RHAP: We Know Survivor - Talking with T-Bird: Will Wahl

Episode Date: August 20, 2024

In this episode of “Talking with T-Bird,” Rob and T-Bird welcome Survivor: Millennials vs. Gen X player, Will Wahl.

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Oh, this T-Bird you cannot change. And things might get pretty strange. Yes, that's right. Talking with T-Bird is back once again, as we are catching up with that he was the youngest millennial once upon a time. And now he's here to talk with us. Will Wall joins us here with a woman who would run through a brick wall. It's T-Bird Cooper. T-Bird, how are you?

I'm good. So, Rob, isn't Will still the youngest person to have played? I know Julia played before him. I don't know. I don't know. I have to look that up. Okay. Don't you do a lot of research?

Although some of your research gets a little fact-checked in the real time sometimes it does hey look i gotta do better yeah if you could double check your research moving forward i think he might still be the youngest yes okay well last time out we had uh we got a lot of a lot of response people really loved our last interview with Sugar Kuiper. Yes. She was great. Yeah, that was a really fun one. Sugar was lively.

And yeah, people were very excited about that one. Sugar had a lot of energy. She has a lot of energy. And she's got a great survivor story. I mean, I guess most people have pretty good survivor stories. But with her playing twice and everything that happened, how well she did the first time and going in the second time. I mean, I think, Rob, maybe we might mention this a time or two. But like I think even Lex has said, playing the second time is sometimes not all it's cracked up to be.

Maybe you can talk about that, Rob. But it makes sense. It makes sense, though, really, that you've got all these expectations, especially as well as she did the first time. But anyway, Sugar was great. If you haven't listened to her, you're going to really enjoy her. I'm being told in my ear that Will Wall's still the youngest player by birth date, by his age on the show. Okay, I thought he might be. Okay, so

good. There's some information I've got correct. Good to know. Very good. We're winding down on our talking with T-Birds. We only have a couple more, at least maybe a couple more this season. Yeah, but we're closing in on less than a month to go

till Survivor 47-al, T-Bird. I know, 47-al. I'm looking forward to it. Are they back yet, Rob? Are they back yet from this last, when they finished? I believe so, yes. Okay.

All right. T-Bird, we got Will standing by. You ready? Let's do this. All right, T-Bird, take it away standing by. You ready? Let's do this. All right, T-Bird, take it away. Our guest today from Long Valley, New Jersey, played on season 33, Survivor Millennials vs. Gen X. It was an all-star cast. Don't let his amazing, deep, mature voice mislead you.

His gameplay and strategy were thought out in describing himself as cunning and adaptable. He was the youngest player to ever compete. And unlike the player just a season before his that lied about their age, his strategy going in was not to lie about his life outside the game, including his age, but to, quote, lie every chance I get inside the game, end quote. The first season he had ever watched was Redemption Island. He first applied not expecting to be cast. He just wanted to get his name out there. He figured he'd be ready by age 22, but God had other plans for this young Christian man who said, quote, I will use religion and Christianity to help build bonds with people, end quote.

He was in high school in his senior year and had only a month of school left. He had the full support of his dad. His mom, well, would be a hard sell. She was nervous and wanted him to finish college first. Once she was on board, he had to approach his principal and guidance counselor. They were supportive. He lacked English and gym to graduate, but it was decided a month and a half of Survivor was equivalent to high school gym. To prepare, he took swimming lessons, worked out, and added a layer of fat by eating lots of carbs and four meals a day.

His game plan, quote, was to have no plan, to be adaptable, to be open to ideas and see how people are going to react. Then formulate a strategy as the game progresses, end quote. He said he was playing from the bottom. He won the first individual immunity challenge, when it rains, it pours, lasting over an hour and a half, which he said he had practiced at home and couldn't make it five minutes. He would make it today 34 out of 39 days.

He said he played too aggressively and in fear, quote, afraid on being the first one voted off, afraid he wouldn't make the merge, afraid of missing loved one's visit, end quote. And he was very arrogant, very confident. Playing the game was a very humbling experience, he said. His advice, if you play, quote, be confident in the moves that you make, but don't cross the line from confidence to arrogance. He went on to graduate from high school, graduating from Ohio State University with a bachelor's degree in public affairs and political science, then attended Wake Forest University School of Law. 2023 would prove a banner year. He received his Juris Doctor from Wake Forest University School of Law, became a U.S. Navy JAG officer, and married beautiful Allison, the love of his life. I introduce to you the kid who once wanted nothing more than to be accepted and respected, the very impressive Will Wall. Will, how are you?

Great. That was an amazing introduction. I always love your introductions, T-Bird. Every time I hear them on this podcast, they're always so thoughtful and kind. So thank you for that. That was great. Yes, yes. Thank you so much for being with us. So I'm just wondering, you built quite a resume at 26. 26, Rob! Don't say resume. Will started that on Survivor, some people say.

Yeah, that's the big debate. Yeah, first Survivor resume, now I've got to work on the real life resume. This is real resume. Have you heard that, Will, that a lot of people say that you really popularized the term survivor resume? I did hear that. I think it was on this podcast, some of the guests talking about that. And I'll take that. I love the term survivor resume. I think it was, you know, it really did shape my perspective of the game because I was always thinking, how do I sell myself, especially being so young? So I was always thinking about how to get another, you know, point on that resume to build up my final three speech. Unfortunately, never got to give it. Yeah. Well, as T-Bert said, what an accomplished resume you've done outside Survivor. I mean, this is so fun that, you know,

you played Survivor as a young person. And so fun uh that you know you played survivor as a young person and i feel like you know i always like to see like what people that we came to know on the show uh you know have been up to since it's been largely like away from like the survivor you know uh public eye so uh in addition to everything that t-bird laid out uh what else is new with you yeah so i mean after i graduated from law school ended up uh taking the bar exam going on a little trip around europe backpacking with some friends that was amazing that was a life-changing experience and then got married and moved to washington D.C., which is an amazing city. If anybody's never been to D.C., all those Smithsonian museums, they're all what they're hyped up to be.

