RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why ___ Lost: Survivor 49 Ep 7

Episode Date: November 8, 2025

Why ___ Lost: Survivor 49 Ep 7 Most players come into Survivor knowing they should understand how to make fire. But Nate came into the game as the oldest player on his tribe and had to learn that EVERYTHING is “fire”! Not to mention “cinema” and “vibes.” He seemed to adapt and some even saw […]

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We'd love to talk, business. If you lost Survivor and you're feeling down David and Jessica will turn it around They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how You play in yourself and got voted out This is why Blank lost This is why Blank lost Oh baby this is why Blank lost

Welcome back to the 10th anniversary season of Why Blaine Gloss. I'm David Bloomberg and much like Savannah, I've decided I'm going to try to not be a psycho. But also like Savannah, I'll probably fail. Joining is, of course, my co-host, Jessica Lewis, who would never try to steal a key ring from me, probably. Probably I would. I think I would. I have to give her props. It was a pretty brave, brave move, although a little psycho, yes, I will say. And with us is our returning special guest, an ER doctor, Harvard Medical School Assistant Professor, friend of SIA, and recently a recipient of the 2025 National Academy's Eric and Wendy Schmidt Award for Excellence in Science Communication, granted by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine, Dr. Jeremy Faust. That is an introduction.

Wow. Thank you so much. It's so great to be here. And thanks for having me back. I think this is now, I've almost been on this show as many times as coach will have been on Survivor after season 40 or whoever else has played too many times. Ozzy. Ozzy. Oh yeah. Sorry. Yeah. But I'm so, but I'm so thrilled to be on the 10 year anniversary season. That's a huge accomplishment. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, whenever you're here, I mention how you go on CNN and MSNBC and places like that to discuss matters of public health and the impact on the nation. You know, you're breaking news stories about the CDC on a fairly regular basis in your substack newsletters. Then you got that award I mentioned. And then you say, that's not enough. I need to elevate my status and come on why blank lost.

Exactly. it is the it is the coolest and most random thing in my life so thank you but I wanted to uh to let you guys know how I feel about your 10 year anniversary so I did make a little tribute to you to to say I'm on the island of my own idols and there it is for those there we are only you're only if you're listening you cannot see that there is a potentially chat GPT generated picture of of David Bloomberg and Jessica Lewis as idols and I asked it to make an island of the idols of them and it did an okay job you both look like you're you both look like you're humans in that thing that's true that's true and I like how it doesn't have you know since it doesn't have arms or hands it can't give us like six fingers and stuff like that no but I'm just but as you can see I'm just lost well and all of my hair is lost I mean most of it is but in this all of it is so You look very much like someone on a movie, and I can't, I can't.

Yeah, he's a nice, tight shave. It's, it's, anyway, there's, there's, there's, there's definitely an actor who you are, um, looking like. Oh, Mandy Patentkin is playing him in the, in the biopic for sure. Okay, cool. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Well, that's fantastic. Thank you for doing that for us.

I do love it. That's great to be back. So other than all of that, or even including. all that how have you been doing since we last had you on things are good i am enjoying this season i have lots of things i want to talk about for the season because this is my one chance to just get all of my survivor ideas out to the public so i'm excited to share that but everything else is just the huge i'm writing my substand which you mentioned and um that's it uh seeing patience and doing research and enjoying survivor in between all that well it sounds like you

you have plenty of spare time to be watching Survivor and doing podcasts. So great. Let's get to it. I mean, because of your substack and your social media, I have seen what you're doing this week. And it's like yesterday, do a round table or something like that presentation on sepsis.

Today, you had something later on in the weekend. You have something. And, you know, here talk about why Nate was. Right. It's just one more thing. Oh, can I just say, though?

I forgot about this. I was actually in Norway a week or two ago giving a lecture at their CDC. And the guy who organized it said during dinner that he found me on blue sky. And that's how he first knew who I was. And I'm 99% sure that David, you were the person to say, Jeremy, you have to go on blue sky. So I think that I got this international talk at the, at the Oslo Central Disease Centers for Disease Control because you got me on Blue Sky. So see, this is all, this is all part of the whole plan. It's the full circle.

Full circle here. Yeah, you need to be on Blue Skymore. I know you're mostly on threads, but, uh, so thank you. Like he has extra time for that too. Well, that's true. That is. I mean, come on, Jeremy. Just add one more thing to your list of accomplishments and things that need to be done.

Yeah. So getting to Nate. Oh, wait. No, getting to me because this May week is my. is my fifth correct prediction in a row and this was not a gimmee like a few of the other ones last week when we were making predictions Jessica you and Heidi made a case for Joanne

and you almost swayed me but I stuck to my guns and I didn't cave to the peer pressure yeah you know they say that you shouldn't and I'm glad that you didn't because I've told you before I'm bad at predictions so it's good that you stuck to your gun and didn't listen to what I was feeling last week because it clearly was not correct

but Joanne was kind of like a star of this episode a little bit yes we'll talk about that as we go now of course that doesn't mean I'm happy Nate is gone just happy I got the prediction right I like Nate and I'm upset that he and Joanne and Stephen

never got together into a Marvel alliance here you know they you know they could have said that you know what is that phrase uh that they you know together um it would have been funny to see them i don't want to get into any copyright trouble so we'll just leave it at that but uh you know they would have been funny to see them doing that on on the show well yes but i do

think that juan ruined any chance for a cameo on any marvel movie well that's true he is he is not going to be on the avengers he is not going to be on the avengers he is not going to be assembling on the Avengers probably. So, but I do think that, you know, that may come up in the rules, that something, something about that might just come up. Jeremy's ready. Yeah. I'm very ready for that one.

Because, you know, not to get ahead, I have, I have my own rules that I've suggested over the years. And none of them have made the poster, let's be honest. but I will say that I went to the Rob has a podcast live event in Boston last year and it was the middle of last season

and I met Kyle and so I didn't at that time know that I was speaking to the winner but he and he's a big listener of this show obviously and he made a beeline for me and said hey I love the way you talk about Survivor

and I was like dude I love the way you play a Survivor you are playing the game that I would like to play And then so we kind of kept in touch a little bit. And then there was this moment where he said on the show, Survivor is a game that's won in the margins. And I DMed him.

I said, tonight's the first night that I think you won. I think you won. You're not going to tell me if you won a loss, but I think you won. And I even said, I think that you recorded that after that you won. And David didn't agree with that. And I verify later that David was right, as usual. But seriously, they're this

what was I going to say why did I go on this I have no idea it was about jobs and high but we know which we'll get to later oh yeah about like lying about who you are being a pro yeah so being a professional so one of my rule one of my big rules is being professional everyone's a professional on this game

they know how to play it another one is I don't think people should lie about their jobs because it's one more thing that gets in the way but I just want to say how professional they are is at that same event I met Emily Flippin and we were talking for quite some time and Emily Flippen had me completely believing

that she was not going to be on Survivor 50 like she said something to me that was like oh yeah she can't go because she's moving or she has a new job or there's something or it was like an objective thing which is like I'd love to do it but I can't and so I had to not do it and I'm like oh that's too bad

and then she's on I'm like God these people they I would have been bamboozled by her you know how can I play that game well you're good at lying you're probably going to be good at survivor yeah well speaking of bamboozled you know Nate unfortunately was was not able to channel his superhero powers towards continuing on survivor so we will follow our usual path to figure out what went wrong by comparing his game to a set of guiding rules for winning i originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since we'll collect all the non-spoilers

information available to us, like their infinity stones, from what we saw on TV, interviews, social media, and secret scenes. The newest published version of the rules can be found by going to Rob has a website.com slash YX lost speed and clicking on the link bubble for the survivor rules. But before we address how Nate did, we always have some other things to discuss. And like you mentioned, Jessica, Joanne, I want to begin by applauding him for listening to me when I said he needed to open his eyes in the game because clearly my words went back in time to him. Butterfly. Yes, I was worried he would need more convincing, but Sage got him on board and saw what was

happening. And then he was fully committed. And we'll, of course, discuss more of why as we get into the rules. But I just wanted to circle back to this since I specifically mentioned it last week. Yes. And of course, he is your winner pick. so I can understand why I'd like to chat about him a little bit too but my girl Sophie my winner pick

she's killing it oh oh okay I'm glad you brought that up all right because we need to talk about this yeah which one's rich she Sophie with an eye is Sophie yes and Sophie with an eye is my winner pick Sophie with an E is the one who won the immunity individual immunity

but like I am someone who is obviously my name is Jessica, right? And when I was in school, there was another Jessica in my class. And so in kindergarten, my teacher decided, well, that girl's last name, we both had bees, but her last name came first in the alphabet. So she was Jessica and I became Jessie. And I was like, oh, well, that's fun. I have a different name. And then I was Jesse all through elementary school. Everything I did was Jesse. Then when I got to like middle school and high school. I was like, I don't want to be Jesse.

I'll be Jess. So then I went by Jess. And it wasn't until I got to actual college that I started using my real name, Jessica. And I just, I had this moment when I saw this happening where like someone else was designating her with a different name. And I was like, no, like don't do that. Like, it was just a little bit of a. So name me, like, come on.

Like let her decide what she wants to go with. not someone else. And it seemed on the show like she had agreed to it, I thought. But in chat, BCC, she was like, for the record, I did not want to be called. So, so, yes, if you want to pick a different name because there's two sofies, two Jessica's, whatever, let the person decide what they would like to go by. Just a little, you know, thing to remember. I am glad that Rizzo is only Riz God in confessionals. Yes.

I was very worried about a about a player called Riz God yes well he is very much Riz God in his confessional yeah but outside he's Rizzo and that's good

I like I like the line yes so you know Sage Jawan and Stephen obviously convinced everyone that you know that Shannon had lost her mind

and they say when you're when you're telling a lie. It's always good to have a kernel of truth. And there's a big kernel there. Nobody seemed to doubt it. And they were completely convinced, or at least almost everyone was, since Nate said in his interviews that he was a little leery because the Shannon they described did not describe the Shannon that he'd interacted with. And she was less woo-woo with him. But what that tells me is it just takes us back. to what we discussed last week about her being performative.

