RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why ___ Lost: Survivor 47 Premiere

Episode Date: September 21, 2024

David Bloomberg and Jessica Lewis are here once again after the first Survivor 47 vote, and they have special guest Jake O’Kane from Survivor 45 to talk through it all with them! Jon Lovett talked about the tribe not having many strategic discussions, but was that really the case? The TV episode made it look like Jon didn’t fit in with his younger tribemates while Jeff Probst said he was a threat to win. Were these the actual explanation? And how did the situation with Andy affect the outcome? At RHAP, we know Survivor, and we know Why Jon Lost.

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Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. If you lost Survivor and you're feeling down, David and Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how you played yourself and got voted out. This is why Blank lost. This is why Blank lost. This is why Blank lost. Oh baby, this is why Blank lost.

Welcome back to the Survivor Edition of Why Blank Lost. I'm David Bloomberg. And ever since I retired from that other job I had, when people ask me what I do, I have to say I'm an effing podcast host. My goodness. Joining me, of course, is my effing co-host, who still has an important day job, Jessica Lewis. Hello. Yes, I do. I do still have my day job. Thank you very much. And I am also an effing podcaster as well. So thank you so much for joining us again. We do have a special guest joining us. This is so exciting.

this is so exciting helping us to welcome survivor back into our lives once again is jessica's former winner pick survivor 45 jake o'kane hey what's going on i thought i was this was just an apology apology to jess that i lost survivors i need to apologize to you because the butterfly effect i chose you you didn't win't win. It's my fault. I'm sorry. Oh, good. Well, what the hell, Jess? Whoa. Now we know why this happened. Oh yes. No, I was so excited to choose you as my winner, even though I understand the ramifications that that can have,

but it was great watching you. You were incredible television, awesome player. So I'm so excited to have you here because this is going to be a lovely time. I'm very much looking forward to this. So again, I apologize for the negative effect I've had on your life. However, let's move forward and let's just do this podcast and everything will be great. I'm excited. I'm excited. Yeah. You know, Jake, we met, of course, at the Chicago RJP event last season. We were at the Cubs game and I was looking away from where you were. You know, you were coming to your seats and then I heard your voice and I immediately turned around. I was like, that's Jake. So how have you been doing?

I've been good, man. I've been good, man. I've been good, man. This, um, just grinding away at work, enjoying, uh, surviving 47 for the one episode that's been on and you got, you guys are getting the last podcast from grandma's house. I think it's the last podcast here. So, you know, the, the, the pink walls are going to be substituted out. Oh man. I do.

I do appreciate the fact that you were ending on a high note with us i love that oh yeah thank you no problem all right well i know that a lot of people said they were surprised at the outcome this first week but i have to tell you as i was watching it was somewhat obvious to me that andy wasn't going after everything that happened in the challenge, in part because it was too obvious. It was one of those things where it's like, well, this person is clearly going and you're watching going, no, they're not. And if it wasn't going to be Andy, there seemed to only be one other likely suspect. Also, while I didn't notice until my rewatch, there were two big hints in scenes where the camera focused on John as Jeff was talking about someone being in trouble.

I ended up making a video that people can check either in the patron group or on my YouTube or TikTok. You just see it focused right on him. And then, of course, there's also people have pointed out, you know, he had the episode title of One Glorious Day on Survivor or whatever it was. One Glorious. Oh, yes. So there were a lot of hints being dropped in that episode. Maybe they were trying to make people understand it, because I do think there is a lot to unpack here, though. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we will get to that. Now, I know that there are probably some new listeners. Thanks to Asia's Rob has a podcast shout out on the show for all of you. Let me briefly explain what we do here, because it's a bit different from your typical like recap podcast.

Each week, we compare what the player who's voted out did in the game to my rules for winning that I originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since using all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on tv interviews social media and secret scenes uh what we often find is the basic reasons given on tv or sometimes even by the players themselves in interviews, may not tell the whole story. And there's rarely one particular action that caused them to get voted out, but rather a bigger series of actions or events that led to it. For anyone who's interested, the newest version of the rules can be found by going to our website page, robhaswebsite.com slash yxlossfeed, and clicking on the link bubble for the survivor

rules. Now I mentioned the Asia's shout out, and it did remind me of way back when Sheehan quoted my rule two in her final words back in Survivor Thailand, except she didn't say my name or the name of my website at the time. So people didn't even know it was a shout out. It was, I didn't get that good advertising pop, you know? Yeah, but we knew we were there with you. That's right. Before we address how John did in terms of the rules,

we always have some other things to discuss from the episode. And I think it makes sense to start with our two winner picks now jake i'm not sure did you make a pre-season winner pick i did make a pre-season winner pick my can i can i share that is this oh yes i picked tiana i i i'm a little biased tiana was the 45 alt when she didn't get on the boat with us that day. I was personally, I didn't expect Tiana to be the alt. And I was like, oh, that's so sad. She seemed like such a cool person.

So can I ask you a question about that? Did you know that there was alternates there or did you just assume everyone was going to be going out to play? Oh, no, no, no. I knew I knew there would be an alternate there. um i well like austin was the other alternate and not too much inside baseball but someone left and we're like all right well there's not a another all the men are playing at this point okay well that is fascinating because when when we when i went out for my season there was just there was 20 of us so it was like well either we're all playing or they do have two alternates but it was one of those i was just curious like how that how that ends up playing out when there

are actual alternates like they just don't get on the boat that's so sad yeah yeah i think i think rachel was an alternate for 46 yes she's the female. Yeah. But you hang out there. It's like, Oh my God. I would, I would hate that. I would lose my mind. Hey, don't talk for a week and you likely or may or may not, not do this thing. But I mean, now where you've had Austin and Gio get subbed in last minute, like, yeah. Wasn't, wasn'tlly an alternate originally kelly was an alternate on 43 yeah yeah kelly and geo were the alternates on 43 geo got to go yeah that's it's

so crazy i'd be like tripping people in the bathroom or something be like oops oh my god i'm so sorry nancy nancy kerrigan over here uh or the opposite you know doing it no really I'm not that kind of person I'm just kidding but but I that that would be a very that would be like well we seem to have lost someone anyone know where they could be they're like tucked away somewhere yeah no that would be a, very hard thing to go through to be like present for that entire time. Jessica, you're a criminal prosecutor. You know how to make it look like an accident. I might've seen a few things that people have done now and now and again, but I'm not, I'm not telling anyone to do these things. Please don't, please don't. I should

change the subject. I'm so sorry for going down down this path do not injure other people to get on survivor okay just don't do it uh so uh what's funny about you know that jessica and i had asia and rome as our winner picks because the two of them immediately went head to head basically you know in the first few minutes rome criticized asia for volunteering to go compete for camp supplies because it could weaken her position. Now, this is something, by the way, I do want to mention. I've listened to, you know, some other podcasts already, and they were like, well, when Asia volunteered, she, you know, knew this or knew that. But from what we saw, all Jeff said was something like, all I'm telling you is you're getting, you know, you're, you're getting camp supplies.

They did not know it was a head to head competition. They did not know what they were going to have to do. I'm not even sure they knew they were going to have to leave for an extended time. Yeah, there was very little information provided but i i still would have leaned more towards i'm not going because this is and i feel like asia talked about this in her pre-game press where she didn't want to be the person that was going on and maybe i'm just remembering incorrectly but yeah there was a lot i think well but but still i mean i i feel like I would equate this to like a journey because this is the first day you've just met everyone. I would not want any time away from my tribe mates immediately because that's when people are bonding. You're getting to know who you're going to be on a tribe with.

I'm not leaving. Nope. Anyone else can go. That's fine. I'm staying with the tribe. So I can understand that position for sure. I think it would be interesting i i i tend to agree with don't go if you can but if there's an if there's pressure i don't think make a whole

thing about it because the thing is if you go it's i don't think it helps you in the game socially i think it's i think it is recoverable i don't think i did that when i went in sweat and savvy but it's kind of like the position where um i think the the logic would be don't go but if you're in a situation like voce right i think you have to go i think you're gonna get pushed in that situation or like what personally happened with me when we were when bella was trying to figure out who's gonna go do sweat and savvy brando said i'm going immediately then we're like oh it's it's sweat or savvy like we're gonna need someone strong i'm like oh how about bruce he was in the military he's like man that was 20 years ago oh no like that hit me and i was like you literally just did the strength portion of this challenge right right like hi and so then tendra's like i'll go and i'm like oh this is not gonna look

good because like the narrative coming off 44 was that all the women went early so it just like i'll go and i'm like oh this is not gonna look good because like the narrative coming off 44 was that all the women went early so it's like i don't want to like poke my head up you know what i mean so yeah yeah i ended up going but i think the i think rome's correct i think the i don't think he's right on everything else that goes down in the well yeah but i think the logic if you can not go, don't. Yeah, I agree. I will be interested in Asia's winter interviews, you know, to hear what her logic was for deciding to go. Sure, sure.

