Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice - The Mayor of Craft Beer, Nate Tomforde and Ryan Talk Beer Business

Episode Date: March 17, 2020

On this episode, Ryan sits down with Nate Tomforde the Founder of Pour Taproom, the largest self-serve taproom group in the US. Nate gives great background on his entrepreneurial journey and his vision for Pour Taproom. Tons of great insights here about the growth of the Craft Beer business and leveraging technology to improve processes while not minimizing the importance of human interaction. If you enjoy this episode please check out the rest of our episodes on our channel. Please share, review, and subscribe! Radical Podcast is always looking forward to meeting both aspiring, and grounded professionals across the country! Slide Ryan or Radical a DM on Instagram and let's make it happen! @radical_results on Instagram @ryanalford on Instagram www.radical.company Sponsorships: off for this episode If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, join Ryan’s newsletter https://ryanalford.com/newsletter/ to get Ferrari level advice daily for FREE.  Learn how to build a 7 figure business from your personal brand by signing up for a FREE introduction to personal branding https://ryanalford.com/personalbranding.  Learn more by visiting our website at www.ryanisright.comSubscribe to our YouTube channel  www.youtube.com/@RightAboutNowwithRyanAlford. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey guys, on this episode of the Radical Company podcast, I sit down with the mayor of craft beer. Nate Tom Ford. Nate started and founded poor tap room, nine locations soon to be 10 across the country. We talk about his path to entrepreneurship, growing the craft beer business, helping local craft beers get seen, heard, tasted throughout his poor rooms. And really interesting dialogue about beer business in general and some tips and try. tricks for entrepreneurs out there looking to grow. Really enjoyed sitting down with the mayor and hope you enjoyed today's podcast. Hey guys, what's up?

Welcome back to the Radical Company podcast. It's been a couple weeks, but we're getting back into the groove here at the wonderful camaraderie where we work. We're co-work space for our agency Radical. If you're ever in Greenville, come see us. We're right on the Swamp Rabbit Trail in downtown Greenville. I am pumped about today. I've been getting to donate a little bit here over the last few months.

We have a lot in common and excited to talk the business of beer. I mean, who doesn't love beer, right? No, it's the best. Nate Tomford is the founder of Poor Tap Room and other ventures. He's an entrepreneur, and there's nine locations in the country now. And Nate founded that business, and I'm excited to kind of get behind the same. scenes. You know, being in marketing advertising, I've worked on a few different beer brands, Budweiser, a little bit, about 10 years ago, up at New York, and then now more of the craft

scene, which I know we're going to get into, the booming craft beer business. As much as I kind of hate the snobbiness of craft beer, as some of my friends are, and you know who you are if you're listening to this. But I'm excited to get into it. I mean, who does, I mean, did you ever think you'd be when you were growing up I'm gonna be in the did you know was just like a dream the beer business no I mean I love the service industry food and beverage but never thought hey me selling beer for a living I never thought about that well let's start um Nate from the beginning maybe just some of your background you know let's talk about what led to ultimately the idea I mean it's a pretty unique concept you know we've got some some of people watching the video

you'll see the screen up you can go to poor taproom dot com I learn more about the business. But let's start from the beginning. I mean, let's talk about like just general background that led you, maybe ultimately to founding it, but, you know, talk about some of your early days. And have you always been on your entrepreneur? I mean, yeah.

I mean, from the time I was little, I remember just trying to hustle and sell things to make money. So like a lot of people had a landscaping, lawn mowing business. I saved up my own money to buy a Super Nintendo. That was huge then. Baseball cards? Baseball cards, Super Nintendo.

And then ultimately saved up to buy my own car. So my dad's in construction and blue collar. Didn't have a lot of money. So if I wanted something, I had to work for it. Earn that money and then I could buy it. So from my early age, I really enjoyed that. you know, that I could put together some ideas, buy the right equipment, and go make some money.

