RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why ___ Lost: Survivor 47 Ep 3

Episode Date: October 5, 2024

Many viewers saw ___ get voted out and thought it was simply because she refused to turn on Sol. But the reality is often more complicated than what we see on TV, and it certainly was this time! David Bloomberg and Jessica Lewis had special guest Heidi Lagares-Greenblatt from Survivor 44 to discuss and debate all the ins and outs of this vote – and there were a lot! ___ seemed in the majority socially, so what caused her to be on the outs strategically? Was it her own actions, other players making decisions for their own games, or a combination? At RHAP, we know Survivor, and we know Why ___ Lost.

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. If you lost Survivor and you're feeling down, David and Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how you played yourself and got voted out. This is why Blank lost. This is why blank lost. This is why blank lost. Baby, this is why blank lost. Welcome back to the Survivor Edition of Why Blank Lost. I'm David Bloomberg, and it's a sad week across the Rehapiverse.

Yes, very much so. Yes. Very sad, especially sad for you, Bloomberg. Yes. Joining me as we examine and make sense of it all is, as always, that voice you just heard, my co-host Jessica Lewis. That's right. I am here again, and we have another special guest this week. We do a special returning guest. I know. I know. This is so much fun. Yes. Heidi Laguerre Greenblatt is here to help us out. Thank you so much. I love it here so much.

You can have me anytime because I'm going to make it work. Oh, you always do. And we appreciate and love having you. Thank you. Yeah. So, you know, I mentioned that everybody in the RHAP universe is upset and I, I just never expected so many people to, you know, have that empathy for me losing my winner pick, you know, is that what it is? Yeah. I mean, now we have to make it about you. Come on. it is yeah i mean now we have to make it about you come on okay obviously that's not the reason obviously you know we're all very sad to see asia leave so soon and you know feel that there was so much there but as a fellow podcaster and the one person on this podcast who will probably never get to play um i am proud that she got out there and she made it for a week um and at the same time we still have a job to do here and yes we do you know we're gonna do it the

same way as always by comparing asia's game to my rules for winning that i originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since using all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on tv interviews social media and secret scenes uh ever since using all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV interviews, social media, and secret scenes. The newest version of the rules can be found on the website by going to our dedicated page at robhaswebsite.com slash YX lost feed and clicking on the link bubble for the rules. And we ourselves will be following rule four as we put aside our emotions to

discuss all of what happened i won't be putting aside all of my emotions though because she was your winner pick and i have to i have to give you guff about that i have to gloat just a little bit you don't you don't yes you really don't i really do because we all know how jess winter picks go. They don't go well. And so the mere fact that I get to have this moment, I'm sorry, Asia. I love you. I think you're fabulous, but I do have to rub it in just a little bit. You know, you know what's interesting to me?

Not to her. Yes. Yeah. Bloomberg to Bloomberg. Yeah. For me, it's so interesting because and i was talking to my husband about this last night i was like you know what i do remember some of the things she said when you guys were picking winners and the things she said about me so it's a little bit of

a comeback now even though i know who she is it's like that's why you kind of have to be somewhat polite because i do remember what she said about me but I'll be completely trying to be unbiased with my comments here. So we'll see how this goes. We'll definitely do our best to follow our own rules and not be emotional. But before we get to those rules, we always have some other things to discuss. But even before we get to the stuff about the episode um heidi i wanted to check in with you of course i saw you uh for a bit in chicago at the rjp event uh but that was a few months ago so what's new oh i have been so busy with my my real job my management job so i've grown my team a lot and I've grown a lot at work so they they're keeping

me really busy plus my home my kids um lots of podcast work on my end as well not survivor necessarily related but a lot of that and and just trying to get back to my normal life after my journey which is it's been over a year now. And I still feel like it lingers with you, but I am loving watching everything as a fan, like a true fan again. Right. So I'm just loving that fact for sure. Well, good, good. And of course, you know, we're back to having two engineers on the podcast here, one lawyer. So, oh, oh, okay. I see. Now it's, now it's ganging up on Jessica. Okay. That's fine.

Hey, you had Jake the lawyer on a couple of weeks ago. I did. So I will give this one to you. I will. I'll allow it. So getting into the episode this week, let's start with Rome again I mean after all he does want us to name the season after him he does now some of our Rome discussion will be within the rules itself as you know it pertains to Asia but there were a few other things of just Rome being Rome like of course he wins rock, scissors to go on the journey. And of course, he is the one of the three who actually gets the advantage. Sometimes things just go your way and Rome is riding that high right now. He definitely is riding that high.

And I can appreciate the fact that he is relishing in the moment a little bit because I, I will go out on a limb here and say that it clearly is working in his best interest as far as the game is concerned, right? Because he's leaning in hardcore on all of these things and it is, it is genuinely affecting the outcome of the game thus far. genuinely affecting the outcome of the game thus far and so i have to appreciate his decision for how he's handling all of this because we saw it play out with what happened with asia and i know we're going to talk about all of that but it's working for him and he's owning it he's owning it and i can appreciate that at least because he's he's relishing in all of it and letting us all

live vicariously through him my concern with what you said though is that to me that's a short-term short-term life in this game right i feel like he's putting he's being too in the front and it's like once you run out of that luck then what so right he could but look at what happened with q right we all thought that q was going to be gone and q was going to be gone and q's and q kept sticking around this is very sticking around and we were like what is going on with q how is he still in the game and i feel I feel like that can be a game move for some people. Yeah. And it might work. It might work.

It could be a smokescreen. I feel like it's working for him so far. So far. However, this is beyond the journey. You guys saw the whole situation with the fish, which he is like fishing and then he's like eating it and not really necessarily sharing it. You know, he didn't split it evenly across the tribe.

And I can see that getting into people's heads, even beyond beyond any advantages you have in your pocket and all of that, there is an aspect of living together. And if you're too annoyed, you put a target on your head if you're doing exactly what he just did so i think he to me it's like i he doesn't have a winning strategy even though i agree that the advantages and everything is helping him i just don't see the long term of his strategy how that's going to help him yeah Yeah. We'll have to see. Now, I do want to discuss a couple things on the other tribes. Before we do that, since we talked about Rome at the Journey, I know we have to discuss that journey because at least one person on this podcast

was very upset about it, Jessica. Yeah, very. Now, indeed, there were a lot of people who were very upset that those who went on the journey had to take a risk. And that risk was two thirds against them for the first drop. And I understand it. I've gotten mad about forced risks previously. And if it were up to me, it wouldn't happen. But. There is one thing I want to point out that makes me less upset. I want to point out that makes me less upset. If you go on a journey on Survivor today,

you really should expect you could be forced to take a risk. Oh, 100%. Yes, I agree with that. And nobody made you go on that journey. Right. So the main type of situation I had complained about before was when the player didn't have a choice. Like, okay, you're picked by another tribe or you randomly some other way. And they had a forced risk. That is really the complaint I had. But here, they all had the initial choice. Based on what I saw on Twitter while live tweeting this episode,

I thought that what I was saying now was going to be a super hot take. And then I listened to know it all. And Rob said essentially the same thing that I did. So, but at the same time though, they might have a choice to go on the journey, but somebody still has to go on the journey.

So what if all of them said, no, we're, we're just not going. I mean, what would, what would production do then? Like if they were all just like, nah, no, none none of us are interested in in the risk or the potential reward none of us are going

well that's where i mean we'll discuss something like that once we get to uh rule seven for asia but um i mean that's where your game comes in you, it's just like Rob was wondering on the flip side, how do you stop Rome from going? Like, you don't want Rome to go. He wants to go. How do you stop him? Well, the rest of them just said, no, you're not going. Yeah. And I have heard, I won't say who or which tribe in which season,

but there's ways they have done the random selection that is truly making sure someone doesn't go. And I have heard, so I'm sure if you're playing the game, even if you make it look fair, you could do things to make it look like, oh, the wrong is absolutely not going. Didn't Lauren rig it for herself to go? Oh, maybe I just didn't want to throw names out there well

no she talked about that yeah she did she talked about that yeah i'm glad that it's not breaking that so so yeah i mean it it's part of the game in that case yes if it were a situation where literally no one wanted to go and it was forced risk then yeah then there's a point that wasn't the situation here yeah right but but and that is true but i'm just saying that there is something to be said about being told one of you has to go on a journey so it's like okay well one of us has to go and we don't know if it's going to be a risk reward. We just don't know. And then once you're there, even if you essentially were like, all right, fine. And I know we're going to talk about it with Asia, but fine, I'll go, I'll be the one that goes, you kind of sacrifice yourself and you make that decision and you go. But then once you're there,

you, you don't have another choice because now it's like, well, now you have to do this thing. That's potentially going to be really terrible for you. Oops so sad but you got to do it i just i just don't agree with that at all if you want to have to make players go on these journeys which i i despise the journeys but if you want if you're going to make one of them have to go then it needs to be a decision of their own once they get there about how they want to handle the journey. I just that's just my humble opinion, because I just feel like you're putting players in such a crappy situation because you're like, hey, we're making one of you have to go on this journey and you can determine however you want to send whoever you want to send rock,

paper, scissor, drawing rocks or whatever, because we all know I love rocks. And then, you know, somebody is potentially going to get screwed when they get there. And I just, to me, that's taking away the social component of the game and it's making it more about these things that production is having more control over. Could be argued that the social component is ensuring you don't go if you don't want to go well right but so but that brings me back to my point what if everybody said i'm not i mean i i understand the hypothetical but we haven't gotten there yet there's always

one or two people on these tribes who say i want to go on the journey so you know until they all I know. I know. So, you know, until they all, you know, do a sit-in and say, no, we refuse to go. Hell no. Let's see it. We won't go. Hell no. I want to see this.

You know. I think we talked about that with Rice. Wouldn't it be awesome if everyone says no to Rice when they had the negotiations? And that happened last year. So for everyone listening in the future, say no to the journey and let's see what happens yeah i fully support that yeah now speaking of choices in the journey kyle made a terrible one by not reaching back into that bag a second time after he lost his vote with the first drop because in his tribe he was the only one left out of the vote. He is seriously in danger.

So losing your vote once, you better try to get it back because losing it a second time probably isn't going to do crap because you may not have a second time. Now, I have to ask you a question. If he had reached into the bag and gotten the advantage, does he then get his vote back? Yes. Wait, I thought you if you get the advantage on the second time you get the ball back. I mean, that was the implication. I was having a debate about this online and it is it is one of those situations, Jessica, where if you or I had written the rules, they would be much clearer. I think we could throw her in there too.

Yeah. Well, I don't know if Heidi writes rules like, you know, we used to, you know, most engineers don't write the rules. I actually write some rules. Okay. That's because I'm on the management side. There you go. So if you read it, the implication to me i actually meant to watch this back again and i forgot before the podcast the implication is you get your vote back and you get the advantage okay and so then i'm with you i was was going to disagree to what you said, but now that you're saying that I was, I was to the impression that if you get the advantage,

you still don't have your vote. Like you can steal your vote the following week. Right. But I thought you, you would lose the first one. So that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I'm like I said, if it turns out that that's not the case, well, I don't know that we'll ever know because, you know, they're not going to. It didn't happen. You know, neither of the two who lost their vote decided to go for it. But presuming, you know, based on the context that I saw it in, he should have gone back for it again.

Maybe maybe it wasn't as clear if you know, then that's why if that's the case then i will withdraw this criticism of kyle i think actually maybe as a viewer he's very likable and i think people like him in the island i get the sense that people like him in the island even though he's kind of flying solo now because of his vote in the previous one i think he has ways to turn it around for himself well that's interesting because i had predicted if they went to tribal council again he would not be the target and indeed gabe wanted kyle to stick around and turn on tiana. But then Kyle decided he was going to scheme. And he thought Gabe was shifty and tried to get the others to turn on him,

which I also predicted, although I used the term twitchy instead of shifty. The thing is, Sue was definitely not convinced. So we'll have to put that on hold. But there are some interesting dynamics here. And Kyle did himself no favors by admitting he lost his vote. Yeah. Yeah. And I really do feel like in addition to that and just kind of playing off of it, when you find yourself in a circumstance like this and survivor there, there are times in your game when unfortunately you do just have to take a step back and say, okay, thank you for the opportunity.

