Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice - Why Grit Is More Important Than Talent: Eric Mac Lain’s Journey From Football To Business

Starting point is 00:00:01 You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. Ryan Offord, your host, your number one business and marketing show on Apple Podcast. We appreciate that. Wherever, whenever, however you're listening, we say if it's radical, we cover it.

Starting point is 00:00:31 And any time I get friends and anyone associated with Clemson on the show because they're kicking ass and taking names, I get even more excited. I got my good friend Eric McLean. He's a college football analyst with ESPN, the ACC Network, and of course, the co-host of the Gremlin and McLean podcast. What's up, Eric? Brother, listen, here's the deal. When I got the message to come on this show, I knew I'd made it.

Starting point is 00:00:55 First take, ESPN, college game day, throw all that to the side. this is where I wanted to be, brother. So jacked up to be with you today. Appreciate you having me and excited to jump into a bunch of different things. Hey, man. It's my pleasure, and I appreciate that. And at the end of the day, it's been fun watching your growth on TV, on the show with Kelly, you know, from days at CCP and, you know, but look,

Starting point is 00:01:25 at days, it at Clemson, you know, being a big recruit, and I watched your whole career unfold there. You know, you were the rock in some of the glory days at Clemson. We've talked about that. We won't hone in too hard. We're having a little bit of a struggle this year. But, you know, but it's been great. I've loved watching your growth.

Starting point is 00:01:42 And look, dude, you're fucking killing it on TV. I love it, man. You look great. I'm sitting there watching my boy, we were watching you on Saturday. I was sitting there when Nicole. And I'm like, there's Eric's coming on the show. So she's like, oh, really? I'm like, he does a great job.

Starting point is 00:01:56 I'm like, yeah, he does. Come on, Nicole. That's awesome. It's been so fun, man. I mean, the journey and the people I work with, I know we'll get into all that. But it has been a true blessing, man. And it cannot be more excited, more thankful, more grateful for where I am and excited to chop it up with you today. Yeah, man.

Starting point is 00:02:16 Well, let's set the table for everybody, Eric. Eric's, you know, don't let him be humble. He was a big time college athlete. But I want him to tell you his story. And then we'll get into, man, the game's changed a lot. Those few years, it had been long since you left there. But we'll get into it. I want to talk to NIL, some of the business stuff.

Starting point is 00:02:38 But let's set the table and let you kind of give a little bit of that backstory for everybody. Yeah, no doubt, man. You're absolutely right. The game, you know, it feels like I played 100 years ago, you know, not eight or nine, whatever it's been, getting closer to 10 by the day. But, yeah, so it's funny, man, my whole life, I grew up. wanted to be a basketball guy. You know, it's just, it was my first love, my true love, and just had such a knack for the sport. I'm a shooter, you know, I love to flick that thing.

Starting point is 00:03:07 And, you know, just, just stay on the court. I mean, for hours. I mean, my brother and friends and family members, that's all we would do growing up. You know, don't come home until the lights are off, you know, the sun goes down because we're out shooting hoops. And, you know, it was funny in a world now where I feel like everybody is so specialized, like you kind of pick, you know, that choice was kind of made for me because I always had aspirations to try to make it, not just to college, which is obviously a big deal and to have your school paid for and the doors that that will open, but, you know, professionally, I just always felt like that was my thing.

Starting point is 00:03:40 I was going to do that and thought it would be the NBA. And, you know, it was funny. In high school, I stopped growing this way and started going out and started, you know, getting muscle and these type of things. So I was like, eh, basketball, this might be the end of the road. know varsity basketball might be the top for me. And, you know, so it was funny, that decision kind of made. And then you really hone in, you know, on your sport.

Starting point is 00:04:03 And obviously, you know, that's the future. So you give it so much attention and love and dedication. And, you know, for me, that was football. So, you know, really my junior year of high school is when we started cranking that way up. But I do have to go back a couple of years because I grew up a Tennessee fan, volunteers, any balls listening. That's where I always wanted to go. Peyton Manning, Coach Palmer, Eric Barry,

Starting point is 00:04:25 these guys. And most of my family went to Tennessee. So it was really normal for me to want to do that. And actually received a scholarship and committed as a ninth grader in high school to Tennessee to play football. Fast forward. Philip Fulmer gets fired. Fast forward even more. Lane Kiffin comes in. And it just was such a culture shock. It was so different that I just didn't want any part of it. And it broke my heart because that's where I want to go my whole life. run out of the tea, be in Knoxville, do all these things. And it just so happens, talk about relationships and communicating all these different things in the business world that are so applicable.

Starting point is 00:05:05 I got a crash course of that as a 15-year-old kid because one of the coaches that was on staff to Tennessee that I'd known for a long time, you know, got hired by Clemson. My coach Davos Swinney. His name's Dan Brooks was one of the best defensive line coaches ever. And so after I decommitted, you know, he hits me up and he says, you know, Big Mac, it's Dan, it's Coach Brooks. And I'm at Clemson now. I was like, Coach, what's up?

Starting point is 00:05:30 This is all I hadn't heard from him. You know, he was very respectful, did not hit me up until after I had be committed. And he's like, oh, I'm at Clemson. Da, da, da, da. I'm like, Clemson. I legitimately, Ryan, had no clue what or where Clemson was. Had zero clue. I grew up in SEC country.

