RHAP: We Know Survivor - The Pride Has Spoken | Episode 17: Andy Rueda

Episode Date: June 15, 2025

This episode features Survivor 47 contestant Andy Rueda.

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please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome back to The Pride Has Spoken. My name is Grace Leder, but of course I'm not alone. I'm here with Evy. Evy, how are you doing? How's it going? I'm Evy Jogoda. I was on Survivor Season 41.

I use they, them pronouns and I am thrilled to be here. We have another amazing guest today. I'm very excited about today's couple. My name is Grace. I said that, but my pronouns are she her. And yeah, just a lovely, a highly requested guest, I have to say. There was like a lot of when the first episode came out with Asia, there was a lot of in the comments like, and are you talking to Andy? Are you talking to baby Andy? Are you going to be talking to Andy?

You should probably talk to Andy. And so we've done it. We're talking, we're talking to Andy. We talked to Andy. It was amazing. It was fantastic. We're at the midway point of this season. And I just feel like all the conversations have been fantastic and different. And the Andy one is no exception. And we have some amazing ones coming up after that, that I think you all will like. So listen here, stay tuned. Yes. Super excited for what we have for the rest of the season, but very excited for people to chat,

to hear the chat with Andy. But before we do, we have a couple of announcements about the merchandise. So we are raising money for the Trevor Project this year. And this year, basically we have added more items, not just the shirt we offshore, we had the buff. Now we have hoodies and we have a mug and we have stickers. So there's other things you can buy the hats, unfortunately.

And I'm because I went to order a hat and then I got a notification that I could not buy the hat. And that's because the logo was too small. And then they actually went to adjust the logo and it just said Pride. And it looked very weird and not good. So I think we're not going to have the hats unless we can like figure something out. But but kind of don't get your hopes up would be my thing.

And I know people had their hopes up because it was a cool bucket hat. And it was called a dad hat, which I kind of. Yeah, we're very sorry. We will work on hats for next year. But there are amazing t-shirts and sweatshirts and mugs and stickers. And remember that all the money from that is going to the Trevor Project, which is the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention platform for LGBTQ people in the United States and especially young people. And it's just so important to support this cause right now. There is so much anti-gay and anti-trans

propaganda and legislation happening right now and young queer people and LGBTQ plus people of all identities really need this support. And again, as like the government is cutting hotlines and things like this, the Trevor Project has never been more important. So please, please buy your hats. Sorry. Sorry. You can't buy hats. Buy your shirts. Buy your shirts and stickers. And while you can't buy a hat, you can buy that Andy's buy. But nice. Nice.

That's very good. Yeah. I was going to buy a dad hat. But we do have a dad hat. Buy a buy a regular hat from somewhere else. I'll buy a sticker and then put the sticker on the good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was a dad hat. But we do have a dad hat. You could buy a regular hat from somewhere else and buy a sticker and then put the sticker on the hat. Perfect. Yeah. But the other thing, the extra incentive to buy the merchandise, is anybody who buys a piece of merchandise,

you'll get an email where you can enter into a drop or some items, including some Zoom calls with the host of The Pride is Spoken. People have been on The Pride is Spoken. All sorts of fun things for you to do. So that's an extra incentive. You were like, I don't know if I just want... And that's what the stickers are great for. The stickers, because you can... And it might be a little weird. They're like at different prices and you're like, I'm just getting a sticker. But the point of that is that you can buy a thing that you want and you'll get entered into the raffle, I guess is what we're calling it. So yeah, use the hashtag the Pride has Spoken and

send some love to Andy, our guests, and all of our other guests along the way. I think that's it for our preamble. So we'll just let people get to the interview, I think, right, Ebby? I think that's right. Let's do it. Okay, it is my honor to welcome to the pride has spoken,

the bisexual king of season 47 himself, Andy. Let's go, Andy. Thank you so much for being here. I am so excited to be here. I just listened to Teeny's episode and I just agree, like I resonate with that in so many different ways because I have been in the RGP world for years. I've been such a super fan wanting to get on the show. This series is honestly one of the best things

that RGP has ever produced. And it's just, it's so amazing to hear the stories behind the stories because Survivor is amazing with people that they put on the show. But, you know, there's only so many time, only so much time in an episode, in a season, not everyone gets to have their full story told. And so I like, this is just the perfect platform for me

to just like talk about everything, both in Survivor and outside of it. So I'm so excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're so excited to have you here. Yeah. Yes, we're so excited to have you here. And I really, yeah, I think that really is like the core of what we're trying to do here is like, you know, Survivor is trying to tell a specific story. And obviously, there was so much of your gameplay and like all these things and your emotions that were part of the story.

And I think, you know, it makes sense that probably your sexuality wasn't like the main thing happening. But I think all we got was, I'm bi, flashes of under the screen. The way I kind of love that though, and we can get into that, but in a way, it's kind of like almost ideal.

And we can like bounce back and forth, but just like if we want to start with that one scene, I think it's so cool looking back that just the small like funny frankness of that one scene with John compared, and then, you know, like combined with my prominence on the season and myself becoming a big character, it's one of, it's like, it's a type of representation that I'm really happy with. And I think it

definitely scratched like a big itch in terms of survival representation, both in the new era and just that large. And so that I do have so much love for that, that little scene in the premiere, my favorite scene in the premiere. You know what I mean? So yeah, I was really happy with it. No, yeah, that makes so much sense. And I think, yeah, I think you're the first bisexual man we've had on The Pride Is Spoken,

and I think that really is an underrepresented story and type of person in general in society. So like, this is fantastic. We're so glad to have you here. Thank you. That was definitely something on top of my mind going through passing, we could talk about that out on the island.

But not just like, so I feel like I could be the first person to ever say the word by on Survivor. I'm pretty sure that's true. And at the time, I don't know, like you're dealing with a lot when you're, the airing of the season is happening and, you know, you're thinking about all these different things, but in retrospect, I just love to claim that little piece

of trivia, right? Because I agree, like, I am one of the very few openly by men to have played at the, you know, at the time of filming, I think maybe the second. So I think I'm the first ever who did not also make the White Lotus. I think him and me. And so definitely, again, yeah, like I think the new era,

one of the emblematic things about it is creating a full tapestry of everything across all these different lines. And I'm really happy to like fill in my little gap. So, yeah, I love it. You haven't written the White Lotus yet. You know, don't sell your house. Yeah, the next White Lotus is coming from Mandy. Yeah.

Well, we could start. I mean, we could. I mean, we were into survivor things. So I feel like we normally like to go like way back, which is like, you know, when did you know you were by? Did you know what was your first know you were by, did you, you know, what was your first coming out moment? For sure.

Wherever you want to start. I think a lot of people probably gonna help me sort everything out. It's such an interesting journey to look back on because it's something that like took place over the course of my whole life. And I think a running theme is how it intersected with representation in media.

And I think that plays a big role in you trying to find out your identity and like your stake in the world by looking at TV. And I've always been a reality TV fanatic. Survivor's not even the first show that I felt, reality show that I fell in love with, but I mean, I think- We didn't know that actually. We might have to ask you.

No, I'm just kidding. As far back as I can remember, I always had crushes on people. A huge theme of the whole first half of my life is unrequited crushes, just getting really, really into people from afar. And it was girls, like definitely for like the first six or seven years of my life, definitely like I would have crushes before, like when I was four years old, I had a crush. And so that was something I've always, I never doubted, you know what I mean? But I think one of the things about bisexuality, I think it comes with so many misconceptions, right? And media always plays a big part in that.

And I just feel like as I was growing and trying to figure out my identity, I would look to media and there just was no box I could put myself in, because there was no representation for bisexuality or like very, very few, you know, examples. And that kind of, I don't want to say it set me back or whatever, but it's just like, it played a big role in it. Right. But just going chronologically, I feel like the first moment was, um, I'm a millennial, so NSYNC. So everyone was, NSYNC was all the rage back in boys too.

