Right About Now with Ryan Alford - The Mayor of Craft Beer, Nate Tomforde and Ryan Talk Beer Business

Episode Date: March 17, 2020

On this episode, Ryan sits down with Nate Tomforde the Founder of Pour Taproom, the largest self-serve taproom group in the US. Nate gives great background on his entrepreneurial journey and his vision for Pour Taproom. Tons of great insights here about the growth of the Craft Beer business and leveraging technology to improve processes while not minimizing the importance of human interaction. If you enjoy this episode please check out the rest of our episodes on our channel. Please share, review, and subscribe! Radical Podcast is always looking forward to meeting both aspiring, and grounded professionals across the country! Slide Ryan or Radical a DM on Instagram and let's make it happen! @radical_results on Instagram @ryanalford on Instagram www.radical.company Sponsorships: off for this episode If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, join Ryan’s newsletter https://ryanalford.com/newsletter/ to get Ferrari level advice daily for FREE.  Learn how to build a 7 figure business from your personal brand by signing up for a FREE introduction to personal branding https://ryanalford.com/personalbranding.  Learn more by visiting our website at www.ryanisright.comSubscribe to our YouTube channel  www.youtube.com/@RightAboutNowwithRyanAlford. 

Hey guys, on this episode of the Radical Company Podcast, I sit down with the mayor of Craft Beer, Nate Tomford. Nate started and founded Poor Taproom, nine locations, soon to be 10 across the country. We talk about his path to entrepreneurship, growing the craft beer business, helping local craft beers get seen, heard, tasted throughout his poor rooms and really interesting dialogue about beer business in general and some tips and tricks for entrepreneurs out there looking to grow. Really enjoyed sitting down with the mayor and hope you enjoyed today's podcast. Hey guys, what's up?

Welcome back to the Radical Company podcast. It's been a couple of weeks, but we're getting back into the groove here at the wonderful camaraderie where we work. We're a co-work space for our agency, Radical. If you're ever in Greenville, come see us. We're right on the Swamp Rabbit Trail in downtown Greenville. I am pumped about today. I've been getting to Nate a little bit here over the last few months. We have a lot in common and excited to talk the business of beer. I mean, who doesn't love beer, right? No, it's the best. Nate Tomford is the founder of Poor Taproom and other ventures. He's an entrepreneur and there's nine locations in the country now and Nate founded that business and I'm excited to kind of get behind the scenes you know being in marketing advertising I've worked

on a few different beer brands Budweiser a little bit about 10 years ago up at New York and then now more of the craft scene which I know we're going to get into the the booming craft beer business as much as I kind of hate the the snbiness of craft beer, as some of my friends are. And you know who you are if you're listening to this. But I'm excited to get into it. I mean, did you ever think you'd be, when you were growing up, I'm going to be in the, did you know, was this like a dream, the beer business? No. I mean, I love the service industry, food and beverage, but food and beverage but never thought hey we selling beer for a living well let's

start Nate from the beginning maybe just some of your background you know let's talk about what led to ultimately the idea I mean it's a pretty neat concept you know we've got some some people the video, you'll see the screen up. You can go to portaproom.com to learn more about the business. But let's start from the beginning. I mean, let's talk about, like, just general background that led you maybe ultimately to founding it. But, you know, talk about some of your early, early days. And have you always been an entrepreneur? Yeah. early early days and have you always been been entrepreneur I mean yeah I mean from the time I

was little I remember just trying to hustle and sell things to make money so like a lot of people had a landscaping lawn mowing business saved up my own money to buy a super nintendo that was huge then baseball cards baseball cards super nintendo and, and then ultimately saved up to buy my own car. So my dad's in construction and blue collar, didn't have a lot of money. So if I wanted something, I had to work for it, earn that money, and then I could buy it. So from an early age, I really enjoyed that, you know, that I could put together some ideas, buy the right equipment and go make some money. So that carried on into college. I started a clothing line in college. It was called Powerhirts.com. And Power Shirts was in 2000, and we had an online store accepting PayPal in 1999, 2000.

That's early e-com there. Really early. This was before Gap. Yeah. Anybody had, you could not buy clothes online. You could go to their website and see what they had. Amazon was just selling books then, I think. Yes.