And, yeah, it's been a great opportunity. Will, so I want to ask you about your beautiful wife, Allison, which, Rob, I just learned she's an attorney as well. OK. They're both overachievers. Love it. Where did you meet her and did she know about you and Survivor when you first met her? Yes. So I met her in law school and she had heard through the grapevine that I was on Survivor, but she was never like a big fan before or anything like that. So she

just got to know me as me, which I really appreciated and liked. But, you know, every little bit here and there, I know her family's watched the show now. They never watched it before. So it's slowly getting her to become a survivor fan. Do you keep up with the show? Will? I haven't recently just with life. It's been tough, but I know with 50 around the corner, that's going to change real soon. I'm going to have to watch that um because i mean all these people coming back all these people that i watched growing up it's gonna drag me back

in yeah yeah i think it's such an interesting story to uh come into survivor and play in high school uh i'm not sure uh how many people can claim that but it's just so interesting to me. I could not imagine going from high school to being on Survivor. Could you talk a little bit about what that was like for you to go from one day you're in class and then next day you're on national television playing Survivor? It was one of the most exciting things and also one of the most terrifying things. I was freaking out on the flight over there and I was trying to hold it together, trying to play a poker face because I wanted to seem like, okay, I'm ready for this. But it is scary, right? I knew that everybody out there was going to be a lot older than me,

but I also was just so incredibly excited for the opportunity, the ability to play the game that I loved. I was a super fan, obsessed with the game, watched every season, knew all these different players. And I was just so excited to live the game that I had watched from the couch for so long. But it certainly was a mix of emotions. But it certainly was a mix of emotions. Will, so I read that you first started with Redemption Island. And did you go back and watch the others before you played the other seasons? Absolutely.

Actually, when I was in the interview process in the hotel, I was watching a few of the last seasons I hadn't seen, likeicaragua. I was watching that, just trying to get every little piece of information I could. I was taking notes on what strategies worked well for people. I was a student at the time, right? So I knew how to do it. I took notes and I studied up to try to prepare.

Will, what did you tell them, though, that made them decide to say, OK, let's take a chance on you were what 17 or you were 18 when you played i was 18 18 uh to take a chance on because so many people apply what what were you telling them that got them so excited about you i was really hyping up the age difference and the fact that i was this young guy who wanted to go against these older people and show them who's boss. I had no idea it was millennials versus Gen X. But when I found out, I didn't even think you're a millennial.

Are you? I'm right on the cusp of the old Gen Z. I don't know. World's oldest Gen Z. Right. Pretty much. Yeah. I don't necessarily feel like I'm in either category but i kind of just

adopted millennial because i was on survivor millennials gen x but yeah i really i think i'm probably the very beginning of gen z will i mean rob i think you're going to find this to be really kind of fun i read or somehow found out that will got interested in survivor from another survivor player that we've talked to that is crazy crazy fun one you're interested in survivor from meeting a another survivor alumni yes okay let me well where did you uh grow up will jersey you said right so i'm trying to think of hmm am i close am i am i looking okay no all right who is it wait okay go ahead t-bird tina sheer oh timber tina timber tina one of my favorite guests uh why how did you run into timber tina so i used to vacation up in maine all the time and she has the timbertina experience yes yeah yeah and i went to the show and she

talked about her survivor experience and it was funny she recommended being one of the first ones voted out so you get paid a whole vacation paid for i didn't follow that advice but i really did i became very interested and i was too young my parents wouldn't let me watch the show then but but did you know did you go see her because you knew she was on survivor or you went to go to her thing and she said hey watch survivor we just stumbled upon her show yeah Yeah, it was the latter. She just said, go watch Survivor. It's a fun show. Wow. Origin story. Yeah, that's a great story. Hey, Will, I think I read, too, that you stepped away from Survivor just for your mental health. And that it took you like a year and a half to kind of come back down to whatever normal was, which I think is very normal for most of us.

Yeah, absolutely. It was not even being out there on the show so much as knowing that millions of people are watching you every week. Yeah. Being an 18 year old that especially in college, too. I mean, I went from a small town to being in a major city and everybody would recognize me. I couldn't go outside without people recognizing who I was. And that was a little overwhelming for this little introvert from a small town outside of New York there. So it was a little overwhelming and I needed to kind of take a step back, but it really was. And looking back now, it was just a fantastic experience. I recommend everybody who plays to take a little step back, but then try to get back into it because doing a lot of introspection, it really did change my life for the better.

Can you talk a little bit about what was the part that was hard that you were needing to deal with? were needing to deal with? Yeah, it was a little bit of, for me, the edit. I was hoping that I would be this larger than life character and that I'd be the star of the show. I think everybody wants that. And especially as an 18 year old, you build up this story in your mind. But looking back, I think my edit was fair. I think how they portrayed me was how I was as an 18-year-old. And as the years go on, I'm actually really happy with the edit I got because it showed exactly who I was at that time and how I played the game. I play a lot differently now, but at the time, that was me. That was who I was. And Will, you went into the game, I believe, wanting them to know your age because even Jeff mentioned it.

But I think that he had checked with you prior to make sure you were OK with them knowing that. Since it after that happened, knowing how the Gen Xers weren't big on wanting to give an 18 year old a million dollars. Do you regret them knowing your age? Would you wish you had changed that? I don't think I would have been able to hide it. I definitely looked the youngest out there. And that's why I kind of leaned into it.

He's got the voice, Rob. He's got the voice. Yeah, but they can see him. What, is he going to wear the buff over his face the whole time? And he's tall, too. So, I mean, maybe if he could have just, like, figured out a out a way to like stand very far away from everybody. That would probably be my best bet. Yeah, puff over the face, stand far away.