She catered it to who she was talking to. Yeah, that's a fair point. I do like that he chose woo-woo. Yes. I actually thought that that moment revealed something about a missed opportunity for him to have had a closer connection to Sage, that they are sort of cut from the same cloth of sort of, they're more objective kind of people.

They're less magical thinkers. And I would have thought that I know so little about the relationship. And that comment made me think about that. But maybe that's maybe I'm getting into the rules. Yeah, a little bit. I think there's a little bit coming out of that. Well, I like many others, was happy there was no mergatory. I suspected that we had the sea snake to think for that.

And Jeff confirmed it in the on fire podcast. He wanted them to have to quote, earn it. but the numbers were what they were. I guess they earned it by avoiding snakes. But of course, Jeff had to say that. Well, what he said was they don't get the merge meal because they have to earn that. It's the merge meal.

They made the merge. Sounds to me like they already earned it. And I do think that there's something very kind of special about that merge meal because it does give you an opportunity to really all come together. It forces you to have to talk to everybody because everyone is sharing food

and people are acknowledging each other's presence. But you also can forget about the game for a minute. And we did see this conversation come up during the merge meal that only half people were at in this episode where Sophie was like, shouldn't we be talking about the game right now? Like this feels kind of awkward. Yeah.

And I think that that can be avoided if you let everybody come together because I think you're still going to have some awkwardness, but you're still going to have those people that want to talk with each other. So, and I also feel like the merge meal shouldn't be so structured. Like everyone had a seat and everyone was in their place and they weren't really that close to each other. I kind of enjoy it better. like with ours it was literally a trunk full of food and we all just started taking things out and we sat on

the on the ground and just we were eating at our camp just taking all the food out and it wasn't so structured and I feel like sometimes just letting people kind of be natural is going to welcome those conversations as opposed to individual like places to sit I think the joyous merge meal is missing someone else has said that And I also think, but I think that Jeff has the wrong idea about them earning it. I'll tell you something. There are three players who made it 14 days in this game without having to go to tribal council.

They made the jury without having cast a single vote. And that's because of the three tribes set up and there's multiple swaps. And you can ask the great Christian Hubiki what the odds of this happening are when you have like one tribe that's a disaster. You could sort of do that sort of Bayesian analysis. It's a combination of dice, but it's a loaded die. So Christian can help us with that. But my point is I don't think it's that unlikely, given this scenario, that that would happen.

And I'm thinking, earn the merge. Like, these people haven't even played a game of Survivor yet. And so I'm sure there are great players. There's nothing against them at all. But, and to your point, Sophie, she couldn't wait to play the game. I wouldn't play it because this is my first time playing Survivor today. I haven't been tribal. And so I think it would have been nicer to see everyone get drunk together.

And remember that whole thing when people would get a little sloppy and then the tribe lines would start to blur. So I really feel like I hope in the hands of the fans we get two tribes. We get a real merge. I was glad to see no mergerary. So I would say some progress, but still room for improvement. Yeah. Yes. I agree.

I will also say that Jeff knows I feel this way now because I actually have not been so in touch with Sia lately, but last we talked, she did share with Jeff my video that I put on Instagram where I was saying how to vote. And I had said things like, you know, we need two tribes and that kind of a thing. And Jeff saw it and he was like, oh, this guy's old school. He's funny, but he's old school. Jeff knows who I am through Sia's video. That's amazing. You are like the most incredible human being. Every time I sit here in this space and do this podcast with you, I learned

something else new about you that just blows my mind. Oh, no. So I'm about to just like drop another. So here's what happened. So Sia tells me like way back in March or April, hey, I'm going to be kind of offline for a while. So, you know, I'll text you in a few months. I was like, ooh, am I getting ghosted? But she told me this. So it's not ghosting.

And then I thought, oh, it's Survivor 50. She's going to be on Survivor 50. And I was having, but I don't think that's what it was. I later found out that I think it's just some personal stuff. I actually, I don't follow the Hollywood news, but then I googled and I was like, oh, Cia's having a rough time. I think she's fine, but she needed a little time. So I kind of like was giving CSA some space. And but I have a new survivor connection to my life. And that is that my three-year-old daughter

is in preschool with the child of Sophie Clark. What? So Sophie Clark has now been in my house, but I wasn't even here. And so when I met Sophie finally, I was like, hey Sophie, I'm just going to come out and say, I'm the second biggest survivor fan at this preschool, you're number one. But I'm a big fan.

And she kind of heard about me a little bit. And so we had a chance to talk. And I learned some things. So anyway, one of the things that Sophie talked a lot about was the old versus the new and but also casting. This is something that she made a really interesting point about casting that I think maybe you talked about at one point, which is that there's a lot more

diversity these days, which we really like to see, but there's not age diversity. No, there's not. And there's not kind of walk of life diversity. And that's, and she was actually saying that there's too many people who are actually like gamers like we would be. But, and not enough of the sort of fun

like whack-a-doodle person that they, you know, they basically recruit it, recruits. Anyway, but this plays into Nate. But anyway, so yes, a long story short, I'm hoping to get back in touch with you but the good news is I'm working on the Sophie Clark friendship all right I love this for you look at you making all the connects this is great yeah as far as the whackadoodle I can do without them

because all too often the people they bring on is whackadoodles ah look at this funny whackadoodle on the show turn out to be like real whackadoodles in real life that promote dangerous things like the one who says drink your own urine or you know yes exactly listen to Jeremy Faust on now or you know the various other ones we won't go into all of them but yes there are a number of wackadoodles who that's a proper description of them it's just the show thought they were the funny ha ha type and it's like no they're not yeah so and this is another thing that I wanted to ask you both, which is about this kind of, the kind

of players who are playing? Who was the one, Jeremiah was the one who was all into astrology? And I'm always thinking about the rules of Survivor in case I ever decide to try to go on or someone listening here goes on to win, which I'm sure will happen. And if that happens, like, you know, say hi.

The, you should definitely know how to start fire. You should definitely know how to do a puzzle. But David, should I go and learn about astrology right now? Just so that I can blow smoke up the ass of a Jeremiah, I'm like, oh, yeah, Taurus is definitely in the moon or the mercury. Word salad, word salad.

You know, just to be relatable, I should know about, like, astrology, and I should know about Marvel comics because God knows I do not. I mean, I, the thing is you're already, I mean, you're, you're obviously, you know, you're younger than me, but you're already at the high end of the age category there. Oh, yeah. Um, and so I, I, I liked Sophie with an eyes approach when Jeremiah approached, you know, came to her and said, do you, are you into astrology? And she said, no, but I'm happy to listen. Uh, I think that was the appropriate for the game. As I said at the time, I would have said, no, get out of my hair. But, uh, you know, I probably wouldn't have if I were actually playing. But that would have been what I was thinking. So props, her for saying that and you know I mean or you can just be like Shannon and make stuff up you know you can just make up you know you could just make up your own new agey type stuff and combine it

all together and who can say you're wrong all right here's the next here's the next level of insanity though it would be like okay I'm going to learn astrology so well so that the person who I'm working with I'm playing against Jeremiah oh I'm an aries so he thinks that I'm like this And therefore, I'm going to use that and actually fool him. So knowing astrology so well, you can actually predict what someone else who believes in it thinks, regardless of whether it's true. See, the thing with the thing with Jeremiah, and we discussed this at the time, was he told Alex what he thinks he's like. Alex didn't have to do any research to find out. Jeremiah told him, oh, you're a this.

And therefore, that means you're like this and this and this. and gentlemen. I'm like, okay. And so, you know, why bother to spend the time doing the research if someone's just going to tell you all their thoughts anyway? It's fair point. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for $2.50 a month. Learn more at p.cexpress.ca.

So, before we get to the rules, I do have one last topic I want to discuss, and that is Savannah, because we saw a lot of how she's playing in this episode, and we talked about it a little bit in the intro. When she wants to get you on her side, she looks intently into your eye and says, I trust you. I love you. I want to work with you. and she's lying and the funny thing is she's really not being successful she did it to both Sage and MC this week and both of them

had confessionals afterwards saying yeah I'm not buying it and MC even described an evil gleam in her eyes there really was a bit of a something happening there and I do think Savannah is definitely

picking it up a notch and playing rather hard but seeming to like not find the balance the way that she needs to I'm certain she's going to continue to do well though despite everything that's happening but yeah there is like you had it raining in just a little bit I mean even she said that she didn't want to appear psycho

and I think that's what she what she ended up saying when she was like hovering over MC like as MC was trying to open up the box and was like talking at her And it's like, no, if you're even thinking that about yourself, then maybe the other person is probably thinking the same thing. So at that point, it's too late. You've already crossed into that domain.

So yeah, I think she needed to step back just a little bit. And also, not for nothing, but you just tried to steal the keys away from MC. And Zen, you're like, I really want to work with you. I think you're so great. And it's like, honey, you just tried to tackle me. from the keys that I need to open this box. And now you're telling me you want to work with me. Again, not reading the room very well at that point.

I loved that scene, though. That was so fun. It was fun, for sure. What did she think would happen if she got them? They were attached to a big chain. And, I mean, you know, even I guess maybe she didn't see the chain. But what was she going to do? Run.

Pick them up and run down the beach. stay out of reach one I don't think she was thinking it through fully in that moment but also two she may have just been so sure her alliance was in control that she didn't care okay I lose some social points with MC and maybe some of the others but we're going to vote them out one by one anyway so who cares but would she have been allowed to steal the keys I'm that we don't know yeah I had another question about these sort of mechanics one of which is you know people

have made fake idols right they taken their scroll and they planted fake idols. Can you can you replant the beware advantage and have a fake beware advantage or someone thinks they have to beware advantage? Then they would think that they didn't have a vote. They'd go up to the booth to be like, no, you have to vote. Like what would happen? Well, that's kind of fascinating, actually.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. My guess. Replanting the beware advantage and a fake idol. I love this next level of chicanery. I, my guess. Jeremy, you are so ready to be on the show.

show I because we haven't seen it yet in nine seasons of beware advantages my guess is it's not allowed one more question last week you have the great Heidi on and she said you got to bring your trinkets to tribal and I thought that's just good guidance that's smart thinking you never know what's going to happen yes with knowledge is power what happens if you don't so in other words, let's say R-I-Z, G-O-D-R-G-R-G-R-G-G-R-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-E-Mand-Mas-Leggbably doesn't bring his actual idol to tribal, but Sof asks him, do you have it? The answer is yes, I'll give it to you later, right?

