RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why ___ Lost: Survivor 47 Ep 9

Episode Date: November 16, 2024

We heard over and over that Sol was in good with everyone. But if that was the case, how was everyone good with voting him out? David Bloomberg and Jessica Lewis welcome back special guest Dr. Jeremy Faust to figure out what led to Sol going from great relationships to a unanimous vote against him after a very live Tribal Council. Plus, Jeremy has a great story about having dinner with a certain singer who until recently was giving out prizes to Survivor players! At RHAP, we know Survivor, and we know Why Sol Lost.

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Help us end poverty and build a better GTA any way we can. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. If you lost Survivor and you're feeling down, David and Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how you played yourself and got voted out this is why blank lost this is why blank lost baby this is why blank lost Welcome back to Why Blank Lost.

I'm David Bloomberg, and I'm going to have to put my foot down and tell my co-host Jessica Lewis there will be no burping contest on this podcast. Thank goodness, because that was disgusting. All right. Listen, I can appreciate people that have a little gas going on and need to take care of it. But my word, how many scenes of Survivor do we need to have with just bodily functions taking over? 90 minutes. That's what 90 minutes gives us. It didn't need to be so much. But I can assure you, I will not be burping at all on this podcast. Okay.

Okay. Okay. And if we want some medical advice on, you know, why they burp so much, of course, those of you who are watching the video can see that we once again have a special guest. Dr. Jeremy Faust returns to talk to us again this season. So welcome back. be back good to have you good actually i never i never left after after the last one it said your journey isn't over do you want to go to the the y-blank lost edge of extinction i've been waiting here the whole time i'm back that's been a long wait i'm so very sorry for that and like like chris underwood i'm just going to win it. Oh. Oh, that was a deep cut. Yeah. This is, they invited me back and now it's like, oops.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it. They mentioned, you mentioned the season that shall not be named. So. That's right. Oh my goodness. Sorry.

Chris was so mad at us. He was so mad at us. And listen. After that Y blank one. Yeah. I know. He played the after he was so mad at us and listen after that y blank one yeah i know he played the hand he was dealt right oh yeah and we love him we don't like that yes version of the game but anyway we'll try to avoid too much hate yes yes we will not uh you know let anyone you know like chris uh think that so yeah no we love we love chris chris is fantastic yes uh well the second half of this week's survivor episode was quite chaotic and left

many people wondering what the heck happened and of course that's why we're here to follow our usual path to figure out what happened to solve uh we'll compare his game to my rules for winning that I originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since using all the non spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV interviews, social media, and secret scenes. The newest version of the rules can be found on the website by going to our dedicated page at Rob has website.com slash YX last feed and clicking on the link bubble for the survivor rules.

And speaking of social media, you'll hear about this more at the end of the podcast. I know not everybody stays till then, but you really should because, you know, after we talk about social media, we do our predictions. But now, you know, within the past like 24 hours, as we're recording this, the other two people on this podcast have joined blue sky. I've been there for like a year and a half waiting for everybody else to get there. Maybe two years. We finally joined you. Look, we were in a different room, a different edge of extinction room, right? Waiting to, to come over. Yeah.

I finally, I finally did. So someone had tweeted a note to me like, Hey, when are you going to come over to blue sky when you have a moment? So I thought I have a moment. So it's, there's really nothing there. It's very minimal. I just, I just literally created it prior to jumping on here. So I am at Jessica Lewis 89 on blue sky. So I tried to keep it the same so people can easily find me. So in addition to that, and we'll talk more about social media later, like I said, and before we address how Saul did in terms of the rules, we always have some other things to discuss from the episode. But first, Jeremy, how have you been other than, you know, hanging out on, you know, the edge of extinction? And what have you thought of the season so far? I've been great. It's a weird time for my

business, public health and medicine, with maybe a person who doesn't know much about that taking over the federal government's like whole apparatus for that so it's going to be an adventure i hope uh i hope it's uh it goes better than the edge of extinction but we'll see um and uh yeah other than that just my usual um i write this i will you know the plugs early i write my newsletter inside medicine where I talk about all that stuff that I do data, deep dives. And, uh,

I've, I've, I've loved this season. I just think that, uh, the edit again has been so great. I watched it on a big screen the other day for the first time in a while. And I was just blown away by the beauty of the Island and the slow mo shots of

people doing cool stuff. Um, I just, my hat's off to so many aspects of production other than vote manipulation and trinkets. Yes. Thank you. Yes.

But in terms of like the casting, I think I said this last time, even more so. The casting's incredible. The storytelling has been amazing. I just, I've been having a great time. Good. Very good. So you mentioned some of the things you've been amazing. I just, I've been having a great time. Well, good, good. So you mentioned some of the things you've been doing,

but I heard a rumor on the survivor grapevine that you've been hanging out with a certain person who's been associated with the show in the past. And in till recently had been like handing out prize money. Does Jessica not know this? This is hilarious. I have no idea what's happening. She's looking like, she's looking like Saul at a tribal council when Rachel is getting,

she's like, who was it? Yes. I'm fascinated right now. What is going on? So, so for some weird reason, I got introduced to Sia.

And we have become somewhat friendly over the past few months based on our shared love of Survivor. And so I was out in L.A. for a medical conference. Jessica is like totally starstruck right now. I'm stunned. Yeah. Hey, Sia, guess what? I love Survivor too. Yeah.

Go ahead. So my friend, our mutual friend, knew I was coming out and said, why don't we all have dinner with Sia? And I said, yeah, let's do that. Why not? And so we go over to her house. She hosts us for dinner. And I was so nervous because I was like, oh, my gosh, what if we don't have anything else to talk about? What is it going to be like?

And she comes in and she's like the most lovely, radiant, easy person, fun person to talk to about anything in the world. And she just starts pouring us wine. And it was just phenomenal. And she was so generous and lovely. And we had a great time. And I can tell you a couple of great little nuggets that you gave me permission to tell you. Oh, okay. Yeah.

So one of them was, was a specific message. I said, any, any message for the RHAP community, David and Jessica. And she said, just how much I love Jeff and all the recipients of my prize. And I love the study of humankind. That was her message. I'm now the CEO whisperer. That's right.

That's right. This is incredible. I've got a cool picture. I can actually probably show you guys. I'll try to bring it up. The other thing that she said that I could tell you, and I just thought this was absolutely crazy. We're sitting there and the drinks are going and, and she has a chef. Okay. She's, she's very wealthy. And, and the chef, I swear to God, I did a double take. The chef brings out chicken

and I'm like, didn't you give Ty like a hundred thousand dollars for being nice to the chickens? And she's like, and she's like, I'm not eating the chicken. She doesn't eat the chicken. Did you eat the chicken? Yeah. I mean, she serves, when CSRF do chicken, you eat the chicken. Yeah. But she did not.

Maybe it was a test. If you didn't eat the chicken, she was going to slip you some money. Yeah, exactly. I didn't. Oh, this is one of the thing. I'm trying to find this picture of us, but I'll find it in a minute. The other thing that that happened was she said, oh, I really wanted to surprise you. I wanted to be when you got here that Jeff Probst was here.

And I was like, shut up. And she and he couldn't come. And but she wanted me to know that she tried. And I thought that was like the sweetest thing in the world. Why are we not hanging out with Jeremy in person? What is going on? Oh yeah. This is something you don't know about me.

You know, like the six degrees of separation that everyone has. Yeah. I'm always like two for some crazy ass reason. Oh, thank God you're in my circle now. I love this because I want to be that, you know,

the third to your two. Let's do that. Yeah. I know. I know. Crazy cool people like a little bit. Like they're not like, you know what I mean? Like I would love to say she is like my bestie. Do you have a connection to like a Kevin

Costner at all? Just asking. Get there. A couple of moves. We're talking. We're definitely going to be chatting a little bit more. It's like when Omer made the joke at the end of last podcast and I said, well, Dr. Jeremy Faust will be coming. And Omer was like, oh, you know, oh, isn't he the guy who does all the COVID studies and everything?

And I was like, oh, wow. He knows Jeremy. You know, he knows of his work. And then he's like, you know, and then he's like, oh, actually, I was making a Fauci joke. And it didn't occur to me at the moment, but I should have said, well, he's actually interviewed Fauci. Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm probably the only person who was messaging with Fauci and Sia in August. Yeah. You know, like that's I'm like, that's that's I'm the I'm like the weird like lens of the universe. Like, like, like it shouldn't happen. I'm just you've blown my mind. I we're we're done.

This is I'm sorry, Paul, but this is this is so interesting. I'm so I'm just stunned. You to her house yeah wow well good for you i think that's incredible listen and if you if you chat with her again tell her i said hello i will she loves all the ex-players and she's she's just like the coolest person honestly you know like i mean she's definitely a celebrity you know like she's not a normal person and like you know she and in like the best way um and but like it's like but when you actually start talking to her she is and um but what's what I think is what I mean by that like why is she not normal it's like I think she uses her celebrity kind of the way we saw on the show like just to be extra giving extra nice you know so she wanted to you know she wants to like kind of go out of her way

to do nice things for people. And it's sort of a little bit larger than life. And she's just a beautiful person. Oh, she seems like a beautiful soul. So that is fantastic. Well, good for you. I'm glad that you still like the chicken. But it might've been a test, who knows?

And then she told me a lot of other things, which I swore I would not tell. And I'm not gonna tell and we will not ask yeah including i didn't ask why i didn't ask why the prize went away i i didn't i didn't ask but i was gonna say that's going to be the first thing in the comments if we don't at least mention that you don't know the answer i didn't ask that one i figured i just didn't want to put her on the spot like that but yeah well. Well, that was fair. That was nice. All right. And then later on, we're going to work on this. Kevin Costner connection. Okay. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. All right. Good.

I'd be more interested in the SIA connection than the Kevin Costner connection personally. Well, I'm listen, I'm incredibly interested in the SIA connection, but I already know he has it, but now I need to find out if he has a Kevin Costner one too. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. All right. Well, while Jeremy looks for Find this picture for you guys. All right. Well,

while Jeremy looks for the picture, let's get into the episode. There it is. Over there. That's a, Oh my God. Lucia's next to me in the, in the yellow.

And the front is my friend, Julia, who used to be on Saturday night live back in the day. And then that's her husband, Michael in the back. And that's her house. There it is. Julia,

Julia Sweeney, Julia Sweeney. I did not know your friend was julia sweeney that listen this just gets deeper i know julia's not a survivor no and this is my friend julia oh she's on you know julia and i okay whatever julia and i to be friends make sense julia is like a super intellectual nerdy writer person who happened to have a past life as like a saturday night live person uh and i was the reason this happened was i was like julia you have to get into survivor and she says no my friend sia already tried i was like i was like i know that

see a survivor i didn't know that you knew her yeah i'm stunned it's the my friend part that you didn't know about there yeah i love how he just drops these little nuggets like it's no big deal. No, it's a big deal. It's fun. It's fun. No, no. When you were talking about your friend, like, oh, and that's my friend. And it's like, oh, wait.

And she was on Saturday Night Live. Oh, like, okay. So there's another connection that you have. This is incredible. Amazing. I'm very impressed. It's fun. It's fun.

