RHAP: We Know Survivor - Zach Zucker Talks Survivor 50

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Zach Zucker Talks Survivor 50 Today, Rob Cesternino teams up with comedian and Survivor superfan Zach Zucker to recap all the action from the latest episode. With the season hitting its halfway point, Rob and Zach dig into the ever-changing alliances, bold idol plays, and the unique power of alter egos shaping the strategies of returning veterans and rising stars. This episode features sharp analysis and plenty of laughs as the duo unpacks the drama and chaos of Survivor’s landmark 50th season. Rob and Zach spotlight how returning players bring standout personas into the game—for example, Cirie slipping back into her “gangster in an Oprah suit” mode, Ozzy reinventing himself as “Oscar,” and Coach claiming his “Coach 4.0” identity. A highlight is Rizo’s evolution into “Rizgod,” using big confessionals and social savvy to build trust with Survivor legends. They discuss tribe splits, unpredictable vote outcomes, and how larger groups open up possibilities for wild blindsides, drawing comparisons to the dynamic gameplay of Australian Survivor. The conversation also explores Genevieve’s impressive transition from a wounded first-timer to a confident competitor, alongside the psychology of how eager, driven players can intimidate their tribemates at camp. – The return of iconic personas: Cirie, Ozzy (“Oscar”), Coach (“Coach 4.0”) – Rizo’s rise as “Rizgod” and his impact on this season’s alliances – The role of hunger and ambition in making players targets at Tribal Council – Genevieve’s strategic comeback and how second chances shift gameplay – Tribe size debates: how big groups create more chaos and unpredictable voting Rob and Zach ponder whether bold alter egos like Rizo’s will last, and if Survivor 50 is truly passing the torch to a new generation of legends. Will strong personalities and ambitious moves pay off, or will under-the-radar players take control as the merge unfolds? Catch the full recap and join RHAP for in-depth Survivor 50 coverage, including idol reads, vote splits, and the constantly shifting alliances that make this season a must-watch. Chapters: 0:00 Zach Zucker Joins Survivor Podcast 6:00 Clown School Lessons Shape Comedy 12:28 Power of Survivor Alter Egos 18:16 Cirie and Ozzy Revert Roles 24:47 Casting Choices and Missed Moments 28:33 Celebrating Iconic Survivor Characters 36:19 Playing Big Versus Playing Safe 42:31 Rob Reflects on Traitors Gameplay 48:07 Intentional Rapaport Strategy Explained 51:52 Rick Devens Embraces Idol Persona 54:45 Genevieve’s Evolution in Survivor 50 58:56 Impressions Capture Survivor Essence 1:02:07 Survivor Secret Friends Season Pitch 1:09:30 Survivor’s Future Without Jeff Probst 1:14:02 Survivor 50 Passes the Torch 1:19:02 New Ways to Include Legends 1:21:38 Zach Zucker Previews Netflix Special To pre-order Rob’s book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, visit www.robhasabook.com Never miss a minute of RHAP’s extensive Survivor coverage! LISTEN: Subscribe to the Survivor podcast feed WATCH:  Watch and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube SUPPORT:  Become a RHAP Patron for bonus content, access to Facebook and Discord groups plus more great perks!

Hey everybody. What's going on? Rob Sistrino back here. And we've got a fun one here today. We're talking with somebody who is a, I don't want to oversell, because I feel like then people are expecting maybe, I don't want to bar too high, but a very funny comedian who has become a good friend of the podcast. He was with us in L.A. for the live show, but you can catch him doing comedy all over the place, including he's going to be performing at the Netflix is a joke upcoming event in May. And of course, you can see soon much more of him all over the place. It's Zach Zucker. Zach, how are you? Oh, my God.

Hello, Rob. This is a dream. I can't tell you how excited I am to be here and to be able to be in a space where I can really let loose and talk about something I love so much. Finally, you can let loose. You also let loose also as Jack Tucker. and we can explain all of your personas along the way to the RHAP audience. So I guess so can you tell us a little bit more about you and your comedy for anybody who is uninitiated so far in the RHAP audience as they get to know you today?

So for sure, and I'd be willing to say of the millions, maybe even billions of listeners to this podcast network, I would say maybe four to five, not billion, but singular people might be aware of me. So hello to all of you. if I know anything from being at this wonderful Survivor 50 LA event that I was at a few weeks ago, I can tell that this audience, they're a very racial crowd, they're very, they love to go crazy and wild. So I promise to bring that today. And you're in good hands.

I'll touch all of them. I'll touch everything. Yes. Okay. All right. So everybody is, you know, pumped up for the idea of season 50. Maybe that some of the things that so far in season 50 haven't landed. as much as well as we've wanted them to do.

How are you feeling about Survivor 50? You know, I think not to parrot like everything that everybody else has said, but obviously I am thrilled to see returning players. I, as somebody who, you know, for so many reasons loves this show, to be able to just dive back in with people that you know so well, to see some like top tier gameplay and some constant flipping where you're not sure which way the vote's going to go or who's working with who. and I know there's a lot of elements that go into this,

but just to be able to not have to go, wait, do I have to care about this person? Are you going to be around for a while? Are you getting an edit today because you're going home, but to just sit in with these people, I am loving that. I'm absolutely loving that. Zach, what's your background with Survivor?

Have you been an OG survivor fan? Did you pick it up recently? God, I thought about lying and making up an elaborate OG story where I was like, you know, yeah, ever since I was six, I picked up the torch and I went to the remote, and I pressed play, you know. But I came later in life to Survivor.

I had always been aware of it. But I was really sports and comedy growing up, and then I kind of high school musicaled into theater and clown and performance. And then my really good friend, my best friend, Good Maddie, shouts to Good Maddie, she is a huge survivor head. And a few years ago, it was Christmas.

I was with her in Paris. And she put on a season, and I was like, okay, I didn't expect this to be, this is like a lot more fun and engaging and interactive than I would have thought just from like the base kind of periphery knowledge of it. And I got sucked in. I think my first season was 42.

And I remember watching, you know, Marianne and Jonathan and seeing the arc of Marianne was like, oh, my God, where they kind of put her out and you're like, uh-oh, this person might be too much. And then you're like, hold on a minute, she's actually really smart. And then she pulls off some incredible moves. And then she obviously has that secret idol at the end

that she doesn't tell anybody about. and you're like, oh, this girl's going to win the whole damn thing. And to see kind of a mini David Goliath moment in between that with her. Jonathan was, I just felt such fun storytelling and such fun character work. And then I just went backwards from there. And I think I saw Pearl Islands pretty early on. I saw Amazon pretty early on. I saw Heroes and Villains pretty early on.

And just seeing, you know, these eclectic characters and individuals play was like, it was mind-blowing to me, especially at a time where I feel like TV and entertainment overall is kind of at a low. you know, legacy media is kind of at its worse and I feel like the garbage you see online is at an all-time output. And so to see something that finally, I felt like resonated with me was a wonderful surprise.

And I've almost exclusively watched Survivor probably every day ever since. You watch it every day. Almost. It's like if I need something in, like when I want to focus, I will focus. If I need something in the background, I love to have it in the background.

I feel like this, I want to get into this part later of like how I feel like I've used what I've learned for me. in my life. But like, yeah, it's just, it's comforting. It's enjoyable. I love to tune in and tune out. It's not just background food. I would not dare to disgrace the show in this way, but it does make me feel comfortable to have it in there while I'm living my life. Okay. So I want to get into your background a little bit more. And of course, we'll talk about all of your survivor thoughts

here today. But your stand-up comedy is very interesting. And it is much, different if it's very meta than almost anything else that I've ever seen before. You mentioned going to France. I know that you also have this training that you trained in France to be a clown. That's true. I very much like every Jewish kid from the suburbs, grandparents' worst nightmare, I ran away to France and went to a clown school and then have effectively been in the circus for the last like 12 years. And yeah, so I studied at a clown school called Ecole Philippe Goliere with his French clown master

named Philippe Golié and his wife, Michiko Miyazaki. And the whole practice, the whole art form is like how to enjoy to be bad and how to be your best idiot and to teach the audience to laugh of you, to laugh of everything that you have. And it's based on the idea that like if you are having, if you have pleasure in your performance

and pleasure in your life and you approach everything from this lightness and you can, yeah, truly wear this failure like your body of armor. Well, everyone's good at being good. And so if you could be good at being bad, it's never bad. And you're always at least watchable.

And if you're at least watchable, it's entertaining. And then from there, you can learn how to be funny. But that comes later. But it teaches you how to just, you know, I think be able to release tension and kind of always meet the room where they're at. And, you know, I can't imagine my life any other way. And, you know, I really hits me sometimes.

We're like, you know, I had this premiere last night that Brandon was at, and I had 250 rubber chickens there. And I've made that order multiple times in my life. And that is, that's so many of most people I don't think have to go through, but I've done that a lot. So you've ordered 250 rubber chickens multiple times. Yeah. But is it too hard to transport them from city to city, or do you go through them?

Oh, yeah. So that's the thing is, I've got a stable in New York, a stable in L.A. and a stable in London, and they live there, and they're loud, and if you open that suitcase or you open the door at the wrong time when you're, you know, maybe in a disagreement creatively or personally, and you hear that, like this, you know, it's either the funniest thing in the world or it only infuriates whoever you're talking to a little bit more. Yes. What's the going rate for a rubber chicken and when you buy them in bulk? So right now on Amazon, I think they're like, I think it's like 35 bucks for 45 rubber chickens.

