RHAP: We Know Survivor - The Pride Has Spoken | Episode 18: Katurah Topps and Sabiyah Broderick

Episode Date: June 22, 2025

This episode features Survivor 45 contestants Katurah Topps and Sabiyah Broderick.

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19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hello, everyone, and welcome to The Pride Has Spoken. I'm Matt Scott, one of your hosts of The Pride Has Spoken. I'm Matt Scott, one of your hosts of The Pride Has Spoken.

My pronouns are he, him. I am not alone. What's going on? This is Evy Jagoda. I use they, them pronouns. How are you doing, Matt? I'm great. I'm happy to be here.

And we have an unprecedented episode of The Pride Has Spoken happening right now. We have two guests. This is the first time we've had two guests together at once. People are probably gagged at what's happening. Like, what's going on, Evy? Well, we have an extremely special episode because, you know, over the last season or two, we've become more than just talking about people's past. We've become basically a breaking news outlet.

We've had multiple people now come out publicly on this show. And we have us even a different special version of that on the road. So we are using this podcast as an official hard launch of, I believe, the first ever queer survivor couple. Who do we have today, Matt? Oh, we've got the love we've got. So by and we've got Katara and they're dating. And I've known about it for a while.

And it's so fun to get to talk about it. Finally, publicly, this is so exciting. This is thrilling. And I'm so glad that they're choosing to share this on the Pride is Spoken. I do feel like someone needs to do a study about podcasts and how that ends up being just a great place to, you know, come out, hard launch news about your lives, share deep details of your lives. Like, I love what we're getting to do.

It's kind of insane that we pack it all into one month. So what we do is amazing. It's amazing. We do it. I am so excited. Katara and Sabaya, this is like so exciting. Like we haven't had a big there's not been that many big public survival couples like in a long time. I feel like pretty much that the new era we had are like D's and Austin's. And we had some flirt mances.

But this is real. They are dating right now. You're going to hear all about it. This is breaking tea. I'm so excited. And they're a beautiful couple. And this is just so beautiful and exciting. And I'm so pumped. Yes. I'm so pumped up because this you're getting me fired up, Evie, because what like what in the world are we doing?

This is a dating show now. Yes, I know that I'm sure there have been some pride has spoken love connections out there in the world. Let us know. Tweet us hashtag the pride is spoken if they've happened. But this is real. This is happening. Oh, my gosh. We love love. We love love. We love love. We love love. This is so beautiful. And we want to bring you the interview.

We're so excited. So let's get the business out of the way. Yeah. Yeah. Let me first say this that I have last year. I had two queer friends who came out and I gave them each a Pride has spoken buff as part of their coming out just as a celebration. So you can, I think you can still get some Pride has spoken buffs over on robisthewebsite.com slash store. But we also have all sorts of other merch. We have the shirts, we have hoodies, we have mugs, we have, there's more.

Check it out. robisthewebsite.com slash store. Like I actually need to get all of my new merch. It's kind of hot here in D.C. now, but I need that hoodie life going on. Like, yes, I do. Yes, you do. And it's all the money from the Pride of Spoken Gear is going to an amazing cause like we do every year. And this year, the money is going to the Trevor Project. Matt, would you tell us a little bit about what the project is

and why our wonderful listeners should be supporting them? Evy, Evy, don't hold me back. Let me just dive in and tell you about the Trevor Project. So I love the Trevor Project. I've loved them for many years. They've been around for a long time, and they're the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention nonprofit for LGBTQ plus youth. Hi there. This is Grace just popping in very quickly

to chat about some things have been happening this past week with LGBTQ youth specifically in the United States. So the Supreme Court upheld Tennessee's ban on healthcare for trans youth and the Trump administration announced it will shut down the national LGBTQ plus youth suicide lifeline in 30 days.

So if you don't know the 9 8 8 suicide lifeline had a specific LGBTQ plus service that would route those folks to people who could directly help support LGBTQ plus youth with anything that they were going through. And the government decided to end that thing. The hotline will still be there, but these specific LGBTQ youth support services that were offered are being shuttered. So this is terrible news in addition to trans health care, which is really just gender affirming care, which is puberty blockers, gender affirming care, things that almost all scientific associations and pediatric associations say are effective and work. This ban has been upheld by the Supreme Court. And then in addition, the suicide youth line has been shuttered. We had already been doing

a fundraiser for the Trevor Project, which does host a support line, a suicide prevention support line. And we're going to continue to do that and think, you know, unfortunately, it's now more prescient than ever to do that. So the ways you can support is you could obviously go donate directly to the Trevor Project. You could buy a piece of merchandise from the RGP store. So that is a buff, if there are any left available, a T-shirt, we have new sweaters, stickers, things like that. A mug, you could go and buy one of those

and all of the profits to those will go to the Trevor project. Additionally, if you do that, you'll be entered into a raffle, as we've been saying, to win a meet and greet with a survivor player or an RTP podcaster. So just semester extensive to do that, but we'd really appreciate anything we can do to help these folks.

You know, the 998 will still be up and running, but for folks who are specifically looking for LGBTQ plus type support with LGBTQ counselors, people who understand and can support those folks. The Trevor Project will be an incredibly important service for those folks. So please donate if you can buy a piece of merch. And thank you so much. I think that's it. I think that's it. Check us out. Stay tuned for this interview.

This is our second to last episode of the season. I promise you, you are not going to want to miss the last. My voice just cracked thinking of the next episode. Matt and I are really excited. We can't talk about it yet, but it's going to be great. We're going to cry. I'm going to cry. Oh, my gosh. All right. Check out this conversation, our interview with Katara and Sabaya. With Sierra 1500's premium interior and advanced tech, or Sierra HD's impressive power and capability,

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Gym on Tuesday. Date night on Wednesday. Out on the town on Thursday. Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine, and it's good for your eyes too, because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are.

Visit Specsavers.ca to book your next eye exam. Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. Oh my God. I'm so excited. I can't keep it in. I'm just going to be screaming this whole podcast. I am so excited to welcome to the Pride of Spoken in their debut as the hottest new survivor couple there is the hottest new era couple of all the first ever public queer

survivor relationship. Please welcome to the podcast, Keturah and Sobhaya. Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya!

Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya!

Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! Sobhaya! I'm like, OK, yeah, it's game time. There's one thing we understand. It's game time. Right. Oh, my God. If you are only listening to the audio version, I just want you to imagine just the biggest smiles, the most beautiful people

you can imagine. This is just so sweet and exciting. And like, I'll just say for myself, I've been ever since I heard a little bit about this relationship from Katara. I've been so excited to know everything. And now I'm so excited to bring it to you all together and to have your love just out here and for everyone. And just like, y'all, you're so beautiful. This is so I can't wait to hear.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for having us. And honestly, what better far press to be a part of our rollout launch week. Then the pride is spoken. Obviously, we love you guys like no matter what, like, well, clearly, you know, in our heart, right? Like, and it's Pride Month and it's Survivor. I mean, every time people are like, how'd you meet?

We're like, well, it always feels time people were like, how'd you meet? We're like, well. It always feels like we're like, cloud-tasting when we have to tell our story. It's mostly when we're talking to couples, it's like, we'll go on and on about them meeting at a, you know, a restaurant and how it was so awesome. Or a dating app. Right, and they're like, well, what about you?

And we're like, whoa. Have you heard of this show called Survivor? It literally happened when we were picking up our dog the other day, like coming back from traveling. I was gonna say, not our dog. Our dog. I have officially become the second mommy to Paris. To my dog.

He listens to me, she responds to me. She takes that really seriously too. She's mama, I'm mommy. Her bond is really really intense. Obviously I work all day, so she has all the time to just play and get connected. It's very cute to see her like start following her. She used to be so upset that she would only follow me. She'd be like, we don't even care about be bears.