Starting point is 00:05:47 My grandmother and her side of the family went to Alabama. Her husband and my mom and all of them went to Tennessee. Oh, my God. I did not know that about you. I didn't remember that. Maybe we had that discussion. Because you always seemed like a Clemson guy. You know, when I first met you, I'm like, this guy is a Clemson man right here.

Starting point is 00:06:04 And, you know, so he's telling me then. He's like, oh, come, come check it out. And I'm like, where is it? What are you? You know, all these different things. He's like, well, we're in South Carolina. We're in the ACC. And I said, whoa, no, heck no.

Starting point is 00:06:19 Like, I'm not doing that. And which is so comical now looking back at it all. And, you know, so finally, fast forward a year almost. He hits me up again. He says, just come by and visit. I think you'll like, you know, what you see. So now I'm going into my senior year, you know, kind of the end of my junior year. And we do it.

Starting point is 00:06:36 We go and see it. And, you know, we're coming off the highway 85 on 19B right there. We're seeing the pauporins, the sun's setting. So, you know, it's purple and orange. I'm like, where the heck, this is great. This is perfect. Yeah. And, you know, it's just this dream situation.

Starting point is 00:06:51 Well, all the other schools that I had been to are in these big cities. You know, it's when you look at, you know, like Columbus and Knoxville and Auburn's pretty similar. But, you know, all these different schools, there's these big cities kind of around there. Clemson, it's farm. It's farm town. You know what I'm saying? And little towns. And so we're passing like this sunflower patch right on perimeter.

Starting point is 00:07:14 And we're looking at the Tom Tom, Tom, the GPS, whatever. And you always says you're a minute away. I'm like, there is nothing. Where is a stadium about to come out of here? And I'm getting, I'm just talking about it right now. But, you know, when you make that turn on perimeter and then Death Valley just rips out of those trees, man. And I'm just like, whoa, this is cool. Like, this is nuts.

Starting point is 00:07:35 And it's obviously a big stadium. And then I meet Coach Sweeney. And I mean, you talk about a no-name guy, never been a coordinator, was a head coach for maybe a half the season and was in the midst of a losing season, something of that nature. And so had no like no type of oh my god, that's Davo type thing yet. And but when I met him, man, in the passion, the enthusiasm, the genuine love for his players in the game of football, I was like, this is different. You know, this is different from anything I had ever seen before. And it was so infectious, man, that literally in a two-day span, I was like, I'll do anything for that guy. Like I want to play for him right now. And so it was, it's so.

Starting point is 00:08:21 comical to me that we think that we have our plan and you know god kind of has his plan and i never even knew where this place was man and in an instant i knew i wanted to spend the rest of my life there and uh it was so powerful just to have that kind of conviction and to know that guy and then to see where it grew and went on so you know the rest is kind of history with that but it's it's a wild story how i even got to start you know at clemson university yeah and it's crazy because i mean you started tight in right then you go tight I'm going to take little leaner when I came to campus. Yeah, you know, tie it in, catch him, they could block, catch some balls.

Starting point is 00:08:57 That's right, because he's big polls. Yeah, yeah, you're going to catch some balls and then go on to be a pretty dominant O-Londman before it was all said and done. What was your final, what was your last year at Clemson? 15. Yeah, I got a silver medal. Yeah. Dude, you needed one more year. Where's your COVID year or whatever you needed?

Starting point is 00:09:17 I was just before my time and everything I did. Clemson, man. Yeah, if you're listening, Clemson won the national title in 2016. So that table got set by Eric McLean, you know, so. I'll tell myself that at least. I'll spread that story, you know, we'll go with it. Yeah. What was, all right, let's, you know, we'll close out the Clemson years. But what's like one of the most memorable games, memorable moments,

Starting point is 00:09:50 you know what what sticks in your head i mean i know i'm sure there's a lot of different things but like is there like a moment a game or something that just when you have when you get asked this question now it like pops to the top there's two there's two there are two and one is obviously that national championship game you know losing to alabama yeah just because we got there right we got to the mountain top and it was something that you know i think every little kid dreams about as they're running around playing in their backyard of playing in a national championship, winning it, hopefully. And, you know, for us just to do what we did at Clemson and to get to that mountain, to change the culture and what we had done the previous years to get

Starting point is 00:10:32 there was just special. And, you know, something that, you know, we always thought was possible. That's why, you know, my 2011 class came there and really was kind of that building block. A lot of those guys, what we were able to do on top of who Alabama was. and what they were doing. I mean, you're talking about peak dominance. I mean, these guys had just been wrecking people, winning all these national championships. And we went into the game as heavy underdogs.

Starting point is 00:10:59 And I remember reading and hearing all the talk about how our offensive line was going to get just destroyed. And of course, being an offensive line, and you take that very personal. And we dominated. And I just knew that going into the game, it was like, Ryan, if I make one mistake, even if I step the wrong way,

Starting point is 00:11:20 I'm going to get abused by this guy. Like I'm going to get absolutely ruined. So it just made you play so much better. I think that was my best game by far too. Just kind of all that on the line there. And, you know, just being there. And the last one ever was truly amazing. On a more positive note,

Starting point is 00:11:36 my other favorite is that Notre Dame game. Pretty personal game for me. That's where my father is from up there. He grew up a Golden Domer, love Notre Dame. And, you know, a lot of our family members, either love them or hate them that are up there because it's kind of 50-50. And so once I knew they were on the schedule and it was my senior year, I was like, this is going to be a party.

