RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why ___ Lost: Survivor 47 Ep 4

Episode Date: October 12, 2024

David Bloomberg and Jessica Lewis welcome special guest Liz Wilcox to discuss what happened to ___ this week! It’s good timing because in Survivor 46, Liz put a lot of work into molding what others thought of her, but this went wrong for ___ in a number of ways. The episode made it seem like Genevieve decided to turn on him because he used her name as a decoy. His interviews shed a different light, but opened up an expanded view into the way he was playing. We saw Rome as the chaotic player, but was it actually ___? At RHAP, we know Survivor, and we know Why ___ Lost.

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David and Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how you played yourself and got voted out this is why Blank lost this is why Blank lost oh baby

this is why Blank Lost. Welcome back to the Survivor Edition of Why Blank Lost. I'm David Bloomberg, and I'm 45 years old. Just like Sue. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. I am 45 years old and there's nothing wrong with being 45 years old. You just blew it because I was going to introduce you as my 35 year old co-host, Jessica Lewis. I'll take it. Thank you. I am 35. Yes. And considering I still get. Well, we'll just edit out that part where you said your actual age.

I know. But I do still get ID'd when I go and buy some certain type of beverages at times, which is quite fun. No, I don't. I do. And my family thinks it's great. So anyway, but I'm not the only one who's here, David. You are not. As our video viewers can see, we are extremely

thrilled to welcome our special guest, Liz Wilcox. What's up, friends? I was going to say years or more from your age, but that would make you like a child. Yeah, well, I was going to say if Sue is 45,

I am a rumored billionaire yeah I mean Sue there's something to those rumors yeah Sue is older than I am one of the rare cast members who's older than i am one of the rare cast members who's older than i am yes and

sue you look like you're in great shape you look good i'm sorry you don't look 45 um now maybe to the 20 year olds who she's playing with yeah why do Why do they know the difference? You know, I don't know. It's like mom's age. You know, that's that's what they think of. But I just thought it was fascinating that Kyle was so like, so great since he was 45. And I'm like, what? What did 40?

When did that become like a special thing? Oh, this look at her. Oh, she's 45. Oh, that's so great. Like, come on. 45. 45 is is young. So, Kyle, don't be. Oh, she's 45. Oh, that's so great. Like, come on. 45. 45 is is young. So, Kyle, don't be.

Yes, it is. Yeah. I mean, it was like, oh, look at you. Like, you don't have a wheelchair pushing you around. She said she was 45. And look at the woman. I mean, she's. I thought that was quite strange.

Quite strange. And so you look great. You look fantastic. that was quite strange, quite strange. And Sue, you look great. You look fantastic. But I do think that that was a strange kind of choice to make. But regardless, I get it.

I understand. Well, you know, she wanted to lie to make herself look like more of a threat. Right, Liz? I don't know. And I feel like I have no comment because I also was telling all sorts of lies out there to throw people off but I feel like the thing about Kyle is he was already like in the tone like I'm pretty sure he said something about grandkids and then she said she was 45 and I'm like oh sis I I think it was reversed I think he said something about grandkids afterwards which implies to me that she has talked about her grandkids

which you know yes you can have grandkids at 45 you certainly can oh yeah she did you're right and I will say my mother became a grandmother at age 36 so when she was 45 she had a 9 year old grandson

wow it's certainly possible, but I just feel like the shock and awe of someone being 45 and just kind of impressing Kyle so much that they were not in a wheelchair or needing to be like taken care of. Okay, Kyle. 45 is not that bad, all right? Yeah. Sweet baby, Kay. So besides that, even, this was one heck of an episode for us to discuss.

It's fantastic. Even now, you know, two two days later still an amazing episode this was probably one of the first episodes i think in a very long time where i was giddy watching it i was like i i finally felt like we're getting back to the survivor that I used to really love where it really is underhanded and like people are playing the game and I just I'm gonna drop a name I'm just gonna say it Russell Hance is kind of like you know that that kind of you know play that we all like yes where we we all kind of cringe but at the same time like oh that's so good you know, play that we all like, yes, we're, we, we all kind of cringe, but at the same time, like, Oh, that's so good.

You know? So it's like, I just, I loved it so much. I enjoyed it. It was fantastic. I can't wait to talk about it. So anyway, I'm just very excited about this particular episode and my boy Rome. Yes. I also am excited about this episode. I was on the edge of my seat. I was like, oh my gosh, I really have no idea what is about to happen. This is, yeah, it was very like giving of old school. People came to play. came to play. I think it honestly was the best episode of the new era. Like 46 could never like this was so, so good.

Yeah. Sorry, Liz. This was on a different level for sure. It really was. It really was. I was thinking about it and our episode four was Banu. It was like, basically we could have just skipped that episode. Well, we would have preferred if we had skipped the previous two episodes, which were a bit overloaded. Yes, very overloaded.

But, yeah, it was interesting reading and watching Kishan's interviews afterwards because he provided some good additional information, but he also added insight that I'm sorry to say made me think about his game less positively. I do think that this particular episode really highlights why this podcast is so significant,

because unless you read all of the and I'm not just saying this because I'm selling why blank loss. But unless you read all of the exit press, you are going to be left wanting and a little bit like confused and not truly understanding how we find ourselves with a Keyshawn vote out. But I so this is like the power of editing. Right. the Keyshawn vote out. But I so this is like the power of editing, right? We've talked about this a lot on this particular podcast where they don't always

show you everything because they want to keep it interesting and keep people guessing and not necessarily know what's going on. Right. And so I do feel like

this is why you need this type of podcast because it does rely upon the representations that are provided by the players and then all of the additional information that we're able to put together. So I think that as I was reading the exit interviews, I was thinking, ah, well, they left that out, didn't they? Now this makes a little more sense. So, you know, I do think that there's going to be a lot of things

that we can clarify. Yeah. Yeah. And we will do that by following the same path. We always do comparing Keyshawn's game to my rules for winning that I originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since using all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV interviews, social media, and secret scenes. The newest version of the rules can be found on the website by going to our dedicated page at robhazwebsite.com slash yxlosspeed and clicking on the link bubble for the survivor rules. Now, before we go any further, I do want to mention a programming note. Normally,

I would mention this at the end, but I know it's hard to believe some people don't stay all the way till the very end. Yes. I'm pissed. Yeah. The next episode will be delayed, probably won't be posted until I'm hoping Monday morning. My younger son is getting married on Saturday. So I'll be a little busy this coming week. Yeah, just a little bit.

I hope everyone's ready for the big day. I don't know that you're ever ready till it happens because, you know. Well, that's true. You know, who knows what could happen at my wedding. Like my mom forgot her shoes and someone had to run back and get her shoes you know oh my uh so it just you never know uh yeah that's fair we'll find out where we believe we're as ready as we can be all right well good luck i hope it all

thank you um now before we address how kishan did in terms of the rules, we always have some other things to discuss from the episode. But before we get to those, I wanted to check in with you, Liz. Now, I, of course, met you and we got to hang out in Chicago at the RHAP event. But that was a few months ago. And, you know, not many people on RHAP might know what you've been up to. So what's new? You know, just been making money, basically. You know me.

So what's new with me is I, after Survivor ended, I actually bought a house. This is like my, I don't know, it's turning into my office, but it came with like some boyish wallpaper. But anyway, I'm very excited to buy the house. But I have to tell you, the timing was a little weird because I promised my daughter if I win Survivor, we'll buy a house because I lived very nomadically the first like five, six, seven years of her life. We traveled in an RV. We always rented fully furnished homes. And so I started searching for this house. You know, we started the paperwork for it and she was so convinced that I had won.

She was like, oh my gosh. Cause I hadn't told her cause she's little and she's a big mouth, right? She would have told everyone like no matter what position I got right so I didn't tell her I mean she knew I was skinny and haggard and unwell when I came home so she just figured I won she was like wow look at mom she's a skeleton but she got that bag this is great you know uh but anyway bought the house and that feels really really good and i use my survivor money to furnish it and other than that i've just been yeah thank you i've just been honestly i

rested i was offline for about three months after the finale uh because i guess you know like me and not getting applebee's a lot of fans were pissed about me i don't know so i just got off the internet for a while the shock wave through the internet for a bit you know i we left the island knowing like okay people will either love liz or hate her like i we would we would say that even on the island they they'd be like, oh, Liz, there will be no one who doesn't have an opinion about you. So that, I mean, I guess that's how my tribe mates were too. They either had, they had very strong opinions about me.

But anyway, I've just been resting. I'm finally getting back into work and update on my allergies. I'm really trying to get to the bottom of them. And they do seem to be actually like alleviating and not as many like wild reactions. So I feel really good. Yeah, I'm feeling really good. Yeah. So hopefully they'll be gone by the time 50 rolls around. So you can go out there and eat coconut and you know that's so interesting people always ask me like oh would you play again and I said yeah of course I have a giant ego I'm pretty

sure I said that in like episode three but I don't know if they would ever invite me back simply because of the allergies I do remember the last uh conversation I had with Dr. Will the doctor on site for our season he said I, I'm not going to fake an accent. But he was like, you know, Liz, we didn't think you'd last very long. And I took such offense. I was like, what do you mean? Why would you have me on the show then? That's crazy.

And he was like, no, no. I mean, because of your allergies, we were really thinking you would drop out any second. And I'm like, well, you clearly don't know me. Like I will never, that never came across my mind. Never would I have ever quit over food. It's a million dollars. I think I've made it clear. I love money.