And a little jealous. All right. Well, getting into this episode, it's going to be tough to top that, but. I know. I'm ready. We are still here for you. We're going to put that aside and focus on you. Whether you like it or not is another issue, but you know, we're,

we're going to. But, you know, we're going to. We had this episode, one of the very rare actual live tribal councils. Oh, yeah. Because usually, you know, people are like, oh, live tribals, live tribals. And we're just sitting here being the, you know, naysayers like, no, that wasn't a live tribal. Now, of course, it wasn't because anyone was making a big move at tribal council, but because people didn't have time to get their act together before they all had to leave camp. Jeff told Dalton Ross in an interview that in rare cases where players get back late from a journey or the like,

and there is still ongoing discussions, they'll allow a little more time. And that's what happened here. But even so, that wasn't enough. And this is, of course, one of the problems we've mentioned when it comes to journeys. Six of the players really couldn't make concrete plans because they didn't know if one, two, three, or all four of the others didn't have votes. So they had ideas for plans. You might say they had a concept for a plan, but they could not fully create a plan in terms of voting. Yeah. And it's interesting that that was actually spoken during the episode by Genevieve as well.

was actually spoken during the episode by Genevieve as well and and to me I think as a player that's such a difficult position to be put into because you you want to be able to know where every where everyone's head is at to the best of your abilities right you want to be able to have those conversations with everyone and to be limited in time because of a journey it just puts everybody in i think an unfair position because it's not a position that's being created by the players it's a position that's being created by the game mechanics that have been structured in a way that i i think it can just throw off all of it and i have another complaint about that but i don't know if i want to do that now I'm sorry I'm complaining I mean we we we know it can throw things off because I I uh both skeeted and tweeted this uh that um you know if if they had given more time back in 41 remember that was one thing that Tiffany talked about Tiffany talked about was Evie got I think Evie got back from the journey

and they had like 10 minutes to talk before going to tribal council. And I mean, would it have changed things? Would Voce have been saved and the whole course of the season changed? I don't know, but it's a little weird that it happens in some situations, but not others. Yeah. that it happens in some situations, but not others. Yeah. I mean, I'd like to see some objective criteria. Like if we get back this much time later, then we will give them this much extra time. Well, and I do feel like it's not something that has to be set in stone either. I know that they're cognizant of the sun going down, of the look of things when they're traveling so they can get their shots. But and again, I'm not discounting the beauty of the of the show itself and production is doing such a great job with that. But the players are the main component of the show.

And so they need to have the most amount of time and what they need. And I do realize you got to call it at some point. And I know when I was out there, like they would, all right, that's it. You can't talk anymore and you can't continue to your discussions. But if they have limited time because of something that was created, that's cutting into their ability to have those discussions. I just feel like that there should be something put in place that does allow for them to have those discussions. I just feel like that there should be something put in place that does allow for them to have more time

in order to have those continued discussions. But not to say that the tribal council wasn't quite thrilling. It was very fun to watch for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, without jumping ahead, I did think the funniest part

of the scramble in camp was that Genevieve, of course, started the plan. But then Sam and Saul and others thought they could count on Genevieve to flip the boat back, not realizing at all what had happened. So they're coming to her. We need to flip the boat. She's like, sure. That's a great idea. Yeah. Sure. That's a great idea. Yeah. Very entertaining.

Yeah, it was good. I'm really confused about why Genevieve went in this direction, actually. I know that this is not Genevieve's episode, but I'm a little unsure about it. Well, it's not her episode, but I have thoughts on that once we get to the rules, for sure. Then those thoughts may trickle into the predictions too as a little bit of a spoiler there um yes um now the only other thing i wanted to mention uh here was that when andy and rachel were talking at the beginning of the episode about how they wanted to work with each other andy mentioned that he blindsided Rachel on the Annika vote. And I'm sitting there watching going,

she was literally trying to vote you out in that tribal council. I don't think there's anything for you to feel bad about there. Right. Well, Andy is an interesting individual in the way that he perceives certain components of the game. It doesn't always seem to be in line with what we normally see from players. And so I think he has a different sensitivity to situations like that. And so perhaps in his world, he feels that there is some part of her that would be upset.

But really, Rachel's probably like no i that's that's understandable completely but in andy's world it's different i don't know in survivor it seems even when you try to blindside someone and they blindside you successfully some some players still get upset they're like you blindsided me and they forget about the part where you that you were trying to get rid of them. I mean, this takes me all the way back to when, you know, in in the season that Michelle won, when one reason that she won was Sydney would not vote for Aubrey because she wrote my name down. Hmm. You wrote her name down in the same tribal council what are you talking about right doesn't that cancel each other out yeah yeah people get mad for weird reasons i was doing a

lot of re-watching to prepare for this because this is like the equivalent of a board exam for me hanging out with you guys and i have to prepare like that i was like doing flash cards um well hanging out with sia yeah exactly well, exactly. Well, she helped. She knows her survivor. And I was watching the one where Rome gets mad at Teenie, even though Teenie didn't have a vote. And it was like, it was the Keyshawn vote, I think. And he's like, you knew, but you didn't tell me.

It's like, but wait a minute. Like, she didn't even vote. I was like, why are you mad at her? Yeah. Well, you know what? We should talk a little bit about the losing of the votes because i mean i'm already complaining so why don't i keep complaining here's what i was thinking with this particular episode because we have 10 players that are voting correct and no we've are what oh fair point fair point we're supposed to have 10 players that are voting but we have nine and so essentially what's been taken away from the players the ability to have a tie right yes and so well it hasn't been taken away. You could have four one way, four another way.

Oh, certainly. A different way. Right. But then that gets into other permutations. Just the straight up like five and five. Right. Kind of situation that I was just kind of pondering thinking, well, that's interesting because I never really thought about it from that perspective. I don't like that they're losing their votes, period.

it from that perspective i don't like that they're losing their votes period but the fact that it can also stop that part of the game potentially i also find concerning as well i just wanted to point that out is this the place where we should talk about this issue in general because i really do have something about this with with saul's game and actually a lot of times with saul's game just in general if you have a problem with the votes situation. Well, I do, but it has to do with Saul's game. But I'm not sure what rule would go under. It's okay, Jeremy. I'll let you talk whenever you want.

Look at this. You play the see a card and Jessica is like, you do anything as long as you introduce me. Listen, I know how it feels to have him tell you you're going out of order. And I'm telling you, damn it, Jeremy, go out of order if you want. What do you feel about the losing of the vote? Well, I just feel like a lot of times recency bias. We remember the things that happened recently as like why somebody got voted off or didn't. And I actually really think if you go back to the first tribal that the red team had, the vote mess a production really sunk Saul's game. Because think about this.

Rome had a steal a vote. Oh, that one team was teeny teeny had her vote taken away. And so rather than any, that meant there were four votes. And so Rome had half the votes. So even if Saul had the perfect social game and could pull Genevieve, could pull either Keyshawn or Tini, who doesn't get the vote taken away, then they can't do anything about it. And so

Saul could have laid the perfect groundwork for a Saul to win a Saul-Rome face-off, but the vote manipulation meant that Genevieve was like, no, I'm not going to go into a tie. I'm just going to go with Rome and we'll move on. And so I think that actually that chain of events led to Saul's never having a really great alliance. And that's kind of why we're here. Yeah, I mean, I would disagree with that because, I mean, I don't disagree with the issue of taking away votes, but I would disagree with that read on it

because I don't think that's why Genevieve flipped at that time. And I will have some thoughts on that later, I think. But, you know, at the time, I think she just she just flipped. I mean, she decided she didn't. You know, I mean, it was you know, we covered it in why kisha lost uh as to why she decided to flip and i don't think it was the tie vote type of issue because they had rome so completely bamboozled that it wouldn't have been a tie vote anyway they could have gotten around his steal a vote if she had stayed with it. But Tini didn't have a vote. Yeah, I think there was two to two.

I think that there was, this is Shannon Guss of it all, like, who has what votes? No, but I don't think he was planning to use it, actually, was the issue, because he was so certain of where he stood that everyone was voting out Keyshawn

that you know, I did not study up and you know as much to go back on the old but my recollection is he did not plan to use it and it was going to be every you know he was threatening to use it right he was threatening but then you know he you know had these conversations and it was going to be the three of them against rome and then you know that would have that would have been it and even if there was let's so if there was a tie vote and he would have been one of the targets then he'd be still gone because he wouldn't have been able to vote. Yeah. Keyshawn.

Well, no. Rome. Rome. There are too many permutations. These are discussions we shouldn't even be having because nobody should be losing their vote, period. Yes. Yes. Because this is what ends up going on.

And imagine if you're a player and this is what you're trying to work through in your brain, considering lack of sleep, lack of food, and just the stress of the game. We're sitting here trying to figure it out. And we are in our homes. We've eaten. We're fine. We've watched it on TV. We've had a time to let it sit in our brain and fester a little bit.

And we're still confused. So if anything, perhaps you're confusing the players a little bit too. Yeah. Well, that's what Jeff likes. Dangerous fun. So we love you, Jeff. Just like Sia. Yeah. All right. Do we have anything else or anyone else that you want to discuss before we get to the rules? I do want to say one we get to the rules?

I do want to say one thing, and it's just about the show, this particular episode in general. And I think Jeremy might have already mentioned this, but I don't know if we were recording yet, but the editing portion of the, like, before Tribal Council with the music and just the, like when Sam was like, you want to blow this game up? I mean, it was like, it was stunning. I, I enjoyed it so much because it was so chaotic and even the cameramen were

like running, you could see that we're like, Oh my God, got to go this way. It was so fun. And that to me feels like survivor. And that is what survivor should be is those types of scramble moments where people are trying to play their their most intricate greatest best game we don't need all these other little trinkets to help them do that they can do this on their own because that's exactly what we saw happen so i just thought that was just incredible editing between the music the lighting the way that they just had all of the people coming together the names it's this it's kyle it's sue it's saul it's

and then we're going fantastic and also to like splice in the little confessionals in between where like genevieve was like there's so many still unanswered questions and this is what we're walking in tribal council with it was just it was magical i just loved it so much yeah by the way which by the way that confessional had to have happened the next day oh yeah yeah yeah some people were pointing that out i thought that was a spoiler i was like wait a minute you know the sun set i was like wait it hadn't yet that had to be yesterday oh they didn't turn on you yeah but yeah it was yeah I mean I think your your casual viewer isn't going to catch it but people like us we're watching and it's like oh this is a next day confessional yes you know and I think maybe I'm wrong there was someone who was talking in one of them

who forgot to talk in present tense it was Genevieve she said the sunset she said the sunset and we had, and we had to go to trial or something like that or something. It was that little moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian superstore with PC

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and I'll be putting them in my YouTube shorts at David Bloomberg TV. But before we get to how Saul did, we want to mention that the rules we're about to discuss are available in a much shorter and more colorful version in poster form. Go to Rob has website dot com slash YX lost feed. Scroll down to the poster, click on it, order it, and our shipping department will get it right to you. In addition, you can keep scrolling and get a T-shirt or you can get the checklist version on a T-shirt. So again, robhaswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed for all of that.

And I was considering something because there's like, the holidays are coming. What is that like Black Friday and whatnot? Perhaps maybe we should make a little deal on the posters for a bit. David, you and I might want to discuss that little rebate for the holidays. Well, now that you've put it out there, we can hardly not do it. I mean, I'm just saying it's just a fun idea, right? Where if we want to do a little

special on the pricing. So, yeah, I think that's something that we should definitely do. All right. All right. We'll announce that next week then or on Blue Sky. No, when Y Blank Law says there's going to be a sale, there's a sale.