Like, how does that work? I think, I'm not really sure because, you know, remember, Xander handed his off to another person, right? But that was literally handing it to another person, so he no longer owned it. It was actually, they could keep it. They could not, they could actually say, sorry, it's mine. Right. Yeah.

So, I'm sure they haven't thought of this. Well, I will say this. I would hope they have. Yeah, I would hope they have too, because I know when I was out there and I had the legacy advantage, I might have been told a couple of times to make sure that I brought it with me. So I'm curious if there's anything like that that's happening. where production is telling people

if they have to do certain things, which I don't think that should be happening because I do think this is a very valid point if Riz God is like, yeah, I do, but I'll check you later on that. And then she couldn't use it at that tribal. Let's say she wanted to use it and then play it at that tribal. It would be like actually, here, this is a little token.

Jeff will sort of produce stuff. Here's an IOU for you. exactly. I mean, the thing is, because he doesn't know that this is in the game right now, he has no reason not to bring it. It's a little string of beads. You know, it's not like it used to be. It's not like James and the giant plaque, not to be confused with James and the giant peach. But, you know, so, of course, he went home with those in his pockets. But the, it's so small. there's no reason not to bring it with you. So who knows?

That's a good, good question, though, because we do know that, like, who was it? It was Mike Turner buried his and then, you know, who was it that went to look for it? Someone went to look for it and then, like, lost something or couldn't remember where they reburied it or something like that. It was like, what is going on here? So, yeah.

I don't know. Look at you, Jeremy. Yeah. I feel like you have a close relationship with someone named, oh, I don't know, Sia, who might know a Jeff Probe. So perhaps message her. Be like, hey, can you clarify some things for me? Yeah.

I'll try to check it with her. I'm still trying to play it cool, you know? Yeah. Hello, see ya. And you don't want to show up, you know, at preschool with a list of things for Sophie. Oh, my gosh. I was very worried that, yeah, that she would correctly label me as an odd duck.

Yeah. And by the way, if Sophie's husband ever offers to play you Settlers of Katon for money, say no. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So he is a shark. Wow. That's a lot. And by the way, Sophie and I went to the same medical school.

I just mean, he's really good. he beat me several times when when Michelle was having the COVID online Catan tournaments I played against him found out that they lived here in Springfield Illinois for a little while and I had no idea so I could have met her too I could have run into her somewhere and nope and no idea they lived here for a short while but so all right well we should probably move on but before we do get to to how Nate did. We do want to mention that the rules we are about to discuss come in a shorter and much more colorful version in poster form. Go to Robhiswebside.com slash YX lost feed. Scroll down to the poster, click on it, and order it. In addition, you can also get the poster art on a t-shirt.

Yes. And you can get the checklist on a t-shirt. So again, you can go to rob has a website.com slash YX lost feed for all of those. Now, most players come into Survivor knowing they should understand how to make fire. But Nate came into the game as the oldest player on his tribe and had to learn that everything is fire. Not to mention cinema and vibes. He seemed to adapt to that and some even saw him as the Uli leader. Was that the main reason he was targeted? Or was there a lot more to the story of the superhero producer who was backstabbed by a supervillain that he helped to create?

At R.JP, we know Survivor and we know why Nate lost. Now, the first and most important rule is, of course, to scheme and plot, which as a superfan who even watched Australian Survivor, Nate certainly knew. He came into the game and, as we'll talk about more when we get to the fifth rule, immediately saw how different he was from others in his story. tribe. He knew he had to solidify an alliance and he got to work talking to Rizzo and connecting with Savannah and Shannon to form the necessary core four in a

six person tribe. But even within that group, Nate told Mike Bloom, he never felt he had a real number one with whom he knew he was good no matter what. He said he had, quote, three people I really, really liked. Of course,

that core was doing just fine as they knocked out or numbers of them knocked out to original Hina in their swap tribe. So they were good, at least for now. Yeah, I think that this is an interesting kind of distinction to make when you are playing Survivor because we do hear so much about who's your ride or die. Like, is there someone that you definitely want to be your number one? And if you don't actually have a number one, having three others is great.

but it can certainly affect your ability to really push harder in this game because you don't have that one person that can be the voice that you can share anything with or talk through every vote with. You have a group of people that you can certainly converse with, but within that group you're realizing you're probably number four as opposed to being someone's number one. And that can be an unfortunate moment to have because the numbers are great except they're not at the same time.

Yeah, I feel that he really had trouble making really tight bonds. He made a lot of loose connections, and he didn't, you know, I think obviously he was in a situation where they could have been a kind of peggonging situation if you wanted to. But there's something about his gameplay, and by the way, he was my favorite player. He wasn't my winner pick, but he was who I was rooting for after the first episode. And I think it's because I kind of do identify with like this on the older, side of person, like I would be on the show

at this point, who is kind of a little bit of an intellectual type. He talks about the game in sort of intellectual way. He's just a sort of, he's just sort of a, yeah, he reads, the vibes are that I would

vibe with Nate. And so therefore I feel like it would be hard for somebody like me, as it was for Nate, to truly find that number one. And I find it interesting. When older people connect with a younger person, It's often Mama Jay, you know, an older mom type, you know, and we've seen it last season where it was like the dad type, like with Joe and Eva was like a daughter. And I feel like he was leaning into this like stay at home dad thing, but he wasn't leaning into this role of I'll be the I'll be kind of the father figure, so to speak.

And people are wanting that out there. And so there's just something about the way this configuration was and it maybe goes back to what Sophie Clark was. say that there's just not enough diversity of age and types of people so that he was just sort of on the outs from the beginning. But I also just feel like he put himself at a distance with people. I always feel like he's reading them, but he wasn't opening to them in the same way. And I think that during the swap tribes is where you see that, for example. I think it's a big red flag that on the second swap, I wrote this down, he was swapped into a tribe with Alex, Christina and Sophie, Sophie, yellow, yeah, he has Sophie. And all things.

three of them voted for him the next trouble. And I think that tells you something about not being able to sort of scheme and plot enough to make connections that they would think, hey, down the road, this guy's really great. We could work with him. So I think that there was something about his connections and scheming and plotting. And it was good, but not great. And as I say, it becomes a pro is you got, you got to be great. Yeah.

Yeah, I will. Really interesting point, too. I'm sorry, Dave, I'm not trying to cut you off here. but the um he wanted to work with matt because he felt that connection with matt based upon age and matt was like we got to vote nat out so i think that really supports your position that you're making jeremy that he he had some issues connecting with people on the way that he needed to do in order to scheme a plot with those people because he clearly wanted to work with matt and then was really offended kind of that matt was like what why is you writing my name down like

i wanted to work with the guy so yeah i think that's i think that's a really really fair point for sure. Yeah. To go back to what you said about the dad thing, I will say he said in his interviews that he didn't come in intending to do that, but that they brought it up. And so he just went along with it. You know, I mean, I don't know. Maybe you're right.

Maybe he didn't lean into it. But like, I believe it was Joanne's vote that said, you know, he wrote his name and said something like dad on it or sorry dad or something dad of the. Dad of the tribe. It had the word dad on it. I remember seeing that. And so he was that role, but I don't know what that means exactly. What does it mean to be the dad of the tribe?

We'll talk later about the whole leader idea. But getting to what you were saying about how he was good, not great, that's similar to a thread that I saw too. like at the merge he wanted to pull at least sage back in and of course acted like he was pulling in joan as well and he was a bit worried about the future because he told mike bloom i knew that rizzo savanna and sophy were getting closer without me because we spent a couple days apart so then he talked to sage and found out shannon had told her about being outside the core four but he said he wanted to work with her and he said there's a chance i will need you and joan if we get down to it but here's the thing if someone told me sure we're in a solid four that you aren't in but there's a chance I might want to work

with you yeah that isn't exactly very convincing to me and I think he acknowledged that now as he told Mike Bloom I was trying to keep that relationship alive I just didn't do a good enough job to be honest and that's like

the first thing I noticed of the exact theme that you were talking about Yeah. Well, and I think his job probably is something to do with it as well because he has to be very just kind of, I think, practical and like matter of fact and the decisions that he's making with the work that he does. He doesn't have time to like waffle back and forth. It's kind of like, this is what we're doing now. If it doesn't work, we'll maybe try the next thing here. So perhaps that kind of caused him to have that approach with like, oh, this is what we're doing. And then if that doesn't work, we'll do the next thing. But for now, this is it, not understanding that the person on the receiving end might be like, wait, well, time out, wait. You just basically said that you don't need to work with us unless you need to, which in a game of Survivor certainly isn't going to build a whole lot of trust.

Yeah. Now, he also tried to work with MC, saying in interviews that he really liked her after the journey. And as he further discussed in those interviews, but which we saw none of, he tried to gain trust with her by telling her she didn't need to play her idol. But when she asked him who the target was, he lied and said Christina because, of course, he didn't want her playing the idol for the actual target, Stephen.

The problem that he didn't know about was that Sage and Joanne had already told her who the actual target was. So she knew he was lying, which kind of undercuts that whole approach of saying, I want to work with you. So another swing and a miss then. Yeah. And then going back to what you said, Jeremy, about Heena a couple days earlier.

I mean, I understand why they didn't vote for him. He had blatantly lied to them on that second swap tribe. He made up a lie that was not even convincing. And he made up the story that portrayed himself as if he wasn't really with the main group. And it wasn't his fault. Matt and Jason were voted out. But the Heena saw it right through it. as he told Dalton Ross, if that tribe had gone to tribal council, I would have been out of there so fast.

