Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice - Cassie Petrey Reveals Secrets on The Music Industry, Fifth Harmony and The Backstreet Boys

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

Welcome to a captivating episode where we explore the dynamic intersection of music and social media, unraveling the transformative impact of digital platforms on the music industry. Join us in conversation with Cassie Petrey, a seasoned professional in artist management and social media strategy. In this enlightening discussion, Cassie shares invaluable insights into the democratization of the music landscape, the evolving role of artists in the digital age, and the significance of adapting to new media formats. From personal branding to the longevity of songs, this episode delves into the multifaceted realm where artistry and technology converge, offering a comprehensive understanding of the contemporary music industry. Tune in for an engaging exploration of how social media has become a powerful force shaping the future of music. Access and Opportunity in the Music Industry: Social media has democratized the music industry, providing artists worldwide with increased access and opportunities for success. (03:15)  Personal Branding and Control: Artists can build a personal brand beyond their music, gaining more control over their image and content distribution through social media. (08:45)  Evolution of Music and Art: Music evolves with media changes, shifting from TV to phones. Artists become their media networks, leveraging attention from their music. (12:30)  Rise of Short-form Content and TikTok: TikTok's short-form content is the new music video, emphasizing artists' need to adapt for exposure. (16:50)  Role of Content Development: Artists should focus on music-centric content on platforms like Instagram Reels and TikTok, where performances and playing instruments have gained popularity. (20:08)  Artists as Business People: Successful independent artists excel not only in their musical talents but also as savvy business individuals, according to Cassie. (23:35)  Longevity of Songs and Albums: Streaming challenges traditional song lifespans; Taylor Swift's album re-releases prove enduring cultural relevance. (28:26)  Chart Dynamics and Multiple Songs: Streaming enables multiple songs from an artist's album to chart at once, encouraging frequent releases, collaborations, and diverse templates. (33:11)  Monetization Beyond Streaming: Cassie highlights the role of artist managers in diverse monetization avenues beyond streaming, encompassing concerts, merchandise, and brand deals. (27:00)  Anecdote with Backstreet Boys:Cassie shares a humorous story about her teenage crush on Backstreet Boys while dining with AJ. The band acknowledges the importance of social media for connecting with their fans.  (28:54)  Taylor Swift's Influence: Taylor Swift is lauded for her brilliance as an artist and businesswoman. The release of Taylor's versions and her Spotify streaming success highlights the enduring power of her music. (31:20) Know more about Cassie Petrey by following her on Instagram @cassiepetrey. More information about her here https://www.convinceandconvert.com/podcasts/episodes/how-cassie-petrey-turns-rockstars-into-social-pros/.  If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, join Ryan’s newsletter https://ryanalford.com/newsletter/ to get Ferrari level advice daily for FREE.  Learn how to build a 7 figure business from your personal brand by signing up for a FREE introduction to personal branding https://ryanalford.com/personalbranding.  Learn more by visiting our website at www.ryanisright.comSubscribe to our YouTube channel  www.youtube.com/@RightAboutNowwithRyanAlford. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's Ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Ziprecruiter.com slash zip. One trend that I'm really happy about on both Instagram Reels and TikTok that I'm seeing is that I feel like music-centric content is performing well. I'm seeing a lot of, and not like music videos, but people singing, people playing instruments or sharing a new song. I'm seeing that type of content really do well, whereas I would say three or four years ago it didn't. So you had to figure out how to sneak your music into content. But now you just straight ahead, music-centric content is more popular than ever on those platforms. You're listening to The Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast.

If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. We say if it's radical, we cover it. Well, when you hear names like Backstreet Boys, Brittany Spears, Paramore, I think he's pretty fucking radical. I got the CEO and co-founder of CrowdSurf, Cassie.

Petri, what's up, Cassie? Hey, I'm good. How are you doing? Hey, just rocking and rolling here in South Kakalaki, South Carolina, doing what we do. Awesome. It's good to have you. I know you're in Hawaii. Thank you for having you.

