Right About Now with Ryan Alford - eSports ft. Matt Arden - Head of Content and Media at NBA 2K League

Episode Date: August 18, 2020

In this episode, Ryan sits down with the Head of Content and Media at NBA 2K League, Matt Arden.Matt, a 3 time Emmy Winner, and executive producer, dedicates his passion for story telling in his work at the NBA 2K League.Ryan and Matt discuss several topics in this episode:Changing the game's production location from the studio to living roomsMatt's career journey to the NBAMatt's role as executive producerWhere Matt and Ryan see eSports going To follow along in the series, follow @RyanAlford | @the.rad.cast on Instagram | Visit our website for more theradcast.comTo stay up to date with the league, follow @NBA2KLEAGUE on Instagram   If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, join Ryan’s newsletter https://ryanalford.com/newsletter/ to get Ferrari level advice daily for FREE.  Learn how to build a 7 figure business from your personal brand by signing up for a FREE introduction to personal branding https://ryanalford.com/personalbranding.  Learn more by visiting our website at www.ryanisright.comSubscribe to our YouTube channel  www.youtube.com/@RightAboutNowwithRyanAlford. 

You're listening to the Radcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? It's Ryan Alford, host of the Radcast. We are in part six or seven, not sure, Riley, I'm having a hard time keeping up, but of the esports series it's been a good one had a ton of interaction and today i'm super pumped to have matt arden head of content and media nba 2k league matt great to have you on thank you very much for

having me i appreciate it appreciate it can i do i drop it three-time emmy winner i mean do i do i start there like i gotta butter you up here. I want some good stuff. If I didn't win it with the NBA two K league, it doesn't count anymore. All right. All right. All right. So excited to have Matt on. We shared a few stories from mutual friend, the voice, one of the voices of, if not the voice of NBA two K league, Scott Cole, good friend of mine and uber talented. So, so great to have that connection, but you know, what, what's, what's going on, man? ESPN2 every week,

almost every week, a lot's happening with you guys. Yeah, it's been crazy. I mean, you know, you and I were talking, you know, before we, before we hit play that I hesitate to say that this period has been fun because it's obviously for so many more global implications has not been fun. But I think that we've, you know, made a very good run at making the best of it. And we have found the silver lining in all of this. And I think, you know, in a weird way, it's been bearable because we've had NBA 2K League to lean on. And I think that um

you know i think we're always really like outwardly focused on the fans but it was weird how when we focused internally on how we're going to battle this whole covid situation that we realized what fans we are of sports and of esports and of the 2k league um and for us that work on the league it's been it's been great for us too because it's league, it's been great for us, too, because it's been an escape for us, too. It's kind of saved us. That's exactly right. I mean, I never knew how much I missed sports until the gap between the NBA. And I'm not even a huge MLB fan, but I was like, you know, Braves are down the road from us here in Greenville.

You know, quasi-Braves fan. I'll catch, you know, a few innings here. I'm like, I was missing MLB. So, you know quasi braze fan i'll catch you know a few innings here i'm like i was missing mlb so you know like uh i'm sorry i mean that is not the biggest baseball but i was just like missing the sport so i was like praying for the golf to not to get canceled when it started back dude i was i was watching cornhole was following us on espn2 a lot of nights and i was i was glued to that when we went off air anything competitive anything that feels like sports we're we're in I've never watched as much Korean baseball exactly a.m. at my gym then uh it was I'd have it on ESPN in the gym and uh yeah lots of Korean baseball I'm like really

like rooting for these guys and I'm like you know what's cool though like with all that you know again trying to find the silver lining like now I kind of have little fandoms with certain Korean baseball teams. And I have the ability that it's given us to expose us to different sports and different people. For me, look at the core. I'm a storyteller, right? And to understand some of these new stories and meet interesting people and understand their backgrounds, all that's been super cool in a weird way. And again, I don't, I would like us to get past this and I would like to not ever have another COVID era. But it has exposed us to some really cool things. And it's been, you know, there have been some cool moments. So, you know, I'm not going to, I don't want to throw it all away. I love it. So let's start

storytelling. You opened the book perfect for me. I love it. I know that's your background. I know, again, we mentioned the Emmys, but let's start there a little bit, you know, your background in storytelling and producing, and then maybe, you know, teeing off right to 2K League, kind of, you know, maybe give you a little bit of that back history of Matt and kind of your, you know, what led up to where you're at now. Yeah, I mean, look, I got really lucky in college. You know, I worked my way through college working in sports media at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies. Sorry, I know you're a Clemson fan. I worked at, you know, the newspaper and the radio station, the TV station down there.

