RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why ___ Lost: Survivor 48 Ep 7 with Heidi Lagares-Greenblatt

Episode Date: April 12, 2025

Why ___ Lost: Survivor 48 Ep 7 with Heidi Lagares-Greenblatt Sai and Cedrek were bound together from the start of Survivor 48, and both were voted out when they finally had to go to separate Tribal Councils. It seems like each was the “obvious” choice. What did they do to result in this situation, and […]

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You blamed yourself and got voted out. This is Y Blank Lost. This is Y Blank Lost. Oh, baby, this is Y Blank Lost. Welcome back to Y Blank Lost. I'm David Bloomberg and I bet that if you had asked Mary about five episodes, there's no way she would have predicted she'd be the last rule of standing. Oh, I love this. I am wearing green in the tribe's honor.

I love it. Joining me as always, and not wearing green in Mary's honor, is my co-host, Jessica Lewis. I'm so very sorry. I didn't realize we were celebrating Mary because two vulas went home. So isn't that kind of a bit of a, you know, ha ha to them? We'll get to that, we'll get to that.

Okay, I was respecting the vulas who are no longer in the game. I'm also respecting Mary, cause she's incredible. I love her to death, so I'm very excited to enjoy her. I'm sad that we have to talk about her other two compadres who no longer are in the game, but it's going to be a long one. So everyone. Yes.

And to join us in that, we have someone else who's incredible. As video viewers can already see, we once again have a special returning guest, Survivor 44 runner up, Heidi Lagueres Greenblatt. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I hope you ask me every season because I'll come back. You two know I love you and I love talking about survivors.

So I got two for one also, and I didn't know that. I'm super excited. Yes. Yes. All right. Well, Heidi, last when last we talked last season, I believe you had gotten a fairly new job at the time. And now I saw on Instagram that you become a basketball star. That is all for charity. OK, so not your job, not your new job. My new job. By no means.

I do love basketball. I love playing. I used to be good. Not anymore. Not good anymore. But it's all for charity. I actually I'm part of a board of a charity called La Prometa in Pittsburgh. And the foundation is all about making they their their funds are for helping Hispanic kids to go to college. So that's what the funds are for. Oh, that's so great. Yeah. So it's a nonprofit and we just had it last weekend and we had a lot of survivor people and a lot of other shows. So it's a collaboration across and a lot of other shows.

So it's a collaboration across many other people from other shows. It's great. Great event. Oh, did you win the basketball game? I saw you were up against Jam Jam. Yeah, I would listen I was I kept making fun with Josh. He's a big brother guy. He won his brother and he's in the challenge.

I'm like, I have photos of me guarding you. So I just I feel like a million bucks because I was able to guard you. Here, five to Heidi versus told Josh. Right. Yes. Oh, that's amazing. It was super fun. Well, good. That's awesome. All right. Well, as for a survivor here, we had two members, as we already talked about, of the cursed Vula tribe voted out in one night.

I'm sorry to see them both go, but I also would have been sorry to see any of the others under consideration go. It's kind of poetic that Say and Cedric went out in the same episode as it seemed that they were tied together through the entirety of their games. And now they're finally being separated as Say heads home while Cedric goes to the jury. Mm hmm. Yeah, it is it is kind of poetic. But at the same time, I do feel like it would have been

interesting and I'm sure we're going to talk about this. But had they not done the split or the challenge, if Say and Cedric had found themselves together against the group, I feel like because of the ability they have to work together, the outcome to this episode would have been drastically different. I agree. I agree. Or even if they did the split, if they were both on the same side, it could have been completely different. Like perhaps them with Mary as well, right? The three of them could have, like it was a little bit of luck on that. Yes. Unfortunately survivors hate all of that. Yeah. And they talked about it in the tribal council. There's a little bit of luck aspect

to it, which by the way, I rather be more strategic and all of that. And they talked about it in the tribal council. There's a little bit a lot aspect to it, which, by the way, I rather be more strategic and all of that. And we'll talk about the rules because I do think there's aspects of the rules for both of them. But the whole setup just was against them. Right. And I hate that for them. But at the same time, that's the game where we love to watch. So. Yes. Yeah. I mean, there's obviously always luck involved in

survival, but you have to set yourself up for it. And of course, it's our job here to figure out what happened to result in this double Vula boot. And even though there are two of them will do it in the same way as every week by looking at who was voted out and comparing what they did in the game to my rules for winning that I originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since. Using all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV, interviews, social media, and secret scenes. And of course you can find the newest published version of the rules at RobHasWebSite.com slash yxlossfeed

and clicking on the link bubble for the survivor rules. Now, before we address how Say and Cedric did in terms of the rules, we always have some other things to discuss from the episode. Since we have two different players to talk about, we're going to be going long as it is. And plus, you know, there isn't as much outside of that. But I do want to focus on one particular area and the way a few different players are looking at things. And this all goes back to our favorite, the honesty, loyalty, integrity of it all.

With David and Joe pushing one way while people like Chrissy and Shaheen and Kyle push back against it, which is particularly funny because Shaheen and Kyle are supposedly in the honesty, loyalty, integrity alliance. Let's start with David, who again talked about wanting a strong five of challenge beasts who will go to the end together.

David with the- Oh, please, please don't bring the image back. Yes, I can't. Goodness. Sorry. That was a quick. You said, Dave, you know, all I can think is him just like. Yeah. Leaning back. Yes. Yes. Yes. If anyone wants to see that,

because Jessica had asked for a got milk ad, I created one using three of his poses. because Jessica had asked for a got milk ad, I created one using three of his poses. You could find that on, you know, in my YouTube shorts or TikTok or Instagram. And I might've created one as well and put it out on social media. And I might've also accidentally used the incorrect grammar when posting about what I was seeing because

I was so distracted by what was on my screen. But listen, it was, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed not just the muscle component, but also just that whole segment was just great. It was lovely. With Shaheen going, shoo, wagga, wagga. That was epic. The editing on that was amazing. It was so, so good.

So props for the producers who edit that. That was great. Yes. Fantastic. Now, speaking of David and Shaheen, like I said, David talked about wanting to go to the end with the five challenge beasts, and then he made a comment. However, Shaheen's smart. And I was instantly laughing because last week on the podcast,

Kellen made fun of him for saying stuff like that. Like, oh no, can't have a smart person, heaven forbid. You know. Right. Can't be both. Yeah. It's crazy. And then David continued by saying Shaheen is going to go along with the plan until he wants to do his own thing. And again, I say, oh, no, not his own thing.

How terrible. How could he possibly play as an individual like that? So, you know, David's fun, but his survivor strategic thinking, maybe not at the top. But every time he talks, I just I feel like he's having the greatest time ever. Oh, yeah. He is just so happy. And even when he's processing something that could be a little bit problematic, he's optimistic. And there's just something about him. I'm like, he can't be a little bit problematic. He's like optimistic and he's just there's just something about

him. I'm like, he can't be a real person. I've just decided like he just can't be. You can't look like that and sound like that and just and then he's like, and I love milk and it's just like, who are you? Like, it's just it is stunning. Absolutely stunning. Casting gold is who he is. Oh my gosh. Can I ask you both a question? Who are your top picks? So David. Really? Jessica, who is who is your winner pick?

Jessica. Oh, OK. Why don't we talk about another Vula Stephanie, maybe with someone who I was really hoping was going to go far. I know. Thank you, Heidi. Who is who is your winner pick after Stephanie? Oh, God, Thomas.

Oh, my God. I am. But oh, I don't know. Let's talk about who did we pick was going to get voted out this episode. I was right about both of my picks. Thank you very much. I was going to be saying Cedric. So I was correct in that prediction. That prediction.

But the rest of them know it's a joke. Like I've said it multiple times. Future Survivor players, you do not want me to pick you as your winner pick because that means you don't win. So I apologize. Definitely literally said don't pick me as your winner pick and you pick. I did. Well, because you know, she's got that quirky thing that seems to be working for people as of late in Survivor. And so I thought, well, you know what? And she's she owns a business.

She seemed to have her stuff together and everybody at Ponderosa was like talking about her. She was definitely making an impression. So I thought, OK, I'm going to go with my gut. Bad idea. I should have listened to my second gut, apparently, because that's funny. But I didn't. So here we are. Here we are.

How about you, David? Mine was Eva. And she, of course, is still in there. She's still in there. Do I think right now, if I had to pick, would I pick Eva to win? No, probably not. I would not pick anyone.

Well, I would not pick Eva, Joe, or David to win. I was going to say anyone from that alliance. If I if I had to pick now, I think Kyle is in a very, very good position. Yeah. Yeah. And I was worried about Kyle at the beginning. Me too. He is. He is definitely finding his way. And it's so fantastic to watch he and Camilla like. Figure out how the other one I would pick. Right.

And how did how to be a duo, but not be a duo. It's just so lovely because it's like it's like Survivor School 101. Like watch how they are pulling it off in order to actually be a duo. I mean, and it's interesting because we have like their duo that people don't know about. And then we have the most obvious duo ever that they're exchanging friendship bracelets and, you know, kind of announcing it to the whole tribe. And it's and it's like such an incredible thing to see the difference between how Eva and Joe are treating their duo versus the one that nobody knows about.

It's really I'm I'm I'm very excited about that, about Camilla and Kyle's ability. I love it. I love them together. David, who do you pick to go home last week for this? Say and I don't remember who else, probably Mitch. Oh, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't saying Cedric like I picked. So crazy. Of course, you went after me and took my say prediction. Oh, is that what it was? Oh, OK.

But for the two of you, for the two of you to be able to say say for this week, talks about her rules, which I'm sure we'll get to it. Right. So it was. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We knew it was coming. So, yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Now, getting back to Shaheen for now, from his viewpoint, he has a read on what almost

always happens when the big threats say they're they want to face each other in the end. They decide to come after each other earlier. And he thinks they'll go after each other like they normally do and leave him alone. The one thing he may be misreading in this particular group is they aren't just the big musty people, they're also the honesty, integrity, loyalty people. And so I don't think David and Joe and Eva are going to get worried and come after one another. I truly believe those three would be perfectly happy to go to the end together. I do not think

that we will see them going after each other. So in that case, he would be one of the people that they come after. And of course, little does he know that Camilla and Kyle have already started planting seeds of suspicion about you. Yeah, yeah, I think that's where the trouble comes for him from Kyle and Camilla talking. So I'm excited to see what's gonna happen. Yeah, but you know, he thinks he's in a good spot. And for now, I tend to agree. However, he did go a little far in saying not only is he in pretty good control of

the tribe, but quote but if I can maintain that control, I will win this game. I was like, well, yeah. I mean, if you say it that way, but that is such a huge if yes, if you maintain control, you'll win. And if you win every immunity challenge and you find every idol, it's like saying if I win the mega game lottery, I can fly to Fiji and play my own version of Survivor. I mean, it's true, but it's very unlikely to happen.

So, you know. Yeah. Yeah, well, and I think the problem is, is just as Heidi has indicated, his name has now been floated out there. And once that happens, that causes a shift to occur. And there's already that, you know, David, they planted the little seed with David. You might have an idol.

So if anyone has to be cut from that honesty, integrity, loyalty crew, I feel like they're going to look at Shaheen first. Yeah. I think in my opinion right now, where we stand in the game, if somehow Mitch and Mary can survive, and I know people talked about Mitch in this season, in this episode, right? But I think the big people, they're gonna come at each other

and then they can just go towards the middle. I mean, I feel like in the new era, that's the way to win it. And I feel like now Mary, being the only bullet may give her an opportunity to be right in the middle there. Right. I think Mitch only because people may have on the mess on the underestimated him. But they keep talking how he was great at the challenges.

So I don't I don't think I saw that part of the challenges. Oh, yeah. You put a ball in that man's hand and he's going to win the challenge. Oh, he's fantastic at the challenges. Yeah. Well, so that's what they were talking about. I don't see him like when you look at him physically, you're like, right. Really? So we'll see. I think winning or losing challenges is going to play a big role on who's going to be the next target.

