Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S11 EP25: Amol Rajan

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant journalist, writer and broadcaster - Amol Rajan. Formerly the media editor of BBC News, he has been a presenter on the Today programme on BBC Radio 4 since 2021 and University Challenge on BBC Two since 2023. You can listen to Amol's podcast 'Radical' wherever you get your podcasts. Parenting Hell is a Spotify Podcast, available everywhere every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Whitickham. Welcome to Parent in Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern-day parenting, each week you'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping.

Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice, and of course, tales of parenting wo. Because let's be honest, There are plenty of times where none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Willow. Can you say Rob Beckett? Radzak.

And can you say Josh Whittakerum? Josh Sickenham. There we go, Rob. County Wicklow. What? She was called Willow. No. I don't know why I said that. I just felt Irish. You're not wrong. She's from Cork. Is that in County Wicklow?

What county is Cork in? I don't know. Look, I was going to say that or kill Kenny, but for some reason I said County Wicklow. Cork is not in a county. It is a county itself. Oh, I see. I see what's going on. He's in the province of Munster. Willow will be two at the end of October and now shouts Rob Beckett any time I turn on an episode. My partner introduced me to the podcast when I was pregnant. Since then, we never miss an episode. It's like having friends chatting in the background while we navigate the shit show that is two under two.

Keep up the great albeit somewhat chaotic work from Rebecca, Darren Willow and, oh no. What? F-I-A-D-H. F-I-A-D-H. I'll say I'll know because it makes me look bad, not because... Go on, get it to pronounce it on the internet. Fia. Pia.

That's nice. Right, here we go. Customer service, job revenge. You like this. Hall of Rock, Josh and Michael. Please keep me anonymous. I still love the fact I did this, but I can see how it'll be wrong. My first job was in a shop where you write what you want.

on a bit of paper with a pencil, hand it to the worker, and then wait at the collection point while someone gets the item for you out of the back. Argos. I said, you know, why can't you just say, oh, God. One time this man came to me at the counter and said, smile, love, you should appreciate the fact you have a job. There are many people who would love one.

Oh, my God. Anyway, I was pissed off, and I was actually the person who would go and get his item, so I went out of the back to get it. What can you do that? Before we do it, let's guess. What would you do in an August situation, Rob? Here you are. What would you do without reading the email?

What's your way of revenge that? I've read what item it is. Okay, he ordered a small furniture item. What would you do that? Do you know what I would do? I'd break it out the back and go and just give it to him. Broken. Yeah.

Now, there we go. There was no one around. So I quickly opened a box and took the screws out. Oh, this is genius. Folded it up and gave it to him with a gigantic smile on my face. I didn't see him again. but I know he would have been fuming to discover there were no spruce. Good work, anonymous.

Brilliant. Brilliant work. There you go. Can we have another revenge one? You can't have, no, we're out of job revenge. We've got crap advent calendars. We've got some nightmare names. Let's do crap ad bank calendars. Flying solo as a child.

Got a few of these coming. Let's do crap outbent comments. Out of your debt in a new job story. Oh, yeah. That sounds fun. Yeah. Hello, you sexy, humble legends. Please keep me anonymous.

You need to do more email. else. They're great. Listener from the start, zero children. Thank you for making me cry well after on multiple occasions on my commute. When I turned 21, I started my job in a mortuary. Oh, no. Where post-mortems take place. Yeah, yeah.

Now, when a forensic criminal post-mortem case came in, it was a huge team in the examination room, police, crime scene officers, lead investigators, mortuary technicians, and the forensic pathologists themselves. My main big job as a morpillar. mortuary technician in these cases was to drum roll, saw open the skull for the brain to be removed. Oh,

fuck off, fuck off, fuck off. Now, the problem was, at this stage, the saw was so noisy that everyone would stop talking and have no other option to stand in silence 21 this guy is you would still move in sandwiches from the safe way he shot to the fucking garage at this

point. It was so down. I was standing to 121. Every, oh sorry, ever to stand in silence and watch every move as you try to nonchantly remove the top of the skull. As a new technician, this was a very much... Sorry, is it a sort or is it an electric sort?

Like, is it... I don't know. Maybe it's an electric saw, but I think you've still got to be very delicate with it because they need to see if there's any damage and stuff. They've got to get it a clean... Why is the 21-year-old being given that job? Well, it says, as a new technician, this was very much a high-pressure performance

and one that took months to get overdue in front of an audience, especially because you had to be extra... slow as not to damage the brain, and therefore potentially important evidence for a criminal trial, I was very much out of my debt. I don't think the new one should have been doing it, basically, but I think they were the only one there and the city you've got to do that. Keep up the good work. There's other people there. Oh my God. Faithful listener. I wouldn't want to work in a mortuary. Also, some people listen to this when they're at work. Someone's probably listening to this cutting an head off in a mortuary. Exactly. I would think, I'm going to say it, if you work in a

mortuary, yeah. there must be part of you. Not every time, but there must be some people that work in mortaries that have an unhealthy view of death. Amal Rajan. Are we all recorded? Yeah, welcome.

Josh, do you do the intro? Did you ask me to do the intro? Yeah, why don't you do the intro? Go on. Sure, I'll do the intro. Are we recording or what? Yeah. Who are you shouting at, by the way,

are we recording or not? Is that your team? Yeah, I've got a massive, a huge teammate. You're like Tim Davy. Yeah, the Director General himself is on the other side of the class, just making sure I don't say anything. Tim, good to see. Tim, you're happy if I get going, Brittany, here we go.

Hello, and welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh Whitakum and Rob Beckett talk about the madness and the tribulations of modern parenting and do so with a little comic twist. On the show this week, the best-looking Indian in British broadcasting, a man who has got wit, wisdom and warmth, extraordinary verve. he is the presenter of university challenge and also, as you can tell from the fact,

he's talking very fast, having not been to bed, the presenter of Radio 4's Today program. He's no Rick Astley, but would you please welcome, Amol Roger! Yes. Oh wow.

That is really good to have it. We should think about doing some intro as well. Why do you learn to speak like that? Where's the training to be a proper presenter? You're the person who speaks properly. I've studied this very closely. You speak so fluently and cogently. And when you talk, it's like the world stops and it's like it's Rob's turn now.

Wow. It's like no one else can get a word in more like. Yeah. I don't know what cogently means, but if I'm pumping it out, who cares if I know what it will. It means racist, Rob. Oh, God. You've got four kids. As far as I'm aware.

Oh, there we go. H's. They are, oh, they're glorious. They're nine six, four and two. Glorious. Don't use words to buffer you remembering their age. you like Boris Johnson there. Great question. Great question. Great question.

