RHAP: We Know Survivor - TV for Real: Agatha All Along with Frannie Marin

Episode Date: November 9, 2024

In this episode, Sasha welcomes Jason Reed and Survivor 44's Frannie Marin on to talk about Agatha All Along.

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Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. dot org. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to TV for Real, where reality and scripted TV collide. and scripted TV collide. I am Sasha Joseph, and of course, Mike is away. Maybe he was taken by the road, but fear not, okay? Because when the world outside your window is not great, we rely on Jason Reed to come help us talk and take us down the witch's road. Welcome, Jason. We're talking Marvel again.

Sasha, our old intro brings me back the memories. I'm here. We're here to talk Marvel. I was a little nervous after watching Agatha all along when you decided to assemble a group of people together. I didn't know what was going to happen when I got here. I'm glad my soul has been taken. My life force is still with me.

I don't know if it works differently on a stream yard. Are you going to try and take all of our internet data? How does it work digitally? I don't know. But I'm glad to be here talking more with you again. It's like old times. I'm so happy to be here and talking to you. Yes.

And listen, we have to finish our coven. And we have to bring in the most powerful. Okay? So we have to bring in Franny Marin from so we had to bring in franny marin from survivor 44 to come talk agatha all along the people have been wanting this okay they said i need to bring in franny to talk agatha and i said duh covered here we are so welcome franny thank you um yeah if you mean the people wanted this the people people, it's me. I definitely just like yelled at Rob about how much I like Agatha all along, you know, in the hopes of cementing my place in this coven. So I'm so psyched to be here with you, too. Period. Yeah. I was like, get my get get in here.

Because this is like I watch so little TV, like it is really survivor or bust for me. watch so little tv like it's really survivor or bust for me um but yeah like the wandavision agatha like oh that is my second baby and so i'm so so excited to be here talking about it today yes we're so happy and i maybe i make a fake promise to not take any of your powers but we'll see how i feel at the end maybe there's a kiss somewhere there listen okay brady you started talking about this yeah so I'd love to hear from you and Jason you know what yeah what drew you then as a non maybe scripted tv watcher um you know with with this whole Wanda and Agatha what what's drawing you here yeah so um my my Marvel journey in general,

I'll zoom out a little bit, started when it was announced that there was gonna be this, the two-part movie, this Avengers, Infinity War and then Avengers Endgame. And I had not engaged with Marvel really at all before hearing about those movies. I think I had seen Thor Ragnarok,

which everybody saw. I was like, this is funny, but I just didn't get the lore. And I heard that this thing was coming and I love that kind of stuff. I love when there's like a culmination with all these Easter eggs building up to something. I was like, I gotta get involved in that. So I watched like every single Marvel movie

and became like a huge fan in a very short period of time. And then, you know, as everyone did, like died a huge fan in a very short period of time and then you know as everyone did like died a happy death in the theater watching both of those movies um take me back to that time and then uh afterwards Wanda was like my favorite character love the Scarlet Witch like she is such a badass and so WandaVision was the perfect thing to get into to, you know, be like an up-to-date current Marvel fan, especially during COVID. Like that was such a intense lockdown time. That was really a comfort show for me. And so, yeah.

And I loved Catherine Han, loved Agatha. I was like, how could I not watch Agatha all along? I've been like so excited for this. Oh, love that. Love. Yes. And Jason, you know,ason is our resident comic book expert jason and i have um been through some shit uh coverage so you know how are you feeling here

i'm feeling good you know we've you know sasha sasha and i have covered marvel shows we've been through the the highs of loki the lows of-Hulk uh so we've been through it all oh my god I blocked that out thank you like I'm like Lily I blocked it out now I remembered that my part of that my time journey there and I'm why would you bring that up but yeah so you know WandaVision I loved it was never my never my top show, but I really enjoyed it. Agatha, I think, was a great successor. And in a lot of ways, for me, is better than WandaVision. We'll talk about it. We'll get into it.

But yeah, so I'm, you know, I'm happy that we're here talking about this show because it was really a great surprise for me, I would say, because, you know, I was talking, talking i talked to grace back when wolverine and deadpool came out about wolverine and deadpool about how like marvel's biggest villain right now is expectation right so it's like there's so many people are expecting many things and that is the big bad yeah they don't deliver on what we as fans you know stunt cast and want but i think the expectation for agatha was kind of low because it's like okay agatha was a great character two years ago in wandavision no one's been thinking a lot about

it so this kind of snuck up on us and came out and was like oh shit like this is this is good like this is some good stuff i think because expectations weren't super high we could come in not expecting like a whole bunch and be pleasantly surprised with what we got yeah i same for me jason where i was like oh here we go again what you know me mid nonsense are they gonna give me that i'm gonna have to lap up because i'm a marvel girly so here i'm back and then i started watching and to me even from the start of episode one, I said, oh, this just feels different. And maybe, Franny, you're right. Like it's this WandaVision, you know, like a universe that we need to live in because that's where it feels good. Everything else doesn't. And is Marvel just doing magic? Well, is that what it is?

You know, Harry Potter, who? And is that what it is you know harry potter who and is that where i mean people that watch dr strange uh the second dark strange might have some uh words with you but i don't know this magic that is fantastic but uh we're talking about dr strange mom maybe another time but uh we're just gonna act like things don't exist here and that's it okay thank you uh but yeah and and, I also was like, I'm still going to watch it. Cause it feels exciting. I loved WandaVision. Not my number one, obviously Miss Marvel was my number one. And you know, I'm still going to enjoy it, but whatever, let's see.

And then I started watching and then I said, this is going to be amazing and I've watched it twice now. And it still kills me. I am finding new stuff every single time. And storytelling is beautiful. The end, wild. Because I don't understand. What happened, teen? It's not every show that can introduce you to three or four brand new characters.

And you really care about each of these characters by the end of their journey here and just the just you know sasha you said to re-watch it i re-watched it too i don't know about you franny but the re-watchability of this is it begs you to re-watch it at the end of episode uh eight nine so it's like i have to re-watch to see all the little moments that i missed knowing now the truth so in in those ways the series like hits it out of the park with both character emotion and you know it's it's a marvel show but it's not like not until episode eight do we get into the big like lights action like it's like kevin feige stepped into after episode seven he's like okay but where's all of where's all the lights where's all the pew and the boom boom?

Yeah, they're like, fine, we'll give you some in episode eight. Like take it and just be gone. Let us tell our great story. Here's a little light show. But most of it was just this fantastic, these fantastic stories about journey and about emotion and about like

who these characters are at their core and what they're looking for and why. So for those reasons, like it really does, the show really like does a number of things very very well love that and for any do you have any characters that um you just fell in love with yeah i mean obviously i loved lilia i felt like that was her episode was like the strongest one um and exactly what you were just saying jason like incredible that they were able to give us so much buy-in in such a short time to this character like I thought every moment with her was so strong it was so fun process of trying to put together all of her outbursts throughout the show and then have them

like so clearly laid out and like all just slot perfectly together. Oh, it was so satisfying. I loved it. Amazing. Yeah, honestly, I mean, like every character, I also loved Rio. Like I thought Aubrey Plaza did such a good job, especially like, I think the first episode felt really different from the rest of the series. Like it does feel really separate. But thinking back to that one like uh her role and like her relationship with agatha is so interesting there like i i love the way that she's introduced i really really hope that we get to see more of her as death i think that she's like so exciting the moment i was like i just absolutely lost my shit in the moment um it was a second to last episode where she like punches through the. Oh, good.

Whoa. I cannot believe my eyes. I love that. It was so good. And like and like she she's very like she's a little like irreverent or something like even the way she just like skips down the road at the beginning or she like you know i love when we're when the coven is first introduced to rio and she does the thing with her voice where she's like i'm like a green witch the green witch like yeah it it felt like this meta joke where like you know that aubrey plaza is quirky she's not a traditional like marvel casting choice and she just like really made it her own which i loved

yeah you really have to get the casting right to really pull off those those dramatic changes in character uh that that aubrey's able to pull off and you mentioned that that practical stunt where they just they you know stripped down the the scenery in the back was like oh my god that was such a great practical effect and i felt it felt really great that this show was mostly felt mostly practical of course there's some cgi stuff in there but it felt mostly practical where you know sasha you and i talked she hulk which was like all cgi and not a lot of it done well and to see this show pull off what it did with with seemingly mostly practical effects especially with that, with that, that slash in the, in the background. I was like, Oh my God, that was fantastic.