So I had all these shirts in my apartment. My roommate just scattered all over, and I would be shipping people, random people, shirts. So I don't even know how they found out about us, but it had all the video on the website, and we thought we were pretty cool. We were. Now looking back, and we thought we were pretty cool. We were. Now looking back, you were definitely ahead of the curve.

That was fun. They were shirts that had the positive one-word message on them, like, believe. You were way advanced. One unity. Think about it, Nate. That's what's cool now. I mean, everyone's got a T-shirt that's got those things you guys ecom and motivational uh speaking shirts is uh you were definitely 20 years and ahead of it it was fun we did a like a fashion show and we were we were

going to be in hate n Ashbury district in San Francisco and then unfortunately lost some momentum with my partner had a terrible family loss and it just kind of derailed our momentum so oh well oh so entrepreneur from the get-go started in the econ business and then is it like every other entrepreneur store got grounded a little bit back to the real world yes and then it's kind of that's kind of my story too well i grew up in san jose california so the silicon valley so dna is just you know this tech is part of my dna just part of when you grow up there and you see all the entrepreneurism and you see the,

uh, all the different startups, it really makes you think through, you know, how can I use technology to, um, you know, to kind of further take something that is easy to sell and use technology to, to sell it further. So that's So that's what I like to do. I like to take simple things and then not recreate the product but figure out how to deliver that product in a new way. Yeah, I love that. I mean, pretty much the concept of poor in a lot of ways. It is.

Let's talk about when did we start poor? 2014, so six years ago. where'd the idea come from i mean was it just well i i saw um tech company had like a short video of they were basically because self-serve taps have been around for about 10 years, mostly in like tabletops, one or two taps, sometimes 12. And really what it was designed for was volume of cheap beer. Stadiums use them for cheaper American, you know, lagers. And you would just, you know, try to free up your bartenders to let people just pour beer. It caps off at 32 ounces and then it frees up your bartenders to let people just pour beer. It caps off at 32 ounces and then it frees up your bartenders to serve more wine and cocktails. So it was really a function of convenience and hey, just pouring pints is laborious. It takes very little skill to pour a pint till your glass,

you know, and fill it up. So you say that, I tell you what, we have a keg here at the co-work space. I must be the world's crappiest beer pourer because no matter what, I have half a glass of foam. And I'll watch someone will come behind me and I'm like watching them. He has no head on his head. I'm jealous of the pour. I'm like, I turned it sideways.

I don't know what it is. Sometimes it's, I mean, I'm sure it's not the I'm like, I turned it sideways. I don't know what it is. Sometimes. I'm sure it's not the best draft system. Come on. The rolling kegerator is not the perfect draft system? Come on. We'll say it has more to do with that than you. We'll be nice.

We'll go with that. I digress. Yes. Yeah. I'm going to walk you through 2014 and beyond? Yeah, let's hear it. I want to hear it. I moved from Santa Cruz, California, to Asheville, North Carolina.

One, to get closer to my wife's family here in Greenville, where I now live. But the other was because Asheville was one of the new up-and-coming craft beer kind of mecca places. And so I thought if I was going to move back to the south or southern region, that that would be a good place to kind of test the concept. So I got in touch with the tech company out in California and really talked to them about a concept that would be started from scratch like a true self-serve bar not just six taps or 12 taps like the architecture of the building the way the setup the layout everything would be this this giant tap system of beer wine cider and create an 100% self-serve bar for beer and

wine. It hadn't been done before. There was a place in San Diego that had a lot of taps, but they still had a bar. So people were using it as like a widget, kind of a marketing thing. I wanted it to be an entire business plan because for me it was about variety and selection, not about, hey, here's this cool technology. I'm a big believer that technology should be used to standardize the delivery of a product, but not necessarily replace people and get rid of labor. It does naturally help reduce some labor in a restaurant, but if you're going to open a self-serve place for that reason,

you're doing it for the wrong reason in my personal opinion. We used it as a way to try lots of different beers and wines because you pay as you go by the ounce. Yeah. way to try lots of different beers and wines because you pay as you go by the ounce yeah so the idea is that the variety and selection really dictated the business plan that makes sense and you know i've been to you know the wine bars that have the machines and things like that i always liked that concept of because the the biggest thing with trying a new beverage is like ordering a whole drink right or even if you want to go to the grocery store with trying a new beverage is like ordering a whole

drink right or even it do under the grocery store and border in a whole bottle yeah we like getting to hey we have an ounce of this you know to really try it before you buy it yeah or you're buying your ounce but instead of buying a full beer full it's less risky yeah exactly a lot less risky. Yeah, exactly. A lot less risky. So first pour opens. 2014. It was the first one. In West Asheville on Haywood Road. And there was 54 taps there.