They've two of them have got the same birthday, two years apart. So the six-year-old and the four-year-old had a birthday. They're both born on the same day, but two years apart in September, to which all of my mates go, ooh, boxing day shag. Oh, yeah, that is. That's a tough shag boxing day shag, in it, after the cold meat of mash and bubble and squeak. That's a heavy shag, that is. I said, hello, that is what I'd say about it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say, I don't know. this is a fact, but I'm going to pump it out as a fact that I don't think I've ever had sex

on Boxing Day. No. Really? Not with someone. So basically, I've got a six-year-old, four-year-old and a two-year-old who are girls. There's a sort of run of birthdays all together. So that's why I took a little while to remember. Because until a couple of weeks ago, they were five, three-in-one.

But it did involve the six-year-old and the four-year-old having a joint birthday party. So that's exactly the same day. That's horrible for them, isn't it? It's horrible. Well, how do you think I should play it? I don't know. Because how old are your, how old is the oldest child? between Josh and Robin.

Nine, nearly turning 10 in December. Because I've got a nine-year-old boy as well. We're March shaggers, actually. Mid-March shaggers? Yeah, daffodil with an early... The moment he sees a lamb. Yeah, exactly.

When the hot cross buns are on the shelf, I'm buying them and a pack of jonies. Well, you're not one, not one, yeah. It's not affordable. Sorry, I'm up. Hang on, how have you were telling you shag in March? Because they've got December birthdays. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Complaint from the neighbours' council have been round. You just look at the date of their letters. Noise complaint. Sorry, I've had nine hours sleep. I might be unbearable. Talk to you about your kids. So where are you, by the way? Are you both in hotel rooms?

I'm in my house. I'm in Canterbury in a hotel room. Oh my God, are you touring? Yeah. It must be awful being a comedian. You spend your entire life touring. You have to get up at 6am and talk to Jacob Rees-Mogg. I'd absolutely take my job.

That would be a good day. I'd get up at about 3 o'clock in the morning. I was going to say my wonderful thing about my children. is that basically these two girls who right now are like kind of twins, they're kind of this wonderful pair. The older ones called Jamaica. Six and four. But I think as they get older, it goes from being a nice thing.

Oh, we've got the same birthday. It's all very funny. Let's have a joint thing. To actually being absolute hell, how dare you steal my birthday? I want my party with my friends. And if I'm a 16-year-old, I'm not into your boring crap when you're 14. Or if I'm 14, you're into boys and all terrible stuff. When you're 18, you've got your big 18th birthday.

I don't want your 16th birthday upstaging. this is the big one for me. Do you know what I mean? Oh, my days. I hadn't thought about that one specifically. That's going to be a night. If you want future worry, come and speak to Josh Whitaker. He's the master of it.

You could project anxiety into the future. Yeah. Like the bat signal. So they're going to have to consciously uncouple like Gwyneth and Chris Martin or whatever. Your daughters are two years, Rob, and they're very close. Yeah, but the birthdays are week apart. Right. So I think it's more not the closeness of them as a friend.

I think you're more worried about the actual birthday. I'm more worried about the actual birthday. It's like who's going to move as well. Like it's a bit like, oh God, there's someone at my door. Get it, get it, get it, get it. Who is it? Get him to come on the podcast and introduce himself. It's 100% the housekeeping that haven't been told that he's got a late checkout.

That's my guess. Rob, can I talk to you about your book, a class apart? Yeah. Were you basically saying that because I looked at her, I haven't read it. You chat GPTed it, didn't you? No, I did chat GPP, but I looked it up because I heard you talk about it with Rick Astley. I made a load of documentaries about social mobility and a big passion of mind obsession.

Were you basically saying in that that comedy is full of raw people? When I first started, it was, and still is to a point because it's quite dominated by the middle classes and people that have a safety net so you can go to the fringe. I think it's much worse now as well than... Yes, since COVID and Costa living.

Because I lived when I started, I was working for like 15 grand a year and able to live in London and that's how I was a comedian but you couldn't do that now do you know what I mean? You couldn't like there's lots of comedians who have got support

because that's the easiest way of doing it when you start out if you can do it which obviously we couldn't. But on the flip side the benefit to that was there was no expectation on me and pressure from family or parents to do anything whereas those people that had gone to private schools and Oxen, Cambridge, were crippled by expectation, which then made it harder. I was saying this to someone the other day, that I think there's an interesting thing that

if you look at everyone from our generation, Rob, who you'd go, oh, they're the ones that have made it the most, if you want to say that. None of them are people who've come from wealth, because I think it, I just think it gives you a massive extra drive. So if you look at Rob, Ramesh, me, Acaster, Pascoe, Catherine Ryan, John, do you know what I mean there's very few that have come from a wealthy background because I think you're like this is my fucking chance you've got to be hungry for it yeah yeah yeah yeah the other thing with social mobility it's a lot easier in comedy and entertainment and sport because if you're

funny they laugh it's obvious there's no you know if you score a goal in football you know there's obvious markers that you'll be successful but if you're trying to be socially mobile in like law being a lawyer me having a cockney cheeky chappy accent is quite endearing and fills a hole that's not there in entertainment and comedy. But if you're at a high level law firm, you will have to readjust and change the way you speak and act because it brings no charm. It just brings suspicion. It's dependent on industry, it's beneficial or not. It's also about who you know. And I guess in a weird to the way, being a comedian is a sort of solitary enterprise, isn't it? You're kind of out there touring. And if you're on stage and you're really funny,

people will laugh. Whereas if you want to break into a law firm or finance or consulting, it really, really helps if you know someone. And also, you need to know how they behave, how they operate, what their manners are, where they go on holiday, you know, how to spell Valdezere, which is not how I thought it was spelled to those back 21 years old. No, but I'd rather fucking die than go on a

different holiday to make friends of people for an industry. I'd fucking rather die. Maybe being a stand-up is different to sort of getting gigs on shows. Like, you know, if you do the last leg or you do eight out of ten cats, maybe you do need to know people to some extent. But I love the idea. No, hey, aye, aye, aye, aye.

I haven't got that because of that. Oh, come on the idea there's a meritocracy about comedy because acting is the opposite of what you guys has just said. That was really interesting. That list you reeled off of people who've made it. Acting, the people at the top have all come from a very posh backgrounds. That's because in acting, it's not tangible, is it? It's no one finishes a bit of acting go.

That definitely was great acting. There's edit in, there's reshoots, there's chats, there's this, there's that. Where in comedy, you all can't stage. I have a laugh or they don't and you can't re-edit the outcome. Yeah. In live entertainment. Sorry, can I just ask a quick question? In the 20 seconds when I went to the door, what the fuck happened?

He was deflecting to his own family because he's one of fucking journalists. He's trying to lose the roomer trying to rizz me up talking about my book. He didn't mention it was a Times bestseller, but it was. It's only Times by the Seller. That's so interesting. You know, I forgot somehow to say, and you didn't do it yourself, so I'll do it. When I was introducing myself, I should have said host of the most exciting podcast outside of parenting hell in Britain, which is radical. I didn't do that plug at all because I was trying to be successful.

No, cool. I'll be honest with you, mate. You've not even mentioned the age of your full fucking kid yet, so let's start the basics. Yes, I have. You're bringing out the actual journalist to me, because this is not true. I said two.

