Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S12 EP22: Lauren Laverne

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) it's the brilliant presenter, author, DJ and singer - Lauren Laverne. Parenting Hell is available to watch on Spotify every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xxx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  (Copyright 2026) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ryan Gosling, in the first must-see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, only in Peters Friday. This episode is presented by Adobe Acrox. About Studio. Josh, as a new parent, you get loads of information just chucked at you. Oh, mate, it never ends, does it? And it's so difficult to know what's helpful, what's important, what I should be ignoring, what I should hold dear to my heart. It just goes on and on.

Well, imagine that's your job dealing with tons of data and information. No, no, no, no, no, thank you. I would be appalling of that. Well, luckily, Acrobat Studio exists. With PDF spaces, you can turn your docks into knowledge. It lets you bring all your project files into an AI powered workspace to get insights and ideas. So people can cut through the waffle, work smarter and save time and get on with the stuff they really want to do. But the big question is, will it tell me how to get my children to eat vegetables?

Do that with Acrobat. Learn more and try it out on adobe.com. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Oscar? Can you say... Can you say... can you say Josh? Can you say... We're the cutest Pixar kid ever. That's unbelievable. Oh, still going. There we go.

I think one of the cutest we've ever had. That was ridiculous. That was great, wasn't it? Emma Cox. Thank you for that. She's from Somerset. I've loved your podcast from the start. It keeps me feeling sane on those overwhelming parenting days.

This is my little boy, Oscar, who will be two on the 15th of February. I think he did a half decent job of your names, keeping being sexy and relatable, Emma in Somerset. Since the old cover shoot, that sexy thing's not a joke anymore. Too bloody right, mate. How are you, Josh? Body language is wild there. You're sort of protecting yourself. Your arm was locked over like that.

Yeah, I know. Go see how you were. Let's analyse this seat. I can't remember how it was like that. Yeah. That is you're clinging on. You've got a busy week, haven't you? We're doing this.

Not too busy, really. You're in London because you've got Last Leg tomorrow night. I'm going to watch Operation Mint's Meat tonight. Lovely. And then tomorrow I've got... Last leg? No, tomorrow. morning I've got dental hygienist.

Lovely. I need to go there. I just don't have enough time. I know. That's nice. Well, you know, it's busy down the vets. Come on. Oh, why not? So you've got a dentist hygienist tomorrow. Last leg. And then gigs? York.

Oh, you like York. Saturday. Saturday. But I'm going to Rotherham v. Plymouth on the way to York. Is Rotherham on the way to York? It's now from York. So I'm getting the train to Rotherham. What's the football? Where is the football? Where is the football? Directors box Sitting, no I'm sitting with your way fans

Just do with your way fans? Yeah, yeah You mean with your way fans rather my way That is hardcore You did in York Barbican? Yes, probably Yeah Fair enough

It is that one, it is that one Good room, good venue, good place And then Nottingham City Hall, that's lovely Is that what it is? Yeah, concert hall is it? Consult, yeah, it's nice Very nice, very nice indeed

Sunday night Sunday night And then home From Sheffield to Exeter Yeah, drive All the way Not Sheffield, Nottingham. Nottingham, I'm sorry, Nottingham to Exeter.

That's weird, right? I always confused that Nottingham one with Sheffield as well. Yeah, me too. I think the rooms look similar. The rooms look... Because you never actually see the city, we just see the room. Yeah, I always make that mistake of remembering that Nottingham room as Sheffield. Oh my God, we are so...

Should we get our dicks out and touch the ends? Why not? Well, once we've been filmed. Yeah. That's mental. Three, I haven't changed my pants. I think the social numbers would be worth it. Yeah, but there's a limit to what.

we do for viral. We can't start an only fans just because of the numbers. I don't know. Anyway, but yeah, I do get confused. So that's a long old, and then what are you doing Monday? This? No, we've got a day off. Oh, I've got something. When's the tour finished for you? I was meant to be working on Monday evening, but it got scuppered by a decision that I disagree with. Are we allowed to talk about this? No, but... No. Right, Lauren Leverne today. We love Lauren You love her more than me. Well, not more than me, but you're well into the honour of her. I love you more than anyone.

