Right About Now with Ryan Alford - You Might Also Like: NEWSGIRLS

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

Introducing Blind Drug Mules: Framed By Cartels, The Mass X-odus to BlueSky, & Why Are Dating Apps Dying? from NEWSGIRLS.Follow the show: NEWSGIRLS In this episode, a NEWSGIRLS original investigation into Mexican cartels hiding drugs on unsuspecting Americans crossing the border (00:49). These victims are called blind mules and cases have been increasing, even reaching the Supreme Court. Then Wren & Mabel explore why millions of users are deactivating their X accounts and soaring into BlueSky (13:18). Is Elon Musk the “free speech absolutist” he claims to be? Finally, the newsgirls sit down with dating expert Ilana Dunn to learn why singles are shifting back to meeting IRL (25:15). Formerly at Hinge, Ilana gives the inside scoop on dating app’s true motivations and whether they’re here to stay. SOURCES: https://publuu.com/flip-book/685660/1608020 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices DISCLAIMER: Please note, this is an independent podcast episode not affiliated with, endorsed by, or produced in conjunction with the host podcast feed or any of its media entities. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the creators and guests. For any concerns, please reach out to [e-mail].

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Today on News Girls, the latest frontier of drug trafficking, cartels use blind mules to sneak drugs across the border and drug traffickers latest scheme is targeting students who cross the border to attend classes. The mass exodus to Blue Sky. And Blue Sky was created in reaction to the dangers of a leader abusing control of their platform. Since Elon took over, he's handed over private user data to governments. And why are dating apps dying? People are feeling so exhausted from swipe culture.

All they want is to meet people in person. We are here in Washington Square Park. We're joining a dating run club. Undercover, this is undercover, Charles. Welcome to News Girls, I'm Ren. And I'm Mabel. Let's get into the stories. In light of Donald Trump's re-election, all eyes are on the border. Trump voters even in non-border states said that second to the economy, immigration is the most important issue facing our country right now. One of their big concerns is that immigrants are coming in through the southern border

and bringing drugs, since Mexico supplies almost all of the highly addictive fentanyl that comes into the country. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists. But despite this narrative about immigrants, 86% of all people charged with fentanyl smuggling in the US are Americans. And so today we want to get into a lesser known subsect of drug trafficking in which cartels use blind mules to sneak drugs across the border. So basically drug cartels will target an innocent, unknowing person who they know is going to

cross the border and they slip drugs like fentanyl, heroin, and meth into their car like they'll slip it into their seat cushions or tape it under the car and investigators have even found GPS trackers attached to the cars so that once the mule crosses the border these smugglers can track the cars and successfully get their drugs. Cartels scope out people's routines and watch where they go and follow their car to identify who crosses the border a lot, ideally daily for work because their movements are predictable and they're more likely to have sentry lane access which is expedited clearance for pre-approved low-risk travelers. Yeah there was a

blind mule case of a school teacher in San Diego who was caught crossing the border last year with more than 90 pounds of drugs, an eight-month pregnant woman who was having like contractions and was rushing across the border and was caught with 50 pounds of fentanyl, heroin, and meth, and even a woman whose ex-boyfriend secretly stashed 200 pounds of meth and fentanyl in her car and she was pissed. Understandable. And then there are cases of Americans driving to Mexico for what they think are job interviews, and while they're talking to their would-be boss,

someone else is hiding drugs in their car. And then if they make it back through customs, they're instructed to drive to a location to do paperwork. In the meantime, someone offloads the drugs from their car. I mean, that's crazy. Like this issue has become so prevalent and worrisome that the Tijuana Police Department has issued a warning for drivers to inspect their

cars before they cross over the border into San Diego. And out of the tens of thousands of drug trafficking cases a year, obviously most of them are people who are knowingly transporting drugs, but authorities said that 2% of them are blind. And drug traffickers latest scheme is targeting students who cross the border to attend classes. There have been several cases recently of students unknowingly becoming drug mules at Southwestern College in Chula Vista, California, which is only seven miles from the border. So many students commute from Tijuana, Mexico. So to learn more about this dark side to border town college culture, we spoke to Marco Berenno, who's the chief safety officer at Southwestern College. How often do you have a case of a student

being a blind mule? We've seen an influx or an increase of these cases. And I want to say the past two years, ever since COVID and everything else, the border got a little bit more restrictive when it comes to checkups. This increased the actual necessity of getting drugs across. We are creatures of habit.

