Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S11 EP13: Paul C. Brunson

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant relationship expert, entrepreneur and presenter - Paul C. Brunson. Parenting Hell is a Spotify Podcast, available everywhere every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You have your Starbucks, venty, because, you know, sleep deprivation. You meet your best friend. She asks you how it's going. You immediately begin to laugh. Then cry. Then laugh cry? That's totally normal, right? She smiles.

You hug. There's no one else you'd rather share this with. You know, three and a half hour sleep is more than enough. Starbucks, it's never just coffee. Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Widdickham. Welcome to Parents in Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent,

which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting. Each week, you'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice, and of course, tales of parenting woe. Because let's be honest, there are plenty of times where

none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parents in Hell with... Zadie, can you say Rob Beckett? Rob Beckett. And can you say Josh Whittaker? Rob Victor. Very good. I like that.

Zadie, who's two-year-old saying your names. We're long-time listeners, and I've been looking forward to doing this for years. We recently got to see Rob in... Um, when was the email sent? Give me a clue. Today, uh, three minutes to eight, they knew what they were doing. We recently saw him in South End.

Paul. Just weeks before our second daughter was born. We're seeing Josh in. Bournemouth. Correct. And it will be our first night out since she was born. Thanks for laughs, Sophia and Josh. There we go.

Oh, they seem nice. They seem nice. I think I'm doing Bournemouth on Sunday. Oh, this Sunday? How's the tour going? I really enjoy. it, Rob. I've done five dates. Bedford was boiling. Well, this is what's been happening in venues and a lot of public buildings.

So a lot of theatres and stuff are run by council where heating's done at head office. So sometimes they go into like winter, basically they'll go, right, we're going to turn the winter heating on on the 15th of September, no matter the weather. Right. So Canterbury, Canterbury. That was two nights of Canterbury. Canterbury is probably one of the best gigs in the country. Yeah, you just go, this is fucking. The room's great. This might not just be my best tour. This might be the best tool that's ever happened.

Yeah. Did you go at the door to stay in the dressing room that is named after the guy does the panto every year? Yeah, it's fucking mental because it's got a chaise long. What, I don't get what they're for, Shays, long. They're just not comfortable. That's so uncomfortable. What's the point of a Chez-in-on?

It's just long. It's just long. What's the point? Just Shay. What is the point of a Shaz-Long? I'm going to. actually Google that. Yeah.

You can't sleep because I had to because I've got, I needed a nap, right, on day two. Yeah. Because I was kicked out, get out the hotel. You can't sleep on a chaise loange. No, exactly. So I had to do my inflatable bed next to a chaisealong. The inflatable bed, I think, such,

I just think it's too depressing to have. I'd rather not sleep. Are you sleeping on it? Well, not a night. Just to be, I'm not staying there. It wasn't like, well, I've got to be two nights in a row. Just stay in this room. I mean, mental to get a hotel.

when I'm in the same theatre too no I have an hour long nap before the show I think do you know what it is I think it's a throwback when having a big soft sofa was a bit slobby so it was like a way to recline but still be like what have you got at the end of your bed have you got a piece of furniture use condoms um empty blue bottles what have you got uh yeah at the end of bed I've got nothing it's just just drop off into nothing it just drop off into nothing it just I think that's So we had a chaise-long for a period that we'd use for... To put clothes on. You put clothes on.

Basically, what I'm talking about is where you sit when you put your socks on. You know what I mean? I don't think that's what the Chez-Slaunch was made for. But we sold the Chez-Lange. And now we've just got... We've said it in about nine different ways. I know. Ches-Mash.

We've sold the Chez-Lange. I actually sat on a Chez-Lange. launch yesterday. So if you not got, what do you, where do you put your socks on? My feet. I just sit on the edge of the bed

and put my socks on. What kind of fucking media elite world are you living in that you've got an extra space for shoe, the sock pulling on? People have chairs in bedrooms. Ottoman.

What, sorry, I don't know what's going on there. An Ottoman. What's an Ottoman? Is that like a big, um, trunk?

That's the kind of thing you'd have at the end of the bed sometimes, an ottoman, yeah. It's like a storage unit that's a bench that you sit on

but there's drawers in it. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. That's much more usable than ches-launch. Yeah, but a lot of people just have a chair in the room. Having the chais-long at the end of the bed is no different for having a chair in the room. I sat on a chaise-launch yesterday. Did you? Guess who's chais-launch?

Tom Allen's. No, it's... Oh, I'm so sure about that. They're dead, and it's one of the most... Recently? ...important men in science ever. Albert Einstein. No.

Well, why was I'll be in his chaise-lange? Well, what the fuck else is it, Stephen for, Stephen for Hawking? He did have a chaise lounge. He had a wheelchair. You're not getting in the wheelchair to go on a chaise lounge. You might as well to stay in the wheelchair. He's all got, he's all plugged in.

You'll have to, I'll spend all that money on a bit of tech and you're sticking hawking on a chaise lounge. Alan Turing. No. How about, um, I'll give you a clue. Fleming.

Fleming. I'll give you a clue. His name's Charles. Darwin. Yes. Well, I'm sorry, but why are you having a go at me for guessing Einstein? It's quite unlike you sat on Charles Darwin's Shays long.

He's lived in Bromley. I didn't know that. We were in, basically, we were in all day on Sunday, and the girls were going mad, so he went, why don't he go somewhere? So he said, let's go to Charles Darwin's Shays Long. No, he's a house. You can visit, it's an English heritage. You can visit his house.

So he visited his house. And I would say, I mean, I don't want to have a go with it as a tourist destination, but you've really got to be into Charles Darwin because the house is all right I think people's houses in general are a bit of a non-starter because the whole point is that I quite want to see John Lennon's house

that are mendips in Liverpool but at the end of the day it's just a two up two down who we got today we've got Paul C. Bronson today and I should say didn't turn out like I'd imagined so much more entertaining Yes. We thought he might be quite serious.