Like I would never, I would never and i did find it fascinating yeah when i heard about all of your allergies i'm like what is this poor girl gonna eat when she gets out there so impressive truly impressive that you were able to to just fight through and say you know what it's about the money i love that i love that thank you thank you so much so what they didn't show on the show, of course, like I support three households. I really have come from nothing. I just told people I was a millionaire. I'm actually a single mom. I support three households like I, you know, I could have used the cash flow. But what are you going to do? You know, instead, they turned me into an icon, honestly. So I can't even be mad about it. I love that. I love it. And you appear to be an Applebee's mascot. So this is fantastic.

Yeah. Shout out Applebee's. Shout out bourbon burger. I hope you went to Applebee's a lot. I hope you went there a lot. I went there. Well, when I got home, I actually was really sick and I couldn't really eat for almost a month. And then my appetite came back and I was ravenous and I ate Applebee's.

I went on a road trip with my daughter and we ate Applebee's probably 20 different locations across the country. Because I was like Applebee's crazy when I came home. It was just like, first bite, I'm going to go to Applebee's tonight. Did anyone recognize you from any Applebee's crazy. When I came home, it was just like, first fight. I'm going to go to Applebee's tonight. Did anyone recognize you from any Applebee's? Uh, actually one, uh, time Ben and I been from my season and I went to Applebee's together and, uh, there were these people that walked in and they were like, no way. Oh way oh my gosh Liz is that really you you're at Applebee's like it was like I mean can you imagine you know a few weeks after seeing that on TV you literally see the person eating I would totally send you a bourbon burger too I would have been like right over there at that table right right get that lady some beef. Have you seen her when she doesn't get her Applebee's? Get her some food.

Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, the Applebee's thing, it's been really fun speaking to David's question of like what I've been up to. Like the Applebee's thing really has been this moment and it's been fun, you know, to be a part of it. I've been at Disney and people getting on a ride and somebody screams Applebee's. And, you know, I've been at restaurants and gas stations

and people just hollering out their windows, Applebee's, Liz, you rock, you know, things like that. So that's been so, so cool. And it feels even a little like reminiscent of those old school days where they had like those moments that just stuck in people's minds. And that feels amazing to be a part of. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Excellent. That's great. Shout out to Applebee's.

Shout out Bourbon Burger. Shout out to Applebee's. Shout out Bourbon Burger. Shout out Jeff. For making it all happen. All right. Well, now let's discuss some things that happened this week. But I want to focus on particularly things that came up on last week's podcast. So first, I want to point out that Jessica, you and Heidi were probably right about the choice on the journey last week.

I and many others had presumed that if Kyle or Annika tried their luck again after losing their vote, they would regain their vote if they got an advantage. But upon our discussion where you and Heidi were like, what? No. I rewatched it. I discussed it further with Jeff Pittman of True Dork Times. He was the person whose name I was trying to pull out of my brain during the podcast, but I just couldn't get it because, you know, 45-year-old brain. Of course. But there is nothing in the instructions that said, if you get an advantage, you get your vote back. It just says, you can try your luck again. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't like it. Now, we know, historically, they're really bad at writing rules. So it might have meant that. It might have. I will say, this episode with the journey they didn't leave anything to question they were it was it was so explicit with like what everything meant with those three amulets i think that's what they were calling them so i i can appreciate there being a little more thorough explanation in regards to that,

even though I still didn't like what they did. No. Um, no comment. Now, another thing Heidi was right about was the Genevieve would suddenly rise from nowhere and take control. I mean, she, she said it a couple of times during the podcast

and I had clipped them and I was getting ready to make a video and I'm like, I never got around to it. But then this episode happened. I was like, OK, now I got to make it to a video. She was so right. Yeah, it was a great prediction by Heidi. And we even got to look into Genevieve's brain as she thought about Kishan and strangely all the things he said when she wasn't around. You know, it's amazing how she just happened to know all of those things.

Yes. It was an absolutely fascinating culmination of events. And I must say that my Genevieve was something i was thinking about a lot during that moment as well but yes really quite incredible to have that moment where you you truly see a player processing bits and pieces and the show is putting it together for you but you know that's what she's also formulating in her mind at the same time. So it's just really incredible editing. I love that scene.

Yeah. That scene was hysterical. Yes. And it also, like for me, it was like, yeah, she knows that stuff because she's the only one taking Rome seriously. And Rome is the kind of guy that thinks he's a leader. So he's going to be extra generous to his follower, Genevieve, right? So, of course, she was able to decipher all that and they were able to, you know, pull it off in the end. But it honestly was hysterical editing.

This episode was so great. I'm so excited, honestly, for the rest of the season. If this is only pre-merged it's so good yeah and i will say that i do really appreciate that rome really was actually like looking out for kishan when he was talking to genevieve about the whole situation when he was telling her about it he's like oh but there was no malice like it just it wasn't like that at all which i thought was really quite interesting because it i feel like it showed a softer side of rome that like rome really isn't all like like mean and hardcore like i really do think that he is he is being genuine when those opportunities present themselves and i

think we saw that a couple of times throughout this episode where there were those genuine moments with Rome. So he wasn't trying to throw Kishan under the bus, but he was causing her wheels to spin in a particular way without like doing it in a way where he was trying to goad her to do that. So it was really fascinating to see her putting it together. Well, I mean, I think we'll talk about this plenty in a few minutes, but I think her wheels were already spinning in that way. And he just provided additional information, but you're right about Rome. I think that the people he is loyal to, he is loyal to, and they, I mean, we talked about this a little bit last week where it was the chicken and egg. Was he treating Asia and Saul the way he was because they were outside of his alliance or were they outside of his alliance because he didn't get along with

them? I think now what we're seeing is it's because once he has an alliance, once he has a group, you're either in with him and he treats you well, or you're on the outs and he treats you like he treated Saul. But he apologized to Saul. Yeah, for a reason. Ish.

Ish, yeah. I'm sorry if I came across in a certain way. Anytime you have an apology with an if in it, it's not a real apology. you have an apology with an if in it it's not a real apology um but hey you know um but again we'll have plenty more to say about certain aspects of that later um now another thing that i got right last week was that the preview showed supposedly blood all over the place in the tuku tribe and i said oh that could be red paint for an idol. And it was. Look at that. Shocking. That would have been way too much blood. Wow. If someone is bleeding that much, they're being medevaced in a second.

I'm sorry. Right. They're off the show. Yeah. Yeah. That was something I talked with Chelsea, my daughter. I was like, oh, remember in season 42 when they had them cover themselves in that red blood paint or whatever. But I actually loved that this episode, like I felt like in season 42 in that opener, it actually like kind of looked like blood.

This looked like paint. Right. It was very obvious that, hey, you're doing something game, you know, like with production, so to speak. Like, who are you fooling? Oh, I was playing with the machete. I mean, but none of neither of the other two said anything about paint. They kept saying there's blood in your hair. There's blood on your hand. There's, you know, I I don't know.

My mind went right to red paint because of, um, I don't remember who had it in. Oh gosh. Where they had to like stick their hand into red paint. Yeah. Um, to get the idol. I don't remember. It was, I don't remember that 41, 42, 43 ish. I think somewhere. Um, yeah, I don't know. Early new era. Um, I'm sure we'll get a comment of someone telling me because I can't pull it on my brain right now. 45 year old.

But yeah, I did at least, you know, Sue's excuse of having bitten her tongue was smart because they're not, they can't see a cut on your tongue. You know, whereas if she had said, oh, I, because at first she said she was playing with the machete and i'm thinking well they're gonna want to see the cut then right then she said she bit her tongue and it's like did you bite your tongue by chewing on the machete i don't quite know but uh yeah we'll you know it was all a little strange it was definitely

not and but i will say how on earth did nobody happen by the red paint area when she was trying to clean it up? Like, I don't understand that at all. That was an insane amount of red paint. She had to do so much to try to cover it, to hide it, to sweep it away, to pick up more leaves. And I am fascinated that nobody came by throughout that entire time that is interesting because honestly the camps aren't gigantic right I mean they're big but they're not gigantic but you know sometimes when I re-watched my season I was like wow how did I not walk past that where What was I doing? You were resting, you know, you didn't want to go out looking.

I mean, true, but like I ain't stumble upon nobody. I mean, I gotta go to the bathroom. I'm drinking a lot of water. Fascinating. The things that you go back and you're like, wow, I really did miss that and and so i guess that's one of those moments but i feel like it was on the path so it's somewhere that you would think that there would be quite a few people like potentially coming by but yes guess not yeah um now getting into the episode we began with Teenie talking to all of us who analyze the show strategically. As they said, I'd love to claim the vote for Saul was purely this mastermind strategic plan, but that's not entirely true.

I could not fathom writing Asia's name down because of my emotional bond with her. Now, I like how that scene worked both to show players are human and also that they think about strategy at the same time. We know that teeny listens to our HAP. So, you know, what was going through TD's mind, it would have been funny if later in interviews, teeny says something like, Oh yeah, I was totally thinking about, Oh, the podcasters are going to wonder, why did I write down Saul's name? You know, and that's why they were talking about this. But I just felt like, you know, I felt like Teenie was speaking to us. Yes, I did feel the same.

And I do feel like she's a really great narrator there. She's she's providing insight into a lot of components of the show and kind of breaking it down and making it a little more personal, which I think is lovely to have someone who's able to do so because it really does help people see it from a different perspective. That yes, even though we're playing a game,

we're still human and we're still dealing with emotions and the effects of the decisions that we're making and the reasons why we don't want to do certain things might be influenced by other components of ourselves. So I really did appreciate hearing that. And I love that she's able to do that. And I just, I think she's fantastic with the way that she provides that information. Oh, I just wholeheartedly disagree. Oh, really?

