Right About Now with Ryan Alford - Why Grit Is More Important Than Talent: Eric Mac Lain’s Journey From Football To Business

Starting point is 00:00:00 Cause now I'm into it, what you need now? You're listening to The Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of The Radcast. I'm Ryan Alford, your host,

Starting point is 00:00:22 your number one business and marketing show on Apple Podcasts, we appreciate that. Wherever, whenever, your host, your number one business and marketing show on Apple Podcasts. We appreciate that. Wherever, whenever, however you're listening, we say if it's radical, we cover it. And any time I get friends and anyone associated with Clemson on the show because they're kicking ass and taking names, I get even more excited. I got my good friend Eric McLean. He's a college football analyst with ESPN, the ACC Network,

Starting point is 00:00:46 and, of course, the co-host of the Grammick and McLean podcast. What's up, Eric? Brother, listen, here's the deal. When I got the message to come on this show, I knew I'd made it. First take, ESPN, college game day, throw all that to the side. This is where I wanted to be, brother. So jacked up to be with you today. Appreciate you having me and excited to jump into a bunch of different things.

Starting point is 00:01:07 Hey, man. It's my pleasure, and I appreciate that. And at the end of the day, it's been fun watching your growth on TV, on the show with Kelly, you know, days at CCP. And, you know, but look, at Clemson, you know, being a big recruit and I watched your whole career unfold there. You know, you were a rock in some of the glory days at Clemson. We've talked about that. We won't hone in too hard. We're having a little bit of a struggle this year, but, you know, but it's been great. I've been, I've loved watching your growth and look, dude,

Starting point is 00:01:43 you're fucking killing it on TV. I love it, man. You look great. I'm sitting there watching your growth. Look, dude, you're fucking killing it on TV. I love it, man. You look great. I'm sitting there watching my boy. We were watching you on Saturday. I was sitting there with Nicole, and I'm like, Eric's coming on the show. She's like, oh, really?

Starting point is 00:01:53 I'm like, he does a great job. I'm like, yeah, he does. Come on, Nicole. Let's go. That's awesome. It's been so fun, man. I mean, the journey and the people I work with, I know we'll get into all that. But yeah, it has been a true blessing, man.

Starting point is 00:02:09 And it cannot be more excited, more thankful, more grateful for where I am and excited to chop it up with you today. Yeah, man. Well, let's set the table for everybody, Eric. Eric's, you know, don't don't let him be humble. He was he is he was a big time college athlete and uh but i want him to tell you his story and then we'll get into man that the game's changed a lot those few years it hasn't been long since you left there but we'll get in there i want to talk nil some

Starting point is 00:02:37 of the business stuff but let's set the table and let you kind of give a little bit of that backstory for everybody yeah no doubt man you're absolutely right the game you know it feels like i played a hundred years ago uh you know not eight or nine whatever it's been getting closer to 10 by the day but um yeah so so it's funny man my whole life uh i grew up wanting to be a basketball guy you know it's just it was my first love my true love and uh just just had such a knack for the sport. I'm a shooter. You know, I love to flick that thing and, you know, just stay on the court. I mean, for hours.

Starting point is 00:03:12 I mean, my brother and friends and family members, that's all we would do growing up. You know, don't come home until the lights are off. You know, the sun goes down because we're out shooting hoops. And, you know, it was funny. In a world now where I feel like everybody is so specialized, like you kind of pick, you know, that choice was kind of made for me because I always had aspirations to try to make it not just to college,

Starting point is 00:03:32 which is obviously a big deal and to have your school paid for and the doors of that'll open. But, you know, professionally, I just always felt like that was my thing. I was going to do that and thought it'd be at the NBA. And, you know, it was funny in high school, I stopped growing this way and started going out and started getting muscle and these type of things. So I was like, eh, basketball, this might be the end of the road. You know, varsity basketball might be the top for me. And, you know, so it was funny that decision kind of

Starting point is 00:04:00 made and then you really hone in, you know, on your sport. And obviously, you know, that's's the future so you give it so much attention and love and dedication and uh you know for me that was football so you know really my junior year uh of high school is when we started cranking that way up but i do have to go back a couple of years because i grew up a tennessee fan volunteers any balls listening uh that's where i always wanted to go. Peyton Manning, Coach Fulmer, Eric Berry, all these guys. And most of my family went to Tennessee. So it was really normal for me to want to do that and actually received a scholarship and committed as a ninth grader in high school to Tennessee to play football. Fast forward, Phillip Fulmer gets fired. Fast forward even more, Lane Kiffin comes in, and it just was such a culture shock. It was so different that I just didn't want any part of it.