And then I'll be interested to hear Rome's winter interviews about why he was worried about that decision that she made being wrong. Look, this is how he became my winner pick, Jake. I picked a rock. in her interviews about why he was worried about that decision that she made being wrong look this is how he became my winner pick jake i picked a rock that's policy but i love rocks sorry we may have different opinions of this it looks like you've embraced it i i finally did i said you know what let's just move past this. Rocks can be my friend. And so Rome is now my winner pick, Rock. Yes. Well, we'll see if he becomes your friend. But we know how Jessica's winner picks go.

Again, I'm sorry, Jake. That's true. Because so Rome goes from criticizing Asia for doing something that could put her in a bad position and then runs off to look for the idol, which admits could put him in a bad position yeah he's he's aware at least he's aware he's aware but he still did it um and then asia led the tribe search squad as they looked for him and eventually saw him running away from them uh he walked he walked away he did not run away details matter okay you know so asia quickly integrated herself back into the tribe after her unsuccessful journey thanks in large part to teeny uh and then seemingly got the target pointed at someone else yes she did she did i'm not going to sit here and speak ill of your winner pick as you are speaking ill of mine everyone plays the game a little bit differently

and everyone takes a little different approach i'm not speaking ill of rome he looks very fun i will tell you i will tell you a little spoiler for the end of the podcast i will not predict that he is voted out next oh well how kind of you thank you i won't i won't pick asia either how about that anywho um now speaking of teeny i i do want to mention that in our preview podcast i said it would be uh interesting to see uh if teeny would pull an izzy from last season of big brother and tell asia they knew who she was uh but would keep it totally secret and that's exactly what happened i mean i wonder i don't know i i'm gonna guess that teeny watches big brother also and i wonder if that was running through their mind as they were doing this quite possible but didn't you talk about that also go ahead are you saying pre-game or like are you saying pre-game

or in-game both because personally i wouldn't recognize i wouldn't recognize asia like i listened to stuff but i wouldn't recognize her before going out because like now it's a little more involved at this point but um did anyone else recognize asia in pregame andy andy okay yes yes but different tribe i feel like teeny talked about doing like she was going to say something to her but but understood i'm not going to tell anybody else that i recognize yeah yeah so she at least yeah that's what they said in pregame and that's exactly what they said to asia as well was hey exactly what they said to Asia as well was, Hey, I'm not going to say, I mean,

it was almost word for word when teeny told Mike bloom. So it was good practice, you know? But yeah, I, you know, and that helped integrate Asia back in, which, you know, I think was really good. It's interesting. Cause a friend of mine and I've been asked this's interesting because a friend of mine, and I've been asked this before, but a friend of mine asked me on Facebook if I would play Survivor if they called.

And I said, well, they're not going to call. But if they magically did, besides all the other reasons that they won't call, I would do it, but I would also expect, like Asia, that I'd be recognized the difference is asia is seen as much nicer than me uh i'm the guy who has been telling players what they did wrong for literally decades yeah and so and you've sucked me into your world bloomberg yeah and and too many way too many people i would would want to uh vote

me out and go to the voting booth and say and this is why david lost you know it's my name on the article there uh so make sure you wear that t-shirt when you go out in the island that would be awesome and everyone will know. Oh my God. Now, besides our two winner picks, there are a couple other people I want to discuss, starting with Andy. Obviously, a lot has already been said about him

and what happened, so we don't need to delve further into that. He clearly had a series of bad moments of things piling on, like stress, lack of sleep, other personal stuff, and some heat exhaustion. But to me, the key is what it means for him going forward. Because I've seen a fair number of people compare him to Banu, but I don't see it that way. Just look at how quickly he was able to turn it around, get in with the majority to vote out John. And

yeah, he probably just went along with what they told him, but someone like Banu would have continued breaking down at even the thought of it. Uh, I think Andy is someone else. And I think Jake, you and I, I think are on the same page with this. Yeah. I think Andy, Andy gives me a lot of Emily vibes just in Emily had a rough day one she would tell you that and then she goes on this great arc of becoming an increasingly better survivor player to the point where she's a massive threat to win and has the best story of the season going into final seven of survival 45. Um, I, I rough stop for Andy. I mean, I get, I like, I get that. Like I get that you're worried you're on the outs, especially early on. Um, and based on the exit interviews from John,

like Andy had the correct read, like he had the correct read. Andy was being left out of stuff and it's it's you know survivor there's a learn there's a little learning curve at the beginning of oh yes you know how do I settle into you know number one being on your favorite show in the world and number two just the elements and it sounds like he wasn't sleeping like I was freaking out early on but I didn't sleep too bad the first couple days if I wasn't sleeping like Andy who knows but I I do think that I do think and we can get into it now we can get into it later but with kind of what's happened over the past couple seasons I think Andy's actually not in the worst spot right now as shocking as that may sound yeah I do think that those are incredibly valid points

about the learning curve that you have to go through when you get out there, because you really, it doesn't matter how many times you tell yourself, this is what I'm going to do. And this is how I'm going to do it. And this is how it's all going to be until you're actually out on an island. And it goes completely pitch black, and you can't see a damn thing. And you're sleeping on bamboo, that's very uncomfortable. And there's bugs and birds running through and over you and there's crabs like I mean it is all of these things that you can't prep yourself for you can prepare for so many things but then once you have the elements thrown at you and there's no food and there's no water and your body really is almost kind of in shock for a little bit. And some people adjust really well. I managed to adjust very well. There was other people on my tribe that did, but you also have

to look at the amount of people that are there. I had 10 people on my tribe, six. And I do feel like having that smaller amount of people makes it that much more intense. And Jake, I'm sure you can speak to this, that you notice when you're being left out that much more because there's so few people and I mean 10 versus 6 it's huge when you're in a tribe on an island all by yourself and so I can imagine that if you are the person that is being left out it's there's a light shining on it and you can't help but miss it and it then compounds all of these other things that you're having to deal with knowing this is a social game that you need to play and you're being ostracized or just left out it must be a very difficult thing to have to go through with such a smaller group of people yeah i'd agree

with that i mean like you're analyzing each one of these five other people you're on a tribe with so much more in particular and i like i can't speak to experience with 10 people but i just imagine having four other people it's like maybe i could have misread that it's like you got five people around you you might be misreading things but you can you can get the vibe you know what i mean but um i think the thing with andy too and i don't know if i could speak on his long longevity in the game is I think there was, I saw some talk about Andy becoming Charlie Brown becoming the Jake becoming the Owen and that could absolutely happen.

But I think if he's going to have a rough moment like this and get sank to the bottom of the totem pole really hard and be seen in the kind of way that he's being seen by his tribe right now. I think it's better than it happens now. I think if there's opportunity in time, I think if it happens after the merge, I don't know how much anyone could do to bring themselves out of that, out of that,

out of that point. But I think Andy has a lot of time. There's a lot of game. There's a lot of twists probably coming down the line. I thinky could pull himself out of his spot yeah yeah i agree all right well finally i want to mention uh you know jessica you and i worried in the pre-season podcast about annika project managing oh yes well there she was uh one of these perfect people who's like, I'm not going to do this going in

and immediately starts doing it. Yes. There are certain parts of yourself that you just cannot put away when you go out there to play. And we've talked about this a lot. Like Jessica was told, put parts of yourself in a box

by people that I work with. They're like, just, you know, just keep Jessica in a box a little bit. And she was very aware of that portion of herself going out there, but she did not keep any of it in the box. She was like, I'm just going to take over. I'm going to tell you

how you can find these particular coconuts, how we should build the shelter and we need more bamboo and all of these things. So I do, but also there was an appreciation by other people on her tribe that she was doing that because then she's the leader and they don't have to be. So, yeah, lean in on that. If someone wants to do it, let them do it. Let them kind of dig their own hole if they want and put all the focus on them for sure. Yeah, I like Anika's confessional. I like I like Anika a lot.

