Right About Now with Ryan Alford - You Might Also Like: How To Date

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Introducing Am I ready to date? from How To Date.Follow the show: How To Date Elizabeth and Mel look at one of the most important yet daunting questions: “Am I ready to date?” Whether you’re returning to the dating world after divorce, heartbreak, loss or simply wondering if it’s the right time to put yourself out there, this episode explores what it really means to be ‘date ready’. After you’ve listened, you can get all the resources and worksheets discussed at www.thepodclass.co.uk Mel and Elizabeth are on a mission to revolutionise the world of dating! We want to make it a safe, fun and rewarding experience for everyone. If you’d like to join us, we’ve put together our very own How To Date Good Dating Pledge, consisting of 10 simple ‘Dating Commandments’. Have a look and sign up for free now at www.thepodclass.co.uk Let’s make dating better - for all of us! A Daylight and Sony Music Entertainment Production. _______________________________________________________________________ Morrisons terms & conditions Dine in -  Majority of stores and online. Excludes Morrisons Daily. More card/app required. Without More Card £17. Ends 15/02. Online varies. Please drink responsibly. Buy 6 - Majority of stores. Excludes Scotland and Morrisons Daily. More Card/App required. Ends 16/02. Selected 75cl bottles. Max 36 bottles in store. Online excludes Champagne, max 12. Please drink responsibly. Flowers - Available in the majority of stores. Prices may vary online and at Morrisons Daily. More Card/App required, 16+. Without More card £5. Ends 14/02. More Card T&C’s: https://www.morrisons.com/more/terms-and-conditions/ General T&C’s https://groceries.morrisons.com/content/terms-and-conditions?srsltid=AfmBOor2xSfFNVtu22I9z5plcQkO6kId8jZ3NSdAF4X4Mt8JQkhO_ylQ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices DISCLAIMER: Please note, this is an independent podcast episode not affiliated with, endorsed by, or produced in conjunction with the host podcast feed or any of its media entities. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the creators and guests. For any concerns, please reach out to [e-mail].

Oh hello strangers, I'm Alice Fraser, your guide to the galaxy's goblins, dungeons and dystopias we'll be hurling ourselves into in a weekly hero's journey through Realms Unknown into the dark but sensual heart of all our favourite speculative fictions. We'll navigate the wild realms created by brilliant authors, filmmakers, game designers and more. New episodes drop every week on your podcast app or on YouTube. Do not resist the call to adventure, Chosen One. Join me for Realms Unknown. How to Date is brought to you by Morrisons. Welcome to How to Date, the pod class that

teaches you what you need to know about navigating modern romance. I'm podcaster and author Elizabeth Day. And I'm podcaster and author Elizabeth Day. And I'm Mel Schilling, relationship coach. And every week, we aim to give you the skills you need to show up as yourself on the apps and in real life. From how to survive heartbreak, to building confidence and loving yourself first. From managing clear communication

to how to handle rejection. From ghosting to bread crumming, micro cheating to love bombing. And why sometimes the most important person you can date is yourself. Love that. Join us for frank expert advice, hilarious anecdotes, brilliant guests,

and fail safe practical exercises that will leave you feeling empowered to make the changes you need to meet the person that is worthy of you. Because both Mel and I met our husbands online, didn't we? We did! So we do know what we're talking about. At least we hope we do.

Right. Shall we get on with it then? Let's explore How To Date. Mel! I'm so excited! Nailed it! We are here in the How to Date studio. This has been a long time coming hasn't it? Absolutely. And I think from the moment we realized that we both met our husbands online, that was a moment for us. It was a moment. So many of you listeners will know Mel from Married at First Sight, which is how I first got to know you. I always think that you give the most expert, insightful comments to the contestants on that show. And then I became low-key obsessed with you and got you on my podcast, How to Fail.

Which I love. And you're right, we bonded over the fact that we did meet our husbands online slightly later in life. I mean, we're in the prime of life now, don't get me wrong. We're heading toward the prime perhaps. And I was really passionate about imparting some of what we learned to listeners, who I know so many of you are out there right now, navigating the wilderness of dating. And it's a really tough spot to be in. we both have first-hand experience of that. So how old were you Mel when you met your husband? 39.