And I'm going to take this opportunity regardless of what I think or how I think I can utilize this information to manipulate it to my advantage. You're not in that position, Kyle, unfortunately right now. And so you really just should have taken that as a gift. Right. And been like, okay, good. right now and so you really just should have taken that as a gift right i mean like okay good here's my here's my little you know olive branch that gabe is is handing to me and i will just happily take that and unfortunately he just didn't see that moment for what it truly was

yeah especially at this stage like yeah it's before the challenge it's before anything just say yes you know what it's the ghostbuster rule you's before anything. Just say yes. You know, it's the Ghostbuster rule. You know, if someone asks if you want to be in an alliance, you say yes. Yes. You can always change it later. He didn't have to like immediately turn around. Yeah.

And give everyone a lot of time to think about it. Yeah. I think, you know, who's in a similar situation now, and I know I'm going forward to like next episode, but Saul is going to be in a similar situation now where he may be flying solo here. But I also see a path for him. He has to kind of we saw something in the preview, which seems like him and Romeo are just going to get into it. But it's one of those where it's like, let Romeo be Romeo and you go and stay back and try to say yes to everything that people pitch you. But I do think there's paths forward for both of them

if they play their situation and they're flexible using one of the rules, right? Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, meanwhile, over at Gata, we saw a scene that had some people up in arms from last week's preview because the way it was cut, it looked like Anika was making the accusation about Sam and Sierra dating.

I saw a number of how dare she like tweets and takes on the situation. And it's like, come on people. Remember they frequently take preview clips completely out of context to mess with us. I even mentioned that in last week's podcast. So just some advice to anyone out there who might be doing this. Just wait till you see the whole scene before you get upset, you know. But anyway, so there were people who thought Sam and Sierra were a couple, but they were on the other tribes. And Annika defended their honor.

But here's the important thing. This shows how obvious a duo they are. Oh, my word, right? Annika set their relationship status straight for the other tribes, but still so obvious a duo. And when Annika told them, Sierra said it concerned her because it could blow up their games and she's not sure where they were getting it from well sierra where they're getting it from is you're an obvious duo yeah which is crazy because the amount of time that you would have to make those observations on them and like during challenges seems very little right like to me like i don't remember having a whole lot of opportunity

to really pay that much attention to the people that were standing over there to try to determine who's a duo. Yeah. So, very interesting that both tribes picked up on it. Right, which tells you how obvious a duo they are. Right, exactly. That's crazy.

Exactly. Actually, can we talk about Annika for a second here, too? Sure. Because she was annoying her tribe, just like Romeo was doing. You're a manager, but you're not a project manager, are you? No. Have I been a project manager in my life? Yes. Not right now. I could see what she was doing. Listen, when I saw what was happening between her and Sam, and they show Andy in the background kind of like smiling at the situation, that was fantastic.

That was great camera work right there. And I'm with him. I'm with him. I'm really like, you start seeing that, and you're like, okay, they're bickering. They're kind of being childish about this whole situation. I'm loving everything about it. If I'm Andy, I would have been the same way.

You're throwing in your little two cents, just a little bit. It truly is amazing. You know, Jessica and I predicted her being a project manager would be an issue and she's out there project manager. She really is. And Sam is like

calling her out on it that she just wants to be in charge of everything which former or future survivor players don't do that just don't yeah although she was right about the cutting you know he was just hacking at it because he was mad and she's like yeah you just slice it yeah that probably works better you know it, it's like, ah. But that was a good scene. I really enjoy that. And I must agree with her. The bamboo is terrible.

Okay. I understand. Oh, it is. But they also didn't do what you always suggest, what every survivor player says, who sleeps on bamboo, which is cut it lengthwise because that makes it better. It's not good, but it makes it it better and also do the rotisserie turn you have to just keep turning your body because like all this hip hurts now i have to

flip over and then i have to flip again it's the rotisserie turn you also have to do that when you get to my age just on a regular we put pump froms uh right on top of it and cut some of the, like the core in the middle. Cause the pump from core is like, like the middle is really hard. And that made it better. So we, I slept in on bamboo in my original Tico tribe, but then when we moved later, it's like, it's so much more comfortable to sleep on the sand. So we would just like break up the sand and then make a little hole and just

sleep on the sand so we would just like break up the sand and then make a little hole and just sleep on the sand all right did either of you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we move on to the rules i mean let me look at my nose everything i was worried about i think we discussed oh there was one more so okay um i first of all for the first episode they never mentioned shot in the dark right and then all of a sudden it's like coming into the discussions i know i was questioning if they're even doing it this year right um but we saw how andy was trying to take advantage of it with sierra like oh i'll give you my uh shot in the dark and i am actually kind of surprised it worked because sierra started talking about how oh maybe he is trustworthy and all of that so i thought that was quite

interesting for andy and i like the fact that we saw such a difficult first episode for him and all of a sudden you can see the progressions right like he's not even like nobody's talking about him so the little things he's giving me i'm really really loving the fact that he's not even like nobody's talking about him. So the little things he's giving me, I'm really, really loving the fact that he's turning his game around. Yeah. Well, of course, you know, he saw Emily do that. I think exactly. Yeah. And, you know, Sierra, her big concern was he would panic and play it and they wouldn't have his vote. So it's even better currency when you can say okay here it is now you don't have to worry about me panicking and playing right right um so i think that the reason his name isn't being

mentioned is because um annika and perhaps rachel just assume he's going next and that everybody agrees so they don't have to talk about it, you know? Um, yeah. So. Hey, all they have to do is keep winning and maybe he'll make it all the way to the end and become individual. That's right. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian superstore with PC express shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points.

Visit superstore.ca to get started. All right, well, before we get to how Asia did, we want to mention that the rules we're about to discuss come in a shorter and much more colorful version in poster form. So go to robhiswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed, scroll down to the poster, click on it, order it, and our crack shipping department will get it out to you as soon as they can.

So in addition, you can get the poster on a T-shirt or you can get the checklist on a T-shirt, which I am currently modeling beautifully, of course. I like the color that you're wearing. Sorry, we talked about that at the same time. I like the color that you're wearing. Oh, thank you, yes. So yes, there are a variety of colors.

So yeah, again, go to robhaswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed for all of that of that yeah you know speaking of um t-shirts just saying i might have just uh you got a rock t-shirt oh okay i got a rock on this one yes it's so good rocks rocks seem to be referenced a lot they were referenced a lot last week and so i decided you know what it's about time i just own this as much as i can so yes i gotta rock however i also won myself a t-shirt you did what happened from lindsey last week yes so thank you for proving me right that you were going to play the idol for yourself because you are very

interested in saving yourself. Yes. Yes. Something we'll talk about. I have a feeling. So I have a feeling we will, but I just wanted to put that out there. I also want to be sure.

Okay. Well, Asia started off her interview with Mike Bloom by saying, I just feel like it wasn't as simple as me not wanting to turn on Saul. And in her pregame interviews, she said she knew you can't come into Survivor thinking you know and can control everything. And she had the self-awareness to realize that you could know a lot and, quote, still fall flat on your face. And for that reason, she wanted to focus on social relationships. So that's what we'll look at. How did she do in those social relationships? Where did she have self-awareness?

Where was there not awareness of what other people were going through? Because at RJP, we know Survivor and we know survivor and we know asia and we know why asia lost that's right so the first and most important rule is to scheme and plot and of course we know asian knew this she made a tight bond with saul right away out of the gate and thought she had something with teeny until it became obvious that teeny was connected connected at the hip to Kashan, such that three duos had formed. And unfortunately for her, one of those duos was Rome and Genevieve, who absolutely would not give her the time of day.

She recognized that in other situations, two duos might come together to vote out the one in the middle. But there was just no way Rome and Genevieve would do that. As she told Mike Bloom, anytime she talked to Genevieve and Rome about the situation, it was like, oh, I love Kishan. I love Tini. We would never want to get rid of them. So she had no choice but to go all in and try to win over Tini and Kishan. Under other circumstances, that very well could have worked. But Rome had something that she and Saul didn't have, an idol and an advantage. But that alone wasn't the kicker. Rome did something that we said we thought was crazy at the time.

He shared that information with Tini and made them feel basically like he considered them a second number one. It wasn't just that he had an idol and he was therefore invincible the first vote because that still left Genevieve open. It was that he told Teenie all this information, made them feel like he was going to keep them close. Teenie said all of this in a confessional at one point. Asia probably would have done the same thing in the same circumstances, but she didn't have any bargaining chips

except her own loyalty. Asia could say all the time that she was loyal, but Rome was able to show it. And this leads me to one more thing before I pause to take a breath here, which is a bit of speculation on my part. I was rewatching the clip of Rome telling Tini about his vote steal advantage and Tini then talking about how he showed loyalty specifically to them. I have to wonder if there was one thing

left unsaid, because I mentioned a moment ago that Asia tried to broach the subject of voting out Tini or Kishan with Rome and Genevieve, and they rejected the idea. And I have to wonder if Rome or Genevieve passed that along to Tini, and that's why Tini emphasized how those two were loyal specifically to Tini and Kishan. And this is why that conversation that Teenie and Keyshawn had with Asia becomes so significant because the loyalty was really the biggest component.

I love the way that you phrase that, David, that it wasn't just because he came with an idol and he came with an advantage. He had for sure shown his loyalty to teeny and kishan and that was what they were trying to get out of asia like we want to keep you here we really do but we need to know that you're with us so it wasn't like we want to know that you'll flip on saul it was they want to know that you're loyal to us right because really in that moment if asia understood that there really was no hope because it was you have three duos going on and that don't let me forget i want to be able to talk a little bit about the effect of six players and the tribe and in relationship to that right but that in that moment it's no longer about the fact that you are a duo with Saul at that moment. Unfortunately, you just have to be selfish. You have to be a survivor player and you have to think about yourself in that moment. And it's just unfortunate that that's where you're at. But that was what was happening right then and there. It really was. Prove your loyalty to us. Say to us what we need you to hear because that's all they were

seeking and that's what they were looking for and unfortunately i really do i think it's great that you phrased it that way david because that's really what it boiled down to is that loyalty component yeah and then heidi after you you know uh chime in here i do want to get back to what you said jessica about prove your loyalty to us so yeah okay so i think this one and number three kind of go together for me in the in this episode for asia but in particular on number one i think david said said it earlier when people come with ideas you sort of go with it you say yes yes and i know that she was trying to kind of poke at the situation to see what they would say for her idea but i don't think she was quite flexible and i know i'm

jumping between one and three here but i do that i know but i truly think that she had to go with the flow in that situation and see what happens and i her, the whole scheming and plot didn't work for her on that one. One thing, I mean, maybe hindsight, right? Knowing what happened now, she could have used that information back to Rome and try to break that relationship and try to gain some trust with Rome and go a different way. Because I'm pretty sure that conversation, they told her Rome has the idol, right? We don't know if he's going to play for Genevieve or for himself. So she could have used that information. I know she may be breaking the trust there for Kishan and Tini,

but she had a little bit of more to go there. Granted, I don't know how much time they have after that and all of that, but that conversation was the pivotal moment of the whole episode. Yeah, I think that the conversation based on what we saw and could put together, where they confirmed that he has the idol, was pretty late in the game. But here's

the thing. So this gets back to what you were saying, Jessica, about loyalty. Because what we saw on TV was it seemed like Tini and Kishan gave Asia the opportunity to save herself by turning on Saul yeah and we even saw Tini appearing to steer Rome away from her by talking about Saul being more likely to find an idol but the logic of what they brought to Asia did not make sense in her mind as she was there. And, you know, she noted it in interviews. They didn't need her to vote out Saul. So why even come to her? If you have four people,

why are you telling me I have to vote out Saul? Because they want to know you're loyal. But loyal to who? And that's where she comes in. It's a loyalty test where you don't know the answer because if, if they know that Saul is her tightest ally and they say, we want you to vote out Saul. And she says, okay, I'll vote out Saul. Did you pass or fail the test? Because she's thinking by doing that, you failed the test because you proven you would vote out your tightest ally, which how does that prove you're loyal to them? It just proves you'll turn on them when the time is right too.

