Right About Now with Ryan Alford - Neurology in Marketing: The Art of Human Understanding with The Science of Execution

Episode Date: April 21, 2021

In this episode on The Radcast, host Ryan Alford talks with Samrat Saran, Head of Client Solutions at Neuro-Insight, discusses how to optimize the creative when telling your brand's story. Samrat and Ryan both agree that marketers should represent the consumer first, then the branding and creativity will follow.These are the topics in today's episode:Branding with understanding (data, your customers, etc.).How to keep the narrative on social media fresh.The most effective ways to leverage branding.Dissecting a brand's social media presence (on apps like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube).Keep up with neurology in marketing by following Neuro-Insights here!If you enjoyed this episode of The Radcast, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe and share the word if you love our podcast, so we can keep giving you the strategies to achieve radical marketing results! You can follow us on Instagram @the.rad.cast | @radical_results | @ryanalford | If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, join Ryan’s newsletter https://ryanalford.com/newsletter/ to get Ferrari level advice daily for FREE.  Learn how to build a 7 figure business from your personal brand by signing up for a FREE introduction to personal branding https://ryanalford.com/personalbranding.  Learn more by visiting our website at www.ryanisright.comSubscribe to our YouTube channel  www.youtube.com/@RightAboutNowwithRyanAlford. 

you're listening to the radcast if it's radical we cover it here's your host ryan alford hey guys what's up welcome to the latest edition of the radcast it's ryan alford your host and we're here in the lovely greenville south carolina studios the radcast. It's Ryan Offord, your host, and we're here in the lovely Greenville, South Carolina studios, the Radcast home, which is radical, the raddest, baddest, coolest marketing agency on the planet. Just saying that, just in case you didn't know. So I'm here with Samrat Samran again, head of client solutions at Neuro Insight, and we're going to break down neuro in marketing. And if you're going, what is neuro? Well, you're about to get brainy, my friend.

Samrat, what's up, my man? How's it going, Ryan? It's great to be back. Hey, man. I really enjoyed our TikTok discussion, and I'm stoked to kind of get into the impact of the brain in marketing, and maybe even more broadly than that, just some ways that brands should be thinking about content creation and branding across the ecosystem of social media and the like.

So I'm stoked to have you on, man. Absolutely. My pleasure. We've always thought that the decisions we make in life are conscious, like from the moment we wake up and we say, I want to have a cup of coffee to what we're going to have for lunch, to how we're going to celebrate the afternoon. the truth is 90% of our decision-making is happening in our subconscious. And our subconscious is that meta computer behind our brain that is constantly processing every piece of information you're getting something as small as a little watermark logo, a piece of paper that you get in direct mail to all the ads that you're seeing that you don't even realize that you remember. And the subconscious

is taking that information filtering it down saying all right this feels good this feels engaging this we should pay a little bit more attention to and that then gets transferred to the conscious brain when the time to make a decision comes up so when you ask somebody hey what are you going to have for dinner and they are like oh i don't know i'll see what i'm in the mood for what they're basically saying is my subconscious is still trying to figure out uh what we feel as an individual we want to do and what we're hearing right now that will make me will get me in the mood then when i tell you that i'm going to have pizza today i'm going to rationalize it with.

Well, yeah, because pizza is my favorite food. It's been a long day. I just want something easy. And the rationalization process starts. Are we talking about the voices in my head? Are we talking about marketing? I don't know, sir. The voices in your head are the impact of multiple subconscious going on.

Oh, man, it's getting scary already. But that's what Neuro does is we try to understand the subconscious of the brain and how that is trying to understand the world. And from a marketer's perspective that is uh in essence what you are trying to communicate with and for the longest time we've always thought about it as let me give you a rational argument or let me give you a lifestyle-based argument and hopefully you'll consider me but it's not the same. And especially now with things completely fragmenting, our world is no longer the pyramid world of marketing where it was. I start at the apex with TV advertising, and then I broadcast across channels.