Okay. Almost 40. So I spent my entire 30s single and dating and not very well. Made all the mistakes. So you've not only got the professional expertise but you also have the lived experience. I have the mistakes. So you've not only got the professional expertise, but you also have the lived experience. I have the scars. And like you, I met my husband when I was 39, post divorce, the dating landscape had changed massively in the time that I'd been married. I'd never even been on a real date, I don't think,

let alone been on an app. So the whole thing had gone through this transformation and I had to learn really quickly. So I suppose we want to start by saying there is hope out there, isn't there? Yes, at any age, you know, there seems to be this sense of doom I think that people face when they come out of a long marriage or relationship or they're suddenly widowed. This idea of how on earth am I going to get back out there? It can seem so overwhelming, not

just the technology, but all of the new rules and roles that have emerged in the dating space. But we are here to tell you, lovely listeners, that it doesn't have to be daunting. It can be a lot of fun and you can do it in a really empowered and conscious way. Yes, I love that. New rules, new apps, and new vocabulary. Oh, and we're still learning. Bread crumming? Seriously? Caspering? I know. But today we have a specific focus and it's an important question. And it's a question

about how we know we are ready to date. And in order to tackle this question, we are going to divide this episode up into three. We are going to talk about the when, we're going to talk about the why, necessary questions to ask yourself, and we're going to talk about the what, what to do to ensure that you're ready to date. But let's start with the when, Mel. So you mentioned that coming out of a divorce or a long-term relationship, and I think very often there's so much processing that you have to do as an individual on an emotional level before you feel ready to be equipped to do anything, let alone date. What would be some guidance that you would give

someone going through that? I do hear this one a lot because quite often well-meaning friends will say things like get back on the horse, you know, get back out there, all you need is, you know, a rebound fling and you'll be fine. But that's not always the case. And I think a really sensible thing to do once you find yourself suddenly single is to invest in yourself. To date yourself, really, is your first step. And part of that, of course, is processing the hurt and the pain and everything that went on in that previous relationship so that nothing's left unexamined. I think that's really important. But then there are some really important questions, I think,

you need to ask yourself about your date readiness, which is a thing. Let's call it what it is. It's date readiness. That's what we're talking about here. And it happens on a number of levels in terms of the way you're thinking about dating and about yourself and about partners, the way you feel about it and the things that you're actually doing or feeling ready to do. Now you mentioned the rebounds there. And one of the things I was wondering is whether a rebound, it gets a lot of negative press, but whether sometimes it can be quite a good thing.

So is a rebound always a bad idea? Not necessarily. And I think it's really important to have your dating goals clear when you're stepping into new experiences. So for example, if you've come out of that long term relationship, you might say, okay, for the short term, let's say for the next 12 months, I'm going to date in the most fun and frivolous way. I am not going to be looking for the one, I'm going to be looking for lots of ones, situationships, you know, lots of different experiences to sort of have a tasting plate of dates so that I can get a little bit of a taste.

Date tapas. Yeah, exactly. We're going to do it the Spanish way. We'll have some date tapas and see what we like, what we don't like and try things on for size. I think what's important there is there isn't confusion between what might be a lighthearted encounter, getting it confused with the next big relationship. Because I think some people make the mistake of the first relationship experience having to be the one, having to be the next big thing. And it really doesn't. You can get so much out of a lighter relationship experience where you can learn so much about yourself.

What about though, if you are a woman of a certain age, as we both were, and there's the issue of children and biological clock and all of that stuff. Because I was very aware of that and I felt, well, I need to be ready to date now because I need to find someone in order to lock them in so that I can then have the family that I always thought I would have because time is running out. The pressure. There was so much pressure and as regular listeners of How to Fail will know, that story had a different ending for me from the one that I anticipated and it's one that I am

fully at peace with now and that has so much fulfillment in it. But at the time, I was very aware of that time pressure. So how can we separate those two things? How do we know what is us and what is social conditioning? LW It's so tricky, isn't it? Because we have this biological imperative, and it's not something that we can fight. And you know, when I was starting my dating coaching practice, this is where I specialised was with women in their late thirties to early forties who were having this exact experience because I found it so interesting because even though I was 39 when I met my partner, I didn't have the ticking clock. So I became fascinated by it. And what I started to see in my clients was this incredible desperation, this urgency

to basically, as soon as the music stops, grab the first person who's available. And it doesn't obviously always work because it's often very reactive response to someone who happens to show interest in you rather than making that really conscious strategic choice about a partner. So I think when you are in that position where your biology is telling you one thing and perhaps your brain is telling you something else, you need to be able to separate those out. But at the same time, deal with the reality. And part of that, I believe, is about being incredibly honest and upfront with potential partners. Not necessarily just sexual partners.