And he added, I had to justify why two Hina members went out to Hina members. So my lie was not that great. Yeah, I think that probably didn't vote too well for him in the next group. And I didn't even think about the fact that those three same people who were on that swap tribe with him were the ones that were involved in voting them out later. So, yeah, that is clearly the connections were lacking. Yeah. So I think, you know, I think, you know, took me longer, but I came to the same conclusion as you, Jeremy, that he tried. He knew what he needed to do, but he just, he kept missing.

He was good with the theory, but maybe not so much in practice. Yeah. I'm not sure how much of this goes into rule three in a way, flexibility in terms of like, is having a backup plan flexibility in goal three? It's hard at both. Yeah. Yeah, it depends, but it can be part of both. Yeah. Because I do feel like he, he sort of had one thought, which was, we're going to pogong this.

We're going to get to six. And I think that there were a lot of signs, actually, that that may not have been an ironclad enough of a plan. And he needed to make much, much deeper connections. And he kind of, like I said, he kind of attempted. And you said this, David, on that journey with MC, he starts asking her questions, like, tell me about you and he says I want to be a person about a target and and on the first swap with with sof he was sort of there was a moment where I think soap was like adopt me adopt me and she was really reaching out for I mean out of desperation but also like he talked about his

kids and she was like she was oh I'm getting chills I'm like okay people are reaching out to Nate for a connection and I think he's kind of like being thoughtful and circumspect and think, okay, this is an option. Let's think about this. It's like, no, no, no. The game is on. This is a 26-day game. There's no time.

You've got to go right in there and be like, oh, my gosh, I've been waiting my entire life to have this exact conversation. I can't believe it. Let's be together forever. You know, the same thing that will get you, that will get you ghosted after date one, gets you an alliance on Survivor. That's amazing. And true.

All right. Well, we can move into the second rule, which says not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret. Now, we've already talked about a few instances of Nate's scheming, becoming more public. But in those cases, it wasn't really his fault. You know, for example, Shannon told Sage about how Sage was outside the core group. And, of course, Sage and Joanne told MC who the real target was. So in both of those cases, Nate was not the one leaking the secret. it was his allies or for the second one those he thought was his allies it just it rebounded on him first i i don't know how you avoid this other than you know having other plans as well but if you think

you're solid and then you have you know loose lips sink ships in this case loose lips sunk Nate. I couldn't think of anything to rhyme with Nate on the, on the spur of the moment there. Well, and I think the MC component is an interesting one as well because what's the other option there, right? If you end up telling MC that who the actual vote is on because you want to try to gain her trust, but you need to gain her trust in order to know if you can trust her to move forward with her. So it's like this circular thing that like how much do you actually disclose because if she, She is just lying to you as well and just trying to pretend like she wants to work with you just to gain knowledge and find out who you are voting for. And so, yes, it puts you in a very precarious situation because it's like I want to work with you, but I also don't want to reveal too much in case your intentions are not truthful either or sincere. So I am curious what the other option would be for him in that particular circumstance.

Yeah, but he got caught in that lie, basically. And I think that is the very definition of scheming and plotting too much is that secret, he got absolutely caught by MC that this whole thing about Christina, right? That that wasn't that wasn't it. And any hope that he had from the journey or any other connection he may have had was just toast at that moment. And that's the only thing I had for him on rule too, actually, is that he was attempting to build something across that line, that tribal line. but he absolutely did not think about the fact that hey this person is getting information from other people so you need to anticipate that and say something like okay here's what you're going to be told you're going to be told by them

that it's actually going to be stephen here's why that's wrong and here's why it's actually christina i'm the one telling you the truth and hopefully she doesn't figure it out until after the vote yeah but he he acted as if this was the only conversation emcee was ever going to have with anyone else yeah and that's that violates the professional rule of people no they're having lots of conversations Yeah. All right. Well, the third rule tells players to be flexible. And Jeremy, you were asking about this rule.

So how do you think Nate did in here? So I think Nate did okay on one part of flexibility, and that is culture. He understood completely that he was the quote unquote older guy in a younger person's game. And so I just, I give the editors of Survivor, lots of flowers. for the mashup of everything being cinema and fire and the vibes are immaculate. I was dying. It was so great.

And he played it off just right. He was kind of, to us behind the cameras and confessional, he was saying, I don't know, what the hell? These people are talking about. But to them, he was, oh, yeah, what does that mean? What's a muck bang? I don't know what that is. Okay, cool.

So I thought that he was very good at showing that he could actually bond. with people who are of a different generation or who are online. He's not online at all. So I thought that was really good at show that he wasn't, a lot of people who are on the older side,

especially successful people on the older side, are very type A, like I've gotten to where I am because I know how the world works and these idiots don't know anything. No, this guy is very attentive and kind of humble, and I think that he's probably successful because he's probably good at building consensus

or keeping the temperature kind of in a good place. My feeling is he's probably the kind of person you want when shit goes bad. He's probably the kind of person who like helps people make amends and like get through problems. I get that sense of that's who he is. So I thought that was great. He showed a lot of flexibility. But again, would be great if he wasn't the only person, you know, born in the 70s on his tribe.

And, you know, I was born in the 70s. So, you know, I'm officially old. But so he did okay there. Apparently I'm officially old to them. well they made you old as soon as they put you on this on the show you know they did um yeah i i i agree you know he talked about specifically said that he he had to adapt and it just immediately reminded me and and this is in the third rule this example as rudy famously said in the beginning of the very first season i got to fit i got to fit in not them you know there's

more of them than there is of me and it seemed like Nate fit in you know as far as it went like you said culturally and and I thought that he read the room nicely he at times he said look I don't know what the hell these people are talking about so I'm going to go be useful and and go get fire firewood and a lot of players if they go to do that they can immediately get flagged as oh why is Nate on his own why is he sort of not a part of the thing he managed to actually paper that and he didn't catch any strays about that. He just decided to try to be the provider type. So I thought that showed a lot of sort of thinking on your feet in terms of being flexible.

I also, on the other hand, I do think we talked before about flexibility in terms of having more than one plan. And I think that he really did not take opportunities to think beyond the six-person red tribe, a gonging where right he had this conversation as I mentioned this conversation with Sof on the new he now and she's making the pitch and he's sort of in the receiver mode and he should have just been like oh yeah let's

this is the beginning of something new and he needed a number one I think so yeah a great number one for him or sage I think he had I think there were number one targets in this game for him that he didn't quite figure out draw on being another one by the way I will come to that later so I think that his lack of

flexibility came to not realizing that he was not on a tribe. He thought he was on a tribe that was going to peong this thing. And he didn't have a backup plan for that. And that is a big violation of this rule. Yeah. Yeah. You pretty much covered all of my notes.

Oh. So the one thing I want to add, which has absolutely nothing to do with Nate, but since we brought it up in this rule, I'm going to send another message back in time to Jawan. Jawan, please stop saying fire so much. Please, just, please. Yes, all the time.

But now here I am the old guy telling the young guy how to, you know, what to say and how to talk. So what do I know about that? Everything else I know, but not, you know. Yes, just not about when to use fire. Yes. Well, you use fire at final four, unfortunately. but oh god yeah that that fire too that can go away too if i yeah if i could get rid of all the fire

reference yes for sure for sure so jessica the fourth rule tells players not to let their emotions control them did you see any issues with nate here no he was so like even keel about everything and really worked through and he even talked about how when he got voted out he'd he wanted to like maintain his composure because his kids were watching. So this just just shows you how often he was mindful of how he was being and how he was in the space. And I do think a lot of that goes to him realizing very quickly he's out of his element, if you can even call it that as it relates to those individuals who are on the tribe with him. You know, when you come and you realize, yes, I'm 16 years older than the next oldest person that's here.

that's a big, like, thing to adjust to. And I think that he really focused so much on how he was going to be perceived that he really did try to maintain himself in a way that didn't let his emotions get in the way of the decisions. It was more of the strategy, the gaming. I think what Jeremy was just speaking to with the idea that I'm kind of locked in with the six and this begonging, that was what kind of overtook things as opposed to his. emotions. I think he really did a great job keeping, keeping everything in line. According to what he said in universe, I agree is what I was saying. You know, he would have he said he would have voted out Joanne first if the original Ooli had gone to tribal council despite liking him. And it seems he would have done the same to sage if they'd gone twice,

even though he talked about liking and wanting to work with her too. Now, this is counter to what you were saying, Jeremy, that he shouldn't have wanted to vote her out, but just for emotional reasons in that term, as far as I can tell, this rule was not a problem to him. Yeah. You know what's better than the one big thing? Two big things. Exactly. The new iPhone 17 Pro on TELUS's five-year rate plan price lock.

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So we could go to the fifth rule, which reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game. Jeremy, you've been itching to talk about this one. So jump in here. Well, first of all, as has been the case with some of the players that I have been fortunate enough to discuss on this podcast before, Nate did not need to pretend to be nice. He is a nice human being. and what I mean by that is he genuinely seems to care about people to make connections he did make these sort of attempts and I don't get the sense that he was like oh gosh I know I have to do this I think that genuinely he is just a good human being who who is

innately curious about others and is not a narcissist so this is a very nice person who again I would love to be in an alliance with but I do think that the list of the list of professions that thou shalt not be on survivor is getting uncomfortably long and and I lawyers being the first original thing you can't be a lawyer because you know that and then of course Savannah saying you can't be a you can't be a reporter because that makes you curious of course she's marketing is the thing that she does now that's the thing that seems to be scary if anything we've learned that and can't be a sales person right no no no no You can't be in finance because that makes you a sociopath, apparently.

Yes. Yes. And, but in this case, I just think that the Mike White of it all is so important here. Mike White, to quote, again, our friend Christian Hebecky, played a transformative game. And part of that was absolutely owning who he was and being so authentic that it worked in the sense of everyone who love this guy. They wanted to be his friend. They also were threatened by him because they thought there's no way this guy needs the money. I think that Nate as a superfan should have seen that he could be a sort of reboot of Mike White.