Well, and I do think that's a very fair point. And this is what makes obviously playing Survivor so difficult, right? Because you don't know what everyone is thinking and you don't know what everyone's plans are. So this is one of those circumstances where, and I thinkidi was really getting to this idea of you have more information now right you have more information that you can utilize to play your game so if you're going to sit there in that moment and kind of talk through

this with teeny and kishan and and all the parameters of this and you could actually say to them if you wanted to be, and again, this is us sitting on the couch, watching and thinking these things through, that you could say to yourself and even say to them, well, he's very close to me. And so you're asking me to be willing to vote out someone who's very close to me.

And I need to really understand why I have to do this, considering if you really want to vote him out, you've already got four. You don't need me. Maybe that maybe if that's what you're thinking and you're able to formulate that thought at that moment, you could work through that conversation. And then maybe you have a follow up conversation with Saul. Did she go to Saul and say, hey, listen, he does have an idol. And this is the conversation I just had with Teenie and Keyshawn. What are we going to do about it

but again i'm going to go back to the this is the problem with the six person tribe you have six people and two two two is a terrible combination of groupings right when you're dealing with a situation like this if you have 10 person tribe the the possibilities are much more fluid there's a lot there's a lot more wiggle room and things that you can do when you are literally six people and it's two two and two what the hell are you supposed to do with that and i think that asia really talked about that a lot in her exit press is like she's kind of stuck like what am I supposed to do these two don't want to work with me these two are are together and then this is my other this is my other half and where does that leave me so I just

I can't stay on the six-person tribe I just can't and I know Heidi you were on a six-person tribe I was understand it more so I I was on a 10 person tribe. I feel like that's a much better place to start the game. Yeah, I, I, I agree. I think it's harder, but I, I mean, the whole new era, everything is harder. I think the production loves it, right? Because it just makes it so hard. And in order to survive, it's fun. Yeah.

In order to survive the first few weeks, you have to be on point. Like if you are in a situation where you make a mistake, it's very likely you could go home because you have no way of escaping that. And I think it just it's like really, really difficult, which is why I think Rome, it's like I'm here. And he got lucky because he got the idol and he got the advantage but that may not be the right strategy for the new era because if you find yourself in that situation you're probably going home he just he's been lucky with the advantages and idols yeah and I mean you said if you do something wrong you're going sometimes you don't do it I mean we can say something is wrong, having all the information, but in the moment, you

may not know it's wrong. You know, there's there's for the Star Trek fans out there, every Star Trek, you know, officer has to go through a test called the Kobayashi Maru test where there is no right answer. It's just you're evaluated on how you handle yourself in an unwinnable situation. And I feel like that's what I kept thinking of as I was, you know, rewatching and looking at Asia's interviews and everything is she doesn't know what the right answer is. It is. And that's fair. It is a test where you don't know what the right

answer is, because, you know, like she told Mike Bloom, if she had gone to Teeny or Keyshawn and told them to vote out the other one, of course they wouldn't have done that. So, quote, so why am I being punished for not voting out Saul? You didn't need my vote. You could have voted out Saul if you wanted to vote out Saul. And she's right. It was a loyalty test with no right answers.

She had to read minds to see what they wanted her to say well one more thing though um asia and i think in her exit interview she said how she was pretty sure rome had the idol even before the conversation yeah we heard yeah because he was looking looking and all of a sudden he wasn't looking so i think she said something like that in one of her exit interviews but it's so if you're pretty sure that's the situation i feel that's enough information for for you to strategize either with him or against him right well with him wasn't happening i mean we'll we'll get to that more later but maybe that's one of the reasons she's we're talking about her today well yeah but i mean no it wasn't with it i mean she said she tried and like i said earlier they were not giving her the time of day

and i think it goes i'll have more to say about that in the fifth rule okay um and it may be a catch-22 we don't know which happened first the social game or the strategic but um you know it's clear from what she said in the interviews that she tried and he was like stay away um and you know based in part on the preview you know that you talked about already i could see him saying stay away i don't have to talk to you um we don't know that it went down like that exactly but um now another thing that we didn't see but which asia told mike bloom about was that kishan told her the day of tribal council that he believed if they got to four and then had to go to three she would stand by saul and teeny and vote him out now one i don't know why he told her this, but two, she wondered why he would think that far ahead.

I have to say, I can't blame him for trying to figure that out. You know, yes, think ahead. You know, if that's what he's thinking, think the worst case. Like, OK, what's going to happen? Is the decision I make now going to screw me over two from now? And I mean, he is an ER doctor. So, you know, I'm sure part of his training is, well, wait, if I clamp this off, what's that going to do to this other thing that's going on here?

You know, and I, you know, as, as engineers, Heidi can attest to this. You can't just change one thing. You have to think about, okay, if you change this, what's going to happen over here so it does make sense to think steps ahead if you can right but what i don't understand is why he thought he'd be better off with rome and genevieve because if rome is sharing the information with teeny and genevieve is rome's other number one he's still going out if they get down to four and they have to go to three. So I don't know why he thinks he's any better off that way.

Well, one more thing. With Aisha, Sol, Tini, and Kishan, there's four of them, right? If you talk strategy amongst yourself and you're like okay he has an idol whether he plays it for himself or genevieve right and possibly you don't know

if he has an advantage but you kind of assume okay maybe he got an advantage right which i don't know what it is i'm gonna be cautious but he told the advantage to uh teeny and keshan right so at least teeny right so now you like, let's do three on one. Oh, yeah. You still have the numbers. I feel like she could have convinced them, like, guys, you have to understand that Rome has so much power in this game right now above all of us.

We should totally try to break him up now. And I feel like that didn't seem like she tried that much with the numbers. We didn't see it because it didn't matter. But she, you know, she said she tried. And I have no doubt that she did. But what instead she heard was Tini and Kishan said, well, after they vote out Saul, then it'll be the three of them against Rome and Genevieve. But again, this was another place the logic didn't make sense to her why not just do what you're saying and turn on them now

yeah because then you have a harder time with the numbers three and then splitting it just won't work and again we won't you know in another case of mind reading in this case us we won't know what was truly going through their minds until they're out of the game one way or another. But like you said, Heidi, from Asia's perspective also, it was perplexing. Why won't you do this? They gave excuses, some of which I'll get to later. But they gave like, well, he might play the idol on Genevieve. He might use his vote steal advantage.

He might, he might, he might. But in the end- There's still four people, right? Yeah, there was enough to do it right if they had wanted to which leads me to believe they didn't want to for reasons that sure in a little while um now with all that said and despite everything asia talked about in her interviews um there is as as Jessica brought up, the school of thought, and I think you too, Heidi, that says, forget about the future,

agree to vote out Saul so you can make it one more vote. Right on. And then Rome won't have his idol anymore and Asia could keep working on seeing what happens next time. And we often give this advice, get through one more day and see what happens. But from her standpoint, she was also right. They didn't need her vote. Why would they flip back again? What would, you know, if they,

if they didn't need her this time, why would they suddenly flip back to her? Now it could be, Oh, he doesn't have an idol, but in this game, you both know you have to make a decision and go with it. but in this game, you both know you have to make a decision and go with it. Asia felt it was better to try to show she was loyal to Saul and TD and Keyshawn. And she wanted to stay with them. That's not what they wanted to hear. As far as we can tell.

Sure. Yeah. But then why, why would she vote for Genevieve and Saul voted for wrong? Like, because they had a plan so before going into tribal council Tini and Kishan told her okay we agree with you we'll do a three-one split that's a little too late for me well it's a little too late they lied to her I

mean they lied to her face is what happened at that point it's like oh yeah we we agreed to what we talked yes five hours ago sure let's go with yeah i mean there was nothing else you know at that point um now i think from what we saw asia misread the intentions of teeny in particular i cannot think of a reason why teeny would have been pushing rome towards saul and away from asia except to keep her safe but asia can only act with the information she had. She didn't get to see what we saw. She didn't know. I mean, she knew Tini said, I will try to protect you, but she didn't know that Tini actually went out there

and did it. Right. And then another issue with only having partial information takes me back to something I talked about at the beginning of this rule. Asia had said something about Rome being so close to Genevieve and that they were an obvious duo. But if we look at it from Tini's perspective, Rome was telling Tini everything.

So maybe the Rome-Genevieve duo wasn't as clear-cut a situation to Tini. Maybe Tini felt closer to Rome and thought they were in a good centralized position and maybe they are um you know this this also plays into something else asia told mike bloom that she couldn't wrap her head around why they were siding with rome and figuring that the advantages were not enough of a reason and i think asia was partially right. The advantages themselves were not enough, but the feeling that teeny may have gotten out of being included out of being Rome's other number one to steal from a couple seasons ago. Um, I think that might've been, I think that what teeny was, was thinking there is I'm in a perfect spot well right and you also have to

look at the permutations for teeny in that in that situation right because she knows that she has kishan and she knows that she has rome and then if she knows that rome has genevieve then i mean yes there is this as Asia stall possibility over here, too. But like she really has all of the control as to where the votes are going to potentially land. And if you and she she said it herself, I have to make a decision that is going to upset the least amount of people. Yes. And so in in her worldview, she's and then she made a decision that upset all of the rhap universe and it was right so she upset a lot of people just not on the island yeah but so it is one of it is one of those situations where if you look at okay so let's say i do go after genevieve and i keep i keep asia and we keep saul and and i have kishan Now you've upset Rome. And what does Rome have?

Rome does have a steal a vote. So there is some thing that he could potentially do next time, which, I mean, he's only on his own. So how much damage can he actually cause? So she's got to weigh all of these options. And in her mind, she might just be thinking, well, if I do this i will upset saul he is only one person and he doesn't have anything that he can utilize against me he just

we could potentially vote him out if we need to so it's that cost benefit analysis like where am i going to end up and in the end i can still have four people who can work together cohesively and who get along and it's fine. And then I have one that might be upset, but can't really cause any damage unless he finds something. And so, you know, I think that that's probably part of what weighed heavy for her. Yeah. Is what's going to be best for her game in the end, because that's what everybody needs to do when they go out there. They have to figure out what works best for them.

Right. All right. Well, that was a lot on rule one we're only on one yeah we're only we took dips into a few other places but you know um we'll move on to rule two which i i i think will be much shorter um because it says not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret now under normal circumstances one issue we would discuss here is that asia was in an obvious duo with saul but the thing is everyone on that tribe was in an obvious duo right um so with that said it's it's still a bad idea to make it so obvious even if everyone else is i'm just not sure what more could have been done here maybe tried to glue herself to teeny and kishan more but that would have meant abandoning her closest allies so yeah yeah it's not exactly it goes back to what you said jessica it's the six it's not a tenable situation for following this part

of the rule for any of them i mean when you see it happening in multiple different tribes, even though they probably know they shouldn't, you know, I mean, the initial, you know, opening of the first tribe that went to tribal council was two, two and two. Right. And so it's just it just keeps happening that way. Well, and I do think that it happens even in those bigger tribes, because, of course course there's going to be like one person that you gravitate towards but that one person and you gravitating towards each other then you can gravitate towards another two and now you have four and then you can gravitate towards another two and then you can have six and so everyone i feel like is going to have that other half that they feel closest to but when you only have six to play around with

and to work with the permutations are so much less possible and I just the math is just not mathing well well I think the secret sauce behind the six is finding yourself in the middle being the the couple or the or the group because it could be more than two the group to yourself in the middle, being the couple or the group, because it could be more than two, the group to be in the middle, where you are making the decisions so you're not an outlier. And by her not going with the plan with Tini and Kishan, it put her as an outlier rather than in the middle. So I think that the secret sauce really behind the six is never be an outlier be in the

middle or with the majority in the middle right and that's what happened to her in my opinion i mean but from her perspective td and kishan were the ones in the middle yes yes you had roman genevieve out here and her and saul over here and she had a golden opportunity she had a golden opportunity where the middle came to her like go with here and she had a golden opportunity she had a golden opportunity where the middle came to her like go with us and vote against your guy and she chose not to go with the middle so that's I mean that was the problem there was it a golden opportunity or was it just an opportunity to get screwed later you know and that's where uh you know in this game it doesn't matter if there's no later you got to get well right right yes yes um now of course as there is the issue

that we discussed in rule one which is that maybe the duos were not as obviously split if Teenie felt like Rome was including them in his secrets. So maybe it's not quite a 2-2-2 situation as, you know, Asia and Saul were thinking it was. You know, there's more of a fuzzy line, I think, between the Rome-Teenie group there. I really need to see more Genevieve. Give me more. Give me more so I can understand if she's close to Rome.