If you just want to have fun, that's great. They don't need to know your business. But if you are feeling like you're ready to meet your next partner, don't shy away from that conversation because it's your most important values based decision. I totally agree. And I think that there is a lot of rubbish spoken about when is appropriate to bring certain subjects up. And actually I felt when I was going through the dating process that that veered perilously close to playing games. Yes. And that actually it meant that I wasn't showing up as my authentic self because this was something that was really important to me. And if someone was going to be scared off by the

thing that was most important to me, then they weren't the person for me. Exactly. And that's the most important point here. You know, you probably heard people say things like, oh, don't be honest about that. You'll scare the men away. Well, guess what? Scare the men away because those are not the men you want to date. Yeah. And scare the women away too, if they're not the right people. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I think there's a fear that, you know, we often have going into dating that if I show up as my real authentic raw self, I might put someone off. That's okay because that's part of the process of screening people

out. You're not just screening people in, you screen them out as well. And I think when you arrive at that realization, it's actually very empowering, because you realize that you're going on these dates to assess them, it's not just them assessing you. Sometimes I think the cleverest way of understanding if you're ready is to retrofit it. What are some things that show that you're not ready to date? Okay, okay, great question. And again, I hear this one a lot, because so often I meet people who are in have delved into the dating process, and they weren't ready.

And they're having disaster after disaster, Maybe they keep dating the same person in different clothing, or maybe they're constantly going after commitment phobics and they can't figure out why. So retrofitting, going back a little bit and saying, okay, imagine you're about to start dating now, here are some questions to ask yourself. I mean, one of them, I think, before we even enter into date readiness is,

have you resolved your previous relationship? Because, you know, of course, going into the next relationship with all that baggage, it's never gonna go away, of course, that is part of who you are. And that's actually quite beautiful, you know, because you've got lessons that you've taken from previous relationships that you're bringing in.

But I'm talking about the rawness of the emotion. Can you talk about your previous relationship without being emotional? Do you tear up every time you mention his or her name? Or is there a little bit of emotional separation there where you can sort of say, well, that was a fully contained experience with a start, a middle and an end, and I'm now past that. Are you there yet? And if you are, that's a good sign that you can start thinking about date readiness. I think that's so wise. And I think definitely one of the things that I struggled with was I still had a feeling of anger over past relationships

that had gone awry in some way and a feeling of being really let down and a feeling of being emotionally cheated, if not physically cheated on that sense that someone had promised me something, but actually turned out not to be capable of delivering that. And I think taking that forwards into a new relationship can be incredibly damaging. And actually what that does is it narrows the opportunity for that person to show up as themselves because you're already overlapping who they really are with fears from your past that someone is going to be annoyed with you because you've left a teaspoon on the counter. Those things can actually be very triggering, can't they?

Yeah. And on that behavioural level, you can be really driven by those unconscious feelings toward your previous partner and it might come across as for example, punishing your new partner when they haven't actually done anything wrong. You know, resentment can actually build up as you say you're anticipating things that they might do. They probably won't. Yes. But it can be quite, it can become quite toxic. We get a lot of questions on how to date about how to process heartbreak in order to be ready. Do you have any top tips, Mel? Firstly, don't do it alone.

You know, I think there is a tendency to think stiff upper lip, especially us Brits, right? The royal way there. I should be able to muddle my way through this and get on with it on my own, but you certainly don't have to do it on your own. And I think, you know, everyone my way through this and get on with it on my own, but you certainly don't have to do it on your own. And I think, you know, everyone in your life has had some experience with heartbreak, whether it's through actual intimate relationships or family or even, you know, workplace breakups,

best friend breakups. You know, we've all had experience with that. So being able to join together with other people, like-minded people, and have a bit of a collective cry. The debrief, the unpacking together, the validation and normalisation that you get from sharing your experience is so, so important. Firstly, to not feel alone, but also to feel like you're not going a little bit mad, that all the feelings you're having are actually quite normal. But I think it's probably worth noting here too, that if, you know, there is more going on for you than just a little bit of

heartbreak, you know, not all relationships are created equal and of course, not all people's level of resilience and capacity to bounce back is equal. If you are in a position where you're struggling, where, you know, you really feel like you cannot stop thinking about this relationship. You are constantly ruminating on it. You're feeling down. You're unable to perhaps focus on your work or other things. Those are signs that you probably need to speak to a psychologist. So let's just put that out there as something that's really important to note here. So let's just put that out there as something that's really important to note here. But I guess within that kind of normal range of heartbreak, definitely debriefing with friends.