And so it's a pretty good, pretty good deal, you know. Pretty good deal. You're on 90 cents a chicken. Right. And that's like merch also. So, yeah, that's a good. It is. I handed them out to everybody yesterday and I've started to see stories on the internet today.

People using them as dog toys, using them as decorations. And like, you know, for me, if I can get, you know, two years of jokes out of 90 cents, I mean, that's a pretty good return on the investment right there. Pretty good ROI. Yeah, the shelf. Yeah, the huge ROI and shelf life for the chicken. Do you know that Stephen Fishback also went through? I mean, certainly not to the degree that you did,

but also went through clown training. Are you serious? Do you know where? I don't know where. I have to ask him, but I know that that was something that he did at one point in time. That rules.

That rules. I think the only other person I knew before I started to do this was like Steve-O from Jackass went to a more traditional circus. All the Steve's. Yeah, the Steve's did it. It's kind of a Steve thing.

Yeah. But I had no idea. If I had the pleasure of seeing him ever again or meeting him, I would love to ask him about this because it's a small community. And we, we spread around the world. You kind of know where everybody is, or at least you're usually two, you're two rubber noses away from the next clown. You know, the connections are, are small. But I would love to see him clowning. We get fishback on any of our shows. He's always welcome to. So I think you were getting to this in talking about your training to be a clown

in learning to be bad and embracing that. And then the funny comes later. So can you, describe to the audience what your stand-up comedy is like for anybody who hasn't seen it before? So I primarily perform as a character, which is my alter ego called Jack Tucker, which sounds like a much more believable name than Zach Zucker. And I tell people sometimes that Zach is actually my stage name. My real name is Tony Belloni, but I'm actually Spanish. My name's Antonio Baroneo. And I have a whole separate routine there. But the whole gag is like, the whole point of how I work is, what could be the stupidest thing I could possibly do?

How many times can I step in a bucket of shit and enjoy it over and over and over where I keep planning like I'm doing this, but I keep pretending I don't mean to, but it's obvious I've done this where you and the crowd are going, I really can't believe he did that again. And you're like, surely he's done.

Then you do another one, you're like, oh my God, he's still going. You're starting to laugh. Some people are cracking up and you're kind of like, all right, I don't know if I really like this. But then as it keeps going, you're like, all right, I guess you can't say he's not committed to it. And it's just, we talk about this idea from coming from underneath.

If you can win something and be cool and like spike down a joke in the crowd and be like a cool guy, it's like, well, no one wants to see somebody win. That's not so fun to just see somebody who's like kind of being a braggadocious or bravado. It's more fun to see the idiot, which again is a non-derogatory term for clown. Idiot, stupid, bizarre, dumb. Like those are, those are the nicest things you could say. And so if you, if you can come from underneath, and I guess in this clown theory, if you can win a joke, then you can come from underneath and lose a joke

and keep that game up in the air by being stupider than what is in front of you. So if you can keep that confusion going, some of the clown masters of our generations have been like the Sasha Baron Cohen's, you know, the Kristen Wigs, the Will Ferrell's, Mr. Bean, all these like really fun physical, they've got that like special light in their eye

where it's like, how long can you stretch out this stupid thing that's happening? That is, my goal is I will go forever and ideally the clown like, will never stop. If the crowd is there and they're laughing, they'll keep going. And if they're not laughing, they'll do everything they can to get them laughing again. Something I'm really fascinated about, and I love to talk about this idea of the alter ego, because I think that it's so powerful. And I think that so many people that have been very successful, both certainly outside of

Survivor, but also in the game of Survivor, I think have been able to tap into this idea of the alter ego where it's sort of freeing where you are wearing a mask and playing this character. But I think in doing that, you have a lot more freedom. And hey, it's, you're able to separate yourself from like, hey, I'm able to fail potentially or that, it wasn't me. It was that person. It was that character that did those things. Or if there's any sort of failure, then that wasn't necessarily the real me.

Do you find that that allows you to be much more free in your comedy? This is what I wanted to get into on this. Because again, this arc form is so stupid, but I hold it with the utmost, like, love and, you know, philosophical importance. And, you know, like, to be the modern-day court jester with the jester's privilege is my dream. That's what I aspire to be. And through that, I think, is this alter ego thing that you're talking about,

which I would love to hear about how you feel when you play, whether it was playing traitors or playing Survivor, if you feel you tap into this or there's different versions, because I think that's totally it. If you can change your mentality, I struggle to perform and make decisions as myself. I think I'm funny. Like if we're just hanging out, I can be funny,

but if you were telling me Zach to go on stage, I struggle to maybe land on my full point of view. But if I can get something, which is ultimately still me, whether it's a physical change or a wardrobe or even just a voice or a piece of music, then I can trick myself into freeing myself, to play a bit more, and I'm still unlocking

all of the skills or knowledge that I have. But yeah, you're getting out of your own way mentally where, like you said, I'm not maybe necessarily thinking about not the consequences of my actions, but like I'm able to just kind of move forward in a way that feels true to whatever this persona is. And in these types of games and these types of performances, that's the most important thing you've got to do is get out of your own way and be able to just kind of follow this.

So, oh man, that's, I didn't even, like, do you feel you have stuff like that when you've done when you've played before you know so i have learned a lot more about this recently and i feel like that when i look back and i think about some of the times that i've had success especially in my survivor the amazon i do think that in some ways that there was an alter ego that i was at that particular point in time but i didn't have a name for it i think that some of the better examples asking you have like a label for it you know i really come to learn a lot more about this over the years but i think a great example that you could look back to is Parvety talked about in her book that she was retiring her persona of the Black Widow.

And you can tell that it's something that she, when she went to go play Survivor, the thing that she had success was this idea of becoming the Black Widow version of Parvety. And she really had a lot of power in that and a lot of magnetism in that. And it's something that she was hanging up after her win in Australian Survivor versus the world. But when we're looking at Survivor 50 in particular, I think that the idea of Rizzo versus Rizgod, I think, is an area where I think that we are seeing where when this, you know, mild-mannered kid becomes Riz God, he is able to tap into some things that maybe you would not expect from. the just, you know, young man who has come to Survivor. Well, I mean, I think you nailed it with him. I mean, obviously, you have the earlier versions like Boston Rob.

That is a persona. I mean, obviously, just to even call yourself, you have this coach. That's another persona. I feel like other people have done it more, like maybe subtly where, like, I think JT's games between his first, second, and third season, he at least tried something different every time. And you could tell it was always from the same nucleus, but you're watching this person play with different approaches.

You know, you have people who can play the same variation of their approach, obviously like Asandra. And, you know, it's like, it could always be, hey, anybody but me. But it's like, you know I'm always going to go in there and, like, stir the pot and stir shit around. But I'm going to do it from a different way every time, you know? And Rizzo, man, he's the perfect one for me right now where he was someone where, yeah, of course, of course I enjoyed watching him in 49.

Of course, it was hard for me to avoid the spoilers and know that him and Savannah weren't going to be on 50 anyways. and like I kind of knew that was going to happen. And as the list came out, you know, and there's a lot of people that I wish were on the series and I think there's 50 other amazing candidates who could have been on the season. And I'm like, damn, they gave it,

they gave two to these people from this season that we haven't seen yet. I feel like that boy is stepping up right now. And his entertainment value is high. And, you know, whether or not like I love, I've been loving all the memes or the things online of everyone being like, Rizzo being like, I'm the king, I've got an idol.

And I'm nailing it, and it's like, brother, they all, everybody kind of just gave this to you. It fell into your laugh. However, it's how you sell it. And it's how you spin it. And he's undenied to be playing a great game. And he's secured the trust of the Black Widow's best friend. And if you got Surrey on your side and you got Ozzy on your side,

if I'm going out to play Survivor for the second time, does it get better than that? Yeah. And you got Colby too. Like, I mean, you have to feel good if you got three of the greatest legends being like, I trust you. You know? I think that this idea with the alter ego, I think with this returning player season, also I think it's so fun because I think that everybody is kind of coming back knowing what their alter ego superpower is.

Oh, it's so fun. First time player seasons. And I'm sure for the show in some ways, it's like, oh, we like that this is the authentic person. But I think that these returning players come back with a little bit of this armor. And this armor is also allowing them to play bigger and knowing who they are where Surrey, if you saw her and spent time with her in real life, she's not necessarily the gangster in an Oprah suit that she becomes when she's Surrey on the show. And Ozzy is somebody also who I think comes back.

And he's somebody who has talked about that he's coming back as a different alter ego this time, that he's coming back as Oscar. And now I'm putting on this different alter ego. alter ego that's different, but you still see that the original alter ego is still in there somehow. It's a fascinating, I think maybe you guys have talked about this in a few episodes. Like, it's fascinating because everybody, or not everybody, but a lot of people had the intention or objective to play in a different way, to play different how they have in the past, whether it's coach saying I'm, coach 4.0, it's Ozzie saying I'm Oscar.

It's Joe kind of being like, you know, I got burned, I can't do this again. and it's funny. I think it's a lot of the guys outwardly saying that they're going to be playing differently, and I think a lot of the women are just doing it. But the boys are out there really kind of puff in their chest and being like, this is it. And then something happens.