I'm like, just give her some time. You know, like show her up. And now she's like, you guys, I like, I'm like, this is just my favorite. Queer love is my favorite thing on earth. And like people that I know and love and from Survivor like this is just so fun. And that you two are being public about it is just so special. Yeah, Matt, I'm like, no, I'm over the moon. I'm like in awe, too, because I also just feel like queer

melanated love is the most beautiful thing in the world. And it gives so me so much hope and love and joy and all of it. And so I don't know how we're gonna make it through. I don't know. It's shocking to me like that. It are just stunning to me like you were on Survivor you did your thing and yet you are like, here you are feeling all the butterflies and jitters. Is this like, are the jitters stronger than they were during Survivor?

Like what's the, it feels like they are. Yeah, I would say normally I'm like calm, cool, collected. You know, that's kind of like my persona regularly, especially being a service member. It's not a lot that puts me on my back foot but this one, she's like just larger than life in a lot of different ways and it's just like always keeping me on my toes, always trying to like, you know, make myself better. And like, I don't know, come more into my own

to reflect how much she is herself. Like it's just, it's really, I don't know. It just gives me permission, like being around you. It gives me permission to be my more myself. And so it's really cool. Honestly, I feel like I'm relearning, you know, who I am in this really school. And it's been really, really fun. Yeah. Hold my hand.

We have to have some structure. We have to have OK, we have to have some structure. We have to have some structure. We have to have some structure. OK, OK. Yeah, yeah. Fuck structure, but maybe let's get some questions in here. Yes, please. That's a good idea. You all mentioned how we met, you know,

and how that's a funny story to tell people. And it's actually not even as straightforward as I as oh, we I mean, because if memory serves, I haven't rewatched 45 in a while. Y'all never met in the game. And then Sabaya was pre-married and Kachara was married. So there's people on my season that we were in the separate pools that I still have not to this day met in person. Oh, wow. Which maybe a little bit about the.

My favorite season. I love all those. That's not the problem. But anyway. But yes, I was going to say the same thing. So we are traditional story and we tell people this. We both played survivor on the exact same season, Survivor 45. We were the only two black women on the entire cast, the only two black queer women. And afterwards, some point we fell in love. But really, we never spent not one single day in the game playing together, which is so crazy. It's so mind blowing.

Unfortunately, we lost her early. Right, but something, I feel like... Okay, you want to tell them? What? It's more secrets, more reveals. I'm thinking because you wore my shirt the whole season. Okay, well we don't, okay. Which is kind of cool, right?

Like, of course, That's so cool. We can't explain that. Wow. I guess I'm skipping ahead. Yeah. I wouldn't, like, we think about, of course, like, we're just friends at the time.

Like, it doesn't have really as heavy a significance as it does now. But, like, I was in a black long sleeve, like, formal, thermal, you know, for like episode two. And I got blindsided according to me. I mean, of course, it was obvious to everyone else after the edit, me I was like I was in my bag you know and um I left my shirt and I left my sneakers yeah and she wore that the rest of the season like yeah even her warm wow and it was such a shock when she was booted out. Like, obviously, no one expected her to go so early. She didn't have one of the biggest reactions. And that's the best part about it,

is when you watch our season, I remember the day that we all came in and we're about to do the challenge. And Jeff is like, you know, you're about to see who was voted out yesterday, looking at Lulu. And we see that it's Sabaya gone. And they cut, the camera cuts cuts to me and I am living. Like I am like wild. I am so frustrated.

I'm so bothered and I literally Jeff was like Katura biggest reaction. I'm like why? Big reaction from Katura. She was so strong and powerful and like, you know, I am in love with this stuff and I'm shocked that she's gone. Meanwhile, well, you know, I'm full of this stuff and I'm shocked that she's gone. Yeah. Meanwhile, well, you know, she got blindsided. I'm over here in a tribe where I'm at the bottom. So I'm like fighting for my life. Right. And I'm praying for a tribe swap so I can get to her.

Yeah. And now she's alive. And I'm like, come on. And they even cut Kendra coming to our camp. Like, that was one time. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So Kendra in a run-of-the-year and came to your guys' camp. Is that what it was?

Yeah, she came to our camp. We ended up getting cut from the edit. Love you, Kenny. But she said, at Bello, I have Keturah. So that was something that got cut. People were always like, oh, so why she was so confident in this, this, and that. But it's like, I had was something that got cut. I mean, people were like, always like, oh, so far, she was so confident in this this and that. But it's like I had a big reason to be. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, she was going to be with me and Sean. We were going to be the Rainbow Tribe. Yeah. Yeah. And when she went to when she went to Sabaya's camp, she came back to Bella that night and she's like, she told her all about it. Yeah. I love her. And I'm thinking good, because I already know I love her. And so I was like, me, Kendra, and Sabaya, we're going to be this like imaginary thing.

Yeah, me too. Yeah, exactly. When you look at our social media, like we have all these videos and everything. It's just me, Kendra, and Sabaya. And we're like, we know it would have worked so well. Right, because we love each other. Plus Sean. And Sean, of course,

but fast forward to by the time I go to her camp, Lulu, where she's gone, it's just so crazy because, I mean, a little sad, like that time I felt so alone and I had nobody, I was alone. And I just was like cold at night, shivering, and I found her shirt and I put it on. I was like, this kept me warm.

And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe there was some sort of energetic thing. But I like believed, you know, when you don't have anything on an island and you're starving and you got no allies and you think in any day about to be me. Anything helps. You know what I mean? I was looking at the wind like you, yeah, that wind's for me, you know, the butterfly. That means I'm gonna win this challenge. And so her shirt, yeah, her shirt was assigned to me to carry on, it just so happened that we did

like two water challenges after that, and I didn't have the water shoes, and Caleb was like, where's the bias shoes? These are here, and then we wore the exact same size shoes. No, no, no. It was crazy. Wherever there is footage of me on TV repping her as soon as she gets wetted out, wearing her clothes, if you watch her season you'll see me in her long black shirt and in her shoes. So that's a cool little like thing for us.

Wild. It makes you wild. Is there like fan fiction? I feel like there has to be fan fiction out there of this alliance, like people just shipping the alliance and the two of you. The fan cam cut to the Katora reacting to to Sibaya being voted out. And then I'm like, do your magic, please. We need this cut to this podcast. Hello. OK, so you played the game.

Yes, that happens. Katara is wearing the shirt. Sabaya is hanging out in the pre-merge. When did y'all actually have a, okay, wait, two questions, two questions. Number one. You're on it, keep going. I need the information.

You're like, give me the tea, I came here with an agenda. Okay, my two questions are, number one, before the game, were y'all making any eyes, what's the vibes there in the pre pregame situation? And then when did you all actually first talk? Like when was your first actual uh, we're allowed to talk to each other.

Okay, so As you know In the beginning you go to ponderosa um And before the game starts before the game. So it's the pregame. You're staying in little tents or whatever, and you're eating at the cafeteria thing that they have there, but you can't talk to anybody, which is the main thing. And it's just kind of like a bunch of eye contact, a bunch of size.

And people lie. It's very good to play in survival. We surprise how much happens like that nonverbal 70% is hot and heavy. 100% and so don't okay, of course, like you start to gravitate towards people that you have things in common with so immediately I'm like, right. Not going to retrieve her over the top and I'm like, Katara, right? Like, hey, my girl. You know, so I'm like, not going to retrieve her over the top, but I'm like trying to get her attention, stuff like that, but she was very, like, by the book, it seemed like, you know, I'm like looking at everyone

as impossible, you know? But I was trying to be like, I wanted my strategy going into Survivor was I don't want anyone to be able to make any assumptions about me based on what they see it. I want to be like, where your blank book so that what is how we get to the island? Whoever's on my tribe, I can merge myself to assimilate to whatever personality I need. Right. That there's the lawyer versus like I need friends. So there's a time where we end up well basically she goes to the bathroom and I see her go to the bathroom. Baby hold on it it's, this has no contact happens

the entire time we're at home. Yeah, the whole time. Like every time she's looking at me, I'm giving nothing. Like I'm sizing her up and I literally was thinking I was like, baby gay. Baby gay. Absolutely. Oh, I'm well offended.

