Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice - Why Podcasting Is Like Dating: Finding The Right Match For Your Brand | Spencer Carpenter

Starting point is 00:00:00 There's so many people that say, Groo's got a podcast now, it seems saturated. Okay, well, are books no longer coming out? Are you no longer making Instagram profiles? I mean, it's just one more thing, but it's something that I think is way more valuable than a lot of the rest. This is right about now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production.

Starting point is 00:00:20 We are the number one business show on the planet with over one million downloads a month. Taking the BS out of business for over six years in over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping next and cash and checks? Well, it starts right about now. What's up guys? Welcome to Right About Now.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Hey, we're taking the BS out of business, baby. One step at a time. You know, we like podcasts around here. It might be self-serving a bit, but we believe in them. We love them. So we want to bring you, you know, guests. that talk about the medium. There's a lot of things that go into podcasting,

Starting point is 00:01:04 and there's a lot of things behind the scenes that people don't know. There's things about the power of podcasting, booking guests, the influence that it can have, and really where the state of the medium is. And I'm pumped today because we've got Spencer Carpenter. He is the founder of Outlier Audio. And, hey, I've just, learned a serial entrepreneur. What's up, Spencer?

Starting point is 00:01:32 Hey, thanks so much for having me. Hey, I'm glad you could make it in to G Vegas. Yeah, yeah. Here on vacation, figured I'd stop on in. I know. Hey, you're the new studio. You know, like we got the lighting effects and, you know, the gold shining on you. We got the belt.

Starting point is 00:01:50 Yes. I'll let you wear that if you want. We'll let you get it on you. Oh, man. Outlier audio. Spencer, podcast booking agent. I mean, that's really at the core of what you do. Yep.

Starting point is 00:02:06 And we'll go down that path. But talk to, let's set the table for our audience. And, you know, obviously everyone has a journey. Sure. I think you have a pretty fascinating one in the music business, as we talked about. But let's set the table for everyone about sort of your entrepreneurial path and then where we are today.

Starting point is 00:02:28 Yeah, so I saw a booking concerts when I was 15 and then, you know, kind of progressed into doing multi-day music conferences and festivals. And I ran some small record labels into tour booking and artist management and stuff like that. But pretty much all along the way, I was always dealing on either side of talent representation. And in 2017, when I found podcast, I was listening to these people giving away the Kese Kingdom to all kinds of things. how to make money, how to buy real estate and investing. And I just assumed if you were on a podcast, you were like Mark Cuban, Grant Cardone, Richard Brent, celebrity style entrepreneurs. And then I found out that, for lack of a better term,

Starting point is 00:03:09 they were Joe Schmo investor. They were Joe Schmoe entrepreneur, but they were really good at what they did. And it just got me thinking about how for so many people, their title is just like, their job is just their title to everyone around them and it's never really considered that they're talented at what they do. They've got a skill and a knack for it, except within their circles. And so I just figured there was probably no one supporting them like that. And so when, unfortunately, my boss passed away from COVID on March

Starting point is 00:03:43 9th, 2020, and then three days later, the whole music industry got shut down. And so stuck in quarantine, I was like, everyone else is stuck too, not just artists. You can't go speak at conferences. You can't do meetups, you can't go to Expos. And podcasts were a place where everyone could, like, perform while stuck at home. And so I just started reaching out to people and saying, do you want to get booked on some shows while you're stuck at home? And I'll coordinate it for you. I'll help build your pitch.

Starting point is 00:04:12 I'll build, like, what your topics are, what's unique. And it just kind of snowballed from there. What I think about you talking, you know, back to, like, the booking with bands and things like that. Like, it's your relationship game, isn't it? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like, I get the sense from you as being out of a people person, you know, like, I don't know, never met a stranger.

Starting point is 00:04:35 Yeah. You know, like, know how to warm up to people, know how to get them to trust you, like you, all those things. Like, there's a salesmanship to it. But in all, the old saying that it's not what you know, it's who you know. Yeah. It's got to be true for you. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:51 I mean, when I have clients that do in person interview, I fly out on my own dime to get FaceTime with the team. I want to be able to reutilize those relationships. And it's definitely a relationship game. And that's part of the reason why publicists were kind of slow to jump on this, is that they've already got so many relationships to manage. And so then when you throw this medium out there that's got hundreds of thousands of active shows, but let's just say business, thousands of shows,

Starting point is 00:05:21 It's a lot of relationships to manage when you've already got tons of other things to do. Yeah. How do you think the medium is being viewed, you know, at that level? The publicists and the entertainment level and the news level, like, I mean, it seems like the credibility is discontinuing to rise. Yeah. I mean, there's a few different components like the money that, companies are throwing to produce new shows is going down a little bit. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:56 But there's not done producing shows. And, you know, there's so many people that say, everyone's got a podcast now. It seems saturated. Okay, well, are books no longer coming out? Are you no longer making Instagram profiles or link? I mean, it's just one more thing, but it's something that I think is way more valuable than a lot of the rest.

Starting point is 00:06:18 And really what they're saying no to is the commitment. And I just think that, you know, it used to be, if you were a published author, that was a really big deal. And then self-publishing became a little more viable. So there were more published authors. They still bragged about it. Yeah. It didn't take away from their credibility. You keynote speak one time.

Starting point is 00:06:42 You're still a keynote speaker. And so I think that being the host of a show is going to get that same level of respect. at a certain point, if it's not already there. Or being a frequent guest. I mean, that's the whole idea is I pitched myself to your team, but your team said yes. You're validating me to the audience. Yep. And so there's just a lot of factors there, but it's not going away, in my opinion.

Starting point is 00:07:12 Yeah, I don't think so either. I'll give a staff, and if you've listened to a few recent shows, you've heard me say it. 18 to 34 year olds listen and watch podcasts more than television now. Yep. Wrap your head around that. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. So, you know, and so when you do the math, you can kind of follow that down.