I wholeheartedly disagree. Oh, really? Teenie makes absolutely no sense to me. I'm sorry. You don't want to vote out a pre-merger? Hello? What does that even matter? And I'm not saying I agree with her.

I like that she's able to explain. I see what you're saying. It's not just all game mechanics. And because I do feel like someone who hasn't necessarily played, they might be sitting there going, well, I don't understand. Why can't you just why can't you just vote this way? Like what's right? Well, because you're still human. Right. And there's still those things. Now, I'm not saying she's correct in the decision she made that I would I would probably tend to say, no, you're not supposed to be letting your emotions control you. Right. But I do appreciate the fact that she's reminding viewers like, hey, by the way, like we are real people and there are parts of this that become a little more difficult

when you're having to make these decisions. So, yeah, that's that's the part. So I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do appreciate the fact that we're hearing that. Yeah. I guess I can be open to that. I just don't. I'm just like that old crotchety Facebook group member. That's like, why do they cast super fans? It's messes with the game. I don't know yeah I'm just old and crotchety I guess that's why they called me Meemaw out there

are you 45? because apparently I mean I could be 45 I could be you know 100 actually Jeff called me he said he was I was walking around like I was 100 years old and that's why they started calling me me ma and I was like Jeff you just blew up my whole game

I've been lying this whole time about my age I'm actually 100 and you just told everyone and I was like hoping that would be for yeah huh I said damn it Jeff right right so anyway uh as opposed to Jeff who could be a hundred and will still look the same uh so forever amen all right well do either of you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we get to the rules? No, I'm I'm ready to go. I would like to say just give a shout out to Kyle. Come on, bro. I'm pulling for you. You're just so cute. I want you to stay in the game.

He is a very kind soul. He is a very kind soul. He wants to prove that nice people can win i would like to see it 45 even if you're 45 but a nice person wouldn't lie about something like that so it's fair yeah all right well there were of course other things going on uh some of them i've already posted like four of them in my youtube shorts at David Bloomberg TV and more will be coming. One that's already up there, of course, is the perfect scene with Teenie giving those looks to the camera after Rome went in on Saul. You know, yes. Yeah, those were just. Those were amazing. That's the, yeah, those were just, those were amazing. Now, before we get to how Keyshawn did,

we do want to mention that the rules we're about to discuss come in a shorter and much more colorful version in poster form. And so go to robhiswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed and then scroll down to the poster and click on it. We've got Liz doing her best Vanna White. And someone else who has not aged. In addition to the poster, you can also scroll down and get the poster on a t-shirt because that's a lot easier to keep with you all the time.

Or you can get the checklist on a t-shirt, which just goes through the rules in a different way. So again, you can get any of these at robhaswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed. Excellent. All right. Well, the episode that we watched made it seem like Genevieve decided to turn on Kishan

in large part because he used her name as a decoy. His interview shed a different light on that, but opened up a whole new view into the way he was playing, adding to what we already saw from him on the show. We saw Rome as the chaotic player, but was it actually Keyshawn? And what was he missing that will run through our entire discussion? At RHAP, weap we know survivor and we know why kishan lost love these little teasers yes the first and most important rule is to scheme and plot and kishan definitely was doing this we already knew he was super tight with teeny and of course the two of them were in the middle of the other two duos with him saying they had really great relationships with both. What we didn't know until his interviews was that he also had what he believed was a very solid alliance with Genevieve as well, such that he didn't even consider himself and Tini a duo.

Rather, he considered them plus Genevieve a trio. And he further said that the plan to get rid of Rome as soon as he used his idol had been floated previously and Genevieve appeared to be on board with it. Now, I want to emphasize what I just said and that the words appeared to be are the key here. Because if there's one thread that I believe is going to run through a number of these rules, It's that Keyshawn had one idea of what was going on and what other people were thinking. And those people had their own ideas. In fact, I think he did a lot of things without considering what other people might think, or at least not recognizing that they might be thinking something other than what they were saying. So it's really appropriate

to me that we have Liz here, because it seems, Liz, that a lot of your own strategy was not only considering what others would think, but molding it the way you want it. I really, really appreciate you saying that. Yeah, I have a degree in leadership. So I always say like, it's just a master's in manipulation. I know how to get people around an idea and to push that narrative forward. And I think Keyshawn thought he knew how to do that, right? We see many scenes of him, oh, I'm just pushing him to go do this or that. But really, I think in trying to do it, maybe just in this one tribal council, trying to do so many things like which I'm getting ahead of myself with the rules, like just doing too much. Right. Yes. So you scare people, David. They don't want to talk about another rule too soon.

I ain't scared. I just appreciate an outline is all. Yeah. Hold on. Watch. Watch me scare Jessica. Ready? Oh, God. No.

This is awful. This is the worst candy. Besides like circus peanuts, which I think you like those. Oh, yes. Those are amazing. Oh, you. Right. Just eat chalk. What are you doing?

It's disgusting. Anyway, moving on. Oh, God. I can't even like the texture. See, I've scared her. I told you. You just moan and make me throw up. They're so gross.

Mommy and Daddy are fighting niggers. Help me in the comments. There's so many better candy options. People will take side in the comments. They do. And listen, if you're on his side with candy corn and circus peanuts, come on. I agree. I agree with Jessica. Thank you. They're effing nasty.

And I hope I'm allergic to them. Yeah. Wouldn't it be amazing? You're like, yep. Circus peanuts. Damn. Can't eat those. Anyway, are we talking about Keyshawn yes getting back to Keyshawn what episode is this

I think that he sees now what he didn't in the game he told Dalton Ross you feel so naive in that moment but again you have to remember these are 18 people who all knew exactly what they were doing. Every single person knew that they had strategy, knew exactly what they were going to do.

I thought I knew exactly what I was going to do. And like I said, that's the key here to me. He was enacting his own plan, but other people, especially in this case, Genevieve, had their own plan. And beyond just the plan, he also told Dalton, the thing that you don't realize is other people have relationships in the background as well. And you just never know who is going to be prevailing and who's going to be the strongest. And certainly he proved that to Asia in just the prior tribal council when she believed she had a tight relationship with him while he had a better one, he thought, with Genevieve. Now, Genevieve turned that around

on him. And as he also told Dalton, it really humbles you in that moment where you're like, OK, I just got outplayed. And I think, you know, Liz, going back to your season again, I think there was a theme in your season of several people, including one on your tribe for sure, but who were certain that they knew where everybody stood, but were wrong. Absolutely. I think that's the main reason why most of us lose, right? I think Jeff even opened it in our season all of you are just blindly confident and most almost everyone will lose right I think that's something especially in this first stage of the game you have to be very like cognizant like I don't know what's going on right like maybe I don't know and not to the point of paranoia, because that's another reason you can lose, right?

Being too paranoid. But to the point where you are open enough to really see what's going on, right? It sounded like, and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, I don't know. Like Keyshawn was making plans two, three votes in the future, right? Yeah.

Like, oh, well, if Rome is gone, Genevieve has to attach herself to me. And so I'm like, bro, you ain't even gotten to the vote yet. Like you're already thinking about tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah.

Slow down, baby. You're going too fast. Yeah. Well, and that's something we've talked about a lot too. Pregame. When we read the press that

that is provided and and so many players are talking about the plans that they that they've already created in their own minds before they even play the game like this is who i want to align with and this is what i foresee my alliance looking like and what i want to do in the game and and they come up with all these great ideas but they are failing to recognize that everyone else coming in with a plan too. And you have to be able to be mindful of that. And I think that we saw with Asia when she came and she had all of these great ideas and then she finds herself on a tribe with Rome and you're like, wait a second, now things are definitely going to have to change and I I do think that Kishan just really got ahead of himself where he thought for certain yes I am I am secretly controlling everything here and no one can tell when in actuality

other people were secretly controlling everything oh wow. Yeah. I mean, he almost did play his way out of it this time. Sure. Almost. Almost. Because one part of his strategy was to create rifts between other players on the tribe. And that certainly wasn't difficult to do when it came to Rome. You know, as Kishan said on the show, my strength is getting to know people, really understanding them and then being able to beautifully manipulate them. That should have been the moment we knew Keyshawn was going. Now, we saw him do some of that. For example, when he was encouraging Rome to be extra Rome

when approaching Saul about his shot in the dark. As he told Mike Bloom, I knew that was going to turn terribly. Rome doesn't know how to ask people for things. He's just going to demand it. I'm going to hype him up. I want to create that divide between them. And he did. It took a monumental effort on Genevieve's part to push them to vote together, not to mention both of them overcoming it as well. both of them overcoming it as well. And that was probably the best part of Keyshawn's plan to keep them separated. And it seems like it came close to working. Yeah. I would say that Keyshawn was playing to Rome's weaknesses, right?