Genevieve? Is that her name? Yes. Yes. Genevieve. I mean, we haven't heard much from her. No. And I truly think it will kind of fill in the puzzle that we're trying to figure out.

Is she really close to Rome? I mean, what we know. I didn't know it was happening. filling the puzzle that we're trying to figure out is she really close to rome or is like it's i mean what we know no it was happening what we know there was a secret scene where um you know where saul tried to warn rome this was from episode one okay hey people are worried about you running off and looking for idols and this was was Saul trying to be nice to Rome. Rome took it completely the wrong way and was like, Saul is coming after me. And who did he go complain about that to? Genevieve.

And so you know that those two are close. You hear Asia talk about them as a duo. hear Asia talk about them as a duo. And when he got his advantage, he told Teenie and we saw him telling Genevieve. Now, Teenie was the one who explained it all. Genevieve got like two seconds of screen time. I saw someone say we saw more of Genevieve sitting on the sit-out bench during the challenge

than we did any other time. So, I mean, she seems to just be a loyal number. And I do feel like what we haven't seen, but is likely probably happening, just what we're able to put together with Rome and his personality. She is probably someone who is like stroking his ego. And that's why he's willing to share with her

because she's very supportive of everything Rome related which is why he's likely to complain about her when nobody jumps out of the ocean to go start the fire when he's catching the fish yeah he complains to her and I she's probably just being very receptive to him and being very like oh I know rome i see it too and that's terrible and that's all he needs in order for for his ego to then be like okay you know genevieve is is right is is with me and and if that's what she's doing and it's and it's a game move kudos to her for figuring i want to that's that's exactly what i want i feel like if i was there that's probably what i would be doing with him even if he's annoying me incredible and I'm hating everything about the situation you better

believe I'm gonna give him a little bit of a yeah of course I feel like you have more for his ego feel like you had a situation similar to that with uh I did and I work with that and that's probably why I survived above everyone in my tribe. And it's like, it's okay if you're, you just got to play to that. Like, make them think it's his idea. Does he have an ego? Oh, you're amazing. Of course.

Go for it. Oh, you're going to catch 10 more fish. You're going to make fire. I'll make the fire for you. Listen, that's the kind of thing you have to do in this game to kind of be allies. Yes. a fire for you listen that's the kind of thing you have to do in this game to kind of yeah allies yeah so anyway you're saying that we think Genevieve is a loyal member of the Roman Empire I haven't seen much I don't haven't seen much to see if that's what's that's what's happening or not but if I was Asia that's probably what I would have done instead of being annoyed

and just like you know kind of look like I'm annoyed. I probably would have been like, oh, yeah, you're throwing fish on my back. Just I would have been like, oh, well, I think by that point, it was so good. Yeah, it was way too late by that point, based on what Rome himself was saying. But we'll get to that in a couple more rules. First, let's go to the third rule here, which says to be more flexible. And as soon as Asia was voted out, this was the rule that immediately popped into's go to the third rule here, which says to be more flexible. And as soon as Asia was voted out, this was the rule that immediately popped into everyone's minds the most, as I can attest from the messages and tweets I got from listeners. And I do appreciate it.

I was thinking the same thing based on what we saw, but we have to remember that what we see is often an oversimplified version of what actually happened. And that's kind of part of the reason we're here. I had a feeling Asia wasn't just going to sit there and obstinately refuse to vote out Saul. So I was waiting for interviews. And as we heard, there was indeed more to it. Now, I'm sure some people will still think she reacted by refusing or the way she reacted by refusing was wrong and inflexible. But she was doing it for a reason, as we discussed in the first rule. The problem was it's not just viewers who might be thinking she was just being obstinate, but potentially Tini and Keyshawn as well. Because Keyshawn even said on the show, Asia keeps discounting any other options that's really

hard to work with going forward and Teenie said if Asia won't work with me and vote out Saul is it worth keeping her in this game but from Asia's point of view it was Kishan and Teenie who were strangely discounting the other option of voting out Genevieve the same thing you were talking about Heidi she even told Dalton Ross that she said to them, I hear you, but let's explore these options. And they each had their own viewpoints and they could not get them to come together. Asia, or as I said earlier, I think that it came down to information Asia didn't know in terms of what Tini in particular was thinking about the situation. And also in relation to how Asia viewed what they were asking her to do

compared to how Tini and Kishan viewed it, you know, they're like, well, why can't you just do this one thing? And she's like, well, because you're asking, you know know then you'll just say this you know is this a trick question you know so yeah i'm wondering if it would have been beneficial to her to try to have like a separate conversation with teeny alone and i i don't know if she attempted to do that just to to try to get a better read or understanding as to what the goal was I don't know if it would have made a difference or not in her interpretation as to what was going on and whether or not teeny would have changed the way that it was being explained to her but I am

curious if that would have caused any different ideas swirling through her head at that time caused any different ideas swirling through her head at that time but talking about flexibility though if they come we didn't see what you just mentioned that um asia mentioned in her exit interviews right like so i can only go by what we saw so it's very interesting because there's two you gotta play the numbers there's two people telling you to do this and there's two, you got to play the numbers. There's two people telling you to do this. And there's you, one person kind of saying, well, can we do this? And it looked like they weren't agreeing in the conversation we saw. So I feel like if you're going to be flexible, you go with the two, because now there's three people there, right? So it just, maybe there were more conversations that we didn't see.

Well, right. But clearly it was two versus one in that moment where we saw. I mean, from what she said in her interviews, you know, they left that conversation with them saying, well, we'll think about it. And then, like I said, they came back to her later and said, okay, we'll go with your plan, which was an absolute lie. But you know, I don't know what else you can do when someone you know you've presented to them and they're like well we'll think about it but in the meantime they're like

we're not going to think about it we we're just going to go against her at this point um yeah you know i mean and yet she think about it bothers me never leave a conversation i'll think about it because that's a no well but i don't yeah i you're right but i don't know that she was making any progress at that point you know and yes we discussed earlier she could have given up and just said fine i'll be flexible and give up my one solid ally and in some situations i would absolutely say she should have in this case if we look at it from the outside and we presume that teeny and Keyshawn were not actually trying to trick her such that they weren't doing the loyalty test

that she was thinking, then yes, from that perspective, she absolutely should have agreed. Like you said, Heidi to go and just vote him out. But as we've talked about today and many times before, it's a game of incomplete information. Yeah. He did not know what we information yeah he did not know what we knew she did not know what they were trying to get at she you know especially with the the words of kishan ringing in her ears about i think you're a threat to me when we get to four well and now

they say to her we want you to get rid of your closest person. And it's like, well, wait, he said I was a threat, but now he's telling me I should get rid of my closest. You know, just, yeah. I'll give you an example though. Like Kyle went to Sue and Sue was like, Oh, I don't want to think negative. Like it wasn't a yes. Right. To me, that's a clear, like, okay, she's not going with this. So same thing with Aisha. Like, oh, can we? Oh, we'll think about it. To me, that's a no also.

Right. So those are the cues you got to pick up. When they don't say yes, it's very unlikely they'll back it up. And also, like, to what benefit is it to Keyshawn and Tini to be testing her loyalty at this point in the game where they're coming to her and saying this is who we're considering voting out i think in most situations as you've already indicated bloomberg we would say the ghostbuster rule right you say yes you go along with it because you realize and this is what the majority is doing i don't think in that moment that there was any reason for them to be coming to her with this information other than we want to work with you

so we're telling you where the vote's going to fall and so that's right we just want to make sure you're going to be going along with us and she might have read too much into it as far as well if they're asking me to vote out my my closest ally then where does that put me and and I just I feel like in that moment, you're this early in the game. And yes, I know you've got loyalty to Saul. But at the same time, there's literally no benefit for Tini and Keyshawn in that moment to be testing loyalties because there's they have the numbers. So there is there's zero reason for them to be doing that. But from that same standpoint, as she was saying, they have the numbers.

So why are they telling me how to vote? It reminds me of Big Brother, where Big Brother, often in these cases, they'll be like, you know, people will be like, oh, I need to know how the House is voting so I can go on the same side. It's meaningless. You know, if you know, so who cares how you vote if it's a majority situation? Right. But it's also somewhat polite if you think about it, because what happens when you're about to go when when you're discussing voting? Right. Heidi, when everyone is talking about who's going home. Right. There are discussions being had regardless of how many people are saying they're voting for this person. Like, oh, if six people, if you happen to have a big tribe and six people are all saying they're voting this way, maybe you don't need six. But six have said they're going to. So if you want to have a big tribe and six people are all saying they're voting this way, maybe you don't need six, but six have said they're going to.

So if you want to work with Asia, it's better for you to go to Asia and say, Asia, this is what we're doing. We want to work with you because if you keep her out, then she's going to be like, what the hell, guys? Why didn't you tell me? But the thing is, you can tell her without trying to push her to vote the same way. You can say, Asia, we just want to let you know we are voting out Saul. OK, we're doing we're telling you out of politeness. We want to work with you. We're just letting you know.

But they weren't just doing that. They were pushing her to vote out Saul. And that, I think, is probably a lot of what triggered her because, you know, she said it multiple times in all her interviews. Why are you telling me I have to vote the same way as you? Well, right. But I feel like we can. I'm sorry. I'm just I'm really going to lean in on this one because I do feel I do feel like, again, it could come back to the politeness factor because they're trying to also say, well, we want to have a discussion with you about this this is what we're thinking we're thinking about voting out saul this is where so let's talk about this and and her response was

well i think we should vote out genevieve and i yeah and i do think that there was some pushback where she's like what about this idea and i i don't know if they just expected her to just immediately roll over and go whatever you guys want to do is fine but at the same time I do think that they were instead of just because we've said this before right when someone comes up to another player and says this is what we're doing regardless of what you say it's like mandating right and then that person's pissed off because they're like oh I don't even get I don't even get an option I don't exactly they're just telling me what to do so instead they're like, oh, I don't even get I don't even get an option. I don't exactly. They're just telling me what to do. So instead, they're like, hey, we want to talk through this with you. We want to let you know what we're thinking. And then she says,

well, this is what I think, but I'm willing to do whatever the majority wants to do. Kind of like where things didn't settle. She was more like, this is what I want versus what you want, which then puts them on the outs with her because they're like, well, she doesn't really want to like play ball with us. And so I, so I feel like it's, everyone's kind of interpreting things differently, but I do feel like T and Keyshawn were going to her to say, listen, we want to work with you. We want to see where your head is at.

This is what we're considering doing. What are your thoughts? Because they probably also know that she and Rome are not getting along. So this is something else they have to be cognizant of. So there's a whole lot of things at play here. And I do think that it is obviously interpretation and what people are taking from it. But there is something to be said about every other rule

we've ever referenced as far as you know players are concerned like when they come to you and go this is how we're voting and you're just supposed to go okay and and then but no you know so i just feel like this was they were trying to be polite they were kind of trying to talk through it i don't feel like they were necessarily testing her it was more like oh this is where we're at I don't think they were testing her. I do think Asia thought they were testing her. Right. It's very possible.

Yeah. You know, that's, you know, based on what she said and her reactions to it. You know, should she have felt that way? It depends on the other conversations they had. Rule number four. Yeah. Well, and yeah, we are moving into rule number four. Yeah. Well, and yeah, we are moving into rule number four. Yeah, because it gets into the emotions part of it, right?

Right. It tells players not to let their emotions control them. And I'm sure, you know, a lot of people watching it felt like Asia was violating this rule by insisting on keeping Saul. To some extent, I think we've addressed that. I don't think she was so emotionally attached to Saul. I think she was strategically attached to Saul. I think that she had a wrong read based on the objective information that we know. I don't think it was like, I am such close friends with Saul after seven days that I can't let him go. You know, it was a strategic decision. But aside from that, Heidi, how do you think she did with this rule?