Starting point is 00:04:52 And it broke my heart because that's where I wanted to go my whole life, run out of the T, be in Knoxville, do all these things. And it just so happens, talk about relationships and communicating all these different things in the business world that are so applicable. I got a crash course of that as a 15 year old kid um because one of the coaches that was on staff to tennessee that i've known for a long time um you know got hired by clemson by coach dabbo sweeney his name's dan brooks was one of the best defensive line coaches ever um and so after i decommitted you know he hits me up and he says, Hey, you know,

Starting point is 00:05:25 big Mac, it's Dan, it's coach Brooks. And I'm at Clemson now. I was like, coach, what's up? This is all I hadn't heard from, you know, he was very respectful, did not hit me up until after I decommitted. And he's like, Oh, I'm at Clemson. I'm like Clemson. I legitimately Ryan had no clue what or where Clemson was. Had zero clue. I grew up in SEC country. My grandmother and her side of the family went to Alabama. Her husband and my mom and all of them went to Tennessee. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:05:54 I did not know that about you, Eric. I didn't remember that. Maybe we had that discussion. Because you always seem like a Clemson guy. You know, when I first met you, I'm like, this guy, this is a Clemson man right here. Adopted quick. Adopted quick. And, you know, so he's telling me that he's like oh come come check it out I'm like where is it what do you you know all these different things he's like well we're in South

Starting point is 00:06:13 Carolina uh we're in the ACC and I said whoa no heck no like I'm not doing that and uh which is so comical now looking back at it all and uh you know so finally fast forward a year almost he hits me up again he says just come by and visit i think you'll like you know what you see so now i'm going into my senior year you know kind of the end of my junior year and uh we do it we go and see it and you know we're coming off the highway 85 on 19b right there uh we're seeing the the paw prints the sun setting so you know it's purple and orange i'm like where the heck are we this is great this is perfect yeah and uh you know it's just this dream situation well all the other schools that i've been to are in these big cities

Starting point is 00:06:55 you know it's when you look at uh you know like columbus and and knoxville and auburn's pretty similar but you know all these different schools there's there's these big cities kind of around there clemson it's farm it's farm town you know i'm saying in little towns and so we're passing like this sunflower patch uh right on perimeter and we're looking at the tom tom the gps whatever and you know it says you're a minute away i'm like there is nothing where is a stadium about to come out of here and i'm getting i'm just talking about it right now but you know when you make that turn on perimeter and then death valley just rips out of those trees man and i'm just like whoa this is cool like this is nuts and it's obviously a big stadium um and then i meet coach sweeney and i mean you talk about a no-name guy, never been a coordinator, was a head coach for maybe half the season and was in the midst of a losing season, something of that nature.

Starting point is 00:07:51 And so had no like no type of, oh, my God, that's Davo type thing yet. And but when I met him, man, in the passion, the enthusiasm, the genuine love for his players in the game of football. I was like, this is different. You know, this is different from anything I had ever seen before. And it was so infectious, man, that literally in a two day span, I was like, I'll do anything for that guy. Like, I want to play for him right now. And so it was it's so comical to me that, you know, we think that we have our plan and,

Starting point is 00:08:24 you know, God kind of has his plan. And I never even knew where this place was, man. And in an instant, I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life there. And it was so powerful just to have that kind of conviction and to know that guy and then to see where it grew and went on. So the rest is kind of history with that. But it's a wild story how I even got to start, you know, at Clemson University. Yeah, and it's crazy because, I mean, you started tight end, right? Then you go tight.

Starting point is 00:08:50 I was like, low leaner when I came to campus. Yeah, yeah, you know, tight end, catch a block, catch some balls. That's right, because he's big Paul. Yeah, yeah, you're going to catch some balls and then go on to be a pretty dominant O-lineman before it was all said and done. What was your last year at Clemson? 15. Yeah, 15.

Starting point is 00:09:10 So I got the silver medal, which is brutal, man. Dude, you needed one more year. Where's your COVID year or whatever you needed? The COVID year, dude. I was just before my time and everything I did at Clemson, man. Yeah, if you're listening, Clemson won the national title in 2016. So that table got set by Eric McLean. I like to tell myself that at least.

Starting point is 00:09:35 I'll spread that story. We'll go with it. That's right. Yeah. All right, we'll close out the Clemson years, but what's like one of the most memorable games, what was, all right, let's, you know, we'll close out the Clemson years, but what's like one of the most memorable games, memorable moments, you know, what sticks in your head? I mean, I know, I'm sure there's a lot of different things, but like, is there like a moment, a game or something that just, when you have, when you get asked this question now, it like pops to the top. When you get asked this question now, it, like, pops to the top.

Starting point is 00:10:06 There's two. There are two. And one is, obviously, that national championship game, you know, losing to Alabama. Just because we got there, right? We got to the mountaintop. And it was something that, you know, I think every little kid dreams about as they're running around playing in their backyard of playing in a national championship, winning it, hopefully.

Starting point is 00:10:24 And, you know, for us just to do what we did at Clemson and to get to that mountain and to change the culture and what we had done the previous years to get there was just special. And, you know, something that, you know, we always thought was possible. That's why, you know, my 2011 class came there and really was kind of that building block. A lot of those guys, what we were able to do on top of who Alabama was and what they were doing.

