Right About Now with Ryan Alford - You Might Also Like: The Rennae Stubbs Tennis Podcast

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Introducing Billie Jean King and Ilana Kloss from The Rennae Stubbs Tennis Podcast.Follow the show: The Rennae Stubbs Tennis PodcastRennae sits down with business leader Ilana Kloss and the woman the team competition is named after at the namesake event—the Billie Jean King Cup—live from Malaga, Spain, to talk about the explosive growth in women's sports and highlights from the most important team competition in tennis.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.DISCLAIMER: Please note, this is an independent podcast episode not affiliated with, endorsed by, or produced in conjunction with the host podcast feed or any of its media entities. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the creators and guests. For any concerns, please reach out to [e-mail].

Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence. And we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi everybody and welcome to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast. We are live, literally live in Malaga, Spain.

May I just say before we get going with our wonderful two guests, how I've just been walking around the city of Malaga and if you haven't been, get your butts over here. It is gorgeous. It is beautiful. It was so surprising. I thought it was going to be smaller than it was and it's just fantastic. So get over here, get on a plane. It's not far. What is it? Like a six hour flight from New York. There's no excuses. It's better than flying to LA. But now that I've said that, somebody who does come from LA, but two amazing guests today here, of course, the week of the

Billie Jean King Cup, Alana Kloss and Billie Jean King. Hi guys, Billie you have been on the pod before. You are not a virgin to my podcast. No I'm not. But Alana is. Hey what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week

for our show Civic Cipher. That's right, we're gonna discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies. Think of it as a black show for non-black people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle.

Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable and equitable America. You are all our brothers and sisters and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher

each and every Saturday with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I am, although I have to say I'm a very loyal follower and listener. That's great. Thank you so much.

I appreciate you guys. It's a joy actually to have you. You are both, I can say this, hopefully both very good personal friends of mine. Absolutely. It's been a joy to get to know you guys and I'll get to that at the end. We have been roommates. I've done your laundry, Billy and Alana. I'm glad you're good for something. Yeah, thank you. And before I get into like sort of some of our personal stuff, I want to talk to you guys because Billy, you get interviewed all the time. Alana, you get interviewed all the time independently. And sometimes you go, I don't get to have you together.

So I want to know for the people, the listeners, our listeners who love tennis, how the hell did you guys ended up being a couple? It's been forever. 45 years this year. 45 years, muzzle tough to that. You said the right word because Ilana is Jewish. I know. forever. 45 years this year. 45 years, muzzle tough to that. You said the right word because Ilana's Jewish. I know.

And well, it's an amazing story actually. I started as a ball girl at the South African Championships and Billy in the amateur days, Owen Williams, who was the promoter of the South African Championships, brought all of the best players to South Africa. They were at the time getting money under the table. Hey now.

Love hundred dollars. Hey now. It was a lot. I just grew up loving tennis. My mom sold programs at the tournament and I was a ball kid. And the very first time I saw Billie Jean. How old were you? I was 10 years old.

God. Billie Jean King, Rosie Casals, Rod Laver, Roy Emerson, Tony Roach. I mean, all the best players in the world came and I was a ball girl. And I just loved the way Billy served and volleyed and, you know, always charged the net and had all of this emotion and passion in the way she played. And, um, you know, destiny really, I was hitting on a side court with my dad, um,

before the tournament, Billy walked by the court and she said to my dad. She was pretty good. Yeah, she said, you know, I recognize your daughter. She's been picking up balls and would you mind if I came on the court and hit a few balls with her? She walked on the court, she hit with me for 10 minutes. She said to my dad and actually my mom

who was there as well, your daughter has a lot of talent and if she wants to continue to pursue it, here's my address, here's the name of my coach, Frank Brennan Sr. She introduced me to the Wilson rep and the rest is history. I decided that day that I was going to be a professional tennis player. Little did I know there wasn't pro tennis yet for women. So that was my first time I met her. The second time she came back to South Africa. But when I went to Wimbledon in 1972, because the people don't know

you were a very good player in your own right along. I wasn't bad. Wasn't bad. But one of the world and went to Wimbledon, played in the junior event, bumped into Billie Jean again. In those days as a junior, they wouldn't let you practice anywhere near Wimbledon. So I walked past the court, Billie Jean was warming up for her women's singles final

with Kristin Kemmer at the time. And Billie Jean said to me, why don't you come and warm up with us? And so I warmed up. Which is unheard of now. Exactly. Can you imagine that? I mean, one on one would be one. I said, do you have a practice court? Have you practiced for your matches? I knew she

was in the finals of the juniors. And she said, no, I can't play on these courts. I have to go someplace. I said, just come with us. Let's go. So there was just three of you on the court. Three of us on the court. I prefer three for practice anyway. They worked out great. And you know, Billie Jean won the match against Yvonne Gougalong at the time,

and I won the junior event against Glynnis Coles. And you know, so our lives have intersected. Yeah. Obviously since I was 10 years old, but it was just because I had a passion to play and I wanted to be a pro. And that's why we always talk about, if you can see it, you can be it.

And how important it is to go to countries like Malaga to have 137 nations in the Billie Jean King Cup because every time there's live tennis in a country, you are just inspiring the next generation of young kids. And so, you know, we're very committed, I am personally to playing that forward because it changed my life. Yeah, there you go.

Whoa, I'm impressed. I mean, no, I'm all ready to go. Let's go, what do we want? Let's have a goal here. You know, I actually never, I'm all ready to go. Let's go. What do we want? Let's have a goal here. You know, I actually never knew that story. I knew part of that story, but I didn't know all of the story. So that's really just great to hear. And it is so important. And it's funny because maybe not at the same time, but I wanted to be a ball girl at the Sydney

tournament at White City. My mom wouldn't let me ball girl. Why? Because she said, no, I want you to play. I don't want you to be the ball kid, which is interesting, right? Yeah, because you want to be on the court with the best players and actually get that bird's-eye view. I think it was that she didn't want me to not be at school, Billy. Yeah, that sounds right. That's what my parents... But I skipped school. I don't know if you remember that court at White City and it had that waterway through the middle of the back courts.