It's such a great use of scenery and such a great use of set design that it really just, it blew me. It blew my mind when I saw it. I was like, Oh my God, that's for real. That happened for real. Yes. Well, and like, it does, it feels really refreshing compared to like, especially, yeah. And I'm thinking like multiverse of madness too, like so much of the like magic and power in Marvel has gotten so CGI that you like it, it, I feel like it loses its impact when every character's power just feels like

they like pew light at someone else. And like, we totally got some of that, but I feel like the, that, you know, like we said, like Kevin Feige just came in and said like okay we need to throw this in like that was so clearly not the strength of the show um and uh it was refreshing like it really felt like something new I also with that really enjoyed their choice to you know have this kind of classic Marvel fight scene in the penultimate episode because I loved WandaVision so much, but I found the last episode of WandaVision like a little disappointing. You know what I mean? Like I, I loved all of the hex and like all of the Easter eggs of the different eras. And I love

going back and forth between like the hex and reality. But at the end, when it's just like, we're flying and we're shooting, you know, light, it felt like it cheapened the rest of the show for me. So I loved that you have that moment, you get the classic Marvel, but then the real end is this emotional journey with with Agatha and her son. Like that was so much more satisfying. Yeah, I I just love this word satisfying because that's what I felt watching the whole thing. You're right that eight and nine, eight felt like the show and the nine felt like the Marvel piece of it. And they were still able to just do such good character building. And why did I care about people that I feel like it was revealed to us pretty like maybe mid-season right that like

only x amount of witches are gonna make it out or whatever and even then I still cared about people I met right like episode one where Kitty Foreman just going down oh yeah you know I shouldn't name okay yeah Sharon Davis I know what her name is but it's just the fact that Miss Sharon Davis or Mrs. Hart aka Kitty Foreman you know goes so quickly and you still wanted her to be there and you still wanted her to come back uh when instead of when Rio shows up to me that just shows the strength of character the strength of storytelling and how satisfying every little trial felt like i i was like make this into the escape rooms immediately and oh well i was worried i was worried that the escape room bit or gag or whatever would get old because i was like okay we're just gonna do escape rooms every every episode but

they managed well yeah yeah i've, I've had PTSD from Marvel. But they were able to keep it fresh and keep it lively every time with kind of really switching things up. And they didn't, you know, I'm glad they didn't do, you know, like seven or eight escape rooms, you know, all in a row. They really broke it up and gave us, you know, they gave us Billy's origin story in between all that. So it wasn't, it didn't feel like there was this like bookend of like okay we have an intro we got a bunch of

fun escape rooms and then our finale so it really was great they broke it up and even when they did the escape room bit it was different every time it was a different uh a different goal to accomplish and it really kind of helped to tell a story about a different each different character like alice's escape room story journey was great because we got to see how kind of her feelings we got to see her resolve some things by the end of it so it was really fantastic especially with uh lilia's episode seven um thing was just like fantastic like i agree with franny but probably the best episode of the show what was that was that one so it was great that we could yes we could use

this mechanism of escape rooms we could yes we could use this mechanism of escape rooms we're also going to use it effectively to tell a story yeah and that was never like it it never felt like that was the point of yeah escape room is like the answer to the whatever they're trying to solve it was like a means to an end of telling a story about the character exactly like you said which is what makes the real impact um yeah i will say though i wish we had seen more of jen i feel like jen got a little bit shafted narrative she's the only one who makes it out alive but like i i loved her and i wanted to see so much more of her story um so i don't know i'm like really optimistic that she can have another like moment or cameo or something down the line in Marvel.

It's tough for me to really pinpoint the standout between a Jen, Alice and Lilia, because they were all this fantastic and they're these brand new characters. And, you know, so she was a maid who had only known from a Saturday night live. She came in here and killed this, like, like murdered it with all of her. Like she was, she was a lot of the comedic relief throughout the show,

which is really fun. But in the way that her, we didn't get enough of her story. Like there was a lot of her story hinted at, we didn't get enough of it. And the fact that she escapes at the end, you know, we, we talked to Marvel a lot and about unfulfilled promises, unfulfilled stories and more what we want to see we can talk about the end journey and where where and if we'll see that um but i just hope somewhere down the line we see jen again i feel like i feel like even coming out of agatha all along one of my criticisms

is that we have so much story that's out there that we didn't get through these nine episodes i hope marvel can you know pick up those stories at some point down the line and fill us in uh because i mean something that i'll highlight here like rio and agatha's love story i don't feel like we got enough of that at all not even barely a taste barely a taste we were so like teased with that i was shocked that they didn't dive into it more and i think that they maybe like weren't i don't know like weren't expecting people to get so excited about it um i don't know what the deal is and and i i understand the value in not showing it because i think the the flip side say they had

really fully dived into jen's story fully dived into agathaatha and Rio. We also still don't know how Agatha got the dark hold. Insane. Excuse me. Like, how is that not resolved? But I think that there's a world where if they actually show all of those things, it is too jam packed. And the story doesn't feel as like concise or pointed. So I do think that it benefited from the kind of like streamlining. But yeah. Oh, please, please. I hope they i hope they follow up listen marvel if you can promise me an agatha all along season two i will take back my criticisms i will if you're gonna promise me they're gonna get these stories solved down the road but me knowing who marvel is what marvel does you know we have so many plot lines that are dangling i don't want any of these

plot lines to dangle i want to see billy and uh agatha's journey to find tommy i need a season two to fully digest i don't want a uh young avengers movie where billy and tommy show up and like hey i found my brother like it doesn't matter how it happened. No, I need to see that journey. I need to see more, you know, Agatha flashbacks of her and Rio's love story and how that came to be. I need more. Like, it's good that a series is wanting more, but I feel like it was almost an incomplete story in some ways. So I'll, I'll give it, I'll give it like,

I'll dig in some points for that. Yeah. And I think that's fair because Marvel does that way too much in this new uh phase whichever one whichever one we're in now uh you know that whole kang thing is dead and i really don't know where they are but they don't know where they are that truly uh and and i feel that they're trying so hard to introduce all these like really interesting, diverse characters starting right all the way back to Shang-Chi. And they just said, OK, now we give it to you and that's it. You know, hell, why is Wong in every damn everything?

And we feel like what's the reason? We still don't know. Conspicuously absent from Agatha all along, where was the Wong cameo? Okay. That's what's incomplete. Yeah, I was watching something, and now I forget,

where they said, now Agatha is the Wong. Oh, that she's going to show up in everything? Yeah, because she's now a ghost. So, you know, much easier to tie that into every story. And I will say, did y'all see this where they said vision, right?

It's going to be the third part of the quest. So now I'm like, what the hell? I don't, don't make me care about another, you know, set of people that you're not going to, you know, fully finish or flesh out. Yeah. Vision story is still needs to be solved from uh wandavision because it's another threat that's been dangling for a couple years now so yeah that is the the you know seemingly fitted fittingly the third part of this series the question is is that where we're going

to see agatha and billy or is this just going to be vision i just need to know where we're going to pick up on these plot lines i need to know that Marvel has a plan because I've been burned by them. I need to know that there's a plan in place. Concept of a plan. That's what we are. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points.

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kind of with episode one because Fanny you you alluded to this where it starts with WandaVision right like basically where we're in a you know a syndicated crime show and you know like your nyp whatever one of them shows and then but you see all your people that you're like oh the best west you people have made it what's going on and then we see agatha being like the world's most copiest cop yeah like she could not be any copier yeah yeah with the stereotypes I was a girl hang it up yeah and it's so funny but then seeing that journey of her and then and then we meet all our people we need to meet where um and then we see teen or billy show up and uh aubrey plaza well we rio uh shows up as well and i said is this gonna be agatha and rio's love story because them hanging out there were vibes they're like okay what's going on here who is this and why is there why are there sparks here

i said okay let's uh let's explore this oh yeah this the first episode did feel like a bridge from wandavision to what agatha would be with the uh with with the show i think it's supposed to be probably like a close to like a mayor of easttown type of vibe like a female cop that is like uh has this like philly accent or something it was it was interesting uh but you know i liked how you know you can tell that the fact that both wanda is dead and that you know it's really affecting because you can imagine that wanda dying would affect the spell that wanda put on uh on agatha as it's like starting to break down and then billy shows up and then seemingly puts the whole kibosh on it by by doing the spell he did on her, which was interesting.

So it was a very the vibes were good on it. I would say it's one of my least favorite episodes. I think I just I one of the aspects I didn't love of WandaVision was all the parodying of the TV shows. So this was it didn't hit for me as I thought it should have hit. I thought for the first time. Yeah, no, that's fair uh for me I think I like a good nostalgia bait so I'm like oh I've seen this before yes okay I I'm with you I'm in it and I think the uh which goes to say about the whole series but just the way they do costumes

to tell a story felt really fascinating because at the uh basically at the end where rio is right like telling her okay like basically trying to bring her out of it and they're in the morgue and when agatha takes off like layers of clothes i don't i feel like you can write a dissertation just on that and how each thing is almost right like her eras um we know now and it's I don't know it's fascinating then we see that Wanda is allegedly dead but do y'all think yeah I I really want to know what y'all think about that the you know the body and then as well the like library card you know checking out the book situation my take on it is that I okay here's my take on it I don't think that Wanda is dead I think that Wanda has managed to somehow like transfer herself to another part of the multiverse or something

or is existing in this ephemeral form almost similar to how we see Tommy existing and then um and then you know Billy is able to get him a body by the end of the series that's kind of what i think um so i think maybe like in a physical sense in this universe she's dead but in a in a broader sense no way i mean listen it's it's comics okay no no one ever no one ever stays dead in comics so yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Any comic ever. Eventually everyone that dies will return. So I think there's no way that Wanda will stay dead

in this universe. I think to get the payoff to this, we have to have a scene somewhere in a movie, in a TV show, with Wanda, Vision, Tommy, and Billy in the same room. I think that's the payoff we have to have and even this show uh throughout this series was playing with us about wanda's you know health

is she dead is she not it's like billy's like it was like so is wanda actually she's like well kind of sort of maybe i don't know who knows yeah so it's like i i think there's no freaking way that uh wanda stays dead we'll see her at some point down the road down the road don't get me started singing the the uh the witch's road let me tell you i've been listening to it on spotify i've been yes i've been humming it my wife's like what are you singing humming i'm like don't worry about it i'm not gonna put the earworm into your ear. Just in case y'all weren't aware, the people that composed the Witch's Ballad,

all the versions we heard, were the same people that did Let It Go for Frozen. It's over. They knew. They know what they're doing. They're earworm specialists. I love the different versions. It was so fun. And like in the first episode too the end credits

it's like oh I literally I mean like yeah listen to all of them on Spotify it's kind of embarrassing because I listened to the like four different versions back to back like I really need to switch to a different song but they feel so different it's like really impressive yeah but but to go back to your original thing I do you Wanda I think is for sure gonna be back in our lives at some point it's it's virtually guaranteed i just don't think marvel has enough people left to to kill off such a big character like the the reason there's a reason they keep pushing back the avengers because they don't know what the hell is going on and you know what i mean it's just we don't have nothing and now the young avengers we obviously

need tommy for it as well like there's no way wiccan and i forgot his speed aren't gonna be right in um the max moff twins aren't gonna be in freaking young avengers but either way it's just we don't have enough scarlet which is coming back back. And also, I think Marvel loves it. We saw this in Loki, right? Likes to do this whole, you know, predestiny, right? Where, oh, this is your path. And like anything you, nothing you do can change the outcome. It might prolong it, death, or not.