Starting point is 00:10:49 I mean, you're talking about peak dominance. I mean, these guys had just been wrecking people, winning all these national championships. And we went into the game as heavy underdogs. And I remember reading and hearing all the talk about how our offensive line was going to get just destroyed and of course being an offensive lineman you take that very personal and uh you know we dominated and i just knew that you know going into the game it was like ryan if i make one mistake even if i

Starting point is 00:11:18 step the wrong way i'm gonna get abused by this guy like i'm gonna get absolutely ruined uh so it just made you play so much better. I think that was my best game by far too. Just kind of all that on the line there. And, you know, just being there in the last one ever was truly amazing. On a more positive note, my other favorite is that Notre Dame game. Pretty personal game for me. That's where my father is from up there.

Starting point is 00:11:42 He grew up a Golden Domer, loved Notre Dame. And, you know, a lot of our family members either love them or hate them that are up there because it's kind of 50 50 and so once i knew they were on the schedule and it was my senior year i was like this is going to be a party uh b-y-o-g baby hurricane was that b-y-o-g okay it's all of it it's all of it and you know the hurricane everything that had, you know, to do with it. I mean, South Carolina was in a state of emergency. Yeah. Nikki Haley said Clemson's playing ball.

Starting point is 00:12:09 All right. I was sitting in the stands. I've never been more wet in my entire life. I didn't get up the entire time. I'm sure your boots are still soaked, man. Oh, dude. My rain gear has never been the same. But I sat there and cheered you on.

Starting point is 00:12:23 I was like. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So that one was a lot of fun. And just the way it ended. I mean, a goal line stand. And I've got this really cool picture of just me and my brother.

Starting point is 00:12:33 My brother played on the team as well. Walk on wide receiver. Of us just embracing on the field. So just a lot of great memories from that one. Oh, yeah. Ben Boulware and company making the stop there on the goal line. That was memorable and, God, a nasty game. I've never been so happy and miserable in my whole life.

Starting point is 00:12:52 That's right. If we'd have lost, I was sitting there going, I don't know that I let it creep into my head. I think I thought about it after. I was in elation and happy. I knew I'd been soaked for four hours or five hours. And if we had lost, wow, this would really have stunk. Like, it's had this rain, but God, that's what a fan does.

Starting point is 00:13:13 You know what's funny about sitting there? You talk about being there for five hours. We knew, like, all day leading up to it that it was going to be bad. Like, raining and horrible and the state of emergency announcement, all these things so we fully expected to come around that stadium and it'd be like half full and brother that was not even close we got even more people there and i think the rain just like juiced y'all up that was one of the craziest loud games i'd ever been a part of it was nuts nuts it was completely nuts and i was actually there

Starting point is 00:13:45 with my uh father-in-law nicole's dad and uh we were the two sit there we were just sitting there like just i mean buttoned up like let's look you know we're staring each other like it's just i mean it was just because you've gone to those games where you know sprinkles or whatever and it's just dumping rain the entire time but uhOG, that was one of Dabo's favorite quotes. Bring your own guts, baby. I actually got it right here. I got a prop. This was unpropted, but I got it right here on my desk.

Starting point is 00:14:12 Always there. I love it. Hey, man. It's been a whirlwind. You're badass at Clemson. You set up. You set the table for the national title or 2016. Now, I mean, you're a big dog.

Starting point is 00:14:32 You're at ACC Network on TV. You got your own podcast. I'm like, my boy. My boy's like, the dog runs up. He's making it. So what's that been like, man? What's the professional journey been like kind of getting to this point yeah no it was crazy man because i talk about uh you know those pro aspirations and and something that really you know my whole career i still thought would happen

Starting point is 00:14:58 uh you know even changing positions and playing a playing a position i never played in my life and then thinking you know okay you're gonna to go to the NFL and do this. I never had a doubt that I would and, you know, kind of make that next step. But like I said, there are different plans that happen. And so, you know, right after I start training and, you know, go and do all the different things and don't get picked up in the draft, which was brutal. I don't know if you've ever talked to anybody that has never been drafted.

Starting point is 00:15:25 But you get your whole family there. You're at the house. People are – and I'm hearing stuff. Like I'm thinking it's going to happen. And, you know, you got everybody there, man. And there is nothing more like embarrassing, saddening, make you angry, like all these different things because that phone don't ring. And all those people are just like, now, you know, we,

Starting point is 00:15:45 we just were with you for all this time. Now what? And dude, that was not, it wasn't a dark time because you know, I would always have a plan like what's next type of deal. But it was, I mean, it was a flash in the bottle. Like, Oh my gosh, this is miserable. You would think they'd have a way to buy. I've talked to a couple of guys now about that very thing and i've watched i mean nothing worse than the what the green room thing where they've sat there and they haven't they haven't even told them i mean like that's that's it times a thousand like but it's the same thing like it might i don't know if that's

Starting point is 00:16:17 worse or better than you're sitting there and you've got your 50 best friends over and it's like you would think they could throw you a bone like yeah like like every team could at least go you know like you could go am i gonna it was especially if you're seventh round it's not like it shouldn't be that much intel at that point i wouldn't think like are you and i like you sign some agreement that you won't tell anyone so they don't right and so like so that you don't like over plan for it. Couldn't they do that? It's crazy is we actually got a, I got a call from the Cowboys in the fifth round. They were probably five, six picks away, which would have been a great spot.