Starting point is 00:11:56 B-Y-O-G, baby. Was that B-Y-O-G? Okay. It's all of it. It's all of it. And, you know, the hurricane, everything that had, you know, to do with them. South Carolina was in a state of emergency. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:08 He said Clemson's playing ball. All right. I was sitting in the stands. I've never been more wet in my entire life. I didn't get up the entire time. I'm sure your boots is still soaked, man. Oh, dude, my rain gear has never been the same. But I sat there and cheered you on.

Starting point is 00:12:23 I was like. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So that one was a lot of fun. And just the way it ended. I mean, a goal line stand. And I've got this really cool picture of just me and my brother.

Starting point is 00:12:34 My brother played on the team as well, walk on wide receiver, of us just embracing on the field. So just a lot of great memories from that one. Oh, yeah. Ben Bullware and company making the stop there on the goal line. that was memorable and, God, a nasty game. I've never been so happy and miserable in my whole life. If we'd have lost, I was sitting there going,

Starting point is 00:12:56 I don't know that I let it creep in my head. I think I thought about it after. I was like, I was in elation and happy, but I knew I've been soaked for four hours or five hours. And if we had lost, wow, this is really a stunk, like to sat in this rain. But, God, that's what a fan does. You know, it's funny about sitting there. about being there for five hours. We knew

Starting point is 00:13:17 like all day leading up to it that it was going to be bad, like raining and horrible and the state of emergency announcement, all these things. So we fully expected to come around that stadium and it'd be like half full. And brother, that was not even close to the case. We got even more people there. And I think the rain just like juiced y'all up. That was one of the craziest loud games I'd ever been a part of. It was nuts. Nuts. It was completely nuts. And I was there actually there with my father-in-law, Nicole's dad.

Starting point is 00:13:48 And we were the two sitting there, and we were just sitting there, like, just, I mean, buttoned up, like, look, you know, we're staring each other. Like, it's just, I mean, it was just, because you've called to those games where, you know, sprinkles or whatever. And it's just dumping rain the entire time. But, uh, B-Y-O-G, that was one of Dabo's favorite quotes. Bring your own guts, baby. I actually got it right here.

Starting point is 00:14:08 I got a prop. This was unpropted, but I got it right here on my desk. Yes. Boom. I love it. I love it. But, uh,

Starting point is 00:14:17 Hey man. I mean, it's, so it's been a whirlwind. You know, you're badass at Clemson. Yeah. You,

Starting point is 00:14:23 you set up, you set the table for the, for the, you know, the national title or 2016. Now, I mean, you're a big dog.

Starting point is 00:14:32 You're an ACC network on TV. You got your own podcast. I'm like, my boy, my boy's like, dog grows up. He's making it. So,

Starting point is 00:14:43 what's that been like, man? What's, what's the professional journey been like kind of getting to this point? Yeah, no, it was crazy, man, because I talk about, you know, those pro aspirations and something that really, you know, my whole career, I still thought would happen, you know, even changing positions and playing a position I never played in my life and then thinking, you know, okay, you're going to go to the NFL and do this.

Starting point is 00:15:05 I never had a doubt that I would and, you know, kind of make that next step. But like I said, there are different plans that happened. And so, you know, right after I start training and, you know, go and do all the different things and don't get picked up in the draft, which was brutal. I don't know if you've ever talked to anybody that's never been drafted. Yeah. But you get your whole family there. You're at the house. People are, and I'm hearing stuff.

Starting point is 00:15:30 Like, I'm thinking it's going to happen. And, you know, you got everybody there, man. And there is nothing more like embarrassing, saddening, make you angry, like all these different things because that phone don't ring. and all those people just like now well you know we we just were with you for you know all this time now what and dude that was not it wasn't a dark time because um you know i would always have a plan like what's next type of deal um but it was i mean it was a flash in the bottle like oh my gosh this is miserable you would think they'd have a way to to buy i've talked to a couple guys now about that very thing and i've watched i mean nothing worse than the what the green room thing where they sat there and they haven't they haven't told them to buy that's I mean, like, that's it times a thousand. Like, but it's the same thing. It might, I don't know if that's worse or better than you're sitting there and you got your 50 friends over and it's like, you would think they could throw you a bone. Like, like every team could at least go, you know, like you could go, am I going to, it was, especially if you're seventh round.

Starting point is 00:16:32 It's not like it shouldn't be that much intel at that point. I wouldn't think. Like, are you, like, you signed some agreement that you won't tell anyone so they don't. Right. And so like, so that you don't like over. plan for it. Couldn't they do that? It was nice to know. It's crazy is we actually got a, I got a call from the Cowboys in the fifth round. They were probably five,

Starting point is 00:16:54 six picks away, which would have been a great spot. I mean, there's a lot of money in the fifth round and, you know, Dallas would have been amazing. And I get a call from, I believe it was the Offensive Line Coach. It's been, you know, suppressed out of my memory now. And he calls, he says, hey, man, we love you. You know, if we take an offensive line here, you're the guy. and I'm freaking out. I'm like, this is amazing. And then Nicole never comes. They take like a cornerback and the rest of the draft.

