'm great.

I'm excited. I'm excited that we have Wanda today. Wanda is so mysterious. She's not on any social media. Well, in that she's not on any social media. She has a landline, no cell phone. She's still a big adventure out hiking and that we were able to get her and that we pinned her down today.

It's going to be really excited. Good. Well, excited to chat with Wanda. We're coming off of such a great talking with T-Bird just a couple of weeks ago that T-Bird, if you missed it, tracked down Sue Hawke. It was so much positive feedback for the interview with Sue Hawke. I think we're going to submit it for the podcast Emmys this year, the Suhawk episode. Careful.

Oh, look. That gets a ding. Yes. Sorry, I slammed it to it. It was such a good interview. It was so wild. It's Sue Hawk. I mean, you know an interview with Sue Hawks going to be good.

Yeah. So be sure to check that out if you missed it. Anything new with you, T-Bird? No, I'm looking forward to Survivor starting up and, you know, continue. The open era. What? It's the open era. Yes, the open era.

Yeah, what does that mean to you, the open era? I just think they, I'm thinking they just had to figure up the next era. Yeah. It's kind of like a marriage, right? It's like if you're bored in your marriage, you say like, you know, we're not going to call this the open marriage. We're a little bored. We want to try new stuff. let's see what happens.

Like that's what that's, I think they called the, this is the open era. So Rob, I haven't watched many of the promos, but it seems like I heard because we were doing, talking to Wanda today, who didn't make it as far in the game as we would have liked to have seen. Sure. But did they say on some of the promos that they're going to start

and somebody might not be starting the game? I think somebody, if I had to guess, I think somebody's going to go to exile island. I don't think somebody's going to get Wanda. I think they learned their lesson on that. I'm not going to get one. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Okay. We'll, we'll see about that. Okay. But T. Bird, we have Wanda standing by. So let's go ahead and take it away. This high school English teacher from Ulysses, Pennsylvania, was one of 20, left stranded on an island in the South Pacific. She had applied for season seven, Pearl Islands with no luck. She then applied for season 10, Survivor Palau. She knew casting wanted characters. She dubbed herself wild, wacky, wise, witty, warm, and wonderful.

She interviewed in Philly, where she wowed the producers with her song, quote, Wanda, the Great Survivor, to the music of Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer. She made it to L.A., still singing. Her wacky shined. She was in. At 55 years old, she told her friends she wanted to do. to be the best prepared over 50 person ever to be on the show. She was a hiker, had backpacked a mountainous 85-mile trail alone,

a runner running half marathons and 5Ks, and a swimmer. She believed she could make it to the final four. She lived on the beach with the other 19 players for two days and was ready for anything. Well, anything that is but the twist. The schoolyard pick on the third day, unfortunately, had her and another player getting back on a boat and heading home. She was asked back for season 11, Guatemala, but production decided to go in a different direction, casting two other returnees from Palau. She is high-spirited, optimistic, energetic who boast?

I had no tribe, no buff, no torch, no tribal council, and no vote. against me. Very few players can say that. Her iconic song-filled-legacy still remains after 21 years, and now at 77 and retired, still lives a life of adventure out of the social media spotlight, playing her ukulele and spending time with her grandkids. I introduced the woman, some lovingly say, has always marched to the beat of a different drummer, the one-of-a-kind, Wanda Shirk. That was an amazing introduction. I can't believe you knew that much about me.

Yes, Rhonda. Hey, Linda. We're happy to see you. Well, Rob, I am happy to see you too. It's been a long time. Yes. We shared one night together in Olian, and I was so happy to meet you then, and I look forward to talking with you again today.

Good. Well, I'm very excited to have you here. here. And Wanda, you seem like you're doing great. I am. So for my 77th birthday, I climbed the highest mountain in the Catskills, slide mountain 4,184 feet. And it is the eastern terminus of the 584-mile Finger Lakes Trail, which I've been hiking over a period of years. So I still stay fit. Good for you. I've hiked thousands of miles of trails, and I've got more to do.

Wow. Rob, let me ask us about Wanda since she's talking about all this hiking. She got in 2018 a Life Achievement Award. Is this right from the Keystone Trails Association? Right, Juan? That is right. Yep. Yes.

For building and maintaining hiking pass as a volunteer. So she's been involved in hands-on with hiking for quite some time. I was president of Keystone Trails Association for several years. I've been president of my local Susquehannock Trail Club with about 250 members. I've been president for about 16 years. And I do a lot of hiking and trail maintaining. I really enjoy being outside. That's part of why I applied for Survivor because I was into the outdoor stuff.

And in the earlier season, it seems, well, the initial impression was that it was about outdoor survival, not just about backstabbing or the social game or whatever. I mean, that was obviously part of it too. But more of the physical element of survivors seemed to be important in the earlier years, maybe the Aussie years. That, you know, can you do it outdoors type of thing. Yeah. And you could. And I could, yes. I was prepared to do it.

And, of course, they've shortened the seasons now. So it doesn't, people don't have to survive and suffer for as long. But yes, like as T-Bird said, when I was getting ready for Survivor, I was going out to a farm pond and swimming across it back and forth and getting very used to swimming and all the challenge things that I thought I would be doing. And of course, the one challenge that I was in was when we jumped off the boat and had to swim to shore. And I wasn't the first one to the island. The first two there were Ian and Jolanda.