Or maybe like sleep all day and only come out at night. Yeah. I probably would be voted out early for the social aspect of it being so far away. It's tough. Yeah. It is. It was tough. So, it is. It was tough. So I leaned into it and I just,

I'm not the best liar either. I really am terrible at lying. So I was like, I'm just going to say who I am. I'm going to, everything outside the game, I'm going to be open and honest with. And I'm going to try my best to, you know, be able to navigate inside the game strategically. But with the age, I just decided to lean into it,

have a little bit of fun with it. And that was that. Yeah. But I do think that your participation in Millennials versus Gen X, I think that it's a very important season for the show. And I think it's like a really, a season that changes the course of Survivor history

when we take a look at it from like a really a season that changes the course of survivor history when we take a look at it from like a broader view and not to say you specifically will um but that the cast of younger people and especially younger people who love survivor it's the first season that's in fiji uh it's the first season that jeff reallyiji. It's the first season that Jeff really comes away saying like, hey, if it comes down to like hanging out with the people my age or hanging out with I want to hang out with these people.

And I do think that we see this infusion, especially in the new era of it's a lot of young people who know the show especially well who are sort of like inspiring. Yes. Yeah, it really is. And even though I haven't watched newer seasons, I do look up the cast and try to follow along on Reddit a little bit.

So I've seen a lot of younger players play and a lot of them do really well. And it is inspiring. And I do love the fact that Millennials Gen X sort of paved the way for that with our Millennial tribe. It was a lot of fun playing with a lot of young people in the beginning and the Millennial tribe. We were sometimes disorganized, but we we love the game. And that really, I think, shined on television. And I think with those younger super fans, they really had that passion. television and i think with those younger super fans they really had that passion well and with them with the idols which is this is a little unusual y'all used to go on hunts with the whole group looking for idols right we did that a few times i i think that was really because

nobody trusted each other so we all went as a big group so that we would all get to see who actually, you know, found the idol. But it's not the best strategy overall, I think. And that's why when Jay and I founded, Jay pulled me aside and was like, hey, just you and I, let's go look for it. And that I think is a much better strategy. It was just a lack of trust, especially on the early days of the Millennial Tribe. There was so much drama, so much back and forth. It was not enough that could even be shown in the 45 minute episodes. But there were times where alliances were imploding and everything was in shuffle. It was, yeah, everything was shaky in those early days.

yeah, every, everything was shaky in those early days. And you mentioned Jay. And I think, um, did you say that you wished that you had trusted him more? I think your moves wish you had trusted him more because he seemed to really trust you the whole time. I do wish I trusted Jay more. I wish I trusted Jay more. And I wish I trusted Zeke a little bit more as well. I know Zeke didn't want me anywhere towards the end, but I didn't think he was coming for me as early, nearly as early as I was coming for him.

So I think if I really leaned into those two who really worked really hard to build allegiance with me and build a nice relationship with me out there, I think we all could have made it a little bit further. I think I jumped the gun a little bit. I got a little bit too excited. And I wanted that. Another point on my resume. So it's a new year. You know what that means, setting big goals. Maybe you promised yourself you're going to hit the gym every day. Or maybe you said you're going to learn to make fire with a flint for once. Or the classic, save more money. But let's be honest, New Year's resolutions tend to fizzle out by February. Wouldn't it be great if at least one of those goals could be automatic? That's where Acorns comes in. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. You probably heard me

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It's a way of life. You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. Well, another thing that you get credited for a lot when you come up in modern conversation of Survivor is that the idea of the will-wall-pendulum strategy is still discussed. I would just love to know from you just how much was that something that you really were going for? How was it different than what we saw on the show? And do you like that? It was fully my strategy. I wasn't just saying it to say it.

It was what was going to be my final three speech talking about how I swung from alliance to alliance. And it even dated back from the very beginning where Michaela and I were kind of the swing votes between the two alliances on the Millennial Tribe. So I always felt like I was in the middle and I wanted to swing back and forth. I think people can do it. I think Tony Vlachos kind of did a little bit of that. It certainly can be effective. An 18-year-old doing it is a lot harder than somebody who has the social capital to be able to pull it off. But I think it's a great strategy. And if people have that social capital, it can be very effective because you get to try to choose who goes to the

end with you a little bit more. You have a little bit more agency when you're the one controlling all those votes as the swing. But I think it can get kind of dicey for people who don't have it. Yeah, and I think the real question about it is how do you keep yourself important enough or valued enough by both of the groups that the groups don't look at you as an unreliable number yeah that happened on your season right rob where the swing vote got voted

out and well yeah the person felt like and we've seen this also in survivor kagian with sarah also like the person that's like hey i have all the power here. Sometimes that person's like, well, maybe you're overplaying your hand. Exactly. And I think I overplayed my hand a little bit. And that's where it went from being effective to very ineffective quickly. And I think that's what was set off. I think it's hard for one person to do it and do it for a long time but i do think that maybe like a duo could do it where it's not that like you can't just necessarily now like turn

and get like this one person out like i feel like that if there's like a a block that's uh okay we're here we're here we're here you know uh. You know, Tony always had Wu with him. I think that maybe if you have like a duo that's potentially doing the pendulum, maybe there could be a little bit more long-term viability in that. I think that's a really good point. Yeah, if I was working with maybe Brent or Sunday

or maybe a combination of the three of us, I think we could have really effectively done that a lot better. But yeah, that's a very good point. Doing it just solo, that's tricky. If you could have gotten Michaela off the seashell plan, maybe you could have brought her in to your pendulum strategy. I have so many regrets about that vote. I really wish that we just worked with Michaela. She had a fantastic plan going all the way through. And I think really what it came down to was Jay and I were just bored out there. We were antsy. I think Stephen Fishback even said that

in the podcast. We were there so many days and hadn't seen a lot of action. So we wanted to make a big move. It was just such a bad move. Michaela was really a great, loyal person for us. And she was never going to betray us, or at least not anytime soon. So I have a lot of regrets about that vote. That's probably one of my biggest regrets about my game. I wish we went further. Interesting. So who were you voting for that night to have gone home?

