Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice - Austin Hope - from 97 Points to World Domination - Building a World-Class Winery

Episode Date: May 18, 2020

On this special episode of the Radical Marketing Podcast Ryan sits down with Austin Hope, the award-winning winemaker, and owner of Hope Family Vineyards. Austin gives the origins of his family history in the wine business with some fascinating discussion around his time with Chuck Wagner the founder and winemaker of world-renowned Caymus Cabernet. Austin talks about his self-growth in embracing his name in developing the Austin Hope line of wines including his sizzling Cabernet which has scored 95 points or higher in every vintage and most recently was rated the #10 wine in the world in 2019 by the Wine Enthusiast. The 2017 Reserve Cabernet Ryan claims may be the best glass of wine he has tasted, ever! Taste and listen along! Links from this Episode: https://www.hopefamilywines.com/ Please share, review, and subscribe! The Radical Marketing Podcast is always looking for intriguing guests. Email inquiries to [e-mail] Follow us: @radical_results on Instagram @ryanalford on Instagram www.radical.company If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, join Ryan’s newsletter https://ryanalford.com/newsletter/ to get Ferrari level advice daily for FREE.  Learn how to build a 7 figure business from your personal brand by signing up for a FREE introduction to personal branding https://ryanalford.com/personalbranding.  Learn more by visiting our website at www.ryanisright.comSubscribe to our YouTube channel  www.youtube.com/@RightAboutNowwithRyanAlford. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Radical Marketing Podcast. Here is your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, it's Ryan Alford. Welcome to another edition of the Radical Marketing Podcast. You know, a little detour here from normal, maybe. But I know in talking to some of my friends, when I told them that I had a certain name to be mentioned shortly coming on the podcast, as Wino's like that we all are, there was a lot of excitement. because I don't know how Austin, but even Austin Hope in South Carolina is becoming a known name.

But Austin Hope, owner and winemaker of Hope Family Wineries, man. It's great to have you on the podcast. Thanks for having me around. This is super cool, man. I'm pretty pumped about it. Yeah. You know, you know, for a while. It's been, you always got good content.

It's fun. I love that. I appreciate you saying that. and my teams in in our studio here doing some BTS, they'll be excited and proud to hear that too. You know, when you own an ad agency, you got to put out some good content, you know? So appreciate the kind words.

And it's been great following you, you know, the winery business, you know, Instagram and technology and different things. It's funny that, you know, a lot of people haven't embraced things. And I know you're a little bit of a rebel as it comes. And we'll get into that. but it's been good following you and seeing behind the scenes of the winery and different things.

But I can't tell you again how excited I am to have you on and, you know, just want to get into it. So owner, winemaker, let's start from the beginning. So, you know, there's going to be some people that listen to our podcast that, you know, all right, who's this Austin Hope guy, you know, not me and some of our closest friends that were actually sipping on one of your wines last night. but but let's talk you know a little bit of the history you know your background I know it's a family business but let's start a little bit let's let's just start with a little bit of the origin story of your background and you know what's led to today so I'm a we're a third generation a California farmer that wanted to be a wanted to race Formula one cars growing up and

now I'm sitting here talking, talking to you. That's kind of the fastball. But if you start from beginnings, so my folks, they moved from Bakersfield, California, so I was born in Bakersfield. We moved to Pasobleau, in 1978, and started planting wine grapes. And so just to kind of give you a landscape set the scene. In 1978, there was, you know, less than a dozen wineries here. We probably count them on one hand actually and you know less than a thousand acres of grapes

and most of my folks started planting uh planting wine grapes in which was you know pretty unheard of we weren't very welcome into the community um honestly grapes were not uh were not not wanted by locals so this was a very much uh driven by grain cattle um some dry land almonds and walnuts scattered around the hillsides, but it was definitely a dry land, you know, wheat grains that they were growing. They didn't really go hand in hand together, grape farming and grain farming.

So they were, they didn't really like us. It was not an easy thing, and we'd be honest, we didn't know what the hell we were doing. So we came from a completely different background at the time. and my grandfather, my mom's dad, was in a beer business over there in Bakersfield, and he was a Texas immigrant during the Dust Bowl and was working for a little distributor

pushing Swiss chalet wines and Colt 45 and delivering those beers and wines out of one truck kind of deal. My grandfather was pretty smart about things, and he said, when it came up to the gentleman wanted to tell us just distribution, he said, I'll buy it. And he'd been squirling away money. And so he took that over. And he just started waiting to get another truck.

And then he kept, so he had Colt 45, all staff and a handful of other things. And then he kept going to Colorado every year and would knock on Adolf Adolf Coors door and say, hey, we want Coors, we want Coors. And he says, we don't have Coors. We can't go that far. And that went on for a while. And then finally, uh,

Adav said, okay, I'll give you Baker's filled the bar. So that's the territory you can have. They went from, you know, selling a few thousand things of, uh,

beer to, you know, selling a few million cases of beer in a few years. And, uh, my dad had worked for him. And then anyways, fast forward.

My grandfather passed away. My dad wasn't in a position to take over. Uh, so the company was sold, the general manager. And we, uh, uh,

borrow some money from my grandma, I signed a bank note. First, my dad went to, my dad, my grandpa was a best friend, which was another immigrant that came over, and he ended up in farming and banking and all kinds of things in the valley. And he says, what should we do? And he says, he always called everybody cousin. He said, cousin, moved to Pasovo's and plant apples live great. She can't screw that out. And so that's what we did.

