RHAP: We Know Survivor - The Pride Has Spoken | Episode 19: Parvati Shallow

Episode Date: June 29, 2025

This episode features Survivor legend, Parvati Shallow.

No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum Points on your first five orders. Hello and welcome to The Pride Has Spoken. My name is Matt Scott. My pronouns are he, him, and of course I'm not alone. I'm joined by Dr. Evy Jagoda. Evy, how are you doing? Well, Matt, I'm living in a fantasy

where I get to talk to all the people I wanna talk to about the things I wanna talk to. And it's a pretty good life, you know? So I'm here, I'm thrilled. I use they and pronouns. And I'm so glad that it's not just you and me, Matt, that we have with us our lovely third co-host, Grace Leder. How you doing, Grace?

Hi, my name is Grace. You see her pronouns. I'm very excited to be here. What a lovely finale that we have in stores. Everyone can see in the episode title or wherever they're watching. So the light is a treat. What a get. How did we how is this our life? You know what I'm saying?

I do feel like there's a bit of me that hasn't accepted this reality at all. So we're here. We did it. Parvati Shallow. Is that how you pronounce her last name? Did you have it? Shallow. I'm so glad I'm sitting.

I got weak in the knees. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that either. So no, are you? This is that. You know, just like what we got to talk to. I mean, I just think if you had told me if you had told me when I first watched my carnage, you will go on survivor and you will get to talk to poverty shallow. I don't know which one I would have been more excited.

You know what I'm saying? And now I've gotten a new boat. So yeah, doing pretty good. Doing pretty good. Great day. Very funny day. And last week's episode, it's like made headlines all over everywhere. Oh, magazine parade. And all the places breaking news and the pride is spoken. Yeah, and it's just a fun interview.

It just feels really nice to be able to do this and have this space where we get to bring joy and positivity and like and queer stories to people. It's frankly an overall dark time and a hard time for queer people, especially queer people in the US and obviously around the world as well. And just like it feels really special. Nice to be able to create this platform where people feel safe, hard launching their relationship and where, you know, we'll get queer icons to come on now. And it's just like it's special and cool.

And I'm grateful to both of you for building it with me. Yeah. I know. Thank you. Thankful to you, both of you and thankful to myself as well. Yeah. Mostly thankful to grace. But I will say it is, mostly thankful to grace. But I will say it is kind of wild to me. And I do feel like this is its own story outside the podcast, but that people feel comfortable coming to the Pride has spoken as a place to come out as a place, as you said, to hard launch their relationships as a place to talk about their sexuality and gender identity

and all these other aspects of their lives. So it's like, I just feel like it's really humbling and I haven't fully digested it. So it's awesome. Some random survivor out there who's ready to come out, you could do it on your own or let us know. You can hold off till June 20th. Yes. Please be like Asia and wait to come out to do it on this podcast. That's the appropriate way. Just like be in the closet for like 11 months. That's it.

That's not a lot. But then you're going to have people out there that are like, I can't come out until I get on Survivor and then I can come on the Pride of Spoken. And it's just, you should come out when you're ready. Yeah, that's where you could use the hashtag the Pride has Spoken, tweet it, we'll retweet it or what all the re blue sky, reskeet it, re whatever. So just, you know, you could come out whenever you want.

But if you're on, if you were on Survivor, you have to wait until June next year. Those are the rules. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we have have with just a final reminder because it's only a few more days left in June in Pride Month. And so we are still selling the Pride Spoken merch. We have new merch. I did think of something as we're sitting in like the hottest heat wave that's like ever happened in my life. Where a few months ago, Derek, not a few months

ago, about a month ago, Derek, lovely Derek, who works for our JP and I were talking about which merch items like I really think a sweater would be great. He's like, it might get a little hot for us. So people might not be as inclined to buy a sweater that is has proven to be so true that like I got a sweater and it's a ginormous heat wave that's happening, but they are available. But you can also get some other things, stickers, a mug. I have a mug on there as well. And so just a reminder, you can go and buy those things. And if you buy them during June, it'll be entered into a raffle draw, you're going to get a link somewhere between probably like before the end of the week,

the first week of July, to like sort of enter yourselves into which items you would want to win. And then we'll give you about a week or so to do that. And then we'll draw them. And so you should hear by like mid July if you you, if you won any of the lovely raffle items and again, the only way you can be entered into that raffle is by buying a Pride of Spoken piece of merch, but that's not the only thing that you're doing when you buy a Pride of Spoken merch, Eby. That's right.

Because when you are buying Pride of Spoken merch, you are making a donation, all the profits from the shirt. The money is going to the Trevor Project, which is the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention nonprofit for LGBTQ plus young people. And this, as you heard Grace talk about in the last episode, donating to the Trevor Project right now is is more important than ever as the federal national LGBTQ plus suicide hotline is being

cut thanks to RFK. We obviously hate that. That is a nightmare that will lead to people dying. And something that will help fill the gap that has always been filling the gap is the Trevor Project Suicide Prevention and Crisis Intervention Hotline for for young people, for LGBTQ plus young people specifically. So supporting their work is more important now than ever. And it's just like it's it's it's not an overstatement to say that it's going towards saving the life of a queer person. Like, it's just it's just it it's that heavy right now. And so, you know, get it, get a mug, please.