I think. Yeah. Yeah. So then we had Chrissy's view of the situation, and I pretty much stood up and applauded for her when she said things like, if you play honest, you aren't going to win. And she talked to star about how they need to get rid of the physical threats because it'll be those people against the weaker players. And then she put it all out there during tribal council. She literally could have been saying

some oh my I scripted for her, you know, or she. Stop talking, Chrissy. Yeah. Hold on. I have a thought about that. But she noted that it's funny when people use the words honesty and loyalty and survivor because playing honest just isn't the game. And Joe tried coming back at her by saying everybody plays different. There are players who have made it to the end with a tight alliance that didn't get crazy lying and cheating and stealing. And I'm like, yeah, sure. You can go to the end with an alliance that way,

but you go to the end that way by lying to other people. Right. Right. Like Heidi, perfect example. You know, example, the Tika 3. They stuck together. They were solid. But meanwhile, they were lying like hell to people like Jamie and Lauren. 100%.

We didn't see it on the show because they were only one hour episodes instead of hour and a half then. But yeah, they had them fooled for sure. And there is no way a group of five, like Joe believes he has, is going to just walk to the end without lying to some people and stabbing them in the back.

And he didn't seem to get that. Or, more likely, it's something like we discussed last week, and I think Kellen talked about this. It's the usual rationalizing about how it's okay to do it to some people, but not to other people. Well, and I do think that that is exactly where they're going to settle,

where they've committed themselves to this five. And so this five, we have to be loyal to and honest, and we can't lie to this five. But anyone outside of that five is fair game. And I do think that that's how they're going to justify it in their mind, for sure. And loyal for loyalty, that makes sense. But don't claim you're playing an honest game if you're going to justify it in their mind for sure. And loyal for loyalty. That makes sense. But don't claim you're playing an honest game if you're lying to other people.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say I'm in full support of loyalty when it comes to this game. I do think that there's a lot to be said when you have loyalty to an individual or to a group of people.

But you also have to be mindful of the fact that yes, it's a game for million dollars. So you will lie and everyone will lie. That's what you do. Yeah. As a viewer, I loved the comments. I was like, what are you doing to your game? Cause everyone's not gonna be like, well, that means you're gonna be lying to me, right?

But as a viewer, I was like, yes, give it to me real. Because like, I mean, let's be honest just like you both said It's gonna happen if you want to win the game It's gonna happen one way or another even if you do it kind of hiding it, right? Yeah, even Joe you count it less whenever I'm gonna text you both whenever we see Joe line because he needs to get out Of some sort of hole it's gonna happen. He's got all this is great. I love that. Heidi, Joe lie counter. It's coming. It's if he really wants to win the game,

he's going to have to do it at some point, even if it's like something very small. It's going to happen. Yeah. I do appreciate, though, the approach that like at least he took with Say when say and he were sitting in that very I loved the way that the the angles were with the shot. Yes. But finally she said to him so should we should we talk about anything should we talk and he was like that's totally on you and I thought that that was really great because he was like I don't need to talk to you. Yeah you're the one who needs to talk to me so it's up I just thought that was fantastic because it was very honest.

Like, no, no, that's fine. And at that point he had the necklace, so he was saved. So for sure that was accurate. If he didn't have the necklace, that would have been a cocky comment, but he had the necklace. So he had all the rights to say something like that. I thought it was great.

I loved it. So then Chrissy responded to him saying, you know, okay, you have to make moves. Otherwise, you'll get to the end and everybody will just be Kumbaya. And the guy with the best story wins. And she doesn't want that. And I don't blame her. And so she laid it out there, you know, that she has to find a way to figure out how to get to the top.

And it's not going to be with honesty and loyalty. And as you two have both brought up and other people have brought up, should she have said all that or should she have kept quiet about her future intentions? My first thought was, well, she already knows she isn't part of the in-group. So perhaps planting this idea in the heads of others, isn't such a bad thing. And then I heard Rachel talk about it on the On Fire podcast. And I agreed with what she said, which is Chrissy isn't playing that kind of game.

So she doesn't want it to get into everyone's head as kind of the metaphor. The season. Oh, yeah, that's fair. You know, then the jury will start judging based on that, and she won't have a chance. So I do think she was right to bring it up because you know the way these things go. Once a season starts going and the meta starts getting created, you know, like, we're a society or we're a plane with passengers. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Whatever. If she had allowed just people like David and Joe and Eva

to create the metaphor the season, she loses, there's no way she wins. Yeah. Right on. Oh no, that's, yeah, that is a great point. I think that makes a whole lot of sense for sure. And she said it within the sentence of what she said. She's like, guys, we are creating a resume for the end,

right? Whatever, the whole thing that she says, she included that there and I'm in agreement. I'm in agreement with what you just said where it's like, let's break through here all the kumbaya BS. Let's be honest, right? Cause we all want to win and we all have to break through that just kumbaya in order to win. Otherwise, you know, it's going to be a very boring season and it's, it has been great so far. So I don't think we will get there, but yes. David, you haven't talked about one quick thing.

And I think we all know who already went home, but it was quite interesting for me how Cy voted for Cedric in the previous, at the end of the previous. So it's one of those where it's like maybe when we talk about the rules we can talk a little bit about that because that's part of it but it was also quite interesting to see how she's like he bought it for me so I'm voting for him which also doesn't create a whole lot of trust behind her game but anyway so we'll talk about it during her rule. Anything else you guys want to discuss before we get to the rules? Let's see.

No, Jessica, anything? I'm just thinking about milk. I mean, this one was peanut butter and jelly, and I was paying attention because in my season, I was in Franny's, Franny won that same, we did the Mergetory and Franny won so I was in the peanut butter tribe so I actually got to eat peanut butter and they gave us these sandwiches that were like the bread was like that thick. And I

was kind of curious how they were going to do it but it looked like they were actually like putting the stuff on it which I actually like way better than mine because mine was like three times bread, a little bit of peanut butter and jelly, right? So I actually appreciate this one a lot more than mine, only because they were just like, if you don't like jelly, here you go,

or if you don't like peanut butter, here you go. So I liked that one, but it was just a silly little thing because I was part of mine and I was comparing it. All right, well, there were of course some other things going on and I'll be it. All right. Well, there were, of course, some other things going on, and I'll be putting some of those on my YouTube shorts at David Bloomberg TV. But before we get to how Cedric did, we want to mention that the rules we are about to discuss come in a shorter and much more colorful version in poster form. So you can go to robhiswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed, scroll down to the poster, click on it and order it and our shipping department will get it right to you. In addition to the poster you can also get the poster

on a t-shirt or you can get the checklist on a t-shirt. So again just go to robhiswebsite.com slash yXLostFeed and order your heart out. Everything. Order it all. Yes. Well, Say and Cedric were bound together from the start of the game and both were voted out when they finally had to go to separate tribal council. How much of those votes was related to that duality? It seems like they were each the quote unquote obvious choice in their groups, but what actions did they take to cause that to happen?

What could they have done differently to prevent that situation? At RRJP, we know Survivor, and we know why Say and Cedric lost. Now the first and most important rule is the scheming plot, and I think we could easily say that both players who were voted out understood this, though of course they played it in very different ways. Say came out of the gate quickly.

She said in interviews that wasn't her intention, but when she saw her tribe compared to the others, she knew they'd be going to tribal council a lot and wanted to ensure that she wasn't one of the first people voted out. Now, even with that, she told Mike Bloom she felt like she was lying low and waited a bit, then reached out to the two women first and was shot down. And so she went to the guys. Now, I don't know what Say considers waiting a bit because she was already talking to Cedric and Justin before Kevin even made it back from the challenge for supplies. So, you know, maybe time moves more slowly out there for her. But you know, once she saw that aligning with the women wasn't going to work.

She quickly switched gears. Well, and I do give her credit for that because I think those first moments on the island when you are just landing, you're getting to know everybody and you're starting to put your things together, right? You're building, you're cleaning, you're creating the home in which is going to be the island for some time. It goes so fast. And if you are not quick on your feet and having the conversations you need to have, you might miss it. You might miss out being in that group. And I think that's why Say was like, nope, all right, you don't want to. I'm off to the next thing immediately, because I think she recognized that the game moves that fast.

Yeah, I'm a little confused though, because so she knows Cedric had voted for her and she clearly has had some sort of vengeance against him, right? She put a vote on him in the previous week, right? And then to me, if I'm in the position of Vula, you either stick together, the three of you, Cedric, Mary and her, right? Because now you need numbers similar to TICA 3. That's what they did. And they survived all the way to the end. Or if you break through completely and find another alliance. So I feel like Mary seems to be doing that and they haven't shown that much.

I maybe maybe it's just because the things that we haven't seen. But seems like Mary is making those relationships. And I don't think Sai has quite made those tight relationships yet. So from a schema plot, maybe she tried, but I think she was rubbing people possibly the wrong way in order to really get there. And that's where you kind of have to manage what you see. So I don't know. It doesn't seem like she had anything strong beyond possibly Cedric.

And she was, she was, she still put a vote on him. Well, yeah, yeah. And you know, when she did that, you know, she obviously she was, you know, she had Cedric and at the time she had the other two guys and and you know, others in the tribe saw that she was gathering power. Kevin told Mike Bloom at the time, Say is a very motivated, determined person who can form alliances.

And then, you know, Justin told Mike, she's definitely a dangerous player and I respect her game, I respect her hustle. She's out there playing incredibly hard. Now, Say continued playing hard for the whole game. When she got past the merge vote, she realized she needed to improve her situation and approach Shaheen and others to see what she could do. And he was like one of three people that she said in interviews

she got closer to at the merge, along with Camilla and Kyle. But at the split, all three of them were in the other group. Yeah. Which is why you can't only pick and choose like that. And we'll get to that in a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Now, we have nowhere to go. Well, but she was very clear as to like, I haven't talked to this person since we've merged.

And I was stunned at how many people she actually said that about. Well, and again, yeah. I think we should talk. Yeah. Yes. And she gave reasons for that in her interviews. but not good reasons, but there are reasons, you know, that will will get to, I think, in well, four and five.

But yeah, you know, we don't know what would have happened if, you know, she'd been with Shaheen, Camilla and Kyle. It could have been very different. But. That's why you can't just pick and choose who you're going to try to work with because there is this draw, there is this tribal split. We know it's happening. It always happens. This is not a surprise. You can't just hope that you get put together with the people that you want to be put together with. And that's how you balance out the luck is you put the work in to ensure that wherever

you end up, you're in, if not a good spot, at least not in a bad spot. Yeah. You have someone who's going to be looking out for you and wanting to work with you because and that was the one kind of theme that we saw with both Cedric and say they didn't have anyone with them that was going to like go to battle for them or fight for them. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's that's a very it's a very key component. And if you compare them with Kyle and Camilla from the before the previous episodes they managed through together right which is like let's throw each other kind of like under the bus we're not really

together to show them that we can play with them and they figure it out pretty quickly so I think like she was I was looking at my list of people there. She didn't have Mary or Cedric. So she didn't quite have like a second person there. So maybe that said- Mary being there wouldn't have helped her anyway. So it didn't help Cedric. I mean, she was in a tough position. I hate the format of the split, right?

But if you know the game and you have studied the new era, you know it's coming. So you've got to break through those barriers and figure it out. And unfortunately, she just didn't. Yeah. Now, switching to Cedric, his situation in the game was, of course, intertwined with Sey's. He said in interviews that as soon as they got on the island, Sey told him, they're talking

about your name. And of course, with the alliance they built that saved him. And he said in interviews that while some viewers have said she was dragging him down, he said working with her allowed him to stay in the game for as long as he did. Now, of course, there was the moment when he almost didn't keep say in the game when he voted against her twice. Would have been very different. Yes. I think it's best to wait until the fourth rule to discuss that,

because as we found out in interviews, that's really the reason there was not strategic. But once he did deeper, they were tied together for the rest of the game. And part of that connection was at the swap vote after the swap tribe vote after Bianca told him about her lost vote the last minute. We pretty much figured that he told Chrissy because she just happened to be the person he could most easily make eye contact with.