I said she was two. She's two. She's got six-year-old, four-year-old and two-year-old. What was the other one? And a boy who's nine. You know, I've got four children, nine, six, four and two. And the vibe is very much, he's the only boy, he's the eldest. He's got the big age gap.

So he's like Winston, the boy, and then a big gap, and then three girls got a bunched together, which is full on. Did you always plan on having a big family? I liked the idea of it, but it proved somewhat difficult for the six years that me and my wife were going through IVF. Bloody hell, it's feast or famine in your house, isn't it? You're going to fat my hook off. I'll get social mobile.

Let's talk about boxing day bunkups. The IVF killer. There we go. So I like the idea of it, but I have this very profound sense. I don't know if you guys got the same thing. When it's been hard to make it happen, I do feel unbelievably lucky, and it is useful to remind

I know they're healthy, they're wonderful kids you've got to remind yourself of that when you're going through the absolute hell that is a weekend in a rainy park that you've been to 10,000 times and a child refuses to go into a gymnastics lesson and then the younger one shits herself in some fucking godforsaken hellhole part of a park

which is me yesterday anyway I'm sorry, how does four work in terms of a weekend are you dividing and conquering or are you kind of because your nine-year-old, you're two-year-old, you're six and your four, they all want different things. They all want different things. So I would say, especially if to the people

listen to your podcast who may be a found it because they're about to embark on parenthood, they've not had their first baby yet and they don't know what to expect. One of the things you have absolutely no idea about is how basically the point of being a parent is you can't do what you want to do anymore. My weekends, I don't get to do what I want to do at all.

From 2 o'clock on the Friday afternoon, when I go up and do the school run, which I love doing, it's really fun. And there's a lot of dads there, whatever. You're essentially a butler. You're essentially providing services for other people. And weekends... You must be knackard as well. Be your knackard. And by the way, on the knackard thing, it's not just tiredness.

It's sleep deprivation, which is a form of torture. And I've had that for basically nine years. And then the Today program comes in and makes it even worse. So basically, you're extremely sleep deprived. I hope we're selling it to future parents here. So talk to me about your sleep. Because I can't imagine how you even... you're getting up at 3 a.m. to work.

So I'll tell you completely honestly, we're talking in a morning after that I've presented the program this morning so I did the Today program this morning. What time's that on again? Rob, you don't listen to the Today program. I don't know what that is, but I know it's a big deal.

I don't want to be just listening to Tim, Tim, Tim, that's Tim David, the director of general. I'm just trying to, no, it's Rob, yeah, Rob. Yeah, Rob, yeah, for radio, too. You see, he doesn't listen to the Today program. How long is it? It's four hours as always. Four hours. I knew it was three hours.

It's three hours from six, I got to nine. You can't even bang on Jolipa, can you? You've got talk the whole time. At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear-off about transferring your business when the time comes.

Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian Onters. entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. So the nine-year-old doesn't really want to sleep before nine o'clock. And I like hanging out with him. So nine o'clock, I try and go to bed, try and empty the dishwasher because if you don't empty the dishwasher, then my amazing wife's got to do that. So basically, 10 o'clock can't really sleep. Oh, God. Messing about, digging about on the internet. It's 11 o'clock. It's 12 o'clock.

you're looking at what happened in the news you're reading terrible stuff about what's going on you're trying to squat up for the next day are you kind of saying to yourself well if I do this now then maybe I can get up a bit later or exactly exactly but then at some point you just think sod it and you just go into the office

and you do it as an all-nighter and then I'm afraid to you have a couple of codeine Jesus Christ because like if you're Scott Mills it's not as stressful as that is it it's like I might have to interview Kylie Minogue I love Scott but I think I'd be quite

stressed with that lifestyle yeah yeah yeah really happy At least you're going to be serious. I did the radio to breakfast lot when Zoe was off for a fair bit, and you basically wake up at half past five, you roll in, and then you say, here's Elton. And it's great. And it's really, really fun and easy.

This is like intense prep. And also the scrutiny. Yeah. If you say something that's ever so slightly out of, you know, everyone wants to have a go to the BBC and all of that. Why are you doing it to yourself? You've got got good kids to support. I often ask.

I often ask. No, but also you can make it, you know, it is an amazing, like, institution. I'm only joking. It's not my, I'm not the devil. And genuinely, it's like my, I'm not just saying this. I mean, I don't know it's going to sound cliched and trite, but what I do is so easy compared to the producers, right? I mean, you guys know, maybe it's different in comedy,

but the producers who work on the Today Program are the best of the best. And they, not only do they get paid a lot less than me, but they work three nights on and three nights off, and they are absolute legends. And when you get in, I should be really clear, when you get at four in the morning, every single interview you've got to do that morning, it's about 12 or 13, 801 morning,

you get a brief, right? So if you're doing, you know, whatever, Tommy Robinson, you get a big brief. And they've written that overnight. So there's an amazing team, which makes it so much easier. How much do you let your kids in on this? So you're nine-year-old. Are you talking to him about, I don't know, Gaza or the Tommy Robinson March

or all that kind of stuff? Or are you trying to insulate him? I keep my kids as far away from the news as possible. I hate the news on radio. Like, you know, when you're on, like, absolute radio or version or whatever, the news, it will say, like, Like, a man's been charged with rape, da-da-da, and it's like a 70, I go, what's rape? Hang on, why are we allowed to say that at 11 a.m during the week?

And the kids hear all these words, or someone's died, and this and that. So I think about kids listening every single. So I think for parents who've got the radio on in the morning, I'm always thinking, how are you putting this news about Gaza or Ukraine or Sudan or whatever it might be out in front of your kids? I kind of do find that a bit mad. But also, listening to commercial radio, is it an off-compet? Why do they need the news? They don't.

And it's the same every half hour. And it's the same every half an hour. And it's the same thing at 11.30 is at 10.30. And I'm like, I find that a bit weird. You've got whole stations that do news. I don't want news. I want the killers. And I want Tom Allen.

I love the man. I love the man. Do you think it's next strange? You should play The Killers at 9am on Radio 4. I'm going to. No, I try to keep my kids away from it. Do you? And do they ask, when they talk to you about your job, do they say, I mean, they're not going to, I suppose.

I guess, what did you talk about today? But, like, it must be kind of scary as well. But it's an interesting Devon connection here, right, Josh? Because my wife, who's very English, is from Devon. She's from just outside Exeter. Oh, yeah. And we've got this big thing. So my kids have got brown skin, slightly lighter than me, kind of coffee-coloured skin,

but they look, yeah, Asian. And we've got this thing that she, they're having a very, very, very different childhood to her. Because she grew up in Devon. And they're actually having a very different childhood to me, because I grew up in South London, immigrant, family, not a huge amount of money. And I now live in North London. I work for the BBC and all of that sort of thing. And there's this weird sort of thing that both of us, me and my wife, both almost sort of don't recognise the childhood that our children are having. That sounds a bit weird.