What was the look you were giving her? Like, could you give us that look now? I don't even know. It's more like, you know, when you're like casually like. This person is thirsty to be my friend. I was in my head. I was I'm a textbook overthinker lawyer, a burro type A, whatever. And so I'm in my head and I'm like, keep it together.

So everybody is losing expressions for me, almost probably because I'm an immigrant. But I see Sabai and she's wearing this velour lavender track. Oh, yeah. It was Vans. It was so cute. It was like a two piece. It's in my dress outfit or whatever.

Which ultimately, they must like so hot. Yeah, you never two piece. It's in my outfit. Which ultimately they mistake so hot. Yeah, you never think you're way too hot. But they didn't like my. The stuff that they picked. And so that was actually supposed to be one of my freaking jury. You did pull it from that, you know, maybe where on press day, because they were just like, yeah, none of this stuff is hitting on what we thought it would be.

Yeah. Really? Really? I'm unsure what to think based on her energy attitude. Like I'm trying to figure out, I'm like, well, I definitely like her and I'll connect her and she's a black girl. Like I'm always gonna gravitate first.

But I was like, are we also connected through our queerness? And I was like, are we also connected through our queerness? And I was like, she looks really young and I'm not sure if she's sure about her gayness. But at the same time, I'm like, buzz cut, undercut, long ponytail. I'm like, I could not look more gay. I was gonna say, I watched you for 0.1 seconds on that show

and I was like, that's why I miss Reed. That was my thing. I was like, I only. You were wearing like the I also think of it as like, it's either like a gay person or a stoner. Like, it's one way or the other. I mean, you know, whatever. I only I only put that restriction on myself to say I didn't want to lead with talking about gay or queer men.

Because I didn't want to assume, and I was like, it's giving like, I could be gay, but I could be new gay, and not sure about my gay. So I was like, well, I'll be a black girl rather than lead with gay. And so we just hadn't really had any contact the whole time. And then it is the morning that the game is started. It's 3am. The boats are pulled up. This is the last second

that you are at. Gosh, we are in the bathroom and no one's supposed to be in the bathroom together. No one's supposed to be talking. No one's supposed to be making eye contact. Yeah, we don't know. You were in the bathroom. So I followed her. I go in the bathroom first. She follows me in. Because and I waited, I'm like, I didn't even have to pee. I'm like waiting, washing her feet. And I wait till she goes out to wash her hands. And I immediately go out to wash my hands.

And we're sitting there for a second. And I can tell she's trying not to look at me. I'm staring her down through the mirror. She's looking in the mirror. I'm washing my hands. I look up in the mirror and I can see her eyes. Look at her in the mirror. And I'm just like, oh.

And I'm like, oh, and then she looks at me and she says, just so you know, I like you. And I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. This is like all like, puss puss puss. you. It was like all like, all I need is a little bit of, if you with me, I'm with you. Like, but I don't know. So I'm trying to keep it cool. Once she gave the I'm with you, I was like, Oh, how could I not be locked in forever? That was going to be like automatically.

I'm like, yeah. I mean, we all know statistically for survivor black women have a very long time going deep because intimidation factor, whatever it is, insert every other notion about women, Even if you're not social, like it just depends like you do it all. And we always go early. There's always a pre marriage and then there's like a middle of the game. Yeah. I mean, she obviously broke all of those statistics. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but hey, like it's a thing. And that's another reason to while trying to be specifically distant to her is because I knew any slight look at her and I got you, people are going to say those two black girls are together. Did you see what happened? Exactly. What happened with her and Kayla is just immediately.

And so I'm like, if I look like I'm neutral, completely, no one would say, well, look, they're together. And then we can go together behind the bushes and be like, I got you. And so when we were in the bathroom at the party and she's doing this, I'm like, I swear my heart to you. Like in that moment, I'm like, I'm in it. Like, yeah, I was like, everything.

And I meant it, and we both felt it. And then we had to go. I will go to the end with you, decided in this moment. You walked out before me, I waited a little bit, and then I walked out and then we ended up getting the bus. Like immediately like that. And then when we got our bus, it was like, fuck, we're now in the same tribe.

But we knew that, they never put two black girls on the same tribe and started a war. So we knew it would be separate. It was just like, now I know I got this guaranteed person. Yeah. And then my first tribe was so hard and I was so at the bottom that was like, okay, if I can just make it to the tribe swap, if I can just make it to the tribe swap, my kids from getting with her are gonna be better. And then we get to the tribe swap and gonna be like, Sabaya, gone. And I'm like, gone! I was starting to feel like that too, because it just seemed like things were just exploding all around me.

Like, I lost my vote, my idol is stupid. My idol is stupid. The candle situation. And they wouldn't let me melt it on the rocks. They wouldn't let me be creative at all. It had to be by fire. And I'm just like, I'm on the rocks. They wouldn't believe me creative at all. It had to be by fire. And I'm just like, I'm on fucking Lulu, you know? Oh, man. Stress, stress, stress.

Basically, to answer your question. The bathroom. The bathroom. We never saw each other and never spoke ever again. So the game ended. Yes. OK. I just have to say out loud that I'm I am like sweating. That was the worst. I just have to say out loud, I am like sweating. We're sweating.

There's the bathroom. We literally call it the bathroom story. Okay, yes. An iconic moment for us. I'm in the bathroom. If you see a survivor, producer is listening, we definitely wouldn't break a room. No, they would never do that. No, never.

No, never. Hey, so what did you want to talk about? Well, I want to tell you about Wigovie. Wigovie? Yeah, Wigovie. What about it? On second thought, I might not be the right person to tell you.

Oh, you're not? No, just ask your doctor. About Wigovie? Yeah, ask for it by name. Okay, so why did you bring me to this circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wakovi by name.

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Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. Okay, here's my question to you. You don't have to tell the story, but is that the most illegal thing you've done in a bathroom? I know it's not for you. There's a lot of things that are not illegal. That's what I'm talking about.

To do in a bathroom. Together, together. Put on my legal hat. No, no, no, no. The most illegal thing I've done. I could do it together. Together. Put on my legal hat. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. No, no, no. OK, thank you very much. I got my answer. Thank you very much.

Wow. I mean, two lesbians are going to say to me when we got the bathroom story. You know what I'm saying? Of course. Right. Oh, my gosh. OK, wait. No, but this is my brain is broken right now because there's so many levels to this. Like, because I'm picturing alternate universe, you end up together on the same tribe. And then what happens? Well, guitar, you wouldn't have had shoes

or, oh, maybe you could have shared. I don't not. There we go. But I'm just saying. You're warm. But I'm just saying, like, I think, Evy, maybe you're going to this place, but who knows, we could have gotten the showmance on the season, but when did the, I need to know when the love connection like actually came to fruition, when it blossoms, when it started to blossom.

Okay, so we really were just really good friends. Like after we went to Cape Cod as a cast, and I don't think we really talked a lot that time. I know I was late and then I left a little early. Yeah. But it was always just kind of like, what's up? Me, her, Kim, her, me now. Of course, we were just trying to bond with our castmates

before the show went on air and everything like that. And then I kind of, I guess maybe through rinsing things by going back active duty. So I wasn't at all cast things, but we talked on the phone like every day. Every single day. Yeah. We like had one FaceTime just to be like, I'm back.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Hey, I sent a text to everybody that was after the pre-merge, you know, and I was just like a jury or whatever. And I'm like, Hey, nobody didn't get to me. I'm Sabaya. This is like blurbs about me from Atlanta, Jamaica, whatever, whatever. If you all ever want to call or talk, hit me up.