No, not more than me, but you love her more than, well, you're more aware of her work than I am. I'm just a huge fan of six music. I'm not a massive fan of six music. That's why in this interview I didn't really go down that sort of, but rabbit hole. What we do prove in this episode, full disclosure, this is intros afterwards. D.I. D.D.X. What? Desert Island discs.

There's, if you are interested in the ins and outs of Desert Island discs, there's a lot of that. We go deep. We also go deep in she's been unwell with cancer. we talk about telling kids, so a bit of a trigger warning if anyone's unwell at the moment. We also talk about

what else we talk? Really interesting, like moving social mobility. Social mobility. It's great. And she's a big ambassador for enjoying the teenage years. Yeah, she's really enjoying

having teenage kids. Go on. Laurel of her. Welcome. Hello, Rob. Welcome to the podcast. We're very excited to have you on. Thank you for having me.

You've been, talking, we've been excited to have you on three ages but I think Josh you're maybe a bit more of a, it could spill over into a gushing mega fan. A huge fan. I listen to you every day. Every day, that's Josh. What I liked about

when you did the breakfast show is you'd clearly gone, I won't do earlier than 7.30. You used to do breakfast on six music at 7.30. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to sustain it because I had so much else that I did already and sort of at the other end of the day. Do you know what I mean? I was a bit worried about burning out, you know.

But the people listen to the six music. 7.30 is about normal. It's sort of a... A bit more arty and a bit more... Seven is more of a traditional breakfast. I had done a very early breakfast show before on another station many years ago. So I did a one. I used to do one that started at six and finished at nine.

And that was really tough. I did that actually until I got pregnant with my eldest son, funnily enough. And then I was pregnant with him and I was doing pop TV shows at the time. And the obstetrician just said, because I think I'd done like a 22-hour day or something like that. Oh, my God. The doctor was like, you just cannot, cannot do that. And so you went back to it for a bit. For six years.

What era of childhood would that have been then? So that was, so I went back eight years ago, started doing breakfast again. It was a big thing to take on, you know, doing the breakfast show. And yeah, so I started doing that in Desert Island, discs at the same time. All of that happened at once. It was quite an intense period. And they're quite different tones as well. Very different.

And then also my dad died at the exact same. So like I got my, you know, like, oh, honestly, he would have laughed. You've got to laugh. Otherwise you cry. But like, no, this was it. I got these new jobs. And then a couple of weeks later, he knew that I got Desert Island Discs. And that was the last thing we talked about, actually.

He's like, are you doing Desert Island Discs? I was like, yeah. And then, you know, then he wasn't well. And then, you know, a couple of weeks after that, he died. So all of that happened at once. It was a lot. How old were your kids at that stage as well? The kids would have been, so eight years ago,

so I guess like seven and seven and ten or something like that. Busy, yes. Yeah, eight years ago, yeah. That's peak like clubs after school, music trips and parents' evenings. It was full on, yeah. And now you've got teenagers? Yes, so they're 15 and 18 now. And does that feel like you're kind of almost?

is it quite chilled? For me, yes. I mean, everyone has different experiences. I am a big fan of the teenage years. Are you? Because I hear a lot of people complaining about it and sometimes I'm sure with really good reason. But I feel like people are quite negative

about the teen years and I sort of think as a parent I'd quite like to be a champion of them. Like there were definitely, you know, big, difficult things about being a parent of teenagers. You get like adult-sized problems that your children are dealing with for the first time and that's quite hard. You know, when your kids are sort of muddy puddles ages,

like something goes wrong, you can kind of manage it for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These ages, that starts to change. I'm still at the age where I think I can fix everything, but you just can't do that with the teenager. You can't, you know, and your role becomes, you become more of like a supporting actor

than like a main protagonist, do you know what you mean? So that's definitely like a tricky transition, but I'm such a big fan of the teenagers. I love it. It's, I mean, apart from the fact that, like, it's just so excited. you know, seeing all of these firsts, like, you know, who your kids are going to be. You get a real sense of them as grown-ups, the way you hang out together, you know, the things that they love.