Starting point is 00:17:19 You know, I maybe had one thing in the seventh. And then that was it. And you're just like, what happened? Because it's even more awkward because a lot of those guys, you know, some people kind of like what you said, they go into it and have these kind of free agent things already signed. Well, I did.

Starting point is 00:17:35 So you're talking about a full 24 hours of silence. And I'm just like, it's crazy. Like, do I just move on? Like is this is this it? This is over? And, you know, so the next day, I hear from the Panthers. You know, we do like the mini camp thing, go up there. And I'm excited, right?

Starting point is 00:17:51 Because it's right here, hometown. My wife, that's like her favorite team and her family's favorite teams. This is awesome. This is going to be a cool, you know, kind of story to tell. Man, I get up there and they had drafted a first round defensive end, defensive tackle kind of guy. And in the first, spent a lot of money on them. I go up there and, dude, I kill that.

Starting point is 00:18:09 Like, I'm just murdering them. one-on-one pass rush, all these different drills. I'm like, I'm feeling great. And, you know, I'm thinking clearly making this team. And they kind of have a meeting with a lot of guys in there. And they say, hey, you know, we're so sorry the way the numbers are. You know, we've got to cut you, but we want you guys to say healthy. And I'm looking around like, no way.

Starting point is 00:18:29 Like, this is, there's nothing else I could have done. There's no way I could have done better. And, you know, so then I have kind of a one-on-one meeting with the GM and the offensive line coach. And they're like, hey, man. you know we really like you uh it's just a numbers thing we need this position we don't need but stay healthy keep working out maybe by week like seven or eight we'll call you if somebody gets hurt and i'm just like that's not how this is about so i can either sign right now rachel so to this day so to this day can you say i mean do you you know sometimes we think about things in the moment then

Starting point is 00:19:03 you think about law and up but to this day do you feel like you more than like we're better than maybe guys that are that were making the team. Oh, yeah. And I mean, you're a badass. Like, I mean, it does surprise me to hear that. Like, no, but you were a great player. I mean, it's like, you know, anybody that doesn't know, Eric McLean was a badass offensive lineman.

Starting point is 00:19:20 So like, and let me tell you this, though, this, I'll take it a step further. Guys that I'm covering right now in my job, I see them at the next level. I'm like, bro. How did I not make this? This is crazy. So, but they gave you, but they gave you nothing like, no one to this day is really giving you like. The timing.

Starting point is 00:19:38 Okay. Just the timing thing. Yeah. Just the timing thing. And so I reversed it on them though, because, you know, I'm about to get married. I'm not, number one, just sitting around not being paid. Yeah. And number two, I'm not going to jump all across the country on some practice squad hoping

Starting point is 00:19:54 and praying something to happen. Yeah. So I kind of flipped it on them and said, here's the deal. I'll sign right now and this will be great or I'm just, I'm done. And they were shocked, man. They're like, what? Like, what are you talking about? No way?

Starting point is 00:20:05 I said, yeah, that's kind of how it is. and they said, well, we're sorry. So I walked out of that thing, man, and I called my wife first. And, you know, she's devastated because obviously that's what we've done, you know, my whole life, her whole life, too. Her dad grew up playing football or brother plays football. So our lives have been football. And so it obviously very sad for me.

Starting point is 00:20:25 And then just kind of the what's next thing. The next call is to my parents. And then the third one is to Graham Neff at Clemson. And I kind of say, hey, I just got cut. I'm done. I want to finish my master's. And I don't want to pay for it. And he said, we'll see on Monday.

Starting point is 00:20:40 We'll figure it out. And that was kind of the beginning of business, Eric McLean. I had not fully, I think I knew the Panthers thing, but I'd not fully know, like, that you didn't, like, seek out other things. And, like, that you just kind of drew it. It was just like, well, but Eric, look, it's proven out how talented you are on and off the field. No, I'm saying I'm going to brag for you. Like, you know, and I think, you know, some people don't know that they have other options.

Starting point is 00:21:12 And I think, you know, you had dabbled in some things and, you know, shown your worth on and off the field in building relationships, being good at speaking with people. And, you know, just overall, I don't know, acumen for how to be a business person. And I think that superseded any ability on the field. So I think that set you up. And you knew that on some level. Right. And maybe that and just pride and stubbornness combined. Who knows?

Starting point is 00:21:42 That's right. We all know who that is. I got the T-shirt and the, you know, the lashings and everything else to go with it. But, uh, 100%. I mean, so, but no other, did other teams ever call? Did everybody ever did it? One team called in, uh, in September. And, uh, it was actually the Tennessee Titans, which would have been great, too, being from

Starting point is 00:22:00 Tennessee. And, uh, yeah, I told them, I told them, I'm done. And they were just to, just a, shocked through. They're like, are you kidding me? I say, yeah, just take me off the list, man. It's all good. It's crazy. But, you know, I think you knew, you know, maybe you wanted to do what you're doing. You knew there was a, I will say, I will say, there was, maybe not right in that moment, but maybe a week or so later. There was almost a freedom of it, you know, because that's how you had been identified, how I had been identified my whole life. Oh, it's a football.