So that carried on into college. I started a clothing line in college. It was called PowerShirts.com. And Power Shirts was in 2000, and we had an online store accepting PayPal in 1999, 2000. That's early E-Com there. Really? This was before Gap.

anybody had you could not buy clothes online you could go to their website and see what they had Amazon was just selling books then I think yes so we were I had all these shirts in my apartment my roommate just scattered all over and I would be shipping people random people shirts so I don't even know how they found out about us but it had a you know it had all the video on the website and you know we thought we were pretty cool so we were I mean now looking back you were definitely ahead of the curve so that was fun they were they were shirts that had like the the positive one-word message on them like believe you were way advanced like because everything now but think about it Nate like now every that that's what's cool now I mean everyone's

got a t-shirt that's got those things though you guys e-com and motivational uh speaking shirts is uh you were definitely 20 years and ahead of it. It was fun. We did a, like, a fashion show, and we were going to be in Hatt and Ashbury District in San Francisco, and then unfortunately lost a momentum with my partner, had a terrible family loss, and it just kind of derailed our momentum. So, oh, well.

So entrepreneur from the get-go started in the e-com business. And then is it like every other entrepreneur, got grounded a little bit back to the real world. Yes. And then that's kind of my story too. Well, I grew up in San Jose, California, so the Silicon Valley. So DNA is just, you know, this tech is part of my DNA.

Just part of when you grow up there and you see all the entrepreneurism and you see the, all the different startups, it really makes you think through, you know, how can I use technology to, you know, to kind of further, take something that is easy to sell and use technology to sell it further. So that's what I like to do. I like to take simple things and then not recreate the product, but figure out how to deliver that product in a new way.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, pretty much the concept of poor in a lot of ways. It is. It is. Yeah. Let's talk about, when do we start poor? 2014 so six years ago where'd the idea come from I mean was it just well I saw um tech company had like a short video of they were basically because self-served taps have been around for about 10 years mostly in like tabletops one or two taps sometimes 12 and really what it was designed for was volume of cheap beer stadiums use them for for cheaper American, you know, loggers.

And you would just, you know, try to free up your bartenders to let people just pour beer. It caps off at 32 ounces. And then it frees up your bartenders to serve more wine and cocktails. So it was really a function of convenience and, hey, just pouring pints is laborious. It takes very little skill to pour a pint.

Right. Till your glass, you know, and fill it up. So you say that. I tell you what, we have a keg here at the co-workspace. I must be the world's crappiest beer pour because no matter what, I have half a glass of foam. And I know, like, and I'll watch, someone will come behind me and like, I'm like, watching the other or something. I'm like, he has no head on this.

I'm like, I'm jealous of the pour. I'm like, I've turned it sideways. I don't know what it is. Sometimes it's, I mean, I'm sure it's not the best draft system. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably as more.

The rolling Keggerator is not the perfect draft system. Come on. We'll say it has more to do with that than you. We'll be nice. We'll go with that. I digress. So, yes. Yeah.

Do you want to walk you through 2014 and beyond? Yeah, let's hear it. I want to hear it. I moved from Santa Cruz, California, to Asheville, North Carolina. One, to get closer to my wife's family here in Greenville, where I now live. but the other was because Asheville was one of the new up-and-coming craft beer

kind of mecca places. And so I thought if I was going to move back to the south or southern region, that that would be a good place to kind of test the concept. So I got in touch with the tech company out in California and really

talk to them about a concept that would be started from scratch, like a true self-serve bar, not just six taps or 12 taps. Like the architecture of the building, the way the setup, the layout, everything would be this giant tap system of beer, wine, cider, and create an entire 100% self-serve bar for beer and wine. It hadn't been done before. There was a place in San Diego that had a few, had a lot of taps, but they still had a bar.

So people were using it as like a widget, kind of a marketing thing. I wanted it to be an entire business plan because for me it was about variety and selection, not about, hey, here's this cool technology. I'm a big believer that technology should be used to standardize the delivery of a product, but not necessarily replace people and get rid of labor. Right. It does naturally help reduce some labor in a restaurant, but if you're going to open a self-serve place for that reason, you're doing it for the wrong reason in my personal opinion. We used it as a way to try lots of different beers and wines because you pay as you go by the ounce.

So the idea is that the variety and selection really dictated the business plan. That makes sense. And I've been to the wine bars that have the machines and things like that. I always liked that concept of, because the biggest thing with trying a new beverage is like ordering a whole drink. Right. Or even if you want to do a grocery store and ordering a whole bottle.