Like, it's just this is really important and it's really upsetting. And so like the little bit that we can each do to help make sure that the Trevor Project has all the money they need to take on the extra work that they're going to be taking on, you know, the better. So please. Yeah. Yeah. Or donate to them at the Trevor Project dot org. Such important work. And also, I just really appreciate seeing queer people being heroes for other queer people, whether that's you,

the listener, if you are a queer person, whether that's the Trevor Project. Like, yeah, this times are rough, but like, we don't give up in the face of that and we keep going. So happy pride. Like that's amazing. But we're here. We have an interview. Anything else to say? Can I give one?

I'm going to give one things we'd like to thank our lovely pod father, Rob Cicernino for giving us the opportunity to do this. Every June, I want to show out some of the other people who help behind the scenes, including Sam Moore and Derek and Scott, Jess Sterling, Jose does the graphics, Brandon Donlon, who does the social media clips. Did I mention Sam Moore? I don't know that I should mention him twice. Yeah, don't don't. It'll go to his head. More Sam Moore.

You know how he gets. And if I miss anybody else from the RGP team who works on this project, thank you. And we appreciate you. Jess Sterling for helping with editing and all sorts of stuff. Yeah, but she's worthy of saying that. Yeah. Yeah. So beautiful.

Look at us being supported and look at us having... Talking to Parvati! Yeah, I know. Trying to say, come on. Come on, get to it. Get to it. Parf. All right. Here's our conversation with poverty shallow.

OK, everybody, this does not feel real. This is this is a fever dream. Certainly, Matt will wake me up tomorrow and it will turn out that this didn't happen. But if my eyes are true, what is happening right now is that we have with us a true queen, an icon, a legend of survivor, a legend of reality TV. Studies show that one out of two queer people, she's their queer awakening. That science, trust me.

All right. Yeah. A survivor winner queer awakening. That's science. Trust me. Right. Yeah. A survivor winner, a two time finalist. The list goes on and on. I can't possibly even do it at all justice. But suffice to say, we are thrilled, excited over the moon to welcome to the pride has spoken the true legend, Harvardie Shallow, everybody. Huzzah. Huzzah! It's magical.

Oh my gosh. And happy Pride. Like there's, there's so much to celebrate with it being Pride month. Obviously there's, you know, we'll get to the down the line talking about in future months, Australian Survivor, Australia versus the World, all that fun stuff. Derek, your phenomenal podcast producer, also happens to be one of our podcast producers. So we have that in common. We're celebrating that. Nice Girls Don't Win is coming out soon. So there's so much. How are you doing all of this?

There are a million moving parts happening right now. So, Millie, you just saw my daughter come in with our kittens too. So I like, I haven't slowed it down. Why would I have had kittens in the mix right now? But you know, here's the deal. This is like karma because when Amma turned three, she said to me, all right, when I turn seven, I'm gonna get a kitten.

And I was like, I won't make that deal. I shook her hand, I made the deal. Oh, here she's no sister about what I'm saying. So I said, of course I'll make that deal. So she's about to be seven on Monday. This is not one. Oh, is that Violet? Hi, Violet.

It's Violet. And his paws are more. I think they're camera shy, Hi, violet. I think their camera shy, honey, though they don't like. So cute. So cute. We went out to Florida and our friend Ethan's on who wants to mess. He found all these kittens under his neighbor's shed. There were like four kittens under there. And we went to Florida and got to. That's amazing. So the cats are survivors. Wow.

So much in common. Yeah. Give us some time so we can have a chat. That's not about the kids. And then I'll come out in a little bit. OK. I will also say like kittens are very kittens are very queer coded and also like that's a whole other conversation. OK, so I'm just deep diving. I'm embedding myself in the community. Right.

Parvati, we're really just so happy you're here. Like from the from the minute you like from the minute you came out, we were like, one day maybe Parvati will come on The Pride is Spoken. And I know that the listeners are just so excited. People listen to this podcast like and really, they really live to hear the stories of players from Survivor that they know and love, but didn't get to hear, you know, their their full story and other pieces of their life. And I just know people are just going to be so, so, so thrilled that you're here. It feels like you're coming into our little secret family and now you're here with

us. And it's just really special. We're stirring the pot over here. So here we go. All right. I love it. Let's go. Let's do this. Well, like the first thing we're really curious about, how have you been spending this month, Pride Month? I swear, and I don't know if this is just me, but I have just seen a lot of drag queens, drag shows, gay bars popping up on your timeline and feeds and all that. But yeah, what have you been up to this month in particular with it being Pride, but just in general,

there's a lot going on. I think the whole theme of Pride and the emotional tone of the month is joy and vibrant colors. So I'm just letting chaos reign. You know, we went to Florida and we got these kittens. And then I was like, Lisa, Ethan's wife, I was like, we need to do a photo shoot. And so she dressed us in this, these wild outfits. And we took these like absurd kind of Wes Anderson style photos with these kittens.

I'm like, that's my MO this month. I just went on um Courtney's podcast for R&R who I met at the John Lovett show and talked about Drag Race and I mean Courtney Act right yeah Courtney Act and um I've been doing a lot of drag shows recently this is like sort of a new wave of career path that has opened up for me. Totally. And it's really fun. So I have coincidentally on the same day that my book is published, a drag show in Brooklyn at three dollar bill. And I'm like, let's just extend Pride Month through July.