You can kind of share the stuff that they're into with you. Like, my eldest came up to me last night and he was like, mum, if you have heard goldfraps, felt mountain. And I was like, yeah, yeah, have. Good album, good album. Because they've got all music at their fingertips because of. Yeah. They know, that's the weird thing. It's like kids know all music. So the other week I was playing, we had a playlist of my husband's on. And my god, my goddaughter, who's around our house,

a lot, my best friend's daughter, she was like, is this to Pesh Mood? And my 15-year-old one, yeah, yeah, to enjoy the silence or whatever it was. You know, like, they know. Well, it's great for, the algorithm for music's great, because if you go, I quite like this song, it will literally bring you up 10 other songs that are like that from the last 60 years. And they just know everything. So my 18 year old, he's really into like everything from hip hop to, you know, alternative indie.

But he's got like a three hour like Stan Getz, Boston Over playlist. Do you know what I mean? It's three hours long. I couldn't make a three hour Boston Over playlist. But he's from Boston over to drum and bass. They know all of it. Because back in the day, if you like music, say you're into like heavy metal, you'd have to go, it'll be like your older brother might have a mate at school.

that was into heavy metal. The gatekeeper. Yeah, and you've gone and speak to them and have like five songs or an album. But now you can just, the whole internet's there to access it. It's incredible. Yeah.

He's going to make some like incredible artists in the next 20 years. Well, I mean, I think it is, you know, in a serious point, I do think that's why, you know, we look at like the breakdown of genres. Sort of starting, I think, in the mid-noughties,

you can see an artist like Amy Winehouse. Yeah. To me, she represents like the beginning of that sort of digital culture where all the reference points exist in perpetuity. on the internet. So she's got this kind of Shangri-Laz sound, but she's got a very kind of colloquial modern way of writing her lyrics. And then this kind of soulful voice that this is. So all these different kind of non-contemporary influences coming together. And that's sort of what modern music is.

You know, modern pop music is very literate in all those things. You know what? That's the best point we've ever had made on it. I'm going to pass that off as my own. Please do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wasn't it my, my, I sort of my perception of it, though, Rob set it up. You two have come up with it and I'm going to use it. Swooping. Yeah, Swooping. The humble jog.

If you could just chip that bit out, Michael. My wife said, when I said that you were on this, she said, oh, she said something I loved Lauren LeVern. She said that when she had kids, it was great because she stopped trying to be cool. Oh, yeah, very much so. I mean, it's humbling, isn't it? Obviously, every parent knows this. It's just a massive kind of. of exercising ego death basically.

Yeah. I think for me it was good. I was relatively young when I had kids. So I had my first son at, I guess, 28, 29. And then my second one, I was 30, 31. We're of that generation where that's considered like young. Yeah, well, the funny thing was, well, I remember after I had my first son,

there was only me and my best friend had kids at the same time. Nobody else that I knew had kids. Nobody else had sort of got to that point yet, really. And I went out with my auntie. And she came down to London to see the baby. My auntie Jean and my mom, my mom was already there. And we all went out to a cafe and I remember my auntie Jean going, the good thing is, pet, you're an older mother.

So, you know, and I promise you, I felt like I was about like 15 with this baby. I'm going to do with this baby, like, you know, just felt so out of my depth. But she was like, oh, 29, you know, practically a grandma kind of thing. So it's funny that. How was it being down south, though, in a sort of industry where being a mum at that age and taking time off and, you know, women's bodies were so under the microscope that whole time and being away for your family. How was it stressful? Was it worrying?

Well, also, this is 20 years ago nearly, right? So it was a very different time. So, I mean, I got, I think, four weeks maternity leave with my first son. Oh, my God. What were you doing? I was doing a TV show. And while I was off, I was getting texts from people on the TV show going, such and such is after your job.

Oh my God. To try and scare you into coming back. Oh my gosh. So, you know, it was a different industry back then. Yeah, yeah. I mean, luckily I was always able to work part-time, which really helped. But, you know, when I had my kids, I really had no expectation that I would be able to continue to have a career. I was doing radio on TV at that point.