Yeah. So you're like getting to, hey, we have an ounce of this, you know, to really try it before you buy it. Yeah. Or you're buying your ounce, but instead of buying a full beer or full... It's less risky. Yeah, exactly. A lot less risky.

So first pour opens... 2014. It was the first pour. first one in west ashrill on haywood road um and there was 54 taps there um 56 my my fault 48 beers and eight wines uh 56 taps and it was the largest self-serve bar that ever been opened and the first 100 percent self-serve bar in the country how it had it go i mean was it a new concept first one first one of anything's always a little bit, you know, dicey. It was really difficult in a lot of ways, just the networking, the layout, getting permits

and licenses. It was very confusing to the alcohol up there. It's ALE, alcohol law enforcement, North Carolina, and South Carolina, it's SLED. Those agencies do not like new things. So there was, it was a lot harder than people realize it still is hard six years later. We've just figured out how to navigate through and educate local officials and everything that it's not a frat party, pay $15 and drink till you drop, you know, from a solo cup keg. There's something that they think that the bartender being in between the person and the alcohol is somehow,

and don't get me wrong, I know that good bartenders know when not to over-serve people. but at the same time, there's a lot of misguided assumptions that that bartender is stopping someone from drinking more than they should. Correct. Well, unfortunately, that bartender's not getting paid very well, so all of their money is tips. So they don't want to stop people from drinking because they'll make more in tips. And like you said, that's certainly not a majority of bartenders. They're doing a great job.

But again, the idea of... They're serving how many ever people. It's not, it's unfeasible for them. Yeah, if someone's falling over, of course. But, you know, if someone's following over at Port Hap Room, you've got enough people there that they're not letting that happen either. Correct. And the way the system works is based on alcohol, volume,

and, you know, wine is less, but it's 32 ounces of beer is the largest single serving in most states before you get to a pitcher. And then a pitcher of beer has to be shared between two or more people. So the 32 ounces is a good cutoff spot to basically check on somebody, right? Make sure that they're not slurring their speech. Make sure that they're not stumbling. I mean that and you're not serving people under 21.

Those are the three main things you have to be aware of as a bartender. So we still have bartenders. They're just more hosting, talking to people about the product, showing them how to work the system. It's more of a laid-back kind of like house party vibe. because you can get as little as much as you want. You don't have to wait on anybody. You also aren't pressured into, hey, you want another drink? Are you sure?

You don't want another drink? And you feel like I better leave this table because I'm tying up this server bartender's table. And I don't want them to, you know, it's this like game that you're, how long can I stay without having to buy another drink? I already had two, you know? Yeah.

So what's interesting is the system, I think, is more, efficient at catching that because it doesn't care how much money you have or how good looking you are. It's going to cut you off when you hit 32 ounces and then you're going to be forced to talk to a beer host or a bartender server and you are you're going to get a site check just like a bartender should be doing every time they serve you a drink. They should be looking at you and making sure that you're you know that it's okay to serve you another drink. So anyway, that's kind of the legal side of things. As far as the reception, most, I don't know how many people listening to this know Asheville,

but Asheville is a unique place and new concepts are not that welcomed, even though we're just a local business that lived in West Asheville. It definitely was, you know, a different thing for people. Now at the time, there was only eight breweries in Asheville. Now there's 43 in proper Asheville. There was very few beer bars. So it was a great platform to showcase local beer because a lot of those breweries didn't have tap rooms. Now they all have these amazing tap rooms.

But at the time, we would do tap takeovers every week. Local breweries like Highwire and Highland and Green Man and Kataba and all these places were very excited because not a lot of people would drive out to their tap rooms. they wanted to, you know, showcase their beer and being able to try their beer and put four different beers on tap and have them try them and then they could, you know, go buy what they wanted from the store. And then we started doing crowler cans in 2015, which was, there was only about eight to ten places in the country doing crowlers at the time. So that was kind of new. It's canning a single can, which is very popular now, but you fill it up on draft, and then you seal it,

can it one at a time and we were selling like 300 of those a month for a while because it was it was so new and novel but overall I mean we did really well sales wise and I think the community saw that you know I was owner-operator a year and a half just putting in time in the community you know supporting the breweries all we do today still today is showcase local and regional craft beer that's why we call it a beer festival every day we do also have a good amount of wine and cider have some needs and, you know, a lot of variety. Now, the seltzers are more popular, but you can still support a craft brewery. They make seltzers, so you don't have to just go get a big brand seltzer.