Yes, that's right. You can't box us in. OK, we demand more than one month spillover. Let's go. Yeah, that's right. Like when I was when I'm like, oh, I'm queer when I realized I was queer, which may had to tell me because I was like, I'm I was like, it's a really cool story. Actually, I don't know. I might have shared this on another podcast, but or or maybe this is an exclusive for you guys. But I when I was on, it's a really funny story actually. I don't know, I might have shared this on another podcast, or maybe this is an exclusive for you guys.

But when I was on Traders, the show was about to air. You've heard this before? No. They sent me like a PR form for like marketing and stuff. And they're like, okay, well tell us what your preferences are so we can kind of do the, like we can organize your marketing and publicity for like what fits you.

And so they had a drop down for LGBTQ plus and they said, are you, are you an ally or like none of the above? And I was like, I'm an ally. Classic. And then you were like, no, you're not. I was like, I need to break it to you. But I was like, oh my God, it blew my mind.

I was like, Oh, my God, I'm queer. That's so exciting. And so then I just really went for it. I told everybody and I've never put myself back in the box and I never will. That's so amazing. Yeah, there's so much to that. And it's I don't know, I just think it's so beautiful to have like that awakening happen in that moment with a drop down form. So there we go. But it's so interesting to me,

because for years, like even before that point, like I've heard people, we've heard people refer to you as a queer icon. I'm sure you've heard this before. And so like, one, like, what was what's that even like when you're like, I'm a queer icon? Like, I'm an ally. Here we are. Like, we've been talking about this for years, to actually going to a point where you're like, Wow, I'm, I'm, I'm one of you. I loved it. I was like, Oh, this feels, it feels right. You know, when you put on a pair of clothes that fits, you're like,

yeah, it's not like you have to put a button somewhere else or fit yourself into something. I was just like, oh, and it's it was really joyful for me. And like, cool. I was just really excited about it. I love that. I feel like we all have those stories of like, I remember when the gay marriage Supreme Court decision happened. I was like, oh, my God, I'm just so happy for gay people. I don't know why I'm crying, but I'm just so happy for them. There's other people.

Definitely not me. I don't know why I'm crying, but I'm just so happy for them. Oh, my God, I know I'm like that. So I'll like I'll cry at Disney movies like that. Yeah, right. Yeah. Watch the greatest Showman recently. And when it's like all the misfits, he pushes them out of the room with the society people.

I was like, oh my god. And then when they sing their song and they claim their power, I'm like sobbing on the couch. Yes. He's like, why are you crying? I'm like, I don't know. It's just so sweet. Yes. Oh my gosh. They're standing up for themselves't know, it's just so sweet. Yes.

Oh my gosh. They're standing up for themselves. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. The oddball is taking their power. That's really what it's about, you know? We talk about that sometimes too, like how there are these things that are queer coded where it's like, oh, I just like really love this thing

that happens to also have all of these themes in common with like my own identity. So that's, that's why you think. Why do you guys think that survivor is so popular in the gay community? I'm sure you've answered this. Oh my gosh. No, but we, we get this question all the time.

We talk about this all this question all the time. And I feel like there's just like not like one answer, but I think like some of the things that come to me, especially when I think about like, you know, me as a viewer watching you and thinking like, wow, poverty, I am just living for poverty's game, especially Micronesia, like everything about that. I mean, first of all, it's like in so many ways, a story of like women power and women love being like the dominant thing that like takes over

the universe, you know what I mean, which is just like queer as fuck, in my opinion. And so rare on Survivor. Yes, yes, yes. And so rare on Survivor. And I think that there's also like we talk a lot about how queer people, you know, growing up in our lives, there's a lot of tracking social situations and like, where am I going to be safe? I present to people in this moment?

Like, what's a thing to talk about so that they don't think of me as weird or like anything like that? And I think like that sort of like ability to socially navigate and things like that often makes queer people good survivor players. And I think it makes people wanna watch the show and like, you know, think about those dynamics.

I don't know, does that resonate? No, yeah, how does that feel? Like, because I would say I couldn't have said it better myself because people have asked this question before. I'm like, I don't know. It's like, you know, you just have like, hot people on islands. Like, you know, who doesn't love that? But that doesn't hurt. That doesn't know. But I do feel like that piece of what Evie said of like, yeah, like the things that we have to navigate different social situations. There's like so much that we have to think through at times. And then also the other piece of that, which builds on what Evy says that oftentimes, especially if you're not out, there's like a layer

here, you know, and so you might be presenting one thing, like if you're strategizing on the islands, like I'm presenting this to you, but also here's this other thing happening. I don't know. Do you have theories on this at all? Yeah, I think that that's really interesting to think about. I know. I don't know. I think the girl power thing is a big one. I think with me, I've been going to these drag shows, you know, and doing meet and greets. And I haven't been exposed to that amount of fans in a really long time. Like I'll see people at the airport or

whatever on the street occasionally, but like a pack of fans who are telling me you're my queer awakening, man, male and female. They're telling me this. And I'm like, Oh, my god. So I, yeah, I guess it is something, I think it's both of those things that you were just talking about. Cause I have always felt a bit of, like a little bit like a, an outcast or a misfit,

but like I've never really fit within the mainstream of this is polite society and this is how you break within it and succeed within the confines of like society structures. Like I have no interest in that. Discover the magic of Bet MGM Casino where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you're actually at the casino.