I thought that was a really funny scene. But I think if going down the line like it might be helpful day one but like that can start to grate on people and i hope for her sake it doesn't then you become bruce yeah some people would feel that way yeah i don't mind you know that kind of person but other people might yeah yeah all right uh do either of you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we get to the rules bet mgm authorized gaming partner of the nba has your back all season long from tip-off to the final buzzer you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in vegas that's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style,

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. I don't know. I will say one thing that my mother noted, which I thought was really quite fascinating. I missed. And this, I guess, for a future Survivor player, has never even thought about this. When you're doing... We didn't do a mud challenge on my season, and I kind of wish we had oh then you weren't properly birthed into survivor but my mom said that some people put their buffs over their faces and before they jumped in the mud i didn't even notice that

i was like that's a genius move so first one ever players the first one that i saw do it was sam so i don't know if he invented it but i I commented on that on Twitter. He was the first one I saw because some of them were using it to cover other parts, but he literally pulled it over his whole face. Yeah. Which is good because I don't have a buff handy, but you can still see out through them, you know? Yeah.

I think if you can keep the mud off your face, do it. Like when we had our first community challenger sliding down this A-frame and I'm like, I'm keeping my face out. And we just had to crawl under something there was like raised um but with these guys like the ropes right on them like that's pressing them in the rope above you is muddy like yeah you need that because if you can't see like that's yeah mud on my lip yeah all right well there were of course some other things going on and I'll be putting some of it as clips in my YouTube shorts at David Bloomberg TV. But before we get to how John did, I want to mention that the rules we're about to discuss come in a colorful and shorter form as a poster.

in a colorful and shorter form as a poster. So go to rob has a website.com slash YX lost feed, scroll down to that poster and click on it and then order it. And our crack shipping department will get one right out to you. Crack. Crack. Yes. Not on crack. You're the crack shipping department.

I'll send it to you yes um you're ruining the illusion of the shipping department um yes there are so many people working to pass these for us big operation these big operation over here um you can keep scrolling down uh and find the poster on a t-shirt or you can find the shirt that Jessica is wearing the checklist. So again, go to Rob has website.com slash Y X lost feed. And you can, you can do all of those things.

You can wear us. You can hang us in your space. It'll be lovely. Well, Jeff Probst said in his podcast that John was voted out because the others saw him as a threat to win, which sounds premature for the first tribal council. John talked about the tribe not having many strategic discussions, and the TV episode made it look like an issue of John not fitting in with his younger tribe mates. Were any of these the actual explanation? How did the situation with Andy affect the outcome?

At RHAP, we know Survivor and we know why John lost. Ooh. Yes. No shop. No shop. It's part of the rebranding. I love this. So good. Um, the first and most important rule is to scheme and plot. John definitely understood this and made attempts to get himself out of his jam by doing so. The problem was, I don't think he started doing it early enough. In the

show, we saw him getting paired up with Andy almost right away. And in his interviews, John talked about two other pairs forming, Sam and Sierra and Rachel and Annika. And he said he had a good relationship with Annika early, but didn't do a good job of maintaining it. So obviously, that's one thing he could have done. However, there are some hints, both within the show and his interviews, that all may not have been exactly as he thought. Now, we can't 100% confirm this until other members of his tribe who were in the know are voted out and do interviews. But we've seen situations like this before many times. When the player on the outs says things like there was very little strategic conversation or people were reluctant to break into groups to discuss strategy or the like.

It almost always turns out that wasn't quite the case. And rather, other people were discussing strategy. They just weren't discussing it with you. Who would say that? I know. were discussing strategy they just weren't discussing it with you and who would say that i know i i mean that's my suspicion here and i'm like oh i hope this doesn't hit too close to home jake how do you feel about that yeah no that that's correct. Like if, if people, I don't know, maybe back in like 2010, like 2011, maybe that was the case, but you guys, I mean, look, with the people that are casting on new era survival, like everyone's got a plan. Everyone's got to play. Yeah.

Maybe like, I don't know, like a Roxroy has like two plans over you, but like that or no plan at all. But that would be like everyone's got a plan. And if people aren't, if nobody's talking to you, yeah, you know, you should know where you're at. Yeah. Yeah. We saw it, especially last season, you know,

in the early episodes with Venus who kept saying, no one wants to talk strategy. And meanwhile, yeah, they've all made alliances and you're not in them. That's a tough spot. I mean, I felt Venus in that. You know what I mean? Like that's, it's a tough spot. It puts you in a position where you're like, now I need to, how do I do it? And it's a state of panic when it's like, it's kind of like a Chinese figure trap, like, you know, the audio ball.

Yeah. Yeah. And I do think that there's something to be said where if you are not necessarily feeling like you are part of the group and he thought that he had a relationship with andy i don't think he necessarily was trying to foster that beyond andy because if andy was somehow integrating himself with the others he could have utilized andy as a bridge. But it didn't seem like that was necessarily what was happening. It was almost like I've got Andy over here, but I've got some maybe concerns about Andy.

Instead of utilizing Andy, I think in the way that it would have been better for him to try to integrate with everyone. Yeah. Now, some of what John said in interviews was also a little confusing to me because he said people told him right after the challenge that andy was going and he knew they were lying but he also had said as we mentioned that nobody was strategizing before him so how would they have gotten so locked in among the four of them between what happened with Andy and the challenge. And right after when players of course, aren't allowed to talk to each other during transport to and from challenges.

So it seems to me that it is quite possible. They were already locked in against John. Otherwise based on the timeline he gave, they simply didn't have the opportunity to get their stories and plans straight. So I really I know he put some of the blame on what happened with Andy. I don't think that was necessarily what caused it. To the contrary, I think what happened with Andy caused some of them to question the decision they had already made. some of them to question the decision they had already made.

And that may have been what led to discussions, you know, that we saw on the show about like challenge, strength and stability. I think, I think the timeline, you know, that John thinks happened maybe a little off. I think they locked in against John. Yeah. Then they saw what happened. They started debating amongst themselves before rather than kind of flipping it around like like, you know, John was thinking. Yeah, that's an interesting point, because I do think and Jake, you can probably speak to this as well, how quickly determinations are made as to who needs to go. It's one of those like you just you're like, okay, that person has to go. And then someone else will talk, okay, that person has to go. And so there's an agreement. And so if something

happens to derail that initial plan, yes, those, there needs to be follow-up conversations like, oh God, should we still stick with the plan that we made before? Because this happened over here. So I think that's, that's a very valid point that there was probably a pretty certain determination that had been made. It's going to be John. And then all of these things were happening with Andy. So they have to convince themselves that what Andy can still bring to the table is better than what we've got going on with John. And so I think that definitely makes sense as to why that determination was made.

But for viewers looking at it, it likely seemed off because why would you not just choose this person? But you've already chosen a person or chosen a person. So you need to kind of revisit that decision. Yeah, I think in it, I think the interesting thing about the first vote to the newer survivor is that this is the longest cycle, right? Like in new new era someone's getting voted out every two days or one day right after the next right the first the first cycle is three days they had john had three days out there um so by the time they get to the challenge on day three i'd imagine this had already been talked like you guys are saying like i'd imagine it'd been already talked about at length i wouldn't be shocked if what the idea was going in

was andy or john maybe not necessarily locked in on john but andy or john andy does what andy does at the challenge and it's like i'm not afraid of andy anymore It's John, you know, it's like, we don't have to like, it's kind of, I think Andy kind of, I think they could have shied away from voting out Andy after that event. Cause it's kind of Andy showed all his cards. We're not scared of him. And if you look at the past couple of seasons of survival, this kind of idea of a human smoke screen has been used very commonly. I haven't heard it talked about too, too much, but with this season, you may have any last season you had Venus and Q the season before you had me

the season. I don't know, but you know, but there, there's this development of, of a smoke screen person that we're just not, we're not going to bring in that much, but Oh, who are we voting out next? And it's going to be easy to take out those threats you want to take because the vote is almost so obvious. And I think Andy kind of secured himself that for the next round or maybe two. It's true, though, that I feel for the tribe, though, sorry, that I think in keeping Andy and the difference here with having that smokescreen person, which I appreciate and I think is exactly what's likely going to be happening here. Andy has revealed himself to the other tribes as well.