You can still support that local person. It's just as good, better ingredients. So that's really kind of how it started in Asheville, and then we had an opportunity to open a location here in Greenville. and that was really for family. My brother-in-law runs this store here in Greenville and downtown. And so we went a little bigger, bigger space, did 70 taps here. And it was pretty bonkers from the start. Just very busy, big space, dog-friendly.

We partnered with the Mexican restaurant Green Goes Next Store to provide all the food, so we didn't have to have a kitchen. So we had that kind of setting and vibe of a brewery downtown. And Blue Ridge Mountain was there, but then they eventually moved to Greer. So we were kind of that big craft beer place downtown, and that was in 2016. So we've been here now four years. So talk to me about the technology side, you know, where that comes in. Is that all in the dispensing of, you know, the ounces and things like that?

there's a valve and a flow meter. There's nothing new about valves and flow meters. They're on gasoline and oil and different things like that. And so we had partnered with a tech company. We have a different partnership with a different tech company now. And so, you know, I helped a lot in kind of beta testing things and looking at customer perception and how they interacted with the screens because every tap has a tablet above it, which acts as a digital tap handle. So we can change that tap handle. And it gives you tasting notes and the breweries logo and ABV and then the price per ounce. So it's very informational.

It's a huge part of the visual appearance of a place as well. And we can change it automatically. So the technology allows for keeping a live tab. So you just come in and you open a tab, just like any. bar and then you just pay for what you drink so you can get four ounces and be done or you can have two or three beers so there the technology obviously is a huge portion of poor tap room and then you just close out your tab at the end of the night or you walk out and add 20% tip just like any other bar how's the no domestic beer i assume like your normal no we put domestic beers like like

Bud Light Yeah, there's PBR I mean Yingling is craft But PBR Medello Okay

I mean we want to have Some cheaper Easier drinking options I don't Like to have a ton Of Inbev products On Inbev Owns Budweiser

Yeah Lots of other craft breweries They don't love Craft beer Obviously So I don't love them It's just as simple as that I try to be the mayor of craft beer.

And so most people don't need to taste Budweiser. So there's, but we will have PBR and, like I said, Modelo, three or four or five options, depending on the location, easy drinking beers that, you know, you can come in and get for,

you know, $3 a pint, you know, that type of thing. What do you think, you know, starting in 14, you're six years in. We'll get to some of the, the additional locations. I know you're nine now.

Yeah. But what have you seen is the business of beard, how it's changing and evolving? You know, you talked about in Asheville, when you first there, there's seven or eight breweries, and now, you know, with the ability for them to have tap rooms,

there's 40 plus. So obviously, a boom market with craft overall. But talk about, any of the just business of beer in general, the evolution that you've seen just in the last six years? What are things that stick out to you? Yeah, beer trends are interesting. So a couple of different things. Beer trends, the tap room mentality for the breweries now, and then just the number of breweries and beer spots has drastically increased. It's just a lot more competitive

now. There's thousands of more breweries today than there was six years ago. I don't know the exact number, but it's in the thousands, somewhere like three or four thousand, and now there's close to seven thousand. It's almost doubled in six years, so nationwide. So we are a national company now, but we can get into that later, but there are partnerships. We're not a franchise. guys. So styles are interesting. We had a sour section back in 2015, and sours were totally new. Most of the sours came from Belgium, and Belgium had been making sours for hundreds of years. American brewers started finally doing that. Sours, you know, aged. It has different types of bacteria, whether it's lactobacillus, or just there's lots of different types. And, um,

So that was a new style. Craft cider started growing. Cideries are a big deal. You know, most cider that I had was like horns bees or something. It was like incredibly sweet. My wife. My wife loves the ciders. The blueberry cider that I'm convinced as like 70 grams of sugar probably.