I remember. And my brother and I used to sneak down there, down into that water area. It was no water, it was only a little trickle. And we'd get up onto that bridge that would bridge from the back to the forward. And we'd sneak up onto that bridge and get into the tennis tournament that way.

I never paid. Now why am I not surprised? Well, you know. Is this White City? Yeah, White City. Oh my gosh. I remember that. Isn't that funny? You know I remember. I remember seeing you. And I've got an autograph book. I not surprised? Is this White City? Yeah, White City. Oh my gosh. Isn't that funny?

I remember seeing you and I've got an autograph book. I've told you this with your autograph. That's so cute. But you know what? I remember the side wind at the city. Yeah, it was awful. Oh my goodness. So when you're on one side, it's going right to left.

And then when you change ends, it's left to right. And you really got to pay attention when you change ends because you don't want to wait until the score is 30 love or love 30. Oh yeah, the wind's the opposite. You know, you've got to pay attention when you change this because you don't want to wait until the score is 30 love or love 30 and go, oh yeah, the wind's the opposite. You know, you've got to be. Yeah, but as a certain volleur, it was not bad having wind because you knew that they couldn't pass you on a certain side. Exactly. You had to play the court and the wind and the conditions are really important to understand. So, okay, so we've heard like the story of your relationship and going through, I mean, essentially through life together now. So how nice has it been for you, Billy, for both of you to create something like your

foundation, this business acumen, it's been going through playing a tennis career, but then now doing something even more special, a legacy you're going to leave long before we're all gone. What has that meant to you, Billy, to sort of not only have a life with Alana personally, but also build this incredible business, foundation, vision together? Alana's always been really good in business. She just didn't know. You know, you don't know when you're a young tennis player, but she's really good at sales

and concepts. And her dad was a salesperson. I always tell her and I tease her, you know, it was in your dad's blood, it's in your blood because she loves it, she thrives on it. She gets a lot of yeses. She doesn't get as many nos as most people trying to sell because she understands the other person. I'm so aware of that, by the way, personally. It's about relationships. We try to understand the other person and what they need, not what we want. And then you match it up.

So Ilana is really, really exceptional at that. And also very good at taking care of a client once we have one. Because that's just as important, if not more important as well. A lot of people get a yes and then that's it. They don't see them again. No, you do just the opposite. You must take care of your clients and the people in it with you. And relationships are everything with us.

We talk about that all the time. And we also want to create that with the people that work with us that they feel that it's like family almost, that we really care about them beyond just the work they do for us. I think that's important. But we just realize that how much women's sports needs help and to progress. We're so young still. I was always very frustrated in the 60s and 70s. You know, our generation took tennis from amateurism to professionalism. I love the fact I was a part of that. I also, what people don't realize, I've been in the business since 1968.

My former husband and I own tournaments. Part owners, obviously, because we didn't have any money. We had good ideas. I think being on the business side, because the players will ask me, what should I do, Billy? I go, learn the business. Yeah, it's so true. Because I say to you, when you go to, let's say, a 500 tournament or 250 or whatever, I go,

did you get paid? And they go, oh, yeah, of course I got paid. And I go, did you ever ask the owner, promoter of the event? Because they work all year for this one week. This is not like, oh, we just put it on for a week. They kill themselves for, that's what we used to do. We'd just kill ourselves for that one week of a tournament. I said, have you ever asked them how they have done? Did they have a good week? And not one player has said to me. They look at me and they get this blank stare and they go, I never thought about it.

And I said, well, it might be good. And then why don't you work on a tournament for a week? Just work. Just like staff person, just work. I don't like that word staff associate. And so, I just said, go ahead and work for a tournament, just answer the phone even. Of course, you don't do it like we used to in the old days. I mean, I used to get calls, I would sit and take calls from people buying tickets. And you learn so much from them to go, well, I

want a ticket when Chris, Evan, and Martina are playing in the finals. Well, they might not be in the finals because they have to, you know, you explain the format of a tournament, which they didn't really understand. And then you, they make decisions that way and we try to get them to come early. Because there's so many great players, people don't realize. I mean, if you look at different sports, they have thousands of people who play that sport, like in the league, like baseball's got 900 guys and, and football's got about 900, you know, NFL. Yeah, I mean, it's always tennis in a lot of ways.

And we have thousands playing and no one appreciates them. No. But if I say I'm bringing a pro player and they go, well, what's her ranking? If I said 500, they say, ah, they're no good. But if I bring a Major League Baseball player or NFL professional player or a soccer or football person from NWSL. They lose their mind. They go, oh, wow. And I'm like, so they need to understand that tennis players go very deep on our rankings and it's a global sport, which I think is absolutely huge. As a child, I knew

it was important because I love history. I read all the history books. And I knew then that I was going to be a part of a global sport because I didn't grow up with tennis. I'd never heard of tennis. A friend of mine, Susan Williams, said, do you want to play tennis? You said, what's that? I go, what's tennis? She says, seriously?

I said, no, seriously. I don't have a clue. It's going to be the rest of your life, Billy. That's what she should have said. Well, you know what? I'm still in touch with it. I just saw Susan the other day and I said, every time I see her, I, it's all your fault. I always say it's all your fault, Susan. I hope you say it's all your fault and thank you so much.

Yeah, and I do say thank you. Are you kidding? Every day she's on my blessing list, every single day of my life. Without Susan, I wouldn't be here. So I'm really thrilled. Well, I think just back to your question on the business. You always know how to bring it back, Alana. Billy Weave, she's a Weaver. She's our business person. Yeah, you're a Weaver, Billy. No, no, but I mean, I was fortunate enough at 17 years old to be around when the WTA was started.

I was in the room when we formed our first player association, which was kind of our player union, although we were independent contractors. Betty Stover locked the doors and said, you're not leaving. I told Betty, don't let anybody out or in. What was amazing was that even Billy at the time was thinking that it was very important that the tour was perceived as global and not just have Americans on the board.