And then I landed an internship at the time at WRC in Washington for the George Michael Sports Machine, which at the time he was the biggest syndicated sports program on Sunday nights globally. And I learned a lot from him. And, you know, the biggest piece of advice he ever gave me was that, like, your college degree is great, but don't try to prove to everybody you can write circles around them. You want your stories to be embraced by everybody in America. Like, you know, his whole thing was mom, mom, pop beer can better understand what you're trying to say. And, and that's sort of, you know, how I approach storytelling as a, as an executive producer and started out as a sportscaster on air

and then found myself incredibly lucky to get hired down in Atlanta, lived in Atlanta for 11 years and worked for the majority of that at Turner Sports. And Turner Sports was amazing for me in so many ways. One, it really introduced me to the NBA product and I got to work on NBA a ton as a big part of my career. Got to meet my wife, which I would, you know, no offense to the league, but I would put her above the NBA. But it's a close race. And I got, you know, down there, you know, as part of my maturation in storytelling, I got exposed to two very important people in my growth. One was Ernie Johnson. He and I, I was on a show with him. He hosted the show that handed off to my show. And he was really instrumental in giving me a lot of advice and was always very kind to me.

And you talk about Scott Cole and some of the shared friends that we have, you know, Ernie Johnson and Scott and those guys, homework was always the thing that do your research, know your homework, tell the story the right way. And, you know, he really hammered that home with me. And then the other one was Craig Berry at Turner Sports, who's still there. Craig was a huge influence on my life, hired me into CSSU down there as there as employee number one you know as the first sort of main hire under him as a pa um you know didn't know much but learned everything from him were these like dominique wilkins spud web days are we talking i'm not quite that old okay all right all right i'll say that my second year i won't i won't give you my age, but I'll say my second year in CSSU was the LeBron and Mello draft years. So that'll date me a little bit.

Yeah, just a little. So anyway, Turner Sports was great to me. Craig was great to me. I learned a lot down there. Shared time with some incredible writers and producers, namely Drew Watkins and Matt Mosteller. And we all came up together. And then my wife got a job offer in New York city. And, you know, I grew up in Virginia, lived in Atlanta.

I'd never lived North of the Mason Dixon really. So I was like, all right, let's try it. So I quit my job, moved to New York. I worked for a great company right when I came to New York called Maggie vision, who does a lot of work with ESPN and does the SPS NFL honors. And then went the agency side, you know, went brand side for a while with a company called Screen Vision. Then I've been with the NBA for the last year and a half or a little over. It felt like a homecoming, honestly, because I spent so much of my career working on the NBA product. It just felt like after eight years or seven years in New York City, it felt like I finally landed at a home.

It was where I was supposed to be. It's been great. What's been the transitioning from the NBA proper to 2K League, the video game side, which obviously the games have gotten so realistic. There's so much crossover, like we said. Scott calling the games and everything else in the league, the reality's there. But what was that transition like? Was it probably more seamless than you'd think? It was to a degree. The biggest thing I needed was an education in esports. It's a very tight community. It's a grassroots community. And I am an outsider to a degree. I mean, I play video

games. I have an Xbox, but to say I'm a gamer would be false, at least at the time. You know, I'm a casual gamer. And this is a real endeavor. This is a real practice. And this is a real career for so many. And so gaining education, earning the respect of the players and the league, gaining counsel, you counsel. Our managing director, Brendan Donahue, was incredible, getting me up to speed. Sam Asfahani, who had the role before me, who now has OS Studios here in New York, he would spend time with me and teach me some of the ins and outs that I didn't know. Our own internal team, a guy on my team, TJ Canty, he's incredible, gave me a ton of knowledge, really filled in the gaps. And then some outsiders too,

Ariel Horn and people like that. I sought a lot of knowledge, really filled in the gaps. And then some outsiders too, Ariel Horn and people like that. I sought a lot of counsel early on to learn the esports side of it because where you're talking about the transition from the NBA side, the part that was easy was storytelling is storytelling and unlocking a great story and telling a great story and giving people an incredible visual representation of a sport or a game. Those fundamentals remain. But it was making sure that I was being authentic and I really needed to learn core values and where players and teams and leagues come from. Once I sort of started to get that education, the storytelling became a little easier and it became much more automatic for me. I didn't have to think

through it as much. And look, the MBA is an awesome company, you know, resources and people to help you walk through these things. And it's really a great place to work. And the transition was made seamless for me. I didn't have to fight too hard. So talk, you know, down that path. And I do want to talk about some of the content. I've been enjoying that on the YouTube channel. That's where I,