Starting point is 00:07:38 What they're doing now is, you know, 18 year olds doing now, they're going to continue to do. It's going to evolve, you know, like that genie isn't going back in the bottle. No. Like they're not going to, there might be new mediums that come out. And they might listen in different shows. Yes. But they're being raised and brought up in media around as podcasting being a top source of content entertainment education. Yep.

Starting point is 00:08:07 And so I think you'll, with that in mind, you're only going to see that proliferate because those 18 to 304-year-olds were coming to parents, the fathers, the leaders of tomorrow, raising the, the, earlier generations behind them. And so I think you're going to see this as a medium. I think it might evolve. And I think we're seeing that transition from audio to video and the interplay. Yep. But as a whole, though, I feel like we're just on, I don't know, maybe approaching the top of the curve, but I still think we're rising up the bell curve.

Starting point is 00:08:40 Well, and it combines a few different things. It takes the on-demand functionality of something like Spotify with the entertainment value of Howard Stern. With the education of audiobooks. I started listening to podcasts because I drove a lot and I was like, I should be utilizing my time a little bit better. I'm going to do audiobooks. Dude, I tried reading and listening to Thinking Grow Rich like six times.

Starting point is 00:09:07 And it is such a boring read and listen. No matter how I don't care how many people tell me it changed their lives and how impactful it is still boring. And I never finished it. But when I got to like a real estate podcast where someone in 60 minutes could teach me how they went from negative money in their bank account to certified millionaire or something, I'm like, cool, let's do it. Let's listen. And I can listen whenever I want. I can hear their backstory.

Starting point is 00:09:39 I can hear their personality. Even if you're just listening, you can hear when someone's smiling or laughing or whatever. And it's a really good way of building trust, credibility. rapport, all of those things. And I think if you're a person of leadership, person in, you know, a field where you need to be an authority, you're seen as authority, which is becoming just about everything. A brand, a company.

Starting point is 00:10:08 I don't know a reason why you wouldn't be doing podcasting, at least on some level. Like I think... Do a dozen of them. Yeah. That's where I think people get really hung up. up in their shorts and like in their mind of like the commitment because they think okay I have to do it forever I'm signing up forever and I'm signing up for four episodes a week for three years or something

Starting point is 00:10:35 and they just completely get analysis paralysis paralysis from analysis of how much they have to commit right do 10 episodes series 10 commit to six months yeah and and the the the content and the repurposing and the what you can learn from that experience and if done right has such compounding impact that I think people just get too caught up in thinking they have to bite the whole elven at the same time well and consider like I'm not I'm not a marketer I'm not like an SEO expert or anything like that but when I have to look someone up and all as I can find is all the great things they wrote about themselves on their website and their LinkedIn or whatever, it's not helpful. And so you don't even have to be a thought leader.

Starting point is 00:11:27 Just be someone that's in a competitive space. You're another business consultant. You're an attorney, financial planner, real estate agent. These people are dumping money into billboards to stand out when you could just show people your personality and why you're actually passionate about what you do through audio and video. And if you're like me, I don't really want to be a content creator. So coming on your show where you're feeding me the conversation, you're producing it, I just get to use it at the end. Yep.

Starting point is 00:12:00 It's just win, win, win all around. Yeah. What I don't understand is if you're being a person and everyone sort of cringes at the personal brand. Yeah. I get it. I understand. I cringe myself sometimes. you know like but let's call what is you're you're the amplification of your authority yeah

Starting point is 00:12:22 is really what we're talking about right why you wouldn't we have these mediums today we're 10 15 years ago with you know social networks sort of you know starting to get traction and other things like that but podcasting very nascent and the only way to get amplification would be okay I'm on the news every day I want TV I'm a superstar. I'm a, I'm a, a, a celebrity. We now have the ability to create our own news, create our own story,

Starting point is 00:12:55 and to create an aura around ourselves as being a specialist or known for X. Right. And to not leverage what that can do is mind boggling to me. Yep. Well, well, and so many people think, how am I going to get to be the biggest podcast in a world? How am I going to get a thousand listeners? If you're a service-based business, just local to your community,

Starting point is 00:13:24 how many customers do you really need for your entire year to be booked out? You don't need thousands. You don't need a few hundred. Being in music, I did concerts for 15 years. Do you know how many of them had over 250 people at them? 10%. So if, well, you've got a big brand. But if I were to tell people today, I am doing a conference in six months.

Starting point is 00:13:51 Do you know how many tickets I'd be able to sell? Not 250. It takes a lot of time. Yeah. So when someone is like, man, my podcast only has 36 listeners this week, I'm like, cool, you outperform my in-person real estate meetup that I've only ever, you know, I normally have 20 people at. You're outperforming most bands live audience at your local venue, your local bands, whatever.

Starting point is 00:14:15 I mean, it's hard when you're trying to keep up with the Joneses. But if you can have 50 of the right person listening to your podcast every week, super valuable. And to your point, try it for six months. And if you're really determining that it's not a good use of your time or resources, don't do it anymore. You can stop. You can rebrand.

Starting point is 00:14:42 You can change the name, whatever you want. I'd other see people commit to, I'm going to do a 10-part series on X for Y, then the whole pod fade of starting three episodes and then not making it. You know, like, plan out 10, you know, play it out 15. And then if it works great, but the whole, I don't know, any fire aim ready. Yeah, that's how preempt to every business I've had is started. It's like, look, everything has to be mapped out.

Starting point is 00:15:11 But like, I think that that's, that's where people, while they hit the wall is they have it thought through exactly, you know, what they're trying to accomplish, you know, have a plan. Yeah. Hope is not a strategy. Yeah, yeah. Well, I launched a podcast last week called Questions with a Podcast booking agent. And it wasn't a plan. I asked my LinkedIn community.