And he verified this in his interviews. And he also said something I very much appreciate. And I appreciate it for purely personal reasons, because it validated what I had said in our Why Bianca Lost podcast. In fact, he used almost the exact same words. Because he told Mike Bloom, that was very different from Justin. It's not just that you tell me you lose a vote and I'm going to vote you out. It's not that simple. That's very surface level thinking. The reality in that moment was that Justin and I had already built a relationship. We were already established. We had that trust. And in that moment, I didn't realize he doesn't have a vote.

And that breaks some of that loyalty. Bianca, we were building that. And she says it. She says, this is something we can build together. We can build that trust with you. That felt very, in the last moments, more manipulative than just this much. Okay? So let's go in the time machine and flash back to the Bianca podcast. I wish I could just hit play and replay it,

but we're not that technologically advanced. No, we're really not. So you'll just have to, you know, I'll reenact it here. Yeah. I said I said about Cedric, this was not the same situation. Justin had been Cedric's trusted ally from the beginning of the game. So Justin lying to him and it being revealed in that tribal council without time for Justin to explain hit Cedric us in a certain way.

For Bianca, this was a relatively new relationship. And she even said to him that she was trying to build some trust with him. She didn't have that trust yet he was while he was simultaneously trying to build or maintain his own alliances. You don't build trust by telling someone you've been lying to them since you first met. And telling him the way she did with mere minutes before they headed to tribal council probably made him feel like he was being used, not trusted. And then later on in the podcast, I added, it doesn't feel like honesty in that situation.

It feels manipulative. David, you're right. Yay. Incredible. Yeah, so good. Look at you. David, you're right. Incredible. Yeah, so good. Now, a good thing that's all recorded, because yes, I might not believe you. I mean, they want you to go back to the, you know, why Bianca lost podcast?

You know, maybe Cedric listened to it and he was like, oh, I like that. I'll use that for my interviews. That's possible, too. I was, I like that, I'll use that for my interviews. That's quite possible too. I was, I believe the first person he followed on. People can learn a lot from David. Yeah, I believe I was the first person he followed on Blue Sky. So, you know, Cedric, if you're listening.

Very nice. Unfortunately, he didn't have as easy a time making other allies. He said this week he had no alliances in his split group. And, you know, apparently that included Mary. That's interesting to me. Yeah. Like, why? Well, I don't understand. She said in tribal council, the person I'm voting for,

once they're gone, my alliances will be stronger. And so I think she realized removing him from the game. Would make it easier because she could act as a completely free agent. She did. Yeah, you know, she talked about scrubbing all that green off of her. Props to her. That's right. I agree with that. She was so quick to be like, hey, isn't it sad that Say is not going to make the jury? Yeah.

There was no hiding how she felt about any of that. She was very much like, I want all the green gone. So, yes. Well, and if you notice someone pointed this out, I'm sorry, I don't remember who it was. I saw it on Blue Sky. Even like in the challenge, she wasn't wearing any green. She was wearing Charity's pink top. I don't think I noticed.

I don't think I noticed that. Yeah. So she really did want to scrub all the green off of her. Yes. Charity expected someone to be wearing all of her clothes because she did leave those behind. So although I will tell you when I was on my merch and I don't know if the same happened to Jessica or not, but we will grab anything. I will leave behind like we all wore Bruce's shirt. I was at my merch and I don't know if the same happened to Jessica or not, but we would grab anything and anybody would leave behind.

We all wore Bruce's shirt. Now we were kind of honoring Bruce because he got her and he didn't even spend a night with us. But everything that anybody left, I mean, you get cold at night. Yes, grab it. Let's switch it around. So we share a lot of what people left behind and I never even thought like, I'm not going to wear green today, right? So I don't know if they even thought like, I'm not gonna wear green today. Right.

So I don't know if they even thought about it. But if they did props to her, because I didn't even notice that. Now, one thing we didn't see as much was the way say and Cedric really did work together. And this gets to something you were talking about, Heidi, because, yeah, we saw them bumping heads, we saw them voting for each other. But even during all of that, I had thought they were a tight duo and both of them confirmed it.

It was certainly a complicated relationship. But according to their interviews, they were sharing information, they were working together. As you know, say told Mike Bloom, there were so many times where Cedric told me, let's not do that. And I was like, okay, I'm working with you. So I'll take your input. Yeah. Did it come across like that though? I don't know. I don't know.

It didn't come across like that because I think one of them mentioned, I think Cedric mentioned, you know, it's a production. They highlighted all the times that we were butting heads. They didn't highlight the times that we were talking to each other and working together. Fair, fair, fair enough. I didn't even, it's an amazing thing. Yes. Poor Cedric. I mean, yeah, from a scheming and plot, he was, he came across very polite, likable,

right? Like very likable. But if you're looking for someone that like either you want strategize or maybe you want to hide behind them, right? Like very likable. But if you're looking for someone that like either you want strategize or maybe you want to hide behind them, right? Those are the sort of partners you look for. I feel like he didn't come across that way and made, I mean, clearly he lacked allies, right? So that was definitely the detriment of his game. Yeah. All right. Well, we could go to the second rule, which says not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret. And for a long time, some people have been saying that say completely blew this rule.

So now we have to answer the question as to whether that's true. Because until this point, she hadn't been voted out, which suggested it was not too much. But did it catch up with her? And in several ways? Yeah, it did. You know, first, because of Mary. While they had seemingly mended fences, you know, we were just talking about it.

It was clear from her confessionals that Mary did not feel that way at all. Right, right. And I'm sure that she made that known to others. Yes, I'm sure. You know, on her swap tribe. Except Say, because Say was like, she's the one who came up to me and was hugging me.

I didn't start that when we came together. She did a great job. Yeah, it did say that. And then to make matters worse, Say wasn't great at keeping her scheming secret, as she saw when she proposed targeting Eva, which Kyle then told Eva about. Yeah. As you know, as we discussed last week, it was too early to do that right at the merge. But more importantly, it was too public to do it in front of half the players in the game.

Eva was understandably unhappy. She told Joe and Shaheen, who've now shared in that with Mary making things worse for say by telling Joe that she would play mind games and was dangerous. And then, Say ended up with Joe and Eva in her split tribal council group, not to mention Chrissy, who had been trying to target her previously.

Exactly. Exactly. I think, I mean, it all started when they switched the tribes and she was already robbing Chrissy and, well, who was it Mitch and some of the other people in the wrong way. And yeah, that was messy. By the way, I think it's been building up for Mitch, we know that Mitch blocked her vote, right? So for her, he blocked her on social

media or something. I was like, no, no, no, the her vote. Right. I just think I know it's not a one day thing. It kind of builds up. Like if you start kind of breaking those bridges, it's very hard to build them back up, especially in this fast game. So I think, yeah, she just didn't have it with the rest of the team there for sure. And the over schemeing and kind of breaking

those bridges earlier, I think it hurt her. I mean, this is why she went home. Right. So well, and I think, too, she's I'm just going to say this. She's on the wrong season of Survivor, unfortunately, if you want to play this way, because we have such a core group of people who are like, we're going to buy the rules, honest and play with integrity and be loyal. And we want to. And it's almost like she was honest.

She was, but. Brutally so. Was she? Right. So I feel like for someone like, say, to be around a group of people, like she can't stand the integrity, loyalty. She's like, no, I don't want that. And so for her, I think she found herself amongst a group of people who she didn't

necessarily meld with because they were like, oh, that's not the kind of game we're playing and look, and she's going, she's doing way too much, too fast, too quick, and we can't have that. But then you have someone like Shaheen who's saying, maybe if she and I had started out together, we could have worked together because she wants to play this game the way I wanna play. And perhaps Shaheen is raining in because he sees what's happening.

And so I do think that there's something to be said about her just kind of saying, you know what? I don't care if that's how they wanna play. I'm still gonna play the way I want. I'm going to be authentic and true to myself. But unfortunately, they've got the numbers and they've got the momentum right now. So it's just unfortunate she didn't have any of that.

Yeah, but if you skim too much, we know that's a rule, right? Oh yeah. Like you should know not to skim and be the forefront. By the way, if I had to predict last week who was going home, I would have never set sight because she was getting such a great edit. She's on the TV all the time. Obviously, Mula was terrible, so that's partially why they kept showing that one. But I was like, this girl is going to make a fire because I know everything about her game.

And so I was surprised she didn't even make the jury, to be honest. Right? So that's why they had to wring everything out of her that they could, you know? Yeah, exactly. She was great TV. And to the point that she was aggressive and she was one of the few being truly on your face, it's fun to watch as a viewer, fun to watch, but it breaks rule number two, right? So there's a lot about rule number two that she broke there.

Well, yeah. And another part is that she was perceived as causing chaos. Exactly. Now, this is an interesting situation because Sey contradicted herself in some interviews on this topic. For example, in talking to Mike Bloom, she said, I was the wild card. I was the chaos maker. I was the one who they couldn't predict what she was going to do. And it's true. Yeah. And later in the same interview, she said, I didn't think I was that chaotic. I was a little taken aback by how much they thought I was chaotic because I really did think I was reserved. I truly

did. No way. Who did she say that to my bloom? Yeah, I mean, the same literally the same interview. I don't know how it can be both. I don't know how you could say both things in the same interview. Maybe that shows know how it can be both. I don't know how you could say both things in the same interview. Maybe that shows her chaotic behavior. I don't know. I mean, at first I thought maybe she was talking about the perception of others, but then she added that it's true part. And then she said similar things in other interviews as well. So she was definitely seen as chaotic. And a lot of that was, I think, deserved. People who speak openly about

who they're going to target. Yeah. Are perceived that way, because everyone gets in a tizzy. People like say, who aren't tightly aligned in a group can be thought of as chaotic, because as she said, the others couldn't predict what she would do. So yes, I do think that the others were justified in worrying about this with her. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think that makes sense. Chaotic wildcard that to me it screams from this season screams sigh. So it's interesting that she described herself that way. And then

all of a sudden she was on that. Tells me she is chaotic probably. Right. So now, now moving to Cedric, he was the opposite. He was the calming force. He was more of a rock solid kind of guy who people could count on or at least they would have counted on him if they had alliances with him. So, you know, this rule wasn't as big at all an issue with him. The one place we thought earlier that this could have been a problem was when he decided to vote out, say, after writing her name down twice, thus making it clear where he originally stood. However, as we've discussed already, they've moved more or less

past that. And, you know, we'll discuss in a little while why the choice he made had nothing to do with strategic reasons. Right, right. I have comments about this one for him because as a person who works in a very professional environment, I work in a very different field, but I work with a lot of people. And I have kids and I have a family, right? And it's one of those where you kind of want to be wild and just have fun and be in beside kind of chaotic, right? But you do know you have a life behind you. Oh, yeah. So I question if Cedric in

the back of his head was very, it came across very polite because he understands that he's gonna have patience. He's gonna have a family waiting for him. So it's, and it really depends on your kind of profession because if you have a job that you're just the owner or entrepreneur and you go wild. But if you work in a professional scenario where you have people, you have to give them that view of you.

I feel like maybe partially because of his background, he cannot be crazy. And maybe the, I don't know, maybe that's the scheming on plot one and versus two, because maybe he didn't scheme enough. But I always wonder if the people that have these professional jobs back home kind of affects who they are in the game. 100%. I know, I know. Yes, 100%. Yeah. Unfortunately, there are people that I shouldn't even say unfortunately, fortunately for them, there are people that can go on Survivor and, and be, you know, wild and crazy

and it's and it's fine. It has no negative effect on them. And perhaps it actually elevates their career because of what they're striving to do. But there are other people who find themselves in much different situations like myself. And you go onto the show because you want to win a million dollars,

but you also realize I have a career and I have a family and I have life back home that I'm not going to destroy for the purpose of a TV show, but I still want to win a million dollars. So you have to find that balance with whatever works for you. Some people are able to pull it off and it works and some people just aren't, but you definitely need to think about that before you go out there. So if you see Jessica or Heidi going back we're going to be the wild people

because now everyone knows we were the wild crazy. We will be if you bring us back, right? Just to show you a completely different TV. The producers might be like thank God, Jessica, jeez. You frustrated us so much the first time.

