RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why ___ Lost: Survivor 47 Ep 13

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Andy had a rough start in Survivor 47 while Genevieve was practically invisible, but both of them rose up in different ways. Andy pulled off the biggest move of the season while keeping his threat level low. Genevieve made some moves of her own while staying mostly under the radar. But something changed for both. David Bloomberg and Jessica Lewis look at what each did to thrust themselves into the spotlight and how they could have avoided the repercussions that came with it. At RHAP, we know Survivor, and we know Why Andy and Genevieve Lost.

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maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. yourself and got voted out. This is why blank lost. This is why blank lost. Baby, this is why blank lost. Welcome back to a double edition of Why Blank Lost. And no, I am not going to say it's part one of the Why Blank Lost finale, because that is just silly marketing. I'm David Blomberg, and joining me for the penultimate time this season is, of course, my co-host, Jessica Lewis. Hello, everyone. I am here. And yes, it would be interesting if we just, maybe we could have a little teaser at the end

maybe we don't tell them what our predictions are no of course we have to tell them what our come on you know how i feel about those i know i know anyway because my predictions were was i half right or completely uh maybe i was half right well i was completely right you were i know you were completely right. I said Andy and Genevieve would be voted out. And that's exactly what happened. That is exactly what happened. I said Sam and Genevieve. I say exactly, but I kind of predicted them in reverse order. But, you know, let's not be nitpickers. I mean, really, the details really matter. No, no, I don't think so. I mean, you know, if, you know, for calling myself correct, no, details don't matter.

No, no, I guess not. So, yeah, but we do have a lot to discuss because we do have two rather like larger than life players to talk about, right? Yes, yes, we do. Serious, serious players this season. So it's going to be, it's going to be a long one. I'm guessing long one. I think it'll be a little long. I think some things will end up, you know, I mean like we had some people online saying, ah, can you do,

can you do one for each of them? No, sorry. Uh, you know, apologies. Yeah. It was, it was a lot just, uh, for both of us, uh, more Jessica than me to, to uh be ready for one podcast let alone two and i know you might think well if you're doing two on the same people isn't it the same there's more to it than that uh so you know we have to change shirts we have to it's all it's a whole thing um thing you a whole thing. You know, but, but, you know, because it is multiple people, yes, it will be slightly shorter. We won't go into as many details with each of them, but come on, we know the details on, I'm not, we're not going to leave out anything important. Let's put it that way.

Right, right. and of course we will still follow our usual path of comparing their games to my rules for winning that i originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since using all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on tv interviews social media and secret scenes and of course the newest version can be found at robhisawebsite.com slash yxlostfeed. Scroll down, click on the link bubble for the survivor rules. But before we address how Andy and Genevieve did in terms of the rules, we always have some other things to discuss from the episode. Now, normally lately, I've been using most of the time in this section to talk about Andy. But obviously, we'll mostly, you know, be talking about Andy later.

But there is one thing I wanted to revisit. I actually mentioned it last week. And when I mentioned it last week, I was talking about what I had said five weeks earlier, which was, you know, back after episode seven, I said there was a reason we saw the scene with Andy and Genevieve agreeing to work together. And I figured it would mean that they would go far into the game together. And they did. What I didn't know was it would also be that they went out of the game kind of right right yeah well you know you were half right there yeah yeah so um well moving away from those two for a few minutes uh let me just say what we saw uh this week this is why you keep your idol a secret oh my word right this was such

incredible gameplay by rachel and and i really truly appreciate the fact that nobody knew nobody Nobody knew so much so that Andy damned himself because he didn't know that she. Sorry, I'm jumping ahead. But yes, this is why you don't tell people that you have an idol. One hundred percent. She gained so much information and power in the game simply by not telling anyone about her. I mean, yeah, she eventually told Sue, but that wasn't an issue. Because she was so secretive and a good actress,

everybody told her they were voting her out. Right. You know, Andy even talked to Dalton Ross about how she was crying these tears of frustration. Yes. She had this big, very defeated atmosphere, very defeated mood at camp during the entire scramble. You know, it just,

she was so good at playing her role of, Oh, this is my funeral. Oh, this is so terrible. Yeah. And then on top of it, because everyone told her exactly what they were doing, she didn't have the worry that most people with idols have of, should I play it now or should I play it next time? Should I hold it or, you know, risk going home with it in my pocket or use it in vain? No. Right. You know, there was no question. Yeah. Well, and I do think that it's interesting that she went to such lengths to be convincing that she didn't have an idol because oftentimes we hear players talk about how, oh, well, so-and-so isn't really acting concerned.

And that that's concerning me because they should know that they're being the target, you know, that they're the targeted individual tonight. And they're the person that we're considering voting out. And they're just not acting that sad or frustrated and so she went that extra step and really convinced everybody not just by her words but her actions and her mannerisms full full circle i mean just incredible player all around for sure yeah yeah every future player of Survivor should see what Rachel did and relearn an important lesson from it. Because it used to be a lesson that people knew and then it got unlearned. Yes. Kind of like keeping secrets. Yes. Yes.

It's crazy. It's like she's bringing back some old school. I know. Skills. I love this. New era meets old school. I know. I love this. New era meets old school. Yes. The other item I wanted to bring up was Teenie's vote at the second tribal council. There were a lot of questions about it, you know, right after the episode itself. And in the end, it seemed a little strange that Teenie appeared to be pushing to vote out genevieve but then was the second

sam vote instead now i suspected right away that teeny voted sam because well that was the safer vote genevieve might or might not have had an idol but there was zero hint that sam had one so at worst if genevieve didn't have an idol oh well sam goes home but if genevieve did have an idol well then teeny would have been the target yeah and you know i think it's interesting though that she was she was worried about being like the backup vote i guess if there was like was there a true concern that Teenie had that she might be the other name that's being put down if an idol is played? It should have been Teenie's concern. You know, I mean, obviously they knew Rachel was safe. They didn't know Sue was safe.

But, you know, that turned out to be the case um then teeny said on twitter after the episode i knew rachel and sue were voting genevieve and put one on sam just to make sure was planned now okay i do have to say for something that was planned teeny spent an awful lot of time hemming and hawing about it in the voting booth. You know, but the end. Just 30 seconds. I just need 30 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. The end result matches, you know, what I thought. Right. If Teenie knew Rachel and Sue were voting Genevieve and it had all been a master plan by Sam and Genevieve to fool them, then presumably Sam and Genevieve would have both been voting Teenie anyway, and Teenie's one vote wouldn't have mattered. So I'm not really in, I mean, the only time it would have helped.

Well, the only time it would have helped would be if Genevieve was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, including Sam, and she voted Teenie while Sam voted Genevieve. So there were these individual votes firing around. Very low chance of happening. Was the block a vote the first time? That was the first time. So that was the first time. Okay.

Yeah. So this was a very low chance of happening. But I guess it still makes sense for Teenie to protect against even low chance of something happening. Sure. Yeah. It's interesting when you kind of work through the permutations and how the votes could land and could fall. And when people are like, she has an idol, doesn't have an idol, it's fake, it's not fake. And I think that that can stir up more paranoia and make people start thinking through almost like a conspiracy theory. Like you just said, we're like, Oh, but if this happens and then that, and then maybe,

so one vote here can make all the difference because there is an unknown factor because there is this idol that people are discussing and whether or not it's real or fake. And there's questions surrounding that too. So I could see why she was probably a little more spun up in her brain just because of all of that that was going on. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, do you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we get to the rules? I don't think so. I think it was an incredibly enjoyable episode yet again. I really do love how this season is coming together. And I just, I am very impressed with the level that the players are at, at this point in the game so far in.

It just, it feels like they're really thinking through all the avenues and all of the potential things that could happen. Just very impressive gameplay. So I'm very excited to see how it all ends up. Oh, but I do want to mention, too, I should say Rachel's spying. That was fantastic. Oh, yes, yes. That was great.

And she is completely correct. It is so dark out there. You cannot see a damn thing at all. And they warn you like you don't necessarily believe it the first night you're out there. But all the we've talked about this before, because I think it goes back to Carson having planned to, oh, I'm going to run off in the middle of the night, like, you know, and search for idols. And then he gets out there and he's like, you can't see anything in the middle of the night. You can't see anything at all.

No, it is so, so dark. Even Rome said it at the beginning of the, you know, in this preseason said something similar. So, yeah, it was an interesting or a fun camera decision to just go pitch black. Yes. Oh, yes. I loved that. A few seconds of pitch black.