There's no hourglass there's no turning back the clock they say what they will do and they do it that's we love you you're so reliable well we appreciate you too jeremy jeremy's gonna do our next commercial for us that's right well i think he just did uh he just doesn't know it yet i'm gonna clip that that's oh that's perfect you're a. That's your next TikTok right there. Jeremy, you are on TikTok. I'm going to do the wand off with the Why Blank Lost theme song about you guys.

That's my new goal in life. This is great. Why Jess is right. No, why David's right. Yes. Okay. Jeremy's definitely winning points today. Yes. Yeah. Love yes yeah love this all right well we heard over and over that saul was in good with everyone but if that was the case how did he end up being on the wrong end of a unanimous vote what led to him going from having great relationships

to literally everyone turning on him after a live tribal council filled with whispers and people running all over the place. At RHAP, we know Survivor, and we know why Saul lost. Mm-hmm. I love, everyone loves Saul. I love Saul.

Yes. The first and most important rule is, of course, the scheme and plot. And Saul certainly knew how important this was, even though we don't feel we saw the full extent of it. After Asia was voted out, it looked like

he was doomed to be next. But he managed to stick around and outlast two other players from his tribe to get to the merge. Once there, he said in interviews that he planned to work with the other two Lavo to kind of stay between Gata and Tuku. In the meantime, it seems like, as I mentioned, he was in good with just about everyone in the game. And indeed, he told Rob that that was the real reason Genevieve wanted him out. He had a number of independent allies rather than

one big alliance, which I think might have actually contributed to his downfall. Yes. If there was one thing I could say about Saul, I actually would find myself forgetting who he was on a tribe with initially, because there was so many connections he was making with so many people that i have to remind myself that oh no genevieve was on his tribe from the start because it didn't just didn't feel that way with all of the interactions and all the relationships he was forming with everyone he certainly made inroads with everyone and he understood how he needed to utilize those relationships to further his game and was cognizant of it.

We're like, well, I did that because I want that person to work with me. So like with Rachel, saving Rachel and knowing that he needed to keep her when they were trying to target Rachel. So I do feel like it was a very impressive but almost quiet game at the same time because it wasn't it just wasn't in your face. But you saw it face but you saw it but you saw it in a very quiet fashion yeah i think that his pre-merge game was so controlled by trinkets because of what rome had that so that then you know the first the first two votes really are so much about rome's power that he couldn't even scheme and plot the way he wanted to. And the first time we actually saw a vote where Saul was a part of

it, where trinkets didn't rule the whole thing, was the first Merge episode. And I call it the Merge because they're tribe mates. They actually say tribe mates. I'll come here. And what happened there is that Rome started going around saying that Saul says this and Saul's bad.

And actually Saul won that face off, right? Saul said, no, this is how Rome plays. He had really good communication. He built that. It could have very easily been a close vote between Saul and Rome. But I think Saul actually showed us that he could play the game there. I think the scheming and plotting part that I really think that he might have mishandled a little bit, and this comes to rule seven as the trinkets, is the decision to protect Rachel.

Because I actually think that that was big move-itis. And that what he really needed to do with his alliance having kind of fallen apart, the red team really kind of being this sort of in-between place, was really to decide, like, am I going to go with the gata yellow or am I going to go with toku? And by, by giving Rachel that, that out, he really said, okay, I'm going with gata. And, and he, and if, whereas if he'd given it to toku, he could have said, Hey, I gave it to you. It was, it was so that she didn't have you guys.

And he could have like very much glommed on the toku. Instead he goes with Rachel and never got a, but then like right away, he's like, Hey, you know what? I want to put Sam and Andy against each other. And so he actually,

the second he made the choice to save Rachel, he didn't make the, he made a decision to undermine that Alliance. He was like him and Rachel, but he should have been thinking about the Alliance. And if he wasn't going to, if he wasn't going to save the whole God Alliance, he should have just given something to the blue Tuku people and sent Rachel packing. That's a fair point.

Yeah, I think this goes back to how he had all these individual one-on-one relationships. And if you have a bunch of allies who are all independent, they don't realize that all of them are, in theory, pulling in the same direction. So they can think that they're kind of alone with you. Oh, I've got Saul. Oh, I've got Saul. But if you solidify that into an alliance, if you get those people together where everyone knows what's going on, they're more likely to stick together as a group. I still think he deserves credit for all the allies he made, even when it came to someone like Andy, who he voted against as the backup target

and then flipped what could have been a negative to a theoretical positive. Yeah. Like you said, Andy against Sam and Sierra, while also creating an alliance with him, because nobody would expect the two of them to work together after that. And then he had, you know, a couple other of his secret agents as well, like Sue and Rachel, who other players would not necessarily have expected to be his allies. Of course, in the end, they weren't very good allies. And in his interviews, he said they were all fired from Saul's secret agents. They're all fired.

Well, that's what I was going to say. He does a really nice job trying to make bonds with the blue people. He's like Sue and Kyle. There's a moment with all of them. He's like Sue, you know, and Kyle. There's a moment with all of them. Even with Tiana, there's a moment. And then he just sort of goes away from it. And then secret agents. And here's my question.

Which is the worst alliance? Saul's secret agent or the Q plus one? Like, which one was the worst alliance? I can't. That ranking is arbitrary. And oh, shoot. What's the rest of the quote capricious capricious yes I can't believe the lawyer

didn't know that what that was the next thing that yeah no I did not I did not know that I'm not great with quotes I apologize but I I will say this though that I do think that that is a really valid concern with what Saul was doing. It's one thing to create those bonds individually. But then, yes, you have to be able to bring a group together. And if you're not

bringing a group together, then you're failing in the numbers portion. But I guess the flip side would be, but if they're all on my side, I shouldn't worry about having the numbers because they all think they're with me. And so then I wouldn't be targeted because everybody is with me. And so I think maybe in Saul's world, he thought, I don't need to create a group. If I have an individual relationship with each person, each person will then not want to target me, which means I essentially have the whole group. They just don't know that I have the whole group.

They didn't know it so much that they voted him out. Right. But here's the thing. What did Genevieve realize? Well, right. That Saul had everybody. Right. And this is what takes us to the second

rule which says not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret now we just discussed that having a bunch of independent allies can have downsides and another one which is you know front and center in this rule is when someone realizes you're in good with a bunch of other people and you haven't told them, they don't typically think, oh, good, we can pull them all together and work as a team. They think, what the heck? He's working with all these people, which means I'm not special like I thought I was. And hurt feelings come in.

Yeah. And the rules talk about being at the center of a web of people, but warns that it's difficult to do and you have to ensure she said on the show, he's good with everybody. So one way or another, you know, she caught on with what was happening. She may have been the first, because Saul also mentioned to Rob that everyone's name had come up as a target at some point, except his.

Yeah. And that ends up becoming kind of a red flag right if nobody is talking about this person maybe everybody should start talking about this person yeah i mean when when genevieve decided to turn on saul she used some things that he had said earlier in the day though it seems like she twisted it to her own purposes a bit uh teeny saul and sam were talking while genevieve was there and i mean from what we saw she was part of the conversation but mostly just listening um teeny brought up gabe and sam noted he's tight with sue and caroline teeny was the one mostly mentioning Gabe.

And, you know, Saul talked about him being strong. And then he told us that at some point they need to get him out. And that's what he's trying to do. But we didn't see him specifically say that in front of Genevieve. I don't it might have happened. And they just decided not to show it because they had a confessional of him, but it also could have been that Genevieve was like, well, I want to target him.

So I'm just going to say he said this because he was in that conversation. But, but then he also told Rob that he was in good with Gabe. So I think, yeah, that Genevieve just picked and chose her words carefully in terms of who to blame you know she even told Gabe that Saul and Tini were tossing his name around and said that Saul and Tini want to play between Gata and Tuku

which I mentioned earlier was something that all of the Lavo including her had been talking about. So, yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, someone might say, well, why are you mentioning this in the second rule? You're talking about what Genevieve did, but even though he trusted Genevieve, the problem was she got far too much information from him and was able to use it. His scheming was no longer secret because of her.

And we could say, well, you know, she was a tight ally of his. Yes, but everyone was an ally of his. So who was he telling information to and who was he not? And trusting that, you know, it wouldn't circulate. Yeah, I think this is sort of like the Rob, Boston, Rob rule, like get an Alliance. And I think that he, and then I had rules before Boston, Rob,

I just want to make that clear. I didn't say who came first. Um, but the idea here is like, he comes into the merge a little bit looking for a new home. And I think he ends up coming across as a bit of a flip flopper. He says, I kind of want to work with the two crews.

And then he doesn't. And I just like maybe um he didn't he actually the reason this is in rule two is that he i think he was kind of analytical in a lot of ways and maybe he didn't stop to like make those deeper connections which is strange because he's so likable. Like I think that he's like so darn likable and charming and all that, but it somehow it just didn't like congeal into votes. And I think, so I'm actually harking back to a really old thing where he was, he and Rome were already having this war and Rome was trying to sell them on the Asia vote,

Asia vote, excuse me. And, and, and Saul was like, wait, bro, explain this to to me like it was very analytical and it was it was very scheming and plotty and I'm thinking okay Saul what you need to be doing right now is actually just bonding with this dude he's your enemy bring him close to you

but I think that Saul is kind of the poker player that he may be in the background which he does do he was just sort of like gaming it out as opposed to like let me see if i can convince this guy who i hate um who he hates to this day i mean gosh in the exit press he wasn't like oh i love rome he's like no i don't um but but like that's really hard to deal with you never want to have literally that's the quote um like i think that he was sort of like huh let me let me talk talk game with this guy as opposed to like let's see see if we can bury the hatchet and actually not play emotional, but make an emotional connection. So I think that he maybe was a little bit strategic in those moments when a different thing would have helped him more. Yeah, well, he did actually mention something about that that I think is very much in line with with that observation.

with that observation. When he was told by Sam that he's the vote, he said the normal Saul would have looked at that and said, okay, well, let's take a step back and let's try to really take a look at this. And he said, but the Saul in that moment was like, how do we change this? What do we have to do? This is what needs to happen right now.

And so I think that probably Survivor know, survivor has that effect on people's ability to, to rather than look at something in a rational way and say, oh, well, let's work through this problem together. Let's try to, let's try to sort out our differences and figure out why this happened. You immediately, it's like defensive and, and you, you want to figure out how you can stop whatever is happening from happening because it's not in your best interest. And I think Saul, unfortunately, found himself having to do that a lot out there because of Rome. And he was always kind of put in a position where I have to try to stop the train instead of just getting to jump on the train and just relaxing for a minute, because I'm not I'm not even an invite on this on this train. Right. I have to have to like try to jump on as it's moving.

And so I, that probably affected his ability greatly because I don't think he ended up playing the game that he wanted to play when the game started because he was having to play with somebody like Rome. Yeah. Nobody wanted to play the game with Rome in that, in that, in that way. Right.

Oh, and, but unfortunately you have to adjust, which. Yes. Kind of brings us to the third rule, right? Well, not quite because I did want to mention another situation where Saul's secrets were revealed, but not really due to his own fault. He said in interviews that he kept his relationship with Rachel, a secret, but she accidentally shed some light on it, at least somewhat after she got the advantage in tribal council where,

you know, when she had been stuck with the two crews, she came back to camp and asked him publicly if he sent it. And now he denied it at the time and didn't reveal it to her privately till he said like a day and a half later. But just the fact that she would ask him is kind of a tip off for a savvy player that. Right. Oh, the only reason she would be asking him is if the two of them are tight. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, again, he didn't do this, but information about him was revealed.