But it's going to happen. So I think that's what we're going to get with the Wanda. She was always destined to come back, but live a life a life of you know she has to pay for her sins and that's why she had to live this life well like we're gonna as a comic fan there are 50 11 ways for you to come for you to come back to life you know there's transferring consciousness there's a you know another multiverse there's something or other even if eliz Elizabeth Olsen doesn't want to come back, we'll find a way to bring her back in a new body, okay? Like we'll figure it out.

Scarlet Witch, Wanda will be back in one way or another. But yeah, I think it's impossible that she's dead. Yeah, love that. And now, okay, Agatha has been out of it for a few weeks is what we're told by the neighbor. And she's come back. She's living her life. And the premise is set, right?

She wants her purple back. She needs to figure out how to make this happen. And this teen has shown up in her life who seems to really, like, want to help her and, you know, bring her back and also walk the road and then now the road is introduced which is so exciting to me i don't know why i was so into it but i was and they decide hey we're gonna walk the road i got some time from uh rio what did y'all think of rio's introduction i i was unclear of why Ryo wants to kill Agatha right now. Why are they having beef at the moment? I kind of read it as just like, you know,

little lover's quarrel or something, you know? That's what I read. It's like on the playground, like the person she likes, she's like picking on and bullying like, hey. Yeah, she's pulling her hair. Yes. The one, the person she likes, she's like picking on bullying. Like, Hey, she's pulling her hair. I also feel like functionally there is maybe, and again, like this is another like five threads that were really dropped that we don't understand how they are going to work going forward.

But like maybe functionally something changes when Agatha relinquishes her control of the dark hold. Maybe that in some way relates to Ryo's ability to like seek out Agatha, because it's interesting that they have this like majorly adversarial relationship and it's like not explored in WandaVision in any way or discussed in any way.

Yeah, that's a thought too. That could be part of why Ryo is showing up now. Maybe she senses that Agatha has lost control of the dark hold no longer has her powers is maybe closer to death than she's ever been at any point in her long long life um and she's drawn in by it it's it's alluring to her yeah but then agatha's like hey let me get my power back and then come back and kill me she's like okay see you later yeah sounds good yeah i definitely get the sense throughout the whole series that there are a lot of moments where um rio like she shows

up with an agenda she wants to you know she wants to kill agatha then she wants to you know kill teen because he's an abomination and every time agatha is able to kind of like work her wiles and get rio to act against her better judgment so i feel like that's why it ends up feeling so confusing like why rio's there what she wants because she is really acting against her own work and her own best interest because she's so whipped on agatha like so whipped on agatha i almost wondered like i wish they could have like built in built something in to make it a little more clear i also almost wonder like is rio mad at agatha for all the lives that she took from from death like did did agatha claim the lives of the witches

power she took instead of death was she stealing bodies from death i feel like rio has to be excited about it no yeah yeah I thought she was almost like, don't kill me, here's sacrifices. That almost gives me the years that I need. Yeah, I thought it could have either been like, they could have been working together for her to provide bodies for death, or is death mad?

I just felt like it wasn't clear why Ryo was coming in with a grudge. I feel like it could have been a little better explained instead of us positing theories like just you know just give us the answer when we find the reveal of death oh i screamed i said she's dead i was like oh she's dancing oh my god it's just the like allegories of the, all of that stuff that came out of it. Fascinating. But yeah, I thought it was a lover's quarrel. And I was like, oh, this is a witch.

She did dirty in some way. And you know, so like maybe they're the will, they won't they of, you know, centuries. So that's, that's so how I feel. Like, I feel like, you know, they, they and again sucks that we didn't see it but they had this you know romantic relationship up until the birth of Nikki and then I feel like at that point you know even though Rio takes the time to spare Nikki's life give them some extra time I think that Agatha carries a grudge from that and is pissed and my read of the situation is that from that point she is always keeping rio at at arm's

length and so rio wanting to be close to her and wanting to be in a relationship with her is is like acting out in these crazy ways because she she doesn't know what to do she should be an all-powerful being she's death and she like can't get this witch to make out with her like that's how i feel that's what i feel is happening and so she's just like doing weird shit because she just wants to get in agatha's pants it's like what's the big deal i was just doing my job i could just like i took your son so what i gave you six extra years like why are you so mad yeah you know and even the knife work that they do right where she's like pushing like the knife in just to make her bleed a little but then not and

I was like what kink is this and why are we watching it maybe it should just be private I don't know like what in the 50 shades so I don't yeah they really put us into the universe so quickly that you have no choice but to literally go along on this journey and with that you know we realized yeah agatha's like listen just wait let me just get my powers back which again i was like oh it's gonna be there the like you know gonna be the big bad and that's gonna be the battle we see because marvel always needs a battle but which is what happened but not for the reasons i thought yeah and then we get the introduction of one of the weakest points I feel of the

series, the fricking Salem seven, which ends up just being a bunch of nothing. It's like, okay, that was pointless. So disappointed. I was really excited for that.

And like, especially all of their animal forms. Like I saw online, like all the different casting choices. I like really thought that they were going to do more than that. And it was definitely just like a excuse to use like a creepy costume which i appreciated but um yeah i know i was i was uh i saw people were pointing out on twitter that in lilia's episode where you know she flips the tower and the salem seven die um you don't actually see all seven die.

So after that episode, I was really hoping that like two or three of them would come back and continue to cause problems just so that they like their presence continued in the show. But yeah, sadly, all of them dead. Yeah, because apparently two of them can become animals.

So that fly. That's the key. Two of them are animals that fly. One's a cicada and one's an owl. And like in theory they could just like get out of there so alleged and we only saw five fall uh in the shot at least so who knows i love a good easter egg that goes nowhere and we'll see and yeah so then the salem seven yeah are introduced again fascinating I love that backstory right like what's going on with mom and Agatha's mommy issues right why did mom want to kill her so bad what's nothing makes sense but it's fine we have to hold that because teen and

Agatha are on the way to get a divination witch and then a potions witch and a green witch jokes and i really enjoyed this like a buddy cop comedy type thing that we got here where agatha's changing every time she meets well i guess she changed only for the divination and not the others but she's you know this southern woman then she becomes this like, you know, this like yuppie. Yeah, jade egg enthusiast. She's a con artist. Like that's what she does. She changes her environment.

She has, this is a scam she's working. And, you know, I love nothing more than a good recruitment episode or recruitment saga. Like we've got to go get these people. Let's go the journey of getting all these people and how they and how we get them so i love the different environments we saw with everyone and what they were all doing with the with the gen being the skincare guru uh the gwyneth gwyneth paltrow knockoff i guess yes the goop it gave goop vaguely yeah yeah yeah big goop energy yeah and then we see this kind of disgraced alice which is great and then we see lily all people that are kind of in uh lower portions of their life right and they're looking

for power looking for purpose and i loved how you know agatha was able to play on all that to get them all to convince them all to come to her house to go to to go to the road the other moment with that i really liked is like you're just saying like this is a trope that you see a lot like the recruitment episode and i feel like it can get kind of stale but i loved when um uh teen is you know decorating agatha's house with like welcome coven and he's made because it was almost like a meta non like like we know that this is kind of dumb or like kitschy but like they're all here now and like they showed up and they're gonna have half of a stale granola bar and then we're gonna go on our merry way the little moments like slip into every episode

are done so well and so effectively it's great that they you know there's no big comic set pieces it's just all these little lines that are thrown in that are just this are so just just wow wonderful i love that and i love when they come together it's like this like hoa meeting vibes where i we have no idea what's actually going to happen but it's still i feel like it's tying right this wandavision vibe to what's gonna happen because literally I feel like up until that's the ballad starts we're still in this like cutesy silly fun show and then right all of a sudden that's when we get our first jump scare where the Salem Seven show up and I was scared just like teen because when that um that whatever I said a ghost and apparition that went through the window to get tea and I was like please lord well I didn't sign up for this type of show and but it was okay we were all good

and then the ballad starts right like earworm to the max obsessed and I love that Agatha is trying to piss all of them off and the one time she doesn't piss them off enough to get the powers the door opens I mean yeah we'll find out why later but then it's like and then to rewatch that and realize

a surprise on Agatha's face of like oh shit like this is this is something that could actually happen I didn't know this could be a thing like it was something i made up and then the realization on her face when like uh teen comes down he's like let's not throw let's go she's like oh okay like this is interesting like the fact she just like goes along with it like okay sure let's see where this goes better than getting effed up by the salem seven i guess we'll see where this takes me this uh this kid's uh you know reality we'll see what happens here

the fourth wall break there where she's just looking at the camera like what the actual god so good yeah I remember watching that moment like I thinking to myself um when Agatha is like trying to get them riled up right she's like you know this is you are horrible witches or whatever and um that part it felt so like overplayed or overacted that at the time I was like hmm is this show gonna be like a little too heavy-handed like in that moment I got a little nervous because it was felt so heavy-handed but now it's like oh duh this is a con she's done for hundreds of years like like through this new lens makes exact sense why she was doing it the way she was um yeah so i love when you can like i this whole process of re-watching and like going back everything differently so good and and you know we can

just say it now to the montage of her stealing all of those i said this but you know the like the leo at the tv gif like that that was me where I'm just like pointing she did it she did it's like all the different eras that she's done this in like all the different costume changes just like to tell us how much time is passing is just so wonderful especially like the late 90s early 2000s like emo which dress is like okay yeah definitely i see where we're at yeah it's just again um it probably didn't take that much um of actual episode time but tells us such a powerful good story and this is what we say like give us some backstory for everyone even if it's yeah yeah, like, through just this funny thing. But again, we as the audience getting conned, chef's kiss.