I was a big NSYNC fan, but that was kind of, if memory serves me right, it was pretty normalized. Like the other boys in my school, like NSYNC too, I don't know how old we were, seven or eight, I don't know. But the way that I was into Lance Bass was so, like looking back, there's no going back from that. Like I had a picture of him like under my bed

and I didn't have a frame of reference for what that was, but it's definitely real, you know what I mean? It was definitely something that like I was kind of, I was aware of, right? But of course, Lance Bass at the time, a closeted gay man, which I feel like was an under reported piece of the I feel like he was like the number one crush of most people and a lot of people in NSYNC. And then of course, he turns out to be gay.

And it just like it's like, I mean, in retrospect, not a huge surprise, but it feels like a cornerstone feature in a lot of people's. I was just so into him as an eight year old, like the hair and the fact that he never even got any lines in the songs. Like I just like, I'm just like, he's so underrated. I was, anyway, I was, and then he got this like big movie opportunity. I remember that and I was just so into it. And he was like playing straight guy.

I remember it was like a big love interest, but I did not care about the girl in that, in that, in that example. Is this on the line? Is this the movie On the Line? Yeah, for sure. It was on the line. Yeah. But anyway, this is such a fan's best. I was such a big fan of his. But I think we all, Debbie, do you have like a first, you were like, oh, there's something happening here. Because I know mine is Jonathan Taylor Thomas. That's that's like, oh, yeah.

Okay. All right. I don't know. I had so many. I was always like cosplaying as the male lead of all the Disney things. And so as I was getting older, I would still like crush on a different girl every year. And like that was like kind of a constant. But it wasn't until like every year I would have a crush on a different person. It was like girl, girl, girl, girl, girl. Up until fifth grade,

there was one boy in my class and that was like the first real life moment I had. I had such a big crush on him. And, but I didn't, again, like going back to like media and like how I understood the world, I just didn't, I didn't have like a place to put that feeling. I didn't have a frame of reference.

So I just knew I was feeling something strong, but I didn't, you know, I couldn't put two and two together necessarily until the end of fifth grade. I learned he was moving and that was like so it was so shattering. And it's like I couldn't there's just something I couldn't deny anymore because I'm just like, but I love him. Like, he's like, actually funny story is he ended up moving. Yeah. Then my whole life went by and then four months ago, I was at a bar with some friends and I saw him. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Didn't hold up was he? Yeah, I was. Yeah. He looks like proportional, like, you know, like he just see it. Well, I did not talk with him, but it was kind of like a private past lives moment, maybe a little bit. Do you think he remembers? He's like, that guy Andy I went to fifth grade with was on Survivor. Maybe I don't know. Maybe if I talked with him, I would have figured that out.

But I just want to be, which is fine. Yeah. But it's no way could live up to the fifth grade fantasy anyway. Yeah, 100%. Don't ruin it. But so that happened in fifth grade. And then I think it was such a pivotal time because, you know, in my like school district, fifth grade is like elementary school and you go to middle school and then all these new things are happening.

And middle school, just in general, really shook me. I had to like, I felt very happy and included as a kid. And then going into my adolescence, and I've been very open about this, like, that's when things like I started retreating and I started, you know, think, you know, different social hierarchies started forming and I was unable to like, keep up with that, like in general, right. So it was like a difficult time. But over those, like that middle school sort of period of time, I felt like I was still questioning that I was still kind of on top of my mind. And

I was basically I had something that a lot of people go through is like I was like afraid I was gay, you know what I mean? Like it was so not accepted. You know, every every town might be different, but just like, you know, two thousands suburban Buffalo, like it just didn't apply. Right. So I was just like afraid of that. And I was questioning and I was just uncertain. That was about the time that like I was starting to get very into reality TV and you know, the 2000s was like a reality TV boom. Right.

And you would see different representations. You would see gay men like in prominent roles, maybe, you know, not in perfect bits of representation. Right. But do you remember, were you following Richard Hatch? Was that was that a moment for you? I feel like that's that's that's a path along several people's stories. That's a good question. Was Survivor actually like I was I was a total casual. I only had watched All Stars up to that point and like bits and pieces of other seasons.

I really got into Survivor in college and I started. But I maybe heard of Richard Hatch, but I was definitely more about MTV. I was watching like Jersey Shore and crap, but I was watching the real world and I was watching the challenge. Nothing hits like playoff hockey. The road to the Cup starts on FanDuel. I was watching the real world and I was watching the challenge. Get more from the game with live overtime markets. Download FanDuel today and get more playoff action with North America's number one sports book. Please play responsibly. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you,

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with iGaming Ontario. I think another sort of landmark moment was there was no bi-man representation on the real world until 2011. So maybe I'm going into high school at this point, but there's a guy named Frank. He was on Real World San Diego. And this was like a very, this is the very first time I felt something in terms of identifying

with someone on reality TV. And I didn't really have a frame of reference of what bisexual men, how they move, what they look like until this season. And then he like, was open about it and it became a big storyline. And I got really fixated on him. I was like really interested in that. And that kind of like was a powerful moment. But and like I don't want to cast the aspersions or judgment on reality TV contestants. But as that season went on and he wanted to do the challenge, like from my memory, he like was such a shit show personality. I was like, oh, like not my role model. On the challenge?

I don't know. Yeah. Well, and that is the hard thing, right? When there's only one or just a few representatives, then, you know, all the individual flaws of that person become that's what a bisexual man is or, you know, whatever. And of course, that's not true. And that's why you need, bisexual people should be allowed to be messy on reality TV

and it shouldn't have to be like, well, that's what all bisexual people are, right? Right. So like there was a part of me that was like super into that that like was having a moment like of understanding, but maybe it kind of as his portrayal got more and more negative, I backed off. And then I fell back to something that's really common, I'm sure with five people, you know,

like, I'm like, well, like, I, I'm still into women and it actually takes up so much of my mental like, let me just retreat to that. Like, I think this is like, I could be totally fine living my life just along those lines. And like essentially that's where I was for a really long time. So that was like, okay, high school going into college. Just like this is like, from a third party point of view, and especially looking back, it's just very clear what's going on. It's like, I am bisexual and I'm struggling to find like a place to like really like hang my hat and accept that. But that was where I was at for for quite a while

as I was like living my life and going through college and and finally starting to date exclusively women at the time. Right. So. And that's just to say, like, and that's so classic of like, I think so many identities, like I feel like I totally had that. And like, I didn't even realize like how gay I was. I kind of thought if I really am like being honest about my thoughts, I think I kind of thought maybe I was a little bit.

I was like, I know I'm attracted to women. Oh, that's scary. But like, this is fine. Like dating boys is fine. And I was like, I think less into boys than you are to women because I'm not bi, but like you have the, it's the most natural thing for your brain to be like, well, this is fine. Like, cause you don't know what is outside that, right?

And you don't know if you, if you're thinking of sexuality also only as like, who are my dating versus like also like how am I perceiving myself? How is the world perceiving me? What is it? What boxes am I in? You know, like, like it's the most natural thing on earth. Like, yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's of course, it's like a point of privilege that I have. I'm like I'm like examining the situation.