I don't mean this is. No, no, that's interesting. Yeah, I'm not sort of complaining. Obviously, I'm very fortunate. But it's quite a weird thing when you, just little things that maybe you took for granted growing up in Devon, do your kids don't access so much. And you're a bit like, maybe I did want them to access that. Are you worried about them? I suppose the word spoiled is wrong but like are you worried about oh of course of course i know exactly what you're saying i presume you guys have the same thing if your kids are growing up with more money than you have yeah or you had when you were kid yourself it's a constant thing to ask yourself like are they being spoiled and i've been completely honest i hate spoiled kids yeah and it's a real problem

when i was growing up i used to think posh people had a pretty a less positive attitude towards some posh people but then you get old and you realize posh people are complicated just because someone went to a private school doesn't mean they chose to and as you were saying in your chat with Rick Astley you shouldn't necessarily judge people because of their sort of accent that sort of thing but young spoiled children

I can't bear it absolutely can't bear it and my children when they ask for like fizzy water and I'm like I didn't know what fizzy water was until I was about 25 years old but when I think that you know the holidays that we go on we go to France and there's somewhere where you know we're staying in a place that's got a swimming pool I don't think I'd been to France until I was 18

and I do constantly worry while you want to provide the best possible life for your kids it's the most natural thing in the world, you sort of want them to know what it's like to not be able to have certain things and that's quite a difficult thing to manage, I think, as a parent. Everything is balanced the other way. There's always what may be seen as a benefit

in one regard might not be in another regard and also your kids, you know, they're growing up in London with all this going on and, you know, for your wife, who's white grown up in excess, now she's confronted with a load of problems that she would have been maybe oblivious about because she wasn't Asian

or have children that are Asian and bringing them up, it's sort of, there's all different challenges that present themselves. The single biggest thing that I've learned in the years I've spent looking at and reading into writing about reporting on social mobility and I set up a charity that was obsessed with this subject is the advantage that London gives you. And, you know, being in and around London is just a massive, massive, massive leg up. It's a single biggest thing about social mobility. And if you grow up in London, you have advantages that growing up in Devon, even if you went to a nice school, even if you grew up somewhere that was leafy and rural, you don't have

those advantages if you grew up a long way from London. Because I'd stay at my mum and dads when I was doing gigs for no money. And I could get in and out of London and have dinner where did you grow up? Do you know, Mottenham? South East London. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I grew up in Mottenham. So they lived in Mottenham, which was like Zone 3 or 4 of London, so I could get like a week travel card. And then I'd just boot around London doing gigs and then just come back and stop my mum and dads. And if I lived in the middle of, you know, like Kettering or something like there, I wouldn't be able to get anywhere. I wouldn't have been able to fool the train.

You know what I mean? Poor old Acaster. Poor old A pastor. He managed it. He got that. Is A. Kester from? Keteran. So with your kids, four kids,

talk to me through the weekend. It's 2 o'clock on Friday. So 2 o'clock, you go up the hit all, you do the school run, and you're straight into the Friday. So basically, a huge track. Did it kick out on 2? No, no, no.

But I mean, by 2 o'clock, you can't be doing anything after 2. I sort of start the, get kicked out, quarter past 3. But 2.30, I go and go, but get them basically. And you basically then are into a straight up three or four hours of it's dinner time, feeding them, then it's bath time, then it's bedtime.

You basically huge amounts of your life just disappear in this vortex called every evening of your life. And at 9 o'clock, you might watch something on Netflix, you might chat to your wife about five minutes, but basically you need to go to bed because the baby's going to be up. And that is the thing about four is there's no respite. Yeah. So how does bedtime work? Because all of them need to be put to bed separately.

So the two-year-old is usually, by the way, it takes the first two years before your child sleeps in my experience. I don't know if you found the same thing, but the first two years are a total nightmare. And then you get regressions along the way as their brain develops and they have nightmares and then they're in an out-your-bed at age six-seven. And then they start to wet themselves and all that sort of nonsense. And so the two-year-old basically will sleep and now the four-year-old and the six-year-old share a bunk bed, which means they can talk to each other. Oh, that's good. Oh, again, things that you don't know about parenthood until you've done it, is... Children cancel each other out.

So there's this really weird thing that, like, one five-year-old is a lot of work, but two-five-year-olds is kind of no work because they can talk to each other. Often you'll get people who go, oh, thank you for having us around with our kids. And you're like, it's easier. Totally. When you're here with your kids, life is easier because your kids are entertaining my kids. Exactly. That's why you do play dates.

So basically, they all go to bed. The nine-year-old is pretty cool, wants to stay up and talk or mess about, whatever. But then from Saturday morning, my thing is, on a Saturday morning, You've got to get out. Because if you don't get out, you are into just this endless doom loop of breakfast, load the dishwasher, empty the dishwasher, and then it's time for lunch. The dishwasher is huge for you, isn't it? Because you've got four kids.

I apologize to the dishwasher the other day when I stopped it early. I was like, my dishwasher literally ought to have a name. It says hot point on it. And I have a deeper and more intense relationship with that. A bloody machine than I do most of my fellow human being. How many rounds are you doing a day? Standardly eight or ten. Can I suggest, I don't know if you've got a space for it, but can I suggest a second dishwasher and lose a cupboard?

Haven't got space, mate. What you reckon two at the same time? Because what you can do is when one's on, you can load the other, and you've got a bit of freedom and the kitchen's clean on the side. Do you what I mean? That's a really interesting suggestion, which I'll put to my wife. Do you know what I found out the other day, which is a big issue, that I've been trying to overstack the dishwasher. I've been sort of, you want it to be efficient, right? You want to do one load and do it all.

It's a false economy. It's a false economy, because then you take it all out and you've got to wash it all again. Yeah, my mother. in-law, I think she's brilliant at stacking the dishwasher because she can get more in. That's not what it's about. No, you want the dishwasher to be about 80% full, I would suggest. Have you ever put it on eco-friendly mode? Ours has got eco-friendly mode, which means it does it all, and then it air dries and it takes

four and a half hours. I haven't got four and a half hours. I haven't ever, and it locks it. If you do that by accident, your day is over. Why is it eco-friendly if it takes longer? It basically washes it all, and then it just drip dries. it's like not having aircon I suppose

and what's your impartial view on that yeah it's got a lower carbon footprint yeah the footprint on my hot point is absolutely tiny so basically on a Saturday afternoon you've got to get out in the morning got to do some sort of activity

which is what activities are you looking at anything so soft play in the park anything and the problem is what do you do when it's raining again you don't think about this before you become a parent

but rain is terrible because when it's rain you've got to be indoors and if you don't want to be in your house you basically have to arrange to go to someone else's house with four kids as well i don't know how many invites you're getting i know and now you're those people are just like oh my god who wants them to come around with their four kids and they're all IVF or were you first and then it come through it how did it work i've always had the thing that i wanted to tell them first oh right so what i was said because they don't know and i'm always conscious they might hear this i'll put it this way one of them is

IVF and the others were natural. Ask goodbye to put it. And for anyone who is listening to this podcast, partly because they want to have inspiration to become a parent, let me just say, if you're going through IVF, it is absolute hell. Much worse, obviously, for women than men. And I'm so sorry

and, you know, I hope you get there in the end. Because it is, it's an amazing thing. We all have kids much, much later these days. Did you consider stopping at any point? Because you said seven years, didn't you? Yeah, no, six years interrupted by the birth of one of them. We did, yeah, totally. I realize even as I say this, it is the most annoying thing in the world to hear if you're going through IVF.