We thought it might be a bit dire of a CEO serious. But actually, he sidestepped us with one of the weirdest opening chats ever. Strapin for the weirdest opening to any interview we've ever done. No, no one's, no one will guess. Nobody will guess what he likes to do for a laugh. Before he goes for a deep dive. was so entertaining, like, I thought, oh, he's going to be like, we've interviewed people before where they're very serious about parenting. Yeah, absolutely. And they think that we're a couple

of idiots. But he was really came to our level. Yeah, he really came to our level. So, should we just, I mean, I don't think we need to build it up anymore. People are very close to placing plus 30 seconds at this stage. Just, just bring him on. Welcome Paul C. Brunson to the podcast. Now Josh, like I don't want you to feel like a gooseery here, but it feels like me and Paul have got this sort of distant but close deep connection from doing celebs go dating for the last few years. Whereas me and you are very, we've got quite a close connection, Rob, but we're very distant as people. I never actually see Paul in person or work with him in person, but I've done voiceover for years on the show. So it feels like I know you really well.

Yeah, you know, it's weird for me too, because I was telling my wife actually this morning. I said, this will be the longest I've ever talked to Rob in seven years. Because I never really, I never have to do all the PR stuff. And then like, I came to, I think I met you once at that. They do the launch events of all the celebs, but it's quite awkward for me because they just come up to me and know, you slacked them all off. Well, what have you said about me? What have you said?

I'm like, oh, God. And then like, so it's quite a tense exchange. And also that particular one, I don't know if you remember, but I set off a fart bomb in that one. Do you remember? Yes. Yeah. And Dean Gaffney was there. It was a very strange set.

James Locke, I think, was there, Dean Gatney? James Locke. And also Allison Hammond, so I was setting up. And actually, this is truly, truly what happened. Yeah, this is mad. In the left corner of my eye, I saw you walking up, Rob. And I was like, oh, my God, is Rob Beckett? I've never really talked to this guy. I want to have a conversation with him.

But then to the right, I saw Allison walking, and I knew I had to drop this fart bomb because I had to time it so that it looked like it was Anna Williamson, who was actually farting. So I had to. I didn't expect the interview to start like this. Was it the noise or was there a smell as well? Was it actually like a joke shop smell?

It's horrendous. It was horrendous. So it literally, so I dropped it dropped. And then I was like, okay, it's dropped. Let me turn around. Robbie was gone, right? Because he was done. But it was so stinky that it actually everyone left.

Everyone left the entire room. It was perfect. Because I didn't have you down as a practical joker, Paul. It was close from like teenage boy. Not very on brand, I'd. It's not part of your brand. What did you say? The stink bomb, as we call them, fart bomb.

I love to have fun. Like, I love to play jokes and pranks. I'm pranking everyone. And I think it's because people don't assume it's me doing the prank. Yeah, 100%. Because I still even told me now and I still don't believe you did it. I thought that as being Gaffney or someone. The fart bomb is what I'm known for.

I'm known for the fart bomb. I'd say the public would disagree that that's what you're known. Exactly. So once, once I had. I had 400 bottles of Fart Spray. Piedi to do a lube. 400 bottles of fart spray. I have 400 bottles of fart spray.

They were all labeled as cologne and perfume. And I had them sent to Anna, for her podcast in Louisa, I had them sent for, it was a special event they were doing. So I just sent the 400 over there, the box. over there, the box. And literally, people, and then I had someone there to pass out these sprays. Fucking hell. Chemical warfare.

This is Matt. And you're not even there to enjoy the joke. No, no, no. I have someone recording. So it was passing out recording and you have all these people spraying themselves thinking that it's perfume and its fart spray. It was just, oh, it was epic. This is not how I thought we'd start.

So what other pranks do you do, Paul? Is it just, is the fart bomb your one? Many. Some I can't disclose, but the fart prank is that's my, like, that's the cornerstone. That's the calling card. That's the calling card right there. I didn't know. I thought it was a one-off for the press launch.

I didn't know that it was your thing. Oh, no. It happens all the time, all the time. That's why we're recording it remotely, Rob. If that door behind you opens, Rob, I'd have someone thrown it. I thought they locked me in here for sound. It must be just because one of the agents dropped art bombs on celebscote 80. Have you unleashed one on set for Marriott at First Site?

Absolutely, all in the green rooms. Absolutely. I'm not. Of course. Of course. I've done it all throughout the green rooms. Everyone but Tom. You've never done, you've never done the wedding.

I've married at first sight. You've never gone. You're not there for the wedding, are you? We are banned from the weddings? That wouldn't stop you, guys. Because of the fart spray. I mean, bro. No, we are because we would be a distraction.

The first year we did go. You fucking would be the way you're married by men. This thing's for shit. people trying to catch the bouquet just a bit of fresh lily oh my god yeah it's terrible it's terrible so you've got another question about pranks

so do you want to get onto parenting Josh well what's your sat up with kids and then the next question the supplementary question is have you fart bombed them so I'm banned the fart sprays now banned in the house because I use it on my boys all the time

I can't express you how bad the smell is honestly when he did it at the press lunch. We were in, like, the outside bit of a cinema, and he dropped it and everyone just ran away. The smell was so intense. It's horrendous. Where are you sourcing it from? From the States. Trump must have put a tariff on that. Oh, my gosh. I have a supplier in the States, and so in the house, I'm banned. But is it just sent by mail, or is that not allowed? Has it brought in? No, no, it's sent by mail. Sent by mail. But yeah, I have sprayed their trousers. I've sprayed their trousers before going to school and uh really at what age oh my god i did that that was three years

ago so uh what was that 11 11 year old oh what secondary school you flew up on it you're not supposed to do that poor you're going to be someone who's really interesting people's emotions you're like the serious sort of deep thinker and emotionally supportive dad now you're making your kids trousers think as shit they're sending them to the secondary school but isn't that hilarious though losing. Oh my God. When they reach the point where they start to tear up, because they're, they're so sad at the joke that I'm going to pull on them. I stop. Once they start crying, that's a good. So how old are they now? You've got teenage boys. Is that right? Yeah. So I have a 14-year-old and then an 11-year-old. Right. Okay. Cool. So they're becoming men now, which is sort of like