I mean, literally, that's how much we do about farming. quickly learned that apples were not the right thing to grow in Pasco. And then just kind of transitioned over there over time into planning the right varieties. We sold our first ranch within a few years to somebody that had to have it. And we planned about two more pieces of ground and repaid debts and started farming more red grapes. And then as that progressed, I lived in the vineyards as a child. I mean, I grew up in them and hoed weeds every, you know, every day I was sold to. So I really, you know, grew up in the fields.

And then, you know, we, my uncle came into the business and he, he was more aggressive towards the wine side of it. So we started making some bulk wines and selling bulk wine here and there. And then that's where we met Chuck Wagner, which has his family started Liberty School. and then Liberty School we started over the years we started selling them bulk wine and then Chuck Wagner came down and says hey can you supply us

we think we're going to bring we want them to take Liberty School and say we can do it and bring it back out because it had kind of gone away in the past. In the beginning it was truly a second label of Cayman so whatever leftovers they had off of the

Caymus Vineyard they would put into Liberty School but as, you know, Camus started becoming more iconic of a brand. That was, there wasn't much fruit, so that's where we met. And so the Liberty School was not made there for a while, but then we came back. So we became kind of a friend, and then we started taking trips together, and then we kind of came to a conclusion that we should take over the brand, and bring it to Paso because we were already growing it,

and we were making it in Paso, and we were bottled in Paso. And at that same time, Chuck was really becoming, you know, what he is today, the iconic, you know, Cabernet of Napa Valley. And I was getting more involved in the wine. So I moved in Napa, started working for Chuck and, you know, kind of just learning everything. He was, you know, super gracious and, you know, would draw me off in the, you know, in this behind the scenes

and the, you know, business building, and then it would be go to the marketing, and then I would hang out in the tasting room, and then he'd send me to a vineyard, and so I kind of got to see a lot of it, you know, the kind of scenes. You know, during that time, we had built a little tasting room down here

and a bed and breakfast, and we hadn't really jumped completely off in the wine. We were having other people make it for us, and it was, you know, back then it was pretty, you know, pretty funny. It was called Hope Farms Winery, had a cattle brand on the label. It was nice.

Just really signifies the luxury of red wine, the old cow branding. Exactly. So we were not sophisticated at that time. And we weren't making sophisticated wines that point. We were just making wines. I mean, we had, you know, several winemakers around here that would, you know, make us some muscat canale and make us some ways imbedo, make us some Merlot. And, you know, we really just were, it was pretty,

new novel thing. We were, you know, we were selling Cameron and Chaukman's up us and whoever was driving and going to see Hurst Castle would pass us and there wasn't any winery so they'd stop and so during that we the wine thing we started talking about. My uncle was really trying to push the family into the wine business and my dad was kind of, you know, hesitant to really jump off with that because we had a good thing going with farmers and that's what we did.

So meanwhile while I'm working for them we want to on a trip together of my dad, Chuck Wagner, Chuck Wagner's general manager, Paul, and my uncle Paul. And we were in Mexico, Fesiton, and we were talking, and he says, we started to say, why don't we take over to Liberty School and give it a sense of place and see what we can do with it? We wanted to start another brand, which turned into Vitriana in 95.

So we set it all up and we were prepared to go, and that was in 95, and got it all together. And in 96, my uncle, which was really spirited, who I looked up to a lot, spirited in the wine piece of it, died. Actually, today, May 13, 1996. I'm sorry to hear that, but maybe we're celebrating him now. Yeah, we are.

He would flip a lid if he saw where today. So it was interesting because I was, not to get too I guess, but I just, I came from the cemetery just now and put flowers, like I could put flowers on there every day or every, every, you know, the year

he died, or the day he died 13th. It's amazing, you know, because it really changed our family and put us all into reflection and changed everything we've done. But I think he'd be super proud and, you know, so it's a cool, cool legacy to see. But, so anyways, that happened.

Chuck Wagner asked me and can I do this? And my, my dad asked me, can I do this? Because my dad did not want to be in the wine, wine side of it. Luckily, I was young and,

young, dumb and, you know, I'll pull a testosterone and my eye, I can do it. You know, my dad calls it, my dad calls it piss and vinegar.

Yeah. All right. So, luckily I said yes. And, you know, it was me and I hired, um, We hired a wine salesman and I went and grabbed a guy named Jesse that I owed weeds with my whole life.

You know, plastic immigrant store. It came to Mexico illegal, became legal over the years. And still with us today. I saw him this morning. It was a long time ago. But he's a broad-hand man. I said, you're going to learn to make wine. I'm going to quit out of weeds.

Come on, let's go. And the three of us went out of it. And now here we are today. We're in every state in about nine, 10 countries. And just we've got five, five brands. I don't know, man. I don't know where time went, but we just keep driving and striving and having fun. I love it.

So are we at pretty much, is this year 25 then? I'm hearing if I'm adding the numbers upright, Trayana launching in 95. Is that safe? Triana was 96, the first finish. So 19 or 20. 24 years as your own label. You know, I guess Liberty School was always kind of your label in a way, but, you know,

officially with taking it back. Did you guys take it back in that same time period? It was a few years before that? We started the conversation in 95 because we were actually making the wine in past roles at the time back then because they didn't have space up there. So it was natural. We were making the wine down here. and so on and so forth.

