Right About Now with Ryan Alford - Why Podcasting Is Like Dating: Finding The Right Match For Your Brand | Spencer Carpenter

Starting point is 00:00:00 There's so many people that say, Rune's got a podcast now, it seems saturated. Okay, well, are books no longer coming out? Are you no longer making Instagram profiles? I mean, it's just one more thing, but it's something that I think is way more valuable than a lot of the rest. This is Right About Now with Ryan Alford,

Starting point is 00:00:17 a Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over 1 million downloads a month. Taking the BS out of business for over six years and over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping next and cashing checks? Well, it starts right about now. What's up guys? Welcome to Right About Now. Hey, we're taking the BS out of business, baby.

Starting point is 00:00:42 One step at a time. You know, we like podcasts around here. It might be self-serving a bit, but we believe in them. We love them. So we want to bring you, you know, guests that talk about the medium. There's a lot of things that go into podcasting, and there's a lot of things behind the scenes that people don't know. There's things about the power of podcasting, booking guests, the influence that it can have and really where the state of the medium is.

Starting point is 00:01:20 And I'm pumped today because we've got Spencer Carpenter. And I'm pumped today because we've got Spencer Carpenter. He is the founder of Outlier Audio. And hey, I've just learned a serial entrepreneur. What's up, Spencer? Hey, thanks so much for having me. Hey, I'm glad you could make it in to G Vegas. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:01:39 Here on vacation. Figured I'd stop on in. I know. Hey, you're the new studio. You know, like we got the lighting effects and, you know, the gold shining on you. We got the belt. Yes. I'll let you wear that if you want.

Starting point is 00:01:55 We'll let you get it on you. Oh, man. Outlier Audio, Spencer, podcast booking agent. I mean, that's really at the core of what you do. And we'll go down that path, but talk to, let's set the table for our audience and, you know, obviously everyone has a journey. Sure. I think you have a pretty fascinating one in the music business, as we talked about, but let's set the table for everyone about sort of your entrepreneurial path and then where we are today. Yeah. So I started booking concerts when I was 15 and then, you know, kind of progressed into doing multi-day music conferences and festivals. And I ran some small record labels and did tour booking and artist management and stuff like that. But pretty much

Starting point is 00:02:42 all along the way, I was always dealing on either side of talent representation. And in 2017, when I found podcast, I was listening to these people giving away the keys of the kingdom to all kinds of things, how to make money, how to buy real estate and investing. And I just assumed if you were on a podcast, you were like Mark Cuban, Grant Cardone, Richard Brent, celebrity style entrepreneurs. And then I found out that, for lack of a better term, they were Joe Schmo investor. They're Joe Schmo entrepreneur, but they were really good at what they did. And it just got me thinking about how for so many people, their title is just like their job is just their title to everyone around them and it's never really considered that they're talented at what they do they've got a skill and a knack for it

Starting point is 00:03:30 except within their circles and so I just figured there was probably no one supporting them like that and so when uh unfortunately my boss passed away from COVID on March 9th, 2020, and then three days later, the whole music industry got shut down. And so stuck in quarantine, I was like, everyone else is stuck, too, not just artists. You can't go speak at conferences. You can't do meetups. You can't go to expos. And podcasts were a place where everyone could, like, perform while stuck at home. And so I just started reaching out to people and saying, do you want to get booked on some shows while you while stuck at home. And so I just started reaching out to people and

Starting point is 00:04:05 saying, do you want to get booked on some shows while you're stuck at home? And I'll coordinate it for you. I'll help build your pitch. I'll build like what your topics are, what's unique. And it just kind of snowballed from there. What I, what I think about you talking in a, back to like the booking with bands and things like that, it's a relationship game, isn't it? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like I get the sense from you as being kind of a people person. You know, like, I don't know. I've never met a stranger.

Starting point is 00:04:35 Yeah. You know, like, know how to warm up to people, know how to get them to trust you, like you, all those things. Like, there's a salesmanship to it. But the old saying of it's not what you know, it's who you know. Yeah. It's, it's gotta be true for you. Oh yeah. I mean, when I have clients that do in-person interviews, I fly out on my own dime to get FaceTime with the team. I want to be able to reutilize those relationships. And, uh, it's definitely, it's definitely a relationship game and that's

Starting point is 00:05:05 part of the reason why publicists were kind of slow to jump on this is that they've already got so many relationships to manage and so then when you throw this medium out there that's got hundreds of thousands of active shows but let's just say business thousands of shows it's a lot of relationships to manage when you've already got tons of other things to do yeah how do you think the medium is being viewed you know at the at that level the publicists and the entertainment level and the news level like i mean it it seems like the credibility is just continuing to rise. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:46 I mean, there's a few different components, like the money that companies are throwing to produce new shows is going down a little bit. Yeah. But they're not done producing shows. And, you know, there's so many people that say everyone's got a podcast now. It seems saturated. OK, well, are books no longer coming out? Are you no longer making Instagram profiles or LinkedIn? I mean, it's just one more thing, but it's something that I think is way more valuable than a lot of the rest.

Starting point is 00:06:18 And really what they're saying no to is the commitment. And I just think that, you know, it used to be, if you were a published author, that was a really big deal. And then self-publishing became a little more, uh, viable. So there were more published authors. They still bragged about it. It didn't take away from their credibility. You keynote speak one time, you're still a keynote speaker. credibility. You keynote speak one time, you're still a keynote speaker. And so I think that being the host of a show is going to get that same level of respect at a certain point if it's not already there. Or being a frequent guest. I mean, that's the whole idea is I pitched myself to your team, but your team said yes. You're validating me to the audience yep and so um there's just a lot of factors there but it's

Starting point is 00:07:10 it's not going away in my opinion yeah i i don't think so either i'll give a staff and if you've listened to a few recent shows you've heard heard me say it uh 18 to 34 year olds listen and watch podcasts more than television now. Yep. Wrap your head around that. Yeah. So crazy. So, you know, and so when you do the math, you can kind of follow that down. What they're doing now is, you know, 18 year olds doing now.