And I love that. Yeah. And I was like, of course, I'm hitting you up. Right. So she was like, I called her. You called me. And actually, she was like, do you want to FaceTime? FaceTime. Yeah. And so we started FaceTime. This is our to FaceTime? FaceTime, yeah. We started FaceTiming. This is our first FaceTime, first phone call ever. Mind you, we haven't talked since the Pondy bathroom,

which felt like a billion years ago at that point. And you look so different. And I look extremely different. And cut my hair. Yeah. Yeah, lots of it. Yeah. I just love it. But I cut my hair because I was just like, I need a release. So I look different, you look all make-up-y,

and everybody looks really, really different. So we start FaceTiming. And I can be a little socially awkward. So I was like, I don't know about FaceTime initially. I'm very limited with my FaceTimes. You've got to be a special person to be in my, you can just FaceTime me group. So I was like, I don't know how it'll be,

but I genuinely liked her anyway. And I was like, I wanna get to know you anyway, fellow black woman on Survivor. So I FaceTimed her and it was so natural, so easy. We were laughing, we were like best friends. We talked over an hour, an hour and a half. I met her mom. I was like getting ready to go to a party

and like she was on the phone with me the whole time I'm getting ready. We're like talking. Super catch. I'm like packing up my house as I was about to go back. Yeah, you were moving. Yeah.

And it just felt natural. It felt like that's how we ended up eventually like a few weeks later being like do you want to be best friends? Like and I literally kept saying yeah we're both burgos. We know black and we both have like different jobs that are involving service and we both were like super passionate people. Love our friends, love to party, loved it. Like there's just so many different things that we just have like overlapping. I'm just like, oh yeah.

She can be. Yeah, it felt, I kept hearing myself say, do you wanna be best friends forever? Forever. And like mean it, you know what I mean? Like in a real genuine way. And that's such a weird thing to say. Mm-hmm.

But I- So you don't bring up the lie there. Right, we're big friends. We're like big people. We're like, do you wanna be my best friend? But I had lost, you know, through the process of Survivor, I feel like, you know, maybe you can relate to this going on TV, being in the public eye.

Like, the real ones show, and the people who are actually not really there for you are envious or jealous or bothered or you're on TV or you're getting all this attention, they fall to the wayside. And so I had kind of had my share of not so great people right after we filmed and me being on TV in the process of preparing for Survivor. And so I was like, you seem really genuine. And honestly, I just want to surround myself with genuine people. And if you're a genuine, dope, respectful, cool as hell girl

what like You know, I'm like let's be friends in a real way and she was like hell yeah And we were like we are fucking talking on FaceTime like multiple hours every single day like this has got to be friends Like the cats of today Everything in nothing on FaceTime like multiple hours every single day. Like, this has got to be a friend. Like, three caps of the day. Everything and nothing. Yeah, exactly. Everything and nothing.

She literally met my mom on the first phone call because my mom was coming to help me move. My mom was like, hey, how you doing? I love you from TV. You know, she was such a big Katorra fan. So that's awesome. Like, people that know me know me and my mom are super tight. I'm like Chuck. You know, your mom loves you.

But yeah, it just kind of was like it was cool. We just kind of connected well with the bag. I think there's something actually so special about the people, like the people that you know from Survivor that aren't related to your game in any way, you know what I'm saying aren't related to your game in any way. You know what I'm saying? Like there was actually on my cast, Sarah Wilson, who was out early on the green track, living in Boston in between when we filmed when we aired.

And we hung out a lot. And it was like so amazing to just talk to someone that like knows everybody on the cast gets the whole thing was part of it. But our stories have nothing to do with that. They're like not competitive in any way. Like no one accidentally did anything to anyone, let alone in. You know, and like like the fact that you were able to like, how could you find anything better than that?

So when that I'm 45 even like, you know, yeah, like if I did stay longer, how would that have affected our friendship? How would that affect our relationship? Would we still even like each other? Or would we just go at each other? Because then you go with, like, my tribe, it's like, okay, the only other black guy on the tribe,

the first tribal council, Emily's like, burn them at the stake, you know? And we're like, oh, we did everything! Like like y'all put us all these strength challenges together like y'all like you know what i mean like yeah well i'm almost like i can only imagine how it would be if they saw us and we connected we were cool and we were just doing like regular stuff how magnified it could have been and it's like people would have had to try to separate us or turn us away. A throat like that, it's bad to be a duo. We are visible, overt people, like not a Camilla and Kai. Yeah, we know we can have that luxury even if we know each other previously or have any

care about each other or didn't even meet in the bathroom. Like no matter what. And so it even came up when we were like, I mean, obviously, survivor 50 is like Ben talked about and like, now we know the cast and everything. But for a moment, both of us were very big options. And we were kind of like, OK, like, what? What are you doing to us? They messed up, Snowbett.

In our relationships, production doesn't know. So when they're asking each of us whatever, they have no idea that we are actually together. Yeah, and so we're like, what would that mean? We don't know if it would have helped or hurt. That was the main thing, is like, okay, do they want to intentionally? I know sometimes you have intentionally casted romantic interests, Michelle Wendell, obviously Rob Amber, Rachel freaking Tyson.

Oh, right, right, right. That's the one for Swarr. But yeah, and there's been some, I mean, Ozzy and probably all those people. Ozzy, yeah. Oh my gosh, Amanda. Oh my God. OK, well, like, wow, you don't even need to worry about whether you two are going to be on a show together of some kind.

I'm like, that's locked in. That's happening. I know. Oh my gosh. I'm just thinking of casting. You're out there. Like, yeah. I would love for you to see her on Traders. And I think she would do awesome. And then we've always talked about like, oh, let's do the amazing race. Yes. Yeah. We work out together and stuff like that. Yeah. We travel a lot. So like that would just. And

obviously, we love you. We love you. Oh, I know. We're not like, oh, yeah. That's also good. However, it's always number one for all of us. OK, obviously, obviously. Oh, I'm sorry.

But yeah. OK, wow. Yes, coming on the phone. We're best friends forever, and we really mean it. How does it transition? This is what I'm wondering, and this is the big question, because I feel like here's the thing, like, Evie, you were, just to comment on this,

like, you were talking about how, like, Survivor is so special to have your person you could talk with but it had to be so confusing of like what is this bond because You've never been on survivor before you've never had that like one-of-a-kind experience and then you find someone you bond with but is it just like is this just what happens when you're on national TV together or Where did you find the love connection? We need to know. When was the moment?

We started having one-on-ones. Oh, I would say. Okay, and to set the stage, so Katara's living in New York. Sia, you're living in South Carolina, is that right? North Carolina. North Carolina, right. I live in like close to Wilmington area. OK, so we're not that close.

We are seeing or being involved in some capacity with other people. And it's actually even Sabaya, because I broke up with my girlfriend or my ex-girlfriend at the time. I broke up with her one week or maybe two weeks right before we went to go film Survivor. Yes. And you talked about that on your episode of The Pride Has Spoken. Oh, yeah. A year ago. Exactly. Exactly. Checked out that previous episode.

And so I had broken up with her or whatever. And all the psychiatrists were like, are you OK? I'm like, no, I'm totally fine. Like, I don't need to go into the waiting room with stress. And so when our season is about to air in September, at this point, Sabaya and I are like besties. And Sabaya is even telling me, you know, you might want to give her another chance. And like, you know, that girl, cause she's like,

you know, she's trying to come back. And so I'm like, I don't think I'm surprised like what we're about to be on TV, about to be emotional, you might want to have some support. And so I still blame you for me doing the slide back and letting that girl back in. It was like. A couple of people in your circle. You were my best friend.

What was what was going on for you in that sub iot? Was that genuine or were you feeling feeling something in a frame or like? What? Wow. So I was also in a relationship at the time, like I had no like ulterior motives or anything. I was just like, look, I don't want you to be alone. And she was very on the fence. Like, I mean, this is our as in our friendship.