I think there's some really fun rituals that you can do as a way of letting go. Something that I know some people do is write down a thank you letter to their ex thanking them for all the lessons. You know, it can be quite lighthearted, it might be quite heavy in certain parts, but a big thank you and then a thanks but no thanks at the end and then burn it or screw it up and put it in the bin. You know, those sorts of rituals can be quite symbolic and can actually cut beneath, you know, some of the conscious thinking and actually go a little bit deeper, which can be quite symbolic and can actually cut beneath, you know, some of the conscious thinking and actually go a little bit deeper, which can be a really nice way to kind of move through some of that. Yes. And if you wrote that letter whilst listening to Ariana Grande's Thank You Next, that song

got me through a lot of breakups, I tell you. I love it. What about some of the negative reasons that we feel compelled to date? So dating from a place of fear, fear of being left behind, fear that all of your contemporaries are finding their match, settling down. Can fear be a good thing ever? Look, it often leads to an anxious attachment style, you know, and I know we're going to talk about that more on this podcast. Can you see the relaxer recognition on my face? Yes, absolutely. And that's coming from a place of fear, often fear of rejection or abandonment. And,

you know, if you think about it logically, going into a relationship already expecting that person to reject you or to hurt you, of course he's going to lead to a whole trail of thinking, feeling and acting. You know, if we come back to those basics of cognitive behavioral therapy, which is really where I sort of grew up in my psychological life, it essentially says that what you think controls what you feel and what you feel controls what you do. So when you're thinking or your self-talk or that internal monologue is saying things like, she's going to reject me, he's going to hurt me, all men lie, all women cheat. You know, these are really common mantras

that some people bring into new relationships. And of course those thoughts lead to what kind of emotion would you imagine? Uh, terror and, uh, anxiety, fear and walking on eggshells and second guessing everything your partner's doing, perhaps feeling suspicious, building up jealousies because that insecurities is not being met. And then of course that flows through into the actions, you know, all of a sudden you're checking their phone or you know, you're not trusting what's going on when they're out with their friends. So I think fear left unchecked is a real sign that you're not quite date ready. Yes. And actually, that's such a good way of putting it because fear, it's not that you should ignore it, it's signaling that you're not quite date ready. Yes. And actually that's such a good way of putting it because fear, it's not that you should ignore it,

it's signaling that you need to tackle something. And that goes back to that idea, the Mel Schilling brackets, TM close brackets, idea of dating yourself, which I think is super important. If I look at my own experience, I was in a series of long-term monogamous relationships from the age of 19 to 36. Wow. I sort of went back to back, partly because of that fear, that fear of being on my own,

of being left behind in some way, of being less worthy because I wasn't with someone. But what that did is that it meant that I became someone who outsourced her sense of self to the relationship that I was in. And I tried to understand what my partner wanted and then fit myself to that mold. And I have not taken the time to understand my own desires in so many ways. And I think that the only way that you can do that, if this is ringing any bells with you as you're listening, the only way that I could do that was actually to spend time on my own. And whether that is just taking yourself off to the cinema on your own or allowing yourself to have a lie in one morning and reading a book in bed

with a cup of tea, All of these things that seem like you're treading water, actually you're doing something that is integrally important. You are understanding who you are on your own two feet. And I think that it's only then that you can really fully show up as yourself because you've got to know yourself. Absolutely. And I think that's the foundation from which you can then develop what do I want in a partner. Because really without doing that work, you really can't have a stable sense of what you want. It reminds me of a tree without roots and it is quite literally blowing in the wind and just responding to swipes that you're getting on an app, you know, pings on a GPS. You're not actually stopping,

grounding yourself, putting down those roots and thinking in a conscious and mindful way, what do I want? What is going to serve me? What is going to bring out my best in a relationship. As a somewhat leggy individual myself, I really identify with the leggiest of all the veg tender stem broccoli. I can see that for you. It also just stands head and shoulders above the rest. Oh stop it. Anyway Mel, if you fancy something hot and steamy tonight, and since it's the season with Valentine's Day drawing near, why not opt for a side of tender stem? Broccoli but better.

Wow, you're really selling this. I am, because whether you're spending your Valentine's or Galentine's bromancing or flying solo, tender stem will always be there for you. Leave the bland behind, elevate your plate this Valentine's. It's all about taking a break from the Monday norm and trading up and doing something special. Tell me there's more! It's simple and easy to cook, ready in three minutes if you boil or steam, but it's diverse too, and it's great roasted or grilled for a more intense flavour. Plus, no waste generated

because you can eat the whole stem, and I often do. What a game changer. Tender stem broccoli is available from your favourite supermarket. Add a packet to your shopping basket this week. My grandmother was murdered, likely with a candlestick. I really think of somebody that never. My family tried to find the killer. So I got involved. And asked, what if it was one of us?

She did this. It's my hometown's greatest mystery. There's nothing people in the Delta like better than a good story. From Campside Media and Sony Music Entertainment, this is Witnessed, Devil in the Ditch. So we have dealt with the when and now we're moving on to the why. Questions to ask yourself to know whether you're ready to date. And as Mel just discussed there, building confidence and self-esteem is a really, really important part of that, as is the idea that we're not acting from a place of fear or loneliness or comparison. How do we know if we are emotionally available?