a big step up. There's sort of that teenage boy into man the next few years. Oh, my guy. And the sheer size. You know, so my 14-year-old, I don't know how. the hell these kids grow so fast he is now basically my height so i'm like six six one so he's my height yeah then my 11 year old is now taller than my wife and he's coming for all of us oh right it's so bizarre to see them so large you know yeah yeah it's up to blocs just walking about your house no wonder you're not farts praying then they could death you exactly now i'm scared i'm scared of the big one now are you based in the UK now then we are so this has been the biggest really change in our family. So we've been coming back and forth for seven years. But the last three

years, we became official residence. So we were able to put the boys in school. We feel like we're part of the fabric. And we absolutely love living in the UK. Is your wife American? Yes. Yes. Presumably, it's late enough that they've got American accents. You're not worried you're going to be bringing up kids with English accents. You know what's so wild about this is so they have technically, they've been here for, the youngest has been here for over half of his life, right? the oldest one's been here for half of his life they should have accents but they hold on to the American nests

of it I think for cool points at school yeah particularly after I've done the fart bomb thing they're really scrabbling for cool points at that point that's just how American smell actually yeah and everyone loves it I'm American and I like American things we had shake shack fast actually we did we do

are you based in London where did you move to in the UK don't have to give you the exact location We proudly represent South London. Oh, like, wrong. I'm me, you must be near me. We are South London and love it. Truly, like, this is where we're meant to be. Nice.

So do you think your kids will go back at all? Or do you think this is like, now, do they feel like they're at home? They feel like they're at home. They've talked about maybe university going to the States, but then returning. So it's really interesting to talk to them because just the other, last week, actually, I was asking my youngest, where would you like to live, you know, when you get older? And he said, you know, I'm thinking, Dad. I'm thinking maybe either London or Paris or, you know, Prague.

It's just fascinating to hear him talk about these areas where in the States, you know, he would have said 20 miles down the road, but not necessarily these different countries. So that's been fascinating. And where were you in America before? So I'm from New York. My wife is from Virginia, but we most recently lived in Washington, D.C. Right. So you weren't at home or either of you anyway.

You were in the middle. We were in the middle. And it was crazy, bizarre, wild. because when we were there, it was the Trump administration for the most part. We saw that January 6th, that insurrection. Oh, wow. Yeah, so we literally watched it happen. Oh, wow.

Because the road that we live on in Washington, D.C., and we still have the house there, it leads to the White House. It's a couple miles, but then it leads to the White House. And then we border Maryland. So what was happening during January 6 is the evening, so January 5th, the mayor of Washington, D.C. says, okay, put your blinds down, don't go out. outside. We're freaked out. We're scared. The kids are scared. Fucking out. How old are your kids at this point? It's about five years ago, is it? Yeah, about five years ago. Yeah. And so you think about this is that the mayor has just told you you can't leave your house tomorrow. It's just super scary. You're seeing, so it was

the commercial areas were being bordered up, restaurants were being shut down. And then the morning of January 6th, we saw these massive pickup trucks rotting past our house. You see men with Confederate flags, shotguns hanging on the outside. Where are your kids at this point? In your house? They're in the house. We're peeking through the window. Chucking fart bombs out the window.

Did you let them look? Did you think, how am I going to manage this? Yeah, it was one of those where I felt helpless. Yeah. As a parent, it's one of those where you never want to feel like you cannot help your child. Yeah. Quite honestly, that was probably the only moment I can think of where I felt. entirely helpless as a parent.

I felt as if those trucks, if they stopped and they came to our house, there was nothing I could have done to protect the family. So if they're going to burst through the White House and take that, what's stopping them doing all the other street houses in the street and the whole of Washington? Exactly. I mean, it's only a few steps away from the Civil War of, like, I know it sounds a bit over the top, but like if they're doing that to the White House and then they go,

I'll tell you what, to protect the White House, why don't we do all the houses nearby? And then that's how little enclave to protest, they're so vulnerable. Yeah. And Rob, to that point is we thought that when they left, we thought they would do exactly that. They would hit the homes, you know, that trail back to Maryland. So that was the moment literally where we said, you know what, we're leaving. We're not coming back. Yeah. Marriott at first sight's getting recommissioned out, I imagine as well. That was not bad. That was not bad. When your investors, customers and workers demand more from your business, make it happen with SAP. The AI-powered capabilities of SAP can help you streamline costs, connect with new suppliers, and manage payroll,

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It's a sweet summer twist on iced coffee. Your cold brew is ready at Starbucks. It was wild because when I first got to the UK, I'll never forget it. I thought I would be here for three months. I thought it was three months. I would do celebs go dating, the show that I've never heard about before. Even you stayed, we normally whip through the agents, but you managed to put your anger in. Oh, my God.

That was seven years ago. And it's been such a blessing. these projects that I've been offered. You've done got a huge podcast as well. Yeah, your podcast is huge, isn't it? I mean, this one is huge as well. You know what's interesting? So this is parenting hell, right?

Every time I look at the charts, I'm like, oh, hell, there's parenting hell. They're beating us again. But, yeah, I mean, as you both know, this is an amazing space. Podcasting is an amazing, unfiltered, unproduced space. This is heavily produced, actually. Everything I asked me has been through what really. We have four different commissioners and a production team. We've done a bit of market research and all that kind of stuff.

Really focused on the stink bomb stuff. That's what we were told. Focus on the fart bombs. Let's talk about the success of Married at First Side because it's such a huge show. Like it's one of the biggest shows. You know, I'd say Channel 4 bakeoff and then Married at First Side is like absolutely massive.

Yeah. What's it like to do? to be a part of? It's an incredible blessing, but at the same time, you know, there's challenges, obviously, you know, they come with a project like that. Everything changed, quite honestly, during COVID, because I was on a series on Merritt at First Site prior to this new change in format. And whenever I talk about that, people say, I don't remember that series.