Starting point is 00:15:32 I was just dying for content. I was like sick of trying to come up with post every week. And I asked people, what do you want to learn from a podcast booking agent? I got like 10 people answering. I then decided I didn't want to type out all the. responses so I made videos they're all under two minutes and I turned to my girlfriend who's my podcast there because we also launched podcasts for people and run them I turned to her and I'm like we just put this audio as a podcast too and I don't I'm not expecting it to like blow up but it's out

Starting point is 00:16:03 there now yeah it's good for the SEO it's good for the content we hit number 46 on how to and now forever I can say I'm a top 50 podcaster if I wanted to be like that I'm not going to do that. You can. I'm a marketer. I'm a marketer. It's, uh, yeah. And it was just like, you know, it was just fun.

Starting point is 00:16:23 And we'll just keep putting it out. And if it gets listeners, great. But if not, like the content's made. I'm putting out as YouTube shorts too. I'm not trying to grow YouTube, but the content is there. And I've met people that are like, yeah, I do a weekly webinar. I'm like, so why don't you rip the audio and put it as a podcast too? You don't have to market it if you don't want, but just put it out there.

Starting point is 00:16:44 Yeah. It doesn't hurt. Yeah, exactly. Talk about the podcast booking game. Sure. You know, obviously getting people on shows, getting guests for shows. So there's kind of a two-way street there. But I don't know, most of the nuts and bolts of kind of what you do.

Starting point is 00:17:07 Yeah. So because I've kind of done a lot of things, I've always just been like intrigued on how people made money. And, you know, there's someone out there that's the number one ice chess producer for 7-Elevens on the East Coast. And it's like super not sexy, but they're a millionaire. I'm like, cool, I want to learn more about that. And so I think I've been able to bring that to when I'm developing topics for clients, because when I have a client, I want to learn more about what they do and how they became successful.

Starting point is 00:17:39 And so, you know, depending on the show, maybe the. the information is going to be surface level, but I can prod them a little bit and ask the questions that I want answered, because I believe that's probably what other people want to hear too. And it's going to be more than I can talk about marketing. I can talk about sales. I can talk about entrepreneurship, whatever. It's got to be more in depth than that. You have to be able to provide some value that the person hasn't heard.

Starting point is 00:18:04 And that's not always reinventing the wheel. Sometimes it's repackaging it in a new way. Bob Proctor, Jim Rohn, Tony Robbins. Zig Ziglar, a lot of them say the same things, but they say differently. They use different analogies that resonated with someone that liked oranges instead of apples. And so because of that, I think most people can be on podcasts, but you still have to be able to figure out what's your unique value proposition. What's the story that's going to be sold if maybe that's more of the angle? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:36 And so I kind of work through people and figure out what that is. And then I'll tell you before the show. like I work with Brandon Novak from Jackass in Viva, Alabama. I love being able to put him on entrepreneurship shows because he would have never thought about it. They would have never thought to invite him and creates a really cool, unique experience for people. Yeah, that brings back a lot of memories. I'm sure for a lot of.

Starting point is 00:19:00 And he's got no shame, none at all. Yeah. Yeah. What's like the biggest impact you've seen maybe with whether, expected or unexpected of having some of your clients like get on a podcast tour like you know going and getting on shows and maybe they weren't already a known name but like had credibility or whatever like what's the impact that you've seen the biggest like monetary uh benefit i've seen from one client is he went on a show and he's an oil and gas exploration i put him on like kind of a just

Starting point is 00:19:39 an alternative investing podcast. They were more real estate guys. And they said, we're not putting your interview out until you do a deal with us because we want to do a deal. And so he had to put up like 15, the down payment for, I think, but they funded like the acquisition of like an $8 million oil and gas production deal.

Starting point is 00:20:02 And no one, like he's just known in his circles. Like no press release one out or anything like that, but he just, he just got. like his equity in an $8 million deal just by going on that podcast and then he wasn't trying to solicit them yeah it was just a show you know um but you know other people have had big contributions to like their charities some people get deals some people get partners i mean it's it's it's it's one of those things that's hard to quantify until someone comes to you and says i heard you on this show now i'm reaching out yeah um but it's it's there's tons there's just tons

Starting point is 00:20:39 of opportunity. I remember reading someone on like LinkedIn saying that she went on a show to talk about one business, but she did a different type of consulting. And the host hired her for that other type of consulting, which turned into like 200 grand worth of work over the last two years. And that wasn't even what the interview was about, you know? Yeah. It's like there's a compounding effect from it. That's, it's over time. And you just never know who's listening or what, what connects will be made. And it's like obviously, I mean,

Starting point is 00:21:12 obviously if you've got a book coming out, like there's some obvious things. Like if you're, you've got a book release or you've got some kind of clear offer, new thing you're doing and you've got credibility in something and you're wanting to amplify that. Okay. It's a good part of the media mix to get on there.

Starting point is 00:21:28 Right. But then there's just sort of this, I tell people, like the amount, like I've been doing our show for six years. And there's the things that you would do. think you're obvious that have happened and like leads for the agency and sponsors and things like that.

Starting point is 00:21:46 But then there's just the random phone call once a month or DM or whatever that's like, hey, we heard you on this. And they'll quote like a show I was on like four years ago. Yeah. And it's like, I'm like, yeah, sometimes it's obvious or something. I don't even remember. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're like, you know, I just, I'm doing this and there could be an opportunity,

Starting point is 00:22:08 like, to obscure. your investment or connective, just the connective tissue that it can bring in opportunities are just hard to even like put a number on. Well, that's, that's from a marketing side. What's really cool is you run an ad budget on Instagram, Facebook.

Starting point is 00:22:27 When it's done, it's done. Podcasts continue to grow. As long as the show stays active. Yeah. It continues to grow. And when that show gets a really invested listener, they run out of new episodes.