This is like a prime discussion every day. That I shouldn't I, how do I feel? Do I miss her? Will I miss these aspects and I hate these other ones? You know, like always like back and forth, back and forth. And I'm just like, well, in my experience, if you try again and it doesn't work, usually it's like, okay, like.

Now we know for sure. Now I know. You know, so I was just kind of like, if you need to feel that to where she's done something so bad, you know, to understand to make you kind of like, because I feel like at the time, you were still in a forgiving space. No, I was just, no, no, no. I mean, if I break up with you before I go to the service, I don't even need to break up with you before I leave for five, six weeks.

So if I'm breaking up with you then, I'm done. And so it was pretty much just like, Talk about it so much. It was just like, I came back from Survivor and I had been rocked, you know what I mean? You watched my season and I got knocked out. Fair. And I was like, do I need a little somebody just to catch me? Maybe? You know, and she was like, you know what, it couldn't hurt. We don't know what's gonna happen when they show it on TV. And so I actually didn't know how I would be portrayed, obviously. And so I was like, you know what, it's worth engaging in that, seeing what it might feel like. I don't know what it's like to be on TV and have my personal

story all out there. Right. And so we tried it for a little bit. We're both involved with different people. And we're hanging together as friends all the time. And I think what changed for it is at some point, we realized both of those other people just weren't working out for either of us and it wasn't I'm waiting in line or it was just like a she talked to me about her relationship I talked to her about mine and they both had fizzled separately and we were still best friends and seeing each other And then one time it was kind of like we always hang out with the cast or with the group of people with friends Come to North Carolina. She was like get out of New York for a little bit, come by the beach. We'll chill here. And I think I ended up staying like a week.

We have kind of like duos within our cast. Like a lot of people are familiar with Kelly Brandon, Drew, even Dee Kelly sometimes. Like we have like another one of those and then Kendra is like our third or whatever. So she was in Hawaii. Kendra has some recent visits to Hawaii and I'm like y'all gotta come down and see me. Like I miss y'all. Like I'm 20 minutes from the beach. I got all this space, all this yard. And she had been complaining about New York feeling like suffocating and there enough or brass. And I've been here 10 years and I'm like, well, look around. And not for nothing, like being in the Marines, it's like kind of lonely.

You don't really have a bunch of, I don't look around and I'm just like, look at all these queer black women around me. You know, like. Right. It's like one, I have one that like is Betty, like she's great, but it's black, you know? Like I don't know. Yeah.

Full circle. So think we just feel something that each of us needed. she's great. But it's, you know, like, we just feel something that was needed. And it was like, well, great. And then we came here and it was like, this whole week out. The most like out of pick town or whatever, you know, Marines are I North Carolina in the middle of... I live in Brooklyn, 21st.

I'd be like, well, are we going to be around civilization? I'm like, yes, it's not that bad. But trying to tell a New Yorker that North Carolina's not that bad is, oh my God. I could swear I'm moving her to the Amish spot, nothing against Amish. Geez. So we went to Bloomington. We had great food. We got an Airbnb that had like an awesome hot tub and stuff. Yeah, because it's like, it's like, you can live lavish. Not bad, picking up on the...

You can have a hot tub. Yeah, well... I'll always have a hot tub in the room. Nice. You're just keeping me on the goes-able. Oh my God. Oh wait. Just a little side note.

That's me too. You need to put on the hot tub filter on Airbnb. Exactly. Exactly. I'll always keep it on. Exactly. Even when I went to the finale for our season of my family, not though. She plans this incredible week.

I mean down to the T like every day there is a detail. There's an event. There's the end. I'm just wow the whole time and I'm just like, I think at one point we looked at each other and we're like, it just feels really good to just be with you to to do nothing with you, to sit with you, to eat with you, drink with you. Like, we didn't get tired of each other and we were with each other for 24 hours a day,

seven days in a row. And it was just us. And we're Virgos and we're both really type A. And I don't like to be around people that much. I don't. I need space. I'm a good, strong, all right, we hug y'all. OK, bye. You know, and the fact that we didn't get tired of each other.

And then that repeated and then again and again. And she would come to New York and I would go to Atlanta. And eventually you realize we were seeing each other like twice a month. Yeah. For like a week at a time each time. It was like I'm spending half the month with Sabaya. Yeah. And that was even before you or or it was explicitly romantic. This is before. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Wow. What was our first romantic visit? This is also just like so like obviously I'm like I'm like so thirsty for the details on the romance, but I'm just like, this is so beautiful. Like to have that foundation of just like deep, deep friendship of like, yeah, we love spending time together of let's be best friends forever and meet it. Like, that's so beautiful. Like that's so, so, so beautiful. Once we added like the physical, it was like, oh, nameless girl.

Why are you doing it? Like, all right, you know, I think I mean, not only. I mean, both of y'all are literally so hot. This is quite over. I know. And by the way, I don't think I don't think we've talked. We haven't mentioned explicitly. Katara, your haircut, of course Next

I mean, I'm just really in this period where you know, I've carried a lot of weight and heaviness and baggage. I Just I'm ready to shed it. I'm ready to just walk into this new version of myself. I remember when I walked off the island, I was like, Okay, well, you played survivor, you can do anything. And like, I came back to New York with such a renewed energy of like, I can do anything. I'm not just a lawyer. You know, I did this, I did this crazy, cool, scary thing. And then you add the story and the friends and the not fans and the people and the feelings and the cast and all the things that happen. And I think I came out on the other end a little beat up. Yeah. And I was just like, Okay, you know, how do I find my grounding? How do I figure out who I want to be again? And, you know, I've been a civil rights lawyer for 10 years, I've lived in again? And you know, I've been a civil rights lawyer for 10 years

I've lived in New York for 10 years I've always been the same because we're doing the same thing look in the same way and I was just like you're actually said that What you've always had the same care? Whatever and I was just like, you know, it's time it's I'm just time for change walking in a new chapter I feel fantastic, I feel excited. I don't have anything waiting. She asks me all the time, every day.

You look amazing. Oh my God. You're glowing. I can't even look too hard at y'all's box. For real? I'm just gonna say you are glowing. I worked for two days. This is two days of me having it.

Have you got the proper side, like the profile? You get the side. Oh, yes. Oh, it's fascinating. Do you feel so like light? Oh, my gosh. I feel like when I cut my hair for the first time from like long, long to short, it was just like your head is literally like light. Yeah, exactly. I was going to say your neck, you've got the mobility and everything. It's all, look, you've got it. I'm just saying,

I feel like this is perfect. And you two, like, literally look so perfect together right now. You have the necklaces, your just shirts, man. Everything just cranks up and the glow. I'm like, oh my god, you're so great. No, I'm just, it's just like so beautiful. And I want you to be celebrated. I mean, even going back to your season, like I wanted people, I mean, Katara, as you were along and sharing your story, especially like one, you just, that was so huge and so beautiful and amazing. But like, I just wanted people to like love you as much as like all like, all of our people are like, loving you, both of you.

And so like to see you together, I hope like Jeff probe should send you a congratulations note. Yes. I don't care what he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that, Matt, because like, for me, that's what this moment is so representative of. Like, we all have our different journeys of what leads us to survive, right? It's not the average person who goes to survivor. Random, cool, kick-ass person with some random coolness to you to even end up on survivor.

And like slight problems, probably, you know, but that's fine. Sure. There's some issues, exactly. We got some triggers, you know, whatever. And I just remember, I thought going on Survivor was my big transfer. And then you go to Survivor and Survivor cuts you down. Like if you have something that you haven't been addressing, you're going to feel it

where you're sitting on an island all alone with no food like it comes up. And so I think after that I was very much like, oh right, well I thought I made my big pivot and now what do I do when my pivot makes me feel shaky? And so this just feels like reimagining with just me. Like I'm like I don't need anything to validate me. I could just be me. I can cut my, I don't need anything. You can validate me. I could just be me. I can cut my hair even though it's terrifying. I can like, you know, just prioritize my glow and my joy. And like that's a big part of her too.