So as a South African, I got to be on the second board and I just got to learn the business. I mean, the players actually ran the WTA and it was just an amazing education to actually learn the business. So I feel I was very lucky to be mentored by Billie Jean and at the time my former husband Larry King because they were in business. And what I learned was that the relationships that I could make by going to a sponsor party, by playing in a program,

I mean, we had the opportunity to meet the very best of the best, the best CEOs, the smartest people. And so I learned at a very young age, what was important off the court as well as on the court. So that was a big part of it. And then to be honest, I did not love competing in tennis. I hated being out there alone. I liked being part of a team. That's why I love playing

in the Billie Jean King Cup, which actually was the Federation Cup when I was growing up. And just that being selected to play for your country, I think you Stubbsie know what that means. I mean, when you got the call to play for your country, that was it. It wasn't how much prize money, are there points, are there points? Are there no points? I didn't even know we got paid. Exactly. Sign me up. It was a great honor. And I think as a young player, you know, you aspire to represent your country. And that's the great thing about tennis. You can have

individual and you can have team. And so very quickly I learned that I love the sport of tennis. I love the business of tennis, and but I didn't actually love competing. So I was very fortunate that, you know, when I came to the end of my career, I played about 11 years on the tour. Billie Jean was doing world team tennis. They needed somebody to help with players.

I got in at that level. Then I got in with our partners and sponsors. I then I ran the league for about almost 20 years. And when we sold World Team Tennis about eight, nine years ago, we decided that we really wanted to continue in the business. And there was just so much opportunity and so much need in women's sports. And people just kept coming to us and asking for information.

And so just all that history of learning and understanding the business and having to operate a league on a small budget and always struggling. And then our life changed when we met Kimbra and Mark Walter. And actually, you're, a little bit of it is your fault because you introduced us to Kamau Murray and excess tennis.

And Billy went and helped him raise some money. And then, you know, we met the Walter family who obviously owned the Dodgers, asked us did we want to be involved with the LA Sparks? And I'll never forget- Hey, you guys might- Oh no, you missed out on page brokers yesterday. Number two, sorry guys. Yeah, I know. Billy's not looking at me very happy right now. She might be going to the wings, but anyway, carry on, carry on. Because you know, I follow all these things, kids.

Yeah, no, so, but you know, the interesting thing was that Billie Jean said to Mark Walter, well, why not the Dodgers? And he looked at her and he said, you know what, Billie Jean, why not the Dodgers? And I think that really propelled us to kind of be at the big boy table. Yeah. And I think what that's enabled us to do is have capital.

Yes. You have to follow the money. And it's not just because you want more and more money, but money allows you to have choices. Yeah. And that's why Billy always tells women and young girls and everybody, follow the money because that's going to give you options in your life. And then you can give it away. But make it before, you know, you don't always default into nonprofit work. You know, look at, you know, a much broader lens.

It's funny that you say that like, you guys know me very well. I have never had an agent and I have established relationships with people. And then they get to know me and then they get to know my work or know me as a person. And a lot of people insinuate they think they know me, but then they don't realize these relationships are formed by talking to people. It's getting to know people, it's getting into the rooms. It's getting to know Kim and Mark. And Kimbra has been, those guys have been incredible for tennis, for women's sports. They're the major sponsor now of the PWHL, which you guys- They are the owner. They are the only investor in millions and millions. And that's

why I try to make the players and others, it takes millions and millions and billions of dollars to make these. That's the way men's sports has worked. If you look at their history, which I try to learn all the time. But for me to ask for what I wanted and needed, that was unusual because girls are taught not to ask what we want and need. So that was the first time just for us, I can ask for a group, a huge group and all that. I'm great at that. But when Mark asked us about the Sparks, and I love basketball

as my first sport, that's really good. But my brother was a major league baseball player for 12 years. I grew up in professional baseball, professional football, all these things. And of course, I grew up with the Dodgers because I was a teenager when the Dodgers moved to Southern California. So here I'm a kid, we didn't have one major league team in California. Now there was five and now they were down to four maybe. But the point is, my allegiance was with the Dodgers. And so I had history with the Dodgers, the reason I wanted to be with the Dodgers. And then of course, secondarily, which I didn't think about right away was it's worth a lot more money. And so, you know, we want the Sparks to start doing better too. But you know, and people come to us constantly asking for help. I mean, Kendall Coyne called

Ilana, I think- KENDALL COYNE, ice hockey. Great. Ice hockey. She's the captain of thene, ice hockey. Great. Ice hockey. She's the captain of the American team. Unbelievable. The fastest skater. She's 5'2". It's hilarious.

Her husband's 6'7". Michael, he's adorable. Anyway, and she has a new baby, Drew and all that. So it's so cute. But I remember her calling. We were at a Lakers game because Mark's involved the Lakers as well. And I grew up with the Lakers. I'm a Laker kid. And she calls us. the Laker game and Kendall called you. Kendall does. Yep. And Kendall

Coyne calls us and Lauren took the call and walked down in the hall and she says, I need your help. I think Angela Rosario gave her the information, which was important. And Angela Rosario was just a rock star and a superstar in 98 Olympics. Okay. So I knew all about her and she was a friend. I met her at the Women's Sports Foundation. So Kendall calls. So we set up a meeting in New York. I'll never forget. I can know exactly where we're standing, where Kendall was standing. It was right before you go into the kitchen. And she looked up at us and said, help, we have to have a pro hockey league, a proper one, not the ones we've had. Yeah, because they were splintered.