The things that were easily manipulated. But what Genevieve does and why Genevieve is still in the game is she was playing to Rome's strengths, right? His strength is his loyalty. His strength is his, you know, he wants to be the center of attention, right? And that can, in his personal life, Rome the host, right? That is his strength and so she played to those strengths which feeds the ego right nobody wants to you know have their weaknesses

pointed out right nobody wants to be manipulated and i think kishan was really playing to those weaknesses of rome's which bit him in the end yeah yeah because i do think that in rome's mind when he's comparing and contrasting the two that with genevieve was she will be so loyal to me because he is looking at her as someone who is reinforcing all of the good that rome sees in himself she's making him feel better about himself whereas if he really starts looking at what kishan is centering around he could say no no wait a second he's trying to get me riled up he's trying to get me upset better about himself. Whereas if he really starts looking at what Keyshawn is centering around, he could say, no, no, wait a second. He's trying to get me riled up. He's trying to get me upset. And you might not see that in the moment, but then once someone kind of pointed out to you,

then you have time to really pay attention and go, wait a second. So he's not looking out for me. He's looking out for himself. So I do think that that's a really great point that they, they were certainly playing different parts of rome and unfortunately genevieve was playing the better part of rome in order to make her game turn out the way that she wanted to turn out yes so we can go into the second rule we've dipped our toes in a little bit here it says uh not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret and we definitely have some things to talk about here now i want to start with something that

kishan told gordon holmes he said i don't have any regrets about going too big too soon and then he added it's part of the fun and otherwise you're just sitting in the background waiting to be taken to the end he said the fun part of the game is making moves well no wonder jeff cast kishan he played exactly big moves i think he said big moves yeah yeah he you know he he played according to what jeff loves rather than doing what's necessary to win he he also said i wanted to play survivor to have fun have a good time i wanted to make big moves i didn't want to just be dragged along now i'm glad kishan had fun but we're here to talk about gameplay for winning including that million dollars at the end that anyone could use. And we know that big moves are not the way to do it.

Especially so very early in the game. Big moves are a no-no. Oh, big move. No, no. Don't do it. You're gonna lose. I'm having so much fun

who would have thought this voice can go that low incredible range it's totally off tune but it's incredible I was gonna say you can sing next listen David raps no oh wait

as good as Sam I think maybe there's a rapping angle here because we did see Sam rap. Yeah, but Sam didn't lose, so there's no reason. Okay, so when Sam loses, will you rap? Yes, big moves.

Not when Sam loses. He's not my winner pick. He's not the winner pick. You know, T's not my winner pick. So I'm not the winner pick. He's not. You know, TK was my winner pick.

Oh, no. I just pick whoever is the hottest because I just want them to be around, you know, and he is fine. I mean, TK, if you're watching, holler, I'm single and I can buy you a drink. Okay. And a bourbon burger burger and a bourbon burger or two billionaire yeah so speaking of big moves like this i totally get that part of you know i came here to play i came here you know to do this or that but you know you don't want to burn out too fast survivor it feels like a sprint but it's a marathon right and you gotta you gotta like slowly build up i mean look at and obviously i lost i got it but like the first few episodes i'm just sitting around like making jokes about money and men

and then the last episode i'm you know stealing maria's win right like it was very much just okay i'm gonna make big moves but i don't have to make them right now right now i have to be safe yes so that i can play that individual game yes and that was the thing that kishan seems to not have recognized he was safe and he even even said during the episode, no one's talking about us. Like no one's mentioning our name. That's a really good thing. So there's no reason to start causing people to start looking at you if you don't need to just yet.

You could have just been safe. This could have been an easy vote. This could have been one that everyone kind of got behind and moved on. But then you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Maybe now's the time. No, maybe now wasn't the time, Keyshawn, because look what ends up happening. It all went back to Keyshawn. I mean, he was a bit contradictory in this overall. He came into the show saying in the pregame that he wanted to lie low for a while. And he did say something similar in early episodes.

But then he also said things like i'm not here to play safe i'm here to create some chaos so maybe he thought he could create chaos and stay under the radar as he talked a couple times like you said about how his name hadn't come up but in a five-person tribe the chaos creator cannot stay hidden for long. You know, when Mike Bloom asked him about future players who want to incorporate chaos into their own games, Keyshawn said his advice is to know their limits. He said, I thought my chaos was unending, and I thought it could just be an infinite amount, and I would just be able to recognize what's going on behind the scenes.

But when there is so much happening, you're going to be left out of a conversation. That's just the case. If you're going to play it ultra safe, you're going to probably know a lot more of what's happening. However, you are not going to be making any big decisions and big moves and everything's going to end up turning out in a slightly bland way versus if there's a lot of chaos, you might not know exactly what's going to happen as in my case, but it's a lot more fun. And there he is again with the fun, even while acknowledging this was a big reason he was sent packing and that you know more by playing safer. This is why survivor needs to cast more poor people.

why survivor needs to cast more poor people. I mean, I was thinking we need people. We need people that want to win. Like that's what I could not understand out there. When people are like, I'm just here to have fun. I number one,

I didn't believe it. Right. I was like, what? Like I was there for the money. I could go to Disney World you know what and not get dirty right like what about this I was very much

like Keith that was like this so this is not fun like you know like going on a cruise is fun going fishing is fun going to play golf is fun this ain't fun no it fishing is fun. Going to play golf is fun. This ain't fun. No, it really is not

fun. And I appreciate the idea of people who really just want the money. The amount of people who have been like, I don't care about the money. I just want the title. Well, title, yeah, I wanted the title too, but that came with the money. Amen.

I would think that some people believe it's a lot more fun to win a million dollars and then to do something fun with that million dollars yeah all right kishan we love you anyway you're super cute i wish you would have stayed. I really like cute guys. Clearly, you picked TK as your winner. Yeah. Now, it wasn't just chaos and big moves that caused Kishan problems in this rule. We saw on the show that he proposed using Genevieve's name as the decoy because he didn't want his out there. And the show made it seem like Rome was the one who told her this. But Kishan said

in interviews that he told her and he also said that he and Rome came up with the idea together, but he wanted to make sure it was OK. And she said it made sense and seemed agreeable. Clearly, it wasn't. There's that word seemed again. You know, for one thing, we saw Rome insisting to her that it was Kishan that came up with the idea. You brought it up earlier and said, you know, oh, there was no malice to it when he said it. I think that was a follow up conversation. I think Kishan talked to her, said we both came up with it. And then later she was talking to Rome and Rome was like, no, we didn't both come up with it.

Kishan came up with it and, you know, and then said, oh, but there was no malice, of course. And she's like, uh, we didn't both come up with it. Keyshawn came up with it. And then said, but there was no malice, of course. And she's like, uh-huh, sure. But aside from that, I think this is another case of not considering what another person might think. He knew he didn't want his name out there. Why would he think Genevieve would be okay

with her name being out there? He even told Dalton Ross, I didn't think much of it. Who knew that that's what was turning in her head? Well, you should have. Yeah, because you didn't want it either. Nobody wants to be the decoy vote. It's a terrible place to be. Now there was more to it, of course.

Kishan said on the show that the true benefit of switching the vote to Rome was it left Genevieve in a more vulnerable position. But again, he apparently didn't consider that she might realize that. Plus, he doesn't want to be in that position. Yeah, yeah. He told Mike Bloom that he thinks she noticed him not sitting back and letting things happen, but rather guiding and controlling the votes and then telling her in Rome. Again, she was thinking about things in a way that he did not recognize.

There is this common thread here. Yes. Yeah. It sounds like, I mean, kind of similar to Tevin and myself. Tevin thought we were working together and we were up until a point right and he said oh I just feel like you know kishan might have seen genevieve maybe genevieve was acting like me you know we didn't see her a lot in the first few episodes maybe she really was laying low maybe she was trying to find her footing a lot of us go out

there I think everybody in there we try to find our footing right A lot of us go out there. I think everybody in there, we try to find our footing, right? It's like, I don't know. I thought I was going to come out this way. It's turning into this. Let me lay low so I can figure out what I want. And maybe Keyshawn, because this seems to be a theme, just took that as,

oh, unlike me who wants to make big moves, she's just the one playing it safe, which that's not the gameplay I like or admire so she's going to be easy to manipulate because she just wants to be right so maybe again it's that underestimating of Genevieve not like David said even considering that she's playing the game I don't know it seems like he didn't even consider that she was playing the game yeah yeah and i think that you have truly like he knew that she was close with rome and that was something that he talked about in some of his exopress as well so like he should have been considering well she's clearly close with rome So there has to be something that that she's doing in relationship to that because she's tying herself to Rome. So there there are a lot of levels that I feel like he just kind of didn't even consider and and just really was not cognizant of the effect that the conversations he's having with Rome and Genevieve could potentially come back together.

And then they start comparing notes, essentially. Yeah. I mean, he knew that she was close to Rome, but he believed that she was closer to him. And because they had had those conversations, you know, from very early about, oh, as soon as he gets rid of his idol, we got to get rid of him. He believed she was being honest with him sure and again it didn't occur to him that this is survivor and people sometimes lie it's crazy what like about their age oh my gosh no nobody would ever do that um or about how much yeah exactly that was yeah yeah um now the third rule uh tells players to be flexible now liz we just talked about kishan having a few different alliances and trying to move things around

but how do you think he was overall with this role i think he was about as flexible you know as my hamstrings once i turned 45 like not very he thought he was controlling things and if he would have been flexible to me flexible is another in survivor terms you have to be open right like to me he was so inflexible like this is the plan I've set it up all day I'm feeling myself I can clearly see Rome and Saul you you know, I've pushed them apart. This is working perfectly. But I think if he was flexible in his thinking, he said, oh, Genevieve and Rome, they're talking a lot today. Or, oh my gosh, why are Rome and Saul talking, you know, a couple hours before sunset?