But it's true to say that we then just got lucky. Yeah. The thing about having a baby and conceiving is you just need to get lucky. And a huge, huge thing is because we're all having kids so much later, there are a lot of people, a lot of women who, for absolutely understandable reasons, think about their careers and prioritise that. And they get to their late 30s, for instance, and they're thinking IVF's an option. and then they look into it and they realize you can only do three rounds

on the NHS and after that it costs a huge amount of money and it's not guaranteed to work and it's a lot of heartache and God, I just say my heart goes out to those people because it's a horrible thing

and you would go through it and go through all the pain if you knew that there was going to be a baby at the end Yeah, it's not guaranteed but you're in the tunnel and you don't know this light at the end of it

and that's a horrible thing it's a horrible thing How old was you when you had your first one? 32. 32, oh okay How old were you guys? I was 29. I was 34.

Which is 10 years late for where I'm from. I'm going to do say one journalistic thing here. This is, I think, such an interesting phenomenon. In 1981, which is when Charles and Diana got married, the average British woman got married at 23 and had kids quite soon after that and the average man at 25. Fast forward 30 years

and the average British woman is getting married at 30 and the average British man is getting married at 32. In other words, in a space of a single generation, because we're all basically skin and can't afford houses, we've delayed childhood and marriage by seven years, which is a massive So is that why it is? I think it's two things. I think it's partly because it's an economic thing, which is that we can't afford houses

so you need two mortgages to get on the housing ladder. Yeah, people are skinned. And I think it's also slightly a kind of cultural thing, which is a kind of feeling that you should be freer for longer. And a lot of people think with their 20s is this decade of experimentation. They want to experiment with their careers or their living arrangements or their partners. and they settle down later on. And in a way, that's an amazing thing

because you get to have your 20s and, you know. Uni as well, I think no one really went to university, especially in the sort of more working classes. But when I went 20 or years ago, there was so many more grants to go and stuff like that. You know, more people went in that generation, I think. Do you what I mean? Was it worth going to uni in your case?

For me, not academically no, but social mobility-wise, yes, because I found out there was a different world and a different way of doing things through meeting other people. and not staying in my tiny sort of microcosm of area and family and friends. It was 100% worth it for me in terms of who I developed to be because I needed to leave home. I needed to go and I grew up in Devon. I went to Manchester and it was just a brilliant three years

where I kind of found out who I was. But I did that. It was like what you'd call a shot to nothing in Snooker, isn't it, in those days? I was like, what was it, four grand a year or whatever? it was. I think I left uni, I think 11 grand debt for the whole three years. Yeah, I lived on whatever. My rent in my final year was 32 quid a week. Oh my gosh. We had a box room in our flat. It was 200 quid a week for four people. And then we were like, we just negotiated. So everyone else paid 56. And I paid 32 quid just go in the tiny room. And I was like, this is fucking

brilliant. It's like a zero-sum game, isn't it? It's like, why not? In those days, It was like, this is a great thing to do for three years while you work out. I was totally rudderless and didn't know what to do with my life. At the time, you didn't have to pay your loan back if you didn't earn over 15 grand a year. I'd never thought I'd be paying it back. Well, no, I thought I would be, but I'd only be telling the government I was earning 15 grand. That was my friend. That debt you had, Rob, did you say it was at 11 grand?

That'd be nine, actually, but then it was 11 by the time the interest went on, like, immediately, and then it grew. That's quite a lot. I mean, that's quite a lot. But I never thought I'd pay it back. Yeah, you don't. 18. I didn't know what no one else had been to union. My family didn't know what I'll sign in. Someone who said sign that and you get a loan, you don't have to pay back. I thought, well, I'll never earn that much whatever it was to pay it back. And then you got grants as well.

So you've got three grand a year grants and the three grand loan. My fees were paid as well, I think. I can't remember. Something like that. So I think it was nine, basically nine grand for it all. But then the interest started building up after that. And I paid it off with comedy money. A lot of young people are just thinking it's not worth it. You have to come out with 50 grand in debt, you know, which is going to be around your net for a long time. And actually, to be honest, I mean, not to bring it down, but I feel so sad, not only for that generation that were affected by COVID, the people that went to uni, even their three

years were, you know, lived on Zoom, they didn't get to meet anyone. The people at school, you know, it's stored up so many problems. But also, just generally, for young people these days, I feel like there, a lot of people just feeling very down about their prospects. And, you know, so what do you go and study? Most stuff, it's being threatened with, oh, I, I'll do that. Even like becoming a solicitor or loyal, which be one of the most respected things you could become, people would be like, well, that would point is because you could just ask chat, GBT, what I should put in a legal letter to reply to this. So can I tell you something, hand on heart, two weeks ago, I was sat in this very seat.

I'm doing this from a podcast studio in the BBC. Yes, talk to us about radical. So the idea behind radical was, for the reasons you guys say, we are living through this absolutely terrifying era in human history. A lot of the stuff that we thought would never happen. It's happening. A lot of the old norms are dying. And there were these big things like AI, environmental change, which are kind of scared.

The idea of radicals say, what are these big trends changing the world and how do you understand them and try and get ahead of them? And two weeks ago sat in this very studio, I was talking to the boss of one of the AI giants, company called Anthropic. And this guy is my age, he's 42. He's a multi, multi, multi, multi, billionaire. What's it called? Dario Amaday, two episodes ago we did it. And it was like literally getting a bucket of cold water poured over my head. And he's got no need or incentive to talk this stuff up first and say.

Secondly, he has been proven absolutely. be correct in his analysis of how quickly AI was going to develop. And he said, and it's shocking. But he said, basically, within three to five years, half of entry level white collar jobs in things like finance, in things like consulting, in things like law, they're going to be wiped out. And then I went away and looked at, I was like, guys, can this really be true? And he said that's a worst case scenario. He also said there's going to be lots of good things from AI, but he said there's a worst case scenario. And it's already happening. There are company, massive companies that are employing the future Josh Whitakums and the future Rob Beckett's, people that came from, you know,

humble or ordinary circumstances, got themselves into university and all they wanted was a decent first job. These jobs are disappearing. I worry about the prospects for young people. I really feel like we're kind of, we're not giving them a reason to be optimistic quite often. And, you know, the cultural script they're getting is one saying that things are pretty kind of grim. And the truth is, with AI, for a lot of them, it will be quite grim. And this is the kind of stuff for the today program, yeah? I'm reading a book on AI called The coming wave. Have you read this? Don't start him off on AI again. I'm old. He lends it.