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Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with I Gaming Ontario. I think there's also something really like the whole premise of survivor

where you're taking like the wilderness, which is like, I think often thought of as this is a space just for, you know, boy scouts with their prepped gear and whatever. Right. And then the whole premise of survivors, we're taking random people that that's not their real life and look how they can thrive and survive or not in this situation, right? And I think especially that the first winner was a gay man really proved like,

oh, this is not gonna be what you think it is. This is not gonna be just like the military men are winning every season. This is something different. And I think it really like, I think that also really speaks to queer people of like, we could do that. You know, I could do that.

I've never camped before. I could go out there and do that. You know what I mean? I think that's why queer people love you, love Saree. You know what I mean? Like, like, like it's like, that's not supposed to be for us, but hell yeah, it can be, you know? Right.

Oh my God, this is going to be very disappointing for your fans to know that I've never made a fire in the history of my time. Is that true? No, don't admit we need to cut it out. We'll edit it out. No, I think that says everything. You don't need to know how to make the fire. You need to know how to get someone to help you to make the fire for you. Come on. I would agree or like not put you in to make fire. That's another piece. You know, in my in my 17 days on Survivor, which is nothing on, I'm sure the over 100 that probably only 26. There were only 26.

I didn't, you know, that anyway, I never made fire either. So, you know, it's all good. Yeah, I know. I couldn't. I couldn't make fire with the no. But like truly Micronesia is like a lesbian fever dream. I mean, I just like I feel like I watched like several seasons of the show before I got to that. I was like, I can't believe that this exists. This is here for me.

I feel like for us, for the lesbian community, like it's just so amazing to watch you all just like like, yeah, eat the men, the Black Widow. Like all of it is just like, it's just, it's just, I can't believe it happened. Let's go. I want to go into that a little bit because like Black Widow Brigade, like you of course Parvati,

there's Alexis, Amanda, Sarine, Nablipol in. I have a friend, Alex Gardner or Alex G, who made this game, and this must have been like 2020 because it was Deep pandemic and he made this game that was called Black Widow Brigade on YouTube and it's literally like based on You and the Black Widow Brigade as characters and I'm just like What is our life that this is the fandom around not only just survivor but around this specific game? So it's like so fascinating to me that that's a thing, but I'm curious, like we're freaking out, we're nerding out, we're fans, of course,

but like what has been the most or like most wild thing you've seen from fans along the way? Because I feel like seeing someone make a game about a thing that you did is interesting, but I'm sure there's been a lot of that like fandom or a lot of those experiences where you're like, wow, I didn't expect that homage to me or a survivor this like one specific period in your life, right? Well, you know, it's kind of funny now is, well, people have like named their babies after me and stuff.

And I'm like, oh, that's a tough gig for a kid. It's hard. I wrote about it in my book. I wrote about like, the guru named me from where I came from. And it was a tough name to have growing up. Now I have embraced it. But I'm like, don't leave your kid after me. It's not poverty. No.

Right. Oh, no. For her day. You could not have been for the longest time. Finally figured it out. I think Russell says it wrong, like the whole season of Heroes. Oh, gosh. Yeah. I had to choose my battles with that guy. Totally. Yeah, totally.

But now people on Cameo, this is the funniest stuff that I get. It's like people on Cameo will ask me to like burn them. Oh, no. They're like, I forget the word for it, but they're roast. Roast. Yeah. Yeah. Never made fire, but she can do a good roast. I've never. Oh, I love that. I'm really having fun roasting people on cameo now. That's so mean to them.

I let yeah, like, I don't know. Other than that, it's it's I'm sure there's been a ton. But I can't. It's like in one ear out the other kind of. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, go for it. Okay, since we're in the Micronesia general genre,

I don't even know how to ask this as a question, but I'm just gonna try. I'm just gonna go for it. Okay. One of the most iconic scenes for me in that season is Natalie Bolton's final tribal question to you of to the effect that you haven't seen it in a in a long time. It's the effect of, you know, poverty, your game.

You you flirt a lot. You charm people. How does that translate to the bedroom? And, you know, again, already a iconic queer moment on Survivor before knowing that you were queer. I don't know. What was that moment like for you is one question. And the other moment is what is it like for you now? I was like so confused by the question.

Sure. The way she phrased the question, I was like, what do you mean? Right. Do I flirt with people in the bedroom or I didn't know what she meant and I really wanted to give her what she you mean? Right. Do I flirt with people in the bedroom or I didn't know what she meant and I really wanted to give her what she wanted in that moment.

I was like, I wanna tell you what you wanna hear. So, I hope you help me understand. Jeff's face was like, brrrr. And you know, hold on. But I knew I was gonna get Natalie's vote anyways. We were so close. So I was just like. I was just flirting with her.