And he probably would have gotten with the program and you know convinced Genevieve otherwise but I think it was so immovable and I've got the plan this is what's happening I've you know spent the last 10 days or whatever making this right this is the time to make the move yeah yeah I mean this I was thinking along the same way, you know, in some ways it seemed like he was being flexible and that he had multiple possible choices. But on the other hand, there is a specific part of this rule that says players should have their finger on the pulse of the tribe. And you just described Liz all the ways he did not have his finger on the pulse of the tribe. You know, we mentioned that he's told Dalton Ross,

you don't realize other people have relationships in the background as well, but that's something you need to do your best to know. He believed he knew exactly what Genevieve would do, but she, she was not a chess piece on his board. She had her own strategy and it didn't line up with his. And I feel like once he kind of got the momentum, it was like he was feeling them and he was excited

and he, I can't wait to go to tribal kind of thing. And, and it, and it was really just, it was almost like it was no longer like in his control. Like once it was like, here we go, this is what's happening and then that's the direction and there was no like well hold up wait let's let's think about this where i think the approach that they took last episode or was it when asia went so it was last episode when asia went home where they they had a conversation with saul and they had a conversation with asia and there was the hey what do you think about this and they were a conversation with Asia and there was the, Hey, what do you think about this? And they were kind of weighing their options and then making the decision based upon weighing

those options where this kind of almost like seemed like steamroll, like, Oh, this is, this is, this is the time now we're here instead of really weighing the options. Like, are we really here? Is this the best time? Maybe we need to pump the brakes and we can always do this later. Because if Genevieve is already on board with this idea of voting out Rome, that means she'll be okay with it later, right? And she might get to that point later when it's more necessary. It didn't seem necessary right now. Such a good point. That's really smart well thank you you should play what it's crazy right and then when you're done podcast about it yeah oh my god what a what a crazy idea i'm a crazy lady

all right well we could go to the fourth rule which tells players not to let their emotions I'm a crazy lady. All right. Well, we could go to the fourth rule, which tells players not to let their emotions control them. And here I need to give Keyshawn props. And he even practically cited to this rule when he said in tribal council, when you're so deprived of food, you can't sleep at night.

There are part of parts of people's personalities that come out that bother you, that irk you, but that's letting emotions get to you. When you're playing this game, you have to be more strategic than that. And he was exactly right. He wasn't trying to vote out Rome because he was annoying. He was doing it because Rome was even more chaotic than he was. And as he said on the show, he could trust him now, but not in the future. But as he said on the show he could trust him now but not in the future but as he said that in tribal council little did he know that he was explaining precisely what Rome and Saul would be doing to him a few minutes later putting their emotions aside to join forces and vote him out yeah it's crazy

yeah I want to say like don't let your emotions run the show which a lot of people say oh yeah of course you know like that was the reason i didn't try to vote q out after the applebee's thing right but at the same time i think kishan let his positive emotions run the show right you have to be pretty neutral and steady the whole game to make it pretty darn far and you know have a good case at the end because he his positive feelings were oh my gosh i'm so excited i'm doing the thing i was thinking about for a week at ponderosa before we could talk i'm doing the things that i said during casting i'm going to do like those are all great great feelings but I think letting those

feelings run the show is the reason why we just talked about him being inflexible in the game yeah that's a really good point you should play thank you if you know anybody tell them to call me I'm allergic to coconut, though.

Will they take me? I think you can get them. I don't know. You might not last that long. I might be wasting a spot. I might not even make it to the island. Well, I think the interesting thing, too, is the comparison to like Rome with that particular point where you have Rome who is who people think is playing very chaotically and playing

very emotionally and playing from a from a place that's not necessarily the correct avenue right but he did the exact opposite of what Kishan did because he was looking at this going, I really I can't stand Saul and I want Saul to go home really badly. I want that guy voted out now to then go in. Well, now, wait a second. Let me let me look at this from a different angle and let me put a nice justice juxtaposition to see between the two where you had kishan not doing that but then you had the the person rome who everyone thinks is doing that actually playing the game in a different in a different way so it was interesting to see the two come together in this in like one episode yeah yeah all right well the fifth rule reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game uh jessica did you see anything indicating any problems uh with

kishan here well that's the that's what makes this so very interesting right because kishan came across as very likable and and he was a social player and he talked about how he had created very close relationships early on where there was the the, the triplicate, if you will, as opposed to just a duo. So I do think that he was able to genuinely be nice. But I think that because he was genuinely being nice, there were. Oh, did we lose Liz? Looks like we lost Liz. No, I'm just rubbing my eyes and I didn't want to be on camera, but go on.

I do love the photo though, Liz. I'm so cute. You are so cute. So I don't think that he struggled with playing a social game. I think he was able to form those relationships, which is why he had some options. But I also think that he wasn't recognizing, as you've indicated, that other people were also going to be doing the same thing and other people were going to be weighing those relationships and how those relationships were going to affect their game and who was going to be the best person for their game, as opposed to

just what was going to be best for kishan so it was an interesting mix because yes he was i think he's very likable and i think people got along with him and i think he he did very well in that regard but he wasn't recognizing other people's strengths in relationship to the types of social game they were all playing as well in relationship to the types of social game they were all playing as well. Yeah, I mean, all I have here is that, you know, he seemed to be a pretty likable guy who could get along with just about anyone, even if he was trying to encourage a couple of his tribe mates to not get along with each other.

Sure. You know, he talked in interviews about getting really close to Genevieve on a personal level, said, you know, that was the only time he cried out there and stuff like that, which was one reason he was sure they were locked in together. But as he was relying on rule five to connect them, she was making use of rule four for herself. Mm hmm. Fair point.

All right. Well, Liz, I don't know if you had anything else or we'll move to the sixth rule. Nope. I think you did an all right job there. Thank you. So this one warns against being too much of a threat. And we discussed earlier how Keyshawn said in the first few days of the game that he wanted to stay under the radar and be low key. But then we also discussed what he said in this episode about not being there to play safe, but being there to create some chaos.

I don't think the chaos itself caused him to be recognized as a threat, but rather it was the moves he was making, the making of the chaos, not the chaos itself, which, you know, we discussed somewhat in the second rule. Indeed, one thing Genevieve told Saul was, Kishan is way more dangerous as compared to Rome. And Kishan expanded on that and telling Gordon Holmes that while Rome would be a perfect shield for later, Keyshawn himself would not be because he and Teenie would sit in the background and make decisions and be threats.

Yeah, and we've talked about this too as being a threat to someone's game because of the potential votes that you can cast in relationship to that person against that person so you end up becoming more of an individualized threat to someone's game and so you end up looking at them differently and i think genevieve was certainly looking at kishan differently because she was recognizing he's doing all of these things and that's going to negatively affect my game and my game is with Rome and I know Rome is going to be loyal to me and he's going to do everything that I want to do whereas Kishan is not and so he becomes more

of a threat to her so that's where it becomes very individualized I I totally agree. And I think it goes back to something we've shared earlier about him just thinking too far ahead. And in Survivor, especially, you know, there's only five people, right? And you just went to tribal, probably already like on edge, a little spooked, things didn't go the way you thought uh you know you still got asia out but it's like wait teeny voted for who and you know like that was just a weird vote it wasn't you know it didn't go the way most people thought it would go as far as the votes went so for him to you know basically back to back oh i'm gonna i'm just gonna be more forward facing about how i want to vote and how i want it to go yeah that definitely probably you know threw up some red flags yeah

yeah all right well the seventh rule covers idols and advantages in game mechanics and while kishan didn't have anything himself he had to dance around what Rome had, though he eventually fell victim to it. He thought that once Rome's idol was gone, Genevieve would be totally on board with getting rid of him. And it seems like she didn't push back, you know, just apparently went along until it came time for the rubber to meet the road.

And she decided, yeah, I don't really want that. Or maybe she had decided a long time ago and she was just leading kishan on it's hard to say either way once she flipped the script on him rome's votes deal made him literally powerless and all he could do was sit and watch till the end of tribal council yeah and this is you know this is one of those things it is terrible to just kind of watch all of the the the premise behind survivor right is that you get to vote people out and then you don't get to because someone takes your vote from you and i don't think that we've actually seen steal a vote like work.

I think someone, well, someone mentioned. A couple seasons ago at working well, but again, I can't remember the exact situation, but this is certainly one of the few times. Yeah. You know, and I do think that Genevieve really explained this so well, because there's so few people, the votes really can mean the world. And that's the part of this that I don't necessarily love with these smaller tribes, because you really do take so much power away from people just with something as simple as a steal a vote, as opposed to when you would have maybe eight people left in a tribe and steal a vote might not have as much of an effect as it would when you're down to such a small group of people yeah i i loved it honestly i thought it

was great though it was made for like great gameplay because yeah like david said they took his vote and he literally it was like losing fire it was like oh i see kensley winning i just i can't not you know i can't just sit there but i know i'm about to lose you know like it was giving that same energy but i want to say the thing about this rule that i was really thinking about because to jessica's point yeah there's not really much you can do. But I feel like if Keyshawn, again, this is like the through line here, if he would have understood or slowed down, because I don't think Keyshawn got on Survivor lacking awareness of other people, right?