So it was really 96, 95, 96 is when we closed the deal, put it all together, and took it, took it down here and gave it its new roots, because the brand was actually started in 75 by Charlie Wagner, Chuck Wagner's father. So it's got quite the legacy, actually. It's crazy, you know, I told you kind of pre-episode that I had known, I think, you know, in starting to follow you guys, was some connection to Chuck Wagner, but I did not know the Liberty School connection exactly.

So that's fascinating. And, you know, even non-wine drinkers, I think knows the Camus and the Chuck Wagner's name. I mean, I'd love to, I mean, any insights or perspective there, I mean, one of the best known cap, probably the best, one of the top three or four best known caberdays in the world now, I would venture to say. What, and obviously, learning from him. And I taste it now in your wines a little bit, some of the pedigree there. I definitely want to talk about that a bit too. But is there any insights into, you know,

someone that's, you know, a casual wine drinker, you've heard of Camus, any good Chuck Wagner stories or insights that would be, you know, like something that would be unusual or you wouldn't know or wouldn't expect coming from, you know, again, kind of a champion of Cabernet. I think probably the biggest thing that, you know, Chuck taught me, you know, he never taught me how to make wine. And he, and neither one of us are classically trained in winemaking, which I think is a plus. Yeah. And my head in winemaker was a welder when he started it for me, and he runs all my wine now. So, I mean, we're definitely come from the old school, old farming background.

And I think the biggest thing with Chuck and similar to me is we're both dreamers. And if there was any one thing that Chuck influenced or taught me was I would ask him questions when I was younger like, hey, what do you think about this? And you go, I don't know, try it. I don't know, try it. And I would be like that concept, I think if it was a takeaway with Chuck is that he's an absolute, he's a dreamer. And I've always been that way myself.

So we've always connected because we're very, our brains are constantly moving. I think we're both, you know, super 80-HD. And I know I am, but I know well enough. I think his mind works that way too. We're very, very driven, and we're always thinking about what we can do next. What we're about this, about that. And if you're a classically trained white maker,

there's anything wrong with, I think it's wonderful. But you don't, you have, it's like a rule of, right you're giving this book like and and it might be you know in your industry too right it's like yeah everybody want to fun this is what you do well if you don't follow those rules i mean typically that are the ones that are on top or the ones that that steer out of that late you know i mean you can't you can't live in these things and we've messed up wine before i mean but so what you know we've learned some things and some prior to everything over the years that you know i mean people looked at me like i was absolutely insane i mean that work for me and they're like you can't do that i'm like yeah i can't

why not? I mean, you're kind of radical shit. I mean, so, but, well, owning an agency

name radical, this is all relating really well. This is why, this is why we're kindred spirits. I think we started following each other here. I'm feeling the parallel now. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that's, but that would be my biggest thing as far as Chuck. He's a, he's a, he's a,

he's a passionate, extremely hardworking man that, that always is dreaming and pushing him, but always pushing, pushing, pushing. And I think that's what makes greatness, right? I mean, you know, like I said, he didn't show me how to make wines. I mean, we've talked about wines and, and I appreciate the compliment about, you know,

our wines who have similarities. And, you know, it's funny because we've been making wine for so long. It's, you know, what do they say? A blind squirrel, finds it, finds it not every once in a while or whatever it is. It's like, you know, I think we've, we've, we've been extremely under the radar and that's just the way we roll. We don't, we're never beating a drum very loud. We just do what we do. And, you know, if you talk to people in the industry, they know who I am. I'm super aggressive. I've been very aggressive my whole life with them. I've always pushed distributors in different respects than most of them do. And, you know, being that I was so young when I started, it was interesting.

I had to lie about my age when I didn't begin, because I was only 22 and all this happened, because I wasn't supposed to be the head of this wine company at that age, my uncle was. And so I was kind of just dropped in at a really young age. I mean, we, like, I'd lie about my age. And a lot of my stuff was on phones back in the day. Like, I was very aggressive and I knew what I wanted,

and I knew where I wanted to go. And we made wines that were, you know, good, But we never, you know, it wasn't until, you know, I think if you're in an industry or drink any of these wines, a lot of people know these wines, but probably don't associate me, right? And I've ever been to private. It's like, I need the glory. Yeah. Because actually, I didn't even want to name that brand, Austin Hope. And it started back in 2000 when I, when I, my, we make a run line.

So we make a shrug or nothavendra, those type of grapes from our state venue where we're out right now. and it was actually Chuck Wagner that pushed me to use that name back in 2000 he was looking at it and I've got a drawer full of labels and names I mean from always creating things all the time and he's like I think you should do use he's Austin Hope I'm like I don't want to use Austin Hope man that's not that just sounds like you're egotistical great name I am like the most giving biggest heart guy in the world and I just felt uncomfortable. I thought weird and thought about it for a while.

And he kept pushing on him. He's like, can he use that name? It's a good name. He's like, it sounds good. It's authentic. It's real. It's you. And I'm like, I don't know.

So I finally did it on the wrong ones. That was, you know, I said, okay, so I did it. And, you know, over the, what, 10, 20 years you get comfortable with it. And now it's just a brand, right? Now it's like, it's odd. It's like, yeah, we're going to talk about Austin Hope. And it's like, I am, Austin. This is weird.