It's an ecosystem style marketing now where everything feeds everything else. And in that world, the subconscious is more pressured to make decisions faster. And then the stories that are the simplest, that are the most engaging, that are the most touching and the most relevant. Those are the stories that win. And for brands, that is what you're trying to get to. And that's where we come in. Yeah. that is what you're trying to get to.

And that's where we come in. Yeah. And historically, you know, I have sat through in a, in a, I call it a separate life, but having been in this game for 20 years and in living in the rat race, that is New York city where I know that's home in some part for you is I have sat through more focus groups than I care to admit for a number of brands. As you just described, you try to ask people what they think about an ad or an advertisement

in a rational way. You framed it up perfect. So you ask people, hey, we're going to show you five ads and we want you to get your natural reactions to them. And it's always felt a bit flawed. I felt like, depending on the client that we were working with, we could work the room whichever way we wanted.

What concept do we really want to sell in here? I could almost tell what was going to happen before it happened uh go figure uh but again asking people what they think about an ad in the moment with no other uh you know variables no other metrics involved always felt very flawed and you are right because i would be sitting as your opponent in that same room coming in from the insights world where I work for Pepsi and Anheuser-Busch being like, I'm looking at these concepts. I think some of them have potential. Some of them are more important for business reasons. And I know some are the things that the creatives love.

And I know some are the things that the creatives love. And if I have six people come into the room every single time, the creatives are going to go for the one or two comments that two people have made. The business folks are going to come in for the two comments that people are making. And then as an insights person, you're trying to figure out what all these six are saying. But when I go to a barber and I say, hey, listen, what do you think about this hairstyle? And will it suit me? Well, one, it won't suit me because I don't have much hair left.

But the barber or the hairstylist can tell you exactly, you know, based on the texture of your hair, based on their own skillset, how that's going to work. If a focus group was conducted with creatives or with business people and you were asking them for their opinion, I think the focus group would work great because these are people that are trained to think holistically about the solution.

When you're talking to somebody who isn't trained in this field, you are putting too much pressure on them to be able to articulate what they're feeling and then rationalizing that with cause. And in certain things, like when you're doing behavioral studies where you're like, hey, what do you do every day? And they're like, well, you know, this is my routine. These are the brands I like. This is why I started to choose them. That part makes sense because they have built habits. They're the, well, you know, this is my routine. These are the brands I like. This is why I started to choose them. That part makes sense because they have built habits. They're the experts in themselves.

But when you're trying to understand true consumer reaction, you need to go into the subconscious and you need to understand what's happening within the subconscious. And we talked about this. The processes are pretty much the same platform to platform. Whether you're talking about TV, you're talking about radio, out of home, or social media platforms like TikTok. We first have a reaction on, hey, do I like this? And that's your approach withdrawal response taking place of, do I want to lean in and listen more? It is something that

we measure then it goes over to engagement what am i hearing is that actually relevant to me that is also a part of your brain in fact we have seen studies where if you're walking down the street and you see some a face that you recognize in new york city out of the millions the engagement part of the brain kicks in saying, hey, I think we recognize them. We should pay a little bit more attention. You then sense a feeling of emotion. And all of that, then depending on the way the story was told, will get into memory. Now you can either have the narrative of the story go into memory where you're like, oh, wow, that was a great story. I loved it.

I just wish what I knew what brand it was for, which means the narrative went through. Or you can have a story that just gets the brand through. Yeah, I remember, you know, I remember this Doritos commercial. It was really funny on Super Bowl. Or you can have a story that breaks through both the narrative and on branding. And when you have that, whether it's on TV, on radio or an out of home anywhere, that's when you've created a moment of connection. And you can only see that when you're studying all those neural patterns that we study. can only see that when you're studying all those uh neural patterns that we study and over the course of the years that we've been doing this we've studied over 30 000 ads across platforms

we have seen that most brands even now are more focused on the brand part of it which is i just want my brand to get through the creatives are always focused on the narrative side of things. And you're hoping this fight will get the story to become better. But most often than not, it actually ends up tilting one way or the other. And I'm sure you have great stories on this as well. Oh, my God. You know, I'm remembering, I mean, you know, it happens daily, but how do we get our logo in there more? You know, like that statement alone, I'm not going to name like the name, but I remember a certain client when I was in the middle of my career.