Poor Saul. Everyone's telling his secrets. Yes. All right. Now we can move to the third rule, which tells players to be flexible. Jeremy, how do you think Saul did in terms of this rule? I think Saul did quite well, again, with the hand that he was dealt in some situations. I think Saul did quite well, again, with the hand that he was dealt in some situations. Starting pre-merge, I think, again, the big thing is, how do you play when Rome as a character is there, as a personality, and an armed and dangerous Rome with all of these trinkets? And Saul wanted to vote Rome out so bad.

But in episode three, he voted for Kishon. He did. And I thought that showed a lot of flexibility and thinking of the long game as opposed to Teenie voting for Saul randomly. That was not thinking ahead. But Saul kind of kept the long game in mind there. I thought that was good.

And he survived. So I thought that was really good. Remember, he survived. He out that was really good remember he survived he outlasted Rome which is is a victory for Saul if nothing it's not a million dollars

but he did it's not a million dollars Sam but he did outlast his big foe and I thought that was a big thing but then kind of

post-merge he shows quite a lot of flexibility or at least tries to he certainly tries to work across tribal lines he is trying to make these connections with like quite a lot of flexibility, or at least tries to. He certainly tries to work across tribal lines. He is trying to make these connections with the blue team.

In some ways, he was so flexible. Teenie's like, why not Kyle? And he's like, sure. Why not Sue? He's like, great. There was a little bit of flexibility. Anyone but me. Which is, again, a great strategy.

Prop to the queen sandra um but i felt like maybe it um it sort of it it told a story of him that that was that he didn't have the alliance and so his flexibility he was very flexible because he had no other choice so i think that really kind of uh summarized like of summarized his fate in the game. But yeah, another one is just little things. There's a moment where Rome wants to do something in a challenge, and you can see on his face he's annoyed, but he's like,

you know what, fine, Rome, you do it. And I think that he was very zen. He used that word many times. He had to be the most zen. And I think he actually did succeed in that. I think it very easily could have come to a big volcanic eruption and his sort of oh yeah who he is and his his view of the of like the long game helped him uh stay out of trouble and last as long as he did yeah yeah yeah i think considering what we've said about him you know having relationships with pretty much everyone, I would agree he's he's was flexible.

You know, that that goes all the way back to the first vote on his tribe when Teenie and Keyshawn asked Asia if she would vote against Saul. And she thought it was a loyalty test, as we discussed at the time. And she said no. Saul, however, was asked the same question and he went the straightforward and as it turned out correct route uh by saying yes he would vote against her if it meant staying himself um you know and then of course he was happy to go against rome like you said he wanted rome out but when the tide turned uh he was willing to flip and get rid of Keyshawn, despite how much he wanted Rome out. He described in an interview how he saw Genevieve talking to Rome.

And at that moment he knew the jig was up. So he went and joined in so he could pretend to be with them rather than against them. And you know, that one had to be painful for him. Yes, I think it was. I also think too, that he should get some credit as far as flexibility is concerned by switching up the type of game he wanted to play coming into survivor. He had one version in his own brain. And there's something that we've talked about on this podcast a lot is that you have to play with the people that you are given. You might come in with a plan, but if your plan doesn't jive with somebody else's plan, you have to be able to switch things up. And he actually acknowledged that in his exit

press that he came into a circumstance with Rome and realized, I'm not going to be able to play the game the way I wanted to and had to play it differently. So I think that gives him a lot of flexibility because he didn't stick to his guns and he didn't create an issue. He didn't blow up and there wasn't a big, you know, set of fireworks because we've seen players do that where they just kind of like, no, this is what I'm doing. This is how I want to do it. And he never did that. So I think that that's something else that really it helped him in the game as frustrating as it must have been for him to have to play that way yeah he he had to play from the bottom but not because he was a bad player or he didn't think bad it was again just because of this this fate that he ran into this particular tribe member who had particular unusual power in the game so and again, he never really recovered from that.

Yeah. Well, related to that, Jessica, the fourth rule tells us, tells players not to let their emotions control them. You kind of talked about that a little, but go ahead and expand. How do you think he did here? Yeah, he did great because he could have

really lost his shit. Excuse me for saying that, but I mean, some of the stuff that we saw happen... Let's be honest, if it were because he he could have really lost his shit. Excuse me for saying that. But I mean, some of the stuff that we saw. Let's be honest. If it were me, I would have. OK, well, you know, I mean, it the things that he had to tolerate with Rome and his ability to maintain his composure while tolerating it was fascinating so he recognized that he could not become emotional and he also was trying to be very polite to Rome like can I just have some some time alone please and Rome's like nope nope I'm staying with you I'm following you

it's like having like a you know little two-year-old um cousin that just like won't leave you alone or a four-year-old cousin or whatever. But I do think that he certainly did not let his emotions control him, especially you've already mentioned the Asia vote, even though he wanted to work with Asia, that was his number one, but he knew game was more important. And so that was the decision that was made. So I do think that he, a lot of times throughout this game had to put his emotions aside because he had to look at what's going to be best for my game versus what's going to best for my friendships and so i do think that he certainly excelled here yeah yeah i agree i think saul did a great job of taking the game as it came to him and letting most things roll off his back.

You know, he was, he was able to put aside the Rome stuff and, you know, to the point, like I just said earlier, you know, flip against Keyshawn rather than pushing too hard to go for Rome. And I think a lot of his success stems from something he described in his interviews about how Jeff expected him to come in a lot more fiery, but as he sat in pregame Ponderosa, he was stress-free and realized how lucky he was to be there. Something he still echoes today. You look at his Instagram, you look at his other social media, that's what he talks about, you know? So it was, it was just almost all fun from that point on as he was like, I am just so lucky to be here and I don't have the stress of everyday life. Oh, that's a great feeling. So nice. Yes, it is. Let me tell you.

as the entire first episode. Yeah. It's good times. Yeah. All right. Well, we could go to the fifth rule, which reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game.

Jeremy, how do you think Saul did here? He is one of the nicest people on the planet, apparently. Yeah. So I think that he wins in the game of Survivor in this rule wins in the game of survivor in this rule and in the game of life in this rule i just want to be this guy's friend i want to hang out with him um you probably will be a great chance in like in like another couple months we'll probably be

hearing about you having dinner with him so all my jams are like wide open for you pal um um um look there are a lot of places where i think you can exhibit the this rule well and there's sometimes a little tiny things like sue is like i'm 45 and saul is like i'm 42 uh let me tell you i'm 45 okay um we can tell who 45 year olds are okay Okay. Like, so, so Saul's 45. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Saul's 42. So he and I are like the, Saul and I are like the same age ish, you know? So Saul's looking at Sue going, you're 45, huh? Uh-huh. And he was so sweet about it. You know, he's like, oh, and look at us. We're like, awesome. You know, like, and he just went with that, you know? So I thought that was like, it's always like the, uh, the rule of improv or the rule of Survivor is just say yes. And yeah, so I think that was nice.

You know, I thought that he handled like awkward little moments. Again, like he tried, I get, you know, he tries to make amends with Rome for a hot second here or there, but, you know, try to play nice there. You know, he was not too fussed about the blind sides. He's like, oh, you guys got me so you know i try to play nice there um you know he was not too fussed about the blind sides he's like oh you guys got me you know like um and i think that just shows like that does not

show that he doesn't care it shows that he's just kind of well it's kind of being flexible but it's also like oh now i'm angry it's like pretend to be nice play the social game right and just move ahead um i think that uh another one is like him with kyle you know they have this moment which is oh, now I'm angry. It's like pretend to be nice, play the social game, and just move ahead. I think that another one is like him with Kyle. You know, they have this moment, which is kind of like a weird moment with cultural references. And he kind of just was like, sure, you know, I'll just play right along with this, Kyle,

and I'll be your new best friend. Rather than being like, that's weird. You know, that could have played out a lot of different ways. And yeah, I just feel like in general, he was a guy who did his very very best to be nice x maybe with the one exception of that sort of moment with rome with the like can i please just not be like literally um shadowed by you for the next five hours and all that that was the only time where i feel like he just couldn't pretend to be nice. He was just angry.

But I think that was like a bridge too far for anybody. I didn't feel. The question is, was he too nice? Did he lack edge? And I don't think so. I think that he did have his moments where, the example I'm thinking of is like, he really got past the teeny vote for him pretty quickly.

And I would have been pretty pissed about that um and and he really wasn't so he was just he was being nice he was going along with it but i was a little i kind of wondered why he was is he is he just so nice in life that um he uh it takes a roam for him to to actually like boil over with like the killer kind of Viper side of his personality. Which he didn't even do with Rome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I obviously agree. We talked earlier about how he was in good with everyone. And that wasn't just from a strategic perspective, but a social one as well. perspective, but a social one as well. And, you know, I think that the social part led to the strategic part for him in many cases, such as how he discussed in interviews that he was close to

Sue because she had an uncle with Parkinson's and he, of course, works with a lot of Parkinson's patients. And then, you know, to again, go back to Genevieve's thoughts. She said, Saul's been working with everybody. Everybody feels like they're his BFF. It wasn't just everybody thinks they're strategically with him. No, they feel like they're his best friend. And he won't be mad if they vote him out. Actually, here's a question.

I was thinking about this thing. We may have mentioned this last time I was with you, but this whole thing of whether or not people should lie about things in their life. And I know that there's this whole, like, thou shalt not be a lawyer on survivor. Right. And I get that that's a thing, but I think that it's really interesting how many little lies kind of can bite people. And I think it was in, in Saul's interview with,

with Rob Sestranino, where he said that he didn't quite say what he does for a living. But then since Sierra is a nurse, she kind of sussed it out. And it was okay, because he kind of smoothed it over. But it just led me to think, when you tell these little lies, what it does is it puts distance between you and people. And you have to be thinking in your head about what lie you told and i think that that maybe hinders your social bond and so i i i would just say if i ever have the the chance to play the game i'm not going to like lie about thing about things i don't have to lie about because i think it just ends up just in a million little ways like hurting you and like imperceptible little things like that you can't now anyway cause you've been on the podcast.

Well, listen, John Lovett, John Lovett, apparently, you know, a rumored podcaster. Yeah. It was funny that more people knew who Asia was than knew who he was. It's definitely a selection bias in that study there. By the way, speaking of the social game, I feel like there's like a miss also with Saul having not, he connected with Sue. And the other person I really think he reminds me of

in this game is Caroline. Like a very genuine person, rolls with the punches. Caroline's going to go down as like the person who's like the most like positive like oh you got the idol yay not like you didn't tell me yeah i mean it was a big move right no she's yeah and i kind of feel like saul kind of has a little bit of that minus the hilarious moments in the challenge like rome that ain't it that ain't it rome nope that's not the piece rome yeah but mostly i feel like he was kind of like a really positive, like I would love in a, in a, in a counterfactual universe to see like, like Sue and, and, um,

uh, Saul and Caroline, like nice, normal grownup people, you know, alliances, you know, but, but, but it didn't happen. No. That would be so nice. Nice, normal grownup people. By the way, speaking of lies, is it possible that Kyle is a lawyer? And that he is the longest Kaiser Soze Khan? That would be just amazing.