56, my fault. 48 beers and eight wines. 56 taps. And it was the largest self-serve bar that had ever been opened and the first 100% self-serve bar in the country. How did it go? I mean, was it a new concept? First one of anything is always a little bit, you know, dicey.

It was really difficult in a lot of ways, just the networking, the layout, getting permits and licenses. It was very confusing to the alcohol up there. It's ALE, Alcohol Law Enforcement, North Carolina and South Carolina. It's SLED. Those agencies do not like new things. So it was a lot harder than people realize it still is hard six years later we've just figured out how to navigate through and educate local officials and everything that it's not a frat party pay 15 and drink till you drop you know from a solo cup keg there's something that they think that the bartender

being in between the person and the alcohol is somehow, and don't get me wrong, I know that good bartenders know when not to over-serve people, but at the same time, there's a lot of misguided assumptions that that bartender is stopping someone from drinking more than they should. Correct. Well, unfortunately, that bartender's not getting paid very well,

so all of their money is tips. So they don't want to stop people from drinking because they'll make more in tips. And like you said, that's certainly not a majority of bartenders. They're doing a great job. But again, the idea for... They're serving how many ever people? It's not just unfeasible for them.

Yeah, if someone's falling over, of course. But if someone's following over at Port Haproom, you've got enough people there that they're not letting that happen either. Correct. And the way the system works is based on alcohol volume and wine is less, but it's 32 ounces of beer is the largest single serving in most states before you get to a pitcher. And then a pitcher of beer has to be shared between two or more people.

So the 32 ounces is a good cutoff spot to basically check on somebody, right? Make sure that they're not slurring their speech. Make sure that they're not stumbling and you're not serving people under 21. Those are the three main things you have to be aware of as a bartender. So we still have bartenders. They're just more hosting, talking to people about the product,

showing them how to work the system. It's more of a laid back kind of like house party vibe because you can get as little or as much as you want. You don't have to wait on anybody you also aren't pressured into hey you want another drink yeah are you sure you don't want another drink and you feel like i better leave this table because i'm tying up this server bartender's table and i i don't want them to you know it's this like game that you're how long can i stay without having to buy another drink i already had too you know yeah so what's interesting

is the system I think is more efficient at catching that because it doesn't care how much money you have or how good looking you are it's going to cut you off when you hit 32 ounces and then you're going to be forced to talk to a beer host or a bartender server and you are you're going to get a site check just like a bartender should be doing every time they serve you a drink they should be looking at you and making sure that you're you know that it's okay to serve you another drink so anyway that's kind of the legal side of things as far as the reception most I don't know how many people listening to this know Asheville, but Asheville is a, is a unique place and new concepts are not that welcomed. Even though we're just a, you know, local business, I lived in West Asheville. It definitely was, you know,

a different thing for people. Now at the time there was only eight breweries in Asheville. Now there's 43 in proper Asheville. There was a very few beer bars. Um, so it was a great platform to showcase local beer because a lot of those breweries didn't have tap rooms. Now they all have these amazing tap rooms. But at the time we would do tap takeovers every week. Local breweries like High Wire and Highland and Green Man and Catawba and all these places were very excited because not a lot of people would drive out to their tap rooms. They wanted to showcase their beer and being able to try their beer and put four different beers on tap and have them try them,

and then they could go buy tap and have them try them. And then they could, you know, go buy what they wanted from the store. And then we started doing crawler cans in 2015, which was, there was only about eight to 10 places in the country doing crawlers at the time. So that was kind of new. It's, it's canning a single can, which is very popular now, but you fill it up on draft and then you seal it can it one at a time and we were selling like 300 of those a month for a while because it was it was so new and novel but overall I mean we did really well sales wise and I think the community saw that you know I was owner operator a