I guess I'm still in the middle of my career, but in the early middle of my career, and it's ingrained in my head, like we need the logo bigger. We need the logo bigger. And, you know, like when it was a TV spot, you know, can we get the branding, you know, showing a little bit sooner? It's the age old fight, you know, and creative rights, you know, a nice spot and you spend the, you know, and that's the first, you know, couple of weeks. This is back in the old day. We move a lot quicker now.

But first, you know, you write the spot. It's a really good spot. The client sees it. Then you spend four weeks back and forth in how much brand we can get into it. And what the client never completely grasps. And what the client never completely grasps. And, you know, there's always, it's not that there's a right and a wrong here and coming from the agency perspective. But it's more the agency, I think, the good agencies and myself, I like to, I want to put us in this camp. We're not representing ourselves.

We're representing the consumer for you. And when you put the consumer first, then everything comes together. And what the brands do is they think about themselves first. And look, they're trying to sell. Everyone's got pressure. You've got marketing department and marketing spend, and they've got the CMOs,

the fastest guy fired at every organization. Like, I get it. But what they don't understand, though, is the consumer perspective is always the best perspective. And if they aren't getting the story, they don't care about the brand can come through. And, you know, our Cadbury story that we talked about in the last episode is point blank. You know, Gorilla playing in the air tonight, you know, on the drums has nothing to do with Cadbury. The light brand mentioned at the end. And to a Cadbury, the light brand mentioned

at the end. And we see that that's the highest scoring ad in like the history of your study. And you're making the right point. It is not about branding frequently. It is about branding at the right moment. It is the same way that you come into a room and you announce yourself to a group of strangers and you're like, hi, I am Joe and I am the greatest solution to all your problems. How many people will want to pay attention? Everyone. Right. But if Joe comes in and says, hey guys, how's's it going let me tell you a really interesting story you know i was walking the other day and i happened to meet this really interesting person uh who gave me this really interesting story and these are all the interesting facts about it

oh by the way i'm joe and this is what i do this is how i ran into it i still made the introduction of who i am but the interweaving of the narrative as to why I'm at the party starts to make it much more interesting the the challenge I think with creatives is also struggling to how do you keep narrative fresh because the one thing about the subconscious is it doesn't like repetition. If I have seen a story one way, and I continue to see the same format happening, I just start to turn off. That's why when they did Cadbury's the second time with other characters, it never worked. And

in this challenge with creatives, sometimes they push too far. And that has another impact on the advertisement. So when we come in, we actually our process is very different. So depending on platform, depending on the kind of story you want to tell, whether it's an equity story or whether it's a true product story, we actually sit down with the creatives first and we say, give us your vision. What do you want to make people feel? And from there, we actually help craft the story with them. So we think of ourselves not as market researchers, but as co-editors in the process. Some creatives love us for this.

Some creatives are like, you're stepping on our toes. Get out of our sandbox. Get out of our sandbox. Exactly. What we say is, listen, we can't come up with a creative solution, but we can tell you where your vision's falling short in execution. And that, I think, is the place where Neuro actually comes in. But we can tell you where your vision's falling short in execution. And that, I think, is the place where neuro actually comes in. It helps combine the art of human understanding with the science of execution.

And that has been that missing link within the industry. And you probably have seen this as well. The same thing that works on TV, that 30 seconds doesn't work on YouTube. The 15 second doesn't work on any other platform. And you can just convert that into audio and play it on radio. Each story, each format is different.

