RHAP: We Know Survivor - Why X Lost Survivor 50 Premiere

Episode Date: February 28, 2026

Why X Lost Survivor 50 Premiere Jenna came into Survivor 50 believing she knew how to play the New Era game. Turns out, not so much. To make things worse, her postgame interviews muddied the water, meaning David Bloomberg, Jessica Lewis, and Survivor 43’s Lindsay Carmine have to sift through contradictory comments to get the real answers. Meanwhile, although Kyle’s time was cut short by an injury, he still had some game to examine. At RHAP, we know Survivor, and we know Why Jenna and Kyle Lost. To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH: Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT: Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

If you lost Survivor and you're feeling down, David and Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how. You're playing yourself and got voted out. This is why Blank Lost. This is Y Blank Lost. Oh, baby, this is why Blank Loss. Welcome back to the 10th anniversary year of Y Blank Loss. I'm David Bloomberg.

and joining me, of course, is my co-host, who sort of kind of was on the Survivor 50th premiere. Not Jenna. Jessica. That's right. I was a little stoked because I said, oh, oh, there I am, like two seconds. Even though you couldn't really see me because I had my head covered because I was getting pelted with sand.

I was there for like two seconds. And then the back of me when the boat was driving away. So that was a nice little reminder of the suffering that I went through while I was out on that island. So thanks for throwing us in there. CPS. That was awesome. I will say that montage was amazing. That was an incredible montage besides me being in it. Yes, yes.

And joining our little montage here, once again, to get this season 50 party started, is special returning guest, Lindsay Carmine. Hi, thanks for having me. Jess, we've missed you. I think the last two, we haven't had you. And if you ever want to know, like, how much your fans love you and are loyal to you.

Like, just go read the comments after an episode where you're not there. You've got some big shoes to fill, and it's hard. Well, I appreciate that, but I also sometimes despise reading the comments. I know, I know. You can feel really good about yourself for two seconds. Then you're like, oh, that one hurt just a little bit. So, yeah, I mean, they do. They definitely do.

But I always appreciate when you fill in for me because I know that you will, you're up for the task. This is a big job. Bloomberg, you know, not that he puts pressure on me, but I'm just saying it. There's a lot of rules that you have to follow. And I make sure that you follow them in the correct order. You know all of this. And so I really appreciate it. Yes.

No, I'm honored to be asked back. I think this is my seventh visit with y'all. and to be asked to do, right? I think, wait, 43, 44, okay. Anyway, six something. I, just for you guys to ask me to be on the first episode for the premiere, thank you. Thanks for having that.

Thanks for being here. That would be great. So I also want to start off by saying, Jessica, happy birthday. A few days late, but you got to celebrate just before Survivor 50. Yes, I did. It was a lovely kind of quiet mom celebration for me. My daughter made me a lovely dinner. It was so fantastic.

And icebox cake for my for my dessert. It was very enjoyable. So it was a nice birthday. And yeah, here we are. Now I got to celebrate Survivor 50 and now the podcast. So many things happening this week. So many things. Yes.

Yes, busy week. Now, for anyone who is new to this podcast, let's explain it. Welcome, first of all. Each week, we look at how the person who has voted out played the game compared to a set of guiding rules for winning that I originally wrote way back after season, won, and have been updating ever since. We use all the non-spoiler information available to us from what it was on TV, interview, social media, and secret scenes. And the newest published version, which isn't all that updated, but it's the newest still, can be found at rob has a website.com slash yx loss. and clicking on the link bubble for those survivor rules. And yes, even though Kyle was taken out as a medevac, and it was only the first episode, we will still discuss his game and how he played. But let's face it,

the majority of our discussion is going to focus on Jenna, just out of necessity, since we have a lot more information about what she did and specifically what she did wrong. but first let's check in with you Lindsay how have you been doing since we saw you last season oh I've been doing wonderful I did my workout this morning and for the first time it was light outside as I was coming out and then I remember last night I was doing something I think it was around 6 o'clock and I was like wait a second the sun hasn't gone down yet and

and then someone said today we've got 22 days until spring and I'm like wait that's three weeks in one day. I can make it through the winter. So Pennsylvania is hard. I mean, up until probably a couple days ago, I hadn't seen brass since Christmas. I mean,

we've just been pelted with snow, which is great because if it's going to be this cold, like I want to have fun with it, but we've had way too many snow days this year. Yeah. Yeah. So, so thanks for asking.

Yes, absolutely. So when you were on the podcast last season, it was also a double elimination. episode where the second player was Medevac. Yes. And it's Lizzie's fault. I'm not kidding to think so. But I do want to tell you, I promise we would have you on even if we didn't need to

talk to you about medical topics as a nurse. Thank you. Thank you. This is like a double job. I get to like have fun talking about Survivor, but we can talk about some medical stuff too. Yeah. Now, I had heard in some pregame discussion that there was an intro.

in the first three days, but it didn't lead to an immediate medevac. When we saw it happen, it didn't look that bad, like what we saw until he tried to walk on it again. So you saw the tests. I don't know how much your nursing job would take you into this.

Are you familiar with the tests that they used on him? Yeah, I actually am. So when I saw his injury, and then I found out that it was his Achilles. I actually went back and I kept rewinding it because I wanted to see if there was like that aha moment of basically when it snapped. Yeah.

Did you then find out that wasn't actually the scene that they changed the scenes? Did they? Yes. That was his second jump attempt and it was actually his third because his second attempt looked weirder than his third. So that's the one they put out there.

But if you look at like Dalton Ross or Mike Bloom's social media, they were actually taking their own video at the time. And they posted the real jump where it hit. But it looked less bad than the one that they showed on TV. So I don't think you'd have seen anything. No, I mean, essentially his tendon snapped in half. I mean, and Jeff said it in the show where it's your strongest, like, muscle or a tendon in your leg so it's connecting your calf to your heel the test that they did out

there basically what happens is when you squeeze the calf um if the tendon is connected even in any way you're going to see the foot move and what you saw on the show was it wasn't moving and and i believe it's called like the Thompson's test it's something like that but um yeah and so he knew right away. But I have a feeling they probably needed to go back to base camp, kind of do some Google searches, figuring out, like, what they really need to focus on. I'm actually surprised that it took him that long to say, like, it's hurting in the back of my heel. Because usually there's like a snap or a pop that you hear when something like that happens. And I'm not sure if he heard that, but you tend to know right away. I'm not sure if there was like just too much swelling. I can't even

believe. I'm not sure. Sorry. Before I forget, I was listening to him talk about the following day. He's like, you know, I'm ready to go and I'm thinking of myself like, there's no way he's not an excruciating pain. Oh, yeah. Well, I, I read, no, not read. I heard on a podcast and I don't remember, I mean, I only listened to like three podcasts or maybe I read it somewhere that that with your Achilles tendon, you can actually have no pain. It's just I can't put any weight on it. There's like immediate pain when it like when it snaps and then it almost rolls up like a like a

shade if you will. Yeah. I don't know. But then after that there's like it doesn't hurt because it's like it's the it's the snap and then then you just can't put you just can't wait on it. I don't ever. I've seen people that have had the surgery. I've worked with people that have had the surgery and they have to go around on a little

wheelie like one. You have to kneel on. this thing and wheel yourself around to just forever to recover. There is so much rehab that has to be done with your leg and your foot and it just sounds awful. It sounds absolutely terrible.

So, I think I know. The heartbreaking thing, I'm not sure if you guys watched this video that he posted. It was like six-month road to recovery. And it basically was like a behind the scenes of, I have to assume

what he hid from a lot of people, A, because he didn't want people to find out, like, the outcome of the show, but also, like, I don't know, it's once you tell people, like, what happened, they're automatically going to assume, you know, I definitely have seen another player from the show with an injury later on. And, of course, the first thing you ask is like, is that from the show? Does this happen out? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He said, I think he said on, I think it was Rob's interview. I couldn't be wrong. I think he said that he basically hid in his apartment, you know, for the entire however many months until he could actually walk around again because he didn't, yeah, he didn't want to give it away, which he said, he was a newlywed. Wasn't that bad. You know what? I probably actually agree with that because after being in the spotlight and playing, you know, two games somewhat back to back, he's probably tired.

He's probably tired, you know, tired of talking to people. and he could use a break. Yeah. So I was talking to our other Y Blank lost resident medical expert, Dr. Jeremy Faust. And he, you know, initially he, you know, said the same things you did when we were talking. But we were trying to remember if this is a first time a medical evacuation actually led to surgery. The problem is we're both really bad at this sort of trivia. So if anyone knows, feel free to drop.

Did the scoop in have to have surgery? When he fell into the fire? I would guess. He had to have something. I'm assuming he probably had like graphs and stuff. And then let's see. Was there shoulder surgery? I don't know.

I don't know. I suggested that the quickest way to find out would be to post on social media and say, wow, this is the first time. And immediately everyone will rush me. Everyone will tell you that you're on. I don't care. That's fair. Yeah, I would say yes.

That will happen. So try it. Bloomberg and see what happens. I brought it up here. You've already brought up one that, yeah, he had to have some sort of, I would think.

I would certainly think after that. He, you know, but that's, you know, of course that's spelled S-K-A-A-S-K-E-N. He's not worth talking about. No.

One of those people who the punish or the the punishment came before the crime. So, all right. Well, moving on from injuries, we still have a few other things we want to discuss before we addressed how Jenna and Kyle did in terms of the rules. I have to admit, Jessica, please don't hurt me. I didn't hate the twist of buying supplies with your vote. I mean, of course, I think they should have gotten supplies to begin with. And I voted for that maybe 10 times a day.

but you know but you know with him doing this it's not some crazy randomly lose a vote because Jeff said so it's a choice and a negotiation though as Witt pointed out to me on Blue Sky there should have been an option where nobody loses a vote if they didn't want to buy the supplies That would have truly been the best outcome. But even in that case, I still think Q would have sold his vote anyway. So in this particular situation, it didn't matter. Well, my mother is looking for some clarification. And perhaps you can help out here.

Yeah. When it came to the three of them having to go and try to get their supplies, the only thing that they won in that initial marooning challenge, if you will, was fire. Fire. Apparently, yeah. Yeah. And that was it.

Okay. My mother was like, I don't understand why Q still had to go. And I was like, great question. But then I was thinking about it. I'm like, that has to be. It was only fire that they want. Yeah. I think they want, well, I think they wanted three people there was the main reason.

You know, they could have done it either way. But I think they wanted three people there. So then they could use this other thing of, you know, the selling of the vote and stuff. So. Well, question. Sorry. Oh, go ahead. Did they, sorry to interrupt.

Did they say. choose a guy from each try or did they say choose a player? Choose a player. And it just so happened to be all three guys. I think they were trying to balance from what I've seen in interviews and stuff. They were trying to balance physical and puzzle.

Like who would be the best medium option for both since we don't know what it's going to be. Well, and you have to forgive me. I just want to make because so we're talking about this is the Ozzie coach Q. Yes. So listen, I'm going to get a little Christian Hubbicki here for a second.

He needs to get involved in what I'm about to talk about with this. Because I have a very real problem with the structure of this particular challenge. Because you, oh, let's see if Lindsay was in the same headspace. The key that needed to be acquired was directly in front of coach. He had a straight shot to get the key. The other two had to go in an end. It's a disadvantage. It was a huge disadvantage.

But were they allowed to go wherever they want? That's my question. And then I thought because when I'm like, because I really do want to break down who was in the right and who was in the wrong. I mean, in that situation. Or not even like right or wrong, but like what y'all's opinion on if the Dragon Slayer is playing like a loyal game? Is it loyal only because he says it in his words? But anyway, so I went back and I watched that scene as well. And I'm thinking to myself, if Ozzy knows that he's up at the top and if he keeps going,

that either one of them can grab it, did he really believe that neither one of them were going to grab it to the point where he was willing to stay up top? Like, why didn't he shimmy down? I mean, all of that. Yeah, I mean, his angle on it was terrible also. because he needed more if I mean think of a you know think of the the length and distance just of a triangle you know if you're going straight on you don't need as many sticks as much length as if you're going down he was thinking he could use like leverage that way yeah and in the end I guess he did but I think that one reason it took so long was he was so high up yeah and coach was literally in front of the

So he just had to keep his stick straight. I mean, I might have taken some pictures. Maybe I'll post them. Because Coach was, you could see it in Coach's face. He was like, I'm just going to wait. I'm going to let Ozzy do all the work. And I'm just going to sit here. And I'm just going to wait.

And that's exactly what he did. He watched. And then he had a stick that he didn't have to worry about breaking because he literally just had to go straight and take the key. I think now the experience set up problem with this structure. I mean, Okay, but David, from an engineering standpoint. I think it was a problem with the players.

Like, if Ozzy wanted to get high up, he could have gone over. No, no, no, no. But this thing is because it's not about the height, that's a choice, sure. Right. But if you have to be on the side and someone gets in the middle, I don't know that they did. I don't know. Well, if you look at the structure, there was very, there was three sections,

that it was very clearly broken into three sections. And with everything and Lindsay, you can speak to this as well. When you are in a challenge, you are designated a spot. You don't get to pick. It doesn't matter. Like, they're like, okay, and you can see like this is your color. Like every color, every ring is a different color. Everybody had a different color buoy.

So I would imagine. Did you notice when they were giving out the buffs? They were in order. Like each person, even though the buffs had their name on them. And then it kind of like went down. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but you're right. Like they know where everybody's standing. And I was like, how do they know where the bus for?

And I was like, oh, because it's labeled. Yes. But I think that's why they knew where they. So Ozzy had to go there. Coach had to go in the middle. And Q had to be on the end. And then I was looking and I'm like, I think it's unfair. I think that.

Unless there was a random draw that we didn't see. Because you guys know. Okay. They do random. We're all about fairness. They're all about fairness. I bet there was a ran. If it was designated, I bet it was a random draw.

I bet it was a random draw that they just didn't bother to show us. Yeah. And that's probably what it was. But I still don't appreciate it happening like that because, yeah. And that's why I want like Christian Hubiki to do the math. Like the angle, the how the distance. Does it make a difference how many sticks you have to tie together if you're on the side versus the center? Yes, because you'd 100% need more.

I mean, David, you're an engineer. You know this. The other thing is, is if the whole goal. is to, if you're having to make it go around, like, I don't know, you know how he was trying to, like, curve it. Yeah.