I am. Yes, I am in Hawaii right now. Nice. I guess work, play, a little bit of both. Yeah, I like to pretend like I live. You're work in the morning and enjoy the island in the afternoon. That's cool. So I know you've got a deep background in music management and marketing with crowd surf and

worded with a lot of big name artists and still making waves, pun intended. How's life treating you these days? It's been good. It's been, I don't know when this airs, but we're coming into the end of the year. And I feel like in the marketing. agency business. A lot of work slows down at the end of the year. A lot of clients go on pause. They're reevaluating how they want to spend their money. There's usually a dip. And I'm actually this year seeing the opposite. So a little more busy than usual, but feeling happy about that.

It feels really good. Yeah. I've been in the agency and marketing business for 20 years. And it does get that law in December a little bit. Because you typically do some planning like October, November, but then for whatever reason, December kind of seems to fizzle out, which I didn't hate because you catch your breath a bit, but it does. It's picking up for us as well, too, with some new business stuff. So I don't know, I don't know what that is necessarily a sign of. I don't know if everybody's like anxiously, like, where's the economy going? What's trying to get ahead of it? I don't know. So it's hard to say. Yeah, maybe. And I was also worried about the dip because of that, too. but I'm feeling good about signing new contracts.

And it's definitely unusual because I feel like in December, I'm usually having a conversation with my business partner where I'm freaking out. And she reminds me that it's normal at this time of the year. And our bank statements are trending accurately. I literally have that December conversation every year. And I'm feeling a little different about it. So I'm grateful for that. Let's set the table for everybody, Cassie.

Let's talk your background, your history and the industry. and like maybe just for the nuts and bolts of what the hell you do. Yeah, it's always fun to explain that. And I think sometimes it's hard to explain it because it changes so much. But I own a digital marketing agency and we also do some artist management now as well, fairly focused on the music business, but we have some sort of adjacent business as well and comedy with some actors and actresses and that sort of thing. And the main thing that people hire us for in the digital marketing business is to be their social media manager, for lack of better terms.

I feel like that job varies a lot from person to person and from company to company and from business entity to business entity. But we help with whatever they need help with in that world. And it drastically varies from client to client. But a lot of social media strategy, content planning, a lot of content creation now. and helping them with that side of their job, because there's just so much more to create now. So I think everyone needs as much help as they can get sometimes. And in artist management world, it's,

I feel like there's actually a lot of parallels to marketing, like digital marketing management to general artist management. You're just across more aspects and you have to spend more time on the client because you're across more aspects. But in artist management, I always say you're the center of a bike wheel and all the spokes come to you and you have to keep the wheel turning. And that's always been a long-term goal of mine is to do more work in artist management. So I'm happy that we have more projects in that space and definitely looking for one or two more of the right artists that are the right fit for us going into the new year.

But I'm excited to keep expanding that side of our business. How long have you been in the industry? about 20 years. Yeah. So we're about the same time frame. It's been a wacky world, right? Like the analog to digital. We've, we had only so many ways with which to reach customers 15 years ago, 15, 20 years ago with mass media.

And then this crazy thing with social media comes along and hits the opposite. It's like the fire hose of channels. What's that evolution been like for you? It's been incredible. I think that if you. don't like that aspect of if you don't like change and trying to figure out how to utilize new tools and be excited about some sort of wrenches being thrown in the system all the time, this is probably digital marketing and probably even the music business may not be the best

job for you. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing or a personality flaw. It's just really thinking about just because you like music doesn't mean this is the right business for you. And I see a lot of people make that mistake and get really flustered with change and having to relearn things all the time and finally mastering something on Instagram and then it completely being retooled or even sometimes the tool will go away. You really don't know what's going to happen, but I thrive on it constantly changing. And I remember when there was a lot of talk about is TikTok going to shut down or not. And listen, I don't want TikTok to shut down. I like the tool. I think there's a lot of really advantageous things about it.

But I see who it was like, but if it does shut down, there's a lot of things that could be really fun about it. And like, where do people go and how do you capitalize on that moment of people's time on their phone going to other places and figuring out how to get there before other people do and have some good viral moments that may actually, I feel like I could daydreamed about it a little bit. You've really crystallized something for me. I'm the same way.