Starting point is 00:07:42 They're going to continue to do. It's going to evolve. You know, like that genie isn't going back in the bottle. No. Like they're not going to, there might be new mediums that come out. And they might listen to different shows. Yes. But they're being raised and brought up in media around as podcasting being a top source of content, entertainment, education.

Starting point is 00:08:06 And so I think you'll with that in mind, you're only going to see that proliferate because those 18 to 34 year olds were coming. The parents, the fathers, the leaders of tomorrow raising the earlier generations behind them. And so I think you're going to see this as a medium. I think it might evolve. And I think we're seeing that transition from audio to video and the interplay. But as a whole, though, I feel like we're just on, I don't know, maybe approaching the top of the curve, but I still think we're rising up the bell curve. Well, and it combines a few different things. It takes the on-demand functionality of something like Spotify with the entertainment value of Howard Stern with the education of audio books. I started listening to podcasts because I drove a lot and I was like, I should be utilizing my time a little bit better.

Starting point is 00:09:01 I'm going to do audio books. Dude, I tried reading and listening to Thinking Grow Rich like six times. And it is such a boring read and listen, no matter how, I don't care how many people tell me it changed their lives and how impactful it is still boring. And I never finished it. But when I got to like a real estate podcast where someone in 60 minutes could teach me how they went from negative money in their bank account to certified millionaire or something. I'm like, cool, let's do it. Let's listen. And I can listen whenever I want. I can hear their backstory. I can hear their personality. hear their personality. Even if you're just listening, you can hear when someone's smiling or laughing or whatever. And it's a really good way of building trust, credibility, rapport, all of those things. And I think if you're a person of leadership, person in, you know,

Starting point is 00:10:00 a field where you need to be an authority, you're seen as authority, which is becoming just about everything. A brand, a company. I don't know a reason why you wouldn't be doing podcasting, at least on some level. Like, I think. Do a dozen of them. Yeah, that's where I think people get really hung up in their shorts and like in their mind of like the commitment because they think okay i have to do it forever i'm signing up forever and i'm signing up for four episodes a week for three years or something and they just completely get analysis paralysis you know

Starting point is 00:10:38 paralysis from analysis of how much they have to commit. Right. Do 10 episodes, series. 10. Commit to six months. Yeah. And the content and the repurposing and what you can learn from that experience and if done right has such compounding impact that I think people just get too caught up in thinking they have to bite the whole elephant at the same time.

Starting point is 00:11:08 Well, and consider like I'm not I'm not a marketer. I'm not like an SEO expert or anything like that. But when I have to look someone up and all I can find is all the great things they wrote about themselves on their website and their LinkedIn or whatever, it's not helpful. And so you don't even have to be a thought leader. Just be someone that's in a competitive space. You're another business consultant. You're an attorney, financial planner, real estate agent. If these people are dumping money into billboards to stand out when you could just show people your

Starting point is 00:11:43 personality and why you're actually passionate about what you do through audio and video. And if you're like me, I don't really want to be a content creator. So coming on your show where you're feeding me the conversation, you're producing it. I just get to use it at the end. Yeah. It's just win, win, win all around. it's just win, win, win all around. Yeah. What I don't understand is if you're being a person and everyone sort of cringes at the personal brand. Like I get it.

Starting point is 00:12:13 I understand. I cringe myself sometimes, you know, like, but let's call it what it is. The amplification of your authority. Yeah. This is really what we're talking about. Why you wouldn't, we have these mediums today. We're 10, 15 years ago with, you know, social networks sort of, you know, starting to get traction and other things like that. But podcasting, very nascent.

Starting point is 00:12:40 And the only way to get amplification would be, okay, I'm on the news every day. I'm on TV. I'm every day. I'm on TV. I'm a superstar. I'm a celebrity. We now have the ability to create our own news, create our own story, and to create an aura around ourselves as being a specialist or known for X. Right. And to not leverage what that can do is mind boggling to me. Yep.

Starting point is 00:13:08 Well, and so many people think, how am I going to get to be the biggest podcast in the world? How am I going to get a thousand listeners? If you're a service-based business, just local to your community, how many customers do you really need for your entire year to be booked out? You don't need a thousand, you need a few hundred. Being in music, I did concerts for 15 years. Do you know how many of them had over 250 people at them? 10%. So if, well, you've got a big brand, but if I were to tell people today, I am doing a conference in six months. Do you know how many tickets I'd be able to sell? Not 250. It would, it takes a lot of time. So when someone is like, man, my podcast only has 36 listeners this week,

Starting point is 00:14:01 I'm like, cool. You outperform my in-person real estate meetup that I've only ever, you know, I normally have 20 people at your, your outperforming most bands, live audience, uh, at your local venue, your local bands, whatever. I mean, it's, it's, it's hard when you're trying to keep up with the Joneses, but if you can have 50 of the right person listening to your podcast every week, super valuable. And to your point, try it for six months. And if you're really determining that it's not a good use of your time or resources, don't do it anymore. You can stop. You can rebrand, you can change the name, whatever you want. Don't do it anymore.

Starting point is 00:14:41 You can stop. You can rebrand. You can change the name. Whatever you want. I'd rather see people commit to, I'm going to do a 10-part series on X for Y than the whole pod fade of starting three episodes and then not making it. You know, like, plan out 10. You know, plan out 15. And then if it works, great.