I just flirted. And you got her vote and you. And that was correct, I think. Yeah. And still to this day, I'll still flirt with Natalie. We and I don't need her vote anymore. But we did a paper magazine. And like we put mud all over each other's bodies and took a shower together and they put all the photos up on the paper magazine article. We just have a great life,

you know, that that exists. That's great. We're going to need to have Natalie on in the future at some point to give like the other side of the story. Like what's what was the thought process around the question? What can you possibly answer to that question? I think she was like, you were with her, right? That's what she wanted. Yeah, and you knew that, and that's why you're the queen. Yeah. I'm pretty good at reading the room.

Oh my gosh. This is amazing. But it's so interesting because, again, this is the queer icon thing of it all, where there's so many times where I'm like, and, this is like the queer icon thing of it all where there's so many times where I'm like, and I even booked this up, I was like, in quotes, queer icon poverty, like you see stuff come up before you were out, of course, but like, we've talked a little bit about why you're queer icon all that. After coming out, you did play, you have played a number of games.

I'm sure there might be other games in the future, who knows. But like, what was, I don't, I'm curious. And I think this is something that Evy brought up beforehand, before recording this is like, did you have you noticed any difference in playing these games from before coming out or realizing you're queer versus after coming out as queer. And I think of like Deal or No Deal Island, but the traders obviously, so on and so forth. Yeah, it just gives me more maneuverability. Like, I just, there's more ways to connect with people.

I think, I don't know that it reduces my threat level in any way, but it does make people curious about me. They like they want to understand. So I think even though people know that I'm a threat and that I'm a dangerous player, they still want to get close to me because they want to figure me out. Mm hmm. So I think adding in the layer of now I'm queer, people are like, wait, what? She wasn't before. Now she is.

And it sort of boggles people's minds so they can't like wrap their head around me and contain me. They can't put me in a box. So like, how do you fight a shadow? Like you can't. Wow. Is there, maybe they should call you me in a box. So like, how do you fight a shadow? Like you can't. Wow. Is there, maybe they should call you Parvati Shadow. Okay, that was corny. That was good.

I'll see myself out. But no, I'm curious, is there an example, that was horrible. I'm sure no one's ever made a shallow joke before. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Is there an example of what you're talking about though? Because I'm curious, especially thinking of traders, but also Dondi,

like anything that jumps out in terms of anyone who was like leaning in, especially because of just all these aspects of you. Well, Philip on Deal or No Deal Island was like a fan of May and knew about me. Island was like a fan of May and knew about me. And Seychelles also wanted to get close because of that. And CK on that. So I had a lot of even though David was my primary alliance, because we knew each other from Survivor. And I was like, guys, a gamer, I'm gonna lock in with him. And then CK was like all these

other people were knew who I didn't know. But CK knew that I was queer or gay and are queer and she's a lesbian. So she was like, Oh, cozying up we were Yeah, it just kind of cozying up, we were, yeah, it just kind of, there is something about using that magnetism of attraction and the flirtatiousness. If the game context allows for it, it's good to lean into it because it's just another element where you can kind of pull people in to work together

and bond and connect with. So you can make game moves with them if there's a little distraction. It doesn't work every time and not every game is conducive to it. Like Trader's for me was not very conducive to that. Though I had a good flirtation going for a while before I killed her.

Oh, I can see it. Yeah. Oh, I can see it yet. Well, that's why she would drink drink the chalice, of course. You know, you know, for a consume. Yeah, I can see we had a little a cute little flirty friendship. But then she had to die. So I was like, no, I'm not close enough with anyone else. I was so messed up. And I wrote that story in the book.

So it's actually like really fun to kind of hear my what like what was going on in my mind because you just see it on the show play out as like the front facing performance and then the interviews but you can't like I talk about the feelings that I had and I had to make that choice. Poor, sweet Ekinsoil. I'm listening to a song about her. It's like, oh, sweet Ekinsoil. Oh, my God, that's amazing.

Yeah, that's really amazing. On a totally not queer note on this front, I just want to bring up it was announced so we could talk about our dear podcast boss, Rob Sestrino. Yes. And the traders. And obviously we won't see that until early 2026. But I mean, I don't even know if there's any question I had in relation to that.

I don't know if there's advice you would have for Rob, even though he's either in Scotland. How do you think he's going to do? How do you think he's going to do? Yeah, I don't know if he has the flirt game going on. Well, you know what he does have going on? He has like, pop of air energy. That's going to help him a lot. Also, I saw that reel that y'all posted on. Oh, my God, Rob being like a real daddy. And I was like, oh, my God, he's going to say in this podcast,

that it's like it's like Rob says, you know, my mind. And he is a mindset. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I really like that. I think he's going to bring it. I'm excited to watch him play. When he's in the zone, he he gives daddy for sure. He you know, he's in charge.

He's in charge around here. You know, I'm really is. Yeah, I love that vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to say, I mean, we've been said around is queer the the right label for you? Is that feeling like the right word? Like, is there any elaboration you want to do on that? I know people have different relationships to labels and labels can be hard and weird.