With number three or number four? Number four. This is very related to number three, right? Where she clearly is, okay, my ally is this guy. I'm going for it. Where she clearly is, okay, my ally is this guy, I'm going for it. And then maybe what you said, there's a lot of truth in that where she was probably feeling they were testing her, which it gets into that emotion, rather than seeing it logically from the numbers perspective, right?

Because now it's like, okay, it's soul is one. And then I have two people in front of me saying we're gonna vote for soul do I go with the one with me it's only two and I'll go with the two and now we have three which is essentially a majority um I think she played all of that situation in that conversation was very much emotional the other thing that I was gonna say with emotions is maybe related to something we said earlier about the ego from Rome you cannot tell that she's not jiving with Rome right for you to not jive with someone in your in your um tribe especially when there's only six people well five plus you I think that talks to the emotions you cannot let people get to you. Like you cannot be mad. You're like, you have to be almost kumbaya with everyone in order to make people understand I'm

not against you. I can play with you. Right. Because if she's showing that emotion to Rome, Rome by no means is going to want to come to you. So you want to be like friendly with everyone, happy, best friends with everyone so then now you have options around your game and i truly think just by seeing that she was very much annoyed with rome and they were in different sides of the the tribe or the decisions that to me talks about not controlling your emotions during the first week in this game i will let's put a pin in that till the fifth rule because we actually have information that we don't normally have with the player. We have with Asia when it comes to that part. So,

but I, you know, I do think she tried to put aside her emotions and work with whoever she could. She, we know how she felt about Roman Genevieve, but you know, she said in interviews that she tried talking to them about putting aside their differences and working together. But, you know, from what she said, they wouldn't consider it. I don't know what more she could have done in terms of this rule. I, you know, I'm going to disagree with you, Heidi. I don't think it was an emotional decision.

I think it was a strategic one. Doesn't mean it was the right strategic one. I just don't think. It wasn't because she went home. But I don't think it was emotions getting to her. I think it was her logic did not jive up with the situation. Gotcha. We can agree to disagree on that.

I think like there's a little bit of emotion. It's so hard to not play with emotions because you're a human being you sleep with these people you're like 24 7 with them but what i saw with the little fish thing and all of that to me it's like to me that was like you're you know that you have an enemy right there you should never get to that until maybe much later so let's go in and jessica unless you have something for the fourth rule no i think this will go nicely into the fifth rule because i i can i can see the overlap here with what heidi is talking about yeah in regards to the social component of the game because i do think that it is a very hard thing to to do when you are put in a situation like this where here's someone i don't

know anything about and i'm just meeting these individuals for the first time and i have to put on my best face and i have to be the nicest kindest person possible and this person over here is not doing that this person's just being a lot as and everyone was talking about rome being a lot yes and and i do think that that is something that other survivor players can use to their advantage let that person be a lot let that person have an ego stroke that person's ego and play the social game even though you're like dying on the inside because you're like right right and as we get to the fifth rule which reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game um you know asia said coming into the game she wanted to use her personality to connect with many kinds of people

and plan to form relationships to make sure that you know people genuinely liked her without thinking it's strategy but like you said, Jessica, the situation on this tribe was interesting because I do think Asia was doing the right things to be in the social majority. We saw her hanging out with Saul, Tini and Kishan in the water, all of them talking crap about Rome, Rome getting mad about all of them. You know, she told Dalton Ross she felt she got to know Teeny and Keyshawn well and was building personal relationships with them to the point that she was all in on the four. She told Mike Bloom when Rome was gone on his journey, do you know how much we got done at camp? We were moving. We were cooking. We were being productive.

We built a swing. We were having a great time, laughs, giggles. Vibes were great when this man was not at camp. Now, under many circumstances, maybe most circumstances, a group that was together socially like this would also be together strategically. It just happens naturally. And I suspect Asia was thinking the same thing because it makes sense right usually but the thing is that the rule we just discussed says players shouldn't let their emotions control them and that applies to everybody not just to asia but all the other ones

so as much as tini and kishan might have gotten along with asia and saw better than rome if they felt there was a better strategic move for them to go with rome and genevieve it would be correct for their games yes to ignore the emotion and go with Rome, no matter what they thought of him. Right. Because down the road, down the road, if Rome keeps annoying everyone, he's a bit of a smokescreen, right? Right.

But if you keep Asia around and you keep Saul around, down the road, are they going to annoy people? Probably not. Are they going to be more of a of a concern as the game progresses probably you know so there are so many factors that you have to consider when you are making these decisions this early on in the game is where does this put me later on in the game and i i think that that was certainly part of their strategic concern and why they were willing to put aside the okay we're going to play the social game here but we're also going to consider the strategic component of our game as well

i have a question so when rome was fishing in the background because i think they show everyone like you know they were in the water and then he's like back there coming with the fish in his hand was genevieve in there as well in that conversation she was she was up on the beach because she was who he walked up on the beach to complain about that so she wasn't in the water with them i think that's correct yeah i see yeah i see because to the point of little fish yeah i know someone said yeah to the point of playing nice and all of that, I keep talking about Genevieve because I haven't heard anything from her.

But I cannot wait until we get to the much later in the game and she's going to be like, ha-ha! This is Javi playing this guy all along, just hiding behind him because I know he's going to take all the blame. I hope you are right. I really hope you are right. I do not think take all the blame I hope you are right I really hope you are right yeah I do not think it is but I hope you are right that would be fun to see yeah now we've so we've talked about uh in here uh Asia's relationship with Saltini and Kishan but as we've been kind of hinting at throughout, there's also Roman Genovese. For Rome, as you said, Heidi, it was very clear she was super annoyed.

Yeah. As she told Mike, do you understand how annoyed I have to be to not only express it, but vocalize how annoyed I am? And while I have not met Asia personally, a number of people who do know her expressed on Twitter during the episode. Like I saw tweet after tweet come across my timeline. Like, holy crap. I have literally never seen Asia get upset in my entire time knowing her. Yeah. And so time after time.

So that's something we don't normally get. We don't have people who know these players personally ahead of time. Yeah. And so, you know, she wasn't confronting Rome directly, but it's safe to say it was clear how she felt. You know, she mentioned in interviews trying to talk to him, but it turning into him interviewing her and bringing the conversation back to himself. But she added. That's what you

play nice. Well, I guess she could only do it for so long. But, you know, she saw him talking to other people. So she said, this must just be a thing with him towards me. And as she told Mike, clearly from the confessionals, it is a me thing. He had something against me. I don't know what it was. And so once again, I don't know what it is either. It's been speculated. I heard someone say maybe, I mean, we know that in addition to him cramming all the survivor seasons, he also crammed podcasts. He also crammed Reddit. It is possible he knew who she was and just didn't say anything.

And that's why he was like, I'm going to get rid of her. Now, do I think that he would have said that in confessional and we would have seen it? Because I think production really would have loved that. Yes. So that's why I'm not buying that particular idea until there's some evidence for it. But other than that, we can't read minds. I think based on what he said, he had this dividing line in his head. There was the people

who were with him and the people who were against him yeah uh you know like the old uh question from russell to sandra are you with me are you against me yeah i'm against you russell um and you know like when he ate the extra fish what he said to the camera was basically i don't care she isn't even in alliance. It wasn't like we're all on the same tribe. It was she isn't even in my alliance. And then there's also the way we saw him and Saul interact. So, yeah, you were either with him or against him. And if you were against him, he did not care. He was not concerned about having any sort of social relationship with you from what we saw um but it's also a chicken and egg situation yeah did did rome decide they weren't worth dealing with the same way because they were outside his alliance or did he form his alliance at least in part based on the interactions with people i will have to wait for further interviews to find that out we don't know

which happened first i agree i think to be fair i'm sorry jessica to be fair to asia right we saw how he's like i hated that tk guy or whatever it was that he said. He didn't even know the guy and he already didn't like him. So maybe there's some truth there where he came like, I don't like Asia from the get go either. Right. So there's, there could be some truth behind that for sure. And I'm curious, I can't remember how if Asia spoke about Rome pregame, if there was anything that indicated,

because I would imagine that Rome probably was a little more boisterous pregame. And I, I'm just trying to remember. It's crazy, right? That's just, some people have this air about them. But, or yeah, even more importantly, did Rome say something about her? I did not crack that. Now I do. I'm sorry to interrupt you. That's OK.

But I do feel that seems like something Mike Bloom would have brought up since he put together the whole like article on this person likes this person doesn't like this. I feel like immediately he would have he would have picked up on that and posted about that. Yeah, because I'm curious. Now I'm going to look at my notes from as we sit here. I'm going to pull up my notes to see if there was anything about it. Because I just feel like that might be something that, you know, pregame does a lot of things to people.

Oh, yeah. And they sometimes can, you know, make determinations and decisions about. Actually, that played a role in my game let me give you my example and he's my great friend danny um from my season who was my ally for most of my season um danny in pregame he was doing pull-ups oh everyone is like trying to hide their strength and like trying to hide what you're doing so you don't give anything out and here he is doing pull-ups in the pregame and we all can see it so in my head i was like if i'm in the tribe with my with that guy i'm totally gonna be the ally of that guy because he wants the forefront he wants to get the attention so for me i i'm with

you like there is definitely something that rome could have done in pregame that you already kind of see and sense who's who he is or who he's gonna be in the game yeah and rob rob has talked about even back at the amazon i think it was was it roger or someone else i don't remember who but one of the older guys in the tribe was upset because someone kept walking up and down at night and, you know, waking them at night or something like that in the pregame and pissing him off. I got to get rid of this guy. I think I'm telling that story, right? I can't remember. You know, that's Rob's story, but now there is one more

person we should talk about here. Someone that you've brought up a couple of times, Heidi, because, you know, we keep forgetting. Genevieve. Asia said that like with Rome, she tried to have conversations with her, but they just stayed surface level. So much like the viewers so far, Asia didn't get to know her either. She did confirm to Rob that there is a person named Genevieve on this season. Oh, gosh. Genevieve on this season. Oh, gosh. Genevieve. That is so funny. Watch it.

And when she's going to make it to merch and she's going to be like, ha ha, I mean, this is my plan all along. She's going to make it really fun. Rome's making the final three. Okay. I'm just saying. I mean, it's happening. It's happening.

All right. Well, the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat. Obviously, anyone who isn't with you on a tribe of six is considered a threat. Is against you. Right. And is considered a threat. So from that standpoint, Asia and Saul were both threats for Rome and Genevieve.

The real question is where they stood with Tini and Kishan. We talked earlier about Asia mentioning that Kishan told her that he worried that she would vote him out once they got down to four if he and Tini stuck with her and Saul. And while Asia was surprised he was thinking that far ahead, we discussed how, you know, at least from my perspective, it's something people think about. And and and you know that did indeed sort of make her somewhat of a future threat to him also asia mentioned to gordon holmes that she worried teeny knowing she's a podcaster could be seen as a threat to teeny i was gonna say that you know even though to asia it's a fun hobby, not like she's going around and playing reality games all over the place. Right. That part. I feel less likely.

Sorry to contradict you before you even had a chance to say anything, Heidi, but I feel it's less likely to have had an impact in the decision. But. I will say that I do think other players will tend to view anyone who is in that position talking about the game and presumably having studied it as being possibly threatening though I would say teeny knowing about that was equally as threatening which was why teeny wasn't bringing it up you know to protect themselves um the difference is it was teeny's perspective we're looking at here. You know, another way Teenie might have felt threatened was they knew Asia's secret. And Asia might have felt that that was a threat and turned on them. Much like some people watching. Yeah, because some people watching Big Brother 25 thought Jared should have turned on Izzy to protect the secret of him being Sheree's son.