I mean, there must be a tiny bit of starlight or else how did she even feel herself to the, you know, the bush? But very, very tiny so yes and i it there is a very small amount your eyes do adjust when you're out there but it is not it's not what you would necessarily expect because there is no like unnatural light right you're it's only starlight and it that's only so bright right so it is it is very dark there's a lot of trees so that's not helping the light situation but also there is something to be said about becoming familiar with the area itself because there are paths so there are areas that you would know to necessarily walk on uh so you would know what are safe places to go and she's following voices they had to get there too right so i'm sure they're not going too far away from the camp because they can't see either so i would imagine that that

probably helped her find them but just really just a fantastic moment as well that she was using she was using all of the tools in the toolbox in this episode so it was very nice to watch yeah very enjoyable all right well there were of course other things going on uh i'll be putting them on my youtube shorts at david bloomberg tv already have a couple things up there like teeny getting drunk and spilling you know the beans that weren't really spilling the beans because this is for teeny yeah yes you can call it a martini um and uh you know because even even when teeny was accidentally spilling the beans well sue already knew about the supposed idol from rachel and of course it wasn't a real idol anyway. So yes, I, you know, that and another couple already posted.

Now, before we get to how Andy and Genevieve did, we do want to mention that the rules we are about to discuss come in a shorter, much more colorful version in poster form. And it is still on sale for 20% off. Go to robhazelwebsite.com slash yxlostfeeds. Scroll down to the poster, click on it, and order it. And like I said, 20% off. So that makes it only $16 plus the shipping cost.

Our shipping department has been going crazy to make sure these get out. But, you know, as we record this. I'm trying my hardest. Yeah, there's less than two weeks till the holidays. So if you want to get one by the holidays, by all means, hurry up. Get on it. Yeah. So the shipping department can get them out to you.

Yes. Now, of course, there's also the T-shirt. I'm sorry, the poster on a T-shirt and the checklist on a T-shirt. Now, we do not control the shipping department for these. So I do not know whether, you know, how much time you have. My advice, again, hurry up uh just order it get it quickly and hopefully this is the world we live in you just scroll and click and you put it buy now pay you're done that's right that's right so yeah there is uh there is that, and everybody should hurry up and do that.

And speaking of T-shirts, I still haven't gotten my T-shirt, by the way. From? That bet that I won. Oh, okay. We'll have to address that. Just saying. It wasn't for me, so know you can't no no no I just thought of it the other day I'm like I need that t-shirt because I need to be able to wear it

but anyway all right well way back at the beginning of the season I said i didn't think andy was a jelinski or a banu i thought he was an emily and i was right he even managed to pull off the biggest move of the season to that point and kept his threat level low but then something changed meanwhile genevieve was so quiet on her tribe early that we didn't even know she existed for the first few episodes but when she emerged she also made some big moves of her own while still staying mostly low on the radar but as with andy something changed what actions that each of them took suddenly thrust both of them into the spotlight and not in a good way. How could they have avoided the repercussions that came with it? At RHAP, we know Survivor and we know why Andy and Genevieve lost.

Now, as perhaps a hint at the actions both Andy and Genevieve took, Perhaps a hint at the actions both Andy and Genevieve took. You know, the ones I just mentioned. We're going to shake things up and start with the second rule, which is not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret. Both Andy and Genevieve had game changing issues here. Yes. Starting with Andy.

Well, we saw what happened. You already jumped ahead and mentioned it. I am so sorry. As if it was a big surprise. Like nobody knew that we were going to talk about that. Right. Spoiler. He was trying to convince Rachel that he was playing hard and had a good chance to win at the end. And in her own words, as she hugged him goodbye, you were very convincing today, just not in the way you thought. Yes. Yes. I mean, this was really a battle in his mind, I think, between Appendix B, which we'll still talk about in the end, and this rule, rule two. Now, Stephen Fishback has been on Blue Sky and then went on Know It Alls, trying to make the case that Andy did the right thing because it was a low percentage chance that Rachel would make it through the vote.

But Fishback is wrong. They knew there was a possibility of idols being out there. I mean, heck, there were still two of them in play at this point. I feel like they all forgot about that other one though nobody had played one in the post-merge right but i feel like they didn't know that there was a second one introduced because that came during the even so they should know that there's at least one or two idols out there well sure one you can certainly know every the red paint you can certainly know the red paint idol,

who's got the red paint idol. Right. But maybe they just didn't think that there would be a second one for whatever reason. And still, the red paint idol was not accounted for at that point. Right. Stephen's argument was that this could have won the game

for Andy if she didn't have anything and therefore was indeed going to the jury. And that could be true, but it was only half the equation. The chance that she did have a way out of this was simply too high, much higher than Andy's early calculation that Kyle wouldn't win all the immunity challenges. Yeah. And, you know, we just mentioned the red paint idol. At least some of them, if not all of them, knew the story of the red paint, and they had to figure that that idol might be out there somewhere.

Andy could be pretty sure that Genevieve and Sam didn't have it. That only left three other possibilities. Now. Yeah. You know, I know I credited Rachel's's acting job earlier but rule two addresses almost this exact scenario it says as much as players might feel like it's a good idea to let the targets know in case they make it to final three and have to face those previous targets at the

jury the fact of the matter is that it's better to risk it and at least get to the final three rather than giving your target an opportunity to turn the tables. Then you can talk to the jury about how good a player you were and hope they buy it. This is especially true nowadays with the prevalence of so many idols. You never know when your target might have one and you certainly don't want to let them know they should plan to use it yeah and i think that this is this is an interesting little issue in particular to andy because i think andy found himself in a tough spot and he talked about this in his exit press that even though we saw Operation Italy as like, wow, that was an incredible move

and everything that they put together and how impressive it was. It wasn't perceived that same way by Teenie or Rachel or Sue because they were just like, that's Andy flipping. And so I think there was almost this moment of like, Andy had done this incredible thing, and he didn't want to be left with having to justify his game in the final three. He wanted her to go into the jury and kind of sell his game for him, messing with the jury a little bit, right? Which we've talked about, that people, that Ponderosa have a tendency to do this.

And so I do feel like he was in a very tough spot because he was recognizing that they might not see his game for what he believes it should be seen as. So it is a calculated risk. I don't think it was the right call, obviously, because it switched the vote and put it onto Andy. But it was something

that i think he was struggling with greatly and was very concerned with if he gets to the final three he hasn't had a chance to already work the jury and she to her credit called him out on it jury management like you're literally like working the jury already so there is it is, it's a, it's a very big risk to take, but I can see why Andy wanted to do it for sure. I can see, but the risk just does not, the risk is too high. And, and that's what I meant earlier when I said it's a battle between the second rule and appendix B, you know, you have to decide what you're going to. And I get that Andy wanted to have someone arguing on his behalf in the jury. But here's the other thing. He didn't plan to go to the end with Sam and Genevieve.

And I was just going to say that you've got Genevieve. If you if you intend on sending her to the jury, that's your individual right there who's going to talk about it. Right. I think they would have been honest about who initiated and planned Operation Italy. I don't think, you don't have a situation like a certain unnamed recent season where a certain unnamed juror was mad at a certain finalist and therefore

didn't credit that finalist with making moves. These were not people who had like worked closely and were super close friends and would feel the sting of betrayal. These were people who had played the game you were super close friends and would feel the sting of betrayal these were people who had played the game uh you know Genevieve in particular specifically talked about keeping emotions out of it as as we'll discuss um and I see no reason to suspect that they would have lied to their fellow jurors. Yeah. About what happened. Yeah. And also I think it,

it would, it would have given Andy an opportunity to also credit people in the jury because we've talked about that too. It's always nice for someone in the final three to recognize the person who's sitting in the jury box and say, Hey, because of you, like I'm here,

like we did this together. We came up with this plan so you're making them feel better as a player you're recognizing them but then you're also talking about what you did because the last thing that they necessarily would want to do in that moment is kind of poo poo it like oh it wasn't that great no yeah i mean i was part of it it was awesome we did this and so i do think that yes sam and genevieve likely would have said all of the right things for andy regarding that particular move yeah yeah and the other thing is he didn't even have to necessarily wait till then he could have dropped hints about it at the next tribal council

sure uh you know i mean doing it before fire making would be a little risky unless he won that immunity challenge um but he could have done it. I mean, it always seems, and I don't know, maybe there are restrictions on what they can say, but it seems like after someone loses fire making Jeff doesn't immediately send them out. He sits them back down and, you know, talks to them for a few seconds and he could have jumped in on that one too you know um he just he said in his interviews that you know he felt okay telling rachel about his gameplay in part because he thought he was so much lower in kind of the threat ranking compared to sam that it wouldn't even matter uh he figured even with that additional information if there happened to be an idol sam

would be the one going out on the bad end of it and frankly from the look on sam's face when rachel revealed the idol he thought so too um yes and andy did not expect it to be andy yeah But as I quoted Rachel saying, Andy was just that convincing. She went from telling him he had a perception as a nothing burger to determining he was the biggest available threat to vote out. You know, she said on the show, Andy is trying to win me over. And then instead, it made her think he was a better option than sam uh you know she said andy is playing a much better game than anyone is giving him credit for and he had fooled her three times already yeah and also another component that she might have been considering is if andy's in the final three and she's in the final three, the third seat is probably going to be like a sue.