There was like a violin playing. Then it was soft music to my ears. As you said that, I just came out of a meeting and part of my daily sales and targeting and all this, we'll get to the creative and the story. And that's just flawed thinking. Great advertising and marketing is the blend of the art and the science. And it's a lost art, especially, is the creative storytelling side, and it's so important still. And you have to think about the story in chapters. There are stories that you tell,

like you will tell a part of the story on a particular medium. The rest of the story happens in the other mediums. And when people see the whole story, they're like, wow, I completely get it. That's right. Now, each story has to, each chapter has to stand on its own merits. That's important. But you cannot expect a chapter to deliver the full book. And that's where clients get stuck because they think they got to say it

all and they got to say it all the same way. You know, they're so used to cramming the 30 second spot that says it all. Maybe if it's, you know, they try to, and then you lose the story and then they want to jam that into the Facebook video, you know? And and listen i think it worked in the 1960s when there were three channels right and people would watch the same ads basically on repetition and probably worked all the way up to the 90s as well and it probably worked better in the 90s when there were 200 channels that's right but now that's not the case because now there's not 200. You're talking about 20 million. From what you're seeing on buses with the banner ads over there to what you see on billboards to what you hear on radio for even a few minutes. And you cannot communicate everything.

Cannot communicate everything. And there's a philosophy that we have. That we have actually seen. Work a lot for our clients. Which is called the theory of iconic triggers. Here's a question for you Ryan. What is your most. If I asked you to think about.

Lion King the movie. What's the first scene that comes into your head? The father. I remember. I forget the names. But I guess the father dying or something and simba i don't know that or the fight between the the father the brothers all right but now when you start to think about that scene the movie is slowly coming into your head yes you're starting to picture the scenes before and after. And that is what you call an iconic moment of a scene,

of a movie, or an iconic moment of any story. Same thing happens when we read books. We don't remember right from the beginning all the way to the end. We might remember the book cover. We might remember a certain character. We might remember a certain scene. That is how the brain stores information. so our subconscious creates these little mini hooks and from those hooks

the rest of the narrative gets built if you actually thought of your advertising the same way create mini hooks that complete the story but that mini hook is what's common across it is not the full story that's common and the way we get to those moments is when we're studying tv advertising or when we're studying radio or when we're studying out of home or actually even digital we are looking for those most iconic moments of the ad where all the parts of the subconscious and this is the subconscious not what the eyes are looking at or what the face is expressing or what you know your sweat glands are sweating more it's not biometrics this is your true subconscious and we're the ones we're the only ones who can do it when you create a scene that is so iconic that this is what people will most likely remember about your ad.

We then say, this is your hook now. Now use this hook to complete the stories across all the other channels. What that does is if you see it for the first time on digital, you'll see that hook. Now, if you happen to see it on TV, all of a sudden that memory is created even stronger. You see it out of home. Again, the memory is created even stronger. And with a small marketing budget, you have effectively increased your ROI. And you've told a great narrative. And you've made great branding.

And these are the ways that you make great marketing happen. It is not when you try and push your logo everywhere. Well, you've got to entertain on some level and or create a moment that's entertaining. And, you know, it's interesting when I think about the iconic hooks, you know, I'm going to ask a couple of questions myself. So would you consider, so I think of, and we're talking and trying to help, you know, small to medium businesses, you know, narrow down on these things, but I'm going to talk about a big business here for a second. Is the iconic hook for a campaign like Progressive, is it flow? Is she the iconic hook or is just the comedic part of each one of those spots?

So that is a great question because an iconic trigger moment could be one of many things. It could be a specific audio cue. It could be a visual face to the brand. cue it could be a visual face to the brand uh it could be the the specific uh climax of a story or it could even be the introduction sequence and that's the beauty of the subconscious is that it will anything can be an iconic moment when it is executed correctly. With Flo, for example, in Progressive, she became an iconic moment. She became

a symbol. And then her in the comedic positions became those iconic triggers. But when Flo first came on, when the Verizon guy first came on, when the Gecko first came on, they were just characters. Yep.

And this is also a part of storytelling that I think small and medium business could probably benefit a lot from is do not try to make a campaign for a year with just the idea of I'm going to sell. Because you're always going to be in that fight and marketing and sales have to be thought about differently. Sales is the art of selling. Marketing is the art of storytelling to have to enable sales. If I had my soundboard right now and I had an amen key, amen, you know, like, oh, I don't know how much time you spent in the church, in the church pew. But I grew up in the south and the Southern Baptists and there'd be, you know, the deacons would be amen when the pastor would say something good. Amen. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. That's you just said it. So, yes, I would have given you a hallelujah and an amen on all of that.