Starting point is 00:15:04 But the whole, I don't know, fire aim ready. Yeah. That's how pretty much every business I've had has started. The whole, I don't know, fire aim ready. Yeah. That's how pretty much every business I've had has started. It's like, look, everything has to be mapped out. But like, I think that that's that's where people hit the wall is they haven't thought through exactly, you know, what they're trying to accomplish. You know, have a plan. Hope is not a strategy. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Yeah. Well, I launched a podcast last week called Questions with a Podcast Booking Agent and it wasn have a plan. Hope is not a strategy. Yeah, yeah. Well, I launched a podcast last week called Questions with a Podcast Booking Agent, and it wasn't a plan. I asked my LinkedIn community. I was just dying for content. I was like sick of trying to come up with posts every week. And I asked people, what do you want to learn from a podcast booking agent? I got like 10 people answering. I then decided I didn't want to type out all the responses. So I made videos. They're all under two minutes.

Starting point is 00:15:49 And I turned to my girlfriend, who's my podcast editor, because we also launch podcasts for people and run them. I turned to her and I'm like, we should just put this audio as a podcast too. And I don't, I'm not expecting it to like blow up, but it's out there now. It's good for the SEO. It's good for the content. We, we hit number 46 on how to, and now forever, I can say I'm a top 50 podcaster. If I

Starting point is 00:16:13 wanted to be like that, I'm not going to do that, but, uh, I have a marketer. It's, uh, yeah. And it was just like, you know, it was just fun. And we'll just keep putting it out. And if it gets listeners, great. But if not, like the content's made. I'm putting out YouTube shorts too. I'm not trying to grow YouTube, but the content is there. And I've met people that are like, yeah, I do a weekly webinar. I'm like, so why don't you rip the audio and put it as a podcast too?

Starting point is 00:16:43 You don't have to market it if you don't want, but just put it out there. Yeah. It doesn't have to market it if you don't want, but just put it out there. Yeah. It doesn't hurt. Yeah, exactly. Talk about the podcast booking game. Sure. You know, uh, obviously getting people on shows, getting guests for shows. So there's kind of a two way street there, but I don't know. What's the nuts and bolts of kind of what you do? Yeah. So there's kind of a two way street there, but I don't know, what's the nuts and bolts of kind of what you do? Yeah. So because I, um, kind of done a lot of things, I've always just been like intrigued on how people made money. And, you know, there's someone out there that's the number one ice chest producer for seven 11s on the East coast. And it's like super not sexy, but they're a millionaire.

Starting point is 00:17:25 I'm like, cool, I want to learn more about that. And so I think I've been able to bring that to when I'm developing topics for clients because when I have a client, I want to learn more about what they do and how they became successful. And so, you know, depending on the show, maybe the information is going to be surface level,

Starting point is 00:17:51 but I can prod them a little bit and ask the questions that I want answered because I believe that's probably what other people want to hear, too. And it's going to be more than I can talk about marketing. I can talk about sales. I can talk about entrepreneurship, whatever. It's got to be more in-depth than that. You have to be able to provide some value that the person hasn't heard. And that's not always reinventing the wheel. Sometimes it's repackaging it in a new way. Bob Proctor, Jim Rohn, Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar, a lot of them say the same things, but they say differently. They use different analogies that resonated with someone that

Starting point is 00:18:18 liked oranges instead of apples. And so because of that, I think most people can be on podcasts, but you still have to be able to figure out what's your unique value proposition. What's the story that's going to be sold if maybe that's more of the angle. Um, and so I kind of worked through people and figure out what that is. And then I was telling you before the show, like I work with Brandon Novak from Jackass and Viva La Bam. I love being able to put him on entrepreneurship shows because he wouldn't have never thought about it. They would have never thought to invite him and creates a really cool, unique experience for people. Yeah, that brings back a lot of memories.

Starting point is 00:18:58 I'm sure for a lot of. And he's got no shame. None at all. Yeah. Is what's the biggest impact you've seen maybe with whether expected or unexpected of having some of your clients like get on a podcast tour or like going and getting on shows? And maybe they weren't already a known name, but like had credibility or whatever. Like what's the impact that you've seen? The biggest like monetary benefit I've seen from one client is he went on a show and he's in oil and gas exploration. I put him on like kind of a, just an alternative investing podcast.

Starting point is 00:19:41 They were more real estate guys. And they said, we're not putting your interview out until you do a deal with us because we want to do a deal and so he had to put up like 15 the down payment for i think but they funded like the acquisition of like an eight million dollar uh oil and gas production deal and no one like he's just known in his circles, like no press release went out or anything like that. But he just he just got like his equity in an eight million dollar deal just by going on that podcast. And then he wasn't trying to solicit them. Yeah, it was just a show, you know. But, you know, other people have had big contributions

Starting point is 00:20:22 to like their charities. Some people get deals. Some people get partners. I mean it's one of those things that's hard to quantify until someone comes to you and says, I heard you on this show. Now I'm reaching out. But it's – there's tons – there's just tons of opportunity. I remember reading someone on like LinkedIn saying that she went on a show to talk about one business, but she did a different type of consulting and the host hired her for that other type of consulting, which turned into like 200 grand worth of work over the last two years. And

Starting point is 00:20:56 that wasn't even what the interview was about, you know? Yeah. It's like, there's a compounding effect from it that's, that's over time and you just never know who's listening or what what connections will be made. And it's like obvious. Obviously, if you've got a book coming out, there's some obvious things like if you're you've got a book release or you've got some kind of clear offer, new thing you're doing and you've got credibility in something and you're wanting to amplify that. Okay. It's a good part of the media mix to get on there. Right. But then there's just sort of this, I tell people like the amount, like I've been doing our show for six years and there's the things that you would think are obvious that have happened and like leads for the agency and sponsors and things like that. But then there's just the, the random phone call once a month or DM or whatever. That's like, Hey, we, we heard you on this. And they'll quote like a show I was on like four years ago. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:59 And it's like, I'm like, yeah, sometimes it's obvious or something. I don't even remember. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're like, you like you know i just i'm doing this and there could be an opportunity like the obscure investment or connective you just the connective tissue that it can bring in opportunities are just hard to even like put a number on well that's that's from a marketing side what's really cool is you run an ad budget on Instagram, Facebook. When it's done, it's done. Podcasts continue to grow. As long as the show stays active, it continues to grow.