I'm guessing if this is the permutation that she's put together in her mind, which means Genevieve and Sam are sitting in the jury. And so if they are all included in Operation Italy and if they've been playing with Andy and know the type of game he's been playing, you run the risk of those two people voting for Andy. So you know that there's going to be two votes going Andy's way instead of your way, perhaps. You know, that might've been something else that she was thinking about as well in that very moment about how this is all going to play out

if he's in the final three with her. To Genevieve, like I said, she had a similar issue. The difference was the response to Andy's situation was immediate, while hers took a few votes before she was fully hit with the repercussions. took a few votes before she was fully hit with the repercussions. We've said for weeks now that Genevieve's move against Saul was unnecessary, too early, too big, and too obvious. That's why I've been predicting that she'd go for like five weeks.

For her part, Genevieve said in interviews that the move against Saul was not too early. She did say this, yes. I disagree. Or at least I would say maybe she could be right about the timing, but she needed to do it in a different way that was not so big and so obvious. I mean, she was the one who made it clear that the Saul vote was her move. And then Gabe reinforced that. And it wasn't until after it happened that Genevieve realized, maybe taking credit for the move wasn't the best idea.

Or as Gabe said, Genevieve put a huge target on her back with the Saul move. Yeah. And she'd been down low till she emerged into that vote and the problem was she emerged too early well but she had already kind of done this once right and that was when she was working through um because we have to go back the roman kishan vote yes so the roman kishan vote she had already kind of laid this excuse me so she had already laid the groundwork for that yes and yes but here's the thing that that was when you know pre-merge sure and it was so there were only a few people there to see it. Well, right, right. And she had kind of, you know,

brought those people back together with her again, or at least TV. And the reason I bring that up is because maybe, you know, it's like she got a little taste of it, right? And, oh, it worked, right? Like I did this with Keyshawn and it it was an incredible move. Nobody saw it coming. I was able to bring people together that were not working together. And it was like no harm, no foul. Right. She got what she wanted.

The vote went the way she wanted. And then she kind of could disappear back into herself for a bit. And so I'm curious if having done it once and it going so well for her and then not having those same repercussions from it that she might have thought, well, now's my chance because we aren't going to have very many chances to get Saul out. And so I need to do this now

because I can see his threat level and I can see everybody likes him and I can see that he's going to be an issue. And if I don't do this now because I can see his threat level and I can see everybody likes him and I can see that he's going to be an issue. And if I don't do this now, then I might not have another chance. And I did that once before on Keyshawn and it worked out okay. So I don't know if maybe it's like she got to try it once and it worked. So she was like, I'm going to do it again. Yeah, that reminds me, I may have told this story here before. I can't imagine why I would have. But, you know, my father tells the story how he had a friend from high school who, you know, in later years, he robbed a bank and he was successful and it was easy. So then he went and robbed a bank again and he got caught.

See, this is what I'm saying. So she got away with it the first time and was like, oh, and it felt so great because she got what she wanted. And then this is, yeah. So unfortunately, I just wonder if maybe that was why she was so willing to put herself out there to do it again because she had done it once. Yeah, I mean, maybe, you know, I mean, the fact the lack of repercussions certainly you know could have encouraged that um but yeah it was just even if it wasn't too soon it was too obvious well and and don't get me wrong i'm not saying it wasn't but i also feel like with the way that survivor is now being played by this new era and this idea of big move itis which we've talked about a lot that people feel like they need to have a big move they need to have something on their resume even though the discussion is always oh now they put a big target on their back and so then they're the

next ones that get voted out people still want to do it they still want to have that moment and i think perhaps in in genevieve's circumstance i don't know if she was necessarily even thinking i need a big move it wasn't like andy andy was like i need a big move because i need them to know i'm playing genevieve was just like i need to get him out of here because he's going to end up winning so she was being more calculated about it not realizing necessarily that oh this is going to be seen as a big move and Gabe is just going to tell everybody that this was a big move because Gabe saw saw it for what it was so I don't know if if her doing it was because she thought she needed it I think she thought she needed it for the game period and then realized afterwards oh shoot that didn't work

out necessarily the way i want in the end he went home but now people are looking at me and that's the other thing too is i would say it's fairly rare at that point in the game that you have to get a person out right then or else they're gonna. Sure. There were a lot of votes coming up. Saul was not known as some sort of challenge beast. Right. You know, and what we see is frequently as you get closer to the end, the more someone is like Saul, the more you want to get them out. I mean, you look at the people who they want to target and it's like, well, we want to get rid of Caroline. Why? She's too nice and in good with everybody. We want to get rid of Sam. Why? Because he had too many connections early on. We want to get

rid of Rachel. Why? Oh, because I mean, okay. She did win a music, but she's also very well-liked, you know, right. Yeah. They are going to be the targets anyway. So don't put your whole game life on the line to get rid of one at that exact moment. Understood. I think that's the way she felt and then realized later, you know, but she's still as convinced it was the right time. I know. Um, and sorry, Genevieve, but that's why we're here to tell people when they're right and when they're wrong.

Usually it's Stephen Fishback, but you know, in this case, it's also her. Um, now there was another thing in this rule for Genevieve as well. When she admitted to Teenie that the idol was fake. During the show, many of us thought she was using some type of multi-level thinking to kind of like outsmart uh you know there were a lot of princess bride gifts posted um and you know trying trying to you know like making teeny rachel and sue question is it real is it fake who knows uh turns out no genevieve acknowledged in all her interviews and she kind of apologized. She's like, no, sorry, it wasn't me being brilliant. I was just being honest.

Yeah. And it was because Teenie's emotional plea got to her. Now, we'll discuss part of that in rule four, but providing that information could have contributed to the outcome of the vote. providing that information could have contributed to the outcome of the vote. Or it might not have. It's quite possible that Rachel and Sue would have voted for her anyway, knowing that they were both safe. It's literally no risk to either of them. So they might have taken that chance.

Still not something that Genevieve should have done. Yes, but I also think she mentioned as well that she was not expecting Sam to throw her under the bus and tell team that it was fake. And I posted this on blue sky. I haven't gotten an answer from anyone yet that I saw. I don't understand her saying this in all the interviews because she said, well, I didn't think Sam would be afraid to face me or something like that. And it's like, yeah, well, everyone thinks you have an idol. It's three against two.

He's the other one. If they all think you have an idol, they're going to vote for him. I don't understand. I do not know what she was trying to convey in her interviews when she said that. I do not know what she was trying to convey in her interviews when she said that. I don't know if she misremembered where they were in the game at that point or what. I do not get what she was saying, especially since there is an Entertainment Weekly secret scene of the two of them talking where Sam pulls her aside and says, Hey, I'm sorry. I had to tell teeny, but it was necessary. And she says, Oh,

I totally get it. I would have done the same thing. Yeah. And she did say that, that she would have done the same thing. But I also think it's, it's one of those circumstances where it's almost like, I don't know what she thought the other option was really because there's only so many players left whether or not they want to vote for you or Sam and we saw I mean Teenie put a vote on Sam so that did happen so they can certainly work through the numbers and and the votes so it is it I'm not sure what the plan even if they thought it was a real idol what that would necessarily have accomplished for either of them so there didn't really seem to be

a reason to not come clean by sam at that moment and say hey by the way this is not a real idol and for her to tell i mean she shouldn't have said anything to teeny but she also didn't expect tina to be asking so she was like well she asked i wasn't expecting it and so i just said yes yeah but don't don't just say yes uh unless someone wants to be in an alliance yes then you just say yes but there's so many rules not when they say is your idol fake uh you know then then no, don't don't say yes. All right. All right. Well, I mentioned that both Andy and Genevieve had similar issues here, but they were in really different portions. They were in different portions of this rule.

While Andy didn't keep his scheming secret, Genevieve had some of that, but mostly schemed and plotted too much. However, both of them resulted in people seeing them as bigger threats than they had been prior to that happening. So with that in mind, let's go crazy this week and skip now to the sixth rule, which warns against being too much of a threat. Look at this guy. Yeah. Throwing it all out there. I love this.