You don't know how many times I have to convince client even today that sales and marketing are separate. And unfortunately, when you confuse the two, you don't do justice to both. And there is a part of marketing that lives within sales that happens at the point of selling and point of buying. But the art of storytelling is not the same. And I have found many examples. And this is not just small and medium businesses, which sometimes I feel are actually much better at sales-driven marketing at the point of buying and selling. companies where marketers also confuse that when you get into a store that you should not be doing the same equity-based marketing that you're doing on TV or on a broadcast media or on social media. And I think that the tension is real because it's happening on both sides, not just from one department. That's right. I see it all the time.

So how many times a week you have to explain the difference between neuro and other forms of research? Probably three times a day. My doctors recommended to do it less. do it less. I think neuromarketing, from what I first remember, I was driving back home from the office and there was a show on the radio talking about neuromarketing. And this was about 10 or 12 years ago. And things have picked up dramatically since then from people not understanding the concept of neuromarketing to now everyone claiming that they do neuromarketing i've had uh people come up and pitch to me while i was uh at anheuser-busch and at pepsi where well we study micro expressions on the face as qualitative focus group moderators. And that's a form of neuromarketing.

We'd study eye tracking and that's a form of neuromarketing. No, it's not because you're, you're just seeing where the eye is going. Yeah. That's the, that's the conscious. That's not the subconscious. Exactly. And just because, so here's a fantastic way of explaining eye tracking to you let me give you an encyclopedia and let me ask you to go through a page everything that you have seen on a page where there's the picture the words does that mean now that it's imprinted in the conscious brain the subconscious brain no all it says is where my eyes are going those Those are great for diagnosing when you're doing,

um, uh, you know, packaging design or when you're doing something that is related to, uh, navigation cues. Yeah. Website UI, all that kind of stuff. So those, it helps you figure out the paths, but beyond that, if you try and use it further in trying to create behavior, it doesn't work. People then talk about running instrumentation that will study your heart rate and your sweat glands, and they call it galvanic skin response. It is basically a measure of your best arousal. So when you're watching a movie and it's a horror film and you want to hear something about that, fine, those things could work. But when you're trying to create advertising, when there is a particular point to this story, those systems don't work. door those systems don't work and trying to explain to clients that just because somebody claims it's neural doesn't make it neural the same way uh you just because somebody says that

they you know understand a little bit of science doesn't make them a doctor uh you should be actually asking the question do you really study the subconscious or do you study some other part of it? And some measurement of a physical reaction that might be happening, because what you're, how you react to something physically versus what you're thinking are many times, not exactly the same. Yes. And so when you're working with clients, you know, when I think about, you know, what you guys do in evaluating, especially when we think back to some of the, you know, TikTok work and the Super Bowl work and some of those things, I think about you guys evaluating

and help, you know, you put the brain pads on, you're evaluating the subconscious to give people feedback on those things. But are there, are there like, you know, you guys have been doing this a long time. You're the experts in the field. Are there, and I know you did this with the, with some of the TikTok study and things like that, but like, are there takeaways that then you guys bundle for clients in helping them holistically improve their marketing and creative outputs? You know, are there like, I know every campaign is different. So you've got, you know, you got a writer and an art director, you know, working on a campaign and putting it together and it's specific to a product or service. But are there, you know, call it, you know, four keys, five keys, two keys. Are there, are there things that you

universally kind of recommend to companies or agencies or otherwise in that process? Yeah. So what we do is first and foremost, we make sure that your branding comes through. And branding doesn't mean that you slap the logo on the whole time. We are specifically looking for your most dominant branding moment. And have you told a story that actually gets it to that point where people are like, I'm interested in knowing what this brand is. that point where people are like, I'm interested in knowing what this brand is. And that is the core focus of what we say as a marketer, you should be focused on. Otherwise, what you'll end up doing is you'll create a narrative that nobody cares about, and you've just lost marketing dollars, or you're creating a narrative that

will benefit the category, but not you. Because you might create a great ad for insurance, but I don't know what brand created that narrative. And now I'm just going online and I'm looking at different insurance companies. So you just advertised for the art category. Oh, you just struck another nerve in me. I remember I used to do BDI, CDI studies. Remember those terms? Oh, yeah. So category development and brand development.