Splintered, not only that, but when you did play, a lot of times you didn't get paid, a lot of times you slept on a sofa, you couldn't get a shower. I mean, we're talking about basic stuff. So we went to Mark, but it took seven years and And we had our first season January 1st this year. It was highly successful. We're really on the game plan. We're in our fourth year, actually, with the second starting, I think, November 30th this year. But the Professional Women's Hockey League has got only six teams right now. Mark owns every single one of them. So every team, everybody's taking care of equally because of that. Because you have great owners, you know, sometimes and bad owners

and all that with the way it works now. I see it in the WNBA too. I see great owners, I see great owners in the WNBA investing and they're getting a lot out of it because of that. That's right. I think the single entity ownership model for new leagues, I think, is the way to go because you can really build that infrastructure and consistency across all of the markets. And then you can maybe bring in investors to buy some of the franchise. But if you just realize how much money this takes to get started, and I tried to explain to the players, things don't just happen. It takes millions. They look at me like, millions of millions? I go, yes. Millions and millions. Well, billions sometimes. And they go,

huh? And that's why I want them to understand the business. I mean, when you go to Wimbledon, even understand that, or if you go to a small tournament, understand what people go through to put this on for us. Yeah. I think it's important for players to understand just the business side of it. I think it's such a great- Just basics. They don't have to know- It's a great- I think it's something that we should be teaching at school actually also is financial literacy

and things like that. We are here in Malaga for the Billie Jean King Cup. So I want to talk to you a little bit about the relationship with, particularly with ELF Cosmetics, who's now- Oh, I love them. ELF has really supported iHeart Radio, the women's sports network. They've really put their money where their mouth is. If you don't hear it, you don't know it. You don't see

it. If you don't see it. Right? All the things. So that's a start. Also, of course, they're now a sponsor of the Billie Jean King Cup. I know how important it is. I talked about this, you know, with Corey Corey from ALF, the CMO. She's the chief marketing officer. She's a pistol. I love her. Amazing. But Billie, I said to her, one of the things about women's tennis, for example, is we've had great sponsors through the years. Obviously, both of you know so well, Virginia Slims was such a catalyst. Clearly not the greatest sponsor considering it was smoking. Well, that's a whole nother story.

They were. Yeah, but they, but they, but they were incredible partners. So how important is it for the both of you to work with a company like Elf and so many other companies that you work with here at the Billie Jean King Cup, but how important is it to have a company like them, for example, who really the demographic, the diversity, the quality, the board, everything. It matched up philosophically perfectly with them. So tell me about that. Tell me about that first meeting with them and how important it was for both of you. Because they're disruptors with a kind heart.

Yeah, I think there's not that often, right, when you have a partner who has the same values and is trying to help use that platform, right, to inspire others. And I think, you know, just the way that they activate, like everything they do, they don't just slap a logo on anything, they really build. The fact that they have you here, the tennis podcast here,

they have Sarah Spain from iHeart, they have a bunch of editors and influencers, they are all in. And those partners are very, very hard to come by. And the product is amazing. And I think because of them, we've added this Power of Women's Sports Summit to the Billie Jean King Cup because we believe that tennis has been amazing in paying equally exposure,

although we can talk about three sets for the women and five for the men, which we think is terrible. Well, and the two is a not paid equalization. We have a whole other discussion on that. Exactly. So the big events in the Billie Jean King Cup, obviously because of Gamebridge, we're able to give equivalent prize money to the Davis Cup. That is an important philosophy.

The thing that we love about ELF is that we have been able to launch this Power of Women Sports Summit alongside the Billie Jean King Cup. And to have dialogue and to bring leaders together from all types of businesses who care about women's sports is a huge opportunity. And I love that they are bold disruptors. And if you ever, you know, if you looked in the dictionary and you had Billie Jean King, you would have a bold disruptor right next door.

And so I think that collaboration is perfect. And I think what they're trying to do in bringing data and facts to this change the board campaign, that's incredible, incredible. You can't just have one woman, you have to have three or more to have things shift. And so it's amazing to have a partner who really activates and wants to tell your story. And I mean, I don't think we've had one since way back in the Philip Morris days. And like you said, this is a product that young girls and women can really, they use. So it's a perfect fit. Yeah. And they're really inclusive. They just So it's a perfect fit.

And they're really inclusive. They just love it. They don't care what your background is. They don't care about anything. Just people and they love, it's just very big on inclusion, which I love. And anybody wants to wear this makeup, it doesn't have to just be a girl either.

It can be anybody that wants to wear it. It's fun. But I just love Elf. When I said, Elf, what's that? And then with the eyes, you know, and the lips and the face. And I thought, God, what a great name. And I don't know, I just love the whole thing.

I mean, the other thing too is they really are big on helping underserved community. Their products are affordable. Yes. That is huge, affordable. Which is amazing. Because there's not the markup like there are another. And it huge. Affordable, because it's not the markup. It's about excess. Our brands and values align so well. And that's really the real... I mean, you already talked about Alana at the start, how having...

back in the day, it was Fed Cup, Federation Cup, now the Billie Jean King Cup. It is where you start kids at the grassroots of tennis. The ITF is so important for the grassroots of tennis. They just did the Junior Davis Cup and Junior Billie Jean King Cup. That's what we want. Those are the kids that are going to grow up and be our future leaders. They're going to be great players, some of them. Only 1% really make it in a sport at the pro level, at the real elite level,

but you can stay in your sport. That's what's important. Look at what you're doing now. I mean, you used to play, but now you're doing your show and you're still in the sport plus other things. But the point is that you have a long life in a sport. It's been my condo. Tennis has been my condo in my life.

And I think kids should understand that if you love tennis and you don't think you're going to be the best, don't worry. There'll be something that you're good at and you can stay in the sport because we need them. We need them to stay in tennis. Tennis, with all the research, especially in the States with the Mayo Clinic, it is the healthiest sport in the world. I love giving the gift of tennis to anybody because- Not pickable. Oh, that's all in that discussion. But tennis is the healthiest sport.

You guys listen to my podcast. You know how I feel about it. We're on the same page. I don't think pickleball actually – actually, orthopedic surgeons – Am I going to have to bleep you? No, you will not. Orthopedic surgeons come to us all the time and say you cannot believe how many more injuries are in pickleball than that.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's unbelievable. I guess they can't – Say it for the people in the back, Billy. Anyway, people that love your pickleball, just make sure you train enough. But why don't you just play tennis as well? Because just hit in the little service box. That's what Lana and I do now. Just hit, we warm up in the little, she could kill me just playing the service box. And I don't understand why people don't do that. We should break it up. Even the pros practice half court. We don't even practice all the court.