I digest it. The frenememies, I watched that from last night. It's really interesting, the stories of the players and all that. There's such a lot of storytelling that I see there. Being in the business, it's really great. Talk about your role and what are the goals, ultimately? What does success look like, both your role and then what does success look like in that role of content media for you guys? Well, look, we're a small team, right? We're a startup within the NBA. So I think success is a number of different platforms. And for our marketing team or our league ops team, for our league overall, for our players and teams, there's probably different benchmarks that mark success.

for our players and teams, there's probably different benchmarks that, um, that, that marks success. But I think for the content and broadcast team, it would be, um, I'll put it this way. I, when ESPN came on, you know, during all this and we're on, you know, obviously the app all season long, and we've been on ESPN too, a number of times, um, the success for us actually looked like them saying, Hey, we're interested in this, but can you guys produce a show that belongs on ESPN? And our answer was yes. And they looked at our product, and we looked at our product, and everybody went, wow, you guys are producing a real thing here. And so I think that was the first measure of success for us was that we're not producing in a way that we feel we can get away with.

In fact, in many ways, we're overproducing and making it much more beautiful than it probably needs to be. And that felt really good to us when ESPN said, sure, no problem, let's get you on air. That felt like a really big measure of success for us, both creatively and artistically and narratively. And I think for us, that's the goal, at least on the content and broadcast side, is to continue to make really compelling content, despite the restrictions that we're faced with now with COVID. And keep pushing forward narratives, because honestly, our players

and our teams are awesome. They are some of the most compelling characters I've ever worked with in, in my, you know, 22 years in sports in broadcast. So, um, if we can continue to, to push those stories forward and find partners that help us tell those stories, um, that'll be successful. Yeah. I love it. And so in kind of the production now, I'd love to, you know, go down that path with the, you know, maybe using the obviously most logical ESPN2 connection. Like, I'm sure we could spend the entire episode talking about what it takes to pull that off or what brought that together. But I think it would be fascinating just to understand maybe a little bit to give our listeners kind of just how complex and or what that what is happening. You've got announcers at home. You have, you know, everyone I imagine is remote in some way. Maybe you have a core team, but talk to us about some of that production.

So we had about three or four weeks to figure out how to go from an arena in Hell's Kitchen that has a broadcast facility built in it to producing the same level of content and broadcast quality from 30 living rooms in two countries and in 22 states. So, yeah. No big deal. No big deal. No big deal. The first question was... Is there an app for that? Ironically, yes, there is. Some of our stuff is app based. It's there's this really cool app. I have my, my iPad that,

you know, I can pull up all of our camera angles and I can literally call shots from home. But you know, first stop was always, you know, game sanctity is always the first question. So first stop with us was league ops and they're an incredible team, you know, game sanctity is always the first question. So first up with us was League Ops and they're an incredible team. You know, Daniel and Brad on that side of our league, you know, they made sure that, and obviously our partners at Take-Two, they made sure the game was going to be stable. We could do it. We knew we could pull it off from a gameplay perspective. And then it was, okay, let's stack the broadcast on top of it. And what we did was we ended up building 23 mobile broadcast units. So, um, you know, we call them fly packs and essentially we said, what are the base materials we need for someone to broadcast from their living room? And, and we got this stack of components and our, our partners at DeFacto who produce our show with us, um,

were incredible at, at helping us synthesize and figure out what are those, what are those core elements? And we built 23 fly packs and we sent it to the 23 teams. And then de facto then, you know, figured out a broadcast strategy that would take in all these feeds, understanding that they're going to be coming off of 23 different wifi signals, strengths, you know, whatever they're, it's all completely variable. And it's not only variable by who has what bandwidth available, but then what's the weather like, what's the traffic light in that region. What's, you know, it's, it's insane. Um, so we built it all into a hub, uh, and we've got it, um,

being produced half in Vancouver at DeFacto's headquarters. And the other half, our core on the back end is out of Toronto, um, at the Rogers center there. Um. We've got our TD and our A1 sitting in a room there and making sure that whatever gets pushed through the pipeline on fiber that goes to our platform partners, whether it's ESPN or Twitch or YouTube, that they're getting a concise, mixed, synced, official HD product. And that's how we run our operation. And we have three and a half weeks to figure it out. So that's, you know, yeah, right. And then not to mention your point, Scott is in South Carolina and his home and, uh,