No order. Nothing. Two, six, one, three, four. Sounds like a football player or something. Now, again, starting with Andy, he had been seen for pretty much the whole game as one of the lowest level threats there. Part of it was by design,

as he understood how the others perceived him, and he played into it after everything that happened those first few days. As he told Mike Bloom, having a low perceived threat level was a feature, not a bug. The problem was that as the endgame rapidly approached, he knew he had to change that perception if he had a chance of getting any votes at the end. had to change that perception if he had a chance of getting any votes at the end. We discussed this quite a bit last week, and there were a fair number of people then arguing that his move with Operation Italy had increased his threat level too much, such that he'd be immediately targeted after the vote. And the thing is, that didn't happen. We were right in saying he did the correct thing. And in his interviews, he said something similar that he knew this was the point at which he had to

do something to change everyone's perception of him. When they got back to camp after that tribal council, the three of them played it off as a happy accident, which further downplayed any potential threat level from him. As you mentioned earlier, you know, he told Dalton Ross, I felt like even in the aftermath of operation Italy, it didn't even really raise my threat level because the people who were left out didn't understand the details of the move. Right. And then as, as you know,

Sam said on the show, he worried he was Rachel's target because she didn't realize how big of a threat Andy was. So yeah, Andy was absolutely successful when it came to this rule. The problem was he was too successful in terms of his future chances for getting votes if he made it to the end. if he made it to the end. Yes. And I really do feel like this is such an interesting component to Andy in particular,

because we have seen players who have played under the radar, whose games haven't been obvious, and they still end up winning. Erica is someone that we were curious about, and then she ended up winning. And so it can certainly happen, but Andy was, we weren't curious about Erica. I, we had, I totally discounted her. I, I had said, you know, my preview or my prediction for that finale was anyone

can win except for Erica. She absolutely can't. Now that was based on an edit read and that was you know the worst editing one of the worst editing jobs Survivor has ever done for a winner but no I don't disagree yeah but I think that in Andy's case Andy had put himself in a circumstance that was almost untenable right because they they had that that day three issue where he was he was suffering greatly from heat exhaustion and and just and had the the breakdown on the mat and so now it's now everyone is perceiving him as this weak player who is not going to be able to get through this game without help and handholding and he's

realizing that on day four that oh my gosh this is where i'm at and and it kept he kept referring to as like my threat level was like mud it was like dirt like i mean it and and but he took that and recognized it and then used it in his game So it was very fascinating because he didn't come out and go, well, I have to correct this narrative right now. And I need to let everybody know that, that I'm better and stay for, and I'm in a different place. No, he used it to his benefit, which is a fantastic way for someone to play this game. And something that we don't necessarily see very often where you take something that is so bad and so like oh this poor guy is never going to have a chance but then he

spins it and uses it to his benefit but unfortunately then he's in a situation where can he win because nobody sees him as a threat until he says hi hi, by the way, I am a threat. And let me tell you all the reasons why before he gets to the final three. And so I really do feel for Andy because trying to find that balance in the game that he was playing seems very, very difficult. And I think he tried to maneuver through it exceptionally well. But he was in such a tough spot knowing that Sue and Teenie and Rachel just thought he was a flipper. And they were like, Andy just flipped. So whatever, like we're, it's not, we're not going to give him the credit for this because it wasn't that impressive. And then when

you have everybody saying, well, it's kind of a happy accident. So, okay. He's still not getting credit for this incredible operation Italy that they came up with. So I can understand his frustration, but also like, how do you find that balance in that type of circumstance? Yeah, I mean, you have to find it is the answer. But it's like walking a tightrope across the Grand Canyon. Now, it's funny because this episode began with Genevieve telling Andy this was a thousand percent his move and she would tell everyone. And I was like, oh, you know, I thought this was going to end up being a callback to when Gabe told her that the soul move was all hers. And she ended up becoming the target because of it.

But that disappeared. It turned into a big nothing. Like she said that. And then they immediately switched to telling teeny it was an accident. Yeah. Which I, when that happened, I thought, okay, well now, no one's really going to know how this came about. So maybe they were all expecting to just announce it in the final three. This is actually what we did. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And you know,

so obviously everything changed after that, you know, I said a few minutes ago, I said he did a great job in this role. Dot, dot, dot until, you know, because making the big Operation Italy move was great. But as we discussed in the second rule, about the big operation italy move was not so great and it made his threat level skyrocket to the person that mattered the most yes um so yeah it comes back like you said you you know, or it's the balance, you know. And so now Genevieve's level, threat level, also similarly shot up after her big move of taking out Saul. And just as I said earlier, the impact of it didn't hit her as quickly because there were other things that intervened there. We thought that she would get knocked out right away but then no and and then i thought and then i thought and then i thought and then you saw it

but i mean it was a combination of other juicier targets and other moves that you know kept her around but as she said at an earlier tribal council once you get that stamp of threat, it doesn't wash off. Nobody forgot about her. She wasn't able to, you know, she wasn't, she wasn't able to pull an alligator and sink back under the water, you know, which is what she wanted to do. Yeah. They, they knew what she was capable of. She had shown her intelligence and her strategic ability and the others didn't want that coming at them again as caroline told dalton ross last week genevieve from our perspective was the biggest threat what i think is fascinating though is she and andy kind of seem to be in completely different places in this particular rule because she was like why am i so much of a threat like she she was struggling with this and she thought sam was a bigger threat than she was she did not think that she would like

rachel she's like well i don't understand why everyone's looking at me she was almost like she was self-deprecating right we're like i'm not really that significant and important and i'm not really that much of a threat but people keep telling me I am and keep reminding me that I am. Whereas you have Andy, who's like, no, no, please. I am a threat. Look at me. Do you see me? I'm a threat. I really, you need to see it. And so I just think it was interesting that they both found themselves in completely different ends of the spectrum when they were both threats, but one was like, no, I'm not. And the other one's like, please, I am. Yeah. Should have been like a freaky Friday situation. They swapped. Right. Can we, can we swap for a minute? And he's like,

can I just be Genevieve for one day? So I know what it feels like for everybody to talk about how much of a threat I am, as opposed to telling me I'm a, what was the burger? What kind of burger? Nothing burger. A nothing burger. Yeah. And that's kind of a hard thing to hear. You're a nothing burger.

Yeah. But Genevieve was not a nothing burger. No, no. She was a burger burger, a something burger. I don't know. She was an everything burger. An everything burger. All the fixings. Big Mac?

I don't know. You just called Genevieve a big man i know at least i can call her a whopper um oh goodness i'm sorry genevieve yeah um what you get for being a threat that's right that's right we know she can't be a whopper because whoppers are flame broiled and she didn't practice fire. But oh, that's a bit of a burn. Oh, burn. We're just so funny. Yeah, she did. She did say she thought that she would do very well in the fire making. Yeah. Yeah. But I think she said that, you know, in a joking fashion. So just. Mm hmm. All right. I think she said that in a joking fashion. In a jest. Mm-hmm.

All right. Well, we can return to our usual flow with the first and most important rule, which is to scheme and plot. Now, we know both Andy and Genevieve did well. Andy, in particular, was doing a lot that most people didn't see, as we've been discussing. And he was perfectly happy with that for most of the game he he was telling us over and over again like all he needed i mean

he had the twirly hair he needed like a twirly mustache as he said you know i'm controlling the game and they just don't know um but you know as soon as shortly after his issues at that first challenge andy rebounded by getting in good with sam and sierra and you know being willing to sacrifice john he he worked hard to stick with them for a while as he told dalton ross in a mid-game interview that it was his only path and he had to, quote, just cling on and get to the next phase of the game because that is where all my options would finally open up. Now, some of those options stemmed from what the others saw in that first challenge, but

he also made specific moves to make them believe he was a piece to be scooped up, such as telling Caroline and Teenie at the journey that he was in a bad spot with his own tribe. Yes. Mm hmm. Everything that he ended up doing was very calculated. Yes. And it wasn't necessarily clear to all of us even watching that this is what he was doing because there was a little bit of head scratching. even watching that this is what he was doing because there was a little bit of head scratching. Like, is this, is he really like what he believes he is or is he really just kind of being carried along and, and we can't tell, but it turns out it was a plan and it was calculated and these were decisions that he was making in order to further his game.

So that is like long term strategizing, right? You're not, it's not just like one day, like you are going every single day creating this narrative. And he talked so much about perception, which I thought was fantastic. We've talked about that so often that perception is reality. And he understood wholeheartedly how they perceived him. And he realized this is going to get me further in the game. I need to like lean in hardcore on this because it is going to get me further in the game i need to like lean in hardcore on this because it's going to help me and so that had to have been a very hard thing for him

because you're hearing things about yourself that you don't want to hear like you're a nothing burger but in the end it's kind of like the last laugh like he's going to get the last laugh if he can make it that far so he really did dig in and i mean this is scheming and plotting at a different level and i'm really impressed because i wasn't seeing it at the beginning i thought this guy's gotta go like he's just gonna he's he's gonna end up causing issues and being a problem but in the end he was he was playing his game The best way that he could Considering the circumstances he was in Yeah

Now then, once he got to the merge We talked in earlier podcasts About how he built a web Of different alliances Like Brian Heideck And wanted to be a pendulum Like Will Wall He didn't use those names, that's me

He had good relationships with a lot of players, which gave him those different options. So when his name came up as a backup vote and Saul told him that Sam was the one who put it out there, and he saw how that added to other little hints that told him he wasn't so tight with Sam and Sierra anymore. You know, as he said at the time, Sam and Sierra still feel like they own me. They have me in their pockets. They look at me as an expendable piece and as sort of a weak player. For me, that's enough to just cut bait, like goodbye. And then he, of course, had his she's all that transformation and moved on. You know, as he told Mike Bloom, he knew that by acting like

he was a low threat, other people would bring him in on plans. That gave him the ability to have some swing vote power while he waited for the right time to make his big move, which, of course, was Operation Italy. Right. He came up with a plan. He did a great job acting to his fellow underdog alliance members, and he played into the image they all had of him, as we discussed last week. Mm hmm. Yeah. Really just some impressive gameplay. Yeah. And he played into the image they all had of him, as we discussed last week. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Really just some impressive gameplay.