Well, the craft ciders are using more natural ingredients. They're not adding sugar and all these different things. So the beer trends, that's really interesting. IPAs have always been big, but some of the other things that have come around. I think now craft breweries have realized that most people and a lot of Americans, they want an easy drinking beer. So there are craft lagers and pilsons. You don't just have to buy a cheap American lager.

You can buy a lager made with 100% pils and malt from river. ever been malt house up in Asheville like Highwire does they make 100% pills and malt lager and it's fantastic so I know all the craft all the craft beer people are going to poo poo me I'm just going to say it though and I enjoy one or two craft beers I'm not a hoppy guy right so I'm not I did buy big IPAs just have never been my thing I've but I've just being a hundred percent transparent I have not found, you know, on a good game day Saturday where I like to have four to six Miller Lights. Sure.

And I have no affinity to Miller Light. It's just easy to drink. I have yet, and this is your challenge, everyone always goes, but you haven't had the blonde blah, blah, blah. And I'll have two, and I want no more. But I want more. You know what I'm saying? But I don't want any more of that. I am still trying to find the every day you're going to have four or five and not be falling.

I'm six, five, two, 50. I'm not falling over after four or five beers. But, you know, that's a comfortable level for me on an enjoyment. I've yet to find the craft beer that is that one. There's your challenge. There's dozens. And just here locally or regionally. Have you tried the Alighash White?

No, yeah, I've tried the Alagash White. I can drink two of them. That's a Belgian wit. You want a light American lager. And there are multiple crapperies that make light American lagers that are 4.5% alcohol, which is what a Miller light is. And they're going to be clean and crisp and carbonated and easy drinking. I mean, Pilsners and lagers is probably where you need to stay.

I mean, Belgian wits or wheat beers, they're going to be. And I like the ones that are tasty. But like when I'm going to have one or two, and I'm fine with that. I appreciate that. love the different flavors, I enjoy it. Yeah. But when I'm looking to liberate a little, as we call it, on a Friday, celebrate a little. Anyway, I digress.

So that is, I guess that's what I'm saying about the trends is they've, craftberries have realized that and now they're making those 100 calorie 4.5% loggers and pilsners, but they're using wholesome ingredients. You know, they're using malt and hops, yeast and water. not putting corn or adjuncts is what it's called into the beer they're still using good ingredients so you know like I said high wire logger is a fantastic you know four and a half percent maybe 4.7 percent alcohol beer that you could drink four to six of them and you know it's not to be too sweet it's not going to be you know too hoppy and and so keep looking or I'll after the

show oh yeah I'll give you a list I'll be down and uh or come over to the pour and we'll sample some. Yeah, we have a huge section that we just call light beers, so they're lighter in color, mostly, and lighter in alcohol. And so we have general categories.

They're not really styles of beer, so we have a lot of styles within that section, just to simplify it so people can go to that area. One thing I found, you know, it's fascinating, you know, being a marketer. You know, I know it's grown. You know,

I think, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, a lot of these breweries are started by beer lovers. They're wanting to follow their passion. And I'm wondering when it clicks in, like, I really need to make money doing this versus it's a hobby. And you have so many people. And so how many people are coming into craft now because they want to get bought by Budweiser?

Or how many are coming in because it's still that love and affinity for the, the grains and the making something you know like i i'm fascinated by the uh just the the balance of those things because you know you got to sell enough beer to make some money and make enough money to make it worthwhile but then there's the love of craft and then the selling the budwiser which one is it like what i think that pre 2015 16 it was your home brewer's passionate i want to do this for a living i enjoy that the community aspect of it.

And I would still say the majority of all craft brewery owners are in it for the reasons of for the love of the grain and the malt and community. I think first and foremost, what makes craft beer unique is that it's locally made. And so when you're part of a local community, you're making a product on site and you're opening your doors up for people to enjoy that you're supporting something local you're not just buying it buying Budweiser from the grocery store and it's made wherever it's made so there's that approach so I think most people that are in it for the right there are more and more businessmen getting into craft beer that care more about money than the community so it's going to happen it's