And immediately it's like, well, yeah, you can kind of like change your approach, but you can't necessarily always change who you are in this way or what this brings out in you. And to see them all, you know, I mean, almost immediately in episodes one and two with Oscar and Benjamin Wade, you will, go immediately back to coach and Ozzy, and you're like, oh, yeah, I mean, this,

this is what we come here for and this is what I love about Survivor is that just, it just pulls this out. Like, you hear Jeff say it's a social experiment so much, and at a certain point, it becomes like, okay, I'm a bit numb to hearing this, but then you do zoom out and see these moments, and you're like, this is a social experiment. You're putting these people here with these preexisting relationships in this history, whether it's their own personal history, their interpersonal history, and you're watching it play out in real time, and I'm sure there's some element that comes up for the camera, but it doesn't feel like it.

These people mean this and they care about this. And it's, ah, it's so fun to watch. I can't. I love it so much, Rob. I can feel your passion for it. You're so excited talking about this. I am. I am. I've done a lot of, like, you know, comedy podcasts in my life.

And I'll tell you, I've never been nervous or really excited for any of them. And this is the one where I was like, when Brandon asked me, I was like, are you kidding me? Oh, my God. Like, what do I wear? What do I do? I got to watch the, I watched last week's episode. Yeah. Yeah. A Bo Jackson T-shirt, to be fair. I was named. My middle name is Bo. So I was named after him.

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People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Tell me, at this point, we're like in the middle of the season right now. I think it literally is like going into the halfway point. Who do you feel like has the edge right now going into the back half of Survivor 50? You know, I was hoping to maybe say a different name,

but I do feel like Rizzo has an edge right now. I mean, I'm kind of sniffing a top tier performance from him. And, you know, it's tough. I'm trying not to read into having seen, you know, every season and seen a few of them multiple times and having, you know, been on the subreddits and being in the community and listening to you guys, you can start to pick up like, okay, I'm starting to see somebody's getting a specific type of edit, but I think they've done a really good job this year.

Again, there's the whole other editing parts that are 100% true of like, it feels like there is a definite disparity between the people getting time and not. And then there is also the other truth to it where I feel like, I mean, you know, the same essentially, you know, Christian Emily and Ozzie's tribes have gone to tribal every single time. And so I understand when that is the focus point or the focal point of the last back third of the episode, you got to spend a lot of time with the people going to tribal council. But so I'm like, you know, there's people like TIF or I've not seen as much of, but I'm like, are you hiding something? Like does she, you know, do you feel that way when you watch? Is it hard?

Is it, are you able to separate yourself from the insider info that you know of these? It's really hard and I try so hard to have like cognitive dissonance so much, with the edit reading. And I really do try to convince myself some things that I think are at least partially possible where I know that there is a disparity with some of the people who have been so very much in our faces and over-edited and people who have had lighter edits. But I also, you know, do tell myself that there are characters specifically in the new era where they've had lighter edits in the premurge and their story really

starts to bubble up in the second half of the season. Now, I don't know how many of those people have gone on to win the game, but there certainly have been, you know, when you think of Genevieve in her first season, she sort of like had a very slow start. And Lindsay in Survivor 42, your first season was hardly seen in the pre-merge and became a pretty big character in the post-merge. You have people who had kind of wacky edits who go on to win, like Erica and Gabler. So I just try to like keep the possibilities open on a lot of these things.

I also think that it's a 24 person season and I don't think that the editors necessarily know what to do in a 24 player season. And it's also they're trying to satisfy a lot of different interests of like, okay, well, we have coach back for the first time in 15 years. We got to show we got to give people coach. We got to keep Colby. And so you don't know necessarily how much are they trying to front load. we have this particular legend now, so let's make sure that we're showing them while we have them. So I do think that we don't necessarily know all of the factors

that go into editing a Survivor 50. Look, I would love to think, again, taking into the years, like, taking into the show's history, I feel like Survivor, like, you know, it's what's beautiful about it also is, like, there is an imperfection in the way that a lot of things have been handled over the years throughout it, but that is the reflection in the mirror of society.

And if you really choose to believe that, then you're like, yeah, well, of course, we're growing alongside as, you know, the show grows alongside the people. And you got to think, like, I really tried to believe that it is, it's got to be primarily the fact that you have 24 people in 27 days.

And you, again, yeah, 26 days, Jesus, there's barely more days than people. And again, all these people can carry a season. And like you said, yeah, I want to see coach. I want to see Ceree. Like, you know, obviously, like, as an entertainment guy, it's like, I want to know what Mike White's doing there. Like, I want to see Q.

I want to see all these individuals. Like, and every day you're seeing your favorite person marched to the town square and they rip their hearts out in front of you. And you're like, oh, my God. You know, it's tough. It's hard. And, you know, and it's definitely, it's easy to rip the show. And certainly they make it so easy sometimes.

But I do believe, I do believe this about the show is that the show is not perfect. I also believe that they are trying to do the best that they can. Are they always doing the best that they can? Obviously not. No. But I do feel like. that their heart is in the right place, and I do think that that's something. I don't think that they are trying to necessarily, like, get it wrong on purpose. Like, I really do think that

they're trying to do the best that they can. And I also do think that they do get better and grow from what they do. So it's hard. Like, is it perfect? No. Are they trying to get it right? I think so. I think so. Look, and you know what? There is no perfect amount of drone shots before challenges that is the right amount. But I appreciate that somebody in there believes that we, like, sometimes I get pulled out with some of the fast action. And then, you know, I was rewatching, like, Survivor Africa the other day. Because I know you've had Ethan's been out a bit recently,

and I've heard him on your podcast and Tyson's podcast. And I was like, let me go, let me check that out again. It'd be fun. And I get to see Big Tom and, you know, Lex and a bunch of the other, the gang in that season. And, like, you know, I missed the simplicity in a lot of it. But it's like, you know, you can't just keep watching the show the same way. I mean, again, what was that, 23 years ago?

22 years ago, something like this. It's got to change cinematically. And that's, again, that's what I appreciate, you know, in our art form. It's like, it's all about change. The moment is forever changing. And with clown as well, it's always you are in service of your audience. I will do whatever you guys need. And I am on my hands and knees with me.

I know. And that's my one only criticism is like, there is this conspiracy part of me that's like, I don't, I didn't vote for any of this. And I don't know anybody who did vote for this. And it doesn't, yeah. I know. And I'm like, and I don't, it doesn't feel like,

I love the idea of in the hands and the fans, but I feel like there should have been a vote for who we want in the show because I don't feel like, I at first was, when I was just thrilled to see everybody back. And then I had my little critiques where I was like, oh, I wish this person was here.

Like, oh, they put this person here. I'm thrilled with how it was cast. It's so lovely to see everybody back. I think everyone for the, like, for no fault of their own, maybe from the edits, has been pulling their weight and there was fun. You know, like I agree with a lot of the discourse

that we kind of got like a wasted Angelina spot where like I just didn't see anything from her and maybe they just chose not to. We never know unless you're there. But like I wish she's such a fun character. I wish I got like more of her. And then what I then also realized coming to your 50 event is like these aren't characters.

These are people. And everyone is presented as a character to me. And so I was like, you know, I've been to a bunch of, you know, bullshit networking things in my life. And I was like, oh my God, don't have to be like Mr. Hollywood here today. And everyone was just completely themselves and lovely and wonderful.

Like Shaheen and Brando and Kendra were so unbelievably nice to me. And Brandon was so nice to me and everyone. And I was like starstruck meeting on these people that I know so much about. And I'm like, oh no, I've just been like voyeuristically watching you for years. Like, and what does that say about me? You know, but these are people. First and foremost, they're people. I think so.

I think they did. Yeah. You know, so I'm fascinated to know from you as somebody who's rewatched so much of this survivor from all the old seasons, but you have this really unique perspective and vantage point. Who do you like to watch in terms of the people that are sort of like, and maybe for lack of a bedroom, like so bad that they're good to you? Oh, I mean, I love you, Candace Billy. He's the greatest of all time. That's like, that is the, that's like the single most defining. moment ever. Are you kidding me? That, like, that is, that's my guy.

That's my guy right there. Yeah, but then I also love, like, the reams of the world. Like, she went out first, right? And then was there all the way through extinction, was it an extinction that she was on? And you watch this, like, that is the spirit of the clown, but also, like, that's like the heart of it where it's like, you watch this person

who gets fucked over immediately. She is salty at everyone that comes through. But she doesn't stop taking care of everybody all the way. And she keeps fighting and she tries and she like holds her grudge, but she releases her grudge. And then she keeps going at it. And it's like that spirit to never give up to keep pushing that ball up the hill. It's like that's what you want to see from people.

You don't want to see people quit. Like I do like it is sometimes kind of funny when people get a little tummyache and like, oh, I can't go on anymore. But I'm like, you know, I don't know what it's like to be out starving and the freezing rain. And like, you know, I would like to think I could do all right on the show, but I also, like, I'm certain I would go out first, you know? But I, but aside from like the people, you know, like, again, like the reams, like, I love these situational moments of like the Francesca.

It's like, oh, how devastating to be called the wrong name twice by the same guy who is, you know, on another planet doing an operation CIA FBI mission. But like, to, like, that arc is like so deeply funny. But it's like, it's devastating. know, I like, I don't wish that upon anybody, but you have to step back and crack up that you're like, God, if she goes out first again, like, there's no way. And then it happens and you're like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. Um, but then I, yeah, oh, but you go ahead. You go ahead. Again, I can talk about this forever.