Well, I think we would know that, though, because then he would have lied to everyone in pregame press as well. And it turns out he was never a vegan either. He eats chicken wings at home all the time. Listen, if Sia was still giving money, she would be taking money from him. That's right. You went the wrong direction. Right. You ate the chicken

when you weren't supposed to. Yeah. And also, don't don't fit in an item you can't see if you don't eat meat. We've already mentioned that. Well, except for the whole thing about losing the vote. They have no choice.

They have to just get rid of their money. Right. No, and I know. And that's fair, what's so crazy yeah stop it jeff stop it talk to sia i'm sure she'll tell you she did say she did say that um when she went out she went out to fiji one time um she was there um at least once and uh she tried the challenge and she was like it is so much harder than it looks Jessica can you confirm all the challenges

I can confirm that you feel like you're going to die when you get done these challenges but in the moment you're like I can do anything and you make yourself do it and it's yeah it's pretty painful I still have that video that I made of the sand challenge. Here we go.

The sand challenge again. Yeah, I was almost murdered by Jeff Probst. So there's that too. So yeah. Yeah. They're not they're not easy. They're definitely not easy. All right.

Well, the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat. And apparently Saul was a big threat by not being seen as a threat. Or at least that's the way Genevieve talked about him as she called him a quote, subtle threat. Oh, that's fascinating. Nobody was talking about. He added to Gabe that if Saul skated by, she added, sorry, that if Saul skated by a couple more votes,

it would be Gabe, Kyle, and then her, which I was scratching my head a little bit on, but that was her mindset. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, Saul told Rob that the real reason Genevieve wanted him out was that she realized he was in good with everyone and everyone had their name mentioned as a potential target except him. So that was what I mean when I say he was a threat because he wasn't seen as a threat. I think that once she started talking about him, spreading his name around, it shook people loose and they opened their eyes a bit as they realized, a bit as they realized, oh, he's not just good with me. He's good with everybody. And now suddenly the person who wasn't a threat to me becomes a threat to me. This is like that, you know, quiet assassin that makes their way to the end that nobody was thinking about. And I think that

his individual relationships he was likely hoping would help carry him to the end because if I'm friends with everybody, then no one will vote me out. And I have a group without having a group necessarily. And so I do have to give a lot of credit to Genevieve for noticing this and realizing it and thinking, God, he's just gonna make it to the end because he's just,

everyone likes him so much and they don't feel threatened by him because he's inclusive and he's talking to them and making them feel special with the strange conversations he's willing to be involved in and have with people. And yeah, so good on her for picking that up and then shining a light on it for everybody else. But sad for us because we were really liking Saul and having him in the game so but yes that makes that's that's that makes perfect sense I think that again I'm obsessed with the Rome Saul blow up I just think that that's such a big part of this but rome was obsessed with saul not getting the idol because he was like look if this guy gets the idol then he's gonna like get rid of me and the

four the lava four will be solidified and they'll go to the end and i think that rome was right so i think that the that saul would have been a huge threat coming out of the merge in a lot of other universes that didn't give rome as much power as he had but he didn't come he came into the the merge a bit wounded, kind of a wounded soldier and had to try to rebuild. But I think that the place where he actually came up in his threat level was just in this last episode and it, but it goes back to the previous episode. And this is the whole thing about the choice to give Rachel the trinket,

the get out of that tribal council with the blue team. And so what Sam after that is like oh um that's that's that's great right that's fantastic we're gonna work with this guy with the saw guy you know and and then they vote out sierra and he's pissed and so i think that then sam wants to go for a red person and who's red teeny geneie, Genevieve, Saul. Yeah. Saul is by far the tallest poppy in terms of like all the dynamics that they're aware of. So I think that by like the choice that he made with Rachel, he then became just momentarily a tall poppy just long enough that they were like, nope, he's got to go. I mean, except nobody knew he made that decision.

Right. Right. You know, I mean, they might have sussed it out, but as far as we know, Rachel didn't tell anyone. Last I saw, I think Sierra said in her interviews that they thought it was Andy.

So, you know, they didn't know. And Sam was the one who tried to save Saul. Right. Which was a very confusing part of that episode And Sam was the one who tried to save Saul. Right. Which was a very confusing part of that episode. That really confused me. It was like, I want to get them. I want to get them.

I want to blow this game up. Right. And blowing up the game was getting out Sue, which I thought was fascinating as well. So, yeah, that, you know, yeah. We'll have to wait for sam's exit interviews to figure out what was going through his mind exactly in that moment but it's interesting to me that genevieve didn't want to work with him and that that she didn't she thought he was more of a threat than a potential person to get further in the game with yeah and i don't know why that is and is it because genevieve is so confident in her

ability to make stuff happen because oh my god she's one of the most amazing strategic players we've seen in quite some time or did she know something about saul that was like now this guy's amazing this people are going to figure out how awesome he is and it's going to be a problem i mean we didn't see it this time but remember way back early in the season, she could read people's minds. She was reading Keyshawn's mind. We saw the video of it. So, you know, maybe she knew what was going on with Saul. But yeah, I'll have some more thoughts in a few moments on that one.

Save that apparently. Can't jump ahead. That's right. But first first let's go to the seventh rule which covers idols and advantages and game mechanics and saul had a few things going on here uh first of course you know was him giving rachel the advantage and he did wisely keep it to himself uh eventually tell rachel um you know that part's good. Keeping it secret's good. But it also didn't exactly bond Rachel to him in the way he perhaps thought it might.

Like, Jessica, you've talked about this before. After David used his idol to save you, you felt a bit of a bond there. There was a bit of a bond, yes, because I was very grateful that he did that for me i was not expecting him to it came out of left field but it also gave me pause because i knew i couldn't sit next to him if i made it to the end he could not be sitting in that final three with me because all he had to do was say i saved her her. Otherwise she would be gone. So there's, it's like a blessing and a curse

when you find yourself in a situation like this because you helped someone, you've essentially helped keep them in the game. But now that person is indebted to you for that reason. And so do you want everybody knowing that Saul did that for you? Or do you want to nip that in the bud? Because that's a big move for him

to announce it, the final tribal. Like, look what I did. That was me. You were all wondering who did that. That was me. And so I think that it is one of those situations where it can work against you instead of creating the bond

that you're necessarily hoping that it does because that person then is put in a position where they have to justify their game when they're sitting potentially next to the person who saved their game yeah i don't think he was or she was thinking that far ahead oh i don't think she was either but i'm saying that that's that is a genuine concern to have but i I do think that Rachel is very, she's kind of laser focused with what she wants to have done. And I don't think that she's necessarily going to let somebody else sway her. She is not an emotional player. And so I think that for her, she was like, oh, well, this is, that's great for me. Thank you to whoever did that. Now I can go back to my plan

and my, and doing what I want to do and not necessarily feel a particular way because of a decision he made. She's still keeping it about Rachel instead of, oh, well, now I owe something to him. No, he made that decision. That's his decision. I don't have to justify it. I don't need to make him feel better. I'm still going to play my own game. better I'm still gonna play my own game yeah and I I do think Rachel felt indebted to him but she wasn't going to be obvious or risk her game over it so there's the feeling and then there's the not going with the feeling right right so like when Genevieve told Rachel Saul was the target she was torn because she knew she owed him. But as she said, she wanted to show her new allies that they could count on her. Right. And,

and I would say she made the right decision. You know, there is no point in going down with the sinking ship as unfortunate as that is for Saul. I don't know what more he could have done to leverage that advantage after he, other than what you brought up Jeremy earlier about not playing it for her. Right.

Yeah. Okay. I want to ask Jessica a question. And I'm going to set it up by the opposite. In my life, I get to interview really cool people, including this guy who's a friend of mine who literally survived Ebola. And I interviewed him and it's out there. Here we go again. Yeah.

And, but, but he'd never done a thing where he really told people what it felt like. It was always about like what it's, you know, the whole issue of Ebola and the disease. But I was like, no, no, I want to know like what your hospital room was like. And it was like crazy fun. So let's go the opposite.

What does it actually feel like to have somebody play an idol on you? Like, what is the actual feeling in the moment? And then how long does that feeling last? Like, just take us through those like neurotransmitters. Fascinating. In that moment, it's horrifying because you are like, well, because I, and you have to understand and I'm bringing you way back.

But when I'm sitting there, I'm sitting next to Sunday and Sunday is reassuring me that you're fine. Like Sunday keeps telling me, Jessica, you're fine. Jessica, you're fine. Because there was things that were happening. And but Sunday was in my ear. And so I was like, OK, well, Sunday's like at that point, I felt like she was my number one. So then it's like confusion, because in my head, I'm like, okay, well, I'm still good and everything should be okay. And then all of a sudden, here comes my name.

And I'm like, okay, well, one is fine. Oh, here comes my name again. Oh, my God. And you start realizing I should be going home right now, but I'm not because that guy over there played this little thing for me. right now, but I'm not because that guy over there played this little thing for me. And so it is, it's kind of an out of body experience because you're realizing the, just the gravity of it all. Like I was, I was going to be going home. I was going to be walking out and instead I'm not, and somebody else is. And so there's a lot of things that you're processing in that moment when it's actually happening. And if I could have just crawled away and hid,

I would have done that because you are, you're also feeling, I suck at this game. You know, that's the other thing you're starting to realize because you're like, now all of a sudden, everything I thought I was doing so well, um, is, is leaving. And then when we got back to tribal council, I just remember like, it was, there was a lot of things happening. And I, and David actually, it was kind of like, you're putting me back there on the Island. We all got back to, we all got back to camp and David was immediately like trying to explain to everyone why he did what he did. And I just walked away. I just left. I was like, I'm not staying by anyone right now because I just I couldn't mentally handle it because I was

so there was just so many things swirling through my brain and I just walked away. And then I was like, I actually was like, Jessica, what are you doing? Get in there like you have to stay there like you have to put your force yourself to be in this moment, even though it's uncomfortable because this is what you have to deal with and so I went back over where everybody was and everyone was angry and no one wanted to talk to me and David's turning the fire and I'm like thanks David I would be like hugging and like shaking the dude like I love you man I mean like how long is that is that like an elated feeling kind of there was no elated feeling. There was never.

Because it put me in a situation where I realized I tanked myself in a way with other people even though I didn't think that I should be in that position. I was never elated. I was like, now I have to figure out what I'm going to do.

It's a complete damage control. I was almost embarrassed to be thanking David because I was like, now I have to figure out what I'm going to do. Yes, it's a complete damage control. And so I was almost embarrassed to be like thanking David because I was like, you know, that was great. Thanks. You know, and and he's realizing that like this is now the circumstance that we find ourselves in. But yeah, there was no I was never related. I think I would have been elated if he had been someone that I was working with. And there was a plan where he was

like i'm gonna save you and then i'm like yes you saved me no he saved my ass for his self and then so yeah but yeah no late i was not elated all right well thank you for taking us there he's doing interviews off the clock here i love this this is great i this is fantastic but i also have um thoughts about in about this you know advantages and whatnot and and um again i'm obsessed with the pre-merge on this one because actually when you when you just think about the sliding doors of of advantages literally the journey i was watching again who goes on the journey from the red tribe it's rome right to get that that that um extra vote is what he gets right seal of vote seal of vote sorry um three people go on the journey of course rome is the one person who gets it yes okay and by the way

who went was rock paper scissors, scissors between Saul and Rome. And when you just think about production and how much influence these random things have, I just feel like, why did Saul lose? In some ways, production gave him the role of the production dice. And so I would like to see Survivor 50 screwed by production. Everyone who's ever been screwed by production back in the game, you know, Sydney with the hourglass, whatever it would be. And I think Saul would be first among equals on that.