That's the reason why there was this massive change. And what happened was everyone was watching the Australian format during COVID. Yeah. And the Australian format had dinner parties and commitment ceremonies and there was a lot more explosiveness. And we didn't have that prior to. And with everyone watching that, with the channel and what the production company here did, is they said, hey, look, we're going to change the format. Once they changed that format, the show just took off like a rocket here. The benefit of that is that it's this water cooler conversation that happens with Married at First Sight.

So when it's on air, it feels like everyone's talking about it. everyone has an opinion about it and that's good but then it's also bad everyone's talking about it everyone has an opinion about it so i'm literally getting stopped on the street like i'm bringing my boys to school i'm being stopped why did you match show and so and so and so yeah because obviously it's that thing of it's like sort of a social experiment and you're trying to help them also it is an entertainment show so both of them need to marry up so you know sometimes you know someone might not be with a perfect person or whatever but is that what you get stopped a lot for is why did you make as if you're the only one decided.

Yes, and that is the number one. Why did you match so-and-so with so-and-so? I can't believe this, Paul. This is crazy. This is leaving Chris. It's 7 a.m. We shouldn't be talking about this. It's 7 a.m.

But for the most part, though, it's a lot of love. And what I've noticed, too, with the fellas, the fellows will never, never say I watch the show, ever. They'll say, my misses watches it. I get that after the celebs go date. as well. They always say, I don't watch it, but my missus watches it and you're quite good on it. You know what I mean? It's always like a backhanded

comfortable. I like, you watch it. Exactly. Because they'll stop you. They'll know you exactly, right? And they'll say, but I don't watch it though. But that, you know, I appreciate. I appreciate it all. Do your kids watch it? They, yeah, yes and no. It's not really a teen. That's a bit of, what are they into? What's their thing? Because I'm fascinated by

at that age, 1140. Are they going that down the roadman route? They're South London. They're 14, you know what I mean, that kind of thing. Hoodie in 35 degrees. Oh, my God. They have adopted all of American YouTube in TikTok. Right. So you think of every big YouTuber in the States.

I show speed, that kind of stuff. Oh, my, I show speed is like, yeah, it's everything. Do you know that is, Josh? Of course not. Oh, wow, really? It's mad you don't know me. It's almost like you've got a, it's like California man. He's basically a streamer and he is huge.

like he's the second generation. After all the KSI and the Logan and Jake Paul, he's come through now and he streams himself sort of 24-7. He travels the world. He wears Cristiano Ronaldo tops. He's really fast. He can do backflips. But he just gets thrown into a world and it's chaos really. I actually feel a bit worried for him because he's traveling around. He's in like Serbia and Bosnia at the moment. He's quite vulnerable. He tells everyone where he is and everyone's grabbing at him. It's almost like he's trapped in his own success bubble. He's almost in a Truman show of his own making. Yes, yeah, that's a great way to qualify it. You know, but then on top of it, I think he's an incredible athlete. Yeah. And I think that's undervalued in terms of actually how quick he is. He beat, what was it, Ashton Hall, he beat him. And he's vertical lead with a basketball player, and he's incredibly, and he's only 21. He really could have picked a sport, I imagine, you know.

He could have been incredible. But, you know, in time, I think, just gave him what, top 100 creator in the world. So he's one of those where he's a phenomenon. But my boys love all of. American YouTube, like Mr. Beast, like it's all of that. And what I find it'd be so interesting is that they don't even know how to find a channel, like a television channel. Yeah. They've never turned to a television channel in their life. They're not switching on loose women when they're having their lunch. Like I am, aren't they?

Neither are the ITV commissioners, to be honest. Never mind. Two teenage boys that have moved from Washington. I say that. You don't know, Colleen Nolan. You're telling me they don't want to watch Janet Streetport is, you of the week. Janet Streetport talk about whether there's too much kissing in public. When you produce the word? Oh, my God. They are not.

Is Aidan Ross another one? Is Aidan Ross a streamer person? Yeah, Aidan Ross. Because he kind of fits in the music scene. And my oldest is now into music. Right. It's hilarious because he'll ask me like, like, Dad, you know who Kendrick Lamar is? I was like, yeah.

The world knows who Kedric Lamarais. Yeah, I might know that one, yeah. And so, are you heavily involved? Like, because obviously there's some parents, like, you know, when I was playing computer games or whatever as a kid, that was, I suppose, the equivalent of a thing that was not in my parents' childhood that was in my childhood. But you are across it all, and are you involved because you are interested,

you're involved because you feel it's kind of your duty as a parent. That's a great question. I feel, I think here's a great question. That's a top 10 podcast question, that is. Your researcher did a great job. This team we've got are unbeliever, 10 or 12 of them, just believing away. Oh, my God. I'm truly a big kid.

We've established that in the first one. So I'm the parent who probably does the inappropriate things in terms of like some of a gamer as well. Yeah. So I was playing Mortal Kombat, you know, with my seven-year-old. Is that still going around? Is that still a going? Well, I'm more so call of duty type person now. But I would do call of duty, you know, with an eight-year-old when you probably shouldn't do that.

Should you really be put in charge of matching people? But it's one of those where I talk about everything with my children. Nothing is filtered in our house. Like I remember when I was doing, this goes out really bizarre, but I was doing research on sexual organs. And I had this chart in my house. And the chart was, because I saw that most women and virtually all men can't distinguish between a vagina and a vulva. Right. Yeah. And so I had this diagram, and my boys are like, what's that? And I was like, oh, it's a vulva. Yeah. And I begin explaining, my wife is there. Okay, this is a vulve. This is a vagina. This is what

happens. And so in my household growing up, I don't think my father could say vagina today. Like, I don't think you can say it, you know what I mean? It can smell vulva, never mind, find it. He drove one. Yeah. You drove one, yeah. You drove one for years. But so, I guess to answer that question is that I genuinely love it.