Yeah. Now, Genevieve had a different path. She was quiet in the early days, and it turned out that she discussed in interviews she had been sick. But once she started going, she definitely made her mark. She definitely made her mark. We saw how, and already discussed a little bit, how she turned things against Kishan when she realized that targeting Rome at that point was not in her best interest.

She was able to make that decision because she had good relationships with the people in her tribe, except really Saul. So she could choose which of them would be most advantageous for her going forward. And she was also very good at realizing her place because quickly she recognized, I'm not anyone's second. And even though we thought that maybe she was Rome's second, she was looking at the information that was being shared and it was being shared with Tini and then it was being shared with kashan and then it was being shared with genevieve

and so she said oh i am not as important as i thought i was to rome and to the rest of the individuals in this group and so she really did utilize that information to put herself in a better position which is why she ended up targeting kishan so her game was so like multi-faceted because it wasn't just linear there was all of these permutations and these levels and things that she was considering and she did it in a way on that kishan vote that didn't really upset people either which is really i mean it upset kishan but of course, right. But it didn't upset the other people that were in the tribe. I mean, Dini, you know, Kishan is number one, but.

And that is true. She managed to fix things with Tini. And so I do think that Genevieve was thinking through all of these steps when she was making a decision, but she was making the decision because she saw a path that would get her to a particular place and it wasn't just about i need to make a move it was there's a legitimate concern for my game right now with this particular circumstance and i need to fix it before it becomes too big and i can't fix it yeah Yeah. Yeah. You know, once Genevieve then got to the merge,

she saw when it was time to turn on Rome and then went from there. As we discussed in the second rule, she eventually came to the decision that Saul had to go. She told Rob that her strategy was to get rid of people who connected well with others, but weren't working with her. That's a good strategy. It made sense, therefore, to target Saul. Just

like I said, not when and how she did it. When she went to work, she did it well, telling Sue that Saul was going after Gabe, knowing what reaction that would cause from Sue. And she kept it so hidden in the moment that Sam and Saul and others thought they could count on her to flip the vote back, even though she was the one who had started it. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, again, this is her her ability to read the room and to figure out how to get to that point but then i do think that she had some help because she did have people like gabe who were obviously supporting this because they thought well now this is going to make her a target so kudos to me this will be great because i'm just going to tell everybody she did it and and it'll be awesome. But she certainly did work through that, even though it's probably too soon. She had her reasons for doing it. It wasn't just a knee jerk reaction. She thought through the reasons and defended those reasons when she was explaining why she voted him out at the time that she did. Yeah. The thing was, after that point, you know, she became the target and it was hard to get anything going.

As she told Mike Bloom, I had influence, but no authority in this game. I had no numbers with me aside from Sam and we were the minority. So my strategy couldn't be long term and based on building things. It had to be very circumstantial based on what was happening in the moment because I didn't have the infrastructure around me to do long-term planning. Right. So yeah, she made it from vote to vote. Her legend kind of grew with each passing day.

But then after Operation Italy, all she could do was rely on her supposed idol until, of course, sam revealed that it was fake right we talked about when teeny questioned her she admitted it again for reasons we'll get into in rule four and then you know tried to kind of turn it into a question of whether or not she was telling the truth once she saw the reactions of sue and Rachel, but she was pretty well doomed in that attempt because as we mentioned, only teeny was actually at risk. So the other two could target her without fear.

Sure. All right. Well, we can go to the third rule, which tells players to be flexible. Jessica, how do you think Andy did in terms of this rule? I think he did great.

And I mean, I would? I think he did great. And I mean, I would say Genevieve did great as well. I'll just throw them both out there. Because I do think that we've spent a lot of time talking about Andy and his need to shift his game almost immediately and figure out how it was going to work for him. Andy was always looking for the other option. And he was doing it in a way that nobody was suspicious about what he was doing because he was having conversations with everyone. He was gathering information.

He was letting people treat him as a number and letting people treat him as an additional vote that they would need to pull off whatever plan that they were creating. So he was part of it, but he was willing to do all of the extra legwork he needed to do in order to fix the situation that had been created for him so early on in the game. So I think Andy really did, he did a fantastic job at being flexible for sure. He was always looking for options.

Yeah, I agree. You know, I mean, we've discussed quite a bit already that it was a major part of his strategy, you know, especially at the merge. He came in with Sam and Sierra, but knew he had to jump ship when he started feeling suspicious of them. He even told Gordon Holmes that it started earlier when he noticed them keeping secrets that they didn't need to keep. And it seemed like they were spending more time with Rachel than with him. So, you know, he was picking up on these things.

He had his finger on the pulse of what was going on, which is also part of this rule. And then, as we discussed, he branched out. Now, he also talked to us essentially about flexibility in that confessional where he discussed being a numbers guy, but recognizing he couldn't just algorithmically determine the correct path because people have different priorities. And so he was going to use, excuse me, his relationships and arrange the pieces how he wanted on the game board.

Now, you already said also your thoughts on Genevieve. Yeah, I mean, Genevieve was someone who, and I, and I mentioned previously was reading the room so well and figuring out the relationships and where people were and what type of relationship she had with these individuals and where did she fall in that pecking order, if you will. And she was willing to take out Kashan, who was someone she was actually working with very closely. So much so that I trusted you, Genevieve.

That was the comment that we heard him say. But she over and over again. Over and over. Yes. But she knew that she needed to do that for her game at that point in time. And and she mentioned so many times there. It was the so many times that it was the Genevieve the person and Genevieve the player. And so she was trying very hard to make the moves

that Genevieve the player needed to make. And so I do think that she was keeping all of her options open and even found Sam so much later in the game, but then realized that she could utilize Sam and that she could play with Sam. And when Andy all of a sudden appeared and, and operation Italy came up,

she was certainly not opposed to trying something different with another player. So I think overall she did an excellent job as well. Yeah. I will say, you know, I think she was being very flexible to the point of the move against Saul.

I think once she did that, her flexibility pretty much went out the window because she became isolated as a target. Sure. I mean, she had those other people you mentioned, but that was more out of necessity than planning. Yeah.

You know, so she tried a few things, but none of them were really going to pan out for her at that point. But she also could have just tried to throw in the towel too. Right. If she gets to that point where like, like what am i going to do at this point but she didn't do that not throwing in the towel is my base level you know of oh and i understand but she but she certainly was willing to consider all options and and didn't just decide it's too late for her i

mean she was she was considering any possibility that she could. And why would she not? It's a game for a million dollars. Right. Exactly. All right. Well, the fourth rule tells players not to let their emotions control them. I've already dropped a few hints that we'd have some things to say about both players' decisions here.

To start with Andy again, we discussed at length in the second rule how he made his big mistake because he needed people to respect him and his game and that's an emotional reaction you know yes he needed people to respect his game once he got to final tribal council but anything other than that goes beyond the game. He told Rachel that he wasn't telling her to convince her to lobby for him in the jury, but rather because he respected her and wanted her to respect him. Now, I know, you know, that could have been BS because, of course, he wanted her to be his advocate in the jury. But he also said in interviews that not being respected hurt after a while, even though he knew he had been purposely

making people think that way. Right. You know, as he told Gordon Holmes, people you live with all the time thinking poorly of you starts to wear on you and you start to get emotional about it. And we had seen him have these emotional flashes leading up to this point, such as when Genevieve told Rachel, she thought Andy was just being

dragged along. And he told us, I'm sick of it. I'm sick of being underestimated in this game. Yeah. And, and I can, I can understand why that would wear on a person because you, you want the respect, but also Andy had kind of put himself in this situation too. Right. So it's, it's again, trying to find that balance. You, you want to save your game because of the situation that you, you now exist in because of what happened on day three, but then you have to, you have to live that every single day and you have to own a portion of yourself. You might not want to, and you have to act like you are a way that you don't want to be and this isn't the survivor game you necessarily wanted to be playing

so yeah i can understand why that would wear on him but if you've committed you got to commit all the way to the finale like you just got to commit all the way down the final three yeah i mean it's like it's like a cop going undercover as a drug dealer and then being upset at all the people he meets think he's a drug dealer, you know, it's a great analogy. It's like, yeah, it sucks that they think you're the scum, but that's kind of the role you signed up for. You did a great job pretending. Right. Right. Um, and I'm not saying Andyy is come i'm saying drug

dealer but uh you know i mean andy he kept saying i want them to think i'm not doing anything and then they'd be like well you're not doing anything and it's like you're nothing burger uh yeah um you know and and i did mention previously on the podcast that for a while I was confused about Andy's edit because we saw him making game moves and he talked intelligently to us about the game in confessionals but it was also clear that the other players thought Andy was good to bring to the end because he wasn't a threat now over the few episodes and in his interviews we learned more about that. I don't know why it was important for them to show at the time, but now I see it. This was what drove, sorry, I didn't know at the time

when I was talking about it then. But this was, it turns out, what drove Andy into making his biggest mistake in the game right and that was telling rachel yes yeah yeah sure so as for genevieve she had a different relationship with emotions throughout the game you might even call it a roller coaster uh you know she came in wanting to play without emotions Then she made some emotional connections Then she felt bad about voting out Kishan And decided she would rather be a villain than a friend who killed someone's dreams

Now, this rule, of course, says you should separate your emotions from your game But Genevieve went a step further And basically tried to remove all emotions like she was a Vulcan. You know, but that didn't work either because she realized that without any emotional connections at all, it might be easier for her to vote out other people. But it was also easier for them to vote her out. Right. And it's really hard when you don't have relationships to then formulate plans with people and feel like you are connected in some way that they owe you their, like, their, I don't know, support.