Dirk, the caster is at his home in Illinois. So we had to build, you know, two more fly packs for them. And then we built two spare fly packs. We bring in Julian Vianney or area power sometimes as guest casters. Uh, so we have these floating fly packs that we use and we. We bring in Julianne Vianney or Ariel Powers sometimes as guest casters. So we have these floating fly packs that we use when we want to bring in extra voices. And then we figured out, you know, how can we integrate Skype and any other way to sort of connect to a broadcast to bring in special guests. Our graphics department, you know, we use a company called Heiser, a guy named Matt McLeod out of Houston, who built a show that would look like it. We'd produced it in a, in a broadcast facility, but it's being run out of everybody's living room. And, um,

I'm here in New York and half the team is spread out across New York and in different places. Um, yeah, we're making it work. I'm hearing a story within the story here. I hope someone's documenting what, what it took to, uh, I think if we go back and document it, we're all going to get PTSD. I think we just documenting what it took to make all the calls. I think if we go back and document it, we're all going to get PTSD. I think we just got to keep moving forward. Exactly. So talk about the partnership with ESPN, what that's been like. I mean, I can only imagine those having the eyeballs. And I know that you've had other on-air content before COVID, but

what's that been like? What's that done for you guys? And what's been the reaction to the, to the more mainstream live broadcast? Look, it's, I can't say enough about them as, as partners, that the people that we work with on the ESPN side have been absolutely awesome. And I think, you know, we were, we worked incredibly hard to be ready for whatever eventuality came during this process. So we're incredibly proud that they thought the product was

a great product to put on their air. And, you know, since the initial announcement, ESPN has picked up an additional 21 nights on ESPN2 alone. And of course we're on the app the whole time throughout the season. So I think that's a testament to how we've been able to work together and how we've been able to grow the product together. They've had input on different advancements in different content storylines in the broadcast that do hideous PM2. And we take those suggestions very seriously. And we've, you know, we've, we've in many ways, when we're on air with them, we're, we're working on the show together.

And they've just been awesome creative partners. From the linear side, we're really proud because we're obviously meeting a new audience every night that we're with them. And we're hearing that feedback and we're seeing people come back from the ESPN2 broadcast into, we'll find some in our Twitch chat and we'll find them following us as we go on different platforms on different nights. And so like anything in life, it just comes down to opportunity. And we're just really proud that we were a given the opportunity and that we were prepared to step up to the

challenge when the opportunity was presented. So I, uh, I've, we've been overjoyed with what we've seen with them. What's, um, you know, the future stories both on broadcast and like I mentioned your, your series on, you know, you, I, I digest on YouTube. Locked in. Yeah. You know, but talk about maybe that, and that's what, you know, sponsored by AT&T, uh, we'll give them a shout out. Um, they seem to do a good job with it. So, um, and, and I've enjoyed kind of getting, I'd love to know, you know, what brings to life those stories and, you know, obviously the players themselves, like you said, are so dynamic or more than, than you've maybe even realized. Um,

but what kind of goes into kind of bringing those stories to life? A couple of things. Um, you know, one is I appreciate the shout out for AT&T, but the truth is they deserve a lot of credit because they're not just a partner with a name on the show. They've really helped us produce the show this year because Locked In is a series we created last season. And we spent a lot of time and effort traveling and shooting and filming. And, you know, it's a full on immersive production for 18 weeks. and filming and you know it's it's a full-on immersive production for 18 weeks um how do you make that show in season you know how do you give that show a season two when we're all you know isolated in quarantine at&t became an active participant in the production communication and they gave us um like we're at like 20 different fully loaded prepped phones that they shipped to

us with AT&T service. And so we use those phones to record the show. We ship them to the teams or players. They're fully ready to, to, to upload the footage back to us, to a server using AT&T service. Um, all the footage for the most part is shot on these AT&T phones. Um, and they became an actual production partner, you know, to solve this problem with us. Um, and which has been amazing because we figured out how to produce, you know, a full show during a time where we couldn't be face to face with anybody. We talked about sacred cows, uh, production quality,

like all these things that have been there for so long that like, Oh, we have to shoot it with the 4k and like this and have this. And I gotta have, you know, uh, I gotta have craft services over here and all. I mean, good grief. It's like the reality is that you could tell a story. The content makes the story. The quality is secondary or fifth. It is and it isn't. I will fight back.