I really like change. I don't get attached. to very many things. And I've been in the industry too, not on the music side, but just more general marketing, big brand stuff, New York. And I never really thought about that parallel

of my personality being good at adapting to change, but how the industry changes. And you send there talking, I'm like, you're exactly right. If you don't, I think the best marketers

are the best change agents. Like you're comfortable with change. You like change. If you're like me, There's a bit of ADDness in that, like jumping from one team to the next and you enjoy that challenge. But that's really interesting. Yeah, I think I would get really bored otherwise. And I think a lot of it came from, I lived with my grandparents growing up.

And my grandfather, he always had these, I don't know if they have these magazines anymore. But you get this magazine that had like all these new gadgets in it. And he loved trying them all and seeing if any of them could make his life better. And it was really fun. I really enjoyed watching. that and I think I maybe get a little bit of that like curiosity from him. That's what it is. It's the curious, the marketer's curiosity.

Like we're all like I think the true marketers are the most curious people. Yeah. And I remember and I, you get inspiration from like the weirdest things. I remember I was talking to my dad a couple days ago and he, so he owns like a small like gardening business. And he actually does a lot of his marketing on next door. Yeah. I wonder what I could take from that in music.

Like what, because next door is so, that's how he gets all its work. That is so prevalent. How do, how would an artist potentially take advantage of that? I'm not sure, but I'm curious to think about it and maybe find the right client who would be down to experiment with that. Yes. So next door, I feel like is untapped for certain things. I don't know about for music artists, but it is, but I think it's that community thing, right? There's like a trust involved.

because it's typically like zip code driven or whatever. And so everyone feels a little safer, maybe a little more trustworthy with the content that they're because it's so community driven. Yeah, it's wild too. I think people feel really comfortable posting about certain topics that maybe they wouldn't share on Instagram or Facebook. Yeah, that person driving by my house,

unite, you know, with her. There's a lot of drama about squirrels on mine, whether you should feed them or not. I have a good time reading it. So let's name drop a little bit. I did at the outset. I know you've worked with some big artists. Maybe tell me some good stories or audience.

Some of the stuff you've done with some of the bigger name artists, I know that sure that's been both pulling your hair out and fun at the same time. I love the, I love artists at all levels. And I think some of my favorite things I've done have been watching artists go from literally registering a social media. account to having a number one hit. And one of my favorite stories to talk about is I worked with Fifth Harmony from literally day one because I was a digital producer on X Factor season 2012. And that was the season they were on.

And they literally weren't a group yet at that point. So I saw them audition and met them before they became a group. And it was really cool to be a part of watching them form. to going to acquiring them as a client once they were a group and to work with them through the entirety of their career and watch an Instagram account go from and Twitter was very important in their era. Watching these accounts get registered and go from zero to millions to they have work from home has over a billion streams on Spotify.

But that's really rewarding to watch it from day one, literally. and I actually, I have one memory I have of them is when they were, this was when social media didn't have the kind of support for talent and artists in terms of like actual staff that they have now. So I remember when I had to switch Fifth Harmony, because they had two other names on the show before they became Fifth Harmony. And I had to register their Twitter handle live. and you don't want to do it so early that you reveal the name before Simon Cowell does, but you don't want to have somebody else grab the name before you do. So it's really, so I'm like watching from like the truck and like doing it 60 seconds before. I know he's announcing it.

And now you would have, I would have staff that would help me with that in terms of staff that's at Twitter slash X or meta or wherever. But then they're just, okay, we're off at five. have fun. And that was a really stressful moment for me because also you're, you're in a tent in a parking not like Wi-Fi isn't as reliable. There's a lot of variables, but I'll never forget being in like a tent switching Fifth Harmony's Twitter handle live as Simon Cowell is announcing their name being changed again.

It was a very stressful moment for me. I imagine the real, especially like, all right, how fast can this happen knowing that I could go live? Is there any delays? Because you want, because immediately. You have to grab the old name. Yeah.