Yeah. Because I had you down as like, you know, having deep, like my questions were going to be like, well, do you have that playful side of your kids? Because we always see you as that sort of like, sometimes intense sort of intellectual sort of deep feelings guy. But that you obviously, so you marry that up with a. real sort of immature sort of silliness of fart bombs as well as having those serious conversations how do you jump between that then it's like the one show there's no joins for us that's parenting you know when i think about emotions like so every sunday in my home we play reggae

ska dance hall like we're very jamaican centric in the household because of my heritage but in that we will literally have a conversation around the song. So last weekend we were playing reggae, it was Bob Marley's crazy baldheads, right? So my son is joking me. He's like, you're a crazy ballhead dad. I was like, but do you know what that song actually means? And so we start examining the lyrics. And I would ask, what do you think Bob's emotion was when he wrote that? Why did he feel that way? And it's one of those where we'll jump into the seriousness, but at the same time, they'll joke me that, hey, dad's a crazy ballhead. Yeah, and you say, you need to worry, it's coming your way as well.

It's all in the jeans. I'm just like, it is coming to you, whether you like it or not. Although now, the funny thing is, is my boy, it's crazy. At 11, my boy was like, I'm just going to Turkey. Oh, I was like, yeah. He's like, I'm going to Turkey. He's like, I'm going for my teeth. I'm going for everything.

I was like, okay. And so are you really open then? Like, is it a really open dialogue? Is that what you kind of teach, if that makes sense? Within our household, it's an open dialogue. So what we try to hold to, one of the rituals, is family dinner every night together. And family dinner is a no-judgment zone. You could talk about anything.

And you won't be judged. You won't be punished, actually, for anything that you say. So dinner becomes this open conversation where we'll talk about George Floyd, Donald Trump, you know, politics to my son went to a dance and he has eight phone numbers and what that means. It's just open space. We tried to maintain that. Who cooks out of you and your partner that is it like whoever's in or, because you must have a busy schedule. Does it happen every night? It's terrible. Deliveroo is the cook now. Welcome to South London. I'm a diamond member on Deliveroo. It's one of those where that's the saccharacterious. That's the

I think, but almost every night we make time for it. So I even try to work my schedule so that I will, I'll get back on time. If I'm filming and I can't make it, my wife typically will wait for me. So sometimes Mary at first sight, those commitment ceremonies, we won't end until midnight or 1 a.m. And she will wait for me. Oh, really? Yes.

And we'll at least have a meal together when we get back. So we try to hold on to that. The other thing is that if I'm traveling for a project and I'm gone for over 10 days, we go together. We always go together. So we always try to lock that in. So for us, it's just time on task. The more we can spend time together, that's the most important key. And when you're that busy, actually cooking the food, that can slip, but then just get to live ruin, but you still get to have that moment together.

It doesn't matter who's cooked it kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Does she work at the moment? Or is she more focused with the kids? What's going on? Because that's hard. If she's got to get up and work the next day and she's waiting for you, it's a night. It's just hard balance. So she works with me. So what we've done is, so I'm on-screen

talent for different shows and obviously the podcast, but then we've built a business behind it, right? And she's working on that business. She's on the go. I'm on the go. But at the same time, you know, it's a blessing to be in a creative space because you do have a little bit of control over the schedule. You know, you may work on a Saturday and Sunday, but may be off then on a Tuesday. You know, for example, when I leave with you all, I'm taking my youngest to the tape to hang out with him for a little bit and then we're going to all have dinner together. So it's one of those where we try to just build it in so that every day there's time that we're spending together. And how with your kids approaching teenage age, are they A kicking

against that yet, or B, what are you going to do when they're 16, 17, 18 and they don't want to do that anymore? Oh, man, I'm so scared of that. It's down the park in South London at 10 and you're going, when are you coming back to you together? He's like, it's not happening. I'm trying to get a ninth number, eh? It's so wild because my, so at 14, my oldest will still on occasion hold my hand, right? Which I think is the sweetest thing in the world. So I typically walk them to their bus in the morning.

So he used to always hold my hand. He was known. He was the one that would always hold my hand. And then the last year, he'll drop my hand when his friend. are around, right? But it's the whole one to it. So I feel him slipping and that is killing me. That is killing me. And I think what it's made me do is it's made me hover on my youngest even more. Yeah, so he's getting the brunt of it. Oh my gosh. So I'm constantly hugging and kissing my youngest. And he doesn't, and he's the one who doesn't want to be hugged and

kiss. He's never held my hand in his life. So I don't know what's going to happen. But I feel it is coming. I saw someone talking about parenting. It's like your job as a parent to give your kids roots so they know where they're from and they feel secure but then you've so got to get to the age where you've got to give them wings from until then go and that's the stage right now where 14 15 is starting to you know do stuff that impacts his life going forward of like exams or picking subjects going to uni or not or working it's all those things that you know you want to give a device and help them with but really they've got to make their own mistakes and crack on with it but as their dad you want to be their holding their hand that's a great analogy you know

the wings that that's i i see that you know and that'll stay with me i appreciate that i know i've nixed it or someone else so don't affect me something on tiktop and so do you feel like it's interesting you say like that's a great analogy to robin and stuff because obviously that is kind of your world and that's kind of ways you think are you trying to pass on knowledge and how much you're trying to pass on to your kids or are you worried that you're kind of more reactive to what they need or are you going towards them with stuff You've got to try and slip it in subconsciously, I imagine, because no one wants to hear stuff from their parents, even if they know it's the right stuff. You know, they just think, oh, shut up, Dad. But, you know, you are an expert in this kind of stuff and life. They'll joke me on that. They'll say, oh, it's the love doctor talking to me again, you know. They will always, but the way that I look at it is, is, yes, I'm training them. I'm trying to arm them. I'm trying to teach them. You know, I'm trying to provide that safe, you know, foundation, that safe space. And I think part of what's allowed us to be, I feel like we've been effective so far,

is that my wife and I are on the same page with this. And also because we had our children a little bit later, I think, on average. And we had to struggle to have our kids because we went through eight years of trying to have children. Oh, blimey. I wonder you know what of all over is. I know with precision. with precision. It was eight years.