Now, granted, they are very different personnel. There's a lot that they don't share in common. But in terms of just I'm a successful human being. And the survivor casting crew and Jeff put Nate on a tribe with a Marvel universe encyclopedia of nerds. and he was like I'm just going to pretend like I didn't invent that stuff that I didn't have a lot to do with some of your favorite movies of all time

I and he's said in the interviews that he regrets this but I just want to say be yourself out there because what it does is it allows you to connect authentically with people and in this case more than that I mean he would have had people lining up Mike White is still putting people on the White Lotus from years ago and it's probably unfair.

It's an unfair advantage. But I think that he made a massive mistake in this idea of sort of this rule by I think that playing the social game and pretending to be nice, I asked David, you know, what rule is that? And he said it's kind of five. So, you know, I think that that authenticity is a big deal. And I do believe that Nate could have had a really, really wonderful connection with Joanne that he didn't have even with Jason we saw that sort of

we didn't get to see that and and Riz Riz got RG the man the myth legend maybe he's also a huge Marvel guy okay well I think Stephen too yeah Stephen right

I mean this is unbelievable what they did they did this on purpose clearly yes he's like I'm a stay at home dad and they're like that's cool bye yeah yeah and And, you know, like you said, he agreed in interviews that, yeah, that was probably a mistake. But it's, it's like a classic because he said the things that we have talked about on this podcast.

And not just us, others too, but where he said that he had to avoid talking about his life because he was avoiding talking about his job. And so many of his best stories were related to his job. So he couldn't talk about that. that he couldn't talk about like like he did his interview with rob from some location we don't know where but he was apparently on location somewhere well i'm sure he's been on location in a number of very cool places which he couldn't talk about right and you know all these things and yeah he could have just been like oh i worked on that what do you want to know oh yeah i worked on that what do you want to know i want to know what the other players think one of my favorite

in Survivor history is when Sarah says to Tony, are you a cop? I just thought that was the best read. I was like, oh, my God. And that was so awesome. And I love those reads. And I wonder if you're sitting there with Nate and you're looking at this guy, he is a guy who reads again as somebody important. He's kind of healthy looking.

He speaks like someone who went to an Ivy League college. he just he's he's he's not online he's more of a kind of cerebral type do they really think this guy like what do they think he did he said oh right now i'm a stay-at-home dad well what were you before and and oh i was production assistant you believe that this guy who probably drops like five dollar words i mean they didn't they didn't play that up too much but he probably does you know throw in you know those because that's who he is they're sitting around being like yeah that's cool he's just he's look being a stay-at-home parent isn't absolutely incredible job, but I just, I don't think that other players would clock that as completely his

whole story. And I'm wondering what they think his deal was. Well, yeah, because even Matt got that question, uh, from Savannah. Like, what did you do before you worked at the airport? Right, right. You know, so I got to think that she asked him. And yeah, he must have had some generic, you know, I did something in the movies. I, you know, did something minor. But, Yeah, he's not going to, he's not going to get the same bing for his buck there. And the thing is, you know, we discussed it in the third rule that there was this generation gap. And it, he knew he was playing into it. He knew he was, as he said, you know, climbing a hill because anytime you're more different,

whether it's age, ethnicity, gender, as he said, and other. if you're an other you have to go uphill and no one else had kids no one else was married and that's when he he talked about well you know he played up the dad role at that point but but then you had this opportunity you had this ability where you wouldn't be the other anymore you'd be one of the marvel nerds along with the other one you'd be like the king of The Marvel nerds. Yeah. You have to figure out, too, like in a moment like this, what is going to ingratiate you into this group, right?

And that's one thing that we've talked a lot about on this podcast is everyone kind of comes into Survivor with an idea of how they want to play. And then you realize, well, these are the people I'm playing the game with and I might need to tweak or change some of the plans that I had for myself. I don't think going on to Survivor and talking about being a lawyer is necessarily going to ingratiate you with the group because it's it's that type of perfection that people have kind of pegged a particular way, right? I think being a producer of movies, Marvel movies, no less, and you're part of this group of young individuals, that's probably going to make them take interest in you more so than, as you said, being a stay-at-home dead. So I think it really does depend on the circumstances. And there's not like a checklist of jobs. They're just like going to be like, that's a bad idea.

Don't talk about that. We've seen some people talk about being public defenders and doing quite well. So I guess it really does depend on the group that you're with and how you want to connect with them. And if you think that that thing is going to help you connect, well, then perhaps you need to change. I feel now there was three of us on my tribe. There were all not being forthcoming about what we did. And it turns out we were all in basically the same profession. I mean, Brett was a police officer.

I'm a prosecutor. And then we had another attorney on the tribe. And it's like, damn it. We kind of missed out on that. But again, you don't know that because everyone is not being completely forthcoming with who they are. But if it is something that's going to help you connect. with those around you, it really does come down to like a game time decision like, no, I need to change my plan on this one and how I wanted to approach it. I have a new theory. My theory is

that if he had told them the truth, he would have heard the word fire. That's fire. So many times that he would have actually wanted to leave. And so he was like, you know what, if I tell them the truth, everything will be fire and cinema, and I can't handle this. I'm just going to commit to the bit. and therefore he actually did violate rule four he did let his emotions get in the way we've gone back I love this he would have he would have kept hearing that cinema and he would have been like yes it is that's what I'm telling you

it actually is cinema I'm in the pictures you're here yeah all right well we could go to the sixth row which warrants against being too much of a threat now Jessica last week when I made my prediction the main reason I did it was I as I said Nate has been seen as the leader of the

pack in some ways. So did this or anything else make him a bigger threat? I know. I think what it really boils down to it's like you want to cut off the head of the snake but you can't do that yet so then you have to like where's the next one in line

right? Even though he was seeing as kind of like the leader he wasn't the leader if that makes sense. Like they kept talking about Rizzo and Savannah and how they were the most threatening because they seemed to be more in control. But Nate was like that quiet kind of like bring everyone together person. And I think that while that can seem threatening on some levels, I don't think that they

were looking at him as being a threat. It was more of a, he's a great backup plan because we don't think that the other two are as connected to him as they all feel like they are. So they're not going to necessarily save him. So I think that he was just kind of weird, like almost in the middle as far as like a threat level is concerned because he had the connections, but he didn't have the buy-in that he necessarily needed from those people he had the connections with that the other people were so concerned about his continued like playing the game as opposed to like Rizzo and

Savannah where they're like, oh, God. they have an idol they're going to use it they weren't worried about neat doing that and so i'm not sure what just happened i don't know we lost jeremy but there he's back he's back so um so yeah Nate Nate told mike bloom that he didn't see himself as the leader but he also added he felt like the leader to other people and you know he he said he said i know Alex has said even on Uli, hey, you're a beast out there. I think everybody perceived because I was in the challenges a lot,

I was leading. And I don't know that that was true. But of course, what do we always say here? Perception is reality out there. If the other players see you as a leader, that's what matters. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I think that I agree with Jessica, you said that he was like the sort of middle threat. And that was sort of in a way that made him kind of vulnerable right because he wasn't like they're like oh they won't use an idol on him right that was sort of right right this this vaguely reminded me of a of a very much less dramatic version of the david versus goliath vote out of john henigan

remember when they all they're always idols are going every which way but then two come up for john john had you know i'm talking about the george bushy of tushy right that guy Remember that? Yes. I just, yeah. And the whole point of what the, what the David's did there was they got together, they shared all their information with each other, and they figured out, wait a minute, all these things are going to block each other out.

But also these two votes or three votes are going to go for someone who we really don't think is going to be thought of as the target. And so I think that Nate was sort of, yeah, this is hard to play against this. I don't know what Nate would have done. but he was in the situation where basically because of where his threat level was, he was someone who could be seen as, well, they're not going to play the idol on him. So that kind of works. I do actually think, interestingly enough, David, did you say this, that Matt had pegged him

or somebody had pegged him as the ringleader, even though that's kind of not true. I don't really think he was. Well, I mean, Matt had said it early on. Yeah. As soon as he got there, like he decided that. Alex said it or made some comments about it. I think it was a general idea that he seemed to be a leader. Now, part of it may just be the things we've already been talking about.

He's older. He, like you said, he speaks like an Ivy League graduate. He uses the $5 words. He has a very, I think he has a calm demeanor. You know, so I think he kind of, in the chaos of survivor, I think he was like a steady presence, which makes you seem like a, leader. You know, so how much of it did this play?

I mean, we saw the discussions about whom to target. We didn't see the final one. If I had to guess, I would say this was one part of the overall equation, but not the main reason he was targeted. And I think you two have hit on, you know, one of the main reasons. By the way, I noticed that there was a scene where on the Jason versus Jawan vote, was just Jason, where Savannah and Nate were kind of coming together about who they should, who it should be.

And there was, it was kind of interesting. It was the opposite of a power struggle. Both of them were basically trying to make sure the other person felt control. And one of the things that I think is underrated about Savannah's game right now is, is people always say, I'm the puppet master. Actually, you know, a lot of times I think that she has that ability. And in that, in that example, they both were. sort of like, oh, no, you decide.

Oh, no, you decide. And so I thought that he was managing that really well, although I think she did it even better. So I think he was very sensitive about his threat level. And he, even at one point, mentioned that he is strong on the challenges. But again, I think that

you know, he was in that sort of reverse Goldilocks situation where he wasn't a challenge beast or anything, but he was seen, I think, but he was good at the challenges, but no one really raised that as like an issue. So I think that, again, I think he managed this pretty well. Yeah. But to the Mike White of it, though, I mean, like, again, reversing like, oh, if I tell him the truth, would that be too much of a threat? And I would say, no, actually, it would be like, you'd be kind of the person who they like to bring far along and then not give the million to. Right. Well, I think that was his worry. I don't think he thought he'd be knocked out early. If he told him, he thought he would, you know, get to the end and not get the million. So. In that way, he's to win, which I, which I can respect.