I agree. Oh, Billy, we could go on for hours about that. We don't have enough time. I want to give people ideas who play tennis that you don't have to play points. Just drill and hit the ball. It's so much fun to feel the ball against your strings. Okay. So don't worry, Billy, because everyone who listens to this podcast feels the same thing about it. And if they don't, because everyone who listens to this podcast feels the same thing about people. And if they don't, why are you listening to my podcast? But get the other people to pick it up. And they don't have to be children. Get older people, get whatever age group, especially the children, because it becomes a habit. They'll have it the

rest of their lives. I know. When parents get their kids in pickleball, I'm like, what are you doing? But listen, let's not get onto the rant. Listen. I want to know, Billy. The sound kills me. I want to know Billy. The sound kills me. I want to know, because we are here for Billie Jean King Cup, I want to know your favorite story from Billie Jean King Cup back in the day, playing and as a coach, and same for you Alana, as a player. As a player.

You know I love concepts, right? And to create opportunities. So the first year was 1963 at Queens Club. I was on the US team. They invited 16 countries to get it started to see if they thought it might work or might not work. And I was 19 and Darlene Hard was our best player in the US. And I was number two in Carol Caldwell, who was my friend and my roommate a lot of times from Santa Monica. She was the third player. But I remember standing for photos and saying how excited I was. Poor things. I kept yelling at them all week. We have to win the first one. So when we look at the cup 30, 40 years from now, we'll see the USA was the first one to ever win it. We're gonna make history because you know how much I love history anyway.

And they're looking at me like, what? What do you care about? I go, no, you don't understand. This is so important because this is going to get bigger and better and we have to be the first. My name is going to be on this trophy one day and I want to be the first. No, USA was going to be the first. You know what I mean. It is now the Billie Jean King Cup Cup. I did not know that. I was so excited, but they started Federation Cup because it was the 50th birthday of the ITF.

I don't think a lot of people know that. The Davis Cup started in 1900 with Dwight Davis, who was the captain of the Harvard team started it. So they have a huge jump on us, 63 years ahead of us. So we're always starting a little late, but we're getting there and we had our 137 nations as Ilana said this year. And you won it. Did you win it?

We did win it. We were down match points to Australia, which was Margaret. God damn it. Margaret Smith. I didn't know that. And Leslie Turner. I knew you didn't know that. So you mean I could have been?

I was saving that for the, you know, the go in there. And I yelled at Darlene, I'll never forget, she's playing the left court and I was playing the right court because I always played whatever they didn't want. I'm one of those. You were my dream partner. I go, what would you like to play the right or the left? And they go, I want this. I go, okay. I play the other side, whatever. And so, I played the right court with Darlene because she won the left court. And she was a better player than I was. She should

be there and the way her game was. But I could feel her like it was waning in that she, we're going to probably- We've got to be the first name on the trophy. No, she probably- Billy's going to be mad at me. No, we're on the court the first name on the trophy. Billy's going to be mad at me. No, we're on the court. We're on the court now. It rains. So we're in. But that's what she's thinking. No, but I can feel her saying, well, we might lose this. We're right now close to a match point. I said, Darlene, you know, I want her to, I go, I looked at her, I go, we're going to win this. Come on. And I saw her just go, okay. And just all of a sudden, intensity came back, everything. We got so lucky. I don't know how we won. I don of a sudden, her intensity came back, everything. We got so lucky.

I don't know how we won. I don't remember what happened or anything, but we won. Is there such thing as luck? We probably were very lucky, but I'm so happy because we are the first name on the cup no matter what. And every time I look at it, I remember those matches and what happened, the very first one. So I've been a part of this from day one to now.

And it has just been amazing to see the growth. And Aussies by the way- An Australian can suck it. Is that what you're saying? No, Aussies, I think you won the second one. Okay, fine. But it's not the first. No, no. But Aussies are probably as good a country as any and how the kids, the players play

for their country. And they know it's a privilege. They love it. They have numbers on – what number were you? I was number 25. So you were the 25th player to play Fed Cup. And I think what the Australians have done is great. I want names and numbers on the back. So everyone thinks I'm totally out to lunch. But the point is I do want that. And I love it when I saw the Australians. I've never seen you at a lunch in my life.

So Alicia Molten. Mollick. Alicia Mollick. Sorry, God. I know it's Mollick. She was so great. And she was showing me the numbers and explaining it to me. Because what are those numbers?

Yeah, Daria Gavrilova's 50. So I said, oh, bloody hell, I'm half for you. So where are they? They're at 100 and something. No, 57 or 58 now, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually the longest tenured Australian for Billie Jean King Cup player.

How many? Well, I think it was 18, but it really should have been more than that because there was a couple of times where I got left off the team because I was insubordinate apparently. So they left me on the team. Oh really?

But it's okay, Billie, because the two times they left me off the team, I won Wimbledon doubles. So, hey. That wasn't too smart. They shouldn't do that. It was not very smart of them. You should put the player that deserves it. You know why they kicked me off? Because I spoke up for the players, Billy. They didn't like it. You know how that feels? I do know.

Yeah. To wonder they didn't kick you off a couple of times. It was their loss. It was their loss. And I think they lost both times. And you won big tournaments and they lost. That's right. All right, Alana, for you first and most like just great story that you can remember. I have so many. I have a great one and then not so great one. So in 1973, the Fed Cup was actually in South Africa and I was the reserve on the team because I was a young little kid. Whippersnapper. Whippersnapper.

How old were you? It's always politics, right? I think it's 17. Oh, hello. I just told you mine. But I did get to practice and be with the team. And we actually won the competition in South Africa. We beat Great Britain in the finals.

And it's actually funny because I know Great Britain are in the semifinals here. And I don't think they've ever won it before. Have they ever won it? I don't think so. I'm not sure they have. But you can fact check that. What?