Starting point is 00:22:39 They go back. and listen to the old ones. That's right. And so there's tons of people that say, like, I get leads from something I did three years ago. And I forgot about that show until someone brought it back up, you know. But it's also, how much money goes into a 30-second ad on the Super Bowl? You know that number. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:04 Five, ten million. Yeah. We're going to be doing this. How's long this interview? It's going to be 60 minutes. Yeah. Brands can't even pay for that if they wanted to. No.

Starting point is 00:23:13 And, like, you get it with your listeners every single week. Exactly. It's just, it's just what? And, I mean, I, I know this isn't like a normal interview for the listeners, but I know that, like, this is, this is, we can nerd out about this because we both are in the space. And this is something that we know most people don't know anything about. No. And businesses need to be hearing it, though. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:35 And entrepreneurs and, like, whether, whether, wherever you are on that curve, if you haven't gotten your heads around this. you need to. And maybe you don't want to start a podcast yet. You're not, that's fine. But just remember, if you get paid to do anything, you've got a skill set that the average person doesn't know anything about. And that's valuable. You might not be able to go get on the biggest show talking about the most basic level of SEO. But you can go find a podcast that's only done 20 episodes in marketing or business hasn't covered your skill set yet.

Starting point is 00:24:13 pitch yourself. They're going to say yes because they've only, no one's banging down their door to get on their show yet. And you just got free content and SEO that the host paid for. That's right. Because the distribution is out there. And like you mentioned, it's evergreen. It's where to last for it.

Starting point is 00:24:31 Love it or hated. The stuff on the internet, it lasts forever. Yep. And it's funny because I'll see, you know, we'll do the SEO stuff for my show. in my name and things like that because I tell people all the time like if you don't do personal influence amplification I'm trying not to say personal brain Spencer I'm trying really hard but then you're allowing Google or someone else to tell your story for you

Starting point is 00:25:04 because you're allowing when everyone's Google's everybody now right everyone searches for you Like if you're going to have relationship with them, they're looking you up on social media. They're looking you up on Google. They're looking you up on LinkedIn, X, whatever it is. They're, depending on how that connection is being made, if it's business, if it's personal, whatever, they're looking you up. And when you don't commit to authority building, you're allowing Google to tell the story for you. Because if you Google my name, I own the first three pages. And there's a really popular lawyer in Canada, his name is Ryan Alford.

Starting point is 00:25:42 There's now an African-American pro golfer named Ryan Alford, who's actually had some pretty good rounds lately. He started to creep up into there. But I was the first free page, so it's, I control the story. Not because there's anything bad. No. But I want to put out my best attributes and what I have to offer the world versus just Russian roulette.

Starting point is 00:26:08 Hope it's good. Brandon Turner from Bigger Pockets is competing against, a pro skateboard named Brandon Turner. Yeah. And so it was funny. Like when I had Brandon Novak on his show, Brandon Turner was like, I'm sorry,

Starting point is 00:26:21 Brandon Novak was like, I'm going to be on Brandon Turner. That's like my best friend. Like what, he doesn't have a podcast. And then I had to, that's something that he was, you know,

Starting point is 00:26:29 Brandon Turner from Bigger Pocket was competing with for a while. He had to build his brand so that he came up before the pro skateboard. Yes. And so by going on shows and the distribution you get, because even to this day, it's not the biggest podcast. podcast and I don't I'm not going to do service to it because I don't remember the name but it's still

Starting point is 00:26:47 on like it's the bottom but it's on the first page I went on it like five years ago and to this day it stays out of what he does this show's not that big but somehow he stays on my first page of results like I've been on some big shows and like they don't right to where this one does I don't know the guy does the great SEO I guess but uh it's funny but it it lasts and it's out there and evergreen and it you don't know the volume of impressions it's getting and the impact that it can have on people and if nothing else you know I think in a way we all crave to leave our mark on the world and to share our talents and there's no better way to do that than to share it on medium this mediums that get shared and distributed well that I heard someone talk about that too was

Starting point is 00:27:38 They like podcasting because it's like their, you know, it could be part of their legacy. I mean, yeah. And, you know, you could be related to a famous author that died before you were born. All you've got is the books they wrote, which was not their raw, authentic thoughts. It was revisions and revisions and revisions. And this is what I think is going to do the best. But like your great grandkids are going to be able to see hours of videos. video of you if they want and you know really get to know who you are and um and for them the

Starting point is 00:28:19 important thing isn't going to be your insight on marketing or sales or business unless they become an entrepreneur themselves but it's going to be the nuggets you put out there about how to be a good person um how to take care of your family and they're like oh I see he did this with my dad You know, and that's just, it's kind of a really undervalued, underrecognized thing that in 50 years, everyone's going to see it. Yeah. Right now it's just this piece of medium to drive business or build your brand or whatever it might be. Exactly. Talking with Spencer Carpenter, founder of Outlier Audio, podcast booking extraordinaire.

Starting point is 00:29:02 Who's the average person that comes to you these days, Spencer? Like what's what's that kind of profile of the person that comes to you and what they're looking for? Yeah. So I work. I have a wide variety of people. Like half my clientele is in the real estate space just because I've kind of become the guy there. But my clientele beyond that really varies. I mean, I mentioned I work with Brandon Novak, but also James Wilkes from the UFC and the executive producer of game changers on Netflix.

Starting point is 00:29:35 and then Cameron Harold, who's the author of Vivid Vision, and Avery Carl, who is, she built the number one EXP brokerage in the world and is also like a short-term rental, you know, guru. Expert, not guru. But then I have someone that's like never done a podcast and are like, I need some SEO. I'm trying to build my brand. I'm trying to get some investors.