We usually park in the same location. We usually take the same classes. We pick the same lots. It's really easy to identify the car, put the items inside the vehicle, track that car where it parks on a daily basis, and just use that to pick your contraband each and every day. And you said that a few students this year at your school were caught in this and were blind drug mules. The two cases that we have with students, the most recent cases, actually they picked it up on their phone. So the phone notified them there was a tag, unrecognized tag within their vicinity, and

they came down to our department to check it. And sure enough, it was attached there. We were able to check footage and everything else. The package was already collected in this particular case. Imagine like a Target bag in the back seat, something like that. And you would get into your car in the morning, drive to work, never checking your backseat and they're accessing these vehicles. And they access the vehicles the same way here without keys or anything.

They have these devices, right? Especially in all newer vehicles, they have these sensors, they're able to unlock the cars. Super interesting to hear the details from Chief Berenno. And I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to find yourself as one of those students. The chief also told us that during orientation campus police warned students about the dangers of becoming a blind mule, especially the students coming from Mexico, and they encouraged students to park their cars in a garage or a gated area. And the drug that's primarily being transported is fentanyl, which is a synthetic opioid that's

100 times more powerful than morphine. And it's really serious. It's a scary drug. You can die from ingesting just a couple milligrams, which is the amount that fits into the tip of a pencil. And in the past five years, fentanyl has become the leading cause of death in young adults, killing more young Americans than guns and car accidents

combined. And fentanyl is the ideal drug for this type of smuggling because small amounts can fetch huge profits. Like one kilogram of fentanyl can go for as much as $640,000. And that can fit in someone's breast pocket or the glove compartment of a car. So there's no need for boats or planes or tunnels, which is usually required for moving tons of supply.

But what's interesting is that Customs and Border Protection says that almost all fentanyl that's found at the southern border comes through cars, but only 8% of cars or personal vehicles are getting scanned. Yeah, that seems low, but I guess there are 90,000 cars coming through the border every day so it's not like they can have a million drug-sniffing dogs running around. That's true. And another issue is that basically everyone who's found transporting drugs across the border is like,

I didn't know the drugs were there. Like the drugs weren't mine. Everyone says that. So it's really hard to tell who is a blind drug mule versus a legit drug trafficker. Yeah, we spoke to the Department of Justice and they said they have an extensive investigative process to discern who's a real blind mule

and who's just trying to save their ass. They review seized evidence, they interview potential witnesses, and they seek proof that either corroborates or dispels someone's claims. Yeah, they basically said that many young people end up pleading guilty and saying that their initial denial was false.

So let's get into why young people are increasingly being roped into these schemes, not just as buy mules, but as victims of savvy cartel campaigns, sometimes even using Snapchat young people are increasingly being roped into these schemes not just as by mules but as victims of savvy cartel campaigns, sometimes even using Snapchat to entice people as young as 15 into smuggling drugs. Yeah, they're really infiltrating young people in the area. Federal agents uncovered a recruitment network inside more than a dozen San Diego high schools

where students worked on behalf of criminal groups in Mexico and basically persuaded their classmates to help smuggle fentanyl across the border. where students worked on behalf of criminal groups in Mexico and basically persuaded their classmates to help smuggle fentanyl across the border. Recruiters use bars and gyms and parking lots wherever young people frequent to help them find couriers. We read about an example of a college football star that was recruited by his friend. Yeah, and the way that these kids have been found

bringing in drugs has been creative. So border officials have found fentanyl strapped to teenagers' bodies, stuffed in crutches or in bags of potato chips. CBP has even seized a microwave stuffed with 166,000 pills and opened a backpack that had fentanyl hidden inside breakfast burritos. Young people are easy targets for cartels because they need money and will accept getting paid small amounts or unconventional payments, like sometimes an iPhone or an Android is their form of payment.