Thank you. So now you're going to support the survivor 50 rumors. Oh my gosh. Back to you, David. All right. Well, the third rule tells players to be flexible. Heidi, how do you think say did in this rule? Oh, say, oh gosh, maybe it talks about the wild card and, um, and the chaos.

Right. I, I do think though, between her and Cedric, she was way better at the flexibility though, cause she really tried. We saw her trying to talk to Shaheen. We saw her trying to talk to Shaheen. We saw her trying to talk to Joe. The scene that we were talking earlier where Joe is like, well, you talk to me, right? So I do think that she tried.

But I think a combination of three with four, so I'm jumping the gun, but a little bit of three and four there didn't help her case. Because when you're really trying to be flexible, instead of you giving them yourself 100%, you kind of hide a little bit and let them be themselves and hear them out. So maybe she was trying to be flexible without understanding that when you try to be flexible, you let them talk, you hear them out rather than you telling them what to do.

So I think there's a, I mean, she, I saw aspects of her really trying. I think the other aspects of who she was in the game didn't help her to get the flexibility that she needed. Yeah, I feel almost like her flexibility stemmed from, she was like, oh crap, I gotta do something. I'm in a bad way, right? So it's not, I'm gonna be flexible because that's how I wanna treat my game.

It's, I have to do something because of what's happening right now, which is why I think it's interesting when she was having those conversations. It was, yeah, I haven't talked to Joe yet, so I probably should talk to Joe. Yeah, I need to do this. And so I do feel like there there was a there was a willingness in a way because we did see at the beginning, she went to the to the two in Mary and Stephanie and said, hey said hey will will you work with me and they were like maybe we're like still figuring it out she immediately be aligned it to someone

else so I think there was flexibility but I really think it was based on like the need of what was happening in that moment for her. I agree with that I agree with that. Yeah I think that you, usually once she decided on going down a path, she went with it. But there were times I mean, you know, we, we saw she decided she wanted to work with Mary after seeing how Mary had reacted to the situation in that Tide tribal council. You know, but on the other hand, another part of this rule talks about players needing to have their finger on

the pulse of the tribe, and, miss that a couple of times. She didn't realize Cedric would try to turn against her in the tie vote. She of course didn't know about Bianca's lost vote or the plan to get rid of, say, in the swap tribe. And most importantly, she didn't realize how close the vote was going to be when charity was sent out. She almost voted herself out by sent throwing her, you know, petty vote just for giggles at Cedric.

You know, it was a lot closer than she expected. Yeah, yeah. One aspect though, I don't know if it really talks about flexibility, but when Pizza Man got, went home, that was the whole deal where they had Cedric had to essentially send someone home. She adapted at that moment. She adapted really quickly with her speech because part of why I think Pizza Man went home was because he didn't fight for himself and she went at it.

So she did adjust at the time, even though it was a weird one for her because she could have gone home. And I know again, maybe it talks about what Jessica saying, the timing is horrible because she's doing it a little too late. But at that moment, her flexibility about switching her speech to convince Cedric was right on point. And I truly think she made it this far just from that tribal council. She convinced Cedric for keeping her, right? So I think she had some, a few good things going for her. We're gonna get to a few of the other ones. Okay, yeah.

So then Heidi, what did you think of Cedric for this role? Okay, so Cedric, I do think, compared to even Sai, right? He was less flexible. When you don't have more alliances, listen, when you go to Survivor, you become friends with everyone, you try to align with everyone,

even if they're not your number one. So I didn't see that. It looked like he didn't really have much to pull from, right? So I think that was a big one. Personally, that was my number one. I wrote it down. That number three was the one that really, really sent him home.

If he would have made those alliances or relationships or more connections as soon as he could with anybody, right, earlier, it would have helped him in this situation. And I think he just didn't have it. He didn't have the flexibility to make those alliances that he needed when he needed them most. So I think this one sent him home. See, I would think that, I thought that he was fairly flexible at certain points. Like he had good relationships with Chrissy and Mitch

in the Swap Tribe. And enough so that he was able to make the quick move against Bianca and it worked. Yeah. It wasn't enough. They were on the other side, right? Well, yeah, but I'm just saying in the swap tribe, yeah. He did talk in interviews about trying to make inroads at the merge, but we come back

to the same situation that we talked about with Say, which is he didn't have enough of them to cover however the random draw would hit. And the people that he made relationships with were in the other side. Or they were gone. Right. And so, so yeah, it was, you know, it does come back, like you said, Heidi, to he didn't make enough of those. I think he was more methodical in his alliances. And so Mary's there so we can compare him with Mary, right?

Nobody said Mary that we saw on the show. So it was interesting to see, like, they all said Cedric from the get-go. Yeah, and I do think the fact that Mary is there is an interesting component to Cedric's game, because I'm curious how much of the Vula existence has been explained to the now merged tribe by Mary, almost putting Cedric and Se in a worse position

because Mary's like, let me tell you what it was like while we were on Vula, because that's going to win her more points with creating bonds with these new players and showing like, I wanna work with you so I'm going to give you some information. But then at the same time, it's working directly against Cedric when they find themselves in

this situation where Mary is there. Mary's not going to bat for him because Mary has already kind of thrown him to the wolves and said, hey, you can have Cedric because I saw all the stuff that happened in Vula and I want nothing to do with that. So I am curious how much of that affected his ability to really formulate those bonds like he needed to because Mary was already kind of poisoning the pool. I think that's so true. And her saying what she said at the tribal council, which I think David mentioned earlier, and her voting for him speaks exactly what you're saying. Like

we didn't see or hear that, but I truly think that's possibly what could have been happening in the background. And that's why they never thought of her, right? So to be flexible, maybe Cedric needed to do something similar, right? Like you just got to find your path forward, whether you have numbers or not, and you cannot wait until you're in this situation and then you don't have time to make those alliances. So yeah, I think he lacked a lot of the flexibility there, unfortunately, for him.

All right. Well, the fourth rule tells players not to let their emotions control them. Jessica, what do you think about today for this one? Well, I mean, really, come on. I do think that say didn't she describe herself as a little chaotic, right? Even though then she said she wasn't. So, but I have to give her a little bit of credit because she, she said that this was a toned down version of herself. This is what she expressed in the interviews. And so if this is a toned down version of Say, boy, I would have loved to see

what a non toned down version of Say would have been. So maybe she was really good at keeping her emotions in check because she wasn't getting angry. And I also feel like as the show progressed, not that there was a defeatist attitude that she had, not at all, but that's almost what it felt like. She came, she started the game like on fire and was like, I'm going to do everything all at once all the time immediately. And then by the time she'd been voted for it, every tribal council, and she's like, this is old hat at this point, like everyone's so obsessed with me. But it was almost like she didn't even it didn't even matter anymore. She was like, whatever, like, I don't need to talk to these people they could it's I'm the easy vote

what I put my name down who cares so I just she was such a fascinating mix of emotions but the way that she presented them I just really I thought was fantastic because she could have gotten frustrated and and vocal with some of the things that were going on. Like those moments when she found out that, oh, Shaheen, I know you wrote my name down and I appreciate you telling me like, thank you. So she respected the honesty and she didn't get upset. She's like, this is a game. I get that. I understand it.

So it was it was a very interesting dynamic for her to present. And also the fact that she did vote for Cedric, I think that was, you know, that was a little, that was a little, what did she say? I gotta get my licks in, right? I gotta get my licks back. So, you know, that was an emotional thing as well. So clearly that affected her in an emotional way. So I do think, you know, my answer is, did she, she must have, because if that's a toned down version, then she had to have been keeping her emotions in check. And she didn't blow up when she necessarily could have

or show that things were affecting her the way that you would expect someone who's been voted for every tribal council to do. Yeah, I mean, I think it was pretty clear she played an emotions-based game, both in the way she reacted to people and the way she made her plans. I mean, you know, like you mentioned how she reacted to people who voted for her. But earlier in the game, she had said, I want her to think that I don't hold grudges, but

I hold grudges. She was the role that cost her the. Yeah. She was the roller coaster. They own that. But yeah. And then also, she said, you know, she she told Mike Bloom, I'm not into the niceties. I'm very much if I vibe with you, I'm locked in. And so I didn't want to do that with everyone on the island and then turn around and vote you off after I just heard about your mom

who you love so dearly. How can you do that? So basically, to prevent herself from having to deal with emotions of voting out someone she really liked, she avoided getting close to people and getting to know some people well enough to have to worry about it.

Which of course is not a great strategy because that means they don't get to know you well enough to let you be around to get you around. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know she said that. And that is the complete opposite of what I, the way I describe survivor. Cause to me, it's survivor is a game where you make your best friends and then you backstab them. Right? Because that is the game you're signing up to do. I feel like, I mean, you gotta be friends with everyone. At the end of the day, and I didn't win,

I got one vote, right? But at the end of the day, they have to vote for you to win. So it's one of those where you cannot not get to know them because they will never vote for you to win even if you had a great game. There's gotta be some chemistry there and some shape or way. So to me on the emotions portion, she was a rollercoaster.

I think she had moments where just like Jessica says, she you can see she control a lot of what was happening. But then she had other moments that it's hard to control it. We saw it with Mary one day. She loves Mary the other day. She hated Mary. But I like how she described that like, we're not on the same. We're not playing the same game, but we respect each other.

Those comments to me, I got to give her a little grace on the emotions because I truly think that she was trying. And I also have to give her grace because survivor is a freaking roller coaster for anybody, especially when you don't eat. So I think this one was all over the place for me for her. There were moments where she did well and there were moments where it's like, ah, you lost it there. So but what you said that she she told my balloon, right?

Maybe talks about her game. And I think that that's part of where she was faulting. Right. Like you be friends with every you don't like it. Guess what? Find ways to like them. Right. There's always goodness in people. I feel maybe that's where she Fake it till you make it. Exactly. Exactly. All right. So Jessica, how did Cedric do here?

Well, we know that Cedric made one of the biggest decisions in his entire game based solely on an emotional component. And so I feel like we have to say he did badly then because you shouldn't be in a moment such as essentially Cedric, you get to pick who goes home. Like it's all up to you. Like this is everything rides on Cedric. And then he decides to keep say because he thought in that moment he was going to break her emotionally

and that there was more happening, which is a beautiful thing for him to be feeling outside of the game of Survivor. So I have to give him credit, I have to give him props, I have all the feels because it was an emotional decision that he made and he was very honest about that. He's talked to say about that. But unfortunately, decisions like that

can end up hurting you in the long run, because you're not making the decision based on a game position and what's going to get you further in the game. He then locked himself in with Se, which we've talked about. Like that moment on, that was it. They were locked in. The two of them had to work together. And they love each other. Like they get along fantastically well. They are each other's favorite person, which is beautiful, but neither one is still in the game. So there's something to be said about the decisions being made when they were made and how they were made and why they were made. So I think he failed greatly in that regard. Yeah. And for anyone who

doesn't know what Jessica was talking about, this came out in the interviews where Justinedric, you know, Justin in his interviews had said, oh, there was something more going there that they didn't show. And Cedric explained the things that Jessica was just talking about, you know, of, you know, because I had thought, oh, it was because they were they were already close, you know, she reminded him of his daughter. She called him dad, but it went even beyond that. Like, you know, like you just said, Jessica, that he really felt this would break her as a person. And so I don't really think it was the dad in Cedric that came

out. It was it was almost the doctor in him that came out, you know, and it was just his own humanity in that moment. Right. Yeah. That's sad though. I like, cause I do think, like, I think he was trying to keep his composure and I talked about, you know, how you don't want to affect your real life by the game. But at that moment where when he kept say totally emotional, totally killed his game by the way,

cause I think it was one of those I'm locked with say, I keep calling her Cy or say, Cy will be in Spanish for the record, it's the same person. So I do think that one there hurt him because then he had to vote for her, right? And then she's like backstabbing him, putting his name there. So it just, it was messy. And it was all due to the whole emotion decision that he made in that

one tribal council, keeping her right. So I think while he looked like he was keeping his emotions in control for the rest of the game, that one moment made the situation for him in the future, especially in the tribe, in the merge of the tribes. Yeah, I would compare it to what I said about the Joe and Eva situation, which Cedric also somewhat compared it to. It's very meaningful from a human standpoint, but it is not ideal from the standpoint of Survivor as a game. Yeah.