But I think he was letting those positive emotions run him. I think if he would have, you know, I know Rome has a steal the vote. Let me think about how Rome have, you know, I know Rome has a steal the vote. Let me think about how Rome wants to use this, right? And that's what the rule is, know how to deal with idols and advantages. Rome, to me, just from what I see, is a braggy and flashy man, very similar to me. I love being the center of attention, right? If I'm thinking about Rome and I know he already played his idol. So he saw season 46 and he's just playing these things because, you know, he doesn't want to end up like Venus and Q and Jem and Hunter and Tiff and, and, and, right. And so I know all all these things i'm going to run the scenario not

about through what i want to do through what rome wants to do with his advantage rome wants he said oh i'm i made fire in 20 seconds i you know i'm good you might as well name the survivor rome you know i bet you he's probably said that to somebody, you know, like I would have. And so knowing that, I would think, well, how does Rome want to play this advantage? It's a steal advantage, right? And David just told us, you know, they are not really used very successfully. Rome wants to use this to light up the cameras so to speak right he wants to be infamous on Survivor we can just tell and so if I'm Keyshawn I'm thinking he's not

going to want to steal it from Saul because that's boring that's obvious you know and and why would he steal it from Genevieve and you know is he going to steal it from oh wait Teenie doesn't have a vote you know like all this and so that's probably when I would think oh my gosh is it me right so that I think he really, what's the opposite of nailed it with this rule? His thumb? I don't know. Right, right. He missed the mark. Yes, missed the mark. Yeah. because he did have that conversation with Rome about the talking about the with the steal of O versus taking Saul's whatever it's called that thing Sean the Dark thank you yeah and so I do

think that that that makes sense that he should have really been paying attention to the idea that Liz was just talking about with it wanting be flashy, wanting to be a move. And so if he's talking about, I'll tell him to give me a shot in the dark. So, and so maybe he should have like been like, well, do we really need to do this deal about right now? And just kind of talk through the permutations of it. What is this going to look like? Do we really need to do this if we're all on board for it to be solved?

permutations of it what is this going to look like do we really need to do this if we're all on board for it to be solved it maybe that would have been the better play than then being like yeah like go for it like really like really like force him in to have to give you his shot in the dark or put him in a back him in a corner make him feel like he's he has no options and give him an ultimatum right that's what he ended up doing. But not a threat. It wasn't a threat. It wasn't a threat. It was an ultimatum.

Of course not. Definitely not a threat. I do think, you know, Jessica, you mentioned, you know, with the steel of vote, how much power it has in these smaller tribes. And maybe that's why we're seeing it work now when it didn't work in the bigger tribe because in a bigger tribe you have lots of permutations and you think you know where it's going uh like right fishback uh you know who uh you know and whereas in a tribe where there's only four votes being cast yes it's it's it's hard to mess up.

It's a lot harder to mess up. Right. And I want to mention something here because we didn't really talk about this a whole lot, but with the journey and the idea that y'all need to agree, or you're all going to lose your vote, or one of you has to agree to lose your vote. And then you get these amulets and y'all have to get along and love each

other. And, and all this craziness that came with it again like that that journey and forcing people to have to lose a vote in such a way this is what it leads to right because then teeny doesn't have a vote and so teeny's looking at it as well i know where i fall in my group of people. And I know that if I lose my vote, we'll still be fine because I've got at least three. I probably have four. So we'll be OK. So, OK, I'll take the heat on this one, because what did she say?

I'm going to lose my vote either way. Right. She's like, if I don't agree that I'm losing my vote, if I do agree, I'm going to lose my vote and at least get something for it. And so what ends up happening? Keyshawn goes home because now she doesn't have a vote. And so she's utterly powerless. And in all of what's happening, nobody comes to her with this plan because they know if he doesn't have a vote, it doesn't matter. And so I just this idea of like forcing players to have to lose the one thing that is the like most significant part of playing survivor is so frustrating to me because it is not their choice. Right. This was one of those journeys that some didn't someone else. One of the other tribes got to choose who was going and like you know so it wasn't people's choice to go it was you were being sent to go and then all of a sudden here you're now now your choice is you either lose your vote and agree who's going to or you're all just gonna lose your vote anyway so who cares i it's just i really find that very very frustrating that's disgusting. That is disgusting.

No, I hate it too. I was so glad that our season didn't have that. I was like, Oh good. They got rid of it because it's, it's unfair. It doesn't even make any sense. And it's not fun to watch. Nobody, you know, you don't want to kick a puppy. Like why, why are you doing this? Nobody wants to watch that that's disgusting yeah i mean i will say i i agree with you but i will say in this case i don't think it mattered to the outcome it's hard to say for sure but even if teeny had a vote okay that's one vote they just wouldn't have bothered uh talking to teeny you know the i they didn't, they didn't tell teeny the plan anyway, because everybody else knew that teeny would tell Keyshawn.

So I think they would have handled it. You know, everybody else would have handled it the exact same way. And then teeny would have been like, what the hell's going on? Cause apparently, and this is something we haven't brought up, but Keyshawn brought up and I only saw him bring it up in one interview. This, what we did not see was before they sat back down again, or that before the tribal council ended,

there was a lot of standing up and running around and talking to different people. We didn't see any of that. Wow. Yeah. And that made uh kishan wonder what the heck was going on and then you know uh especially when right after that uh once it's solidified um you know that's when rome up, takes, you know, takes his vote. So I still think. All right.

But if Teenie had a vote, if she had a vote. Right. So then Teenie's back on the board. And so we're looking at five votes. She's got Keyshawn and she thinks that Keyshawn is with her and Keyshawn thinks Teenie is, you know, with him. And then you have Saul who wants nothing more than to get Rome out of the game and so if Teenie is on board to get Rome out of the game and Keyshawn is on board to get Rome out of the game and you've got three and Rome is threatening to steal a vote so he steals Saul's vote you still

have two and you've got potentially three what i'm saying is it flipped anyway by the point is it flipped to kishan so by stealing sean's vote rome ensures that it doesn't matter what saul does it doesn't matter what teeny does right and i understand that but i feel like it might have changed just some of the conversations that were being had right just because she doesn't have a vote so suddenly people are like well it doesn't matter we don't need to talk to her she doesn't have a vote anyway right yeah so i don't think they would have talked to her anyway because of how close uh teeny is to kishan yeah i'm not sure i think i think jessica and dav David are both right. But I have a sign saying, I think what I know you do, babe. I see it.

I can read. That's a requirement. I think you got to read the advantages. Anyway, I think the missing issue here is if teeny had a vote, they probably would have had more skin in the game and probably tried to be in more conversations you know push a certain agenda

etc whether or not to David's point that would have made any difference we'll never know yep we won't great episode either way.

Honestly, I'm best of the new era. I mean, phenomenal. And I love the gameplay. I love that they were able to come up with the whole structure in which the outcome developed. Fantastic. But there are still things that I will always complain about. As you should. Right?

Damn it, I should. Speaking more of those other players and what they all did, we could go to Appendix A, which is about the players keeping their end goals in mind when voting. And we often talk about voting out the weak and the strong and the weak and the strong. But this, obviously, this vote wasn't about something like challenge performance um it was about alliances which should always take precedence anyway and in this case it was all about as jean-vieve said sorry genevieve i used to work with a person named jean-vieve who spelled her name the exact same way so je first time I've tripped up on that. And that's Genevieve.

He's doing great, folks. Leave a review, leave a comment, like, subscribe, ring the bell. Unlike Genevieve, the Genevieve I worked with was not a nice person. But anyway, as Genevieve said in tribal council what would this was about what would benefit her game moving forward and she laid out part of that in the episode as she noted she didn't want to just go along with plans that aren't in her best interest and while others wanted rome out she called him an asset. Some of the other peoples would have dropped the E.T. And he was ruffling people's feathers, but not hers.

I said some of the other people. I didn't say me. Some of the other people. I wouldn't Rome. I wouldn't. We know. Rome, we love you over here. And, you know, that Rome would always have her back which you know this goes

back to what we were saying interesting earlier I think it's an interesting point because we have seen a lot of Rome's wild gameplay but like like we were talking about earlier he is actually a loyal player from what we can tell he he had his solid four, what he saw as his solid four with Genevieve, Tini, and Kishan, and had no use for Asia or Saul. And that's why he was so surprised when Genevieve told him Kishan planned to go against him. So from Genevieve's viewpoint, why would she get rid of Rome and stick with Kishan when Rome has turned on nobody? And Kishan would have at this point turned on two supposed allies in two votes. Yeah.

Yeah. And then add that to the part where he floated her name as the decoy. And we also heard Kishan lay out his idea that getting rid of Rome would put Genevieve into a worse position, which, as I said earlier, you know, I'm sure she also realized. Right. Yeah. Listen, though. But the the appendix states make your votes count. Keep in mind your end goal. And Keyshawn's end goal was to have fun. And so I think he wins this rule. OK, let's get back to what the appendix states

you're right and that the problem i'm never wrong you don't have a sign you need a sign uh or maybe you don't need a sign i should just get one liz you're never wrong there you go um this was actually on jessica's shirt so yeah i do have a shirt with that on it yeah all right well jessica send me your address and i'll send you a shirt i can play this game too that's so fun i would gladly wear that shirt i absolutely would liz is never wrong you're getting a lot of shirts she's a billionaire i i need them because you have so many shirt options i don't have nearly enough so the shirt i'm wearing today describes uh kishan's game it seemed like a good idea at the time. Oh, no. It's a mushroom cloud.