Yeah. I get it. I get it all. And I'm glad Chuck pushed you to it because let me tell you, as I've been branding some of the largest companies in the world, my entire career, it is a beautiful name for a wine. And I got attached to it. Like I literally, the first time I had it, it was purely the name. It's like Austin Hook Cabernet. That sounds like a badass Cabernet. And I'm going to digress for a second. The relationship of the Caymus comment to this, coming from someone that considers themselves, I have a ton of wine, I have 500 bottles in our house. But I'm not a connoisseur. You know what I like about you and Camus? It tastes damn good. So that's the connection. Now, whether or not there's a profile or this, that, and other, I know a rich, delicious wine and there's the connection. But back to the brand, yes, very, I'm glad Chuck told you that because it's a perfect name. So when we released the Austin Hope account,

it'd been in making for several years because actually we went through kind of a struggle. We had some, I made some four choices on management and kind of took my half the ball because we were doing really well. Then I jumped off and built a distillery in Kentucky, and so I wasn't paying attention to what was happening. and we kind of went south really fast. And I was like all of a sudden I surfaced and the money was all messed up and sales were going down.

And discounting was happening. So I had to kind of cut ties with that whole scene and clean up and rebuild the company and get it back to profitable. It was a pretty big life lesson for me that I'll never forget. And I guarantee you it won't happen again. but um so when we did that if uh when we i mean you know we really what i the the the root of this brand is is is to your point what you said rich um good drinking wine right i mean you've you've got you know critics all over the world are going to tell you this tell you that and then you've got you know these connoisseurs which i personally i'm not a connoisseur either i know what i

like and what I don't like. Yep. And that's one of the biggest things is that anybody that works for me in sales is if they have any slight pretentiousness that they're not, they're not working with us. Because to me, it's a, I tell them all the time, I say, do you miss it buy wine? Make it approachable, make it easy for people. Because it's already an intimidating thing, right? I mean, you're like, uh, because, you know, I mean, I, like, you know, I mean,

pick a business. I couldn't just jump in there and start telling you what I like and don't like and and now it should work. And then wine's like that, right? Plus it's, for years, it had this aristocratic kind of feel to it. And it was just, you know, you didn't want to be embarrassed. Nobody wants to be embarrassed. That's the bottom line, right?

So you go, you know, you're out with your lady and like, ooh. Merlot. Oh, it's not Merlot. It's Merlot. Oh, ho. Oh, shit. Yes. Trying to produce some of those rhone varietals, too.

Good grief. You kidding? Yeah, right. Rehaughner. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. And that's the thing.

So we've, we're super really aggressive on education, demystifying. You know, my dad had a, there was a guy in the back in the day, he used to sell a grapes tubes. And he was one of the guys actually, it was really helped with the white Zimpedil movement from Sutter Home. He worked for him. We sold white Zimidil to him back in the early 80s. And he said, he says, boys, let's not make this too complicated.

It is not the holy grail. It's a beverage that accompanies food. And it goes up today. It's like it's so true. I love that. So what was the first year of Austin Hope Cab? What was your launch year? So 2015 was the first vintage.

And a big whopping score from the wine enthusiasts didn't hurt. 97. Was it a blessing and a curse? Let's just go down that path. So first year's 2015. 97 for mine enthusiasts wonderful or terrible or more what it's got to be more wonderful I'm sure but let's talk about that of it well it that the brand was uh it has been in my head and have been planning on something like this for seven years prior to that so I went and found we've been

studying soils and really was wanting to create you know we always shoot for the highest goal he said we want to, you know, and my team didn't even know about this yet. So this was me still working behind the scenes, not telling even my winemaking team what we were doing. So we just, we went and found new vineyards because I know where the best sites for, uh, best soils are for Cabernet in this area, because I've studied in my whole life and because of technology and analytics and being able to test soils and grapes and wine for tannins and all these things that you can go down around forever. This was been in my head. But I want to create this, you know, the standard for luxury.

Cabernet, Castro's Cabernet. And I want to be able to create it that is drinks well. Because one of the things I don't like about Cabernet is that they know a lot of people have to figure out to do the tannins. Tannins can be so harsh and so aggressive and have a bite, you know, and it's like Scotch, right? So a lot of people don't like scotch, but they'll say they do because they think it's cool. and it's like, you know, you get that really hard wood in. Oh, yeah.

And I still, I still believe that half of people who drink scotch really don't enjoy it, but they feel like they're like, yeah, yeah, it feels so good. Drives my mouth out so good. I'm like, how's that good? That's not good. Anyways, again, it gets to your point. We really practiced and then I kept making the wine, and we figured out how to make tannins to become,

suffle and soft, but analytically still very high. So it would have the age potential, it had the weight and the density that tannins create, but not have that drying, hard feeling. So we developed us basically, I mean, and through a couple different proprietary things that we do, and then just really finding the right soils and using the right barrels and using it, like there's so much because they do it. But anyways, so just prior to release, this line, you know, and again, go back, I'm kind of reshaping the company. We basically took the

company, dumped it out, cleaned house, had a whole new team, new finance team, new everything. And I went to my distributors and met with all the presidents of one big organization because they have a big convention every year to pin them down because they're all there from every state. It's like purgatory for them. But anyways, we go in there and I had dinner with them and I said, okay, guys, what we're doing. I'm going to make this cavernay. It's going to be 50 bucks. It's, you know, we're going to make a fair amount of it.