Starting point is 00:16:56 I mean, there's a lot of money in the fifth round and Dallas would have been amazing. And I get a call from, I believe it was the offensive line coach has been suppressed out of my memory now my memory now but and he calls he says hey man we love you you know if we take an offensive lineman here you're the guy and i'm freaking out i'm like this is amazing and then the call never comes they take like a cornerback and uh the rest of the draft you know i didn't have i maybe had one thing in the seventh uh and then that was it and you're just like uh what happened because it's even more awkward because a lot of those guys you know some people kind of like what you

Starting point is 00:17:30 said they go into it and have these kind of free agent things already signed well i didn't so you're talking about a full 24 hours of silence and i'm just like it's crazy like do i just move on like is this is this it this is over and uh know, so the next day I hear from the Panthers, you know, we do like the mini camp thing, go up there. And I'm excited, right, because it's right here, hometown. My wife, that's like her favorite team and her family's favorite team. This is awesome. This is going to be a cool, you know, kind of story to tell.

Starting point is 00:17:58 Man, I get up there and they had drafted a first round defensive end, defensive tackle kind of guy. And in the first, spent a lot of money on them. I go up there and dude, I killed it. Like I'm just murdering one-on-one pass rush, all these different drills. I'm like, I'm feeling great. And you know, I'm thinking clearly making this team and they kind of have a meeting with a lot of guys in there and they say, Hey, you know, we're so sorry. The way the numbers are, you know, we we've got to cut you,

Starting point is 00:18:26 but we want you guys to stay healthy. And I'm looking around like, no way. Like this is, there's nothing else I could have done. There's no way I could have done better. And you know, so then I have kind of a one-on-one meeting with the GM and the offensive line coach. And they're like, Hey man, you know, we really like you. It's just a numbers thing. We need this position. We don't need – but stay healthy. Keep working out.

Starting point is 00:18:48 Maybe by week, like, seven or eight, we'll call you if somebody gets hurt. And I'm just like, no. That's not how this is about to go. I can either sign right now or – To this day – so to this day, can you – I mean, do you – you know, sometimes we think about things in the moment, and then you think about long – but to this day, do you feel like you more than were better than maybe guys that were making the team?

Starting point is 00:19:11 Oh, yeah. And I know you were a badass. I mean, it doesn't surprise me to hear that. No, but you were a great player. I mean, it's like, you know, anybody that doesn't know, Eric McClain was a badass offensive lineman. And let me tell you this, though. I'll take it a step further.

Starting point is 00:19:24 Guys that I'm covering right now in my job, I them at the next level i'm like bro how did i not make this is crazy so but they gave but they gave you but they gave you nothing like no one to this day is really giving you like timing okay timing thing yeah just the timing thing and so i i reversed it on them though because you know i'm about to get married. I'm not, number one, just sitting around not being paid. And number two, I'm not going to jump all across the country on some practice squad hoping and praying something happens. So I kind of flipped it on them and said, here's the deal. I'll sign right now, and this will be great, or I'm done.

Starting point is 00:20:01 And they were shocked, man. They're like, what? What are you talking about? No way. And I said, yeah, that's kind of how it is and they said well we're sorry so I walked out of that thing man and I called my wife first and you know she's devastated because obviously that's what we've done you know my whole life her whole life too her dad grew up playing football her brother plays football so our lives have been football um and so it

Starting point is 00:20:22 obviously very sad for me um and then just kind of the what's next thing the next call uh is to my parents and then the third one is to Graham Neff at Clemson and I kind of say hey I just got cut uh I'm done I want to finish my master's and I don't want to pay for it and he said we'll see on Monday we'll figure it out and that was kind of the beginning of uh of a business eric mclean i i not fully i think i i knew the panthers thing but i'd not fully know like that you didn't like seek out other things and like that you just kind of drew it was it was just like yeah well but eric look it's proven out how talented you are on and off the field. No, I'm serious.

Starting point is 00:21:06 I'm going to brag for you. Like, you know, and I think, you know, some people don't know that they have other options. And I think, you know, you had dabbled in some things and, you know, shown your worth on and off the field in building relationships, being good at speaking with people. And, you know, just overall, overall i don't know acumen for how to be a business person and i think that that superseded any ability on the field so i think that set you up and you knew that on some level right and maybe that and just pride and stubbornness combined who knows we all know who that is i got the t-shirt and the you know the lashings and everything else to go with it but uh 100 i mean so uh but no other did other teams ever call did everybody ever one team called in uh in september and uh it was actually the tennessee

Starting point is 00:21:59 titans which would have been great too being from tennessee and uh yeah i told them i told them i'm done and they were just just shocked they're like are you kidding me I said yeah just take me off the list man it's all good it's crazy but you know you I think you knew you know maybe you wanted to do what you're doing you knew there was a I will say I will say there was um maybe not right in that moment but maybe a week or so later there was almost a freedom of you know, because that's how you had been identified, how I had been identified my whole life. Oh, it's a football. This is Eric, the football player, you know, and that,

Starting point is 00:22:31 there was something about that chapter being closed and not, you know, just identifying like that, which I never did personally. Cause there's so much more to life, but you know, not having that. But then it is, you know, funny. That game will always pull you back. You're always right back in it somewhere or another. Well, now, you know, now you're there. So where did we go from there and what got you all the way to today?

