Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S10 EP44: Tamzin Outhwaite

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the amazing actress and presenter - Tamzin Outhwaite. You can see Tamzin in the brilliant new adaptation of 'Entertaining Mr Sloane' at the Young Vic from 15th September - 8th November. Info and tickets can be found: HERE Parenting Hell is a Spotify Podcast, available everywhere every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with advice and of course tales of parenting woe. Because let's be

honest there are plenty of times where none of us know what we're doing. Hello you're listening to Can you say Rob? Rob. Eckett. Good girl. And can you say Josh? Josh. Widdicombe. Really good. Good girl. Was a good one actually. Very clear. Solid. Absolutely great sound.

Very quick, efficient and clear. How old's the kid? Then we'll judge. 18 months. Very good. Fuck really? This clip was recorded when our little girl Florence was just 18 months. We think she did pretty well for her age. I should Coco. And then she's a human equivalent of a parrot. The copy is absolutely everything we say, which as you can imagine,

has its pros and cons. I've been a fan since day one and even went back and re listened to all the old episodes when I found out I was pregnant. What a way to celebrate. Thanks so much for all the laughs and for keeping us in. Cheers, Morwenna and Oliver. Solly Hull, but originally from Surrey. Solly Hull. Lovely. Ever been to Solly Hull? I've been there. It's nice. It's a nice suburb of Birmingham. All the big footballers live there, don't they? Is that where all the footballers live? It's quite fancy.

Yeah, well, she's called more when and she's from Surrey. Let's not rule it out. Oh, I'm all good. I'm bunged up, Josh. Oh, no. I think I don't know if it's from the same thing. I don't know if it's hay fever, but we did something at the weekend. Okay. That was very middle class that I enjoyed at the end. But at the beginning, I felt a chip on my shoulder appearing and I felt aggravated by everyone that was there. But once I'd had sex with the wife, you've woken up a bit saucy today, haven't you? I'm not very well Rob, so I'm

powering through on caffeine and paracetamol and blue comedy. So I went to a lavender field for a picnic. Sorry, what? Yeah. Is that a euphemism? So Lou went her and her friends she grew up with got kids and they will hang out together. And then sometimes the dads go along and they're a lovely bunch to be fair. And it was like, Oh, we're all going to a picnic. I'm okay. Yeah. I'm up for it. Sounds good. It's lavender field picnic. And I was like, okay. It's quite tall. How'd you put a picnic blanket out? No, so basically, it's sort of like, there's a flat bit of grass where everyone

pic picnics and then it's like rows of low lavender bushes. So low round bushes, like shrubs, so you can easily it's up to your probably ankle, no, that bigger than your ankle, your knee, maybe. So you can see everyone and you walk up and down it and stuff. And I was like, yeah, I'll do that. And I got there and I was like, oh my god. And it's like literally everyone wearing white holding wicker baskets. People that like our group hadn't but like some groups are dressed in certain clothes so they could take photos those

people with tripods taking photos. So it's that mix between middle class and like influencers. Right. Wow. And I got there and it was like raining all morning. In the end, the sun come out and it was a good time. But I was like, what did you do when it was raining in the lavender field? Well, we luckily lose sister had commandeered like this like little marquees. Yeah. So I sent you a picture of this is basically the last weekend you can do it because the lavender is going to get all chopped up. It's going to be the harvest coming.

Oh, yeah, by the other lavender harvest is coming. But it did rain. Watch this video. I've got great video of a man in the rain. I mean, that those are some gray clouds. Yeah, exactly. You know, I'd say we didn't hit the best day for photos. Oh my God. Oh my word. And there's a really posh farmer walking back with a wooden box.

Yeah. And then the kid pushes another kid into the rain. God, it's really pissing it down. Absolutely battered. Actually that was only for five minutes and because it was so hot it came out But anyway, I was really um, I got there I didn't like it because it was a bit too posh for me like and like you have to like pre-order like flavored gin lavender flavored gin and the crisps are like oysters and salt and vinegar

Yeah Doesn't know you does she? No, and it but we had a really good time in the end. But I brought my own pepperonis. But we'll look back to my daughter but I end up eating three pepperonis in a baby bill. So I went up to the little counter to buy stuff and it was all like they didn't have like normal Coke Zero. It was one of them like where it's like a glass bottle with like, you know, anyway, it was nice. The crisps with oyster and vinegar and you got them free with it. And then...

You didn't get them free, Rob. You didn't get them free. I've gotten... I've not asked how much it costs to go and sit in a field. Anyway, it was nice not it was very nice and very twee, but a bit middle class. Anyway, sat there and I go, Oh, Western, I've never had oysters, oysters, by the way, I've never had oysters and vinegar crisps before. And then someone said, What do they what they taste like? And I went, Oh, it's mainly vinegar, if I'm honest, I'm not getting massive oyster. And then a woman who was picnicking near us shouted, they're my crisps. I make them.

Oh no. Oh no. Oh gosh. And then I was like, okay, well don't shout at your customer. All I've said is they're quite vinegary. Right? And half of it is vinegar. And also what's the noise to really taste of is mainly Tabasco and you know. Sorry, the manufacturer of the crisp was free. Chris, I was happened to be there. Like it like listening in for some kind of kind of feedback on it. Chris. Yeah. And I went, Oh, I went, um, I went, yeah, no, no, I saw it.

I can definitely taste the vinegar in them. Any chance you could chuck some oyster in the net? He twisted the knife. He twisted the fucking knife. Look, I basically went into sort of like deal with a heckle mode. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then they went, Oh, we had to take some of it out because of allergens. Well, what kind of nutcase is it in oyster crisps if they've got a seafood allergy? Do you know what I mean? And I'm like, well, what kind of nutcase is it in oyster crisp if they've got a seafood allergy? Do you know what I mean? So that was back and forth. And also, so basically I'm bunged up because

I had a bit of an allergic reaction to the old lavender. So you're there, right? If you're allergic to lavender, it's the wrong place to go, Rob. I mean, I cannot express that you've... It was beautiful and it was lovely, to be honest. After I was a bit nervous at the start, I did enjoy myself, but I like the smell of lavender, right? And you've got to be into lavender to go into lavender. The smell is intense.

Right? Yeah. And when did you realize you were having a reaction to it? My tongue got bigger. What? I have anaphylactic shocks to certain things, certain plants. Yeah, you're sure it wasn't the oyster crisps? Maybe. What allergens have you put in there? Anaphylactic shocks to certain things certain plants. Yeah, it wasn't the oyster crisps

So I was also eating strawberries out of a cardboard box which another can't be that can't be a problem, can it? I don't know when I've cherries and Kiwis, you know Ross and friends with Kiwi No, I don't know. Well, he has a Kiwi and he's basically your mouth mouth and throat swells, your tongue swells and you get a lisp. So that was happening to me and I was like, maybe it's the lavender, because the smell, honestly, it's like being in Lush for an hour with a Scotch egg. Having a pepperoni and Lush.

Having a pepperoni and Lush. Yeah, but it was fine, but by the end, because you're there for about an hour and a half or so, kids loved it, nice pictures. So I would recommend eight out of 10 a lavender picnic. Do check your allergic reactions before you go. Check your allergens and batten down the hatches on any working class chip on your shoulder because it will get lively out there for you. Yeah. And don't slug off the crisps because the walls have ears. To be fair, I

didn't even slug off the crisps. They're very nice crisps and I was eating them and then someone said, what do they taste of? I went, they're nice, crisps and I was eating them and then someone said what do they taste of when they're nice but it's mainly vinegar and then the lady confirmed it by saying we had to remove the oyster because of allergens. Yeah. So if anything I was just being factual. Exactly, shows that your taste buds are working. With the availability of jobs on MasterChef it couldn't be a better timing Rob. It's just banter. Now we've got a great guest. Got a great guest today. This is Tamsin Althwaite, star of Stage and Screen, EastEnders, The West End, the wonderful sitcom Josh, where she played Josh Whitcomb's love interest, and Strictly.

And Strictly. It's a brilliant interview and she's really open and honest and it's really important the stuff we chat about. So enjoy this with Tamsin Alfwaite. It's a lovely backdrop, Tamsin. Were you on the front of Vogue? Oh, I was. Yes. It's the best thing that's ever happened to me. Oh, sorry. No, but don't look at that. I'm hiding that with my head. Josh has started the podcast flirting again with Tamsin. I didn't start the podcast. Have you been on Vogue?

He hasn't got it in him. Let's go back to your modeling days Tamsin. So when you were on the front of Vogue, let's start the podcast. Hello Tamsin Althwaite. Oh hello Josh and Rob. How are you? Very good. Delighted to have you on. You're in front of a copy of Vogue. I'm actually covering it. I'm so embarrassed

by it. You're covering it. So embarrassed. You've got it on your wall. I love it. Amazing. It's literally the best thing that's ever happened to me. I'm still not over it. So who's on the front of that? There's a group of four of you. It was the year that Anna Wintour would be just creeping out about this, but it was the year that they did TV personalities. They were actors and we were supposedly the TV blondes. And so inside you've got like Kat Daly, you've got Ant and Debt, you've got all these different tele people. For some reason, they made us for the cover.

So it's myself, Hermione Norris, Amanda Holden and Ulrika Johnson. Wow. Amazing. That's incredible. That's a proper sign of the times, isn't it? And what, did you meet Anna Wintell? No. Was she involved? I think it was too early.

Well, no, I think she probably was there. I know that the fashion world were a bit up in arms. Yeah, that is quite mainstream, isn't it? Because they were a bit like, what? You know. So what year was this then? they were a bit like, what? You know. So what year was this then? What was everyone doing that long? I was doing Redcap.

Redcap? It doesn't actually say, but it was £3.20 and it was November. I reckon 2004 maybe? Four? It was between 2002 and 2004. It's bad things that happen in your career sometimes that come out of nowhere. I'm Googling it now Tamsin, do you mind?

No, all the hate that happened. It was 2003 that you were in Red Cap. Was it? Oh well, yeah but that was one, it was over a three year period, it was a pilot and two series. Oh, so it's just like, oh. And then just, yeah, a bit of Cold Feet, you've got Amanda Holden, yeah, a pilot and two series. Oh, sorry. Yeah, so it could be. A bit of Cold Feet, you got Amanda Holden. Cold Feet.

Yeah, in Eureka, kaka. Yeah, whatever Eureka was doing at the time. 2002, that was. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. That was a massive coup, a career coup. Well, welcome, Tamsin.

Thank you. Last time I saw you, we were at the Strictly Christmas. Yes. Didn't we? We did well. I think we can all agree. I was robbed. And we'll move on.

Your careers have crossed a lot. You was in the sitcom together. Oh, no. Yes. Strictly. What else did we do together? We did the three. Blankety Blank.

The three of us. We did that. I loved that. Oh, yeah, of course. I was up there in the corner. Yeah. What do we think is hard to do? Blank. Oh dear. Strictly was fun though, wasn't it? Yeah.

I suppose I've got to ask what we were asked a million times. Would you do the full series, Tamsin? I feel a bit like we were treats a bit. We went in for a couple of weeks. We did some of it and we just kind of got the cherry on the cake, but we didn't do all of that work. And I think doing it for a whole, however many months.

It'd be a bit of an effort, wouldn't it? I mean, I can't be bothered. Can't you? You haven't got time. I'll be honest with you, Tamsin. I don't think my worry would be that I'd be tired when I was in the final. I don't think the fear would be that the 12 weeks would be a problem. My fear would be you do it and you go out in week one. You'd lose control of your life, Josh, if you did strictly the full series at the moment. I think wait till the kids are older.

Yeah, yeah. And also when you're not doing podcasts and books and tours and stand up and everything you do. Exactly. Well, you're still you're on tour. I think you've got a new show, isn't it? Is it entertaining Mr. Sloan? Is that? Oh, yes.

I'm not on tour. I'm going to the Young Vic. Oh, well, residency. It's like it's like going to the Young Vic. Oh, residency, lovely. It's like a... Vogue the Young Vic. Honestly. What's happened? Of course you're going to be at the Young Vic. What's happened to this chick from Essex? I was like, I literally, I've never worked at the Young Vic.

I mean, I've worked at the National once, but I've never been back. There are those theatres that, you know, you you always think, gosh will they ever ask me? Yeah there's some ones that are a lot sort of level above aren't they because it's sort of like very... Well it's, they feel like they're elite. So they're like, it's the Almeida, the Donmar, the National, the Old Vic, the Young Vic. What's the difference between the Old and the Young? Is the Young Vic just a spin-off? Like is that like, is it like, I don't know but like was the Old Vic there and then they're

like we need a second theater. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know what the actual timeframe of it was. But I know that the Young Vic became really well known for kind of really edgy stuff. Right. When the old Den in Millwall. Yeah, exactly. Different stadium.

And it basically now it's like a more modern building. So the old Vic literally is like pillars and. And you nervous because it's the young Vic. Very. Okay, I hadn't finished the question. How long are you there for? So we start rehearsing August the 11th and we play from the middle of September till the middle of November.

What's that like as an experience? Because I went and did the guest on, you know, inside number nine in the play. Yes. They did the play. I did that too, Josh. Did you do the guest thing on that? Yes.

And I was about 50 episodes, 50 nights in. Nights in, yeah. And I was really excited. And you could see that these people were coming back every night to do the same thing. And I thought, I think after a week I couldn't do it. Like, because at least- I mean, you've done The Last Leg for 12 years, mate.

I'm sure you'll find a way. At least with the tour, I'm moving around the country. But you're literally having a job, isn't it? Yeah. But also, I mean, I did eight years of musical theatre years and years ago. And I did like Oliver at the Palladium, Sam Mendy's production, so it was like grown up. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Quite grown up, but for a year, a year. Bloody hell. Blimey. And I did Grease at the Dominion for a year. Fucking hell. So imagine doing eight shows a week, eight shows a week for a whole year. It's like obviously you have to find other things to keep you occupied while you're on stage. By the end of the Megamix, I've had enough of Greece. So talk us through, so how many kids have you got? I've got two kids. And I did have two daughters,

and now I have a son and a daughter. And that's quite easy for me to say now, but it wasn't maybe six or seven years ago. So how old are the kids? Seventeen and twelve. Marnie's about to be thirteen, so then I'm going to have two teenagers, which is quite crazy. But you know what they say, we live in a very happy household now. It is full of bantays, full of jokes, and it's my favorite place to be at home. You know, they say that as a mom, probably

as a parent, that you're only, but I think it's more mom, sorry. Fair enough. I think it turns beef or parent. Sorry. But they say- But it's normally mom, that means mum. People parent means mum. You're only ever as happy as your unhappiest child. Yes. Yes. And so with that in mind, we have had some pretty unhappy years.

Yeah, of course. Now we're in a really wonderful place as a family. Flo is in a wonderful place as a brilliant actor, singer, writer, director in his like sixth form at school. And Marnie is thriving. So instead of just trying to get through difficult times, we are now all thriving and the relief and the joy is very tangible, it's lovely. Yeah, I bet it is.

I bet it is. I can feel it off you. Yeah, it feels like just talking to you there, as Rob said, you can see it on you, that you're, I mean, you're a good actor, obviously I'm not saying that you couldn't fake it, but you can see it coming. You've done the national.

And so talk us through that, how many years has this process been going on? So it was about when Flo was about 10 or 11, and the maddest thing is, I suppose, is that it's not the most interesting thing about him. He's an incredibly funny, intelligent boy. And I'm watching him grow into a wonderful human who's very talented.

And to see him thriving is just nothing but relief and joy for me, really. Because there was some dark times. So all you want is your kids to be happy. Exactly. And the hardest thing I find about being a parent is you learn that slowly you can't do everything to make them happy.

No. It's sort of like it's on them and also there's other things at play. You know, there's not always something you can do. So, you know, being powerless to that. And then having just to let things take its course. But now it seems to be in a good place, which is brilliant.

Time and action, but also being sensitive. And you know, the whole LGBTQ community get a bit hard rap at the moment. It's quite tough, I think. Yeah, it's very hot, like hot topic. It is a hot topic. It probably happened for you almost at the time when this topic was just so, like it's almost like you've been in kind

of you've been in sync with that kind of topic becoming such a public debate. Yeah and every situation is completely different so it's not like every child is different and it's really is less than one percent of the population like there's this big up in arms things. It's not that common just because, yeah. But I am, I'm just so happy for him. I'm happy that we're in a place and he's in a place that he is just, I mean, he's an incredible actor and he's desperate to be like a writer, a comedy writer. So like you guys, Taskmaster, James Acaster, he's on all of the podcasts. He's like, he's all over it.

So I was only allowed to talk about it on this podcast. That's, that's, that's. I'd have been furious if you'd chosen off menu. I think that was second choice, but it wasn't about parenting really. Forget the poppidums, I've got something else to share. But I suppose obviously we're going to move on from this topic because that's only a part of him.

It's not the whole story, obviously. But it coincides with the stage where he's now becoming a man and a grown up. How do you feel like that as a parent that you've sort of got your first child is sort of not leaving the nest yet, but approaching that where you're not a mum to little ones anymore? No. approaching that where you're not a mum to little ones anymore? No, I would say that we have become a lot closer over the last few years. And I think that that happens naturally before they fly the nest. And then when they go, they go for a while and then they come back again.

And so I'm in the stage knowing that I am very aware of the amount of years I might have left with them, the amount of holidays I might have left, the amount of summers, you know. I'm so aware of all of that. And also, because everyone's in a great place. I mean, the house is a crazy household. It's multi-generational. My dad lives at the bottom of the garden in a cabin I have built for him. He's 79. He's just about to start his third round of radio therapy with a bit of chemo as well. And he's taking it all on the chin and he's lucky. He believes. Wow. He's got a lot going on here. Loads going on. And then my right hand woman who has brought the kids up with me, who's

like, you know, their nanny, but I never want to let her go because she literally has been, you know, she's just brilliant. She has two kids. She's part of the family. Yeah, and she has two kids that are very young, two boys. So they're always here too. Then my ex-boyfriend, Tom, is literally my best mate and we share a dog, Bowie. Okay.

Yep, keep going. So he, he's always in and out the house as well and has been around for the whole of like Flo's transitioning period, for the whole of like, Flo's transitioning period, for the whole of Marnie becoming a girl that was discovering all sorts of stuff and boys. And so he is still a member of the family. So when people say, like the kids often say to him, when you meet someone Tom, because we've been not together for over a year, but he's literally my best mate. When you meet someone Tom, you know, or even if you have,

when you, how are you going to explain this situation to your girlfriend? I keep going around my exes to see the dog. Because you separate from the kids father, a little like about 10 years ago or so, it was literally when the kids were tiny, Marnie was not even one. That must have been tough though, that was a challenging time as well. Yeah, of course, but he lives in LA. Well, he lives in America. So he's pretty in and out of their lives, but they have a lot of support and people that have been around. So you're right. I say, I've just sometimes we sit on these parenting hell calls and I think, how the fuck are we getting 50 minutes out of this? I've got nothing to ask. This one, I'm like,

where do I start? Do you know what question is about all week at Johnson and the photoshoot? Let's go through. So what's it like? What's your day to day life like? Is your dad involved in the parenting? Like, is it like, so my dad's nocturnal because he used to be a taxi fox. He lives in the bottom of the garden. He's in a really nice cabin. Don't worry about that. He's got underfloor heating and you know, he's all right um people always go well what he's in a shed but it's lovely it's a lovely shed has he got a key to the house of course oh he has to come through the house to go out he wishes he had his own side alley but obviously

he doesn't but he is nocturnal in the sense that he used to be a cab driver i mean i'm talking years and years and years ago and and he always worked nights. And he's never quite got his sleep schedule back in, even though it's been over 20 years. To back into normal existence. Does he still sit in front of you and turn his neck to chat as well? So that's, he's nocturnal, but he will do, he will do pickups. Like if, cause at the moment I'm a taxi driver because neither, yeah, of course that's what happens at this age.

Cause you two are in those years of, you know, if your kids are going out, you're going with them. Of course. Yeah. And so I'm driving them around at the weekend and picking them up and waiting for the late night call and thinking, you know, what time are they going to actually get home? One's now got an Uber scenario, which is great, but awful for my dad. He's a taxi driver who can't bear Uber. So he'd rather go and pick flow up.

And because he's nocturnal, he'll do any time between 10pm and 3am. Has he still got a black cab or has he got a car? No, no. No, he's got his old BMW. You know, he's very old school, my dad. Has Flo started driving lessons yet then? No, he's not interested at the moment because we live in London and we've got all trains and...

Well, you've got a cab driver at the end of the garden. Exactly, exactly. And me. And so I do pickups before nine. So yeah, that's, he's there. Everyone seems to have a key to the house and everyone's in and out all the time. Tom, Michelle, the boys, my two,

and also Flo's mates who, a couple of them, are here all the time. And I always used to say, I expect my house to be full of teenagers at some point in my life as a mom. And I'm at all the time and I always used to say, I expect my house to be full of teenagers at some point in my life as a mom. Yeah. And I'm at that stage now. And it's brilliant.

I love it. Do they get you involved in the gossip though? Oh yeah. Or do they keep you ex, okay, you're full of love. I know, they get me involved in all the gossip. And do you ever think I really should pass that on? No, no, I just think come and talk to me and I'll always talk through that stuff with you.

But yeah, whatever happens, don't take drugs. How do you get that then? What would you say? Because I always want that to be the house they come to. I think part of it is logistics. If you're close to something like the first house home, but how do you reckon you've created that environment just because it's always busy and a bit of a madhouse anyway? I think because anything pretty much goes and I know my kids talk to me and so their friends feel like they can probably talk to me too.

Also, they love Tom even though he's literally my mate. So how often is Tom there? A lot. Does he live nearby? He lives literally around the corner in a flat. And if there's any food over, he eats everything. So we just go, Tom, Tom, there's a really lovely, he said to me, if you're going to talk about me, make sure it's nice. There's a really lovely stew in the slow cooker. And we, you know, 18 people have already had it, but there's some left.

And you know, he'll be round and he'll finish up, polish off the stew. So it's, yeah, so it's an, I would say it's an open house in the same way that I think my parents' house was open. You know, and I think I've created something that is the only thing I knew. Yeah, did you always want that as the feeling then? That's the kind of-

Like I know people that can't bear the idea of someone knocking on the door I knew. Yeah, did you always want that as the feeling then? Yeah. That's kind of, yeah. I know people that can't bear the idea of someone knocking on the door without phoning first or something. Yeah. We're quite near the Broadway, so if people are walking to the shops, they will always, hi, are you all right?

Pop in, yeah. Do you fancy coming there for one or do you, you know, so. And when you go off to, obviously my kids are much younger, so I'm like, you never know how these things work. When you go off now to do two and a half months whatever is it the theater yeah at the new Vic do you young Vic young Vic sorry come on you come on Even I knew that. You've got the Young Vick, you've got the King D'Aumio. The D'Aumio! The D'Aumar. The D'Aumar. The D'Elomonte. The D'Aumio warehouse.

So, will you just be leaving your kids? Is there anything you need to do in that situation? Or have your kids kind of reached a point where it's like a self-policing thing? Yeah, it's kind of self now. But the first time I went away to work was last year. I went to Malta for 10 weeks to film this thing called The Wives for Channel 5. And I wasn't going to say no to that because it was a lovely script, all female led. And me and Angela Griffin and Joe Joyner were the three wives. And both of them are my mates.

And I was like, oh, lovely. But at the time, Tom and I were still together. So he was living here. So it worked perfectly. Now what happens is just leave a massive stew in a slow cooker for 10 weeks. Now I just make more food and say, if you fancy popping in and checking on the kids, you know where they are. And so they'll kind of would flow look after Marnie and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah yeah they do do that but it's now because my dad's in the house you know the garden's not four acres it's like it's only 20 steps away and he's here and also I suppose there is always mainly someone here and Flo's 17

so Flo can babysit now legally for other other kids so I kind of feel like it's it's all in hand. How did you do it when they were younger then? When they were, oh no, I will still when I'm at the Young Vic, I will still get up for the seven o'clock school run though. That's the difficult thing about theatre. That's what we struggle with me and Josh. Do you? Like our gigs and then school because you know, you don't see them otherwise. Because we're always going to the theatre to watch and then.

But that's the killer. But then you have to have a nap in the day at some point, maybe. So do you, when you say you've got to do the school run, you're not taking your kids to school? I am. Presumably. Are you? Yeah. Michelle will.

She will sometimes. Michelle was my right hand woman who started off as their nanny when they were born. So 17 years she's been with me. Oh, wow. I know. I know. I know. She really is a member of the family. So she was sort of who you used when you were like working a lot when they were little,

little, and then you did proper care. She knows them better than me. How are you going to feel? Because there's obviously you're not just dealing with the idea that your kids are going to fly the nest. Yeah. But you're dealing with the fact that then what's the score with Michelle? Well, no, I'll just have to employ her as something else.

I don't know because I can never lose her. I mean, she's this morning, she doesn't do like the hours she used to, but like she's here all day on a Friday and I went downstairs just now to make a coffee and she was cleaning the cupboard out for me, and I was just like, this is brilliant. This is brilliant. And you know. It must be so mad for you though, because when you do EastEnders, especially when you did it,

it was so, you can't even comprehend how big it was now, because TV doesn't get that kind of figures, but like you're just everywhere, and then you go to the theater, where it's like there's like these millions of these talented people that, you know, no one really knows their name really. They're just operating theaters. So it's a real juxtaposition between that.

I know. And do you prefer that lower profile stuff than the, you know, you become tabloid fodder, don't you, in EastEnders? Yeah, I mean, less so now. Now I think the minute that Love Island and stuff like that started happening, then EastEnders became, you know, it wasn't as important. There's other, there was reality stars then. And those people become slightly more tabloid fodder. But at the time in EastEnders, when like Mel and Ian Beale got married at the millennium. There was a- Oh, remember it well.

There was a massive screen in Trafalgar Square where apparently you could watch it and hear a pin drop on New Year's Eve. Oh my word. And I went away. I was in like Madagascar. I tried to hide and go somewhere far and went trekking for three weeks or something.

With Adam Woody at which didn't help. Yeah. And we basically, I just never forget that we got like the figures in when the figures really mattered. Everyone was talking about those figures and there was 23 million people watching it. Jesus Christ. Oh my word. Which is just like what?

Oh my word. That's mad. That is mad. Did you have kids when you were in that or did the kids come slightly after that? Quite a long time after. Obviously Flo has kind of not followed you into exact career, but into the same world. Yeah, yeah. I think Marnie may as well. Yeah, and do you think, are they interested in your career?

No, they're interested. Will they come and watch you? So they're interested when I do something like Inside Number Nine, they loved, right? They loved Murder, They Hope. Blankety Blank? They did like Blankety Blank. They watched it. They loved it.

Because probably because you two were on it, they'll watch anything. Like I'll say yes, like when I did another murder thing for the BBC, Matt Bainton was in it. So they're obsessed with ghosts. So you know, if I could get on Taskmaster or on some kind of ghost special. You did Doctor Who, didn't you?

Years ago, yeah. But I don't think they've seen that. The things that they've seen that they quite liked are mainly comedy. Yeah. They've still not seen Josh because I don't know where you watch it. But... Unbelievable. Is it on BBC iPlayer?

It was on Netflix! Because you kissed each other on the telly, which is the first guest we've had. You said an incredible thing to me on Strictly, an incredible thing when we did Strictly that I really laughed at that you didn't realise what a slam it was. You said, someone asked you about doing it and you said, oh yeah, I really enjoyed that. And you said, I really enjoyed that. Such a shame no one watched it. And I said that.

Did I say that? Oh god. He said, I really enjoyed that. Such a shame no one watched it. And I was so dead! Did I say that? Oh God. I tell you why, because we couldn't find how to watch it. What was it? A lot of the country had that problem, Tamsin. Well, Tamsin had gone from 23 million in East England. I know, you know, you're not having to go to Venezuela to get away from that one.

You've had a tough life there from Ian Bill to Josh Winokam. I mean, you're on screen lovers, Tamsin. To be fair, to be fair, I'd say they're quite similar in lots of ways. They both got nothing left. Let's not dig down into that. I've got nothing left. That's basically Josh on every episode of this. So, so going back to it, this house obviously is like that now. But how's that house grown into this kind of atmosphere of kind of coming and going?

Or has it always been like that? I think it's always been like that, but the kids getting older and their personalities becoming very prominent and funny means that there's a lot of laughter. So it's almost like whoever comes through the door has to lift the vibes even more. It's almost like a competition, a vibe. It's almost a fun, because you don't realize it,

like how straight, laced and serious some parents are. Because in a house, we're all being silly all the time, but then I'll go and pick the kids up from somewhere. I'm like, they'll go, oh, hello, welcome. You're like, fucking hell, am I at a hotel or something? And the door opens, and I start going, all right, I better behave. Do you know what I mean?

Exactly. So because I'm still such a massive kid, and my ex is actually a kid, cause he's 20 years younger than me. So he really is one. Oh, respect actually. You've been lent on for widders. So, and my dad's kind of, you know, it's like, and Michelle,

and then we've got two young kids who are here quite a lot. It does feel like the house of fun. So Michelle brings her kids to your house. Yeah. Not all day, but just at the end of the day, they all have dinner together. You really do want to keep Michelle, don't you? She's bringing her own kids to look after, whilst not looking after your kids because they're too old. Next time you're on, there's

going to be two sheds in the garden. Let's be honest. Michelle does actually live in my flat, the road. Right. Do you like the woman in the show. So yeah, she's just been too integral in everything for the last 17 years of my life. So I've got a question for you. How would you give advice to other parents, like if the child is going through something, whatever it may be, maybe it's a flow situation or a different situation with whatever it is, how do you sort of connect with your child and talk to them and manage it? Going through a change at that time of their life because early teenage years is such a difficult, you know, treading on eggshells.

It really is. And I think the teens that we have now also struggled with lockdown and the whole pandemic. So they're the teenagers now that were just starting to be like teenagers at the beginning. They're now, they're the result of lockdown, a lot of stuff that happened in lockdown, which was difficult. Particularly because your house is standing room only. I mean, 700 people in your house. You couldn't get two meter distance in that house. Do you know what's so weird is that actually when I have the house to myself, I really love it as well. I bet you do.

I bet you do. Because it's like, oh my god. On my birthday, what do you want? Nothing. No one. Don't talk to me. Which obviously when I hit perimenopause, that was quite tricky because suddenly you're like, the noise was like, can

everyone just be quiet? And then obviously I've worked through that because for a while I couldn't even hear a door slam without going, ah, it was all awful. I would say to people that are going through that, I mean, the way I reacted at the very beginning, I would love to change because I think until you know, till you're going through it yourself with your child,

it's very difficult to judge other people or to judge a situation because you don't expect that to happen to you or your child, it's very difficult to judge other people or to judge a situation because you don't expect that to happen to you or your child. I would definitely say what I did was, initially I was like, don't be ridiculous. So I didn't say don't be ridiculous, but my mind went to that's ludicrous. And working back from that to talking through it, family therapy, therapy on Flo's side, so Flo was doing therapy as well. Speaking to other people and realizing you weren't alone was a really, really helpful thing because-

Is there organizations or anything? Yeah, there are plenty of places that you can go to, gender GPs. The situation is that what I did was I became almost like a padded cell, a round flow, almost like going, it's okay, whatever you want, you want to do this, you want to do that, it's all okay. Because otherwise, I think if you push back on a kid, they're going to want to do the opposite of what their parents says. So I made everything a possibility. I didn't say you can't, you can't be that, but it was a very distressing time,

a very, very distressing time. And what we worked through together and as a family and with outside help is very doable. Some people, I mean, it really is less than 1%. We are hearing much more about it now because we have so many different levels of communication and everybody knows everything. And I would say being the support, because an awful lot of people won't support and there's a lot of judgmental people around that really

believe there's some kind of trend going on. I don't think any trans children would choose that path. It's not what you describe as a path of least resistance, is it? It's a hell of a thing to put yourself through. It's not a fun lightweight bit of trend, is it? It's a heavy world full of vitriol. Exactly. And with a lot of resistance that you're going to come up against,

you also will come up against a lot of support. So there is a lot of support out there. And I'm very aware of Flo receiving online abuse, but Flo's already knows exactly what to do and how to deal with it. Flo still speaks to a therapist. Marnie has been the most insightful about all of it because it's constantly from pretty much from day one

when Marnie was six years old has said, this is my has said this is my brother, this is my brother Flo. That's great. Oh really? That's because that generation, this whole gender thing is not- Yeah, I was wondering that. Is it much more of a, not, I think this is maybe the wrong way to phrase it, but does

it feel like much less of a deal for other children of that generation because it makes- Definitely. Definitely. I mean, Flo has many nicknames at school, Flauza, Flubs, you know, all sorts of different things. All of the kids are so accepting of everything, but I think they're much more understanding. Whereas obviously there was a time, my dad's brilliant now and on board, but there was a time where, you know where I didn't want Flo to have the wrath of what my dad had to say about the whole thing. And now everyone's, you can imagine. Yeah, it's a difficult, it's hard enough getting Christmas, going through Christmas without politics between different generations. Never mind.

Absolutely. Never mind that. Yeah, exactly. While he's at the bottom of the garden moaning about apps and Uber. Yes, I know. But he's wonderful now garden moaning about apps and Uber. Yes, I know. But he's wonderful now and he will actually correct people when they say she, he will say he. And he'll say the kids, not the girls. You know, he's on board and brilliant.

And there's been an awful lot of support around that has been wonderful. Do you feel like you've been, are you part of a community that you wouldn't have been part of in a way? In a way, but I don't, Flo's also not that bothered about, you know, meeting other trans people. Doesn't even like the word trans, just in his world, he's a boy. He should have always been a boy. And that's, he lives as a boy and he's a boy.

But I, it's not really about kind of introducing him to other trans people. He's got people and he doesn't want that to be his identity, the fact that he's trans. Yeah, totally. Of course. That's the thing. That's amazing. I think that padded cell thing is such a brilliant image of just sort of like, you know, it's going to be a bit rough and rocky because it's a thing that everyone's learning about

for the first time. Yeah. And you may have disagreements or like, you know, as in muscle memory, just I say the girls all the time. Yeah. So that it will take to a point where even you want to say the right things, but your brain just goes, you know, back into old muscle memory and it's habit and then you just adjust and stuff. Exactly. And the older you are, the older your habits are. Of course. So the younger people adapt to things much quicker. Whereas

it took us a bit longer and my dad a bit longer. I mean, yeah, your dad probably still don't take card in his cab, does he? He's still waiting at cash points. He doesn't understand the whole no cash thing. Cash is king. Exactly. And with Flo going into kind of showbiz and stuff, you like have done exceptionally well in your career. You know when you meet an actor who has been an actor for 30 years and you go, people don't realize how difficult that is, how rare that is and how kind of uneven the job is and how difficult it is to keep work and stuff like that.