And sometimes, you know, like for a startup, there's no category awareness. And so you have to elevate the whole category. But when it's very established, like I remember in the days of wireless, you know, like I was in doing wireless in 2001 and we had to do some category development because, you know, other than people that were working that had bag phones, you know, because they had to be mobile and they were aware of it. There was not universal awareness of cell phone, the category itself. And so Verizon Wireless spent millions of dollars in category development, even though there were other players coming in, but they had to do it.

And, you know, how much was spent on category versus brand. We did all these BDI, CDI studies and, you know, in a new business, when it like, when Uber came around, they had to elevate the category, right? Because it didn't exist. And so anyway. And the question then becomes like, what is right share? How does this work? Like you have those category questions and there is a time for that, but in an established category, it's about differentiation and you have to be able to bring your brand out uh so that's the first thing and there are many many principles to what makes good branding and some of them i think tyler's talking uh talked about and we just published in the frontiers of neuroscience a phenomena that happens which is called conceptual closure conceptual closure correct exactly yep and conceptual closure basically means that you

have told the story the brain thinks now that the story has come to an end and it takes a you know a couple of seconds to sit and process everything that it's heard starting to filter out what it wants what it doesn't want and during those two seconds you've shown brand so the two seconds in the ad when you're basically giving the brain a pause is when you showed branding and a lot of people do this it starts with fade to black slow down the music um you know show people going away into the horizon things that were like oh we're completing the story no you're not completing the story you're ending the story and to date this is 10 years we've been watching this happen. And for the last 10 years, that was the biggest principle that we were talking about was avoid this. And there are techniques to how you avoid conceptual closure.

There are techniques to how you make sure that conceptual closure doesn't impact branding because it's normal for the brain to take many breaks and process information. doesn't impact branding because it's normal for the brain to take mini breaks and process information. And there are techniques that we have where even if conceptual closure is happening, we can try and mitigate the response on branding. So that's the most fundamental and basic way that we protect ROI for brands and try to still preserve narrative. And for us, the narrative integrity and the creative's vision is very important. So once we have branding, now we start the second principle is on the creative vision. How do we tell the story the way the creative wants to tell it? And sometimes it is small scenes. A simple scene can change and make a huge difference in the way an ad performs.

And we actually have seen this time and again where a wrong pause, a wrong look, had changed how people perceive the brand. We don't. And the idea is how do you create a great ad with minimal changes to an ad? So that's the second principle we have. And then the third one is when we are in the storyboard or animatic phase, depending on platform. We actually guide creatives on if your screen time makes a huge difference on the way you process information. If I were to give you a 10 point email on a laptop, you're going to actually read and remember things differently than if i gave you a 10 point email and asked you to read it on your phone because the parts of your subconscious that actually

get engaged depending on screen type are different so storytelling has to be different and we work with creatives and brand teams to basically fine-tune the ideas in the development phase against screen types. So those are principles that we have. And no story is the same. No idea can be replicated identically. And brand and narrative have a huge impact on the execution. So to back up one second. So creative closure.

I'm backing up. Conceptual closure. Creative closure. Concept closure. Conceptual closure. We're trying to avoid that. Am I hearing you correctly? Because we don't want people thinking the story's over. I mean, help me. I think I understand it, but it helped me help explain on layman's terms, like the the reason we're trying to avoid that when we're doing marketing and advertising.