It's the big question, isn't it? It's basically the fundamental question of life, Mel. In three words or less, how do we know? And the answer is, oh, the mic's just broken. That is such a big question. And I think, again, this is where it comes back to don't do it on your own. You know, I love the idea of dating clubs or a dating buddy, you know, the idea that you can have a friend, someone who's going through this process at the same time as you or who's perhaps been through it before, to have these conversations with. And when it comes to, am I ready to date?

If I am, why am I wanting to step into this next relationship? Those are really great questions to ponder on your own in a journal. The why, because it's such an open-ended question, you know, that free association, just writing without any structure, I think is such a wonderful creative activity to do. Why do I want to be in a strong positive relationship? And, you know, listener, I think you'll be surprised what comes up. And you know, that's a really good starting point with the why. And you'll probably notice some themes coming through in there. And often it's about, you know, what is going to fulfill me? You know, you mentioned about

filling your cup. I think that's such a great analogy here. If you're going to step into your next great relationship, what is going to fill your cup? I also want to say that you don't have to date, that if you are genuinely happy, stable, secure, being single and being in a wonderful relationship with yourself and with your platonic friends, that's great. Absolutely. And I think there might be some people listening to this, or maybe they're not listening because they reject the entire premise, who state

proudly, I'm fine as I am. I don't need anyone and I don't want to date. And on the one hand, there are genuinely individuals who I do believe that of. On the other hand, I know friends of mine who say that, but deep down, I feel that they are rejecting, they are avoiding something. And so they're saying that, but actually deep down they would like to meet someone, but they are intimidated by the idea of putting themselves out there. So what would your recommendation be? Maybe we could both talk about this really, about how to get over that worry about presenting yourself on the apps. I mean, I know we're going to delve into it

more deeply in a future episode, but maybe we could just touch on it now. With you Mel, when you found your husband, that was on eHarmony, wasn't it? How did you find the wherewithal to go online? Did it scare you? I wouldn't say it scared me, but I was very avoidant. So my style was very, I had a lot of denial going on. And I put up this incredible wall, this very, very tough wall. My friend said I had F off written across my forehead if anyone came near me. And believe it or not, I may be five foot, but apparently I was intimidating.

That's so cool. I wish I was more like you. I had, I had, I had anxious desperation across my forehead. Oh, well, neither of us were going to find happiness really. It's a miracle we've ended up where we are. Well, we got through it. Because I had to become aware of it. And I actually had friends challenge me on it, where I was saying, you know, like you were saying earlier, I don't want a relationship. I don't need a relationship.

I'm single and fabulous. I'm great on my own. And there were a couple of friends who just would quietly say to me, but really, do you really want to stay on your own? And, you know, when I listened to that very quiet little voice inside my head, as I would lay my head on the pillow at night, you know, those few moments between awake and asleep when there's nothing but you and your pillow and blatant honesty. Those are the moments when I reflected and thought, I would love to be lying next to someone here who

is just my perfect match. But I wouldn't dare say that out loud because if I say that out loud, what if I meet someone and they reject me? Or what if I meet someone and they leave me? It was that fear of being vulnerable, I think, for me. So what was it then that brought that wall down? Well, it all happened around the same time as I was becoming a dating coach. So I had this almost parallel process happening in my professional life and in my personal life. So I started doing some little mini social experiments with myself. So I started, well, I told myself I was doing experiments. So it's almost like I tricked myself into

online dating. Clever psychology. Right? Whatver psyche. Something going on there is very complex, but it got me in there. And I realized that there were some really positive things coming up, but I also got feedback from people. You know, one of them was from an ex about coming across as intimidating, which at first I found funny, but then I thought it through and I thought, hmm, it's not really funny. It's actually a massive defense mechanism going on here.

And in a later episode, I'll talk about one of those first date experiences where it was all about the wall and there was really none of the real me showing through. Georgie Tunny Was it intimidating when you went, I mean, do we call eHarmony an app? I don't know. Was it intimidating for you went on? I mean, do we call eHarmony an app? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It's an app. Was it intimidating for you going on the apps? Because I think in my head, this is how naive I was. I was like, well, maybe it will be really fun because the world of dating had changed so much. I thought, well, this is a way of opening the doors to lots of people that I might not have met otherwise. So I

think I was probably quite optimistic when I went on the apps and I didn't feel that scared. How did you feel about it? Smug. Smug? I felt smug. As I'm listening to you describe your experience and your beautiful optimism and openness, I didn't have any of that. There was a real smugness. I went in there and you'll hear this in my telling it's absolutely a defense mechanism. I wasn't really smug. I was projecting smugness and I was almost looking back, I think I went into it looking down at the man.