Starting point is 00:22:58 Yeah, yeah, crazy. So did the graduate, you know, assistantship with Clemson was kind of with football and basketball and baseball with a bunch of different things there so have a natty ring i was on that team just in a different capacity so i did that for about nine months and then a a new venture was coming to clemson uh in jmi sports i'm not sure if you ever ran across with with those guys so i sold for them um for really like two and a half years or so, maybe, which was, you know, it was funny at the time, Graham, or excuse me, Dan Radakovich called me in his office and just was like, Hey you know, this is happening.

Starting point is 00:23:34 We think it would be a really good kind of foundational piece for you. Cause he knew I wanted to go into college athletics from the administrative route. We think you, we, you should take it. It's a sales role, blah, blah, blah. You kind of see a different vantage point that a lot of people don't with these multimedia rights. And so at the time, I was just like, maybe and he's like, No, I really think you should do it. So I go and do it kind of hesitantly. And man, that has been one of the biggest blessings of my life. Because the foundational, it was basically another grad school, right? A real life degree where I'm learning how to sell. I'm learning marketing.

Starting point is 00:24:10 I'm learning law and contracts and how to just sit and have a meeting, how to set up a meeting, you know, with somebody and had a cold call, like all these attributes that, you know, we teach and coach, you know, when you're in school, but, you know, to have this real life learning for two years and some change has been an unbelievable foundation for me that I still use to this day with the podcast. And you see this sponsor right behind me with Ingles and, you know, all these different things that I never would have ever thought about taking that route if it wasn't placed, you know, kind of in my way there. So I'm forever grateful for that time.

Starting point is 00:24:45 And, you know, it's such a fun piece. So I'm forever grateful for that time. And, you know, it's such a fun piece that I can pull from and learnings and different things that we did there. So did that for about two years in Greenville. And then our national championship season in 18, where we're just killing everybody, kicking everybody's tail. We're out in California for the natty. And, you know, we went a couple of days early as a family, and we're doing all these different things. And kind of within that, I had been doing the fifth quarter show for Clemson,

Starting point is 00:25:11 which is a radio show after the game, 90 minutes. You know, you're talking about all different kinds of things. So I kind of dipped back into, you know, a little bit of media there on top of my sales stuff. So I was out there for that as well, but also just as a fan. So, you know, we're out and about with the family and doing all these things. And I get a call from a guy and, uh, you know, answer, say, Hey, you know,

Starting point is 00:25:31 how you doing? This is, this is so-and-so from, from ESPN. And all I'm thinking is, you know, he wants an interview. He wants to talk about the game, you know, me being a former captain playing in a national championship. And I had done a lot of that with various outlets leading up. So I'm like, hey, you know, what's up? And they're like, hey, we're out in California. Are you here?

Starting point is 00:25:48 We'd love to meet up, talk about the game. And I was like, oh, man, we're in San Francisco. Maybe talk to you later. Kind of blow them off. Next day, you know, text me, hey, are you at the hotel? Which it was our hotel, but I wasn't there. It's like, hey, can you come to the lobby? We'd love to talk again.

Starting point is 00:26:03 I'm like, no, I'm in Carmel. Sorry, see you later. You know the lobby? Would love to talk again. I'm like, no, I'm in Carmel. So see you later. You know, I'm blowing this person off thinking that it's a writer or thinking it's a TV person, whatever. And, you know, so then fast forward to Monday, the game, he goes, hey, I know you're going to the game. Can we meet up at the game somewhere? And so now I'm kind of like, this is weird.

Starting point is 00:26:20 Why does this person keep texting? You know, it's so strange. And I was like, hey, can you get... I'm kind of testing them. I was like, hey, can you get on the field? Let's meet on the field, seeing if they're really ESPN or not. They're like, oh, that's perfect. I'm like, okay. This is legit.

Starting point is 00:26:36 I text them. They're saying, hey, we're wrapping up TV. I'll come over there in a second. I'm like, okay. I don't know who you are. I've Googled this person's name. It's nowhere. I'm like, who the this is, you know, I don't know who you are. Cause I can't, I've Googled this person's name. It's nowhere. I'm like, who the heck is this? And so then there, I called them when they say they're walking over. Cause I don't see anybody who I think I'm looking for. And I see a person answer their phone. He's in like khaki pants,

Starting point is 00:26:57 an untucked polo, a vest on. And I'm like, there is no way this person was just on TV. Like what is happening? This is so weird. And they come over, shake my hand, you know, act like we're, you know, best friends, all this stuff, very personable. And starts asking me all these questions about the game. Like, what do I think is going to happen? Da da da.