And we're going to grow it. And this is going to be the standard of luxury cabernet for Castro. I believe in it. This is what's going to happen. And one of the presidents, I wouldn't remain nameless. I don't piss him off anymore. I've already teased it for now. He says, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

That's a lot of wine. And, you know, that's a lot of money from this region. And, you know, we'd be. support you but you know don't go index in my state off your goals and I'm like I said I am going to index off of your state and he goes he says he says well you're going to have to get a 97 or something to pull this shit off oh my god and I told my side I will get a 97 so I don't know if it's a self-professed or whatever they call that you know you willed it to happen I did but to your points to your question. It was it was alarming, quite honestly, you know, because we put so much

time, money, love, dedication, and creating this, and a ton of money in this because, and we went around our distributors. It was really interesting, but I remember I was just right off the road right here when I got, I got a text, and I was like, holy shit. And then it was like, I pulled over. I mean, I literally pulled over. I was like, are you serious right now? I'm like, I don't think that wine enthusiasts has ever given anybody a score that high from this region. And it turns out of him, it was the highest rated wine enthusiast publication.

And there were 30 years of publication that I've given a score. But why not? I'm like, you know, and I'm not a score guy per se, but it is a validation that's real, right? I mean, it's from a, you know, a very seasoned, you know, wine critic that it tastes thousands and thousands of wine a year. So I mean for them to say that, it was just like, wow, this is crazy. And then, but it was interesting at that point, it was really, it definitely helped light a torch to a couple different things. One was, prior to this, so we did a very aggressive promotion on the wine.

So on-premise is what they call restaurants and off-premise would be retail chains, to see you got the jargon. But so we were very, very, focused on on premise and true ways to build wine brands is on premise because a lot of times you'll see brands that blow up it's not that that's just being forced in there right it's uh they're really big companies and if they go to a distributor and they say this is what's happening they put all this marketing dollars to it they they you know incentivize all the sales people and next thing you know like a brand like josh it's on it's everywhere right you can't walk into somewhere not see a brand name josh so that's forcing something into the marketplace um some

Sometimes they last and sometimes they don't, but they've got to hit the right flavor profiles, et cetera. The traditional ways that I've grown up doing it is you put it in the restaurant. You need restaurants to pour it by the glass. And then the consumers will tell you. And that's what was happening with this brand. We put, you know, it's an expensive bottle of wine, but what we did is we put incentives in place to where restaurants could buy it at a reduced price to be able to afford to pour it by that glass. so next thing you know consumers are like and they just loved it we hit the flavor football so that was the key right

we did what we intended to do you know to create a a cabernade that everybody could enjoy and it was a reasonable price right because we did blind tastings and everything we do we always we do blind tastings where we taste it against harland we taste it against screaming eagle all blind before we even bottled this wine like do we fit in these frames are we as good or better than a $50 bottle of wine from Napa to a $1,200 bottle of wine from Napa. And we thought we did. And obviously we did.

So then the score hit. And then it was like all of a sudden the distributors were like, yeah, man, we're on this. We're kicking ass. I'm like, dude, come on. I realize five months. Yeah, you're like, holy cow, I wouldn't call it a bluff. You knew you had something great, I mean, but called your shot. there. It's kind of like aiming to, what was the famous baseball player. I don't know.

Hey, Ruth, the left field or whatever. Yeah, I was, it was, it was special, right? I mean, and then we followed it up. And then I just went, I just kept going, you know, and now it's like, it's to a point where, you know, but then it just kept, you know, I kept going for shit, you know the history, right? I mean, oh, yeah. You've got, you've followed it up with 95 plus scores since, you know, which is pretty unheard of. It wasn't a one-hit wonder. You know, I do, I have a great, I have a question. Another, you know, I've been drinking for so long, but only know so much. How do you keep, I know it's probably comes from the same, you know, fields and, you know, and all those things.

How do you keep the profile so consistent? There's definitely nuances. I mean, I have all of these at home from 15 to, I don't have any of the 18 yet. But how do you maintain, I'm sure there's processes, but that consistency. see a flavor. That's the key, right? That's what everybody's trying to figure out, right? Because our competitors were, I mean, we've already found out that they've been testing our wines and because we've got, you know, we're pretty connected. So we hear through the great buying because we work with laboratories and we know people to work at different wineries and people are trying to figure out

our formula and, you know, and it's not a formula. And that was when, you know, you go back that seven years, right? That was, that was why it took so long because not only is, I think, is it important that you can be consistent, but be able to grow if the market dictates growing, then you need to be able to, can I scale this and continue to make the same quality, quality wine. So, I mean, you know, we've, and also this goes back, you know, 20 plus years. We've been figuring out how to, how to work with barrels, what barrel profiles. We've, what yeast do we use? We've got our own. cultures of use. Like we've really been playing with this for a while. And you know, like around

like Liberty School, right? I mean, it's a great bottle of wine and it's always consistent. It's I mean, and we're really gotten very good at that. So when we step it up to go into this, you know, the higher end Cabernet game, it was super important. And it's, and it's not easy, believe you. I just came from the whine earlier tasting wines. And that's what we do. We open a bottle. And so now we've, it's not a formula, but in a sense it is a formula because we deal with, you know, nature, but we know the soils. We know how to manage tannons, like nobody's business, and we know what oak works. Because oak is something that is definitely influenced in the wine.

But I would say we're, I would say we're very good at managing oak. Because oak can get away from you very quick. Yeah. But to get integration with oak flavor, get the, get the good oak flavors and not the raw hard ones. That's the hard thing. So I think, you know, we feel good. We've been able to grow every year.