year and a half just putting in time and the community you know supporting the breweries all we do today still today is showcase local and regional craft beer that's why we call it a beer festival every day we do also have a good amount of wine and cider and have some meads and you know a lot of variety now the seltzers are more popular yeah but you can still support a craft brewery. They make seltzers, so you don't have to just go get a big brand seltzer. You can still support that local person. It's just as good, better ingredients. So that's really kind of how it started in Asheville,

and then we had an opportunity to open a location here in Greenville, and then we had an opportunity to open a location here in Greenville and that was really for family my brother-in-law runs this store here in Greenville in downtown and so we went a little bigger bigger space did 70 taps here and it was pretty bonkers from the start just very very busy, big space, dog friendly. We partnered with the Mexican restaurant Green Goes Next Door to provide all the food so we didn't have to have a kitchen. So we had that kind of setting and vibe of a brewery downtown and Blue Ridge Mountain was there, but then they eventually moved to Greer. So we were kind of that big craft beer place downtown, and that was in 2016. So we've been here now four years.

So talk to me about the technology side, where that comes in. Is that all in the dispensing of the ounces and things like that? Yeah, there's a valve and a flow meter. There's nothing new about valves and flow meters. They're on gasoline and oil and different things like that. And so we had partnered with a tech company. We have a different partnership with a different tech company now. And so I helped a lot in kind of beta testing things

and looking at customer perception and how they interacted with the screens because every tap has a tablet above it, which acts as a digital tap handle. So we can change that tap handle. And it gives you tasting notes and the brewery's logo and ABV and then the price per ounce. So it's very informational. It's a huge part of the visual appearance of a place as well. And we can change it automatically. And so the technology allows for keeping a live tab. So you just come in and you open a tab just like any bar,

and then you just pay for what you drink. So you can get four ounces and be done, or you can have two or three beers. So the technology, obviously, is a huge portion of poor tap room. And then you just close out your tab at the end of the night, or you walk out and we add 20% tip, just like any other bar. No domestic beer, I assume, like your normal. No, we put domestic beers on. Like Bud Light, Coors Light. Yeah, PBR, I mean, Yingling is craft, but PBR, Modelo.

I mean, we want to have some cheaper, easier drinking options. I don't like to have a ton of inbev products on inbev owns budweiser lots of other craft breweries they don't love craft beer obviously so i don't love them it's just as simple as that i mean i'm i try to be the mayor of of craft beer and so most people don't need to taste Budweiser. So there's, but we will have PBR and like I said, Modelo, three or four or five options, depending on the location, easy drinking beers that you can come in and get for $3 a pint,

that type of thing. What do you think, starting in 14, six years in, we'll get to some of the additional locations. I know you have nine now. But what have you seen as the business of beer and how it's changing and evolving? You talked about in Asheville, when you first there, there's, you know, seven or eight breweries. And now, you know, with the,

the ability for them to have tap rooms, there's 40 plus. So obviously a boom market with craft overall, but talk about any of the just business of beer in general, the evolution that you've seen just in the last six years. What, I years? What are things that stick out to you? Yeah, beer trends are interesting. So a couple of different things. Beer trends, the taproom mentality for the breweries now, and then just the number of breweries and beer spots has drastically increased. It's just a lot more competitive now.

There's thousands of more breweries today than there was six years ago. I don't know the exact number, but it's in the thousands, somewhere like 3,000 or 4,000, and now there's close to 7,000. It's almost doubled in six years nationwide. 7,000. It's almost doubled in six years. So nationwide. So we are a national company now, but we, um, we can get into that later, but they're partnerships. We're not a franchise. Um, so styles are interesting. We had a sour section back in 2015 and sours were totally new. Most of the sours came from Belgium and Belgium had been making sours for hundreds of years. American brewers started finally doing that. Sours,

you know, aged, it has different types of bacteria, whether it's lactobacillus or just, there's lots of different types. And so that was a new style craft cider started growing cider ease are a big deal you know most cider like that I had was like horns bees or something it was incredibly sweet at my wife my wife loves the blueberry cider that's that's I'm convinced is like 70 grams of sugar probably. Well, the craft ciders are using more natural ingredients. They're not adding sugar and all these different things. So the beer trends, that's really interesting. IPAs have always been big,

but some of the other things that have come around, I think now craft breweries have realized that most people and a lot of Americans, they want an easy drinking beer. So there are craft lagers and pilsners. You don't just have to buy a cheap, you know, American lager. You can buy a lager made with a hundred percent pilsen malt from River River Bend Malt House up in Asheville, like High Wire does. They make 100% Pilsen malt lager, and it's fantastic. I know all the craft beer people are going to poo-poo me.

I'm just going to say it, though. And I enjoy one or two craft beers. I'm not a hoppy guy. The big IPAs just have never been my thing. But just being 100% transparent, I have not found on a good

game day Saturday where I like to have four to six Miller Lights. Sure. I have no affinity to Miller light it's just easy to drink I have yet and I'm in this is your challenge I've everyone always goes but you haven't had the the blonde blah blah and I'll have two and I want no more but I want more you know I'm saying yeah but I don't want any

more of that yeah I am still trying to find the everyday, you're going to have four or five, and not be falling, I'm 6'5", 250, I'm not falling over after four or five beers. But that's a comfortable level for me on an enjoyment. I've yet to find the craft beer that is that one. There's your challenge. There's dozens.

And just here locally, regionally and have you tried the allagash white no yeah i've tried the allagash white i can drink two of them that's a belgian wit you want a you want a light american lager and there are multiple craft breweries that make light american lagers that are 4.5 alcohol which is what a Miller Lite is. And they're going to be clean and crisp and carbonated and easy drinking. I mean, Pilsners and lagers is probably where you need to stay. I mean, Belgian wits or wheat beers, they're going to be. And I like the ones that are tasty. But like when I'm going to have one or two, and I'm fine with that.

I appreciate that. I love the different flavors. I enjoy it. Yeah. I appreciate that. I love the different flavors. I enjoy it. But when I'm looking to liberate a little, as we call it on a Friday,

celebrate a little. Anyway, I digress. So that is, I guess that's what I'm saying about the trends, is they've, craft breweries have realized that, and now they're making those 100 calorie 4.5 percent lagers and pilsners but they're using wholesome ingredients you know they're using malt and hops yeast and water they're not putting corn or adjuncts is what it's called into the beer they're still using good ingredients so you know like i said high wire lager is a fantastic you know four and a half percent maybe 4.7 percent alcohol beer that you could drink four to six of them.

And, you know, it's not gonna be too sweet. It's not gonna be, you know, too hoppy. And so keep looking or I'll after the show. Oh, yeah. I'll give you a list. I'll be down and or come over to the pour and we'll we'll sample some. Yeah, we have a huge section that we just call light beers. So they're lighter in color mostly and lighter in alcohol.

And so we have general categories. They're not really styles of beer. So we have a lot of styles within that section just to keep, to simplify it so people can go to that area. One thing I found, you know, it's fascinating, you know, being a marketer, you know, I know it's grown, you know, I think it, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, a lot of these breweries are started by beer lovers. They're wanting to follow their passion. And I'm wondering when it clicks in, like like I really need to make money doing this

versus it's a hobby and you have so many people and so how many people are coming into craft now because they want to get bought by Budweiser or how many are coming in because it's still that love and affinity for the the grains and the making the something you know like I'm fascinated by the just and the making the something, you know, like I've, I'm fascinated by the, uh, just the, the balance of those things because, you know, you gotta sell enough beer to make some money and to make enough money to make it worthwhile. But then there's the love of craft and then the selling the Budweiser. Which one is it? Like what?

I think that pre 2000, Oh, I don't know. 15, 16. It was your home brewers passionate I want to do this for a living I enjoy that the community aspect of it and I would still say the majority of all craft brewery owners are in it for the reasons of for the love of the grain and the malt and community. That, I think, first and foremost, what makes craft beer unique is that it's locally made. And so when you're, when you're part of a local community, you're making a product on site, and you're opening your doors up for people to enjoy that. You're supporting something local.

You're not just buying Budweiser from the grocery store and it's made wherever it's made. So there's that approach. So I think most people that are in it for the right reason. There are more and more businessmen getting into craft beer that care more about money than the community. So that's going to happen. It's the evolution of,

of an industry, right? People, it starts growing, right? And then more people pay attention and say, Ooh, I can make some money on that. So we're going to invest. So you will see more and more of that, but I would still say a large, large majority of people are, are doing it for community and because they love beer. And, um, you know, part of the reason why people are getting into it more for the money is the taproom sales. So I saw that from the beginning. That's why I wanted to do a taproom and not open a brewery is I loved beer, but I didn't have the skill set to brew beer.

And so I thought selling it, buying it wholesale and selling it retail was for me the best way to be a part of the communityies would sell beer to the pubs and then people drank at the pubs there wasn't a lot of breweries that had their own tap rooms I mean ten seats at a bar and you come up and order a pint or do a tasting or take a brewery tour but they weren't large bars right and so what started to happen in Asheville and is now everywhere is that you have breweries acting as the manufacturer and as the retailer. And that's a really tricky thing. I still struggle with it because all we do is buy other people's products,

but then now they're competing against us for the taproom sales. So how do you handle that? I don't know. It's tricky. Your great differentiator is the variety, right? Correct. Because Jimmy, terrible craft name. Don't ever call your, you know, and I love Jimmy's.

We work with a company that's Jimmy's, and I love Jimmy. So, Jimmy, if you're listening to this, I love you. But Jimmy's craft beer is not maybe the best craft beer, but it's my example. But Jimmy's isn't going to have, I'm going to say something that's not craft beer anymore, like Wicked Weed. I think they're owned by Budweiser now, aren't they? They are owned by Inver. Freudian, exactly my point of all this. But Jimmy's isn't going to have Wicked Weed on tap and all that he's only going to have jimmy's right correct so that's your great always your great

differentiator is you know the selection variety but at the same time i get it it's a challenge yeah i mean every poor tavern you go to will have probably half of round about half of the taps will be local or regional within an hour or two so you can come to one place like you would at a beer festival and taste. You taste two ounces of 13 different beers before you find something you like. I mean, it's endless. So to me, the tasting room, that is our advantage. When you can come to one place and try a beer from virtually every brewery in the area that that distributes um that does sell their beer that's a tagline brother i'm

looking at this right now and like to get into my poor tap room the craft beer person's tasting room yeah you know yeah there's your there's hey yeah hey you you must be good at this no yeah but that is yeah it's a so there's a struggle there and you have to be you do have to be find something unique you have to find a widget unfortunately to make yourself different or you're just the same as everyone else so you know always. I mean, breweries still have a hard time. They can't just go in downtown because there are regulations. When you're brewing beer, it puts off odors and smells and you can't just be downtown around million dollar apartments like in Greenville. So you have to still, there are, there are just regulations where you can manufacture

and produce beer. So tap rooms, places like a poor tap room, will be able to still compete with top-notch locations in downtown areas where you're getting high volume, people can taste a lot of stuff. And then we encourage people to go out to the breweries that they like. I mean, we're supporting and making breweries money. So there's no reason for the symbiotic relationship to continue. It just is a little trickier than it was in 2014, 15. So we're navigating that space.

I think breweries understand that. They're still trying to push people out to the pubs and the tap rooms, but they're also competing in the bar business. So I don't really know what else to say about it, except that we have to just keep winning on excellent locations and keep offering variety. And then you've got to make a space fun. It's got to be dog-friendly.

You've got to have games. It's got to be family-friendly. You've got to have some food, but you don't need to be a full restaurant. But you do need to offer some form of hot food. be a full restaurant, but you do need to offer some form of hot food. Um, and so those are the challenges that, that we continue to, you know, face as we grow. And, um, our, our growth has been through an early adopters kind of friends and family network that we decided to basically create a partnership or a license. So they have a lot of freedom to do their own thing. They use our brand.

We teach them. There's a lot of consulting. We teach them how to open the business, to navigate local laws, help them secure a lease because the power of the brand and our proven concept secures A-plus locations. That's the number one thing that we really offer is that brand. The marketing, the website, social media. So, I mean, I did all of our social media for three or four years before I kind of outsourced it.

So that's that Silicon Valley, you know, just wanting to kind of do things and understanding enough to get to get by. enough to get to get by. I think as far as social media is concerned, we have some of the biggest impact for a bar that you would have because we're very Instagrammable. We're very, you know, videos and it's a very visual place. Those screens light up at night and it's an impressive, you know, appearance compared to, say, an average bar. So, you know, that the, the growth has been, what I love to do today is help other people open their own business. You know, it's a big dream for a lot of people to be able to open it up and it can be, it's extremely complicated to start, but then after you learn and you train on that, it can be very relaxing compared to a typical restaurant because you're hanging out with customers, you're talking to them about the product and showing them the way

rather than constantly, you know, pouring pints endlessly. You know, just you don't have time to really talk to customers. That's the, that's what's interesting is when you come to a pour tavern, you'll have more time to talk to staff and learn about the local scene or what different beers to try because they can direct you that way rather than a bartender who's literally, it's transactional. I give you money, you hand me a pint. And so for beer, that skill set, anybody can learn to pour a beer. I mean, it takes practice, anybody can learn to pour a beer. I mean, it takes practice. Um, but

you know, it's, it's different than a cocktail or even talking to a sommelier about wine and the tasting notes. So that will always, you know, in my opinion, continue, you can put cocktails on tap, you know, margaritas, mules, things like that work really well on tap. Um, but you're, you're never going to be able to like get an old fashioned or a Manhattan or something like that work really well on tap. Um, but you're, you're never going to be able to like get an old fashioned or a Manhattan or something like that. That's going to taste good. So the goal again for poor tap room is not to replace bartenders. It's to transition their role from a bartender to a host, to someone who spends more time with people and talking about product and less time just hustling and serving. So we're in nine total markets now?

Yeah, we just announced our 10th in Buffalo, New York, opening this summer. That just came out. We just kind of went to the media with that early this week. Atlanta. Mostly in the southeast. Mostly southeast. Yeah, Knoxville, Tennessee, Durham, Charlotte,

Wilmington, carolina charleston greenville st petersburg florida um atlanta and then um santa cruz california where i'm from my best friend growing up opened a spot out there so where do you see all this going i mean it's a it's a good question. I mean, I enjoy helping other people open a spot. So as long as there's interest. We don't do hardcore marketing sales right now. We're very picky.

We have a long kind of application process. It's about five steps to kind of get through. And we want to, because it's a partnership and we don't have this 200 page franchise agreement we have, it's very intrapersonal. So we take our time. It's a long kind of sales process, so to speak. It can be a year and a half or so from the time we start talking to somebody until they actually get open, just because leasing a building and upfitting it and all of that can take, takes six to eight months as is. So, um, I'm not saying I won't franchise someday. I think if we can dial in

a model and it makes sense, franchises are not evil. I mean, it's the number one small business in America is, is opening a franchise. It's not just food and beverage, it's construction, it's windows, it's, you know, lots of different things. Pet care. There's so many franchises because it's a proven model. And so if you want to have a career, a job, or be self-employed, you pay somebody some money, and they teach you how to run a business, and it's yours. So definitely open to doing that someday if we can dial it in.

The problem early on, which is not so much anymore is that craft beer is local and you can't, you know, just regulate the product. You want it to be very unique for each location. And, uh, we wanted to find the best location possible. So every poor tap room looks completely different and unique. You have like our Wilmington stores and an old 1900s bank. They put the wine taps in the vault. I mean, it's just beautiful old building, you know, with a, um, upstairs area, whole mezzanine area. And, um, and then, you know, Greenville here is in an old world, world war two era warehouse that was all boarded up and, you know, just this old kind of airplane

hangar looking building. And then in Charleston, we're the tallest rooftop bar and restaurant in all of Charleston on King Street. We're on top of the Hyatt. So we have wraparound views. And so I always just say, let's find the best location possible. Then you kind of make it look however you need to. And then we figure out how many taps we can get in there and so that's hard to franchise you know put it in a box and and and so there there are ways to do it there's lots of franchises that do a great job and you can it's still locally owned and operated so i think spoken like a true craft you know like everything about you is like the true craftsman the true craft beer guy like the mayor of craft beer which is now your official title for me but that's why it's hard because you know no true someone that

appreciates the art of the beer and the art of the business it makes it really hard to cookie because there's something, there's, you know, cookie cutter that's franchised, you know, and I think that goes against like all, I imagine now getting to know you better, you know, kind of all of your, yeah, you want to have a system and process and technology and you appreciate all that, but the art of it all is kind of hard to duplicate because you go to a different market, there's different settings, there's different things, there's different people, there's different local breweries. And so, you know, all that makes it hard to duplicate. Yeah. I mean, we're, I think there's a

path to get there and you dedicate, you know, a large portion of your taps to local and then maybe the rest are regional and you can still stay craft. But so they're working through that now. I mean, I think you get to a certain spot and you do have to have some things in place to make sure that the quality is there, that the repetition and the standard that we create for the brand is duplicated correctly. So, but, and I do actually get to finally open a brewery too. So I can, I, I'm

finally going to, I found, uh, partners and, uh, a good brewer here locally. So we get to finally, get to finally, uh, scratch that itch and, uh, be a part of it. Yes. It's a double-stamp brewery. It's going to be on Lawrence Road, close to downtown. But it's a unique space with a half-acre private park, and a home team barbecue is going to be there. We're going to have 250 parking spots. It's really going to be a pretty epic outdoor location. There's an adventure park zipline,

well, actually more of a ropes course, um, that's going in that there by the other side of the swamp rabbit trail behind East Washington street. How wide a distribution do you want for the beer itself? Zero. Okay. Zero. Yeah. We're just going to have a tap room and, and, um, and do that. So the goal with that was its location. If a developer comes to you with an amazing location, it's hard to turn down. And I feel like Greenville can use a few more outdoor spaces. There's obviously some great ones. Birds Fly South does a fantastic job.

And just wanting to be more involved in the craft beer scene here in Greenville. I mean, poor tap rooms supported a lot of local breweries throughout the last four years. And now I want to have an opportunity to, to also join that, um, that side of the team, so to speak. so to speak as we close out um any advice for whether someone listening is in the craft business or you know the beer business or just an entrepreneur in general i mean you kind of had a lot of experience you enjoy helping people any like uh i imagine we could have a podcast just about that in full but uh any two again yeah i know we could do that we can have a podcast just about that in full. But any tips? Let's do it again. Yeah, I know.

We can do that. We can have a little ongoing segment here. I'm still interested in, we're going to save a secret. Nate and I are talking about, he's got some good ideas, and I want to execute them. But we'll come back to that. But any advice for entrepreneurs out there in general? Any words of wisdom,

like that's a tough question. That's a big question. What's the biggest thing you've learned, you know, like, or a couple of the biggest things. I think for me, when I was thinking about starting a business,

it's a, it's kind of a relentless pursuit of finding things that are easy to sell and finding a way to sell it in a unique way. I think those are some of the best ideas out there. I mean, just very simple things. And it's like, well, why didn't I think of that way to sell it or that way to sell it or that way to to promote it and so I think if you can find something you know I'm not a I'm not an inventor and a creator so

some people are can find you know niches in a market where they they are programmers and coders and they are able to create an app or a website or something that that fills you know a really unique niche however I think today there I mean there's a lot of creators out there and so rather than trying to just beat everybody at creating something maybe take that like like we did with beer and wine and say how can we make this more approachable that you know all these unique styles of beer you know it's like 65 plus styles how do we educate people on that and it's well we have to give them variety and selection so the technology allows that to to happen so i think you know you can say that the typical find something you love and go do it.

That doesn't always pay the bills, unfortunately. I definitely think you should do something you love, but it might not be your career, unfortunately. So I think find something that is easy to sell and find a new way to sell it. I love it. Well, the mayor of Kraft, Nate Tomford. I'll take it. I love it. Well, the mayor of craft, Nate Tomford. I'll take it. I love it. There's worse names. We have found the title of the podcast.

Ryan sits with the mayor of craft, Nate Tomford. But Nate, I really appreciate you coming on. I look forward to, you know, developing our relationship and helping each other down the road. Absolutely. And I know people will find this story fascinating. And, you know, I love just learning about other people's kind of entrepreneurial journey. So I know that people will enjoy it. And thank you for coming on, brother.

Yeah, thank you for having me. It was fun. All right, guys, this is Ryan Offord, the host of the Radical Company Podcast. You can learn more about Poor Taproom online at poortaproom.com. Look up Nate Tomford on LinkedIn, other channels, anything else, Nate, where they can find you that you'd mentioned? Good place, LinkedIn or? LinkedIn's the best, yeah. Yeah, so look up Nate on LinkedIn and you can find us at radical.company online and at radical underscore results on Instagram. Thank you so much. We'll see you next time.