Yeah. Yeah. Even though you're five foot. That's a physical impossibility, but I did it. I managed to do it. And I can remember, you know, almost whilst I was on some of these dates, thinking about the mean nickname that I was going to make for this boy to tell my girlfriends later, you know, I wasn't taking it seriously. And I think I almost gave myself permission to do that because I was doing it as

part of my sort of experimentation and learning about it from my clients. But it was also an excuse for me not to let the walls down. And I realized that, you know, I can remember sitting opposite one guy and he was really serious about having a family. And all I could think was he's interviewing my womb. And that's all I could focus on for the entire chat. And I'm sure I wasted a really nice opportunity there to get to know someone who was probably really good boyfriend material because in my mind I was putting him down. Fascinating. So do you think you were ready to date?

No, I wasn't. I really wasn't. And it's interesting that, that Gareth, who is now my husband, was able to cut through that and a lot of that was to do with, you know, we talk about flirty banter or flanta, you know, that's definitely a thing, but for him, it was, it was intelligent banter that I didn't get from anybody else. And that seemed to be the key, that sort of magic ingredient that dropped my walls. Surprisingly. So we've spoken about the when and the why, and now we're going to move on to the what,

which is all about breaking old habits, which we've already touched on. And I'd love to talk to you here about checklists. Because many of us do approach any potential date with a checklist of things that we want to tick off and that we believe our mythically perfect future partner will have. Now, for me, there's a thin line between that and actually, as we've spoken about, being clear about the sort of relationship that you want to invite into your life and the sort of relationship you want to have with yourself. And you spoke about journaling or even writing a letter to your ex. And I actually did something before I met Justin, who you know is now my husband, and I met him on Hinge.

I did something where I wrote, and I don't think it was a checklist, but I wrote down everything that I would ideally want in a partner. And that included things like is supportive of my goals as well as, I mean, ideally he'd be within my age range and devastatingly handsome. I was like, you know, there's no boundaries, there's no barriers. Let me write everything down. And actually there was something very clarifying about that process. And I don't think I did put devastatingly handsome down there. Cause I was like, actually that's not important to me. It's not part of my core values.

Kindness is much more important to me. And I wrote it down and I wrote it in pen on paper. And then I lit it alight and I let it burn into ashes. And then I scattered the ashes into the wind so that there's all four elements. There's water, there was wood, there was what are the elements? Anyway, it was all four of them. Fire. Fire. And actually I took a photo of that list before I burnt it. And when I met Justin

and when I got to know him, I realized I fished it out of my photo library on my phone, and I realized that he absolutely met every single one of the criteria. And it was so interesting. And yes, I might be a bit sort of spiritually aligned in that I do kind of believe in a power greater than us, but actually, I don't think that's just magic. I think that's about clarity of intention and then what you are looking for and what you're inviting in. Now, is that different from a checklist, Mel? What I like about what you've said there is you were defining things that were a lot deeper than the superficial. And, you know, often, you know, I am involved in a little show. Yes, let's talk about Married at First Sight. Thank goodness we've got onto it.

I don't know if you've heard of it. Yes. And they're constantly talking about types. My type is a petite brunette. Oh my gosh, that wise me up so much. Yes, absolutely. And the long scroll list of all the things I want and don't want in a partner. And quite often they are very superficial or they're just meaningless. You know, really when if you quiz the person on this particular criteria, it doesn't mean anything to them. You know, it's just something that they, often it's tied up with ego and with status and how they would be perceived by others if they had

someone like that on their arm. That's very interesting. Yeah. So it doesn't run much deeper than that. But what I like about what you've described there, for example, someone who supports my goals or someone who is kind, these are the kinds of things that I think should make up 80% of your list. I think if you've got 80% covering internal factors, then you can play around with that

20% that are more external. And the 20% should be more fluid, flexible, things that, you know, they're not deal-breakers at all. Maybe we should talk about deal-breakers, because I think that's pretty important here, isn't it? Yes, definitely. I think it's really important to make sure that your deal-breakers are linked to your values.

So for example, the one that you just said there about someone who is supportive of my goals, that may be linked to a value of ambition, for example, or independence. That is a really legitimate deal breaker to have, you know, as opposed to must not have hairy digits, you know. When she's saying digits, she means fingers. Yes. Hairy phone number would be a deal breaker. It would be, I think.

But the fingers, you know, yeah. Or white shoes. You know, these are the kinds of things that I hear from people as deal breakers. And, you know, I've known particularly some women that I've worked with who've said if he turns up and, for example, he's not wearing a belt, it's game over. LW – As someone who's only recently started wearing belts, because I always find them tricky items of clothing, I think that's so unfair. CB – It's very unfair.