Starting point is 00:27:16 And they're not writing anything down. Cause again, now I'm thinking they're a writer. They're not on TV. They're a writer, not writing anything down, not recording anything. And I'm getting kind of mad, right? Cause I'm like, I'm going to go tailgate with my fam. What are we doing here? You're in a job interview and you don't even know it.

Starting point is 00:27:32 I'm killing me. I'm just ruining the interview. And then this guy hits me with a very transitional matter of fact. So there's going to be some new opportunity coming with ESPN. We would like to fly you up to Bristol next week and see if you want to be a part of the team. And bro, I blacked out. Did you fall down or did you? What are you talking about? It totally, I don't even know what I said. I guess I said yes. Cause I was on the plane and it was so crazy.

Starting point is 00:28:02 Cause I was so, I was happy, you know, we're in Greenville, we're doing our thing and all this stuff, not looking for anything. And again, you know, God just put something in your path. And, you know, my wife and I were like, this is this isn't real life. And I would have done it no matter what. But it obviously made a lot of sense for a lot of different reasons. And man, fast forward. This is my fifth football season and the relationships

Starting point is 00:28:26 that i've created the the brothers that i work with um it's it's truly i'm i literally have to pinch myself at times to hope that i'm not about to wake up uh but it's incredible you know to be able to do this yeah man if you uh if you watch football at all, you've probably caught Eric on the ACC Network with Mark Richt. Who else is on your regular show? You've got the quarterback, EJ. Eddie Royal played at Virginia Tech. Our host is Kelsey Riggs. Yes, you guys are doing a great job.

Starting point is 00:29:02 It's interesting. The ACC Network just got started when you were at the ground up. The production quality has increased every year. It now feels kind of like a grown-up show. I mean, and I don't even mean that disrespectfully. It's like everything takes time. It's true. But now all the prom promos everything seems a little

Starting point is 00:29:26 tighter and better and like the team you guys all riffed off each other good you got good chemistry you know it's fun what what's what's mark like mark rick like you know he's the best he really is and you know it's it is um i'm very grateful that we had our early years that i met him you know before uh he was announced and with parkinson's and and yeah obviously that has taken a toll on him but he he's truly one of a kind as a human being i mean it has been such a great example for for me as as a young man uh especially more at the first time i met him, just how to love your wife, man, how to, you know, care for her, you know, your children, how to be a great dad. And, you know, has been an unbelievable example, you know, for me.

Starting point is 00:30:14 And I hope he knows that. I tell him it all the time. I'm sure he does. And then to develop, you know, as friends and to, you know, text and call and, you know, hang out outside of work, you know, with one another. And that goes for our whole team. It's truly amazing.

Starting point is 00:30:29 But he's one of the best, man. And Witty has all get out, has created, not just learn, has created more football. And when you talk about offenses, then I'll ever even know. And is just truly one of a kind human being. So he makes us better, man. And it's a joy to work with him every Saturday. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:46 He seems kind of like the Wiley. He's over there sitting there and you're like, yeah, he's got kind of like, but he still looks so young. So I know how old he is. I know, but he's the Wiley veteran kind of sitting there letting you guys correlate the thoughts. But he knows because he's lived and breathed it for so long no but he's I've always I've never met him but I've just everybody lights up when they talk about him like in in that positive way just that he's a great guy and he's

Starting point is 00:31:16 been a part of some great stuff I mean you talk about Florida State back in the 90s I mean pretty much inventing the fast break you know offense for football uh then georgia the things he was able to do and you know to bring miami back to a respectable kind of point there he's he's done it all man he's a cool cat yes exactly and uh you'll understand this because you got them behind you but i have to pause to give a little shout out to one of our sponsors caldera lab hey eric i'm 46 baby i can't you know i don't have that baby face like you anymore i gotta i have to have my products you know that's right so caldera lab the premium men's skincare delivered right to your home the official

Starting point is 00:31:58 skincare provider of the radcast and ryan offered use rad r Ryan. You'll get 20% off. And, you know, I'm trying to keep up with Eric and, you know, removing my ears. You got it. You got it, big dog. Yes, calderalab.com, official skincare provider of me. And follow me on social media. You'll learn more about Caldera Lab. We're doing all kinds of fun things with partnership.

Starting point is 00:32:20 Transitioning back, Eric, I mean, so now you got the podcast you kelly you know i know you talked about that being a little bit more the entrepreneurial you know probably changing your path you you probably use all your skill sets that you learned on that job you're talking about the marketing the contracts and all that uh talk about the podcast a little bit oh man it's been incredible um you know and it's so funny. Kelly and I have known each other since we, you know, both started at Clemson. You know, and again, me being a hooper, you know, I was kind of gravitating towards the basketball team at times,

Starting point is 00:32:54 especially summer. You know, we're the only people up there. There's no, you know, it's just athletes on campus. And so you all kind of mix together, especially that freshman class. We're the same age. And, you know, I just love to hoop. And so, you know, kind of met her through that. And, you know, our friendship really developed.