I'm like, OK, I present in a certain such a way where like people don't really like take it upon themselves to question what I am and um like I have interest in women and I can just pursue that and just live that life. You know I have a family that's very loving, very big and great um but you know there are conservatives among my family you know what I mean? So it's just like um it was so, it's privileged to be like, to just be like, it's so convenient to just live this way. But I mean, this can go into like the past few years and what's changed for me, but like, it's as much as it is like an easy way out or whatever,

like it just, like it's so freeing to have gone through what I've gone through recently and just put all of myself out there and gone through all of that, those hard, scary moments and come out the other side. And now like I feel completely my authentic self. And so that's, that's great. And that's where I'm at now. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, it's like, I feel bad for you being like, well, I took it was the easy way out. Like it, like, there is like a safety thing that we do to like, you know, it is like a natural thing to just be like, no, I'll just do this thing. And that's a little bit easier to figure out at the time. But also like, it's not like, you know, because I feel like we've had a lot of by people out recently who are like, and it is true, there is like some by, there is some by privilege. And also there is like

a really shitty thing about the way that people assume like that that's an easier, you know, being by is easier in some way because like, you know, there's this extra thing that you have to figure out in terms of like, you know, being, it's just about being authentically yourself, you know? And so it's, it's like, it's so sad to really, it's more about that society sucks that it is about any, you know, thing that any individual person is doing. I don't blame anybody for like, you know, not coming out when they come out or whatever, but it's like, you don't because you're worried that yeah, your, your relationships, your experiences, the way people perceive you will be changed.

And that's such a shitty thing that bi people are forced into, like, heteronormativity, you know? Right. Yeah. And I think it's such a classic thing that people say to bi people when they come up to them of like, well, why don't you just pick one?

Or why don't you just date women? Because that'll make your life easier. You know, like, that is a classic thing people are told. And so like, it's a very normal brain pattern to be like, that is scary. Like what, you know, yeah. I think I was going to say, we, we, we've had a lot of people who are at a very similar age, I think in a year, very similar in age to, I think you're just a bit, a little bit young, like two years younger than us, I think, Debbie and I.

So it's also like, I know we talk about like at different times it was worse, but they're like, literally they had to send out Hillary Duff to try to like get people to stop saying that's okay. Like it was like, it was, and I feel like there was this very complicated thing where it was almost like the, there was times where it was like anger and hate that was like being thrown around about, but then there was also a way in which like one of my experiences of like being in middle school was actually the way that like, it was really confusing for me when all the boys were like kind of pretending to be gay. You know, like there was like the joking of like of like being effeminate. And then you're like, this is very confusing for me because I think you're

doing it as a joke. But for me, it's very real, you know? And it's like, yeah. So, yeah, anyway, no, like, and even today, and like, not in a bad way, but like, the staple of like, yeah, so, yeah, anyway. No, like even today and like not in a bad way, but like the staple of like bro humor is just like pretend like like telling each other that you're their pookie bear and that you love them. And then it's just so funny for me. I'm like, I mean, is that true? That's still a super bro culture today of like. Yeah, it is. It is.

Kind of a is it like mocking or is it more like genuine? I'm like, is it trying to be like, this is actually what, you know, male friends could actually what their relationships actually look like. What it is in a not so bad way is like, it signals that the guy is not toxic and or not easy. They're like, they're signaling security and their masculinity to like, you know, be a part of like a like a bromance and like, I don't know, but it is right. But it's like, but it's like, character, like, like cartooning it, like, like, like, like, hug, we have to be

like, pookie bear to like, make it like this is obviously a joke, but it's also affection is that kind of Yeah, yeah. Have you seen the trend right now of people calling their friends to say good night to them? Have you heard that's my favorite one? And then you genuinely see how much like especially men, I think, need actual affection because they're like, this is so sweet. Like, like, why don't you just do this normally? Just do it.

I do it. Yeah, do it. I don't know. That's so sweet. But like what we were saying, it's just kind of like coming out no matter where you are in life, it's just like it's a leap. It's like jumping into a cold pool. You know what I mean? And so if you have any excuse, like it could like, it's kind of like it helps in a way,

but in a way it doesn't really help because it just belongs that moment that I guess you need to have or like that it's really great to be in a pool, you know, and like be acclimated. But so that's where I was at for a long time, like through college just kind of like identifying as straight. And like internally, like I put that in the back burner and like wasn't constantly questioning it anymore. It's just like, that's just kind of how I was sort of moving. And it was like that for a while. The only little blip was some reality TV representation

that actually resonated with me and like stuck was when I got really into Survivor, got really into Big Brother, and then into Big Brother Canada, it was Kevin Martin. And sort of his like just total openness with like his sexuality, I don't remember the exact label that he used, but like he was definitely identified as very fluid while like just kind of being very happy and comfortable to be outside of any box. And that was something that like, it really made me sort of stop and sort of revisit how I viewed myself.

And so that's kind of like, what's great. And like, I think reality TV is so interconvenient with like my life and my story, right. And so that shows the progress over that maybe like 10 year period to like that point. So, and I didn't watch that one that aired. So I was like, I was watching Big Brother Candidate 3 during COVID. So like that's up to that point. I was like, oh, like, okay. Like it's like, you know, we're seeing more diverse stories.

Shout out also to Turner, right? They really 24. And then that also like was something that helped me. So that pretty much leads into my casting journey for Survivor. So I say quickly about Kevin Martin that I thought it doesn't get talked about probably because it was on Big Brother Canada. But the fact that like he was in like a show man's with a guy and a

girl I feel like is like not Yeah, he was in a show man's indifferent. I believe I think. Kind of with Will. Right. I was that so he comes in his first season, Big Brother Canada three, and he's in a very, very serious show man's with a girl who he ends up dating for a very long time. I think right before that he was in a flirt man. So he was kind of like flirting with

the gay guy in the season. And I just like, I don't know how I don't know how serious it got. I wasn't looking at the feeds or whatever. He comes back for Big Brother Canada Five. He like was committed to Peely up to that point, but then they were on a break. So he was like single going into his next season and he was in a, certainly I would call it a show manse

with a guy. Wow, that is really freaking cool. Honestly, that is so cool. Yeah, it was really cool. Right. But and again, I'm not the expert. My girlfriend, Shannon, is more the expert. We'll get into all that. But I think from what I gather, it was cool.

But people had all types of opinions about it. Right. Sure. You know, queer baiting, whatever you think. Yeah, I remember that being true. He's not owning this. So there was criticism, right? And that falls into like, I don't know, like, people just get really confused. Yeah, bisexuality and what it means and, you know, how people can, I don't know, just like, and what it means and how people can, I don't know, just like do things. So I mean, I think we're really, I feel like this is like,

I really do feel like bisexuality is like really at the forefront right now in this discussion. I mean, especially in the like, a fab community like Fletcher and Jojo Siwa who are like two previously like lesbian identifying. So like, Big brother contestant Jojo Siwa? Yes, celebrity big brother contestant Jojo Siwa.

And then who now are in relationships with men. And there's a lot of like upsetness at them from the from queer people and from lesbians. And like, it's really sad because it's like at the end of the day, all we're all everybody should be trying to do is be themselves. And like that is the point of queer liberation is like trying to do is be themselves. And that is the point of queer liberation. It's like everyone gets to be themselves, whatever that is. And we shouldn't be putting ourselves in these self-imposed boxes,

even within our own community. That's so horrible. And I can feel the feeling that people have of like, oh my gosh, we have so few queer celebrities. Oh, why can't you be exactly what I want you to be? Why can't you represent me exactly how I want to be? And like, you know, like, and yeah, it's just like, I can see why that can be like painful for people. I mean, that's the classic thing of the difference

between an imaginary character and a real person is that they are, you know, need to be themselves, not who they're written to be. But that makes me sad that that was the experience of that. But I'm glad that that, I'm sorry, what's his name? Kevin. I'm glad that he existed. I wonder next season,

maybe we'll have to try to track him down. Yeah, I mean, but from my point of view, like he always like took things in stride and I would always like, what resonated with me was his security and his identity and like, he was unapologetic, you know what I mean? He's a very confident individual. Yeah. Yeah.