Which is really sad. I mean, CBP has said that these smugglers prey on naive young people who don't really know what they're getting themselves into. And like you said, many of them are in financial hardship. The recruiters all pitch relatively the same thing. They say that they'll pay between $1,000 to $10,000. But if you're busted for having fentanyl, you're looking at at least five years behind bars or more, depending on how much you have, which is why the Drug Enforcement Administration started a program to educate high school students about the risks of smuggling.

And federal law enforcement has put up billboards in border towns urging teens not to bring drugs across the border. And as we were reading through these cases, we were shocked to see not only the way that these operations recruited kids, but even their tactics to directly sell drugs to kids have been very inventive. To quote the DEA, no longer confined to street corners and the dark web, criminal drug networks are now in every home and school in America because of the internet apps on our smartphones, which they call a one-stop shop to market, sell, buy, and deliver

deadly dangerous drugs. The DEA made this guide to identify code words and even emojis that sellers use to secretly communicate that they're selling drugs. And we have some favorites. Ren, please share. We didn't know heroin is heart dragon emoji, meth is crystal ball blue heart diamond beaker emoji. No idea. Adderall is a dash train emoji. Universal for drugs is a maple leaf. What does that mean? Don't know why. I just can't imagine being a kid

or a young person wrapped up in serious drugs like this. Like we're talking about fentanyl, heroin, or meth. Whether you're buying them and taking them and then you have, you're becoming addicted. Or if you're selling them and you're risking going to prison for a long time, you're just seriously impacting your life. No, yeah, like for the seller even imagine how stressful it would be. Like you're 16, you're in high school you like just finished geometry and you're crossing the border with these crazy drugs and then you're stopped by these heavy duty guards at the border that is scarring for people well that's actually one of the benefits

of using blind mules because they don't have any nerves they don't even know the drugs are in the car and one of the big reasons people get pulled over for an additional screening is because they're acting nervous. And if a blind mule does get caught, it's not that big of a loss for the supplier since making fentanyl is so cheap. Remember how we mentioned that a kilogram of fentanyl can sell on the black market for more than half a million dollars? Well, it actually costs a cartel roughly $800 to make it. That's nothing. And they save money on the couriers because it's a free transport and someone just gets it on the other side Blind meals have also been in the news a lot this year

So this past June the Supreme Court ruled against a woman in California who is convicted of smuggling drugs across the US-Mexico border and claimed she had no idea that there were over $300,000 worth of drugs hidden in the door panels of her car But unfortunately for her the courts didn't believe that she was blind to the drug trafficking and she was sentenced to seven years. And this gets to a big issue, like even if someone is a blind mule, there's a huge burden of proof on their shoulders. Yeah, it can be hard to tell who's telling the truth in these situations. So actual blind mule victims end up having to pay the price for how long it takes to be investigated.

We saw an example of a blind mule whose car had to be in custody for months, you know, someone who was wrapped up in litigation for a really, really long time. And the saddest and most shocking example of all was an American citizen who actually went to jail for over a year and lost his job, like upended his entire life only to later be found not guilty by a jury. He says he still suffers physically and mentally from the arrest and has a lot of anxiety whenever he has to cross the border which he still has to do a lot. So to help avoid becoming a victim of blind meal trafficking we spoke to CBP to get some helpful tips. So make sure to

park your vehicle in a well-lit and secure area, lock your doors, roll up your windows, always inspect your car before crossing the border, and make sure to switch up where you park or your routine so you can't be tracked. And keep an eye out for anyone loitering around your car or if your car starts to make unusual noises. And Chief Perano actually lives in Tijuana so he told us what he does to protect himself. Hey, I myself, I never drive my American car around the city. I park my car at my in-laws house and I drive an additional another car with Mexican plates while I'm there. It seems kind of paranoid but I do it because I know what goes on and a lot of people that live across the border

know about these things so they tend to be a lot more careful and you know setting up cameras outside where their vehicles are at knowing that if their smartphone starts picking up a tag right right, to come to a police department or notify to customs, you'd be surprised how savvy students and faculty that live across, they're aware of this. And that's how we found out about these things. We also found out there's blind, you will human trafficking. We were terrified when we looked into this.