LW – You've actually heard that. CB – I have. LW – That's wild. CB – Yep. LW – But you're right. To bring it back to values as much as you possibly can is a very important thing. So let's touch on attachment styles. What should we be aware of when it comes to attachment styles?

What should we be aware of when we are ready to date? Look, I think so many people who are out there dating at the moment are aware of attachment styles. It has become very popular. I know it's big on TikTok. And so it's sort of flowing through into the world of dating. And I think we can probably focus on it too much. So I think let's not get too heavy here, but it's a great piece of awareness. It's a great piece of self-awareness. I'm all for anything that is going to build self-awareness. And you know, if you're just aware, even at a high level, if when you're in a relationship, you tend to be a little bit anxious, where you, you know,

you have that, that fear response and you're worried, for example, you have worries that your partner is going to leave or reject you, you might be anxiously attached. You know, that might mean that when you're in a relationship, you're a little bit clingy. You know, you're a bit uncomfortable about letting your partner have some freedom. And of course, you know, these kinds of behaviors can be very stifling, very unhelpful in a relationship. Then there's the avoidant, which is what I was describing I was when I was single. And you know, not only avoiding dating altogether, but when I was getting and you know not only avoiding dating altogether but when I

was getting into relationships they were pretty much always people who were emotionally unavailable. So I was setting myself up for failure. That's classic self-sabotage. So avoidant people when you get into a relationship you often put the barriers up when it comes to being intimate. You don't really get vulnerable, keep things at a bit of a safe distance and of course that can cause all sorts of problems in a relationship as well. So ideally what we're hoping for is a secure style of attachment which basically means you know you're happy being in a relationship, you've got some independence of your own as well, you trust, you trust that's such an important part of being securely

attached is it's based on trust in yourself and also in your partner. You mentioned Married at First Sight. What is, do you think, the number one reason that you determine people are not ready to date on that show? What's the thing that comes up again and again? A big one is inflexibility. And often that is around type, whether it's this is the type of person I usually date, therefore I can't allow myself to open up to you, or I'm going to be judgmental about the kind of person you are because you are different from those

I've dated before. the kind of person you are because you are different from those I've dated before. But really if we take that helicopter view here, what we're describing is in flexibility of thought and that's no good in any relationship, whether it's a friendship, a work relationship, family, or an intimate relationship. One of the goals of a secure attachment and, you know, basically just being a good human is having flexibility in the way that you have relationships. So not being too fixed about my relationship has to do X and Y, but saying to yourself, if Z comes up, how might I respond? What could be the opportunities in Z? Mm. I mean, I know I'm slightly off topic, but do you ever deliberately match people

who you know are going to challenge their inflexibility? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's such growth in that. I mean, I believe from a compatibility perspective, there can be like attracts like, and we can see couples who are very similar and they work out, but also at the same time opposites attract. And I think both things can be true. And I've definitely seen fantastic relationships in both of those models. But what I really love is seeing those opposites attract relationships where there is that challenging and the most incredible growth can happen in those relationships.

Everything that was presented to me, I just swallowed completely whole. We are one of the richest families in the world that could never change. We're Steinbergs, like we are Steinbergs. We're Steinbergs. Like, we are Steinbergs. We're made of money. The family was drawn together by the money. I was so aware this could come to a screeching halt. Do you think I would have stopped? And then all of a sudden, the volcano erupts.

I'm Ariel Levy, and this is the Just Enough Family. Binge all episodes now on Apple Podcasts. Tex and Diane had it all. Until the night, neither of them wished to relive. The night only one of them can. She said, Tex, what did you do? You shot me. Join us as we dive deep into a world of power, money, and greed.

And one man's secret quest to grab the million dollar fortune of his deceased wife. From Sony Music Entertainment and Waveland Road, this is Deadly Fortune. Listen wherever you get your podcast. Well, I think we've nailed it. We worked out that we're ready to date. Sorry, husbands, we're off. We're going to jump back in the pool. But I would love to know if you have a practical exercise that could help our listeners determine if they are indeed ready to date.

So one of the guiding principles of date readiness really is having a positive dating mindset. And you know, of course we all bring so much baggage and experience from previous relationships and that's a given. So we're not going to say having baggage is a bad thing. It's just how it shows up and what you do with it. So this is about assessing your own readiness through your mindset. I love that, that baggage is not a bad thing. It's actually how you understand it and how you use it going forwards.

What a great note. Good, thank you. I won't interrupt now. Okay. So we have two axes, if you like. So two scales, one is about your beliefs about dating and one is about your actions. So both have a really symbiotic relationship.