Playing Survivor ever. Of course. Of course. And to me, I'm just nervous that like, I think I'm a very social person. I love to connect with people. I love to fuck around. And my, my, my nightmare. scenario is like, you know, again, I am, again, I'm good friends with John Lovett, and I love him so much. And, you know, I've done his show a bunch. And when he, I didn't even know from him, he kept it for me. And he knew I was a fan. He didn't tell me. And his good friend or one of his former employees, Caroline, she told me about this. And I was like, you got to be kidding. I mean, I remember finishing, what was at 46 and seeing him on the promo. And I was like, is that why

there's not. And for his arc, it was so deeply funny to see the way he handled being out first. just like, I feel like that's going to be me. And if that's my story, I will make it as entertaining as possible. And I don't even know if I necessarily want to win the game. Of course I want to win the game. But I want to like, if I'm in a season, I want to be not in a new era, six split where everyone's going into four. And then maybe every now and then we pull one over on the fourth person in the group.

And it feels so calculated. Like, I want to play a bit like, do you watch the Australian Survivor season too? Do I watch the Australian Survivor? I happen to be very caught up on Australian Survivor. Yes. I mean, like Luke, to play some Luke style game where he's like, yeah, I just chucked the vote the wrong way just for a little bit of fun or like, you know, till they'll just kind of stir the pot. It's like, I want to play the game and I want it to be entertaining and I want to, I don't want to play mathematical survivor where everything happens the way that you would plan it. I want to live. I think I thrive in the chaos a little bit and the unknown of like, are we Dr. Stranging the world and putting everything in at the last minute? And is this going to happen? And I don't know if it's going to happen. And that's why I think these returning seasons are.

so fun is because it's so unpredictable. Well, the Australian Survivor, which happens to be very top of mind for me right now because I think that one of the things that I really have missed in the new era is they want these very small tribes, dangerous, fun, six person, nowhere to hide. And they think that they feel like, okay,

this is great because we will know in every vote what everybody's perspective is. And so we're as storytellers, this is better. But I think that with these bigger tribes, you have, as you are referencing an Australian survivor, maybe we have a group of 10 and we don't necessarily know who everybody is in the group of 10. But for the three or four people that we deeply care about, their options are almost unlimited. And there is that the magic that comes out of that sometimes, I think that the return is higher than there is of, okay, we know who everybody is.

and really their choices are very limited, sort of down to sort of like a binary choice of either this will happen or this will happen, where, as you mentioned, Dr. Strange, what a great way to describe all this. In a tribe of 10, the possibilities and the worlds are endless. And I think that that as a survivor fan is so much more fun to explore.

It's also because the fallout of it is a whole other thing is like, how can you patch up? I think Christian's done a pretty good job but Emily have done good jobs patching things up in some of the tribal councils afterwards where it's like hey just gotta rub your friends back

to be like hey it was not like this and that's a whole art form in itself is the personnel management what if Ozzy is saying like no no I'm not good now yeah well then you gotta you gotta listen to him and then you gotta go hey I'm of service of you

if you decide for your game that it's important to have Oscar on your side so that Ozzy doesn't come out then you gotta placate him and you gotta do whatever you need to do and sometimes it's so amazing to watch this gameplay happen. And then other times as a fan, I'm like, oh my God, they're doing my boy dirty.

He's falling for it again. Like, you know, when him and Ceri linked up in the beginning, I was like, please, both of you, for both of your guys' sake, don't spree each other over. Please promise me that you're working together when I saw that solidify, like, ah, my heart got to, you know, rest a bit. But like you said, in these larger tribes,

when you have eight to ten people on there, you can have factions, you can have three factions of three all fighting for that single one or all nine of them can turn on the one or two of the threes get to come together and you really get to see the splintering off of these relationships. And like

I love, I even, I rewatched maybe Winners of War maybe like a few months ago and there was a one episode where everyone's like God, Nick just keeps buttoning into everybody's conversations and you just see him keep walking in and being, what's up, what's going on? What are you guys talking about? Like those little edits like that with Aubrey as well, it's like, hey, let's have a dialogue.

Like all those, all those fun edits like they got to be cracking up putting those things together and i love to watch how people either shut down or open up as these people come through and you have to then be so again you you obviously know having played like and then also playing traders too it's it's got to be so different from the other side of the screen where you're like oh my god like what's going on here or again watching you and traders it's like you were right like rob something is happening right now and i'm like there he is and then i'm like wait a minute they're going to get them aren't they they're going to get them because they know this, and as a fan who loves to watch great game players play, I am,

I think it's an easy out to say with some of these shows that the best players get out first and then it gives no credit to the people who make it. I don't think that's entirely true, but there is undeniably a trend where it's like, I want to see you play this game. I get bored when the great people are out at a certain point and it allows new people to flourish, but like, I don't know, I just, I obviously love like electric game play. play and I love that really intricate, like, you know, a philosophical way to play and the dissemination of information and how, based on what's going on, being super perceptive, you can one little tick or one little tell can affect the way that you then approach the whole

rest of the night. And it's like, that's what brings me to it. And I just, I get bummed when I think we get short changed from that. It's really hard with these shows. And I don't know if anybody has a great solve for it because you have the players who want to shine the brightest and make the biggest moves and play the hardest. And I think that often they are celebrated and shown in the edit. And there's glory that comes from that. And that's the appeal where we want to be that person who's figuring it all out. Personally, I mean, that's why I wanted to be a faithful. And I wanted to be, you know, on the on the traders. I really wanted to go out there. You were too good. And I wanted to shine. I sort of like wanted, I felt like I had something to prove. And I really wanted to go out there.

and but it's not necessarily the right way to win the shows. And there is like a balance. And I think that really when we look at somebody, even like to go back to Risgod where I think that in his first season, he really had it right where he was shining in the confessionals, but kind of a little bit more mild-mannered in any, he would let people see that at tribal council. And I think it rubbed people the wrong way.

But there is, I do think, a right way to play some of these things where if you can bring it to the confessional but not show it as much to the people that are there and then use the final tribal council to be able to say actually I was the one doing everything but it's really a very tough thing to calculate because some the jury doesn't always see it no and it feels like it takes a ton of discipline like I feel like if you were told if you were dropped into any season of Survivor any these game shows I feel like you with the history and experience that you have would go, okay, here's the right way to play this. But if you, like you said, I'm going to shine in my moments out here and I'll hang back here,

but it's like, is that always the most fun way to play? And I think I am lucky in my art form that like the most fun way to play is a lot of times at the detriment of my show, but more than the show being good is, does the audience have a good time? And I think it's a, that's the thing to solve where it's like, I want you to play the most fun version of the game you want to play, not the one that you have to feel like you have to play. Yeah. And I kind of feel that life is too short.

You should just go for it while you're there. Go for it. Maybe it'll work out. It probably won't. But do the thing, do the version that has no regrets. Because you could play a tighter. And this was the advice that Boston Rob gave me before I went to go play on the trade. He's like, hey, Sestanino, just shut up.

don't say anything. Just talking the confessionals, don't you? And I was given advice by somebody else that they said, you know, don't leave with your light still inside you. And that was the advice that, right? And Boston Rob, that was great advice. That was great advice to give to somebody. But that wasn't necessarily what I wanted because the thing is you're also at the mercy

of the edit where you can play smaller and just say things in the confessional. But when you're playing smaller, there's probably, as maybe some of the people in Survivor 50, maybe they say, okay, I'm going to be a little bit more under the radar. Well, if you're under the radar, they're not necessarily inclined to, unless you have the perfect cutting remark, that a lot of times your stuff is probably going to get left on the room floor to the detriment of people that were a little bit more in the story and in the edit. because they were bolder and bigger and took more chances. And so there's a entire chance that you, okay, I played it the smartest possible way. And I also wasn't seen in the show. And I think that like with the traders, for instance, like my friend Mark Ballas, I feel like that that was kind of his story in the traders where he played incredibly smart. But it was a little bit of a safe game.

and it was one that he was largely left out of the overall edit. Yeah, and it's like, look, on the opposite side, it's like there's nobody in the world who would deny that you'd rather hang out with him than Michael Rappaport. However, the man with the magic ears is one of the funniest things I've ever heard in my entire life. Like, it's whether or not you like the guy, you got to admit, he knows how to talk shit.

And that was so funny in that moment when he was backs against the wall, you know, letting, you know, letting, you know, letting people have it. But I think that's exactly the right way to do it is like, can you leave everything on the line? Do you want to do it the way that you want to do it? And it's got to be tough because for you, you're balancing a really tough group of people on the traders, which is totally separate from Survivor, where you've got people already with celebrity and returning players for sure. But like you've got people who are coming in with celebrity and image and ulterior motives where it's like, I'm here because I want to come back and be in the zeitgeist because I'm launching

something or like oh you know like Tiff saying like I really need this money and then you're watching her leave and then she gives the read of the year it's like y'all get what you deserve and it clear you didn't deserve me and I was like get it girl like thank you good and then hearing your guys as interview after that I was like thank god like here's two awesome people that love and respect each other and like you know you don't have to be friends with everybody on the cast of everything you do I think that's almost you know I try and you got to try but I think it's unreasonable to assume you'll all connect that way but to see the people connect that way that you want to connect is lovely.