Apparently there was a story last year about a woman who had crossed the border and she heard strange sounds coming from her car. So she parked her car and opened the trunk and two people like ran out of the car. It's so crazy. We are definitely doing a story on that one day. Unless you're living under a rock, you've probably heard of everyone leaving X to join Blue Sky, the fastest growing social media app that was started by Twitter founder Jack Dorsey. I guess you could say it's a mass exodus. You've been wanting to say that for a while. More than 116,000 users in the United States deleted their accounts on X just on the day

after the election alone because of owner Elon Musk's close ties to Trump and the rampant hate speech on X. People are seeing Blue Sky as a refuge from X's political controversies and are kind of like framing it as a place where social media can be enjoyable again. Millions of people joined Blue Sky after the election, bringing its total users to 20 million. And this number will probably change by the time you listen to this podcast.

And something fun about Blue Sky is that the feed is in reverse chronological order, which is like how all of these social media apps used to be. It's like old school Twitter. Makes me very nostalgic for middle school. And similar to the old Twitter light blue bird symbol, Blue Sky skies is a light blue butterfly Which the apps creator says speaks to their mission of transforming social media into something new and it's called blue sky because it represents The Twitter bird being freed from a closed platform to fly in blue skies open ecosystem So there's a lot of symbolism and what blue sky is doing and they're not really hiding the fact that it's supposed to be a more There's a lot of symbolism in what Blue Sky is doing, and they're not really hiding the fact

that it's supposed to be a more evolved, almost like utopian version of X. Blue Sky's whole MO is making social media decentralized. So unlike X or Facebook or Instagram, which are owned by a single organization, Blue Sky has no central ownership, and the users dictate their experience with customizable feeds.

Blue Sky also has anti-toxicity features, which basically protects users from harassment and dog piling, which is when like a bunch of posts attack a single user. And the mastermind behind all of these decisions is refreshingly a young woman. So her name is Jay Graber. She's originally from Oklahoma.

She's biracial and she was originally a software developer. And Jay was only 30 years old when Jack Dorsey asked her to be Blue Sky's CEO. And Blue Sky was created in reaction to the perceived dangers of a leader abusing control of their platform, which is an accusation that's leveled

at Elon Musk frequently. And I guess we'll just call him Elon today because Musk seems formal. So true. And Blue Sky has made their position pretty clear. So while Elon spent election night with Trump, Blue Sky's account posted on X. I can guarantee that no Blue Sky team members will be sitting with a presidential candidate

tonight and giving them direct access to control what you can see online. And we've talked about Trump and Elon's friendship on our show. I believe we even called it a bromance. And you know, Mabel, if you were running for president, I would totally spend $119 million to get you elected. Oh wow, I'm so honored. As of now, Elon does have the biggest reach on X

and his political posts about Trump were actually seen by so many people. The reports estimate it would cost a campaign $24 million in ads to reach as many people as Elon's posts. That's crazy. And as Trump and Elon have gotten closer, people have become increasingly worried about how Elon is using his dictator level sway over the platform.

So last year, Elon was getting reportedly annoyed that his posts weren't doing that well on X, like they weren't getting as many likes or reactions. So he made X deploy a code to artificially boost his tweets by the factor of 1000, which is called the power multiplier and only refers to him. He tweeted this meme and the days after this was applied. And for the people listening, it's a girl labeled Elon's tweets force feeding milk to a girl sitting down labeled Twitter. So Elon is force feeding us his tweets. Oh, okay. And on its face, there's nothing inherently wrong with boosting in owners content, except that almost 90 of Elon's posts

this year have promoted claims about the US election that fact checkers have rated either false or misleading. On election day alone, he amplified anti-immigrant conspiracies and accused Democrats of voter fraud. And people are now pointing to the fact that Elon's obvious political leanings have changed the app's landscape since now conservative voices actually perform better on X. And it's funny to me that Twitter was once considered a liberal stomping ground so much so that Trump literally created Truth Social as a