But I wasn't the last one either. I was kind of middle of the pack. And last were Stephanie and Jonathan. And of course, Stephanie went on to be on Survivor four times. So I can say that I beat Stephanie in the one challenge. that I was ever in. Of course, that was because she decided to jump off the boat too early, and so she had a longer distance to swim.

And some of us, most of us, rode closer to shore before we jumped into the swim. Yeah. That's story. Yeah, Wanda, if you ended up playing on the season of season 10 of Survivor, how do you think it would have gone? Well, if you played Got to play

longer, I should say. Right. I will say that Ian was once asked that question post-survivor, and he said he thought I would have done very well. And I think so too, because I'm a congenial person,

easy to get along with, low maintenance. And as I said in part of my introduction to Survivor, I came to be fun. I came to be a fun person. And I think that I would have been kept for a long time. Also, the way things were set up, I would have been on Karur tribe.

And obviously, the Ulong tribe was completely decimated. So if you were on Karor, you were sort of automatically in the top happened on the jury. Yeah. And Willard volunteered to be the first one off when Karur had to send somebody off. I wouldn't have volunteered to go off. I wanted to go the whole way. But he was ready to go and chill out where it would be easier and more comfortable.

So, yeah, I think I would have had a good shot. Although it's also true that I think when most of the players are younger players, it's difficult for the oldest player to find a niche that makes them happy to keep that person when they've got friends their own age there. Right. It was an extra challenge.

There aren't many seasons when they have players that are over 50 competing with people who are mostly in their 20s and 30s. But I know, you know, age diversity is one of the kinds of diversity they want to have. And so I was willing to play that game. I was willing. I was able to show that I was fit as well and that I think I could have been at that time. I'm a good competitive player in the challenges. And Wanda, so you had applied first for Pearl Islands. Yeah.

Right? So it's interesting that had maybe the player's been reversed, your character on Pearl Islands was Lil, right? Yes. Where we saw how far Lil made it. So did you ever replay that in your mind? Well, I think I could have outplayed her. And of course, if you remember that season,

she was voted out and then brought back in another twist. And so you never know. I mean, there were multiple twists with my season. The pickup game was a major one, but there were a couple of other twists, such as that we were not given our game closed. So it seems like there was, the third one, which doesn't come to my mind right now.

But there were three twists there in the beginning, which every season has. And so that's just all part of it. You know, I, Wanda, that when it first happened, you know, many people felt like this was unfair, that the game is Survivor and you go to Tribal Council and you get voted out. And I think that when we take a look now that that was season 10, and now we've played 40 seasons after that, and still there has not been anything else like that, where maybe that there was like a Rupert got sent to Redemption Island,

but still had a chance, like nobody has ever else been other than like a medical evacuation, and unless there's something I'm not thinking of, everybody else has gotten like, if this was, they should have sent you to Redemption Island or like they would never do that to anybody else. I think that they know that that wasn't right what happened to you. A producer came back to the Ponderosa to Luser Luzer Lodge and talked to me and said that they were very sorry to have lost a good character there in the beginning. Yeah.

And he thanked me for helping them to make one great show. And that meant a lot to me. But also, I think the original plan was that the two people that didn't get picked, Jonathan Me, the plan was to bring us back then for the next season. But because of the way Palau went, with Stephanie and Bobby John being such fan favorites, they abandoned the plan. of bringing Jonathan and me back.

I think personally, I think that was also because they didn't feel like Jonathan would want to that the experience was so tough for him. And the key thing was that Stephanie and Bobby John were such fan favorite that they just went with an alternate plan. So that was bad luck for me, but I still had a great experience and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to have been on Survivor. Wanda, I think I also saw somewhere that they were actually, before they went with Stephanie and Bobby John, they were considering you and Michael Scoopin. Yes, I did hear that too.

But anyway, Stephanie and Bobby John won the debate on that. So you talked about how, and I know for us, Rob, on Africa, you never know most, maybe with your season as well. They don't want you to know when the game is going to start. But they told y'all to put on your press clothes, right? Yes. So you all were putting on press clothes to think you were doing press, and then the game started. Yes.

And of course, that was, for me, I was a teacher. I had high school and junior high school students. I teach in a building with grade 7 through 12. So I was going to go back to school and didn't, it was very hot there in Palau, but I didn't particularly want to appear in my underwear. I had getting clothes, which they took away to inspect. And so I did take the dress off and end up playing in my slit of the last day. But that was a twist that was a difficult one for me to think through as well.

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Free of charge. BetMGEMG emigem operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Do you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better.

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and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover coffee plus on espresso.com. Sure. I saw too that they started,

some other player needed bandages, so they started cutting up your. dress that you were wearing? Yes. I volunteered that. Willard cut his finger pretty badly with the machete. And so he needed to have it bandaged. And I just said, hey, bring that machete over here.

We'll cut my slip for some bandaging. That nurse wand experience, I thought, should help me. But that didn't get shown on TV. Of course, no, I was only on for the first half hour of the show. and when they were trying to do so much with 20 people in a one-hour episode where they had to take Jonathan and me out in the first half and then Jolanda out in the second half, there was just so much that couldn't have been shown,

including my bandaging of Willard's finger, which was pretty serious, and he did end up betting stitches in that finger. So, yeah, that was another little... You and Yolanda became really close, to sit she was voted out behind you. But Yolanda has said that you're one of the strongest women I think she's ever met.