And I just sort of thought, oh, well, this, probably I'm going to have to go to university when they're old enough. I thought my husband would keep working. And then, because we were both working in telly, he was working in production. And then weirdly, it just over the next couple of years, we had another baby. And then actually I was about to have that second baby, it just all went, and things in my career started to take off.

And the maths just changed, you know? Suddenly it was one of those things where, actually, if I go out to work for the afternoon, hard time, it's more sensible if I do that. And you are here with the kids. So then we're sort of switched. Because was TV, because I obviously, I'm originally aware of you as a pop star long. Wow, that's a stretch.

Yeah, in a band. And so then I knew you were in a band. And then was TV a decision or did you kind of drift into it from that? Just fell into it from being on Buzzcocks and things like that. You know, I was on those sorts of shows. And then in those days, there was so much telly, right? So this is like pre-internet. There was like hours and hours of cable tele to fill up.

So you got put on cable kind of... So there was people just going like, oh, do you want to do a bit of present? Because if you're funny or, you know, you look the part or whatever, they would say, oh, do you want to do a bit of presenting? And so obviously I did, it was great shoe money. Do you know what I mean? I just thought fun, why not?

And then I did some radio cover. What's that phrase? Shoe money. You know, so it's just like, yeah, just like, make a little bit of money here and there, spend it on shoes, fine. But no, so I sort of fell into doing the telly and then actually got the chance to do a bit of radio

and I really loved that. Yeah. There was something about that. I thought, oh, this is good. Because it's, I always say it's showing off in private. You know,

you're hidden away, but you get to do, because I'm not really a kind of being out the front type person. I'm actually a little bit more of an introvert, really. So it's all kind of a kind of stumble and find of it. Yeah, really it was.

I mean, I was supposed to go to university and have, you know, I imagined having it, like my dad was an academic. And I thought I would, I wanted to be, a historian, you know, and

work at a university like he did and I wanted to have an office that was like full of books and have music on really loud like he used to. He was a sociologist and actually I kind of have got that life but like in a very roundabout way and via a different sort of means. I've now

got my room that's full of books and records and but I just weren't about it anyway. But the records is the thing that's paying the money rather than the boats. When Westchard first took flight in 1996 The vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion. Inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel.

While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when Westjet welcomes you on board. Here's to Westjetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Is that quite interesting when you've got teenagers? Are you like just do whatever, whatever you want to do, just drift and get all find? And this is the funny thing is, I think when you've had quite an unconventional life, so, you know, my mum and dad were like those 1960s working class kids who were the only ones,

my mom was one or nine, my dad was one or six. They were the ones in their family that got to grammar school. And so they both went to grammar school. And then that meant that we were suddenly on this, like, slightly more, they became teachers eventually. Like we were a little bit, this middle class branch on a very big working class family tree. To that, well, you're basically the raw family now. were like you so I always thought you will understand this Rob I always thought I was posh until I met posh I didn't know anybody I thought I was posh until I came to London and then I was

oh because also my dad told us we were rich so when I was growing up my dad used he would say oh well rich us he would just say it yeah and like his dad was like that he would say he told me grand he was one of 13 my grander and when he met my grand who had my dad when she was 18 my grander had been in the RAF and he was flown up to Balado and Kinross in the Highlands she was local girl in the Highlands and he charmed her and said

he was a rich only child he was one of 30 and he was working down in mine already when he wasn't in the RF anyway long story short she was pregnant with my dad and moved to South Shields to live in a basement and she found out that he wasn't by all of his brothers and sisters

got on the bus to go on honeymoon with them. That was how she found out that it was one of 13, yeah. No way. Luckily my grand was good, crack, and she absolutely loved it. She thought it was really fun. But yeah, you know, my dad used to tell us we were rich, right? So, you know, I had that just a

very different kind of life from the one that I was expecting. I thought I would kind of follow that more traditional go to university, you know, I'd gone to like a good, like a convent school and everything and I was in trouble a lot for having people. care but I was like bright and so I sort of thought I'd just have a different life and then