But queer, queer is the best best term for you. Is that right? That works for me. on that. I know people have different relationships to labels and labels can be hard and weird, but queer is the best best term for you. Is that right? I think that works for me. It's like, yeah, it feels open and expansive. And that's really like what works for me. But sometimes I say different things too. So I'm just not really that like, I don't really care that much about labels because it's not the feeling for me. Then I don't need people to see me in any certain way. And I think that's the work of my lifetime. And where I've gotten to through the process

of writing my book is I really noticed how much in my younger years, my earlier years, especially going through high school and college and then getting cast on television so young, I wanted people to see me a certain way. I wanted people to like me. I wanted people to have good opinions of me. But now after having lived so much life

and gone through so much intense, so many intense experiences and then written my way through so much intense, so many intense experiences, and then written my way through it and processed. I'm in a place where I'm like, I don't really care what you call me. Like, if you're gonna be mean, I'm gonna block you, but like, it's, I'm not precious about how people see me and like being labeled, whatever.

Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. That makes so much sense to me. And I think I have a similar relationship with queer and labels like that in general. And I think something related to your survivor games, and I heard you in the interview you did with Rob about the book, which people should totally check out. It was a fantastic interview.

And you talked about how after Micronesia, people people really are maybe after Heroes, Villains 2, like people really put you in this box forever of like black widow scary, like that's really a clear box in people's minds, like, you know, reduced down to the hot girl who's going to manipulate the men and like kill them or something. And which is awesome. It just, you know, if you're going to. It's not right. Yeah. Cecilia. Exactly. And that adds such a layer. We're all terrified now. It makes sense to me that you were saying, you know, as you've played these games

now, since you've come out, that there's some additional level of like approachability or something like that. And it makes a lot of sense to me of just like you've that just by being like, I'm queer, that violates some expectation people have of what the black widow is, even though me watching it as a queer person was like, this is the queerest thing I've ever seen in my life. You know, like, yeah, it's interesting. I think that's one of the joys of having the queer identity

and embracing that for myself is it has opened me up to a whole new way to connect with this community and people who were fans of mine in the first place. And it sort of does make us have a shared, like something that's really precious about me is how I love people. And I think that's precious for everyone. Like that's our deepest, sweetest part of ourselves

is how we love people. So if you and I share that in common, that's a really, that's like a really strong connection just right there, just from that one, embracing that label for me. And it's great. It gives me a big boost. Oh, yeah.

And to have that shared experience of like at some point in your life, you had to do this thing of figuring this out about yourself, of telling it to people, you know what I mean? Like, there's just like this commonality of that shared experience that I always find like when I'm talking to fans at events and stuff, I'm like, you know, sometimes I'm struggling with with what to say. And then the person's like, I'm queer. I'm like, thank God. and stuff, I'm like, you know, sometimes I'm struggling with what to say and then the person's like, I'm queer. I'm like, thank God.

Okay, now we've got, you know, now we've got a common idea. Now you have a common ground to connect from. Well, that's what, like, that's the cool thing about like the Pride has spoken even is just that there shockingly haven't been a ton of spaces in the survivor community that are already super queer. So the fact that like this is an entry point, I think, Evy, we were talking at the start of the season about like this. What was it like? Oh, I could be a guest on the Pride has spoken as like

a way of saying like, yeah, I'm one of I'm in the community. So it's just nice that we have this thing to bond over. But I wanted to bring up, you just in this conversation reminded me of something that you were talking about with Amy Bean, the incredible amazing Amy Bean on the Nice Girls Don't Win podcast from your book, Nice Girls Don't Win, because we were talking about just this idea of what people connecting this chapter non-binary, which we're excited to read, but the fact that I believe it was like the sound engineer of the audiobook was saying, oh my gosh, I connect with that so much. I am so curious, like, because we don't want to spoil the book, we'll get to the book, but what is that chapter non-binary like about from your perspective. That actually was my favorite chapter to read

when I recorded the audio book and I cried and I had to like go to the corner and cry and then come back and be like, okay, all set, let's read. Wow. It's really wild to like read this. Oh, my book is really emotional. It's like an emotional ride. And that chapter was like, it was that chapter

articulated, it landed all of the work that I had done to heal myself, to take really good care of myself, to move beyond survival mode, to move beyond this sort of pleasing, like to say safe kind of mode of operating, to move past a place of this is the right way of doing life and this is the right way of being in relationship and this is how I act if I'm a woman and this is how I act if I'm dating and I date men and this is how I act if I'm a woman and this is how I act if I'm dating and I Men and this is how they're supposed to act. Yeah, and they hate me like I would just contort myself

to perform woman without knowing I was doing it. Yeah, whenever I was in the presence of a man and When I started dating May, all of that just went away. And I didn't have to try to make it go away. It just didn't exist. And so there was so much freedom and expansion inside of that experience with May in this sort of chapter that I talk about and it changed my whole paradigm for how I live my life. So much less judgment and so much less performance and so much more authenticity and just this is right for me, this is not right for me. And I get to like, I get to just be free to be myself

without all of those rules of femininity or whatever that I put on myself and that's culture puts on us. And I just like let it all go, like you're holding a balloon and it just flies away. Oh my gosh. Sorry, it's like getting to me because part of what, I love that you brought up the question of like,

why do queer people love Survivor? Because I think even just the expectations around gender and how it's performed and how we show up, like what does it look like for me to be a man? Like what is masculinity? What isn't that? And then how do I just live my life as me, regardless of what the norms are? And how do I just be myself? Like, that's something that queer people are constantly being pushed to do and asked to do. And people in general are being pushed to do and asked to do, which I think is,

like, regardless of the conversation explicitly being there or not around you, I do think that's one reason that so many people have gravitated to you is just like being yourself and like doing your thing and like celebrating that and constantly learning who you are and evolving and just being true to you, which is really awesome. and just being true to you, which is really awesome. And it changes. We change over the course of our lifetime if we're doing life right. Yeah. Life gives you experiences. It gives us material to work with.