Loyalty. Yes. Loyalty. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she eventually circled back to what this rule is really about, which is to make your strategic moves without considering emotion in the equation. It was more difficult for her than she expected it to be,

but she finally got there. Yeah, and I do, and I've already mentioned it once, but the Genevieve the person versus Genevieve the player, and I do think that this was a very real struggle for her throughout the game because she realized, oh God, it doesn't feel good when you vote someone out that you care about oh that's unfortunately the game of survivor yeah and yeah you can't remove all of the emotional part of yourself when you are making these decisions because we're all human we're not robots but when you're dealing with a game for a million dollars you have to be able

to know when to separate and know that that's just going to be part of your game right right now in her last episode this comes back to uh when she did get let emotions interfere because we've already discussed this a bit the decision she made to Teenie the truth about her fake idol was a purely emotional one. We didn't see it in the episode, but she said in interviews the discussion was much, much longer, and Teenie got much, much, much more upset with her. As she told Mike Bloom,

in that moment, I was unprepared. The player went to the side, and the person was like, oh my God, I care so much about Teenie. I just wanted to stop them feeling distressed. Now, we mentioned earlier that her telling Teenie the truth about this might or might not have played a real role in the eventual vote. But it really shouldn't have been an issue to worry about, except that, again, Genevieve

just got caught in that emotional roller coaster of hers. Yeah, and I do think that at that point in the game, because she's cut herself off so much from so many people, I mean, Tina, she had been with since the beginning. And so the relationship that she had with Teenie was something that involved a lot of lies throughout the game. And that was something that I think was wearing on Genevieve as well, that Teenie is very upset about this component. And Genevieve is revisiting in her mind, I've lied to Teenie a lot throughout this game,

and realizing that that's probably not making teeny feel good in this moment either. And so I do think that all of that probably just came to a head for Genevieve in that moment because teeny really had been with Genevieve from the start. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

you know, both players were kind of in extreme situations of emotion, but survivor can be an extreme game oh for sure you know yeah all right well the fifth rule reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game now judging from what we saw on the show i think both players did pretty well here nobody was lashing out at them because they were mad well maybe other than sue but that happened whenever anyone did something she didn't like you know like playing the game um even as other players fought to get them out they still compared andy to a brother and genevieve to

a close friend or to voldemort but you know vo Voldemort in a nice way. Um, you know, what do you think of, of how they did in this role? Well, I, I do think that it, okay. To Andy's credit, we have to give Andy the most credit we possibly can in this particular particular rule, because what we saw of Andy right off the bat, and I, and I, I certainly don't want to speak ill of Andy, but I mean, in that moment, the handholding that, that went on and that, that felt necessary in order to keep Andy happy because like they weren't clapping when he opened a coconut and and and all of these things as someone from the outside looking in and watching this i was like oh god that would be to live with

that 24 7 would be terrible so there had to have been something about andy that made it desirable not just to keep him around because of votes, but also setting aside that that part of him. And maybe it was because they're like, well, he feels like my little brother. So so really, there had to have been something that Andy was able to do to make people want to keep him for vote purposes, but also a willingness to bring him along, knowing that they thought he needed to have such handholding. And so I would imagine that there had to have been another component to Andy. And he certainly seemed very kind and very sweet

when he was interacting with each person individually and was also willing to show his loyalty in ways, like you can take my shot in the dark, you can have it. And so he was willing to put himself out there so much. to show his loyalty in ways like you can take my my shot in the dark you can have it yeah i mean and so he was willing to put himself out there so much so i think overall andy had to have had something really working for him because people were willing to work with him and then genevieve even though she was trying to separate her emotions from the game she was still able to connect with people

and bring people together who had not been wanting to work together. When you had Saul and Rome who were just like at odds and really despising each other. And she was somehow able to like bring them to the table and have them actually go through a vote together and work together. I think speaks volumes of her ability to connect with people and to have a social connection and and speak to people not just about the game but like let's like make a connection here and let's really look past like some some petty issue here and let's really work together so I think overall she was she was great here too like there's there's no way you could pull off something like that if people didn't genuinely feel something for you and feel

like they wanted to work with you. Yeah, I'd say for Andy in when he was still in Gada. I do think it was pretty much I mean, you know, there was the John vote, of course, but then there was only one more vote. And it was that he was on the side of Sam and Sierra, one more vote. And it was that he was on the side of Sam and Sierra, you know, and I do think it was that. But after that, I think he went one step further in terms of his use of the social aspect within his game, because we heard from Caroline in her interviews last week that Andy talked about his emotions a lot and emphasized that he felt comfortable with certain people and this played on other people's emotions and also caused them to underestimate him and it really was using the social game as a weapon yes yes i think that's a great way to phrase it that that's what

andy was doing for sure um now i i think genevieve kind of seemed to view the social game as something to be feared. You know, we talked about that emotional roller coaster, and part of it was having to befriend and deal with players who she knew she would have to try to vote out. Sure. She, of course, openly talked about trying to keep them at arm's length, which, you know, that was an interesting choice in and of itself to not just doing it, but actually admitting it in tribal council. But even with that said, I don't think it ended up

impacting her game overall. I think she talked about it more than she actually did it. Yes. I think there was a natural inclination for people to want to gravitate towards her so she she was receptive even though she didn't want to be that it wasn't a matter of pushing people away and not wanting anything to do with them i think she was definitely struggling with that part of the game but not to her detriment yeah yeah all right well the seventh rule covers idols and advantages in game mechanics and of course the most obvious aspect of this rule is something we already discussed that andy should have considered that rachel could have an idol uh but since we already hammered on that for a while i don't

think there's much more to be said about that to you no we hammered on that a lot okay uh so andy had other interactions with an idol way back at gada when sam was supposed to be babysitting him and he went off and found the beware advantage but decided not to actually take it oh yes yeah at the time i wondered about the wisdom of this decision because it was clear he was already on the bottom so why not go for for it? But as we saw his game progress, and then as he explained in some interviews, he felt like his best path forward was with Sam and Sierra, and losing his vote would hurt his ability to work with them.

I mean, what good is keeping someone around for their vote if they don't have their vote? Right, and that is a very fair point. As for Genevieve, of course, she had the fake idol that she made with Sam and she and Sam and Andy all did a good job of selling that. And it worked. It could have kept working, except Rachel had to go and win immunity. And, you know, Rachel, I know. And, you know, then Sam had to go and tell Teenie about it being fake in order to save himself. Damn it, Sam.

Yes. And then it circles back to the discussion we had in the fourth rule about Genevieve admitting it to Teenie when confronted. Yeah. Go ahead, say it. Damn it, Genevieve. Damn it, Genevieve. Yes. Now, there's just one more thing i wanted to mention in this role i think genevieve purposely

got herself voted out before final four fire making because she knew of course that she had been playing video games instead of practicing and this way it never came into play so no one ever criticize her for that that is a very deep deep accusation i i mean that's a lot you really want to do that because i don't know how genevieve would necessarily feel about that that's that's going that's genevieve i'm still i'm still fascinated that she played that many hours of a video game and didn't practice fire, but I've already complained about that. Yes, yes. All right, so we can move on to Appendix A, which is about the players keeping their end goals in mind when voting,

and we talk about voting out the weak and the strong and the weak and the strong. Now, at this point in the game, players should still be voting out the strong threats who are also weak links in terms of being allies. In this case, I can't really say there are any particularly strong alliances in the game. So that aspect doesn't really come into play.

But obviously we discussed how Andy convinced Rachel that he was the biggest threat left out there. Yeah. Aside from Genevieve, who was immune for that vote. And then, well, she wasn't immune the next vote. So that made things pretty straightforward as far as this appendix is concerned. Yes, I would agree wholeheartedly. Now, I do think Rachel has set herself up well for the endgame.