you know I started a band in the school holidays because we were bored and and John Peele played our record you were like really young 16 yeah were you on top of the pops at 16 I was on top of the pops at 18 so I signed I remember signing the record deal with EMI when I was 18 in two weeks what was your bank called I think I missed the band here we're probably this is probably before your time Rob because you're a bit younger than me but we were called Canicki so we were named after the hot guy in Greece yeah the cool guy the hot 47 year old man in Greece that played an 18 year old I'm finally old enough let me enjoy it right so so we were we were called Canicky after him and we formed the band and just it sort of took off in the way that things did in the 90s you know

in a small way quite quickly and then we've got a record deal and I remember signing it yeah I was 18 and two weeks. And when you're in a band at that age, do you think this is going to be my life? Or do you think this is going to be a fun thing I do for a couple of years? I mean, I was like, what the fuck is this? You know, basically, it was like the way, this is the thing, because you're saying to me, like, what do you say to your kids about? Like, follow the rules and make sure you've got it. Like, I didn't do any of the things, right? So my poor parents who'd come from, like, really quite difficult, like, you know, circumstances, poverty-wise, suddenly got us all these chances and then I'm like well

no medieval studies for me I'm deferring Durham University I'm off to London to join a bag so you had a place in Durham as well so I had a place to do medieval studies oh my god so that is the old from that you know your dad's get into his position after his background

and now his daughter potentially going to Durham to do that yeah and I mean my dad he became an academic as well eventually but so you know he was actually and he was always a guitarist so he was really supportive they both were. But it was definitely like a bit of a bracing moment, you know.

And now I think about it a lot. I wish they were here because they both died, you know, within recent years. And I wish they were here to talk about my kids because now I'm at that age. I'm thinking, God, you know, I've got a son who I was living here by the time I was his age. Like no mobile phones or anything. Oh, God. I wish they were here to talk to about it.

Yeah. Imagine if you just got on a bus to Newcastle from London, that far away from you. Exactly. you're trying to, which is what I want to do, go, just do whatever you want. I think as well now, things are changing, the truth is in the world of work, things are changing so fast, aren't they? And in education, you know, you look at a lot of kids going to university and then kind of coming home and having a lot of debt and not being able to get the jobs that they're expecting they would. That's a real situation for a lot of people. So I think I'm trying to be flexible and also we understand more about kids now.

You know, we understand about things like neurodiversity and stuff that we just went at, in, you know, the 90s, you just didn't know about that or talk about it. He's a bit of a funny fish would be say, and that wouldn't catch her about 20 different conditions. That was as far as it went. Yeah, it's a bit of a funny fish. Yeah. And then you know, you would make allowances, but that was basically it. Like, that was that or, you know, maybe if you were like. An uncle that turned up and didn't speak at one social gathering for 25 years.

He's a bit of a funny thing. If you were like super dyslexic, someone might have noticed. Yeah, you'd get a laptop in any example. Like my husband was, you know, told he was probably dyslexic when he was young. And then I think the decision was made was like, yeah, but what's going to happen about it? Yeah, yeah. Well, you had that, didn't you? Well, you only got diagnosed about a year ago about the dyslexia.

And how did that happen? Was it because of the kids? A friend's kid got diagnosed and Lou read the report. This is my husband. So he's like, my youngest was getting diagnosed with dyslexia. And the educational psychologist is going through. And you can see here, you know, he's missed out some words and he's just guests. And Graham's like, everyone does that, don't they?

Yeah. And she went, oh. So is it dramatic? Yeah. You get it down the paternal line. Yeah. Right. So for me, that's when I started trying to help my kids with their homework.

I was doing it worse than they were. And to the point where Lou had to pull me aside. And they were, because they would get, I'd help me the homework if Lou wasn't around. And then I'd get emails back going. If you're struggling with it next time, ask a parent. And I was like, I've already fucking helped. So that Lou, because I don't write in full sentences at all. Well, this is the thing is it because people do, it's a language process.

issue. It's not just reading. Yes. You can be quite fluent at reading. Your spelling can kind of be okay, but actually things like lists can be really difficult. Work in memory. Yeah. So that you can't, so if I read a passage of a page, I can read it to a certain level, not as fast as someone who's not dyslexic, but I can't remember any key information.