I'm sorry. I interviewed him about it. Yeah. It's fascinating. I think it's fascinating. But AI's got a lot of good things about it. Are you then saying to your kids, you need to do this, you need to do that? The world's going to be completely different for them. Yeah. They've just got to use it a lot. I don't know if you guys, your nine-year-olds have got smartphones yet, but I'm basically trying to keep my kids away from smartphones and all of that palava. But I do occasionally let them Google stuff or put it into like chat GPT. and it's so weird for them, isn't it?

Because it's just normal. I don't have you got a home speaker. So I find the fizzy water thing really weird. When my kids go, I want that with fizzy water. I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? But now they go, and other home speaker systems are available. But they go, okay, Google, and then they ask for something, and they get an answer. Yeah.

And I think that is so weird. And I'm like... But is that not when our parents were going, they're just playing Super Mario Bros or something? I was playing Super Mario Bros. I was playing Mario Cup. But it's just a generational thing, right? Yeah. Technology has to improve.

Technology is always advancing. We're relics. Nans must have been well scared of Excel. You want your kids to have that lovely childhood that you had in Mottingham or in Devon on Dartmoor, rolling across the fields, looking at the sheet, picking the Black Breeze, watching the season's turn. Yeah, but I didn't have that childhood. I just watched television and play computer games.

And it's worked out. Do your kids have access to games consoles? Yes, they do, but they're not. with that obsessed of it. They occasionally play a bit Mario Carp. They play Roblox a lot on their iPads, which I don't really like, but they love it. And a bit of Minecraft is what they play. So the

Roblox universe, is that something I should be keeping my kids away from? Well, so basically, Minecraft's like a game that you buy and you can play around with and build your little houses, but what Roblox is, it's almost like a user-generated worlds. So you have your little Roblox person, but you can search stuff like,

say you like Fairgrounds, you can search Fairground and user 4469 Fairground, you can go into some random person around the world's built a world. So because it's so open and so much opportunity to create your own worlds, Roblox itself struggles to keep everything safe because it's all user generated. It's not them creating a computer game like Mario Kart. So you have to be really on it with their terms and conditions and stuff like that. But ultimately, I think Roblox want you to be on all of it and more of it because then they can earn more money from selling Robux and advertising.

So you've got to be one step ahead of the safety protocols because in an ideal world, Roblox wants everything open to everyone. But obviously, if you're in children, you want them in a safe part of it. So you have to just keep making sure that they can't direct message people or there's different ratings of world. Because they can do ones like a ghost train.

But if you're 18 plus, the ghost train can be horrendously awful to be on. But if you've got the four-year-old to six-old one, it's not as bad. But even then, there's, you know, gradings. But because it's user-generated, it's hard to know what they're exactly on every second. But the single biggest thing is to keep them for as long as possible away from the open Internet, isn't it? That's a thing. What you don't want is your kids to be able to go on to Google, let alone social media.

I mean, that's... YouTube. We keep them off huge... I hate... What I think is the scariest is the algorithm is terrible. Yeah, YouTube Kids has been the most problematic. Why is YouTube kids so bad? My problem with YouTube kids, which was slightly different, which was...

was it wasn't that they ended up on bad stuff. It was that the way, the fact it just kept going on to the next video and onto the next video and onto the next video. And it takes you away from the original search. Exactly. It seemed to really affect my daughter and make her kind of edgy and angsty and not so much the content as the way the method it was just onto the next, onto the next, onto the next, as opposed to just maybe it was all in my head, but that's what I found was really difficult

for her to deal with. Yeah, basically, it was constantly, it never ended. And also, it would be like funny video. But then if my daughter liked or watched one that was a bit like, oh, my God, fake death prank, but it was a girl going, hey, welcome to my channel, I'm see Andrew. And then she was like laying on the floor, like, and it was sort of funny because it was so like caricaturey. But then if she liked that one, it found it quite funny, then it would take you to another one that may be a little bit more grown up in tone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But she might be watching it through like, oh, my God, you know, when you're scared of something or you watch it because it's sort of addictive, isn't it like that? So kids want that thing that is just a little bit kind of naughty for them to get to because the slightly older kid, it's for the slightly older kids. So an eight-year-old wants, what, a 10-year-old's allowed to watch. A 10-year-old wants, what, a 12-year-olds. And all of this stuff is worth saying, this stuff, I mean, we're not that ancient, but this stuff is new, right? You know, when we were growing up watching cartoons, I love cartoons, I love computer games,

I watch a huge amount of screens. I'm not going to pretend I was there, like, immersed in Shakespeare. I was watching a lot of screens. But the stuff that you get now is literally designed on Netflix, on Prime, on Disney, it's prime to, like, hook kids in, and it's grabby with its colors, and it's very addictive. And they, like, literally tweak the plots. So you have to keep watching and keep watching and keep watching. And let's be honest, one of the things about screens is, when you're a parent, you're exhausted, you know, you want to be able to look at your screen. You want to be

able to, like, make a meal. I want to look at my algorithm. Actually. And you'll be, don't pretend you're not watching Unicorn Academy on a Friday night, right? And to be honest, the screens, letting your kids watch the screen is a way of giving you a bit of respite. And you know what? That's reasonable. It's fair enough, you know. As someone who's kind of, you know, you're observing where the world's going, where do you think the mobile phone thing with kids will play out in the next five to ten years? Do you think there will be government intervention?

Do you think there will be rules or do you think it won't happen like that? So there's this big new law in Australia where social media. rather the smartphone to be banned for kids of a certain age. And I do think that basically we had Nick Clegg who used to work at Facebook or Metas. It's now called sat in the studio a few weeks ago. And he was saying that even he is sort of looking at that closely because even he thinks there is a case for kids under the age of 14 not really being allowed to have smartphones. And you know what?

I know it's going to make you sound sort of name dropping, but I say anyway, I interviewed on the Today program, Eric Schmidt, former boss of Google. And he said something which was so nuts about kids. He said, in a few years' time, we will ask ourselves how on earth we ran the biggest experiment in human history on all the world's kids. And what you talk about is the fact that we've given these devices to all these kids, which is nuts. If you think about it in 1950s or 60s, or even when we were growing out in the 1990s, you came into school and you pulled out a television and put it on the table in front of you in class, and then you pulled out a speaker, and then you pulled out a camera, and then you pulled out some typewriter that allowed you to connect with every other person in the world. put that all on the table in front of you. And then the teacher was trying to teach you.