And, you know, yes, Cedric had reasons that went beyond the game, but analyzing the game aspect is what we do here. Right. You know, and so that's all we can look at it as when we, I mean, we can recognize the humanity of it, but it still comes down to, from a game standpoint, maybe not the greatest decision. Well, I mean, when whenever Joe or Eva, especially if Joe goes home at some point, this is going to be a big one to talk about Joe, right?

Because he's claiming, I mean, declaring I'm a pair with Eva. So similar situation with Cedric and say, right, it was clear, especially if Mary told everyone else what had just happened, it's clear they're a duo there, so let's break them up. And then it's based on an emotional decision for sure. Yeah. I mean, when presuming Joe eventually does get voted out. You know, I mean, he's already it's possible he's already told us part of why, because he said I will lose this game if it means protecting Eva. So, you know, we'll have to see if that actually comes true. If that's a foretelling of things to come.

I was very much convinced that he was going to let her win immunity when they were. Yeah, I was totally when he was telling her, like, you hang in there like, stay there. I was like, is he going to do what I think he's going to do? And then he didn't. So I was proud of him. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, David, whenever if he gets voted off, you got to get the clip ready and just show it here

so you can show everyone how you stepped out the technology behind the production here. All right, well, we could go to the fifth rule, which reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game. So I just want to return to something I just mentioned in the last rule, which was that, say, told Mike Bloom, I'm not into niceties. I'm very much if I vibe with you, I'm locked in. And then she also said in that quote, which I had not mentioned before, that was hard for me to realize.

It's like you guys are smiling in each other's faces and then cut each other's throats. That's weird to me. At least when I cut your throat, you're like, Oh, well, you never liked me. Now we just discussed in terms of how it impacted her from the emotional standpoint and that she didn't want to get close to people and vote them out. But from the standpoint of this rule, there is also the social game aspect that, well,

she might get close to people. Right. That's the whole point of the social game. It is a huge issue when it comes to this rule. Yeah. This rule wins or kills your game. Go ahead, Jessica. Sorry.

Oh, I do think that Say could have thrived here because she has the type of personality that is just captivating because she has such a presence about her. And so if it was, if I do think that if she was, if she was with other people who had stronger personalities like she does, I think that she would have been doing better in this regard because it's almost like you can feed off of each other. I don't think she was finding anyone to feed off with that same energy. And unfortunately, keeping yourself then distant from the people that you don't necessarily jive with doesn't help you. And so she needed to find that like happy medium where you got to find a little bit like we said before, fake it or fake it till you make it, right? Find something about this person that you can connect with

or find endearing or at least talk to them about. Because the fact that you are acknowledging you haven't had conversations with particular people until you absolutely have to, these, no one is going to then be coming to your defense or looking to save you if they have no connection with you. The mere fact that she couldn't even give you a word about Eva when she was doing the Gordon Holmes like word association, I thought was fascinating because she's like, well, I didn't even really talk to Eva. So I can't even give you a word

to tell you anything about her. Again, just goes to show that she limited herself greatly by just not even trying to create relationships with people. Ah, I agree. Fake it till you make it. Maybe this rule should have been also called that because seriously- Sorry, the posters are made, we can't change that.

No, I am in agreement. I mean, this game is very interesting because especially in the new era and even before the new era, you are going to get people with that. They look different. They have different cultures. They have different ages. And you may or may not connect with everyone. But guess what?

You better learn a little bit about them. What makes them happy? What makes them happy what makes them kind of like what do they like in general right this one truly for anyone listening if you're gonna play survivor in the future this one to me is probably one of the most important if not they most on the top of the list of all the rules because this one is what makes you win the game at the end again it's not just making friends and backstabbing them

and taking them out before you go out. It's also building a good relationship with them, showing them that you could play a strategic game behind it and then they're gonna vote for you. If they don't like you, very unlikely they will vote for you, okay? So even if you played a crazy great game, if you get a jury that is not into just strategy, guess what? The social is what's going to win you

or lose the game. So I think she was, she had to really try to connect bigger more with other people, right? A heck of a lot more, especially now that I hear what she said to my, my blue foot. Um, yeah, this was a tough one for me, for her at least. Yeah. And what you say is something we talk about here, especially still at this point in the game. If the social game is not in and of itself going to win the game for you, you can't just come in there, be happy, go lucky and be nice and get to the end and win. But it can lose the game for you. A hundred percent.

And it can help you win at the end if you do all the other things. Yeah. So but at this stage in the game, it's more something that is going to lose the game for you if you don't do it well. And, you know, say acknowledged in the game, I've been playing a game where a lot of people don't like me. And then she said before tribal council, I have butted heads with a lot of people. In her eyes, she was just being herself. And she told Mike Bloom, I just didn't think that

being me was too much, because that is who I am in real life. What you see is what you get. I'm not going to change because you can't handle it. And she also told him, do I wish I had scaled it back and like been more reserved and maybe not been so much say? No, I have no regrets for being myself. I was on the island 100% me and what you see is what you get. And I'm so grateful. I love every moment of the game that I played. I have no regrets except for not making the jury. But that's the thing. She can be happy with most of how things happen. And many of us enjoyed the entertainment she gave us in

doing so. But by acknowledging that she would not change for the purposes of the game, she is saying, I flat out went against this rule. Yeah. She was not willing to pretend to be nice. Yeah. Right. I don't think you have to change yourself really, at least to give people a chance.

I mean, maybe, I don't know, but I- I mean, it depends. You have to change yourself- Heidi's just a nice person. Yeah. I mean, maybe, I don't know. But I mean, it depends. You have to change yourself. Heidi's just a nice person. Yeah. I mean, all it takes is just listening to someone else. You don't have to like give them or do anything to them, but you listening at sometimes and then there's always a little common thread there. I don't know. I think this one. Listen, if you have three at the end of the game, you have three great players with different games and good

strategies. All three of them made it there for different reasons or whatever strategic reasons, right? You may pick your friend, right? Like you, I don't have anything else. I'm going for my friend. So yeah, in some seasons, a couple seasons ago, you you might purposely go against your friend for. Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes.

I think everybody does. Yes. Yeah, now a good example to compare against, say, for someone who was willing to pretend is Mary, because we talked about this earlier. Say mentioned in her interviews that she thought everything was good between them, which we saw on the show. So she was surprised to find out that it wasn't. But that's the thing that it just seems never sunk in with Say. You don't have

to air all your truths to each other when you're out there. Despite what some this season say, Survivor is not a game of full honesty. And it made complete sense for Mary to hide her true feelings for the good of her game. Yes, run up and hug Say. Tell her you're so happy to see her again. And then when Say isn't around, be like, oh my God, that woman's a snake.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Make it till you make it, baby. Yeah, always make it till you make it. Maybe it's make it till you make it. Even after talking about all of this, I still think people who have said, say, had no social game are wrong because part of the reason that Cedric was so loyal to her was their social relationship. As we discussed, that happened both before and after the Thai vote tribal council.

Like even before that one, he told her to play her idol. Yes, right. Even Mary talked about how she could tell when Say was looking at her with game eyes compared to real life eyes, which are quite soft and trusting. And on the swap tribe, Say connected with Bianca and wanted to work with her. compared to real life eyes, which are quote, quite soft and trusting. And on the swap tribe, Say connected with Bianca and wanted to work with her.

The problem wasn't that Say didn't have a social game. It was that she chose to only use it sparingly because of the emotional attachment we talked about. She made a choice that she was going to be herself. And to once again bring up game versus reality, that is great from a human standpoint. You want to be yourself, be yourself. You know, I think that's usually very good, but not so much in a strategic social game. Because not only did it limit the number of people she could work with in her own tribes,

but even for the future, because other people saw glimpses of, say, speaking her mind and acting in certain ways. And as Bianca had told Mike Bloom, while she loved saying thought she was hilarious and fantastic, she also noted a lot of people just didn't want to work with her. My whole tribe was just like, we're not going to work with her when we get to the merge. So that cut off a lot of avenues when she needed the most. Yeah. And, you know, add to that her own reluctance to get to know people because she would potentially be voting them off. And it makes things even more difficult, especially since as Shaheen noted in this episode, if you aren't close to Say

and you try to pretend otherwise, she viewed it as fake. It was part of her blunt honesty that she should have put aside for the sake of the game. Yeah, agreed. Say if you're listening, I want to be a friend. I like you. Yeah, maybe maybe we'll be in a season together someday. Yeah, right. That was real talk. That wasn't just for the game. That wasn't. In rumors again. Oh, no. No, no, I was kidding. But yeah. Oh, well, a little sad.

Yeah. Now, moving on to Cedric, we have a much different situation as we have through most of the podcast. Though somewhat similar and I feel like Cedric was also being himself out there. The biggest difference is in what that meant. He is used to dealing with a wide variety of people, many of whom are in difficult situations, could be very upset. And he needs to be that calm port in the storm. Which is also a role he played on Survivor. Say told Mike Bloom, I'm very grateful for the way we interacted with one another and

how patient he was with me. He's very even keeled, he's very patient, and he's very kind, very grateful. That's sweet. Yes. And as Cedric himself told Mike, I suspect that my strength, which is what I knew it would be, would be the ability to have conversations with people about things that matter, whether it be about their families, whether it be about their lives or jobs or whatever it may be.

That's why people were comfortable coming to me telling me information that perhaps nobody else knew. And that got me further in the game and that got me the ammunition to have the power to pull triggers when they needed to be pulled. Yeah. And I think that goes back to his profession. So this is where you do see someone's profession affecting how they play this game because he's a doctor.

He's someone who has to have conversations with every patient that comes in his door and has to make this person feel comfortable. So that is definitely a gift that Cedric brought into this game and was able to formulate bonds with so many people, except maybe Mary, which I still think is fascinating. It ended up not being like a thing. But unfortunately, everyone that he really did bond with was out the door. And so, you know, yeah, when you're on a when you're on a bad tribe and everyone gets voted

out. Yeah, your ability to form those bonds does dwindle. And I think he was trying but by the time he got to where he was in the game, it's almost like at that point, they've already created their own bonds with each other. And when Mary isn't even there to like back him, it definitely put him in a tough spot. Yeah, I was going to say something very similar. I think he probably made relationships with the Vula tribe and they kept going home one by one, right? And then when you got to the tribe, then you have to deal with the strong guys that are

just like with each other. And Camila is somehow kind of in it with Kyle because Kyle is one of the strong guys, which I, by the way, I love what they have going. But I think Cedric didn't have quite an in with the rest of the people, right? So that's a tough one. That's a really tough one because I do think he probably had really authentic relationships with the Bula tribe. But maybe it was you're in the merge. There's already like clicks.

So breaking through the clicks to try to make your own clicks. It's a hard thing to do, especially when you are a bit more mature, a bit more seasoned in age. You've got to have some sort of chemistry there to kind of click with the young crew. I'm not going to lie, I went through that. And it's doable, you absolutely can. But there's challenges within that. And you know, maybe that's that was, I mean, I think he was a good one on this. Unfortunately, this one in combination with some of the other ones hurt him because he

didn't have those connections and relationships, the social aspect after the merge, right? Even after the swap, I don't think he got there with anybody. Right. Yeah, I do want to give him credit. He did make some good relationships at other points, you know, like even beyond his starting tribe, we saw him connect with Mitch as, you know, he talked about growing up. We know he was good with Chrissy because she said, I trust Cedric. He's not the type of guy who would look you in the eye and lie.