That's great. But so, okay, like I'm at this stage, I am applying to be on Survivor actively. I wanna be on Survivor. I also apply for Big Brother, but let's strike that. I'm putting in a lot of tapes, right? But anyway, this kind of like thing of like sort of revisiting my identity and what I'm able to like acknowledge to myself was sort of percolating again

after being dormant for quite a while. And then I got that first email from Survivor. Now this is the end of 2022. So this is for Survivor 45. I got an email from Casting. And I always just to like, as a side note, almost like I have so much like love and I want to like always like speak to the people who want to be on Survivor because it's such a it's such a specific thing. I like a dream that like the few of us share right and it's like um but it's such a

just a wild process and if you ever get contacted it's filled with ups and downs. I've experienced these ups and downs more than once, maybe more than twice. You know what I mean? But what casting can be if you progress, it's like, it's such an opportunity for introspection as you are like encapsulating who you are, what your life story is, telling it to new people like every round. But when I got that first email, it was like lightning striking because I felt like this was the moment

and all of a sudden all of these things were going through my head and I really felt like I was gonna be on Survivor. And as I went through the process, I think one of the things that they picked up on, which was completely authentic and true to myself was like, my journey, sort of like in the last few years of recognizing that, like I'm making all the progress in my life that I am through being my authentic self. And I would, I spent my teenage years and my college years filled with being like

whatever, not being able to fit in because I kept putting myself in boxes that weren't true and authentic to myself. And it was when I came to the realization that I just need to be my open and vulnerable and my authentic self. That has been such a like a lightning rod for all the good things that had happened in my adult life. Like finally finding a great group of friends, like thriving in different ways, education and career and stuff like that. And that was my story. And it was my casting story. I think a lot of people reach out and they're curious about what my casting story was because I don't know. I like my, my survival 47 journey itself was so specific and dynamic.

Uh, you kind of like, well, like, well, you know, like what was the saying before, before survivor? But anyway, it was like, I have had a huge life changing epiphany that I just want to be my authentic self and that was true. And I was vulnerable in these interviews and like 100% until my casting person was like, Oh, by the way, I'm just curious. Like, you know, like, who do you date? Like, what do you like?

I'm going to like you. I'm straight. And I'm like, well, actually, this is like your voice lowered four octaves. Because it felt that weird coming out of my mouth. Yeah. Yeah. This is the first line I'm telling in casting and because I'm like, you know, like I'm, I'm re-investigating it, but I'm not ready. And like, I just like the idea of maybe being on Survivor 45 in a few months and like that being a big part of my like public persona is like, I'm not ready for that.

I'm like, I'm just like. Yeah, it's been so interesting. It's so interesting because like, yeah, if you apply to be on a show, you're trying to put yourself in the situation that you're the most appealing to go on the show. And it's been so interesting to see so many people like, with it, like, I mean, this is what Asia was talking about, about like not being ready for like, the, like what seemed to be finality of that choice of saying like, okay, and that's so interesting because it's so many other places. Like, this is what you're saying is that like, okay, and that's so interesting because in so many other places,

like this is what you're saying is that like, you were so comfortable. And then there's this one thing that you're like, actually no. And so we're actually, and like, an aversion to the like vulnerability because it's like, I don't actually have it figured out. And I feel like it's really important that I figured it out

and I don't wanna do that on national television. You know, I think it's so, yeah, it's really fascinating. For sure. And so like that was like definitely something that was like kind of happening during during cast. But I kept going getting further and further. I made it to the very last stage. And then I did not get on Survivor 45. And then that was like this just big moment where I was just like,

I was like, I was just more vulnerable than I've ever been before to like strangers and stuff like that. I completely put myself out there. And like the stakes were as high as can be because this is my life dream. Like this is something that like, like destiny to me. And I just missed out. That was like a big moment of reflection because I tried to like weigh a lot of different things in my head. I was like, you know, when you get that far on casting, okay, that's a good sign, right? But there's no guarantee they'll ever contact you again.

So that could have been it. Like I could have missed my shot. And then you go, things go through your head like, should I have been more open? Should I have said that? Like, you know, would that have made that slight difference? And you're like, damn. It's the most survivor casting is like the most toxic relationship that you will ever have in your life.

They they say they'll call and they don't for a long time. You're just waiting on and you never know. Exactly. And if you ever like anyone who's like a hope worker, you're going to get something like definitely get ready for that. But I do want to say maybe on the on the positive side, maybe not. And you just never know. Exactly, and if you ever, like anyone who's like a Hope Worker or a bookie guest, you know, definitely get ready for that. But I do want to say, maybe on the positive side, and maybe not to give them too much credit, I don't know, but on the positive side, I had so many open and vulnerable conversations

in all those rounds of casting that were like coming straight from the hard things I didn't anticipate, you know, like I didn't come in with a script, I was just like, like, let's talk about it. And that truly was such an eye-opening process for me to go through that was kind of transformative and clarifying for what my life story is and where I'm at. And I came out of that and it got really complicated, but it leads up to, honestly,

probably the most beautiful day of my life. And so much of my queer story, so much of my survivor story is really culminates in one specific day, which I'll get to in a second, but it was May 24th, 2023, the Survivor 44 finale. But I was cut the end of March going through like these sort of sad feelings. I think I met you around that time, if you're at Franny's 44 premiere,

if you remember, or I remember we talked. You and I have met a few times. Yeah, we met. Yeah, so definitely in a Bryson Wentz, probably around that time. I think so, right, because I again, like for some context, like I would I would go going to Bryce and Wentz for years just as a fan and part of like. Oh, yeah, that's true.

We met at the 42 know it all thing also, I think maybe. Probably. Yeah, there's some. You know what I mean? But the thing is, if you are a fan and I relate to this, like, you know what I mean? Like you go and if you like want to be on Survivor, you like you go and you're like, it's cool to be with the fans. And players walk in, and you're like, oh my God, these people achieved what I want.

Like, if only I could be on that side of the fence. That is, everything will change, everything will be better. Spoiler alert, that's not exactly how. What? Oh man. I don't know, my life is perfect now, so. Yeah, but like, so, I got so close and I didn't get it. And I was like, just like dealing with that.

And then this is so funny and much love to Austin. I love Austin, but like, then the inside survivor thing came out and like, there's like this guy, he like, look, he looks more like me than anyone. I print him on survivor. I'm like, when you go through casting and you're like putting yourself out there and you progress, you feel so special. You just feel so like, oh my God, like the light is shining on me.

And then you get caught. And then like some guy who looks like you quote unquote is like on the thing. You're like, oh my, you feel so not special, right? Right. And that was like difficult. So I'm kind of like going through all of these difficult feelings being cut from casting and like, blah, blah, blah.

It didn't almost happen, but it didn't happen. But after some reflection, I came out of that being like, I'm not, it's like, whether or not it would have been good to say it's been casting, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't matter. The things that I learned through that casting process were true, extremely clarifying for me. And it is 100% the case that all the good things in my life have come through learning to be authentically myself and being vulnerable. And I do want to just whether or not casting ever contacts me again, I think one of the things I could take from this is to take that all the way. And it was that April that I was like, ready to come out and be like, yeah, I am by it by and I'm

going to like, tell people about it slowly, but like, I'm going to tell people about it. And so that was kind of like a, again, like an another big step. Now we can get to the Survivor 44 finale. Now this is like there was a big party in Brooklyn. The whole 44 cast had flew in. This is a Bryson one I think, right? So I'm getting ready to go to that. I hear that the 45 cast they're done filming and they're going to be there. I'm like, Oh my god, like, you know, like, I don't know, like, it's such a weird, surreal thing.