alternative to Twitter for Republicans, but now X is also conservative and now they're best friends but they still have rival apps. Well it's not much of a rivalry since X is by far the highest performing text-based app out there. They actually told advertisers in September that they have over 570 million monthly active users. Whoa and that makes it even crazier that the value of X has absolutely tanked since Elon took it over in 2022. It's now worth only $9.4 billion, which is a far cry from the $44 billion that he paid for it. And we all remember his sink gimmick on day one. He had video of himself walking into the Twitter headquarters with the phrase,

let that sink in. And he literally was carrying a sink into the headquarters. Classic, love it. But it's not my favorite funny Elon story. No, me neither. OK, count of three, say what your favorite is. One, two, three. He's obsessed with the letter X. So as we said, apparently Elon has always

been extremely obsessed with the letter X. He actually tried to rebrand PayPal as x.com when he was CEO in 2000, but nobody like agreed with him because of the fact that x.com sounds like an explicit website. And you know what's crazy? Elon was actually ousted following a coup orchestrated by Peter Teal, who we all know is JD Vance's billionaire mentor, who's allegedly gotten him every job he's ever had, and was the one who convinced Trump to pick Vance as a running mate. It's crazy that all of these billionaires know each other and go so far back.

But even after all of this, Elon didn't give up on X. So as most of you know, his third Tesla model is called Model X. He actually wanted all the models together to spell the word sexy, which I'm upset. And Ford owns a model E car. So Elon had to settle on model three, which is like a backwards E. So he kind of did it and we're all buying scars. Congratulations. And lest we not forget his son's name X-A-E-A-12 Musk, which is pronounced Ash, of course. Of course. And then as we all know he bought and eventually rebranded Twitter to X. So he loves the letter X, but he has changed the app in more than just name alone. When he started the job, he started with slashing

80% of Twitter's workforce and cut legal departments and teams responsible for keeping the platform safe. Sounds like what he wants to do with Doge, his new department of government efficiency under Trump. Ironically though, he did start off as a Democrat. He's confessed to voting for Obama, Clinton, even Biden the first time around, but he eventually became critical of the party's stance on the economy, immigration, and gun control, calling the policies woke. And then he officially endorsed Trump after his assassination attempt, and the rest is history. And Elon has always been a free speech absolutist. I mean that's why he even bought Twitter. He said it was to make it a free speech platform around the globe so this was

obviously like a cause that was really close to his heart and after buying it he gutted content moderation teams because he clearly wanted Twitter to be this like digital free-for-all space. But the double-edged sword of anything goes is that there's been a marked rise in hate speech since Elon has taken over and made these changes, even leading to multiple lawsuits against the company, including one for failing to properly moderate anti-semitic content and Holocaust denial, and another for refusing to block a video showing a bishop being stabbed in a church. The Center for Countering Digital Hate found

that engagement on hate speech is way up since Elon took over, and we have some pretty jarring numbers. Slurs against black people more than doubled after Elon took over, and slurs against transgender people increased by 62%. But even though Elon once said he'd only let his company suppress speech at gunpoint,

many experts have called him a hypocrite, because in fact he has taken down accounts he doesn't like. Left-wing journalists, people who criticize him, even an account that tracked his private jet usage, like that doesn't seem very free speech. And it goes beyond him. He's been found leveraging X to make some pretty powerful friends, notably leaders of countries with pretty restrictive speech laws, which is interesting.

And since Elon took over, he's handed over private user data to governments to help them identify anonymous accounts, which is government surveillance. And according to research that was cited by Congress, Elon has complied with 99% of the nearly 1000 requests from governments to suppress content. For example, then Twitter blocked a BBC documentary that was critical of India's Prime Minister Modi at the urging of the Indian government. And at the time, Elon claimed he didn't know why this documentary was being blocked on the platform.

But then a couple months later, Twitter suppressed Indian users' access to activists, journalists, and politician accounts amid a government-ordered blackout. So people speculate he might have known more than he let on. Similarly, last year, X announced that it had taken actions to restrict some content in Turkey, aka it's censored accounts that criticize Turkey's authoritarian president Erdogan the day before Turkey's national election. And shockingly or unshockingly, you can all be the judge of that. Just months after X did Erdogan's bidding, the president asked Elon to build a Tesla factory in Turkey.