Starting point is 00:22:29 This is Eric the football player. You know, and when that, there was something about that chapter being closed and not, you know, just identifying like that, which I never did personally, because there's so much more to life, but, you know, not having that. But then it is, you know, funny. That game will always pull you back. You're always right back in it somewhere or another. Well, now you, you know, now you're there. So where did we go from there and what got you all the way to today?

Starting point is 00:22:58 Yeah, yeah, crazy. So did the graduate, you know, assistantship with Clemson was kind of with football and basketball and baseball with a bunch of different things there. So having that evening, I was on that team just in a different capacity. So I did that for about nine months. And then a new venture was coming to Clemson in JMI Sports. I'm not sure if you ever ran across with those guys. So I sold for them for really like two and a half years or so maybe, which was, you know, it was funny at the time, Graham or excuse me, Dan Radikovic called me in his office and just was like, hey, you know, this is happening.

Starting point is 00:23:34 We think it would be a really good kind of foundational piece for you because he knew I wanted to go into college athletics from the administrative route. We think you should take it. It's a sales role, blah, blah, blah. You kind of see a different vantage point that a lot of people don't with these multimedia rights. And so at the time, I was just like, maybe.

Starting point is 00:23:54 And he's like, no, I really think you should do it. So I go and do it kind of hesitantly. And, man, that has been one of the biggest blessings of my life. because the foundational, it was basically another grad school, right, a real life degree where I'm learning how to sell, I'm learning marketing, I'm learning law and contracts and how to just sit and have a meeting, how to set up a meeting, you know, with somebody and had a cold call,

Starting point is 00:24:18 like all these attributes that, you know, we teach and coach, you know, when you're in school, but, you know, to have this real life learning for two years and some change has been an unbelievable foundation for me that I still use to this day, with the podcast and you see this sponsor right behind me with Ingalls and, you know, all these different things that I never would have ever thought about taking that route if it wasn't placed, you know, kind of in my way there. So I'm forever grateful for that time. And, you know, it's such a fun piece that I can pull from and learnings and different things that we did there.

Starting point is 00:24:50 So did that for about two years in Greenville. And then our national championship season in 18 where we're just killing everybody, kicking everybody's tail. We're out in California for the Natty. And, you know, we went a couple of days early as a family and we're doing all these different things. And kind of within that, I had been doing the fifth quarter show for Clemson, which is a radio show after the game, 90 minutes. You know, you're talking about all different kinds of things. So I kind of dip back into, you know, a little bit of media there on top of my sales stuff. So I was out there for that as well, but also just as a fan. So, you know, we're out and about with the family and doing all these things. And I get a call from a guy and, you know,

Starting point is 00:25:30 answer say hey you know how you doing this is this is so and so from from ESPN and all I'm thinking is you know he wants an interview you know he wants to talk yeah game you know me being a former captain playing in a national championship and I had done a lot of that uh with various outlets leading up so I'm like hey you know what's up and they're like hey we're out in california are you here we'd love to meet up talk about the game and I was like oh man we're in san francisco you know maybe talk to you later kind of blow him off yeah next day you know text me hey are you at the hotel which it was our hotel but I wasn't there. Like, hey, can you, can you come to the lobby?

Starting point is 00:26:02 Would love to talk again. I'm like, no, I'm in Carmel. Sorry, see you later. You know, so I'm blowing this person off thinking that it's a writer or thinking it's a TV person, whatever. And, you know, so then fast forward to Monday, the game. He goes, hey, I know you're going to the game. Can we meet up at the game somewhere?

Starting point is 00:26:19 And so now I'm kind of like, this is weird. Like, why does this person keep texting? You know, it's so strange. And I was like, hey, can you get, I'm kind of testing them, right? Yeah. Like, hey, can you get on the field? like let's meet on the field, seeing if they're really ESPN or not. And they're like, oh, that's perfect.

Starting point is 00:26:33 I'm like, okay, this is legit. And, you know, so I text them. They're saying, hey, we're wrapping up TV. I'll come over there in a second. So I'm like, okay, this is, you know, I don't know who you're, because I can't, I've Googled this person's name. It's nowhere. I'm like, who the heck is this?

Starting point is 00:26:46 And so then they're, I called them when they say they're walking over because I don't see anybody who I think I'm looking for. And I see a person answer their phone. He's in like khaki pants, an untuckie pants, an untuck polo a vest on and I'm like there is no way this person was just on TV like what is happening this is so weird uh and they come over shake my hand you act like we're you know best friends all this stuff very personable and starts asking me all these questions about the game like what do I think's going to happen da da da da and they're not writing anything down because again now I'm thinking

Starting point is 00:27:19 they're a writer they're not on TV they're a writer not writing anything down not recording anything and I'm getting kind of mad right because I'm like I want to go tailgate with my family what are we doing here. You're in a job interview and you don't even know it. Right. I'm killing me. I'm just ruining the interview. And Ben,

Starting point is 00:27:36 this guy hits me with a very transitional matter of fact. So there's going to be some new opportunity coming with ESPN. We would like to fly you up to Bristol next week and see if you want to be a part of the team. And bro, I blacked out. Did you fall down or did you? Like, what are you talking about? And totally, I don't even know what I said.

