Right About Now with Ryan Alford - The Future of Sports Betting Marketing: AI, Brand Experience & Celebrity Ads | Casey Hurbis

Starting point is 00:00:00 On today's episode of Right About Now, I talk to CMO Casey Herbus. He is the chief marketing officer of BetMGM. Yes, that MGM. We break down all the things that change in marketing, digital, branding, the last 20 years, and exactly what's working today. Casey talks about their new campaign, make it legendary, with John Hamm. Yeah, that John Hamm. It's a really cool and insightful episode.

Starting point is 00:00:24 I enjoyed it. You guys know me. I'm the marketing geek. You're going to enjoy it, too. Learn what worked today. learn how a big CMO thinks operates an axe in 2025 right here, right now. ChatGPT AI in the form that we know it's only been around for two and a half three years. The pace, the speed of which this business is changing is the fastest I've ever seen it.

Starting point is 00:00:43 And so 30 years ago, 15, or today, you and I were in it, we live it, and it's just the fastest I've ever seen it. And so much of it is data led. This is Right About Now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over one million downloads a month. Taking the BS out of business for over six years and over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping next and cash in checks? Well, it starts right about now. What's up guys?

Starting point is 00:01:16 Welcome to Right About Now. We're always talking about what's right now. Again, what's more right now than the guy I've got on today? I'm just telling you, look, he's the Hughes, Who, CMO. You know what that is? That's Chief Marketing Badass Officer. That's his name. It is.

Starting point is 00:01:31 Casey Herbus. He is, the CMO. I bet MGM. What's up, Casey? Right. I'm going to take that title and change my sick right now. I love it. C-M-B-O.

Starting point is 00:01:43 Yeah. Hey, man. I love what you're doing. I got to know you behind the scenes, even though I knew I knew you. And respect what you've been doing in the marketing business and leading teams. And now, hey, bet MGM. I'd like place a wager or two, Casey. I like to play some wagers.

Starting point is 00:02:01 Yeah, what do you like placing wagers over? Football. Football. NFL, college. Yeah, mainly college. There you go. I keep it light. You know, in my 20s, you know, probably more than I should have. Now, it's, I never gamble what I can't afford to lose.

Starting point is 00:02:15 As long as you're being responsible, that's what matters. Exactly. Talk to me. What's going on with BetMGM? BetMGM. So, Ryan, I joined BetMGM in December. It's been eight months. It's been fast and fear.

Starting point is 00:02:25 Prior to that, I was proud to be a CMO at Rocket Mortgage, the country's largest retail mortgage lender prior to that to 25 years in automotive and had the opportunity to join the FedMGM team and family in December. And it's been wild. I mean, we're now, what, two weeks removed from the NFL kickoff, which that was my first preparation for an NFL season. And it was like getting ready for Super Bowl. It was a hundred hour weeks, getting a new brand campaign going, which we'll talk about, I'm sure, with John Hamm. And then gathering everybody at the office on Thursday night for the season kickoff. game where we anxiously awaited watching the technology and seeing how our players were reacting to the marketplace and then our brand campaign come to life in the second quarter and it felt

Starting point is 00:03:05 it was like a little Super Bowl for me you know to finally see eight months of hard work come to fruition with launch our new brand campaign it's been awesome that's awesome man and congratulations on the campaign and it's been really successful it looked great and it's interesting it brings me back in my days i spent in manhattan on big brands i am a little jealous of some of the reliving some of those days vicariously hearing you talk and thinking back some of my quiet existence here in South Carolina also is not so terrible but I do miss some of the energy that just comes with campaigns that have the attention of so many talk to me you've worked at such large brands large campaigns talk about that experience it's sometimes hard to explain it's one of those like if you know you know

Starting point is 00:03:46 and you've done it Ryan where is when you sit down and you finally see it come to life say it's a 30 second spot and then people move on with their life and I would say like You have no idea what it took to bring that to life. The months, the 100-hour weeks, sleepless nights in the world we live in, even though we live in a world that's so data-rich, and still marketing and advertising, particularly in the creative world, is still very subjective. And right when you get that ball to the two-yard line,

Starting point is 00:04:12 then somebody says, well, I don't like this. And it's managing. And you've worked on big brands as of I, and I always say there's been points in my career where I have 17,000 creative experts at a company I work at. Here I've got about 1,500 creative experts, but sometimes they're right, too. You know, I'll take feedback from anywhere. I always try to remind myself, Ryan, on those sleepless nights or those moments of mass