I think the only way he could do that was being up at the top. So I have to assume. He was basically losing it like a lasso. He was so flexible. He was using it like a rope to knock it down. I think he could have done that from, from lower down.

I think so too. I don't think he needed to be at the top. Maybe he tried. He wouldn't have enough range of motion, though. his range of motion would have only been as much as he could do with his arm through the box. Right, right. He would literally have to be like this with the like the square and he'd have to be doing that. That's, it's not realistic.

So, all right. So then. So there's that. To your question to the more, to the less engineering and more moral aspect of it, I think coach was 100% right. Yeah, absolutely. It is. Those are not words that. you could have told me I was going to say on this podcast, you know, a few weeks ago.

But I mean, he, he never made a promise. Right. He just kept his mouth shut. Ozzy assumed. What should you never do in life or in this game, assume? Exactly. And what I think that points out really nicely is that Survivor is a game that you can only play for yourself.

You cannot assume what another player is going to do. because what you feel is right or what you expect the other person to do might not be what they care to do. And I think Ozzy was kind of leaning in on this, well, coach is this loyal person. Well, coach can be loyal and he can still play the game because, as you said, David, he didn't make a promise he wasn't going to do that. He was just waiting to see what happened with the key.

And everyone had fair access to it if that's, and they all went for it. They all went for it. So I think that coach was completely fine. the way that he did it. It would have been different if he had promised. Oh, no, no, no, I won't. And then did. Well, that's a different discussion. But that's not what he did. Or we're not talking about this part. The rules specifically stated that you can steal it. And I think for coach, who wants to play this loyal, honest game, I don't think they would have necessarily stolen it or even

thought to steal it if it wasn't mentioned in the rules. Yeah, well, I think it had to be mentioned in the rules because otherwise you'd have that question if you're playing. Right, right, right. Coach also said in the pregame, he's not playing the same. He's going, I know he said a few of his catchphrases in here, you know, and how dare he question my honor. But he said he's going to play in a way that does not allow his honor to restrict him from playing the game. Well, then don't, then don't make your whole personality about honor. That's how I'm asking.

You know, so far. It's up in the first episode. Hey, he brought it. Well, did he bring it up or did the producer bring it up and ask him? You know, what would your honor think of this? Okay, that's fair. You know, so, I mean, it's just the same way. Devons said he wasn't going to do the newscaster bit because he hasn't been a newscaster

for years unless, of course, production wanted him to. What do we have in the first episode? Dant-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, and some people were like upset. Ah, he's not even a newscaster anymore. Come on. Production is going to want you to do your schick. You know, they pulled it from here.

I just assumed they pulled it from like an old episode or something. It was him talking about Cila. Oh, yeah, he was. Yeah. I do think that with this particular cast, there seems to be a very, like, there seems to be like an idea that's associated with each person that they put on season 50.

And so this idea that they aren't necessarily, you know, legends or things of that nature, I don't think that's what it is. I think they were looking for people that brought with them like coach, you know, where he has this like this persona. He has this thing. And I think Christian did a really great job kind of breaking it down in his pregame press where he was talking about those different archetypes and what they're going to bring and how they basically have three narrators this season. And you can have three narrators. So how are they going to deal with that? And I thought that was really quite fascinating, but he was finding the narrators for both the women and the men.

And then there was, but it was a really fascinating way to break down the decisions as to why certain people were chosen. And I don't think he's completely right. But I think it was something worth considering. So, yes, I think the producers are absolutely going to be pushing that. I mean, look the way of Colby being dressed for God's sakes. I mean, and he even talked about it in his cream, press.

What are you saying? He's like, you don't. this on an island, but this is Colby, you know, this is that character Colby, and that's what they do. So I think that that's what we're going to see a lot of, for sure, moving forward. They're going to try to push those narratives

of those people that are on the show. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Moving on to another topic that still isn't the rules. I know. The first episode, we've got talking about the comments. Lots of things. Yeah. In the second journey,

the funny thing is, I only had a couple things because I knew you both would have things. In the second journey, I thought it was funny how people on Savannah's tribe immediately clocked. Oh, yes. Must have gotten something for winning that challenge. I don't know.

She's the one who's just been in the game. She was there two weeks ago. I know. I know. That was a bad call on her. Yeah. People, of course, are going to think that they don't have journeys with no reward, only a penalty. And

so, you know, Devin said she's becoming a bigger and bigger target and she did not need that. Okay, okay. But she's not going to tell them because it is not fair of us to rip people apart for running their mouse about their advantages. And then say that she made the wrong choice by keeping it a secret. Like we have to support them. Right. I don't think it's the wrong choice.

But I do think that she is kind of putting herself. this is why the journeys are so problematic because you're damned if you do you're damned if you don't, right? Because everyone knows you're going to come back with something. So you have to come up with a different lie about what you came back with because everyone knows you came back with something. And so to say, no, it was just they took my vote away is going to make everybody suspicious immediately. Even if that's what did happen, they're still going to be suspicious immediately. So I feel like she needed to come up with something because, yes, they're totally suss. someone came up with an idea

Now this went to work Because I think she felt she needed her vote Someone came up with an idea And I don't remember who it was And I apologize I don't even remember where in the universe Or a hapverse it was Of

Lie, say you lost your vote And then when it comes time to vote Use your shot in the dark So there's one less vote And then just pocket it And never Never actually play it And so then it looks like you get to keep your advantage.

No one has any suspicion because there's one less vote that was in the earn there. Yeah, but think about it this way. If she thinks that there's either going to be a tribe swap or there's going to be another journey that happens quickly, somebody is going to be asking the other players what actually happened. And if somebody brought an advantage and I think Savannah's mentality was like, Colby doesn't know there was advantage. Colby's going to be able to back up my story. So like, and then if she tells people, okay, I had to give up my vote,

are people necessarily going to consider her their number one right out the gate? If you can only bring in a certain amount of players into an alliance, maybe she's not going to be the one that is clued in on what's happening because she's not a count in the vote. Yeah, that's more hypothetical, not for this particular vote. but yeah I mean I understand what you're saying that we you know talk about people who tell everyone but you've got to you've got to come up with something you can't just expect them to believe you got nothing you've got to come up with some story and you know when it's a block of vote

I mean we mostly do it with other stuff like idols is a block of vote all that powerful one vote I mean just say you got it say that that you're planning to use it in case of a swap. So everyone please be quiet. And you know, you promise you swear up and down to use it, you know, for the good of the tribe.

Yes, for the good of the tribe. And because it's, it's a block of vote. It's not, it's not huge, you know, when it comes.

I don't know. I really want a block of vote. I, if I had my choice in, and a certain advantages, I'd say block a vote would be top three. I don't know. If I had to like come up with them quickly, I think black of it would be top three.

I don't know. I really like the boomerang one. Yeah. Yes, we haven't talked about it. The boomerring is, is interesting because I did, I do like the philosophy behind the choice with why they ended up. And Kyle gave us a little more indication as to why they picked Ozzy. for this. So we can talk about that. When we get there, I won't jump ahead.

I'll jump ahead. Sorry, Heather. Now, another thing I did want to mention was we said in our preview podcast that the best thing for Camilla would be for Kyle to go out early and vice versa. Sorry, Kyle. You know, we didn't even get a chance to see if anyone was, you know, keeping an eye on Camilla because of him. But it will be interesting to watch how things proceed for her.

from here. It'll be hard to judge, really. But I do think it will be a weight off of her. And now, also, well, related to Camilla, but not related to that. The funniest line that I, you know, heard from her was when she said,

I had a whole season of honor and integrity in 48, and I'm so sick of it. Yeah. We hear you, Camilla. We hear you. Yes. And the hood is back. She's got her little hood.

on all tied up tight on her face. It's really, it's quite the look, Camilla. It's quite the look. Production probably told her she had to, you know. Probably, right? Damn production. Now, another thing I want to mention here is it seems like Jeff's On Fire podcast is not airing this season.

I don't know if it's been canceled or it's on pause or what. But there has been no mention of it from any official source, far as I've heard. Normally, there would have been an announcement about a week before the premiere for the new co-host. That didn't happen. Some have since speculated, oh, maybe Kyle's going to do it. So they couldn't announce it yet.

Oh. But we're recording on Friday night. I still haven't seen any news. There's no reason they couldn't have announced that by now. And they still could have mentioned, they still could have had Jeff plug it and say, oh, we'll be coming, you know, make sure after the, because he always said it on the show, after the episode, download the only official podcast.

You could have said that without saying who the host was. So, you know, we're going to be losing a lot of our Jeffisms for our Jeff Probst is wrong about blank segment. But let's say he couldn't, I guess they could have recorded it ahead of time and then released it early. I was going to say, what if they wanted to wait until Kyle did all of his exit press for the show yesterday? And then maybe they recorded it today, edited it and then release it tomorrow. I mean, we'll see.

You know, it's possible that this could be out of date as soon as it hits as soon as it hits people's podcatchers. But I just don't think so. I also personally don't think they would have Kyle because it would be weird having someone from the season and assuming they don't know the outcome. Because I think they know, you know, all the pre-merge people know, all the pre-jury people, they find out. Unless they really don't want to for some reason, they find out what has happened. And the whole point of a former player being on is to be the analyst. Well, you can't analyze if you already know what the outcome is. Right. Right. So I just think it's, especially the lack of any mention of it anywhere.

I think it's just either they canceled it. Bloomberg, I have to tell you something and I hate people to do this to, but they might have asked me to do it and I said I would meet David Bloomberg and so now just not doing that. Never. I am going to choose to believe that is what happened.

Honor and integrity. Honor and integrity. Loyalty. I went into a bag of rocks for God's sake because I'm so loyal. I think we should add it to the rules of Survivor. like just add it as like uh let's see what can we put it number eight must have loyalty to david lumburg no we just we need to discuss their honor and loyalty to um yeah um now uh even though we don't have jeff i am going to replace that segment uh and call it the cbs

morning show crew is wrong about blank uh because i'm not sure if this is going to continue all season, but they got the first interviews with Jenna and Kyle. And boy, do these people have no clue. I mean, this could be an ongoing source of just great content here. I could probably do a whole other podcast on it because Gail King started off on completely the wrong foot by saying, Jenna, you were robbed. No, not even close. I don't know how you could watch that episode and think she was.

was somehow robbed. And obviously we haven't been to, you know, we're half hour in. I know commenters on YouTube. We're half hour in. We haven't gotten to the rules yet. But, you know, I think anyone tuning into this podcast knows already before we even start the rules, Jenna did some very wrong things to earn the title of first Putin. She was not robbed.

Well, maybe you need to reach out to Gilking. Okay, I'll get right on it. I'll have my people reach out to her people. We'll do lunch. Do we think she knows what robbed means? Do you think she like read that somewhere? Do we think somebody told her that? Do we think she actually watched all three hours?

Right. I don't think so. I think someone wrote stuff on a card and said, here, say these things. And maybe they didn't like her very much. Because, yeah, and that continued because then when Jenna talked about how she played, one of the hosts said, that's how you play the game, scheming hard,

because obviously he's an expert. And this is why you come here for advice and analysis, not to the CBS morning show. I know we're spoiled. We're spoiled. I feel this way about politics and Taylor Swift, too. I can't expect everyone's baseline to be the same way,

the same baseline as ours for survival. her version of being robbed and our version of being robbed could be two totally different things. Clearly, clearly are. Yes. All right. Well, I know, like I said, we are a half hour in, but either of you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we move into the rules. No, we really need to get into the rules. Okay.

Lindsay, I hope you're okay with that. I am. I have lots of opinions, but we can talk about it next time. go. Oh, next time. Okay. Well, is there anything you really need to get off your chest about this episode before that's not, we're not going to talk about in the rules? No, because I'll probably find a way to, to, to, to, to, to, to sneak it in there. I do. I do. Always sneak it in there. All right. Well, before we get to the rules, uh, we do want to mention that, uh, with the, the rules we're about to discuss, come in a poster form. You can go to,

Rob has website.com slash y-X loss feed. Scroll down to that poster, click on it and order it. And then in addition to the poster, you can keep scrolling and get the poster on a t-shirt design, which Jessica is wearing. And if you keep scrolling, you can get the checklist on a t-shirt design, which I am wearing. You know, I almost messaged you and said, which shirt are you wearing so we can go opposite. But I said, I'm just going to go with it. And look, it works out.

We are just, we are just connected. Yes. That's why you couldn't move on to the On Fire podcast. I can't leave you. This is it. So, so again, you can get that at Robhouse website.com slash y-X lost feet. Excellent. Well, Jenna came.

I can't hear my dogs back there. No. We can't hear him. No. All right, that's good. Yes. Jenna came into Survivor 50 with a target in mind. and she immediately went for it in the most direct way possible.

She believed she was playing new era survivor and everyone should appreciate her for it. Not so much. To make things worse, she backtracked and denied what happened in her post-game interviews, meaning now we not only have to sift through what happened, but also her contradictory comments to get to the real answers. While on the other side, we saw Kyle absolutely putting himself into what appeared to be an amazing position for the long game. only to have that cut short by an injury. It's a tale of the person voted out doing so many things wrong and the one who had no choice

seemingly doing everything right. At RHAP, we know Survivor and we know why Jenna and Kyle lost. Now, the first and most important rule is, of course, to scheme and plot. And Jenna said in her final words that we didn't see but which were passed along to us by Dalton Ross. going into this, I really did do a lot of research on this new era. And all I heard was how fast it was. So I was like, okay, I'm going to be really prepared to start playing fast.