Starting point is 00:27:57 I guess I said yes because I was on the plane. And it was so crazy because I was so happy. You know, we're in Greenville. We're doing our thing and all this stuff, not looking for anything. And again, you know, God just put something in your path. And, you know, my wife and I were, this isn't real life. And I would have done it no matter what. But it obviously made a lot of sense for a lot of different reasons.

Starting point is 00:28:21 And man, fast forward, this is my fifth football season. And the relationships that I've created, the brothers that I work with, it's truly, I literally have to pinch myself at times to hope that I'm not about to wake up. But it's incredible, you know, to be able to do this. Yeah, man. If you watch football at all, you've probably caught Eric on the ACC network, you know, with Mark Richt and who else is on your regular show? You got the quarterback, EMAX, that's right. Yeah, EJ. Eddie Royal played at Virginia Tech. That's right.

Starting point is 00:28:57 host is Kelsey Riggs. Kelsey. Yes, yes. You guys are doing a great job. It's, uh, I, but it's, it's interesting. You know, the ACC network just got started like when you, you were like at the ground up. The production quality is increased every year. Like it's like it now start, it now feels kind of like a growing up show.

Starting point is 00:29:15 I mean, I, you know, I mean, and I don't even mean that disrespectfully. It's like everything takes time. But like, I think, it's, but it's, but now it's like all the promos, everything seems a little tighter and better and like the team you guys are all riffed off each other good you got good chemistry you know it's fun what what's what's marked like mark like you know he's the best he really is and you know it's it is um i'm very grateful that we had our early years that i met him you know before uh he was announced and and with parkinson's and yeah obviously that has taken a toll on him but he he's truly one of a kind as a human being i mean it has been

Starting point is 00:29:56 such a great example for me as a young man, especially more at the first time I met him, just how to love your wife, man, how to care for her, your children, how to be a great dad. And, you know, it has been an unbelievable example, you know, for me. And I hope he knows that. I tell him it all the time. I'm sure he does.

Starting point is 00:30:17 And then to develop, you know, as friends and to, you know, text and call and, you know, hang out outside of work, you know, with one another. and that goes for our whole team. It's truly amazing. But he's one of the best, man. Witty has all get out, has created,

Starting point is 00:30:33 not just learn, has created more football. And when you talk about offenses, then I'll ever even know and is just truly one of a kind human being. So he makes us better, man, and it's a joy to work with him every Saturday. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:30:46 he seems kind of like the Wiley just, he's over there sitting there and you're like, yeah, he's got kind of like, but he still looks so young, you know, so like, I know how old.

Starting point is 00:30:55 he is. I know like, but he's, you know, he's the Wiley veteran kind of sitting there, like, letting you guys cordulating the thoughts and he's got, but he knows, because he's, you know, lived and breathed it for so long. No, but he's, I've always, I've never met him, but I've just everybody lights up when they talk about him, like in, in that positive way, just that he's a great guy. And he's been a part of some great stuff. I mean, you talk about Florida State back in the 90s. I mean, pretty much inventing the fast break, you know, offense for football. Georgia the things he was able to do and, you know, to bring Miami back to it to a respectable kind of point there. He's, he's done it all, man. He's a cool cat. Yes, exactly. And you'll understand

Starting point is 00:31:37 this because you got them behind you, but I have to pause to give a little shout out to one of our sponsors, Caldera Lab. Hey, Eric, I'm 46, baby. I can't, you know, I can't, I don't have that baby face like you anymore. I got to, I have to have my products, you know? That's right. So Caldera Lab, The premium men's skin care delivered right to your home, the official skin care provider of the Radcast. And Ryan offered, use Rad Ryan. You'll get 20% off. And, you know, I'm trying to keep up with Eric and, you know, removing my ears.

Starting point is 00:32:09 So, you got it. You got it. Yes, caldera lab.com, official skincare provider of me. And follow me on social media. You'll learn more about Caldera Lab. We're doing all kinds of fun things with partnership. Transitioning back, Eric, I mean, so. Now you've got the podcast, you had Kelly, you know, I know you talked about that being a little bit more of the entrepreneurial, you know, probably changing your path.

Starting point is 00:32:33 You probably use all your skill sets that you learned on that job you're talking about the marketing, the contracts and all that. Talk about the podcast a little bit. Oh, man, it's been incredible. You know, and it's so funny. Kelly and I have known each other since we, you know, both started at Clemson. You know, and again, me being a hooper, you know, I was kind of gravitating towards the basketball. team at times, especially summer. You know, we're the only people up there. There's no, you know, it's just athletes on campus. And so you all kind of mixed together, especially that freshman

Starting point is 00:33:03 class. We're the same age. And, you know, I just love to hoop. And so, you know, kind of met her through that. And, you know, our friendship really developed. And, you know, then it really, you know, took it to another level when we both kind of got done with Clemson and got into the media world. her obviously starting at CCP had written for Clemson and done a bunch of stuff there. And then when the network launched, I called my guy right. I mean, I don't even know this cat, but I call him and say, hey, I know we need basketball people. Go get Kelly Graham. Like she's unbelievable.