And it was a shame you didn't get a chance to play. Jolanda and I did become good friends. And actually, one of the reasons that I applied for Survivor was that I wanted to enjoy the diversity of pasting that it would have. I live in a rural community that's just simply all white. and I was looking forward to meeting people who were from cities and who were different racial and ethnic backgrounds and so forth. So it was a great experience.

I'm fortunate for Jolanda that she was the first one to be actually voted out. But we became good friends in the 39 days that we spent together. And I subsequently have gone a couple times down to Houston to visit her. And she came up here to Potter County, the Pennsylvania Wiles. here in Pennsylvania. I took her for a 14-mile hike, and she said never again to that. And she had trained to be an Olympic athlete.

So I'm glad she felt that I brought strength, physical strength to the game and wouldn't have been a weakness in challenges had I had more opportunity. Wanda, what about Jonathan? Do you keep up with him at all? I feel like he's somebody that, I feel like we know so little about Jonathan.

As you know, when people are out of the game, they are sent on a trip. Yes. Jonathan actually got permission to go home. Oh, he was very depressed. It was very hard for him to accept what happened. I feel very bad about that. I could come to grips with what happened to me because I could fall back on the fact that I was older or when you've got 10 guys going on a camping trip,

they might love their mother, they might love their English teacher, but that's not who they're going on a camping trip with. Jonathan, on the other hand, was a good-looking young man, and it was hard for him to understand why he didn't get chosen. Now, I think there are some reasons for it.

One was that when he first got to the island, of course, we were in our press clothes as Sea Bird said. So he had on an expensive pair of pants and a good belt, and he commented on, you know, when he cut his pants off to make shorts because it was so hot, he said, well, there goes a $600 pair of pants and a $300 belt or something like that. So first of all, that, well, rich kid, like he doesn't need to be in this game. But secondly, Kobe, being our gay guy.

was very eager to find a target to put on somebody else's back. I think Kobe was kind of spreading the word that, you know, when it comes time to vote somebody out, might think about Jonathan. And there was also, like, Jeff Wilson and Kim Mullen, maybe Jonathan was trying to be part of that friendship. and maybe some people just decided that it would be easier just to have Jeff and Kim and anyway. It was tough for Jonathan.

So I feel... Especially cut up his $600 pants. Yes. And that was when $600 was really, it was something. People said, so what do you do? And he said, I work for my dad's software company. At least that's stories that I got. back. I didn't talk with Jonathan directly about that.

Because as I said, he did not go to Australia with the rest of us. Yeah. He got permission to go home, which is, of course, very rare because they don't like the boot order to get out. No. And one of the things, if I could do something differently, you'll recall that I left singing on the boat and Jonathan was kind of behind me in the shadows. And if I could do something differently, I would have pulled Jonathan up to stand beside

me and go out with, you know, with the graciousness and smile that we have to have. Yeah. It throws us that curve. You could have done a duet. I think it had to come up a little more. Yeah. But, Wanda, I'm sure, I mean, you were as devastated as he was. You just came about showing it.

So you, that you're thinking about Jonathan now and after the fact was really sweet. But I'm sure it was equally, extremely difficult for you as well. Oh, absolutely. I did not understand it at the time. It took me a while to process it because I really did think that I could go far into the game. And I think that everybody who knew me felt that way, too, because I am positive and energetic and basically fun to be around, not a gloomy person, not a complainer. And I think it just didn't meet my expectations what happened. But it was the twist. Of course, I felt like the twist was unfair, the multiple twists, the pickup game and the not having our clothes, not game closed and things like that that put me at a disadvantage. Another thing that I was hoping to do in the beginning was I was looking forward to this kind of campfire experience where we'd all sit around the fire and even on the first night, like, talk to each other. but there were no logs there that you could pull around to a central campfire where everybody could get together. And I was looking forward to developing a group camaraderie that never really happened. And on day two, it was very hot and we were all out in the water to keep cool.

And some were splashing. And I was flashing along. And Jolanda said to me, and it was interesting. Jolanda and Angie Dekuze, let's say our tattoo girl and I, were kind of won the outs of the splashing and fun that the others were having. And when I tried to engage, Jolanda said, the kids don't really want you in there. Like, that's there. That's there.

And so there was that. And it was just, I just wasn't able to get a whole group. cohesion that you have when you have a smaller tribe. It's hard to get 20 people together, especially when you can't even develop a central campfire. Because in the short time that I was there. Yeah, that's so interesting about that, you know, we have seen such small tribes on Survivor over the last couple of years, but you're not even in a tribe of 10 yet.

You're in a group of 20 people. So that's really hard to navigate. it is and I know that like I guess Dalton Ross has written like if you can't get chosen in a pickup game well that's on you you haven't practiced your social game well one of the factors there too was that no woman could pick me because men had to pick a woman women had to pick a man so if I had friends there which I did such as Jolanda she couldn't pick me she couldn't pick me she would have picked me early if she would have had the opportunity. In fact, she was the first person to pick someone, but she had to pick the man. So that was another factor.

That's just one of the challenges. Wanda, I'll tell Dalton Ross, that's a bad take that he had. Come on, Dalton. Yeah, come on, Dalton. You're better than this. So, Wanda, those two days you were saying, the first two days,

Did you notice anybody other than Kobe that looked like they were actually playing the game, start, you know, already strategizing with other people other than Kobe? I didn't. That doesn't mean it wasn't happening because I do believe that some of the finalists in career, Ian, Katie, they were already developing a kind of alliance. And maybe I had ruled myself out. that a little bit because I had said from the

beginning, let's all get to know each other before we start making judgment. Yeah. It's out of that. So because I really did want to get to know everybody before just slamming into an alliance

that sometimes people regret later when they get to know somebody else better. And when you have 20 people to start with, I wanted everybody to have a chance. So maybe because I'm public about the fact that we just all need to get to know each other. The unity thing maybe precluded my being invited and to are engaged in an alliance.