And, you know, followed up on that by voting Bianca both based almost solely on just a few words from him at the last minute. And even even Bianca said in interviews that she had a very good relationship with him, including conversations about their lives and intense bonding moments. And we saw a star connect deeply to him. Yes. Such that, you know, she was able to, in his words, really get him and give him that pep talk that we saw. So he did make connections. able to, in his words, really get him and give him that pep talk that we saw.

So he did make connections. It's just that I think that he made very good connections with a few people. Yeah, because you mentioned Star. She was on the other tribe. You mentioned Mitch. Mention Mitch, other tribe. And you mentioned Chrissy, other tribe. So to the point of he created a good bond with them,

they were unfortunately on the other side. So let's stop doing these split things, shall we? Right, right? It was pure luck there, and he just fell over. Yeah, but like we said, for say, you know, I mean, yes, it's luck said, for say, you know, I mean, it's yes, it's luck, but we, you know, we know luck can happen. And so you have to you have to prepare. You can't just make bonds with three people and hope that they form a majority with you.

You have to spread the love. Agree. Agree. All right. Well, the six is so good. Yes. The sixth rule warns right, well, the sixth rule. Oh, we're doing so good. Yes. The sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat.

Heidi, how did Se do here? Don't be too much. Ah. Ah. Not just don't be too much. We know she was too much. Too much of a threat. Yeah.

Don't be too much of a threat. I don't know if she was being seen as a threat per se, but I do think maybe maybe I just got to like cut the thread because I think she was being too much in general, which kind of like, okay, she's chaotic, right? She is a wild card and I'm using her words in the interview that you mentioned. I mean, how do you play with someone like that when they're a threat to your game? Because they're chaotic, right? So it's a little bit hard to trust anybody who's a wild card because you don't know what's going to happen, what they're going to do.

So it's okay. I think it's a game that people will change their mind and you have to adapt and all of that. But being too much of a wild card there is a threat for any of them. So it's very hard for anybody to trust her. Yeah. Other than Cedric and even Cedric knew she was a bit of a wild card, right? So I think her game, perhaps it wasn't seen like I'm purely a threat,

although she did say in a confessional that she thought people thought she was a threat, right? Yeah, in her final words. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think her threat. I mean, they probably saw her more the whole wild card chaotic portion was more of a threat for their game rather than her being a threat at the game. Right. So that's what I think about that one. I do think too.

She was targeting Eva early on as well. And I think that knowing where the majority lies and that Eva is part of it, then that can become a threat to the group that Eva is with. And so certainly then if they want to stay together as a, as a strong five, they're going to protect Eva and they're going to look at the people who are potentially targeting them. And so that can also cause you to be seen as a threat because you are a threat to someone else's game. Right on.

And if she could get traction and she could get a lot of other people behind her and wanting to go after Eva, then that strong five loses their ability to kind of run the game, which they feel like they're doing right now. So yeah, I think that that's another component of her potential threat level in this game. Yeah, yeah, Heidi, I was gonna say, much the same that you were, that it's the chaos element that we discussed. The people didn't know where she was coming from or where she was going.

And she told Mike Bloom, the people I normally surround myself with, they get me. I'm never told I'm too much. I'm never told to do this, don't do that. So maybe I didn't understand that it was too much for them. I guess I didn't realize that looking for the idol and doing all those things was putting an even bigger target on my back because I thought me being honest was good enough. And I think there's a lot of truth packed into those few sentences. Yes, people she normally surrounds herself with, they get her.

But Survivor is about being outside your usual comfort zone and not being with the people who normally surround you. In real life, you can ditch the people who don't get you and find ones who do. In Survivor, that just often isn't an option. Yeah, say found Cedric. He was one person. Even Bianca might've gotten her, but Bianca was weaving her own plan to stick around and that includes throwing say under the bus. So no, being honest isn't good enough.

And yes, doing the various things that we saw did put a target on her back. It reminds me of when Tony Flachos came back to play a second time and immediately made it clear he was going idol hunting and ran out into the jungle. Yes. His honesty there did not make people feel better about him. It made them want him gone quickly. Yeah. And he learned that lesson when he came back for winners at war. He made himself into less of a threat for that. Yeah. Yeah.

Agreement. Yeah, we all agree. Oh, for Cedric, Jessica, do you think he was seen as a threat? Well, I think Cedric is a bit of a mixed bag here because I think that his composure and his ability to form those close relationships that we talked about is something that can be scary in a game like Survivor because if you are someone who is on the receiving end of being in a relationship like that and knowing that Cedric is this close to me, you start to wonder, well, how close is Cedric to other people if that's even something that you need to be mindful of. So I don't think that Cedric was viewed in the same, well, he wasn't viewed in the same way as Se was when it came to this type of threat, because he wasn't, he didn't seem

to be causing anyone else issues with their own game. I think his threat would have just stemmed solely from who he is as a person and the way that he presents himself to the people that he was playing the game with. But in this group of people, I don't think that that rises to a level of being a threat to those that are playing the game with him because we do again, it goes back to the five people that are the honest, integrity, loyalty crew that are wanting that to be the theme of this particular season. And so they're not worried about a Cedric, but I think Cedric could have been a very big threat just because of the person who he is. But unfortunately, again, this season, it's not a concern. Yeah, he's likable.

So that was part of the threat, possibly if he made it farther, right? Just because he's likable. I think he also could have been a threat because he's locked in with Say. And it was, I mean, just like Joe and Ivar are a duo, they could also be seen as a duo. I don't think he went home because they saw him as a threat though.

I think it was the unfortunate of the other rules that he didn't follow. This one, I don't think he was really, I don't think he went home purely on this one. I think he could have been there if he was strong, would say much later in the game. But I don't think we got that far and everyone wants to say, go home. So that almost kind of killed a little bit of his game as well. So, yeah, this one for me wasn't a big one for him because I don't think they saw him as a threat.

They were just going with their stronger relationships. And that's why they kept the rest. Yeah, the one thing pertaining to him being a threat that I, you know, saw was David saying that Cedric wanted so desperately to be a number that he was willing to do anything and that made him dangerous. I really think though that was more piling on, like they've already decided to vote him out. Yeah. They're looking for reasons rather than this was a reason that caused them to make that decision. Right, right. Yeah. Now, it is funny because I have seen some not very survivor savvy people comment on

at least one of my videos that Cedric was voted out because he sucked in challenges. And I mean, I didn't bother to argue with them because I might as well talk to a wall when you're dealing with some of these people on, you know, when commenting on the videos. But that's one of the exact reasons he was not a threat at this point in the game. Right. Right. Nobody worried about him winning a challenge. Heidi, do the pose again. That was not Cedric.

That was not Cedric. That was not Cedric. That was David. Yeah. Cedric was... Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I gave you the pose. Do it again. I did David.

There you go. I know. I love the pose. All right. Well I did. I did, David. There you go. I know I love the pose. All right. Well, the seventh rule covers idols and advantages and game mechanics. And we knew from Say's pregame interview that she wanted to grab everything she could. And we saw that from the start with her immediately getting the beware advantage and leveraging it to help her solidify that initial alliance. Even beyond that, we saw her wisely wait to see the result of Stephanie playing her shot

in the dark before doing anything with her idol in the first tribal council. And then later using it when Cedric told her that she needed to. Now, it turned out that he and Justin switched their votes, so, you know, she would have been safe anyway. But in a situation like that, when the situation when when the outcome is unclear to you, better to use it and ensure you're safe as we and she certainly saw in Survivor 46. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

And also, we can't forget about her running through the like the woods with charity, like popping out of nowhere and like grabbing that advantage. That was amazing. That was awesome. Incredible moment. So she's clearly she's she's there to play. She was there. Yes. Yes, exactly. And, you know, I've seen it pointed out that by getting that advantage, she may have prevented herself from going out one vote sooner, because if she hadn't

been in that merge feast her name undoubtedly would have come up there and they probably would have all quickly agreed on it. I agree with that and the last week she could have been the one going home and that advantage very possibly you know gave her gained her another episode so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now when it came to her last tribal council, say told Dalton Ross that she knew she was on the bottom. So she was planning to use her shot in the dark. One problem was that she told Mitch, right? Because although she knew he had that voting block, she didn't think he'd bother using it on her. And I'm just like, say, yeah, of course,

he's going to use it because everyone knew he had it, which made it threatening. So getting rid of it reduces that. And if her shot hit, he was the next target. So of course he's going to prevent that from happening. That was a misread on her part. That was a good news by Mitch, by the way. I don't mind that. I do have a question though about the block of vote. When does he actually block her vote?

Because it didn't happen during the tribal council. All of a sudden she walked. Because I was like, oh, when Jeff said, you know, it's time to vote, he didn't say, oh, by the way, I'm going to block Say's vote. So I'm very curious about that because he had to have done it in order for her not to play a shot in the dark, which means it had to have happened before she walked up there. I'm very confused. Either. Okay.

One of, one of two things I did not notice if he went to the voting booth before her. So someone could easily fact check this and know if I'm right or wrong about this. Maybe he walks up, you know, maybe if they know he's planning to use it, they have him walk up first or something. Again, I did not pay attention to that because I didn't think about it till just now. I wanna we got it like we got to Google it because was it was it a secret? Like maybe he block it and he didn't have to claim it. Maybe it was a secret thing. Well, it is a secret thing.

But what I'm saying is or what Jessica's saying is when I mean, it could be that he had to do it before tribal council, which means if something shifts in tribal council, he's screwed. But I see your point. Like, yeah, I see either either he had to tell production before tribal council. Yeah. Or they had to make they had to have him vote first so that he could tell them when he was up there. I want to use this voting block against. You know, this person. And so I'm

I'm not sure again, I would have to go back and watch it. I'm sure we'll hear from people if you know one way or the other on that. Yeah, I'm very curious. Yeah. Now, you're muted. Did I do that? How did I do that? What episode? What number episode was this? Seven. Seven. Seven. Okay. I'm going to Google it because I am very curious, but keep going.

I could reach my remote. I could put it on my TV here and look. But as for Cedric, he did not get his hands on any trinkets himself. But as I just mentioned, he did warn Say to use her idol when it looked like Kevin and Justin might be turning on her. And of course it had the added benefit that even after he helped change Justin's mind, okay, Say played her idol, that was one less thing

he had to worry about at the time. So it worked either way for him. Yes, yeah. I wonder too, like with the game mechanics, the whole like the vote tie or the tie vote and then the tie vote and then the like that whole thing was just. I that was that was a lot.

I know we've already talked about it once. Yeah. But that is a component of game mechanics as well that you need. Now, another component of game mechanics and this a couple of weeks ago when Bianca was voted out. I believe Liz mentioned how in certain situations, production would give a little extra time before going to tribal council if new information suddenly came out or someone was late from a from a confessional or something happened that people needed to be allowed to talk. And at least one of-

Wait, wait, wait. Explain that to me. So people are voting and they're still allowed to talk? No, no, no, no, no. No, this is before they go out. Just before lockdown for going to tribal council. Ah, okay. I was like, what? Okay, got it. At least one of his interviews, he mentioned that very thing, that when Bianca told him last minute about her lost vote, he got some of that bonus time and he clearly made good use of it to let Chrissy know.

That's right. That's right. And I also think I like when you know another player has an advantage. You don't have anything. You don't have any goodies in your bag, but then you kind of use it for your advantage. Just like he told Sy, say, Sy say, play it. This is the one you have to play it.

So I do like when you don't have anything, but you still kind of play with other people's goodies in order to help your game. So from that perspective, I think Cedric did what was right for him. Unfortunately, I don't think he got any advantages throughout, right? Like I don't think at any point he got anything.