Right. So I can't do novels. Because there's too much information to keep in my head and I can't keep it there. Yes. But I can read a book about maybe, if it's a biography of someone I know quite well, I've already You've got a basic of understanding. And if I'm writing stuff down, I have to write it in bullet points because I can't keep the ideas in my head. So I write the ideas in the shortest form and then go back to expand on it.

And that's why I had speech therapy as a kid because I should speak too quick to get the ideas out my head before I forgot. Yes, yes. You still have totally dealt with that. No, not at all. But yeah, so it's, I noticed that with the kids for the homework. I don't know if that's a couple of your husband is. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, well, this is the thing.

And so you kind of got to look at your kid and sort of say, well, what sort of situation is going to suit them? My eldest is he's 18 and he's at film school now. Yeah. And absolutely loving it, you know. And that just really suits him. He's learning, but he's learning by making things, you know. He's a very, he's great with like visual learning and all that kind of stuff. And he's actually a good writer as well.

But like, you know, I think you've got to be sort of open-minded. And even then, it's a kind of a different type of qualification to A-level. So it's a little bit more like an engineering qualification, the one that he's getting. And I had to get my head around that, you know, because I had my moment of like, okay, well, we've got the house and everyone's done this and sort of work's gone okay. And then it's like, I'm not going to do A-levels either. And you're like, okay. Well, especially if you're like, you were good at academia and you had your like space.

Because you can be a brilliant writer if you're dyslexic. Yes. It's just a different process of putting it together. It's not like if you're dyslexing you write something, it's full of spelling mistakes. It's not. It just takes you a different way to build it as a, you know, the end products can be brilliant. Completely. And a lot of people, it's interesting. It's a bit like, I mean, all these kind of neurodiversity, there's no hard lines between all the different aspects of neurodiversity, is there? Because I remember talking to the David Mitchell, the author, not the comics, who wrote Cloud Atlas. And he had a stammer when he was young.

and he said, like, he can always tell by the way someone talks, you know, the way they speak, if they're trying to avoid the letter that makes them stammer. And he said that him becoming a writer was because he stammered. So because he stammered, he wanted to avoid certain words. So we had to learn to kind of navigate language. So then he became a writer, and it makes me wonder about dyslexia and comedy and language. It's like, you know, you're developing all these coping mechanisms that you don't even know you've got. And actually it makes you, it teaches you to think in a certain way, to think laterally, to make connections.

And actually, really, that's sort of what jokes are, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It's sort of unexpected delightful. Improv stuff where it's in the moment. Yeah. But that's the thing I struggle with a little bit is you're told, oh, you're, say dyssexic, for example, it's a superpower. And it's sort of like, okay, well, what does that actually mean? Because I know we want to be positive about it rather than because there's been negative connotations.

But like, is that a superpower, what is called imbuilt that because you have dyssexic, your brain's why? like that or is that superpower from your coping mechanisms of being under a lot of stress over 15 years 20 years of god i don't know the answer to that think think think and you and it's becomes a skill you know when you work that muscle to make connections and come up with a response so it's like it's got to be it's got to be so yeah but i just sort of like i don't know what comes first you know yeah i think it's definitely it's got to be both so i try with my kids you know to take them as they aren't to let them play to their strengths. Do you know what I mean?

Whatever they're very different. You know, I've got two boys and, you know, my eldest is at film school. The little one wants to be a fashion designer. You know, he's absolutely obsessed with fashion. They're both very creative. We did a lot of like creative stuff as when they were little, you know, a lot of kind of art galleries, a lot of museums. So you're, because you're fronting this new campaign?