But I do know that they were in the finals against South Africa. Oh my God. That's unbelievable. And we beat them. It was Virginia Wade and Winnie Wildridge, Winnie Shaw at the time. Wow. I mean the whole country stopped. It was a huge deal. I think again that representing your country, there's nothing like it. Obviously, because of apartheid, South Africa actually was

kicked out of the Federation Cup at the time in 1978. That was a little bit bigger than just getting kicked off the team. Yeah, right. Exactly. In 77, it was kind of scary. We were playing in Eastbourne. And they threw flour on the court. They threw oil on the court. We actually ended up having 24-7 security. And so we were then kicked out. But, but you know, I think even now, South Africa's back in the competition. They're playing in some of the smaller regional groups. And again, I think that first feeling of being chosen to represent your country and wearing that blazer. Yeah.

Yeah, I've still got all of mine somewhere. There's nothing. I keep everything. There's nothing like that. I'm a hoarder. I love it. still got all of mine. There's nothing. I keep everything. There's nothing like that. I'm a hoarder. I'm a hoarder. I love being captain too or coach, captain. And that's a full time job because I went to tournaments, I built relationships with the players. I'm probably the luckiest captain in the world though because at one time I had the four number one or former number one on the team together. Unbelievable.

I think I had Lindsay Davenport, Monica Salas, Jennifer Capriotti, Lisa Raymond in Las Vegas. We had Venus and Serena came along. I mean, we, Monica- Mary Jo Fernandez was amazing. She helped me when I had to speak Spanish in Spain in those days. She helped me get my speech because I can phonetically do it, but I don't really know it. But I told her what I wanted to say and she helped and her mother helped me.

It's so cute. And I told the audience and they all stood up and they, yay, you know, the mom and Mary Jo helped with the speech and it was so great. So no, but as a captain, I'm one of the, I just know I'm the luckiest probably captain ever to have lived because of having those good of players. And you have to treat the A players, I call them, and B or B plus or A minus. Everyone's different and you really have to be a psychologist, I think. Oh, I'm a wet one. If you want to be a great captain or coach, you've got to be a psychologist, I think. Oh, I'm aware. If you want to be a great captain or coach,

you've got to be a great psychologist. And I've had years and years of therapy, and that really helped me. Yeah, I agree. You guys know I've done a little bit of coaching in my time as well. And people say, and I said, yeah, the X's and O's are one thing, and giving someone

a game plan is another. But all you do the whole time is basically become a sports psychologist or a psychologist in general. Alana, well, you can just wait. Yeah. Okay. That's hard. You can wait. I'm serving in Barling here.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I think, um, Billy has this ability to see the world from 60,000 feet and, you know, be able to have a vision for the end result. I think that's an amazing quality. She's the most persistent person that I've ever met in my life. She never gives up and she always starts over. She doesn't take anything personally. And that's huge. Because if you don't take things personally, you can always be in the solution and been looking to move forward. And the other thing that I'll say about Billie Jean, she is a great uniter. People think of Billie as being a fighter, but that is really not her style. Her style is to bring people together and to find the commonality in reaching a goal together.

And she'll only fight if she has to, but that is not her inclination. It's always, I think she's the people's champion and she's an incredible uniter. It's before you say anything. Feel pressure. Before you say anything, pressure's a privilege, Billy. Oh, I can tell you that. That's a FedC anything. No pressure. Before you say anything. Pressure is a privilege, Billy.

Oh, I can tell you that. That's a thick up story, actually. I can tell you when I've had situations happen, one in particular was the Margaret Court situation in Australia with the naming of the court. It was the time that she came out and said some pretty derogatory, terrible things about our community. Just the LGBTQ plus community in total. I was getting a lot of calls from reporters and TV people in Australia because it was a big story there. I remember texting or calling

you and I said, Billy, help me. Help me word what I need to word in this situation. I've never forgotten the story you told me was, Renee, there are people when you have your name on a building and when you have your name on a court, and you of course have the National Tennis Center and in Queens named after you and there's Arthur Ashe Stadium and then there's the Rod Laver Court Arena in Australia and then of course there's the Margaret Court Arena. And you said, everyone that walks through those gates or those doors might be straight, might be gay, might be all of the things, might be trans, might be anybody.

You don't know. And you should be inviting to all of those people no matter what. If you wanna have your name on an establishment, you have to understand people walking through those gates and doors are everybody. So you have to be inclusive of everybody. And I thought, oh my God, what a brilliant way to put it. Rather than slandering someone like Margaret, you just say, if you're going to have your name on something,

that's what you need to understand about how important it is to accept everybody because they're paying money to come into your doors, into your gates. That's right. It's got to be hospitable. Yes. And so I'll never. Yes. That's our job. I'll never forget that. The reason I tell that story is I want people to understand that you are like my North Star when it comes to – because everyone knows I can be a little brash in my comments. Really?

Yes. But I have learned, Billy. Caitlin's very proud of me. I don't tweet as much anymore. Actually, I've gone off her Twitter. I'm onto Blue Sky now for those of you out there. Blue Sky, get on it. It's a much happier place.

A million new people every day. Oh, lots, lots. And now that I've got you, Billy, you know, you, Alana, hopefully more and more people. But it's so important, you're so important because people think that you're a fighter, like Alana said. So when you were telling me that story, it's so true. Billy doesn't piss people off. She unites behind a common cause of a conversation as opposed to, you know, it's even the thing with the Saudi. You're like, if we're not there, we can't change minds. I'm not sure what to do with that. This is a really tough one. Although I do know that unless you have engagement, you can't change. So that's the difficulty.

But I also don't like what's going on there, but how do we break down doors? When the WTA went there, they actually did all these programs that are going to continue every day of the year. They're not going to just be there when the players are at the tournament. Is this going to make a difference or not? I don't know. I know Muslim girls were so excited to come and watch, especially Coco winning. And so what if we get a champion from there, a woman champion?

You know, I don't know. These are questions I have. I think about things all the time. But how do we make it better for everyone? And you know that everyone wants more money all the time. There's a lot of money there. It's a very difficult thing because money equals opportunity. So I don't know. But I think it was up to the WTA. I'm not the boss. I'm not in the WTA that way at all. But I think it's up to the players today to help shape the future.