Oh, and going back to the India example, it might be relevant information that earlier this year, the Financial Times reported that Tesla is exploring locations for a $3 billion factory in India. And now that Elon Musk has such a prominent government position for the next four years and has the ear of the president, it is worrisome that his priorities and like loyalties don't always align with US interests. Right. And his decisions have real world consequences.

Yeah. When Elon bought Twitter, we weren't expecting it to have this like impact on global politics, but he's undoubtedly become a major player. This even goes back to 2022 during a really pivotal time in the Russia-Ukraine war. So Ukraine had launched a drone attack targeting a Russian sea fleet. And as they were preparing a launch, commanders realized that their connection to Starlink, which is Elon's internet satellite company, wasn't working. So the Ukrainian commanders, who are of course supported by the US Defense Department, asked

Elon to turn Starlink on so they could complete their attack on the Russian Navy, but Elon declined. He said, if I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war. And then that month, Elon proposed a plan to end the war by having Ukraine cede territory to Russia. He actually posted his plan on X, which was interesting. And naturally, Moscow praised the idea while Ukrainian President Zelensky denounced it. posted his plan on X, which was interesting, and naturally Moscow praised the idea while Ukrainian President Zelensky denounced it. Since then, Elon has been caught promoting Russian disinformation and has allegedly been in

contact with Russian President Vladimir Putin regularly since 2022, discussing everything from business to geopolitics to personal topics. I guess this dude's got a thing for authoritarian leaders. So that is your TLDR on why people are leaving X and flocking a blue sky. And as regular citizens, there's not a whole lot we can do if we disagree with someone in power to make our voices heard. And boycotting is one of the only tried and true ways to send that message. So if this trend continues, it's safe to assume Elon will get the message if he hasn't already.

And like so many people, you can leave the app. I mean, it's been around since 2006 and so many of us kind of like grew up through Twitter. Like I know it was my favorite social media app for a really long time. But in the past decade, we have seen apps die like Tumblr or MySpace or even Facebook. So if users kind of get turned off enough, they can leave an app and find something better. So maybe this migration is the beginning of the end because Twitter isn't even Twitter anymore. It's X now, and that means something else entirely. Hey guys, we are here in Washington Square Park in New York City and we're joining a dating run club. You've probably seen it, it went viral all over social media.

It's this single dating club that started really small and it's like ballooned. If you're single you wear black and if you're in a relationship you wear a color. And then everyone goes to like a bar after to like mingle. Undercover, this is undercover journalism. Oh I think they're taking off. It's going well so far. Love running in the frigid November cold. Just finished our run club experience even though we ended up only running for a bit and then joining the hot walkers. But people, you know, we're mingling. We spoke to some people, it seems definitely more friendlier than like

going to a bar where everyone's kind of like segregated in their groups. People do want to meet here. It's fun. I'm glad this is a good option. Yeah. Bye. A record number of Americans are single right now. And a big reason is that people are feeling sick of dating apps and want in person connection. Yeah, apps are definitely losing their appeal. 65% of dating apps and want in-person connection. Yeah, apps are definitely losing their appeal.

Sixty five percent of dating apps get deleted within just a month. And beyond that, half of U.S. adults say dating has gotten harder in the last 10 years. So to get to the bottom of this singleness epidemic, we knew the perfect person to talk to is Alana Dunn, host of the Seeing Other People podcast, which is the New York Times top dating podcast. Hey, Alana, welcome to News Girl. Wait, I need you guys in my back pocket at all times with these stats. I didn't know these

stats and I'm fascinated and I have so many thoughts. Thank you for having me, I'm excited to be here. So I guess let's get into it. Like the first question, why do you think dating apps are dying? We kind of saw them peak like five, six years ago. Like why are they dying all of a sudden? People are really burnt out from using them and overusing them. They've definitely become more of an addiction than a tool for so many people. And I think the biggest thing is coming out of COVID,

people really wanted true, genuine human connection. And they weren't finding that on the dating app. So people are feeling so exhausted from swipe culture and swiping with no results. And so all they want is to meet people in person but they don't know how to do that either because they're so used to going back to their phones. 100% and in your work are you seeing people opt for more IRL events like pickleball had its phase and then run clubs and now I'm seeing singles dinner parties?