You have to grab the old name so that somebody doesn't get it and capitalize on that too. It's tricky. Like, changing social media handle names is more stressful than it sounds. I promise you that. Yeah. Because you don't want to lose if they've got buildup audience and then making sure the names available. And especially as soon as Simon Cowell is about to launch it,

how many million people are going to Google it, search for it? and then look for, or look for that name on or search for it within the platform. So you're like, oh, it's got to be set up. Totally. And then we'll do the, like you're talking about a little bit, like buying, they'll go buy. Sometimes there's handles of names or companies or something. They haven't like thought of it. Like they'll go.

Some scrupulous people will go buy or just get the handle like URL, like the name for different things. We've had that happen with like companies that didn't plan ahead. Yeah. So you want to think through and make sure that you don't have that moment on social media or WW handles or wherever, where somebody else grabs your name and they squat on it forever. It's really horrible getting those back sometimes. What's the process for how both now and in the past, like artists come to you or you get in

front of or get the opportunity to become the marketing or music management for a big artist? I would say cold pitching or not even cold pitching, even pitching people. I feel like pitching unasked or unprovoked hardly ever works. I do it occasionally because I would kick myself if I see an opportunity that exists that I didn't inquire on. For example, there's this pop artist right now who has a lot of hits and is doing really well, but I noticed her tour wasn't selling well. So I know her management team. So I pitched them. I was like, hey, if you want somebody to do tour marketing specifically,

I know you're killing it on the music side, the viral side, but on Ticketmaster, you can see how tickets are doing. You can see the whole map. And I saw that this artist, tickets weren't selling as great as I thought they would based upon her success with music right now. Right. So I reached out and pitched about that. I didn't hear back. I probably won't because, again, I feel like that never works in music for some reason. So most of my projects do come to me or their referrals or they're like I would say most of my, I feel like I get a couple text every day that's, hey, do you have time to take this on?

It needs to start immediately. I feel like that's how most of my business comes in. It's never, okay, in three months, we're going to launch this. It's usually, we needed you yesterday. Can you start immediately? You don't even have to do official proposal because we don't have time to wait for it. I would say that's how a majority of my business comes in right now. The old fire a.m. ready.

Yeah, I like that, though. Like, it's less work for me to get started. I don't have to make a big PDF. They already know what they're buying. I don't have to explain it. I don't have to sell it. I like that in a lot of situations, especially if I've worked with at least one of the team members before.

The expectations are in the right place. And I don't have to do all that upfront work because a lot of times you're doing so much work up front. And if you don't get the bid, you lost time and labor over that. And it's frustrating because you spend time on something and may or may not get the project. So I like that situation. Yeah, we in our agency, I've gotten really transparent with my clients on, I'm not going to spend three days on a proposal. This is going to be very generic.

Yeah. Because you can spend your whole, you could make no money and do nothing but do proposals. If you give away all the ideas and do everything. And I had to learn that. hard way. Like you worked, I worked on a lot of big companies and big industries. And then started my own agency. Starting out, you, you start to put time. You feel a lot of thought in those things. You could just do nothing but that. And you may not get any of the business. Yeah, it's a balance because you want to put your best foot forward and give your best shot at

getting a project. But like you do have to put boundaries on it because you could literally spend, I could spend 40 hours on it myself on a proposal if I wanted to and make it amazing. But it's just not reasonable to do that. So I have three or four kind of templates I operate off of and depending upon how much the project is, what type of project. It's more corporate or indie. I adapt and create a proposal based upon that. But yeah, you could spend a really long time making a marketing planner proposed pitch and look really good.

What's been some of the music industry's changed a lot. Social media has changed that. Tech Talk. I know you can tell me the stories, but talk to us about just the changing music landscape with streaming and everything else. This is a different game, right? It is a very different game. And there's some things that are really nice about streaming.

The thing I like about streaming is that before when an artist would sell a record, they would get paid off of selling that one record. and they didn't get paid based upon how many times they played that song on that record is a consumer. And now they do. So I think that's cool. The downside is that in order to make back that $1 or whatever you would have had on a song, somebody has to play that song over a thousand times. And that's unfair too.

I like the concept of streaming in terms of somebody being rewarded financially for a long time. I like how easy it is from a lot of consumer standpoints, but the finances still have a long way to go in terms of, I think, compensating people fairly for songs that they listen to a lot. It's a tough balance right now, and I almost think that sometimes there's too much value attached to paying $10 a month. Like, you really get every song ever made for that amount of money. There has to be a little bit more push and pool, I think, on that.