And so that's where things can be a little bit more hinky in the new era survivor when you do have these journeys and when you have these things that people are going to separate from their tribes and individual people from other tribes, that then you have to be concerned because Andy has made it very clear. I'm on the outs. They don't like me. I'm in trouble. So if Andy gets to go on a journey, whoever meets Andy is going to be just waiting and

just I can't wait to talk to this person and find out all of the information. And so there could be some concerns as to what he would share and whether or not he's going to flip if they make it to emerge. And so those are the things that I look at this decision and go, I don't know if necessarily as a group, it's going to be safe because now he's kind of thrown everyone under the bus. It't just john it was everyone and in in this type of gameplay you are allowing him an opportunity to share with other tribes what's going on in your tribe before you even get there i'd agree with that i will say i will say the thing with the smoke this thing with the smoke screen person too is that it always screws over

their original tribe yes it always screws over their original tribe yes it always screws over their original tribe like being a venus is a smokescreen soda tevin hunter goes i'm a smokescreen bruce kelly kendra goes like that's i think that's the only thing that that like you're saying that could become an issue for them down the line. But I think with the, if there is, prior to a swap, this could help someone, whoever, who do we think is, can we talk about who we think is controlling those votes? I think who's ever in charge, like strategically, or who's ever the best positioned,

we'll be able to use effectively. Yeah, we could definitely talk about that more, probably in Appendix A, I think. Okay, okay. I did want to mention another piece of circumstantial evidence in favor of it having been locked in ahead of time that more probably an appendix a i think okay okay um i did want to mention another piece of circumstantial evidence in favor of it having been locked in ahead of time was that andy mentioned in his whole turmoil that he was going to throw john under the bus i don't think that came out

of nowhere i think that was a slip of what he actually planned to do because i think he found out that the others were targeting john uh which, you know, would have been obviously before the challenge. I can't tell you how he would have found out if I had to guess, maybe he heard it from Rachel before he had that bad night's sleep and, and wasn't on her good side anymore. I mean, quite honestly, that might help might've helped cause his bad night's sleep. Just thinking about, Oh my gosh, I'm in quite honestly, that might have helped cause his bad night's sleep. Just thinking about, oh, my gosh, I'm in with John, but now I've heard that John could be the target. What am I going to do?

You know, I mean, now I'm really diving deep into what might be. Well, you know, that's what you have to do. You have to dive deep. That's right. That's right. Dig deep. Survivor, you dig deep. I know you dive deep but

also you go when you're going into a well you might be diving deep oh yes well you and then you dive into it yes all right well that this would of, lead us to wonder why they would have locked in against John rather than Andy at that point. Let's wait for that because it comes back to some actions we'll discuss in later rules. For now, within this rule, what I think we could say is John took a swing to change things up by trying to get Sam to join himself and Andy to vote out Annika. But we also saw Sam quickly reject the idea, which further tells me that things were already set by that point. And indeed, John told Rob he's very confident that it was already him as the target

before he put Annika's name out there. But he tried. Yeah. And Sam was great in that scene, too. I've got to give him credit for really seeming to acknowledge that idea and acting like, yeah no this this sounds like that that would be a good plan and then immediately I was like no yeah he did so good in that moment that was great I like Sam I like Sam a lot I I think he's he's going deep

right like that would be a huge blind side if he got yeah like he's just the kind of guy it's it's blindsided he got yeah like he's just the kind of guy it's it's he gives me very and i said this about hunter last season and like my person who i compare to compare him to like austin you know what i mean like he he gets along with everyone like he's clearly a smart dude but you're not worried about getting stabbed in the back by you know at, at least early on. Yeah. You know, and he's, you know, he's a bears fan. So, you know, obviously he's, you know, going to do well. Now before he may have to keep that whole bears fan thing under wrap since he works for the Titans now. So sorry. But he grew up near me.

So before John's interviews, I was thinking John should have turned on Andy and done everything he could to get people to go with what seemed to be the easy vote after hearing the situation in terms of conversations he had and how people were insisting that they were voting Andy. I understand why he couldn't really do more in that department. And he said in another interview that he believes he had a conversation with Anika to try to throw the vote on Andy. But again, the problem was she said she was already doing that. So how do you change a vote against you when everyone is insisting that

they're already voting the way you want right yeah tough spot i do think yeah i do think the first vote can be a runaway i i think the first vote and we've seen in a lot of seasons can just be like there's i don't want to say there's nothing anyone can do i think it's like early on like literally those first couple minutes you have to integrate yourself but i think like we're talking about day three what could have john have done the morning of day three probably not a lot yeah that if we're taking this exactly that ball was all you know that snowball was already darn near the bottom of the hill at that point you know it's almost by the time you realize that sometimes it's too late yeah fortunately for john yeah all right well we can go to the

second rule which says not to scheme and plot too much And to keep your scheming secret Now right off the bat I think we have Part of the answer To how the vote got locked in Against him earlier He and Andy

Went off to get logs And we saw on the show That Andy Said he was the one Who pulled John aside And then John said the same thing In his interviews Noting

Andy pulled me for one second On day one All of a sudden i'm tied to andy personally by the way i don't necessarily think that was all that tied him to andy i think it was his own joking at the at the mat when andy's like i had four friends in high school and john's like four friends you're lucky you know they were kind of trying to out nerd each other at that point. So, but, um, but anyway, what we also saw was John immediately got the blame.

So Andy pulls him aside and Sierra tells the other three, John grabbed Andy and took him away. Yeah. So that showed who the other fourth thought was the one who was being scheming. The facts didn't matter. Only the perception did. Yes. Which is something we have talked about ad nauseum. Perception becomes reality. So if you don't want to be locked in with someone, don't disappear with that person within the first five minutes of being on

the island, period. Yeah, that's, I mean, they were scheming and plotting too much perception bit not actually tied to that anchor yeah but yeah but that's what happens I mean you could have been like and I can use an example from my

season where we happen to be like first day we're setting everything up trying to get the camp life structured in a in a fashion that would make everyone happy and i happen to look over and i see that sunday is digging a hole and she's digging a hole with one of the with cc and they're like over off in the woods and i was like why are they digging and it was this whole like thing and then we were all like oh my god they're digging do you know what

they were doing they were digging a poop spot but but everyone, but we saw it and like, and production actually went over and told them that's not a good poop spot because it was too close to the camp. But that's what they had decided. They're like, we're going to big, this is going to be our poop spot. And that was all they were doing. But from anyone outside looking in, you're like, oh my God, they're digging, they're looking for something. They're in cahoots. They're working together. No, it was a poop spot. So this is what I'm saying.

Like, immediately, whatever you do, people are going to respond in a particular way. They're going to assume certain things that they just don't know because they're playing survivor. So, yes, it's something as simple as pulling someone aside to go look for wood or what. And then, yeah, now you're locked in and now you're together. Yeah. Also, you know, John told Mike Bloom, I don't know that there's a way for me to play the game without coming across as strategic and smart, to be honest. Now, I would say there was a way, but it would have meant hiding who he was. And he also told Mike, I wasn't going to not be myself because I'd rather go home as myself than try to hide and

kind of soften the edges and never have been on the show at all. So could I have done something different? Yes. I think there are ways I could have been a little less brazen in terms of being strategic, maybe. And that part, I agree with him. He could have done something different. He chose not to. That's up to him. You know, Andy, on the other hand, was hiding that side of himself. And one of his tribe mates even commented that he wasn't very strategic. I think it was Rachel, but I'm not 100% sure. You know, everybody comes into Survivor a little bit differently. Some admit to being to lawyers. Some pretend to have different jobs. Some admit to being- I feel a little called out out jake what do you think

quickly defending that right before we went to go film survivor 45 josh was just voted out and outed for being a doctor i'm like and my whole thinking behind it is like my demeanor i think is gonna counteract that i think there was other reasons why i was put on the bottom i don't think it was because i was attorney i think it was unfortunate that i started on a tribe with another person who also was an attorney and that didn't work out well but listen i i was a photographer i i never admitted i was a lawyer so listen i i understand entirely needing to perhaps hide some components of yourself so yeah but lawyers seem to be taking over survivor as of late. So this is, this is a good time for us. Yeah. It's a great time for us.