Starting point is 00:33:11 And, you know, then it really, you know, took it to another level when we both kind of got done with Clemson and got into the media world. Her obviously starting at CCP had written, you know, for Clemson and done a bunch of stuff there. And then when the network launched, I called my guy right away. I mean, I don't even know this cat, but I call him and say, hey, I know we need basketball people. Go get Kelly Gramlich.

Starting point is 00:33:34 Like, she's unbelievable. Played, great shooter, all these things, meet all the qualifications. And, you know, obviously they did that and she's been a home run, but we've always wanted to do, or we always wanted to do something together, whether, whether it was radio, try to do some type of TV show, something. And then as we kind of were brainstorming that after our first full season with ESPN, the world shuts down, COVID happens, you know, and we're just like, what the heck do we do? You know,

Starting point is 00:34:03 what are we going to figure out? How can we do this, this and that? And we're like, let's just do a podcast. And so we took about probably two to three months, man, of just planning. Like we knew we were going to do it. How do we want to lay it out? I need artwork. We need show title, all these different things so that when we start, you know, it looks like we've been doing this for a while.

Starting point is 00:34:21 So that was October of 20. Now, fast forward you know three four football seasons we're in 23 and you know it's funny I kind of told her I don't know if we'll make money off this um I think that we can sell it you know kind of with my background and you know we funny funny enough we got a sponsor probably within three months Sunshine Beverage I'll never forget them uh our first ever guys they're out of uh you know winston-salem north carolina and that's when i was like okay this can be for real like we can do some cool stuff if we continue to grow our celebrity on tv and we mash that together

Starting point is 00:34:56 in something that we can control and sell there's something really cool here to now we have a multi-year deal with with ing. They've been an unbelievable sponsor. There's still room to add other things. We didn't, you know, totally exclusive exclusivity and, you know, kind of map it out there. So that has been so much fun and to just see how it grows. I mean, I know, you know, all of this as well with what you're doing, but we went from, you know, doing stuff over zoom to doing stuff over Riverside, just audio to then saying,

Starting point is 00:35:23 well, why the heck aren't we tapping into this video element, uh, into that? And then just now it's, it's all about the growth and the guests and how can we, you know, magnify this thing even more with social media. So it's been a lot of fun to see it grow, man. Yeah, man, you guys are doing a great job. What, what's, what would you call the overall topics? Like, you know, for anybody listening that might want to check it out, like what's the overall subject matter of the show? Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, really we started as trying to be kind of a subset of Packer and Durham.

Starting point is 00:35:57 Like we wanted to be, you know, kind of the all ACC sports. You know, we're going to talk about all that from our perspective, a little bit younger, having played, you know, obviously at at that level and so that's what we really that's what we started year one and what we found man is when we got to like uh shoot February or March and if we did like one spring football episode it spiked likeiked like crazy. Like the viewership, the numbers were nuts. And it's not just Clemson football. This is, you know, all ACC football. And so that summer, man, we had a big conversation

Starting point is 00:36:33 and we're just like, look, I know you play basketball. I know you love basketball. I think we should move this to just an ACC football podcast. And funny, funny, she had no hesitation. She's like, I agree. I mean, i see these numbers too and so that's what we do man college football uh with with a primary focus on acc football uh during the year we go three episodes a week monday wednesday friday kind of in the the

Starting point is 00:36:56 spring season off season we do two a week and that's all kind of nfl combine spring ball things that are happening and then really around may uh around May to July, we go one episode, and it's a big guest. Like we're trying to have a heavy hitter, you know, a Kirk Herbstreit type, somebody in the sports area. And those have been unbelievable too. The people that we've met and stories we've told there have been a lot of fun.

Starting point is 00:37:21 Yeah, so anybody out there that follows ACC football, or if you don't you need to come on in check out eric and kelly's show uh you know you'll you'll love if you love watching eric and you're listening to him now he is uh one of the nicest guys in the industry and we uh we need to give him some love so give them go boost some numbers over there on Eric and Kelly's show. Hey, man, everybody, talk a little about your professional journey and what you've done. A lot of people here think about sports and working in sports

Starting point is 00:37:59 and what it takes to do that. I remember growing up thinking, oh, I'd love to work in sports and all that sort of thing. Like, now that you do it for a profession and, you know, you're becoming a pro, you know, or a pro, you know, like, what's been maybe, like, the biggest aha transition, like, or surprise in what it takes to be a pro in this arena? Like, what do you feel like has maybe been the most eye-opening

Starting point is 00:38:28 or something that people maybe not realize? How much film you have to watch. Like, think about it like this, man. When I was a player, I watched one team every week, and that's it. You know, I focus on South Carolina, and I'm going gonna know everything that they do in this role uh especially it's a little bit easier for me because i'm a conference affiliated network i have to watch all 14 schools each and every week and know what they're doing why they're

Starting point is 00:38:57 doing it and then here's the kicker if they're playing at a conference then i have to watch 28 schools and so it's just it's a lot of time man and i think the i think the most interesting thing about that that was the initial like okay you got to hunker down and really you know if you want to be great you know i can i could be good and talk about ball and you know what we did back in the day all these different things but if i want to tell you what these teams are doing and what they're gonna do or or what I think they're going to do. That takes some real effort. But I'll tell you, the biggest kind of growing piece for me was going into year three, coming kind of out of COVID. If we're if we're out now, I don't know if we are or aren't.