Like all these groups of people who like, I could have played survivor with, they're gonna be there. Okay, that's something I'll have to deal with or whatever. But my sister and my brother were both in town. My brother lives in New York. My sister lives in Buffalo where I grew up, but she's visiting. They're not where I grew up, but she's visiting

They're not like big survivor people but like they're gonna go like they like we're gonna hang out and we're gonna go to the survivor 44 finale together and I don't think I pre-planned this but we like got brunch that morning and i'm like, you know I am close to my siblings. We've got such a very good stable Relationship, they're gonna be the first human beings that I tell I was horrified. Like, I was very, very scared. I basically had to constantly talk myself into not inject from the situation, right?

Yeah. And I just like, I told them and again, like they're such like understanding cool people. I don't think there's any conscious risk of like a reaction, but it's just like, I think my experience is the longer you've known someone, the harder it is to say it was. You're risking more. You're risking, you're like, it never feels like you're like, I'm a hundred percent sure. Like, yeah, maybe. But it always just feels like what you had, you're going to lose. And there was a, I was just talking about this about a show.

I was watching an episode of Schitt's Creek where Patrick comes out and it's like, it's not that you're, sometimes you're not worried that like they're going to disown you. You're just worried that like the dynamic like shifts, like everything changes and that as soon as it comes out, it happens and your relationship is not what it was before. And like the thing that's like most of the time it's better. I think hopefully, and there are people like, it's so unfortunate. Some people do have a worse relationship. You know, like that is, that is unfortunately the reality of the world, but like, yeah, it's just at like 1% chance that like this all goes badly and I have, you know, but you have to do it. Yeah. But in that 99% chance,

which definitely hit like makes it deeper. Yeah, you know, authentically. Yeah, but I was like most afraid because I was like, I was clinging to and protective of how they felt about me before. And the idea of that changing is just inherently scary to your family members. You know what I mean? But yeah, and it's very wrapped up right in your own self image is like how these core people in your life see you and like, what will that mean if they see me in this other way, especially if you've, you know, yeah, been in the closet and you're

like, you've never really lived out in that way. So you don't even know what that version of you all the way looks like. Right. And then to like see it through these other people's eyes and they're processing it for the first time, you know. Yeah, it's very intense. Like I always say, like, no matter if you have like the most accepting, you could have like gay siblings. It's still stressful to come out, like because that is a huge

like you're making a huge statement. And it's just like it. I think sometimes people have like shame that it's hard to come for them to come out when they have like overly accepting people in their life. But it's just like it is such it's a big deal no matter who you are, no matter what the circumstances, you know? I think that I tell people all the time is, is like, I think it's best to have a plan and a plan doesn't mean

like, oh, it's going to go so bad. But like have somebody you can text you to like, just like, be like, I did it. And how did it, you know, like, I guess that's hard if you've never been out, if you haven't been out, but like, you know, uh, you can message, message one of us, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. For me, it was like that positive starting point. And then it went well enough for him, like, okay, I'm just going to like, over the next few weeks, I'm going to tell people, like, I, you know, I have plenty of friends who are going to just, they're going to actively celebrate this, like they're going to love this. You know what I mean? So, yeah. So that felt felt good and help freeing just to get it out there once. And so it's like, OK, like this is great.

It was kind of healing in a way, because I'm still like, honestly, like in a funk for like missing out on my dream. Right. OK. I was like, all right, let's go to this party. You know, Bryson went to their big party, you know, especially that one's like huge. And I was like at the time going through grad school, definitely like head down, like working very hard. I haven't, I had taken this big pause from dating. So I hadn't seen anyone like in a very long time. And it was funny in my mindset. I'm like, whatever, it was a big party and I just feel very like free and open. So like, maybe I'll like meet someone.

It couldn't be anyone. It could be a man or a woman, right? So like, that was kind of funny. Like I was going into this like big whatever party, like with that, I guess prospect or like that possibility. But then we go to the Bryson Wands. So like this is in Brooklyn. So many people were there. Like it's kind of like, like literally,

like it's such a foundational thing. Like I think Asia and Teenie were both there. Like it's kind of like, like literally, like it's such a foundational thing. Like I think Asia and Teeny were both there. Teeny I had never seen before Survivor, but like he was there. Asia was there. Like it's just so funny how those 45 cast was there. Right. Yeah. And actually, so with I think you mean the future cast of the Pride is Spoken 2025. I think you mean the future cast of the Pride is Spoken 2025. Yeah, exactly.

Everyone. In particular, Brandon, OK, he's like someone that like I actually there's like another event than like before and I like connect with him. And I was like drunk that night and I'm like, I was almost on our season. Like, except me, like, like, you know, you know, I mean, take it under your wing. That's kind of how you feel when you're like in that spot. And he was very great, he did. Like, and like we connected very quickly.

You picked the right person. What is, what is- I picked the right person because then going into this, the Wednesday thing, I see Brandon really early on and he'd be like, we're talking. And he's like, hey, come meet some of my friends. And they're like, he's like, they're from sequester. I'm like, oh my God, who am I about to meet?

I don't know. But he takes me to this group of people and they're like, they look so cool and normal. And then one of them is this girl, Shannon, who Brandon introduces me to. They've known each other for years. And this is the start of like such a huge, amazing part of my life. Oh, my God. Brandon, Donlin, King. Oh, my God.

Yeah. And so there's so many talents like not just timing, but setups, producing podcasts, having amazing hair. Setting people up. Yeah. And so, OK, but like when we actually like me, then she like, I was like, oh my God, like, yeah, this can be something. And then she like turns around and walks away immediately. I'm like, oh, like that's not happening. But then like as the night goes on, the episode is aired.

Jam Jam has been crowned. He's all over the place. And I see her again at the bar and then like I kind of slide in there and like talk to her. And this is really the start of something special. So like, yeah, so that day was a whole thing. I also, by the way, talked with Austin and met him and blah, blah, blah, blah. So it was like an incredibly healing day because like I had come out to myself very like official leading up to that so I came out to my family and felt just very like

became at peace with what was happening with Survivor and then I met someone who was the love of my life right so it was so cute. Yeah, it was so unbelievable. So now I'm like, flying high right now and like things are going well. Shannon and I we connected and like so I was, I was living in Boston at the time and she was living in New York, but she's from Massachusetts. So as it happened, she was going to be in town visiting her family that next weekend. So we set up a date. And you know, it went unbelievably well. So like, this is someone who, like, I ought to, I'm feeling things for that I've never felt before. And it's very, very quick and it's very early. So I feel great. And

then I'm like, Oh my God, like, but I just came out as bisexual and I have to like tell this girl, straight girl, like, right, so like that was like horrifying, right? It was a horrifying realization because I already felt it's like, after that quick amount of time, that I was like falling in love with her. But then again, we go back to the lack of representation, it's just the lack of like awareness

of like these different types of stories where I'm like, I have no idea how a straight woman might think about this because I've never seen that ever. Like I haven't seen that on TV, I have no idea how a straight woman might think about this because I've never seen that ever. Like I haven't seen that on TV. I haven't seen that whatever. So I'm like, this is like really horrifying. And this is like one of the, you know, like people I really feel strongly about that I have to come out to. So nervous. And like, it was just on FaceTime because we were like distance, right? So I just like got it out there. And the way

that she responded, like, couldn't have been more positive and like blew me away. And that's when I, you know, that's when I knew that I was locked in. And so it was so amazing. And like, such a foundational series of events. I knew I was definitely in love. And it's all amazing, right? But the thing is, what was I going to say? So the thing about that is, so as I'm saying this, and I'm like

coming out to like my close friends and stuff like that, and it's like, and then I'm updating them with my life situation, it's all great, everyone's happy for me. But then there's like this kind of question that comes from people who either like are in my life and are like feel like can confide in me or like, you know, ask for like fans and stuff. They're like, okay, they're like, okay, this is amazing. You're bi and you're dating a woman. Like this is great. But like what happened to dating with guys? What happened to dating guys? Like where did that go? Isn't that the point? Right. So, um, it's interesting, right? Like I could never have scripted this or planned this.