I love a good, like, oh, they got me. They got me here. And, of course, we're now on the road. I even don't know what the hell is going on. And we get to the first trial, which is, like, this this middle age second chance at love is what they called and uh i again this is where they're just we get a lot of i feel like character of values right where a teen is like pushing the story along now we know why because he is the story um he like the storyteller versus you know jen really wants to unbind herself

and trying to you know make this potion like to to save everyone uh kitty foreman don't know what the hell's going on like she's fine she just wanted some wine okay she's not used to this witchy stuff it's like she doesn't know what's going on she's like this is normal i mean listen she's been through the whole wandavision and now she's been dragged down this mystical road by these witches she just needs to get drunk off her ass and just go along with whatever's happening so i you muted yeah um too excited too excited no we put a swim on you is that what it's called um oh uh oh yeah what is that called we we know wait why can't we hear you in here oh no you're there we're good a sigil yes

i mean y'all just wanted to be quiet, you could have just said so. You didn't have to hex my computer and make it mute. Enough men talking. I'm just kidding. Please. That's another thing. I feel like another big strength of the show is like,

again, we've talked about the casting, but I love this whole, this entire show basically is all of these like engaging women and then this like little gay kid i was like yeah what a squad it's such a fun group i feel like it made it so exciting and you can sell a show like this wake up production houses because it works okay and we eat it up if it's good if it's good uh and yeah so anyway we have the first trial right and we we again we see like oh this is how it's about to be and i again really enjoyed it but we have our first casualty and we see agatha selfish ass

this is where i get the really pissed me off i was like she could die it's okay just let her be because she wasn't drinking the wine yeah and she's not doing nothing she's playing everyone she's not a team player i don't want her on my group no no she's a saboteur yeah she'll put her name on it if you all did the work like just put my name on it and just turn in we're all good. But yeah, she's not trying to help Mrs. Hart. She's not trying to drink any of the wine. She's just like, whatever. I love the kind of

the way that it's we're getting to meet the characters now, right? We're getting into what do they all fear? What's part of their background? We see Jen confronting the doctor that put the bind on her. Like, okay, that's interesting. We're seeing Alice confront her mother.ice confront her mother it's like oh okay cool so we're getting a little more backstory into who our characters are and what they fear and what some of their back

their backstory is i thought it was a great way to give us that information in a little time and then getting getting the different ingredients of the potions was fun so that was really fun especially with the uh was it like petroleum or whatever that i had to get from uh from jen it's like we got some of this jen is that okay she's like yeah fine put it in like it's like i thought you're all organic it wasn't a artificial artificial stuff in your in your products but that was all just kind of fun and just see to have jen uh be like integral to solving this quote unquote escape room was a great way for her to shine in that moment.

I also loved, this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, but I loved that for all of them, they had to utilize a like witchcraft skill that was not just light powered magic. And I liked that moment for Jen as well well like for her realizing that she still has access to so much power even though she's bound um like I thought that that was a that was a good little um initial seed for that character um and to then finally have her unbind at the end was really um exciting as well but it's almost

like she didn't need it she she you know creates this potion that saves them all she also heals um billy which we'll get to when he becomes injured in the next trial um yeah she she was like she was so powerful all along you don't even need the cgi to get things done and it's and on this road yeah yeah okay it just and I feel like we could spend hours talking about just each trial because of how well it's done and how much space they do give especially in the first one to each character because Jen we right here her talk oh and they're at the campfire um about how she went to the um the OB basically and she thought it was a thing and we know for you know if you know history Black women um that's how genealogy uh not yeah gynecology sorry has happened um is by tests on Black women without anesthesia so i was like are they gonna wow you know if they go there but

they but they don't we just realized agatha um unfortunately is the one that's combined uh that did put the spell on her but it's really interesting i thought i thought the agatha abiding her was interesting i almost i was almost reading into that I was like did Agatha really bind her or is this Agatha being like selfless and convincing Jen yes I bound you so do this ceremony on me to unbind yourself because it's kind of like you had the power all along to unbind

yourself you just had to figure it out because that's a little bit too coincidental that Agatha and Jen were in the same spot and Agatha I guess I you know put uh was paid to put a spell on jen or whatever just seems a little too coincidental i wondered because i mean this got in that because this happens in like episode eight where like you know agatha has quote learned lessons and is a little more selfless now and to try and help jen with her journey is like yeah i

know that bounded you so do your little ceremony on me and get your magic back because they mentioned in one of the trials or whatever where jen's doing something she's like huh maybe he didn't really like kind of bind me is what i thought like maybe i had it in me all along so i thought maybe maybe i'm reading too much into it again writing the story that that isn't that isn't there to be like maybe agatha was just like yeah you're fine i i bound you do your little unbinding so you get your power back i just wondered if that was if anyone else read into that like i did um i love that i love that wow yeah because like well what i was just talking about like she does she makes such an immense uh impact on the earlier trials like she's she's doing so much even though she's bound i really

like that idea that it's kind of like a psychological thing like she's decided that she um can't actually do magic, but she really can. And if there's one thing that Agatha knows how to do, it is how to masterfully manipulate people. So I think that makes total sense that Agatha, you know, in her heart, she is becoming a better person. She does want to help these other witches in their journey. So she's trying to help Jen, but if Agatha is going to do one thing, it's going to sit in that villain niche. Like I actually think that she as a character

is uncomfortable with people seeing her as something other than a villain. I think that she has like villainized herself for so long, thinking about the guilt of all the witches that she's killed and thinking about what Nikki would say if he knew that she was doing that. So I think that like, you can see her discomfort in moments where the other witches are starting to like,

like her or connect with her. Um, there's that moment around the fire where she's talking about like the, like ladies of Liberty or something. Um, and kind of like laughing with the other witches. I feel like you can sense her discomfort. She's not used to being in a coven and being respected. So I love that idea that she is like actually helping Jen, but she's not used to being in a coven and being respected so i love that idea that she is like actually helping jen but she's doing it in a way that you know still allows jen to hate her she's doing it she's doing it through being a villain which is it was just her way and you know you mentioned that fran i i love how they kind of toe the line from hero to anti-hero like they never let her go too far into the light like you never let her get too heroic

it's always either something that she is at least at the end of it says well i did that for me like i i didn't do that for you i did that for me because like when she mentioned sacrificing herself for billy at the end she's like i just did that to get out of the thing i didn't do that for you that was that was that was my thing but you but you know she kind of sacrificed herself for billy because he reminds her so much of nikki uh but yeah i love how they did. They never made her too heroic. They always kept her squarely in the anti-hero kind of mold, leaning more into villain than hero.

So I like how they told the line. You could have easily, by the end of this, been like, oh, Agatha's a hero now. But like, no, I still think that she will stab you in the back if it comes to that. And she wants to. And she does in the back if it, if it comes to that. She wants to. She does. And she does want to, she's excited about it. Here's okay. My mind went in two different directions,

two different things I want to talk about, but one of them is I feel like there's actually, when I think about all the witches we know, like, you know, I'm thinking about Wanda, I'm thinking about, you know, Alice Jen and Lilia. And then I'm thinking about Agatha. It feels like for all of them, a lot of their their expressions of magic that we've seen in the Marvel universe have been fueled in some way by she, you know, after Pietro dies, um, and, uh, is attacking Thanos, um, after Vision has died, like all of those moments where she's most powerful or fueled by grief. I feel like Agatha's, you know, centuries long, um, witch killing is also fueled by grief.

She doesn't know what to do after Nikki is gone. And so all that she can think to do is to continue down this road that they were on together and, uh, you know, sequester herself into this little box of being the villain. And then same with, um, with like Lilia, she's, she's driven by this like confusion and grief from losing her, um, her maestra, not understanding why not understanding like the course of her life and then jen grief over losing her power and feeling bound and then alice grief over losing like her mother and knowing about this generational curse and being in denial of it um yeah i mean it's interesting they all have this it's kind of a shame that mike isn't here to draw the parallel

to lost of like you know you know when these people resolve their story that's when they that's when they leave the uh island or the road as it were because that's what happens right you know alice comes to terms with her mother's curse she you know removes the curse and shortly after that she's gone lilia comes to terms with you know watching her coven die and finding this new coven where she's like you know because she talks to her to her teacher and just like yeah i don't have a coven because like what's the point they're all just going to die anyway like and she's like no like the the teacher kind of makes her realize no you need to have a coven you need to have people and then she's like yeah i have my

people and now i'm ready to sacrifice myself for them it's like when she comes to her so that she gone and then you know jen gets her power back she's gone off the road she's gone yeah so that was a great way to use to use those things to make that quote-unquote journey down the road um to to find what they needed so they can they can move on with their lives no matter whether it be in the afterlife or in in real life i i feel the most sad for alice uh because you know alice alice dies and i thought for a while it was just like i thought for a while i was like are we never just gonna see alice again but then we got that little moment of just like when alice is dead and rio comes to get her and she's like basically like yeah this is bullshit like i just i just got this curse lifted now i'm dead and rio