Was it Brett? Or if you did not vote out Michaela? It was Brett. Yeah. And Brett was a great ally later down the road for me as well. But I just think Michaela would have always had our backs. And I think voting out Michaela, Hannah told me after, really ostracized us from the rest of the Millennials.

Whereas maybe the Millennials could have been united a little bit longer going into the merge. Michaela's still been there. But it was a great TV moment. Oh, yes. Yes, because it's probably one of the biggest moments of the season. What can a Gen Xer learn from a Millennial? Basically, probably nothing.

We'll see. Okay. Here is your old tribe mate, Brett. Hey, everyone. How you doing? Will. Glad to see you, buddy. Been a long time, my friend. Been a long time. T-Bird hit me up and said that her and Rob are going to have you on the podcast, so I just had to send

in a video message. And I mean, look at you. My God, look what you've done. I think you got married. You've become a JAG officer. I mean, congratulations. That's, that's so awesome. Thank you for your service. Uh, that's just great. Um, I mean, thank God you're like a JAG officer. I mean, so you're a lawyer. I mean, you went to law school, you graduated, became a JAG lawyer, which is fantastic. It's better than being a scumbag defense attorney like Chris Hammond. So I appreciate that. And I'm proud of you, bud. That's awesome. And, you know, one of my favorite stories about Will was when we went out, I met him for the first time on Ikebula. And we all it was six of us out there.

And, you know, we know me and Sunday knew each other, but we didn't know the other guy. So it was really cool to kind of get some fresh faces to talk to after a couple of weeks the gen x tribe and i thought to myself this 18 year old kid what's he going to teach me he's the same age as my nieces and my nephews but man i'll tell you we're sitting around the fire one night will i know you remember this we're talking about everyone's talking about food you're starving out there there's nothing to eat so he's sitting around there talking about food and i go so i think i we said what said, what's the one thing, when you get back to civilization, what's the one meal you're going to have?

And I think we went around the fire and I think I said steaks. You know, Sunday might've said steaks. I think Hannah said sushi. I don't know, but everyone had something different. And we get to Will and Will said, I'm going to go get a big tub of peanut butter and I'm going to get some chocolate bars

and I'm going to dip the chocolate bar in the peanut butter and I'm going to go get a big tub of peanut butter and I'm going to get some chocolate bars and I'm going to dip the chocolate bar in the peanut butter and I'm going to eat it. And I literally looked at him and I'm starving. And I looked at him, I said, that sounds so good. And I think Will and I literally for the next two days, that's all we talked about was chocolate, dipping chocolate bars in peanut butter. So when I got back to Boston, a couple nights later, I went out to Whole Foods. I didn't get any of that Skippy shit or any of that stuff. I got some real, I went to Whole Foods,

ground up my own fresh peanut butter. And I went and got the Cadbury milk chocolate bars, not the little ones, I got the 360 gram ones. And I sat in front of my TV for two hours and I ate. I dipped my Cadbury chocolate into the fresh peanut butter and it was so good. And Will, you were so right. And I was like, I never thought that Will would teach me anything out there. But he taught me what he taught.

He gave me one of the best snacks that I still eat today. So thanks, buddy. Listen, congrats on getting married and all that. Miss you. Let's get together soon, buddy. All right. Take care. Rob. Rob. Hello. Everyone misses me. I'm still here. T-B that. Miss you. Let's get together soon, buddy. All right, take care. Rob.

Rob, hello. Everyone misses me. I'm still here. T-Bird, love you. Talk to you soon. Bye, guys. The chocolate and peanut butter thing, that was a big conversation out there. Wow, Will, you invented chocolate and peanut butter together?

Incredible. I can't see the credit for it, Benny. But I love it. His mind, T-Bird. That was one of the first things I had when I was voted off, just dip Oreos in peanut butter or chocolate and peanut butter. It's so good.

So I hear. Yeah, it was, and it was a big one. Yes. Yeah. So Will and Rob, you know,

that's, that happens, I guess, at every season where you're just sitting around talking about food. And I think I remember production saying, mm-mm, cut it with all the food stuff. Because, you know, it gets probably, you know, but you can't help it. It just happens. That's interesting that they wouldn't let you talk about food out there. For us, they said, like, no songs or anything that are copyrighted.

But they let us talk about food as much as we wanted to. Well, I don't know that they said, don't talk about it, but you know, I think it went on for quite some time. I think they'll let you go for a little bit and then it's like, all right, come on, let's get to something else. People come on. Yeah, that's fair. That is fair. So Will, you and I, Rob, tell me, tell the truth here. Have I ever said that anybody reminds them of me that we've talked to? Not that I can recall, but I'm interested to see where this is going to go.

Will, this is so cool. There are quite a few similarities between the two of us. You played at 18 and I played at, well, 40. Okay. A couple of things. Since coming back, I've never watched any of Africa. I've never watched it. I just never wanted to. And I think I read that you had watched maybe bits and pieces, but that you hadn't watched your whole season.

Is that true? Yeah, that's true. So that's one thing. That's one thing. OK. We both lasted the longest having no votes against us. Okay. We both lasted the longest having no votes against us. Okay. Right? I think when I went out, I got, I never had a vote. Then I got four votes and then you got, I guess, whatever, six votes. Another thing. Okay. And let's see another one, our game plan. When I went in front of CBS and they said, what's your plan?