I mean, I wish we had more million dollars, but yeah, that is a very fair point for sure. Yes. Yule and Nick, right. That's it. Yule wasn't at the time. Yeah. Oh, he wasn't at the time yeah oh he wasn't at the time yeah okay i didn't think you i because i i i could be incorrect and someone correct me if i if i am wrong but i thought i thought that nick was the first attorney that actually won okay but i don't know okay um yeah i mean so basically you know what it comes down to is you know some people people admit different things some admit to being smart and strategic some do their best to hide it

the problem is like you just said jake sometimes one of those things can be held against you but it could also be held against you if you hide it like you said with dr josh and you're found out yes can i say that like i do think that like john being viewed as a smart guy like viewed as being more intelligent or more of a threat than andy i i don't think that matters if he's just in early right like in the determination like after the four solidified themselves like sam and the women on the tribe solidify themselves okay andy and john are the two people on the outs between the two of them john is smarter but if you if you don't even have to go into that logic of between the two you're in the original four like i think

john might be right he might not be able to play it down so much especially where even if he talks about his job he does a political podcast and you know he's clearly you can tell he's a well-read guy and you can only hide that for so long even if he's gonna attempt to do that just based on his occupation like i think if it comes down to that he's always going to be viewed as the smarter person maybe not as big a bigger threat as the other person but he's always going to be viewed as that kind of way. I think his way was to get into the four if he could. Unfortunately, the train kind of leaves the station quicker than you'd expect. Yeah, I agree.

A lot of this, I think the theme that we're seeing is going to be comparatively. You know, and in this case, you know, when you see two people go off, you believe one of them is strategic and the other one isn't. Well, who are you going to blame? So even though Andy was the one who pulled him aside, John got the blame. Oh, that's yeah. That's a, that's a very, very valid point.

Yeah. All right. Well, the third rule tells players to be flexible. And I know we've already discussed a lot about John's attempts or lack of attempts to strategize, but Jake, what did you think of John's flexibility in the few days that we saw him? I mean, I didn't, I didn't think it was bad, right? Like, I mean, he was clearly ready to shake things up. He wasn't, I think we saw that.

As soon as he's like, Oh, you're the backup vote, John's like, hmm, maybe we do Anika. Maybe we switch it up. Especially for the first, I understand. Sometimes the situations in the game where you just have to bite the bullet and accept that you're going to be the backup person. I do believe that. But I don't think you should really be asking anyone to be that for the

first vote yeah you know what I mean like it and I I wouldn't expect any player going out there don't don't bite the bullet I would recommend not biting the bullet on that one do not bite the bullet on the first vote of being the backup target and clearly John didn't do that and attempted to do something about it. Wasn't successful. But yeah, I don't think John's problem was flexibility at all. Yeah, no, I'd agree.

Yeah, I agree with you. It's a little hard for me to say. In his interviews, he repeatedly talked about the situation he was in and the way it kind of narrowed down the possible options to just him i do think we have to go back to what he said about a missed opportunity uh to connect more with annika as key because you know once he got tagged as andy's partner you know like we've been

discussing he was kind of stuck yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i think there's a difference between flexibility of being able to do anything right versus right being willing to do it right yes like in terms of willing to do anything i think that john was that i i think in ability to obviously not yeah all right we can go to the fourth rule which tells players not to let their emotions control them. And while we certainly saw one member of this tribe get emotions, emotional, that's a different story for another day. Jessica,

how do you think John did here? I feel like he actually did a really nice job at controlling himself, considering what Jake was just talking about, being told that you're going to be the backup vote. FYI. And he didn't want to be that, but he didn't respond in a way that was like, oh my gosh, no, he just kind of accepted it. Probably should have said something more at that point in time, because as Jake was just

saying that you don't want to be the backup vote because that means you might be the vote. So I do think that he did manage to keep things in check. Also, when you're getting called out in front of every other member of every tribe that I was going to throw John under the bus, like, whoa, whoa, what did I do? I didn't do anything. And he just stood there and just took it. And so that had to have been a very uncomfortable moment.

And I feel like I would want to say something like, listen, I'm not sure what he's even talking about, why I'm being thrown under the bus, because you have to be mindful of who your audience is. It's not just your own tribe. It's the people over on the other mats that know nothing of what's going on. And they're just going to read into that. So if there's a chance that John saves himself and then they come back to the mat and they see john the other people might be a little suspicious of john and if there's a swap or if there's a journey so there's all of these other permutations that he needed to be thinking about and the fact that he didn't respond i was quite surprised i was quite surprised his ability to keep that in check yeah that was that was really impressive like two very difficult situations i don't know if i would have reacted the same way. And I don't know if a lot of like if if this shows casting, I don't want to say like John's obviously casting. If this shows casting correctly, 50% of the people cast should not be able to handle that. And luckily for John, John was able to handle both of those effectively.

handled both of those effectively yeah i mean he did he responded in a you know fairly logical way kind of explaining what andy had said in a more neutral manner but remember what john does for a living i think it's safe to say he's used to being on the receiving end of a wide variety of very emotional insults and attacks much worse much much worse than anything Andy, you know, indicated here. So, you know, maybe he, that experience has made him better able to handle something that was much tamer in comparison. I want to run through this real quick. Do we think if John, if John in the moment on the mat is like, honestly, Andy, F you. What, what, what's going on? And he like got mad and maybe seemed a little unhinged

back towards andy is there the possibility that that helps well at that point why not try it right like so they're trying like you go back to camp and we're like honestly fuck this guy like they're like yeah this is ridiculous oh my god like because because the whole conversation was wow john handled that greatly and he did but he still went home maybe he's right he's there just lost it right if he's just like honestly jeff this is ridiculous this guy says he's seen every season bye bye bye you know what I mean just go in I would I think I love this I love this approach go all in and just leave it on the mat right there just be like listen like look at the other truck like

are you all hearing this did you see what just happened like are we kidding something that would have been I think that would have been great a great moment that would have been a great moment i i'm like kind of like how could john stay in the after like day two of things being decided i don't know because like people do get a lot like if people don't like somebody and if the the tribe doesn't like andy right now and john can kind of come in and it's like honestly yeah guys like this is ridiculous what, what are we doing here? You know, maybe, I don't know if like, maybe like a 15% chance it might've worked. Yeah. But I, I can't think it's zero. I can't think it's zero. Out smoke screen, the smoke screen, you know, out, out,

out Venus Venus, you know, out. Yes. I like this. I like this approach a lot. Well, he's going to get saved from being the smoke screen. I can start, you know, build a fire, puffing more smoke. You know what I mean? I don't know.

I don't think it's a 0% chance. I don't think it's a 0% chance. He should have completely violated this rule and just gone totally emotional on this. And then that's what we would have been talking about. Or talking about Andy. I mean, who knows? There's so many possibilities. Not to win. Not to win. Not the rules of survival to win, but to survive

the vote. Yes. That is a very good point to make. Like this is, you always need to make it to the next day right and things can shift and change so it's not a bad it's not a bad plan i like to think there's a 15 chance that that would have worked in safety i like it i like it i support this i do i like that that oh my god that would have been hysterical um all right. Well, we can move to the fifth rule, which reminds players they need to pretend to be nice unless they're going off on someone in response.

Yes. And play the social game. I don't think there's any doubt that John was nice. Maybe Jake a little too nice, according to your possible plan there. But the real question here is how he did in the social game aspect. It was portrayed somewhat as if he didn't really fit in. So Jake, what do you think?