who you know she is deaf but she also kind of has like a heart it's a black heart but she has a heart where she's like well you're a protection witch you die protecting someone so you did your job and it kind of helps alice to come to terms with going to the afterlife so this just just this emotion this emotional journey that our witches were on and for them to resolve their feelings, I thought was really great way to tell the story. OK, you know what? You brought something up for me now. Do you think that death gives them the answers of what's going on? Right. Like death helped Alice say, hey, you're a protection witch. You know, like you died doing the heroic thing blah blah blah but does Alice ever get to learn that this was actually in you know teen or Billy Maximo's

mind and this is why you died you know because that'd be like return to sender there's no way this like little teenager killed me for no reason I'd be coming back to haunt teen that's what i'd be doing yeah he's gonna have a heaven full of ghosts true i feel like i feel like rio's job um and we see this i think both with nikki and with alice like her job as death is to say or do whatever she needs to to ease that person's passage yeah into the afterlife right because she she says in one of the episodes she hates ghosts like she she doesn't want the world to be populated with all these people who have unfinished business who won't leave. So I do not think she tells Alice that it was all in teen's head. Right. I think she's going to say whatever will make Alice feel most proud of herself and like with the situations that she can move on but that's my take on it

yeah i can see that for sure no i like that and i think and alice gets to meet her mom hopefully so yeah hopefully it's you know eases everything i'll tell her that she broke the curse yes that's big deal this is okay this is another question that popped up for me earlier that i'm really curious what your your takes are on this um so when alice dies when agatha kills her by sucking up all her powers um afterwards you know they all turn on agatha and agatha is really saying like i didn't mean to do that what do you guys think do you think that she actually to a degree cannot control it or is that her play acting and and trying to be the victim or something i was i really wasn't sure because that

question came up for me too because you can see as she's like taking alice's power she has this kind of face it's like oh my god like i want to stop but i can't i was wondering it was just like this is my first taste of power like i can't help myself like once once you pop you can't stop like like you have to suck all the power and she just can't help herself i just also wondered if it was like her mother was what had some part in this like was still inhabiting her and making her do this so i'm not it's very unclear uh but the her facial tics were kind of like she didn't want to be doing this but she for some reason had to she even kind of says that after they're done like i didn't want to kill her like it just kind of kind of happened like i do just wonder if it's like

this is my first time doing this in a while like it feels too good i want to stop but i can't i am i go back to your original point jason where you can't have our anti-hero step too close to the light so if she would have blocked it here would the blocking you know what hers um blocking billy's later on wouldn't have felt meaningful because you're like ah agatha already did it we know what if she did it for you know alice she's definitely gonna do it for you know billy that makes a lot of sense hashtag boy mom so you know that she's gonna do it for such a boy mom extreme boy my girl but but so i think unfortunately for that also it doesn't matter and she's just not good yet good as in she's not ready to see herself in the light yet and her and and your mom is taunting you like that have you ever been a teenage girl with a mom uh-uh you're gonna do the

not nice thing yeah yeah it makes you want to be naughty yeah definitely her coping mechanism is to just dig herself deeper into the hole yeah yeah so I I just feel like it wasn't her journey you know it wasn't her time on the journey to be good yet and poor Alice we lose her to that uh and again we these easter eggs that they've cut into the story right where Lillian says it before way early don't you know don't give Agatha your power like don't don't help her and these like random cuts that all come together just what smart writing like shout out to whoever came up with that idea and uh did y'all like trial number two the the like 70s whatever studio um i thought it was like no i thought i thought it was fun i thought the set pieces were great with a curse

taking on that the embodiment of like this demon fair okay i like that part of it it was it was fun i would say it wasn't my favorite and you know the the the ballad earworm really just kind of hits you in that episode i loved i loved how fun it was with all the all the different things while doing the performance with rio just kind of lazily hitting the drums you got lilia with the different instruments yeah that was so funny there was a lot of fun moments in there it wasn't it wasn't our most kind of like consequential trial right i mean of course it helped alice come to terms with with her story with her mom and the curse and everything but it wasn't the most consequential it was like it was good for a mid-range trial it

was good to stick in the middle there i would say yeah yeah that was definitely the point where i was like we got to change up the structure pretty soon so they were doing then then switching it up after that i think that was a good like uh pacing choice for sure yeah agree and and of course teen right after this is unconscious and then we get i think this is when it happens right where rio says or around one of these it doesn't matter uh where rio says that's not your son yeah i said well damn because i definitely thought it was well i mean listen i think a lot of i think a lot of people were speculating coming into this that teen was wicked like i i felt a lot of people going into one like oh yeah okay that's gonna be billy we all know it. We all get it.

But they really tried to throw us off. They were just like, oh, it could be Nikki. It could be Nikki. It worked on me. I thought it was Nikki for sure. I think I'm too dug into the fan theories and all that stuff because I came in kind of expecting him to be Wiccan.

And the red herrings they're trying to throw at us did have me doubting for a minute but it was like okay no he is billy he is he is all this um but yeah and that scene where like rio and agatha are like very tender with each other and you know rio's just like you know that's not your kid right and agatha's like and then just kind of walks off like oh more like more sparks i love that uh so that was just such an intense scene and you know to realize where agatha's motivations are because yeah it's not my son but he just kind of like he says actually she's in boy mom mode she

has to protect this young boy because she lost a young boy uh was a really was really effective in the way that this i do with with with agatha for the first time that we've seen really caring about someone really caring for someone where she's kind of uh there with the wounded billy and she's really concerned with his health at the moment yeah and all the witches i think lower their guard down unfortunately for them here right seeing her be boy mom hashtag boy mom so I again it works really well for the story and I I wanted to also bring up the rumor tool because now Salem 7 have made it you know into now we know Billy's imagination uh but they're here you know we gotta run and then they take these um silly stereotypes of witches and turn it on its head where they're like well damn we gotta write the

brooms but the ritual of them giving it to each other and you know and making the broom beautiful and then flying over the moon like just so good we're taking something again stereotypical but making it meaningful what a great way to do it and even teen was in on it apparently yeah I love that moment I loved it it's also like and this is the thing that I liked about it is I feel like um there are all these moments across the show where it's really showing like, first of all, anyone can be a witch. Like even at the very beginning when Agatha is saying like, you know, what is it like within a mile radius, there's like three people witchy enough to form a coven or something. Anyone can be a witch. And also the part of being a witch is the community is the like sisterhood regardless of your gender um and

and yeah I feel like that was really reflected in the brooms like you have to share it with somebody to be able to do it like and all these witches are very much covenless but like that is part of what like saps their power saps their like potency in the world and then once they're together they become like really powerful and actually able to do stuff yeah just and I think the burning right like the burning of the witches at the stake that happens um in the previous trial the like 70 at the music studio again it's just they're bringing it in but in a way to almost like be like no that's not what actual you know witchcraft is so I really enjoyed it um and you know they become et and of course we get the 90s trial which we've already talked about but I just that was my favorite one so I just wanted

obsessed with everything you know they said stranger things who and I'm just kidding it was really nice and and I enjoyed all the actual layers we learned here and we we get nicholas scratch who she apparently made from scratch which i have so many questions about yeah again that's that's the other that's another question the parentage of nikki like you know she mentioned that she did this with no spell and only cantation she made him from scratch so it's like does that mean it's like you're virgin marrying this or like yeah immaculate conception yeah there's there's been other theories about who nicholas scratch's father is like is he a father of satan or the son of satan i mean or who like again that's another story that the storyline is like okay who is nicky's father

that's another question we need answered um so yeah i think that's that's something for down the road hopefully on the road of course i'm saying that at some point yeah yeah uh so i think that's another question needs to be answered which left me like kind of i was like okay i need more answers who's nicholas's dad we don't know yeah mari show up immediately okay we need it but yeah again i loved it and uh now we know that teen has powers by the end of the 90s uh cabin child so yeah i mean it's it's kind of his emotion over losing alice that really kind of sets this off grief again grief again yeah you will die grief all these ways and this causes him to like lash out and this is like barry jen and lilia and then it's it's so as a as a father of a teenager it's like that's that's perfect teenage emotion right they lash out and then later it's like i'm so sorry i didn't mean to do that like i should i shouldn't have buried you in under the road it's like

those teenage hormones whether you're which or not they'll kick in to do that like i should i should have buried you in under the road it's like those those stage hormones whether you're witch or not they'll kick in yeah it's uh for any of this show that jason and i covered uh what the power was the same thing where it was all the girls have superpowers to kind of like you know counteract this um patriarchal world where they showed that like girls can now run at night and be safe because they you know can literally burn um men if they try to attack them and with like electrocute them basically anyway but that's what it reminded me of because in the power it's like it's almost a symbolism for like you're getting your period it's like oh I have the power now um and

only certain women can get it but anyway it was fascinating but trans women also got it so really interesting show and and then we launched into teens life and when I tell y'all I could not from the opening moment right my notes, Tina's Jewish in all caps. Because it's just like, it's like reading the Torah and they're doing the whole, it's like bar mitzvah, but not like, it's just,

they didn't have to, right? Like have the exact prayer that you say, right? Before you start reading the Torah. And I'm like, I'm like saying it back. I'm not out of bar mitzvah. Like, why And I'm like saying it back. I'm not out of words. Like, why do I need to say it back?