And I believe we're all like life artists. So we're all creating with the world around us and whatever experiences we're offered up. So if you can be more in tune with yourself, you're gonna just live a more abundant, rich life. And it's so much more fun to do it like that. I totally relate to that. And I think that's one of the,

people think about queer dating as just like, oh, that's who you love. But then it's also like kind of what you're getting at is it's like you're throwing out the entire script, like so much of straight dating is. And you don't even necessarily realize it because you're just doing it is this is what the man's supposed to do. This is what the woman's supposed to do. Even even in the most like in college, I had a boyfriend like he was not super masculine. I clearly was not super feminine.

And yet still we were doing the stuff, you know what I mean? Cause that's just what you're doing in society. And that's just everything you're taught from a, you're a little kid and you say, I'm friends with that boy. And they're like, ooh, is that your boyfriend? You know, like those are, that is in there for so much of your life.

And then like, I, I really resonate with like the first queer, like queer, even like kiss I had, I was like, oh my God, I'm playing such a different role in this kiss than I normally get to play. And I'm obsessed with it. How do I do this again? You know? And I feel like, yeah, that shift is enormous.

And then you're like, oh, there just doesn't have to be a script ever actually, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Being queer is good. It's I agree. I think it really does, like, really does, like for me, it like really just like open the door to so many other things in life where it's just like, yeah, you don't need to that.

There are so many scripts that were given. Right. So whether you're straight or queer, you can throw those away. And yeah, you can frickin go on reality TV. You can, you know, date whoever you want. It's just like you can be whatever gender you are. It's just. Yeah. Yeah. And I really dived into that in the book at the towards the end and then not in the Beyond Binary chapter.

And it's about the hallmark of healing. And it's being able to hold space for shades of gray. And no and to not have to name or define something or have it be kind of categorized. It's just it let it exist. And if you can let something exist, that is sort of paradoxical. There's people in my life who have really hurt me. And also I still, I have love for them or compassion and acceptance. So it's like, can you hold both of those things?

So it doesn't have to be so rigid, all or nothing. And I think that that's really what the whole chapter is about. It's just about like kind of blooming like a flower and letting yourself have that, take up all that space and then just feel the sunlight and just let it feel good. And then just move towards what feels good without having to necessarily name it or know what it is or know where it's going. It's like, can you kind of stay just in that space of presence? In embodied presence.

And I think that is what helps me win game shows. Mm hmm. Oh, that makes so much sense. Embodied presence is the thing that helps you in game shows. Could you could you say one more sentence about that in the reality TV sphere? Like you're able to what be like so able to I don't know. I can't even I don't win. I don't win reality shows. So I am able to hold like

I'm able to hold space for my anger or betrayal or or whatever and also over like override those or not. I wouldn't say let me say that again. I think when I walk into a container like deal or no deal. I call a game show a container because it feels like a bubble. Yeah, like you walk into a container like deal or no deal, I call a game show a container because it feels like a bubble. You just walk into this container, it's an arena. It's like a gladiator kind of arena. You don't know what's going to happen.

You don't know who's going to be there. And for me, that requires like a big expansive openness here in my heart and across my chest where I'm out of my head. If I'm thinking two steps ahead, that's and I'm in a challenge right now that requires my full attention. That's not going to be helpful. So I stay in the moment that's in front of me and I work with the people that are in front of me. And then sometimes in these game shows, you're betraying people, we're lying to people, we're getting lied to,

we're getting lied to, we're getting betrayed, someone's blindsiding our best friends. How can I allow for all of that to happen and also still make a choice that's gonna help me get to the end of the game? And instead of judging or vilifying this person for having done that or being so mad at them

that I have to get revenge and I'm consumed with, now I'm in the past. Yeah. Stuck in whatever happened to me and my story about it. That doesn't help me move forward in a game. That doesn't help me move forward in life. So I do the work to feel the feelings, to release them out of my body, and then come back to a place of what do I want?

How can I make what make this what I want it to be? And I ask for the highest good for everyone in life and in reality TV, if I'm playing a game, I ask for the win. That's what I'm going for. This is so powerful. And like even bringing it back to the book, Nice Girls Don't Win,

how I burned it all down to claim my power. Would you say that embodied presence is your power or what is your power overall? What's your superpower? I'm curious. Yeah, I think it's embodied presence. I think it's the ability to feel my feelings that when I can't,

I could not feel my feelings for so long. And I just, my whole strategy for life was, and I write about this extensively in the book because I think a lot of people do this, but I just dissociated. I was just like, oh, that's painful. I don't wanna feel that. And so I just didn't and I moved forward

and it was very successful for me for a long time until it wasn't. And then I had to look at, oh my God, I've just left myself behind. I've left my body behind. So the work that I've done has brought me into a place of embodied presence. And from that place, I can make choices

that are right for me because I'm being authentically myself. My gosh, this is so, I love how deep this is. I feel like I have to like sit with this this spend time with it. It's so powerful. embodied presence, one of your amazing superpowers, headbands, another amazing superpower. I just wanted to put that out there because in this conversation, if we don't talk about the headbands, I feel like

we're going to get a lot of angry comments from folks. But I mean, there's there's so much else we could talk about here in this conversation and so little time. I mean, I mean, where do we even go from here? Yeah, wow. There's there's so much to say. I also want to say, I think people, you know, if you're getting ready to play a game show, you're like, what do I got to do? I got to study the B.R. rules. I got to listen to some rap as a podcast. Now, you know what you got to do. You got to buy a poverty's book. You got to learn about how to do embodied presence.