I like this. I like this. What about rock draws? Are those included? I think they're going to call you tomorrow. Yeah. But yeah. And then, so, you know, it's all i just thought saul was interesting like again little tiny things like um rome comes back with something and saul's like let me see the note and he's like i don't have it and then later on he did have the note like so i was like really laser focused on like smart things like let me verify all this and um and even the way he handled like the the threat not the ultimatum but the threat and by the way i will just say rome says quote i could just straight up threaten him he says that

and then he later on says it's an ultimatum um i thought the way saul handled that was like about as as good as as he could have it kind of worked out i mean obviously it didn't work out in terms of the vote because i think that as we discussed earlier but again like saul is a poker player in the background um i guess you know at a high level and so he i think he is able to think in those sort of chess moves um but ultimately i think the big one we've already talked about is like this this big move itis of let me help rachel when i actually think thinking it's splashyy, but thinking ahead, I just think that he might've had a better shot aligning with the blue

people because he's got Sue and Caroline and Kyle there who I just think are a little bit more his cup of tea if you really think about it. And so I think that was just a mistake. And it's one of the only real mistakes he made as opposed to like twists of fate or whatever i just think that he should have done something given something to tuku and and then told them that and use that to annihilate uh gata and then go from there yeah what was the other option didn't he have like a second option no he didn't he didn't have an option he gave it to a person they had the. They had the option.

They had the option. Whether to have safety without power or block a vote. Okay. I was, I knew there was at least a choice. If he had given it to, let's say Tiana, who he said in interviews would have been his other choice, then she could have just decided to, well, one, she could have turned on Gabe and blocked Gabe's vote. And then, but I mean, they only had like 10, 20 minutes after getting that thing. Right.

So she could have just done the easy route and blocked, you know, blocked Rachel's vote and they all voted her out. He have to give it to anyone i don't know i think it said you have to i paused it and looked i think it said you have to do this um the other thing is also just like the general case that kind of if i think about mathematics there's like there's the christian thing like there's the specific and then there's the general you know and like the general rule and i kind of feel like in these situations you either want to use the advantage to help your number one ally like the person in the game who you cannot see going home or to curry favor slash piss off the least number of people curry favor with the most number of people slash curry favor with uh sorry use it either to help your ally or to either curry favor with the most number of people or piss off the least number of people

and i think that with with by choosing rachel he did the second he kind of pissed off those tukus and he didn't protect anyone who was really useful to him and so i think that was a big move itis kind of thing and if he had just done the boring thing um he actually said um if i give the advantage to someone in tuku i could use that to build incredible bonds he said it and it's like yes and i think he would have and i think he's just the kind of guy who could have slid into blue and and made and made it happen there i actually see him as kind of a blue player yeah well one uh one thing that he did talk about that was i don't know if you say a mistake but something he wasn't thinking about was he told Mike Bloom that he looks back and thinks about, he thinks, what if about one topic? And that is that Sam had his expired slash fake idol, which Saul found out about. But when Sam told Saul, he was the target. They just took off

and started trying to get the numbers. And he realizes, well, you talked about this earlier, Jessica, in his normal life, he would, you know, something happens, he would pause and think, what can I do here, as opposed to just taking off. And he said, and one of the things I could have done is taken that fake immunity idol from Sam, who I think would have given it to me. And at the very end, I could have said, guys, I'm voting for so and so you can vote for me because I know you're all going to. And then he said, maybe they believe me. I don't know. But that's one thing I wish I would have done. And I do think it would have been fun to see him do it and throw yet another wrench into

the works of that particular tribal council, like running all over. And then he stands up and does this. But unfortunately, he did not. Yeah, well, there's i think unfortunately with a lot of things that happen in survivor your brain is moving so fast and in so many directions and then after you have time to really kind of sit back and go god that would have been a better idea huh yeah i should have done that so it is unfortunate but that would have, I had forgotten that Sam even had that until it came up in his pregame or his postgame. Right, right.

Now, there was one other thing we should address. Saul did have the opportunity to play a shot in the dark. And he told Mike Bloom that while he considered it, he was hoping he had the people he needed on his side and knew that if he played it the numbers were so tight that losing his vote would mean he'd you know get voted out anyway so just for anyone who might be thinking well why didn't he just play that i also think by the way yeah i agree with that um that he was correct to tell rachel that he'd given it to her um but he just didn't tell her enough what I mean by that is I don't think he utilized the move to

build a gotta connection that he needed to build another thing about the general case like who should you give it to is like to whom will the gift be received by the most people like who can I work with with this and I think I think that to Rachel's credit,

she made him feel like she was worth saving and working with. But I think that that was a short term. The numbers just weren't there. Right, right. Yeah. Okay, well, we could move to Appendix A, which is about the players keeping their end goals in mind when voting. And we talk about voting out the weak and the strong

and the weak and the strong. And at this point of the game, they should still be voting out the strong but the problem is there are so many different ways a player can be strong you can have strong connections you can be strong in challenges you could be a strong social player as it turns out Saul fell into at least two of those groups due to his connections and social game and he was no slouch challenges either but of course there are a number of strong players left in the game so there was more to it from the viewpoint of those making the decisions the conversation started at camp but they didn't finalize until tribal council and Genevieve of

course got the ball rolling because she wanted him out for some of her own reasons, but also strategic reasons of seeing him as a threat. She knew exactly the right thing to tell Sue to turn her against Saul, saying he was going after Gabe. So that means that Genevieve has a good read on Sue and knows she's close to Gabe. Then she had to talk to Gabe. And as she told us, the reason Gabe is pivotal to this plan is because Gabe has the numbers behind him. All of the two crews will listen to him. He is the one who will make this happen. Even acknowledging that, Genevieve wanted this to be her move. And Gabe said it was. So it'll be interesting to see if that comes back to haunt her. As Saul told Mike Bloom, it was so early, though.

We have a long way to go. And that's such a big move. But that aside, she believed it would be helpful to her, as, of course, Gabe did as well. I did think that that was an interesting little editing choice too where they showed Gabe say this was all her just to like kind of really like highlight that that this was Genevieve like

yeah I'm going to give her full credit for this one yeah David can I ask you a question it depends yes you can ask does he have to answer hold on let me uh let me turn up the light here so i feel like i've got this you know the the investigator light pointing at me as a as a super fan less of survivor and more of why blank lost um i have i've actually always wondered about

this rule uh or this part of the uh rules about what you mean precisely by week voting out the weak, then the strong, then the weak, then the strong. Like, what does that mean? Do you mean like that? You don't mean that like literally in order, but you mean like in certain phases, is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. And it is, if, if anyone wants to read the whole long version that you should have on the website. Yeah. I go through it there. Now, admittedly, there have been some Oh, and it's long. you know to the final seven six you know portion if you've got a tight alliance like let's say all the two coups and teeny are left okay you know teeny although not a weak player would be considered weak because they're unaligned at that point so yes that's where it comes in in the phases of the game i can't believe i asked you that

even though it's online i do feel a bit like kelly uh now nalabandi and not knowing what the wand off was the other day yes on uh on uh on rob's podcast so now now me and kelly what the hell guys but now me we are on the same plane of not knowing the top level knowledge about the very podcast that we are on i mean to be fair it fair, it was, you know, that is a point. Rob used to just laugh at that when he and I did this podcast together. He he he used to laugh at it, you know, so it has a long, long history. And here's the thing. I'm sure that the listeners appreciate the clarification because they haven't read the pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of rules.

So how many pages is it at this point? I don't know. I don't know a lot. I'm going to go with a lot. It's fantastic reading. I'm not I'm not saying it isn't, but get ready for a good read. And you should read it,

especially if you want to go play this game. You should definitely read it. But yes, it's... And by the way, last time we spoke, I was like, geez, this ends my quest to go on Survivor. They'd never let someone who appeared on RHAP go on Survivor. And then like five minutes later it was like

actually they would yes see so you are still in the running and I think that they should definitely consider you yes you've got to see it connect too so come on

yeah now you'll get on there they'll find they'll have listened to that someone will listen to this podcast i just want to be dr joe's intern you know that's fantastic i'm gonna go back to med school and and learning the aussie way of you know dealing with snake bites yeah yeah now um getting back to this tribal council things were basically up in the air as everyone tried to figure out what was happening and at one point during tribal council as people were whispering away sam told teeny we have to vote together and i think that was the key moment they couldn't figure out like the other side kept flipping back and forth. Are we voting for Kyle? Are we voting for Sue? Are we, you know,

Gabe was clearly lying to them. Then teeny said they were told Saul and Saul got up and they all talked about Sue. And then, you know, Saul would go to the other side and they talk about Saul and, and, you know, Sam asked Rachel if she'd vote Sue and we didn't hear her response or know, Saul would go to the other side and they talk about Saul and, and, you know, Sam asked Rachel if she'd vote Sue and we didn't hear her response or even see closed captions on it. But I noticed her shaking her head a little as she talked to him, which suggested to me

that the answer was no. And I think that's why they didn't show us captions. They didn't want us to know this was the direction the vote was going. Right. And, you know, Saul, he felt he had talked to people and had a clear answer. But like I said, I think every time he went to one side, other people were like over here. And so for the vote to end up unanimous against him at that point was kind of amazing. But it shows there was communication happening and everyone got the message except Saul himself. Even his close allies realized they had to jump on board or they'd be in trouble afterwards.

Yeah. And what an incredible just conversation to watch them both have where they're like at that point, just ignoring Jeff. Jeff is trying to communicate, asking them both questions while they're mouthing things to each other. And I just I thought it was it was great because they were like, we have more important stuff to hash out over here, Jeff. So we're not going to be answering your question right now. I just I really thoroughly enjoyed that very much. And I do appreciate the seating arrangements for this one because they did put Sam and Teenie next to each other, which enabled them to have those discussions much easier.

Were they or were they across? No, they were. They were right next to each other in the back. Yeah. I really want somebody to graph out what percentage of votes every chair gets. Because I know people talk about what seats are good or bad to have. And are there like, do they do this production, like have places where like, oh, if you're here, you're at risk.

I think there's not one or two. There's several. But there are a few. I feel like you never see anyone coming from the back right. You know, like that kind of stuff. I was just thinking that same exact spot. Oh, that's crazy. Someone in the RHAP universe needs to check that out.

I think that's a good... I bet Christian could write an algorithm for it. Oh, I like this a lot. Percent of votes because otherwise larger tribals will unduly influence the weighting. Yeah. This is a good mathematical question here. It's a fishbowl kind of thing too. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, we can move into Appendix B, which discusses the jury phase, including preparing yourself for being in Final three and also preparing the jury to want to vote for you. I think Saul had definitely set himself up nicely to getting the jury to want to vote for him if he had made it that far. And I also think in many ways he set himself up well to get to final three with just about anyone. The funny thing is when he was asked by interviewers about that, his intended plan was to go with Teenie and Genevieve. Genevieve. So much for that.