It's like, I'm like, you know what? This feels great. This feels incredible. I'm gonna run towards it head first and see. I mean, you know, I was like, I don't fall in love. I'm just like me. You know, I was like, I don't fall in love. You know, before that last girlfriend, I've been the, you know, serial situation shipper and proud of it.

Do you remember? I was so pessimistic. I was so pessimistic when you told me to remember it wasn't. I didn't know it was a bio. You were like, you know, I remember very well. You said to me, we're at the after the Brooklyn like beach drop. Yeah. And you were like, I remember very well, you said to me, we're at the, after the Brooklyn beach drop. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you were like, I'm kind of like, got something going on with a survivor, but it's long distance and like, you know,

she's monogamous and I've never done it. Who did you think it was? I'm not, no, we can't talk about that part, but. I had, the first thought I had was, oh my God, what if it's Sabaya, that'd be so cool. But then I was like, Oh my God. I was like, there was another super cool, hot, black, queer person on that season.

Like I was like, that would be like the coolest thing ever. But then I was like, that's like too even. I can't even like dream that. So like then then I was like, I don't know why. Then my brain was like, I bet it's I bet it's Kendra. And I was like, I don't know. Kendra is very straight. I started this whole thing in my head of like oh my god I guess Kintaro is like going to Hawaii

all the time like I don't know. I was like I was like I don't know like if that's like never how you've operated like how will that go like It has to be, like I was like, it better be like something really that draws you, right? Like there's no tabling around with something totally different and more serious and long distance and like whatever, whatever, whatever. You know what I mean? And okay, well I'm sure it was.

And here we are. I don't even, let me tell you how toxic I've been. And don't, don't spoil my words. It's not still there, baby. It's not there. I would never even post a girlfriend. Like on social media. Yeah.

Like, you'd be lucky if we still around. You know what I mean? And now I'm like, yes, babe, let's like tell the world. Because I'm really like, how important it is to fight for my joy. And like, it brings me joy. You bring me so much joy. And if it feels great and it's real and it's genuine,

why not run for it, take the bull by the horns and we'll figure the rest out from there. Sure. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. What was happening for you on that side? Like, were you like, OK, full CM, I'm in. Like, we still haven't gotten quite like, was there one moment where transition like, yeah, Zubayas, give us a little bit of your side. Yeah, yeah.

I feel like it was more so like she would ask me all the time, like, are we doing this? Like, is this happening? And I'd be like, yeah. I mean, but I'm kind of like always kind of sure. You know what I mean? Like it is like, I'm not going to ever hold back and I don't really live in the regretful spot.

So it's like, okay, like if, you know, this other thing is ending and you're right here, I mean, beautiful, funny, everything I like, lawyers survive, like I can't miss that boat. Like it's just kind of like one of those things. Like I feel like I would be an idiot. You know what I mean? Like, and I'm just not, you know what I mean?

So, I mean, I'm just not. I'm just not, you know what I mean? I'm just not. Yep. And I feel the same. I mean, I hope she feels the same about me. And I feel like that's more so like what it was. It's just kind of like, all right, well, it feels great being friends. And we promise each other all the time, like, we'll never not be friends.

No matter what. At first, it was like, okay, we'll just try physical stuff and see. You know what I'm saying? Because obviously there's tension and stuff like that. Yeah. And like, okay, but when is the right time to do that? And how do we separate romanticism from, you know, intimacy and. How's that going to complicate things? Like, it was just so many questions, but we have always been good conversationalists. you know, intimacy and. How is that going to complicate things?

It was just so many questions, but we have always been good conversationalists. Yeah, we talk already. We had already a lot from our friendship. We talk all day every day. She used to get upset with me because she'd be like, every time we on the phone, we talk for like two hours. I don't have two hours.

Yeah, I'm like, I didn't hear a thing. I'm like, OK, we'll just hang up. Hang up the phone. Like, if you can. You know what I mean? And then eight hours later. You hang up hers, yeah. Exactly, so I don't know,

it's hard to kind of pinpoint when it started to feel more like love. Because I feel like I've always had like a deep, deep admiration for control. And the romance kind of started when we started being on the one-on-ones and we started making each other laugh and just spending nights together and stuff like that.

And it's just like, oh wow, I can see you in my plan for stuff. Oh my gosh. It know, it's not regular. Yeah. It's so fun. You're so chill about all of it too. And I feel like I, it like goes, I want to even like go back to something you mentioned of like being in the Marines, like you're not being a lot of like black queer people, women over the, in the Marines, like, which I a lot of like black queer people women over the in the Marines, like, which I just feel like is notable to talk about, like, how are you so freaking calm about

this? Because if I were in the Marines, and I'm like, okay, so where are the black women? Like, where are they? I don't know. I don't see them. Where are they? So it's like, I mean, I should kind of explain that like the stat for for women is like one of one percent. It's a lot of men around. You know, we're always in admin fields. So when you're at somewhere, you can kind of feel like there's a lot of women where you are. But like, trust me, in like the conglomerate that is the United States Marine Corps, the

black women, we are a very small, decimal point in this space. But there's a lot of queer, but like we're not all here. We're spread out on hundreds of faces all over the continent slash world. So it's just kind of like, I don't know, but I'm a jumper. I'm a leaper. She's not, I am. And I feel like that kind of like helped balance us more. And she was kind of like, girl, I don't like you.

And I'm like, yeah, but you kind of do. You know what I mean? And we're like, aw, but I do. Aw, but you do. Yeah. And so we just got written that space for a little bit. So I feel like that's why it's kind of hard for me to see, say like, okay, when did I finally win the ro-

Do you think you won me over? Yeah. Wow. What do you think you look like? I'm sweating again. Oh. I mean, I would say, because I was kind of always like, this can work.

We can make it work. You saw the vision from the beginning. I will be truthful about that. I was like we can be life together. And I'm very much like I'm just cautious like you know I don't just give out be in my inner circle life thing and I felt like because I'd already given her that, being my inner circle best friend forever, I wasn't thinking, be my girlfriend. You know what I mean?

You know what I mean? Girlfriend. When I met her, she was like, no thanks. I've had like- Girlfriends, yes. But, you know, more from a poly, you know, vibey, you know. Yeah. Me, like, with my parents, same siblings, married 30 plus years, like I come from a very like deep monogamous energy, deep poly

energy. And I was like, forever. So that dynamic at the beginning, I remember that more. So it's just like, okay, she took me to be kind of like her little play thing. And I was okay with that because I just, you know, got out of some things. I'm like, there's people to be played with. There's benefits to play. We have free play. So I agree. So I feel like once we did start to like it, like it's meant

then she kind of changed her mind about. No, it was. Holly stuff. And openness. I see you're, you're blushing so hard. It's not even funny. We did go in initially like, okay, like we're still gonna remain more open or the option

of being open. Yeah. But I feel like the more we or the option of being open. Yeah. But I feel like the more we saw each other, the more we traveling, I was flying her down to see me and she was just like, you know what, I don't know if I wanna do that or I don't know if I want you to do that. Yeah, yeah.

You know? Yeah, yeah. And it's like if we're gonna do it, let's do it. Like let's try, you know what I mean? And we obviously, we don't know anything. We don't know the future, but it's like, if I'm going to do something crazy and take a big swing, might as well be for love with this ridiculous, incredible human. Yeah. That's a leap. That is a leap that I'm taking. For dates. We started dating January.

Or officially. Yeah, our official date is January 20th of this year. Yeah. So. OK, so we're like six months. Yeah, we're basically at six months in. MLK day. But you told me about that like a year ago. So yeah.

That was me just pulling the strings. That was the play. That was the play. It was very complicated. Yeah. OK, but official, official. Official. January 20th. Yeah.