If I had to guess, I suspect probably none of this was really going through Teenie's head, but I wanted to bring it up because it's possible. No, I think that's a fair point because there is something to be said about, like, I know someone's secret. So you go to that person and say,

Hey, I know your secret, but I'm not going to say anything about it but now you've told that person they know my secret now i want to make sure they're not going to tell anybody so now i need to vote that person out and i again i i don't think we saw asia formulating that type of of thought in relationship to that conversation but uh the fact that teeny had been thinking about that gave her a little bit of i think maybe an edge because she had already had that conversation with herself pre-game and talked about how i i i don't want anyone to know that about me but i'm going to tell. And it is an interesting step in that direction because it can be, it can be a problem if you're going to open up and, and make an admission like that. So teeny, I think in that moment was being vulnerable and saying, Hey, I'm,

I'm going to let you in on something I know about you in hopes that it wouldn't come back to bite her. And we didn't see Asia processing it differently but I think that that's a very interesting idea that could have come from that conversation I'm very curious and maybe you can answer this if you heard it before or if you saw it in an episode and I missed it so many times when you are introducing yourself in the first episode right you're like I do this I do that I don't know ifo said all the things he does i had to google it to see exactly what he is it says eat sports commentators right and if asia said details behind what she's doing oh no she did not reveal she was because i mean that's not her regular job her regular job is with computers i I think like IT for HR or HRI.

But teaming you, it makes you wonder, did she reveal this to anybody else? Is there more conversations? Because the reason I say that, and this wasn't shown even for my season, but we had an NFL guy, Brandon, friend of mine now, right? As soon as you see him, even when we saw him and never talked to him until we merged,

we're like, he's totally an NFL player or basketball player. Cause you see him and his tattoos are so beautiful. You're like, that's a guy that is definitely an athlete. Even though half of the people didn't believe him. And it's one of those- So that's what I need to do for people to think I'm an athlete is get tattoos. Well, you have tattoos, beautiful like art. And you're like, those are expensive, nice art on your arm.

That's how seriously that's what we talk about him. Right. But that's the kind of thing you're already kind of thinking, strategizing behind him. So when we saw him that he did the balancing one of the balancing challenges so well and he's probably over 200 and something pounds you're like this guy is legit from athleticism right so it puts a target so talking bringing that back into here if there are some discussions that are happening that maybe we didn't see that talks about who they are you know like asia being part of this could have put a target on her back for some of them. It's very interesting.

I would love to hear from some of the other members of that tribe to see if they talked about what they do in their real life, because I think it does put a little bit on, on the back. I mean, people don't say they're lawyers because the lawyers go out quickly or whatever. I wasn't a podcaster when i went out so no one knew that i was lying but she put herself out there as as potentially getting busted right off the rip yeah i mean i from everything we saw she did not give that information away

and neither did teeny because like teeny said both in the pregame and to asia um if i tell other people that reveals that i'm so deep into this world that I could recognize you on site. Yeah. And so Teenie didn't want to give that away because it makes them look like a threat as well. But there's a

but there. If you're going to be a survivor and you know you're like, somehow you get a call and you start going through the casting and you're not doing your research with the podcast and everything that's happening you're not doing your homework so i feel like there's could be more people that know about asia that you might that may be saying it out loud you'd have a good excuse as to why you know like i'd listen coming out here i started prepping and I was watching podcasts. Right on. You know, there's this podcaster that just happens to be out here. That's certainly, that's something you could have worked into the conversations for sure.

I think could have if Teenie needed a reason, but I don't think Teenie needed a reason. I think Rome was taking care of that aspect. Yeah. He wants everything for himself. So overall, I don't think being a threat was a big issue for this vote. I think there were plenty of other factors, some of which we'll discuss. And now we'll get to appendix, or in a minute, we'll get to appendix A, which, you know, I think there are more there, some of which we'll discuss. And now we'll get to appendix or in a minute we'll get to appendix A, which I think there are more there, some of which we've hinted at already. But before we get there, we do have

rule seven, which covers idols and advantages and game mechanics. And now Asia, of course, didn't get any trinkets because Rome hogged them all. But there are still things to discuss about how she dealt with that situation. But even before then, she had a decision to make related to game mechanics just a few minutes after

landing on the beach. Many of us wonder, why would you volunteer to go compete for tribe supplies? And like everything else, there was a bigger story here that wasn't shown she didn't just suddenly say i'll go instead she wrote in interviews that nobody on her tribe wanted to do it just like a journey you know jessica um she said saul was willing if they knew it was going to be strength but jeff was like i'm not telling you anything and Keyshawn kind of half-heartedly said he could, but they didn't know what they were getting themselves into. So Jeff was harping on them, like pick one, pick one. And Asia stepped up because as she told Mike Bloom,

whether it's strength or whether it's a puzzle, I felt confident going into it. Don't do it. I didn't know that. I really thought she just volunteered. No, exactly. You know, that's the way it looked again, you know, but she said, little did I know it was going to be finding a needle in a

haystack. Um, again, it does come down to, you know, yes, they could have done this to me, Jessica, this is worse of a forced situation than the journey because Jeff was like, you have to do it right now. Right, right. And but this so it's like right now someone has to go and which I again, I don't appreciate. I don't like this because this is the other part of what makes Survivor Survivor is the social game. And when you are removing one person from the one from that start from that beginning you are taking away so many possibilities from them because and i know that i don't want to read into too much

and i know this is something that came up in some of the exit press but tk went and she went and tk went home and she went home and she didn't think that it necessarily affected her social game but I do think that there's something to be said about missing out on those early moments yes because even though she had she had Saul that reached out to her right away and Teenie reached out to her right away there's still a huge gap in time and there are moments that she is missing out on. And if Rome is someone who is going to become problematic to you and you don't have those initial moments of like, OK, this is who Rome is and this is how we're going to have to be working with Rome. Then you come into already seeing that developed. And and I really do feel like she's put at a detriment at that point and so i don't think they should be forced to go on a any type of journey right away or do this sweat

versus savvy crap right away and and split people i just let them just don't do that i that's just me that's just me oh they start digging i feel again the six they just make it harder these little challenges on the very first day it makes it harder i i totally for anybody who's listening who's going to survive or you're going to apply in the future never ever volunteer for the first one don't let them pressure you to go first i don't think that's good for your game. I'm 100% with what Jessica said. Don't put yourself there. It does not matter. It really is a detriment.

The first few hours is when you start making those bonds and alliances, finding common things amongst yourselves and things like that. It goes like, yeah. It is so important for you to give yourself that opportunity to be there if you can and have the power to say no please never go there because i really i'm with you i didn't even make the connection of the two of them that you're right um the two that went there are gone now from the game right and there may be something to that and TK did blame that partially in his interviews, whereas Asia said she didn't think it mattered.

Now, I mean, she would know better. She was there. But it's kind of a butterfly effect. Not the type we have, Jessica. But, you know, we don't know what would have happened because we don't know who would have gone. You know, maybe if they drew rocks, Rome Rome because he always seems to get the winner Rome would have ended up going but then again maybe he would have refused because he was like I'm not going but if

they all refused they still had to come up with something let's say they draw rocks and he ends up going well now that dynamic instantly is much different exactly Exactly. And so would Genevieve have said, well, let's wait till Rome gets back and make it. Or would she have, cause she was the, we, we may forget this, but she was the initial one who said, let's make an alliance of four. Yeah. While Asia was still out there and teeny was like, well, I want to wait and see what's up with Asia. Right. And so,

I mean, personalities are going to work out the way they work out. I, I, if Rome was not the one to go and Asia was not the one to go, do I think they would have been best buds? No, I still think you probably would have had the same issue. Right. I feel like it still would have been best buds no i i still think you probably would have had the same issue i don't right i and i feel like it still would have been the same issue but it's also a matter of you pre-game you kind of judge people and you look at what you think or you try to determine what you think they're going to be like based upon what you've seen and then when you actually start playing the game you find it almost immediately if your read was correct or if you were way off. And, and I had, I had both of those things happen with various people on my

tribe where I was like, wow, this is not what I was expecting at all when I first saw this person and, oh, this was what I was expecting. And so, you know, it's one of those situations where those, those moments are so significant when you are first just hitting that island and kind of doing your introductions and meeting people and to miss out on it it can certainly i think affect someone's desire to want to be with you more so than this person over here because even i mean you're talking seven days. So hours matter in a, in a circumstance like this hours really can make all the difference. And if you don't have those initial hours with your group,

then you've missed out on a world of information relative to a game that is only 26 days. Yeah. And I think anyone who watched these episodes and who is going to be out on the next, well, not the next season, the next season that goes to film is probably going to be like, there's no way in hell I'm doing that. So Jeff, Jeff better come up with another method because I think everyone's going to be like, are you kidding? No. The first two people who volunteered uh were voted out right away of course we're not doing that right you know not going so for survivor 49 jeff better have another method there i think the format may stick may stay um but but i could see how they could really mix it off right like i Like, or all of them say,

no, you got pressure. Let production select you. And that will bring something quite interesting. Right. Something we haven't seen. Make it a little fairer. Like,

okay, we're going to have three of you go in three of you stay. Yeah. Like half and half. I like that. Something like that, where it's not one person being singled out. Yes. Right out for this.

Yeah. So now there was also a repercussion from that trip that was not discussed on the show, because Asia told Rob that Genevieve, and therefore probably Rome, suspected that she had some sort of advantage from having gone there. Now, I'm not sure how much of a role if any that really played into things um you know maybe rome got it in his head that she had something and that's why he was like we must get rid of her but i feel like we would have heard something about that yeah especially when like teeny was talking to rome and saying you should be, we should be more worried about Saul because he can find stuff, you know, then I feel like Rome would have said, responded, yeah, but what if,

you know, what if Asia already has something? So I, I just don't feel like that ended up being anything. Yeah. But it is also something for people to consider when you get sent out on something like this, that people will make up stories in their head. Honestly, I was surprised. I should have mentioned it in our first episode. I was surprised there wasn't anything for that reason. But it's still in the back of your head that she could still have something. It has to be in your head, even if you don't discuss it or whatever you have you don't forget those things those are important aspects that you had to remember so right now what may have played a role was asia taking the lead in tracking rome the idol

hunter um as we saw she caught him getting a clue yeah and she told Tini, Kishan, and Saul. And they went out to find him. And then he went diving armpit deep into the well. And, you know, they kept searching until they found him. And he basically ran away. I'm sure her being the lead investigator on this was not lost on Rome. And he did not appreciate it. on this was not lost on Rome and he did not appreciate it. I also think that would have bonded those four more tightly. You know, we already talked about them being bonded socially. Right. If Rome had not come and told Tini about everything, as we discussed earlier,

Rome really countered, whether intentionally or unintentionallyome really countered whether intentionally or unintentionally really countered that four-person bonding by going directly to teeny and involving them yeah and that's very fair but i i'm with you i think her at least from what we saw in these episodes you can tell that asia was going strong at that situation right from the first two episodes so it was she had something right you know she was like oh oh here's something he's out looking and and you yeah and you lean in on that because you're like oh this is great information yeah yeah and maybe that's what broke a bit of their trust

so i don't think it broke their trust i think it bonded them until he rome kind of trumped it you know it's like but what i meant was more with rome that's where rome can probably see that she was leading the other pack into getting into him and that might be that might play into why he also felt like he needed to tell people to find allies right so it's one of those or it's like that whole thing the way it was handled probably didn't help asia into the situation of what just happened to her yeah now asia tried to deal with rome's possession of an idol by working around it, especially after Tini and Kashan confirmed that he had it. But that duo kept talking about him possibly playing it on Genevieve. And the part I'm not sure about here is whether Rome ever actually told them this or they

were just saying it for a reason that, you know, they couldn't try to counter the idol. Like, we don't want to do this, so we'll just tell her that, you know, they couldn't try to counter the idol. Like we don't want to do this. So we'll just tell her that, you know, he said this. That's exactly what I think they were doing. We didn't see him say it. Yeah. And you know, Jessica, you and I were very certain last week and you got a t-shirt out of it. There's no way he would do it. And I maintained that certainty into watching the episode. Asia herself said in

interviews that she had the same thought, but even so, she knew that she had to do something to ensure it and also try to convince Tini and Kishan that they didn't have to worry about that. So once they came to her and told her they were with her, a.k.a. they lied to her face, she made two moves to ensure that Rome would use the idol on himself. One was that she told Genevieve she and Saul had gotten a third person to vote about, oh, the person who agreed to vote with me, you know, I hope you still do that. Hoping to really drive home the point to Rome that was really directed at Rome. Hey, you've got to play the idol on yourself. And these were both very good ideas if Keeney and Kishan hadn't already made up their mind and were completely lying to her but i have an option that i think she should have