So that's what I did. And that would be great if that had been what actually happened. I mean, I guess it was, but not in the way she seems to believe. Because her idea of playing seemed to be going around to everyone and spreading Sheree's name as a target before making any relationships. Now, of course, we'll have plenty to say about this in a few minutes. But it really didn't seem like she was scheming and plotting, just trying to direct. And this was something we talked about in our preseason podcast related to her, where she said

she could make Christian Her Lackey and control Devons just by telling him how much she likes him. And the funny thing, I guess the ironic thing there is Devin's turned on her. One reason was he felt she was talking with a lot of people except him. So she didn't even take her own advice when it came to Devin's. And certainly she did not make Christian into a lacky. No. And I just think that there's this misconception or not really truly understanding when people talk about how the new air moves so quickly. It's more about the structure of the game, which requires you to have to make

decisions more quickly, as opposed to having to like say stuff really, really fast and to all everyone at the same time, all of, you know, like, and so there's like this disconnect where you have 26 days to do what used to take 39 days. So clearly things are going to move more quickly as far as the game is concerned. So that's going to make you have to make decisions faster. So I think in her mind, this like, well, it moves so fast, we have to make a decision now. And it's like, no, you don't

have to tell everybody immediately five seconds when you're on the sand on the beach together. This is who we're going to vote out. I think Joe was like, we haven't even gone to a challenge yet. Like, what's doing? You know, I mean, it's like, let the game kind of play out

before you start making these decisions. And so I feel like that's where the disconnect really comes from. Look, I think there's a lot of truth to what she says, you know, as she's doing research, that's the one, the theme that you're going to hear about the new era, right, is the pace of the game. And she did say, like, I'm disconnected from these people. I haven't seen Colby in 20 years. And I'm thinking of myself, that's a long time.

Like, especially in the new era where everybody is going out and everybody is having a good time, you know? So I also think a couple of things need to be considered. Number one, who are you talking to? Are you talking to? What was her research? Did she go to chat GPT and say, tell me about the new era and it popped up and it said things move quick? I don't even think it's that.

But like, okay, you've got Ozzy and Surrey on your tribe. Well, they're not used to a fast game. Oh, that's what you mean. They're used to a slower-paced game. So like, you immediately don't need to go fast with them, right? Right. And then you've got Joe. I think the reason the game is fast-paced.

not only because it's 26 days, but we have such younger players. And when you think about the intentions fans of, you know, younger people right now, and I'm saying that as somebody that has two kids at home, and it's hard to keep their attention, like over 30 minutes to an hour on something. I'm in schools all day as a nurse, and I'm seeing how hard it is. I think it moves fast there. But when you're talking to Joe and you're talking to Rick Devin, it's like they don't need the game to go that fast.

And then you've got some of the newer school players. like, okay, let's say Savannah. She's not going to come in hot and heavy. Why? Because nobody knows how she plays the game. She's kind of an outlier in terms of how long she's been in the survivor family, even though, you know, she's newer to the game and she's got more skin in it because she's been playing longer.

And she's like, look at these people. She probably is holding them up to a higher standard of her level of play, of their level of play. So like, she's not going to come in and be like, okay, this is how the new. the new era is. And so my whole point is, I think you really need to, like, know your audience and maybe have,

like, had conversations with people a little bit more about the pace of the game before you started. And here's the other thing. She shouldn't have thrown out a name. Like, what I've come to realize is, what are you thinking?

If your whole, if your whole technique is to be, like, get other people to say a name, so that way they're not pointing fingers at you, that person thinks they're in control at the game, yada, yada, yada. I'm just, I'm curious why we skip that

step. Especially because she's played three times now. Yeah. Well, a couple things. One, another thing that must occur to me about the pace of the game. The pace of the game does increase later. The first vote out, the first tribal council still happens

on day three. Whether it's old school, new school, new era, tribal council one happens on day three. You have the same amount of time no matter what for that first vote. After that, yeah, things go to hell in the handbasket, a lot quicker. But right away, you don't have to be doing that.

You don't have to be there on day one. And then, like you said, she skipped that step. And I just go back to her preseason stuff where she was talking about, well, it's my job to make sure that customers get the best, so I have to put pressure on people and get them to do this and da, da, da, da, da, da. And it seemed like that was how she was treating this. I have to put pressure so that I get the way I want it. But, and she also felt like Rob said I know it all, and I agree with this.

Jenna looked pretty well set up in the preseason. Nobody was talking about coming for her. Now she couldn't know that. But she looked good. And, but she kept saying in her interviews that she. she was quote on the bottom from the start. And that doesn't seem to be true until she put herself there. And can I just say to and this is how I feel.

And I might have mentioned this when we talked about her before. If I were on season 50 and I was put on a tribe with Jenna, I would have been fan girling so badly because there's like Borneo. Like I would have wanted to just spend time with her because I would have been like, oh my god, that's Jenna. It would have been the same thing with like Colby. Like there's something to be said about being a fan of this game and then having an opportunity to play with these people.

And you see Rizzo. I mean, Rizzo was just like, he's just seeping with like admiration and just like respect. And I'm just, and just being overwhelmed when he's cheering for them during the challenges. And that would have been me. And so I feel like Jenna should have really maybe leaned in on that just a little bit. You know, we're like who she was with. about making it all about her.

It's someone like Surrey, where Surrey is like, even one of the interviews that Surrey provided during like a confessional, she talked about being like a queen. Like she's like, I don't need to say I'm queen kind of thing. It's like, but people just feel like you are. And so lean in on that. Let that be the way people perceive you instead of changing that perception into this thing. And I think it's interesting that some of the,

there was a post from a Borneo player that. might have said something like that's exactly how she was in Borneo too. So I thought that was a little fascinating. So I don't, I just thought it was, I thought it was interesting that this is, she's now trying to make it like, oh, well, that's how the new era is,

but someone's like, no, she's the same thing to Borneo. So I don't know, I don't, but she couldn't really use Borneo to her advantage, I think. Yeah. Hold on. I feel like I've hung out with enough people that played so, long ago. And the common theme that I'm seeing with them is, come on, it's 50 seasons. I don't.

They, I don't think they see themselves the same way that we see them. No, I don't think to do. Right. So without me, like, calling people out, I'm fan-girling over these people, but, and they're coming to these survivor events or a barbecue or whatever. They think there are these washed up husbands who nobody thinks is relevant anymore. And like, of course, that's better than like somebody. coming out on the scene after not being on the scene for 20 years and thinking they're not shit. Like we would prefer someone to be like, who me?

No, you know. But I just, I'm sure Jenna was very scared coming in. And she's seeing, okay, not only all these new era people who are involved, but she's seeing all these old school players. Surrey and Jenna are not the same. Why? Because Seri's been in the game, you know? She's been playing. Everybody knows her.

Jenna hasn't. So I think it's easier for Sarie to lean into that queen role as opposed to Jenna. You know, Jenna probably had a lot of insecurities, rightly so going in because she just felt like

I'm not part of this group. And she mentioned that. She did mention that in her exepress too that she felt like it was a party. She had never, like she wasn't invited to kind of thing. And I get that. And so I don't think that she necessarily

needed to do something obvious. But it is one of those opportunities where you know the people who are playing Survivor are probably really big fans of the game. You can just kind of assume that because now we see it in so many seasons where there's super fans and people who can tell you every winner from every season in order. And just they know the game inside and out. And they listen to podcasts and they do these things. And so I feel like maybe just having a little more.

more of a discussion with people about, wow, isn't this crazy? Like, I'm back doing this and it's been so long and, like, talking to Surrey or Ozzy about how it feels to come back. And, like, she did come back in All-Stars. So she's done this once before, where she played the game with people

who had played the game previously. So it's not like she's ignorant to the process. But I feel like she's trying to use this new era component to excuse a behavior that she might have also been doing in All-Stars. she might have also been doing in Morneo. And so it's like if this is just how you're going to play the game, and maybe that's just what it was, that's how you play the game.

But she also, in All-Stars from what I've read, and I don't know this to be true, but there was a lot of pre-gaming in All-Stars. And it sounds like she was one of the people, again, from what I've read, who did a lot of it. And utilize that to her advantage in All-Stars because she had done pre-gaming. And so it's like, but I understand it's been some years now.

And she's kind of out of that world. And yeah, it must suck when you come back and you're like, I don't have anyone like I did when I was in All-Stars. I knew everybody when I was in All-Stars. I don't know these people. So it has to be uncomfortable. But the last thing you want to do, and this is just, again, my humble opinion, if you feel uncomfortable about this space you're in, then don't shine a light on yourself to make other people feel uncomfortable around you. like try to lean into who you are and like maybe like hey help me out here a little bit you know like I want to play this game I know it's a new era and I'm coming back into it do that instead of

this like way that she went about the game which was like suddenly everyone who saw I really want to play with Jenna was like oh wait maybe I don't want to play with Jenna and that's when they saw what she was what she was doing yeah I do want to mention I don't want to spend much time on this because we have more to talk about even in this rule, let alone the rest of them. But I did see someone say that she did kind of move fast and take control in All-Stars. But the difference was she had a receptive audience. Yes.

It was only eight seasons worth of people. And she went in there with this idea of let's get Tina and, you know, let's get rid of the winners. but she told that to people who already wanted Tina out had had beat with Tina beforehand. So, you know, it was a much easier sell than going to let's go after the most likable person on Survivor. Yes. And to people who she doesn't know. And so it's, you know, it was, it could have been seen as a similar way of doing it. But with, you've got to read your audience too.

But mostly, Jessica, yes. hit on something I was going to say, which is if you think you're on the bottom, your move is not to say, okay, then I'm going to push hard. Your move is time. Yes. You know,

and, you know, yes, get yourself in the bush so that you're like Homer Simpson, so that people don't see you. People go elsewhere. Try to help. Try to become a number. But she wanted to win the game on, you know, by day three. And you can't do that. And

on top of it, I just don't think she was picking up clues. Like she told Mike Bloom, I went on a walk maybe right before tribal council, but they were still on the fence at that time, Savannah and Joe. For people that are playing so fast, they were making their decision two minutes before tribal council because I just couldn't get them to come together, which is sad. Okay, but is there really what was happening? Or were they just trying to avoid you? Yeah.

Yeah, because they already knew that they weren't voting. with you and they didn't want to tip you off or get into an argument about it. Yeah, of course you're going to say, oh yeah, I don't know. We just haven't made up our mind. That is classic, classic way of trying to avoid you. But she just, yeah, she didn't realize, I don't know means we don't want to tell you. I'm surprised I didn't just tell her yes. We're going to vote with you.

Well, remember there's a shot in the dark. Everybody in the new era is prime. to blindside because of the shot in the dark. Now, Jenna probably never would have thought of the shot in the dark, but, you know, she just could have, and this way they didn't have to make up a lie. She was buying it. Oh, yeah, we're, we're voting when we're, we'll make up our mind soon.

You know, that's always a lie. Always. Oh, goodness. So as I mentioned, you know, we'll have a lot more to say about Jenna's gameplay in a few minutes here. but let's hop over to Kyle because if it hadn't been for his injury he appeared to be set up

really well I mean I think even better than we saw on TV we knew he was in good with Genevieve who told us Kyle is my guy Hugh said Kyle was a big part of my plans we saw him working with Colby he was part of the core alliance of five that would have controlled the tribe

but there was even more going on he said in interviews that while Genevieve was his number one Colby was approached him for an alliance. And Kyle knew to ask to include Colby's other ally from his Heroes versus Villain Days. And then he wanted to add Q, but didn't want to seem like he was pushing it. So he had Hugh talk to Genevieve and also let Colby talk to him about her while, you know, putting distance

between himself and Genevieve so it wouldn't be obvious they were each other's number one. basically Kyle and Genevieve were going to be Kyle and Camilla 2.0. I know. It would have been so amazing to watch. They wouldn't have let Kyle last that long. I don't know. I mean, I feel like he's too likable.

He's so likable. I know. It's annoying how likable Kyle is. I love Kyle so much. You just, you want to like stare out and you're like, oh, he's so great. He's just so great.

And, I mean, but he. was in alliances with everyone on his tribe. And they didn't know when they weren't, it wasn't in a bad way. This was not a rule two violation here. You know, he, he and,

no, I think he would have, there would have been like a swap or something would have happened. Like, I mean, yeah, at some point, but yeah,

that's, you know, being in an alliance with everyone on your tribe means, you're going to swap with someone. Well, right. And I mean, unless you end up in a pure minority somehow.

Sure. You're not going to let Kyle. get to the final three. Well, no, I don't think Kyle would have made it that far. But just as well as he was doing was surprising already. I wish we could have seen. I really wish we could have seen because like he, Genevieve and Q formed an alliance with Rizzo and Angelina felt like he was, she was,

he was her number one. And then she brought in Aubrey for a separate three personal alliance. So, I mean, that alliance probably would have been the sacrificial lamb if they had gone the tribal council. But in the meantime, like, he was good with everyone. And then even, even after he injured himself, he talked about how he was worried that night. But as he told Mike Bloom, then I kicked back in the morning and I started playing. I started talking to people. I kept those conversations going. I told them, hey, I'm going to do everything to stay here. My tribe mates were like, bro, we are not voting you out. And I don't think at this point they would have.

Oh, no. Could it have changed? yes. But for right now, he was the center of the universe on that tribe. Yeah. You don't have any reason to get rid of them.

Right. As opposed to Surrey. I mean, why are we not talking about this? Why are we not talking about the obvious? Which was like, there's a lot of truth to Jenna's point, which was...

Oh, because that's not until, I think, an appendix A thing. There's really no. I don't even know if I have it. I do. I do have it. I do have it. I do have it.

I do have it there. But yes, we will, we will get there. But as for, you know, Kyle, you know, he eventually had the scheme of plot in a whole different way when Jeff and Dr. Joe came to check him out and then pull him from the game. You know, Kyle fought for it. He was in full on lawyer mode trying to, you know, here's the evidence. He doesn't should. You know, okay, you know. And he said he debated with Jeff for 15 minutes.

He offered to sign a waiver to counter Jeff's mention of them having a legal duty. He brought up James being injured, but his tribe making the decision because I knew that his tribe wasn't going to vote him out. But all the lawyering in the world wasn't going to change this decision. The doctors held sway over the lawyer there. Yeah. It's unfortunate. He tried. Yes, he tried.

All right. So we can wait. not wait we can move into the long-awaited rule too which says not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret you know what I don't think Jenna had any problems here let's just move on oh my all right I'm curious

I'm curious if perhaps Lindsay's point should be referenced in this rule as opposed to waiting for the appendix because I can't remember what I was going to talk about what was I going to say This is part of scheming and plotting too much, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would think that if you're too fast, too soon, too quick,

all of these ideas with like going after Surrey, I do think it's applicable here. Well, except the problem is she started going after Surrey before Surrey failed in the challenge. Oh, certainly, but that there's no. There's so many different reasons why they should vote out Surrey. I mean, but the problem was not just in who she went after in how she did it. Because this was clearly her biggest issue.