And like, it might be a question on people's minds, mostly stemming from, I think, misconceptions about bisexuality. Like, I don't know, like I'm 32 and I view, like, I'm like, I guess a monogamous person, right? So if you're a bisexual, monogamous person, like you're still looking for one person that could just be from, you know.

And just the timing of how your things happen too, like it just happens that way, you know? Well, yeah, yeah. And I think the thing stemming from that question is like, is it implied in validity to you dating a woman, right? Which is like actually a complete misunderstanding of what being is like. You're not gay, you're bisexual, you're dating someone that you love and are attracted to.

And like, clearly, it's like, clearly what you're also describing is that being open about yourself is this is a key part of what makes you uncomfortable and happy and safe in relationship. And one reason why you knew she was someone that you were in love with is because she accepted all the parts of you, right? And it's just as silly to be like, Evy, you're gay. Why are you dating this woman, not that woman? That's basically the same thing, right? At Desjardins Insurance, we know that when you're a building contractor, your company's foundation needs to be strong.

That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs. You put your heart into your company, so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Desjardins.com slash business coverage. The timing is pretty wild because it's like that was the first day where I heard of anybody and I was on the market. And maybe if my story was completely the same and the person for me happened to be a guy, maybe that's much more easy to understand. Maybe that's much more headline grabbing. I don't know, but to me, it doesn't matter at all, right?

Because what's left over, you know, and like, you know, Shannon is the person that, spoiler alert, like is the love of my life and the person I'm gonna marry, right? So. Yeah. We love, we love, we love. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a season of love here on the really has been about like relationships, which is even though I'm locked in, what is still left over and still important is my identity, right. And it really is orthogonal to like, like, and like, dating or seeing, right? But like, it's or like, you know, like, whether, you know, whether or not it's a man or woman, like I'm dating this person, and it's very important that it's just like, everything is that that she knows exactly who I am in every way. And so and again, like,

and I'm so happy to talk about changing like ad nauseam, but like I want to like I'm going to make some space for her. Like like she is my pride month. She is my nomination. I'm submitting her as my nomination for ally of the year. OK, great. Like for just it does blow my mind. Like there's like a straight woman who has a whole dating history of straight men to just fully unquestionably commit to a bi man.

Again, like I've said, there's just like, I've never seen that trope. Like that's just not something like, like, and so, I mean, she takes ally to a whole fucking different level. And I, you know, so like, I just, um, I couldn't like speak more highly of her and like, I mean, she takes ally to a whole fucking different level. And, you know, so like, I just, I couldn't like speak more highly of her and like, Dating a queer person does put you pretty high up in the ally. I don't know, yeah.

It might not even be that much of a problem. She puts her money where her mouth is. Yeah, yeah. No, hell yeah. Have you ever seen, I know that there's, and I think this gets to that. I do think there's a lot more representation of bisexual women than bisexual men. And I think that gets to that. I do think I do think there's a lot more representation of bisexual women than

bisexual men. And I think that gets to also like patriarchy and how it is like, like, yeah, people assume, OK, you're a bisexual man. Like, basically, you're gay because we can't possibly imagine that like that you like, what makes you the expert? Like, how would you know more than me? That always blows my mind. But yeah, people feel very strongly about it. Right.

Of course, like every single, like whatever group you're part of, whatever your identity is, like you have your own specific issues or like specific things that like, like you have to deal with, right? Yeah. And I think of course there's like this really long history

of by doubt, by erasure, because it doesn't, I don't think it fits a worldview in a clean way. And it just, it makes it very difficult. Some people can wrap their heads around it, which is, yeah. Well, and it's like, you know, the idea that like, oh, the person that a straight woman needs to date is like a muscly straight man who like doesn't know how to talk about his feelings and will provide and like that that and like this idea that it'd be like so miraculous that Shannon is into you when it's like oh my god like think about these beautiful parts of your

spirit and soul that you're able to bring to this relationship and like you guys could sometimes I don't know if this is part of your dynamic but you could like geeky a little bit about hot dudes like that's fun. I like doing that with partners. You know, it's just like the the limit, the what you should want in a partner is so like prescriptive. And I think that's really especially put on men and masculine people. I'm like, you need to be this type of way.

And it's like really hard for people to imagine like a blurrier story. And I think like bi women face a different thing where it's like, really hard for people to imagine like a blurrier story. And I think like, bi women face a different thing where it's like, oh, well, when you hook up with a girl that doesn't really count or like that's hot for the male gaze or like something like that. Like there's just like these kind of different ways where it's invalidated in like a yeah, in a number of different features. So it's really freaking cool that we're having this conversation.

I want to say again, Andy. Yeah. And I definitely want to talk about the survivor experience and being out there and then the filming. I do want to take a moment as we're talking about Shannon. And this is me getting really personal. So I will keep it in. That's what we're here for. Yeah.

Good point. That's what we're here for. Good point. Very recently, so, you know, Shannon's mom has been very ill for a very long time. As long as I've known her and she took a pretty bad turn a few months ago. It was just, again, one of these earth-shattering moments, something I'll always sort of take with me over the last few months, like Shannon's mom has been ill and we've been back and forth, we've been in Massachusetts.

And Shannon's mom, Karen, like she's just like, anyone who knows her knows how religious she is and traditional and et cetera, right? But for the timing to have worked out for me to have gotten to know her and to have like a really sort of deep conversation was just me and Karen,

and she was talking about how she, maybe she had a couple of questions or whatever, she like accepted me and approved of me and loved me. It was like, it makes me extremely emotional. She passed away. Oh, I'm so sorry. Recently.

And so it's really, you know, of course a sad, but it just is sort of a blessing, you know, that like when you're coming out and, you know, that, like, when you're coming out and, you know, there's so many things you're afraid of, you're afraid of how your own family's going to view it, how your, you know, people you want to date are going to feel about it, and how like your in-laws, it's kind of like the sort of, like, character of like the final boss, like your... So that was something that was very, that was very beautiful. And I feel so lucky to have taken this leap going into like a wild experience as a survivor

and basically like, essentially like have gotten the best case scenario in terms of how I respond to it. Yeah, I mean, I think about my parents in the way that like I think like, like, I remember, so recently, this will sound like a wild segue, but the new poet, there's a new pope. And my mom, my mom is pretty, but they're not Catholic. And they're talking about like, oh, new pope. And then, and then my mom goes, actually we're not big fans of the new Pope. And it was like five days after the new Pope. And my aunt is like, why? It's like, well, he said that he said he's not for like, you know, like he's not, he's supposed to, to gay marriage. And so I just like sat and was like, is like,

I don't think like, you know, if my, if I hadn't come out to my mom, like I don't think that she would have moved. It takes people in your life who are like, you can have conversation with them. They're willing to learn about you. I think sometimes for, for people's like opinion, like they're very like, you know, longstanding traditions or their assumptions to be changed by like, you know, in your case, like you're, you're yeah.

Shannon's mom, like meeting you and realizing like you're a good person and you are, and then yeah, like accepting you for who you are. Like I think it's, that you for who you are like I think that is such an important piece I think of like yeah getting to know people you know. Definitely yeah and so yeah okay well we'll rewind okay we'll go back to like where we were which was dating Shannon and so there's that year in between casting right so right um all these things are kind of clicking into place for me as I'm like living my life. But me personally, like I was telling myself to like, just give myself back to my life

in many ways I did, but like, Survivor was just such at the top of my mind. And I was like, marking down the days where like casting would start up again, feeling very hopeful, like, you know, really, really wanting it to happen. It took a while, so like, now this is for the 47 and 48 cycle, but I was just like, I did, I accomplished a lot of things, which is great, and I was living a life, which is good, but in a sense, I was waiting by my phone and I'm like, I really, really, really need this to happen. And that's a long time to be in that period,

because you're talking about basically like two years of being like on the verge or like thinking, yeah, that's a really long time. And so late in the game, I would say. So like late in the game, like maybe December. Oh, wow. Late. Yeah. I did like, long story short, I did get that call and I was like, back in the process.