And that makes so much sense to me. Like so many people are playing. I think both about people in games playing for, you know, the past in the game of like, I'm pissed at that person and et cetera. I think also people are bringing in how did I want to play this game? How did I want like, what was my expectation going in? And like the things I'm trying to, you know, like, like, I want I wanted to play with this kind of person.

So I need to like make that work. And I think like that's so true in so many life situations. So that makes so much sense to me that like the ultimate harnessing of the power would be able to be like, like, you know, able to be like, I'm here. I see what's actually in front of me. I'm not deluding myself that it's not there. It's there. I mean, what do I do about that now? Like that seems that seems so right and true and smart. I'm a little mind blown over here. That's yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

God, we gotta get I can't wait to read the book. No. I sent you guys some copies. I can't believe you don't have one. Yes, absolutely. And also, like, look, I even have it pulled up the book tour dates. I'm like, I'm in Washington, DC. I will be there at sixth and I on July 10. I will be there. I'm going to bring everyone I know. So excited for that. And then there's like Brooklyn, you mentioned Brooklyn, New York, there's Bloomington, there's LA. So I feel like you might need more book tour dates,

but that's just me. Well, this is just the first week. So I'm sure I'm going to be doing some more in person kind of pop ups.. But yeah, I got a crazy schedule. So we're gonna get this book in as many hands as possible in a short amount of time. There we go. So yes, we want the listener. We always like encourage listeners, get their, the Pride has spoken, buffs, shirts, whatever,

but more, don't get them. Like you could get those, that's great. Get Nice Girls Don't Win. Like pre-order your book now for the sing ports out. Okay, get those. That's great. Get Nice Girls Don't Win. Like preorder your book now. Get both. Get both. Okay, get both. Get both. But for this moment, this minute, Nice Girls Don't Win. Get that.

Like anything else? Harvey, any other myths? Oh, go for it. Yeah, well, I was going to say we always ask our guests towards the end of, you know, do you have any messages for the queer listeners of these podcasts, especially queer people? A lot of queer people listening to these.

And I mean, you've offered already so much like rich advice and things like that. But anything you want, you want to say directly to those people listening? I would say don't be afraid to embarrass yourself. Yes. That you want in your life. Like if you want something, just go for it. Throw yourself into it. Even if you fall in your face and people laugh if you want something, just go for it. Throw yourself into it. Even if you fall on your face and people laugh at you, it's so worth it to do that.

I love that. Such good advice. Such good advice. I say that because my Survivor audition tape is humiliating and I'm so grateful it's never seen the light of day. What are you doing in it? What are you doing? Yeah, please. Absurd. being truly absurd.

Oh gosh. And I've embarrassed myself so many times on national international television. So yes, like it's really in the name of moving, like getting the life that you want, building a bigger life, having something that in your life enriches it, makes you happy. Yeah, you might have to embarrass yourself and look stupid. So I would say just do that. Yeah, I think that's so right. And I just really want to thank you so much for like for being here and for writing the book. Like, I think, you know, we feel like people feel like they know you

because they've watched you on TV so much. But we really have gotten very little of like your real story outside of within the game. So I think this is just like so special and it was like so fantastic that you came here and talked to us. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. And the book is so intimate and personal. I think a lot of people will be very surprised to learn a lot of the things

that are in there because it's not something I've talked about ever. It's so it's so wild to think about the fact that, to Evy's point, people feel like they know you so well through these edited platforms and edited context, where it's like, of course Parvati's on Heroes versus Villains, so we're gonna position her this way, or in this context, or it's a game.

But it's so amazing that, one, you could be on this podcast, but also that you could just share your story in your words. And I'm I'm I'm going to get the audiobook, the book. I'm so excited. Oh, my gosh. Evie, we're going to have to do like a book club or something like that. Oh, my God. Do a book club. Yeah. You guys have to do a book club. We'll do another podcast podcast. Hell yeah. Done. Deal. Signed. Good. Yes. There we go. Awesome. Yeah. And we know you keep your commitments because you got a cat. You got

two kittens for your for your seven year old. I know. I would have not done that. You're amazing. Thank you so much, Parvati. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Everybody get the book. Listen to our book club when we do it. Yeah, this was the best. Thank you so much, Parvati. Thank you, guys. I'll see you later. Happy Pride. Happy Pride. Thank you so much for listening.

My name is Grace Leder. You can find me on social media at hi from Grace or at go from Grace. And I'm Evy Jogoda. You can find me on Instagram at Evy Jag and on TikTok with the account name Evy from Survivor. And I'm Matt Scott. You could find me at Matt Scott GW and all platforms. The Pride has spoken. This is The Pride has spoken. That was pretty good. Yes. Discover the magic of BetMGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack,

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