Starting point is 00:22:33 And when that show gets a really invested listener, they run out of new episodes. They go back and listen to the old ones. That's right. And so there's tons of people that say, like, I get leads from something I did three years ago and I forgot about that show until someone brought it back up, you know? But it's also, how much money goes into a 30 second ad on the Superbowl? You know that number. Yeah. Five, 10 million. Yeah. We're going to be doing this. How long is this interview going to goes into a 30 second ad on the super bowl you know that number yeah five ten million yeah we're gonna be doing this how long is the interview gonna be 60 minutes yeah brands can't even pay for that if they wanted to no and and like you get it with your listeners every single week

Starting point is 00:23:16 exactly it's just it's just wild and i mean i i'm it's i know this isn't like a normal interview for the listeners but i know that like this is, we can nerd out about this because we both are in this space. And this is something that we know most people don't know anything about. No. And businesses need to be hearing it though. Yeah. And entrepreneurs and like,

Starting point is 00:23:37 whether you're, whether you, wherever you are on that curve, if you haven't gotten your heads around this, you need to. And maybe you don't want to start a podcast that you're not. That's fine. But just remember, if you get paid to do anything, you've got a skill set that the average person doesn't know anything about. And

Starting point is 00:23:58 that's valuable. You might not be able to go get on the biggest show talking about the most basic level of SEO, but you can go find a podcast that's only done 20 episodes in marketing or business, hasn't covered your skill set yet. Pitch yourself. They're going to say yes, because they've only, no one's banging down their door to get on their show yet. And you just got free content and SEO that the host paid for. yet and you just got free content and seo that the host paid for that's right because the distribution is out there and like you mentioned it's evergreen and it's where it'll last for like love it or hate it the stuff on the internet it lasts forever yeah and it's funny because i'll see you know i will do the seo stuff for my show in my name and things like that, because I tell people all the time, like, if you don't do personal influence amplification, I'm trying not to say personal brand. I'm trying really hard. But then you're allowing Google or someone else to tell your story for you. But then you're allowing Google or someone else to tell your story for you. Oh.

Starting point is 00:25:10 Because you're allowing when everyone's, Google's everybody now. Right. Everyone searches for you. Like if you're going to have a relationship with them, they're looking you up on social media. They're looking you up on Google. They're looking you up on LinkedIn, X, whatever it is. Depending on how that connection is being made, if it's business, if it's personal, whatever, they're looking you up. And when you don't commit to authority building, you're allowing Google to tell the story for you. Because if you Google my name,

Starting point is 00:25:36 I own the first three pages and there's a really popular lawyer in Canada whose name is Ryan Alford. There's now an African American pro golfer named Ryan Alford. Who's actually had some pretty good rounds lately. He started to creep up into there. Um, but I, the first three page. So it's,

Starting point is 00:25:56 I control the story. Not because there's anything bad. No, but, but I want to put out my best attributes and what I have to offer the world versus just Russian roulette. Hope it's good. Brandon Turner from Bigger Pockets is competing against a pro skateboarder named Brandon Turner.

Starting point is 00:26:15 Yeah. And so it's funny. Like when I had Brandon Novak on his show, Brandon Turner was like, I'm sorry, Brandon Novak was like, I'm going to be on Brandon Turner. That's like my best friend. Like what? He doesn't have a podcast. And then I had to, that's something that he was, you know, Brandon Turner from Bigger Pockets was competing with for a while. He had to build his brand so that he came up before the pro skateboarder. Yes. And so by going on shows and the distribution you get, cause even to this day, it's not the biggest podcast that I don't, I'm not going to do service to it because I don't remember the name.

Starting point is 00:26:46 But it's still on like, it's on the bottom, but it's on the first page. I went on it like five years ago. And to this day, it stays on. I don't know what he does. His show's not that big. But somehow he stays on my first page of results. Like I've been on some big shows and like they don't rank to where this one does. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:27:03 God does a great SEO, I guess. But it's funny. But it lasts and it's out there and it's evergreen. And you don't know the volume of impressions it's getting and the impact that it can have on people. And if nothing else, you know, I think in a way we all crave to leave our mark on the world and to share our talents. In a way, we all crave to leave our mark on the world and to share our talents. And there's no better way to do that than to share it on mediums that get shared and distributed. Well, I heard someone talk about that, too, was they like podcasting because it's like, you know, it could be part of their legacy.

Starting point is 00:27:48 I mean. Yeah. it's like they're they're like you know it could be part of their legacy i mean yeah and and you know you could be related to a famous author that died before you were born all you've got is the books they written they wrote which was not their raw authentic thoughts it was revisions and revisions and revisions and this is what i think is going to do the best. But like your great grandkids are going to be able to see hours of video of you if they want. And, you know, really get to know who you are. And for them, the important thing isn't going to be your insight on marketing

Starting point is 00:28:23 or sales or business, unless they become an entrepreneur themselves, but it's going to be the nuggets you put out there about how to be a good person, how to take care of your family. And they're like, Oh, I see you did this with my dad, you know? And, and that's, that's just, it's kind of a really undervalued under recognized thing that in 50 years everyone's going to see it yeah right now it's just this piece of medium to drive business or build your brand or whatever it might be exactly talking with spencer carpenter founder of outlier audio podcast booking extraordinaire

Starting point is 00:29:01 uh what who's the average person that comes to you these days, Spencer? Like what's that kind of profile of the person that comes to you and what they're looking for? Yeah, so I work, I have a wide variety of people. Like half my clientele is in the real estate space just because I've kind of become the guy there. But my clientele beyond that really varies. I mean, I mentioned, I work with Brandon Novak, but also James Wilkes from the UFC and the executive producer of Game Changers on Netflix. And then Cameron Harreld, who's the author of Vivid Vision and Avery Carl, who is, uh,

Starting point is 00:29:42 she built the number one EXP brokerage in the world. And it's also like a short-term rental, you know, guru, um, expert, not guru. Um, but then I have someone that's like never done a podcast and they're like, I need some SEO. I'm trying to build my brand. I'm trying to get some investors. I just need some content. I mean, I really do have a wide range of people that are different parts of their career. But, you know, the ideal is always, you know, who are the high performers I can work with. I've been really lucky in that because not many people do what I do.