You'd be like, that's mad. And yet now we've got all of that in this tiny thing that fits into our pockets. And millions of children around the world are going to school with these things in their pockets. And I do think we'll look back on it and be a bit like, that was a bit wild. So do you think people will step in then in the UK? The striking thing is it's not happened yet. You know, so Keir Starmer thing on it is it's up to schools to do it. But I think what matters is what other parents do.

and there's obviously a stereotype about pushy middle class parents and certain schools will kind of campaign for it I think what really matters which you don't realize before we become a parent is that you need the solidarity of other parents it's a bit like with computer games again this is the sort of thing you never think about until you have kids yourself but like with screens or computer games what matters isn't just what your kid is doing what their mates are doing in a class but what their older siblings are doing

yeah you might have a seven year old that goes to school and the other seven year olds have certain rules but then one of the seven-year-olds has got an older brother who's nine, who's got Roblox. And suddenly, all the chat is about Roblox. So you just need the other parents to help you in enforcing your rules. Well, yeah, because my seven-year-old got Roblox the same time as my nine-year-old. But in an ideal world, the seven-year-old would have waited until she was nine. But there's no way she's going to see the nine-year-old and not say, I want a bit of that.

Well, I think there should be a law where it shouldn't be allowed a social media account and list TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram, until you're 16, and that'd be law. and you have to show your ID to sign up. It's a very simple thing that can be implemented. Obviously, you can cheat that with fake IDs that most people do with cigarettes, nightclubs and stuff like that. But at least it gives the parents a thing. It's against a lot.

It's illegal. And then you will create that solidarity through the majority. Not everyone's going to do it. And people will be loopholes, but just accept that. But then at least most people are going, no, wait to you 16, and then we do it. But haven't you guys heard, especially from some of you, because you guys got big following amongst people that are teenagers,

young people in their 20s? Have you heard a lot of people say, I wish I'd never been introduced to TikTok? I hear that all the time from young people saying, you know what? God, I wish I'd never even looked in it. It's just, it's swallowed my life or like I'm just spending time, doom scrolling. I think in a way, though, I think social media will naturally turn into content as opposed to members of public, publishing everything. I think the way we put Instagram stuff on, the next generation will find that embarrassing and cringe,

like Facebook and Friends of United. Why the hell are you putting photos of you and mum on the holiday on the internet? but what they'll have is an account that's got like their photo and then like one or two posts and they'll do a few stories but what it will be used is to watch their favorite content creators and it become TV and YouTube as opposed to because most people watch YouTube and don't post and I think TikTok, Snapchat and Instagram eventually from the next generation will be the more watching creators as opposed to publishing everything about themselves. I think you've just designed the future of the internet, Rob Beckett.

That's the much far-sighted analysis. I'm meant to be the one with a podcast about the global trend of taking the world called Radical. Get him on your podcast. You've just outlined the future of the web. Oh my God. That's what I think is going to happen anyway.

But you know, I'm going to wrong. If you were to give people three episodes of Radical to come in on, which are the three you're proudest of and the most interesting. Okay. And can you run for sort of the everyday guy? Because when you said, I don't have a name dropper year,

I didn't even know what name I was supposed to be picking up. Eric Schmidt or something Eric Schmidt he was a former boss of Google Everyday guy There's loads of everyday people So one I'd say is we did an episode with Billy Boyd No but for people like it's new to them This kind of because what you are doing

I know you're a very eloquent speaker And you're from like humble beginnings But you aren't operating at quite a high intellectual level of debate And insight into these complicated things So if there's an entry level gap for people to get in On top of your other two favourite ones That would be great

I'd say first up Billy Bragg Yes. So Billy Bragg, he came on this podcast. He's a man of the left in politics and he talked about how the old working class that he grew up with is no longer there because that whole solidarity is completely gone. But we also talked about the power of protest songs. And it was so inspirational. And he was really honest about it. So I said, do protest songs work? And I thought he was going to say, of course I do. That's what I spent 40 years doing. And he said, no, they don't work. So Billy Bragg was incredibly interesting and exciting. If you are worried about AI and a lot of people are worried about. AI and they're right to be, though it's also exciting, there is an episode with this guy called Dario, Mario, but we have a D, Daria Amadeh, which is really, really good. So Ash Sarkar is this really, really interesting person who's kind of thoughtful about the left of British politics, and she's like, you know, she's from Tottenham and she's very influential,

which works for Navarra Media, and she was great on all the stuff that's going on with Jeremy Corbyn and the Green Party. And then we got someone who is at the more intellectual end, for sure, as is Ash Sarkar, called Dr. James Orr, and he's basically the main intellectual influence on reform. And if you think that there's a serious chance, I don't know how you guys feel about this, but if you think there's a serious chance that reform and Nigel Farage could, in some distant future, run the country. And you want to understand their thinking, there's an episode with James Orr that you'd really enjoy.

So the thing about the intellectual level, Rob, I'd say, which is so interesting you say that. Yeah. The reason I do what I do is I want big ideas to be accessible to everyone, including the kid that I was when I grew up. And I really want to break the connection. It's not getting me in trouble. I want to break the connection with big ideas and a posh accent. Yeah.

And I really think that one of the great developments in our culture is that people, including people like you, if I may say, both of you, are able to show that you can have cultural capital and be someone with a voice, even if you didn't come from a wealthy background. And I think that's a good thing. Is this radical podcast your own thing or is it a BBC podcast? It's a BBC thing. It comes out of the Today program.

Don't let that put you off. It's a good thing. If you listen to the Day Program, you'd love it. I bet you would. Yeah, I know, but can I say with that accent thing? So I've seen you on social media. It was like, oh, I like this guy, like that. And I was like, oh, my God, that's the bloke on the news.

You present slightly differently because you have to be. But like with your accent, I think your accent, as your career's developed, you've become more South London than you have been previously. I don't know if that's a conscious thing when you are on the Today program because I noticed it was Lauren Leverne. When she went on to do Desert Island. and discs. She's not really from the North East anymore. But you're saying that I've become more South London. That's what I'm saying. So I think you've gone the other way. I think you

had to be when you first went on there and you've got more that way, which I think is really refreshing and it cuts through to me. Whereas when I listen to someone on the Today program with that voice, I go, that's not for me. And also I think most of the time, that's them doing their little performance for that show. I know you can't be, you have to be impartial, but it just sprinkles a slight bit of inauthentic. No, no, I don't have been impulsed by accents. So I'd just say, I did this two-part documentary called How to Crack the Class Ceiling, and a big part of it was about accent bias.

And accent bias, as your listeners will know, is a real thing in this country. And I'm afraid to say, there is a hierarchy of accents. And the ones that are at the bottom have been at the bottom for the last 50 years. And it's Wolverhampton in the black country. And then quite soon after that, it's scouse. And one of the big... I'm right inside. We all agree. I was hoping you said that.

One of the big things we try to do is try and get people who don't talk in received pronunciation to talk about intelligent things. I'm trying really hard. It's going to be harder now that we've had this conversation. I'm trying really hard to not have this kind of code switching kind of hyper awareness of access. Also, it's not like people do it consciously as well.

Do you know what I mean? It's just because you're in that building with those people can sometimes shift it. But I think what I was saying was it was meant to be a compliment. You are becoming more, I think. authentic in the way you are speaking, I find, as a viewer of yours. And I try really hard on university challenge where you often have to talk very fast, but really clearly enunciate.

Enunciations different from pronunciation, which is the accent. I try really hard to still be me. But I be completely honest with you, I feel paranoid and self-conscious about whether or not I accidentally and unconsciously seem to posh up in order to be understood. But everyone does that. I do that sometimes on certain shows. But do you have a triple sort of a triple threat of this where then you'll be a, because obviously your presenter's working class South Londoner and you have that accent,

but then you won't be Asian enough for Asian people because you're so South London. Do you get that as a... Everyone feels like you're letting them down. In the end, you've just got to be yourself. And, you know, when you get to my ripe old age, I know, I'm about. And the thing that's really wonderful, which young people who talk like you do coming from Mottingham or like you do coming from the part of Devon, you're from Josh, young people can often be very, very paranoid about it. When I did these documentaries, it's so funny,

I did this documentary called How to Break Into the Elite. I got so many emails, hundreds of emails from people pouring their heart out to me, okay, saying, you know, I was the chief constable of Somerset police, but I would have been a much higher rank if I didn't come from Birmingham. Because I'm paranoid about sounding like I come from Dudley because there's bad connotations from that. And I really felt after these documentaries that accent paranoia is a much bigger part of being British than accent pride. Just this week, I got an amazing email.

I won't say her name because I'm going to meet up with her and try and help her out. But I got this email from someone who said the basis, she had a very strong Scouse accent. She was very paranoid about it. She watched my documentary. And then she said she's going to not try and hide that Scouse accent. And she went for a big job in London. As happens, she's now doing really well.

I think a lot of people in this country are terrified about how they sound and try and posh up. And I think the three of us in an unspoken club and with a little bit of kind of mutual solidarity can try and break that connection. I just think we need to give people the confidence. Most people in Britain talk in regional industrial accents. And I just think we should hear more of those accents. And I should say, I think we're making progress on that. I think people should be positive about it. Oh, 100%.

Definitely better than it was. Last question. How do your kids talk? absolutely pucker London, North London. Not posh, not posh,

kind of classless, I'd say. Yeah. Classless. Yeah, they're talking a sort of, actually not classless, middle class,

middle class, North London, which is, I guess, what they are. Yeah. I feel like I've wondered about all, though I'm so delirious

in lack of, no, it's great, it's perfect. I've scared the crap out of you on AI. No, I'm already there. I'm already there.

I think it's either going to destroy us or save the world, and let's see what happens. You can cut this bit. I'm just going to say that you can cut this, if you like. I think you guys are absolute legends. Oh, thank you. And I know, I've followed your careers really closely

that you have both overcome significant hurdles to do what you do. And to be funny and to be appreciated for it and to still be yourselves is, I think, absolutely fucking amazing. So I hope you keep on doing it. Oh, thank you. It's been a joy. It's been a great.

We've got the final question as well if you've got time. I've got time. We've not really spoken about your wife enough, I don't think. So this is a chance for you to. to riz her up to the max. Basically, what is the one thing she does as a parent that you're in awe of and think you are amazing? And then what's the one thing she does as a parent

that frustrates you slightly? And if she was to listen, she'd go, yeah, he's got a point there. And you can answer in any order. On the first one, the whole childbirth thing, turning a little dot that's smaller than a pinhead into a person inside of you and then ejecting that person into the world means that every woman in the world

deserves more credit than every man that's ever lived. I think that's the first thing. Yeah, but try getting it up after your fourth pigs in blanket on Boxing Day. Do you know what I'm saying? Oh, dear. The one thing that she does that frustrates me. Oh, I know I just did a silly joke, but yeah, I totally, the childbirth thing is absolutely mental. Childbirth thing is absolutely nice.

But what's the second thing? What's the one thing that she does that was a source of frustration? Oh, my God, if I can't think of something, does that mean I'm implying that she's absolutely perfect? What would you get called on the internet? You'll be called something male, what's it called for a simp, a ham, basically of pussy. boy. Anyway, growing up in South London, that was a mark of respect. I would say that we're in a way that is genuinely, it's not me being diplomatic.

I'm completely honest. We're absolutely opposite characters, right? I'm from South London. She's from Devon. I'm, you know, whatever. I'm much, much more affectionate than her. And I think affection's a good thing. I feel sad for you.

He wants a little cuddle after the today. Someone give a molly cuddle. He's not. After the today program, I tell you, I always need a little cuddle. That is all I do. I think affection is a good thing where she's very, she's English. She's incredible, obviously. She's the most amazing person I'll live with me.

But she doesn't kiss you enough. Oh, is it about me rather than her with the kids? Oh, with the kids. Oh, right. I thought you were saying that you wanted more kisses. Well, that's also true. I do want more kisses. Listen, you know that Stone Roads' song?

I want to be adored. I mean, it's just totally true. I think it's that when you've got four kids of that age group, it is the time for that seems to shrink. Does it come back? Does it come back eventually? No, you're at the worst of it because you've got the two-year-old. I'd say like another 18 months or so when the youngest is four. You'll get a little kiss in 18 months.

If I'm lucky, I'll get a little smooch. When the youngest is four, I think it literally, that is a dramatic easing of parental stuff and they're getting to school. It's just, you know, you're nearly there. And holidays are easing. It is a easy. I need to have to take milk and napping. And then you'll have more time together because you do the school drop off and then you can be indoors together and then you can do other stuff. You've got a bit of time back to yourself, so you'll get there.

We're going to have a kiss. You can kiss each other. And a little cuddle. What time do you get home from the Today program? Well, it depends if I'm talking to you or not really. Usually my time she's going to work. So I get home at 9.30 and try and sleep, wake up and then do the school run. So there's no time for kissing at all.

It'll come, I'm on. Just yeah, boxing day. As soon as I'm done here, I'm going to go and listen to your AI guy, because I am fascinated. You get so hyper-focused on stuff. He's not stopped talking about AI. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. It was a joy.

I loved that. You guys are legends. Thank you so much. I feel honored to chat to you. It was an absolute joy. Good luck to podcast. Radical. You go back to bed.

And hopefully you get another series of the Today Show. Well, it's not a daily show. Oh, yeah. You won't be winching about when we invite you want to talk about your next tour. Or to talk about social ability or your next book. And then you go, hang on a second. There's three million people. Listen to you.

Many many people listen. Great, so have you on, Mr. Rodger. The influence is absolutely normal. I got invited on. I got invited on recently when Plymouth Argyal beat Liverpool. I know, I suppose you, mate. Do you not remember? Yeah, I know.

I know. It's just for the listeners. Right. See you soon, mate. Good luck with it. Amor Rajan. He came in. Oh, he came in all gone.

Oh, I loved it. Do you know what? I'm going to put that in my top five interviews that didn't go how I expected. That's what I was saying to him when I was saying like he's much more himself in recent years where I just thought

he was going to be like quite a straight news guy but yeah so did I he was down to fuck man yeah right what I loved as well he didn't mind a couple of the today show digs but he had to drop in three million I was like oh guys

come on guys I've been a serious guy here I like a laugh but I do like respect as well actually I've seen the ratings of the last leg don't fucking take the piss all right Josh I see you next time

See you say. Bye.