No weird stuff going on. Yeah. No loose ends, like everything. Mm. Wow. And just on the, just to say about the like monogamy poly thing, I think it's also like, and I've done both in my life and I just feel like everyone out there,

it's cool to also just be like, yeah, maybe there's one that's always right for you, but also it's just like different relationships are different things and different people are different things and different moments are different things. And I just think in general, that's something that my queerness has always taught me of there's just not one way to do things and like, what is right in that moment.

Yes. And we're already being revolutionary by existing as queer people. Whatever the fuck y'all think, we're going to just do what feels right for us. That's why I put ourselves to heteronormative ideas in any other space anyway. We'll do it, we'll try it, we'll see what works. Yes. Oh my gosh, it's been, you've been working, it's been going, look, we have, you sent all these pictures. Yes, that's what I was going to say. I'm just like, gonna have to pull this up. Yes. I'm just like going to have to pull this up. Yes.

I just know more about what we were sending. Oh, my gosh. No. So we have all these all these different pictures and moments. In a beautiful church. You're looking gorgeous. And where where are you? Do you all travel a lot together here in Chicago? The next pick? Yeah. This is in New York, the first one that's at the candle lit thing that you thought me for Valentine.

I was at Valentine's Day. Yeah. I got her this. She loves like live music. And obviously, like, she's very creative and artistic, which is another cool thing, because I'm very lawyer, straight brain. And she's very creative, artistic brain. And there was just this live orchestra. It was beautiful.

They played so many amazing compositions, and she surprised me with it. Like, I had no idea. It's like in the rain. I hate no offense to New York, but I hate New York because it's so dirty and rainy and gross. And so we're all in the rain. And I'm like, wow, we're going to get me out of bed to go in the rain, you know. against New York, but I hate New York because it's so dirty and rainy and gross. And so we're all in the rain and I'm like, wow, we're going to get me out of bed to go in the rain, you know, and I'm so grumpy. And then we get to the church and I'm like, it's just gorgeous.

A huge church and it's like hell's wall. And then the live music is playing. And it was such a beautiful day. We went to this cute little diner afterwards. I mean, two Virgos. You two must like just like you're always planning amazing dates for each other. Like, is that a thing? Like, that's so fun. Is that why she plans incredible days? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's definitely there. I think that. I guess just like perspective wise, I'm good at knowing what you would like. She knows me very well. Yeah. And then we went home. She took me from St. Louis and she surprised me, involved me, take us to see Kendrick and SZA.

SZA is from St. Louis. And so she's like, so this is for me. So she flew me there. And that's the way we were. Yeah. The hotel was right by the arch. So I thought it would be that's the way we were. Yeah, the hotel was right by the arch.

So I thought it would be cool to have that as a memento. So this is on the way to. Oh, my gosh. Wait a minute. These pictures are getting hot and heavy. I'm like, am I old enough for this? Like, why? This is obviously New York. Yeah. I was like, is she having fun here? I don't do it all New York. Yeah.

I was like, is she going to come here? I don't do it all the time. Yeah. There's good stuff in New York. I guess you. But yeah, this is on a rooftop with our friends. If you're audio only, you've got to pull up the YouTube. They're just so beautiful together. Like, it's just it's really pretty heartwarming.

Yeah, we just we're we literally pretty much been around each other since we started being around each other. Like, there's not a moment that we're not either planning to see each other or going to see each other. We're just it feels good. It feels natural. We can see from all these pictures, we're just it's easy. Yeah. And so, you know, I know we're I know we're only technically six months in.

What are we gonna do? We're gonna bounce back. We're gonna do like split time New York, North Carolina. We're scheming about. We're planning by ear right now. I'm like, where is my invite to the wedding? And I'm like just keep my thing. We are six months in. We are going to enjoy this. I love this. Honestly I think the biggest thing is I'm traveling a lot for work now. So I got my travel buddy. We're going all around, you know. I haven't announced this publicly,

officially, but I am officially writing a book. Wow! Wow! This is very exciting! I have a really cool book deal. And so you're like writing a book. Actual book deal. I'm writing my memoir right now. And so yeah, I've already been contacted. Macmillan publishers swooped me up and it was just really cool. And yeah, you've been with me the whole time. Oh, and then we got the auction for all the book and I'm meeting with all these publishers and they're like, come here, come here, come here. And I was just like, who should I choose? We've been having a lot of... Who should I choose? Oh my gosh. How does it feel also? Because I'm sure people said, oh my god, Keturah, your story should be a book. And then it's actually becoming a book. Yeah, what is once they saw me on survivor? I think the biggest

Was you need to write a book? And like I said coming out of survivor it was just so many other things I was like I Shared my story in front of what eight million people or so for the first time ever in my life I had never even said, you know, I was raised in a cult before, or I was a child bride before. And now you have millions of people being like, you were a child bride,

and now you're a civil rights lawyer. What, like what? Tell us how that happened. And I really wanted to give that to people because I knew I had affected and supported and touched so many people, but I had to take a little time for myself first and I needed to go through that healing.

So now this feels like my rejuvenation. This is my, you know, what's that animal that has some fire? Phoenix. Phoenix. Yeah, we were just talking about that, like this sort of Phoenix moment. Yeah, this is my Phoenix moment.

We've been talking about, I'm a numerology person. You know, this year is, you know, the year it's a nine year and that's a Phoenix number just like we being reborn, you know, you're about to start a new cycle. So we've been going through heavy trends. Yeah, we have a lot of stuff and she's been by my side the entire time. And as I'm now for the next, you know, six months, my job is just writing my book. And so I get to be writing in North Carolina. Right.

And also traveling, you know, promoting the book, doing more research, all of that. And so I get to like bop around New York, go around the world, and she's going to be with me. Yeah, it's going to be cool. That's such a blessing. I am it's gonna be cool. So beautiful. That's such a blessing. I'm so happy for you today. Seriously. I feel like the main thing that inspired you most too

was people were asking for it during your speaking engagements. Yeah. We did a lot of speaking engagements when she got ready to basically. They were always there, but when she got ready to, you spoke at Georgetown at the woman's yeah, and They would I mean there's footage of her being surrounded by women like please write your book

Yeah, you know like all this stuff. So it's like it was just kind of like well, all right Yeah, we had a lot of talks are you gonna do that? And we had a lot of talks, you know? A lot of like, well, this is what I want, how deep does it want, who do we want it to be, how much do people, well, there's no going back, I guess it's kind of like survivors. And it was kind of like, so I began

this speaking engagement business, and it was like, okay, one here, two here, and then it kept snowballing and it kept taking off. And every time I would go to an event, I'd be like, well, you know, of course, women are gonna get it, you know, women understand hardship. And it well, you know, of course, women are going to get it, you know, women understand hardship. And it was like, well, of course, queer people are going to get it. And of course, lawyers going

to get it. It was like, oh, there's all these people who are connecting and resonating with my story for one reason or another. And every time I would speak, I would have all these people come up to me like you affected me so much. And I thought that was just a survivor thing, because that's what my survivor fan base would say. But now it was people who had watched survivor telling me that. And so we were like, yeah, I got to put this into words and like,

you know, distribute it so that I can be out there. And I'm so grateful. And yeah, we're so proud. It's coming out next year. We need need to we'll keep an eye out for where to pre-order the book and all of that stuff and your book tour. It's just mind-blowing though to think that like we didn't I mean pre-season 41 we didn't have the diversity initiative with a barely, you know, they barely had any type of representation like any of us actually. Literally like nothing, none of it. And so it's just like, it's mindful. I'm thankful for what we have

and I feel like people overlook the value of representation and it's so simple but like the fact that like Survivor could bring this like to bring you two together is the biggest gift possible but then now your love is something that can be shared with so many other people because of Survivor, because of this podcast. All of it is mind blowing to me. Like having a meta moment of like, how did we get here? What? How did we end up here?