Yes. So you feel really strongly about this? I do, yeah. So, well, it's this research that Clarion did find art of. done and they've found out that this research shows that like 97% of parents I think it is know that like cultural experiences days out are really good for their kids you know they build confidence they kind of bond the family they're great for curiosity and all this kind of stuff but only about 50% of parents have taken their kids to an art gallery now why is that you know and a lot of parents

are saying the research shows that a lot of parents feel it's because either they're they're worried that, you know, the place that they're going to go won't have child-friendly facilities or that their kids will be judged, that they or their kids will be judged for, you know, making noise, misbehaving, all the sort of stuff that you feel. Because it is like, you know, when you're going, where should I take my kids? You think loud or messy or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There is an inbuilt fear, I think, with taking your kids out that you're, you know, scream at you or something and then everyone will be looking at you. Yeah. I think as well, though, if it's those kind of working, like, you know, my family, we never went as kids. It wasn't even on the table as an option. And I think, one, because no one went in our circle, but also as well, I think that would be, seems, not a place for us. Whether we'd be loud or not, and I think that it would be the parents' lack of confidence where the kids would probably be fine. Yeah.

But this is a nice cool room and looking at stuff where it would be the adults going, they would feel. This is your thing. The other thing that the research actually showed was that, you know, when they did go, the kids, kids actually loved it. You know, they responded in a much more positive way than the parents might have anticipated. So it's definitely, I think there's a parental anxiety thing. Totally.

There are absolutely, you know, the barriers that you're talking about, like cultural barriers, sometimes that can be financial barriers. But actually, the research showed that even when that's not the case, it's still only this, like, 52% of parents who have taken their kid to a gallery. Now, why is that? You know, so many galleries have brilliant facilities for families. You know, they're free.

And loads of kids. interactive areas. Oh man, it's screen free. I mean, what did Picasso? And it's a free day out. A free day out, you know, how many of those do you get? So it's big. We took my daughter to the, we take her,

we moved out of London now, but we used to take her every year to the, you know, the show where everyone can submit, what's that called? The Royal Academy Summer Exhibition. Yeah. And there's so many, there's like literally a thousand things. Yeah, they do this thing called the hang

and like all of the portraits of, and paintings and pictures are packed really tightly, aren't there? It's not like she's expected to stand there for 20 minutes and look at her landscape and respond. She could, it's everywhere and they, she can find stuff and she could, and she loves it and she's really into art. So that, but that drove us, I think also my wife's mum is an artist. So that helps. That helps. But that drove us to, it's earlier.

That drove us to take her there because you're like, oh, you like art, let's take it to that. but you do imagine that there'll be, you know, people tutting or whatever. Do you know what I mean? And that's what you've got to get over. That's another cultural thing, isn't it? That we sort of imagine that galleries are like these serious cathedrals of the art and cultural experience. And I think that's one of the reasons that I'm lucky because, you know, even though

I'm not actually posh, obviously I grew up thinking now. Yeah. But like we were always taking. My mom and dad took us to everything. like every art gallery, every music, everything they could get us to, they took us to. So I always felt like it was for us. I had like a very

no brow. I had all my family including my mum and dad were working class. That was the culture that I was from. But you were an anomaly in that group though? Because if you're their siblings, were they doing that, your cousins? No, not really. No. So we were definitely we were a little bit different. But I think

I had the best of both worlds, right? So I had all that kind of warmth and support and the fun of like working class culture and access to that, but they wanted to make sure that we didn't miss out on all the good stuff that you get if you go to galleries. And that's the thing. It's like they are for everyone. You know, our galleries shouldn't be like that. I'm not saying we go into the tape modern screen your head off. No, of course. You might do not ruin someone's day for no reason. Although I did take my, when my eldest was very little, we went to a Rothko show and we walked into a room that was just red and he went,

wah! But that's part of the experience of it, you know, and it's funny. Other people would be laughing. Also, that's probably how Rothko felt on the day. That's what those paintings were about. But this is the thing, I think it's just sort of trying it. And your kids might surprise you. You know, everybody was a baby once.

Everybody was a kid once. There's that saying, isn't there? You know, you get to have a child-free life, but you don't get to have a child-free world. Yeah. And I think, actually, galleries are, in general, getting a lot better at making families. Also, if it's a summer holiday, sorry,

if it's a summer holidays or a Saturday morning, you're moaning about kids, go on a fucking Wednesday. Yeah. I mean, you've got all week, Monday to Friday term time, and there won't be one kid there. If you're going on a Sunday afternoon and there's kids there, leave and come back in the week.