The thing is, if Genevieve hadn't turned on him, I could definitely have seen him making it to the end for all of the reasons that Genevieve turned on him. Right. You know, kind of supports her turning on on him though maybe not exactly at that point and then he would have had a jury full of people who felt connected to him and you know that obviously would not have been good for anyone that he faced no i i agree i think that saul would have been a lovely person to just watch talk his way through the final three, because everything that Saul did was so just kind of even. And it never felt like it was underhanded, that he was trying to convince anyone of anything. He was just it always just seemed to kind of like, I'm having a conversation

with you and this is what's happening. And it wasn't really until this episode where he seemed to be a little more like this vote this way. And it was a little more aggressive, but it was because he found himself in the situation that he was in. But I think overall, it would have been really nice to see him have that moment because I think his presentation would have been would have been really enjoyable to watch. I was thinking about the fact that Sierra is the mayor of Ponderosa, but she's mad at everybody. And so I don't know who she's going to, how she'll steer things. And I actually wonder if because Saul's mad at nobody, he sort of will have a coup and become the mayor of Ponderosa kind of de facto. And I was actually looking back at how many mayors of Ponderosa have voted for the winner. And it's a great number of them.

I mean, it's very common. And I kind of wonder if Sierra may be the exception. We'll find out. I don't know who's going to be left. But it would be interesting, like, also, if it had been what Saul wanted, which is the Lavo III, Tini, Genevieve, and himself, and he in the final three. Did he have any win equity there and it's interesting because you know 10 years ago i would have said oh well for them to get to the finals genevieve will have to have been genevieve for quite some time and they'll be

very angry at her but today's player is just going to respect that kind of a game you know and so i actually think that not always depends who they turn down but but but i feel like more likely so it just it's interesting um who could he have won against well i guess it depends on what happened but um in this case it his i think his jury phase the game uh was still up in the air but he was not in a bad spot he didn't go out like here's a guy who went out at this position and he had no chance i wouldn't say say that at all. I'd say he had a great chance, which as you said, it's like the reason why Genevieve kind of like

flagged is like, oh, this guy actually has win equity. I got to get rid of him, even though he's in my group. All right. Well, it is about time to wrap things up. So, Jeremy, what are your final thoughts on Saul? First of all, I'm just very sad to see Saul go. And just as a heterosexual male, I will just say that he is delicious to look at

and to watch operate. I love that man. I just think he's great. I like how he interacts with people. I like his attitude. I thought he had like the right approach like uh he played he came to play he played hard but he also had you know the ability just to remember that it was a game and i think he's disappointed but not like angry i just respect like that balance that he found um but let me just say like why why i think what i think happened which is my little spiel here my david bloomberg spiel it goes like this saul was a likable guy he worked in sales so he knew people his parents brought him up right so he learned to be adaptable creative analytical and kind he loved the game survivor he had the strategic mind for the game and the physicality to compete so he

applied to get on the show and he had the charisma to get on survivor he was put on a tribe with Rome and that is why Saul lost damn it Rome Rome's not even there anymore and he's getting blamed for it I love it oh that was great that was great I don't know David you better

you better come back to that I mean yeah I know I don't know how this is gonna go down the analytics may be a little more advanced yeah

oh that was great Yeah, I know. I know. How's this going to go down? The analytics may be a little more advanced. Yeah. Oh, that was great. That was fantastic. All right. I'll share my thoughts on Sol, if I may. I, too, appreciate Sol very much. And the thing that's interesting about my appreciation for him, I wasn't sure if I was going to appreciate him pregame because I, there was something about the, the,

the way that he described how he was going to play the game and things that he wanted to do. And I was just like, and I was like, I don't know if he's going to have the, like get up and go that he's going to need for this game. But I do want to stress something that he has continued to stress in his exit press.

And he talked about it in this pregame. And I just think it's such a lovely representation of who Saul is. And another reason why I think he ended up being targeted by Genevieve was he talked about why they picked him to play this game. And that was his Saul power, right? He has his Saul power. And he said, nothing can stop me. Now, don't get me wrong. I understand I might not win this game, but I do believe I will win this game. Absolutely. And I think for me, that's the biggest thing there is. Because if you don't believe you can win, if you don't believe that you can do anything, then you're probably not going to. And whether you're right or wrong, it doesn't matter. The point is, believe in yourself. It's not cockiness. It's not arrogance.

matter. The point is, believe in yourself. It's not cockiness. It's not arrogance. It's just a belief that you can do anything. And that's probably my biggest strength is my belief in myself. And I just think that is such a beautiful representation of who Saul is and who he was in the game. And I think we really saw him figuring this all out while he was out there, that he believed that he could do this. And he believed that there were, there was a way for him to get to the end, regardless of Rome being there. And he had to figure things out as they were thrust at him, right? All of these trinkets that other people had and players that he didn't anticipate necessarily having to play with and situations that would come up where we could have seen someone really lose it and just get frustrated and be angry at the game. And he never was. He was always just accepting and figuring it

out. And how do I make this work? And what do I need to do? But unfortunately for Saul, that strength, I think is what Genevieve saw. And Genevieve saw him as the threat that he was going to be sitting in a final three, sitting with everybody who liked him, sitting across from everybody who liked him. And a true ability for Saul to win this game became a true threat to Genevieve, which then carried into Genevieve convincing everyone else that he was a threat and needed to be reckoned with much sooner than we would have liked to see that happen. So sorry, Saul, but you are a joy to watch and keep loving life because you're so good.

Wait, can I just like agree with something you just said and highlight it? Because a lot of times people come in and they say they're going to win or they believe in themselves, but it's kind of a magical thinking of like fate or of like manifestation or whatever it may have. And what I think you pointed out is something that he said is that I can always figure it out. And I think that what he believes in is his ability to take the bull by the horns and to, and to not just be, he can accept the situation, but not passively and operate on it and get in there. And I kind of really admire what you said about him, which is that he is a guy who believes that you can get in there and do it. And I thought that was just such, I think that's what I hear you saying.

And I think that is why he's awesome. He is awesome. Thank you. Yeah. All right, David, bring us home. All right. Well, Saul seemed to be in a good spot. Nobody was mentioning his name.

He was in good with everybody. But then Genevieve, his old sometimes ally, realized that he was in a great spot with nobody mentioning his name and being in good with everybody. Nobody thought of him as a threat, which made him the real threat. Genevieve saw what perhaps nobody else did, just how well Saul was playing And she decided now was the time to deal with him Now, as we discussed, it's great to have allies all over the place But the problem can come when those allies find out about each other in a way that makes them realize They can't all be that close to you. Sue thought she was close to Saul, but then

found out he was supposedly targeting her real number one game. Rachel felt close to him, especially after he saved her, but she also wanted to get herself into a better position with a stronger group of allies, and so on down the line. The only ones who were willing to stand up and try to stop it were Teenie and, somewhat oddly, Sam. But they were fighting to get votes on their side from the very people who were thinking it was better to stay on the other side. Maybe if there had been more time and less frantic running around, they could have found a way to save Saul. Maybe they could have solidified an opposition by getting others on board with a different target, like Kyle. Maybe they could have solidified an opposition by getting others on board with a different target like Kyle.

But that other target kept jumping around, even at tribal council, making it difficult for people to latch on to anything. Well, anything except the plan they'd agreed to previously. And with Genevieve and the Tukus, or at least the Tukus who could vote, they only needed one more person to go along with them, while the other side had to ensure everyone in their group was willing to do it. That's difficult to do under normal circumstances, let alone while whispering back and forth in tribal council. Once Genevieve got the ball rolling and got the Tukus on board, it was an uphill battle to make it go any other direction. Too many people were worried about the potential threat that Saul posed. And just as importantly, they were worried they'd end up in a bad spot if everyone voted for him and they didn't. They all had to come together. And just as Saul had been good with everyone to start the day, everyone was good with voting him out

by the end of the day. And that is why Saul lost. Excellent wrap up. For anyone who wants to be on this show, let me show you. It's so insanely difficult. I spent, I literally took hours today getting ready for this. And David like can like do this week in and week out.

Jessica takes fewer notes and like has it all in her brain. These people are crazy good at what they do. So much. Thank you. See, there's that commercial again. I'm going to clip. It is. I love this. This is, this is good. Put that in a TikTok too. It's called, this is why blank lost is really hard to do. I will say it is a lot of pressure. When I started I I did a lot of what you do Jeremy and now not so much um now you have it in your brain I've figured it out and I I try to I try to go in order as I've been instructed to do oh yeah oh by the way you put Heidi on last time before me

last this time it's Omer like could next time it be some like player who doesn't know anything we don't have those people on this podcast those don't come on the podcast because usually the people who don't know anything we kind of talk about them that way in the podcast and then they don't want to be on the podcast so sorry survivor family i do love you yes but i have a job to do i have to talk about you too so it's just one of those things all right well before we get to our predictions for next episode i want to let uh everyone know or rather remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are available in poster form and in poster on a t-shirt form and in checklist on a t-shirt form. So again, you can go to robhasawebsite.com slash yxlostfeed and get all of those. All of them. Yes. Absolutely.

You have it on the sweatshirt today. I do. This is no longer available. This is a, you know, it was available at the old store, but the sweatshirts are not available at the new store. Unless we had like an outpouring of people asking for it, then I could go to them. So, you know, if people really want it, you know, we're getting to sweatshirt weather, then, you know, let me know. But you can auction it off. That's right. That's right.

But where would people let me know? Oh, my gosh. Yes. So we have some fun news anyway. I talked about it. But as far as social media is concerned, if you would like to see what we are all up to, I'm at JessicaLewis89 on Twitter. And I just signed up for Blue Sky, which is also at JessicaLewis89. There's literally nothing there yet. Get ready. There will be more. For me, for me, there is things for Blue Sky. But yeah, so you can certainly follow me there. I'm also at JessicaLewis6789 on Instagram.

follow me there. I'm also at JessicaLewis6789 on Instagram. I tend to steal a lot of the content from the social media master that you see on this side, this side over here. I forget I'm flipped. Everything is flipped around. Yes. So David Bloomberg has so much social media that, and he has been on Blue Sky for a very long time. And now you're finally all joining him. So he appreciates the, the presence and the, and the company and the camaraderie that that's bringing. So David, where else can they find you besides blue sky? Well, the easiest way to find all my various accounts is on my link tree at link tree slash David Bloomberg with a dot before the E in the URL there.

I just realized I need to elevate blue sky. It was, it was not at the top and it needs to be moved to the top now. But you could find me directly if you're going directly to blue sky or, you know, still on Twitter as at David Bloomberg or threads is at David Bloomberg TV. I thought people were going to jump to threads. I had a higher count on threads, but all of a sudden, you know,

a week and a half ago, something happened a week and a half ago that made everybody want to go to blue sky. And it's funny because I was on a podcast with Rob. I think it was a Big Brother recap. And at this point of the podcast, he asked, where can people find you? And I said, and he said, you're on Blue Sky? Is anything happening on Blue Sky? And I said, well, not a whole lot, but some of us are trying to make it happen.

And then all of a sudden this wave comes in. And so now you can, you know, it's very easy to kind of create what kind of experience you want to have there. You can set different types of feeds so you can get feeds that are all Survivor or all Big Brother or all RHAP people. And, you know, you can you can do all these different things. And I mean, Jeremy, except crop a photo. You can't crop a photo. I don't think you can crop a photo. Well, um, uh, you know, Jeremy joined like a day ago and he has a thousand followers. So, uh, but it's one of them.