And what is good about being someone who was in the pipeline, maybe going to be on one season, but then like, they're looking at you again, next year is truthfully just living my truth, like not premeditating this. Like I had a lot of new shit to say, you know what I mean? And that was good. And that really kind of gave me the energy I needed to like do the whole process again, like a lot more like, like I was basically. So, you know, from my from, in my opinion, I wasn't capturing their attention again, because I'm like, Oh, we could check this box. That's, that's not how I viewed it. Like, I really do feel like it was a continuation of the things that I had been telling them the year before about living authentically. And I had so much proof and evidence that I was like putting my money where my mouth was and like applying like

that like new mantra that I had in my life. And I do think that's something that they very much responded to. And yeah, and like, you know. So you did you tell them at that time that you were like, did you come out to them and tell them that that was something that you were doing? Yeah, yeah. And that's, that you got so far

and were so interesting to them. And then now you're like, hey, I really have, like I took what I learned from this casting process and put it into my real life. I think that's like the number one thing that they're really looking for is people who are really living their life, Right. And that that and then and that you have this like interesting element of your personality that like really

hasn't been displayed on Survivor before. That's so cool. Yeah. And you know, they love my love story and everything. Yeah. So it's like a lot to say and even the energy I needed to do all that again. And it ended up very, you know very happy ending this time. So I was like, Proton Sprout and 47, amazing, so cool. And I came in to Survivor 47, really with like really good energy. And like, I was feeling so confident

because I'm like, everything is cooking into place. And like, you know, I am on an upward trajectory in my life. And this is kind of like a culmination of that. And this is like house money. And I'm just going to live my dream and I'm going to do my best. And everything is going to be amazing. And like, you know, I'm going to take everything in stride. We don't have to like relitigate my survivor 47, whatever.

But like I had ups and downs for sure. Right. And it just I think it goes to show that you can have, you can make progress in your life, even if it's not linear and like you can have maybe setbacks and like, you know, you think you're somewhere, maybe you put yourself in a new situation and, uh, you know, old demons come back, you know what I mean? And that's just like the reality of life. But, you know, I persevere, right? Yeah. Get back on my feet, play a game that I'm proud of that like, you know, I ended up getting a huge second chance in the context of my first season and really scratching the itch and fill in my cup with survivor stuff. So that was...

And it's like nothing is more like nothing is more authentic than that life is highs and lows. You know, I think I mean, I think in so many ways you were the star of the season, right? And I think your journey being not this linear story that we've seen a lot of times of just like a dominant player or even just like in a hundred percent scrappy underdog, but like more like like like bumbling at times,

but also like the smartest one at times. And also like it's just like was a story that I feel like hadn't been seen before. And like to add to that mix that in the very first episode, you say to like one of the most famous people that's ever been on the show, like, oh, I'm bi. And then that's just like out there. Like, I think that to me, that was so endearing as a viewer. I'm just like, this guy, like, I really felt like, okay, he is just laying it all out here.

He's like, I want to make sure you know, I'm bi. I want to, I'm going to like tell you that I'm a strategist. I'm going to prove it to you in like two months. I promise. And I'm like, you know, like it just, it was, it was so special. Yeah. Well, I do think, I think like, you know, like it just, it was, it was so special. Yeah. Well, I do think, I think this is in terms of the journey that you've talked about today,

like recontextualizes to me, some of like, and again, we don't have to like litigate, you know, and go through it, but I do think the idea of living and I think especially in your case, and I've, I've felt this in my life too, where it's like, when you start to live your life authentically, it is absolutely true that your life becomes better. Like you're, you're things that happen in your life that didn't feel like that you'd never thought you were going to be able to do, or these new things that you never thought were going to be part of your life. Like that has been true of my journey.

And it is also true that there are times where you're like, Oh, it's still kind of like it, it didn't fix everything. Like coming out, did not fix everything in my life. And so I can imagine this scenario where you've had so much of the like, the high, you know, and I'm like, kind of like dismissing maybe some of the times you had loves, but you're talking about like the way in which like the day you come out, your family is grateful, and then you meet like the love of your life. so then going into a moment, you're like, and I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna be, and then that vulnerability, like, you're being this thing that in that moment

did not feel like it was like, oh no. Like, uh-oh, like the confidence that, like normally this goes well, being vulnerable, but today it did not go well. And I think that that, like, for me really reframes, I think a lot of like, you know, that that first episode for me watching watching you play. And it is very cool that I think you also got the thing of like,

because for some people, that's it. Like, you know, we don't get to see, but we got to see really. Yeah. The thing you're saying is like getting back up, trying again. So I think it's like a really important story that I think, you know, we got to see play out on screen. That's really, that's really cool. And I feel very, very a really important story that I think, you know, we got to see play out. That's really cool. And I feel very, very, very happy about that. And so like, fast forwarding a little bit to like, sort of the airing and stuff like that. Yeah, of course, like, I have like the premiere on my mind, like, you know, luckily, or like, you know, I'm grateful

for the fact that Survivor sets you up with the psychologists, you know, like you're doing the groundwork and like preparing for that. But so the the, you know, the premier errors and then like even like throughout the second week, like. I think my superpower is that I really to this day, like I don't read comments, so like Twitter, I've not logged back onto still and Reddit I never look at Instagram is fine, whatever. So like I was back on Instagram after a week or two, but I don't seek out commentary ever.

Having said like some things come through the filter through osmosis. Evy, we should cancel the mean tweets segment. We have plans. Yeah. Could you imagine? I was part of the show. We just read like homophobic tweets, isn't it?

Yeah. But then you know Shannon will show me We just read like homophobic. And then, yeah, and then you know, Shannon, I'll show me some tweets and whatever. But I think what's interesting about that really part of the season was. Of course, there was a whole range of opinions. Some people resonated with me, some people were very harsh, some people. But a lot of people were like, the fuck is this guy? Mm hmm. Like, I don't know. And what I appreciated even during that time was some people, but a lot of people were like, what the fuck is this guy doing?

And what I appreciated even during that time was the first group of people who kind of like got me or like felt like they got me or people who were like, oh, he's like a chaotic by King. Like, oh, yeah, you never met a by guy before. Like, they're like, yeah, you're like, that's him. And like that was like cool. And that kind of is representative of the fact that from like the cast release to today, like any sort of commentary about my sexuality

is just like in positive or neutral. Like, you know, I can, I can often like 99% of the time they're very sweet and great and then 1% of the time, they're very sweet and great. And then 1% of the time they're bad, but it's never, I guess homophobic or biphobic or anything like that. And I think that's really the thing, like when you're being yourself,

to the degree that you're polarizing, the people that see you and like appreciate the real parts of you because you're being yourself will like you and be drawn to you. And it like makes so much sense. I mean, I definitely felt that when it and like appreciate the real parts of you because you're being yourself will like you and be drawn to you. And it like makes so much sense. I mean, I definitely felt that when it was like, Oh my God, chaotic bisexual king obsessed, you know, like, and that is like, like, and now there's so many people for whom you probably are the archetype of that of them learning, learning about that. And obviously not that all bisexual men are chaotic or anything like that. But that's just like one fun legible type

that does exist and that you really did exemplify in the game in so many ways. And it was like so sweet and amazing to watch you go on that journey where you like start in chaos and end like with like one of the best moves in certainly the new era, if not, you know. The slow mo, the slow mo shot like that is like, yeah, that is the best. That's amazing.