And then we had to eventually go to IVF. Then we went through multiple cycles of IVF. We had one that was successful. Then we had a miscarriage. You know, so it was one of those where we had not just the amount of time and energy and emotion that was tied to it. But even if you just think about the cost of going through all those, it's one of those where there was so much that we had to give up. in order to have our children during that entire time

we were constantly talking about well what type of parent do you think that will be and how do we do this and how do we do that? So there was a lot of like pre-discussion, pre- Yeah, of course it's eight years

of looking towards it and working towards it so you had a lot of time to sort of almost get a battle plan together and was that in America because in the UK you get IVF on NHS after a certain time I think but in America is it all sort of self-funded?

It's self-funded. know so wild about that is I have run into one, two, three, four people in the UK that went through IVF at the same clinic that we went to in the States. There are a lot of Brits that go to the United States for their IVF treatments. Oh, really? Yes. It's like any kind of purchase in a weird way in that you're shopping around clinics, reading about it online, comparing reviews, all that kind of stuff. It is. And today, I mean, that was 14, 15 years ago when we did it, or actually 15 when we were successful, but going back over 20 years when we started.

How old are you, Paul? Do you want me asking? You know, everyone is like, how old are you? I'm 50. Fuck, yeah. You look great. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. How about it was outrageous, Josh? It's okay. It's okay. That's really ruined my day. That's put a fucking steak through my day now.

And now I've got to look at you and do voiceover, and he's fucking 50. And I'm sat in his little booth looking worse than him. Don't do it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Sorry. Go back to it. Now. Now, oh my God. What you could do now. Like literally. So the technology is so much more advanced now. You could pick gender, eye color, IQ. It is scary. It is super scary what you could do now. So are both your kids IVF then?

Yes. And what's wild about that is the youngest who acts like the oldest could be the oldest. Oh, wow. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, the way that it works. Yeah. because you have just freeze the eggs, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. And so why were the Brits going to America to do it?

Had they used their sort of any NHS stuff and then they were self-funding, but it was better to do it in America than the UK, basically. From what they've told me is that it was just more effective. There was a higher, like, take rate at this particular clinic. So we ended up choosing a very, very good clinic. In essence, what ends up happening is that many people are not successful in getting pregnant, but then also for that child to be able to go through. birth. So oftentimes what happens with IVF is that the child will be lost in the

miscarriage, as happened to us once. So this particular clinic is just known for, you know, high tick rates, high pregnancies, high births. So I think that's one of the reasons why. And how do you keep your head or how do you mentally deal with that journey, not knowing that it will even have the destination you want, if you know what I mean? Like was there part of you that was like, I don't know if I can deal with even setting out on this journey because it's going to be too intense and too difficult and might not. No guarantees, is it? Yeah, no guarantees.

The first cycle, we were blind to it all. You know, so it was just like, oh, let's do it. I'm sure it'll work. But by the time you get into your fourth or fifth cycle, it becomes not only emotionally, but physically draining, you know, especially in the woman, I had to give my wife three shots every day. So I'm literally, you know, needle, giving her a shot, three different shots every single day for weeks and weeks on end. And it's one of those where, so you have the physical pain, she's bruising, et cetera. You have the emotional, unfortunately society still puts a lot

of shame on couples who have not yet had a child. Yeah, questions all the time. When are you two? And even though if you could have been trying quietly for years. That was the worst to have your grandmother basically say, like, what are you going to do it? When are you going to do it? What are you going to do it? We're like, Grandma, we're actually trying. Yeah, you can't say that because then you're the one who then makes the mood change. And you're feeling, well, hang on, I've done nothing apart from tell her to shut out.

But then everyone starts feeling sorry for you and then that's awkward because you're getting that, oh, you know, the same conversation the whole time. It's such a mindfield, isn't it? So basically the answer is, if there is a young couple that haven't had kids yet, just shut the fuck up until they mention anything. Exactly. That's the advice. Would you say that's good advice?

That is great advice. It doesn't matter what I would say. If you see a young couple that have been together a little while, don't ask about weddings or babies. They'll tell you when it's happening. Yes. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design

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media storm that followed. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. And so when you did it, are there other people that have been through IVF and stuff? Like, did you talk to people who'd already been through it? Or did you just kind of go in, not blindly, but kind of? We did. We had no, like, IVF mentors. And we didn't know other than our doctors. And we didn't know, other than our doctor. So that also made it scary. And then also, I mean, it was during that time, we were dealing with lots of stresses at work, which now we realize played a role in our inability to have a child naturally, absolutely. Well, that's one of the things with IVF is like, don't put yourself under unnecessary stress. You're like, short of like dealing with a relative who's got, like, is ill,

this is one of the most stressful things you can put yourself under. So it's very difficult to go and also don't get stressed. And also you've got to go to work to pay for it. No one's got. massive amount of money to go, right, well, we're not going to be stressed now. So let's pay thousands of pounds for RVF and then also take a career break. You know, you need the money coming in. You have to stay on that kind of, that, what is it, rat race, like in the cycle. Yeah, it's treadmill. In the treadmill and you can't get off of it.

And then, you know, once you're three, four cycles in, you think to yourself, is that just sunk cost? Or do we continue going? Well, it's, yeah, when do you walk away from the poker table, isn't it? It's all, it must be a really, really tough process to go through. It's tough. Did you almost walk away at any? point or did you know that we were committed to just continually try i think once uh i'm not sure what cycle it was it could be like a three or fourth cycle where we got pregnant the first time and lost

the child and it was one of those where it gave us a little bit of hope that it could happen amazing you managed to have two children after all that time and you know the miscarriage to have two boys close in age is incredible really it was a miracle i feel like it was a miracle and it's a huge blessing and i think that also stays with me that wasn't that long ago i could still remember injecting my wife and her crying and me thinking, I don't want to do this. And I think, you know, that in essence is gratitude. You know, I think gratitude is you could just simply remind yourself of why it is that you love this thing or this entity or this person, whatever it is, so much.

And I think that's where a lot of that gratitude comes from. And then he throws your hand away as he approaches a bus stop and you're like, what the hell do I do that? I literally told him, I said, I could have had a Ferrari. I said, I could have had a Ferrari. You know, and quite honestly, and this is terrible, but my kids found out they were IVF with me blabbing my mouth on television. Oh, really?