the evolution of of an industry right people it starts growing right and then more people pay attention and say, oh, I can make some money on that, so we're going to invest. So you will see more and more of that, but I would still say a large, large majority of people are doing it for community and because they love beer. And, you know, part of the reason why people are getting into it more for the money is the tap room sales. So I saw that, you know, from the beginning. That's why I wanted to do a tap room and not open a brewery is I loved beer, but I didn't have the skill set to brew beer. And so I thought, you know, selling it, you know, buying it wholesale and selling at retail was for me the best way to be a part of the community, enjoy, you know, connect with the brewers

and support them, but then, you know, make money that you have to in business. So it's an interesting balance now because from the beginning of beer, breweries would sell beer to the the pubs and then people drank at the pubs. There wasn't a lot of breweries that had their own tap rooms. I mean, 10 seats at a bar and you come up and order a pint or do a tasting or take a brewery tour, but they weren't large bars. Right. And so what started to happen in Asheville and his start is now everywhere is that you have breweries acting as the manufacturer and as the retailer and that's a really tricky thing I still struggle with it because all we do is buy other people's products but then now they're competing against us for the tap room sales so how do you

handle that I don't know it's well you have the you're great differentiator is the variety right correct because Jimmy terrible craft name don't ever call your you know and I love Jimmy's we work with a company that's Jimmy's and I love Jimmy so Jimmy if you're listening to this I love you, but Jimmy's craft beer is not maybe the best craft beer, but it's my example. But Jimmy's isn't going to have, I'm going to say something that's not craft beer anymore, like wicked weed. I think they're owned by like Budweiser now, aren't they? They are owned by Enron.

Freudian, exactly by point of all this. But, you know, Jimmy's isn't going to have wicked weed on tap and all that. He's only going to have Jimmy's, right? Correct. So that's your great, always your great differentiators, you know, the selection of variety. but at the same time I get it, it's a challenge. Yeah, I mean, every poor tavern that you go to will have probably half of, roundabout half of the taps will be local or regional within an hour or two.

So you can come to one place like you would at a beer festival and taste. You taste two ounces of 13 different beers before you find something you like. I mean, it's endless. So to me, the tasting room, that is our advantage. there is a when you can come to one place and try a beer from virtually every brewery in the area

that that distributes that does sell their beer that's a tagline brother I'm looking at this right now and like to get into my poor tap room the craft beer person's tasting room yeah you know yeah there's your hey

yeah you must be good at this no it's yeah but that is yeah it's a so there's a struggle there and you have to be, you do have to be, find something unique. You have to find a widget, unfortunately, to make yourself different or you're just the same as everyone else. So, you know, always location first. I mean, breweries still have a hard time. They can't just go in downtown because there are regulations. When you're brewing beer, it puts off odors and smells, and you can't just be downtown around a million-dollar apartments like in Greenville. So you have to still,

there are just regulations where you can manufacture and produce beer so tap rooms places like a poor tap room will be able to still compete with top-notch locations in downtown areas where you're getting high volume people can taste law stuff and then we encourage people to go out to the breweries that they like i mean it's a we're supporting and making breweries money so there's no reason for the symbiotic relationship to continue it just just is a little trickier than it was in 2014-15. So we're navigating that space. I think breweries understand that.

They're still trying to push people out to the pubs and the tap rooms, but they're also competing in the bar business. So I don't really know what else to say about it, except that we have to just keep winning on excellent locations and keep offering variety. And then you've got to make a space fun. It's got to be dog-friendly. You've got to have games.

It's got to be family-friendly. You've got to have some food. but you don't need to be a full restaurant, but you do need to offer some form of hot food. And so those are the challenges that we continue to, you know, face as we grow. And our growth has been through an early adopters, kind of friends and family network that we decided to basically create a partnership

or a license. So they have a lot of freedom to do their own thing. They use our brand. We teach them. There's a lot of consulting, you know, we teach them how to open the business to navigate local laws, help them secure a lease because the power of the brand and our proven concept secures A-plus locations.