Which is really what this appendix is all about. If she can get there with Sue and Teenie, she should have an easy victory. Yes. Even if Sam makes it as well, not to jump ahead to predictions, but I still think she'll

beat him pretty handily based on what we've seen. I know we're going to get to predictions, so maybe I'll just hold off and say things then. Now, as for Sue and Teenie and how they've been doing in preparing for the endgame, I don't know who they could have beaten going back a number of votes. So unless they had done something drastically different in the interim, it wouldn't have really mattered. I know the one thing we didn't really mention, but Sue's play of her idol, which is really kind of.

I mean, we didn't mention it for a reason. You know, we could mention it in the post-finale podcast but i think all we'll have to say when we get to uh you know rule seven for her is she kept it secret and then she played it the last time that she got i mean it did benefit you know i'm jumping ahead to next week but it did benefit her because then she could safely vote for genevieve whether or not genevieve had the eye sure sure it's just that nobody on the jury is going to know that's what she did so right yeah yeah she could have used it on teeny and why would she do that i don't know

yeah anyway yes um all right well we can move to appendix b which discusses the jury phase I don't know. Anyway. Yes. All right. Well, we can move to Appendix B, which discusses the jury phase, including preparing yourself for being in Final Three and also preparing the jury to want to vote for you. Of course, way back when we talked about Rule 2, I mentioned that Andy was in a tug of war between that and this appendix. in a tug of war between that and this appendix. And it was a good idea to plant seeds in an influential juror's head and let her become his spokesperson.

Especially since, as he told Mike Bloom, from the perspective of Rachel and Suentini, it was not a masterful move that raised my threat level. It was perceived as a sort of this weak-willed, impulsive flip that handed Genevieve the game. But, of course, the problem was that it presumed she would actually be going to the jury. You know, like we discussed earlier, he needed to find a way to show he'd had a big impact on the game without also showing he'd become the biggest threat in the game at that moment in time.

Right. Struggle is real. Yes. Yes. without also showing he'd become the biggest threat in the game at that moment in time. Right. Struggle is real. Yes. Yes. The tightrope walk is real. Mm-hmm. I also want to mention something that I discussed in an earlier podcast. And this was that I liked Andy saying they wanted to defeat big threats a few tribal councils ago before the final three. And this made a lot of sense when it came to avoiding situations of people talking about the threats going to the end together or something like that. It doesn't happen all that often anymore, but people do talk about it here and there. And there was some mention of it even in this season.

Though, of course, you know, like usual, it was the threats themselves trying to stay in the game. Like, oh, we should all stick together and, you know, go to the end. You don't want to take out the threats early. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then you do. And then you're the next one to go.

Right. Yeah. And then you do. And then you're the next one to go. Right. Yeah. As for Genevieve, well, I mentioned earlier that she acknowledged she had influence, but not power and was just trying to keep going in the game after the Saul vote. She said in interviews that it was a surprise to her when she joined the jury and found out they thought she could have won. This goes back to that self-deprecating thing you said earlier. And that was even though there was all this talk about it coming down to her versus Rachel. So I don't know if she's just naturally modest or what, but it didn't seem like she was particularly doing anything to prepare for facing the jury other than being herself and trying to get there, which was, you know,

about all she could do after the backlash from her big move. Yes. No, I agree very much. All right. Well, with that, it is about time to wrap things up. All right. Well, with that, it is about time to wrap things up. What are your final thoughts on Andy and Genevieve? I find both Andy and Genevieve to be such fascinating players because they played such different games, but became really like on an even playing field in the end which i think is fascinating because you have two individuals that came into this game one being a super fan andy one not calling herself a super fan but like i watched all the episodes so like i was very familiar with it and andy just like i i'm gonna take this moment for everything i can and this could be so amazing it's so great and genevieve being like i played you know 30 hours of video games instead of practicing fire but I can do this so it's like they both

came in with such different like I don't know just approaches to this game and I remember thinking Andy might be a little too much and Genevieve isn't going to be enough and one of the things Genevieve said in her pre-game interviews was that she called herself bouncy and I was like I don't see it I don't know what you're talking about but Andy I saw so much of Andy and so then once the season actually started and we had Andy day three in this meltdown and just all of this horrific stuff happening to him right away I was like here we go Andy's gonna be a lot and genevieve who she wasn't even there and so it really like was reflected in their pre-game interviews i believe to what we were seeing on the screen and then all of a sudden it was like this weird like shift happened and

they both morphed into these incredible players that like we didn't see coming. Andy figured out I need to save my game and the idea that I had for my perfect survivor game isn't going to happen. That got messed up on day three. Now I need to adapt. I need to figure out what to do. I need to save myself and save my game. In order to do so, I'm leaning in hardcore to the perception that people have of me. Genevieve didn't realize what people were going to perceive her as because she was so quiet and because she was present, paying attention, but not trying to make a big scene, not necessarily trying to get noticed until she got noticed. And once she got noticed, as you've already said, once you're labeled a threat, you can't wash that off. And she didn't even realize that that's what she was doing. So much so that when she goes to Ponderosa and people are telling her, you could have won. She's like, what are you talking about? So she's still blissfully unaware of how great of a player she became.

And I think that's just reflective of who she is as a person. She's very calculated. She's methodical. And she works through all of the issues. She sees what she needs to do. And she figures out how to get it done without thinking she needs to be flashy about it. And so even though they played completely different games, they were kind of playing the same game. Andy didn't want to be flashy, but he knew in the end they needed to see him.

Genevieve didn't want to be flashy, but he knew in the end they needed to see him. Genevieve didn't want to be flashy, but they saw her anyway. And so it was just this fascinating thing to watch them both play and end up being seen as such huge threats, but getting there in a completely different way. So unfortunately, they really did kind of cause their own demise just by being so good at playing the game. So kudos to both of them for just being so awesome. Really unexpected players all around. I'm very impressed with you both and such a great time watching you. So thank you so much for putting it all out there. Really appreciate it. Yeah, I, you know, really enjoyed seeing Andy and Genevieve play and both of them had very interesting and different story arcs, like you said. But they also had similarities in some of the reasons they were voted out. Despite the worries

of some players and some viewers, Andy made the right move with Operation Italy to flip and still managed to keep his threat level low in the immediate aftermath. We often talk about the tallest poppy being cut down, and Andy became that poppy. But it wasn't because of the move he made. The problem was he added a bunch of fertilizer and water to his own roots and suddenly sprouted high above all the others while Rachel was trying to figure out who to chop. Similarly, Genevieve was riding along fine until she made the move against Saul. Unlike Andy's later move, hers was never secret, and everyone knew it was all her from the moment she brought it up. As soon as Saul was gone, the target turned to her, even if it was delayed a bit.

So both Andy and Genevieve were labeled as threats, and in both cases, it was due to their own actions. Genevieve made her move against Saul too soon and too obviously. to their own actions. Genevieve made her move against Saul too soon and too obviously. After that, as she said, she couldn't wash off the threat stamp, and she also couldn't get a solid footing in the game. It was only a matter of time. Andy, on the other hand, survived making his move without being labeled as a threat, until he labeled himself that way. It was a combination of his emotions finally getting to him after he made all the strategic moves he did, but kept them quiet to the point that nobody realized it, along with his miscalculation that Rachel wouldn't have an idol. And even if she did, the target would be Sam. It would have been interesting to see if he could

have used those same powers to convince the jury and a final tribal council, because I think he had a good chance to win. After all, he convinced Rachel to change her mind about him. So he might have been able to do the same to the whole jury. He just did it too soon. Yeah. In that way, Andy and Genevieve were similar. Genevieve's big move that went to Rye was taking out Saul Andy's wasn't Operation Italy

But rather explaining his whole role in it And the game overall to Rachel Both of them did it too soon And didn't properly calculate what the backlash would be And that is why Andy and Genevieve lost There we are Yes Now we're going to do like a to be continued there's no end we're just waiting to be continued i will say i was surprised that the episode itself didn't

i i thought especially when they had um i should have mentioned this earlier but uh by the way stick around people because we are going to have predictions uh but uh i thought especially the way teeny was dithering i thought you were gonna go back and forth back and forth yep and then there was a moment where it like went to black for a second uh-huh and i thought it was going to be to be continued. Yeah. Like that's it. End scene. Yeah. And we'd only be talking about Andy today. But so, you know, this splits it up a little bit more next week. Obviously, we will be talking about all of the final four, but better four than final five. However, before we talk about next week, I do want to remind people, in case you've forgotten since the beginning of earlier in the podcast, that the rules we have discussed are available in poster and T-shirt and checklist form.

So go to Rob has website dot com slash YX lost feed. Click on it. And, you know, especially for the poster, get the sale price. That's right. get the sale price. That's right. Get that sale price. And you can also find us on various social media locations. I am at JessicaLewis89 on Twitter and also on Blue Sky. Same thing at JessicaLewis89.