So I do like that, that he used at least one of his allies and you know, it builds trust amongst both of them, et cetera, when you know it's really gonna happen. So I do like the play that he had for that, for the advantages, even though he didn't have any. Right. If we get to name this episode, it will be playing with other people's goodies. Yes, I like it. OK. Combine that with the way you guys have been talking about,

you know, poses. Milk? You got milk? Yeah. Yeah. So, we could go to appendix A, which discusses players keeping their end goals in mind when voting. We talk about voting out the weak than the strong,

then the weak than the strong. Now, as these votes were happening on TV, Tevin from Survivor 46 commented on Blue Sky that when he was playing, he got yelled at at this point in the game because people said it should just be the easy vote. Apparently the players this season listened to the people who were doing the yelling two seasons ago because both tribes voted out the weak in terms of alliances, which it generally makes sense to do, especially in this weird situation where they just came together for the merge and then they split back up into random groups.

You know, and we've, we've talked about this kind of thing before that adding twists just tends to make players act in a more conservative fashion. And that's exactly what happened in both groups here. Now is not the time to make big power moves. You're only with half of the other players. You're going to have to answer to the other half the next day or that night. Now is the time to find an easy consensus vote and go with it. And it's interesting because you did hear people.

I think Eva was even talking about how well, the last vote, we were going to vote for, say, or Chrissy and our charity. And it ended up being charity instead of say, but either of them could have gone home. And I feel like Joe said the same thing. So, yes, you know that if you're making this decision, when you're only with half your tribe, when you come together, they're going to say, Oh, well, that makes sense. We, you know, we expected that. And you aren't frustrating people and you aren't upsetting

people and no one's going to be expecting an explanation. So it is it is the safe thing to do in a circumstance like this. And again, I think you said it very appropriately when you split the tribes like this, once they've just come together and then we're going to split them off again. Yeah, you tend to take away those flashy big moves at this point. I agree. And I think it was it was unanimous for both. Is that other than the one that went home, voted for someone else? Right. But yeah, I think being unanimous speaks loud

exactly to what you both just said. Right. So they went with the low hanging fruit for now. Even Mitch, he Mitch talked in the tribal council how I've been out for the last two votes, you know, out of the vote. Please trust me. I want, you know, out of the vote. Please trust me. I want, you know, you to trust me so I can vote with you all. So it sucks when you're not part of the main vote. And in this one, clearly everyone was very aligned

with what was happening, other than the people that went home. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there are times when it could make sense to vote out strong players in a situation like this. Like, for example, if David had not won immunity and was on a tribe full of people There are times when it could make sense to vote out strong players in a situation like this. Like, for example, if David had not won immunity and was on a tribe full of people who were more like on Chrissy's side when it came to the thoughts about that.

But that wasn't the setup here. This setup was not conducive for anyone to do that. Several of them had reasons to go for the alternate targets of Mitch or Shaheen. But they just didn't want to pull the trigger because of the risk involved. Joe flat out said the safe move was safe even though the smartest gameplay move would be Mitch because he's the biggest threat in the game. Similarly, Chrissy and Say talked about the other tribe and said, of their smart, they'd go Shaheen. But none of that happened.

Right. Yeah. Agree. Now, Say, of course, knew she was on the bottom. She tried to talk to Joe. We talked about that earlier. She knew he was locked in. He was like this.

Not this one. He was like this. Exactly. That's the pose that Joe had. Yeah. You know, she tried to talk to Eva, but we knew that wasn't going to work because Eva knew Sey wanted her out last time. And Sey told Mike Bloom she wanted to have faith in her castmates

that they'd do something that wasn't so predictable. But people should not be playing survivor for entertainment value. They should be playing to win. So doing something predictable is often the best way to move forward. And plus we discussed earlier that Say called herself the wild card and the chaos maker. That is the opposite of predictable. We heard from both Eva and Chrissy that they saw, say, as being chaotic and rubbing people the wrong way. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Now, all of that definitely makes sense in regards to the voting. Although as viewers, we were like, oh, wouldn't it be so exciting and fun to see something unpredictable happen? But yes, you're not playing survivor for the viewers. You're playing it to win a million dollars. So if you have to go the safe route, you have to go the safe route. Right. Yep. And now I will tell you, because I think, and I've talked about this before, typically you think count making your vote counts means playing for the right people,

right? Or voting for the right person to go out and be on the majority. That's not always the case. Sometimes your vote, even if wrong, you're telling the people that is in your tribe or your alliances or there what you are doing, whether it's wrong or right, it does, maybe for the viewership,

it's like, oh, that person voted wrong. Sometimes you do send messages behind your vote. And you may know you may not that you will not be on the majority, but you are doing it on purpose. So that's when you truly make your vote counts. And sometimes that is a blurry line between the viewers and being in the island. Because I think as a viewer, most of the time you only go with the majority being the right vote. But when you are doing it from the island, there are some times where you're making these votes to send messages to the players that are playing this game with you. So yeah. And that's why I don't like when some people do these like charts or even if final tribal council, they'll be like, I voted correctly. 82% of the time.

Well, what is correctly if you're doing a vote split, let's say it's a plan, even aside from what you're saying, if you're a plan vote split, you know that you're voting for the secondary person. You are on the right side of the vote. But you didn't vote for the person who went home. Yeah. How do you count that? You know what is going on? Perfect example. Exactly. of the vote, but you didn't vote for the person who went home. How do you count that? You knew what was going on.

Perfect example. Exactly. Yeah. So in the other group here, moving away from Sey and to Cedric, we saw Kyle and Camilla talking about going after maybe Shaheen. But they said they would need David on board and needed to create a situation where David would think Shaheen wasn't trustworthy.

While they did plant the idea of him having a secret idol and maybe being a person of concern for later, it seems pretty clear that they didn't manage to get David's or get past David's like automatic loyalty filter for this vote. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. You know, it was a lot more straightforward as David recognized. If he voted out Cedric, he kept the strong five intact. And as someone said on one of the RJP podcasts already, I think it was Rob, but I couldn't be wrong.

It's hard to say you stand for honesty and loyalty when you vote out one of your supposed strong allies at the first opportunity. Right. So, you know, so while Kyle and Camilla could have gotten the votes together, it would not have gone very well for them going forward. I agree with that. Although I do think it's a long term game plan.

It was, they said it, It's just planting a seed. It doesn't come overnight. It's coming though. I bet it's going to come. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, we can move on for the first time this season to Appendix

B, which deals with the jury phase, which of course we are now entering. We have one. Yes. Well, we have one, but what's most interesting to me is I don't really have anything to say about Cedric. I have more to say about how it affected say say, right? Because I think it hurt her that she had a reputation for being chaotic and people thought she might get angry because someone voted her out. But if if she wasn't

voted out now before the jury, someone could feel later like, oh, if I vote her out later, she's going to be mad at me and never give me her vote. And they wouldn't be able to predict how she'd vote. And, you know, on the one hand, you could say, well, she might be mad at anyone. But on the other hand, that's not the kind of chaos you want as you approach a jury. And certainly, Heidi, you know this better at anyone. But on the other hand, that's not the kind of chaos you want as you approach a jury. And certainly, Heidi, you know this better than anyone. You want to at least be able to try to predict what each juror could be thinking. Right on. And it certainly doesn't always work.

But it's better than going in blind. Yeah. And, you know, there were some people who already knew she might not be too fond of them like Chrissy. That's right. Or Eva. Yes. Yeah, she says she's going to vote for Jeff. Carol, there you go. Yes. Yeah, wild card. So, yeah, if you if you're going to vote someone out to be in the jury, right.

Or in that case, they knew the person was not going to make the jury. This is the time to get her out, right? Because you want that wild card completely out of the picture. So I don't think it helped her case. From Cedric's perspective, I was thinking about this a bit because I was thinking, okay, maybe he has a soft spot for Mary because they were in Bula, suffering all those tribal councils together. I don't know because at the same time she still voted for him. He probably realized this is probably unanimous, although when you get voted out, you don't see all the votes. So it's one of those where it's a little bit of a roller coaster for me on what would happen with Cedric if he's going to have a little bitterness or not. But seeing, knowing him from what I saw on my TV seems like a person that could

just get by, like I would maybe not be bitter against Mary, which could help Mary later on, you know, like kind of get those votes that she will need. She will have a harder time getting those votes later on if she makes it to the end, because if there's only one Vula, there's only going to be one Vula in the jury if somehow she pulls through she makes it to the end because if there's only one Vula, there's only gonna be one Vula in the jury if somehow she pulls through all the way to the end. Yep, yep. All right, well, it is about time to wrap things up.

So Heidi, what are your final thoughts on Say and Cedric? Ah, okay, like them. I really like them both. I like the juxtaposition of both of them being so completely different, different approaches to the game. The chaos, the wild card portion of say versus Cedric being very stoic, right? Very like what you see is what you get. At least that's what the perception I got from both of them. Yet they were allies and they went home the same week. I will say though, I hate, hate, hate for say the fact that she allegedly made their marriage getting a blue buff, but not making the jury.

I hate the merge story. I was so sad when in my season, Josh was in the majority. He should have been part of the jury because he got to know everyone. I actually do not like it. Sorry producers, but it's the reality of what I feel. You're kicked out of 50 now. It's just, I'm a little sad for her. I truly am. I mean, she's barely going to get any experience in Ponderosa. She's barely going to get it. She's not going to get the jury. So I'm just kind of sad that she she got a great edit, though.

So I think she got a lot of time just a little sad for them. I do think they could have maybe they could have done a few other things to get themselves a little bit longer. But it was clearly a time for both of them to go. I think it's fascinating that we find ourselves talking about Say and Cedric together. They are so different. Yes, yes. It's fascinating to see the games that they each played.

They each played them in a completely different way, but they connected while doing so. So that's what I think is like the beautiful part of survival, right? Where you can take two people who are approaching the game completely different and still they will bond and they will come together. And I do think it's fascinating that Vula was just so terrible. And unfortunately, it seems to be happening season after season when you have three tribes that one is just going to be not so great.

And I do think that for both, say, and Cedric, it negatively affected their ability to play this game in the best way that they could. They both had incredible attributes, and I think they both could have made it incredibly far in this game based upon those attributes. But unfortunately, they were coming from a losing tribe being put into a merge with majority level of people from either tribe who have also decided in honesty and integrity and loyalty as the game rule, if you will,

something say couldn't stand and something Cedric couldn't get because of where they came from, unfortunately. And so I feel for say and I feel for Cedric, just as you did, Heidi, because I think both of them had such amazing components to play Survivor. But unfortunately, Survivor is also about luck and it's also about what you do with what you're given. And if you don't break through the problems that are created for you, like we see Mary doing, which we've talked about and we've compared their games to Mary's this entire podcast, she's taking a bad thing and making it work for her. Yeah. We're not able to.

So unfortunately for saying Cedric, they are no longer with us. Although Cedric, we will be seeing, and I can't wait to see what he's going to rock when he's on the Jerry, because in his interview, you know, he was wearing that awesome little jacket and so he's going to be styling when he gets out there for the jury. So it'll be nice to see the mayor of Ponderosa. Unfortunately, we will not see Say, but I'm sure we're going to continue to hear and see Say in many other places. So yes, those are my thoughts on Say and Cedric.

Yes. Well said. Well, I know there are people out there who don't like Say and probably never will. There are others who love Say don't like say and probably never will. There are others who love say and won't abide any criticism of her. And what we've discussed here certainly could be used to give either side ammunition. But there's say the person and say the survivor player. I enjoyed both, but we have to look at her as the survivor player who was voted out just

before the jury. And as a player, she made mistakes. The biggest was she acted like, say, the person would in other situations, not really adjusting herself for the game situation she was in. As I said earlier, it can be admirable to stick to your guns and be yourself in everyday life, where you can just choose not to associate with people who don't get you. But Survivor is not real life, and players need to adjust accordingly. Sure, many of us had fun watching say be say, but also as I said earlier, players should not be there to provide our entertainment. They should be playing to win, at least as far as we're concerned on this podcast. Say had a better social game than many people gave her credit for. But that was only when

she decided to use it. She specifically talked about not wanting to deal with some people and wasn't able to be fake when it came to getting to know people. She'd later be voting out. However, all of these are virtually requirements when it comes to playing Survivor. The goal is to vote out almost everyone. But you aren't going to be able to do that if you don't have some other people on your side. At some point, you're going to have to turn on most

of those other people too. It's one of the key aspects of this game. You don't necessarily have to be everybody's favorite person at all times, but you at least shouldn't be most people's least favorite. Through her interactions and her lack of interactions and the impression she made before even meeting some people, she was seen as chaotic and messy. Someone like that is almost always going to be easy to vote out when things get shaken up. Meanwhile, we had Cedric, who is the opposite of Se in so many ways. He seemed to connect with those that he met.