It intertwines with a few others. But like the moment we saw her coming up to people right off the bat and proposing they vote out, Ceree, I live posted on Blue Sky. Jenna is moving too quickly already. Someone is going to run back to Ceree and report on her. Oh, of course. And that is exactly what happened. There's just no.

what is Ceree most known for? Her social game, which means she is going to have social ties to people on her tribe, which means they're going to run back to her. And as soon as they reached their beach, we saw Jenna saying things like, I'm not here to play old school. I'm here to win.

I'm a little bit worried about Ceri's story. She has a great story. If you've watched all five seasons, she can plant things in your head, and then these people go with it. I would love to target Ceri. she's played five times she's a threat no matter what so yes all those things are there but she just ran around to tell other people she had just met she talked to savanna she

talked to yeah but they all agreed savannah agreed joe agreed um and i even remember like there was uh there was a scene where joe was like um he's he got kind of defensive i think he was like jenna i can't remember like how he said it but i his his his his response was basically like, you know, Jenna is the, is, is going to be more loyal to us. Why wouldn't we vote out three? I can't remember like how his response was, but I, which showed me that Joe was like actually considering

Jenna's, Jenna's suggestion. Oh, I think Joe and Savannah were. They were the only, why didn't they vote out to read? I mean, aside from the fact that we're here to discuss. I know, I know, but, well, did you happen to see that there was a clip? on Paramount Plus.

I forgot to check. I forgot. Oh. Oh. Was there a secret? Jamie. I'm so ashamed. I feel like, I feel like in my humble opinion, I've said that twice now.

They screwed up and they showed us a secret scene that they should not have shown us. Oh, why was it? It was them all disgusting how they think they might have made the wrong choice and shouldn't have voted out, Jenna. And this is like, this seems. like it should be like next week secret. Oh, well, but they also, they did carry past the tribal council to get to the Kyle stuff. So I guess technically it was part of,

oh, that's true. So we're talking about how like they were like, I don't know, maybe. And when I say they, we've got, I have to look at pictures here. So I remember everybody's names. But Emily and Rick and Christian were all talking about how they might have screwed up. and they probably like did we did we pick the wrong person maybe we shouldn't have voted out jena and then all this and then they start talking about Aussie and then also an Aussie came up and was bringing them coconuts and they're like and he came up from like behind them but it was really quite fascinating because they were like actually discussing we might have screwed up here maybe we shouldn't have voted the way that we did i mean it i mean you'll find we'll find out as things go on you know what happens but i think that they discussed and discussed they came to an answer and they just settled on it but The problem was, like I said, if she went to these people she had just met instead of forming relationships, how can she trust them all?

How can they trust her? And I think it, again, goes back to her pregame interviews. And what we immediately flagged this massive overconfidence that she thought she could come in and control everything. Do you believe at all what she claims in her exit press about? So this is where we have to get into that. Because most people listening know that in her probably know in her post game interview, she's been telling a very different story. So there are multiple parts to this.

So this is going to take a while for us to weave our way through here. So, you know, I'm going to try and break it up into different pieces. So it makes sense. So she's been claiming she lost because she was on the bottom from the moment she arrived and others had pregame alliances she wasn't a part of. Now, Rick Devons at least has been. very vocal on social media and responding to these interviews.

And we'll get to more in a moment. He has something for almost every one of these parts. But for this claim in particular, he said, oh, no, she said, I think that's a whole manufactured thing with those three from the get-go before the game even started. Those three being Christian, Devons, and Emily. Evans replied, whatever helps you sleep at night. Like directly to her? No, to, to Dalton, when Dalton posted that point.

And then, and I think, my opinion, yes, that's what this is. Jenna telling a different story from what actually happened. And because, again, as we go through here, we'll discuss some of the points where what she says just does not line up. So let's start with one that I think is the most easily disprovable. her claim in her interviews that Christian masterminded everything and that he planted the idea of Surrey in her mind and then sent his task boy Devons to tell Surrey now I can't 100% speak to the veracity of the first point

maybe Christian does see Surrey as a threat he's smart anyone would see her as a threat sure maybe even they had that conversation she claims that they had, where he's, where he told her. She did a very specific. She did. Example. Anne said, put Christian in front of me and I will, you know, we can have this conversation.

And I don't think she's going to say that if she's lying. I don't think she's lying about that. Right. I do think there's a couple of issues here. One, just because you say someone's the biggest threat, listen to, when you listen to her story, it kind of changed a few times as she told it. But the key part of it was a Christian was going to sit next to the person who he saw as the biggest threat. That's not the same thing as saying this is the person I want to vote out.

You can acknowledge someone is a big threat without saying they're the first one I want to vote out. Those are two different things. And I think Jenna may not have realized that. Two, when did this happen time wise? you know sometimes things get messed up in memory. Did this happen first? Did that happen first? Everything we saw indicate she was bringing up her,

Ceres name first. She made it sound like he was the first one to say it. But in the preseason, she told Mike Bloom she wanted Cerea out before the game even began. In a confessional, she said, I wanted to take the swing from the second. I stepped on the sand day one, because I think she's one of the biggest threats.

that sure seems to contradict her later claim that Christian was the one planting it, which, you know, then Devin's mentioned on social media. Once she said, seri, I'm sure each and every one of us was like, oh, yeah, siri, for sure. So this goes back to the agreement. Because, yeah, of course, if you know someone is going to say that name, you're going to nod your head and agree. Yes. Of course. You want somebody to say a name.

Say a name. Right. You say it first. It's like, who do you want? No, who do you want? No, who do you want? You say that first. You say it.

Okay, we're going to say it at the same time. Ready, one, two, three, go. Yeah. I mean, this goes back to her not reading the room, which I talked about earlier of her not understanding that I don't know means you're in trouble. You know, just thinking that just because people agreed with you, that doesn't mean they actually agree with you. And so I think in her memory, whether on purpose or not,

she has the order wrong in terms of who suggested seri first, especially since Devin's also said, everyone knew on social media, everyone knew Jenna's plan because there was no subtlety. And, yeah, you know, again, if you know someone's targeting someone else, you nod along with them. Why would you ever say anything?

Yeah. Yeah, she didn't really seem very subtle in the approach that she took with everyone. It was pretty aggressive and and I do think that there is something to be said about the actual like talking through something with someone because you do like to make the other person feel like they're part of the decision and they're part of the process. And that was not how she was presenting this idea to anyone that she talked. It was very much like, yes, sorry, we're voting for straight, right? You're good. Okay. This is what we're doing.

And didn't really give them. chance and it wasn't until she talked with Ozzie where Ozzy was like uh wait what like that's where that no is that what we're doing so you know i i do think that it was a lot of people just kind of placating her in the moment because it was just like moving her along right you were like oh yeah yep yep yeah we sure yes yes and then if they if they did make the decision to go with her well she was done the wiser and if they made the decision to get rid of her, it didn't matter. You know, she never had to be any of the wiser.

Right. Now, even more disprovable is the second part of what she had said about Christian ordering Devin's to do the dirty work. She is making a huge assumption, and we know what we say about assumptions, based on Christian Spock and Kirk analogy. And it is a huge stretch. Like, again, like the assumptions in pregame interviews. I'm going to control this person or that person, which, again, how did that work out for, you know, Christian to be her lackey? Christian went from being her lackey to being the mastermind of everything that went wrong for her. And no, Devin's came out and said he saw this interview.

He was not happy. He responded to say that the reason he went to Surrey was Jenna was not including him and her plans. It wasn't that Christian told him to go do that. Like I said, this is a huge assumption on her part. So she's got these things that she's out there saying that are simply untrue. Yeah, but didn't, I read something today where, and it looked like a quote, and I double checked it because I wanted to make sure it wasn't like part of the article. And she said, like, watch, I'm going to be the brains and I'm going to have Devin's do the hard work or the heavy work.

Gert is it was something like that. Well, he said that in the episode. But that was him talking about that Kirk and Spock thing where he, where it was like what he, what he clearly, because he was talking about Devin's going out and getting idols and, you know, stuff like that. He didn't mean like,

oh, I'm the full boss of, of Devons and I'm going to tell him, you go tell Ceree this, which is how he framed it. Plus, if she knows Star Trek at all, Kirk is the captain. Spock is the first officer. Spock does not give orders.

Star Trek is not a flex, David. Like, no. No, wrong audience. Are you getting muscles? That was amazing. I'm trying to look like Mike White. I mean, I'm not ready to rip my shirt. Oh my God.

My point on the cutest. Can we? My wife being ripped was not on my bingo card. I'm sorry. Like, what is happening? Did you hear him? He goes, I've been waiting months for this month. moment and like I'm not going to lie.

I waited months for that moment to like get on Survivor and be like, look at a lot. Like I've been training. It's hard. You spend so much time like getting ready for it. So yeah. And I also thought it was super cute when someone was like, do you hate when people like fall all over you? He's like, no, I love it. Yeah.

I was like, yes. Yes. But I also thought it was fascinating like during the actual challenge when people were like, oh my God, look at my. right. Like, they were just, I mean, it was just a moment between, like,

two of the players. It wasn't even like, they were just, like, just in awe over, like, what? This was like, this is incredible.

Anyway, sorry, a little tangent there, but you brought him up. Yeah. It needed to be mentioned. Yes. Because, yes,

he's, wow, that was impressive, Mike, quite. Very important. Can I put, like,

a little asteric next to this conversation? Here's the thing. I watched him give a speech. And, and he, it was like a pretty big award that he got and then he brought up Survivor. And then when...

Second Academy Award. It's something like that. It was pretty big. And I thought to myself, like, I'm part of the family that is the same family that he's talking about right now. Like, he's done such big things and he is still name-dropping Survivor. And I just... And he's back, you know?

Yes. And he's like crying because he's so excited to be out there. And like, from the second he left until the second... he came back. Like those are the lessons that he's using when he's teaching, you know, and talking to other people. I don't know.

Yeah. I just, I'm like, Survivor's a big deal. All right. Well, we've taken this break from, from talking about all the things that Jenna did wrong.

No, you know, it's fine. Now we could go back into it. Still in Rule 2 here. Because Jenna also claimed in her interviews that she wasn't actually playing harder than anyone else. She said,

just look at the other tribes. And people have alliances. to the end and they're already talking about who they want to vote off. Except that wasn't really true. She watched it three times, she said in her interviews, and she still didn't get that. Not true. She's clearly watching it through a distorted lens.

Were alliances forming? Sure. But it was happening more naturally. They were evolving. We talked about this in Rule 1, about Kyle having multiple different alliances that formed throughout the days. He didn't run up to people and be like, Colby, Hugh, other girl.

You want to, you know, be in an alliance with me, you know, Angelina, Aubrey, you know, he specifically talked about, oh, I sent this person over there and I did this and I'm keeping this secret. And it was a very, very different situation from which she did. Yes. Well, and I do think that there's something kind of that I think happens with Survivor is, it's like the Monday morning quarterbacking idea of it, right? You want to try to legitimize or justify what you.

you did. And right now, she's in a position where no one else is talking to the press except Kyle. And Kyle doesn't know what she necessarily. But that's the thing now. When she was playing Survivor before, the other players couldn't really check you, right? Because there was no social media. It was like, oh, if you went on the morning show and said whatever about the season, okay, that's what you said. Yeah, they'd be emailing me and saying, David, just so you know what that person said isn't true. Right.

There isn't this immediate reaction, which is now it's like, and I'm just going to say this, but welcome to like the new era survivor where it's like you say something and you've got so many people who are going to come on to all of the social media platforms and go, yeah, no, here are the receipts. I'm going to tell you this. I'm going to say that.

and this idea that like people aren't supposed to interact with each other in social media, I think Survivor just throwing that out the out the window at this point, because everybody interacts and everyone's doing whatever they want. It's a free for all. It is free for all. So her idea of like, I'll sit across from Christian and I will say these things, well,

that could very well happen as soon as Christian gets a chance to start responding himself about all of these things. And so I do think that there is that idea as well where you're trying to like, be defensive and come back, well, this is why I did what I did. Well, now you have Devin's telling us that maybe that's not actually what happened and that there is another side to this version that she is providing. So difference in time as well when it comes to the way that Survivor is now played because it's played out in social media a lot.

You mentioned Devin's and he did respond to this claim when she made it to Dalton Ross. and he said, I think there's a big difference between playing hard establishing relationships, which the rest of Sela did, and playing hard throwing out names, which only Jenna did before losing the immunity challenge. So bingo, she can say you're playing hard, but there's, no, there's playing hard, and then there's doing with Jenna.

Yeah. So, so let's, you know, with that, I want to look at, what other players on the tribe said. After Jenna questioned Ozzy and kind of broke him momentarily there, he, you know, when he froze. I made a video smoke coming out of his ears. You know, he told us Jenna's amped up ready to go, coming in hot, ready to play the game hard. During discussions in the episode, Ozzy talked to Emily Joan Christian about how Jenna would be more of a liability going

forward. And Christian added, we're all going to be playing around her game and who's she going to throw out next. And Emily said, she's a loose candidate. When Surrey was casting her vote at Tribal Council, we found out from Mike and Dalton, because we didn't see it on the show, that she said, Jenna, you decided to come for me when I had zero intention of coming for you. And Savannah said when voting, I'm so sorry, I genuinely wanted to rock with you on day one, but you were just a little too intense and fast for these people. And even in Jenna's own final words after being voted out,

you know, I mentioned part of this in Rule 1. She talked about how maybe she over course corrected, saying, going into this, I really did do a lot of research. So I talked about that on this new era. And I had heard how fast it was. So I was like, okay, I'm going to be really prepared to start playing fast.

So that's what I did. As for the others on SELA, not so much. they didn't really start playing the game. Nobody did. Nobody even wanted to talk strategy for the first two days. So even me talking strategy, Joe was the first one tonight right before Tribal, which is when I knew that my name would be coming up.

When he said that my name had come up for being too aggressive, aggressive, I'm like, Jesus, I thought this was the game. Was I being aggressive? Isn't Survivor aggressive? Are you guys not playing the same game?

If you guys want to sit around without somebody playing aggressive, to say kumbaya, then that's what you get. And I'm like, except it's not what they got. It's what she got. Again, not for playing the game, but for playing the way she chose to go about it. And like I mentioned, Devin said, others were establishing relationships. She was throwing out names. And, you know, all the while on the other tribe where she said the same thing was happening, Kyle is telling us, This is not chess. This is not poker. You build the relationships.