Starting point is 00:39:34 Yeah, it's hard to know. Time management thing of I don't have to cram all of this right now at this time for two reasons. Number one, you're going to burn out and you're just going to be exhausted. Number two, things change so much with transfer portal, with all these different things to where, Hey, if I crammed for the year in July come September, these guys that I just studied might not even be on the team.

Starting point is 00:40:01 You know what I'm saying? So it's all this wasted world to where you've got to really, you've got to segment it out and you have to understand the ebbs and flows of the season and the changes that can be had. And, you know, I think that that balance really started to come into my life and being able to find that going into the third season. And that's what I,

Starting point is 00:40:20 people don't realize like how much of a pro like Eric and these guys are. I mean, he's an analyst. If I say that about stocks, then I think you think like something else. But no, these guys are putting the work in. They don't just turn the camera on and Eric magically can look at the film while he's talking and go, oh yeah, that's what they're running and that's that guy's and I know who he just had an issue that his father was having. It takes work, man. I mean, you know, it doesn't just come.

Starting point is 00:40:54 And I think that's where, you know, you're really starting to shine as a pro with your analysis. And, hey, man, we might have to have a part two, but I do before – I know we only got just a few minutes of your time left. Well, NIL, man, I know we can't cover it in three minutes, but is it good, bad, or indifferent? Is it the Wild West? What's your perspective?

Starting point is 00:41:14 The way that it is right now and the way that there are different rules for different states, there's different rules for different institutions, there's different rules just wherever you are regionally. I think it's terrible for where we are. We either need kind of national federal rules or we need no rules. It can't be this weird middle ground that we are because number one, it's not fair.

Starting point is 00:41:40 Different schools are held to different standards and have different resources and are allowed to do different things. And, you know, all these different things. I think it's, number one, how do you keep track of it? You know, it's crazy to do that. The lack of monitoring is baffling to me. And really where it is right now, Ryan, is not at all how it was presented

Starting point is 00:42:02 in regards to this is what happens now. If you If you're X player, you come to me, whether you're a recruit or a transfer, you come to me as the head coach and say, I need 50 grand to come here. Like what? Okay. That's the principle. The principle to me is I have the right to sell my name. I have the right to go fund when I can chase it. I can sign with an agent. I can get it done. Not here's my hand, fill it up with money. You know, that's not the thing to me.

Starting point is 00:42:31 Now, if you want to go out and sell and have conversations and hold camps and use your social media, that's amazing, but that's not the case, man. And it's baffling to me. Um, I've heard horror stories on both sides from the player that's done all this stuff with their social media and hasn't gotten paid. And also from the companies that have paid these players up front. And when it comes time for content or it comes times to activation, players know where to be found. So it's a tough spot right now. Obviously the haves and have nots are just even furthering away from each other. I hope that we can get some type of federal help here just to play everybody to play by the same rules.

Starting point is 00:43:09 That's all I want. That's all I think that's fair for everybody. We'll see if that happens. We'll see if it happens. Well said. It's complicated, but I don't think it has to be quite the wild, wild rest and complicated as it is. I think it could be simplified.

Starting point is 00:43:26 So hopefully we get there. Eric, where can everybody keep up? I mean, all they have to do is turn to the ACC network. They're going to see your grill right there shining, going, saying something smart, saying something funny. But where can everybody keep up with you, brother? Yeah, I appreciate you, man. Anywhere on social media, man, Instagram, Twitter, Eric McLean right there, and then the podcast, Gramlich and McLean, wherever.

Starting point is 00:43:48 We prefer YouTube. Get those numbers up, baby, but it's wherever you can find it. You just want to listen to it in the car on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all those things, and, of course, ESPN and ACC Network. We have a good time, man, and I appreciate you. This was so much fun, man. We've got to do it again. Yeah, I know.

Starting point is 00:44:04 I think we're going to have to have a quarterly McLean. That's right. Maybe we'll make it whatever it is. We'll talk football. We'll talk whatever the heck's happened. Being a dad, I know you've got a beautiful daughter. I appreciate you for coming on. Hey, guys.

Starting point is 00:44:21 You know where to find us. Theradcast.com. Search for Eric McLean. You'll find all the highlight clips today. We'll have links to the McLean podcast, the Graham Lincoln McLean podcast, all of Eric's stuff, and you know where to find me. I'm at Ryan Offord, that blue checkmark, way before you could buy it. We'll see you next time on The Radcast.

Starting point is 00:44:40 To listen or watch full episodes, visit us on the web at theradcast.com or follow us on social media at our Instagram account, the.rad.cast or at Ryan Alford. Stay radical.

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