Yeah, but also, you know, I mean, I know he watched all the seasons and everything else. I don't know how much of the true ins and outs he knows, but it is highly rumored that Mike essentially said, I don't need the money, give it to Nick, in that final tribal council. You know, maybe not in those words, but like Mike did not, at least by the end of it, was not pushing as hard, apparently, as he could have been. And so if Nate knew that, well, then maybe he would have, you know, done a little differently. And I'm, I'm sure that's a decision that Mike regrets to this day. And why hasn't John Hedigan been on the White Lotus? Hello? Yeah. There hasn't been call for that particular type, I guess.

No, no, there was some pretty buff dudes in the last season. I have not watched. I started watching season one, and I literally hated every character, except for the one who dies in the first episode. And I was like, why am I watching this? There's literally no one on here I like. So can I say one other totally random nerdy thing? And this is just like, hey, if you agree with me and you ever run into me at like a survivor

event, just like, you know, give me like this, like, make some kind of like hand gesture, like a thumbs up or something. I noticed that a couple episodes ago, the Survivor music on a couple of occasions was mimicking some of the musical choices of White Lotus. And it was, I don't think it's happened every episode, but when they were sort of scheming and plotting, there was a little bit of this like sort of open sonority that they're called fits in music where they were a little out of tune. And I'm like, oh, that's White Lotus stuff. and I was wondering if the Survivor music people are letting it go full circle. So Survivor made White Lotus kind of sparkle.

And now they can Survivor sparkle a little bit. Oh, interesting. Experimenting in advance of next season to fully change the music to White Lotus. Right. So. All right. Well, the seventh rule covers idols and advantages in game mechanics. And of course, we know Nate didn't have an idol of his own, but his ally, Rizzo did.

and we saw Rizzo promised to play it for any of them because of course he was being honest about that. Now, I obviously say that facetiously, but according to Nate's interviews, Rizzo did offer to play it with him. Whether he would have or not is another matter because according to the way Nate described it, Rizzo said he'd do it if he felt it.

I doubt he would have felt it in this tribal council. they all seemed pretty darn shocked. Still, even that possibility was shut down when Nate, in his own words to Dalton Ross, very dumbly was like, don't do that, man, you got to save it for yourself. And so, yeah, I can't really add much to how Nate described it. Yeah, I mean, I guess we could also talk about how he was in the journey as much as I'm not too keen on the journeys themselves, but the way that he handled that with MC, I think really shows how he was working through the game and allowing the game to enter into like the decisions made as

part of the journey, which we've seen people attempt to do, but I think he was very successful in it because it stopped them from like losing their vote and it didn't negatively impact either of them in any way besides having to lift so many sandbags and being exhausted and having to get through that growing challenge. I do think that we can recognize him in this rule for that particular part. And also, he didn't even want to go on the journey. He went to stop someone else from going. So that's another like game level there as well where he was like, okay, I'm thinking about

game as opposed to myself. That person can't go. I've got to go and then figured out how to make it work for each of them in a positive way. Yeah, I had the same note. And I also wanted to follow up on this question of the Riz Idol. Do we know, and I'm sorry if this was very obvious and my brain just isn't functioning, do we know who the original Uli's thought the votes were going to be going towards on their side? Like, who did Savannah think that, say, MC was going to vote for?

Well, Nate had told, Nate said in interviews that he had said it would, they would be coming towards him or Savannah. so that's why he reacts very matter-of-factly when the first what is it four or five votes come up that way and so it wasn't until that sixth one that he was like oh this is a problem well six is it's over pal um yeah well the um the that that's interesting because he did also say that he wasn't entirely sure that joan and sage were with them he actually said that in the interviews which to me which to me says uh oh wait a minute um why if he should have brought that back to Savannah and Rizzo and said, hey, we might not have Jawan and Sage. Why don't we use the idol? And it probably would have gone either to him or to Savannah. I'm not sure that it would have been played on him.

But that's my only thought is if he knew that, he should have convinced Riz that this is the moment, pal. Yeah, I think there's a little bit of 2020 hindsight in his interviews where he says that. Because like through the internet, interviews, he says, well, I was slightly suspicious. But then in other parts of the interviews, he says he believed they were with him. So I think he may have had a small suspicion, but not enough to change it. And, you know, maybe whatever small suspicion there was kind of grew after the fact and he knew what had happened. I have one other question about idols and mechanics,

which is that we have often heard. that the scramble can be very scramble and that sometimes the plan that gets executed at tribal is not necessarily the best plan that could have happened but it's just sort of that's it's the musical chairs it's oh the sun went down when that was the plan whereas if if the sun went down 10 minutes later it would have been another plan do we think that this mechanic of the post challenge loss unlocking the beware advantage is meant to make that less scrambly? I don't know.

I don't think so because I think Jeff likes it when there's a scramble going on. He even said in the on-fire podcast this week, you know, I mean, he said this before, but he said, yeah, you know, they love it when they see them going back and forth, going back and forth. And sometimes the on-site producers will be like, hey, we need to hold off coming to tribal council for another 10, 15 minutes because they're still going at it. So. Yeah.

which I'm not sure I agree that that's something they should do I think that there probably should be a drop dead time but hey they're the one yeah it's it's not as unfair or bad as some things they've done that I've complained about before so so yeah yeah it's interesting that is an interesting idea though like how much can you add into the game that then can have a potentially like drastic effect on where the vote is eventually going to go so close in time to when the vote is actually going to be happening. Right. Right. Yeah. Maybe we should go back to a 39 day game. I mean, still, even in then,

Tony would wait until the sun was going down. He knew how to time it. He pulled off on making his plans. And then as soon as he saw the sun at a specific point, He's like, now is when I have to go. You know, so you can game anything. Even if you have all the time in the world, you can game it. Right.

And that's, but that's Tony's choice, right? That's his decision. Whereas if you've got production putting in this now, beware, advantage thing, we have to find a million keys and open a box. That's a production thing as opposed to necessarily just a player figuring out how to game it. Yeah. I mean, she seemed to have plenty of time. even with that huge key ring,

she seemed to have plenty of time. I mean, it didn't seem like she was in a huge rush, like running back as soon as it happened. I think they were all. Right. But I think the issue really turns into, it's one thing to be like,

oh my gosh, I might be going home tonight. I'm going to go out and just start scouring, looking for an idol. But it's another thing where the only time that she could have looked for it is at this, particular moment in the game like they had to come back from the challenge and then this was the only opportunity so it that does make it feel a little bit different because it's not the

player deciding this is something I have to do and she could have just said well I'm not going to but then if she doesn't she doesn't have a vote so again it's like she's losing the ability to necessarily make that choice for the game yeah I actually now that I think about it she was doing this while the winning side was having their so it was actually the perfect time for her if she had had to do it at any other time if she had been the winner of the merge feast

if it had happened if her tribe had lost previously she would have had much less time she had all the time in the world when it happened to you know occur for her right all right well we could move to appendix A which

discusses players keeping their end goals in mind when voting, and we talk about voting out the weak, then the strong, then the weak than the strong. At this merge portion of the game, you typically want to get out someone who is strong on the opposing side. And I think it's clear that the Hina Plus Alliance did that. Just not specifically for that reason. Because, you know, we talked about earlier that Nate being seen as the leader was probably not at all the main reason, just maybe a best one part of the equation. And there were indeed several other factors because you two already talked about this. Rizzo had the idol. And it was pointed out by a couple people like Christina I know pointed it out. And I think Stephen did too that if he

played it for anyone, it would be Savannah. So in their minds, that eliminates two people. Because as Christina said, we don't want to risk losing one of our numbers because we didn't read the situation right and that as you said made nate the safest option and like i said stephen later repeated this and since they knew he was the target i suspect i'm sorry they they all knew that stephen was the target on the heena plus alliance so i if i had to guess i'm sure stephen was like uh let's really push for the safe route you know let's not gamble because I'm the one whose game life is being gambled with here.

So stage really, really wanted Savannah out. But Stephen's like, I'm sure, hey, if we don't, if we're wrong, I'm gone. There is no second option here. So let's get the sure vote,

or as sure as you can be in Survivor. Let's get the sure vote. And then we'll come back to Savannah later. Right. I think Nate, I'm looking at his votes. He voted three times. He voted for Matt and Jason back to back. I think that's pretty much the weak part of it, saying, look, we're in this pre-merged game.

Let's weaken the other side in a way. I know that you can interpret the weak and the strong in many ways. But in my version of this interpretation, that's a time to win the Hina Uli War. So I thought that that was smart. And then his last vote is Stephen, which I think is also. a good following of this rule. Stephen, I think, is probably the person on original Hina, who has the most sort of ties across lines,

probably the most sort of well-known and liked quantity, at least as far as the edit is concerned. I still don't even know who Sophie is. Otherwise, you want immunities. That's good. But so, yeah, I thought that he was, I think he was thinking correctly in that way, but I'm not sure that he was thinking about

other people thinking about that. that, and then you get into the, uh, you get into the, uh, you get into the princess bride of it all. I know that you know that I know. So that's not fair for me to, to sit here and judge that because it's a little bit too complicated. Yeah. Well, and that is the question here is, did they make the right decision in taking out Nate? You know, I, so starting with Joanne and Sage specifically, Nate told Mike Bloom, he wasn't 100% sure they were with him, as we talked about. And, but his pitch was, stick with us, we are six strong, you're guaranteed final six,

and it doesn't make sense to flip because then you're in seven and you're in a seven alliance and a lot of different alliances. So he was still saying, this is his quote. So purely logically, to me, it seemed to make sense that they would stay with us. I have to completely disagree with Nate's logic. it does not make sense to go with a guaranteed six when you know there is a super tight four within that six you're basically just saying okay i'll take six or fifth place thanks for having me but you go with an alliance of seven that is as he said a lot of different mini alliances it gives more of a chance to shuffle the deck they're tight with stephen Alex is a wild card they're more likely to be able to move around and they have the potential to get further than fifth. Sure, they might get voted off sooner, but they have the potential to get further.