But I don't know. I'd love to hear. But I'd love to hear from them what their experience was. Yeah, but I think what is important and I think what you should share as we come to the close is that- But you still owe me what you admire about Alana. So you're not getting away from that. I want to do that. I don't know where to start and stop though. I think, just give some clarity on the WTA was founded on three principles. Yeah, and there wasn't this equality and social justice and all. Here's the three things that original nine in 1970 came up with. The three things, and we had our first tour, Virginia Slims in 71 when you were born, Renee.

Thank you. Here are the three things. Yes, I'm old. These are the three things that any girl in this world, if she were good enough, would finally have a place to compete, really compete. Number two, that she would be appreciated for her accomplishments, not only her looks. That's all they talked about then. They still talk too much, but it's better than it was.

Number three, and really important to all of us of us is we'd be able to make a living money playing the sport we love. Those are the three things. I didn't get into equality. I didn't get into anything. I just wanted to, you know, we had this place for the future generations and everything we did was about the future generations. Every time we had a meeting, every time we had a discussion, I don't think players are doing that anymore. Well, you say they're living your dream. They're living the dream, but they need to bring the sport.

I mean, I remember Tip Nunn, my publicist, telling me, he says, I don't feel like the players bring the sport with them anymore. And what he's saying is, it's our job to motivate others to play, to appreciate what we have in our history, but also take it to the next step. And you've got to take your game with you. And I don't think the players think like that anymore.

We have to change that again. We've got to go back to, not back, but forward to getting them to think about the future generation, not just about themselves. I want them to start saying we and us and talk about others and not just talk about themselves, the I word, and it's really, really important. And I don't think the players, I don't know what you guys think.

Yeah, I agree in a lot of ways. But I think we wanna keep taking and growing our sport, allowing kids to play. There's a place for them to play, create more opportunities, but it takes work with every generation. I mean, Coretta Scott King, and I probably won't get this right, has a saying, she says that,

you never win, that every generation has to work and whatever to win, to have freedom. And every generation has to do that. So it's so important. I didn't get that right, but it's about, it's about no one ever wins freedom, that every generation has to earn it. Keep fighting.

And keep fighting for it. Well, God knows that's important now. Every generation, but this generation needs to understand that. I'm not sure they do. Well, well. And they need to do that because it's our responsibility. We are making more money than we ever thought possible.

Well, I mean, I thought we'd make millions as good now they are. But the point is, with that, I think comes a responsibility that goes very deep. And that's where we need to connect history with the future because the more you know about history, the more you know about yourself, but the most important thing, it helps us shape the future. And I know, but I don't know if players think about that today. And we have to create that culture within the WTA again and make it exciting and make

us think about others, not just ourselves. I think it creates a... It's so much more fun when you think about others. Anyway, talking about Alana, which I would love to talk about, I told you she was a great salesperson before, but what I really love about her is that she is totally loyal. She's amazingly loyal to people and her friends. Very giving. She's an Aries, that's why.

Oh, that's true. Is that what you are? Yep. Of course. Anyway, she's very giving. You should know that. We're like a diapotino. Are you? Yeah. And she's really smart. You should know that. We're like a diapotino.

Are you? And she's really smart. I love smart. I love intelligent. She's really intelligent. And a lot of people, I don't think, realize that. They always look at me and I'm like, no, look at her. Look at Alana, no, look at me.

She's the one that really makes things work. And I just think we really love each other. I think love is really important. Yeah, we complement each other. I think, as really important. Yeah. We complement each other. I think, as Billy says, she dreams it, and then I try to build it. That's true. But I do think being here in Malaga, and when you think about the Billie Jean King Cup, Billy hates the word legacy.

She says others define that. She wants to keep going every single day. Oh, I know. No, we're measured on our contribution. Yeah. And, I know. No, we're measured on our contribution. Yeah, and so I think- Not what other people think about us. We should be measured on our contributions.

And we really look at this competition as a platform to empower young women and girls and others. And I think we will be judged, the success will be judged when, of these 137 countries or more, have more women representation on their federation boards, have more women coaches, have more women in media, have more women in officiating,

because I think we can use it as a platform to build. And the great thing about Billy, it's never about what we're doing now, what can we help build for the future? We really feel it's a privilege to be in this position and we take it very seriously. Well, I remember Billy telling to me, I think I was 39 years of age at the time, I was playing World Team Tennis and she said, keep playing as long as you can, and I said, Billy, I'm 39, pretty sure I'm doing that.

But she always encouraged me to keep going. No, because people, when you cannot play as a pro. Oh no, I wish I could still play. It's a killer. Especially with the money right now. Oh my gosh, don't you go there. I knew I'd never make the big bucks. That's another decision I made as well.

I think, Renee, I think it's fantastic that you have stayed in the tennis business, that you love the sport, that you continue to promote it, and you're always trying to learn new things and help grow the sport. So I think what you're doing with the tennis podcast, what you're doing with iHeart, and just having you here, think is fantastic because I think every generation has something to add to the history but more important the future and I have never seen anyone other than Billie Jean with as much passion and purpose for everything they do and I have never seen anyone attend more women's sports

If I want to know anything about women's sports, just go to your feed and So honestly you are truly committed and I think we're lucky to have you Promoting and loving women's sports and tennis is just one of the very few things you do a whole lot more. So thank you. Oh, thank you guys. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've, I tell you, I'm not kidding. Get your butts to Malaga. It's going to be here next year. Uh, no, we're not sure.

Well, either way, get here to Malaga at some point. The third largest, I think. In Spain. In Spain. And it is truly beautiful. I had no idea. Absolutely beautiful. I went down to Mambaia a couple of days ago.

There's some beautiful tennis resorts down there. There's cruise ships out there. The bottom line is wherever the Billie Jean King Cup is, please make an effort to attend, come. It's great atmosphere. What you guys have done, what you're building with, all your sponsors, particularly with ELF, it's been great because they've been such a conduit for women's sports in so many ways, particularly at our heart and here at the Village and King Cup.