Oh, my gosh, David. He's aggressive with his shirt. Hospital ward. That's a sick burn. I'm getting like residual burns. Bless America. He does pick some some hardcore t-shirts i will i mean i picked a hardcore shirt here i got me i do love now i do love wearing yourself check it out this is like when i'm like i think this is when i'm like soda's got to go and this is like i'm allergic to everything i don't know anyway well i wish someone made this and sent it to me i wish it had i'm pissed on it but it was

someone who loves me that would be great hang on and now i gotta hang on let's make this show about me I love this oh here's where I'm screaming about Q he's nuts and here's where I am just flabbergasted about Q oh yes I remember that I remember that one yes that was funny I can't believe you

screaming about Applebee's wasn't on there I think my friend was just sensitive. Like a lot of, I think it's hilarious. You know, like I've healed. I was just starving is all. But a lot of like my loved ones say they, they had to leave the room. Like they've never seen me like that. I really am like, I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous, but like, I really am like a pretty even keel person. But David's met me. I really am like I mean I know it sounds ridiculous but like I really am like a pretty even keel person but David's met me like I really am just a nice lady and so a lot of my family and

friends were like that made me so uncomfortable I cannot watch it like I couldn't I had to like turn the channel and I didn't warn anybody so I just had an epiphany you should have been like a Snickers commercial you know when people are like hangry yeah you're not you when you're hungry yeah we we had a lot of Snickers jokes out on the island after that they're like grab a bourbon burger like I just really like beef but the thing y'all gotta know before we move on for me is I eat beef like seven to twelve times a week like I've had steak twice today like it really is my main source of food it's all it's pretty much the only food that doesn't make me sick or like give me a rash um so like I really am a carnivore so gosh my mouth is watering so when that burger came out does that happen to you Jessica like

when you talk about food on the island you have like a visceral response oh yes yes okay good good because it's really intense for me anytime Anytime I talk about food and the island, like my mouth starts salivating hard. Anyway, Keyshawn, sorry you lost, bro. I was rooting for you. Again, you're super cute. I hope you're on my screen again someday. Love Big Move-itis.

It's a great television. Great television, not great gameplay but yeah let's finish up the uh appendix a um and you know in the first three episodes we didn't see genevieve and didn't know what her status was other than being described as a tight duo with in fact what we learned in the fourth episode and from Kishan's interviews is that Genevieve had relationships with pretty much everyone and basically had to choose which of them would be most advantageous for her going forward. Each of those people felt they were very close to her. And for a while, they were probably right.

I mean, there was no reason for her to make a decision about who to favor until the decision needed to be made. And again, we come back to take out Rome, that didn't mean Genevieve actually was on board or would stay on board with all of that. She was following the Ghostbuster rule. Yes. You just say yes. Yes. Someone asked if you want to be an alliance. You say yes. You just say yes.

Yep. Yeah. you say yes yes yep yeah and then yeah and then once she did make her decision to flip on kishan she still had to convince rome and saul mostly saul uh that it was similarly in their best interest as well after all saul had been told his dreams of getting rid of rome would come true and he didn't want to be lied to again. But Genevieve convinced them to put their emotions aside and focus on what would be better for their long-term game, just like she had. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

One thing, I want to go there for a second because I think one thing that, again, Keyshawn really underestimated Saul as a player because in the last, speaking of making your votes count in the last vote, they left Saul out, teeny and Keyshawn. And he was like, and teeny voted for Saul.

That never feels good. I mean, I want to know what it feels like, but I'm sure it never feels good. Right. So to think that just because Saul is on the bottom, he's going to go with what you're saying. Yeah. Is a little, it's giving naive, you know, especially again, knowing Rome, he likes to be flashy.

He wants to be unexpected. Like, I'm sure that when Genevieve finally got him on board with it, Rome was so excited to make like, oh, my gosh, after I did all that, this is going to be so good. You know, so I think, again, it was him just thinking too much about the votes, but also like too little about the votes, honestly. Yeah. I mean, I will say one thing. It wasn't necessarily that Saul was on the bottom. He was also like giving him like, here is the person you hate the most on a platter.

Do you want to vote him out? So I will say that in, in Keyshawn's defense for how, you know, with Saul himself. So sure. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I can be open to that. All right. But it also was, it just feels like it was too soon it was unnecessary yes yes yeah oh and the last thing we haven't i also thought like kishan gave away the plan too soon to roam you know it's always like it's always the last plan that makes it that's not always true but with someone like

if you're hinging on Rome again he wants to make a flashy move he wants to do the unexpected uh I feel like telling him in the middle of the day the plan you know he's got all day to change his mind yeah yeah yeah I think that's something that a lot of players don't think about until they've been through it a couple of times themselves or they've, you know, listened to former players on podcasts.

Mm-hmm. All right. So I think it's about time to wrap things up. Liz, what are your final thoughts on Keyshawn? I know you just gave us some, but what are all of the rest of your final thoughts? I know that I was really harsh on Keyshawn, but I think

he was really fun. I think he's a player that could come back because yeah, Jeff and the gang and even we like to watch those big moves. Are they good for winning? Sometimes, most times not. But I thought he played hard and fast and it was really fun. He had some great confessionals and he's just super cute to look at.

So, you know, shout out Keyshawn. All right, Jessica. all right jessica i do think that kishan was someone who i i did not anticipate seeing such a a quick downfall for kishan because he did seem to have such great connections with so many people on his tribe and he did seem to have so many options and i think a player like kishan could have utilized that to his benefit because he didn't need to be front and center. He didn't need to be stirring the pot. He could have just sat back, enjoying the relationships that he had created and letting the other people kind of create their own demise, right? If you want to fan the flames a little bit, you certainly can,

but not to the extent that he was doing so. And so soon, it's not, it's not necessary just yet in the game because now this is where you find yourself. Sean, unfortunately you were voted out. And I just, I think that he really got excited about the big move idea and that I'm going to be able to make things happen. And I want to make things happen. And I want to stir the pot and I want, I want to, I want to cause chaos if I can and unfortunately when you are on such a small tribe you can't hide what you're doing it's a it's very difficult to hide behind for the people and not have anyone go well wait do you recognize what Keyshawn is doing do you see what's happening and so unfortunately for Keyshawn, I think he had

the abilities to be a really great survivor player, but he needed to put himself on a different pace and he could have gotten there if he just kind of slowed down, let the game happen around him. There was enough happening around him. He didn't need to help it, right? Like just let it be because it's already going there. Rome has got these trinkets. He wants to play. He wants to make moves. Let him, let him, let him do what he's got to do. And don't push him in a direction that's necessarily going to put you in harm's way because that player becomes very threatening to you too, right? When you are dealing with someone who has the ability to make a big move and has a trinket or a toy

or some type of advantage that he can use. You don't want to be on the receiving end of that. Unfortunately for Keyshawn, he found himself right there because he put himself right there. So sorry, Keyshawn. I do agree. You are super fun to watch. I love the just joy that you have in your face when you're on television until the moment it was crushed and then we we saw it we watched it leave your face in its entirety so sorry kishan but thanks for letting us chat about you today the introduction to my rules says something that we have to bring up from time to time uh and, you know, most of us, I think, take it for granted. But I note, the other presumption here,

and I know it sounds silly, but it needs to be said, is that the player actually wants to win the game. They shouldn't be there for the experience or to face the toughest opponent or whatnot. Or rather, they can be if they want, I suppose, but those are not the people who we're focused on here. Survivor is a game, and the goal is to win, period. That is the basic assumption here,

and these rules can lead good players to that end goal. To quote Harry, a super fan on Australian Survivor, people should play to win. Now, I have to kind of quote myself here, because Keyshawn made it clear in his interviews that his goal was more to have fun than to win. And if he wants to do that, and he enjoyed himself, and we enjoyed watching him, that's great for him.

But that's not part of our evaluation. Keyshawn said he was coming into the game with the plan to lie low and hide his strategy. And in his mind, I think he was still doing that, even as he injected chaos into the game, wherever he could. That's why he marveled to teeny that his name hadn't come up, but taking a lead role in pushing a strategy and naming someone as a decoy and urging people to argue are not part of an under-the-radar game. And he was destined to be caught,

especially when he was spending so much time thinking about his own plans, but not seeming to consider what was going through the minds of the other people around him. It was as if he thought he was the only one lying and scheming and strategizing. So if Genevieve told him that they were close, that meant it was true. If Genevieve said, sure, it's fine to throw my name out as the decoy, it must be okay. If Genevieve agreed about his plan to get out Rome, great, she was on board.

I mentioned earlier how Kishan said, my strength is getting to know people, really understand them and then get it and then being able to beautifully manipulate them. But Genevieve was clearly stronger in that area. She had her own game going on. She might have felt emotionally closer to Keyshawn. We won't know that till her own interviews, but even if she did, she came to play. And as she said, she wasn't going to let someone else dictate moves that would make her game worse. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, Genevieve had relationships with everyone and basically could choose which of them would be most advantageous for her going forward. Genevieve outplayed Keysishan at pretty much every turn she joined him and Tini in what seemed to

be such a tight trio that Kishan would not turn against her he wanted Rome out because he believed it was better for his game but she wanted to keep him because she feels it's better for hers he helped cause a bigger rift between Rome and Saul she brought them back together with a common cause that cause was to eliminate the person who thought he was running things and was causing chaos. While that outwardly might seem to be Rome, it was really Kishan. As he said himself, it's hard to play with a chaotic player. Kishan wanted to be the secret mastermind, but Genevieve felt that part already belonged to her.

And then she showed she was right. And that is why Keyshawn lost. That's right. Genevieve. See, she didn't have time to learn how to make fire, but she knows how to make certain fire.

You know, I need to take a little walk back from that, don't I? Maybe playing the video games for 40 hours instead of learning how to make fire was a better idea for her. I don't know. I mean, she clearly rocked it this episode. Oh, is she the video game lady? Yes. Yeah. I didn't watch any preseason stuff, but I did see that.

Somebody was like, Oh, I discovered this game. And yes, 40 hours. Yeah. Honestly, that's probably for the best.

You don't want to go in overthinking, honestly. Well, no, it was instead of practicing to make fire. Oh, shoot. She's in trouble.