And it's like you see the two types of people like you where I don't know what your motivations were for this, but I've heard you say many times, I wanted to feel like I had something to prove, or I felt like I had something to prove, and I wanted to prove to my audience. And it's so fascinating to hear you say that because you're already a legend in so many ways in this way.

And so to see that you still have that hunger and that you have that desire to be like, wow, I got to go back out there still and show them that I got this. Like, can you ask for anything? more as a fan. Like, that's, that's what we want to see. And it's like, again, these are the people that should be coming back, you know? So I, as a viewer, I appreciate that. And I'm super inspired. Yeah. Thank you so much. That really does mean a lot to me. And I'm glad that that's what you

took away from that time going back. Oh, yeah. And you crushed. And we were all like, yeah, obviously he was the best and smartest person here, so they got rid of him. That sucks. There's a flaw with the game. You know, that's like, that's the thing. Yeah, it really is more of an issue on the traders than Survivor. In Survivor, I think you do have more outs to be able to defend yourself, even though you couldn't get to a situation where it's like, okay, well, obviously, this person has to go. And I think that you sort of like more in the end game

than in the, you know, in the early days of Survivor. But it certainly is a thing, especially when you get to a small group in the beginning of the game. Has there ever been, I'm trying to think, no, because I think there was like, you know, I would watch, you know, King George play on Australia. And it's like, you got to watch this where I'm like, everyone is so set that he is going home.

And every time they go into the tribal console, I'm like, this girl is not going home today. She's going to stay another day. And like, and someone else is going home. And somehow George is going to maneuver it out of there. Was there ever a moment with you personally on Survivor or are you watching as a fan where you were like, I'm certain, like, it's got to be you.

But then either you started cooking up the plans or you started to notice that there was another moment where you were like, oh, man, there's actually like another thing. going here because that again that is like the fun yeah that's the fun part so that is the dream to be able to uh do that so it didn't really happen to me in survivor i think don't think that the game was fluid enough but i've told this uh a little this is something that that didn't make the edit and again that's the thing with like not playing big is that you don't know what they're going to necessarily show but in that first episode of the traders where everybody got

the casket in their grave and I was on, I was marked for death and I was basically looking into the abyss of like, wow, I'm going to be the first person that they got murdered. I came all the way back. It's been 20 years since I came on a show. I'm going to come out here and I'm going to get murdered first. This sucks. What can I, what can I do in this spot? And I, and I was the thing that was my greatest thrill, which was something that ultimately didn't end up in the show, was that I was in the car with Ian Terry and Mark Ballas and I was like, I got it. We're going to get the traders to kill Michael Rappaport. And it was something that I felt like was so out of the box of that I've never really seen that in the traders where faithful is like, I know he's a faithful. I know he's not

a traitor. And if I can expose to everybody that he is so obviously a faithful and a bad faithful that the traders just take him off the board. Like I thought that that was like, that'll save us. And instead of him getting banished, could we just establish him as enough of a faithful that the traders will just kill him tonight? And so I thought that this is the plan. We're going to go, he's going to be tired.

He's going to be cranky. He's going to be on one. Can be eating foot off his plate like this? Let's get back to the castle. let's talk about how he is, he is really, like, pissed off.

He's, and he's coming for whoever said his name and get him worked up to the point where he creates such a distraction that the traitors will just kill him. And so, and then I came back to the castle

and then he did get into a big fight with everybody. And I really just felt, and I was sitting right there, and I was just so tickled. And it was just such a thrill to be able to do it. And again, in the, in the storyline,

I, that it came, up where that Candace said something to Portia and Porsche was the one that confronted him. And that was the story that they told in the show, which may have been ultimately the bigger reason why he got into this big confrontation. But I felt like that I was fanning the flames. And I went home that night and I was just like so pleased that I was like, hey, I got a, I got dealt bad cards.

I played it as best as I could. And I didn't go out like a chump if this is going to be how ultimately. You went out swinging. I went out swinging. And ultimately the traders didn't kill Michael Rapp. ultimately Donna Kelsey didn't put him on the list, so it wasn't even a possibility. I know. You know, trying to get.

And again, there's all these things that you don't even know. And also, again, brilliant, brilliant move because that's the thing. So I would have tried to make a comparison between the two and ask what you feel is the difference. It feels like, especially early on in traders, when you have nothing, as soon as people start ganging up on someone, it's almost impossible to defend yourself. And you don't have the lifelines. I guess this year they had Rob had the sword or whatever he found, you know, but like the dagger, the daughter of truth or whatever the hell it is, you know?

And like, you, once people start ganging up on you, the mob mentality of like, hey, I just don't want it. I think that's where the real Sandra anyone but me starts to kick in. But to anybody and you pointed it out as clear as day, you're like, guys, if this dude is a traitor, this is the worst game ever being played. Like, it's the worst game of all time. And anyone who knows anything about competition, personal relationships, any of these shows, which like I don't expect everybody on here to know, but it's like, y'all, you're on the traitors,

you got to know a little bit about this. I'm like, don't you think this is the most obvious play of all time? Well, so, Zach, there's an idea that I have for the traitors, more so than for Survivor, of that somebody like who is willing to be a performer, to be a clown, I do think that there is an intentional rapaport strategy that somebody. but he could come in and come into the traders. And sure, you could certainly crap out with this strategy. But until Michael Rappaport got to the point where there was the whole thing with Colton,

where people, they just had it with him. They were just done. With him. But the traders were trying to keep him alive. They were trying to drag him as far as they could into the game. And I think that the intentional Rappaport is a very viable strategy for, somebody to come in. I like patenting it as the intentional rap report. I like that patent. Yes. Oh, I've thought about it. It's true. It's totally true. And the thing is, and it's, it sucks because

I feel like everybody likes you so much that people would be like, the fuck's up with Rob. Something's happening here. Like, he's not, he's not being himself right now, you know? I could do it. And I don't know if you could win. I think you get to a point where, uh, like at some point, like, I think you ultimately, they don't even let you get to the fire of truth. Eventually, people are like, all right, are we really going to the fire, treat with this guy? But in terms of if you wanted to dominate the air time and you wanted to

really, you know, make it far enough and sort of like have a permanent shield as a faithful, I think the intentional rapid port is interesting. I think I, man, I'm going to start. So this is where the fun part comes with me is like in the dissemination of information, the pipeline of information, the flow. This is probably maybe been the most,

besides just seeing the most incredible fun characters, you know, again, the coaches, I love Courtney from Heroes, Villains. I forget which first was it, China was her first season? Yes. Like, love, I love, like, she's so funny to me, and she cracks me up. Like, I love these personalities,

and, oh, man, I'm, like, losing the threat on my own, on my own thought here. What were we just saying? Were we just saying a second ago? The intentional rap report, and then you said, the intent of 48's. Oh, my God.

I had what I thought was going to be the most poignant thing I was going to say all the, oh, the pipeline of information. And it feels like what I really love from all of these shows is, if you know something that no one else knows, then truthfully this information will never come out. However, no matter who you tell, it's always going to be kind of like those pinball effects of like,

it's going to fill up everyone's bucket. And how do you want that bucket to get filled? If I tell you, are you, who's Rob going to tell? And is it better for these people to hear this information from Rob? or does it damage my game or how does that affect and shift the paradigm at all times? Again, going back to that Dr. Strange analogy. And I feel like for us doing a running a variety show, so I run my variety shows called Stampedown.

And we also work with a bunch of artists. And we're all a bunch of very sensitive clowns and cabaret performers and divas and drag queens and dancers and musicians. And you've got to be very careful who you tell what and how it goes. And if you want certain, like all of it comes from like the desire. to put on the best show. And if you want to layer the jokes and the structures of how you do it, it's like, well, you kind of have to choose

how these dominoes are going to fall. And you got to pick each time, I'm like, okay, if I know I tell my friend Corey this thing or Corey goes out here first, that's going to set the tone for these next few people and sort of establish the scene for how this is going to go. But if I don't tell them and I let this happen and I trust maybe they might just pick up on this,

like if I give him the flare, then he can come and then someone else might think, oh, this guy's initiating it. And it's kind of like what Christian's doing with Rick right now, where I don't know why Rick decided to take credit for it. But like, you know, hey, you take the credit for this and I can kind of sit back. And I've still got the advantage for this. And that has been like one of my, the most fascinating things for me to enjoy. Christian is keenly aware, like Rick's alter ego is I'm the idol guy.

I'm the guy that finds idols. So sure. Sure. Tell people that I'm finding idols because that plays into my survivor persona of being the person who's got the nose for are the idols. He said it early on. He's like, hey, I'm, I love idols. I'm the idol man. I'm the idol guy. So sure. Do you think that's helping him? I guess we can pull it back into the personas of the people in this year. Has there been anybody that you were, because again, I know you know all these people personally, so it's got to be fun to know them as individuals and then

see them on screen, which is how, again, I feel watching my friends perform. Like, is there anyone who you're really, really, we don't have to say any of them, be like, oh my God, who's not carrying the way? I don't want that question. Is there anyone you're really impressed with who you're like, oh, I really, I'm like loving the way they're playing or I'm really enjoying the change between either their last time they played or one of the other previous times. So for me, I think that Genevieve was certainly one of those people where I thought that Genevieve was somebody who I thought was going to be in a lot of trouble in Survivor 50. And I was really impressed with her how she came back and I felt like that she did have a very positive evolution.