I said, what I said was my plan is I have no plan. I'm going to watch it and see how it plays out. Exactly what you did. Exactly what you did. And then the other thing, when it rains, it pours. That was our challenge. Yep. And they actually changed it up for y'all and y'all had both arms up where we just had the one arm up so that's four things that's very awesome that's it that's it there's nothing else in common well there may be but four things you know that's kind of a lot a lot we voted out about the same exact time and you know to be the age difference male female in our age difference to have so many similarities is I thought was really neat as I was learning about you.

Yeah. And that challenge, if it rains, it pours. That is a tough one. It really kind of wears you down once you hit that hour mark. What were you thinking about? Do you remember what you were thinking about when you were doing it other than you needed to win? Yes. I kept thinking about the fact that I had a hand in voting out several people pre-merge. We hadn't found out that we were on the jury yet. And I was afraid that I'd be voted out, wouldn't make the jury and would have to face all those people that I had a hand in voting out. So that was really a big motivator for me to keep pushing on. Right. And you lost 20 pounds out there. Yes.

Yeah. And I didn't have 20 pounds to lose. I know. Because like Rob said, you were tall, but you probably didn't. I mean, that's a lot of weight, 20 pounds. How long did it take you to put it back on? It actually didn't take long at all. I feel like after a few weeks.

Yeah, enough chocolate bars and peanut butter. That'll do the trick. Absolutely. Well, who do you keep up with from your season? Yeah, so for a long time, I kept up with Hannah. And just with this last year, it's been kind of a whirlwind. So Hannah and I had kept in constant contact. And then I have everybody on Facebook.

We wish each other happy birthdays and things like that. But I really need to maybe go and have a little reunion with everybody. It's been way too long. And I mean, all these people had kind of, as Brett was saying, we had an impact on each other out there. And we really did leave a lasting memory. So I need to reconnect. Now, famously, after the season was over, you know, I remember as an outsider being like, wow, this cast is hanging out all the time.

And I remember everybody went to Vegas after. Did you go or were you invited to go to Vegas after the season was over? go or were you invited to go to vegas after the season was over i was but as someone who was under 21 i i stepped back i did not go with them i stayed with family we ended up meeting up with other family out there it that's why i'm not in any of the pictures but it seemed like a very okay all right but you but you did end up getting there. Yes. Uh, my cousin lives out there. So I was out there. You stayed with your cousin and then, and then got to see everybody. Oh, I didn't really meet up with too many people.

You were just in Vegas at the same time as them. I believe it was at the same time. Something like that. But I did not participate in any of the yeah shenanigans yeah exactly well bobby mentioned his age and him not being 21 to go to vegas now might be a good time to to put the other little clip in okay let's see uh what another familiar face has to say it's david wr Will, we've got to vote out Adam. Wait, what? That's better. Hey Will, it's David Wright. T-Bird asked me if I wanted to say hi and I didn't hesitate to say yes.

I'm just sitting on my catio with my cat in sunny Sherman Oaks, California and happy birthday again. I hope jagging is going well. Is that something? Give me a shout next time you're in LA and we'll grab drinks. Beer for me, salt Give me a shout next time you're in LA And we'll grab drinks Beer for me, salt drinks for you

Sorry, you're probably sick of that joke And you probably were eight years ago Anyway, I hope all is well in your world, Will And take care, man, bye-bye Wait, does David Wright just have his survivor uniform On the ready like Superman? That's what I was thinking It kind of brought me back a little bit

I was like, oh, wow. We're back on the island. Does David talk that fast? I didn't know. Does he talk that fast normally? I hadn't met him in real life, even though I feel like I know him. It depends on the moment, but yeah, when he gets excited

or passionate about something, absolutely. Yeah. Did they ever say he's on the catio also? That's what I think he said. Yeah. Catio with the cat, I guess. Okay. That is cool.

David, you've got to love him. He's always got, you know. All right. So, Will, let me ask you about Jeff Probst. So, you watched all, I mean, I think we all have things will let me ask you about jeff probst so you watched all i mean i think we all have things built up in our mind about probst before we actually get the opportunity because i remember being really excited just to see him once we got out there how do you think he has progressed from when you first watched him in borneo up to your season yeah i think Jason? Yeah, I think by the time that I saw him on my season, he was really the leader of the show.

And I know he wasn't always like the producer, but by the time he got there, he was a well-oiled machine. He was leading it. I felt like he genuinely really cared about all of us and how we were doing. I'm sure he did throughout every season, but that was something that really struck me was just how great of a leader he was for the whole crew and for us as a cast. He really, during tribal councils, led us to the proper places. He always kind of controlled the flow of the conversation. And I'm sure that takes a lot of practice when you have a lot of different big personalities out there. He always knew exactly how to drive the conversation to where it needed to go.

Rob, you want to ask him the question? You want me to? It's your question, T-Bird. Okay. What's one word that you would use to describe Jeff Probst? Passionate. Survivor is his baby. He loves it. And he loves to share Survivor, but you got to have that same passion and that same respect for the show. The only times I've ever seen Jeff get upset is when people don't have the respect for Survivor and what it is. But so long as you have that respect and that love, he loves to share it. Do you think once he decides to retire, who do you think could step into his shoes and keep it going?

That is so tough. Rob, maybe. I don't know if that's a job that you would want. Austin, Rob? Oh, my God. No, you, Rob. I don't know. Will, thank you.