utilized and she didn't decide to okay if she thinks that they are both voting for genevieve right if she if this is where her mind is at, so there's two votes on Genevieve, and Saul has to be also voting for either Rome or Genevieve because there's the split, right? So if the plan was they're voting, so 3-1-1, right, where it was, and then so whoever Genevieve and Rome vote for,

which is going to likely be Saul or Asia, she could have said, you know what? That means it's a two to one vote if I play my shot in the dark and take a chance. And then I maybe I'm safe because I play my shot in the dark. And even if I'm not, it's still two, two, and then it's tied. And then they got to go to a tiebreaker. And, but I just feel like, why not just take the chance at that point? If you do believe that the vote is going to be two to one and you have a chance to save yourself, play your shot in the dark. That's very interesting. I didn't even think about that, but I like it. I mean, she addressed addressed she addressed in her interviews why she didn't

play it that she felt her vote was needed in this in this whole thing and the other thing is again explain that to me well i that was one part i didn't clip from the uh thing but um um but i know that she addressed it i just don't remember what it was she did she did talk about it but yeah the math again isn't math aim yeah i don't know so if they said they were doing three votes on genevieve and one vote on rome yeah then it would have been two votes on genevieve and if rome and Genevieve vote for let's say her it's what Jessica was talking about and so then who gets so then it's two two and then it leaves it in the hands of Tini and Kishan yeah which is fine yeah if they're willing to do it but remember this whole thing for her if you go back to it and i don't remember if this

was what she was talking about but um this whole thing for her was the loyalty test aspect and if you say if you tell them i need you to vote with me we need to make it a 3-1 and they say okay and then you don't vote and use your shot in the dark. You have just shot. You haven't just shot in the dark. You've shot yourself in the foot when it comes to loyalty because you just said. Sure. But, you know, but but at the same time. So let's work through this. OK, so if they still went along with the right, we're going to vote for Genevieve and it's the two to one. So then when they go to the re-vote, now you've got you essentially have a three to right if they're going to be like, well, we're going to keep Asia.

And I think she would have a legitimate response at that point to say, listen, I I was concerned with myself. Sure. And so I played my shot in the dark. I still think that she would have the ability to to respond to that because if she plays her shot in the dark and then all the votes are read and she finds out ha you weren't being truthful to me and i've and maybe she gets lucky with the shot in the dark so she saves herself and she finds out that teeny and Keyshawn are not on her side. Okay. Just by saying, oh, go ahead.

I just quickly checked the interview. The one factor we forgot about was that they knew he had either a steal a vote or an extra vote. And if he has that, she needs to have her vote. If he plays an extra vote, especially, that makes it a 3-3 tie with her vote. If she does the shot in the dark, she's dead. But there's permutations there. One is by her saying that she's going to play the shot in the dark, it's already in their mind there's a chance she doesn't go home, right?

But let's say they don't even care about and they go with it maybe in their minds is the way for them to utilize to let uh rome burn that boat whether he's gonna do it or not we all know he's not gonna do it unless he knows he's gonna help himself right so i truly truly think that would have that would have played out beautifully if she would have worked with that. And I'm also curious because I know that Rome came back and said, I lost my vote. And then he told Teenie, no, I didn't actually lose my vote. I had to steal a vote. And so I don't know if Asia actually knew that he had a steal a vote. I don't think that was ever confirmed.

From her interview, it seemed like she knew he had something. He had something, but also like. I mean, we saw Saul sitting there talking to him where he was going on. Oh, man, I lost my vote. And Saul is just like, you are so full of crap. I see right through you. But again. But you don't know what it is. Right is the this is the other part of it too and this i just keep going back to just to

the numbers there's no reason at this point in the game for him to steal a vote with the numbers being what they are so for asia to think well what if he does a steal a vote it's not going to matter in the grand scheme of things because if if genevieve and rome are together which they appear to be and then if there's a chance that uh she's got you know teeny and um i'm sorry no and and kishan are all so then the number it doesn't matter he doesn't need to steal a vote they already have they have four it doesn't matter he believes that but right and you're, because I was saying the same thing. I was saying, well, why would he ever use it? But we don't know.

And, you know, just people having those sorts of things, as I'm sure you know, can strike fear into you. Yeah. And so, yeah. You know, what's your better shot here? Do you want to play? Do you want to give away your vote vote it's kind of like we were talking about with john in the first episode where he was like well i felt i had about a 20 chance of convincing sam and we were like you did not have a 20 chance right sure you know is there you know what are the odds here is it better or worse than one in six that he will use this advantage it's Rome I would not put it past Rome to use everything he has just to make a big moment or romant as we said last episode um I think I don't I think don't you think that Romeo felt I'm not Romeo Rome that like teeny and Kashan could

probably tell he felt comfortable with what was happening like he's feeling he's killing it I think so but how do you yeah I mean it's not as simple as it's not as simple math as we thought before I went and looked. Yeah, there's math plus trying to figure out what's going inside Rome's head of all. Yeah. And clearly she didn't know what was going on inside Rome's head because she couldn't get in there. Right. And so. If someone tells me, yes, you're voting. I mean, yeah, Heidi, you said it. Were they lying? Were they telling the truth?

Probably lying, but I don't know. You know, it all comes down to the percentages again. Yeah. I think if she had gone either way, I think it would have been okay. I don't think one, you know, is particularly beneficial over the other. And it's possible. She says, I'm going to play the shot in the dark. And then they're like, no, no, no, we're going to go with soul. You know, we're going to go with you on soul. And then the whole thing.

But I do think the dynamics would have changed. Like if she would have used that line, everything would have been different. But also she didn't even, she didn't even need to tell them just go to tribal council and let them believe i think it would have been worse if she well it couldn't have been worse i i you know if she had told them ahead of time that wouldn't have it wouldn't have worked but if if you're in tribal council and you're like trying to sell this it's going to be three one one and you're and you're doing everything you can to like lock it in that he's gonna play his idol on himself and this is and really where i'm at and then you go up there and you throw your shot in the dark i don't know i i just feel like it's it's

a chance worth taking i think she could have used it she probably but at that time in the state of that conversation she probably didn't even think she was the one going. She probably, but at that time in the state of that conversation, she probably didn't even think she was the one going. But I'm with you. Like at the end, if you have any sort of doubt that it could be you, you throw everything that you have at the moment. At that moment, all she had was the shot in the dark. But like you said, if you have any sort of doubt,

but she also had the doubt that could he play his advantage? And if he plays his advantage, am I going to shot in the dark myself out of the game because we've seen that happen too where someone throws away their vote and they get sent home yeah because of it listen if asia's listening to this yeah this game is hard like oh my god there's no shame at all because Cause I really, really think she was in a tough situation and even within the rules and everything, this game is very hard. We're just talking through it here. Yeah. We know everything and we still don't have the math behind us.

Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, let's move on to appendix A. This is already our longest of the season, as I expected it to be. Appendix A is about the players keeping their end goals in mind when voting. And we talk about voting out the weak and the strong than the weak and the strong. Often at this early stage, the quote unquote weak part comes down to challenge performance. But Jeff asked Saul near the beginning of tribal council if he felt this vote would be about keeping the tribe stronger or about alliances. And Saul said it was about alliances and he was right because of course that should always take precedent as we

saw last week when they voted out TK and that brings us to a topic I've already mentioned a couple times what was Teenie's best move because Teenie said on the show I think you quoted this earlier Jessica I have to make the decision that's going to guarantee me going further in this game. And that, I think that was the real key point in all of this. It turned out that Rome sharing his idol info and advantage info with teeny did solidify an Alliance and it overcame the RHAP alliance because yeah if if Tini and Kishan had truly wanted to turn on Rome and Genevieve they could have done a split on Rome and Genevieve and then broken the tie by voting out whoever Rome didn't play the idol I'm presuming they were telling the truth that

Rome threatened to use it on Genevieve and yes there was the risk he'd use the steal a vote too. But like we just talked about, was there any reason? Yeah, probably not. But we also don't know. Maybe he said something to make it seem that way that we just didn't see, you know, that they didn't bother with because he didn't use it um but putting all that aside both teeny and kishan are smart enough to figure this out and all of this tells me all those options out there and it's something i said earlier it means they didn't want to turn on rome and genevieve you know that is who they wanted to go with and And, you know, we can't read minds. We've said that multiple times, but we can read action. And my best guess as to why Teenie wasn't as worried about the Rome-Genevieve

duo is because Rome keeps telling Teenie everything. So Teenie probably feels like Rome's most trusted ally, which puts them in a good spot if teeny turned on rome to vote out genevieve teeny would lose that middle spot they would lose the information they've been getting and not to mention this is the guy who already got two advantages so he would probably get back from tribal council immediately run out into the jungle to find the re-hidden idol yeah yeah yeah i mean it's a really tough spot to be in when you have all of these things happening around you that you can't necessarily control and teeny just found herself kind of in the center of everything and when you are the the deluge for the information and everyone is coming to you and wanting to share with you

that really gives you a lot of power in the game because you really do get to decide how this is all going to end up even though Rome is the one that's finding these things teeny really is the one that's saying this is what we're going to do with all of this information and I do think that there is a lot to be said about keeping those people who are with you, with you. And even though Asia and Saul could have been with her as well, it is a difference because when you have someone who really, I mean, Rome is like her other number one. So she technically has two number ones, whereas Asia has Saul and then sol and asia are coming to teeny and so i do think that there's a different feeling there and a different level of loyalty and it really does

boil down to how teeny saw her game progressing with these options that were before her and unfortunately for asia she just she wasn't another number one for teeny yeah and and teeny is such in a good position with all the information you yeah it doesn't matter so much to have all these advantages if you have the information and you have power uh behind the information because i truly think she can work with rom you to do certain things together she doesn't them, but they can do a lot of damage. She's in a really good position. And being in the middle there, when now that we know Aisha is gone, Sol is going to be looking for anybody at this point, right?

And knowing that probably Romeo will be doing this because we saw it in the preview, but only because we know how he's been dealing with the alliances. He's very one-sided teeny could capitalize from either way from both sides so it's a little bit sad that asia couldn't you know didn't get that information super sad for her but teeny is in a very good position in this tribe for sure yeah i just think that teeny and kishan thought they were better off with rome

and his bag of tricks and if they make it to merge with him, he, and they still have that advantage. He may use it as a group. Absolutely. If he fails, well, then he can be seen as a shield.

You know, you, you both talked about that earlier, the smoke screen, you know? Yeah. So either way, it's kind of a win-win for TV to pair up, to keep Rome around yeah yeah but I

look you said something that is awesome I cannot wait for them to start looking again for the idol right like we know like if you use an idol something comes back it will it will be very interesting to see what happens depending on who finds it again I bet that's what that clip is for it's possible I bet Saul is like i'm gonna go out and look for the idol leave me alone and and i bet that's where rome is saying i don't have to leave you alone it's not in the rules i'm a survivor i bet that's what that comes very likely very likely and i i actually hope saul finds it because then it kind of changes the dynamics. So, oh, give it to me. I want it all. Now, before we leave this appendix and indeed the rules overall and move on to our

final thoughts, I know our listeners don't need this reminder, especially those who are two hours into this podcast, but it's something I'm going to say anyway, maybe pass it along to other people. But it's something I'm going to say anyway, maybe pass it along to other people. As much as some of us are Asia fans, we have to remember everyone out there was playing their own game and doing what they believed was best for themselves. And I have heard that people were sending hate messages to Tini and Rome in particular. Don't do that. Yeah, stop it. They were making their own moves. They were playing't do that. Yeah. Stop it. They were making their own moves.

They were playing their own games. Yeah. We like Asia. We don't like that. Asia is gone, but you have to allow people to play their own games. Don't send hate. Yeah. Yes.

We're human. We're human beings. Yes. Yeah. These are all real people playing a game for a million dollars and that's what we have to remind ourselves yes but that's what's happening so you can't be sending hate to people it's not okay not okay all right well it is time to wrap things up so Heidi what are your final thoughts on Asia oh I said it earlier I'm gonna in case. Aisha, there's no shame in the way you went out.