Then you play the game. It was a good contrast between our two people who went out here. Yeah, I would say so for sure. And then you just get different vibes. Like, I'm a firm believer that if somebody says, like, it's too early to start talking strategy or it's too early to throw out names, you're in trouble. They're strategizing and they're throwing out names.

It's just slow in the year. Yeah. So keep that in mind because, I mean, you can have somebody that comes off strong. And I think it just takes like, that's a great thing about Survivor is like it's different people. Like somebody else that maybe you're just, you happen to have a better connection with on day one, throws out a name. You're not going to be offended. You're not going to accuse them of coming off too strong. You're not going to accuse them of being paranoid, right? And sometimes you just can't control it, right?

Yeah. And that was the thing. yes, were other people talking strategy? Sure. To each other after they had established that they wanted to work together. Right. You know, not just, I'm going to run to different people and tell them, Surrey, sure, sure, sure.

Absolutely. Because that's how she was trying to bring people in to connect them. And I think you're right. You have to switch the two. Right. Yeah. Dalton Ross asked her if she came in too hot and she said, it wouldn't have mattered.

Oh, hell yes, it would have. I mean, it would have. it would have made all the difference in the world. Yeah. I mean, I like Jenna. But, I mean, you may not be able to tell from, you know, so far we're on, you know, hour 20 here. But she has just made, she just has this scenario that she made up in her head that she's going around presenting as if it were fact. Much like her pregame interviews where she presented as fact that she was going to do this and that and the other thing and control all these people.

the scenario she's talking about now, I mentioned this earlier, but I want to mention again, the stuff she's talking about now does not contribute to her loss. She already lost. She lost eight months ago or however long it was. But we have just had to spend a whole bunch of time talking about it

because she is trying to contradict or downplay the part of her game that did contribute quite a bit. And that is our job here is to determine it's right there in the name. Why Jenna lost? Well, if she's contradicting things, if she's giving a different version, we have to dig in.

We're not going to just accept it because she said it when it contradicts the facts. Yeah. And then when you have other players that are already speaking out about it too. Yeah. So, yeah.

All right. So I think we can finally move away from Jenna here. I believe we're roughly 20, 20 minutes in rule two here. But we maybe longer. I don't remember. We really don't have anything to say about Kyle. And, you know, it could be said, well, it was really too soon for that to have happened. But in response, I refer to the past 20 minutes or so that we just spent discussing Jenna. And, and, you know, I even look back at my notes from our why Kyle One podcast. We didn't have any issues to talk about for him in this rule then either. So. So I think he's good here. Yeah, I agree. All right, we can move on to the third rule, which tells players to be flexible.

Lindsay, do you think Jenna was flexible? I did not see any flexibility. And I'm not sure if that's because they needed to keep a specific narrative. I'm trying to keep open-minded here. But I didn't hear her saying, like, do you have any other suggestions? is there anybody else you might recommend again, who are you thinking?

Are you comfortable with this? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think also with her idea of coming into the game was interesting because she had really already determined

who her targets were going to be. She was very much like the winner's got to go, which I can get behind. Like I can understand if you can bring people together because you can all find a common denies. nominator as to why someone should be voted out. That's fine. Savannah was there and she, I guess, forgot about what she had been focusing on as far as being a winner. And she also says that Savannah told her before Savannah told everyone else that she had won her season and also that she won four immunity challenges, which Savannah is like, I didn't tell anybody that because nobody needs to know.

So I'm curious about that too. but I do think that she was very clear in her pre-game press as well about how Ceres got to go. I mean, she was very clear about that too. So I do think that she came into this group kind of with pre-determined ideas of people instead of taking time to say, could Ceree help me as opposed to me pushing her aside immediately? And I think to your point, Lindsay, you were talking about this as well, but like that idea of like old school, like, if they're going to play a slower game, I'm going to go talk to them so we can all kind of play a slower game together.

That probably would have been a benefit for her as well. Instead of this, like these ideas, she came in with a plan of how to play the game and didn't make any adjustments once she got into the game and realizing what was going to work versus what wasn't going to work. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think it's pretty clear, you know, based on what we discussed in the first two rules or what

you two just said. She was anything but flexible. You know, she, you already mentioned everything. And, and I mean, I'm looking through my notes. You two just, you two just combined to go through most of, most of what I had written down, you know. And, and. Well, I have a point that we haven't talked about with not being flexible. And I'm not sure if this is a good spot to bring it up.

But, you know, one of the things that I found fascinating was this whole time, she just keeps talking about how she came in. and she felt behind because there were all these teams, these couples. And I think one of the ways she should have been flexible is instead of looking at it as like this disadvantage, how many times do you see a game of Survivor where you've got duos and they automatically become a target? Why? Because there's two instead of one. Right? So instead of looking at it is like Colby and stuff are together or, you know, Ozzy and Surrey are together. what you need or you know what you need to do is you need to be focusing on like that and using it pointing out the disadvantage of having these couples in the game or or almost letting

them kind of blow up on their own right you've got this like Aussie coach situation that's going on it could have gone either way but we knew which way it was going to go right we knew that that eventually they were going to butt heads and sometimes you want to sit back and just kind of let that happen. The other thing you've got to realize in the game of Survivor and the new era is like, I was telling my husband earlier today, we were talking about the exit press and I said, look, you could put me, Owen, Cassidy and James who are like super, super tight on an island and it's every man for himself. Like it does not matter if like they're going to be like the people that are like giving eulogies at my funeral. Like that's how close we are. It's every man for himself in

this game. And she needed to come in realizing that like friendships as nice as they are outside of the game, they don't matter in this game because we all respect the game and we all want to get ahead and we're not going to blame the other person, you know, for doing a sturdy. I don't know. Right. I mean, I think that they are good at the beginning. Yes. I think. Yeah. The first shot right away. That's fair. That's fair. This is why she needed to, you know, go into that Bush, like I said, like Homer Simpson. You know, let things develop. Those three, you know.

And drive that wedge. Like, figure out the different ways that you can drive a wedge between the two players. Yeah. Devon's Christian and Emily are not going to be the final three. I guarantee it. Okay. It's just. They're not.

Okay. But if, but don't you think just, I mean, don't you think that, um, Jenna has the right to be upset when she hears Christian say something. thing. Actually, she didn't hear it until after the fact, though, right? Yeah. She heard it. And she has every right. If I heard that and I was a player, I'd be pretty pissed too. If you've got somebody that's saying they're one of my best friends outside, if you haven't played the game in so long and you don't know how people are respecting the new game of Survivor and, like, loyalty and friendships kind of out the window. But the thing is, she could have done more research. Anyone who was out there. I agree. could have known Christian and Emily on the regular played blood on the clock tower together.

It's out there on RHAP. It's got, you know, Stephen Fishback, I believe runs the games. I've never watched one of them. I'd keep meaning to, but I never have watched one of them. I knew that the two of them played regularly together. Okay? And we're probably friends. Anyone who is doing research could have done that.

Well, it's also the game. When I sign up to play the game, the rules aren't fair. Survivor is not always fair. Especially in a returning player season, which was mentioned already. She knew pregame stuff happened. If she had taken more time,

instead of just doing research and determining that things move quick, look at relationships. Other people saw the list. I would talk to everybody's social media. because I'd be like, who's partying with who? Who's hanging out with who? Who's going on vacation? I know who's going and hanging out with Owen

every time they're down there for Marty Gras. Yeah, you pay attention to that stuff. Kyle's there? Yes. There were lists. There were leaked lists of who was going to be on long before this made it out there. She could have found them just as easily as anyone else.

Right, right. I kind of liken it to like doing the puzzles and all the things that you're supposed to do. do to prepare for the game, I feel like it's every man for himself. They tell you at casting finals, like the game has already started. Yeah. It's already started. It's fair game.

Yeah. And I mean, even in casts that aren't returning players, I know either one of you have mentioned this. I don't remember who. You saw people at casting finals who you then saw in the game and you felt a little connection to them because. You had seen them there. You know, I mean, it's not the same thing as playing blood on the clock tower with someone every week or two.

But yeah, you know, these you don't know. And, I mean, you, sorry, you don't know what you don't know. You could have known. That's a lot of knowing that. But she could have done the research. I know they're all told, not that most of them listen, but they're all told, don't pregame. But there's pre-gaming and there's pre-researching. even if she didn't want to break the rules and reach out to these people ahead of time,

she still could have found out who's who, who's associated with who and who might be out there. Yeah, well, but the thing that's interesting about this whole idea of like, no pregame, people do it anyway. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's interesting because every time there was some like inkling that they might be bringing like players back, it was weird who would suddenly be calling me. It's like all of a sudden you're getting phone calls. And I'm like, oh, well, it's been a long time since we've chatted, isn't it? And it's, and I, so I always knew when, like, the buzz was happening because my phone would be ringing.

And there'd be questions like, so, uh, have you, anyone, you know, anything? Did you get any phone calls recently? Yeah. So it is a very, but it's also like, is this a test? Am I getting in trouble? Like, I don't know what's going to happen? I'm not going to say anything yet. Here's a thing, though.

And I can't remember who said it, but you can't put that much weight into pregame alliances because it all goes out the window the second you hit the sand. And that's because it's like when you've got an alliance and then a tribe splits up and someone goes to a new tribe. You have to protect yourself. you can't always stay loyal. Otherwise, you're not going to stay in the game.

And I think any good player knows that. And it works both ways because Colby said in pregame, oh, that cue, he's in trouble. He did too much pre-gaming. Well, now they're an alliance together. That's what I'm saying. Like, you never know. It's obvious on the situation out there.

Yeah, and certainly people who have known each other for a long time, like Colby and that other woman, you know, they have, you know, that's a little bit different. Or like I said, if you play games with someone on the regular and maybe you talk to them, who knows, I don't know if they talk offline. I have no way I'm doing. You know, yes, there are situations that are more conducive to that type of situation. Sure.

But then try to get in with those people. If you know they're tight, you could do one of two things. you could try to get in with them. You can, well, one of a few things. You can try to be a swing. Okay, we've got a two-person group over here. We've got a three-person group over here. We've got Savannah and Joe as the outliers.

We can swing one way or the other maybe. But she didn't, they didn't find out who they want to swing to. She, instead of, she made the mistake we so often see. Someone who's a swing vote comes up and gives us the old. confessional, I'm in control of everything now. Because I'm the swing vote. I get to determine everything. And then what happens, everybody joins together and votes that person.

Votes them out. I mean, it's literally rule two on our poster. It's right here. You know, I'm kind of blocking it right here when that was happening with Christy. You know, and she was like, oh, I choose between the women and the guys. It's totally up to me. And she wouldn't give them an answer. And they joined together and got rid of her.

thanks to, you know, thanks to our boss, Rob Sester Nino. So it wasn't exactly the same, but it was, it was similar enough that, yeah, when you think, when you're acting like you're in charge, no, if you want to be the swing vote, find out who they want to vote for. And then decide what you want to do. But she did it totally the opposite. So, all right. Well, we can move on to Kyle still in Rule 3 being flexible. and, you know, we discussed in the first rule how he had not one, not two, but three different multi-person alliances.

And he had at least two people, maybe three, who believed he was their number one. He was about as flexible as a player can be. It's just too bad. He was never able to put it to use. Part of his really wasn't that flexible. I was waiting for you to say that. It also comes as like, it's all about like aggressiveness. too, right? So if you've got somebody who's a little bit more aggressive in conversations,

it can come off as a little bit controlling, whereas somebody like Kyle, who is trained to speak in front of people, I say that as somebody who's married to a lawyer and talking with a lawyer right now. But it's the way he presents himself. It's the way that he might suggest somebody versus the way Jenna might do it. And both are doing the same thing, but it's It's the way that they're going about it that I think with Kyle, even if he's not being as flexible as we think he are, he's coming across as flexible. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like lawyers do that a lot. I say that as somebody, because I, whenever I argue with my husband, like, you know, or he wants me to make a decision based off of what his needs are.

Like, it's the way that he asks it. He makes it seem like it's my suggestion when it's. Well, yeah. And there's, I mean, even in, even, you know, when I was at work, there are ways you do that. I mean, my boss was a lawyer for a long time. But there are ways you do things like, like, okay, we have to send this memo to upper management. We want them to make a decision.

There are three options. Okay. We want one of those options. We think the other two suck. Well, we're the ones writing the memo. So we can describe them however we want. we can present them how we want. And even in the order matters,

I have heard that if you want someone to pick a certain option, always give it to them less. Yeah. You know, now in a memo, that doesn't necessarily work because they can read back. But if you're giving a presentation or a phone call or something like that or on Survivor,

give them the last option last because then they're not holding out, waiting for, okay, what are the other things? Yeah. And yes, it's all about how you present it. Yeah, absolutely.

And I'll use my own game as an example. It was the way that I presented the material to James and Carla that, in my opinion, like, got me voted off. It was the same way that they talked about me and my paranoia being a liability. It was the way that they were talking about Jenna being a liability. And the way that Christian was like, it'll all of a sudden be her game where she's calling the shots. she's controlling it. Yeah. Right.

I think, I think ferocity was used. So. All right. Well, we can move on to the fourth rule, which tells players

not to let their emotions control them. And Jessica, when do you think of Jenna here? Well, this will be an interesting kind of mix because I think

Jenna came into this game, feeling like she needed to present herself in a very particular way and wanting to play a game a particular way. And so I don't know if she was necessarily, if that's her emotions controlling what she's doing, but it's making game decisions from a different and incorrect place.

It's not making a decision based upon the game and what's happening in the game. It's making a decision based upon how you want other people to necessarily feel about you or see you in this game. And so I just think that she was, she was using her emotions to play this game, but she wasn't necessarily like allowing them to control her game, which is strange because it sounds like it is, right?

But I feel like she's very much like not taking into consideration how her actions are going to make other people feel. And so there's that other layer of it as well where she might want them to perceive her particular way. And this is how I want to play this game. and they're looking at it and going, oh, my God, she's just going to, she's being controlling, and we're going to lose, we're not going to be able to make decisions. It's all going to be her. And so she's losing sight of how her decisions are necessarily going to make them feel,

which will then make them play their game a particular way. And so it's just kind of this mix of emotions where I think she's trying to convince herself, I want to play this game hard and fast, and I'm going to make decisions and I'm going to control everything and not realizing that that's coming from a place that's not game related. It's more like how you want people to see you. And they didn't like that. Yeah. I think you made a great point.