Starting point is 00:30:18 I get to work with a lot of people I considered mentors a year before I even started this. So that's been cool. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm trying to think of big real estate people. I mean, Toriko Musa, you know, I had him on. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:31 He's an interesting guy. He's smart as hell, works hard. You've got Pace and Jamil. Yeah, Pace and Jamil. Pace is awesome. I work with a bunch of like the bigger pockets authors. Yeah. Like half a dozen of their authors.

Starting point is 00:30:44 Pace and Jamil are two really good guys. Oh yeah. Like some people in these, in the business and not Tork is too, but he's cause I was SoCal guy. And I know Pace is over there, all over there, but in California,

Starting point is 00:30:54 but Pace and, and Jamil had a little war down to earth. I don't know. Yeah. And the, but you still don't ever know who you're going to meet in this game. It's that compounding relationship stuff. You know, it's just like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, but like, you know,

Starting point is 00:31:13 but literally like it's, it's just crazy how it just sort of, you get in this industry and you start talking to people and then who you meet and who they know. And I don't know't know can just really go leaps and bounds pretty much every time i've had like an unsolicited call coming where like in in my calendar link it's like you know put your website or whatever yeah every time i've looked at their website and been like this is gonna be a waste it's just not gonna be a fit i found out they were inquiring about something different. Like, uh, I'm launching this new brand. I just, I, that's the website I have right now. So that's what I gave you, but I'm actually launching this other brand that is a fit almost every single time. Um, there have been people

Starting point is 00:31:57 that are like, they're, they gave me links to like their music or something. I'm like, I don't work with musicians because I don't want to take their money. And then I found out she's actually like a systems coach and that's what she's launching soon. And so like, dude, you just don't know. Who's,

Starting point is 00:32:15 uh, who's maybe like one of the biggest names that you mentioned, some of your clients and stuff like that. But like, as far as booking or whatever, you can do some name dropping here if you want to. Yeah. Like, you know, and I don't want you to talk shit about anybody,

Starting point is 00:32:31 but like, is there anybody that like surprised, like big names that surprised you for the good or the bad? So, cool shows. I mean, I was in Mark Manson's studio last month with a client and like his writing was really important for me just in developing like emotional intelligence and like, you know, just, just in my early twenties. So that, that's like been the coolest for sure. Um, in terms of like investing podcasts, other than Ramsey, who mainly just in interviews his friends, from what I've been told,

Starting point is 00:33:03 um, I've had people on the top four investing podcasts in the U S and, um, that's all been cool. But most of the people I'd say that are at that level, they are who they are. It's the person that invested, that's like still climbing that you get there. And you're like, this isn't who you are. And that's OK. Like you're doing what you need to do. But I'm like, you just had two videographers set up for when my client walked in for you to say hi. So you have B roll. And it's just it's kind of weird, you know, and I don't blame anybody.

Starting point is 00:33:44 It's just it's just, it's kind of weird, you know, and I don't blame anybody. It's just, it's just like weird. Um, but you know, they're still cool people. They're successful for a reason, you know, uh, for better or worse, uh, either they're a good guy or they're just out for themselves. I don't know. But, um, what's the trick to getting booked on shows? Not the trick, but like what, what's some value for people, you know, that might be, hey, they want to hire Outlier Audio at some point, but they're on the, you know, they're doing it for themselves now. Unique value proposition, a story and follow up.

Starting point is 00:34:22 Half of my interviews are booked because I followed up. a story and follow up. Half of my interviews are booked because I followed up. And we were talking about this before we started. Like you, you don't know what's going on on the other end. The longest it took me to get someone like I, these two clients, they really wanted to be on like Pat Flynn's podcast.

Starting point is 00:34:42 They had learned from his courses. It was really important to them. from the time i got the first response from his assistant to the time it was on the calendar 365 days to the day and then it didn't happen for another three months and then didn't come out for another three months after that so a year and a follow-up it was like 98 emails at the end and it wasn't it was just like didn't line up with like his schedule what they were doing at the time um but it came back to they had a good value proposition you know again you're not always reinventing the wheel but you're putting your spin on it um and then a story like if

Starting point is 00:35:24 maybe you don't have anything that's like super unique in what you do in your business, but your story lends to why you're passionate about it. And so, especially now, I think, um, with things like nine 11 or the financial crisis or COVID or any of these things, like there have been a lot of events in the last 25 years that could really influence someone's life and put passion behind what they do now. And being able to put that into words to to in a in a skillful way without like writing a novel is kind of a skillset in itself. You know, when I pitch people, my first line is always, I'm reaching out about so-and-so to be on your show to discuss. And I do the three leading topics because they, I'm assuming they don't know who my person is, but if they like those three topics, no matter how long or short that bio is, they're going to keep reading if it's a fit. Or I just save them a bunch of time and they can move on.

Starting point is 00:36:33 But, you know, I normally just – I try and condense it to like two paragraphs. Yeah. Here's a list of four to six topics. It can't be I can talk about sales. It's like, what is your system? What is your proprietary system? Or what is your, not gimmick, but like, what is it you do that's special? You kind of develop topics around that.