Thank you. But I think they're going to go in a different direction. I think if and whenff wants to do it they could do better they'd be slumming it i just feel like it's so hard to replace jeff he's such a big personality and i don't i don't even know where to begin with that would you get a former player would you try to get somebody else maybe go outside of the survivor community i i'm not sure i don't really know what the right answer is for that. Well, you were involved in a huge moment

in Survivor history of the big rock draw at 10. You were deadlocked. And I feel like so much has been talked about this, but from your perspective, what was that like to go through that moment that was absolutely terrifying but also in a weird way i felt this piece of calm like the power after all the votes had been cast and i knew we were going to rocks everything was out of my hands it was all luck It was all fate. And it was this weird kind of terrifying, but also this weird sense of calm. I was very close to flipping my vote, very, very close to

flipping the other way. But reading the reactions of the room, I thought somebody else was going to. And when that didn't happen, I was like, oh, no. But eventually I realized it's just out of my hands. I can't control it anymore. Yeah. After going through that experience, what should a person do in that spot, especially somebody who is considering flipping in that moment? Yeah, I would try to read the body language as best you could, perhaps better than I did. to read the body language as best you could, perhaps better than I did because I misread it. But try to see if you think anyone else is going to flip. Try to do the best convincing you can to get somebody else to flip. But if you feel like you need to be the one to do it, then go ahead and

do it. Because at the end of the day, you got to protect yourself out there, right? It's one person wins at the end. So do what you can to try to make it to the next vote do you like to see the rock happen out there well you know it hasn't happened since these guys did it and i think that's okay okay you know and i think it's so interesting like over the course of history of the show uh where that in survivor marquesas, Pascal draws the rock and it then it doesn't happen again until Tyson in Survivor Blood vs. Water. Tyson gets through it and he wins the season. And I think that then there's like a little bit of like, oh, see, like Tyson did it and it worked out great for Tyson.

We don't really look at it from Katie's perspective of how she lost the game. And I think that maybe the idea of like, Oh, Tyson did it. And he won, uh, ends up being like, okay,

well now it's on the table of, sure. Let's go to rocks. Let's all like, uh, work for Tyson. That's, that's a finding.

But I think that it was then just so brutal. What happens to Jessica that I think it's gone back to being enough of a deterrent of like, hey, I'm not going out like that. I'm not going to lose the game on a rock that it's never happened since then. I forgot if this made the air or not, but Adam did say to Jessica that in another world, their roles are flipped where Jessica makes it to the final three and wins the game. And I could really see that because Adam and Jessica were in a very similar position. So it really was brutal. It was brutal being there in person and seeing it happen to her because she's

a very nice person. She played such a great game. And to be cut off like that, that was, that was brutal. Yeah. And I wonder, you know, and now we have smaller tribes and I think that like the, the show, I think is maybe hoping like we've gotten where that the rock draw almost

happened in survivor 42. I think they're always hoping that like, what? This person lost their vote. And then they're hoping for this scenario to pop up where it happens again. I just think that the players, you know, want to avoid that. Yeah. And it makes sense, too, because you work so hard to get out there and then you play this very tough game and you don't want to lose that agency and that power to be able to cast your vote and determine who goes out. You don't want to leave it to chance. Right. So it makes a lot of sense that players would be very adverse to that kind of scenario.

Yeah. Will, you voted for Adam at the end. And I think your explanation was you voted for him out of respect, even though he affected your game. And I thought, what a mature, a very mature thing to do and to say that you gave him your vote because he played such a great game. I thought that was very cool. Yeah, he deserved it. that was very cool. Yeah, he deserved it. And I remember sitting, I think it was maybe final five or final six when I was on the jury perspective and I was looking at all these players and I'm like, who's going to win this game? And it just dawned on me. I see Adam sitting there and I'm like, nobody's looking at Adam. Nobody's trying to go after him. Nobody's like thinking of him as a big threat. And I in that moment i'm like i think he might just pull this off and he played such a fantastic game i i don't know and watching him

play was fantastic because he had such great rapport building with everybody his strategy of only lying to people once you would only ever tell a lie one time so that that way you never really knew whether he was lying or you never picked up on his tell. I thought that was genius. He really just through and through had the social game on lock. Did you watch when Adam came back for Winners at War?

I did. I wish that podium was an idol. I really do. I think he played a great game. That was a tough season. Yeah, I think all those amazing players. But he did the best he could under the circumstances that he had. And I loved watching him again.

I loved watching the whole cast. That was a great season. Have you stayed in touch with Adam? Adam and I, it's been, it's been a little while. He, uh, I, he's another one that I got to reach back out to, but yeah, he, him and I did stay in touch for a little while for a few years there. Well, would you consider ever playing survivor again? I can never say no. If CBS, if they give the call, I have to at least consider it. I, you know, with everything falling into place, with life just being married.

But I actually would love to play with my wife. I don't know if they're going to do a blood versus water season again, but that would be fun. I know 50s around the corner. I don't know what that's going to be. Make the pitch. Why would they want you to be like the new uh i was john cody also uh well he's his doctor uh but uh yeah like uh would uh like i guess maybe you two could be like uh they were they were in dc also yeah yeah so i mean for her she's much

more entertaining than me she is very vibrant and loud personality i think she would be just would pop on tv she's done all these like pageants and stuff like that and um she's used to the spotlight so she's really good with that kind of stuff and also too she's just such a bubbly and friendly personality. I think she'd do great at the social game in terms of the challenges and everything like that. And having to start on an Island, she might not like that as much, but I think it would be a fun experience and I think she would really pop and be a fun person.

And if everybody likes that part. You know, believe it or not, when I was 18, I kind of lived for it. I was like, this is exciting. This is awesome. I'm actually out here starving and doing the whole survivor thing. But yeah, looking back on it, it was not great. So Will, what would be a good theme for 50? A good theme for 50. I know Legends has been thrown out a lot.

I think 50 could be a good Legends season. You could get a second chance out there. I've also heard a lot of fans say they want pre-merge people, right? Like some of the big pre-merge personalities. I don't know about for 50, but I think that would be an interesting returning player season as well. I think I saw where you had told Dalton Ross that you'd love to see a season with no Idols, no swaps. What else did you say? No twist.

Just totally back to basics. Back to basics, back to the 39 days. I know that's not going to happen. It would be, it would be nice to have a season like that, especially with some new school players who are so used to idols and you don't tell them there's nothing out there. So they're looking for these idols and they're not out there. I think that would be kind of fun to see. I also saw that, I don't know if this has changed since I've heard you say this, but that your favorite player was Brian Heideck. Brian Heideck. Oh man. He definitely was an interesting one.