I'll argue with you on that one for one reason. One thing we said going into this was we're going to get a lot of free passes. We're going to get a lot of excuses for quality. And I don't know if this makes it fun to work with me or difficult to work with me, but I refuse to accept any of those excuses. We still dedicate a ton of quality. I don't know if you hear my computer dinging, but it's 5.02, so obviously there's an emergency somewhere. too. So obviously there's an emergency somewhere. Um, uh, I saw, I'll start over with you, but I, you know, the truth is I'll fight you on that a little bit in that, in that, um, the quality matters. And so we have an incredible production partner in a company called mall media here in

New York city that does a lot of our shoot and edit all of our edit. And, um, you know, we dedicated the same energy to the craft as we would have otherwise. Uh, we just recognized that we were doing it a little differently, but we still dedicate a ton to the edit as we would have otherwise. We just recognized that we were doing it a little differently, but we still dedicate a ton to the edit and graphics and sound mix and design. And we want to make sure that we're still producing high quality content, despite the free pass that might be out there collectively in the greater ecosystem. We're still going to push a really high quality product. And I think you're seeing that in LockedIn. And to answer your second question about like,

where do we find those stories? One is we're, we're just really dedicated to paying attention to more than just the X's and O's. And we've got this great guy, Graham Borden, who's our community ambassador goes online by black, Frank white. He's, he's, you know, knows everybody in the community knows everybody in the 2k community and the 2k league. And he's a huge asset to have on our team because he can bring those stories to the surface for us too hey you guys really got to look at this person you guys really got to look at this team hey i've been talking to some players over here and they're doing this really cool thing and so we're able to unearth stories in this very organic way because it's all coming from a very real place you know we're not just making cold

calls to teams and being like hey you got anything? We, we, we actively know what's going on by, by continuing these conversations. And so we chased down a lot of these stories that a, you wouldn't normally hear and B aren't necessarily tied to wins and losses and X's and O's. I love it is, um, and, and by quality, I don't mean time in, in production, but more, mean but smart whether it's a smartphone or uh you know a uh twenty thousand or hundred thousand dollar red camera it's true and what we're learning is but what we're i wouldn't say we're learning but what we're what what you know guys like me and you are finally being able to affirm is that a good story is what matters there's there's no more tricks there's no more bells and whistles it just raw truth that's what matters. There's, there's no more tricks. There's no more bells and whistles. It just draw truth. That's what matters.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Is, um, what's the, um, it's so hard to think past COVID and not that it even matters necessarily, but what's, what's kind of the future hold for you guys with, with, with the league and you know, what can we, is there anything you can share that we should be expecting as far as content or stories or different things like that?

Yeah, I mean, look, you know, growth for us is, you can see it in real time, right? Season one was 17 teams. Season two is 21 teams. Season three is 23 teams with the first international and traditional esports franchise,

you know, Gen.G Shanghai Tigers. So, or Tigers from Shanghai and, you know, international qualG, Shanghai Tigers, or Tigers from Shanghai, and, you know, international qualifiers. So I don't think there's any gray area there. I think it's pretty easy to see that, you know, active hint that we want to be a truly global league with divisions in Asia and Europe. And Gen.G was a huge first step in that, you know, they're obviously helping us even with player identification, you know, in different regions. And so I think that from a league perspective is what you're already seeing. From the content and broadcast side, I think, you know, just continue to get bigger and badder.

You know, we have a virtual studio now, so that's been a fun thing coming out of this COVID era. But I think we'll continue to experiment with virtual technologies and remote productions, even when we don't have to, because now we know we can, and there's tons of value to it. And I think just, you know, obviously continuing to find more distribution platforms that, you know, want to play with us. You know, ESPN has been a great example of that. We've got EGG in Southeast Asia and Sportsnet in Canada. We've just been able to make really great relationships and find some cool distribution that's given us access to a whole new audience, you know, in different places. So I think you'll continue to see that, you know, that level of growth, I think. And as far as

production, you know, in process, you'll continue to see more one-on-one content so we can explain the game and the league to people who are joining us for the first time or, you know, the first few times. I love this series, seconds with, with Autumn Johnson, that's sponsored by Tissot. I think we'll see more content like that with, you know, quick fire, snackable, learn more about our players. We've got this new series behind the screens with Jeff Eisenman, which takes a deeper dive, you know,

spends more time with players and understanding how they became to became e-sports professionals. I think those are important stories to tell. And you've got the final four episodes of locked in still in production. So I don't want to give away too many hints on those, but you see some fun storylines and story. And I think, you know, later in the season, you'll see storylines that are tied to more to our core principles and some of the pillars of our own growth and what we can do with e-sports and the gaming