For in, in terms of him fitting it? Yeah, I think he was, I mean, he said in exit interviews, he may have been to, what'd he say? Brazen with people. Was that what he was saying? He said that going in that he could oh going in i couldn't yeah i mean yeah yeah he he came across he came across as nice i think it's it was just getting in with the people right away that didn't happen i mean his confessionals were his confessionals weren't that biting even like you know i know when we think of this we think of like boss and robin talking crap and confessionals but confessionals weren't they were fun they were funny he's a funny guy but they weren't

screw these people these people are crazy i mean he had some comments about andy's losing it a little bit but nothing really super biting i i don't have any reason to believe when they didn't know his podcast like might have been more ticked up but yeah you seem like a really nice guy out there you know yeah he's a little insulted it'd be like Bloomberg going out there and they'd be like what you don't know who I am yeah I'm wearing a podcaster shirt what the hell um yeah I mean John did tell Mike Bloom he thought it through afterwards and wondered did he have trouble fitting in or was he building good connections was it a social problem and his answer to himself was maybe a little bit of the latter but he goes back in his mind to it being what he described as quote an outcome of the strategic dynamics uh not social ones because much like andy showed us it was a

math problem with a group of six he added uh to dalton ross sam and sierra seemed to pair right away annika and rachel were in the middle and it was me and Andy. And I think what you saw in the episode was real, which is that Rachel really discounted Andy. So then there was just a natural flow towards Sam and Sierra. And that really had nothing to do with me. I really do think it was less of a social thing and more of just a strategic challenge in a group of six people where there's nowhere to hide.

So again, that was him telling Dalton that. Yeah. But I also feel like him in his, uh, press that he provided pregame press, I was really hopeful that he was going to kind of be that. I almost want to say like a David Wright kind of personality where he's he's able to connect in a way that's almost self-deprecating but then also doesn't seem to be any type of a concern but I don't know if he's necessarily able to connect that way with people because I think Jake you've already said he's clearly very well read. He's a smart individual. And if you are not able to connect in a way that also minimizes that part of you,

then that can be the focal point, right? That like, oh, he seems nice, but he also seems there's something else there. Like he's, he's very smart. He's well, he's well read. There's something going on, which then can elevate you to a different level in the minds of people you're playing survivor with. Whereas if you have Andy, who's like an open book, Andy's just like putting it all out there. Like this is exactly what's going on and I'm not a strategic person. And they're not going to think you're a strategic person because of the way that you're behaving. And so I think when you're,

when you start to like kind of weigh that out with each other, he becomes more of a concern. Even if he's getting along with everyone, there's something a little more questionable about what's going on under the surface with John. And I just think that's the way John is. So he's a he's a fine, lovely person and he's sociable. But there's something else there that just leads them to question. Is he being a little more underhanded and sneaky? Right. Yeah.

Now, even with all of this, John also told Mike Bloom, I had some really good moments with Annika, with Rachel and with Andy. They were really funny, good conversations with everyone. But that, to me, was where I felt the most comfortable. And what I had hoped would happen, what I expected would happen, is Rachel, Annika, and I. I had a natural affinity with Annika and with Rachel. I just feel like we're the kind of people that would get along. I continue to believe that's true. And so I felt like what would ultimately happen if we had to go to vote is it would basically be persuading Annika and Rachel to come along with

me and with Andy. But of course that didn't happen. So, you know, were his connections not as tight as he thought, or does it go back to what I quoted a moment ago about it not being social, but strategic? I suspect it was the latter. I think it's easier for the TV show to make it look like he wasn't fitting in because of his age or personality or whatever. It's easier for them to do that than to explain the strategic dynamic of what was happening. Yeah. And if you're that other group and you're trying to decide who you want to lock in with, are you going to lock in with the person who is not it's kind of almost having a meltdown and then you've also got the person that is you're like questioning well he's nice but we think that he's a little more strategic like or do you go the two people are like there's no issues over here you know it's like it kind of seems to be like an easy choice when you're weighing those two options yeah i

think that in this case you you know, in the first three days, uh, you know, it's often said you can't, it's said about survivor. It's said about poker. It's said about lots of things. You can't win in the first three days, but you can lose in the first three days. And that's where this rule kind of comes in. You know, your social game is not going to be so amazing. Probably that people are going say, oh, my God, look at this person. We must keep them around, even though the strategy says not to. But you can have a social game that's so bad that people are like, we have to get rid of this person. John didn't have that.

That's not what I'm saying at all what i'm saying is even as he was saying he had good social relationships with people it just wasn't enough to save him from the strategy that was going on yeah yeah all right well the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat and jeff probst said in the on fire podcast i referenced this earlier that he thinks people saw john as this incredible storyteller who could win the game making him a threat jeff is overthinking it and the other players didn't go that deep i'm sorry pretty much none of them even knew who he was so the only thing they could judge was their own interaction with him and what he told them

and just as confirmation of this mike bloom Bloom tweeted out an image that said that showed someone saying, what the blank is that? And the caption was the Gata tribe. When John describes his podcast, Sierra quote tweeted it and said facts. So if John was a threat, it wasn't for that reason it you know they didn't know who he was right right and he though he did he did have some great commentary on the mat right off the rip it's always good when you can like get that sound bite back right at jeff and you're like yeah look at what i just did so i'm sure that that made a few people pause and realize hmm he's quick on his feet

but who knows if it went any further than that I wouldn't have known John going out there the first time I learned about John and him being the whole thing what he did was I got a text from someone being like why did you tell me John John Lovett was on Survivors like I

number one didn't know number two the fuck is that i have to admit as much as you know as as involved as i am in politics uh i mean you know when when someone said the name yeah after i realized it wasn't john lovett's uh yeah you know it was like, okay, that name sounds familiar. Yeah. I've heard the, I've heard the name of the podcast, but as many podcasts as I listened to, I don't listen to, yeah, I listened to, you know, maybe one or two podcasts that deal with political topics. I frequently guessed on one that deals with sometimes with political topics but um i don't listen to that podcast it's you know so i i certainly wouldn't have known him by sight either right yeah i consider myself like i pay attention to politics a lot yeah no clue my bad sorry john you're great though stuff that i

hear now why wasn't i listening yeah but see it's great advertising for his podcast oh yeah I feel like now that I now that John's been on it like the stuff that I do listen to politically like I do hear oh the pod the pod say it froze and I'm like oh okay yeah cool yeah um yeah and there was plenty going on with with pod save America while he was out on the island. There was lots of big discussions and arguments going on with them. He was probably better off on the island during that time, honestly. But anyway, getting away from that, it's, you know, since we're still in the sixth rule talking about threats, I'm not saying that John wasn't the threat. You know, Jessica, like you said, he showed he was smart on his feet. Yeah.

And we discussed in the second rule that he was seen as perhaps being too strategic. And we saw that on TV as well. After he tried to get Sam to turn on Anika, Sam said in confessional that John was very smart and a strategist. I mean, yeah, that happened after I believe the vote was locked in. But I don't think Sam just suddenly kind of light bulb moment came to that idea. I think it was something he'd already been thinking.

Because, again, remember what I mentioned earlier about the tribe blaming John for pulling Andy away. But I think more importantly than John being specifically a big threat. This gets back, Jake, to what you were saying earlier. He was seen as more of a threat specifically than Andy. If the other four already considered themselves an alliance, which I think it's clear they did, then the choice came down to John or Andy, like we were saying. And remember that Rachel said she didn't see Andy as a strategist,

so that reduced his threat level. And of course, after what happened with Andy at the challenge, as John told Dalton Ross, Andy is now weakened in front of the whole tribe. At that moment, everybody is recognizing that Andy is basically someone you're either going to carry along or get rid of, but isn't really a threat anymore. So in comparison, even not knowing much about John outside the game, he was still seen as more of a threat to Mandy.

Yeah. All right. Well, we can move to the seventh rule, which covers idols and advantages in game mechanics. And, you know, John didn't find any clues or keys or boxes within boxes within boxes. So many boxes. So many boxes.

I said at the time, you know, when uh one of them i think it was gabe was pulling the box out of the ground um i if this had been australian survivor he just ripped the lid off you know an australian survivor they did that they couldn't get the key so they just ripped the lid off the box and they were like production was like okay um so uh but but john didn't have that opportunity uh he did have a decision to make about the shot in the dark and he explained in his interviews that he figured his plan to get sam and sierra on his and andy's side to vote out annika had about a 20 chance of working which is a little higher than using the shot it's not clear to me how he came up with that number out of like pulling it out of thin air.

Considering that he said in interviews that the women were seeming to get pretty tight. In addition to having the three groups of two, which we talked about earlier. And you know, he, he also told Rob, he knows he was the target before he put Anika's name out there. It just seems to me that the odds were slimmer than the one in six chance he'd have with a shot in the dark. And, you know, Jake, you put him at a 15 percent chance of being successful. If if, you know, he went, you know, bat guano crazy on Andy in response.