Starting point is 00:36:58 And, oh yeah, you have to include links to yourself. A lot of people don't do that. The keyword, I'm going to go back to where, where you started the follow-up. Follow-up. I mean, people, you nailed it when you said it earlier, you don't ever really know what's happening on the other side and you can take it personal or you can, you know, not be thorough or just assume that, oh, I checked the box. I asked and it didn't happen. Or I did ask once and did one follow-up and it didn't happen. It's the follow-up. It's the, it's the, and hitting him at the right time. If you didn't hit at the right

Starting point is 00:37:36 time, then try three months. Like. If you're dealing with entrepreneurs, don't hit them up on Fridays. I don't send emails on Fridays unless it's already a conversation I'm having. But I also know entrepreneurs, whether or not they like that I do this, on Sunday night when they're watching House of Dragon, they've got their laptop on their lap. So I send emails on Sundays from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. And just, you don't know if they were sick if they're on vacation they're between

Starting point is 00:38:09 assistants the assistant the first time around was inept and didn't see how special you are like they some assistants look at every submission others when you're not looking are like there's 36 of these fuckers i'm not doing this yeah i'm gonna look at five i'm gonna book the next five interviews and i'll deal with the rest of this later you just have no idea what is going on on the other end i'll you know real world example like we, we get, I don't want to sound like exaggerating. At least a hundred and sometimes over 200 requests a month for our, for this show. Guys, I just want you to know, he's not making that up. When your show is as successful as his, that's literally what you're going up against. up against. And so, and right now we're going through some growing pains and adding staff and replacing some staff and just adding different talent sets. And so it's been that period. And a

Starting point is 00:39:16 lot of times it's me and one other person. And usually it would have been three or four people like vetting that. And it's been like me and one and half a person for like a couple of weeks. And we're not responding to this as fast or as often as we did. And like, cause it's just the season or things that are going on. Whereas if you'd happened to sent the request four months ago, still would have been up against it, but probably getting really timely responses and thoughtful you know yes no maybes you know maybe next year like whatever it might be depending on what the request is but again you just don't ever know what's happening at the end so you have to just be human and thoughtful and and resourceful well we can't say this about the people that have like just conversational,

Starting point is 00:40:07 funny pod. I mean, well, comedians, they've got comedian stuff to do, but if you're talking to someone on a business, investing, entrepreneurship,

Starting point is 00:40:16 marketing, sales show, they're entrepreneurs. They've got other stuff going on. Yes. I mean, the, the podcast is a business or a hobby amongst you've got five

Starting point is 00:40:31 businesses yeah i've got three and there are plenty of other people that it's like maybe they've only got two but one of them really requires 90 of of that. You just don't know anything like, and so follow up is important. And so I like, I do one follow up like eight days later and another one like 10 days later, because not many people are sick for more than three weeks. Not many people are on vacation for more than three weeks. I've hit people up when they were on a month long honeymoon and I had no idea. Like, but that's how i do it i figure i'm not gonna do a fourth email they'll if they they if if they care about who it is i have

Starting point is 00:41:12 they will come back to it i've literally had people say hey sorry i just saw this uh you know it's not a fit this time around that was an email that came a year later and it was like it was an assistant i'm like you're going back over emails from a year later. And it was like, it was an assistant. I'm like, you're going back over emails from a year ago? You're at least appreciative of the thoughtfulness, right? Yes, I'm like, you found this in spam or whatever, and you actually responded? That's crazy.

Starting point is 00:41:36 And I have done the four months later, found the email and gone, This is a perfect fit. Why did we, why did we say yes? Well, and that's, that's the other thing. Your assistant,

Starting point is 00:41:49 like whoever they might be, they might understand your industry perfectly, or they might not understand it at all and see the parallel. Or maybe they only understand you. They know what you're right for. But they don't, you know, there's just gonna be something they don't know about you

Starting point is 00:42:08 and why you want to have a guy that talks about stem cells on your show. I don't know. What do you think back to the value of, you know, like, okay, we gave people the tips on kind of the outreach format, the follow-up being uber important.

Starting point is 00:42:26 What's something that maybe people sweep under the rug? Ah, it's not that important. I'm not going to update it. Like social profiles, like personal website. What's the stuff that really matters or doesn't matter, you know, like in your experience so one like five character detail that has made a big difference at least for some people is when i list out like at the bottom of the email i put their website their instagram their other

Starting point is 00:42:59 things that they're active in yeah if they have over a thousand on any i put that in parentheses 2.7 followers 15 000 followers whatever and there have been some like producers that are like that have come to me and said i really appreciate you do this because we're now at a part a point in our journey where we have to consider their following and that's not great, especially, I mean, I've also had people say, Hey, your guy doesn't have 40,000 on one profile. I'm like, yeah, but he's got a nine figure real estate portfolio. If you want him to go, I've said to someone, I will have him go buy another 20,000. If that's what you want, like your other guests, or you can have him on, on merit because he's got a nine-figure real estate portfolio

Starting point is 00:43:47 and you're a real estate show. Oh, shit. That's the real goods right there. I mean, it's like, give me a break. I don't do that that often. That was one time where I was like, this is stupid. I mean, you can have him buy the extra if that's what we're talking about.

Starting point is 00:43:59 The goods, it's either there or it's not there. Yeah, yeah. Like, you're really doing your homework. Like you can figure this out. Like, okay. They play in the, the vanity game here.

Starting point is 00:44:12 We play in the real game. Yeah. You know, and I get why certain shows for certain guests and certain things that whether it's real vanity, fake, whatever it, it, the optics maybe matter, but that's not every show. No, no, it's definitely not. And there,

Starting point is 00:44:31 there's only a few that do it that way. Um, the other thing, this is just so small, but it's like, this is what I do for a living. So I think about it a lot. If I have someone who has someone else on their team team that's already been pitching or is in marketing or something, I'll go back and forth with like the draft of the pitch and they'll add things like my, my, my outreaches, Ryan, I'm reaching out about Spencer Carpenter being on a show to discuss this. They'll add things like we're reaching out about the potential possibility of a collaboration between your two brands. I'm like, dude, it's not it's not helpful.