But I do like the experience as a consumer, and I like artists being able to see long-term, I'll have data attached to their songs and have finances attached to that. But the finances still don't match what we are getting off of selling records and a lot of situations. So it's interesting to think about that. It's been interesting also like the opportunity for independent artists seems in some ways greater than ever because of the ability of social media to pop off. Now, they may still run into some of the financial challenges like we just talked about. But if they're smart, you know, they tie everything together.

They can monetize with their influence online and merch. But it does just seem like there's a more clear path for independent artists than there's ever been. There is. And there's a lot of opportunity. There's a lot. There's a bigger middle class of artists now. There's a lot of artists that they may not be like giant mansion and Malibu rich. but a lot of people making six figures and having a good life off of music.

That's possible for more people now. And I think that's a really cool thing. And I think that the other thing that's really great about social media and ease of distribution of music is that it is more saturated because more people have access to these tools. But everybody can at least have a shot at it. You can really try without no matter where you live, no matter who, you can. try and you can give it a shot whereas I think several decades ago you just everyone couldn't give it a shot the way that people can now at least not in the same capacity so I do think that there's something that's really nice about more people having a chance and more control over

being able to share their music and share content that there is something that's really awesome about that yes and I think and you see this like it's the personal brand, right? Like, obviously, the music is so tied to these artists that they kind of guides it for them, but they're able to bring to life their personality and a broader picture of themselves of an artist, the ones that do it right, like with what social media brings. Because again, 15, 20 years ago, it was, you got to sell albums. An independent artist can't afford to be on TV unless they're invited on television or they get in mass media some way or make local radio. Whereas now there's this distribution aspect and ability to almost have their own

once they have some attention garnering from the music itself, they become their own media network. I think the ones that are doing it well, the ones maybe they're that high six figures million dollar type bumping their head up against some real dollars. Yeah, I feel like all the people who are living in that independent artists making a good, like, middle class artist living, so to speak, is what I'm calling it. They are all really smart. They're not just good at music. They're good business people. And they know how to take what they do with their music and make social media representations of that. Because I think about when music video format came around, a lot of artists were really resistant to making, music videos. They didn't understand why they had to have a visual attached to the song. They didn't

like that. But what happens is that music evolves with like the physical media players that we have in our lives. So as the television became more popular, music had to have a version of itself that was on television or else you're not going to breach people because that's how people consume media. Now we have phones and we've had to evolve music to be something that fits in people's phones and be in the format that people are consuming general media and general entertainment. So we have to evolve art to be in those places or else people aren't going to get exposed to your music. TikTok short form vertical content is the new music video and that is how you're going to reach new people. and it's the equivalent of saying you're not 10, 20 years ago saying you won't make a music video where that was standard and that was the only way to be on MTV. So if you want to be on today's MTV, which is TikTok and the phone, you have to figure out how to make content to be on that format.

How do you, like when you're working with artists to that end, from a content perspective, what becomes your role working with either an up and coming or an existing one as far as content development? and what have you seen as some of the trends of what's working, what's not working on maybe some of these platforms? Yeah, so every artist is very different in terms of how they should use or how they feel comfortable using social media. One trend that I'm really happy about on both Instagram Reels and TikTok that I'm seeing is that I feel like music-centric content is performing. I'm seeing a lot of, and not like music videos, but people singing, people playing instruments and sharing or sharing a new song. I'm seeing that type of content really do well, whereas I would say three or four years ago it didn't.

So you had to figure out how to sneak your music into content. But now it's just straight ahead, music-centric content is more popular than ever on those platforms. So I think that's a really good thing for artists because I feel like a lot of them didn't want to get on TikTok, for example, because they're like, I don't want to dance and lip sync. And even then, I would reel it back for them and say, hey, at the core of this platform, it is a platform where you post videos. We don't have to do what other people are doing.