Starting point is 00:30:02 I just need some content. I mean, I really do have a, wide range of people and that are different parts of their career. But, you know, the ideal is always, you know, who are the high performers I can work with. I've been really lucky in that because not many people do what I do. I get to work with a lot of people I consider mentors a year before I even started this. So that's awesome. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:25 The, I'm trying to think a big real estate people with. I mean, Toriko Musa, you know, had him on. Yeah, yeah. He's an interesting guy. He's smart as how old works hard. and Jamil. Yeah, Pace and Jamil. Pace is awesome.

Starting point is 00:30:39 I work with a bunch of like the bigger pockets authors. Yeah. Like half a dozen of their authors. Pace and Jamil are two really good guys. Oh, yeah. Like some people in the business. And not Torkas too. Because I'm a Sokow guy.

Starting point is 00:30:52 And I know Pace is over there, they're all over there. But in California. But Pace and, and Jamil had a little war down to earth. I don't know. Yeah. And the, but you still don't ever know you're going to meet. in this game. It's that compounding relationship stuff.

Starting point is 00:31:09 You know, it's just like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, but like, you know, like, but literally, like, it's, uh, it's just crazy how it just sort of, you get in this industry and you start talking to people and then who you meet and who they know and I don't know, can just really go leaps and bounds. Pretty much every time I've had like an unsolicited call coming, where like in my calendar do the link, it's like, you know, put your website or whatever. Yeah. Every time I've looked at their website and been like, this is going to be a waste,

Starting point is 00:31:42 it's just not going to be a fit. I found out they were inquiring about something different. Like, I'm launching this new brand. I just, that's the website I have right now. So that's what I gave you, but I'm actually launching this other brand. That is a fit. Almost every single time. There have been people that are like, they gave me links to like their music or something.

Starting point is 00:32:01 I'm like, I don't work with musicians because. I don't want to take their money. And then I found out she's actually like a systems coach. And that's what she's launching soon. And so like, dude, you just don't know. Who's maybe like one of the biggest names? You mentioned some of your clients and stuff like that. But like as far as booking or whatever, you can do some name dropping here if you want to.

Starting point is 00:32:27 Like, you know, and I don't want you to talk shit about anybody. But like, is there anybody like surprised like big, names that surprised you for the good or the bad? So cool shows. I mean, I was in Mark Manson's studio last month with a client. And like his writing was really important for me just in developing like emotional intelligence. And like, you know, just just in my early 20s. So that's like been the coolest for sure.

Starting point is 00:32:57 In terms of like investing podcast other than Ramsey who mainly just interviews his friends from what I've been told. I've had people on the top four investing podcasts in the U.S. And that's all been cool. But most of the people I'd say that are at that level, they are who they are. It's the person that invest, that's like still climbing that you get there. And you're like, this isn't who you are. And that's okay. Like you're doing what you need to do.

Starting point is 00:33:29 But I'm like, you just had two videoccurring. set up for when my client walked in for you to say hi so you have B roll and it's just it's kind of weird you know and I don't blame anybody it's just it's just like weird yeah um but you know they're still cool people they're successful for a reason you know uh for better or worse uh either they're a good guy or they're just out for themselves i don't know but um what's the trick to getting booked on shows. Lots of a trick, but like what, what's some value for people, you know, that might be, uh, hey, they want to hire outlier, outlier audio at some point, but they're on the,

Starting point is 00:34:13 you know, they're doing it for themselves now, like. Unique value proposition, um, a story and follow up. Half of my interviews are booked because I followed up. And we were talking about this before we started. You don't know what's going on the other end. The longest it took me to get someone on, like these two clients, they really wanted to be on like Pat Flynn's podcast. They had learned from his courses. It was really important to them.

Starting point is 00:34:45 Pat Finan on last two. From the time I got the first response from his assistant to the time it was on the calendar, 365 days to the day. And then it didn't happen for another three months. and then come out for another three months after that. So you're a half. Follow up. It was like 98 emails at the end. And it was just like didn't line up with like his schedule,

Starting point is 00:35:10 what they were doing at the time. But it came back to they had a good value proposition. You know, again, you're not always reinventing the wheel, but you're putting your spin on it. It's been. And then a story. Like if maybe you don't have anything that's like super unique in what you do in your business.

Starting point is 00:35:29 but your story lends to why you're passionate about it. And so especially now, I think with things like 9-11 or the financial crisis or COVID or any of these things, like there have been a whole lot of events in the last 25 years that could really influence someone's life and put passion behind what they do now. and being able to put that into words to, in a skillful way without like writing a novel is kind of a skill set in itself. You know, when I pitch people, my first line is always I'm reaching out about so-and-so to be on your show to discuss and I do the three leading topics. Because I'm just assuming they don't know who my person is, but if they like those three topics, no matter how long or short that bio is, is, they're going to keep reading if it's a fit.

Starting point is 00:36:30 Or I just save them a bunch of time and they can move on. But, you know, I normally just, I try and condense to like two, two paragraphs. Yeah. Here's a list of four to six topics. It can't be, I can talk about sales. It's like, what is your system? What is your proprietary system? Or what is your, not gimmick, but like, what is it you do that special?

Starting point is 00:36:55 You kind of develop topics around that? and oh yeah you have to include links to yourself a lot of people don't do that yeah the keyword I'm going to go back to where you started the follow-up follow up I mean people it's you nailed it when you said it earlier you don't ever really know what's happening on the other side and you can take it personal or you can you know not be thorough or just assume that oh I checked the box I asked them and it didn't happen. Or I did asked once and did one follow up and it didn't happen. It's the follow up.

Starting point is 00:37:33 It's the, it's the, and hitting him at the right time. If you didn't hit it at the right time, then try three months. Like, if you're dealing with entrepreneurs, don't hit them up on Fridays.