So that's also pretty close to shot in the dark level there. Yeah. I mean, looking at the numbers, I did, I did hear those comments about the considerations of Anika versus playing shot in the dark. Yeah, just play it. I think, and honestly, I think there's also a strategic benefit to no longer having shot in the dark moving down the line in the game i think having the option makes you more more unreliable to your alliance because you do have the opportunity to

not vote if you don't have the shot in the dark you're voting barring some other production thing but i like because after i played mine i was it was kind of like a weight off my shoulders it's like oh yeah i don't have it but there's not much sense of security in having it anyway right so i think i i think if especially in this circumstance i think play it but then even the benefit down the line i think is worthwhile playing it regardless of the outcome the shot in the line I think is worthwhile playing it regardless of the outcome the shot in the dark yeah obviously he needed the uncertain outcome here yeah yeah all right well we can move to appendix a which is about the players keeping their end goals in mind when voting and we talk about voting out the weak then the strong than the weak than the strong

we saw a lot of debate involving whether the tribe should keep Andy for his physical strength and challenges compared to John. And Andy did show strength in the challenge with the chests and helping to pull up the boat. And others, you know, talk to him about now. Admittedly, they were trying to make him feel better, but, you know, said he provided bamboo and shelter, et cetera. And right there is a perfect example of the strong versus weak situation. But of course, we here on this podcast know it goes deeper than that because it's not just about challenge strength, which is one reason there was a debate within the four. In addition to being physically stronger, Andy was seen as being a potential stronger ally because he'd be theoretically easier to control.

Now, earlier, you know, we talked a little bit about him being possibly a weaker ally. But from John's standpoint, at least, like he said to Mike Bloom that Andy blew up in front of the whole cast. So he's going to have to be loyal to his tribe mates. Quote, everybody else has already seen he's unreliable. He'll be in your debt. And then on the flip side, John noted that John himself was more strategic and others tribes could work with him.

So from a unity or alliance standpoint, John was also weaker in terms of what the other players on his tribe fought. Yes, but it is. weaker in terms of what the other players on this tribe fought yes but it is it does come with that risk because if you believe that andy is going to now owe you his loyalty you better hope that that loyalty sticks around and you better make him feel like he's really part of the group moving forward when there's those journeys and when there's the merge because otherwise if he's still feeling like he's on the outs he is not going to be so strong in that group and that alliance as you hope he's going to be they might just end up flipping

and i also disagree with john where he's kind of exposed himself to the other tribes like obviously they all saw the blow up there's no mistaking that but seeing something on a mat and then spending a couple hours with the person having conversations if you hit a merge or swap are two wildly different things like i i remember in my season like people that i didn't see prior to the merge like i had certain perceptions of them and then you get to the merge and you're like like i i know i had this conversation like early on in bella we would say oh drew you know because he's acting a certain way on the mat. But then I got to the merch, and I'm like, oh, I really like Drew. Like, Drew's done what I would hang out with.

Maybe he didn't so much, you know. Well, later strategic things, but in terms of, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but in terms of John saying, oh, he's exposed himself to everyone else, and no one else is going to want to work with him down the line, I don't think that's necessarily true. Right. Yeah. Again, what matters going to want to work with him down the line. I don't think that's necessarily true. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. As well. Again, what matters is what the tribe thought was true. Right. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it was the best strategic move for them.

I'm happy. We get to see more of Andy, obviously, but right. It'll be right for someone wrong for someone else. Oh, yeah. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. With that, it is about time to wrap things up uh so jake what are your final thoughts on john i you know what john he didn't do a lot wrong there's like he i i think the train left the station without without him and i don't think there's much he could have done at that point i mean I think that's my final analysis I thought John was obviously very funny effing podcast host so it's my favorite line no offense to anyone on this one currently but I thought that was funny we're missing out but we got we got a taste and I'm excited to see more of the people who

we maybe didn't get to see too much in this episode all right jessica what are your thoughts well john pod save america but john couldn't save himself on survivor so that's unfortunate for john i know and i i feel bad but i do think that john had what it takes to really do well in this game. But it's just a matter of, and I think Jake, you said it so poignantly, you've got three days. And three days to either make or break your connections with these individuals that you're playing the game with. And the ability to connect with them in a way that's going to make them want to keep you as opposed to looking at you and questioning whether or not they can. And I do think that we're looking at a group of six people and they have to weigh what each person brings to the table. And right now, do I think that this group made the best decision by taking Andy over John? I'm with that decision because I do feel like there is something to be said about whether or not Andy will maintain loyalty to them down the road if he's already feeling like he's on the outs.

Where someone like John, he might be an unknown, but I don't think you necessarily have to worry about his loyalty. You might have to worry about his strategic ability, but not necessarily his loyalty moving forward. his strategic ability, but not necessarily his loyalty moving forward. And so I do think that there is some issue with the choice that was made by the group. But John was in a situation where he had to work with that group. And unfortunately, he found himself in a spot where he was immediately tied to Andy and not really necessarily connecting on the same level as the other four people were connecting with each other. And it put him in a really bad spot. I do think that there's something to be said about the numbers that he went through and who is connecting with who. But when you come to that

point where you realize it's six people only, you got to get in right away. And those are the moments that matter. And if you don't get in right away, you're going to be on the outs right away and those are the moments that matter and if you don't get in right away you're going to be on the outs right away and unfortunately for john this is where we found him before i get to my conclusion jessica you just said something and jake that i it occurred to me and i didn't think of it earlier these players saw what happened last season in at least the first half of the season there was a lot of discussion in the after the first episode when they voted out jelinski and then the very next challenge they were like oh we could have really used a tall guy who had these physical characteristics and got it up i do wonder how much that played into it you know because there was a lot of

discussion about that at the time when people were like no you should have gotten rid of banu uh and so now i'm not equating john with banu in any way uh i'm just saying you know when it comes to some of the physical i do wonder if that played in their thoughts yes but anyway uh john found himself on a tribe where being 41 made him the oldest person there. While that didn't help him integrate, it also wasn't a key factor. Just look at Sue on the other tribe. Andy and John both introduced themselves as kind of introverted nerds of the tribe

and more or less naturally came together. Further sparked by Andy pulling John aside. Meanwhile, the other four gravitated to each other in two duos and each seemed to have their concerns about John and Andy. While the other players didn't really know who John was in terms of his full history, he did introduce himself as a podcaster. And right there, that told him he was obviously incredibly smart. I mean, that's clear. There's no other way that could go. Yeah. But more seriously, I do think for the other players just talking to John, as he said to himself, or as he said himself, I don't know that there's a way for me to play

the game without coming across as strategic and smart. They saw that. While what they saw of Andy, even before the challenge, did not make him seem like a strategist. It did, however, seem like he could help them in physical challenges and they might be better able to control. I do think there were opportunities for John to break through. He acknowledged as much when it came to Annika earlier. Even more than that, players can't assume that just because people aren't strategizing with you, that means they aren't strategizing at all. Something was clearly going on with the other four. And based even on what John said, they either had a plan to target him before the challenge or were so closely aligned in thought that they could put such a

plan into effect mere moments afterwards. Through the strategic and social dynamics of the first few days, it came down to either Andy or John. Andy had more physical strength. Andy seemed less strategic. Andy would theoretically be in their debt and wouldn't have anywhere else to go. John's tribe had the choice of love it or leave it. And they chose leave it. And that is why John lost. Wow. That was pro. That was some pro. That was some pro stuff right there. I'm an effing podcaster. There you go. that was good it's great oh i do love that

all right well uh before we get to our predictions for next episode uh i want to remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are available in poster and t-shirt or poster on a t-shirt and checklist on a t-shirt form again go to rob has website.com slash yx lost feed and you can get all of those you should buy them yes uh so jessica in the meantime again before we get to predictions where can people find all of us i always forget the order of things around here. So, yes, you can certainly find me. I'm at JessicaLewis89. I'm also, and that's on Twitter, Instagram.

I'm at JessicaLewis6789. I spend less time on Instagram. I just basically steal all of the content that David Bloomberg puts out. So thank you for that, David Bloomberg. Because David Bloomberg, as many of you likely know, is all over social media, so much so that he has his very own link tree that lists out everything that he does. So you can find all of the incredible content that he does create on so many platforms. So, David, tell them where they can find you.