Yeah, so I was. They do watch. They do watch. It was, it could have been like this morning or Lorraine. I was talking about the IVF journey, and they were at home that particular day watching. Should I mention that at a dinner table. Even before, I left set, my wife said, your boys need some answers.

You know? Oh, God. And we had to go through this long explanation around why and et cetera. And it ended up being very helpful for them. But what I realized is that for a lot of people, they feel it's shameful to have gone through the IVF process, especially men feel like it's shameful that they've had to go through this process. and they're not man enough to have a child naturally.

And so they choose to not say anything about it. That's fascinating, isn't it? And what about your kids like now? Would they, in a way, it must just make you feel even more wanted than you. Do you know what I mean? In a strange way, it shouldn't be shameful. It should be this huge badge of honour that you've done this. Your parents were so committed to being parents.

Yeah. They went through that because it's such a hard process. Yeah, I mean, well, my kids have gone there. They have an inflated ego because they're like, we were put together. We're perfect. Because literally, when you do it, this is how it was wild, but you have different grade of eggs. They even grade semen. What they're trying to do is they're trying to take the healthiest, best, strongest

semen and match it with the healthiest, strongest best egg. And they do that little petri dish. So, you know, my boys were like, well, what, well, how healthy were? And I was like, well, you were considered grade A. They were like, that's the reason why we're so smart today. So they've taken it. They've gone a whole other direction with it. It's not good.

How many cycles did you go through after the first one to get the second? It was right away. See, and then the stress thing that sort of implies that, like, you know, the pressure off the shoulders that you'd had a healthy child, then everyone's relaxing in the groove and then it went straight off. I do think stress and overworking is such so problematic. You know, people go, it's because of my, you know, it may be sort of arthritis or this or that,

but it all stems originally. I think a lot of it, this is obviously very ill-informed. This is just how I feel about life. I'm not taking as any sort of medical research into this, but I do feel like that. It's such a catalyst for all these other problems is the amount of stress people are living and working under.

I mean, the science supports what you're saying, Rob. That is a sentence that has never been said on this podcast in four years. Finally, the science has gone my life. Science supports you, Rob. So what the stress does, in essence, is it destroys and tears away your immune system. Right. And your immune system is what's trying to fight everything off. Yeah.

And so with your immune system being lowered, you're susceptible to everything. You know, it's interesting. I had, on my podcast, I had Gabor Matei on, and he gave this one stat that has stayed with me. And that is that women, the studies is that there's a group of women who don't talk about the problems that they have in their relationship with anyone. and then there's the other half they do talk about their problems openly right so one is suppressing when it's not the group that's suppressing is four times more likely to die as a result of the stress that then damages their immune system yeah and that is exactly you know what you're saying rob is that the stress is just like it is literally a killer so in a way your dinners with your

kids like being open that's good for your health even though it's deliver so it's not ideal for you out. It's kind of good for your health. You get salads on the liver. Yeah, you can get salads. But like opening up and being honest and not keeping stuff in is good for your health. It is one of the best things that we can do. Yeah. Is to open up. And whatever is on your heart, you think about, you know, so many people have that Sunday night anxiety where they're thinking about all the things at work. But in particular, they're thinking about the relationships, the relationships with their boss, the relationship. with their co-workers, and the things they would like to be able to say

or that they want to be heard, right? And so that's the reason why these conversations and communication, truly, it's everything, it's everything. Do you find sometimes, Paul, because obviously your job is this sort of relationship and life sort of died and expert on these shows, and that's what you did before you was on the TV. Do you think it's called like moral licensing? We're like, but at a home because you sometimes drop the ball because you do it all

at work, you want to get back and relax. Do you feel like sometimes because you're known for? for doing that. You sort of automatic assume you'll be doing it. Do you find sometimes you get home, you're like, actually, I'm not practicing what I preach here because I'm off duty, as it well. Do you catch yourself out sometimes? All the time. All the time. And I'm constantly, I have this almost script in my mind where I'm evaluating, was that theoretically the best thing to do? Yeah. But then I end up, I think it's helpful. It ends up changing my behavior. But then also, and I say this with no exaggeration, my wife is 10 times smarter than me and more knowledgeable than me

in these areas, especially around psychology. It's funny, like, the other day, I did something. I messed up, and I told her, I was like, Jill, I'm sorry. And she looks at me and she says, now you teach people how to apologize all day, every day. And you know that apology sucked. Like, give me a real apology. And so I will then catch myself and say, okay, and then I'll go into what an actual apology is, right? but I'm constantly running that script in my mind and evaluating myself against it.

So obviously a lot of the listeners here are parents and most of they are single parents of this and obviously, but you're in a partnership with mum and dad with the kids kind of thing. Is there any advice you give for people the way to share the duty or talk to each other or deal with each other when there's that pressure of the kids, especially when they're young and a lot of the argument over is like who's the default parent, who's doing the most work, the mental load and all that, those classic arguments. Is there any advice you'd give for those couples at that stage? Yes, and this goes against one of the biggest myths, I think, when it comes to parenting.

And I say, argue in front of your kids. Okay. I am fucking nailing this. It's fine. It's finally supporting Josh. But that is the right move right there. That is it. That is it.

And here's the reason why is because you want to teach your kids how to manage arguments. and that it is okay for you to disagree with someone that you love and that you can still be in disagreement and still love them. You can carry multiple emotions at the same time. That's the beauty of being a human being. Now, what ends up happening most of the time is that parents will step away into another room. But one of the reasons why they step away to another room is because they're arguing is disrespectful to each other. It's actually not effective. And so if you think that you have to walk away because what you have to say is too crass to say in front of your child, then maybe you need to reevaluate how you disagree with your partner.