That's the number one thing that we really offer is that brand, the marketing, the website, social media. So, I mean, I did all of our social media for three or four years before I kind of outsourced it. So that's that Silicon Valley, you know, just wanting to kind of do. things and understanding it enough to get to get by I think as far as social media is concerned we have some of the the biggest impact for a bar that you would have because we're very instagramable we're very you know videos and it's a very visual place yeah those screens light up

at night and and it's it's an impressive you know appearance compared to say an average bar so you know that the the growth has been what I love to do today is help other people open their own business. You know, it's a big dream for a lot of people to be able to open it up. And it can be, it's extremely complicated to start, but then after you learn and you train on that, it can be very relaxing compared to a typical restaurant because you're hanging out with customers, you're talking them about the product and showing them away, rather than constantly, you know, pouring pints endlessly, you know, just. you don't have time to really talk to customers.

That's what's interesting is when you come to a poor tavern, you'll have more time to talk to staff and learn about the local scene or what different beers to try because they can direct you that way. Rather than a bartender who's literally, it's transactional. I give you money, you hand me a pint. And so for beer, that skill set, anybody can learn to pour a beer. I mean, it takes practice, but it's different than a cock, or even talking to a Somelier about wine and the tasting notes.

So that will always, in my opinion, continue. You can't put cocktails on tap, you know, margaritas, mules, things like that, work really well on tap. But you're never going to be able to, like, get an old-fashioned or a Manhattan or something like that that's going to taste good. So the goal, again, for Port Tavern is not to replace bartenders. It's to transition their role from a bartender to a host, to someone who spends more time with people

and talking about product and less time just hustling and serving. So we're in nine total markets now? Yeah, we just announced our 10th in Buffalo, New York. Okay. Opening this summer that just came out. So we just kind of went to the media with that early this week. Atlanta.

Mm-hmm. Mostly in the southeast. Mostly southeast. Yeah, Knoxville, Tennessee, Durham, Charlotte, Wilmington, North Carolina, Charleston, Greenville, St. Petersburg, Florida, Atlanta, and then Santa Cruz, California, where I'm from my best friend growing up, opened a spot out there. Where do you see all this going? That's a good question.

I mean, I enjoy helping other people open a spot, so as long as there's interest, We don't do hardcore marketing sales right now. We're very picky. We have a long kind of application process. It's about five steps to kind of get through. Because it's a partnership and we don't have this 200-page franchise agreement, we have, it's very intrapersonal. So we take our time. It's a long kind of sales process, so to speak.

It can be a year and a half or so. From the time we start talking to somebody until they actually get open. just because leasing a building and upfitting it and all of that can take six to eight months as is. So I'm not saying I won't franchise someday. I think if we can dial in a model and it makes sense. Franchises are not evil. I mean, it's the number one small business in America is opening a franchise. It's not just food and beverage.

It's construction. It's windows. It's lots of different things. Pet care. There's so many franchises because it's a proven model. And so if you want to, you know, have a career or a job or be self-employed, you pay somebody some money and they teach you how to run a business and it's yours. So definitely open to doing that someday if we can dial it in. The problem early on, which is not so much anymore, is that craft beer is local.

And you can't, you know, just regulate the product. You want it to be very unique for each location. And we wanted to find the best location possible. So every poor tap room looks completely different and unique. You have like our Wilmington store is in an old 1900s bank. They put the wine taps in the vault. I mean, it's just beautiful old building, you know, with an upstairs area, home mezzanay area.

And then, you know, Greenville here is in an old World War II era warehouse that was all boarded up and, you know, just this old kind of airport. plane hangar looking building and then in Charleston we're the tallest rooftop bar and restaurant and all of Charleston on King Street. We're on top of the Hyatt. So we have wrap around views. And so I always just say let's find the best location possible. Then you kind of make it look however you need to and then we figure out how many taps we can get in there. And so that's hard to franchise, you know, put it in a box. And so there are ways to do it. There's lots of franchises do a great job.

and you can still locally owned and operated. So I think... Spoken like a true craft, you know, like everything about you is like the true craft with the true craft beer guy, like the mayor of craft beer, which is now your official title for me. Yes. But that's why it's hard because, you know, no true someone that appreciates the art of the beer and the art of the business, it makes it really hard to cookie.

because there's something, there's, you know, cookie cutter that's franchise, you know, and I think that goes against, like, all, I imagine now getting to know you better, you know, kind of all of your, yeah, you want to have a system and process and technology and you appreciate all that. But the art of it all is kind of hard to duplicate because you go to a different market. There's different settings. There are different things. There are different people.