I didn't speak to start one right way. Yes, T-Birds. Let's play your own thing we've got for our strategic player. Surprise, Wanda. It's me. Do you even know I am? It's Kobe. I know you don't recognize me because I'm old.

But it's Kobe. I love you. And I just wanted to come here and tell you that. And I also wanted to surprise you with the fact, maybe it's not a surprise, that I have talked about you nonstop for 21 years because any survivor fan who talks to me wants to talk about the school yard pick them.

And they want to ask, why I didn't pick you or Angie and why I picked Karen. And I have to explain all that. Angie, God rest her soul. But what people don't realize is that, you know, you're not just this skit of this. person who came and sang this song that, you know, we all knew each other. We were on the beach together for two whole days.

And at the night before the school year had picked on, we had already known each other for two days, three days, I think. And me and you had stayed up all night long talking about our lives, me, you, Jolanda, Ibrahim. And like, we talked about your son and some other stuff in your life. I'm not going to talk about. But like, I really knew you and it was hard not to pick you. It really was. And so I still feel guilty about that 21 years later.

but I just want to let you know that I have pride that I still get to talk about Wanda and Survivor 21 years in the making and I hope I get to do it for another 20 and I love you and I wish you were easier to get a whole time

than we're on social media. Oh, Toby, I remember our conversations there in those first couple of days there by the water and the talk that we did have about the difficulties, the challenges that we were having in our lives or families or whatever. And when we had the pick-em game, I believe you were standing behind me.

They sort of gave the instruction as though, and they told us to line up on that line in the sand on the beach, all in back, short and front. And I believe you were behind me. And I heard you say, oh, this is so unfair. Like I never get picked in this kind of thing. I've been in school yard pick them. I've never gotten picked, and this is just so unfair. And I was standing in front of you, and I was thinking, I could say, oh, Kobe, I'll pick you.

But I thought I was going to be one of the first picked. And I thought, oh, but there's also, you know, I really do like Tom and Eaton and some of the others. I don't want to make a commitment right now as to who I'll pick when I get picked. So anyway, but you were on my list And I almost made a pledge to you there at the beginning When you were kind of distraught about the pick of the game too Wanda Yeah

You know Wanda we remember so much about the songs that you sang on Survivor I'm interested to know your background with music Because you were a correct member wrong You're English teacher right Right. And so what's your musical background? Well, I don't really have a lot of formal training in music. I just like to be a fun person.

Yeah, I played in the band, a couple different instruments and things like that. But I've just always made up songs. I was just singing teacher in school. And when I say singing teacher, I don't need music teacher. I mean, if somebody had a birthday, like kids would come running to me in the morning and say, Boba, Johnny has a birthday. You've got to go sing to them.

And so I wouldn't just sing the ordinary birthday song. I was saying something like, Johnny has the birthday. Johnny has a birthday. One year older than he wants before. Johnny happy birthday. Johnny happy birthday. Here's so you have 100 more. And I had a bunch of other birthday songs, you know.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Other stuff like that. I made up school. school songs. Like when we had student of the month

made up parodies like if you're going to Northern Potter you're going to find some special people there I just take songs and make parodies

for somebody on teachers retirement or with the trail club I've made up songs that are trail club things and the KTA theme song and, you know, Blop, wop,

chop, chop, buzz, buzz, does the saw. We don't clear the F, the F, D, SDS, and keeps the world in awe. And there are multiple verses to that. And it's just something I do.

I don't have a trained voice. It's one of the ways I've tried to have fun and what. Yeah. Okay. Well, I want to introduce you to somebody who is one of my colleagues that I have been podcasting with,

and you're, music has made such an impact on his life. I want to introduce you to a man. His name is Josh. And I would love to welcome him into the chat, if we could. Here he is. Hi, everybody. Meet Josh Wiggler.

Hi, Wanda. It's such a pleasure to meet you. How's your day going? Are Rob and Tiberd treating you well? Oh, absolutely, yes. This is just a pleasure, and it should have happened long ago. Now, that is something that I can agree with. He life.

Yes. Yes. I feel like this meeting should have happened a long time ago as well, Rob. Yes. Okay, well, so Josh and I have been talking about Survivor for a very, very long time. And, Wanda, once in a one time, we went through every single season of Survivor, and we watched them all in a row, 30 seasons in a row. And when we got to Palau, you made such a big impact on our journey going through all of Survivor.

And we kept your spirit of song parodies alive through all of the seasons of Survivor. One of the seasons before me, they had, they put a little like television show thing. Yeah. I don't remember even which season it was. But I thought that was just such a lot of fun. And I thought it would be fun to try to be the fun person. There are people who try to make the season fun for the people who are on it, not just for people on television, but for everybody there.