But it's so beautiful. Yeah. And I just, I just thought. Yeah, it's always so hard for us to like be linear about it because it's such a roundabout way. And then the, you know, the beginning is the show where we didn't even, I mean, we come from such opposite worlds in all ways, even though we are representation of the same community. Yeah. Right, right, right.

Which is another perfect example of you can't just have one freaking person from each demographic because actually we're all different. Yeah. And you're just two. Right. Right. Or just two. And one third. Right. And we get the multiples. The whole season, like just make it the whole the whole thing. Oh, just clear, clear.

So now that y'all are going to be out in the public, you're you're hard launching. Yeah. What are you most excited for? Or like, what's your vision now that y'all are public? Like, like, what are you? What's the what's the what's what's next for y'all? Mm hmm. Oh, yeah. OK, you look like what? Oh, so we like we love to.

All right. We love to ask. So I know it's a big deal, but yeah, we're going to be on the audible flow with no way. Yeah, we're going to do it. Oh, my God. that's so fun! Did you say with Dash? Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Well, obviously Dash, one of my best friends. Yeah, they're very good. Oh my God, wait. Yeah, Dash loved them. Because Laura's other couple, I was so happy. Yeah, really, yeah. I'm so happy.

I'm really. So she, we reached out to her, and then she was like, I'm like, yeah, that would be, I've never been to a New York Pride, so if New York is different, any. Another pride parade is incredible. Yeah, it's right. It's a great.

So I'm psyched about that. That's going to be like our first like public public outing, I guess you could say. Yeah, yes. And if I'm correct, that's the last weekend of June, right? If you're listening to this, you can still come to New York and see. Next week. Exactly. When you get over there on Sunday, whatever that's the thing. And we're honestly the parade is it's going to be incredible just being in New York for pride.

I know you're in prime. And I'm like, oh, we're going to have a great time. But I think for me, it's just also like, I'm so excited to just show us living in our truth. Like, we kind of both inadvertently, and I know me specifically, yeah, like taking a little bit of a social media break to like recalibrate, like, you know, things done behind the scenes, start writing a book, whatever. And it's like, I'm ready to come back with a vengeance. I'm ready to come back full self. I'm ready to not be you know hiding this or hiding that I want to come back my full true self and I think us being able to come back fully both of us out, both of us proud, both of us queer, both of us together and show,

we can be totally different types of people, right? Like single mom, civil rights New York lawyer, and this like Marine family based person. We came together. Yeah, like we can still write oldest in the middle. Like we can come together and show all the different parts of ourselves. So really we wanna be everywhere. We want to be doing everything around everybody.

Everywhere. So we've created a bubble. Oh, my gosh. We've created a bubble for ourselves out of, like, just protection. People, we've seen what the media can be. Oh, we know. And we didn't want that anywhere near us until we've had a solid foundation and had answers for questions.

Like, because we just think in our own world, it's like, well, we are going to know. Yeah, now we're ready. And now we've kind of had time to talk and have those, you know, harder conversations. So I feel like we're excited. We're ready. I'm excited to be able to post to them at a restaurant with. Although we've been speaking and posting and I've been like, babe. we're excited. I'm excited to be able to post to a matter restaurant with launching for anything. I know it's coming. So I'm like, okay, I can finally, you know, do a little.

I've been keeping her. It'll be like my knee or like her voice is in the back. Yeah. My hands eating. You have some great content. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Wow. We need to cut. Annoying couple. I need the spread. Give us the spread.

I just want to say, it is not annoying. We love it. No, it isn't. We love love. And I feel like the other thing is, people who are listening to this are going to be over the moon. They're going to send you so much love. And just in general, I feel like the people who are still with you. If you got it, please share it with us. Honestly, you can't get enough of it. And I think we both learned that from our own versions of our own journey on Survivor. And yeah, and life.

versions of our own journey on Survivor. And life. Yeah, and life, right? I need to be where the love is at. Yeah, I just want joy. I just want positivity. I'm tired of being scared or sad or stressed or anxious. Like I literally am a queer woman living in 2025 in America. I got enough pain, fear, scare, anxiety, all of that.

Like I just want joy and peace and beauty. So if you got love to send, send it and we will send some right back. Send it right back to you. Yeah. Exactly. Something so important, like despite all of it, you are living, like that's the thing.

And it's just, it's beautiful to see. It's beautiful to live on this planet where you're living, doing it all. We'll see you on the audible float at New York Pride. Yay! With Dash Cats. Shout out to Dash Cats. I just texted the Dash and I was like,

we're talking about you on the Pride as well. I'm not going to call them either. So we love, I just, I really want to thank you both so much for coming out here and like showing us your love. Like it really has brightened me up so much talking to you both and seeing you together. And I just know it's gonna mean so much to so many people. And we normally end these episodes on,

is there anything you'd like to say to queer fans out there or anyone out there listening, wherever they are in their journey or searching for the beautiful queer love that you all have, anything you wanna send out to the fans out there. Oh, man, no pressure. I would just say it takes time, you know, like I have so many failures, whether that's love, whether that's career.

And I don't be afraid to start over. You know, like I'm a big gardener and sometimes you just gotta weed everything out, you know, and just start again. And that it ends up being the biggest blossom, biggest blooms that you've ever had. Like, I just, I'm not afraid of the pivot. And I feel like in our community,

you can't be afraid of the pivot, even if it's closed doors for your queerness or whatever. Just know there is a space for you. There is a person for you and we are here for you. You belong with us and it's okay. We weren't the cool people in school maybe, but we are now. Look at us.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was like semi-popular before. I was still weird. And I'm a fan of the weirdos. And just know we end up on Survivor, okay? We end up being Marines. We end up running the world, and it's awesome. So yeah, that's my love for them.

Honestly, you said it amazing. Like I echo everything you said. It's like, I also am a fellow weirdo. Like. Yeah, so I'm a fellow weirdo. Like, I'm sure the weirdos and the khakis and the nerds, the office and the queen. Yeah. I want to be boring and normal anyway. Like what even is that? No,

no, I'm just, I just mean, when I say that, I don't even mean sexuality or orientation. I mean, I don't even mean that, I don't even mean sexuality or orientation based. I just want to say, like, there are so many moments and I feel like we all have that in life. But even if you just watch a glimpse of our individual stories in our individual lives, or just our time on Survivor, Like, you're gonna get out of hits, and that doesn't mean you knock down forever.

Like, we get up, we fighting, we shine, regardless. Regardless. It'll be fine. Mm-hmm. And we love you. And we love you! And love really just makes it all better, literally. Like, I can get very like, oh my God, everything is terrible.

Let me just self- self isolate and forget everything. And then it was like, oh wait, love brings you back out. Love brings you back. And that's whether that's friendship, family, creative family, chosen family, or you know, girlfriend. Yeah, relationship. Yeah. I don't know.

You have to see the way they're looking at each other. I know, I'm like, this is what you want. Like I'm not. I'm like, wait, you know, listen, this was so beautiful and amazing. Thank you both so, so, so, so, so much. Matt, is there anything else I'm missing? No, just happy pride.

Happy pride. Happy pride. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got the headbutt. I got the headbutt. Happy pride. I love you both so much. Seriously, thank you.

Love you so much. People that we even want to come through. Make it a space. Thank you so so much. Seriously, thank you. Oh, I love you so much. Thank you to the people that we even want to feel comfortable sharing this space with. Thank you so much for listening. My name is Grace Leder. You can find me on social media at hifromgracerecto from Grace. And I'm Evy Gigota. You can find me on Instagram at Evy Jag and on TikTok with the account name Evy from Survivor. And I'm Matt Scott.

You could find me at MattScottGW on all platforms. And this is The Pride Has Spoken. This is The Pride Has Spoken. That was pretty good. Yeah. Discover the magic of Bet MGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you're actually at the casino. The excitement doesn't stop there.

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and make same-day withdrawals if you win. Download the BetMGM Ontario app today. You don't want to miss out. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario.