Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S10 EP24: Charlie Brooker

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant writer, producer and director - Charlie Brooker. The new series of Black Mirror is available now. Parenting Hell is a Spotify Podcast, available everywhere every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] Follow us on instagram: @parentinghell  Join the mailing list to be first to hear about live show dates and tickets, Parenting Hell merch and any other exciting news... MAILING LIST: ⁠⁠parentinghellpodcast.mailchimpsites.com⁠⁠ A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you the listener with your tips advice and of

course tales of parenting woe because let's be honest there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing hello you're listening to parenting hell with Dylan can you say Rob Beckett? Dylan, can you say Josh Whiddicombe? Good boy. There we go. Now, he sounds very South East London, but there's a Birmingham Midlands twang in the middle, but I think he's from like South East London.

Is that because you're from South East London and you're currently in Birmingham? Yeah, I know, I got confused. I was like, Dylan, he sounded a bit near me, Elton. Not far from you actually. Where? Maidstone. Yeah, so that little estuary twang. I don't know whether this is...

Offensive one? No, whether this is invading his privacy, because he hasn't put it at the end of the email. Obviously, his full name is in the email and it's a great name. He's called Harry Bachelor. Harry Bachelor. Harry Bachelor.

I went to school with a couple of bachelors. He starts with the most maestrone thing. Gobble, gobble you pair of slags. Ha ha ha ha. Do you know how much, and this is a bleep for Michael. Do you know how much I get from that? He goes, you, and he'll stop me in the street sometimes in front of my kids or like go, you are a funny c***. In front of your kids sometimes.

F*** it out. Your audience Rob is absolutely wild. I love it. It's a good mix. Someone came up to me drunk at the hotel bar in Cambridge. They were off their chops on, I think, other stuff. They kept on going to the toilet a lot. And they didn't stop talking. Dicky tummy. And also they didn't notice me at the bar for like an hour. And normally the way they reacted to me, if they'd seen me earlier, they wouldn't. They weren't whispering and then coming over. Yeah. They weren't building up confidence. They just completely didn't notice me because

I was trapped in their own world. They were in a way they were going to the toilet to build up confidence. But I don't think they knew it was from me. But they like to sort of city boys that were in Cambridge. They've done a deal and they probably earned a bit of money and they were getting battered. Loads of, you know, sometimes holding a gin and tonic and it's just sloshing all over the top as they gesticulate like an Italian footballer with a referee just arms all over. I was cleaner that night. And he was sloshing about like that and he went, I was like, oh, you, you're that fucking, you're right back in, yeah.

I was like, yeah, yeah. And he was really quite aggressive, but I was like, I've got quite good at de-escalating sort of situation. He went, come here and have a photo. I went, no, I'm saying, if you want a photo, you come over here, I'm not wandering about. And then he came over and then we had a photo. He went, Joe, you're an ar-funny. And then see you went here again. You're an ar-funny, you know, you're ar-funny. And I was just like, all right, okay.

And then like, I was just like, well. Like you've asked for a picture. You're allowed to like me. I know, it's so weird. He don't have to be this alpha bloke of showing vulnerability because you've got up to another man and been positive of a compliment. And I said, and then I thought it was quite funny because I was doing three nights in Cambridge and I said, good job that I'm not a full funny CUNT

because I'd be here for six nights. Oh, very nice. Anyway, I went, yeah, wasted, absolute wasted. And then you're all in Yeah, wasted. Absolutely wasted. Only only man, the sound man knew what I was talking about. Big up Mike Hornby. Mike, we were sat there. The guy from the parenting hell talk. Yeah, like, yeah, he's a lovely, lovely guy.

He does James Blunt a lot as well. And he's done Alan Carr. He's such a lovely guy. And we were just chatting about Cambridge and stuff like that. And like the uni because we was at the uni. It's mad. I've never seen a city be so sort of overwhelmed with the university. Like Oxford, it's like a city and there's a uni

but Cambridge it feels like the entire thing is the university. Yeah. And it was I was gonna taste it Josh. I was I don't know if I mentioned this last week. I was like, I think I'd love my kids to go here. But I would hate it, Rob. The Oxbridge Elite? You know you've made it if everyone hates you. And the absolute jury, that would be the ultimate. That would be the start of the villain arc for me.

The thought of you having to attend a graduation at Oxford or Cambridge. I'd be strolling around Cambridge giving it the fuck. Yeah, my daughter goes there, don't worry about it. What massive nuts swinging about. Oh God. I'd love it. I don't know, I'd want to have a look at the open day first, but you can see though, you get a taste for it

and go, oh, wouldn't it be nice if they went here? And then I could wander around and go, my daughter goes to Cambridge. Oh God, oh God. No, it's intoxicating, Josh. Yeah. Once you get there, your trousers are down, your tickling, your ass. Relief, you didn't's intoxicating, Josh. Yeah. Once you get there, your trousers are down, you're tickling your ass.

It's a relief you didn't do Six Nights, Rob. You needed to get out of there when you did. I love Cambridge, by the way. I'd wander around, there's cows everywhere. There was a nice little river. It's beautiful. I liked it. Well, I'll move to Cambridge, Rob.

I want my daughters to go to Cambridge now. Both of them. Okay. Well, that's good. That's the plan. And I'm going to keep fucking on their case until they do. And I'm going to say to them, if you don't, you're a fucking letdown and a disgrace to the family name.

You've had every opportunity and you've let it slip through your fingers. Shout at them. Do you think that's a good idea? Yeah, I think that would work. Yeah. I think if anything, it'll get them to up the game. Look at Donald Trump. He had that kind of pressure.

Hey, he just sometimes, you know, sees kids these days, got nothing wrong with a bit of bloody hard work and a dream and fair enough the dream's mine, but a dream's a dream. And fair enough the dream's, you know, completely flawed and based purely on ego. Yeah, and then your dad thought of this dream after he'd had two pints of lager at a bar and thought wouldn't mind coming here to visit him every couple of weeks and he'll probably forget about it next week. But at the moment, that's what we're all doing actually. That's the aim. Yeah. And once you're there with your posh friends, you will be ashamed of your dad's voice and you will get, try to get him to change his voice. Because you imagine the boring fucking clever bastards they make friends with. They'll come

around to visit and they go, this is Barnaby. He's doing maths. Oh, fuck off Barnaby. come round to visit and go, this is Barnaby, he's doing maths. Oh, fuck off Barnaby. Little pubeless nerd sat there. Actually, I think I've decided against it. Right. It's Charlie Brooker. This is great by the way. This is Charlie.

Oh, what a man. He's so funny and he's such a legend. So thank you very much, Charlie. Charlie Brooker, welcome to Parenting Hill. Very excited to have you on with both massive fans. Well, thank you. Well, you have to say that, don't you? I mean, it'd be weird.

No, no, I just don't mention it. Sucker fans. No, no, Charlie. I would just say nothing. I interviewed Ed Balls, found out he used to be a politician half way through. I'm a relaxed cat. It's a loose show.

Who did you think he was? Who did you think he was? I thought he presented excellent morning telly. Right, Okay. By the way, I've just peeled a clementine. Yeah, whatever the fuck you want, Charlie. No one cares. It's absolutely fine.

It's not a loud vegetable. If it was like a kind of a Granny Smith that you were going to eat. That would be disgusting. Granny Smith of foul. Do you think? Pink lady, surely. A lot of people have a go at me for liking Granny Smiths. I hate to go A-caster and gamble.

That's on brand for you. Is it? You like old weird shit. I imagine you like penny sweets that are disgusting still, rather than anything tasty. Yeah, I like a cough candy twist as much as an Axe man. What the hell's a cough candy twist? Ah.

Go on Josh, what is it? So when I was a kid, we used to go to the shop and they'd have, you know the sweet, you don't really get it anymore, sweets in quarters. I know exactly what you're talking about. And they were like an Anna C.D. twist sweet that was I think used to clear the sinuses, but I used to like it.

Like a fisherman's friend? Not as extreme as a fisherman's friend. You know what? I got into fisherman's friends recently. Did you? Wow. Yeah, cause it was a thing you try it as a kid and you're like, that is vile. Why would a human inflict that on themselves? And then I think it's one of those things that happens as you get older. There must be some point in your life where you get older and you start liking things like craft beer.

Your taste buds die as you go around life. So you write the older you get you're looking for stronger tastes together I would explain a lot. You know, I mean so fisherman's friends starting to get into olives. Maybe that's a go Oh, yeah famously pungent Flavor explosion that is an olive. Yeah, that does all if I kick don't tell me you can pop one of them back about God What's your Nando's go-to sauce? I'm an extra hot guy. Don't start whipping my dick out early doors, but I like it extra hot. You're a coward. Voser.

Have you not tried the Voser sauce? It's a level above. That's above extra extra hot. So there's like, there's extra hot. Oh wow. Sorry. You can order one. No, it's just you get extra hot.

Then there's extra extra hot. Feel free to replace my dick with your And then above that, but I think it's only in. I don't know that you're allowed to take it off the premises. Dangerous. Is this a new Black Mirror you're trying out? No, I do have a theory about the spice ladder that you climb. Yeah. Do you know, because I used to hate spicy food and then I would

only ever order a Cormor. Yeah. The thing. And that was a little bit much. There was comedy writing rooms like that would run on Nando's. And the first time I ate Nando's, I think I ordered like, it was incredibly hot. I couldn't believe how hot it was. I thought there was something wrong with it. I think lemon and herb to medium is quite a jump.

But then you get your tolerance builds and maybe that actually kills the taste buds you're talking about. Yeah. And then so they've got you hooked on it. And then so you don't get unless it's a sort of punishing, you're sort of sweating and it's and I think that's happening globally, isn't it? That's why structure and things like that are popular. This isn't the spicy sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Whatever you want it to be. I think we're getting older. Being a parent is exhausted and tired. I'm struggling to feel anything at this point. So if I can pop a fisherman's friend in and feel a bit of life again, why not? I'll go and get a fisherman's friend for the next time we record, Rob. Now Charlie, how old are your children, Charlie? My children are 11 and 13. In reverse order, I read them out there.

I do it in reverse order, and people tell me that's because the youngest is my favorite, but I normally go with the youngest and add on two years. That's how I do it. Yes, I think it's easiest to remember if you start with the youngest, because that's the one that's easiest to forget

if you're sort of in their age, I think. Not forget as a human being. The age. Heaven forfeigned you would forget one of your children. So yes, one of them is now. Is that two boys did you say? Yeah, two boys. Yeah. Yeah. So one of them is now a teenager, just sort of thing. I can imagine you're quite a cool dad. You quite like to be. They think I'm an absolute prick. Like they really do. Well, I don't know. Am I a cool dad? I think I am. You're into like computers, games and tech.

You've got a big American Netflix worldwide series. That's pretty cool, isn't it? Well. Teenagers. What you got to do to get some respect? They've only ever seen maybe two episodes, one episode of Black Mirror. They've only seen one of them. And then they sort of couldn't give a shit about that. Again, because they don't really, they're not that into TV.

Like a lot of kids their age, they were really excited. So actually we, in the latest season, we had a cameo from two YouTubers in one of the episodes. We did this USS Callister sequel, and there's like Dan TDM, who's a Minecraft YouTuber, and this other YouTuber called Tommy in it, they were much more excited about that than any of my achievements or anything I've

done ever, I would say they've never watched screen wipe. They've said what they know, they might have shown them a clip of something. I suppose it's mainly partly a thing that they saw their mom on TV at an early age and they saw me on TV. And then like, we're quite good friends with like David Mitchell and Vicky Corrin who like and so they'd seen them on TV. So I think they just think that the television is sort of like a, and then

my sister-in-law is an MP. So they've seen her on TV. So they just think every prick is on television. And also that these people are, you know, when they look at me and Conny, they think, and also these individuals are deeply unimpressive. Yeah. And you name your friends that. I'm going to say if I'm 13 year old boy, and I love the man, but David Mitchell's not a guy that impresses you as a 13 year old boy. Call him a TV guy he's not swaggering with an onto edge. You're not like my dad's got this really cool friend who's in the Shakespeare sitcom. He's not Bruno and Tony early whatever his name is.

I'll tell him you said that. I know if David Mitchell started a like Minecraft channel like Twitch streaming Minecraft channel, which actually, when I say that out loud, that sounds like a brilliant idea, because I'd be really good at that. I would watch that. I'd love to see him do Mark Corrigan, or actually do Mark Corrigan's become a streamer late in life as a spin off to Beep Show. That would actually be good. So, yes, so they would be impressed if that was the case.

But other than that, they're not. Did you find yourself going up to YouTubers saying, could you record a video for my son? So they had actually met Dan TDM. And by the way, so obviously, when I first saw them watching people playing Minecraft on YouTube, my attitude was one of disgust. I walked in and I was like, what the hell? What is this? What are you watching?

Why are you watching this? It's just somebody else. All they're doing, they're a parasite. They're just doing something else. Somebody else's material and then they're just talking. And then I sort of realized that's screen wipe I've just described. So I had to kind of backtrack out of that rant. And then one day I sort of sat down and I realized that they just had this on kind of ambiently

in the background. And I realized, oh, actually, it's quite wholesome. And these people are quite engaging. This is basically radio for them. That's what it is. And so anyway, like several years ago, we got in tickets to see Dan TDM. Was it like Wembley Arena? I'm not aware of Dan TDM. Is he like a nerd kind of or is he like a kind of cool? Do you know what I mean? I would say he's in between because he's like a very he seems like a very nice man. He seems like a very sweet man. He plays,

he's quite wholesome. How old is he? He's had a lot of image changes. He used to have blue hair and now he's 33, he's got blue hair and he's got earrings and he looks pretty cool. Quite a nice wholesome guy. He's got kids, you should have him on. I'd have Dan TDM on in a heartbeat. Yeah, there you go. You should have him on. But he'd sold out Wembley Arena. Wow. What did he do at the show? It was all quite interactive. There was an, you should have him on. But he'd sold out Wembley Arena. Wow. What did he do at the show? It was all quite interactive. There was an app you could download. At one point, so weirdly, this actually

tells you exactly when it was. For nerds out there who know exactly when Super Mario Maker 2 was released for the Nintendo Switch, which I can't quite remember. It was like around then. It sort of culminated in him playing live on stage and projected onto a giant screen like an incredibly difficult level of Super Mario. Which sounds boring. I bet it's quite exciting. Well,

also the tension of that like doing it in front of Wembley Arena and he had like whatever four lives. He did it. He managed to do it. But like, actually it's like watching somebody defuse a bomb. Yeah. Can you imagine if you just fucked it up like four times in a row and you just have to go, sorry, everyone. I bet 12,000 people the atmosphere at that point when he's whatever, jumping over a, you know, turtle shell. And then there's myself and Connie and some other adults there that we were with. Everyone was a bit bemused by all of this. But I did think this is like, oh, it's gonna be nice. And then afterwards they got to meet Dan T.D.

and we in what was probably the highlight of their existences before and since. Do you go to a lot of those things? No, I don't go to any, why would I go to? Well, we sometimes get invited to things, actually probably more, I'm sure I've seen you at one, Josh. I saw you. What was it we were at, a musical?

It was at the snowman musical and I remember turning up and thinking you don't know what because you've got an email right? You get these emails to these. It's like the first night or first morning or whatever and you're like, who's this going to be? But my kids want to go. I don't know. And the first two people I saw were you. Yeah. And Gemma Collins from TOWIE. So you thought where am I in the what's going on here? Are we dealing with it? Yeah. It was very good though. I enjoyed it. It was a good. It was they strung it out, because it's not a full length thing.

No, and they tease you with the walking in the air sequences. Yeah. Is that that's after the interval. Again, it's a spoiler for anyone who doesn't know what happens in The Snowman. But it's fucking sad, isn't it? The book, The Snowman, it's got a harrowing ending. The Snowman makes me cry every, well, not these days, but when I was a kid every year. It shows Gemma Collins has got hidden depth. When you say it makes you cry, okay, did you find, obviously you can't really read The Snowman to your kids because it's pictures. Oh no, I mean the Channel 4 version. I used to watch that every year on Christmas Eve. Right.

And cry. And then go to bed. Oh, I was going to say, well the picture book,, I do remember not really not reading it to my kids, obviously, because there's no words in it, but sort of sitting there at bedtime and then sort of narrating it when they were young, like, oh, look at how he's doing this. And I had never read the picture book

and I'd forgotten what happens at the end of the cartoon. And when the snowman is basically dead, like this boy's friends, it just sort of ends with that, doesn't it? Just ends and the snowman is melted away. And I cried because I wasn't anticipating that. And I'm trying to explain to like, I'm sort of saying, then they're flying in the air, walking in the air, you could say. And then I got to the end. And there's a weird thing, isn't it? That's the thing that children seem to do to you is cause you to experience emotion. Yeah. Yeah.

Which may have not been the case. Yeah. Ha ha ha. Prior to that, in your life. And I don't know how long that, how long does that last? That sort of emotional afterglow. There was definitely a point after just after they'd been born when I couldn't, I could no longer watch sort of horror films

or even sort of documentaries about bad things happening. Yeah, I struggle a bit now. Well, now I could, you could fucking sit me in front of anything. I could probably watch, now I'm back to sort of, I'll watch true crime documentaries to relax. Yeah, there was an article you once wrote that you probably didn't stick with you at all. But some you know how sometimes things just stick with you about how you could never have a pet, a dog, because you knew that you couldn't deal with the dog dying. And the whole thing isn't worth it, because you can't deal with that end. I'd get preemptively sad.

And children, that's like that times 206. Yeah, I'm going to say that was that you before kids in a kind of protected off. I can't recall because I still wouldn't. We don't have pets. We don't have pets. Now, I did grow up with cats and dogs in the house. I'm more of a cat person than a dog person. But we had both when I was growing up. I had a cat and eventually it died and that was quite sad, but I was a student and I was away at the time. So it was a little bit at one remove. My parents rang me up and said, your cat's dead.

So I think I was stoned and it was a real downer. I was playing a computer game. I was probably playing Sonic the Hedgehog or something. Stoned out my head in the student flat and my parents rang up and said, your cat's dead. I was playing a computer game. I was probably playing Sonic the Hedgehog or something. Stoned out my head in the student flat and my parents rang up and said, your cat's dead. I still wouldn't, partly because Connie doesn't like pets, and therefore lied whenever she was on Blue Peter, evidently. I was standing dogs and cats.

I think she'd happily ring their necks. She thought so she thinks they're dirty. Which she got a point. Animals walk around with their bums out, she thinks they're dirty. What? Which she's got a point. Yeah. Animals walk around with their bums out, don't they? And sort of like, I'm gonna say they're children. Don't they say like, they're very clean cats, aren't they? People often say, cause they lick themselves,

but obviously that's- Yeah, but licking your own ass, does that make you clean? Your ass is clean, what's happening with your mouth? I know, I think they're fastidious rather than clean, aren't they? They're fastidiously licking their own bumholes constantly. I've never thought about that. Do you think they're getting something out of it that isn't just...

Oh, what? Do you think that's a sexual pleasure? Or taste? Maybe it's an all-round experience. It's like a fisherman's friend. You're looking for the next time. It's weird though. When you mentioned a cat licking its ass, you two got horny and I got hungry. That's where our minds go. Yeah. Wow. Do you think depending on what they've eaten it would taste different? Oh I think you can tell I think

the angle of their leg tells you how they're feeling about it because sometimes. Oh some have got the leg right up. I read once what poo tastes like. Oh, yeah. That sounds like someone who's eating poo but doesn't want to admit it directly. No, I read it. I read that apparently it tastes like whatever you ate, but chard.

Oh. Oh, wow. That's horrific. Yeah. I quite like chard. I want to see that on Bear Grylls. You should do a black mirror on that, a Bear Grylls where he just, he's lost his mind,

but he's still out there and he just keeps having a breakdown. Well, eat this raw meat when it comes out, it will be lovely. Cooked shit now. Cooked, it'll be like, I reckon it's ready now. I'll blast it out over a leaf. You get those people that drink their own urine, don't you?

Cause I think it's health, but has health benefits. That's mental. You do get those folk. Hang on, urine, don't you? Because I think it has health benefits. That's mental. You do get those folk. Hang on, we've wandered off the top. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I blame myself for bringing it up.

You brought the cat's ass into this. I asked about whether your attitude to pets, whether that was beforehand, and now you've opened up emotionally from the whole childhood. I think now, because we live in London, and so I would worry like a cat, because also our kids, our eldest loves cats. I would worry that because you always see,

in my neighborhood, I'm always seeing lost cat posters. The other day I saw a dead cat on the side of the road. That was really upsetting. I hadn't seen one of those for a long time. Oh my God. Sorry, I'm really, it's a real doubt of this, isn't it? I mean, I thought it's a slight reprieve from eating your own shit, but you're still not ideal.

Maybe it wasn't looking at what was, the car must have hit it because it was digging in there chewing away. Least it died happy. It died happy. Focus on the road, get out of your ass. That's what I was saying to my cat. I mean, it suddenly thought, wow, I've hit some erogenous flavor zone and now I'm seeing stars. And actually what it was was a bus going through its head.

We'll go back to you sort of not being able to have a talk because of your emotions. The thing is though, with kids, like, you know, unless you're incredibly unlucky and it's horrific, like you will die before your children. That's how life sort of works. So there's a less risk than you'd know. If you're getting a dog that in 10 to 15 years, you've got to

deal with that. You're buying your ticket to dig in that dog's grave. Yes, what you're doing, you will be there. There's no doubt about it. I'm turning around to the kids and saying, I'm very sorry, but you know, being key, shuffled office, whatever is dead. Do you want to say goodbye to him? Get a big box? Sorry, why am I describing a dog stealing on us? Making me quite sad.

Let's get back on track. Have you ever licked your own ass? No, no. No, have I tried? So with your kids, you are a sillier person than people realize you are. I mean, that as a compliment. Thank you.

But people see you as kind of cynical and putting out these kind of dark scripted things and also, you know, screen wipes got that kind of caustic edge. Yes. Are you a silly parent? Do you think? I think I am. Well, yes, people assume they made me not incorrectly because obviously my public persona when I've presented shows

or when I've written things, I'm extremely what you might call an angry, disappointed, judgmental cunt. And so you couldn't maintain that in real life. That would be insufferable. So I'm definitely goofier generally in everyday life than that sort of on-screen persona, I suppose. And so I'm definitely more of a laid-back person, but I can get super judgmental about things.

It's weird because I remember when me having kids like coincided with me basically also deciding to stop writing a column and things like this, I think Around the same time and you'd get some people going. Oh, what a shame. He's mellowed. He's lost Fuck you. What am I your little fucking personal jester? Continually empty and angry life to your amusement you fucking little emperor continually empty and angry life to your amusement. Do you fucking little emperor. Fuck off. Do you know what I mean?

Like, what sort of entitled fucking piece of shit would think that? When you do get there, like, people go, oh, he's mellow. Well, you do mellow a bit when you've got kids, I think, or you should. You probably fucking should. But no, I'm definitely I'm probably a stupid. I like I'm constantly sort of like, I'm definitely, I'm probably a stupid, like I'm constantly sort of, like, I don't know, do you have weird, do you have like weird sort of in jokes that you do with your kid, like stupid things you say constantly to them?

I used to constantly say to them things like, oh, it was just on the news, these scientists have said that your bum smells so bad that people on Mars are complaining that your bum stinks. So is this when you as a kid or now with your kids? Now! Now I say to them now! How old were they at this point? Six?

Yeah. Seven? But I still sometimes say things like that to them. All the time, I'll just sort of like. I do it all the time. We go past this petrol station and on it is a weird photo of like a school kid winning a race and he's a bit blonde. It's like a weird photo to have on the side of a garage.

Anyway, and I go, oh, that's actually me that is. Cause they've seen me on posters for something. That's actually me when I was a kid, like that. And when they were really young, I was like, oh, was it? And then they started telling everyone. And then they drove past it with their mom and she's like that's not dad like that And then that isn't your day is me and I've sort of completely Will not like give in and admit that it's not me and it's a fun little game

We play but it's fun to be silly with them I think you want that though because you want the kids I grew up in a house where being Silly or not taking things seriously was important, you know what I mean? You want that sign of disrespect to authority slightly, don't you? I think. I mean, the problem is that then, you know, they turn it back on you and it's at a point where it's infuriating. I don't know how many times I've said, like, can you get your shoes on with... Oh, God.

Is that still happening now? Yes. At 13. Okay, less so with the 13 year old. Right. He'll be more like doesn't want to go out or like he's starting to get a bit moody about things. Yeah. So what age do you have to teach them to shave? I don't know. With my daughters, ideally never. He's got a bit of bum fluff sort of starting. That's his decision though, isn't it?

Because he now goes to secondary school. And I was like outside his school the other day, like waiting to like pick him up. There was a kid walked out with a full beard. Oh, God. Which I don't think I recall seeing when I was at secondary school. I don't remember children with a full beard.

They weren't cool as well at the time. I can't grow one. Frustrating. Yeah. How far do you time. I can't grow one, frustrating. How far do you get? I get, it's patchy, do you know what I mean? So it looks like... Alopecia, no. You know that shrubbery you get on a train set?

You know that kind of... It's a very specific, that sexy stuff. Yeah. Like moss. Like moss, it looks like Apache moss. Right. And it's just not ideal. I pubed up really late. Okay guys, I'm going to come clean to you now.

I pubed up late. So, bum, fluff and beard for me was like quite stressful. And I remember I got like a shaving set, a Simpson shaving set when I was like 17. Official branded, what, the Simpsons? Yeah, it was really sort of like... What, I was in Bart and Homer? Yeah, yeah. What, razors? Yeah, like on the actual thing, right? So, and I remember doing it, but I had nothing to do.

So I just, I remember cutting my face a bit, because I didn't know what I was doing. And I didn't want to ask my dad, because he might have gone, you don't need to fucking shit, you know that? So I'd recommend they do them in like weight trays, like little electric ones, like little buzzers, just charge it up.

And you could just say to him, oh mate, you see that little bit there, if you just want to trim that with that, you can. And he's not going in with a razor. You don't need the razor early. like little buzzers just charge it up and you could just say to him, oh mate, you see that little bit there? If you just want to trim that with that, you can. And he's not going in with a razor. You don't need the razor early. But what if he's trying to grow it and he's feeling-

He thinks it's full. Yeah, and I think you've got to let them come to you on this one, haven't you? Well, he did ask me, but I thought I took the view that it wasn't ready yet. So you just walked out. That would be the most manly thing you could do, isn't it? Like teach your son to shave.

He has a stand there, point in one hand, razor in the other. Let's go. Come on. Well, I think I said to my dad once, I need to keep teaching him to shave. He went, for that you just need a cat and a saucer of milk. And I was like, what's that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean?

You put the milk on your face and the cat will just lick it off because it's so crap bearded. Again, that sounds like a sexual thing isn't it? If you want the cat to lick your face you rub cat bum juice all over your face. Wipe a cat's arse on your face and let it go to work. Try to keep it away from there. But that is a difficult thing when they're teenagers though to go that like oh I can show you if you want it because you don't want to upset them or stress them but it's a bit of a tightrope you're on at the moment. I suppose that I am a sort of goofy dad. I'm trying again, you learn what not to do, I think quite early on, or you sort of like, I'm still haunted by like, you want to not take things too

seriously. I'm still slightly haunted by when our eldest when he was really young, maybe five, I don't know, he had a scooter. Yeah, one of those three wheeled ones that, you know, you'd have to be an idiot to fall off sort of thing. Again, I don't know, he had a scooter. One of those three wheeled ones that, you know, you'd have to be an idiot to fall off sort of thing. Again, I think he wasn't putting his shoes on or something like this, we were gonna go somewhere, he wasn't putting his shoes on. And I really lost it.

You know, he'd done something really wrong. And I said, I'm gonna take, if you don't, I'm gonna take this scooter, I'm gonna throw it in the bin. That's right. And then he did whatever it was. He did the thing that he wasn't meant to do. He was doing something. I, he called it a bluff. I went up to the bin and I flipped the bin open

and I held the scooter over it. And then he suddenly went, no, no, no. And I thought, oh, my God, I'm Darth Vader. I'm an absolute, oh, my God, I'm a bastard. I'm like somebody you write about in a harrowing memoir. And so I had to sort of put the scooter down and go, I'm so sorry. I would never, of course cause I would never do that. And so I think that was like one of the first times I really thought, Oh my God, I've got terrible power. Oh, you could totally be Voldemort

if you're a lot of people are a lot of people are a lot of people are so you never want to be that source of trauma in your own children's lives. And he's sort of our youngest when he had his first, not his first birthday party, he wasn't one, but as in his first, so the first time he had a birthday party that was sort of, I think he must've been five, something like this, it was at our house and loads of like some of his school friends and stuff came around. And I was put in charge of doing musical statues. So I was having to play music in, I was doing musical statues. And the kids had all just arrived and I didn't know.

Were you judging it as well as playing music? I was judging it and doing the music. This was the problem. Wow. I'm like, stop starting the music. Difficult to be looking and stop starting the music as well, that's a... Well, I mean, come on.

What, how incompetent are you? Like it's just playing off a phone. It's just one thumb. Charlie, Josh would get a whole episode out of him panicking doing musical statues up next week if he had to do it. I wouldn't step up for that. Well, the problem is that what I hadn't thought about going into that situation was so you're playing music, they're all dancing around, then I cause it and they stop and they're all like loads then I pause it and they stop.

And they're all like loads of them are wobbling. And I think, oh shit, I've got to eliminate one of them. Who do I eliminate? And so I sort of said, look, because they're all wobbling, I was like, look, that was a test run, but like you're really not meant to wobble. He's bottled it, he's bottled it from the off.

So we start again and I pause it. So that's when the centre back goes for a penalty in a penalty shoot. Well, and I pause it. So when the center back goes for a penalty in a penalty shootout. Well, and I saw this girl wobbled and then my son wobbled. And I thought, I don't really know this girl and I don't really like, and so I thought, well, maybe the thing to do, the diplomatic thing to do here is to eliminate my own child so I don't look biased.

So I said, I'm very sorry, Huxley, that's his name. I'm very sorry, Huxley, you. Child. So I don't look biased. So I said, I'm very sorry, Huxley. That's his name. I'm very sorry, Huxley. You wobbled. And as the words left my mouth, I thought, oh, that was the wrong decision. Because he was crushed. It was his birthday. His dad eliminates him. He's the first out of the game. He started wailing with a pain that I couldn't. And the injustice because the girl did wobble. Exactly. He wasn't like, and he walked out, he stormed out of the room and he sat at the bottom of the stairs, like inconsolable, but weeping and crying.

And I don't think either of us have actually got over that. And can I ask, did you follow or did you? Oh no, I forgot the game. I really, like my responsibilities were jettisoned. I followed after but you can't really, to a kid that young, you can't really, you know, I was like apologizing profusely, but that was probably even more confusing. Yeah. Because it's like, why did you do that, dad? Yeah. And I still get like cold sweats thinking about that. Has he ever brought it up? No.

If you went to him now and said, do you remember like, do you think that was funny or do you think that was, do you think it comes into his mind as much as it comes into yours or is that the kind of? I don't know. I don't know that it does. But again, you sort of think with something

like that, you think, has that gone in like wood grain? Is that in some way? Do you like, are you... Because we used to, our youngest, we used to call him It Follows. Not to him. I don't know if you've seen the film It Follows. No, I haven't. It's a very good horror film where it's basically, where's Wally the horror film? And if you watch it, you'll understand what I mean by that, which sounds baffling if you do. But you know what? I'm not into horror, but that sounds like my kind.

It's that sounds like my kind of horror. But basically you get sort of followed by these things that are walking after you. And he used to follow Connie around the house all the time when he was like, really, so he was sort of a real mummy's boy in that respect. He just sort of no matter what room she went into, he'd sort of find her and walk in like this. And you sort of think is that have I added to that bit of brain chemistry that makes you. So you think he was like that because of the musical statues incident?

Yeah, I don't think it would have helped. He might be a human rights lawyer though. So Mark, but you know, he's really hates injustice. So he's going to dedicate his life to it. But it's awful, isn't it? Knowing that you can't, no matter what you do, you are going to have moments like that where you're holding a scoop over a bin, or you're eliminating your kid from where you've... They only have about 20 key memories or whatever. And you're like, well, that's two.

That's 10%. So you are thinking, however much I try, there will be things that I fuck up here. I remember when I was, I think about three or four, one of my earliest memories, my dad was building an extension. He fell off the ladder. He was on a roof. He landed in a big of big bag of cement

which burst and covered me in powder. And I was crying and screaming. And I remember that, well, I want a fucking selfish bastard. But yes, so you can't sort of help, but do things like that. It's sort of alarming. That's just life though, isn't it? But then you learn from that

and then it's character building as well. Like you don't set out to do it, but if that does occur... I mean, you could as a weird experiment if you were like some odd... Like something you get in a film who raises an assassin or something by like hitting them with a stick and teaching them to shoot at targets. Have you played musical statues since? No. So weirdly, so again, I was just always left with the impression that very much I was the booby prize parent. So I think you as a dad, I think you feel like the booby prize. And then I remember he had to have he had a tooth that was like, like a molar that was

stuck behind the baby tooth. Like it was something like this where there was a tooth that wouldn't come out. Yeah, he had to have like, like a full blown and it's like an operation to remove it. And they said to him, not full anesthetic totally knocked out. Right. And so they said, sorry, Charlie, what age I think he will have been, I'm gonna say, eight, because they're aware of what's going on there. Yeah, he was totally aware of what was going on. And he was asked, who do you want to go in with you? And he chose me. And I was like really touched by that. Yeah. And then they take

him into a little room and they handed him weirdly, I've just mentioned it, but they handed him a copy of Where's Wally? Yeah. The Anecetist is getting this stuff ready. And I think they just put like, it was like gas or something. I think. But anyway, what I remember is they said to him, keep looking at the book. Can you see if you could spot Wally? And he goes, there he is. And they go, well done now, but can you spot what's the other one? Odlaw, you know, or whatever.

Odlaw and Wilbur and this like all the spin-off Wallies that they're hiding in there. And then they basically do something. And then he suddenly, like, I don't know if you've ever seen a child unethetized, suddenly just in the blink of an eye, he goes from fully conscious to like, like that. And I immediately cried. And then the nurses or whatever sort of said, Oh, sorry, yeah, we should have warned you. Yeah, everyone cries. Don't worry. Oh, my God. But I do remember thinking, Oh, I think the wound of the musical statues must have healed if you actually chose me as your appropriate adult in that situation.

Unless he was hoping you were going to send him out of the room and let someone else do it, like in the previous film. Eliminated from the operation, out you get. We should talk about Black Mirror. Of course. Of course. Absolutely. On Netflix. Of course. Absolutely. On Netflix, I mean, they say now,

obviously it's on Netflix now, the new series. And it takes a long time to make these series, doesn't it? Oh, it does. One of the reasons why there's often gaps in between is because this season took about 18 months, something like that. I mean, because you're, because each one is different and because each one-

Yeah, you have to go back to the start for every single episode. So it's sort of like doing pilots. It's like doing a pilot after a pilot after a pilot, because you have to cast it, you different directors, you know, you don't have anything, you've got to build all the sets, you don't have anything. So you're sort of starting, it's the least economical way.

And is that your whole life work-wise for like 18 months? Nearly entirely, but then at the same time we did Diane Morgan, Kunkon Life special. I can't believe when I look back, I used to be, I think it was like 2012 or no, 2015. So that was the most insane year ever where I did, I think I did a series of 10 o'clock live. I did an end of year wipe show. I did an election wipe show. And we were doing season three of Black Mirror. And I think something else. I can't remember the line.

And I had two young kids at the time. I cannot quite comprehend how I had any energy or time to do that. You were making a lot of misjudgments in the parenting due due to time, you stood over a bin with a bike. Fuck them. Yeah, you wobbled. Get out of fucking your wobbly fired from this game. You know how busy I am? I'm not fucking wobbling.

Get your head in the game. Do you want to win or not? You fucked it up. Happy birthday. Yeah, it's your first party. You fucking ruined it with your wobbling. You're not even crying properly. You you fucking put your back into it. But yeah, so it does take a long time. It does take a long time.

We often ask people, because it's like one of the big parenting questions at the moment, like if they've got young teenagers, like what the attitude is with phones and stuff. But for you, obviously, in a weird way, it's heightened because your main kind of existence work wise is about kind of these scripts about dystopian technology. Again, in the episodes, I think actually the technology is is neutral and usually has to be portrayed as amazing because otherwise, why would the characters be using it and it's like, yeah, I'm very much I know video't know, video games, I'll sort of buy

every single console that comes out. And I sort of try and keep up with what's going on. And I'll sort of be playing, constantly playing something or other. And so I always encouraged the kids, I would actively encourage them to play video games, because I think they're good for your brain, ultimately. But smartphones and things like that is again our eldest has no interest whatsoever in having one. He hasn't even asked for one. Oh my god that's good isn't it?

At his school smartphones are all banned officially at the school like that and they have been for since he started going to that secondary school. But as you can see, if you're standing outside you can see kids, by the way sorry if you can hear drilling, but that sounded like farting. It wasn't. I'm just saying. Well, that's the perfect cover. Well, show me the drill and I'll believe you. As soon as you see kids coming out to school, they're all sort of immediately reaching in

their pockets or, you know, pulling out smartphones at all. Probably just watching Andrew Tate. Yeah. So when it's banned, does that mean? As in they're banned, they're officially banned at the school. They're not allowed them. And they're officially, if they get caught with one,

it's confiscated until the end of that term. Oh, wow. So it's quite hardcore. Yeah. And he's actually not asked for one. Weirdly, he's really into gadgets and phones and sort of things like that and kind of playing with them, but he's not fussed about the, I guess the social aspect of kids being in WhatsApp groups or Discord.

Connecting with people, because that's the thing, they don't want to be missing out on what the group's up to, but if he's not bothered about the group as such. He's sort of not fussed about it. Again, he's very sociable and he's very sort of kind of funny and sort of smart. He's just not, it's interesting because me and Connie keep having conversations about this where sometimes I'm like, I can't work out if it's good. He doesn't seem to feel any peer pressure whatsoever, which I think is amazing.

That's like a superpower. If you're 13, you're not actually aware of peer pressure. It's amazing. You walk through that matrix without even touching you. That's like a fucking gift. But on the other hand, I'm like, but should he be, should he be in a WhatsApp group where they're all just praising Andrew Tate and doing, I don't know, drug deals or whatever the hell, happy slapping is happy slapping still.

I don't think so. What do they call it now? They probably call it something else. Yeah. You're desperate for him to get an ASBO. That's what you're looking for. Just smoke a little bit of weed or something. You do county dines, or whatever they call it. I shouldn't be running drugs over. Our youngest, who is now in his last year at primary school, asks for a sort of phone about every day and says all his

friends have got one. He wants a YouTube channel. He wants a phone. He wants the phone so that he can use WhatsApp and Discord. Right. So he brings that up on a daily basis. And again, once I saw, so you use the PlayStation, I got an email saying, Oh, you've something you put on the PlayStation network has been flagged. Oh God.

And I was like, what's this? And it's because he was trying to give his email address to one of his friends. And I thought, again, you want to check that he's not, do you know what I mean? It's not anyway. So go in there and have a look. And it's actually they're all just then I can see this sort of chat that they were all having. One of his mates was complaining about somebody had invited a girl along to play Fortnite or whatever it was. And it was because this friend of his liked this girl and she wasn't interested. And he posted bros before hoes.

So I thought, right, I've got to do it. I'm going to give him a minute. So did he write it or one of his friends? No, one of his friends had written it. So I lied and I said, did you know that all the chats, anything that you put in the PlayStation Network just pops up on my phone in the app. I'll happily play the state surveillance card. So I said, did you know I can sort of see it? And like this bros before hoes, I don't like that.

I don't think that's nice language and it's not. And I could immediately say he was incredibly sort of mortified and feeling secondhand shame. But again, I sort of feel like the minute we hand him a smartphone, he'll be off in a WhatsApp group. You won't be able to get into it. You won't be able to sit, you won't be able to do. I don't know about you, have you got like parental spyware stuff installed on your kids' devices?

My kids are too young for it to matter at this stage. They're on iPads with like, they can only access stuff that's age appropriate basically. It's sort of a quite rigid, but not not any spy. What spy were you talking, what do I need to get? Well, I used this one, or I did use this one called Custodio with a Q, and you install it on their devices and it tells you, it not just blocks stuff, but it tells you if they've searched for something inappropriate, stuff like this. Because I do remember one of them once said to me, something right inappropriate stuff like this. Because I do remember one of them once said to me, oh, that's a basically asked me what an erection was. Right. And so I thought, okay,

let's be the sentiment. So I said, I explained exactly what it is. And I said, it's very private. And it's the thing that you know, blow up. And there was like, why do you know? Where have you and it was like somebody at school had said it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's right. And I said, you must know what it is. And he went, Yeah, and I sort of said he's like, very, that's right. He said he knew but he wanted to check. And then anyway, about five minutes later, the app goes ding, and he searched erection

meaning. Because it is blocked everything, it will have just given him results sort of saying, like buildings, really confused and probably thought I was... That's good in a way, though, because traditionally, they would just keep asking their parents stuff. But if you can search internet, it's good that you're getting these notifications, because you're aware of where their brains go.

And even if you've got the age limit on it. But then one of them had worked out a way around it. That was the other thing. One of them had worked out a way around it. The eldest had worked out a way around it really quickly. Because again, because all these fucking things, like you can set up parental controls on Apple, round it. That was the other one of the worked out way round it. The oldest has worked out a way round it really quickly. Because again, because all these fucking things like you can set up parental controls on Apple, but if they're using an Android

device, it doesn't work or the other way around. Like, actually, you can easily circumvent all the it seems all the Apple parental controls, just be if the kid installs Chrome on their MacBook or whatever, because he's got like a laptop he does his homework on. Oh,'re like, oh, fucking hell. But again, I snuck on there and had a look and there was nothing that's gonna find anything untoward. But you feel like an investigator. Yeah, I get to being James Bond like sneaking

into a room when they're not there and logging on to a computer and sort of rifling to it. What have I become? I know it's terrifying, isn't it is like is like I know I'm sure every generation the parents thought that the next generation had these things that were gonna. I'm sure my parents are thinking he's spending so much time on the computer and all that. But older people were worried about a house phone rather than one at the end of the street which would be different to the internet. When I was a kid the only computers were like you know I had a ZX Spectrum so I'm older than you guys and so there was never any computer connected to the internet. When I was a kid, the only computers were like, I had a ZX Spectrum, whatever. So I'm older than you guys.

And so there was never any computer connected to the internet. And it would have been, I'm of a generation where the only pornography you saw was in Bush's. Yeah. Magazines thrown. I don't know if, we were at the tail end of that generation. I've heard about that.

Yeah. I've never witnessed it. I've seen this hard as I tried. In the village where I grew up, there was a place that we called Chippings Dump, right, which I thought was a place called Chippings Dump. It turned out as where, you know, some road chippings that they put down. I think drivers would dump them for the council or whatever, and then come and pick them up.

And we discovered as adolescent teenage boys, if we went down there, these truck drivers had thrown out copies of like Mayfair and Penthouse and men only. So have they done that as a public duty or just to get rid of it? Well it's like, again, why is it? There was a thing, I think there was a thing in the sort of 80s, 70s and 80s of like pornography thrown in bushes and I can still remember once like, again, must have been about 13, I'm in for some friends are walking through a park and found about eight pornographic

magazines in a bush. Oh my god. That was like the best day of our lives. Well maybe we should start reintroducing it. It was like Indiana Jones finding sort of treasure and then these copies of these magazines would be passed around and sort of circulated amongst the sort of teenage boy community and people would be the custodian of the pornographic magazine.

This was before Antibac as well. Well, I remember one of my friends was the custodian of the pornographic magazines once. We went around his house and we're like, where are they? Where are they? Oh, they've found a brilliant hiding place for them. You'll never guess where it is and my mum hasn't found them or whatever. I was like, all right. Then later I went to the loo in his house and in the corner of the room, there was a very, it was a carpeted bathroom. It was a very, very obvious

big lump under a carpet, which you lifted up and there were about five pormas. And I thought, she knows exactly where they are. She's just obviously clearly too embarrassed to confront you. Anyway, why did I get onto that? What I'm saying is that was the golden. I would have been mortified if like I turned around from the bush where you found the pornography and my parents are standing there. What have you just done? I've just seen the computers just alerted me that you've looked at a bush. You've just chiseled into woodchippings. You've just found this. Again, is it harmful for them to be aware that there's the sort of parental surveillance going on constantly of everything they're doing? Because you like,

but again, that's all part and parcel of again, as you get older, where you have to sort of let go of them. Yeah. I don't know. The first time one of them walked home from school on their own was terrifying. Oh my God. How far is it? 24 miles.

No, no, it's like, no, it is actually a bit of a distance. I was, I was meant to be publicizing my show and I wandered off the topic. Sorry, sorry. Sorry. What a show that is. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Black Mirror on Netflix. What a show that is. So much parenting in that. Yeah.

Let's climax with talking about Black Mirror. Yeah. Which is, it started on Channel 4 and now it's one of the biggest shows on Netflix. And you've got a kind of strange double career where you are the kind of, people in Britain know you as this kind of cumulatively guy that wrote the Guardian articles and the screenwriters, but you're also a kind of auteur of these kind of great TV shows to Americans.

Does it feel like the hit that it is, if you know what I mean? It's really weird because you don't know again, because I'm most of the time, I'm either when we're doing the show, it's like it is all encompassing. And so you're because I get I'm across all aspects of it. So I'm writing it, obviously, sometimes co writing it, but I'm writing it, then I'm on set, not all the time, but a lot of the time, my favorite bit is the edit. Yeah, but you're sort of you are like, it's, it's completely all consuming while it's happening. But you're not really aware outside of that of the context, the wider context. And I remember, occasionally, I've had things that I went to an event, I was invited to an event in Brazil, I went to Brazil, and there was a sort of thing we were doing as some publicity thing, you go to some sort of theater, and it was packed full of Black Mirror fans and you're like,

oh, that's, that's weird, isn't it? But I can go to Brazil and there's all these people. But it's also very anonymous because being the writer of something, obviously, when you're doing stuff on screen, people know who you are or they call you a cunt in the street or whatever. But when you're the writer of something, you still get people going, Oh, I preferred Black Mirror when it was written by British people and not Americans. And they'll almost say that to me. You're like, you know, I've been there, it's still me. But it's weird, because again, I'm sort of in, you know, if I'm in writing mode, then it's so insular. You're sort

of indoors just typing. And then you go out and you go, oh, this is quite odd. The first time I really noticed how weird things were, I think it was something like Hillary Clinton used the phrase black mirror in some. Wow. Like probably to go, oh, you know, Trump and his superiors always take something from an episode of Black Mirror.

I thought that's really weird. Have you had major Hollywood people kind of go to you? This is- What do you mean by major Hollywood people? Any pinch me moments where something's come up to or messaged you or emailed you, and you've gone, fucking hell, this has gone far. Yes, like you've had, you see like,

I once had dinner with Kanye West, that's an answer. Yes. Genuinely. Not recently though. No. And he put me on the phone to Kim Kardashian at one point. Wow. What did you say to Kim Kardashian on the phone?

So he said, oh, Kim's a big fan of the show. Yeah. We did this episode called Nosedive, which was like all about like, he said, that's her favorite one. Yeah. That's one way it's Bryce Dalatow and everyone's writing everything out of fire. So then like Kim Kardashian rings him, he passes the phone to me and I'm, Kim Kardashian's on there and I went, Oh, hello. And she went, Hi, do you know someone who can talk to me? And then I said, Oh, I do this show, Black Mirror.

She went, right. And I went, you know, well, apparently you liked the episode and I described it. Oh God. She just went, I have not seen that. Well, anyway, I'll just pass you back to Kanye now. Also, I do love the fact that that Kim Kardashian Kanye West anecdote was interrupted by a drill. Oh yeah, sorry about that. It's a perfect for our podcast. That's what we love. How normal it is.

So occasionally something surreal like that will happen where I was introduced to Steven Spielberg at a party. So occasionally you have sorts of moments like that. But you know, again, it's like when you're in, when you do stuff in TV to start with, it's a real novelty, isn't it? Yeah. And I remember when you, before you'd sort of done anything like that, you'd, if you saw a famous person in the street, it was really odd, wasn't it? It was like watching something that had been photoshopped into your world that

didn't belong. It was like watching a sort of robot walk around or something. I remember once when I was a student, just walking down the street and seeing Simon Bates, the radio, like it's radio one DJ, Simon Bates. And I sort of shouted at my friend, he's Simon Bates and the radio, being like radio one DJ, Simon Bates. And I sort of shouted at my friend, Simon Bates, and he's much fatter than he looks. Well, something like that without thinking. And then I think Simon Bates heard. But I thought I felt bad.

Yeah. But then I remember going to a Radio Times party or something like that. And it was like your television being sick and suddenly there were like famous people in the room. And so it's weird how quickly you get sort of used to that. And it was like your television being sick and suddenly there were like, famous people in the room. And so it's weird how quickly you get sort of used to that. So I suppose that sort of thing happens occasionally, where you meet a very powerful or famous person, and then struggle to think of an interesting thing to say to them.

What did you say to Spielberg? What do you say to Steven Spielberg? So I sort of love ET. You just go on, you know, you're great. I love Jaws. He talked to me and he'd seen Black Mirror. That was also quite mad. And he talked to me a bit about how difficult it is doing anthology shows because he produced amazing stories or something like this. So it was like suddenly I was like on a level. You're like, oh, who's this guy? Yeah, I sort of talk down to him in 10 minutes time. Yeah, whatever. Off you go, Spielberg.

Yeah, little needy prick. All right, mate, it's hard. Get over it. You must know how to do it by now. It was John Hamm again. So John Hamm introduced me to him, came up to me at this party and went, because he'd been in a black mirror, John Hamm. Yeah.

And he said to me, what would you say to Steven Spielberg? And I went, I don't know. And he went, well, think fast, because here he is and turned me round. But it was sort of like, oh my God. But it is again, in those moments, you feel like, again, I'm now 54, and I think you still feel like, you still don't really feel like an adult in those situations. Do you know what I mean?

You still slightly feel like you've been let into that room by accident and you're one step away from fucking up and sort of saying something really stupid or that Steven Spielberg is going to think you're a moron. Maybe he did think I was a moron. Well, if we have more and more say, have you ever met Charlie Brooker? And he'll go, I have not seen that. Because again, you're also aware if you go to sort of Hollywood and you meet that people will literally sort of shake your hand and look

you in the eye and go this script is brilliant And by the time you're walking across the car lot You've got an email go there. Hey, they're passing and they never see you again But I don't walk around like people always say sometimes because I'm quite reclusive. I think by accident you can hear that dry apologize Apologizing it's a different blow. I'm you can see I'm not drilling exactly your black and Decker workbench out and you're putting together a cupboard while you do this interview. That would be unacceptable. I'd respect it. It is odd. It's an odd job. But it's an odd thing to have done. But you don't really think about it. Sometimes I bump into people who go, Oh, do you live in Los

Angeles now? Yeah, no, no. Why would I do that? And also like, no, because we filmed the show in Britain for one thing, almost all of it, but also they're particularly like Los Angeles when I've been there. And I don't go that often either. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not, they don't strike me as your people, the people of Los Angeles. It's not like they're not like nasty, but it's just like, weirdly, I was there earlier this year and I saw the most just like weirdly, I was there earlier

this year and I saw the most disturbed. I was in the back of an Uber and I looked out of the window and I saw a sort of homeless camp in a place where I think five years ago, there wouldn't have been one and trundling past it was one of these autonomous delivery robots that look a bit like a mini fridge on wheels with a chirpy name like sort of, hello, I'm Henry. It's a bit like a mini fridge on wheels with a chirpy name, like sort of, hello, I'm Henry. It's a bit like a Henry the Hoover type sort of thing. And I looked and thought that's quite a fucking black mirror, isn't it? And so that side of things, it feels increasingly dystopian there in a way. They just had the fires, so the place just all

burnt down. And then there's like, that side of things is increasingly depressing. You've got your family here now anyway as well. You don't want to uproot the kids to go and write in another building. You know what I mean? I was a writer in this school. No, although again, our youngest spent so long watching YouTube, he sort of says things like store.

Oh really? Instead of shop. I do get cross about that. We do not say apartment. What's a semester? I don't know what you're talking about. Sidewalk. Yeah. It's called a? I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, it's called a pavement.

What are you series or season now? Well, you see, no, you know, I have to say I've started saying season. But then the way I understand it, series is the overall thing. And then season is the season. I don't know, rather than saying, yeah, so I've started saying season. But I think we started saying that before we were on Netflix, I'm trying to remember. I've started saying special instead of DVD.

And I know I'm 10 years too late. What, as in standup special? Recording your standup special. When was the last time anyone handled a DVD? He's on Anna Seed Sweets, Charlie, he lives in the past. I live in the past. I've moved to special from DVD, season from series. He's only just moved over from VHS.

So you never even went Blu-ray. You jumped straight to... I went straight to special. Joshua would have come in Blu-ray. Blu-rays weren't a thing, were they? Because no one needs to hear the director's commentary on your special. No, no, exactly. Charlie, Black Mirror's out now. It is.

All of it on Netflix? For ages. All of it's on Netflix apart from, exactly. Charlie, Black Mirror's out now. It is. All of it on Netflix? For ages. All of it's on Netflix apart from, unknowingly, they've just been taking down their interactive ones. So we did an interactive one a few years ago. That's no longer there. As of today. As of today.

First time anyone's depromo'd something. Yeah, so fuck it. You can't see that. But you can see all the others, and you should. And you should click on them. You should watch them. And then you should apparently click the, like, you can click a double thumbs up. And apparently that is a genuinely important metric. Double thumbs up it. If people haven't seen the show, you should and you should click on them and you should watch them. And then you should apparently click the like, you can click a double thumbs up

and apparently that is a genuinely important metric. Double thumbs up. If people haven't seen the show, you can watch them in any order. It doesn't matter. We're a low commitment. You can watch one episode and fuck off if you want. Just like Kim Kardashian did, but with none. Yeah, she didn't watch any.

You watch one more than Kim Kardashian would be helpful. I have not seen that. Yeah. And if someone was going, where should I start? Should they start with Kim Kardashian and then move on to the other episodes? Do you think Kim was right? Well, Nosedive isn't a bad one to start.

I say go in hard, go in light with the very first episode we ever did. Is that the Prime Minister one? That's the one. So one of our kids did come home from school when he was in primary school. And he said, dad, do you do make a show called Black Mirror? And I went, yes, I do. This must have been six or seven, something like that. And I went, what do you think happens in Black Mirror? And he said,

is it where a man loves a pig? So evidently, they've been, right. No, I would say you could start with the first one as the latest season. Like I say, you don't have to watch- Yeah, you're promoting series seven here. Season, season, season, season seven. Well, good luck with it, Charlie. And there's one last question we ask, which obviously we asked Connie when she was on.

What's the one thing about Connie, your partner and mother of your children, that you think is amazing about her? She does such a brilliant job. And what's the one thing she does you find a bit irritating. And if she listened to this, you'd go, Oh, actually, I think he's got a point. Oh, good, isn't it? Or you could settle scores. Is it the

people use it for settings? What she but she's just brilliant with kids. I mean, she just is just brilliant with kids naturally, it sort of comes very naturally to her. She is brilliant at make it like make it to making things, obviously. She will do a sort of whole blue petery sort of pretty much, she's literally fixed things with sticky back plastic in their house. Does she ever say, here's one I made earlier, just for a bit of an old school laugh? She doesn't, because even our postman said that to her once. Do you know what I mean? It's like because people say she can't walk down the street without

somebody going, Hey, yes, this is what I made earlier. Where's your badge? All that shit. Fair enough. She's moving on from that. So she's brilliant at all of that. And she's really tirelessly, she's just sort of does a lot of the sort of parenting stuff

that I'm organizing all the school stuff and things like that. I'm so disorganized as well. So she's sort of effortlessly brilliant with kids basically in a way that I probably have had to learn. Cause I was the sort of person who I didn't want to even see babies before I had, do you know what I mean? I thought they were unknowable, they're unknowable creatures like cows or something. You know that exists, but you don't want any part of them.

The thing that she is not so good at. Oh, she, I would say she thinks she's like really puritan about what I would call treats. So like, like she thinks that sort of going to Nando's is a sort of once in a three month treat. OK. Sort of thing. Nando's is a sort of once in a three month treat. Okay. Sort of thing. And I constantly say it's not that like going to Nando's, it's not like we're going to like Gordon Ramsay's restaurant. Is that diet wise or finances wise? What does she think? Sort of finances. I don't think it can't quite be fine.

We can afford to go to Nando's more than once every three months. But she thinks it's an indulgence and that you could get used to it as an indulgence. And I'm sort of like, sometimes I've looked up the statistics on like how often the average person gets takeaways or whatever. And I'm pointing out that we're nowhere near scraping the bottom of that chart. It's only chicken as well. It isn't like you're having, you know. I use that as an example.

I think she is concerned about people being spoiled. Right. And it'd be a little bit overprotective. And I'm like, I get it, but I'm not exactly like... It's not Nobu twice a week. I'm not, yeah, I'm not a fancy restaurant person because I'm sort of not comfortable in that environment. Do you know what I mean?

You're like the worst person to have completely cracked America with a mega series, really. It's all the benefits of it. You're like, oh, no, not for me. I just go Nando's once a week. I'm slightly anxious if the menu isn't laminated. Do you know, I'm sort of a little bit. I think you never quite lose that.

I think I don't think I went to any restaurants until I was about 21. I don't think I'd been to one, you know. So but she sees things like that as a real indulgence. And I think she worries that it will make the kids will expect this luxurious lifestyle. And my counter argument is, but it's Nando's. It's like it's pizza express or whatever. It's not like, I'm not saying everyone goes out

to pizza express every week sort of thing. But it's not. But you know, once every three months isn't excessive. Yeah, so I tend to be the one who spoils the kids more than her. Right. So there you go. And I think she'd agree with that. And I'm right to do that because this world is horrible. And you've got to like, if you can, you know, scrape a bit of fun now and then, why not? Exactly. Enjoy yourself. Charlie, it's been a joy to speak to you. All right.