Starting point is 00:04:33 tension is my calming forces, I tell myself, dude, if this was easy, everybody would do it. Let's not take the path to least resistance. Let's push. Let's be different. Let's, you know, so when a piece of work, whatever that might be comes to life, you sit back and you feel proud to have it on your reel or share it with your friends. It's a great feeling. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:51 Hey, Casey, I don't really want to be on your team. I can already tell you're a good leader because I can see rallying the troops around that because, again, there's some of work that goes into these things. Casey, talk to me. You and I have both been around the block. You've done things at the highest level doing them every day now with brands like that MGM and just where that whole industry is. We'll get to that a second.

Starting point is 00:05:10 But talk to me about what world's changed a lot. The last 15 years in marketing. I've been dying to have someone at your level on because I know like at the ground floor, small, medium business owners or start. startups, even if they're famous founders, I kind of know where they're at. But big, large brands and just your perspective on this democratization of content and social media and, like, at the highest level that you're at, what's your perspective on this whole marketing landscape the last 10 to 15 years? I don't want to date myself, but I'll double down on you and go 30 years

Starting point is 00:05:43 ago. I mean, when I started in this business, at the time, it felt complicated. But as I said, you're in 2025, it was as simple as it could be. Just from a media standpoint, it was print, radio and TV. I came from a world where you routed silver prints and I didn't even have a fax machine to work with. I have no idea how meetings

Starting point is 00:06:00 were held. I have no idea. Look, to this day, I don't know how communication actually traveled. But to your point, there are moments in time for those of us

Starting point is 00:06:08 that have been around for a while, you look back and you laugh. I can distinctly remember in like 1999 city, I was in the automotive world and sitting with car dealers and talking about the impact that the internet might have

Starting point is 00:06:19 on the automotive purchase cycle. And at the time, everyone was like, whatever. internet fine for music travel books don't worry people will always want to go to a dealership they'll visit five or six dealerships or shop five or six brands they'll sit with a salesperson they'll sit with an f-and-i manager they'll always want the dealer experience don't worry about the internet you look back on that and you laugh and you think about like 2012 when the whole like

Starting point is 00:06:44 PC versus mobile usage and everyone was tracking and then the iPhone came out I mean those are pivotal moments that you look back and laugh. All right, is that mobile optimizer? Why would we do anything mobile first? And I think right now, so those are moments, like 99, 12, and then really starting in 2022, 23, where sometimes you have to step back and go, geez, chat GPT, AI, and the form that we know, it's only been around for two and a half three years. The pace, the speed of which this business is changing is the fastest I've ever seen it. And so 30 years ago, 15, or today, you and I were in it, we live it, and it's just the fastest I've ever seen it. And so much of it is, data led. A hundred percent. And you did create some flashbacks for me talking about newspaper

Starting point is 00:07:25 and print, right? Yeah. One of those days used to sweat it. Like, we better get the right hand read page or my client's going to be mad. And I'd run out to the end of my driveway and pick up the Sunday paper just praying that by me bribing the sales guy at the newspaper, we got the right hand page read. Oh my God. I hadn't heard that term in a long time. Proversioning ads was like one of my first tap in my ad agency, 400 newspapers, I'd versioning them out. When you didn't have software, they could do it, just the micro differences in sizes, though, they could throw a headline. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:07:58 I mean, I used to roll up ad slicks and then literally type out the lease payment and the disclaimer and then just hope that they pub set it, okay. I know. Oh, geez. You bring up a great point, the speed with which things are changing. I mean, how does a company like BetMGM and you as a leader, as a marketing leader, think about the AI revolution. Obviously, I'm sure you guys are using it as everyone's using it. How does a CMO in today's world think about AI? We could have a whole discussion on how AI is utilized with technology and player experience, so on and so forth. Because everyone wants that insatiable at the fingertips. Think about the world of sports. It didn't feel like that long ago. It was funny. I was in a sports book yesterday. And I rolled by the sports book and I looked up at the lines. It used to be, you used to place a bet. And then you wait until the game was over. And then you'd either cash your ticket.

Starting point is 00:08:47 are crumpled up and throw it on the floor, now the speed and the opportunities and markets that we open up are endless. And from a marketing standpoint, AI, certainly yes, anyone you talk to is going to be leaning into it. The way I look at AI is a couple different ways. One is how can the use of AI and data as we think about segmentation and personalization? We are all living in a world of one-to-one personalization or custom content or being served meaningful messages that are relevant to me. Remember the old movie Tom Cruise? A minority. reported. I know how freaky that was.

Starting point is 00:09:19 Like, we're like, wait a minute. And, you know, low and bold, here we are 20 years later. And so AI for that, but also scalability. To your point, how do I now take that newspaper ad and do 400 versions? Now how can I take that 6, 15, 30 second spot in that Ryan lives in South Carolina. I'll say you're in North Carolina because that's a regulated state. Ryan's in North Carolina. While he's watching the Carolina Panthers, we know he loves soccer, Premier League, or whatever

Starting point is 00:09:46 might be. And so how do we know that if we know Ryan, he's a player of ours, but we know he watches football, he's a big conveyor of taking on content or placing wagers and soccer. So how do we serve him a soccer at? Because that's relevant to you. How do use AI to do that? It's an arms race, obviously, as we think about the platforms and tech companies that are making that available. And that's what I find really exciting is going from channel optimization to like segment in audience targeting and personalization. Smart. And that's what it's about. I always used to say, and I picked this up, I think, from an old creative director, so you'll get a kick out of this. But, you know, everybody's favorite radio station is WI-I-I-FM. What's in it for me, baby? And so the personalization,

Starting point is 00:10:24 if you're not being relevant, you're not being listened to, it's all about attention. That's why you've got to make it legendary. That's exactly right. Talk to me. Campaign's going on. We got John Hamm. You're telling me, Madman John Hamm, come on. Madman John Hamm, with his new show on Apple, which is doing fantastic. He's a man of so much talent. We had a chance, obviously, shoot with him recently. And when I joined the organization, Ryan, in December, the first thing that was on my plate was, all right, here we are, six, seven-year-old brand in a very still young industry. And the brand has done very well. Obviously, Jamie Fox, who we worked with for a number of years, has served the brand so well. But it's like anything else. As time evolves, how can we

Starting point is 00:11:04 continuously evolve and elevate the brand? And it was rooted in research and data and insights. And as we developed the repositioning for our creative platform, we developed the core creative idea, make it legendary then it was okay we want to do some storytelling connectivity and creating a brand that truly speaks to players and knowing that fedmgm and mGM our joint venture partner we're at the forefront of entertainment all right who is there a who and that was our first question there's a lot of brands particularly in the space that use talent we address that first and then yes we want to use it loo and it wasn't like well Casey likes john ham our CEO plays golf with so-and-so and you know those conversations do happen make no mistake but let's let data and insights help

Starting point is 00:11:44 kind of shape that pathway and we started with maybe 30 talent and we did research and insights and we got focus group feedback and then then you start to have conversations with the talent are they interested in the space what do they have going on i'm not a big fan of using talent that is on every ad we all know who those folks are and then as john ham kind of like started rising the top oh my gosh relevant today relevant to wide area of players and demographics and we got on the phone with him and pitch the creative and he started leaning in and ideating with us. And that's what I want. Yes, there's going to be a transactional relationship. Make no mistake. But I want to be able to work with somebody that creatively invested. They have shared values and he's a big sports guy, right?

Starting point is 00:12:25 Huge Chiefs and Blues fan. And those types of partners I want to work with. And John's been fantastic. He is fantastic. And I'm going to give you a focus group of one feedback. Demo here, 25 to 50 year old affluent males. I fall in that demo. Nailed it. John and him literally. And guys, 20 years younger than me, look up to him and go, oh, he's cool. I consider his word. He might be a spokesperson, but he's trustworthy and he's cool and he's relevant. And guys like me, it's more, you know, peer level on the age level. I don't need any AI to tell me that was a home run. I'm going to, you're going to join me tomorrow for my CEO meeting. I'll bring you in as my focus group of one. You can call me. Make it legendary. Whether intention or not, here's how I got it.

Starting point is 00:13:07 You happen to get an ad guy here on the show. It's a marketer show. I like it. But whether intended or not, the way it hit me was it could work both ways. The brand enables you to make it legendary. And also the brand experience itself is legendary because of the crossover of entertainment, gambling, in person, mobile, all of those things. Am I in the territory of the thought process? That's the way it hit me. Well, Ryan, you're an ad guy. It was like you were sitting in the strategy meeting. You're exactly right. Make it legendary in that creative, the creative, core creative idea. When you make that statement, you also better back a up, right? It's like me telling my kids I look cool. I'm done. And so when you talk about make it legendary, one is we think about the brand, the player experience, the ecosystem that is part of BetMGM with MGM, as I mentioned. We know and are confident because we heard from our players the ability, we're brick and mortar, obviously. We have nine properties in Vegas, you know, on the strip, 11, 20 total around the country. And over 40% of our players visit

Starting point is 00:14:07 Vegas every year. They love the idea of the connectivity from BetMGM, 2MGM, and the ecosystem it provides. And let's be honest, it's a very noisy space. I live here in Michigan. There's upwards of 60 to 70 operators, very noisy in a marketplace. How do you break out? And we know that, yes, there's going to be acquisition. But this is kind of like credit cards.

Starting point is 00:14:27 I'm going to place a bet today, but I don't use BetMGM. I can't. If I were to place a bet today on my Tigers, I'm not going to check six apps. I use one app because I love their loyalty program. It makes me feel good. Kind of like credit cards, right? I have five credit cards. I use one or two.

Starting point is 00:14:40 airline hotel. We really feel like this is a big differentiator for us is certainly in making that promise from a player experience, but also from a loyalty and rewards. Our players have the opportunity to take advantage of the MGM ecosystem. Yeah, you used the word, you took it right out of my mouth. I was going to say, you have the ecosystem, so you're leveraging it. You know, some of these other players in the space don't have that ecosystem. They don't have land-based, live with a land-based casinos or some of that back. And that's people, at the end of the day, I don't care if you're buying a car, you're taking out a mortgage, or you're. placing a sports bed or eye gaming experience. People want to be taking care of and they know that, you know, the brand is trustworthy and that if I'm spending my hard-earned money, that a brand is there to take care of me and provide me an experience that I might not be able to get otherwise.

Starting point is 00:15:24 Yeah, it's interesting because when I had you coming on, I know it bet MGM is separate from MGM, but it's all part of the family of brands, sort of speak. I go, okay, what does my MGM make me feel, you know, because I'm a think feel-act kind of guy. I mean, it's a cool, marketing guy. Well, it made me think of boxing first. Like all the great boxing matches that happen with the MGM grand. And then that experience. And then the luxury, because you've got, I don't know, the whole barrio, Cosmo. Yeah, all that. And then I tied back to remembering the commercials in the Super Bowl and it feeling very kind of experiential and big. And that's what it feels like.

Starting point is 00:16:00 It's a big deal. And make it legendary. And then John Hamm, he is legendary. He's that guy. He's like sipping on a scotch like he did. on Madman, but you kind of associate him with the classy, legendary kind of dude. But he's also kind of cool. It's just all ties

Starting point is 00:16:13 together. It's so versatile. I mean, right? Serious. If you watch SNL, like I still do, now I just watch it on my phone. But when he comes on SNL, like, he's a guarantee that he's just got such a really interesting range. And he appeals such a wide demographic, too. What can we expect from the campaign? Greatness,

Starting point is 00:16:29 legendariness. We're on air with one spot right now. We actually shot for nine days. It was an ambitious production. We literally wrapped up camera, maybe three weeks before the season. Maybe one of these years, I'm going to finally get my you know what in order and actually get production done. I was jealous of the beer brands where I know darn well, here I am in September. They already have their Super Bowl spot in the can. In my previous lives when I did Super Bowl, we weren't turning lights on until January, but we are in the midst

Starting point is 00:16:54 of post production. We actually just wrapped up post production on our second spot. That's going to start airing soon. We have six spots in the campaign. And as you can imagine, Ryan, I mean, it's not just about the 32nd TVC. I don't know, probably 5,000 assets after it's all said and done. between digital social print, photography, whatever it might be. We are a post-production machine right now. And then you always find some of those really interesting nuggets when you're playing and you're lifting up the hand, if you will, and finding some interesting takes or moments that you just continue to iterate on.

Starting point is 00:17:21 I think that's what would be fun in the big brand world now, because you've got this atomization of content now, having all these assets from the top down, the spot kind of being the lead, the hero. And you got, hey, what are the social nuggets we could put out of there? What's the print? What's this? And that atomization process would be really fun. having big brand budget and the nine-day product, you know, all those assets to kind of work through.

Starting point is 00:17:41 It's ambitious. It wasn't going back to 15 years. It was probably 10 years ago where you just go shoot your 30-second TVC and they would just throw over the assets to the digital and the social and the PR team. Now you come to one of my sets. It's like cut, turn, photography, cut, turn, green screen, cut, turn, wild lines, cut, turn. Literally put them on a pedestal and just have cameras all the way around. And it was nine days. I mean, that was a lot of production. But not like I have three days of digital, three days of social. It's nine days and trying to serve many, many masters. And it's not just taking the TBC and cutting. It's like what are the digital social first ideas? Or if my PR team wants something special three months from now that we're

Starting point is 00:18:21 maybe thinking of, how do we get wildline or pieces of content ready for unforeseen circumstances or maybe what ifs? Casey, what's success look like from this campaign and maybe for your first year lapping both, I mean, it's your campaign and your team's campaign, all that's happening. It's kind of all tied together with you. What's that first year's success look like for you? When you write it down and go, this is what we're aiming for. What are we going for? One is, obviously, we are a company, we are a business, we are a brand, is to be financially healthy.

Starting point is 00:18:50 We are financially healthier than we've ever been. I reported that recently. From a marketing standpoint, the amount of states that have opened have slowed down the last four or five years. States, you know, right now, as I mentioned, we're in 29 states plus Ontario. Last year, we had a state open. This year in Q4, Missouri will open and Alberta and early, and we'll call it mid-20206. Yes, acquisition is important, but as I mentioned earlier, acquisition will take place. That's natural funnel, but for us, as I spoke about earlier, is how do you create that

Starting point is 00:19:20 healthier middle part of the funnel? Whether it's players that have engaged with us, maybe they've stepped away or one of our main focus areas as well, Ryan, is out by with the brand elevating, but also elevating our players, i.e. the premium mass VIP players. You can imagine VIPs for any sports book or iGaming brand. Obviously, those VIP are the 80-20 rule. What's that? Is it almost the 80-20 rule? You're pretty close, yeah. Our brand certainly serves that audience well. And now it's more of a concentrated effort of raising that level of premium mass players for us.

Starting point is 00:19:52 Yeah. You've got to activate intent now that you've generated awareness from all that Super Bowl, because you'd have, because I heard the water cooler talk. Did you see that? Do you see that? Do you see Jane? Amy, and you see, we complicate this stuff, but it's still the top of the funnel, the middle of the bottom funnel, like in one way, shape, or form. It's like anything else. Even though this world is moving so fast, the funnel is the funnel. It's kind of like credit card. There's 70 operators in Michigan. What's going to entice somebody to download our app?

Starting point is 00:20:16 And maybe the average sports better in eye gaming, they have three plus apps. It's like, all right, well, how do we become one of those three? And then it's like credit cards, wallet share. All right, once he, she or they downloads the three or four apps, then what is going to make them use BetMGM? BetMGM, then why bettmgm? That's marketing carries a big part of that load, but it's also going to be product, UX, and player experience as well that's going to help drive that middle part of the funnel. Well, if I was a betting man, and I am, I think you're well on your way.

Starting point is 00:20:43 Wouldn't bet against you. Talk to me about where anyone listening can learn their marketing junkies like me about what you guys are doing on the team for marketing perspective, but then just all the betmgm stuff. Obviously, across any of the social platform handles at betmgm, It's such a special company, great culture. We're based in Jersey City. That's where our headquarters are.

Starting point is 00:21:02 I'm there three weeks a month. We've got 150 team members in marketing. We're very blessed to work with some really solid agencies, creative and media. But we're also an in-house agency. We're creating tens of thousands, 20,000 plus assets on annualized basis, according our marketing and media plans. And follow me on LinkedIn, whatever it might be. I love what I'm doing.

Starting point is 00:21:19 And being out there as a brand, whether it's in the endemic circles or in the marketing advertising communities, you usually find someone from our brand hanging out. Casey, it was a lot of fun. Enjoyed having. I enjoyed it. Hey, guys, you know to find us. Ryan is right.com. You'll find highlight clips full video, audio, and links to BetMGM.

Starting point is 00:21:37 And of course, Casey's LinkedIn, as he mentioned, go give them a shout out. It's a legendary campaign. And I love John Hamm. So I'm a sucker anyway. But you know who's the sucker. It's us because we're lucky to have you to make us number one. We'll see you next time right about now. This has been right about now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network

Starting point is 00:21:57 production. Visit ryanisright.com for full audio and video versions of the show or to inquire about sponsorship opportunities. Thanks for listening.

Right About Now with Ryan Alford - The Future of Sports Betting Marketing: AI, Brand Experience & Celebrity Ads | Casey Hurbis

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