Yeah I'm seeing singles dinner parties Yeah I'm seeing people really push themselves out of their comfort zone and actually go to these events and go to things like speed dating Or you know pick up a new sport or try running just to put themselves out there When you know a year or two ago, they would have thought that's so taboo and weird I'm not gonna do that But they're really really craving that in-person. And I think it's actually having a really great effect, like a domino effect, where people are going to these events, they're seeing that, okay, I can have a conversation with a stranger and I'm not going to spontaneously come bus.

And then they're able to put it into practice in their real life day-to-day interactions. But we still have such a long way to go because they're not actually taking that next step to go meet somebody in person or to say hi to a stranger or to go because they're not actually taking that next step to go meet somebody in person or to say hi to a stranger or to go to an event but slowly but surely it is starting to shift. What is your advice for getting over that mental block because it is hard and it is scary and we're all like fear of rejection is the number one reason why people don't ask others on dates. If you don't try you're rejecting yourself. You're not even giving the person the opportunity. Maybe they would love to talk to you. Maybe all they want is for someone to come up and talk to them. You're rejecting yourself on their behalf by not trying. So

would you rather try, get the experience, have a conversation? Maybe it goes somewhere, maybe it doesn't. But if it doesn't, you're back where you were when you started, but you've also done this really hard thing, and next time it'll be easier. So you actually have nothing to lose by trying. Maybe the person's not interested, or they're in a committed relationship already. They're still happy they did it, because they're like, oh wow. That actually wasn't terrifying, and we

had a great conversation anyway. Yeah, they survived. Yeah, exactly. And you're proud of yourself. So what is your stance on apps? You seem like pro, pro meeting in real life. Everyone's kind of over apps. What do you actually think about them?

I think they're an amazing tool, but that's what they are. They can't be the only way to date. You can't just rely on the dating apps. You're putting way too much power into this thing that a lot of it's out of your control. A lot of it is really up to luck and timing and the mood that you're in when you're swiping. And listen, I met my husband on Hinge.

I worked at Hinge for two years. I fully do believe that you can meet people on dating apps. You can't put all of your eggs in the dating app basket because when it doesn't work out, it's going to be so much more defeating and you're going to feel so much more hopeless. It's like applying to colleges. You wouldn't just apply to one college or a decision.

You would apply to a bunch of different colleges. You would have safety schools. You would apply to different programs within schools. You have to give yourself different options in order to create opportunity for yourself. Definitely. And so you worked at Hinge like kind of in its heyday, I would say, like the peak dating app. So what was that like? It was really special, was an amazing company filled with people who just want to help other people find love. And so there is this sentiment of like, the dating apps hate us and they want us all to be miserable. Like, that's not

true. They exist because people want to help other people find love. I mean, we would have an all hands weekly meeting where we would celebrate success stories and like we joked that we were in the art of like the baby making business. It was so cool and special to be in that environment. A lot of us don't know how to properly use dating apps, but the apps themselves, they really do want you to meet people. The people who work at these apps are there for a good reason.

That's encouraging to hear. Because we've talked about this. We've always been skeptical about the incentive of dating apps. That's how they make money is working, having single people join in to meet other people. So we've talked about this. What are their true? Like intentions hinge for example they have this Slogan designed to be deleted and people are like well, that's bullshit designed to keep you on forever

Yes, they're no longer gonna be an active user on the app Maybe they're no longer gonna be a subscriber but they are somebody who's gonna tell everyone they know I met my significant other on hinge and They are a walking advertisement for the app if it works for them. So they really do want people to meet someone and get off the app. And how do you think Hinge became, I would say, the biggest dating app I hear my single friends use. Like it used to be Tinder and then it was Bumble and now like Hinge supremacy has stayed for a while. Like what did they do?

I do think there's something to be said about the fact that they started as the mutual friends app where people felt a little safer, like they felt more comfortable, like it was people that they could meet in real life. So what did you do while you were there? Video and content producer and lead content creator. So I ran their social media. So I was creating content, creating dating advice. I was taking over their Instagram story every single day, talking to their audience and

really in the DMs with them, in the thick of it, figuring out what do they need help with, how can we help them, what insight can we give, how can we teach them to use the app better. Because I think one of the biggest problems with dating apps is they just appeared one day, and nobody actually taught anyone how to use them. I think especially the men need this lesson. So give everyone a lesson.