I'm on Instagram at JessicaLewis6789. six, seven, eight, nine, but I am not as socially out there as my co-host here, David Bloomberg, who is all over the place. YouTube, blue sky, Twitter, you name it. He has it. He'll put it out there. All of this content, tick talk. Come on. This guy does it all. He has a link tree. So everyone can find him easily in all of the places that he is because it is everywhere. Yes, you can find me at link tree slash David Bloomberg. There's a dot before the E and the URL there. You can find me more directly on blue sky is at David Bloomberg. You mentioned Twitter.

I'm barely on Twitter anymore. I encourage everyone to get the hell off of Twitter. You mentioned Twitter. I'm barely on Twitter anymore. I encourage everyone to get the hell off of Twitter. But, you know, like I said, I'll still post some links there and stuff. I'm also on threads as at David Bloomberg TV. So, you know, like I said, join us on Blue Sky. It's fun. You also mentioned the video platforms YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram Where I'm at DavidBloombergTV

I post two or more videos per day And mostly, of course, clips from Survivor Especially now because almost everything else is gone Yeah So, you know, we've got this week worth of Survivor We've got next week finale worth of survivor. We head into the holidays and I will keep posting right through the holidays there. You know, it'll, it'll be stuff from the finale, the, you know,

survivor finale until, you know, I run out of things and then we will move to old time survivor flashbacks. I have a whole bunch of them ready. Who knows? One could be Jessica in the Sand Snake. God damn it. So we'll see. You know what?

That is such a terrible thing because it's like one of my favorite memories of my interactions with Jeff Probst. But then also one of my least favorite moments on the show. Yes. Just putting that out there. And the video doesn't have the part that was for your favorite. No, the best part isn't even captured. Gosh, it's so frustrating. So frustrating.

All right, now it's time for predictions as we head into the final four. Yeah. No more voting people out. Just fire making and final tribal council. Which is so obnoxious, but we've already yelled about that enough. So I'll leave it alone. Not really any hints from a preview other than seeing a small portion of the immunity challenge with players crawling under a net as like the first part of it. Last time they had to do that, Sam absolutely killed it.

He did. Then again, if they have to do a puzzle at the end, he can kill it all he wants. And Rachel is going to destroy him. No. Probably. So we don't really know. What we know. From this past episode.

Is we were shown a lot of footage indicating it was between Genevieve and Rachel Genevieve and Rachel so with Genevieve gone it seems like they could have been telegraphing that it was Rachel uh they did have some side plots like Rachel asking Genevieve if neither of us gets to the end who wins and Genev Genevieve responding, it would be Sam. And then we had Sue telling us she was annoyed that Genevieve and Rachel saying they were going to duke it out as the biggest threats. And she wondered, what about the other three people? I think Genevieve already answered that part. At the very end of the episode, Jeff said any one of them could win the game. I'm sorry, Jeff. I don't think they can. And I know I talked about how I was absolutely 100% certain that Erica could not

win the game. But I really think this is a two horse race. Rachel is far in the lead. And then Sam, if Rachel makes it to final three, I think it's pretty clear. She wins. If she doesn't, I think it's pretty clear. Sam wins. I mean,

teeny has admitted in front of the jury to often not knowing what was going on. Right? Yeah. She actually said, I have, I have been here so many times and really, not just like one vote, many votes.

Yeah, that's not a good look. And I just don't think anyone is going to see Sue's game and going, she deserves to win. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree with that. I am feeling for Rachel because I feel like there has been such a focus on rachel and and there has been this weird undertone with sam right we're like sam is always there and sam is always like finding himself you make him sound kind of creepy sam is

yeah not creepy but like but you know it's like one of those situations where like Sam has throughout the entire season they've been giving Sam like content about some things that you're like well that's interesting that they are necessarily including that and and I do feel like we're kind of we're building to this moment where it was Rachel or Genevieve and that's who it was going to be. And so I'm, I'm very curious and thinking maybe, maybe she's not going to make it to the final three and maybe it's going to be a Sam, Teenie, Sue combination. Yeah. I've been going back and forth on this, you know know at first i thought it was just so obvious that rachel would win so of course she wouldn't i mean we've seen the so-called obvious winner

get knocked out in fire making before yes jesse as just one example right but then it would still be obviously sam if that happens so there still wouldn't be any more suspense the only way that there's any shred of suspense is if sam and rachel both make it the final three and even then i still think rachel wins fairly easily um but in that moment so if and i hate that we even have to work through this but if sam ends up winning the final immunity challenge and then has to choose who's playing with him and then who's going to make fire there was a discussion about who was good at making fire and who was not everybody believes that rachel is the best fire maker okay so she is the person that they believe is the best fire maker. But if that's the only way Sam has

to try to get rid of her, he may try to put someone against her. I mean, we know Sue has been working on the fires. That's why she always has soot all over her face. Yes. So maybe he put Sue against her there. That would be interesting, right? And I agree with you.

We have gotten a lot of confessionals from Sam, including stuff we didn't need to. Yes. So I don't know. But we also got stuff about Rachel. Because think back to the players talking about Rachel being a huge threat earlier in the game right after oh yeah when we did with Erica yeah well the viewers were like why are you saying Rachel isn't what you were saying why are you saying Rachel's a threat

right right to my mind there was no reason to show it back then unless it would come to fruition yeah and so because of that I've landed on a Rachel win that is that is what I believe um you know and if that's the case it will be a fun amazing winner's quote uh when she says what we saw in the preview which is my only option is to kick ass yes and I think Rachel will kick ass and I have gone back and forth and I've struggled with who I think is going to win. And it came down to one thing and that was somebody's name. And I'm going to go with Sam just because my dad's name is Sam. Okay. So I'm going to pick Sam because I'm honoring my dad. I think they both are incredible players.

And I think that they have both played phenomenal games, but I just keep, I keep finding myself thinking about Sam because there, there just seems to be this undertone the entire time throughout the season about Sam and just looking at who's going to be this undertone the entire time uh throughout the season about sam and just looking at who's going to be in the jury and you have sierra and you'll have andy and and i and i where their loyalty is necessarily going to fall i just i feel like sam's got a good shot yeah yeah and i you know i'd be happy with either of them you You know, Sam, you know, fellow Chicago suburbanite originally, fellow Bears fan, fellow Illini fan.

So, but yeah, I just have to go with where I think the edit is taking me. Oh, for sure. The edit has lied to us before. It has. I do want to say, if Rachel wins, she has you to thank. I know! Because you've blamed yourself in the past for cursing players backwards in time by predicting they'd win. But you predicted Rachel would be first out. So logically speaking, if you're going to get the blame for ruining people's games,

you have to get the credit for causing someone to win. I love this approach. So Rachel, if you win, you're welcome. That butterfly effect in just happening. We're making it happen. All me,

all me. You're welcome. All right. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people to check out the rjp patron program at rob has a website.com slash patron you can get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons plus facebook groups and discord and of course support shows like ours

and everything on the network at rob has a website.com slash patron and make sure you're subscribed to all the rjp survivor podcasts by going to weknowsurvivor.com, which you can see, you know, right, right down there. Right down there. It, you know, you go to that website, you can pick and choose the Survivor podcast that you want to listen to right there, or select your podcast service of choice to subscribe to, which is the better option. It's a lot easier.

You'll find a lot of great content, like, of course, us, Know It All, the B&B, Survivor International, and much more. All right. And I would like to thank everyone at RHAP for all of the incredible work that you do. Scott St. Pierre, Jessica Sterling, for all of the editing and producing that you do, not only for Why Blank Lost, but all of the content that you just heard David Bloomberg speak of. There are so many options available, so many shows, so many things that you do, not only for Why Blank Lost, but all of the content that you just heard David Bloomberg speak of. There are so many options available, so many shows, so many things that you can do. And they just go above and beyond for their patrons.

So thank you so much for all the work that you do and for the staff and team as well at RHAP. You're just fantastic, all of the work. Thank you, Doug, for all of the beautiful art that you can see in front of you if you were watching the video version. It is fantastically beautiful. And then also thank you to will from america for the song that you hear not on the video version so you see the art on the video version you hear the song on just the

it means you should listen to it and then go back and watch it do both exactly so thank you so much for all the incredible work and david thank you for uh you know getting through this how long not quite two hours we're no we yeah we know we did well we did well through this one uh yes uh thank you as always jessica for another great episode under a different set of very busy circumstances for you um so, we will see everyone in about a week for the finale. Now, just be warned. It might come a few hours or a day later than usual because you know, that's the finale. We'll have four people to discuss. Uh, so yeah. Uh, but once we're there, you know, it won't be too late, just a little tiny bit. So we will see everyone after the finale.

Hope everyone has fun watching it. And I'll see you soon. Bye. Bye. They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how You played yourself and got voted out This is why Blank lost This is why Blank lost Baby, this is why Blank lost