So you made it very fun for us. And even though your time on Survivor itself was short-lived, I don't think I'm speaking out of school to say that you have become a podcast legend that you have become iconic specifically in the RHAP community and even more specifically in my podcasting career, Wanda, because not only did you follow us as Rob and I would sing songs in your honor across the journey of the evolution of strategy for every single season from seasons 11 on through 30 every single one of those seasons we then would go on to podcast starting around season 31 32 and would start singing songs on those podcasts as well

and around season 35 this would be 2017 Rob we did something yeah we made a song parody contest where people would send us in their own survival song parodies and it was called the wand off and the idea would be all of our listeners who were so inspired would create their own survivor song parodies submit them and every single week battle it out for the top honors of who had the survivor parody of the week and um i think i've had a very i've been very fortunate to have a very blessed career i've i've had so many highs i've gotten to talk to a lot of great people, Wanda, the Wanda, to this day, the pinnacle of my creative accomplishments. So I'm like gobsmacks to be speaking with you right now at all.

Thank you so much for everything, absolutely everything. Well, I'm very honored. That is very cool to hear, Josh. And I wish you a lot of success for all the years of Survivor and Beyond. They at last forever. They at last. That's part of the Wanda. We sing in the, there's a theme song that says it'll,

the wand off will be here forever. All right. That's great. So, yeah, I'm, I still have some, some stuff about my sleeve. I don't know how much people want to hear. Yeah, sure. Wanda, do you have, any, any new songs that we,

that we haven't heard yet, off of, uh, whether it's like, uh, based off of popular new songs or anything like that? Well, nothing particularly new because it's been, you know, 21 years since I was dawn, but I don't think my Cerviver, Post-survivor rap

was ever heard. I call it a rap. Excuse me? I'm fun from day one, and I'm strong and I'm smart, and I came to play with all my heart, but the bachelor's day, and they were short a rose,

and the oldest gal was sure to get home. Now, I'm sorry, Cope said that my songs could annoy, because I really came to be fun and bring joy. And Willard called me a little, lunatic. Well, I'm singer than he is and much more fit. So I'm still going to sing and I'm still going to dance. And please

Mark Crenet, give me one more chance. So there's... Yeah. Yes. Right, Wanda. Yeah. Wanda, what about Beyond Survivor, though? Are you still making song parodies? Well, yes.

As I said, like for my trail I have our annual song to Jingle Belt Not coming to me how it starts right now But the big chorus is Blop, Blop, Blop, Chop, Chop, Chop Because we're trail maintainers Yes

We'll clear the FCS, that's the name of our trail Hispanic trail system And he's so world and awe And there are multiple verses to that So some time to time I still make up parody for hiking and trail work and things like that. And while I was in school, I was doing it quite frequently for, you know, teachers' retirements or I remember when Bob retired.

Bye, bye, Bob, bye, bye, bye, happiness, fellow loneliness. Yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah. But, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, I'm trying to think of some of the others. much. Wanda, can I

ask you a question? Absolutely. Do you have a favorite song of all time? Oh, I can't come up with anything on that right now. No. Sorry about that, but, you know,

I did have my concluding survivor song. We were stranded on Palauan shores with coconut and rats. We survived 50,000 to eat, and some surf survive the best.

We're survivors we say sent test the test. And in history, all the world will see that survivor 10 was best. Yes. Yes. Nailed it. Like, this was a little bit more morbid,

but when my dad was in the nursing home, like, everybody has dementia there. Paper, diapers are you under? Where when you're living in skilled nursing there at Alba. Calbury Nursing. Oh, man.

They should do that as a commercial. I was just going to say that, Wanda, I feel like you could have a, you could really have a heck of a new career writing jingles, I think, for commercials. Yeah. You're working advertising. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm very happily retired right now. Rob, could you hire Wanda to do song jingles for like your ad reads that you have to do?

That would be good. Especially, you know, we have sponsors on the podcast. That's what I'm saying. We could get you to help record some of these. Oh, blue apron, we want to eat your steaks. That would be great. Or Wanda, you should get on cameo and then people would get birthday messages from you. That's a great idea.

You have all the songs already. Wanda, when I tell you that you would clean up on cameo, yeah. You know, if you want to come out of retirement. Wanda, are you familiar with Cameo? I guess I've heard of it where there's something where you can get people to sing birthday songs to you. I actually would end that for kids in school because not only did the kids come to me and say, hey, some other kid has a birthday,

and then I'd have to go to their home room or cafeteria or something and find them and say, happy birthday. But sometimes a kid would call and say, Mr. Shirk, my dad has a birthday. Can you call him tonight? Can you call them and send a happy birthday too? I'm sorry to do that kind of thing. Wanda, you could still do that kind of thing.

And you could make, you know, you could make some cash on the side and be a pretty lucrative gig, I think. well thank you I'm not sure what it would take to look into that yeah T-bird can help you get so we'll have our people call your people

yeah Wanda have you kept up with watching Survivor over the years I have I don't think I've missed more than maybe one episode really it didn't come through or something like that

but yes I'm a faithful survivor watcher okay of course after four 50 seasons, so many characters, I guess. Can't be quiz. No, no quizzes. What did you think of Stephanie in her return to Survivor in season 50? I cheer Stephanie all the time.

She was a good person, good friend. And so I think she did very well on this last round. I thought she would actually go farther than she did. But it was a good season. and there are a lot of other people that we'd like to see go back to, including you rock. Yeah, maybe one day, Wanda. Yeah.

Yeah, I appreciate that. What's been your favorite season other than, well, probably Palau, wasn't your favorite season. She said it's the best of all time. It's true. She did sing that, yeah. Survivor 10 was best. Other than Survivor 10, what's your favorite season?