I'm trying to remember when I said that I must've been in high school walking Thailand just recently. Um, I remember for a while saying Randy Bailey was the one who I, I just love Randy, but, um, Brian Heideck was, yeah, that was, that's an interesting answer. I don't even remember giving it. I'll say a very interesting answer. Yeah.

But Rob, he did say he really respected Tony. Sure. And you, Rob C. Oh, you mean Boston Rob, Will? No, no. I love Survivor Amazon. That was a great season. Yes. Okay. I don't know if you were old enough to watch it when it was on, Will? No, no. I love Survivor Amazon. That was a great season. Yes.

I don't know if you were old enough to watch it when it was on, Will. Even when it re-aired. My wife said my kids can't watch it. Well, Will, so this could have changed too, but your favorite season, which, I mean, the cast is so phenomenal, was Panama. Because of the

bottom seven, or the top seven however however it goes rob stop it that you love those and that panama so what i mean what a great cast that i don't think survivor could ever replicate that season i mean that final seven was one of the most amazing group of people i've ever seen on television. And yeah, I mean, sorry, Shane, like you just had so many great, great people out there. So that was, that was a lot of fun. T-Bird, you're going to ask him any of your other famous questions? Yes, I was, I was, I want to, I think I know the answer, but I still have to ask him. So this, this question comes from Tina Wesson.

We had her own earlier in this season um do you have since survivor when you were only 18 have you gotten any tattoos that have represented survivor none that represents survivor uh and i thought about it i thought about getting like an ikabula tattoo like with the turtle was kind of our symbol but i never ended up getting it uh yeah ikabula was that was a real bonding experience for the six of us out there that was the third tribe created out of that season and yeah we were on an island with nothing and that really was a great we were at the lowest of lows at that point. We couldn't sleep. We didn't really eat much. And we came together, the six of us. So if I was to get a survivor tattoo, it would be an Iguobula tattoo.

Well, if you and Allison go and play Blood vs. Water, y'all can get matching tattoos when you get off. That'd be good. That would be really cool. I think she would definitely be open to that. So you have a tattoo, which I'm kind of surprised of. What is your tattoo of, if you don't mind sharing it with us? Yeah, it's just a Bible verse on my forearm here. And it's just like a little writing inscription there.

So it's a small tattoo. But yeah, I did get one. It was funny because in my interview with Jeff, I told him, yeah, I don't think I'd ever get a tattoo. And he flat out asked me, he's like, is that because you're afraid of commitment? Whoa. Yeah. I was like, I think, I think he was testing me a little bit to see what my, my answer would be to that. I didn't really respond, but years later I ended up getting the test. How to take that Jeff. Um, well, I would love to hear your thoughts on, you know, somebody who has come out of this survivor experience so well-rounded from all accounts.

I would think that it could potentially really do a number on a young person to go through this survivor experience at 18 years old, right out of high school. Of course, I'm sure you might be the exception to it where everything seemingly has gone so well for you. Do you think survivors should be putting such young people on the show? I certainly think it's definitely okay to put young people on the show so long as you gotta do that whole long psych evaluation make sure that you know they're ready for it and then also providing resources after the fact i think survivor now provides a little bit of counseling after the fact i think that's very important and encouraging maybe even getting your own therapist both before and after really working on that mental health, because that was one thing I wish I did after Survivor is get a counselor, talk to somebody about it.

I didn't end up doing that, but I think young people certainly can play the game. I think they just need a lot of support through it, both from family and friends and maybe from a therapist or someone like that. Yeah. I think even with people that are 21, you know, I've seen people who are 21 come and play the show, even win the show. They have like, you know, it's the great first step of their adult life. Seen it also go badly for people, you know, who come into the show and then, you know, get that at such a young age and it ends up completely derailing their future as the years go by. So it really, you know, it's like flip a coin. Yeah, it is really tough. I think the perfect age to play Survivor is around mid-20s.

It is really tough. I think the perfect age to play Survivor is around mid-20s. You know, I think for these younger people who are playing, Adam, I think, was 24 when he played. That's a good age. You're a little bit older, a little bit more mature. But at the same time, I don't want to prevent any young people from playing because, I mean, I did it and so many others have, and some people it really does work out well.

On the finale of uh winners at war Jeff said they're looking for people as young as 16 to play survivor what'd you think of that I'm hoping that he was just saying that to be like let's get some 16 17 year olds kind of in the pipeline in our Yeah, and when they turn 18, 19, 20, then we'll put them out there. Interesting. A 16-year-old actually being out there, that to me is a little young. Even I have to draw the line somewhere. But Will, that's what you did when you applied, right? You just wanted to get in the pipeline for playing at 22.

Exactly. Yeah, I never anticipated getting on at 18. I just figured I can apply. I should apply. And maybe in a couple of years when I'm in college, I'll get a chance, but they came and knocked it and I couldn't say no. Yeah. Well, is there anything else that you want to let people know about your survivor experience that is something that you think is important for people to understand about you yeah i think for survivor in general and with my experience don't hold back don't play fearful don't jeff would love this yeah yeah because i i feel like my regret of playing my season i don't really really hold myself, you know, too much account because I was so young, but I was so afraid of making these benchmarks.

I just wanted to make it to the merge. I just wanted to win an immunity challenge. I just wanted to make it to the loved one's visit. But because of that, I sacrificed my game for so long. If I went out there just playing the game I wanted to play and having fun with it and not being afraid of getting voted out, I think it would have been a much more enjoyable experience. And I think I might have been able to pull off some pretty cool moves too. Yeah. It's a great metaphor for life, Will. Absolutely. Yeah. Never hold back and just do what you want to do. So Rob, I know when I played, we all did what you said you were doing. We didn't want to be the first one off. We wanted to make the merge. So I think that's kind of normal.