I felt like that rather than being somebody who was dealing with wounds from her first time, I felt like that she was somebody who was able to, this is, I feel like to iterate off of taking back the feedback of what she did in 47 and using it to springboard positively and come back as a more polished version of the Genevieve that we saw in Survivor 47. So I was really enjoying, watching that version of her participate.

And ultimately she didn't get to come back and do that. She's remarkable. And I hope, I know she said she doesn't want to do it ever again, but I'm like, you know, for the love of God. I know, and I know that part of that is also, that's part of the information where it's like, I'll never do this again. So the casting goes, do we ask them?

And then they go, we got them. And, you know, it ultimately works for everybody. But, like, I would love to see her play again. She's a master. I also think that part of it is just in the psychology of the survivor players. I think that the survivor players are, are most threatened by the people who are the most hungry, for the people who really want it.

I think you show up on the beach and you know it's like, okay, I know how bad they want it. That's scary to me. You sort of like, I think that, and one of the things that I think that, you know, to go look on the other side of the coin about the Aubrey is to watch her, is like, you look at her and it like, I don't know, does she, I don't know how if she even wants to be here.

She doesn't seem like she's that into it. And I think that that's the type of thing where I'm not as scared about that. Now, listening to Aubrey's interviews, Aubrey, she came so close to winning in Survivor Co-Rong. Of course, she desperately wants to win. But she doesn't project that. She projects this vibe of like, I don't know. It's very Eeyore of her. And I think it's really working.

And again, I wish, as a super fan of both her and Genevieve, I wish they would have linked up because I feel like they would have had everything they wanted, you know? She had such an interesting confessional in the last episode where it was that her idol information was out there. She's like, so everybody knows that I have an idol. Yeah. Cool. Like this is what she said.

And I could just like I didn't have the closed captioning on, but I could, I could see it like K-E-W-L was in my mind how that was spelled in the closed caption. Cool. Cool. See, you've got great. Can I say also, may I compliment as a character performer myself? I love all of your voices in person. You get all the characters in your face, and you can tell there's a love between you and all of them.

And we, at our clown school, it's like one of our earlier exercises we would do is we would all mock each other. And it's like to have the fun to laugh of your friend and to do their ways. Like I love obviously when you do Rob's voice, but even just the opera, you see it in the face there and it comes through so fun.

And that, again, those little moments, those micro things, whether or not I'm picking up on them, that's what I love about the show is like, oh, that is so characteristically, Aubrey, that is these people. That's one of the things I've really loved with this is where we really get to know these people. And, you know, I don't mean to mock anybody, but I feel like that when you have looked at these people for so long,

I think that you can sort of like pick up on their essence, and I love it when I can adopt some of the mannerisms of these people. Because I feel like I then I understand them more of where they're coming from. Of course. It's so fun to go back. And then as the fans too watching it, it's like, if you can't latch on to such a strong characteristic of somebody, it's like you probably don't remember them. So if they have all these golden moments, it's like, you know, everybody has, even watching Jeff do his impressions of them, I was like, you know, I like yeah you know I don't need him

wrap it on every episode I know he's aware and I know he's ultimately he's having fun and I'm happy that he's having fun so you know hey let him let him have some fun but like that that to me I think shows the strength within the community is like if you ask everybody on that show to do an impression of somebody from that season everyone's impressions are basically going to all be in the same realm of a then diagram and it's like

that is that is the familiarity that we love we love I think as performers and as viewers to be able to connect with that, to be able to relate to that thing that we all love. And we're like, you saw that too? You saw them do that. You saw the way she kind of threw it. It's like, you know, it came from the jaw all the way out,

and her eyes are up like this. And you also see somebody who is, it's so beautiful. Again, it comes from that, like, place of underneath. It's like, what's she going to do? You have two options. You can either be super pissed off at everybody and be upset that everybody knows that you have this, or you can choose to not be upset about it.

And just go, hey, it is what it is. I've got the skill set to maneuver this. I don't need to waste a single bit of energy convincing anybody. There's anything else going on other than what is exactly happening. Here I am. And we love that. We love that honesty, that honest, that like, hey, here's the moment. This is what's happening. We all know. And then we all feel clued in. We all know exactly what's going on.

And then you start to root for these people even more. You know, I want her to pull off. Like, I was hoping, I didn't want Jenny Biv to go home. But I was hoping for that kind of justice. of like, is she going to get voted off because Aubrey plays an idol on herself? And I'm like, well, that's how you got to, if you're also Genevieve and you're a fan of the show

and you're seeing me edit in the season, it's like, well, it's poetic justice to get idled off by the only idol I didn't find. Yeah, it's Shakespearean, and I love that. It's tragic. And you, as a lover of the game, like you, obviously you want these great narratives to play out. Where are my gloves?

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After 19 years, they're back. Frankie Munis, Brian Cranston, and the rest of the family reunite in Malcolm in the Middle, life's still unfair. After 10 years avoiding them, Hal and lowest demand Malcolm be at their anniversary party, pulling him straight back into their chaos. Malcolm in the middle, life's still unfair. A special four-part event, streaming April 10th on Hulu on Disney Plus.

Do you do any impressions of any survivor players? God, you know, like kind of me and my friend Dylan, my best friend, Dillon and I love to watch it. We love to always kind of like, again, the way we say this, we say, I don't laugh at you or on you. I laugh of you. I want people to laugh of me.

And it comes, my other comedy partner, Vigo, he's Norwegian, he's ESL. And he once said, like, the audience is not the laughing of me tonight. And I was like, ever since that,

I was like, okay, laughing of me is my thing. And we like to laugh of Jeff. And every time Jeff, you know, reads the votes, we always like fake read a bunch of votes

where it's like, no one's understanding it, you know, we'll be like, first vote, steak free, this is not a restaurant. All right,

remind you, you have to vote for people who are in the room. second vote. And it's like, we'll pull up like another friend of ours. Like, you're not in the game.

I mean, you can't vote for that. And then we like to always bring back the, like we have a whole large game that we then build where like Rob and Sandra when they're in there for 39 where they're like in the bird cage

and it's like in the middle of the beat like the vote reading. It's like Robo is going, hey, Jeff, beer me, be me Jeff. Come on.

Throw me a beer. And you're like, Rob, you're not in the game. You're not in this season. Next vote. And you're like, like again,

steak free. This is not a restaurant. You know, just keep doing this over and over. So we love to play these like these like big, you know, games on it like this. But the Jeff Bemi from Rob is always one that cracks me up. I don't think this has ever happened. I mean, I made this up entirely. That it's fun to imagine that, you know, Boston Rob is giving drink orders to Jeff.

Yeah. In the Middle of Tribal Council. Yeah. From the hidden room. from the hidden room and he's been there for the last 11 seasons and nobody knows he's still up there Sandra went home she raised the flag

and she went out she's done about she went on Australian Survivors she's been on traitors Rob is still in the bird cage there Yes now you know that that was invented by Jimmy Fallon the island of the idols not the concept for the season

but the Robin Sandra Booth was a Jimmy Fallon invention damn that's I've mixed feelings on him because he's fired a bunch of my friends as writers on the show but I appreciate his fandom could you imagine it

that they got voted out I can I can and I'm bummed and I'm like they gotta do something about this format and maybe maybe they'll bring them back as returning players

and they'll come back yeah exactly like a better story arc maybe I would I love that. I mean, look, I'm happy when what I do appreciate about him is that he always gives Survivor and as many

of the people who, you know, the press for Survivor wants to put forward gives him a slot on the show. And I appreciate that because that's more fun stuff that I get to watch. Do you have any inventions that you would like to see on Survivor as an innovator? This is the question that I have been prepared for and I was like,

okay, I have to pitch some like good Survivor themes, like some episode themes or season arcs. Because I miss it, I miss it, you know, I think one thing that really hindered the new era is the fact that it almost all feels interchangeable, and that is not a dig at anybody. I love so many of the new era players, but it's just, it's, it's tough when you don't have a label to recognize or encapsulate this in. And I also loved in the labels that people would play like the label, that, that Lord of the Flies element a bit

where it's like, if your brain's Braun Beauty, you're going to play Braun, you know, like Scott Pollard's big NBA, I'm going to play it like this, or like, you know, the beauty team's like, fuck it, we're hotter than everybody, so we kind of got this thing. Like, you know, I love all of that. So I miss those, but I don't know if there's an exact invention, but I would love a season called Survivor Secret Friends, where it's like 10 players on each tribe, eight on each tribe, and one person, someone is best friends with somebody on the other tribe,

or their brothers, and they have a very special secret relationship. It's almost like an incognito blood versus water, and I'm sure this has been said before, but I love the idea of no one knows who that other person could be and then maybe the larger pull was like everybody except one person knows each other and they don't know that but it's almost like a Truman show

within the season. So I like that. I think that would be the most fun is that we don't call it that in terms of like maybe we could call it that after the season is over. But what I like is like are people thinking like, hey, I've got the secret advantage. Exactly. Exactly.

What they don't know is that my brother-in-law is on the other tribe. But it's like, yeah, what they don't know is that actually my au pair is on the other tribe. Yeah. Yeah. And like, that's actually my, that's my step sister. You know, it's like you have all these days. I think you have to you label it just. Somebody will leak that they have a secret relationship.