Starting point is 00:33:37 Played, great shooter, all these things, meet all the qualifications. And, you know, obviously they did that and she's been a home run. But we've always wanted to do or we always wanted to do something together, whether it was radio, try to do some type of TV show, something. And then as we kind of were brainstorming that after our first full season with ESPN, the world shuts down. COVID happens. You know, and we're just like, what the heck do we do?

Starting point is 00:34:02 You know, what are we going to figure out? How can we do this, this and that? And we're like, let's just do a podcast. And so we took about probably two to three months, man, of just planning. Like we knew we were going to do it. How do we want to lay it out? I need artwork. We need show title, all these different things.

Starting point is 00:34:18 so that when we start, you know, it looks like we've been doing this for a while. So that was October of 20. Now fast forward, you know, three, four football seasons. We're in 23. And, you know, it's funny. I kind of told her, I don't know if we'll make money off this. I think that we can sell it, you know, kind of with my background. And, you know, we, funny, funny enough, we got a sponsor probably within three months,

Starting point is 00:34:41 sunshine beverage. I'll never forget them. Our first ever guys there out of, you know, Winston, Salem, North Carolina. and that's when I was like, okay, this can be for real. Like we can do some cool stuff. If we continue to grow our celebrity on TV and we mash that together and something that we can control and sell,

Starting point is 00:34:59 there's something really cool here. To now we have a multi-year deal with Ingalls. They've been an unbelievable sponsor. There's still room to add other things. We didn't, you know, totally exclusive, exclusivity and, you know, kind of map it out there. So that has been so much fun and to just see how it grows. I mean, I know you know all of this as well.

Starting point is 00:35:17 with what you're doing. But we went from, you know, doing stuff over Zoom to doing stuff over Riverside, just audio, to then saying, well, why the heck aren't we tapping into this video element into that? And then just now it's it's all about the growth and the guests and how can we, you know, magnify this thing even more with social media. So it's been a lot of fun to see it grow, man. Yeah, man.

Starting point is 00:35:38 You guys are doing a great job. What would you call the overall topics? Like, you know, for me of my listening that might want to check it out. Like what are you got? What's the overall subject matter of the show? Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, really, we started as trying to be kind of a subset of Packer and Durham. Like we wanted to be, you know, kind of the all-ACC sports. You know, we're going to talk about all that from our perspective, a little bit younger,

Starting point is 00:36:04 having played, you know, obviously at that level. And so that's what we really, that's what we started year one. And what we found, man, is when we got to like, uh shoot February or March and if we did like one spring football episode it's spiked like crazy like the viewership the numbers were nuts and it's not just Clemson football this is you know all acc football and so that summer man we had a big conversation and we're just like I look I know you play basketball I know you love basketball I think we should move this to just an ACC football podcast and funny funny she had no hesitation she's like I agree I mean I see

Starting point is 00:36:45 these numbers too. And so that's what we do, man. College football, with a primary focus on ACC football during the year. We go three episodes a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, kind of in the spring season, off season. We do two a week. And that's all kind of NFL combine, spring ball, things that are happening. And then really around May, May to July, we go one episode, and it's a big guess. Like we're trying to have a heavy hitter, you know, a Kirk Herb Street type, somebody in the sports area. and those have been unbelievable too. The people that we've met and stories we've told there have been a lot of fun.

Starting point is 00:37:21 Yeah, so anybody out there that follows ACC football, or if you don't, you need to, come on in, check out Eric and Kelly's show. You know, you'll love, if you love watching Eric and you're listening to him now, he is one of the nicest guys in the industry, and we need to give him some love. So go boost some numbers over there on Eric. and Kelly's show. The, but hey, hey, man, you know, everybody, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:51 talk about a little about, like, your professional journey and what you've done. And, you know, like, a lot of people here think about sports and working in sports and, like, what it takes to do that, you know, like, you, I remember growing up thinking, oh, I'd love to work in sports and all that sort of thing. Like, now that you do it for a profession and, you know, you're becoming a pro, you know, or a pro, you know, like, what's, what's been, maybe like the biggest aha transition like or surprise in what it takes to to be a pro in this arena like what do you feel like has maybe been the most eye opening or you know something that people

Starting point is 00:38:30 maybe not realize how much film you have to watch like think about it like this man when i was a player i watched one team every week and that's it you know i focus on south carolina and i'm going to know everything that they do in this role, especially it's a little bit easier for me because I'm a conference affiliated network. I have to watch all 14 schools each and every week and know what they're doing, why they're doing it. And then here's the kicker. If they're playing out of conference, then I have to watch 28 schools. And so it's just, it's a lot of time, man. And I think the, I think the most interesting thing about that, that was the initial like, okay, you got to hunker down and really, you know, if you want to be great, you know, I can now I could be good.

Starting point is 00:39:15 and talk about ball and what we did back in the day and all these different things. But if I want to tell you what these teams are doing and what they're going to do or what I think they're going to do, that takes some real effort. But I'll tell you, the biggest kind of growing piece for me was going into year three coming kind of out of COVID, if we're out now. I don't know if we are or aren't. Yeah. It's hard.