What's been your favorite season? You know, I really did like Guatemala a lot. I liked Scout and I loved Twyla. That was Vanuatu. Yeah. The one before you. Yeah. Yeah.

Vanuatu, which was right before my season. Yeah. So I enjoyed that season a lot. I have to say that I probably liked that Earl year's seasons better because I think the twist sometimes felt unfair to me.

And I liked it when people had a more equal opportunity and, well, you know, twists threw me out. And I didn't feel like it was a totally fair opportunity for me to play the game. I've felt like that that's happened with the mothers. I know they feel like they need to change the game up with all the different, you know, Redemption Island and Esd Island. I've got so many things going on now that you practically have to take no people put forward there like, who has this advantage?

Yeah. You can't keep track of it. And then they're switching the tribes around. You don't remember who has background with two. And it's gotten much more complex to follow. It was easier to follow when you had two tribes that stayed the same all the way through. And everybody had, I felt, a more fair. That's why Survivor 10 was best.

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Let your morning change you. Discover coffee plus on Nispresso.com. Although, Wanda, it looks like that they're going to have two tribes in Survivor 51. That's nice to bring that back. Now, I don't really object to maybe three tribes that's six. You do get to know people better when you have smaller tribes. So that's not too bad. But four on a tribe is too small.

Yeah. And on a tribe is too big. This is a sweet spot. Yeah. It's too big. Wanda, so I know you like Survivor Marquesa, but I also think I heard you say that you almost stopped watching Survivor when Hunter Ellis was voted out. I can't believe you know stuff like that, but that is true. Detective Teabird.

My, yeah, how did she get all of this stuff? because I didn't know that anybody but my daughter knew that. Did you understand see my daughter? Like, yes. She might have. It's totally possible. And I felt like Hunter

was really good and worthy and that was the first time when people started taking someone out. Yeah. And actually, you know, the people that were dressed were sometimes really good and worthy

these people, some of the winners have occasionally not been somebody that, and I can't recall the name of the guy right now, but sometimes people that I didn't think were as worthy. Yeah. My strategy, actually, when I talked ahead of time when we talked with, you know, whatever, the meet the press group, but People magazine and so forth. And I explained my strategy. I said my strategy was I wanted to go with what I called the boss. I've been depressed.

Well, I found out who the really good people were. I wanted to say my strategy is, you're a wonderful person. I like to view in the game. I want to see that you don't get taken out because you're considered a threat because you have physical skills or because you're a person of real character. So I'd like to see people in his character wins rather than the feeling like to Russell Hanson. And I know that right now it seems like they stop to do it.

villains and I like seasons where I just fall in love with a bunch of people and there are half a dozen people where I could say I'd love to see that person and I'd love to see that person and I'd love to see that person with okay I like just good people and people who deserve chance and opportunity in life Wanda that we do we do have some other messages to share with you from some of the other survivors that I know you said that you almost stopped watching after Hunter

got voted out but here's the message from Boston Rob Hey, Wanda you seem like a nice lady but I didn't appreciate that you smarten up okay All right there's a Boston Rob

Wanda, it's me Russell Hans I didn't appreciate it that you said that you didn't think I should win I'd be the best winner of all time Wanda I wrote a song too. It's called Russell is the best. Russell won the wand off that one time.

But he's the wombat hat in the fire. Yes. Okay. Wanda, you talked about one of the guys that you didn't think was worthy of winning. But I don't think you were talking about Hatch, Richard Hatch, because you and Richard developed a relationship after. Oh, I, please.

In Wanda's mouth to your word. What? Yeah, we would never do that. he is absolutely right I did establish a relationship with Richard Hatch haven't talked to them for a while now but he's got a podcast right now

or not a podcast a subset which is incredible like I didn't even know he had all that he's an interesting guy oh he's he's really amazing and that

substack. Like if people have time to read something that's deep and thoughtful, he has a lot to say. Check out his substack. I got to say, Wanda, I did not have on my bingo card that you would be talking about a substack today.

I am a reader and I am interested in quality of life. And I'll tell you a lot of what Rich has to say is about really developing that interior life and becoming a thoughtful, good, wise person. And that's very important to me.

Yeah. So I read a couple of subsacks, but one. Would you ever write one, Wanda? I did not write a substack. I have not done that. There's just so much out there. I think people are just flooded with too much stuff. For a while, I wrote some columns for our local newspaper,

a couple times to months but I've backed off from that there's just so much out there for people who read and so there's plenty I don't need Do you like writing though? Did you enjoy that when you would do it? Yes

but I spent a lot of time on it and a lot of research to do things carefully I have written some essays that I think are worthwhile for example I was challenged one time to define like what five things would make you feel like your life is a six steps.

So at the end of life you could say, my life has been successful because. So the challenge was to think about that. So I decided the first thing that's important is family must always be first. That's first priority. And secondly, I wanted to be a person who was a thinker. And that means to feed and to listen carefully to people. under it, think about it, and develop a thoughtful plan of life. So readers think a learner is that category.

And then a leader, it's important to me to be a leader in my community. Like, I'm on the library board, and as I said, president of my trail club. We've got an organization called Ulysses Community Helping Hands. I'm president currently at the Helping Hands Group and so forth. So there's that as a leader. And then to be an adventurer, a survivor's part of that, but also my hiking experiences are part of that. And then at the end of life, to leave a legacy.