You know, we did a 15 guy great score, 16 followed up with a great score. Then 17, we were number 10 wine of the world for win enthusiasts, which was crazy because that's, you know, that one blew me away even more because it was, you know, they taste 24,000 wines. That's across varietals, right? I mean, number 10 in the world. Yeah. Yeah. So the editors and critics, yeah, they taste 24,000 wines a year. And then they throw in what they think their best wine,

the best hundred wines they tasted that year. And then they all go around around. That was the text that blew my mind. That was like, I mean, the 97 already, you know, totally screwed me in my mind. I know it will only be third place because the 95 and the 20, and the number 10, those are probably one and two. but number three can be most popular at the Alford family parties. So, you know, if we could get that on the website,

you can bring you some more business. So number one in the world within the Alford residence when we have parties. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I know you'll cherish that one. But in all seriousness, though, it's congratulations on all of that. And it's got to, you know, you put your heart and soul, you put your name on it. and to have all that hard work kind of, you know, justified or, you know, again, not even being

a score person, which I feel that from you and I already see that from you, but it still has to feel good and, and, you know, even to your team. I mean, you know, like sometimes those things, you know, managing teams and stuff like that, you know, means it's kind of pat on the back for them of like, you know, justification and things like that, right? I agree. I think it, you know, I think it, you know, it's like I did horrible in school, right? I got to pulled out of school at one point. And, you know, the grades were just there, right?

So you take them for good or bad or whatever, but it didn't mean much to me. But to validate, you know, I mean, this is a, you know, worldwide publication that validate something like that on multiple things, you know, years in a row. And, I mean, yeah, our team walked proud. I mean, and it's interesting because, you know,

I've had some of the best publicists in the world. I've done marketing, we've done advertising, we've done, you name it. And I'm always five years ahead of where we should be. And I could that be a whole of the podcast and things that I tell you we've done. It's just crazy. It blows your mind. That was like in-house marketing lady yesterday. She's like, I told her what I was doing with this new brand.

And she's like, yep, you're five years ahead again. And I'm like, shit. But it's a, it's total validation, right? it makes people feel good that you know in a team and you know they're walking prouder i mean you can see it but what's interesting to me is like you know we've been around for so damn long and we've been successful but but it's like it's a it's almost like we're a new winery which it's kind of it's kind of it's uncanny it's funny and and and i've talked to people about it and it's like like and we've helped you know bring more uh notice to pass so which is

that makes me the happiest because honestly that they can't that's the key that you'll take away as you get to know me is that I'm a I'm a consummate you know marketer of passive I talk passo first in a second because we're this it can't just be one person that's great and passive we all have to be great we all have to get people who come here you know and so I do feel that we've we've we've helped get a lot of attention I mean just in Southern California alone it's insane like I joke with people when they come up. I'm like, where the hell you guys been, dude?

Where you been? Seriously, you're three and a half hours away. You've never heard of us. And now all of a sudden, we can't keep you out of our tasting room. You want a great cat with this Cabernetale. And they realized that, like, oh, I love these other wine too. And I'm like, dude, where are you been? Yeah, exactly. So how is that?

You know, and I do, like, we're going to have to have some follow-up. I think we're going to, I'm going to create a wine segment with Austin Hope, if he's down for it as part of our. like maybe bi-monthly if we can keep you interested, because I think we can dive deep in a lot of these areas. But I am fascinated by the whole Napa, Paso. I'm sure you guys felt like, you know, the red-headed stepchild that you weren't, by the way.

But, you know, I'm sure that's been both rewarding. And I am curious, you know, if that is kind of how it felt. You know, I mean, we used to joke, I mean, years ago, we'd always say we're the bastard child of Napa. You know, they come down by grapes from us and they take it up there and blend it into their, you know, Central Coast or California Appalated or some of the Napa wines because you can blend in, you know, a certain percentage from other regions in wine, not even, and consumers wouldn't even know. And by law. Now, yeah, we were always a bastard child.

And then it was this like, you know, again, we'll just fly right over us. and this. NAPA. It was all about NAPA. All of a sudden, it's like, it's changed. Like in the last,

you know, four years, three years, really, I mean, it's, to see all the people coming here and discovering it,

it makes me happy, right? Because, you know, we are a world-class growing region, right? And there's no question about it, my mind that,

that we can compete in those people who are competing. We can compete on a world stage. And so our, our people will ask if, you know, like, what's our goal? And I say,

global domination. that's it. It's all right, that's what we want. We want to drink past Robles' wines. And we're so much diversity here, what's cool, because, and I think what's bringing more people here, right, they get here, maybe they came because they want, they heard about Osnope Cabran.

They love Osnop Cabernan. So we get them here, then we show them all these other varieties that we do and all these other things, and we send them to our neighbors. The diversity in our region is ridiculous, right? I mean, we've got 11 sub-AVAs that we've developed. But it's still passive. But we can, I mean, I've got a neighbor that grows P&R that, by blindfold, you think, came from Burguer. Because it's a very cool region where he's growing it.