There's different local breweries. Correct. Yeah. You know, all that makes it hard to duplicate. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a path to get there and you dedicate, you know, a large portion of your taps to local and then maybe the rest are regional and you can still stay craft. But so they're working through that now. I mean, I think you get to a certain spot and you do have to have some things in place to make sure that the quality is there.

That the repetition and the standard that we create for the brand is duplicated correctly. So, but, and I do actually get to finally open a brewery too. So I can, I'm finally going to, I found partners and a good brewer here locally, so we get to finally scratch that itch and, uh, do we have a name? Do we have a name? Be a part of it. Yes. It's a double-stamped brewery.

It's going to be on Lauren's Road, close to downtown. but it's a unique space with a half acre private park and a home team barbecue is going to be there. We're going to have 250 parking spots. It's really going to be a pretty epic outdoor location. There's an adventure park, zip line, well, actually more of a ropes course that's going in there by the other side of the Swamp Rabbit Trail behind East Washington Street. How wide a distribution do you want for the beer itself? Zero. Okay.

Zero. Yeah. We're just going to have. a tap room and and do that. So the goal with that was it's location. If a developer comes to you with an amazing location, it's hard, hard to turn down. And I feel like Greenville can use a few more outdoor spaces. There's obviously some great ones. Birds Fly South does a fantastic job. And just wanting to be more involved in the craft beer scene here in Greenville. I mean, Poor Taprooms supported a lot of local breweries throughout the last four years.

And now I want to have an opportunity to also join that side of the team, so to speak. As we close out, any advice for whether someone listening to is in the craft business or the beer business or just an entrepreneur in general, I mean, you kind of had a lot of experience. You enjoy helping people. Any like, I imagine we can have a podcast just about that in full. But any tips. Yeah, I know. We can do that.

We can have a little ongoing segment here. I'm so interested in, we're going to save a secret. You know, Nate and I are talking about he's got some good ideas, and I want to execute them. But we'll come back to that. But any advice for entrepreneurs out there that, in general, general like any like words of wisdom like that's a tough question that's a big question what's the biggest thing you've learned you know like or a couple of the biggest things like

I think for me when I was thinking about starting a business it's a it's kind of a relentless pursuit of finding things that are easy to sell and finding a way to sell it in a unique way I think those are some of the best ideas out there. I mean, just very simple things. And it's like, well, why didn't I think of that way to sell it or that way to promote it? And so I think if you can find something, you know, I'm not an inventor and a creator. So some people can find, you know, niches in a market where they are programmers and coders and they are able to create an app or a website or something that fills a really unique niche.

However, I think today, I mean, there's a lot of creators out there. And so rather than trying to just beat everybody at creating something, maybe take that like we did with beer and wine and say, how can we make this more approachable? You know, all these unique styles of beer, you know, it's like 65 plus styles. How do we educate people on that? And it's, well, we have to give them a variety and selection. So the technology allows that to happen.

So I think, you know, you can say that the typical find something you love and go do it. That doesn't always pay the bills, unfortunately. I definitely think you should do something you love, but it might not be your career, unfortunately. So I think find something that is easy to sell and find a new way to sell it. I love it. Well, the mayor of craft, Nate Tomford. I'll take it.

I love it. There's worse names. That we have found the title of the podcast. Ryan sits with the mayor of craft, Nate Tomford. Nate, I really appreciate you coming on. I look forward to developing our relationship and helping each other down the road. Absolutely. And I know people will find this story fascinating.

And, you know, I love just learning. learning about other people's kind of entrepreneurial journey. So I know the people will enjoy it. And thank you for coming on, brother. Yeah, thank you for having me. That's fun. All right, guys, this is Ryan Offord, the host of the Radical Company podcast. You can learn more about Poor Taproom online at poor taproom.com.

Look up Nate Tomford on LinkedIn, other channels. Anything else, Nate, where they can find you that you'd mentioned? Good place, LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the best, yeah. Yeah. So look up, Nate on LinkedIn, and you can find us at Radical. dot company online and at radical underscore results on Instagram. Thank you so much.

We'll see you next time.