He was calm and he balanced Say out, but he still only came into the merge with one true ally. It's quite possible if there hadn't been these split tribal councils, Cedric would have faded into the background if Say was still voted out. That would have given him more time to create those social connections

and take the ones he'd already made and expand on them and make new ones that maybe he had just gotten started with. He obviously wouldn't have been sent home as a challenge threat. But I think the number of people who came into the merge and the speed of the game at that moment made it all more difficult. You can't connect on a deep level with that many people all at once, especially when they're all running around, trying to reestablish old bonds and put together new ones.

And even more especially when you're almost immediately split up again into new groupings. He became a man without an ally, as even Mary abandoned him in favor of greener grass elsewhere. Not green without the elsewhere. Not green. Without the green. Exactly. Even though he was so different from, say, he was still the conservative, easy vote in the middle of a shakeup.

Cedric and Say were bound together throughout the entirety of their time in the game. Say saved Cedric from being the first voted out. Cedric saved Say from being the second and then again eventually from being the third and then again from being the fifth and probably from being the sixth too. Their bond was tighter than we saw even as they sometimes sniped at one another but they were always together. Then the first time they weren't together, they were separated. Both of them were voted out. While some of the reasons were very different, it came back to the fact

that while both of them had each other, neither of them really had the same kind of outside allies, especially in the groupings they ended up. And when Survivor production shakes up the Fiji snow globe, players tend to retreat to their safe places by going the easiest route. There were a number of different reasons why each of them was the easiest, but you put them all together and that is why Say and Cedric lost. There we are. All right. Well, are we going to do predictions? Oh, yes. But before we get to predictions, we have more things to talk about.

We don't like prediction. You just got the right. You just got them. I did. I did. So I celebrate myself. Celebrate. And it also means you're going to go first. But no, well, yeah, it works. Thanks for reminding me. But before we get to predictions,

why don't let everyone know that next week we are happy to have another returning special guest as James Jones coming back as our. Yes, very nice. Exciting. And as I'll mention in a little while, I think it's appropriate timing for him, depending on what happens in the in the game. We also want to remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are available in poster form, poster on a t-shirt form, and checklist on a t-shirt form. So again, go to, whoop, go to robhizzlewebsite.com

slash yxlostfeed, and you can find all of that. Now also before we get to predictions, Heidi, where can people find you on social media? Oh, thank you for that. So you can see my handle here at Heidi Lagares and it's the same for anywhere, any social media out there. And yeah, if you have comments, questions, DM me, and I'll try to get there. I go in through detox sometimes. There's weeks that I'm like,

I don't check anything. And then all of a sudden I'm like, okay, let me see what my friends are doing. Right? So yeah, be patient. If you send me something, I don't get back to you. I will eventually get back to you. So it can be overwhelming. Yes. Yes. Oh, it's healthy to take a detox from social media. So I recommend recommend it, especially if you are in this, you know, reality TV environment. And I'm not even a big social media person, but it's always good to do it. Yes, yes.

Now I am at JessicaLewis89 on both Blue Sky and Twitter, and I am at JessicaLluis6789 on Instagram. David Bloomberg is much more of a social butterfly than I ever am. When you want to talk about a detox, I take one a lot. David Bloomberg doesn't. He overdoses every day with the social media. So much so that he has a Linktree account so you can easily find him wherever he might be posting, which is so many places. So David, where can they find you?

So yes, the you can find me at link tree slash David Bloomberg. And there's a dot before the EE in that URL there. Or you can find me directly on blue skies at David Bloomberg. Heidi, we got to get you on blue sky. I know. I know. Is that a good thing? Everyone is in it now. Yeah. And, you know, in addition to the text social media, I post at least two or three, sometimes more reality TV short videos every day on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram as at David Bloomberg TV.

Right now they're a mix of US survivor, of course, Australian survivor, including many why blank lost videos. And this coming week, there will be a why blank one for that. Extracted, sometimes when they're interesting. Amazing race, sometimes when they're interesting. And the end of Million Dollar Secret, which I've had a few. Now, speaking of Million Dollar Secret, I'm also had a few. Now, speaking of Million Dollar Secret, I'm also podcasting about it or just,

I finished podcasting about the series for the Tradar, that's T-R-A-I-D-A-R if you wanna look that up. And, you know, whether wherever you get podcasts or on YouTube. So, the finale recap is done, but we will have some interviews coming up soon as well. So watch for those. Amazing.

So, you don't need to do detox when you're retiring. This is what you do. I know. I mean, sometimes there are days where I definitely should detox. There were a couple days where I said one thing on social media and it wasn't related to reality TV. And I ended up blocking literally 600% more people than I had blocked before. So yeah, it does happen. And yeah, after that day, I had to be like, who? Okay, I need to. Yeah. But so it does happen for And yeah, after that day I had to be like, whoo, okay, I need to. Yeah, but.

So it does happen for me. But even on those days, even on the days when my kids were getting married, I posted videos, you know, and maybe they weren't as many videos, but I, I don't miss a day. He's so dedicated. I love this. All right. Going to predictions. Jessica, being the excellent predictor prognosticator that you were last week, you can tell us

what you think will happen. All right. So here's my theory. You ready for this? I think it's gonna be Mitch. And I think it's gonna be Mitch because we had so much Mitch content this past episode. Even though I know he was someone

that they were targeting, kind of, they were talking about it as potentially being Mitch. Normally, when you see so much content with someone it's almost like a red herring. You're like, oh, we want to focus on this person. But there's a reason why they wanted to talk about Mitch. And I think it's because Mitch goes home next week. He is unfortunately not been able to infiltrate that group. And everyone was talking about Mitch is going to win if he gets to the end. Like they're they're recognizing the threat level that he brings for so many reasons.

And then they're all at the water well having that lovely conversation about Mitch. Like, so you're a teacher. Do your students know what you're doing? And he's like, oh, no, but oh, they're gonna be so, and it was like building Mitch up, and I'm like, he is such a threat in a final three situation, no one is gonna want him there, despite the honesty, integrity, loyalty, I think it's gonna be Mitch, that's my theory.

And the funny thing is, I've been meaning to do a video on this one, Joe gives this whole confessional about how great Mitch is and how he'll win if he gets to the end. And we're watching this going, you just described yourself in Eva too. Right? Do you realize that you did that?

Yes, it's like when you point your finger, it's like point your finger, like four fingers pointing back at you. Like it's that thing that's happening. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Do I go next? You. Mm hmm. Interesting. All right. Do I go next? You can go next. Sure. All right. I'm going wild at wild card. I'm going say style style.

I love it. Yes. I think and I'm basing this on possibly like if I was there, who would I vote next? I'm going to say David. And I know you didn't see this coming, but he did so well at the physical challenge this past week. You know, the whole posting, right? If I'm in the game, I will be like, okay, this guy is a threat, right?

From a physical standpoint, people love him too. And I am reading, Jessica read into the edit, I'm reading a little bit into the preview that there's something chaotic happening. So I feel like the whole strong Alliance thing may be coming in like cracking. And if someone is going to go home from the crack, from the crack, I don't think it's going to be Kyle and Camila cause they have a pretty good quiet. They made it look in the edit and the preview that could be one of them. I think it's going to go David's side. I know I told you, I was going wild card there. So I think it's going to be David. So you think it's going to be this guy.

Yes. Thank you for that, David. No, no, you need to do nexus. Throw up your your AI version of David. Yes. Yes. My version of him with the got milk ad. Yes. No, no, no, no, no, no. The David Bloomberg AI version. Oh, Bloomberg.

Yes. I can't wait to see that for the listeners. If you are, I mean, you could probably tell, but if you are just listening and not watching, we just saw David doing the post and I've been doing it the whole episode for the two hours we've been talking. I've did it like five times. I love it like five times. I love it.

All right, so, Heidi, you say it's crazy and it's chaotic and wild card. I predicted David would go this week. That was my prediction. This week, yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotcha, gotcha. I am not, however, predicting next week. I am predicting the same thing as Jessica. Mitch. Now, from the preview, it looks like the muscle heads

are gonna try to push their weight around. The muscle heads, yeah. Which seemingly leads to Kyle telling- The milkhead. Yeah, right. I like it. Yeah. Seemingly leads to Kyle telling Camilla

that David is trying to flip the vote to her. To me, because we saw that, that tells me Camilla is the safest person there. My initial feeling was, okay, if they're going to try this, it's not going to go well for them. We know there's already a resistance forming made up of people like Chrissy and Starr who don't want to deal with their honesty, loyalty, integrity, big, strong muscle BS. The question is, can those people pull enough opposition together?

Or are people just going to fall in line to keep themselves safe and let others get picked off for now? I have a feeling it's the latter that's going to happen. They're just going to fall in line. Especially if the big strong alliance goes after their fellow challenge beast who isn't in that alliance for some reason. And that of course is Mitch. We talked earlier about how Joe sees him as the number one threat. It seems to me this is where they are likely heading. So I unfortunately have to join you Jessica Jessica, in making this

my prediction. And that is what could make this the perfect episode for James to be on. Because he has long advocated for big threats to go to the end together rather than taking each other out. So we'll see what happens and we will find out what he has to say about all of that. That will be very interesting. So you think the milkheads are going to go at each other next week? I think we kind of saw it. No, not at each other.

They're going after Mitch. Well, I guess they're not going to go at each other. I think they're going to go at each other. But we'll see. I'm interested. All right. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people to check out the RJP patron program at Rob has website.com slash patron, you can get access here to get

people more interested in what I'm saying. Let's put this back up there. At least we'll get half the audience more interested. My mother is gonna love it. There you go. You can I suppose I close and all. You can get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons, plus Facebook groups and Discord. And you support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at robhaswebsite.com slash patron.

And also make sure you're subscribed to all of the RHAP Survivor podcasts by going to we knowsurvivor.com. You can see all the various Survivor podcasts there. You can select your podcast service of choice and you'll find a ton of great content. Like, of course, us, the Know-It-Alls, the B&B, Survivor Global, all the other podcasts that Rob does for Survivor and other people do for Survivor. So, you know, definitely go to weknowsurvivor.com and subscribe. And I would like to thank David,

who I see on my screen right now, for the entertaining qualities that he is bringing. Me? And... Say thank you, thank you. You milk, you do a body good. You milk if you do a body good. Um, I'm, I'm so sorry. I'm not trying to be inappropriate or rude, but anyway, I would like to thank

the R H A P team for all of the incredible work that you do. Scott Jess and Doug who lead the team. Thank you so much for what you do. The editing that not only you create for the wide blank gloss podcast, but also all of the content that you did hear David Bloomberg speak about. Will from America, thank you for the theme song that you created for this podcast on the audio version. We love it. It's fantastic. Thank you so much for that. And Heidi, thank you so much for joining us again. It was lovely and fun as always. It's always nice having you here. And thank you for posing upon request. I truly appreciate that very much.

Thank you for having me. I love you guys and it's been a fun ride. So thank you. Okay, well, thank you again. Yes, Heidi. And yeah, it's always a lot of fun, like Jessica said. Thank you, Jessica, of course. And, you know, we'll

all thank David for for giving you this, you know, this enjoyment here. So we will again see everyone in a week with James. And until then, you can find us on social media. Bye. Bye. Bye. And this is why blind loves Oh baby, this is why blind loves casino app where every deal, spin and goal brings Las Vegas excitement into the palm of your hand. Take your seat at Premium Blackjack Pro where strategy meets top-tier gameplay. Drop in on the exciting Sugar Rush and Crazy Time slot games or play the dazzling MGM Grand Emerald Nights, a slot experience that captures the magic of MGM. With so many games it's time to make your move.

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