Well, they're changing the boardrooms too. And they are changing the boardrooms. I mean, so many people, so many companies could learn so much from them. And by the way, they're doing very well for themselves. So that's probably a reason to put some more women. I know you do. Well, they are amazing, but I don't want to forget Gamebridge who are ensuring that we can pay equally for the men and Microsoft who

are helping with technology, Franklin Templeton, Magellan. They're all the relationship that you guys have built. Exactly. Exactly. And so nothing happens without partners. And so we're very grateful for those. And again, you need the best athletes, you need great facilities. And we're excited about turning the ship and building the future of the Billie Jean

King Cup. Well, I can promise you guys, I will be wherever you're at. It's a pleasure to be with you guys. You're two awesome, amazing people. I do consider you my friends. I'm really lucky to have you in my life. We love you. Yeah, you're our friend for sure. And it's you my friends. I'm really lucky to have you in my life. We love you. Yeah, you're our friend for sure. And it's been great. And I can't wait for the matches today to start, the semi-finals start here at Billie Jean King Cup today. Wherever we decide to put this podcast, whether it be today or in a week or in two days, it's just been awesome to be here. I'm so happy just to be your guys' friend. So thanks for everything. Thanks for

being my North Star, you two. Thank you for always showing up. I try. Showing up is huge and winning, by the way. You do show up. You don't see it, but I do have passion tattooed on my arm. You do? You are passionate. Not on my ass, Ilona. Not on my ass. I definitely don't have it. Although maybe I should think about it. It's on my right arm, Billy, because I'm right-handed and that's what I believe in, passion. If you're not passionate about things in your life, you'll never be successful. As you have shown both of you through the years. It's more fun. Yeah, of course it is. Billy, we could, what, Alana, tell everyone that story that you told me. It was pretty funny. You said about there are two people in the world.

story that you told me, it was pretty funny. You said about there are two people in the world. Two people in the world, some talk 10,000 words a day, and then there's you and Billy. Well, Billy's pretty full. She's pretty full. You're being very sweet. I am very full. Sorry, Lana. I'll stop talking and go, all right, just be quiet. Oh, and by the way, before before I do want to get this on the record, congratulations, Billy, on being the first ever athlete female athlete or athlete to get the congressional female athlete. Yes. Same with the presidential medal of freedom. First woman athlete. I mean, I'm like, really, I'm the first, I should not have been the first. And we have so many well, I hate to say this, but if anyone's going to be the first to get the medal of honor, Billie Jean and we have so many women. Well, I hate to say this, but if anyone's going to be the first to get the Congressional

Medal of Honor, Billie Jean. Well, we have more women now because of that. Congratulations. Mic drop. You don't want to be the last. You never want to be the first in line. You always want to open the door. Billie, yes, you want to be the first. You wanted to be the first in the bloody trophy and now you want the first medal. Well done. On that note, she's smiling.

Well, I think Althea Gibson should have got it. Yeah, see, here we go. She can't help herself. Oh, no, I have all these. I'm going to try to get it posthumously for them. Are you kidding? Oh, see, here we go. You heard it here first. So maybe this is the first series in this podcast. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there you go. Well, I didn't even tell the story of pressures of privilege was Fed Cup, you know, with Lindsay Davenport.

Do you want to tell us that story? Or if you want, you're going to have to edit it because it's too long. I mean, it's up to you. No, I was in, I can tell exactly. I mean, I can sit here for bloody hours with you. It's appropriate because we're playing Spain. We were playing now. I mean, we're our host country in Spain. And it was a ranch in Conchita anyway. Lindsay Davenport, who was number one in the world four times, she's six feet and of course, I'm getting a bad neck because they're all much taller than I am. I'm looking up all the time. She comes over to me and she's 6'3 and of course I'm getting a bad neck because they're all much taller than I am.

I'm looking up all the time. She comes over to me and she's panicking. She's got to play a Ronchus Sanchez-Vicario who she hates playing. Was it on play? No. Then what's her problem? No, no. It doesn't matter. And she was uptight because she wants to win so badly. This is what happens when you play for your country. It just adds to the tension. She says, oh, help me. I don't know what to do. And I said, okay, you're going to be here today. And I said, just remember champions adjust and pressures of privilege. She's looking down at me because she's so tall.

Oh, that's great. That's going to really help. Thanks. And she won. But that's where pressures of privilege and champions adjust come from. Now it's on the entrance to the court. It just came off the top of my head. It's such a great thing now because a lot of players touch that. They do?

I never see them touch it. I would. A lot of players touch that plaque. I would touch it. On their way out. You can't touch the Kipling one. Unless you're like Karlovich or John Isner. Personally, if you're a professional athlete, that Kipling one isn't worth anything.

I hate it. Every time I used to look at it, you seriously going to treat winning and losing the same? Hell no. If you show me a player that does that, they're not a winner. So they're a loser. So every time I see the Kipling, I go, bullshit. Thripe them up, you know, Mike drop. On that note, pressure is a privilege. It's been a pleasure. I love you both so much. Thanks for joining us this week. Thanks a lot, Renee. Bye, guys. Classic. You've got enough for a few podcasts.

Classic. You mentioned that your blessing list. Yes, every morning. Say a few more words about that. Just curious. Well, just people I love. I make sure I put on summer on, sometimes sometimes summer on like Susan Williams on every time. Yeah. Because she changed. Every time I see it's your fault that I've had such a great life. You know,

I just saw her at the Women's Sports Foundation. She was there. I know. She said she said it was in Wisconsin. I know you were at the WNBA. That's okay. That's nice. Sorry. Nice problem. Was it the Liberty game that night? No, it was the playoffs. Believe me, I went to one. I love the Liberty. The reason I asked you that question is you keep saying I'm lucky, you talked about the blessing. My parents are always on it, my brother, and then there's different people in my life. Lana's of course on it all the time. Well, I just I have this deep state of mind that generosity. Oh, it's huge.

That's good. Comes from gratitude. You're right. Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward.

And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence. those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other, so join us each Saturday

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