How does it feel knowing that your kid's going into one of those kind of uneven careers or are you just really excited for it? Yeah well I left I left college in 1990, so it's basically 35 years, isn't it? Are we 25? Yeah, that's 35 years. Which feels ridiculous because I still think I'm younger than that, you know. How to become 35. But I think it would be hypocritical of me to say to the kids, can't you choose a career that isn't...

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Because I've loved every minute. Well, not every minute, but I've loved most of them. So for me to say to them, no, why don't you choose something else? It's like I see them have a passion and I think they're both naturally quite gifted, which is hard to say, because you sound like you've been a stage mom. They're both parents or actors, aren't they? Yeah, exactly. But Flo has something that's a lot more kind of studious than me

and could be like a film critic or a theatre critic or analyses everything, every moment, and the detail with his performance in things is quite something else. And Marnie is naturally very outgoing and kind of reminds me of me when I was a kid. So she's like a jack of all trades, master of nothing. That's what I was like. I was like, we call her have a go Marnie. She'll have a go on the drums in a band. She's singing in that. She's the netball captain, she's the sports leader, but she's brilliant at maths. So she's just like, she'll do a bit of everything. And I suppose she's

got the same makeup as me in that way. Whereas Flo's a lot more detailed and a lot more, I would say a lot more studious and more of a scholar. Yeah, maybe more of a director or producer, as as opposed, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah, I reckon he'll be a writer or a director. He's a brilliant writer, but also he's very funny. And how bothered are you about their academic stuff? Are you on it with their schoolwork? You're not bothered? No, I can't remember. I was the last year of O-Levels and I can't remember what I was the last year of O levels and I can't remember what I level like what results I got. Yeah, no idea. I know I got five, but I don't know what they were. And I know I got drama, but I know I got maths. That's it. I don't think it's as important as we think it is,

really. Not especially when you're creative and you want to do creative stuff. So you never really put the pressure on them academically or worry too much. You know, like with their results and things like that, you know, it's a balance because you don't want them to not bother, but you don't want them to worry too much about it. I think I don't want them getting stressed, but I'm probably a bit of a hippie about stuff like that. Like, you know, I'm quite laid back and I was laid back and my mum was a hippie and you know, it's, I'd rather than be kind and have fun and be funny. I'd rather than be funny. Yeah. Also, as well as what's going on in the last few years for you as a family,

the last thing you need to worry about is geography being a D or a C or whatever. Exactly. Exactly. Like I go on these quiz shows sometimes, I just did a couple recently, and like their whole thing is, I'm like, I don't, what was it? What's Richard Osmond's one, House of Games? I can't, they're difficult. And I can't I can't answer loads of them. Some of them, you know, all right, if they're up your street, but I can't. And the kids were like, Mom, it doesn't matter if you can't answer them. Just be funny. And that's their whole thing. Their whole thing is you like sucking the marrow out of life is very important. So I think it's a great

approach. That's good. When you're a kid, you're not from your dad's tax, so you're not from an acting background at all. It sounds like in a way you've got created a very similar kind of busy house situation, but it feels like it's a much more kind of kind of artsy. But cab drivers quite similar though, almost like self-employed go out, get your work. It's a very similar process of unsociable hours and you have to go out and find money and it's all on you rather than nine to five, you know, I think. Because that's what I found in my dad was a black cab driver. Was he?

And he'd always come home at different times of night. Does that surprise you, Tamsin, that Rob's dad was a black cab driver? It doesn't surprise me, but I feel like I know everyone in the industry who's got a dad as a black cab driver. Oh, me, you, Joe Slech. And you weren't on there. And did he do nights, your dad? Was he like... Yeah, but not night. He'd go out early afternoon and come home probably like 9, 10, sometimes a bit later. But he didn't say late, late. My dad just hates traffic, so he would just do nights.

Yeah, until like six in the morning kind of thing. Yeah. When were you seeing him in that situation? What was his day? Um, I don't really remember. It was such a long time ago. Also he wouldn't go out every night. He could choose. That's, that was the whole thing. Yeah. I mean, I do actually think now the idea of theater for my dad is like, why would you put yourself through it for no money? Eight times a week, someone telling you where to be, what to do, you know.

You're not your own. It's Richard from Cab Driver. Not being your own boss, I suppose. But I'm really, I really like a structure and someone else telling me what to do. I like a director and being under the umbrella of some kind of establishment, definitely. And what would you do if your kids were asked to be in EastEnders?

Oh, this has actually happened to a friend's kid recently. Firstly, they're too posh now. Oh, they've got posh accents. But they could play a kind of the Broadway, Steve Owen figure. He was quite posh, was he? No, they basically, they could easily do, they're quite good at accents, both of them. But I think it's more that, a friend of mine's kid has just been asked to audition for East Enders and I said, go for it. Because they said, would you have a chat to them about it?

Because they're being like, oh, I don't want to be in a soap. And I said, yeah, but these days, it's a great place to learn your craft. You've got a multicam going on. Otherwise, you wouldn't know where to stand, how many takes you've got. All of that stuff that happens when you're learning, you're trading in front of all those people.

And it's not as big as it was before. I mean, Natalie Cassidy, we talked to a lot. Oh, yeah. And she like, when Sonia was, it was just like, that was who she was to the whole country immediately, where now it's a little bit more under the radar slightly. Yeah, it's not gonna define you. Like, you must have had that thing where you're like,

I need to leave here before this is me forever. Yes. In terms of people can't imagine casting me as something else. Yes, absolutely. And I think I don't think now it's the case so much. No, I just it's probably just because the platform is smaller. It's not such a huge platform. And so you can make mistakes, can't you, in front of less people.