Like I saw two different layers of, of the emotion aspect of this game too. I think if you were to ask Jenna, if she played an emotional game, she's going to tell you no, because she's going to tell you that she was making decisions based off of strategy. Of course we want to keep Surrey.

It's hurting me. it's making me almost want to cry or whatever she said, just saying her name out loud, right? So to her, she's like, I'm having to take the emotion out of it. But every conversation that she had out there had so much emotion involved in it that if she had taken the motion out of it

and been more logical with the way that she was having these conversations, I think we could then say that like, no, emotion wasn't an issue for her. But I definitely think emotion wasn't an issue. issue for her in this instance. Does that make sense? Yeah. See, I went, I went a little deeper here. Okay. I love it. Because I mentioned at the beginning of Rule 2 there, some things were intertwined. And this is one of those things to me because Jenna did say to Mike Bloom, the problem was it was an emotional thing. But it wasn't what you were talking about, the Surrey aspect. It was I felt on the outs.

I talked to Savannah about it. I was like those three, Emily, Evans and Christian. I didn't know anyone. I haven't had contact with anyone. The only person I knew was Colby. All I wanted to do was be on the tribe with Colby. We saw that other person and Colby and what did she talk about? Oh my gosh. How lucky am I? I trust him implicitly. We've worked together. We have a bond. I was like, God, that would have felt nice. So this is where it goes back to, right, the more, the deeper aspect of, I felt like I was on the bottom, therefore I fought like I was on the bottom.

Yeah, she wants to be at the cool kids table. Of course she does. We all do. Right. And that's the thing. Yes, it would have been nice. And we talked about this a little bit already.

But that's not the situation where you found yourself. Like we just said, you have to be flexible. You can't go into the game expecting to be on the same tribe as the one person you know. But more important than that is how you react once you're there. Jenna's reaction was to complain and overplay. Even without having someone she knew,

that doesn't mean you're automatically on the outs. We were just talking about that. You need to ensure you find a way in. She was not just an old school player, the oldest school player. Why not talk to Surin Ozzie about working together instead of immediately declaring a serial enemy? Why not talk to Devin's more, which she said she planned to?

Why not try to work more with Christians since she claimed they had all these discussions? And when I say work with, again, this is not just naming names right away. It's get to know people, build trust and rapport. Right. Yeah. And maybe that it's not that she didn't necessarily do it. But there's when you only have eight people, six people on a tribe, there's got to be two people that get a the least. So it may not even be like, oh, she's not likable at all.

But if Devons or Christian or somebody, they're looking, you're looking for the one person. You're looking for a reason to make somebody an outlier. Yeah, but she gave it. She handed it to them on a silver. That's my point. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Just like I said, fade into the bush. You know, I mean, you know, that could be our gift motto for this, this episode here. And I mentioned in Rule 1, she kept saying in her interviews that she was, quote, on the bottom from the start. It just doesn't seem to be true. But again, she acted like it was, which caused her to be on the bottom. You know, Rob, beat me to the punch by saying, and I believe it was his discussion with Sophie, that it was a self-fulfilling prophet. And that's really what it was.

Yeah, that does. make a lot of sense because if you if you feel a particular way with the group of people that you are with well then maybe that's what you're going to lean into that right because you feel like well they don't like me anyway so it doesn't matter I'm just going to do what I want and I'm going to be the way that I want and then when they don't like it you can be like well it's their it's their fault because they didn't accept me and then it made me feel a particular way when yeah maybe maybe you should just act it a little different And that would have been a different response.

Yeah. Now, as for Kyle, I really don't have anything to say about him here other than that he seemed to be doing a great job. As we discussed, multiple alliances and those included people that he really liked. But of course, he was going to have to cut at least some of them at some point. And he knew that. He didn't last long enough to make that decision. But I have no doubt he would have followed through. Listen, I think that's going to be the way that you just post about this.

I don't really have much to say about him. I mean, yeah, you know, but he was doing well in what we saw. Well, right. You know, now also a lot of players who sustained an injury like him would be overcome by their emotions and just moping around camp. We've seen it before. Oh, yes. And he did not.

No, he was shoring up relationships to ensure he could stay. Well, if he could stay, then he would stay. He wouldn't get voted out. Yeah. So. Yeah. No, he was doing a great job. Kyle, you're great.

All right, let's move to the fifth rule, which reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game. And, you know, a lot of what we've already discussed about Jenna probably could have been addressed here as well. It's just one of those situations. Yeah. It was a combination of her not making allies and also not making friends or at least connections. She said in her pregame interviews, she was going to make friends and then slit throats. But she forgot that first step. she came in with that razor blade of slashing and went right for the throat of one person in particular.

Yeah. And I think what we might not have seen. I mean, she does talk about how she was like sitting and having conversations with various people. She mentioned, I don't know, some computer game or something that she was talking to someone about. And so, Fortnite, thank you. Was she having conversations with people? It sounds like she was because what else are you going to do when you're out there, right? but talk to people.

But I think there's, it's like, it's like a multi-step process when you're trying to form these relationships with people because, yeah, you want to get to know you, but it's in the back of everyone's mind.

Are we going to play this game together? And how do you, how do you approach that topic? It's like when you want to tell somebody, I like you. You know, it's like, how do you get there without offending them?

You want to make sure that they kind of feel the same way. So you have to, you have to kind of play that game. And if you haven't gotten a read from them in Ponderosa, then you don't necessarily know what they're going to say. Maybe you didn't read and it makes it easier. But there has to be something that like kind of brings you together so you can broach that topic. And I feel like that was the step that was really like, I'm missing for her where she was like, oh, well, we talked about Fortnite.

Okay, do want to vote out to read? You know, and it was like, wait, wait, time out. Like, we're not there yet. Like, we're not going on our first date yet. Like, we, there's other things we have to talk about first. And I feel like that's because she thought it had to move so fast that it was like, okay, yeah. Yeah, Fortnite, great. Know who you are.

And now I want to tell you what I want to vote out kind of idea. And there are steps that you have to take when you're creating these relationships, trying to decide if you're going to play the game with them. Well, let me build on that because I think you make a great point. I think authenticity needs to be recognized here as well. Like Jenna mentioned in one of her exit interviews that, you know, she was having individual conversations. trying to relate to people.

One of the examples she gave was like with Christian. She's like, I told her, him, my son is into robots. He's not into robots. If you're trying to talk Christian about robots and you don't know anything about robots, but you're telling Christian you know about robots, he's going to know right away that you don't have shit about robots. And that comes off inauthentic. It is better for you to ask him questions.

What I've come to realize about people. And this is very often. authentic with me, but people still love it. They're not mutually exclusives. People love to tell you something that they know that you don't. Right? So for me, it wasn't me trying to have fake conversations out there. Some people even have a podcast doing that.

Yeah. And they love it. And so I think a conversation like that becomes more authentic than if you're like, oh yeah, I totally play Fortnite. And they're like, my son totally does robots. I don't know. I think all this authenticity. needs to play in here. I also noticed that somebody said

Surrey and Jenna came in, not getting along. And so while Surrey said she didn't have a problem with Jenna, I find it very fascinating that somebody else on their tribe said they didn't like each other. I don't know if you guys picked up on that. No, I missed that.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll go back and find it, David, and try to send it to you. But because Jessica, I know you don't care what David. I do. I totally do.

I know, but you're moving up to the next episode. And I know David will make TikToks about it. Oh my God, he will. Yes. Look, this is teamwork. This is teamwork. That's right. Now, you mentioned Christian.

And one thing that Christian said in a confessional was particularly interesting to me. He was considering the decision like, do I vote out Surrey or do I vote out Jenna? And he said, Shari is more emotional and open. And he was looking for people he could connect with. He wasn't getting that out of Jenna. Yeah. I mean, probably because she was too busy trying to make him her lackey. But, you know, the whole, like, I wonder if that came out of the inauthentic conversations like you just mentioned.

You know, it's. People can tell when conversations are real and when they're not. Yeah. Yeah. Now again, as for Kyle, I think from our Rule 1 discussion, it's very clear that he had an amazing social game going. In addition, Genevieve said, I totally get how Kyle won his season. He is so

charismatic. Angelina, who I mentioned, came to him and said, you know, she wanted him as her number one, said, Kyle's the heart of this camp. He didn't just have strategic relationships with everyone. He had friendships with them as well. He talked

about it. He felt better about these few days than he did in some ways about his whole season that he won. Yeah. Even with some people he knew he'd have to go against. Like Aubrey and Angelina, he talked about how much he liked them as people.

It just seemed very much like the feelings were all mutual there. Right. Yeah. Again, Kyle's just killing it. Yeah. But unfortunately, they're staying the game. Yeah. Here's the thing. We're bringing back returning players. There's a reason

why they're returning players. They're all likable. Yeah. Like, you've already filtered through not only the entire casting process but you've also filtered through like you've taken the best of the best of all of like these amazing seasons like my mind would be blown being out there

with all of my favorite players. So yeah I don't know I also wonder like how much that plays a part and how these new school players are playing how much of their like fandom and them like falling over these like old school players, I'm curious to see how that's going to play out moving forward. Yes.

I have a theory. Oh, I want to hear it. Can I talk about it now, David? I suppose. Okay. So I have a theory just about how. Go ahead. Okay.

I do think that it is going to end up coming down to like an old school versus new era kind of universe with season 50 and that the old school people, are going to kind of come together, but they're going to need, like, some help with the game. And Rizzo is going to be that guiding force. I think that Rizzo is going to bring them together and kind of like get them through because you can already see it happening with Colby. He'll become Riz guide. Basically, he will become Riz guide because there's a couple of things here at play, right?

You have Colby who was initially like, oh, this kid is so annoying. Like, he won't shut up. Like, he talks all the time. But he said it in a very Colby way because he's very cold. he's very kind. And then he was like, you know what? It's really growing on me. And I'm realizing he's the same age I was when I was out, you know, playing a survivor.

I don't know if it was Australian survivor when he came back. But needless to say, he's starting to appreciate Rizzo. And I think that that is going to be something that Colby leans in on because he's like, I'm going to need Rizzo moving forward. And I think that that's going to kind of be the following, you know, where Rizzo is going to be like, oh, I see what's happening. They're going to try to start getting rid of all the new era players because they're scary and they, you know, they play this game that we don't really understand. We need someone to help us. And it will be Rizzo and he will be leading the charge with the old school, you know, old timers, if you will, of Survivor.

And I just, that's what I see happening. That's my theory. I think Rizzo will be the Riz guide in addition to the Riz God. And he is going to make it work for him and his game. into life. It is, you know, it's funny. This just occurred to me as you were discussing that. Colby with Rizzo went through what viewers went through, with not all viewers, but what a number of viewers went through with Rizzo through the season.

Like a bunch of people were like, we hate him, we hate him, we hate him. Oh, you're actually kind of growing on us as the sea, as last season went on. Colby went through that in like three days, you know? Yes. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He did. I thought it was really sweet.

Like, when I first heard Colby, say that. Yeah. I remember watching it and I thought Rizzo's heart's going to break when he sees Colby's like, Colby saying that. And then I also thought like, what a horrible thing for them to include. And then to see

Colby come around. I gotta be honest with you, like, my kids were like that when they first met Rizzo because we were all hanging out at like a basketball game and he comes in and he's a lot. And he's exactly what Colby explains. Like he's the heart of a tribe. He's the heart of a group. and he's so much fun.

And I really hope we get to see a lot of Roso this season. He's really fun to watch. I think there's a reason why we're seeing it now. Because it's going to matter. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see you have planted your flag. I planted my flag. Speaking of Colby, and while we didn't see it on the show,

one thing that I want to mention for this, you know, the social game aspect, the media on site told us, and then Kyle said in interviews that the only reason he injured himself was he had to jump back down after having already made it up that ramp because Colby couldn't get himself up the wall

and needed a boost. So again, even something like that is part of your overall social game showing that you can be counted on to help. And Kyle really downplayed it because some people were like, okay, does this mean Colby was to blame? And he's like, look, anyway,

it would have happened to anyone. He did a lot of work to try and lift people up there, and then he just could not get back up, you know, get up there himself. But yeah, he, you know, like I said, it's part of a social game. I'm willing to help you.

And it just cost him. Yeah. Yeah. So. All right. Well, the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat. And while Jenna was obviously a threat to Sheree, her behavior did extend to other people.

Of course, Ozzie wanted to work with Ceri. so she was a threat to him by extension. But even beyond that, I mentioned earlier, Emily called her a loose cannon. Christian said, we're all going to be playing around her game and whose name is she going to throw out next? That made her a potential threat in their eyes to all of them. Yeah. And I do think that when you, again, it's finding that commonality. It's finding that reason.

And why can we all kind of get behind this choice versus that choice? And I do think that when they started to weigh the options between, well, Surrey might be a liability. over here. However, we can connect with her and she's got social capital and like we can play with her as opposed to we don't know what Jen is going to be doing and that can be very scary. And I do think the fact they're not even looking at Savannah kind of like speaks volumes of like their concerns because they know nothing about Savannah except that she won her season. And so I think putting all of that really shines a light on just how concerned they really were with the unknown. that Jenna was necessarily presenting to them and this potential chaos that she was going to bring.

So, yeah, I completely agree. Why aren't we talking about the fact that it may have been the less chaotic choice? Maybe Jenna wasn't that chaotic, but maybe they all sat around and said, what's going to cause the least amount of waves and the least amount of chaos in this tribe right now? for this first photo. Yeah, I think that's definitely part of it also because Jenna didn't have anyone, whereas Ozzy, you know, I think they could have reeled in Ozzy afterwards. I don't think it would have completely broken him, although he was already broken by Jenna.