Starting point is 00:37:42 I don't send emails on Fridays. Yeah. Unless it's already a conversation I'm having. But I also know entrepreneurs, whether or not they like that I do this on Sunday night when they're watching House of Dragon, they've got their laptop on their lap. So I send emails on Sundays from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m.

Starting point is 00:38:01 And just you don't know if they were sick. If they're on vacation, they're between assistants. The assistant the first time around was inept and didn't see how special you are. Some assistants look at every submission. Others, when you're not looking, are like, there's 36 of these fuckers. I'm not doing this. Yeah. I'm going to look at five.

Starting point is 00:38:25 I'm going to book the next five interviews and I'll deal with the rest of this later. You just have no idea. What is going on on the other end? I'll go, you know, real world example. Like, we get, we get, I don't want to sound like exaggerating. At least 100 and sometimes over 200 requests a month for our, for this show. Guys, I just want you to know, he's not making that up. When your show is as successful as this, that's literally what you're going up against.

Starting point is 00:39:01 And so, and right now, we're going through some growing pains and adding staff and replacing some staff and just adding different talent sets. And so it's been that period. And a lot of times it's me and one other person and usually it would have been three or four people like vetting that. And it's been like me and one and half a person for. like a couple weeks. And we're not responding to as fast or as often as we did because it's just this season

Starting point is 00:39:34 or things that are going on. Whereas if you'd happen to send the request four months ago, still would have been up against it, but probably getting really timely responses and thoughtful, you know, yes, no, maybe's you know, maybe

Starting point is 00:39:49 next year, like whatever it might be, depending on what the request is. But again, you just don't ever know what's happening they're in. So you have to just be human and thoughtful and resourceful. We can't say this about the people that have like

Starting point is 00:40:05 just conversational, funny podcast. I mean, well, comedians, they've got comedian stuff to do. But if you're talking to someone on a business, investing, entrepreneurship, marketing, sales show, they're entrepreneurs. They've got other stuff going on.

Starting point is 00:40:21 Yes. I mean, the podcast is a business or a hobby amongst you've got five businesses I've got three and there are plenty of other people that it's like maybe they've only got two

Starting point is 00:40:41 but one of them really requires 90% of it you just don't know anything and so follow up is important and so I like I do one follow up like eight days later and another one like 10 days later because not many people are sick for more than three weeks

Starting point is 00:40:57 Not many people are on vacation for more than three weeks. I've hit people up when they were on a month-long honeymoon, and I had no idea. But that's how I do it. I figure I'm not going to do a fourth email. They'll, if they care about who it is I have, they'll come back to it.

Starting point is 00:41:14 I've literally had people say, hey, sorry, I just saw this, you know, it's not a fit this time around. That was an email that came a year later. And it was like, it was an assistant. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:41:25 you're going back over an email. emails from a year ago. You're at least appreciative and thoughtfulness, right? I'm like, you found this in spam or whatever. And you actually responded. That's crazy. And I have done the four months later found the email and gone, this is a perfect fit. Why did we?

Starting point is 00:41:45 Yes. Why didn't we say yes? Well, and that's, that's the only thing. Your assistant, like, whoever they might be, they might understand your industry perfectly. or they might not understand it at all and see the parallel. Or maybe they only understand you. They know what you're right for. But they don't, you know, there's just going to be something they don't know about you

Starting point is 00:42:08 and why you want to have a guy that talks about stem cells on your show. I don't know. What do you think back to the value of, you know, like, okay, we gave people the tips on kind of the outreach format, the follow-up, being Uber important. What's something that maybe people sweep under the rug? It's not that important. I'm not going to update it. Like social profiles, like personal website.

Starting point is 00:42:41 What's the stuff that really matters or doesn't matter? You know, like in your experience? So one, like five character detail that has made a big difference, at least for some people, is when I list out, like at the bottom, of the email I put their website, their Instagram, they're, oh, the things that they're active in. Yeah. If they have over a thousand on any, I put that in parentheses, 2.7 followers, 15,000 followers, whatever. And there have been some, like, producers that are, like, that have come to me and said,

Starting point is 00:43:13 I really appreciate you do this because we're now at a point in our journey where we have to consider their following. And that's not great, especially. I've also had people say, hey, your guy doesn't have 40,000 on one profile. I'm like, yeah, but he's got a nine figure real estate portfolio. If you want him to go, I've said to someone, I will have him go buy another 20,000 if that's what you want, like your other guess. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:43:43 Or you can have him on on merit because he's got a nine figure real estate portfolio and you're a real estate show. Oh, shit. That's the real good is right there. I mean, it's like, give me a break. I don't do that that often. That was one time where I was like, come on. It's stupid. I mean, you can have them buy the extra if that's what we're talking about.

Starting point is 00:43:59 Like, it's either there or it's not there. Yeah, yeah. Like, you're really doing your homework. Like, you can figure this out. Like, okay. They play in the vanity game here. We play in the real game. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:14 You know, and I get why certain shows for certain guests and certain things that, whether it's real, vanity, fake, whatever, the optics maybe matter. But that's not every show. No, no. It's definitely not. And there's only a few that do it that way. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:33 The other thing, this is just so small, but it's like this is what I do for a living, so I think about it a lot. If I have someone who has someone else on their team that's already been pitching or marketing or something, I'll go back and forth with like the draft of the pitch. And they'll add things like my outreach is,

Starting point is 00:44:53 Ryan, I'm reaching out about Spencer Carpenter being on a show to discuss this. They'll add things like we're reaching out about the potential possibility of a collaboration between your two brands. I'm like, dude,

Starting point is 00:45:09 it's not helpful. Overcomplicated. And it's, and. Had that exact thing last week. It's so funny you bring that up. And if you are really, if you truly feel you're a nobody and that you're just asking your idol, if you can be on a show,

Starting point is 00:45:23 fine, but I don't approach podcast hosts like I'm asking for a favor. I, like, my clients are there to bring value and your show needs valuable guests. My guest needs valuable shows. Like, there's a, there's a cooperation here. And don't overcomplicate it. Don't come off rude either. Don't like, say, like, you should be thankful. to have us on the show.