But it's just, it felt so cool. And, you know, it didn't have any, like, POC Jews, but it's fine, I guess. Just, you know, very basic. And then we learned his name is William, which I'm sure for the comic book people were like, that's okay, got it, that's okay. Got it. Sure. And then of course, at just like any bar mitzvah,

there's a palm reader. Is that a major thing, Sasha? I feel like I've definitely been to a good amount where they are. Yes. That's good to know. Cause I, okay. I've never, I've never been to a bar mitzvah. So I was like, I was like, they were just looking for a way to put Lilia in are yes that's good to know because i okay i've never i've never been to a bar mitzvah so i was like i was like they were just looking for a way to put lilia in but that's

like that's that's helpful to know i mean and again like not all of them and i don't know that they were at boys bar mitzvahs i'll say that but i think you know you got to make something happen and i guess it's a queer boy so maybe that's how we're gender bending it a little bit yeah i've definitely been where they do like a carnival theme type thing, and then they have all these booths. They have the henna booth. I've even seen henna booths. All that kind of stuff.

So I thought that was really funny. But then, yes. I thought all the Billy origin stuff was really fun. The fact that he had seen all the other witches before, which informs us later of maybe why these other witches that were formed of the coven was very interesting.

To see Lilia encounter him and have that recognition enough to be able to put the sigil on him. And as we find out later during the Lily episode, she's like, yeah, I saw who you're going to be. So I want to give you enough time to kind of be who you are so that you like were protected from other witches was like perfect egg because you know the show was filled with things that happened and you're just like okay i don't know why that happened then later we find out it's like oh that makes so much sense of why she put the sigil in his pocket uh so i thought it was a great one i thought the story of you know how how billy enters william was really great all the after effects of that where

he like can't remember he seemingly kind of he seemed to kind of like a baby a baby consciousness right because he can't remember his he can't remember william's life he also can't really remember billy's life as we see which one of the one of the funniest scenes is when we go find ralph boner again oh my god what the hell yeah he kind of crazy yeah he kind of breaks it down for for billy who wanda vision and the kids are and for having kind of realized oh shit me i might be billy And to kind of figure out where he needs to go from there, I thought was a really great. It was a really great way to kind of retroactively introduce the character and how he got to be who he is now. Yeah, I also loved that at the start of that episode, you know, it is such an extreme tonal shift from like at the end of the previous episode. We see this kid with this explosive power and um just

this like really intense moment and then boom we're at the bar mitzvah like Billy Eilish Billy Eilish screaming in the crown oh so good jaw on the floor for that I love it but um yeah I love that when they start this episode um and it kind of I mean it reminds me of the structure of Wanda Vision of course too where you have that episode where you go back to the real world they really let you sit in it for a while before it ties back into the original show so i love that um feeling for the first five minutes of kind of sitting with bated breath like okay we're at this environment so like what's happening and then you see lilia and you're like boom we're so back like this is this is what's happening i thought that was really well done and then the other thing kind of like comparing this to wandavision um again i loved wandavision i thought

it was really well done but i think the uh sort of reveal episode or the reveal moment really happened in the middle of the season where you realize okay there's a world outside the hex it's it's wanda doing this and there are you know sword is outside trying to trying to get in or trying to get to her and that reveal happening in the middle of the season somewhat deflated the rest of it for me because it feels like you kind of know everything you need to know but what felt very different about this show is i thought okay this is our big reveal moment we're're seeing this background of like Billy William. And then now we know everything we need to know for the rest of the show.

Not the case. There's like four more kind of surprising reveals. So I liked that they give you this big moment so that there's a change in the structure and you finally have more context that you didn't have before. But it's also not the end. Like that's not, it's not straightforward from here on out the road is gonna twist and turn like several more times before the

show's done yeah yeah and again this is where my um marvel trauma kicks in right where you're like oh they did it so well but they did it so early now a bummer bummer you know it's gonna go downhill nope not yet and for me when they show uh you know a teen's kid uh the parents sorry when they show his parents I was like so so what's the reveal here that that's not you know you're not his mom or that's not your son I was like well who's the mom you know I to me it was in my brain that his parents are going to be important so and then to see these like just two you know nice Jewish family I was like what's not clicking here for me and then you know you realize what actually happens and um he had died blah blah blah right wear your seatbelts everyone please and it just it's

terrible tragedy but you know at least billy uh is able to show up here and now we're gonna look for tommy and we know that's his you know forever journey and now we go to the castle trial the wizard of oz maleficent right uh who else oh snow white's evil witch they've all shown up i love that good and you know they they so many times throughout the series they were just like all the witches were bristling at the stereotypical witch stuff and then to get to this episode where they're all dressed as famous witches they're like oh my god for real like this is crazy uh but and you know so many shows do these time time jump uh gimmicks gags uh sasha you and i covered loki season two which was like chock full of that and yeah that was a show that did it very well and i feel like this show as well also really just kind of laid it out for you in a

really clear concise way kind of laid the tracks out for you of what we had seen before. So it all really kind of made sense. So bravo to the show for being able to do time loop, time travel things in a, in a clear way. And it like, did you, cause again,

we're, we're in the Marvel. So we're maybe able to follow this stuff, but I love to know from y'all and let me know in the chat too you know was it easy to follow because for me it was I was like okay I understand now what's going on I understand who the future uh Lilia is you know versus past where it's it's it all made sense to me so quickly yeah I feel like it became easy to follow once you understood that Lilia's consciousness is taking the exact same path that you are through the episode um like I think that's what made it

easy to understand I think if it had been jumping through time more as like a storytelling device rather than like this is literally what this character is experiencing it would have been more confusing but um yeah I think, I think it worked so well. And this is one of my, like, I love this style of like time travel or whatever, where like things that Lilia learns from the future impact, then the future later,

like the reason that she shows up to the castle and says to Tine, like, we're good is because she had a moment earlier where she wasn't good but they're like but you said you were good like i love those um i love the like future impacting the past and i love that lilia's confusion tracks us in our confusion and we're like yes and as lilia learns we learn about okay i've been jumping through time i've been jumping through various moments and you know i i kind of clocked in an episode like two or three like she's probably there's probably some time some essence of time travel here that's going on when

she's doing these these outbursts of like she's just saying these things okay it's probably this is all going to come together at some point and then just to see it to see it it all laid out here and to like i said as lilia learns we learn it's something that really was helpful for us to keep track of the of of how this happened 100 it's just again i just appreciate when they don't dumb things down they just make it easily accessible and that's what i love from a tv show I love that from life whatever so that thank you thank you and even the tarot right I feel like a lot of folks if you're not into tarot or astrology you're gonna like cuckoo it or see it as like a silly plot device but here they were

able to use that uh and and there are a lot of meanings to each card like folks should look that up because again great like, like Easter egg, like Franny was saying, you know, like a storytelling that we don't need to know the answer, but when you know like, Oh, why the swords or why this was happening? It just adds like a really fun layer to the whole show. Yeah. So the thing with the tarot, that's so fun. Like you were saying, I think if you're watching and you never do tarot and you don't care about it,

like it was still engaging, but like Matt and I love doing tarot. We like pull cards every single day. And so we were like, our brains were exploding because we were like, and even, you know, obviously the cards that Lilia pulls in the, in the real reading that then allows them to move on to the next trial are explained pretty well. But even like the cards that teen is pulling or that agatha is pulling matt and i were like pausing to see

what they were and like oh i love this it's just like so rich for interpretation it's so much fun well and i love how they kind of they kind of show their perspective of people like me who aren't big tarot people like i don't know what this means where you know we have we have teen who kind of thinks he knows what it means he's like i think it's this and then we have yeah yeah he's just like f it like this this means this this means that i don't care i don't care whatever and as we see the swords come down and then we see lilia who is the real pro and kind of number one realize yeah she's queen of cups number one realizes she's a traveler and she has to kind of read the deck for herself and as she's putting down the card she's you know really great at explaining in a short concise way what the cards mean and what their meaning is to

each individual person i loved that she kind of gives each person like their flowers in a way totally where she caught I forgot what Jen's thing was but she's like high priestess yeah she's a high priestess right and we see we see a little profile shots of everyone doing their thing and I just love how she was able to kind of because this is this is almost kind of sort of last trial this is kind of the summation of trials and we're just like this is what this is what all these characters mean to everyone in this journey I thought it was a great way to sum up yes uh this kind of thing and for the the great sacrifice at the end now i've seen people say that what we see with lilia at the end

where she's her younger self is almost kind of like a lilia living in this kind of circular time like she didn't really die she sent her conscious back to her younger self and she just kind of lives her life in this main loop uh what did you what did you guys think of that kind of theory about do you think that's a good way to kind of sum up lia's story here that's how i feel about it um i feel like she yeah is gonna like continue to live her life in this infinite way all all out of order. But, you know, I think that this moment of like understanding why this is happening, like why, you know, it's, it's all out of order is what allows her to like, enjoy that life that,

that she's living instead of experiencing it in a way that's like stressful or trying to hide from it. But yeah, I definitely think that she just like went back to the beginning and maybe just starts the whole thing over again. You know, like I love that ending of like sitting down and like, okay, let's start a lesson. You know, everything that she's learned now she gets to learn a whole new host of lessons with the knowledge that she has. I think it's really sweet. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. has I think it's really sweet yeah yeah I agree and I think I'm in the middle a little bit where I think that the you know Marvel does this really interesting right I talked about time travel so I think we need to decide one which time travel theory right like Marvel is using for