But, you know, why wasn't Ozzy worried that people were going to see him as a target because he's trying so hard to keep to rape? Because that's not how Ozzy thinks. He doesn't play Now as for Kyle He should have been viewed As a threat Considering everyone saw him win the game

Just a few days before flying out to Fiji But instead they were flocking to him for alliances Now you guys already mentioned It may have caught up with him at some point It probably would have caught up with him at some point But he sure looked set up well for now So that's all we can say there Yeah

That's all we can say about that Yes. The seventh rule covers idols and advantages and game mechanics. And, you know, Jenna didn't really have any interactions with anything like that. So unless I missed something or I'm forgetting something, I don't have anything here for us. Now, Kyle was told by Genevieve about her boomerang idol and contributed to the decision to give it to Ozzy. And also he was told by Q about his lost vote. We'll see, you know, if the Ozzy thing pays dividends for Genevieve. later in the game, but Kyle was unfortunately not able to reap any benefits for having all this information. Yeah, but obviously he was again in such a

great place. Yeah. Such a great place. All right, we could get to Appendix A here, which discusses players keeping their angles in mind when voting, and we talk about voting out the weak, then the strong, then the strong. Now, typically, at the first vote, we see a lot of discussion

of voting out the weakest, but one thing I need to remind everyone of being quote weak is not always a matter of physicality or challenges true we see this season after season how long did they keep banu in you know yeah oh my god I forgot about him yeah yeah being weak as an ally is usually more important And I don't know that we've ever seen a clearer case of that than we have here. There was three who very, very obviously blew the immunity challenge for her tribe and is known to not be strong in various other challenge related areas. And then there was Jenna who essentially had no allies. Weakness in the latter far outweighed weakness in the former.

Right. Yeah, no, I think that I do think that my dog wanted to come in and help with this. We love dogs. This is Echo, everyone. But yes, no, I do think that this is one of those things that people do end up for getting that weakness. It's multifaceted, especially in this game now, because, yes, there's a lot of things that the challenges are exceptional. and the challenges are very, you know, hard and arduous and all of these things. And there's always a puzzle at the end and these things that we all know, but that's not always what it just boils down to.

And I think that the fact that they're willing to keep Surrey speaks volumes, again, of the other issues that they saw keeping Jenna versus Surrey, where it's like, yeah, if you lose a challenge, guess what? You're going back to tribal council. And that's terrible. And nobody wants to do that. so the fact that they're putting more weight into the social game that seri is going to be presenting as opposed to the physical game that she will be bringing i think that's really it's a really telling story regarding the concerns that they had with jennet and what she was ultimately going to um cause for their trial

or for their for their tribe now lindsay i know you had wanted to talk about this so well i told you i mean i can't i think we covered it in two but um what was i going to say uh the thing that i loved about this episode especially with aussy is he just kept saying um she has other strengths yes he just kept like and he didn't even necessarily have to list them i think i think he did but i heard it a couple of times like she has other strengths it's just going to show you how in the game of survivor it's evolved so much because Joe saying let's keep the strength. That's an outlier idea.

Joe hasn't evolved. No. And so, of course, there's me who's like, yeah, Joe, like, you can't go to tribal. If you don't lose. And when you're looking at like an all-star cast versus a first-time player cast, does it really matter if your, if your All-Star tribe goes into the merge or whatever stacked? Because I don't know. It just seems like a different game.

as opposed to like first time play or play. And if that's the case, like maybe this is a great argument for a season where strength should be important, but clearly they're not making it a factor. Well, the other thing is, and this is something that Christian talked about

if you read into what he was saying to the rest of the tribe. He didn't, or at least we didn't see him lay it fully out, but he said, we clearly lost because of Ceres, part of the challenge. No, he definitely said that. He said. We cannot let that happen again. And I think that part,

what he was saying is we need to make better decisions. Like, yeah. Discussed because apparently Savannah was like, hey, listen, I just did this in my last week ago. And Sarie was like, well, I've done this on Australian Survivor

and I've been practicing this. Right, right. And so. And what do you say to that if you're Savannah? you say, yeah. Of course. You always want to let something. I mean, take it.

Surrey. Fuck it up yourself. I don't want to be the one to do it. Sorry. Marie, come on. We always talk about this. Don't volunteer to be the possible goat.

No, don't. And she felt really confident and didn't realize how that rope fence in front of her would totally mess her up. Yeah. You know, that's what happened. When she did it in Australia,

she could throw underhand. Well, there was a rope and there was a barrier in front of her that prevented her from doing that. And that's why, like, one of the tribes, they eventually just took it and shucked it overhand, like they were throwing a pitch, you know? And I don't think she was able to do that.

She had to do the swing around thing, and that made it very difficult, which they obviously did not foresee. But yes, Sarick, come on. I think what she was like was, look, this is the one thing in her mind. This is the one thing I know I can do. I want to show I'm not weak at challenges.

And instead, she did not. but also you're not in a situation where everybody has to do something either right like that's this wasn't that's what i was wondering where they all had to do the thing they did they all had to do something we usually have to do the first challenges they all had to do something it was just there could have been other things well right so like don't don't do the thing that's going to highlight it so yeah and i don't remember what the other aspects of this one were but like in the maroon ruining challenge.

Like everybody had to do something. That something could have simply been hauling ropes out of the boat. But how about just taking, how about taking the torch out of the, the stand and running over it, setting it on fire. So there were different things. But yes.

And I think what Christian, to circle back, I think what Christian was trying to get to was we can keep. I mean, he didn't say this because it was for the whole tribe, but we can keep Surrey, we just can't put her in those situations again. Right. But I think they're going to be in a tough spot

because I know there's been some pictures that came out quite some time ago and we did not see this challenge and there's definitely balance beams over the water and of course they're going to give her balance beams over the water. But this is what I'm saying.

Like, that's going to be problematic. Yeah. Now, you know, As for Jenna, she talked a lot in her interviews about how she thought she at least had Joe and Savannah on her side for this vote. But here's the thing. Three is not a majority of eight. And she did not have the socialist strategic capital to convince the others. And meanwhile, Christian was pointing out to most of the rest of the group.

They needed to agree and vote unanimously or else whoever received votes and made it through would come back to camp pissed, which would not be good at all for tribal unity. So they had their debate, which we, of course, did not see most of. They made their decision, which of course we did not see. And I suspect what happened was during that debate, Savannah and Joe, we're like, we're in the minority. We're not getting out of it. So let's just join the consensus like Christian said. That's how you end up with this unanimous vote. That's how you end up with Savannah and Joe telling Jenna two minutes before tribal council, we haven't decided yet.

Yeah, yeah, we're not. Yes, and that is also how you don't get people looking at you because if Savannah and Joe had tried to push back and do something different, well, all of a sudden they're going to start looking at Savannah and Joe going, well, so what? You know, then we'll just, we're going to target you next time. So, yes, the much smarter move is just go along with the tide. Like, this is the direction of anything is heading. Okay, fine. I don't need to try. I don't need to pull an Aussie.

Ozzie was trying to save Cerey. but there was a reason for it. Jenna didn't have anybody in her corner like that. James actually said that to me because to this day, I'm still like really sour at James. I'm like, I don't understand why if we had like such a great relationship, why you didn't take one for the team?

Like, why didn't you fight for me? And he's like, Lindsay, you weren't at the time you weren't worth fighting over. He's like, I wasn't going to put my neck out on the line for you. He's like, I didn't know where the tribal lines were drawn. and he goes for the very first tribal council, he's like, if I push back on anything, he's like, they could have turned it on me. He's like, I wasn't going to do that.

And it took him saying that for me to like really understand like, he didn't owe me anything in the first nine days. He still doesn't owe me anything now. But it's hard to understand sometimes like why someone doesn't fight harder for you. But you have to stop looking at it from like your lens and be like, this person is just trying to stay in the game three more days. Right. Yeah.

And a lot can happen in those three days. So I think James, like even if he was like, Lindsay would be a really great number for me, I can do enough work in the next couple days to like make up for that loss, whatever it is in the game. Yeah. All right.

For Kyle, instead of just having almost nothing, we have literally nothing to say because other tribe members didn't make the decision here. So there's literally nothing we could talk about. that's it. So, all right, it is about time to wrap up. Two hours and ten minutes in. Lindsay, what are your final thoughts on Jenna and Kyle?

Jenna and Kyle. Sad to see both of them go, but I think watching the two of them go out in this game just gets me excited to see, like, what's going to happen for the rest of the season. they were the last two I expected to see go home this week but they were also two people that were not in my survivor fantasy pool so I'm excited about that I kept my tribe intact

I know Christian's my winner pick so we'll see how that goes yeah Chris Christy is mine and I'm very excited I'm very excited about this so let's talk a little bit about Jenna and I won't so much about Kyle because I feel like that's the same right we haven't said much about coffee But I will say this. So one of the interesting components about Jenna and her pregame press, she said that her Survivor 50 strategy is same as All-Stars. Get people to like me quickly and start planting seeds of my plans so they think it's theirs.

Find a ride or die that you can convince, can beat you in the final three, be malleable and adaptable. Flatter everyone. Tell strong people how smart they are, beautiful people have. how smart, strong, et cetera, keeps secrets. So she had this whole concept in this whole plan. But instead of planting seeds, she went into an area where there was already trees and just ripped out the trees

and decided that she was going to put in her own trees without actually planting them properly and watering them and getting them started in the way that they need to start. And I hate to say that, but Jenna, like you were not playing Survivor All-Stars. That was a whole different group of people. You had different relationships with those people. You had relationships with those people. This is something that we discussed. There was eight seasons at that point.

You had been to survivor parties and things and hung out with each other and done game shows and all of this incredible stuff. So you knew who you were playing with. So coming into All-Stars with that idea, that concept, it worked because something we talked about, Tina, people were already gunning for Tina when you came into Survivor All-Stars. So again, different audience. That is unfortunately what Jenna failed to really recognize is that this is a different

audience. And for someone who brought a CD player and was like crocheting in Ponderosa, so you would think that she didn't know what she was doing because she was super old and had no concept of how to play this game, that is not what you presented, what you got on the island. It was not the crocheting, CD-playing individual that they saw. And I think that scared people. I think it caught people off guard.

I really do think that this idea that no one was behind you and you didn't have a base to work with isn't true. I think people wanted to play with Jenna. I think people were excited to play with Jenna because you are Jenna from Borneo. You are Jenna from All-Stars. You have this air about you. You have this legendary status that I do think that you feel. I do think that there's a reason why you were chosen. You weren't the token Borneo players.

as you expressed you might be. And so, unfortunately, for Jenna, she didn't utilize that to her benefit. She came in with an idea of how to play this game when it's no longer old school survivor and she's not playing with people that she knows. She needed to foster those relationships, actually plant the seeds, water them,

watch them get sunlight, fix the soil a little bit, before you start saying who you have to vote out and name dropping. And unfortunately, I think that's really, why you scared people off and they didn't want to work with you because you came and playing a game that they weren't expecting you to play. Kyle, you ripped your Achilles.

And that's really awful and I shouldn't laugh, but it's so terrible. And I'm so sorry they had to go through that. But I do think that you weren't a great place. And I do think that it would have been incredible to watch you play. But there was a moment that we saw, Camilla, looking down at you when this was happening. And all I could think of in that moment was Camilla was probably like, I hope you get some of that. I just wanted to speak as she was probably like,

this is my moment. This is my moment to not have to worry about Kyle right now because there was this thing in her face. But regardless, Kyle, you're great. Jenna, I think you're great too. I would have loved to have had an opportunity to spend, you know, time on Ireland with Jenna. And unfortunately, I was only in the montage.

But I'll take it. It's fine. I'll take it. Hey, that's impressive. I'm okay with it. I'll take it. Can I just touch on something before I forget? Okay, you talked about the Walkman and the crocheting

and the way that that comes across at Ponderosa. Just a reminder to anybody that is studying to play the game, nobody is going to buy that. And the reason is because if you are on season 51 or 52 of Survivor, nobody thinks you're some innocent mom who doesn't know what she's doing. Everyone thinks that you're coming across as shady because you're presenting yourself one way and we all know damn well how good you have to be to be able to get cast and how big of a man you have to be. Like nobody's buying it.

And look, I'm authentically nice and honest and that was kind of like the approach I wanted to have in the game. People don't think you're, I don't know. I just think like people are constantly questioning like every little thing you do. Assume that from the beginning. Don't think that people are dumb. Don't think that people aren't self-aware. Don't think that people aren't tracking like every little thing you do. They're paying attention to the books you read.

Yes. But they also know that you're trying to send a message to us about the book you read too. Yeah. So just keep that in mind when. Oh yeah. That was definitely something we talked about. I made a separate video with a clip about the ridiculousness of her bringing a CD player and crocheting and stuff like that.

And I mean, even, you know, it surprised me before I get to my conclusion here, just another tangent, how quickly Emily and Devons hit it off because Emily was ripping Devin's in pregame press because he was out there, you know, looking at his family photos the first day that they got there. And she was like, that is so performative. It is performative.

So, but I also think with Emily, I think she lies on purpose, including to press. I think she does it to mislead. And I think that if she went in there, knowing that she wanted to link up with Devin's, she wasn't going to say that to Mike Bloom and to Dalton Ross. That's an interesting concept. I love this theory.

I think that that is the type of person that she is. And it's, I'm not saying anything mean. I'm just saying I think that she didn't want to take the risk that she could be seen as, you know, someone who pregame, so she comes in there and says negative things. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I like that, Jerry.

That's a good theory. I have another dog. Or she's just calling it as it is and she has no problem saying it straight to Devin's face. Yeah, that's true too. That's true too. It doesn't mean she's not going to align with it. Right. Like she's going to be like, hey, that's performative, but also like let's hugged out and

yeah. So it could be either. Yeah. All right, Jenna created a self-fulfilling prophecy, which I had written down here before I heard Rob say the same thing. Great minds think alike. She believed she was immediately on the bottom, and then she played it away, put her on the bottom.