And is Flo looking to go to university and move out after sixth form? Or is he working? I think he will probably, I mean, there's options of like drama schools and stuff, he's got another year of sixth form. Marnie's about to start a new school on a sports and drama scholarship which she's most excited about which means my school runs now start at 6am. No. Oh my god. I'll talk you through the school run. So the first school, the school run that I do now that I share with Michelle so we'll spread it out But it is leave the house both kids. Talk me through what you've got to do. I'm your own from September from

Get up at least I don't have to make any lunches, which is brilliant So at the moment I make them lunch I get up early I'll make them lunch in the morning and to it all out, leave it all out on the side and then they get out. Steal again, mum, yeah. Steal. Yeah, slow cooker. So basically I, from September I'll have to drive,

I'll get up at six and drive Marnie to about a mile away where a bus will pick her up. No, maybe it's two miles away where a bus will pick her up. No, maybe it's two miles away where a bus will pick her up and take her 40 minutes up the M1 to a new school. Jesus. Then I will come back from my two miles. She has to be there by seven in the morning. Whoa.

I know. So then I will come home and then I will pick up Flo and drive Flo probably four miles to the school he's at now and where Marnie's at now, but she's changing. So then my morning, the school runs will be between 6.30 and 9.30. And could they do that themselves? Is there bus routes that they could do that themselves? They really could, but there's something about the time, because that's my time with them in the car. Whether we're listening to musicals, whether we're listening to your podcast, Gobble Gobble, whatever it is, whatever we're listening to, it's my time with them in a way. Because

then after school they want to be with their mates and they're out seeing other people and clubs and netball and all sorts. I do think that because we're potentially moving and losing the school run and as much as it frustrates me, I was like, when are we going to listen to music together? Because that's when we listen to like Carly Rae Jepsen or Sabrina Carter or Dua Lipa or whatever. And I'm like, I don't know when that that is our thing that we do together in these journeys. When am I going to give them mini cheddars while we listen to you? Yes.

I know it's silly, but I know what you mean. They're like, there's like core memories. And do you drive them, Josh? Do you drive them in the car then? Yes. That's going to change, is it? Yeah. Well, if we move house and so.

Well, after all the building work. Don't, don't, don't move house and so. After all the building work. Don't, don't, don't, Tamsin. Are you joking? Well, we might be dead. Adrian's still there, Tamsin. We're not getting into it. We're not getting into it. But I would miss that. I totally see what you mean about

there's something about because also I think, you know, we've discussed this before on the show, that there's something about sitting in a car with someone not looking at them where you're more able to have conversations with them than any other situation because you're both not looking at each other. You're both in this situation where you're trapped kind of. And I imagine like a lot of the stuff you've been through in the last few years has been dealt with in the car. Do you know what I mean? Without a doubt.

And when there was a time where, you know, hormones at the same time, of course, you can imagine. So I was at a stage where I was hitting perimenopause as they were starting to have their hormonal shifts. And so it became the house of hormones. No wonder Granddad stayed in the garden. Honestly. And so sometimes it would be, there would be tears and sometimes I would drive home from that school run. Marnie would be quiet, there would be tears. And then I would drive home from that school run, Marnie would be quiet, there would be tears, or there'd be... And then I would get home and I would sit in the car and just decompress for about an

hour. Sometimes I'd have a good cry and then go in the house to deal with the rest of the day. But it's so, when I look back in that now, it's so weird because at the moment we're in a musical theater phase. And so, and there's, it's just harmonies on the way, you know, it's so weird because at the moment we're in a musical theatre phase. And so, it's just harmonies on the way. And if me and Marnie are in the car on our own, because Flo's busy or Flo doesn't have to go in or whatever, then Marnie will sit in the front and then it's six and some girly musicals that we can both harmonize to. The

best thing I do is just listen to her singing and over the years, you know, she always says, I can't sing, I can't sing. Well, she didn't used to be able to, and she's got better and better. And I just sit and listen, like with this pride of like, wow, you've been working on that, haven't you? So yeah, it's lovely. And do you share like things that you can see like that?

It feels like you really, you're not like one of those kind of moms that's like, well, I don't get what my kids are into. You really enjoy sharing the stuff with them. Yeah, it's, we, Elaine Page on a Sunday, Radio 2, like that's just, that stays, I mean, obviously you as well. It'd be difficult for you to say, that's for young kids, that's not for me,

Elaine Page on Radio 2. No. Who's this new guy, Elaine Page? So no, so it's basically, we are, you know, it's quite a musical theatre household at times and of course then Tom will come in because he trained in musical theatre, he'll come in with a harmony that's somewhere else and you know, my dad just has to walk in the door and look at it all. And he must just think this is mental, I'm going back. I'm going back.

This has been absolutely amazing. And I just wanted to say, I mean, I wasn't fully aware of your situation, but the way you speak about it is so inspiring, so open. And I think it will be really important for people to listen to going through this and how you've dealt with it. It's a real sort of, really inspiring.

So you should be really proud of what you've done. There's a lot of love coming out of you and your family just from this chat. Yeah. Thank you so much. And I was ashamed. We're gonna have to edit the thing out about him liking James A. Castor.

That will go. Just so you know. We can't have that in the podcast, but apart from that, it's been great. Thank you. Where is your play starts in September? Play starts September at the Young Vic, entertaining Mr. Sloan.

Thank you, honestly, that's been an amazing conversation, really important, so well done, Tamsin. Thank you, Tamsin. Thank you, take care. Tamsin Alfwaite. There you go, Josh. I didn't know that about her children. That's genuinely brilliant. She is a national treasure. I didn't know that about her children. It's a genuinely brilliant.

She's a she is a national treasure. I thought she spoke brilliantly and thank you to her for doing it. It's a very tricky thing to talk about with her being so mental. And I think sometimes actually, if you if you just speak to someone in a quite a straightforward way about it with personal experience, it's a way more simpler, you know, and less stressful than it needs to be. Because normally, this kind of topic is just too mad extreme views arguing in the street. And most of the people arguing

about it aren't personally involved in someone with you know, going through that. So it's great. And you know, I would add Rob, I would find her house too much. I think you'd be down at the end of the old cab driver chain. I'll get re in the bloody shed. Yeah, I mean, she lost me at Slow Cooker, to be honest. No, absolutely brilliant. Thank you, Tamsin, and we will be back on Tuesday.

Cheers, bye bye.