So we don't we're not trying to avoid it. We're trying to avoid it before branding. to avoid it we're trying to avoid it before branding before the branding i got it so thus the story ends okay now i'm with you so we just told a funny or sad or interesting story through in whatever format and then we fade to black and show the logo so it's it's uh then because then you're kind of shutting off instead of being included in the message that is exactly and that's the most basic way because think about movies you watch a movie it fades to black screen credits come on what do you do you leave the screen yeah no one watches the credits unless you did something like what marvel's that marvel did and said oh by the way there is a scene at the end that you need to wait and watch. Yes. Yes. I love that.

People waited five, six minutes. And I mean, that is, uh, I think that is the magic of storytelling. Like you create these new ones and that's the best part about conceptual closure is you think you've solved for conceptual closure because you've done

it a few times, but because advertising changes at it a few times. But because advertising changes at such a rapid pace, what was causing conceptual closure and we're creatures of habit. So what was causing conceptual closure in the past couple of years because of a learned habit actually has now changed. So, um, uh, what we saw with, um, with ads was there were ads when, you know, you would fit the black and it won't work, but then people started to change to fit the reds or fit the whites and they stopped working. Then they started to do things where all right let me just start the ad with my brand and let me just avoid this whole issue of conceptual closure but you give away your brand too early and all of a sudden people are like i'm not interested

so these um the the subconscious adapts so quickly the theories are there we just have to keep watching on how people um change their responses i love it man i think we could talk all day about this it is um it is a deep thing to mind yes i no kidding especially my wife's i just don't want her to feel left out yes i know uh we uh i'm gonna get some brain pads so i can hook them up to my wife and know what she's thinking at any moment. We haven't gotten all there yet. We just stop at how people are reacting. We don't try to go further into what they're actually thinking.

Damn it. All right. I love it, man. Well, there's a lot of good stuff here. I know we're going to continue these conversations. We could go on and on. A lot of insight here for brands and marketers that are thinking about the outputs they put on different channels, the importance of context for those things, the different screens, the impact. That was really enlightening to me thinking about it that way.

And hell, even within the screens, you've got vertical and horizontal. I mean, there's just so many layers to this. But Samrat, I really, you've got vertical and horizontal. I mean, there's just there's so many so many layers to this. But so I'm right. I really appreciate you coming on again and sharing your insights and telling us even more about the brain and how scary it is. It's a wonderful place where the greatest stories and the most amazing inspiration comes from. I think the more we can talk about it and learn from it, the more we will inspire ourselves. Thank you for having me. Great.

Yeah, man. Where can everybody keep up with you again? Let's drop just some of any of that info so anyone that may not have heard our last episode can know where to find you and everything Neuro Insights. Yeah, so you can absolutely come to our website. It's neuro-insight.com or you can search me on LinkedIn. I keep regularly posting new content there. And yeah, it's been a pleasure talking to you.

Great. Well, we really appreciate someone coming on and our great partnership with neuro insights. They are the go-to for the real, the greatest and the best in neuro and brain and all that stuff. They are doing some cutting edge things and we're so excited to be partnering

and having them on and them just sharing so much knowledge with all of our listeners. Well, you know where to find us. We're at the.rad.cast on Instagram, theradcast.com. We've got a new website launching here. In the next few days,

you're going to be able to find all of our content. You can search for anything, any topic that you want. You can search for neuro. You'll find all of our great episodes with Neuro Insight. You can search for anything, any topic that you want. You can search for Neuro. You'll find all of our great episodes with Neuro Insight. You can search for Instagram, anything and everything. We spend a lot of time on really aggregating all of the content we've brought to life on the Radcast. So be on the lookout for that. You know where to find me on Instagram. I'm at Ryan Alford on all the platforms and we'll see you next time.

Yo guys, what's up? Ryan Alford here. Thanks so much for listening. Really appreciate it. But do us a favor. If you've been enjoying the Radcast, you need to share the word with a friend or anyone else. We'd really appreciate it. And go leave us a review at Apple or Spotify. Do us a solid.

Tell more people. Leave us some reviews. And, hey, here's the best news of all. If you want to work with me directly, if you want to get your business kicking ass, and you want Radical or myself involved, you can text me directly at 864-729-3680. Don't wait another minute. Let's get your business going. 864-729-3680. We'll see you next time.