And then the other person will be like, who should I tell them? And then it's like, wait, hold on. What if everybody has a secret relationship? Truly. And then it's like, if you and I mean, out there and, you know, let's say you and I were the secret friendship, and we both go out there, and on day one, I'm like, dude, can you believe this? Like, are you kidding me? How? What are the odds? And you're just, as a viewer, seeing eight different of those conversations happen. Like,

is that not the funniest thing in the world, you know? And then this is something, like, in, you know, the international trade, in the traders UK, there'll be like, oh, okay. The mother and son. But it'll be like, okay, okay, so, so me and my accountant are on the other tribe. look at, look at this person and that person. Like, they're obviously brothers, but they're not. And it's like, and they get accused. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, it's not. No, we're not, I don't know this guy.

You'll never convince me. Like, I'm from Nebraska. And because that's, I think that's also, you know, I get, I get upset. The only times I ever get bummed out is like, you know, not to be like, oh, I'm Mr. Empath over here. Because I love a good blind side and I love a good backstab too. But it does, I do get, I do. It happens, I think, more in traders than in Survivor.

But I do get bummed when people kind of get bullied so hard to a corner that they like submit. And it's like, that's never fun. You know, I want to see people's backs against the wall where they still have that fight. Yeah, exactly. You need a shot in the dark in some way of like, which, what's your opinion on the shot in the dark? Do you like it? I think it's really good. I think it's a little bit of a convoluted thing that is kind of impractical.

But I think it does help preserve the blind side. And I think that ultimately it is a pot. I'm pro shot in the dark. Yeah. I like the fact that it can be used as a bargaining chip. And I think you see the way that like it's almost, I think Christian giving it to Ozzie and two episodes ago, that is, I think, as well as you can play it as if you played it and it was safe.

You know, like to be able to use it like that to extend trust and or to give trust and extend your life in the game is just as important as if you were to pull a safe on a vote. And so you then in a way get to get multiple uses out of it besides using it for its proper functions. So that, again, nice to see. And then I've also equally, again, is the clown lover of the show who loves the moments where it doesn't go well.

I've loved, like, I think there was some early 40 seasons where someone first felt was like, I'm playing it. And it's like, girl, you didn't need to play this. Like you were fine. You've actually screwed your numbers now. Yeah, I know. And you're like, oh, I'm safe. And you're like, well, you didn't need this.

Yeah. No, I know season 44 actually was the season that featured somebody who you went to high school with, according to our research. And this is when you were a new Survivor fan. What was it like? So that you went to high school with Claire Raffson. I sure did. Hey, Claire. I saw Claire last night with Brandon, which is so lovely. Her and my brother are good friends too. It was awesome. You know, her sister, she's two older sisters who are also one of them is my. one of them's in between us. I think she and I are four years apart. You know, maybe, I think we were like, would have been freshmen and freshmen. So I've like known her for a while and known her family for a while. And it was awesome to see.

I mean, I'm like, I think I did a triple take where I was like, hold on a second. I know you. And I did the same thing with Love It. I just like couldn't believe that somebody that I knew in my life was in this show.

And, you know, I knew at the time my brother was going to the New York watch parties when she was living in New York when this aired and like each week, you know, getting together in the bar and having fun. And I was definitely,

devastated when she left. I was angry. I was angry at the season. And, you know, again, the season gave us some great characters. So I was not ultimately upset overall. But I was bummed out as it was happening because I was like, that's my girl. I wanted to, I wanted to keep going. Yeah. All right. Zach, is there anything else? Oh, no, we're at the end. It doesn't have to be. I mean, look, you know, I'll stay in chat with this for you forever. I feel like what I was hoping to come on here was to just let everybody know in this world, hey, I love this so much, and you've got an ally and a friend of me

who loves Survivor as much as you guys. And I was hoping to, I had so many questions I wanted to ask you, because I mean, I don't get, I don't get many opportunities. Um, okay, do you think, do you think it should go back to 39 days? I don't think it has to.

I think 39 days is just sort of an arbitrary number that they came up with back when, okay, every three days, 16 people. And so I think that, look, in a perfect world, if they could get it to 30, I think that that's like a nice round number. Just a little bit, yeah, a month. Like, be a little.

But I think that some of the survivors is so inflexible of like, no, no, no, we said it's 26, it's 26, that's perfect now. Like, why? Why 26? Why is 26 the right number? Could you just say, like, we tried 26, it's a little too short. 39's too long? Yeah. Like, you know, what if we, like, could we try 30?

I do think that as a whole, I understand that there's a lot of different issues at play in terms of the production of the show. But I think that at the same time that they sort of like squeeze the production schedule down to 26 days, they've also extended the episode like run times. So it's a little watered down in terms of like there's less to pull from. So I think 30 would be great. but I haven't really ever been a big complainer about 26 days. Yeah, I think the one thing for me is I miss, I mean, I guess for me as a viewer, again, I don't wish the elements on anybody,

but watching people start to lose their minds and unravel a little bit more feels like that was a big part of the earlier iterations of Survivor that like, it's not even that you're like, oh my God, isn't fun, this person's going nuts. It's like, that is the reality you have to deal with is like to be able to pull it all together, especially at that final tribal council, maybe having had three actual rewards

throughout the entire season, if you're lucky, three rewards worth of food. You know, I can only imagine how in some of the earlier versions, you know, like when you guys are in different terrain, if you're in the Amazon,

if you're, you know, wherever the hell you are, like, you've got to really trek for what you need. And I think that part of it is like such a, it was like such an obvious undercurrent or undertone to the experience that I feel like gets lost a little bit more, A, from a bit less of days. And B, like, I get, of course, if I was in Fiji and I probably had the palace that Jeff has

and the setup there, and it's a gorgeous place to be, I wouldn't want to leave either, but I miss that travel element of it. I missed that cultural element of it so much. Yeah, I don't complain about that also because I feel like it's, again, if it helps keep the show on the air, I understand that, you know, yeah. I agree. You don't have to, like, start the whole production over in, like, let's say we're going to go to some other tropical locale.

And now, like, well, we have all the puzzles are in this other place. You know, it's a whole different construction issue. So I understand the desire for it, but it's not something that I actually complain about too much. Well, so this is maybe then another fun thing is like the integrity of the

the, like, we're kind of going through this right now. We have a huge opportunity. Stamtown has been an underground punk comedy, circus, alt, vaudeau. show for years. And we're about to be on Netflix. And, you know, there's a lot of the elements that we didn't necessarily get that we wanted to be able to put on this best show. And at a certain point, it's like, well, if we can't deliver what we want, is it worth doing it? Even though

that's a crazy thing to say. But, you know, I'm a passionate artist and this is my life's work. And I love this thing. And I'm like, well, is it best to keep it going if it doesn't feel like the right representation or the most authentic representation of the piece? Or do you take the opportunity and hope that you're able to go from there? And so maybe this leads into a survivor of like, is the longevity at the potential risk of quality, if you believe that, worth keeping it alive? My dream is that you keep it alive and you keep the quality high

and you keep, you know, I like the fact that you're changing it. But like, I mean, how long, like, for you, how, because I never want Survivor to end But I imagine someday it's going to have to. How long do you, how much life do you still think it has left? Do you think there's a life beyond Jeff at some point if he wants to do that? I do think there's a lot of life left in Survivor. I do think that there is a life beyond Jeff. They've built such an infrastructure there.

I think that's part of the reason of like keeping it in Fiji. It's just very turnkey at this point in time. I think that they could continue to, you know, I think another host could step in. and obviously would have big shoes to fill, but I think they could take over for what Jeff has built. I mean, Jeff kind of has two roles, though. He's the showrunner and then also the host of the show. And I think that the show, that somebody as a different showrunner than Jeff,

I think would be like the more interesting thing to try to imagine what that would be like, because I think you could take the creative in a lot of different directions. I think that the host, while Jeff would be, Survivor, I know I always would be unrecognizable without Jeff as the host. I do think that... Of course. I think that Jeff might be more likely to step away as the host than as the showrunner. I think that there is still a version of Survivor where Jeff may not necessarily want to be the on-camera face of the show

and could be a little bit more like what Mark Burnett was in the early days of the show. And then another person could be potentially hosting the show with Jeff Probst still involved with it. So I do think that definitely there is a very long shelf life. with what Survivor could be. And I think that there's all of these stories that we still want to see from these different players that we're invested in

and seeing these Survivor legacies come out. And I think that at the end of the day, what I would love for Survivor 50 to be. And I was really apprehensive about the idea of, hey, we're bringing in so many new people and like there were so many other legends that we didn't get to see. But I think that what Survivor 50 could be

is that a season where we really do pass the torch from one generation of the show to another. And I think that they really did miss that in a lot of ways. And I think that when Survivor is at its best, where we have in, say, you know, Heroes versus Villains and, you know, Survivor fans versus favorites, where, you know, we have the legends, but we're also making the new legends

and the people there's a passing of the torch. We didn't have that when they didn't bring players back for so long, especially where the last returning player season was winners at war. And we didn't really mint new legends in winners at war, where it was sort of like, okay, these are already winners. And the winner of the all-winner season is somebody who was already kind of a legend. You sort of cemented Tony as a Mount Rushmore player. But you didn't really have like where some of the new young up-and-coming winners

didn't really become the new legends out of winners at war. So we've sort of been missing, elevated. sort of like the great players into the legends that we had done earlier in the show. And maybe that kind of is what they're doing where maybe Riz God is going to play four times and is going to be thought of one day like a Boston Rob type of figure where like he's on the past. He's maybe he and that has been his story of is that my my story is that I want to become one of the legends. and maybe that they're, you know, five, ten years from now, young players are going to be talking about Riz God with like this kind of reverence.