Starting point is 00:45:12 Overcomplicated. And it's and had that exact thing last week. It's so funny you bring that up. And if you are really if you truly feel you're a nobody and that you are just asking your idol if you can be on show. Fine. But I don't approach podcast hosts like i'm asking for a favor i like my clients are there to bring value and your show needs valuable guests my guest needs valuable shows like there's a there's a cooperation here and um don't over

Starting point is 00:45:49 complicate it don't come off rude either don't like say like you should be thankful to have us on the show but and maybe this is just a luxury i have because i'm a representative and not an individual reaching out on my behalf but i no matter the size of the show, I look at it like we're peers. You might decide otherwise you might decide my person's not a fit, but I'm reaching out because I believe they are, or I'm hoping they are. Yeah. And I just think that that's like, it's, it's a certain, I mean, it's kind of a confidence thing but you know like at the end of the day this is a give and take and that's okay i'll give an insider tip here

Starting point is 00:46:35 value baby spencer we're all about value today talking to spencer carpenter he is the founder of outlier audio so tip here if you're wanting to go on a show or get, or if you're wanting to get a big guest. So the biggest guest I've had on this show. Personal DM. What's up, man? Love this and this about you. Something that I really admire about them.

Starting point is 00:47:01 That's heartfelt, like not generic, like something specific. Love the latest movie you were in, or whatever. Something specific where I'm being genuine. Hey, I host a show. It's pretty fucking popular. That's just what I say. I don't say

Starting point is 00:47:21 number one. I just say it's pretty fucking popular. Love to have you on. Yeah. 80% conversion rate. Like, just that. Yep. Like, with big name guests. Like, just being human.

Starting point is 00:47:34 Yep. And look, I do have a, I have the credibility and, you know, a non-paid for verified account. There's things that go working in my favor that they can check some mental boxes that I'm not Joe Schmo. But at the same time, I'm just being human. You know, just being direct, you know, like two guys or, you know, two professionals, whatever it is, guy to girl, girl to guy, whatever it is.

Starting point is 00:47:58 But I don't know. I think there's just that. Sometimes we overcomplicate things or like over to your point, complicate it or professionalize it versus just humanizing it. Yep. Well, I mean, and that's what this medium is. It's just being that's the whole thing that's great about it also just so most people know

Starting point is 00:48:26 this isn't over commercialized or monetized and like most of the time you're not like paying to be on shows you're just going on because you've got value and they need someone um yeah and there are shows to do that yeah they're like. And for the record, I haven't paid Spencer as Spencer hasn't paid us. I didn't give him the check yet. No, I'm just kidding. No, no. It's like, but Spencer has value to add. Our audience needs value. And we like promoting podcasting and the medium because we know it's the future of media. But, but what the point there is that like when Matthew McConaughey was doing that tour of all these podcasts people weren't like paying him for that you know no he wanted to go out there and promote his book and um i mean i wouldn't be surprised if

Starting point is 00:49:16 mark cuban has charged people to be on shows no i'm not i'm not saying he has i'm just i wouldn't be surprised i've've heard that even... I remember Victory the podcast, the Entourage podcast, when they had Charlie Sheen on. They said, yeah, we split ad revenue. So it was like, he's getting as much as we're getting out of the show.

Starting point is 00:49:38 And that's like... I've got no problem with that. That's equal. It is. And we talked about it. Pat McAfee came out and said, it's public knowledge now. He pays Nick Saban to come on every week. He paid Aaron Rodgers to come on every week. Yep. And like millions of dollars.

Starting point is 00:49:57 Like, you know, like yearly, like two or three million. I think Aaron Rodgers does weekly. I don't know if he does anymore, but was. But that netted, Pat understood the game. Like for sports, Aaron wasn't doing interviews with anyone anymore. And it pretty much helped him get the $85 million ESPN deal licensing his show. Yep. That was pretty good ROI.

Starting point is 00:50:19 85 mil for a three mil year for Aaron. Math works out. But, but yeah. And, and, but back to the original point is like being human is the important part. Like when I had a client on Mark Manson's podcast, he, he, I mean, he might've said yes either way, but I let him know, like, you've been a huge influence on me and this is how I can bring value to you is if you decide that I have a guest that's that is helpful for your show, that's how I can contribute to you. And I'd love to be able to do that. And, you know, especially if you're going after a big podcast or big guests, that's where you can be valuable. And maybe it can be as simple as your book changed my life.

Starting point is 00:51:06 But if you can really elaborate on a little bit, personalize it. Yeah, it goes a long way. And so but that's what is cool about this medium is. You you can just kind of reach out. And again, that's also what brought me to this, especially if you're in the entrepreneurship or business space. There's no gatekeeper at William Morris, CAA, UTA

Starting point is 00:51:31 for most of these people. There might be an assistant. You gotta get through the assistant. But I even think that like, if you make it heartfelt and the assistant normally would ignore it, they might send it to their boss or just like, you know, because let's assume the assistant cares about the person they're working for and they want to make their day. Hey, this guy might not be a fit, but he wrote you a handwritten letter that he mailed here about being on this podcast. I don't know. Do you want to look at it?

Starting point is 00:52:06 It's it can it can be worth the effort for sure. Or a DM, you know? Yeah, exactly. Is, you know, we're at this intersection point with audio and video with podcasting. Do you have a perspective on the balance of the mediums, the, the talk, you know, you've obviously we're two talking heads here. We have multiple cameras in the room and it is what it is. Um, but I do think, and where we're pushing is towards this YouTube space, which is huge for podcast growth now, uh, for podcast growth now and discoverability and all that sort of thing. What's your perspective on the medium, the video medium, you know, where it might go? Like, do you think and toil or think about these things? Yeah, it's, it's it's like, here's, here's like why I liked podcasts. I could just listen to audio whenever I wanted doing lawn work or whatever, lifting, whatever it might be. But once my favorite podcast

Starting point is 00:53:12 added the video, now when I wash dishes in the morning for 15 minutes, I'll stop where I was at in the audio, put my phone up in front of my face while doing dishes and watch the video part. When Lex Friedman had Matthew Cox on his show, Matthew Cox was like the number one on the Marshall's list or FBI or something like that on the run for a few years. It was a six hour interview and three hours into it, I was done doing all the work I wanted, but I still wanted to listen. So I went into the living room and sat down on the couch and pulled it up and watched the rest of it. And I thought it was crazy when Gary Vee said more people are going to start watching video podcasts on their TV, but they are maybe not prime time, but it's, it's definitely happening.