Starting point is 00:45:56 But, and maybe this is just a luxury I have because I'm a representative and not an individual reaching out on my behalf. But I, no matter the size of the show, I look at it like we're peers, you might decide otherwise. You might decide my person's not a fit. But I'm reaching out because I believe they are or I'm hoping they are. Yeah. And I just think that that's like it's, it's a certain. I mean, it's kind of a confidence thing, but, you know, at the end of that, this is a give and take. And that's okay.

Starting point is 00:46:33 I'll give an insider tip here. Value, baby. Spencer, we're all about value today. Talking to Spencer Carpenter. He is the founder of Outlier Audio. So tip here. If you're wanting to go on a show or get, or if you want to get a big guess. It's on the biggest guess I've had on this show.

Starting point is 00:46:53 Personal DM. what's up man love this and this about you something that I really admire about them that's heartfelt like not generic like some specific

Starting point is 00:47:05 yeah you know love the latest movie you're in or whatever you know something specific where like I'm being genuine yeah also hey I host a show it's pretty fucking popular

Starting point is 00:47:19 that's just what I say I don't say you know number one I just say it's pretty fucking popular. Love to have you on. Yeah. 80% conversion rate.

Starting point is 00:47:29 Like just that. Yep. Like with big name guess. Like just being human. Yep. And look, I do have a, I have the credibility and, you know, a non paid for verified account and things. There's things that you're working in my favor that they can check some mental boxes

Starting point is 00:47:47 that I'm not Joe Schmoe. Yeah. But at the same time, I'm just being human. Yep. You know, just being direct, you know, like two guys. or, you know, two professionals, whatever it is, got a girl, girl, a guy, whatever it is. But I don't know.

Starting point is 00:48:00 I think there's just that. Sometimes we over complicate things or like over to your point, complicate it or professionalize it versus just humanizing it. Yep. Well, I mean, and that's what this medium is. It's just being, that's the whole thing that's great about it. It's just being human and talking to one another. And, yeah, it's, it's, I also, just so.

Starting point is 00:48:26 most people know, this isn't over commercialized or monetized and like, most of the time you're not like paying to be on shows. You're just going on because you've got value and they need someone. Yeah. And there are shows to do that. Yeah. There are shows to do it. And for the record, I haven't paid Spencer as Spencer hasn't paid us. I didn't give him to check yet. No, I'm just kidding. No. No. It's like, Spencer has value to add. Our audience needs value. And we like promoting podcast. casting and the medium because we know it's the future of media. But the point there is that like when Matthew McConaughey was doing that tour of all these podcasts, people weren't like paying him for that, you know?

Starting point is 00:49:09 No. He wanted to go out there and promote his book. And I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Mark Cuban has charged people to be on shows. I'm not saying he has. I'm just, I wouldn't be surprised. I've heard that like even, I remember like victory of the podcast, the entourage podcast when they had Charlie Sheen on. They said, yeah, we split ad revenue.

Starting point is 00:49:33 So it was like we're, he's getting as much as we're getting out of the show. And that's like, that's just another thing. I've got no problem with that. That's cool about this medium. It is. And we talked about it.

Starting point is 00:49:44 Like Pat McAfee came out and said, it's public knowledge now. He pays Nick Saban to come on every week. He paid Aaron Rogers to come on every week. Yep. And like millions of dollars. like yearly, like two or three million. I think Aaron Rogers does weekly.

Starting point is 00:50:01 I don't know if he does any more, but was. But that netted, Pat understood the game. Like for sports, Aaron wasn't doing interviews with anyone anymore. And it pretty much helped him get the $85 million NFL or ESPN deal licensing his show. Yep. That was pretty good ROI. 85 mil for 3-mill year for Aaron. Math works out.

Starting point is 00:50:26 But yeah, and back to the original point is like being human is the important part. Like when I had a client on Mark Manson's podcast, he, I mean, he might have said yes either way. Yeah. But I let him know, like, you've been a huge influence on me. And this is how I can bring value to you is if you decide that I have a guess that's, that is helpful for your show, that's how I can contribute to you. And I'd love to be able to do that. and, you know, especially if you're going after a big podcast or big guests, that's where you can be valuable. And maybe it can be as simple as your book changed my life.

Starting point is 00:51:07 But if you can really elaborate on a little bit, personalize it. Yeah. It goes a long way. And so, but that's what is cool about this medium is you can just kind of reach out. And then again, that's also what brought me to this. especially if you're in the entrepreneurship or business space. There's no gatekeeper at William Morris, CAA, UTA for most of these people. There might be an assistant.

Starting point is 00:51:36 You got to get through the assistant. But I even think that like if you make it heartfelt and the assistant normally would ignore it, they might send it to their boss or just like, you know, because let's assume the assistant cares about the person they're working for. And they want to make their day. Hey, this guy might not be a fit, but he wrote you a hand, you know, it's a handwritten letter that he mailed here about being on his podcast. I don't know. Do you want to look at it? It's, it can, it can be worth the effort for sure. Or a DM, you know. Yeah, exactly. Is, you know, we're at this intersection point with audio and video with podcasting.