community at large. So, you know, just a couple of things do with e-sports and the gaming community at large. So, you know, just a couple of things to work on from our living rooms. Just a couple, just a couple. Are we going to see more linear with e-sports? It seems like it's coming fast. I mean, as a whole, it seems like that's the next frontier, maybe, or amongst many. Yeah, I think you'll see see i think it'll become much more part of the you know general fair um you know you obviously see finn coming online here in august soon um i saw the leaked teaser trailer for g4 so i guess that's coming back so i think you know there's um i think all the signs point to greater opportunity for greater distribution for esports and and gamers.

So I'm encouraged by everything we're seeing. And I think, you know, we're, we're right in the mix with it. I think we're an awesome product that I, you know, hopefully we find homes in all these places. Yeah. Is, um, is, you know, the interesting thing with e-sports is just so the ecosystem is so large with the games and the segments and the, you know, the interesting thing with e-sports is just so, the ecosystem is so large with the games and the segments and the, you know, I mean, I know the foundation is with more of the shoot them up games, as I call them. And, you know, but, and it's be, I'll go down that route. I've asked every guest that we've had on.

I have four boys under the age of 11 and they all are gamers so uh do they have a future uh a career in this like my 11 yard girl specifically wants to wants to know so i'm asking every guest is this you know it seems like it might be closer than it ever was but uh is this a career path esports for for sure. I mean, look, and I think even broader than gameplay, I think what we're realizing is that like, you know, marketing professionals and league operations and developers and, you know, I think the career paths that esports has opened up is so much broader than just becoming a gamer and a professional game player. You know, everything from people who were used to traditional television production

to content creators to, you know, CROs, CMOs, like, you know, these are businesses that are going to continue to grow. And I think that the multitude of careers that can be attached to esports is limitless right now. I would say 100% this is a career that can be attached to esports is limitless right now um i would say 100 this is a this is a career that that'll be there for them when they're ready to join the workforce and take my job from me yeah all right well well we'll see hopefully we're uh both uh retired and on a beat somewhere but i think we're about the same age. What's your perspective on the whole for esports and the growth? It seems like the mainstream is here.

I still wonder, and I don't want to get into the whole issue of violence and all that, but it just seems like, and that's why I love what you guys are doing. I'm pushing my kids more into the sports side. I, because look, I'm at the end of the day, I think, uh, you know, people hurt people, games don't hurt people. And, you know, it's like, you got to teach them right for wrong and all those things. But is that going to be a holdup for brands and things, you know, I mean, the violent side of it, I mean, it seems like it could be, I don't know. I don't.

As a father, I think, you know, I'd probably answer it differently than, than, you know, as in my role, but I think ultimately what we're finding is two things. One, I would say, with all that aside, I just, I love our product and I love that we're rated E for everyone and we're, we're having a good time with a great sport. But I also think that when you talk about the mainstream, I don't know that there is a mainstream anymore. I think there's something

for everyone now. And I think niche markets are important. And so whether or not everything that we're talking about becomes globally massive, everyone, you know, tons of eyeballs, I don't know what the future looks like. I don't even know what, you know, what ratings look like in the future. It doesn't necessarily matter because I think niche markets and powerful niche markets will be very interesting to the future of media. And so we're just going to keep cranking on the thing that we love. And we are really happy with what we're seeing so far. And we're just going to keep grinding because our fans love it. We're finding new fans every day and we think we're providing a really cool product and we're focused on that. I love it. I love it. Matt, man, it's been awesome.

I appreciate your insights, your transparency with everything going on with the league. The storytelling is awesome, whether it's remote or not. I don't think the average eye would know because the stories

are compelling. The players are compelling. The league itself, you know, seems limitless for where you guys can take it. So really appreciate your time and coming on today. Thank you very much for having me. I mean, I appreciate the opportunity. The fact that you guys are taking notice of it is really cool. So thank you very much. Yeah, it's been great. Hey, this is Ryan Alford, host of the Radcast. Really appreciate Matt Arden coming on today to talk all things NBA 2K League. Follow more, just Google NBA 2K League. They're right there at the top. You can learn more about the league and everything that going,

they have going on and go follow their series on YouTube. It's great content. This is Ryan Alord. We'll see you next time. To listen to full episodes or to contact us, visit us on the web at theradcast.com or follow our host at Ryan Offord on Instagram. Thanks for tuning in.