He's on the traitors. He's giving, he's giving your children advice on how to play his faithfuls. And maybe that is how, you know, like this next generation of Survivor players is going to be looking at Emily Flippin and D and some of these other players that, that come out of this who have now become, even, you know, Christian and Rick Devons and, you know,

are maybe talked about. in the way that people are talking about some of the survivor greats from the last generation. And obviously you still have, I think in this last episode, you really got that the most with Colby leaving the game, where you had Colby and Coach and Surrey were all celebrated. And then there was Dee as maybe one of the new legends who's kind of being minted out of the season. And Colby went off into the sunset. And I think you kind of have this like with the MCU where it's like, okay, the old heroes die, but the new heroes who are going to be fighting in the next wars are also sort of being minted.

And maybe I think that's kind of like the best case scenario for what season 50 turns out to be. I agree. And it's like, look, I don't want to let go of those people. And, you know, I think maybe had I done it differently, I would have loved to have had like at some point maybe in the 40s, like a 30s versus 40s season. Yeah. They kind of were it. Yeah. Or even like in 49, like an all-state. so that we could have seen all stars rolling into it. And again, these are all things that everyone has, yeah, I'm parroting stuff that, like, that everyone here has already said or disgusted at fun point.

Especially because if they were going to bring back Rizzo and Savannah anyway, it's like you definitely could have had like a new era all stars and bring, yeah. And then you get to see, and then you get to see who are, you know, obviously it's the jessies and the Carolins and the omers and the, you know,

folks and the Brandons and all the other people from the new, from the new era that you want to see come back through. and that maybe it's like, yeah, I understand maybe not for 50, but that does not take away from the fact that you are still awesome and should come back and then you think about yourself, like, oh yeah, who are some of the players that I love? Like, I didn't love their first season,

and it did take the second and third seasons to be like, oh yeah, you guys, you were right in the casting and I was wrong. I didn't quite see this. But I think that's a really, yeah, it's, do you, like, because I still, you know, I don't want to let go of these legends. I don't want to, I love all the new people and I want to prop them up too, like I don't want to, it's hard for me to let go of some of these people that I,

I care so much about. And I think that's the superpower of the show is that, you know, it runs deep. You, you, the, the fan base of the show and your specific fan base as well are diehards for, for this. And so that has been like, to see the community that it spawns is so wonderful. And like, you know, yeah, I mean, again, is just a lover of this. Like, I, I hope it goes on forever. And I, and I hope that we get to see more people. from the past come back and the new eras get uplifted. And hopefully one day my dream would be that you're back on the island and you need a guest host for an episode.

And I'll be able to fill in at some point while you're out there. And we get to be like, yeah, Rob's out there right now. And we'll see how it goes. A beautiful dream for both of us. And I do wonder maybe if there is a way where, you know, people, it was not necessarily received well, the Zach Brown of it all. But I wonder if there are ways where, you know, there's a point of diminishing returns

when you keep bringing the same people back over and over and over again. How many more times you know, could the show bring back, you know, legends and have there still be excitement and novelty, but could you potentially have in season 52, you're going to go

to the sanctuary. And at the sanctuary, you're going to hang out with Surrey. And then everybody's going to go. That's what I was hoping. And, you know, I think the end the fans instead of being like, what, why do we have to watch Surrey is going to cook a meal for them at the sanctuary? I think that people would be excited to hang out with... I think, look, I mean, that's what I was hoping 50 would be.

You know, I would have rather seen you out there and Tyson out there and Parvety out there. And, you know, I would have seen Debbie. I would have seen Debbie out there from Karang out there being like, all right, here's what I did. Don't do this. Or like, you know, when she had the Cochran reward, like, for the fans, If it's in the hands of fans, like, again, I'm sure Beast is a great dude, and Zach Brown is a nice guy, and I know Fallon is on the way,

and there's maybe another surprise or two, but like, I don't care, you know, and I, like, I want to see you guys. I want to see the people who they give it up to to have, like, you know, to have you and Jenna and Sandra come out and, you know, either, like, co-host a challenge or, like, be a part of a thing where it's like, you know, these new era people, like, you know, the old challenges where they had to, you know, rip the ring out in the water and touch.

you know, the poll, it's like, hey, you, like, both these teams, it's like, Rob's in goal on one side and James is in goal on the other side. It's like, you got to get, you got to get past these people. It's like, that would have been so fun to really activate and, like, set the fan base of blaze. And they've been averse to that and maybe they ultimately change their minds as, as they've seen, like, okay, well, we did this. I'm optimistic. Yeah, we did this with, with the Zach Brown types, but what if we did this with the people that we actually want to see?

What if we did this with Jen Brown or Nick Brown? Yes, exactly. Or instead of Zach Brown, Zach Zucker. You know, I mean, it's all right there. Or Zach Werdenberger, right? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

There we are. Yes. Okay. Zach, where could people check out more of your work and get ready for the Zach Zucker era? Oh, God. Please, I hope my Zach Zucker era is just starting. and everyone's on the tribe. I have, you know, we've got stuff all over the internet,

you know, for my, under my own name and under Stamp Town. You know, I have an alter ego, Jack Tucker. We talked about we're going to be releasing a special soon for that on YouTube, I believe, unless someone decides to buy it. And if anyone from Netflix and HBO is listening, we'd love for you guys to buy this for us. Otherwise, I am going to be taping a Netflix special May 8th and 9th in L.A. If you guys are in town, come to the Montelbon Theater.

There's a saying in the biz, and that saying is there are still a lot of tickets to sell. So come on down. I would love to have... Yeah, classic, classic. The tickets are not selling is what they usually say, but I'm trying my own spin on it. But we have these great tapings, and it'll hopefully end up on Netflix in the summer. And if it does... How cool is that?

It's crazy. It's been like a lifelong dream of mine for about 14 years, this idea of this, and to be able to get there, it's, you know, it's overwhelming, it's humbling, it's exciting, it's everything I thought, and nothing I ever expected, it's the hardest thing that's ever happened to me, where some days I feel absolutely crushed and paralyzed by it, and other days I'm like, I got this, I got this, I've been on exile in my own mind, and now I'm back and I'm returning, and I'm coach walking into the meetings, you know? Yeah, I'm tired.

God. Okay, another dream of mine to get a nickname from him. If I can get a nickname from coach, I'll feel good. I think you'll probably get a cameo if the price is right. Look, and I'm hoping to go through the cameo life version where I don't have to pay the coach fee for a nickname. Yeah. And then, you know, we're doing shows in New Zealand,

and we're doing shows in Edinburgh. We're in New York all the time, wherever you are. Yeah, we're all over the place. Again, if we're ever in the same city, I missed you at South by Southwest last year. Yes. This is one nerdy confession on my end. I was there in 23.

and then I saw you were there in 24 and look, there's new bookers on the comedy side so this is no shade to the new bookers but the old bookers didn't quite pay the rate that we needed and when I saw you were there I was almost like all right, should we go? Like I got to meet Rob and I got to invite him to the show but what if it stinks and it's not the version I want

and so we ended up not going but I we were close. You were the deciding factor for us. All right, well I'm glad that we have linked up now. I look forward to seeing the show whenever I get the chance to. Congratulations for all your success. Your energy is infectious and your love of Survivor is palpable.

And really, your stand-up is so fun and it's like nothing else out there right now. So congratulations to you. It is really so nice to talk to such a creative person. Man, that means the world. Thank you so much, Rob. Thank you for bringing people like me on this, all the other amazing comics and other comedians you brought on.

Please keep doing that. And I, anytime you need me for anything, please consider me in the stable from now on. What do you want to do? You want to fill in on a podcast? Do you want to interview somebody? I'll come in any time. Do you want to do the know-it-alls?

I'll interview people. Yeah. Of course. I would love to do the know-at-alls with you guys. I mean, if you ever just like, hey, we're bringing in, we just, we have this funny guy that we like and we're going to see if he wants, if he has anything fun to add. Like, I'll hop in with any, I'll hop in on anything. I can't, I can't express that enough.

And I'm, use me at your disposal. Use me at your will. I am of service of. of the RHAP network. All right. Listen, that is great to know and we'll figure something out. Okay. All right.

Thank you so much, Zach. And, of course, we'll be back at it for the next episode of Survivor. Survivor Know It All is coming up to talk about what's happening at the final 14. We'll find out on Wednesday night. Take care everybody. Good one. Bye. In a world filled with spam and scams where everybody's trying to rip you off,

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Give this man a fishy, please. One episode I keep coming back to in episode 170, Cashback versus Point. It's one of those listens that makes you feel like you've been doing something slightly wrong for years, and now you finally get it. I also encourage you to check out episode 213, talking about the five types of wealth. It's worth your time. If you ever stop to ask yourself, what are you actually working towards? Every episode has at least one thing that you can act on that same day. And when he brings on guests, he's got heavy hitters like Tim Ferriss, Ramit Sethi, and Gary Vee, the Real Deal.

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