Starting point is 00:39:36 No. Time management. Yeah, right. Time management thing of I don't have to cram all of this right now at this time for two reasons. Number one, you're going to burn out and you're just going to be exhausted. Number two, things change so much with transfer portal with all these different things to where, hey, if I cram for the year in July, come September, these guys that I just studied might not even be on the team. You know what I'm saying? So it's all this wasted world to get ahead to where you've got to

Starting point is 00:40:05 really, you've got to segment it out and you have to understand the ebbs and flows of the season and the changes that can be had. And, you know, I think that that balance really started to come into my life and being able to find that going into the third season. And that's what I people don't realize, like, how much a pro, like, Eric and these guys are. I mean, he's an analyst. And, like, you know, and I think if I say that about stocks, then I think you think like something else. But no, these guys are putting the work in. Like, they don't just, you know, turn the camera on and Eric magically can, like, look at the film while he's talking and go, oh, yeah, that's what they're running.

Starting point is 00:40:42 And that's that guy's name. And I know who, that he just had an issue that his father was having, like, it takes work, man. I mean, you know, it doesn't just come. And I think that's where, you know, you're really starting to shine as a pro with your analysis. And, hey, man, we might have to have a part two. But I do before, I know we only got just a few minutes of your time left. Well, NIL, man, I know we can't cover it in three minutes. But, like, you know, is it good, bad, or indifferent?

Starting point is 00:41:11 Is it the Wild West? I mean, what's your perspective? the way that it is right now and the way that there are different rules for different states, there's different rules for different institutions, there's different rules, just wherever you are, regionally, I think it's terrible for where we are. We either need, you know, kind of national, federal rules or we need no rules. Like, it can't be this weird middle ground that we are, because number one, it's not fair. You know, different schools are held to different standards.

Starting point is 00:41:43 have different resources and are allowed to do different things and, you know, all these different things. And I think it's, number one, how do you keep track of it? You know, it's crazy to do that. The lack of monitoring is baffling to me. And really where it is right now, Ryan, is not at all how it was presented in regards to this, this is what happens now. If you're ex-player, you come to me, whether you're a recruit or a transfer, you come to me as the head coach and say, I need 50, to come here. Like what? They'll find it.

Starting point is 00:42:16 That's the principle. The principle to me is I have the right to sell my name. I have the right to go fund when I can chase it. I can sign with an agent. I can get it done. Not here's my hand, fill it up with money. That's not the thing to me. Now, if you want to go out and sell and have conversations and hold camps and use your

Starting point is 00:42:35 social media, that's amazing. But that's not the case, man. And it's baffling to me. I've heard horror stories on both sides. from the player that's done all this stuff with their social media and hasn't gotten paid. And also from the companies that have paid these players up front. And when it comes time for content or it comes times to activation, players nowhere to be found. So it's a tough spot right now.

Starting point is 00:42:59 Obviously, the haves and have-nots are just even furthering away from each other. I hope that we can get some type of federal help here just to play everybody to play by the same rules. That's all I want. That's all I think that's fair for everybody. we'll see if that happens. We'll see if it happens. Well said, you know, it's complicated, but I don't think it has to be quite the wild,

Starting point is 00:43:23 wild rest and complicated as it is. I think it could be simplified. So hopefully we get there. Eric, where can everybody keep up? I mean, all I do is turn to the ACC Network. They're going to see your grill right there shining, going saying something smart, saying something funny. But where can everybody keep up with you, brother?

Starting point is 00:43:40 Yeah, I appreciate you, man. anywhere on social media, man, Instagram, Twitter, Eric McLean right there. And then the podcast, Gremlin and McLean, wherever. We prefer YouTube, get those numbers up, baby. But it's wherever you can find it. You just want to listen to in the car on Apple Podcasts, you know, Spotify, all those things. And of course, ESPN and ACC Network. We have a good time, man.

Starting point is 00:44:01 And I appreciate you. This was so much fun, man. Yeah. I know. I think we would have to have like a quarterly McLean, you know, maybe we'll make it, whatever it is. like we'll talk football, we'll talk, you know, whatever the heck's happened. Being a dad, and then you got a beautiful daughter and appreciate you from coming on.

Starting point is 00:44:20 Hey guys, you know where to find us, the radcast.com. Search for Eric McLean. You'll find all the holiday clips today. We'll have links to the MacLane podcast, the Grandmicking MacLane podcast, all of Eric's stuff. And you know to find me. I'm at Ryan offered that blue part check mark way before you could buy it. We'll see you next time on the Radcast. watch full episodes, visit us on the web at theradcast.com or follow us on social media at our

Starting point is 00:44:48 Instagram account, the.rad.d.com or at Ryan Alford. Stay radical. Dreaming of blissful summer days and creamy popsicles capture sun-drenched memories with the orange vanilla dream hydration multiplier from liquid IV. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water can help hydrate you better than water alone. Live your summer dream with liquid IV. Tear, poor, live more. Go to liquid ivy.com and get 20% off your first order with code indulge 20 at checkout.

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