Lillia specifically because if it's the like oh everyone you know has the same or sorry your journey can't be altered time travel thing then you're right that I think she goes to back to her younger self with more clarity and and maybe she's not going to be in a loop but maybe the end doesn't change for her and she's still able to sacrifice but it's a little bit less stressful for her you know uh and she's able to maybe be better version of herself or yeah is it that like the maestro is gonna you know figure this out for her uh so i don't i don't know it's kind of the chicken and the egg principle of time travel like what what came first and she already has knowledge that she has to live a whole life first to get the knowledge like

which is it uh so i think it's a great way to end her story and end her journey uh you know as opposed to alice who i thought was kind of short-shifted in her uh death and her ex i thought lilia got this in one episode got this really great journey and it was one of the shorter episodes too so i was like this in this one short concise episode we were able to focus on lilia tell her whole story and give her a fantastic ending uh which is why i think you know episode seven is one of the best episodes of the series oh very not even close yeah did you did you all see i i assume maybe you did because it seems like you're you know you're you're online about all this stuff but did you see the interview that um the swords were a practical effect as well

they literally i didn't know that. They had swords hanging from the ceiling by piano wire and they had to carefully stage the scene and the swords literally dropped from the ceiling and went into the floor and the actors were in the scene with them. Not every show. The ones that, yeah, okay, right. Well, the ones that fell on their chairs

were like Joe Locke and Patti LuPone had to like jump out. Those were CGI. But the other ones that fell on their chairs were like joe lock and patty lefone had to like jump out those were cgi but the other ones that are more like in the foreground those were those are practical effect like how the hell did insurance the insurance sign off on that did the baldwin gun not teach us any we don't do this yeah i thought maybe it was practical it would have been the thing where like they come out from the bottom and you kind of like you're saying they're like they literally came from the ceiling like stuck down like that's that's insane that's that's crazy no thank you oh my gosh oh again i i love it it just feels like this team is so different because the back end and production people have done a lot of really cool interviews

about why they chose Watch Storylines. I would recommend folks read that stuff too. It seems like a really storytelling full of passion and love for the actual content. And there's like, speaking of behind the scenes stuff and to read about the relationship between patty lapone and aubrey plaza yeah oh my god have you did you have you guys seen their hot ones yeah oh my god yes so funny so funny so to see that kind of bond through the show kind of makes you feel like that maybe there was a bond behind the scenes as well for all these women to kind of really uh women and and joe lock to kind of form this this coven if you will maybe it wasn't just on the screen but behind the scenes as well so i

thought i think it was really a really good like show to see where it's not just on the screen it's behind the scenes as well yeah i think to that the other like behind the scenes thing that i would definitely recommend people check out if you haven't is um marvel released a clip of um them seeing the practical set of the road for the first time and it's so cute watching them walk around and be like i've never seen anything like this like this is going to be so fun to act in and they're all like literally just like walking down the road but chit-chatting and they're like holding their scripts and coffee like it seems like such a fun vibe it really added to the experience for me watching that yeah it's just I love all this kind of yeah like I love watching interviews and you know all this

extra oh it's so good and I watch like every easter egg breakdown of the oh yeah um of the episodes but here we are can't can't can't be like a seven hour podcast unfortunately but it would be if we just ever imagine even if just we talked about each episode in depth uh and then you know all the trials seem to be done until they're not because we're in the morgue and we again talked about um the unbinding but yeah this this felt very much like a yada yada moment where oh we need to like finish Jen's uh storyline and she has to be free for whatever reason so that's nice but outside of that I was like this could have been an email that this particular trial and um of course the witch's road is a circle right we get all everywhere hit

all over the face with uh with symbolism of everything where we oh with the witch's road is a circle so we start where we ended like in agatha's basement it's now everything's sterile blah blah blah and we learned that agatha of course is protecting billy from rio uh until just like uh i feel like uh dumbledore raised harry uh to die at the end this was like oh you have to sacrifice yourself uh to rio and that's the only way that, you know, Agatha gets to live. So then we get our final pew pew battle, which was like interesting and not at the same time, which I don't I don't know how I feel. It was good that it was short and sweet, right? It was only a few minutes. We had the whole thing where we blast uh billy into the greenhouse

and it's like oh my gosh what's gonna happen and then it really kind of ends in this sweet moment where basically rio comes out like all right enough of this like one of y'all had to come with me and that's like you know like this is how it's gonna be stop the battle yeah you're not gonna beat me so one of y'all just gotta come with me like come on yeah our cgi budget is up we can't do this anymore we can't do another pew pew we've run out of money uh so what are you asking with me and then of course you know billy's like i'll do the hero thing take me and that goes like you got it take him like we're good we're good to go it's like whoa you weren't supposed to say that so yeah when i tell y'all i screamed i

said oh oh yes yeah because you just i miss like selfish characters like i think they're so funny and in reality i just met this kid last night she called him pet for the longest time that ain't someone real to her i just love it like. He's like, yeah, take me. She's like, yeah, take him. He's like, wait a minute. No, you're supposed to say, no, take me. Like, that's how this is supposed to go. He's like, you're the adult. Exactly. And then he

lays a telepathic guilt trip on her of like, yo, you really gonna do this? Like, is this what you did to Nikki? And it's like, oh, that's the trigger. And for, you know, whatever sense that agatha gets now she's like all right fine let's do this thing let's get let's get the kiss of death going and you know i will say yeah oh go ahead go ahead no i'm sorry you go i was just gonna say i will say that moment like it's um it it's good from like a character growth perspective like sasha you were were saying earlier, like, you know,

she doesn't stop sucking Alice's power. So it's more powerful when she stops sucking Billy's. And then like, you know, you see her character growth, you see that she's actually willing to be good. But Matt and I were discussing this and we were like, if not for like Marvel as a whole, like they, you know, they obviously need to set up this next storyline of wiccan and finding tommy and stuff if not for that it would have been like a perfect capsule of

a show if agatha had actually just given up given up billy and just like and walked away and like gone on to other hijinks i feel like that would have been really really fun and like really would have fit the agatha all along title that we eventually yeah unfortunately we have to find some sort of redemption oh my god like yeah exactly without that villains come on yeah without that would have been the perfect villain story right like we get these quote-unquote villain movies all the time they aren't really villain movies like i think of like a venom or uh these other villain stories that they end up being just kind of anti-heroes and agatha kind of follows along that same route um although she does show many selfish ways throughout the journey she does end making the ultimate sacrifice uh which is you know for her is not really that much of a sacrifice because she technically is still

around yeah she just goes she's got a new outfit and dyed her hair that's really all that has changed she can even grab shit if she really you know concentrates like oh my god her becoming the like mr miyagi at the end is so funny yeah That really fits her comic book character, which, you know, if we're thinking about, you know, I, I, I think, I guess I'm probably the one that can speak to this. The, the close to close to comic book, you know, scale was not, was not high. Like there's a lot of things that are different from comic books and

these different storytellings, which is kind of like the MCUs thing. Like we're going to kind of do the comic book thing but not really oh okay um so i mean but agatha harkness is kind of like a guide or mentor in the comic book stories mostly of the scarlet witch actually she does a lot of mentoring to her but she's kind of a mentor to the mystical arts wielders in the comic universe so for her to end up in this uh capacity for billy does kind of fit her character in the comics here's the thing i will say though if all we see of katherine han in the future of the mcu is with this like stupid ghosty overlay i'm gonna be so pissed because she's such a good actress i just let her let her act in full Like, I don't want to see her translucent on my screen, you know, any way that she continues

in the world I'm excited about, but I just, I really hope we get, you know, I hope we get her, her body back, please. A little bit. So it's something, a flashback, right? Oh my gosh. It's just, um, yeah, I, I loved it. And of course the reveal, right. um yeah i i loved it and of course the reveal right of that is billy's all along and his mind and and all of just so good i don't know it's just their reveals they did

beautifully yeah i mean because i'm too much online in this world i you know i had heard people theorize that this was the thing but then for it to actually come to realization in this way and the way they revealed it and the way that they went back and showed us so like you should have figured this out a long time ago dummy like it was it was a really it was a really great way it was a really great way to reveal it almost like the people calling it the kind of kaiser so saying of totally realizing that he was realizing for us the audience realizing he was it was billy all along it was really that's really what this show is the drama i am i was a great reveal and it's like wow you really are just like your mother like trapping people in a reality of your own making

and you know making them do things and i love the kind of cop-out where Billy's like, so you're saying I killed these people? And Agan's like, well, technically, you saved one because I was going to kill these people anyway. But really, you saved a life if you think about it. It was like, okay, good cop-out, good way to kind of excuse our hero of killing people.

But to see that realization come to his mind and how he processes that yeah it was a really great journey for us to take with the character yeah i love that they also both make the joke like well um i guess now like you know i'm kind of your mentor and like we both did kill our covens oh i said too soon yeah you just laid the gravestone for those people okay oh yeah i think one of my favorite moments um like looking back uh on the series after we find out that billy created the road was when agatha uh confronts him um when he finally reveals his

powers and says that uh you and your mom have the same tell because that was such a line that I noodled on for a long time. I was like, what is she referring to? Like, is it him getting upset and like using magic? That's kind of what I had settled on. But I was like, that felt like a really strong line for kind of a weaker example. So I just didn't really understand it and then for that to finally make sense and and uh it's like oh yeah they create their own reality that's intel like that that felt good i like that your tell isn't blinking when you lie it's creating whole realities to kill people in that's really hard to pick up on but once you see it it's hard yes i love that i love that for us

and yeah is there anything else like you know for you fanny or jason that we didn't talk about or cover i mean there's so much we can dive into i know i know you know we don't want to be here for mind yeah but i i really found it to be enjoyable like i said i can't the mystical arm of marvel whether it be in the movies or comic books it's not my favorite genre of of comic bookie i'm more like a action adventure street level hero guy so coming into this was like i didn't know what to expect but i was really pleasantly surprised with what i got and i'm always a sucker for great story and great character so even if it has it in there i'm I'm 100% there so I love this a lot and I thought it really really did well I'm hoping hoping hoping for a season two so that should tell you all you need to know about how much I enjoy