You literally just have to figure out what videos you want to post on that platform. I think that for a lot of artists who were resistance to that, I think that made it click for them, which is great. And I think that once you get over that like mental barrier why you should or shouldn't be on a platform and what you're going to post on it, I think it becomes a lot easier and can become fun. So that's a way that I break it down for a lot of artists who are resistant. But it's, I think it's easier than ever for artists to be a part of it because again, like music content is being consumed, which is really awesome. And I'm really happy about that. I've been waiting for it.

So it's good. There's a lot of fun stuff on there right now. Yeah, I feel like in my feed, I'm big in the music, like, just listening. And so I'm sure the algorithm has got me figured out. But it's, and I'm a country music guy, I listen a lot of everythings. But like, now it's like I'm swiping on TikTok. It's every other one, someone in their guitar or singing somewhere. So I think you're right.

I definitely see a lot more not just the music video or the whatever the portrayal of the song might have been, but just live concert things or some of these artists just doing. very organic portrayals or playing, I don't know, their back porch. Yeah. No, it's great. And then there's a lot of like singing in garage video trends, singing in car, playing music for people in car,

doing like a stripped down acoustic version of a song or sharing a new song for the first time in that format. So it's good. There's a lot of ways to share music on social media right now that are being well received. Do you guys work with artists like, Has the, all the music is pretty much streamed and the money is made there for the most part. That and do you guys get into like concert management and touring or merchandise or other ways for monetization for these artists? For sure.

I would say especially on the independent artists, whether we're, when we're their artist manager, we're definitely very involved in that because that's a big part of our job and how a lot of them make their living. But even with the artists that we're not the artist manager of, we are helping sell those things because that's how they make their income. Some artists or venues will hire us specifically for tour marketing or show marketing, figuring out how do we do that, both online and offline, because a lot of times creating a moment online or offline, for example, sending an influencer or a cool item that's themed around a concert that creates an online moment. We do some concert marketing.

We do a lot of merchandise designs and a lot of marketing that merchandise. But we're really helping market anything that is a part of their income stream. So that could be a new movie they're in, a sink that they got in a movie. Merchandise, what their tour are coming up. A lot of times we're across artists brand deals and making sure. that they have all their deliverables on that. We get the contract and make sure that they actually do what they're supposed to. But all we're across pretty much anything that's going to make the money,

there's going to be a digital reflection of that and we have to be across that. Any good juicy or drama stories from like large artists that you've worked with, like any good story dropping you can do from, I don't know, something. I don't have to be juicy or salacious, but just, I don't know, fun. I know you mentioned the one thing, but anything else that's like, rare that people would get a kick out of? I don't know. I think this is always a fun story for me.

I remember one time, so Backstreet Boys were like the love of my life when I was 12. And they all, and they're a client of mine now. And they all know that they were the love of my life when I was a teenager. And I remember I was at dinner one time with AJ from Backstreet Boys. And he just like cornered me and he's, who was your favorite?

And I was like, I don't want to answer that question. This is so stressful to me. Who's your favorite? Who's your favorite? I'm like, I'm not going to tell you. And he's, no, it's not me because you would have said it. And I was like, oh, you're right. I totally gave it away. But that was, it was funny, but also I got really embarrassed about it. Because I really didn't want them to know who my favorite was because I know them all now. And I don't want to be like, yeah, I had a huge teenage crush on this person. Like it really stressed me out. Do they embrace it now? It's all good nature to do. Do they embrace it or is like social media? They're hiring you to manage it. They know they need to do it. But I would think that some of them. or just kind of not that they understand the power of it, but it's a lot to deal with. They're all smart and I think they understand that it's important. And I think some of them, some of the members of Backsture Boys, I think have a really good time on social media. I think I don't think any of them hate it.

Yeah. And I think a lot of them do have moments where they have, have fun with it. But I do think they all view that it's important. And I think they view me and my team is important because we understand their fan base and what they're going to want to what's important to them. because I think sometimes they're almost surprised as to what a fan of theirs might care about. They're like, really, that's interesting? And I'm like, absolutely. Like, your fan base will love this.