Yeah. What do you make of the fact that Alex and Sof did not vote together here? I think that they, you know, stuck with their people from their swap tribes. You know, I think that a tribe of two. does not help you in the numbers game until it gets much smaller or you happen to be the absolute swing votes. And Sophie was adopted.

You know, you've talked about it and they talked about it on the show. She's not flipping against them. Yeah. Yeah. And Alex has been someone who is trying to find that like middle place. And I do think that he's feeling very comfortable in that position currently.

And so I think he probably views this as keeping more options open for myself because I'm not committing to, as you've already mentioned, David, you know, this core group of four that's adopted Sophie because obviously Sophie's going to come before me. And so I think for Alex, it gave him more of an opportunity to maneuver and find a better place to end up as opposed to a definite like six or fifth. Let me ask one more question about the Jawan Sage kind of flip. Do we think, that the Hawthorne effect is in play here. The Hawthorne effect is that when people know they're being observed,

they act differently. And by that, I mean, Jeff just said, oh, by the way, Survivor 50 slots are open. Yes. I don't think, now I raged against this online in my own videos

that Jeff should not have said this. But in this case, I think that Sage and Joanne, they already had this plan before the merch. Sage, Joanne, and Stephen, they came up with this whole, you know, complicated plan. So they were not doing it because of what Jeff said. And so I do think it's, you know, funny that they actually did make the bigger move, what he would consider the big move.

But they did it for good reasons, not for Jeff reasons. I think other players might have been doing. or suffering from the Hawthorne effected that was what it was called. Yes, I do think that there is a very strong likelihood that that affected some people's gameplay. Yeah. But right there, you know, Stephen and Jawan, they might have voted for Savannah if they thought that they could be in the next Marvel comic universe movie. Well, right. So I just honestly, you know, it just comes back to that.

Exactly. Back to Marvel. It's all about Marvel. But speaking of Stephen and the rest of the Hina Plus Alliance, Stephen Fishback made a decent case on No Adols for why they should have taken out Rizzo. Because he was unlikely to use his idol since he believed that his group was in the majority. The problem is that assumes the Hina Plus Sage and Joanne were 100% certain that they're trick worked. When Stephen, there's too many Stevens, when Stephen Fishback said that they should

have gone after Rizzo, that kind of assumes a, like an omniscience. Like, we know that the trick worked, therefore we can go after Rizzo. Yeah. But if someone sniffed it out, if anyone on Oolie sniffed it out and used the idol, then Stephen in the game was a goner. And you know, you brought this up already, Jeremy, and you say it frequently. These are professional players. They are all smart enough to know that if you think someone is, something is a secret. That doesn't mean it's actually a secret. Yeah.

Shannon thought it was a secret that she was pushing to vote out Sage and then Joanne. No. Matt thought it was a secret that he wanted Nate out. No, and so on. Secrets are often found out one way or another. In this case, it wasn't. But why take the risk? It's 20-20 hindsight to say, oh, they knew that Rizzo wasn't going to play the idol because he was certain.

No, they didn't know that. They probably believed it, but they didn't know it. And again, especially if you're Stephen in this season, it goes back to it's his life in the game. Why take any risk at all? even if it's a 2% risk versus a 0% risk. Why take it? Yeah, safe route. Mm-hmm.

So, all right, well, with that, it is about time to wrap things up. So, Jeremy, what are your final thoughts on Nick? I'm sad to see Nate go because I was rooting for him. And I will someday see a Marvel comic universe movie. because i think i've probably seen zero i know yeah jessica's always asking how do what do i my life is so crazy and i'm like yeah and it comes at the expense of i don't see movies okay i do watch survivor though and i'm not giving it up okay okay yeah so uh yeah but i really enjoy enjoyed nate as a as a person on the show he he made me think okay somebody like me can play this game

we always hear that and i'm saying that kind of an unexpected way maybe I look at someone like Nate and I think, I'm a dad in my 40s, like, who doesn't, who didn't know what cinema meant in terms of the slang and who now knows what a muckbang is. Yes, I too can go play Survivor. So, so Nate, thank you for giving me the permission to send my video in. I think that he was, unfortunately, for the stage of game that we are in, the meta of this game, he was a very good player. And to win Survivor in these times, you cannot be very good. you have to be extraordinarily good. You have to be outstanding and excellent.

And so I think that he was to go through the rules, okay in terms of scheming and plotting, making alliances, but not great at it. And there were moments where he managed his threat level, but he didn't see where the threats were coming from. So I just think he kind of like, he kind of got B pluses throughout the game where you need A's. And but I think ultimately the one thing that could have elevated his game

to the A level. was actually a choice that he made, which was to not be fully authentically himself. He, therefore, that was the ceiling. He couldn't get into the A range because he put that ceiling on his game by not being authentic to make those kinds of connections, and therefore he would know where things were happening.

He'd have more of a sense of where things were headed. And I think that there are a lot of younger people out there. When they go out there, they miss home. and they missed their families. And so he's a stay-at-home dad. He should have leaned into being a father figure for these people on Survivor instead of a nice guy to play the game with. And I think that's why Nate lost.

You're muted. Got you this time. I was going to say, so it's Marvel's fault. So he should have just told everybody, I feel for Nate so much because I do think that one of the most difficult parts of playing Survivor is how can you authentically be yourself in a game that is full of lies and deceit? And so you do have to try to find that balance. And unfortunately, Nate really had a superpower. He was coming in with like this, I am Marvel, really, to the individuals who are surrounding me.

and I'm curious because I don't know this as I sit here. Did they talk about Marvel in front of him? Did they talk about how much they loved Marvel? So they're like giving him like, please, like this is what we're into and this is what we'd like to hear about. And you have the golden ticket where you'd be like, well, guess what? I mean, not for nothing, but I might have just been the producer on that particular movie. And I can tell you all types of things.

But Nate, I think, is someone who is so, like, kind of structured in how he perceives his space and how he perceives what needs to be done, which probably stems back to the work that he does, that he was kind of locked into this idea. I'm going to be logical and I'm going to look at this from a logical perspective. I will do what I need to do in order to try to fit in. However, I have four. There's four of us. So it's fine. This is fine. I don't need to connect with anyone necessarily as close as he is now realizing, as you've mentioned, David, hindsight is 20-20.

You need to have that ride or die. You need to have that connection. Four is great, but two within the four is even better, and he didn't have that. And so, unfortunately, I think that Nate found himself in a tough place with everyone that he was playing the game with because he was not being authentically himself. but then he also wanted to play this game in a logical fashion that just wasn't going to work with this particular group of people. But he truly is a man after my own heart. He said at the beginning of this before the game even started, that advantages bring more harm than good.

So thank you, Nate, for putting that out there into the survivor universe as well, because there are too many advantages, unfortunately, and I won't go on a soapbox about that. My dogs are now fighting behind me, but that's my thoughts on Nate. Nate, listen, Marvel's fantastic. And, I mean, if you're looking for a Mike White type of world, you could call me, I'll be in a Marvel movie. It's great. Like, we can make this happen.

Bring Jeremy. Jeremy would love it too. He's never watched a Marvel movie, but he can be in one. I know David's going to blow us out of the water. What you said to think about him, I wanted to throw something else about him, which is that, first of all, I think he's going to be a great mayor of Ponderosa. I think he's going to be a great story. I'm very happy to see how that develops.

I also think that there are a few people who I think would enjoy the vacation to Ponderosa more than he is about than he, than he would. I think he has as a working dad with kids of that age and the kind of career that I think he has, I'm sure he really needed that little vacation. So I'm kind of glad for that. So sometimes getting away from the family is kind of a nice thing.

I'm happy about that for him. I don't recommend, by the way, any future players try to miss the birth of their child. I don't think that's the wise move. You know, Jake, I'm glad that he was, I'm glad that the snake fate let him go home. But yes, I do think that I did have this picture of Nate like in the pool at Pondy. And I, and that, you know what, that made me happy. Well, as I said earlier, you know, as both of you have said, I like Nate. He was a viewer from the beginning.

He knew what he was doing. Unfortunately for him, other players knew what they were doing too. And more importantly, they knew what he and his three core allies were doing. Huge credit goes to Sage and Joanne and Stephen for creating and selling their story. They outplayed all of their former so-called allies. And they clearly sold it. Even though Nate said he wasn't 100% sure, he was close. He made his case to Sage, but by his own admission, it wasn't enough,

especially since she knew she'd been on the outs previously. We know how she feels about people who have been untrustworthy, and I don't blame her a bit. Plus, while he felt it was logical for Sage and Joanne to stay with the Uli, as I explained it, it really just was not. I mentioned a couple times that there were many pieces of the overall equation. The most important was probably that he was seen as the safe option with the others contributing somewhat. There's a lot to be said for being the easy choice. but there were other possibilities as well like even Sophie with an eye

but I'm sure Alex would not have gone along with that we talked about Alex and Sophie a little bit yeah they voted separately but I don't think Alex was gonna vote her out to hold together an alliance sometimes you have to settle on the one person everyone can agree on and with all those factors in play

he was that one as we discussed in rule one a theme was that Nate knew what he needed to do in terms of scheming and working with people outside his core group, but he couldn't pull it off in practice. If this were one of his movies, I'm sure his character would overcome this and convince someone to work with him just in the nick of time so that they could become the heroes of the story. But while we are in a realm where there are often heroes and villains, this is reality TV, not a superhero movie. So nobody swooped in to save him. And that is why

they lost. It all comes back to Marvel. Yes. I should, I should look into that. Marvel? Yeah. They have a movie or two.

They have a movie or two. Just a couple. I mean, it's the really, I'm sure you Google it. Yeah. Yeah. They look very cinema.

Yeah. I actually used to own Marvel stock when it was in the dumps. I sold it. I, I made a small, small profit on it. But I got rid of it because it was in the dumps.