yeah I'm I'm right there with you I came at this from a totally different angle which is the witchy coven that's my shit that's exactly what i want to see so i came in high expectations ready to rumble and i loved every second of it um yeah i we talked about this at the very beginning but i was so struck by how um deeply invested they were able to get us into all of these characters that were fresh faces um like yeah i cared more for these characters than i have for some characters that have been in the MCU for a long time. So, yeah, I just think it was so, so well done. We're looking at you, the cast

of The Eternals. Oh, no. This is Jason's bread and butter. But no one hates Eternals more than Jason. You can't tell. Can I use this as a word to give my criticism about the eternal that

killed me about that movie is you could not have two minutes go by without them saying slowly intensely some piece of dialogue with the background music telling you this is the most intense piece of dialogue the most intense emotional moment ever that was every two minutes of the movie i was like you cannot every moment cannot be the big emotional moment and and because they did that it cheapens the entire thing like i i was so prepared to like that movie and then it was just like i became emotionally exhausted from all of the quote-unquote emotional moments that they were trying to make happen that like didn't land it sapped it sapped all the fun that we usually get out of the mcu yeah it's like totally we've seen we've seen this go right with guardians of the galaxy you you yes you look you make us see

a squad of people that no one's ever heard of that we don't know who it is but you make us fall in love with them over a movie and it just totally fell flat with the eternals because like you said franny they took everything so super seriously. There was no fun in that movie. I almost thought it was like a Zack Snyder movie with how dark and muted all the colors were. It was sometimes boring. The characters are not hitting for me other than like Kamel non-Johnny's character. I mean, it was barely in it. It was barely in it.

I was like, he's the one I was most excited for I said he did not put steroids in his body and you know he had surgery for a cumulative

five minutes yeah he probably thought he was going to he was going to be a cornerstone of the MCU we haven't seen him since

oh and I was he's ripped now so period him and Sean Chee when they get together it's over for you hoes but you know i i can never not take a minute to bash the eternals so i yeah yeah that you feel that same way franny yeah brief future i just never got to talk about it with

anybody so i've been holding on to that for like years now um but yeah anyways you know the contrast is like Eternals so self-serious to the point of falling flat Agatha all along they committed to being silly and did so in a way that then caught us off guard when they were incredibly serious and emotional and it was chef's kiss so good correct and listen I will always consume a Marvel property you know know, good or bad, but I am grateful that this was very good and smart and women's driven. But it didn't feel nothing felt like it was hitting you over the head. It just, you know, again, I said the thing, but, you know, it felt like you were on a journey and you were really going down the road with these characters that you just didn't know. And that's because of smart writing and good casting. So I just I appreciate all of it.

And, you know, whatever is next, I can't wait. Hopefully Vision Quest is not, you know, a failure because we're two for two with this universe. Yeah. Yeah. at the current stage of the marvelous cinematic universe we needed to win so this was like this is good i feel like i needed to win and vision quest i like if it is just about like i'm just please cross my fingers that like agatha's there i want billy to be there because if it is just white vision, like talking about like, you know, philosophy. Yeah, no, bye. We don't want it.

We don't want it to be a journey to build vision back together. And that's just it. No. There has to be other elements that come into play. Like that's where humanity fails us, right? Because there's only so much you can do with these live human people that we need to bring together to do movies and television shows. If this was an animated project, if this was a comic book, we could have a series tomorrow.

But because we have to deal with all these real human people paying them, making them come in and act, who knows when we're going to get the follow-up to this. Which is one of Marvel's biggest problems is they have this big vision, pun not intended, but not enough time time not enough resource to make it fulfilled because it's not a comic book we could just write it draw it and be out the door you have to do so much so i'm just i'm hoping against hope that we get agatha all along season two we can rightfully answer some of the questions that we have here

the fact that we leave this show of like all right let's go find tommy you're giving me a promise that we're going to see that journey that's what you're doing when you say that so you better show me at some point swearing yeah like don't don't tell me show me and that that's like that's my biggest thing with marvel don't just tell me it it happened show it to me i want it so if marvel marvel i know you're watching it better happen i need it because now you got me hooked on agatha and billy so you need to give me more somebody at marvel is watching right now and they're like shit like damn it the fact that we saw yeah we saw tommy but we didn't really see tommy's like we still haven't casted tommy obviously so they were like generic young boy it doesn't matter what you look like

yeah yeah so yeah we just need to pick up these threads and because we got a lot of threads that are on the ground we just got to pick up one of the one or two of these agatha threads and play them out for us what's new are we surprised that this is the state of marvel um and one last question before we go but next marvel project you're excited for or is there one maybe there isn't and that's okay franny um i'm excited for the rumored scarlet witch movie um i i love i said at the beginning i love the scarlet witch i think she's such a badass and i feel like um anything that elizabeth olsen participates in i will be psyched about so that's what i'm excited for that's probably a long ways off but i am willing to wait i am being patient because i feel like a lot of the other stuff that's happening right now

i'm much less excited about yeah the witch's road is a circle so we'll come back to wanda one day we'll be back we'll be back exactly well at the at the finale of agatha before before it came on you saw kind of a trailer of things coming up. And I'm very excited for most of it. I would say. That's how I feel too. Yeah. We've got Daredevil born again, which is coming out,

which is Jason. That's my jam. That is my, my jam to the max. So I'm super duper excited for that. We've got a new Spider-Man animated show coming out, which is also my jam. We've got the new wonder man series which uh

i think looks very interesting uh it kind of feels like an offbeat marvel project it's got a yahya abdul-matin in it and it's got uh ben kingsley coming back as trevor slattery uh being like this acting coach so i'm i'm excited to see what that's all about so the previews we got for all these things really kind of piqued my interest so i'm really hopeful oh and ironheart as well which seems to be it seems to have some mystical elements itself we're going to have a lot of kind of demons and actually gonna be like i think so that's cool i forgot about that as mephisto and we're going to see mephisto the hood in there which is like kind of this demonic mystical being in ironheart which you wouldn't think right you like it it fits there but i got

my trust in marvel they've been on a good track record since uh secret invasion so i'm hopeful for them to see what's going on there so i I'm very excited for what's to come for Marvel. Yeah, I love that. Thank you, Jason. Yeah, and I think for me, I'm really excited about Thunderbolts. Just because we've talked about it for so damn long. You just come on already. So that's what I'm really and fantastic for.

People are going to think i'm a fool but i you know love the stupid um fantastic for uh movies that we've watched you know chris the fact that chris evans isn't going to be you know the human torch is like stressing me out and you got some of that in wolverine and deadpool so that's you know and i screamed when he said flame on uh oh my word but uh yeah so i think i'm really excited for thunderbolts just because like they've been teasing it for too damn long uh and allegedly and there's any x-men thing you you want to drop my way please you know i'm cool I'll take it all help me so anything x-men I'm sad I don't care if it's like a little you know one little uh zoom and it's gone and then I have to watch it um you know slow down on a youtube video I don't care okay x-men give me

um yeah so that that's where I am and for any adjacent just thank you so much for giving me your time to do this this was truly a joy which i already knew it would be um and with that where can the people find you for any um yeah i am you know i'm online uh my username for everything is at hail the veil um mostly on instagram and um yeah i'm not very active though so i don't know that there's much to see if you really want to seek something out that's where it is listen talk to brady okay about all all things supernatural and marvel yeah come find me i'll give you tarot reading that's what we really dig into things you know yeah oh my gosh first of all do that for me um yeah I'm just kidding but oh my god yeah um I live in Oakland

um and yeah Jason where can the people as if they didn't already know you but where can they find you uh you can find me currently on the suss pool that is twitter at jayr1085 i don't know how long i'll be there we're going to blue sky guys yeah that's why i was like should i say my name i'm not gonna plug yeah yeah uh as far as podcasts go uh i've recently we've been on the podcast network on the love at first sight feed uh me asia welch and mary krakowski just wrapped up our coverage of love is blind season seven interesting season to say the least uh so if you check that out want some coverage on that check that out me and asia are also covering murder first sight right now on the a perfect match podcast so you can check that out you like love is blind do you like murder first sight as well um and for a little side project that i have been

doing it's called the good pod where me and my co-host marissa garza we talk about the show the good wife and all the good wife related properties we are covering we are re-watching good wife we're in like almost the second season and we are covering current episodes of elsbeth as they come out uh this i didn't know you were doing that i love the good wife how fun i'm gonna listen to that i'm excited let's talk come aboard i'm ready for guests let's go um but yeah if you want to find me on all those platforms all those things i'm more than happy to have you watch listen uh talk to me about what you're thinking about these different properties

uh so that's it for me sasha what you got love that yes and of course y'all know i am talking pop culture why something's trending if you want to know what's going on online, you need to check out Mess Magnets where Kirsten McInnes and I are talking all that and more. We just talked about the Martha documentary. And honestly, it's just like 30 minutes of me geeking out over Martha being a toxic queen. I love that for us.

I love that for me. So just check out Mess Magnets on messmagnets.com yeah we have our own url and um you can find out where you can listen to us and of course um Matt Liguori and I are talking dancing with the stars uh we obviously didn't talk this week because they were off but we'll be back for the 500th episode of Dancing with the Stars. So it's going to be a fun one. And we just had America on for the last or two weeks or whatever. Last episode. And we go live right after the episode.

So it's it's really fun. You know, we have a little mirror baller community going on. So check that out on Rob is a podcast YouTube channel. That's where we go live. And for everything else. Yeah, just, you know, you know, I can't even plug Twitter anymore, y'all. going on so check that out on rob is a podcast youtube channel that's where we go live um and for everything else yeah just you know you know i can't even plug twitter anymore y'all i'm so tired of it uh but yeah just we'll see we'll meet each other again and of course until then it's been real bye