Thank you. Listen to me okay make the fire I'm sweating you know it's bad when you see Liz's forehead oh my god it's a personal issue

that we are discussing Chica Chica alright let's end this thing I need to issue that we are discussing. Chica. Chica. All right, let's end this thing. I need a nightcap after that. All right, well, before we get to our predictions for next episode, which

we will get to in a moment here, so stay tuned, I want to remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are, in fact, available in poster form and t-shirt form and checklist form. So again, go to robhaswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed and you can get everything. That's right. Everything. Get it all. All right. What are we doing now prediction telling people well no uh so liz where can people

reach you uh want to let people know before we get to predictions oh yeah sure so i i'm a content creator i teach content creators like jessica and david how to grow their businesses if you really are interested in that you can go to to LizWilcox.com. Hit the hot pink button in the top right-hand corner. You can't miss it. I would love to show you how I was actually able to take off 90 days to play Survivor and recover from the loss of losing Survivor. That's LizWilcox.com. I love it. I am at JessicaLewis89 on twitter and i'm also at jessicalewis6789 on instagram but i mentioned this previously i will say it again david bloomberg has so much content

i just often take his for instagram however i do post during the actual episodes of survivor there's some live tweeting that's going on, and then obviously a post throughout the week. But I do not hold a candle to Mr. David Bloomberg over here, who has so many social media sites that he has an entire link tree, so you can see all of

the content that he creates and all of the areas that he creates it. So David, where is your link tree and all of the deliciousness that is included there? Yes, you could find my link tree at link tree slash David Bloomberg with a dot before the E in the URL. In addition to that, I am I am all over the place. You can first of all, be sure that you're watching the Big Brother version of Why Blank uh, Ovi Kabir as my co-host. The finale is Sunday. We will have our why blank one and the others lost, uh, podcast covering the final four, probably on Tuesday, again,

week leading up to the wedding. Um, and I'm also co-hosting the trade, our podcast for the traders Canada season two, that one I'm just taking off, but you know, the rest of the season, I'll be there. Um, besides going to all these accounts on my link tree, you could find me directly on Twitter and blue sky is at David Bloomberg on threads is at David Bloomberg TV. Uh, and then at David Bloomberg TV is also, uh, where you could find me on YouTube, Tik TOK and Instagram. I have been posting three or more videos per day,

often four, and that's been going on all summer long. Of course, that includes clips from Survivor and Big Brother, plus other shows like The Traitors Canada, The Summit, House of Villains, The Anonymous, you name it, I've got probably something on it. And if you're, if you're not subscribed to me on YouTube yet, I'm approaching 40,000 subscribers on YouTube. So I, I.

Look at you. Need a few more than a few more, but you know, if you want to go and go to at David Bloomberg TV on, on YouTube there, it would be appreciated that's awesome that's amazing and listen this man went from I don't want to do video podcasts to putting himself everywhere everywhere I love it I called that the Drake method you know like Drake was on every song in like 2010 that's's the Drake method, baby. I love it. Cheers to you. Sorry, I'm 45. I don't know Drake that well.

Well, just Google it, babe. Yeah. AI will tell you. Okay. Well, it'll probably tell me wrong. All right. Time for predictions. In the preview, we saw Jeff say there's a brand new survivor twist. And all I could say is, Jeff, it better freaking not be a double tribal council because I'm barely going to have time to pull together notes for one person, let alone two.

Yeah, but this is not a new survivor twist. It would be at this point. A double tribal. Better not. Better not. Okay. I hope you're right. They've got double tribals when there's still three.

Okay. I hope you're right. I really do. Me too. I'm very angry. Angry David. I like an angry David. Yes.

Whatever the twist is, at least a few people did not seem happy about it. Uh, it looked like Sam wasn't happy about something we were led to believe has to do with Andy and Sierra. Although of course, we've seen plenty of out of context clips in these previews already. So we really can't judge that. And now, uh, I do want to mention that Ari Bakker

who I frequently talk to on Twitter suggested that he thinks this is what

the new twist is that there's a challenge for reward and the teams are not the tribes but a random split mixing everybody up. And this could also...

Did you say boo or ooh? I said ooh. I love that. I hope that person's right. That is interesting. It could explain, for example, how Tiana supposedly throws Gabe under the bus. It could explain how sam hears concerning

information so i'm just gonna i have nothing better so it sounds good to me so i'm gonna sign on to ari's prediction here i think that's a great prediction because yeah they've never done something like that right um now all that doesn't really help determine who might go next uh yeah it seems hard to predict that gatta will lose an immunity challenge but there has just been so much build-up regarding sam and sierra and andy it feels like this storyline has to go somewhere. I've been worried, especially this past episode, that Ciara making more of an effort to

pretend to stick with Rachel and Annika as a so-called fake alliance could end up to her making that her real alliance. Especially since there's some bickering going on with her and Sam. Million dollar girls right there.

Yeah. But I really do think she and Sam are still solid. I think it's a red herring. So I'm going to say they stick together. And along with Andy, they blindside Anika. I don't agree. How dare you? I was looking at my little cheat sheet here. Yeah, he is.

And I immediately was like, Andy, I don't know why. I'm just going to go with Andy. I don't agree. Well, he's the one who jumped out at me. I was like, it's going to be Andy. And listen, maybe I should just ask my bag was like, it's going to be Andy. Listen, maybe I should just ask my bag of rocks, but I'll go with Andy.

I have no idea. I don't. Shoot. I walk into every episode and I'm like, well, let's see what happens. I don't know. Pick the hot one. I don't want any hot people to leave.

Oh, then, yeah. Well, we'll hold up the cheat sheet again, sis. Hold it up. Y'all, come prepared next time. I don't know. I feel like we might be getting someone who's barely been in the show. So maybe Kyle goes home.

I don't want to be such a cutie. But it's, I don't know. It's giving like, if, but then again, it's like, if the prediction is right, like they split into two like teams, you know, that could be where a lot of drama comes from and somebody gets blindsided. But I feel like we've had some really good vote outs you know like

no easy vote so to speak so maybe I feel like next week we get just like a casualty you know just like whatever and go that's my prediction it's going to be like a whatever they can get out of here I don't care anymore

would that be like, whatever. They can get out of here. I don't care anymore. Would that be like a Caroline? Well, she doesn't. She's not going to mention names after she just said that. Yeah. Like Caroline or Kyle. It's giving blue tribe. Anyone on the blue tribe.

My gosh. I'm so rude. You think I'm rude? But I'm so rude. You think I'm more sensitive? But I'm not. Not when the cameras are rolling anyway. Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I feel, yeah, I feel like maybe it's just like, like it'll be an exciting episode with a kind of fall flat.

Like, all right, who are they? Kind of person. Okay. Interesting. All right. So it's close to the survivor limbo, so sometimes that happens. True.

Yeah. Or it's like, if you're not in an alliance yet, you know, I know the time is coming quickly. Oh, we're going to tribal. Well, I know I'm not going to work with you so you might as well just go right now yeah maybe that okay shout out Jim

I'm so rude why am I like this are we done here Why am I like this? Are we done here? Probably not listening at this point. Oh, I'm going to get so much flack. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people to check out the RJP patron program at robhasawhebsite.com slash patron.

You know, Rob does all sorts of special podcasts that are put out just for patrons. Plus, there's the Facebook groups and Discord. So you can support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at robhasawebsite.com slash patron. And make sure you subscribe

to all of the RHAP Survivor podcasts by going to the newly updated website, weknowsurvivor.com. And you can see everything there. Select your podcast service of choice and have it all come to you. In addition to us, there's all the great survivor content, like the know-it-alls, the BNB, Survivor International, you name it, it's coming to you. So just subscribe. You should. And we want to thank everyone who works so diligently and hard at the RHAP website, not just on our podcast, but all of the podcasts and all of the content that

David has just mentioned. And then some Scott St. Pierre, Jessica Sterling, thank you so much for all of the editing and the producing work that you do on all of the incredible shows that are put forth. Thank you to the entire staff and team for the work that you do. We really appreciate it. And we know that the listeners do as well. And Liz, Applebee's mascot. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been super fun.

We really appreciate it. And I am so happy that you joined us. It was lovely to spend the evening with you, Liz. Thank you for your insight. Thanks so much for letting me ramble on. This was awesome. Yes, thank you. Let me add to that.

You know, I, you mentioned, you know, we, and I mentioned earlier, we got to hang out in Chicago and I just want to add that, you know, I said this on Twitter, but you know, Liz, everybody who came up to Liz, she took time. She talked to them. She was truly amazing with everyone. And I think most of the Survivor players are. But I've seen some who sometimes they're more interested in other things, talking to some of their own old friends.

These are old ones. But, you know, so just wanted to to mention that so yes thank you uh you know liz for for coming on here for joining us um you know we really appreciate it yeah of course i love i love interacting with the fans it's been something i didn't you know i went on to win right something i didn't think about was being a small part of people's joy and watching the show and being a part of the legacy and that has meant so so much to me so yeah hit me up on social media if you've got something to say i guarantee you i'll say something back. So see y'all soon. All right. I do want to mention, uh, I forgot to mention this earlier.

We know the live show is going to be in New York next week. Uh, obviously I won't be there. Uh, and neither will Jessica, unfortunately. Um, so, you know, it just, the timing on it didn't work, but we hope anyone who goes has fun. Like I said, we will be back in a little bit more than a week. Thank you both. Thank you, Jessica, as always. Thank you again, Liz. We'll see everyone soon.

Bye. feeling down David and Jessica will turn it around, they'll break down the rules and they'll show you how you played yourself and got voted out this is why Blank lost this is why Blank lost oh baby

this is why Blank loves.