And then she blamed being on the bottom for her loss. And then in interviews, she blamed other people as well while trying to distance herself from the very things that she did and said. But this is why we do this podcast for situations, like the one we're looking at here, where maybe it's not clear or maybe it is clear, but then the waters get muddy. When I was originally watching the episode when it ended, I did not have the intent of coming to this podcast and talking about Jenna like this. I thought this was going to be a short podcast. I was going to mention her clear violation of the second rule and expand on related items.

and then ensure that we had covered everything that led to it. Instead, we had to spend a bunch of time. Why is this podcast so long? Because we had to spend so much time counter-arguing the smoke screen that she put up, whether intentionally or not, just to get to those same reasons. Jenna came into this game playing too hard, too fast, too impersonally. It's like she got a Cliff's note version of what New Air,

gameplay is and she missed key details or for those people who are too young to know what cliff's notes are chat gpc plus this is only half a new era game yes the 26 days is but the players are not and with it being returnees that alters the way you have to handle people as well but jenna came in both barrels fully loaded and aimed at seri before even hitting the beach and rather than try to figure out where everyone stood, she attempted to push them towards her preconceived conclusion. Even while later claiming she felt like she was on the bottom, which means this was the opposite of how she should have reacted. Jenna opened the season by talking to Jeff on the beach, saying she was there in part to find out what she could learn about herself. I was going to say,

I think she found out because I said in the preview podcast that she couldn't just control people the way she seemed to believe she could. The problem is, after reading and listening to her interviews, I don't think she actually found out. Because she has a very different view of what happened compared to what we saw and what other players said both in the game and at least one is saying now after it. And we know at least part of it was completely made up in her head. But whether she learned anything or not about the reason she was voted out isn't really pertinent to those reasons.

unless, of course, she's called upon to return again someday. Meanwhile, we had Kyle who told us, I think I'm in the best spot in this game. And I believe he was right, at least at that time. We'll never know if he could have maintained it, though he certainly seemed to be in a prime position to do so for at least a while. He had so many allies that he could have handled a swap,

a merge, a double cross, you name it. He was ready for almost anything except an injury. in both of these cases, these players lost control of their environments. Kyle even tried to get Jeff Probst to sign off on allowing him to stay. While Jenna tried to get everyone to do what she wanted, neither were successful. And that is why Jenna and Kyle lost. There we are. Two hours and 25 minutes.

Yes. Which was longer? Those are the State of the Union? Did we break a record? I don't think we broke a record because we've done Y blank ones. But this is for an episode one, yeah, I can almost guarantee. Is it always me that makes the episode go long? I mean, you do.

You do. But I mean, it was mostly me here. You know, I mean. Right. No, no. I just don't talk to you all so much. It's because you have things to add, you know? Yes.

I always have things to add. Yeah. And so, but in this case, there's only one person I blame and that's Jenna. Because like I said, in my conclusion there, if she had just gone into her interviews and said, yeah, this is what happened and not blown all this smoke all over the place, this would have ended over an hour ago. I guarantee you. Fascinating is when Christian Hubicki is out and he's like, all that shit she said, that was right.

Yeah, well. But can we also, can we talk about how cute it was when Christian did that little dance? And then can we also talk real quick about how Devin's was mocking Ozzy about being the provider? Oh, yes, yes. I do think that Devin's has found his comedic role in this particular season. It's been very entertaining to see his interactions with people and the confessionals and just how he's responding. And producers and other players are playing into it because, you know, there was one person who was like, we have Ozzy. and we have Christian and we have Devons and then they show they show him just like tripping and falling or something like that is but it's such a strange contrast from like this dominant player that I'm used to seeing and so that's why sometimes with these returning seasons like I get nervous

Ozzie looks like shambo right now like I can't unspe it's driving me bonkers especially when he was on exile island and I'm like can can somebody please and and you can can tag me in it. I want them to do that thing where they do the transition from like one person to the other. You know what I'm talking about? I really want to see like the shambo-a-a-a-a-zis transition. So if anybody can do that, that'd be great. Yeah. All right. All right. Well, we still have predictions to do. So we better. Oh, God. No, no predictions. Before we do that, I do want to mention next week, we will have another returning guest as Liz Wilcox joins us. Now, she's hoping to discuss Q. So we'll see how that goes for that tribe there. But we do want to remind everyone quickly here that the rules we just discussed are available

in poster form and poster on a t-shirt form and checklist form. So again, go to rob has website.com slash y-X lost feed and go ahead and get that. And then there's also, of course, ways to reach us all when we're not, here on the podcast. I don't, Lindsay, what's the best way to reach you? I, oh, wait, there we go. I actually put it in my

little handle right here. I think that's what we're going. Lower third, something like that. Yeah, I'm on Instagram. That's it. I mean, so she's at Lindsay F. Carmine. Yes. Okay.

And I am at Jessica Lewis 89 on Blue Sky and Twitter, and I'm at Jessica Lewis, 6789 on Instagram. I'm, you know, ramping up the posts a little bit because now you'll see some 50 happening. So this is going on. However, I must say that I am nothing compared to the gentleman who sits to what appears to be my right.

That he is just a social media guru and has so many outlets for content that he has a page dedicated to all of the locations you can find him on his link tree. So, Dave Blur, wanting to talk to them about all of the places that they can find you. Yes, you can find that at Linktree slash David Bloomberg or directly on Blue Sky, where I'm at David Bloomberg. On the video sites, YouTube, TikTok and Instagram, I'm at David Bloomberg TV. I've been posting mostly two or three reality TV short videos every day, although before today, I posted like five and six the past couple days, just with traders ending and Survivor starting and Australians. It was crazy. Do you sleep? Are you sleeping right now?

David, do I need to worry about you? Yes. It seems like the retired guys working harder than the two people did women on this podcast. I'm just saying. You know my wife that please. She's like, do you all that. Like I posted six videos.

You're like, I'm on TikTok. Yeah. Somebody's got to pay for those shoes, right? Yeah. And not enough people are looking at my videos on TikTok. So to pay for me. I'll get my kids' teenage friends to give you some views and clicks. So, you know, most of the videos till this point have been on the traders,

but obviously I'm transitioning to Survivor 50 and some on Australian Survivor. I was even doing mini Why Blank lost videos for the traders, which means I will have like six of those coming in the coming days because of the finale. And speaking of the traders, I am co-hosting the Tradar podcast. for the Traders U.S. And yes, this has been a busy day and is going to continue to be because the finale was yesterday. We recorded the finale podcast this morning.

We're recording the reunion podcast Saturday, which I have not even watched the reunion yet. We're doing a special postseason listener Q&A podcast on Tuesday. And so, yeah, just find the trade, our T-R-A-I-D-A-R. And you can find that either wherever you get podcasts or. on YouTube. And I will say, you know, one thing that has not happened to me, it's happened to you, Jessica, on this podcast, not for a while. But on the Trader podcast, on the traders, there was a big thing made about smoked salmon because that's the best item and the castle to have for breakfast.

And so we were joking about that. And a smoked fish company reached out to us and sent me smoked salmon to eat during. Which one is it? Act me smoked fish. They're in New York. It was very good. So, yes. So, you know, if any,

wait, if you're listening to this podcast, I love me some salmon. And this guy's like, I don't know. He's like my podcast partner. Like, it's pretty great. Maybe just you, yeah,

you got boxes of stuff before. I see. that's exciting. Let's talk about this kettle. I haven't heard from me in a long time and I'm still loving your chips. If kettle's still listening two and a half hours into a podcast, they are dedicated. You know. But we know there are some people dedicated, so we better get to the predictions.

Now, we really did not get much information about what's going to happen next week. We saw a coach getting mad at Ozzy before a challenge, but that's obviously not going to impact anything because they're on different tribes. And we see that coach seems to have a problem while fishing, but I'm guessing that's a red herring, no pun intended, fishing. And there's also the clip of Christian Hubicki saying something about how things could go sideways for them. But remember, there's a reason that Hubicki's law is named after Christian Hubicki. It is because we know if he is in there and it looks like things could go sideways,

things are not going to go sideways. So Hubikki's law back in play. So here's what I'm going to say. I was of two minds on this one. I think that the Sela tribe is not going to put themselves in a position where they lose the challenge again. It would be easy to predict they turn into the disaster tribe, especially given what you talked about with that secret scene. But I feel like if I feel like that would have been in the main program. if it was going to come back to hunt them.

So I just think there are too many good competitors there and they're smart enough to readjust things so that doesn't happen again. I sure don't think it'll be Kayla. So I'm going back to our preseason thoughts of Vatu losing, especially since they lost Kyle, who was one of if not the strongest challenge competitor there. So then the question is,

what happens. There was a five-person core alliance that could run the game along with Kyle's other alliances. But Colby well that five is down to four and only two of them have votes.

That's not going to fly. We know Aubrey and Genevieve are worried about each other. We know Rizzo and Colby seem to be getting close. All of these alliances have to reshuffle because Kyle was the heart of them.

And so what's that going to mean for like Angelina's position when she considered him her number one? I'm worried about my winner pick. I mean, you know, because Aubrey, that is not a good spot to be in, especially when she started out the way she did with Genevieve.

I was like, Aubrey, what are you doing? I thought it was super weird. Yes. And the thing is like, Genevieve's going to pick up, pick up on those vibes.

And she's kind of unassuming, but like, yeah. I can't bring myself She's going to be out this early. I know. So I'm going to say they're going to get Rizzo on board and I'm going to predict they knock out the person

I had originally predicted as the first out of this tribe and that is Angelina. Hey, just so you know, if you can hear me, I can't hear you at all. You can't hear me at all now? Okay, I guess you can't. Okay, well, she just had a dog emergency with the hearing there. So hopefully she will fix that while Lindsay, you give us our, your predictions. All right, all right, all right.

I'm looking at tribe photos right now. All right. Who doesn't have a vote? Q and Colby. Is that right? All right. So if Q and Colby don't have a vote, I think Aubrey goes. if we're having to pick from that tribe.

If not, I think. Well, it's anyone, whoever you think. If anyone who doesn't think. I don't want her to go home, but I'm worried Chrissy might go home. Wow. Can you hear me? Yes.

It might sound, I think my thing. No, you're fine. So did you just hear who Lindsay picked as her prediction? Are you picking Chrissy? Yes. I don't want her to go. I did not pick Aubrey,

but I picked Angelina. Yeah. So here's... I just think from the outlier perspective, I just, I feel like with her personality and her age, I'm just not sure where she's fitting in and vibing with everybody else. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like that prediction at all. I don't want it. I don't want it. So here's my theory. All right. And I'm going to try this and see if this works now. Just go ahead. We're at the end of the podcast.

Just go ahead. Okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Yeah? Yes. No? Yes.

Okay. All right. Here's what I think. I think that we are going to see sealed going back to tribal council because I just feel like there's something about this whole boomerang situation with the boomerang idol that happened. We heard a lot about it. We know why it was why they picked Ozzy. And we saw so much of Ozzy.

I think he had 19. like professionals or something crazy. I was like 29 or something. It was like stupid. Hold on. I'm going to see if I can look it again. It was crazy how many he had. So I do think that there's a reason why we saw so much of that because Ozzy is now

playing a different game. He's playing as Oscar. He's not playing as Ozzy. And I think this is like his breakout moment to be like, I'm going to be Oscar and I'm not going to be Ozzy. And that secret scene that I talked to you about where they're talking about whether or not they like made the wrong choice. and like should they have voted out somebody else.

The other person who was sitting there was Savannah. Savannah was sitting there listening to them talk about how they might have made the wrong choice and voted out the wrong person. And Savannah's not saying anything, but she's listening, which leads me to believe that Savannah's probably going to go run back and be like, hey, Sari and Ozzie, you might want to know that they were all talking about this. Maybe she's going to try to like get in with Ozzy and with. with Ceri to see if she can like kind of ruffle some feathers, right?

And so what's going to end up happening is, man, it's just going to be crazy because she's going to go back to them and start telling them things. Someone's going to find out that Savannah is spilling the beans. They're probably going to split the vote and it's going to be one of those situations where let's put some votes on, on Ozzy to throw everything off because he's going to think that we're going to vote for Ceree. but really let's also vote for Savannah because she is throwing us under the bus and telling them what we want to do

and then Ozzy is going to play as idol and Savannah's going to go home. Okay. That's my thing. I mean, I have nothing against Savannah, but that's certainly the most interesting of our three predictions, I have to say. I'm just trying to put everything together

that I was like 19 confessionals. Like that's crazy. 19 is crazy. But, okay, let's say, all right, let's say this tribe does go back to tribal. I would think the five of them would gang up on Surrey and Ozzy, maybe split the vote and then Ozzy is torn.

Where is he going to play his idol for Surrey or for himself? Yeah. I don't know. No, he can't play it for anyone else. That was one of the rules. He has to play it for himself. Yeah. So there.

But he has another advantage that he said, I don't want to have to play it for Surrey. What's the other? advantage he has. Oh, that's the extra vote. Yeah. Extra vote. Okay. So, I don't see how this would help here, but they would be dumb to not try to get one of the two of them

out at this point. Mm-hmm. All right, well. That's my prediction. Okay. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people to check out the R. JP patron program at rob has a website.com slash patron. You can get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons, plus

Facebook groups and Discord. And of course, you support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at rob has a website.com slash patron. And make sure you're subscribed to all the RHAP Survivor Podcasts at we know survivor.com. And you'll see all of the Survivor podcasts that we have here from us to the Know It All to the B&B, Survivor International. You name it. It's on there. Yes. And we would like to thank everyone at the RJP, like site, not. just for this podcast and all the work that you do, but all of the work that you do for all of the incredible content that you do put out. So why blank loss and everything else? Thank you to Scott

St. Pierre for all of the editing that you do, not only for again, this podcast, but all of the content that David Bloomberg just spoke up. And also, too, Will from America. Thank you for the theme song that plays before the audio version of this podcast. And also, thank you, Lindsay, for hanging in with us for two hours and 42 minutes. I feel like, don't remind people. Don't remind people. maybe they'll forget. Maybe they'll forget. Thank you, viewers and listeners for hanging in.

Of course. It was a lot to talk about. It was a lot. It was a three-hour premiere. So why can't it be a three-hour, why blank loss premiere, right? I mean, come on. It's fine.

We actually averaged less than, I don't want to do the math. I was going to say, like, normally our podcast is longer than the episode. So we're shorter than the episode here. Yes. we're yeah we're we're coming out ahead anyone who's made it this long you just you know that we're

we're ahead here so yes we're doing great we're doing great thank you also you know what as far as I'm concerned there's no such thing as too much rob has a podcast survivor content so right right great all right well thanks for having on thanks everybody for listening can't wait to do it again yes and thank you of course jessica we will see everyone in a week and of course you could find us on social media till then. And next week, as I mentioned, we'll have Liz on. So see you then. Bye.

Bye.