Whereas if you go 10 miles east, I mean, if you grew P&R out there, it's going to taste like shit. Yeah. We can grow Cirov where I live in the Templeton Gap district, which is the coolest sub-region in Passum. that tastes like Northern Rome, more leather, more blueberry, more structure, meat game kind of qualities. I can go 15 miles east of here, and I can grow Sarad there because it's the warmest region in the area that will taste like Shiraz, bubble gum, fruit, right? So it's just, it's an amazing region that I think we're just scratching the service on what

we can do. And it's exciting, though. I will say that Trayana cab's a damn good bottle of wine too. You know, like, I should tell you this, but I'm honest to the fault when people get on my ass about all the time. So Triana came about as, that was my practice wine for Austin Hope. So it's, that's what I, that's why I started that brand. So I because of bed, if you go back for rice. said I've got to be able to do consistency and be able to scale if you're going to make a real

brand that's, you know, going to be a legacy brand. And so we asked how that brand started. And I made it a dedication to the three men that were, you know, super influential in my life, my father, my uncle, Chuck Wagner. And so that wine, we kept doing it, doing it, doing it. And then once I felt, okay, we got it, now we're just going to turn it up a little bit with the Austin Hope. That's how that brand started.

So you're absolutely right. That's a kick-ass ball in line for the price. And that's the other thing we didn't talk about is pricing because we're, you know, one of the big things for us is, is I always want to over-deliver. And, you know, one of our like models or ethos, if you will, is to, you know, deliver an honest product for a good price. And, you know, too often in this industry, mainly, you know, and not just in the north, but here as well, people will just.

put a number on it. And I'm like, I don't, like, I'd never ask you, like, where do you come up with the inside dollar for that? I don't know. I mean, it's like, we run our company like a business. I mean, it's, it's a real business. We, we, we analytically look at things. This is what it costs. Great. Just what it costs in barrels. This is what it costs to people. And then we put a good margin on it. And that's, that's what we sell it for. We don't just double it because we feel like doubling it. It's like, but, you know, it do mean the marketing, spine and the man, all of stuff that goes along with it is, is interesting. but if you, I really do believe if you go through all of our brands,

90% of the time everybody will feel like they got more value or more flavor, more value than for the price. Which that's, you know, that's the end result. Or make this hobby. So we're, you know, a couple more things and we'll save some for the next round. But where's the, where's this all headed? You know, both, what's your prognostications for both the, industry. I mean, you know, I know you're someone that kind of pushes against the grain a bit,

maybe with the industry and with the Hope family wineries. I mean, what, any kind of tidbits on where you see things going or changing holistically and, and then, you know, where you see the winery going? Other than domination. Yeah, it's a, I was in Europe, but it's not that long ago. I mean, we're, we're pushing into the other markets and, you know, we're already in some of the Asian markets. We're pushing hard. Like, I mean, I really want, you know, when I say global domination, I mean it that as in passive.

Like, I want the world to know Paso. Yeah. I know the world knows, knows Napa Valley. Great. But I want her to know Paso. I mean, just as I do, you know, they know Bordeaux or Rhone or whatever. So that's my goal mentally. You know, as far as where I think the world's going.

And I think that, you know, contrary to to. the media that, you know, always just want to spin things into a negative light. I don't, I don't, I can't, that's a whole other podcast. I could go out about it. I think that, I think wine is, is finally becoming a culture. Whereas, I don't know about you. I don't know how old you are, but when I grew up, wine was on our, on our table every night. But at our house, wine is on our table every day.

So now my daughters, I can pretty much assure you that that new, her generation, now has seen that, right? So, yeah, I think you've created where my goal and my thought is, I think it will be like, I think it's only going to grow. I do think that you're going to see, you're going to see lower quality wines. I think they're going to slowly really have to bring their game up because what's happening is the consumers getting educated, right? And that's never happened before.

you know i mean you think about like the awesome of cabernet that we've produced that we've hit hit something that consumers enjoy and this is what i enjoy like we talked about i don't want to try in cavernate it's like it's just like yeah you you're told this is good like okay but i don't like it and i think that you know through not only through internet through social media, our society talks more than has ever talked before, whether it's, whatever platform it is, face-to-face, phone, texting, like, communication and information is flowing so freely that, and you can learn about a wine so quickly, you can learn about a region so quickly that our consumers are becoming more educated. And so I think the consumers are going to continue

to demand higher quality products. So, I I don't think that, you know, the average wines are going to continue to go. I think that everybody's got a step of the game because our consumers, I think, are becoming more educated. And, you know, it's going to take a generation. It always does. You know, I mean, it's like the next generations. And all this talk about the millennials and stuff.

I mean, that's just driving me bonkers. I'm so sick of here. You know, we can't market to them. We can't do this. We can't do that. I mean, you know what? You'll find their way. I think people are, I think, why that particular audience is, is, is, you know,

not being not or people say they can't market them because everybody's trying to do and so they're they're pushing back because they're like dude leave me alone like and and we don't we don't we don't do that we just saw our story and like we mean this is who we are you like our wines you like our wines if we don't okay move on but i think that you know they'll go just like us and i wasn't drinking wine at 16 or 20 years old i mean i wasn't i was drinking booze beer yeah and that's just that's this life man so i don't think anything's changed. I think it's a and we're in everything's always cyclical right. It just keeps coming around. I keep looking back at things that keep changing and it's, it's interesting. So I think I think you're going to see wine

consumption can continue to rise, but I do think you're going to see wine quality continue to rise because that's what the consumers are going to dictate. Yep, I agree. And I think the, uh, the low, the low guy on the totem pole has you, you, you to blame. personally for making a killer wine at a great value. Well, cool, man. I really, you know, I think we could go on for two hours. I'm feeling this five that, you know, we could just keep on, keeping on.