I promise. But they're in general, just really great to work with and very, like, reasonable and kind. And they didn't fall in the don't meet your heroes category for me. Thank God. I was worried about working with them because of that because I love them so much when I was younger. And they're one of the reasons why I loved going to concerts and wanted to work in music. but they fortunately have been awesome and very easygoing in terms and cooperative about social media. So I'm grateful for them.

What do you make of the power of music, I think, is no better personified now than the power of Taylor Swift and everything that's happened with her and every storyline. And I just saw where she was like the most streamed artist on Spotify this year. It's just it's amazing kind of watching her journey both in and hour. of the music industry. All this music talk made me think of her and just stuff with Travis Kelsey and all this stuff. But she's just a total badass, huh? Yeah.

Yeah. She's a brilliant artist and a brilliant businesswoman on, you know, both sides. I think she has both of those things mastered. And I think something that's been really cool about watching her release, all the Taylor's versions of these, all the Taylor's versions of her. records is that it shows that like when a song comes out, it's not dead in three months. Like it has a bigger, like songs have a really big lifespan and can deserve to be re-released and celebrated again. And I think that this concept has really proven that point.

I think also trends in TikTok have really proven that point. Songs that are more popular now than they were 10 years ago. but music doesn't have to like age the way I think that we traditionally have looked at it as an industry. And I think that her releasing those records has proven the power of that and a lot of trends that are happening on TikTok and social media in general. I've proved that point. I'm excited about that because people spend so much time creating these songs and they shouldn't just be shelved because they're three months old. So I'm really happy about that. That is a very good insight and a very good point.

And something I've noticed with the way back, if you look at the charts now, the way some of these artists where it was always just, it was always about that timeline, okay, when it comes on, how long is it going to make it on air and like it lives and dies on that timeline? When you're 100% right, number one, these albums have 10 to 15 songs on them. And there's always some albums, maybe there's only one hit, but a lot of them, there's a ton of songs on there.

And it's been interesting if you watch the charts, seeing like five, six, seven songs from different artists that make the charts to stay on there. And then even back to my country compares to Morgan Wallen, having like entire that every song on the album in the top 20 for six months. And then the album. But to your point, the longevity of the songs and then bringing songs back, I have appreciated that happening more. And I think it's probably just the nature of the streaming

and not just living and dying by the radio station. But that's a great insight. Yeah. And I love the multiple songs on a chart thing. Because growing up when I was a teenager, you didn't see that because radio drove a lot of those numbers. And I think about when Baxter Boys Millennium came out. And I wanted that was going to be the song that was charting with that moment.

And then you had larger than life. after that. But if it would have been released now, that whole record would have been charting that way. And all those songs had cultural relevance and not just the one that was on the chart. So I like to see a more accurate representation of what people are listening to and excited about. And a lot of times that is multiple songs from the same artist. And I think it's also encouraged these artists to not just to put out music faster and not be scared that they have. this one hit going and they don't want to ruin it. So like they're quicker to do collaborations.

They're quicker to do an EP or put out a song fast. It just seems like it's helped evolve the artists that have a lot of talent, a lot of ability to just keep pumping it out. Yeah, for sure. And you don't have to go be in a studio for a year and not release anything. Like there's there, you don't have, you don't have to follow. You can follow any template you want now. There's for some artists that is the way they need to do it, they need to go collect their thoughts and make a record for a year and then come back.

But some people are like tortured by that process. And like some artists like to release stuff closer to when they're developing it. And I'm glad that's an option for them now. Absolutely. Cassie, it's been a great discussion. Where could everybody learn more about you, keep up with everything that you're up to? So I'm most active on LinkedIn and Instagram. And it's just my name, Cassie.

us, i.e. Petrie, P-E-T-R-E-Y. It's been great having you on. Appreciate you doing it. Thank you for having me. And if you want to learn from me directly, join my newsletter. Ryanofford.com backslash newsletter. Sign up. I give daily advice on marketing, personal branding, podcasting.

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You know what to find us, the radcast.com. Search for Cassie Petrie. You'll find all the episode highlight quotes from today. The links to her profile and the full episode, audio, and video. You know, and find me. I'm at Ryan Alford on all the social media platforms. We'll see you next time. To listen or watch full episodes, visit us on the web at the radcast.com

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