And that is to live simply so others can simply live and save money so as philanthropic purposes, give as much as I can to others. So in summary, it's now alliterated, be a lover, a learner, a leader, a liver, and a lever of legacy. Wow. Wow, Wanda. Write essays on things like that and on living simply so others can simply

live. Sometimes I write things like that, but I haven't put it about it. Well, I know a lot of people write a lot of things, but I think there's always, I would love to read more of what you have to say if it's something. that you were ever interested in? Well, I would pass on some of those essays that there was back of my computer sometimes. Robin Siebert have my email address,

and I'd share it with anybody and staff on a couple of ways that I've written. I don't want to share it. Yeah, I think a lot of people would want to read that. Yeah. So, I think Mark Burnett asked you how you deal with adversity in your interview. And you said, when bad things happen, it's a choice how to react.

I choose to be happy. Forgiveness is a choice. You know everything, don't you? She's a learner. She's a learner. And happiness is a choice. Yes. We are all responsible for our own happiness.

And that's a matter of, no matter what life dishes out to us. And every life is going to have challenges, or at least I've been. most people are going to have challenges. Some are much greater than others, but if how you respond to them that makes the quality of the life and the character that you're going to have. So, yes, choose happiness.

Anybody who's heard my survivor speech, my summary of what happened, that's what I talk about. Yes, it's choosing forgiveness and choosing happiness. No matter how the cookie crumbles, no matter how the ball bounce, Rob, I've got to ask her.

Wanda, I know you didn't get to spend a whole lot of time with Jeff Probst, but what is your one-word adjective to describe Jeff Probst? Wonderful. Wonderful. And who do you think? I love Jeff. One of the reasons for going on Survivor was to be able to get up close and personal seeing his dimples at a tribal council.

And I never got to a tribal council, so I didn't really have to do that. but, yeah, I think he's wonderful. I think he really tries to be a good person and to understand what people are going through and smart and perceptive, but also a caring, wonderful, truly wonderful person. Appreciate him. Yeah.

Wanda, who do you think should host Survivor after Jeff Probst? Thank you, Josh. Got you, T-bird. Rob, Dr. Mast her name. Yeah, that's a good answer. Good answer. Good answer. Excellent.

Hey, Wanda. No, no, you're really on my bad list. Oh, no. Yeah. No, not Boston, Rob. I mean, he's a great guy, but he's not a survivor host. That's not his guilt. Yeah.

Thank you, Wanda. I appreciate it. Yeah, Mawanda, this has been so interesting to, you know, to hear more about the way that you look at things. and that I really, I love your perspective on, on all of the things and the way that you handle this, you know, unfair, a bit of adversity. And the way that you've, I've never seen anything where you're not beaming with happiness. And we saw, like, look at Jonathan and how he handled the whole situation.

That he took it one way and you took it the entirely different way. And I think it's such an amazing test. them into everything that you believe in, Wanda? Well, Jonathan was young, and so it was harder for him. I have already had that tough experiences in life that you just have to deal with Davison. Yeah, and his dad bought him $600 pants, Josh. Oh, gosh, really?

Mm-hmm. And a $300 belt. That's what I've made. It's a $900 lower half. He told me. Wow. Yeah. Wanda, before we leave here, do you have any, I think you had songs that you did in when you were in casting.

Do you remember, like the one I said that you did to Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer? Do you remember one or any of those that you did for casting? I don't have my notes here, but let me see if I can start it and look how far I get on it. Okay. You know, Richard and Rupert and Colby and Pina, Heidi and Hunter, and Jenna and Gina But do you recall The greatest survivor of all

Wanda is a great survivor Had a lot of guts and wit And if you ever saw her You would surely know she's fit All of the other I don't remember No

Yeah Right Anyway Right That's that. Yes, please. Derek. So, yeah, you guys have my email address or anybody can have it.

I could. Don't give it to anybody. Anybody who wants the old song sheets. Yeah. So, yeah, W-Shirke-49 at outlip.com. All right. Wow. It is.

I have never been on Facebook. I have never been on those. And you didn't miss anything, Wanda. You're fine. You're doing great. Yeah, I think it's better. What you did was better. Yeah.

Yeah. There's only so much time that we have in life. I think that, I think it was Aristotle who said there's an optimal number of friends that we can actually have. Because you can't spread yourself out too thin. And that's very tough when you, when you've been. on Survivor in particular. It's tough at any point in life if you're a friendly person. But after you've had an experience like Survivor and so many people are interested

talking with you, you have to sometimes say, my family has to come first and I have friends that I have to get close. And there's only so much time. We're finite people. We're finite amounts of time. We have to use it judiciously. Yeah. So that's pretty tough.

but I do want to be as successful as maybe I can with you and your friends. I appreciate the opportunity to be on your podcast here. Well, Wanda, you brought so much wisdom to the podcast. We don't always get that. You know, people are funny and people are smart, but we don't always get wisdom. And I feel like that we got so much of that from you today. Thank you.

That's been important to my life is to try to seek wisdom for myself and to live wisely. as I said with things like live simply so others can simply live I make choices even to eat simply so others to simply eat it is important for me to give to others

and you know even the best little philanthropist I can to be a generous person and to think of others yeah that's all important to me in terms of living a lesson yeah and it seems like it suits you because you seem like

you're doing great Wanda Yes. Well, I've been very much. You haven't lost a step. I like to share the joy and make other people's lives better whenever I can. I have defined woke, W-O-K-E, as working on kindness and empathy, W-O-K-E. Yeah. I do want to try to develop kindness and empathy and understand other people.