But I'm going to hold you to maybe getting back together for another episode here. And how's the impact? You know, I've been kind of staying off the whole pandemic discussion for the most part with most of the guests. But has that any impact or anything of note? I mean, you guys are probably rocking. and it might be increasing sales of people at home. But have you guys seen?

I know it's probably hurt your tasting room a bit, but you guys just kind of ready to. We're, you know, it's interesting because we're definitely off. I think, you know, this is what may will be a blood bath for us. April was was okay. The first three months were obviously great. We did good. So, you know, going back to say, again, we built our build brands on premise, on restaurants.

So nationally, on all of our brands put together, we were like 56, 58% restaurants. So that's a big impact on us, right? So over half our business. So we had to quickly shift to get to retail and to get retail authorization. It's just like any other business, right? I mean, I can't go into Target right now and start talking about selling them a summer line right now. They're going to be like, okay, well, thanks for pitching it now. So we'll look at it maybe next summer.

Supermarkets are the same way. So we're pitching. We've already pitched for two months ago for fall for supermarkets, just again, in the sets. So we couldn't, so we had to shift in different manners. And, you know, we're fine. But I think we're going to be off probably by the end of the day. We'll probably be off 10%. Yeah.

because our team has been able to push into independent retailers where we could make we could force our way in. But we've been, I think what we've also done has been super progressive. I think we were early on in the progressive with the Zoom stuff. I mean, I've done, you know, to Zoom things for, I'm doing one Friday for O.C. We've done them for, we've done some things with Mortons. we've done with steakhouses across the country and just trying to be interactive. We do Zoom tastings by appointment with one of our wine advisors or our tasting room. But, you know, the retail part of business that we did have has increased,

which is, I think, going to help our business. I mean, stabilize the bosses in the restaurant. But definitely it's, you know, that's again the media, right? It's like, everybody's drinking more and more and more. I'm like, yeah, they're drinking more, but I don't think people realize how, how much wine is consumed in restaurants. It's insane. I mean, it's a big hit, right?

But our tasting room, we were in an early group that, from my point of view, we started going straight to our audience. Like, I went through depression and then kind of jumped woke up, and I'm like, dude, what are we going to do? Because we didn't furlough one employee, which was, you know, pretty scary for us. And we didn't take any of the PPP stuff. So we just got to roll the dice. You know, we've got 60 people that work for us.

So it was spooky, but I went to get our tasting room and said, okay, let's get smart. Let's do stuff. My wife and I started thinking. So we started to start communicating with our audience. And, you know, we already do social. I mean, you know, that's fine. I mean, we've got our hook line lines that we do that my wife and another person run. And then my Instagram is just, you know, random and all over the place.

So we'll be able to be on that. And then we started creating cookie video. because I cook a lot. So I started making cooking videos and then I started, I showed other purveyors like that are wine club members and used a beef from one of them cooked to tenderline and then I cook squab from one of my buddies that's got a big squab co-op in the valley. And I just started talking and just being real, you know, like we are and found that. And my wife had to make a playlist and put it into this and we offered, you know, painting

shipping and our direct business is actually is doing great it's doing fine it's really weird i mean we don't have anybody in our tasting room and it's it's a bummer and it's sad because we have such a cool tasting room it's outdoor i mean it's super chill but we're doing to and we started we were one of the first to start doing a curbside pickup we started home delivery right out of the get-go as soon as it's happened we just we immediately switched and now people are starting to do it more but I mean, Christ, last Saturday there was, there was a line for curbside pickup. I came down and actually poured some people some taste that they know, like, so we, you know, adapt, no recount, right?

I love it. Well, you know, I'm trying to ignore the media personally. I think there's a lot of fear spreading going on, but we'll save politics for, you know, another time. You pretty much summed it up where I'm out. I think it's, you know, I think there's just, the fear is what pissing me out. I stopped watching the news a month ago. It's, uh, it's, it's, you know, there's no answers.

There's no real things. And it's, and it's a shame to see how, see people in such fear. That's my biggest, biggest thing. It's like, come on, man. I mean, you know, we're, we're a herd society. We've always been and we've got to protect the week, but we've got to move all their lives. I mean, you're, you're, you're hurting people in different ways, you know, I mean.

Yeah. And they go on for days. I told my wife at the second day of the quasi-lockdown that the biggest point is, is no one going, you can't create a bigger problem than you're trying to solve. I think that's the bottom line, isn't it? Like, you know, there's no easy answers here, but you can't create a bigger hole than the one you're trying to get out of. So, anyway, I digress. Hey, man, it's been awesome.

You know, huge fanboy over here on the wines, of course, but have from afar noticed, you know, a little bit of the rebel attitude and the kind of approach. And it comes through in a delicious wine, but also, you know, a great guy. And I really appreciate it. And I know our listeners are going to be thrilled to kind of hear a little bit of that backstory.

The Chuck Wagner stuff's fascinating. And, you know, just look forward to kind of grow in our friendship and talking down the line. I love it, man. Thank you so much for getting out. It's a moderate and flattered that you did. It's super cool. Like I said, I like what you're doing. And thank you for having me, man.

This is cool. Sweet. Well, this is Ryan Alford for the Radical Company podcast. You can follow along at Radical.company or find us on Instagram at Radical underscore results. We'll see you next time. To learn more about Radical, visit Radical.company on the web or follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alfern. Thanks for listening to the Radical Marketing Podcast.