So I think it's a great litmus test. So I say argue in front of your child. You don't have to come to a resolution. Matter of fact, 69% of challenges that we have in our relationships, we won't resolve. So the question is, is how do you manage it? And it teaches your kids so much about conflict resolution. emotions about how their parents are human beings

so argue in front of your children yeah because if you can't argue in front of them the way you're arguing is not the right way exactly so don't just call them a fucking wanker in front of you try and find a way to verbalise that in an instructive I'm doing this for you kids I'm doing this for you shut those fucking cupboards Rob I don't know Lou I was thinking it you're just going to give on a camp

blanche to say whatever they want but no the actual moral of that is arguing the right way Yes. We set an example for conflict resolution. Yes. Paul C. Brunson strikes again. Before you go, Paul, so Married at First Sight is out in September. How many series is that now?

Seven, maybe six, seven, I think. Maths, UK, is streaming on Channel 4 now, Paul. Yeah, so you can watch all the first six series now. It's still great. It feels like it's still just peaking. It goes from strength to strength to strength. It's one of those where the audience grows, younger people are watching. The older folks are watching.

And I think the reason why is because we do a great job in casting people who are a great cross-section of the UK. So in particular, on this series, you will see your neighbor, you'll see your brother, you might just see yourself, you know, on the show. And I think that's the beauty of it. I'd say it's almost now, it's the premier, like the Champions League. It's a reality show, really. I think it's surpassed Love Island in terms of like the nation's dialogue. That's at its day. Yeah.

I'd say it goes, merit at first sight's joint top with celebs go dating. Oh, sorry, sorry, but that's a given as the joint top. You don't have to mention Roger Federer when you're talking about tennis. It's implicit. The goat to the goats. Do you know what I'm saying? Exactly. Exactly.

I just also say your podcast, do you want to plug your podcast, Paul, that's slightly below us in the charts? Oh, yeah. It's still very high. Still very high. It's still very high. It is called We Need to Talk. And it is one of the fastest growing pie. in the UK, and it's a place to have tough conversations.

The good news for you is we've plateaued, Paul, so you're going to go straight past us. Joe, you're really good at Paul, and I think it's really important. You're very good with sort of mega-named reality stars that sometimes certain parts of the society look down their noses on, like, you know, people from like Geordie Shore and stuff. There's a little bit of a sort of a crass sort of, oh, not them and stuff. Well, actually, they're, you know, very talented human beings that sometimes got gobbled up by an industry and chucked out into tabloids. on Instagram and they've all got a very human story that people can associate with

and I think you give them a platform from to discuss that without them playing up to their performance roles of that kind of person from a reality show and I think it's really interesting rather than just getting them on to churn out the old sort of patter that they do and you actually find out about them and things like that so the podcast is great and there's always a good moment when they're really crying and then they go what the fuck is that smell and then you start laughing he's part bombed him for a fun now Well, I'll tell you where, if you get a package from me, I'm not opening it, Paul. I know. I'm opening anything near you again, Paul.

I'm opening nothing with a South London postmark. We always end with the same question, Paul, which is an interesting one for you. What one thing about your partner, your wife, as a parent, you go, that is just incredible. I couldn't do that. That is, you know, why I'm with you. That's very amazing. And what one thing, even though you're very big on dialogue, annoys you about their parenting that you've never brought up,

that maybe if she was listening now, she'd go, yeah, you've got a point there. So this is where we have the most conflict. I lean into, they are my best friends. Yeah. She leans into, no, I'm the parent. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think we need to meet each other halfway on that. Yeah.

I need to be more of a parent. Oh. And I want her to be more of the besties. Right. In a way, you might balance each other out, hopefully. Yeah. And I think that's what we do. And do you feel any genuine question?

Do you feel any guilt that you have maybe got the more fun role out of the two of those? I do. And I think oftentimes the dads do. You know, and I think it's because we don't have as much time on average. with the children. So when we do show up, it's all fun. Yeah, right? Because it's limited time.

And it is, it's absolutely unfair. It is absolutely unfair. But I think that's how I landed in that role. And what would you say? It's the one thing she does. It's amazing that you're in awe of as a parent. Oh my God. She is the most incredible teacher of them.

What we're doing is we're shaping little people who are going to become big people and make big decisions and have very, incredibly challenging decisions that they have to make. And she is exceptional at the shaping of their mind. You know, I almost wish that I can go back and have her to parent me. You know what I mean? She's exceptional at that. Like, top 1% in the world, you know, at that for sure.

And how she's so good at that, would you say? Was that just a natural, or she's done a lot of research into it and stuff like that, or was it just gut? I think it was all of the above. So in terms of attachment style, she had a secure, attachment from her parents, which has helped. She also, she studied psychology. She's genuinely a nurturer slash like teacher. All of those elements, I think, just add up to, you know, the fight that she had, physically the fight that she had. Also, when we had our second, she was in the emergency

room. You know, she could have passed away on that. So I think all of these pieces just add up to her saying, my focus in life are these boys. That is priority for her. Yeah, see, and I'm just getting buzzwords like roots and wings off TikTok, aren't I? I need to do a bit of that. It's all right, well, we've got away with it so far. The science appalls me, so they'll take that.

Paul, it's been brilliant. Good luck with her, I think, the podcast, maths, the lebs, the lot. It's been an honour. Thank you both. Truly appreciate it. Cheers, mate. Cheers, Paul. Thank you. Paul C. Brunson. What a great guy. 50.

That killed me that. He's 50. He looks great. So great. And he sounds great. He's got, I'm going to say it. He had the best voice on show there of the three of them. Oh, God.

Yeah, he had a great voice, isn't he? Great face, great body. That was pure what we're looking for in an interviewee. Funny, not what you're expecting. Yeah. Then some great advice. Some deep stuff. Deep stuff.

Then some real nice stuff. And then I snuck in a little punchline at the end about the TikToks. I like, Joe, what? That was fucking. No wonder we're so bloody. Yeah. No wonder we're off. than that prick in the chart.

No one listens to this bit. Let's blow some smoke up our asses. We're fucking good. We're good at this shit. Yeah? We invented this shit and we're fucking dominating this shit. We'll be back to blow your minds again on Tuesday. See you then.

Yeah, exactly. Or bore you about sort of school pickup. But either way, we'll be back. Either way, they'll be edited. So it sounds fine. Yeah.