This is a very difficult game. She was given a set of cards that were very, very hard for her. So I really hope that she gets all the love from everyone because she deserves it. And I also hope that everyone else gives loves to the rest of the tribe, because this is a game. We go there to have fun, have an experience and hopefully win it. But guess what?

Only one person wins it. And that is okay. That's part of the game. We are human beings. I'm so sad to hear there's some hate out there. I got it myself and it was like, all I'm giving is love to people. Listen, we are human beings. So I really, really hope to end,

at least from my end, give love to everyone. Give love to Asia. I love her. I met her and I loved everything about her. So I really hope I get to see her soon as well. All right, Jessica. All right. Well, I do feel like Asia, as Heidi said, was handed a very tough stack of cards in this game and i really truly believe that sometimes there are parts of the survivor universe that are outside of your control and one of those things that is outside of your control is who you end up on a tribe with right you don't know who you're going to be with

and you don't know if you're going to jive with this person or not and you don't know how that person is going to affect your game and i do feel like asia found herself in a very very difficult situation because not only did she have a rome she also had a rome who had a genevieve and then she had a rome who had a teeny and then she had a teeny who had a Genevieve and then she had a Rome who had a teeny and then she had a teeny who had a Keyshawn. And then there was she and Saul. And so it puts you in this spot that you really can only do so much with. And I take it for me. I'm someone who. I drew a rock, right? I said it on my shirt. I got a rock. She got a got a roam and unfortunately it's just let's put it in the next shirt there are just things that are outside of your control and yes

we make decisions just as i made a decision relative to going to rocks but there are things that lead you to that decision right and there are only so many things that you could control and you can't always control what other people in this game do and when you have a group of people that are group think and this is what we're going to do and this is the decision we're making and in my just in my case it was we're going to go to rocks because this is where we're at and in in asia's world it was well it's really you or saul and we have to make this determination. We have to decide what we want. And Tini was really the one that was controlling all of it. And so unfortunately for Asia, she found herself in a circumstance that she could only do so much with.

And we've gone through the permutations and the what ifs and the possibilities and could have been this, could have been that, but this is what she had and this is what she had to play with. And so Asia, I feel for you. I understand. Again, you went in there with a plan and you tried to carry it through and you did what you could with what you had. And unfortunately, sometimes the survivor gods are not on our side and we don't what we want. And so unfortunately, as I said, you got to roam, I got to rock and it sucks. And I'm sorry. Well said. Well, I mentioned in the intro to the rules

that Asia came in knowing how the game could trip people up and that's why she wanted to focus on social relationships. From everything we saw, it appeared she really did a great job with most of them there. The problem was there were still, as you said, Jessica, some things outside of her control that even tripped that up. She had a group of four people who seemed to all get along great.

They shared opinions on the way Rome was acting. But while social relationships can and often do lead to strategic ones, sometimes there are other factors that overwhelm them. And that seemed to be the case here. sometimes there are other factors that overwhelm them. And that seemed to be the case here. If the decision had just been based on social game relationships, I think Teeny and Keyshawn would probably have had an easy choice. But other factors greatly complicated things.

Teeny and Keyshawn seemed to try to give Asia a way out or a way in, but she was in a predicament. She couldn't read Teeny and Keysishan's minds. Were they giving her, as she described it, a loyalty test? Or did they really want to work with her and have her vote the way that they wanted to, even though they didn't actually need her to do that? She made her decision and stood firm on being loyal to her closest ally, hoping that would show that she'd be loyal to them as well. But that was not what they were looking for in this situation. As Asia told Rob, it felt like it was out of her hands

because it was up to the middle duo of Keyshawn and Teenie. And like I said in Appendix A, Teenie trying to figure out which move was best for them was the key factor in the whole decision. That's right. In the world of TV and movies and plays, writers are given the advice to show, don't tell. The rock group Rush even had a song by that name.

Some of the lyrics say, who can you believe? It's hard to play it safe. But apart from a few good friends, we don't take anything on faith. There were no good friends on Survivor and nobody could take anything on faith. There were no good friends on Survivor, and nobody could take anything on faith. Rome was able to show his loyalty to Tini by telling them about the beware advantage clue,

the box, the idol, and the vote steal advantage. Asia could only tell. And that wasn't her fault. She just had nothing she could show with until they went to tribal council, where she could show where her loyalty went to tribal council where she could show where her loyalty was with her vote but by then it was too late the votes were cast and that is why asia lost oh sad sad you love asia i mean she's part of the family she was part of a family before she's more legit part of the family now hey does that mean i'm not a legit part of a family before. She's more legit part of the family now. Hey, does that mean I'm not a legit part of the family?

No, she knows what happens behind the scenes to really now know what it is like to be there. So, and she was hungry, I'm sure. Yes. All right. Well, before we get to our predictions for next episode, I want to remind everyone very quickly here that the rules we just discussed are

available on poster form, poster on a t-shirt form, and checklist form. I think you said something about the cracked delivery department or something. What? Yes. What does that mean? You asked me that the first time I brought it up. And I forgot already. Oh my my goodness we're gonna have to have a discussion on offline about our crack so anyway go to uh go to rob has a podcast sorry rob has a website.com slash yx lost feed to order all of those um otherwise uh jessica how can people reach oh well you can certainly look for me on twitter i am at JessicaLewis89 I'm also on Instagram at JessicaLewis6789

and I've said this before I steal most of my Instagram content from David Bloomberg because David Bloomberg has an insane amount of social media presence but before I talk about him Heidi is that your Twitter handle? It's everything everything handle

Heidi Lagares and that is Twitter Instagram and pretty much everything so you can find me by Heidi Lagares so definitely follow me send me messages send me messages about today did you like did you not like what what I said because I would love to talk more

oh I love that and David Bloomberg we know loves to talk right and we know would love to talk more. Oh, I love that. And David Bloomberg, we know loves to talk, right? And we know he loves to talk online in every social world that exists online. And so he has a link tree that allows you to connect with him in all ways you can imagine. So David Bloomberg, why don't you tell them about your link tree? Yes, you can find all my various accounts through my link tree at link tree slash David Bloomberg with a dot before the E in link tree. Or you can find me directly on Twitter and blue sky is at David Bloomberg on threads is at David Bloomberg TV. And at David Bloomberg TV is also my name on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok, where I've been posting lately over the past couple of weeks,

like four videos per day, sometimes five. Yesterday was five. Right now, of course, the clips are mostly from Survivor and Big Brother. Big Brother is coming to its end in about 10 days. But, you know, it'll be filled with There's other shows like The Traders Canada The Circle, which also just ended The Anonymous, which has a few weeks left The Summit You know, I'll have some from that And other shows that are continually

Popping up as well In addition, make sure that you're Watching or listening to the Big Brother Version of Why Blank Lost As, you know Big Brother 21's Ovi Kabir is my co-host there. We just recorded an episode for the fifth place person a few hours before recording this one. So it's already out there,

already available for anyone who wants to watch it. We have a little bit more overlap before I'm done doing double duty there. But I am also co-hosting the Tradar podcast for the Traders Canada season two, which just had its second week. And I was on there hosting with a special guest, Sam Smith from the Traders New Zealand season one.

So you could find that anywhere. Search for Tradar. That's T-R-A-I-D-A-R. So, yes, as as you said, I am, you know, busy everywhere. Yes. Busy all over the place, etc. Everywhere. etc. But I'm not too busy for predictions. In the preview, we saw Rome seeming to be, as we said, I mean, kind of a jerk to Saul, who, you know, asked for a minute alone and Rome said, no, he doesn't have to. We don't know what leads up to it. I suggested earlier, you know, maybe he's searching for an idol um and we know that things can be massively out of context as we saw with the salmon sierra stuff um on the other tribe uh apparently there's sue and blood everywhere again completely i know what is this all about

yeah i mean she could be cutting up fish or she could be trying to find Gabe's re-hidden idol in a bucket of red paint or something like that. We've seen that before. Yeah. So who knows? She could be like a hive spreading blood all over herself, you know, needing to do that. So yeah, we really don't know.

None of this is much to go on. No, helpful. Exactly. So basically, pulling thoughts out of thin air, I'm going to say Tuku loses the challenge and goes back to tribal council. Kyle has no vote and was already trying to flip things on Gabe after Gabe had thrown him a life preserver, as we discussed earlier. Sue is almost certain to tell gabe about that if she

hasn't already and you know gabe obviously won't be very happy about that so i think they're just gonna take the easy path and vote out kyle yeah he's strong in challenges but they'll probably be like he's trying to turn on us we don't need that and if they lose again then they'll vote out tiana very interesting yeah i don't know what about you jessica i am just feeling like it's gonna be the yellow tribe that's losing i just feel like we we got a lot of interesting segments with them this past episode and there was a lot of building of this animosity between sam and annika and i just i really do feel like that's going to kind of be put to the test because also we have to go back to all of the andy content that we got right where it was like so heavy andy the first episode and now he's kind of in this redemption phase. And so I feel like this is just kind of feeding into that narrative.

And I think it's going to be Annika. That's my, I was debating. That was the exact thing I was debating with was going that route. You know, like she stole my thunder. So I feel like I got to come up with a different one. That was your fault. You had the opportunity to jump in. And you said, Jessicaica what do you think i never thought she would say exactly the same you can agree with me that's okay well but i could come up with an alternate plan because let me say what i was going to say the same thing with

uh as jessica i was going with a gata tribe and i was gonna say anika i feel like they showed us this in this past episode for a reason because they're building for what is coming so i was going anika as well but i could totally see the tuku tribe also losing um i think know, uh, Gabe played the idol and all of that. I think Gabe, I think Kyle is going to get out of the hole personally. I, maybe because I'm biased, I want him to get out of the hole. I think Gabe could possibly be the one going home. Um, he's kind of turning against some of his members, the members of his own tribes. He's showing no loyalty to them.

And somehow I feel like that's going to turn back and you know go back to him and he may be the one going home next okay all right so there we have it three different possibilities there um so you know as we wrap up i want to encourage people to check out the rhap patron program at rob has a website.com slash patron uh and also make sure you're subscribed to all of the rhap survivor podcast by going to the newly updated website wedosurvivor.com where you can find your podcast service of choice and you know make sure you get all of the survivor content on rhap including of course us that right. Can I thank people now?

Yes. I never, sometimes I'm like, okay, I think he's done. I would like to thank everyone who does the editing for not only Why Blank Lost, but all of the content that you see on the RHAP page. Scott St. Pierre, you are fabulous. Jessica Sterling, you are too. And all of the team that works

with these two editors and producers, we appreciate all of the work that you do. Again, not just for this show, but all of the shows that works with these two editors and producers. We appreciate all of the work that you do again, not just for this show, but all of the shows that you can watch, listen to. But mostly for this show. Okay. Mostly for this one. I agree. That's fair. That's certainly fair. So thank you for all of the work that you do.

We really do appreciate it, especially for our show. But anyway, so Heidi, thank you so much for joining us. This has been lovely. Thank you. Thank you, so Heidi, thank you so much for joining us. This has been lovely. Thank you. Thank you. We really love having you. It's always so much fun. And thank you listeners for hanging in there for two hours and 16 minutes.

Now going on to 17. We appreciate you so much. And David Bloomberg. Thank you for losing your winner. Oh. Oh. I love you, but I mean come on David is always giving me so much

guff because I'm so terrible I would never do such a thing I don't know where you're getting that from oh okay I believe it's all recorded if we really want to go back and find it you go find it then Jessica got a rock and she got a Romeo.

So yeah, Rome. Yes. Oh, I keep saying Romeo. I know. Oh, Romeo, I love you too. I miss Romeo. She got a Rada, she got a Rome. Yes, yes.

Thank you, Heidi, for coming back to have some fun with us again. And it's always great to have another engineer as we try to figure out the math here you know and and the lawyer was doing more math than we were i don't know what's going on i love it um thank you jessica as always for another great episode next week we will be back with liz wilcox my Woo! My friend Liz! So, yes, we will be having a lot of fun with that.

You know, again, Heidi, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. So until next week, we will see everyone. Bye! Bye! You're a lost survivor and you're feeling down. David and Jessica will turn it around. Bye. like last baby this is what like last