See ya. No, she's quite off of social. I don't blame her. Um, but, uh, you know, my personal, uh, follows on blue sky have now, uh, they are six times what they were, um, just a week and a half ago, just from everybody moving over. Um, now I still have more than that on Twitter. I am still a little bit on Twitter. I am posting on Twitter.

But most of my conversations are on Blue Sky. And that is where just a large amount of the community, the survivor community, the Big Brother community, and lots of other communities are moving. Fascinating. I really did not intend to speak that much about Blue Sky. That was a commercial for Blue Sky, right there. It was. I should let them know. are moving. Um, I really did not intend to speak that much about blue sky, but that was a commercial for blue. It was, it was, I should,

I should let them know. Uh, but I am also of course, uh, on the video platforms, YouTube, TikTok and Instagram is at David Bloomberg TV. Um, and so you can find, you know, my various videos there. Um, and I, I make at least two or three a day, generally on Survivor, obviously. Also the Traders Canada,

the Summit, House of Villains. And so you can find me there. Also, speaking of the Traders Canada, you can hear me podcasting about it as I am a co-host of the trade, our podcast that's T R a I D a R, uh, for the traders, Canada season two. Uh, so yeah, look me up there. Uh, Jeremy, I just mentioned that you are on blue sky. Uh, tell us what's your, what's your account name there and where else people can find you sure i am on blue sky at jeremy faust just first last dot you know dot bsky.social that's

what you do um i'm still on twitter x at at at Jeremy Faust on Instagram and threads. I am my first middle and last name at Jeremy Samuel Faust. And I, I like those places and my newsletter where I talk about medicine and public health and data. And I try to inform people about what's going on without freaking anybody out unless, unless it's time to freak out.

Cause there are those times, but I try not to over, you know, oversell that um and that's that's called inside medicine and it's on substack um and uh i will be going to the uh bryson when event in boston whenever that is coming up so if you want to hang out charlie's dad from last season like accosted me and told me that I did a great job on your show. Nice. So sweet. Um, that's amazing.

So, so, um, that was really fun. Charlie's dad. Hi. Um, and Charlie also.

Um, so yeah, um, that's where you can find me. And I, um, love to talk about medicine, survivor,

choral music, classical music, and randomly enough, semi domesticated house possums. That's it. Yes. I know Jessica is going to want to know, but it's just read the feed, you know? Yeah. You just have to see it. It is the strangest. I feel like I need to research you now, Jeremy. There's so many things I've just learned in this one sit down with you. So thank you for that. So if people want to subscribe to Inside Medicine,

what's the easiest way for them to do that? I think if you just Google my name and Inside Medicine, it'll get there. And it's free during the week. And then the weekends have a paywall where I talk about something in my life in medicine, like a weird case that I had, where I, of course,

I'm careful with patient privacy and stuff, but or how I think about some kind of issues. So it's a really fun, vibrant community, and I really am proud of that work inside medicine on Substack. Okay. Thanks. All right, well, now we can do predictions. The preview tells us that Andy considers himself to be the smiling assassin,

which people who watch Australian Survivor will get very upset about him using that because it was used on Australian Survivor. Sam wants revenge. I don't know what this means because he wanted revenge before and then tried to save the guy that he wanted revenge against. Sue wants to kill Kyle, as she says multiple times. Yes. She even said in this episode that she wanted to blindside Kyle this week, you know, and then, you know, with all the Kyle mentions in the preview, I think he's totally safe.

And one reason I think what we're going to find is all those times that she's saying that she wants him out is that she's pissed because he wins an immunity challenge. And she realizes that she could have gotten him out this week and didn't. Yeah. So that's my prediction.

They should have done. Yes. I think the two coups will continue to stay together yeah uh so for me it comes down to a question of whether they target genevieve because she's raised her profile so much with the sol vote or if they go for sam or rachel and all i could think about was the thing that we have mentioned before gabe pointing out oh this, this was totally your move. It was all your move. I think it's her. It's the old survivor domino effect. You take out a threat, you become the threat. And here's the other part of that, too, is the fact that she went through the permutations

of if we don't do this, then this person is going to get voted out than this person and then it gets to me so that would be very fascinating editing if they were like actually jennifer if you take out small you're next oh i like that that's that's a very interesting uh little thought okay so what's your prediction i wholeheartedly agree with yours because I do feel like in just looking at the groups of people, as much as Sue doesn't like Kyle, Sue doesn't have as much pull as someone like Gabe. And I think Gabe wants to keep Kyle around because he is a shield. Gabe understands how shields work, which is why I don't think he's going to bother with Sam because he also wants to keep sam there because sam is going to be a shield for him so i can't imagine that there's any reason why anyone else from the yellow tribe would necessarily then be targeted because if he's not caring about sam he's not going to worry about the other two but then you get over to who's left on the red tribe and teeny i love teeny she's fabulous but teeny is also very much

like uh what what are we doing i will i'll i will do she's she's fallen into that like survival mode because she has to be there and so she's not someone that i think they need to worry about but genevieve is the one that she she created this entire movement against saul that didn't exist until genevieve stepped up and said, hey, by the way, this is what's happening. So I do think that Genevieve just shined a big old fat light on herself and is going to find herself the target. And she's not going to have anybody backing her because nobody's really left to do that.

Right. I mean, she got rid of Saul and she had Saul and Teenie that might have had her back. But now Teenie's not going to have her back so Teenie's going to be like now she can go too so yeah I agree I think it's going to be Genevieve alright on you

didn't this happen last time where you both agreed and then I said whatever you said and you guys banned me from the show for breaking the rules of how you make predictions? I seem to recall you. I think you were like, anything but what you said.

Anything but what you guys said. You guys just convinced me. That was very good. The brain, the big brain is like going. Because last time I got in trouble for saying the most vague thing, I'm going to go the other direction

and be oddly specific about my prediction. Even though I think that what you both just said makes much more sense than what I'm about to say. Okay. I think that Genevieve is possibly just, is such an amazing player. I don't know if she'll win this whole game, but she's one of the greatest kind of strategic players we've seen in a long time so i think

that she went with um you know who she not only did everyone went for saul but she really kind of as as gabe said organized that and aligned herself with the blue side and i think that she'll follow that up with going with the blue side again um so that it wasn't pointless it's not like what saul did which was to you know oh i'll go with rachel i'll give her this thing and then sort of abandon that that whole group she will follow it up and align with them and they will realize that it's like okay that's five that's four chukwu and genevieve teeny can come or not it doesn't matter and they will say let's make sure that those gotta three are down to two. And what they'll do is they'll go for a gotta.

I think that Rachel will play her idol because she is going to sense that it's too dangerous and she doesn't want to go home with an idol in her pocket as her, her partner told her, you know, that's the one thing you cannot do. And they did drop that into the show, which could be foreshadowing, could be foreshadowing that she does it right or foreshadowing that she doesn't. But, but I think that they will target, that Tuku 4 plus Genevieve and maybe Teenie will target Agatha.

Rachel will play her idol and Sam will go home. Oh, all right. Okay. That is a very detailed prediction. Even though I'm worried that what David said is correct, which is that Gabe understands that Sam's a good shield. don't know that's that made me just like i said that oh jessica said that sorry yes that made me think that made me think whoever said it was smart i have been blamed recently for things that jessica said so i figure i should give credit

i don't want to get credit for things that she said thank So I figured I should give credit. Thank you. I don't want to get credit for things that she said. Thank you very much. I do appreciate getting the credit. Yes, thank you. All right. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people

to check out the RJP patron program at robhaswebsite.com slash patron. You can get access to all the special podcasts plus Facebook groups, Discord. And of course, you can support shows like ours and everything in the network by becoming a patron at Rob has a website.com slash patron. Uh, speaking of Rob has a website, by the way, uh, they now have an account. The whole podcast system has an account over at, uh, blue sky.

Rob just made an account today. Also I I saw, he hadn't posted anything there. But he has one there as well. But anyway, make sure you're subscribed to all the RHAP Survivor podcasts by going to WeKnowSurvivor.com. You can see all the different podcasts there. Select your service of choice to subscribe. And you'll get all of the great survivor content we have, like, you know, the know-it-alls, the B&B, Survivor International,

you name it. Every survivor show on the network is on there. And so it's an easy way to get the feed. And we would like to thank RHAP for all of the content that they do provide to all of the listeners. It is incredible. There's so much to choose from. As you heard David digging through all of the lovely bits and things that you can find there. So thank you for all of the work that you do. Scott St. Pierre, all of the editing, Jessica Sterling, producing and editing. You do a fantastic job. Doug, you do all the art, which is beautiful and lovely.

And I just remembered as I was sitting here, do we still have a song that's played? We do. But that's not on the video. It is on the just audio. So I haven't thanked him in a while, but thank you again for that lovely tune. I know that Jeremy did say he was going to be creating a song.

So, you know, no pressure there, Jeremy. But we already do have a little bit of a tune. So something to be mindful of. Oh, no, I'm using that tune. I'm using that exact tune to make that tune. Yeah. It's going to be a karaoke version of that. I love this.

Well, and I also heard from someone, I don't know if they want their name used or not, who created a song to, you know know to a christmas tune uh with us in it and they they created the words uh and so um i i don't know if they're planning on sending it in as a wand off or i love not but uh so we'll we'll we, or if they're expecting us to sing it, I don't know. Uh, we'll see. You do rap. I'm just saying. No, I don't. No.

Yes. Jeremy, you know, he raps, right? No. I mean, at least as well as Chris Noble, at least. Well, yeah. Okay. Granted. Granted.

And finally, I would like to thank Jeremy for joining us again. Jeremy, this is such a lovely time. You were fantastic last time, fantastic this time. Thank you for all the work that you did to prepare. But this was a true joy and I learned so much more about you. So I am going to make sure I look up domesticated. What was that again?

Possums. I was like, I can see the animal in my brain. I mean, you can see the whole story on his threads. If you go through his threads and I think now he's catching up, he's going to maybe catch up a bit on blue sky. We'll see. Oh, well domesticated house possums. I'm all over it. So thank you for that. So thank you for joining us. It was so much fun. And I hope you come back and join us again.

Well, thank you for inviting me back. I it's such an honor. You guys are absolutely amazing. The Survivor RHAP whole universe is just such a wonderful group of people. You guys take stress away from my life, which is often stressful with the work I do. And there's nothing better than when I'm feeling stressed about,

you know, ER or something else, turning on a little RHAP stuff or Survivor and just, you know, thinking about something fun but also deeply analytical and you can take it at any level you want and that's what's beautiful about the community and thank you for having me into it for a little while thank you for having me into it for a little while

and David and Jessica you're just awesome hosts thank you thank you very much for coming back and joining us again I'm sure listeners will enjoy this show as much as they did last season. They're going to love the Sia story. I know that. And everything else.

You're good for more than just the Sia story. Oh, my God. That's the peak, by the way. It's not going to be topped. Yeah. Unless you go back to visit her again. Anyway, as always, Jessica, thank you for another great week.

You and I will be back in seven days. We will talk to everyone then. Bye. Bye. Leave it in Jessica, we'll turn it around They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how You played yourself and got voted out This is why Blank lost This is why Blank lost

Oh baby, this is why Blank lost