How do you use an app? A lot of it comes with the creation part. And I think this is going back to that original stat that you mentioned of the percentage of users that delete it within the first month. People are so eager to get on that they are rushing through the profile creation phase. They're just uploading whatever six pictures they think are the most attractive.

They're answering the prompts in whatever witty way they can come up with. They're not actually saying anything about themselves. We should be making sure that so many different sides of us are shown and brought out in our profile that we're giving people parts of our personality and showing them, hey, if you date me, this is what that might look like. Would it be weird to upload your wishes and wishes and dreams and like ethics on a dating app when everyone is just kind of like casually using it? I think it's you have to show not tell.

Yeah, you can't, you know, so many people I do dating at profile revamps like as a psychic. What I see so often is people come with like a laundry list, like green flags I look for, communicative, empathy, kind, supportive, creative, outgoing. And it's this laundry list of things they want in a partner. So we have to, you know, show that we want somebody who is adventurous rather than just saying we want adventure, you know, and we can show that through our photos. We can show that through a prompt of what our typical Sunday is like.

My biggest thing is you can't read someone's energy through a dating app and I know for me as a person I'm so susceptible to that like meeting someone in person like how do they carry themselves, their charisma and then when you get on the app it's so like one dimensional. I like boil them down to just the superficial things like where they go to school, how tall are they and then I judge it on that and you don't get like a 360 view of someone. Absolutely, I mean think about like

when you meet somebody in person, you're not just learning where they grew up and what school they went to and what degree they got and what job they have now like in three seconds and then making a snap judgment, you're feeling out the vibe and you're seeing if you guys click and having a conversation and then you're finding that out.

I mean, I have a friend who she is, she's very smart. She loves like intellectually stimulating conversations. She has always wanted to be with somebody who like went to an Ivy league school. She met somebody at work and she fell in love with him. He is none of the things that she thought she wanted. Do you think though that dating apps have created this like Overwhelming impression that there's like a billion choices out there Like is that kind of like an issue that if this person isn't perfect

I'll like swipe 800 more times to find someone who is perfect for some people for like one bucket of people over here It is absolutely an issue and there are other people who can't get a date They can't get a match for the life of them on the apps. The apps are not working for them So it's two completely different buckets of people with very different issues other people who can't get a date. They can't get a match for the life of them on the apps. The apps are not working for them. So it's two completely different buckets of people with very different issues. So do you think dating apps have changed the culture irreversibly?

Going back to IRL, is that even possible at this point? Or are they here to stay? I think dating apps are here to stay. But I don't think people are going to only rely on the dating apps the way they have over the past decade. And I think there are so many dating apps are here to stay, but I don't think people are going to only rely on the dating apps the way they have over the past decade. And I think there are so many dating apps popping up that are doing dating in a different way where they're trying to solve for this real life connectivity problem. They're trying to solve for women feeling more safe on the apps.

This app, for example, ForPlay Social. They are a double dating app, essentially. So you and your best single friend make a profile together and you swipe on other single friends together. And so it's these joint profiles and it takes the pressure off. Cause at the end of the day, you could go out with somebody you matched with and maybe none of you ends up like hitting it off

in a romantic way but the four of you have so much fun together and at the end of day you're out with your best friend you know creating memories totally it's a story to tell and it's fun and probably more comfortable more comfortable safer yeah for sure and you have somebody like in the thick of it with you I think that's an awesome app this app first-round on me in order to match somebody proposes a date plan and you either accept or decline the date plan, and then the chat doesn't open until 12 hours before your date is planned.

So there are apps out there that are really working to make it a better experience, and I do think it's a matter of which of them are going to cut through and make it. I do think this desire for people to meet in real life is going to ultimately benefit the dating space as a whole, because I also think it will lead to better date conversations even for people who do meet on the apps. Well, that was such a great conversation with Alana. Everyone go listen to her podcast,

seeing other people, and follow her. She makes really great content. As for news girls, we will be off next week for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back the following week. So thanks for listening. Bye.