And just one thing to say of like just thinking about how short that thing is of just like you talking to John Lovett and being like, I'm bi. It just makes me also think about like there's been especially like a ton of queer women of all types of, you know, bisexual, lesbian, queer that talked a ton on the island. We know about their sexuality and it's not shown at all. And it just makes it so clear how like literally they just put in one sentence.

It didn't have to like relate to so much. It's like the most obvious thing. They showed how you bonded with this person. One thing that happened is you said, I'm bi. Like that took 0.1 seconds of the show and made you so much more legible. And that's so much to it. And I'm very grateful for that. And like, in a way, it's kind of the perfect way for it to be put out there.

Because I kind of skipped a step, because the thing about Survivor being on there and getting ready for the airing was the fact that I would really. I told a small group of people about being at by right and coming out in your life before the show, you're saying like a small group. And I really, really like you survivor as a vehicle to come out to everybody. I'm just telling John Lovett and 20 million Americans.

But I think that plan worked out really well because. I mean, say what you will, maybe this would have it would have all been great if I did it the other way, but like I don't I didn't have to have a dozen kind of awkwardish conversations. So I changed the subject and put it out there. Kind of worked out very well where I'm just like, well, I am open and I'm showing the world like all at once. And so like my uncle, my aunts and uncles and my cousins, they're just like, oh, they saw them in the premiere. I didn't have to like... Yeah, you're officially on the Survivor fandom wiki LGBT contestants. You're on there. And

Asia, the update since two weeks ago, Asia is now on there. Yeah. We did it. That's because of this. I really relate to that. Especially because I look so different than when I did growing up. I don't have long hair anymore, et cetera. Where I feel like there's all these people in my life

that just got the big update on me from Survivor, just like poppin'. And that is, it's a great coming out tool. Coming on the Pride of Spokane, going on Survivor. Broadcasting. Easy. Yeah. Well, it's so amazing that the reception was so good.

I just want to go back quickly to your on-island experience. Obviously, we saw you talking about it with John, and I was just wondering to what degree you were talking about your bisexuality with people. Do you feel like that was something that was like part of your game in some way or part of the ways that you were connected with people or, you know, didn't really. It's a good question. I think that I didn't overthink it. You know, I didn't.

Am I going to hire? I'm going to be like, blah, blah, blah, blah. John was the first person I told and actually it's kind of funny because I kind of wanted to tell him early just because, but it was actually that literal conversation where like grabbing a log where like the four other people made a freaking alliance. So that is what it is. But anyway, like by day two, I like it came up with the other data members.

And then when we got to the merge, yeah, like I'm going to be like, I'm going to tell Tini. I think Tini is going to be very important to this. But it was like, it was just kind of organic and natural. And it makes so much sense that you'd be like the other queer people. This will be a nice thing to just like connect with them. Like that makes so much sense and is so nice. And again, a cool thing of like, it's so amazing, this new era of casting where you can have like John Lovett, like a gay man, you can have Tini, a gender queer person at the time. Now we know he's a trans man.

You like, you a bisexual man, Asia, bisexual woman. Like it just really is like, those are all actually really different experiences. And if you're just like, we're going to have one LGBTQ plus person, like you'll, you'll miss so many beautiful different stories. Well, it was good with like, like Tini in particular, because he did not like me in the pregame, pregame ponderosa. I was overthinking and I was like,

I had heard maybe rumors that or stories that Caleb was overdoing it with smiling and stuff. So I'm like, I'm just going to like be chill and reserve. The result was like not a great vibe. I don't think all in all, but teeny thought I was like a bro or something like that. Right. And then that kind of got dispelled pretty early on, but I do think that generally speaking, I think, you know, if you can kind of maybe surprise people or subvert people's expectations, like, I kind of have socially speaking that kind of can work in your favor. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

And speaks to that thing of like the presumption that it has to be bad that you're by instead of like, oh, this is this amazing thing about Andy. That makes it like a more connective person to me in whatever way, you know? Yeah. Ah, we love, we love. I don't know. Yeah, I think, I mean, that like, I guess that takes me to present day, but again, like just to like say again,

I think looking back, just like with a tiny bit of space I have from playing, like I'm really happy with the decisions I made during that whole casting process. And I think the timing worked out better than it works out for some other people who, you know, in the sense that I made the decision to like, okay, I'm going to be out and open before going out on the island, which is very scary and that it is that leap into cold water. But I think it definitely all worked out in my favor.

And so I can very happily acknowledge the fact that I am a primary sample of by man representation in survivor history in a way where it was kind of lacking before so that's something I definitely am very proud of. Hell yeah, hell yeah. Yeah and we're proud of you like it really, it's so amazing and awesome and like it's just, yeah it's really, really cool and it just really is an underrepresented demographic. And I just I think having you just like lay it all out there

and be honest about yourself and coming here and talking about it. Like, I just know that that will mean so much to people because it is hard to imagine yourself as something that you've never seen before. It just is. And that's why TikTok doesn't make you gay or trans, but it might help you figure out that you already are. Right. And so, and reality TV is obviously another medium of that. So it's, it's amazing and good. And Grace, should we go to our classic end questions?

Yes. So we always like to ask, it is Pride Month. What are you doing for Pride Month? Do you do anything in particular? For this year, you can catch me at Brooklyn Pride. I think it's this Saturday, so definitely gonna make it over there. I live near Park Slope, so yeah, catch me there. Hell yeah, amazing. Very fun.

And then the other thing we like to do, which I feel like you've touched on this a little bit, but I will give the floor back to you, which is like, what do you want to say to LGBTQ survivor fans, people who are thinking about applying to the show, just like a general message that you would give to people close out the show? I mean, yeah, like I feel like I touched on the main lesson I've learned through that, like this experience, which is, unfortunately, we live in a world where like I can't give out

any guarantees, right, with how it's going to go, right? But I can only say from my experience that to take that leap and to be on this other side where I feel totally out and open and everything is put on the table, especially someone who's lived so much of my life, not being that way, like keeping parts of myself unspoken or the convenience of others, right? To be on the other side of that is the freest feeling like in the world. And I just wish it for everyone listening who like can relate to that. And if you know, again, like I have so much, like I identify so closely with people who do want to be on reality TV people who do want to be

on reality TV, who do want to be on survivor, sort of be that representation that maybe is lacking, maybe that they could have used that representation earlier in their life to like people who want to do that, like, I'm 100% rooting for you, like, hopefully, I don't regret this. But I'll say like, if you have a tape, yeah, you can send it my way. If you really feel strongly that I'm the right person to send it to, just do it. I want to be like on your side because it all through the ups and downs and everything like that, it was the greatest experience ever.

And I'm just I'll take it with me for the rest of my life. Hell, yeah, Andy. Thank you so much for being here. And thank you for sharing so much of yourself as a guest and taking us on this journey. And I'll just say one other thing that came to my head at the end of this is like as someone myself, who's kind of like learning about my masculinity more and more all the time,

like sweet, beautiful representations of men like you who are not just like peak grow and like like have multitudes herself are like really amazing examples for me and like, yeah, multitudes yourself are like really amazing examples for me. And like, yeah, I, I just think you're wonderful. And it was really nice to talk to you. That's amazing to hear. Yeah. You're both wonderful as well. This is a part of the dream come true.

Being on the Pride show. This is actually how we actually on podcast, which is that we just like love on each other and we're like, you're amazing. You're the best. I love you. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Well, happy Pride, Andy. Thank you so much for being here. See ya. Thank you so much. Discover the magic of BetMGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and

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