Starting point is 00:54:10 And I have clients that, um, come to me and they're, they only want to do in-person video podcast. And that's, that's for a variety of reasons. Like some people are just like, I can't connect with someone over zoom. I just, I can't do it very well. Other people are like, I'd rather have the high quality video content and it's worth me flying and paying for the lodging and stuff to get that video rather than paying a videographer to come into my office. Yeah. But from the entertainment standpoint, um, even if it's not for a long form conversation sitting down on the couch, what does better on Instagram reels? What does better on Tik TOK?

Starting point is 00:54:50 What does better on YouTube shorts? Good quality video, not split screen zoom where one person had a really good camera and the other person's connection kind of sucked. I mean, look, let me, let me be clear, especially if you're not doing podcasts yet, it's all worth it. Do it all. But to answer your question about the progression, the in-person video is definitely the trend. And if you can afford to do it, you should, but this is also an investment, you yeah not everybody can and maybe you got to build your way up there and but this is how you're going to get the this is how you're going to get the attention of someone those big names yeah and whether you're a guest or a host part of

Starting point is 00:55:36 the benefit of podcasts is the access so we were talking before like if you could have Oprah on the show, great. But even though it would be way more convenient for her to do Zoom, if she was in South Carolina speaking at Clemson or something like that, what do you think is going to be more attractive to her? Stopping by and fitting in her schedule? Or trying to get her to do it when she's at home in her life routine? We want her right there in that chair, baby. Exactly. We're coming for you in that chair, baby. Exactly. We're coming for you, Oprah.

Starting point is 00:56:07 I'm telling you. She's on the short list. But it's so true. And I think, crawl, walk, run. I mean, you can, it doesn't have to be all at once. Like if you're starting a podcast, if you're going on podcasts, like all those things. Like if you're starting a podcast, you're going on podcasts, like all those things. But the in-person, I mean, there's a reason, you know, we've transformed, you know, once you get to a certain level, it's like we're either going to embrace this growth and take it to the next level and maximize the leverage that we're creating. And the relationships you build in person and just getting to know someone and,

Starting point is 00:56:46 and absolutely quality. I mean, like this is going to look gorgeous. Like it's 4k. Like we've shot a few episodes in here and like Saugers knows what he's doing. Yeah. Our talented producer and you know, 4k, it's a different vibe. Well, and I mean,

Starting point is 00:57:08 the, the in-person is cool. Like there's this awesome studio in Austin called, I think it's called pouch six or something, but modern wisdom is filmed out of there and a few others. And I, I watched their, the studios real of like who comes in.

Starting point is 00:57:21 I think in the first month I followed them, they had Tim Ferriss, Gary Vee, Mark Manson. And if you just like a few, I'm like, all of these people are going to this studio. I'm trying to open a studio like close, closer to in Philly where I'm out of that's close to the airport so that when someone important flies in, they can easily come in for an interview and fly out or, or that's what they're coming for. It's still convenient for them. Um, going with a client to do an interview, the interview that he had before was Cody Sanchez. And I said, I said to my client, I'm like, I want to get there 15 minutes early, just in the event that you're like, she's still there. And you know, she does, I'm sure she doesn't remember who I am. Like we didn't, I just said, she's awesome.

Starting point is 00:58:05 That's all I did. I just let her know she's awesome. Yeah. Um, but it was like, that was added value to the trip. You know? Yep.

Starting point is 00:58:14 Absolutely. As it closed out here, talking with Spencer Carpenter, founder of outlier audio Spencer. I mean, where's it all headed, man? What's, uh, what's the next couple of years for Outlier look like?

Starting point is 00:58:28 Where are we wanting to take this thing? Dude, I just want more people that I can get podcasts to make them happy. You know, I explained to you, my job has always been, all of my jobs have been supporting talented people. And when I left music, I was never going to book someone, Madison Square Garden, Coachella, anything like that. But like here, I can get you on a top podcast that moves the needle for you.

Starting point is 00:58:59 It's with someone that you really look up to, someone that's going to add credibility to. I can add value in that way and so I just like continuing to support talented people you know and um it's not always business some people just have really good non-profits they are out there doing good in the world and I've never had any grand idea that I was going to change the world, but I can help people that are. And so that's what, that's what I look at like this business is, is I'm helping people that either change the world or put information out there that can help

Starting point is 00:59:35 change people's lives. I think you're really genuine, man. Thank you. I think that's going to come across. Appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you having me. This is awesome. Where can everybody find you? Yeah, so website's just outlieraudio.com. On Instagram, I'm just Spencer Carpenter. LinkedIn is my name as well. So I'm pretty active on Instagram and LinkedIn. Sweet. You know where to find him.

Starting point is 01:00:00 We'll have him in the show notes, Outlier Audio. Spencer Carpenter, he's a good dude. And if you want to get out there on the shows, you know who to call. Hey guys, you know where to find me. Ryanisright.com. You'll find all the highlight clips from today, the show notes and the YouTube video. You got to see this gorgeous, gorgeous studio. Saw your setup. We'll see you next time on Right About Now. This has been Right About Now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. Visit RyanIsRight.com for full audio and video versions of the show or to inquire about sponsorship opportunities. Thanks for listening.

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