Rob, did you find yourself doing that? Or was there a difference between the first time you played and the second time you played? Hmm. I think that I just had such low expectations of what was going to happen the first time that I was just like, I can't believe I'm here. I can't believe they're letting me do this. So I think I just looked at every day as a gift, uh,

more so than I was afraid of making a mistake because I felt like that it would, they made a mistake by putting me on the show. I wasn't necessarily of like, uh, worried about screwing up my position. I think the second time I played, I had higher expectations and maybe might've been more fearful

of making a mistake. Well, Rob was recruited from Big Brother. He had applied for Big Brother. So what? Why do you have to bring that up right now? Who are you talking about? Because that's what you were looking for. Like, I want a survivor.

That's all I wanted. Will wanted a survivor. That's all he wanted. You wanted Big Brother. Okay, so I wanted. Will wanted Survivor. That's all he wanted. He wanted Big Brother. Okay, so what? It's Will then. Hey, whoa, hold on. I got to ask Will something about this.

Yeah. So we just talked to a few others ago, Nick Brown from Australia. Y'all have a lot in common. He's a U.S. Navy JAG officer and attorney. Y'all have a lot in common. I don't know if you followed him or know much about him from Australia, but he's quite an impressive young man, just like you are, very much. Oh, I know what I want to ask Rob.

I want to ask Will. At 18 years old, when you go up to the voting confessional and you're doing writing the name, and then you do the air to throw off the other place. Do you know about this, Rob? No. this is pretty cool. Tell them about it. So when I'm trying to remember which vote that was, was that the rock draw or Zeke? And then you air. Yes. So to try to throw off that, I flipped my vote.

I wrote down Zeke, but then air wrote Hannah to try to make them think that I flipped my vote. I wrote down Zeke, but then air-wrote Hannah to try to make them think that I was voting one way but not the other to try to get somebody to play an idol. Was that the raw tour or was that the final nine where I voted out Zeke?

Yes, I wrote down Zeke but air-wrote Hannah. What do you mean you air-wrote Hannah? You can kind of see how many letters people are writing. So I wrote down Zeke four letters and then I air wrote two letters, like an A H and I did it really exaggerated. So they're not, are they listening to the pen stroke?

Like, uh, and then Adam does play an idol, right? Does that, is that you, did you force that? Adam told me after the fact that he was looking at my right arm

to see how many letters I wrote and the pen strikes. Players get to trick themselves. And that's kind of what I was going for. I didn't think it would work, but in that moment, yeah, Adam told me it did. I don't know if that was really what threw him over the edge to playing the idol or if he was going to play it anyway. Very smart. Yeah. T-Bird, anything else for Will? let's throw him over the edge to playing the idol or he was going to play it anyway, but. Very smart.

Yeah. Anything else for Will? Yes. But just one more thing I just want to mention. We lost a cast member, Mama Kim here recently. And I know Sunday was such a huge, beautiful person and it looked like your whole cast pulled together and we're so close with that i just i did want to mention sunday what a beautiful beautiful person and i know it affected y'all as it affected a lot of us yes sunday was the glue for our cast afterwards and she really

she was one person that i really kept in a lot of contact with. And her family is just so beautiful and amazing. And it was a really, really sad loss. Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for having me. It's been a long time since I've done one of these podcasts. And it was a lot of fun.

I remember after the season was over that you sat down with Jordan Parhar to talk about your Survivor experience. Yes, Jordan. That was a fun interview too. I absolutely love Jordan Parhar. Yeah. Okay. Will, anything you want to tell people to check out? Yeah, so

my Instagram is just Will underscore Wall and I post a little bit on there. It's been a while since I've been on Twitter, but with Season 50 coming up, maybe I'll have to start posting a little bit more about Survivor stuff. That's what we do at Wall. It's a good strategy. It's a good strategy, Bill. It's a good strategy. Because you're always thinking ahead.

I know you are. He's a smart guy. It's fun to me about Survivor. Yeah. Good. Okay. Will, thank you for making some time to catch up with us here on Talking with T-Bird. Thank you.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Okay. Thank you, Will. Take care, Will. All right, everybody. There you have it. Will Wall. Will Wall.

So, Rob, 26 years old now. A lot of people don't even play before they're 26. Yeah. Where did the time go? I know. And Rob, look at look at all he's done in these last few years so he's i think he's like so neat and then playing at 18 i think he played such a mature just his whole game was like for an 18 year old they couldn't

have picked he was ahead of his time for sure he had some ideas. He was definitely ahead of his time. He's a smart guy. He's got to be proud of how he played to get that far down. The cast was amazing. Full cast. I did not have any good ideas about anything at 18 years old.

I only had bad ideas. Well, anyway. It would be many years later until I would have one good idea. What was the one good idea and how many years later was it? Can't say on the podcast. Okay. All right. Yeah, he was wonderful.

Life has taken quite a change in the last year in a good way. Sure, sure. Okay, what's next for you, T-Bird? Rob, I think we just have a couple of podcasts left before Survivor starts up. You got people in the pipeline? You got it ready to go? This is where I'm supposed to say, yes, I do, but I don't. I've got a couple of things out there, but I don't have anything. Audience, you know what to do. Tell T-Bird what you want. At T-Bird Cooper, send it to me. And a lot of times I'll try to answer everybody back. They'll ask me about people

that I have been working on for five years. So send them to me and I'll keep working on them. All right. Thank you so much for joining us for another Talking With T-Bird. You can listen to all of the back episodes of Talking With T-Bird in our Talking With T-Bird podcast feed

at robinswebsite.com slash tbirdfeed. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye. be the same Cause we're talking with T-Bird now This T-Bird you cannot

change Oh And things might get pretty strange