Yes, I have the link tree at link tree slash David Bloomberg with a dot before the E in the URL. You can find me more directly on Twitter and blue skies at David Bloomberg on threads is at David Bloomberg TV. And I'm on the video platforms YouTube, TikTok, Instagram is at David Bloomberg TV. I've been posting three or more videos per day all summer long. Right now I'm'm, of course, posting clips from Survivor and Big Brother, plus a few from other shows like The Anonymous and The Circle. In addition, be sure that you're watching or listening to the Big Brother version of Why Blank Lost, where I have Big Brother 21's Ovi Kabir as my co-host. We still have a few weeks of double duty for me in that regard there Jake where can people find you

on Instagram I'm Jake O period Kane and on Twitter I'm like Jake O underscore Kane I think you know you have to switch it up that's right that's right David I gotta appreciate your social media that I am still tagged when I broke Jeff's toys i like that i'm still pinned up there so you are that you are you

that was one of the you know the the the most viewed um that i have at least i think it's on is it on instagram where um i think it might be Instagram or Instagram. Yeah. There's a Instagram. There are 2.2 million views of you breaking, uh, the challenge. Um, and look at you, Jay. So, so, and then, uh, you know, there's probably a lot on YouTube and Tik TOK as well. That's not as easy to see, but yeah, you're, there's probably a lot on YouTube and TikTok as well. That's not as easy to see. But yeah, you're still pinned up there. Good stuff.

I didn't break anything today. So I consider this an accomplishment, getting through a Survivor-related thing and not breaking anything. We're not done yet because we still have predictions. Oh, gosh. So hopefully you don't break anything in predictions. I don't like predictions. I know. I'll go first.

Okay. So the previews didn't give us much. There is, of course, more focus on Andy and on the other tribe. Rome is a lot. Rome is fine. Yeah. I'm really not sure what's going on in the third tribe. I'm going to guess they're safe. I think Lavo, so that's the red tribe, will lose the immunity challenge. And, you know, everybody in RHAP is going to be like, no! It seems, though, like Asia, Teenie, Kishan, and Sol are all on the same page. There was a secret scene in which Sol tried to tell Rome that he was drawing attention by leaving camp,

but Rome totally misinterpreted the gesture. Saul's trying to be nice to him. And then Rome is like, Oh, why are you telling me this? You, you must, you know, you must be after me. And then went to talk to Genevieve about it. That plus what we saw in the first episode tells me Rome and Genevieve are tight. Now, Jessica, I told you I would not predict that Rome is going. And that's because we already saw Asia is worried he might have the immunity idol.

He's just very smart. And there's a lot of very smart people on that tribe. So I think what they're going to do is flush the idol and vote out Genevieve. Genevieve. I really liked her in that secret scene. I liked her in that secret scene. I thought she was funny. Sorry, Jess, I cut you off.

But I like Genevieve in that secret scene. I don't want to see her go but i i had when we did our our initial podcast there was this whole thing about genevieve because she decided that rather than continue to practice making fire she was going to play uh some video game for 40 hours or something so i was like genevieve like what are you doing genevieve uh like why would you do that uh to be fair it's a very fun video game oh okay i have jumped at least 40 hours into it baldur's gate to the detriment of learning to make fire well it wasn't out when i was going out to play survivor so i don't know i might i might have done the same thing as jenna you had it been out at the time well i think uh I think differently

I think I'm going to go back to I feel like we're going to have a repeat yellow tribe kind of situation happening because I know it's been it's been years right this just keeps this is on repeat it's almost like a cut and paste kind of response to things that we

have seen previously where the tribe makes a decision and I think they've made the decision for the correct reason and then they realize the next next time around they're like crap maybe we shouldn't have made that decision that I think we should have done something differently and I I feel like we're going to be looking at the yellow tribe going back to tribal council and I do think unfortunately that's going to leave Andy right back where he was before. And I think Andy's going to be going home. That's my that's my pick. I think I agree. I think I think God is going to lose again.

I think. But I don't I don't think it will be. I don't think it will be Andy. I don't think it will be Andy. think it will be i don't think it will be andy i okay i don't think it'll be years i i do i feel like either andy's gonna find something or andy's on a trajectory for someone who is it's weird because i feel like we we know there's two pairs between sam and sierra being viewed as a pair and rachel and annika so in my mind i'm kind of thinking maybe I'm getting into like the edit a little too much I think between the two pairs Rachel was shown more between her and Annika and

then Sam was shown between more between him and um Sierra so I'm like going back and forth between Annika and Sierra here on who I think because I I don't know I don't think Andy's going I the logic would say he's going but based on I think I think he's going to find something or I think that someone like Sam or someone like Rachel is going to be like you know what I can use this um yeah I mean that makes a lot of sense if they recognize that they're in duos and john also said to sam watch out for the women getting together then maybe it's sam and sierra pick him up yeah no so unfortunately as much as i love her i i'm gonna say annika just because if Sam's the glue guy is Rachel the glue girl

yeah he did say that yeah I would I would guess Annika I could be very wrong and he might be gone it might be a very boring episode and he might just it might be a foregone conclusion I think

if I had to pick between you two Jake I would side with your prediction I just think you're right sorry and Jessica we know how much you love doing predictions I know that is fair that is fair I have a tendency to not pick correctly

so congratulations Andy I guess you are not going home That is fair. I have a tendency to not pick correctly. So congratulations, Andy. I guess you are not going home. This is, there we are. Now Andy's going to go home. He's going home now. Damn butterfly effects. I have to control these so much better. Gosh, I'm so sorry, Survivor players.

All right. Well, as we wrap up here, I want to encourage people to check out the RJP patron program at robhaswebsite.com slash patron. You can get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons, plus Facebook groups and discord. So, you know, you can help support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at robhaswebsite.com slash patron. Also make sure you're subscribed to all of the RHAP Survivor Podcast by going to the newly updated and rebranded

website, WeKnowSurvivor.com. So you go there, you'll see all the different podcasts, you can subscribe, you know, according to whatever service you use, and you'll find all the great Survivor content there like

us, the Know It Alls the B&B, Survivor International, there's a bunch of effing podcasters there so with that I would like to thank some people yes? Alright all of those effing podcasters out there want to

thank everyone at rhap for the incredible work that they do yes they know survivor and they know reality tv like you don't even know scott saint pierre we really appreciate all of the editing that you create with all of the content that you put together and jessica sterling thank you too as well also producing editing and everyone at the rhap staff and team that makes all of this possible. So we really do appreciate the work that you do. None of this would be possible without the people behind the scenes putting it together. So thank you so much. Right. We need effing producers and effing editors and effing graphic artists and all of those people. That's right. And we also need people like,

I don't know, effing guests. So thank you, Jake, for being here and joining us today. It's been such a great time getting to chat with you. I really appreciate your insight. Lovely, lovely time. And I hope to see you come back and join us again sometime.

Oh, my God. Yeah, guys, thank you so much for having me. I've never been called an effing guest before. I've been called an effing lawyer. But, you know, like it's nice for the mix up. So thank you. But thank you guys for having me on. This is a lot of fun. I love the podcast. I hope no one gets voted out next week. You know what I mean? Right. Right. That'd be great. In a perfect world. Yes. Thank you, Jake. It was a lot of fun. We enjoyed we enjoyed having you, uh, help us welcome survivor back, uh, Jessica,

thanks for another great episode. Uh, next week, we will welcome back returning guest Lindsay Carmine. And, uh, in the meantime, uh, of course, watch for, uh, me and Ovi talking about big brother. You know, we had one that was, uh, that we just finished yesterday. And, uh, so there was that Y blank loss and then we have a double eviction coming up. So next week, uh, next Friday, my day is going to consist of podcasts about three different people. Uh, and so, yeah, you know, that'll be a lot of fun,

but you are an effing podcaster. So deal with it. That's right. That's right. There you go. All right. We will see everyone back here in a week. Thanks a lot. Bye. If you lost Survivor and you're feeling down David and Jessica will turn it around They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how

You played yourself and got voted out this is why blank lost this is why blank lost oh baby this is why blank lost