It was terrible. It was junk stock for a while. And then the movies started. And so, you know, yeah. Now, before we get to our predictions for next episode, I want to mention that next week we are definitely not pissed to have another returning guest, Liz Wilcox. And we want to remind everyone that.

the rules we just discussed are, of course, available in poster form and poster on a t-shirt form and checklist on a t-shirt form. So you can go to rob has a website.com slash y-X lost feed, of course, to get that. Now, we've talked about, Jeremy, where you are in all these different things. what is the best way to find you everywhere well thank you again for having me it's an honor to be

on the 10 year anniversary season of why blank loss with you amazing people Jessica and David congratulations and your alliance may it flourish forever and may my three year old make an alliance

with Sophie's kid and take over the school love that that's great I I think probably the best way to follow me would be, well, I have a newsletter called Inside Medicine on Substack, and that's where I write about just what's going on in the world of medicine and public health in a way that I think the public can understand and maybe get a better idea of what's really happening. I am on Instagram at Jeremy Samuel Faust, where I am more likely to post a little bit of survivor content from time to time than I am. I do harbor fantasies of doing a survivor-only blog once in a while on my newsletter. like anytime there's anything medical maybe I'll throw in a thing I should do that

yeah but but so far I have not I have not done that although I did interview Shahn that was really fun so but yeah the best place is inside medicine on substack or at Jeremy Sam Milfausst on Instagram or threads and I'm on blue sky but I can't remember what my username is I think you're Jeremy Faust MD or something like that I don't know but in any case or or or just you know I'm on why blank loss once a year which is really wonderful. Once a season so far. Once a season, yes, I love it.

Between legends, by the way. Between legends. Like, I can't believe it's like Heidi and Cassidy and then Liz. It's like, wow. Now, everyone enjoys you very much. I think you do great. Yeah, you're very enjoyable. I am at Jessica Lewis,

89, on blue sky and also on X or that thing that used to be called Twitter. I'm also at Jessica Lewis, 6-789 on Instagram, but I spend very little time, honestly, posting on social media as of late. However, the gentleman who joins me every week on this podcast, one, David Bloomberg, is very much a social media guru and has a link tree that allows you to find all of the locations of his numerous content that he creates so much every single day. So why don't you explain to them what

your link tree is all about there, David? Well, you can find, yeah, it's at link tree slash David Bloomberg. You can find all of my various accounts and important links there. I'm of course on Blue Sky as at David Bloomberg, where I encourage people to join us on Blue Sky. And I mean, we already found out it will get you invited to Norway. So, you know, right? I mean, my gosh. A good benefit of being on Blue Sky. In addition, of course, I post my reality TV videos. I've been posting two or three per day, every day on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram, where I'm at David Bloomberg TV. Most of them are, of course, about Survivor 49, plus some from Celebrity Traders,

UK, which just ended. And the Traders Canada, season three, which is just revving up and has a couple of former survivor players on it. I'm also co-hosting the Tradar podcast for the Traders Canada with those three episodes out so far. Plus, I was just on the radar for discussion of the Celebrity Traders UK finale, which we recorded a few hours before recording this podcast. And there will be one more kind of a post finale Q&A after that.

So, it is time for predictions. And even though I have gotten five in a row that Jeremy's trying to hide, you should just left your camera off with whatever was happening there. That would have done it. But the, this one, I am way less confident in

what will happen than I was last time. I mean, well, I mean, obviously I knew it was going to be Nate and that's why I picked him. I was confident the whole time. We were confident the whole time. Yeah. So here's what I see. The preview tells us

Savannah is coming with a vengeance. You know, Sage says Savannah can be a mean girl. Jawan calls her a savage. All of which tells me, according to Hubicki's law, that Savannah is 100% safe. Mm-hmm. Unless, like, Sophie with an eye takes the idol, which I doubt.

And, you know, so because I doubt that Rizzo has his idol, which makes him nearly 100% safe. So this poses a quandary. The new majority could try to blindside Sophie with an eye such that she doesn't know she needs to take Rizzo's idol. But I worry that Alex would warn her. Not that he knows she has it, but even just to play, you know, hey, you may want to play your shot in the dark. But that led me to a reverse idea that the he, Hina Plus Alliance will decide they want to fake out going after Rizzo.

So he plays his idol, but they actually go after Sophie. But then Alex would balk at that, causing others in the Hina Plus Alliance to realize how much he's been playing both sides. He's not dedicated to them. And that makes me think he will do this. It will be a mistake. And they will end up flipping on him to take out. Alex instead. Wow.

That's a whole lot of things happening. Yeah, it is. It is. Um, Jeremy, I have no idea. I honestly have no clue. Do you have any idea,

like who you think is going to actually? I am delaying because I just, I don't like any of it. I got to go. See you later. Bye. Oh, gosh. Okay.

I, I, I, I, similarly to David, the best way I can think of a prediction here is through various machinations, a cognitive Rube Goldberg, if you will. Yeah. That all leads to something unexpected. I have a feeling that it will, that it will not be a pegging from here on out where all of a sudden the people who were left out of this last vote, which is Rizzo, Savannah, and Sof, who are. left. I don't think they are going to be obliterated in the next three. I just don't see that happening. I don't think that's how the game has developed. I think that what David said is something that I was thinking, which is that something about Sof and Alex coming together to trade information such that an idol is played. And I think that that's what's going to happen. I think that Alex is going to

tell Sof who they're going for and it'll sort of be one of those moments like where Jam Jam and Crew like kind of play both sides but no one knew it and so Alex and Sof will quietly know that they are sort of intentionally getting someone off of the old Heena Plus Alliance to go so Rizzo will play his his idol maybe on himself or whoever and they will knock out someone in the Heena Plus Alliance and I think that that person they knock out will be MC because of the idol and strength that MC has shown in the game. You know what? I didn't even think about it that way.

And yeah, that's... If I'm right, I will be floor because I suck at predictions die heaven. I always say have a bad sense of direction because if it's a 50-50 chance, I will take the wrong one more than 50% of the time. And the same thing is true of my predictions, kind of like Jessica's winner pick, If I make it, yeah, I know. Yeah, you're in a picture, no good, but my weekly predictions, if there's a one in six chance of somehow I just can't get it.

Well, listen, Jeremy, I love what you predicted, though. I think this makes a lot of sense. I like it. But I think I'm going to go along with what Jeremy said is how we get there, because I do think that there is going to be, we've heard so much about Sophie in, like every confessional at this, point that I haven't told anybody about my knowledge is power and I have the knowledge of power and so I feel like there's a reason why we're continuing to see so much of that and

and I do think that it's going to turn into this like blind side kind of moment but I go back to who is the one person that Savannah has really been very unhappy with throughout the entire season. You just want to try to predict. You're trying to will it into existence because my winner pick. And then they can nerd out at Ponderosa. Yes.

Let's let Juana go to Ponderosa and hang out with Nate and they can talk about Marvel and maybe Juwan can work on that cameo spot again and he can apologize for what he did because I just, I feel like there's, there has to be something I mean, we saw it now, right?

Like we did see it kind of come together. but we've seen so much in the what's going to happen next week where it's savannah versus sage and i think that there is there's going to be like there's going to be backlash against joan too because he was part of that as well so it's not like he's going to walk away unscathed so i feel like it's going to be juan i love that because actually i i do rewatch everything for this podcast right i go through and i and thank god for the tribal colors so that i can go just to the scene with the colors or the person that got voted out. And, oh my goodness, does Savannah not like Joanne?

Yes, right. You almost forget it. You almost forget this fact. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's not banned. See, I was thinking, yeah, it's interesting because your idea, Jeremy, has fewer machinations than mine, which makes it more likely, of course.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I, I'm going to have to think about this one. I might get... Did he flip you? Not officially here, but by the time I get to the chat BCC predictions, I actually would not go with MC. I thought you were going to say Sophie.

Because she won the first challenge. Oh, yeah. Already seen as being strong. And there was the added faction of the, of, oh, then we'd only have one Sophie or we could stop calling herself. I would like half credit if an idle play in this way

leads to a Hina plus person going home but I would just further say that while I do think you should take my medical advice if you come to see me as a patient you should not take my prediction advice is terrible there's a little aspect yeah I know my limits

okay domain expertise that's a thing yeah all right well as we wrap up I want to encourage people to check out the RJP patron program at rob his website.com slash patron you get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons uh facebook group discord um early access to and discounts for shows like the san francisco show where they said they had like 1,100 people or something huge like that uh which unfortunately I could not go to and then

it turned out it was good that I could not go to it because I had something else happened that it would have made it very difficult if I had been planning to go to it so um but you know other people yeah you want to go to these things you you become a patron and it becomes much easier uh and of course the most important reason you support shows like ours and everything on the network so again become a patron at rob has a website dot com slash patron and make sure you're subscribed to all the rjap survivor podcasts by going to we know survivor dot com and you can you know you see all the different podcasts there you select your podcast service of choice and you get all the content like us know it all the b&B survivor global and more yes and we would like to thank everyone

at rachap for all of the incredible work that you do scott and jess who lead the team and lead the charge with getting all of the content prepared and ready not just for the wide blank loss podcast but all of the incredible content that is put forth by rjp so thank you to the team members and everyone who puts everything out there for us to enjoy thank you to will from america for the theme song that you did create for the audio version of this podcast by Blank Floss. It's lovely. And thank you, Jeremy, yet again,

for joining us. As always, you are fantastic. I love your insight and I love the ideas that you bring. And I do think that Jeff Probes needs to listen to you more if he hasn't already. And I think that we feel like he has because he's directly seen your post that Sia show to him. So yes, listen to this man.

please Jeff Rose please yes yes it's great to see you guys well yeah let me add my thanks you know thank you very much uh we we appreciate you coming on here making making time for it in the midst of everything else that you do uh it really was amazing to just see you know all these things lined up that you're doing and we're here in the middle so uh so we appreciate it thank you of course jessica for i mean you have a normally a busy schedule too So maybe not as busy as Jerry's, but, you know, maybe. I don't know, some weeks I think it is probably. So, yes, next week, next week, as I mentioned, we will have Liz Wilcox on.

And so we will see you then, or you can find us on social media. Bye. Bye. I'll show you how you playing yourself and got voted out. This is why blank lost. And this is why blank lost. Oh, baby, this is why blind lost.