I think Jeff Brokes strives to do that too. So we reflect back on that. And, yeah, I admire people of character. I wish that our country would choose leaders that by our type character and unselfishmen. And part of us can make that choice for our own life still. Your grandchildren are very blessed to have you as their grandma. I hope so.

I definitely want to leave a legacy for them. that's not a legacy necessarily of money, but a legacy of their understanding the importance of being compassionate and in others and looking at who they really are and we can help everybody else we make in life. Yeah.

Whenever possible, it's always possible. Well, you're incredible, Wanda. Thank you so much for making some time to talk to us. I think that you're going to have a really big impact. on anybody who listens to this. Thank you, Wanda. Yeah, and if they don't edit your email address out of the podcast episode, you're going to get so much email, by the way.

I just want you to know because so many people love you. You want to take it out? We'll leave it in if you want. If you want to see. But I can. It might be shortstop to answers, but I'll try to... Okay. All right.

Well, nobody could have done that before. I don't think... I love it. Yes. It's so great. All right. Wanda, thank you so much, Josh. Great to see you also.

Great to be back for a moment. Thank you, Tiber. Thank you so much for setting this whole thing up. You're incredible. You're the best. I'd see, Josh. You look amazing, back. Oh, thank you so much.

Very handsome. Well, very, I had to address my best today. Great. Wanda, this was really important to me. Thank you so much. I appreciate it so much. Okay, bye everybody. All right, there you have it.

Wanda Shirk. How about that? Josh, you're still with us. Josh, after all this time, you got to talk to Wanda. of. So, you know, I, as I, I've had a great career, I've interviewed a lot of people, interviewed Will Smith twice, you know, not to brag too much, but just to brag a little bit.

I never thought that I had a bucket list anymore. And then every once in a while, a name pops back up and an opportunity arises. And I'm reminded that the bucket is never full. There's always more room in the bucket. And I am going to remember, I've, how many thousands of hours have I recorded for RHAP? and I think I just had the 45 most joyful minutes of my entire podcasting crew. The smile on my face, I may not have been talking that much because I was just, I was locked in. She's so wonderful.

Oh, my God. Listen to Wanda's five L's. I got to make sure. I'm going to write that on a card to put in my office. Yeah. That's like your Ted Lassow belief poster, I feel like. Yeah. She has such a beautiful spirit.

Yeah. So real. I mean, it's just... Well, and she's not fake either. No. Yeah. Like, she really, like, you get, like, that's... She lives, she lives this life.

Yeah. She does. Amazing. And just the way that she talked about handling her loss in, you know, that, you know, like, that would have been, like, for so many people, like, okay, this is a very painful experience. I don't really like it.

And she just like, okay, so what? You know? How do I help more people? Yeah. her outlook is just beautiful. Because you know, again, Rob, she was just so upset and distraught because she didn't get to play the game. Because she, well, like, like we all prepare for it.

So the way she, you know, people might think, oh, well, it didn't bother her, but it did, it did bother her. She just chose a different way, you know, to react at the time. That was really, I mean, memorable. Of course, right, Josh? Memorable. And I think she would have been good. She would have been good on the show, I think.

100% she would have been phenomenal on the show. There's, you know, there is absolutely the world where she's, you know, the fan favorite player in the season finale. You know, like, there's every world in which Wanda is the wonderful survivor player we want her to be.

All right. Josh, anything, you want to tell people to check out? No. I have to ask. If I said, yes, that would be like, okay, here's my actual literal. physical address, come find me because I'm not online. Yes. Do you want to give out your email?

No. No. No. Give us some number. No. I'm posting thirst traps occasionally on Instagram. Yeah, I feel like you're thirst trapping a little bit on this podcast. I feel like this is like a lot of like man cleavage.

Listen, I feel good. I'm, I'm choosing, I'm choosing man cleavage every day. That's a choice that I can make. And it's a choice I'm choosing to make on this podcast. I don't know if you know this, that me and Tiber don't do this kind of podcast, you know? This is not, this is a family show. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

I'll button up. I'll button up here right at the end. I've got one button that I can do. Josh, you look fantastic. Thank you, Tiberd. I appreciate it. You look amazing too. You both look incredible.

Everyone looks so good right now. It's so great. What a great time. What a great time. Tiber, what's coming up for you? Well, I'm hoping, Survivor. Yeah. Yeah.

5-1 is around the corner. Josh, did you hear our talking with Teabird with Sue Hawke? I saw it make the rounds. I saw clips online for sure. It hit my algorithm, square dead center. I can't believe Teabird, you got Sue Hawk back out here. I was asking Sue Hawke about her iconic Final Travel Council speech.

Stay for Sue Hawks' 30-minute answer about the time she went to Russia to go kill bears. Oh. I mean, that does sound like exactly the podcast I would hope and expect from Yeah, it's a wild ride. Sue never disappoint. Yes. All right.

T. Bird, anything else you want to tell people? No, just thanks for joining us. And I hope there is moved with Zwanda as I have been just learning about her and how wonderful, what a beautiful person is. Yeah. I am really glad we didn't try to explain like the ghost of Casey Kasem. Yeah, yeah, no, no, I think that's like, we would stop. the one, we stopped exactly the right

couple notes shy of it getting really weird. Yeah, the whole that's the perfect amount of information. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much, everybody. Take care of a good one. Bye.

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