Starting point is 00:52:17 Do you have a perspective on the balance of the mediums, the, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, The talking, you know, you've, obviously we're two talking heads here. We have multiple cameras in the room, and it is what it is. But I do think, and where we're pushing is towards this YouTube space, which is huge for podcast growth now and discoverability and all that sort of thing. What's your perspective on the medium, the video medium, you know, where it might go. Like, do you think and toil or think about these things? Yeah, it's, it's like, here's, here's like why I liked podcasts. I could just listen to audio whenever I wanted doing lawn work or whatever,

Starting point is 00:53:07 lifting, whatever it might be. But once my favorite podcast added the video, now when I wash dishes in the morning for 15 minutes, I'll stop where I was at in the audio, put my phone up in front of my face while doing dishes, and watched the video part. When Lex Friedman had Matthew Cox on his show, Matthew Cox was like the number one on the Marshalls list or FBI

Starting point is 00:53:38 or something like that on the run for a few years. It was a six-hour interview. And three hours into it, I was done doing all the work I wanted, but I still wanted to listen. So I went to the living room and sat down on the couch and pulled it up and watched the rest of it. it. And I thought it was crazy when Gary V said, more people are going to start watching video podcasts on their TV. But they are. Maybe not prime time. But it's definitely happening. And I have

Starting point is 00:54:11 clients that come to me and they only want to do in-person video podcast. And that's for a variety of reasons. Like some people are just like, I can't connect with someone over Zoom. I I just, I can't do it very well. Other people are like, I'd rather have the high quality video content. And it's worth me flying and paying for the lodging and stuff to get that video rather than paying a videographer to come into my office. Yeah. But from the entertainment standpoint, even if it's not for a long form conversation sitting

Starting point is 00:54:45 down on the couch, what does better on Instagram Reels? What does better on TikTok? What does better on YouTube shorts? Good quality video. Not split screen. Zoom where one person had a really good camera and the other person's connection kind of sucked. I mean, look, let me be clear, especially if you're not doing podcasts yet. It's all worth it.

Starting point is 00:55:09 Do it all. But to answer your question about the progression, the in-person video is definitely the trend. And if you can afford to do it, you should. But this is also an investment, you know? Not everybody can and maybe got to build your way up there. But this is how you're going to get the, this is how you're going to get the attention of those big names. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:33 And whether you're a guest or a host, part of the benefit of podcast is the access. So we were talking before like, if you could have Oprah on the show, great. But even though it would be way more convenient for her to do Zoom, if she was in South Carolina speaking at Clemson or something like that, what do you think is going to be more attractive to our stopping by and fitting in her schedule or trying to get her to do it when she's at home and her life routine.

Starting point is 00:56:03 We want her right there in that chair, baby. Exactly. We're coming for you, Oprah. I'm telling you. She's on the short list. But it's so true. And I think it's crawl walk run. I mean, you can, it doesn't have to be all at once.

Starting point is 00:56:20 Like if you're starting a podcast, you're going on podcasts, like all those things. But the in person, I mean, there's a reason, you know, we've transformed, you know, once you get to a certain level, it's like we're either going to embrace this growth and take it to the next level and maximize the leverage that we're creating. And the relationships you build in person and just getting to know someone and absolutely quality. I mean, like, this is going to look gorgeous. Like it's 4K. Like we've shot a few episodes in here and like Sawyers knows what he's doing.

Starting point is 00:56:59 Yeah. Our talented producer. And, you know, 4K, it's a different vibe. Well, and I mean, the in person is cool. Like there's this awesome studio in Austin called, I think it's called Pouch Six or something,

Starting point is 00:57:15 but Modern Wisdom is filmed out of there and a few others. And I watched their, the studios real of like who comes in. I think in the first. month I followed them, they had Tim Ferriss, Gary V, Mark Manson, and a few, just like a few, and like, all these people are going to this studio. I'm trying to open a studio like close, closer to Philly where I'm out of. That's close to the airport so that when someone important flies in, they can easily come in for an interview and fly out, or that's what they're coming

Starting point is 00:57:43 for. It's still convenient for them. Going with a client to do an interview. The interview that had before was Cody Sanchez. And I said to my client, like, I want to get there 15 minutes early just in the event that she's still there. And, you know, she does, I'm sure she doesn't remember who I am. Like, we didn't, I just said she's awesome. Yeah. That's all I did.

Starting point is 00:58:06 I just let her know she's awesome. Yeah. But it was like, that was added value to the trip. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. As to close out here, talking with Spencer Carpenter, founder of Outler. audio. Spencer, I mean, where's it all headed, man? What's the next couple of years her

Starting point is 00:58:28 outlier look like? Where are we wanting to take this thing? Dude, I just want more people that I can get podcasts to make them happy. You know, I explained to you. My job has always been, all of my jobs have been supporting talented people. And when I left music, I was never going to book someone Madison Square Garden, Coachella, anything like that. But like here, I can get you on a top podcast that moves a needle for you.

Starting point is 00:59:00 It's with someone that you really look up to something that's going to add credibility to. I can add value in that way. And so I just like continuing to support talented people, you know, and it's not always business. Some people just have really good nonprofits. They are out there, doing good in the world and I've never had any grand idea that I was going to change the world,

Starting point is 00:59:26 but I can help people that are. And so that's what I look at like this business is as I'm helping people that either change the world or put information out there that can help change people's lives. I think you're really genuine, man. Thank you. I think that's going to come across. Appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you having me.

Starting point is 00:59:44 This is awesome. Where can everybody find you? Yeah. So website's just outlieradio.com. on Instagram. I'm just Spencer Carpenter, LinkedIn, my name as well. So I'm pretty active on Instagram and LinkedIn. Sweet. You know what to find him. We'll have him in the show notes, Outlier Audio, Spencer Carpenter. He's a good dude. And if you want to get out there on the shows,

Starting point is 01:00:07 you know who to call. Hey guys, you know what to find me. Ryan isright.com. You'll find all the highlight clips from today, the show notes and the YouTube video. You've got to see this gorgeous, gorgeous studio saw your setup. We'll see you next time on Right About Now. This has been right about now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. Visit Ryanisright.com for full audio and video versions of the show or to inquire about sponsorship opportunities. Thanks for listening.

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