So when it comes to your beliefs, are they low beliefs about dating? So things like, I don't think I'll ever meet the right person, or I don't deserve to be happy in a relationship. You can hear that they're very negative kinds of beliefs and they're going to lead to probably quite negative behaviors. The other end of that scale, so high beliefs when it comes to dating, would be things like, my next great relationship is just around the corner. So you can see that's a really positive open belief or I'm ready for a positive relationship. So you're really signalling to yourself and to the universe that I'm ready. And then the other scale is about your actions. So what you're actually prepared to do with that.

So low actions might be things like, I'm not prepared to go out and meet people. Apparently, my great love is gonna fall out of the sky and land on my couch, you know? Or I'd rather focus on other things like my career than go on dates. So they're quite avoidant. Through to the top end of that scale, things like I'm ready to initiate potential dates.

So that's not just reacting to dates, but actually being proactive here. Or I'm happy to go out and approach others and create new connections. So the first task here is to plot yourself on a scale of one to ten in terms of your beliefs and your actions. So interesting. And also when you were talking about the high vibrating beliefs, they sounded like affirmations as well. If you are struggling and if you are inclined to think pessimistically, would you suggest actually just physically saying those higher beliefs to yourself? Absolutely. I'd say print them out, put them all around your house, make them your wallpaper on your phone. That will be those reminders, those high vibe affirmations about your readiness to date. Oh, and those phone wallpapers are downloadable right now at thepodclass.co.uk and they are really beautiful.

Now, once you've got yourself plotted on the beliefs and the actions, you can then go to this little map and it will essentially let you know where you're at in terms of your mindset. Now, none of these are right or wrong. They're really just pieces of data that can tell you where you're at now. They're just an extra piece of self-awareness, which, of course, is so key here. So if you have really high beliefs and you really feel ready and want that relationship, but you're not prepared to take action, then that's what I would call blind faith. You're just believing that something outside yourself is going to happen. You know, if I think hard enough, he or she will come.

Well, they probably won't unless you take action. Coming takes work. I believe that's another episode as well. Then what if you have low beliefs and low action? That's only going to lead to pessimism because you don't necessarily believe you're ready for it and you're not prepared to do anything about it. So that's complete avoidance or just someone who's not stepping into the dating pool at all. Then we have this one I find very interesting where you have high you're high on the actions, but low on the beliefs. So you're taking lots of action.

You may be going on lots of dates. You may be on all the apps, but you haven't really put any thought into it. You don't really know what is it you want, for example. You're just blowing in the wind and therefore you're on autopilot. So what we really are looking for here, the ideal place to be is in realistic optimism.

So you have that positive set of beliefs, you feel ready and you're prepared to back it up with positive action. You're out there, you're trying. And the low belief can also be about yourself. It can be, I'm not worthy, no one will love me. Absolutely. Okay. So this set of beliefs is about yourself, a potential partner and relationships in general. So interesting. I honestly do wish I'd had this at my disposal when I was dating. So much of what I was doing was led by a kind of willful blindness. And this is so helpful because it helps you be proactive, considered stable and positive as you're going into dating. Okay, Mel, I think we've covered all of the bases, but I just think this episode has shown how much

we have to discuss. And also I know from the feedback that I've got from Instagram followers, from listeners of How It's Failed, how much this pod class is needed. And it was part of the reason I was really passionate about doing it. And as you know, I am really passionate about making expertise accessible. And the idea is, is that the pod class is a limited series. So we will be with you in your ears for eight episodes plus one bonus at the end. You can follow us on a week-by-week journey or you can choose to subscribe and binge all of the episodes at once. But the idea is that by the end of this how to date pod class you will have your dating toolkit, you will know what you need to do and you will, we hope,

feel really empowered to take the next steps whatever they are for you and we really hope that you meet someone along the way and maybe the best person you meet will be yourself. That's beautiful. We can't wait to see you next week when we'll be talking about meeting someone which is the eternal question. So we very much hope that you will join us next week for episode two of How To Date with me, Elizabeth Day, and me, Mel Schilling. We can't wait. See you then. Bye. Mel and I are on a mission to revolutionize dating. We want to make it better for everyone. And what better way to do that than to get you lovely listeners to sign up to a good dating pledge. Mel and I have designed 10 dating commandments,

things like I will communicate clearly and with kindness, I will not ghost or breadcrumb, I will always ask consent, and you can go and sign up just by putting your email in, that's all we ask. You can go and sign up at thepodclass.co.uk, that's the podclass, P-O-D-C-L-A-S-S dot co dot uk. Let's make dating better for everyone. Thank you so much for listening. Please do like,

follow and share with everyone you know who might want to listen. Who knows, one of them might even turn out to be your future romantic partner. This is a Daylight Productions and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. How To Date is brought to you by Morrisons.