That's it. Well, and also, you know, from a family perspective, like there are so many activities for kids and galleries. It's screen-free. You know, we're always talking about, like, how can we kind of get kids off screen and screens. There's a list of places people can go over the Easter holidays, or is there like, is there a website,

or where could they find more at our? Well, they can find out more about what Clarendon are doing, the Clarendon Fine Artware. website. That's a good place to start. And then, yeah, I mean, just check out your local galleries and see what they've got on offer because they might surprise. Do you know what? You don't, I mean, I've moved to

Devon, so I'm like supporting the regions. But like you think, oh, well, that's just a London thing, but it's not. Like, there's an exit, we've got, like, Grayson Perry's got an exhibition at the moment. And you go, there are stuff everywhere around the country. It's not just

like a kind of, so you have to come to London because that's where you see all the famous paintings. It's not his play, right, Grace is such a good example, isn't he, of that? You know, that it's sort of playful and irreverent, and there's, there's, all these qualities that actually, they're best exhibited in kids, in children. I also think, like, from my experience of taking my daughter to things, kids respond a lot to more modern art, do you know what I mean?

Because it's the more conceptual, mad kind of stuff that she'd see, she'd go, oh, I've got, she's, I like that, or I hate that, much more than she would with maybe a kind of, you imagine it's, you know, old oil paintings or whatever, but it's fun. Well, this is the thing and it's, you've just got to try it and see, and they'll probably surprise yet.

I mean, that's what the research showed. But for me, it's interesting because also you do, as a parent who takes their kids, and I was a kid who was dragged direct. My mom loved history, right? So I was like at the Yorvik Viking Center. Oh, I love to you. I went to Yorvik.

Amazing. School trip. Right. Like, you know, every, stunk. Any holiday for us was like, like a bus to it and then like a walk around a cathedral smelling your own cagool where it's like you know what you've got like there's condensation inside and there's you've got your own like ecosystem going on like so and and I complained about that when I got to me teenage years and there's a bit where they do but then suddenly it sort of switches again and so like that's like my son going you know like going oh no not another gallery and then suddenly come to me be like mom are we uh are we members at the v and a oh and I'm yes yes. Yes, we are.

Obviously, you're a very working class northern background. How did you feel like when you've worked to the BBC for years now, like over 20 years, and that is incredibly middle class and establishment, especially Radio 4 now with Desert Island-Dist, how have you found that world? Well, it's funny. I mean, because like I say, you know, with mum and dad, they worked in education and they, you know, they came, had an upbringing that was very working class and retained that culture. But then I suppose I had a conventionally middle class in some way.

way's upbringing. But there were certain things like we never did, we never went to restaurants or anything, we never ate out. You know, like nobody, we didn't know anyone who played golf or skied or anything. I don't really have that kind of layer of... The door was creaked open, but you weren't fully in. So I can sort of get by, but I'm

not fluent in the language of that culture, I would say. So, yeah, I think it is a different culture. Because your, on this, your accent's a little bit softer. Is that intentional or do you just slow down? I think it's because I'm slowing down

and because I'm concentrating and obviously also does Island Discs has a very big international audience. Oh really? Was that a consideration? I do want to make sure that I'm understood but it's not like it's not intentional, you know. I think probably if you're listening to Jill Scott's episode where me it might come out, yeah. Well no

because he just was a bit more of a man and I didn't know if that was you know like you've more measured approach to the actor. I was trying to move into Radio 4 he wants to know what he wants to. No because I think you know I think the accent is beautiful Nobody said, torn it down kind of thing. No, no, but it's such a people of accident, it's great to hear that on establishment shows

and representing those areas. You can still tell it's on avern and where you're from, but it just felt a little bit more of a, was that more for the international then? I think it's like, you know, when I'm in, maybe when I'm in presenting mode and I'm kind of, you know, you, I'm, like, say I'm doing, reading somebody's introduction,

it'll often be quite wordy, if they're a scientist, or if I'm trying to, if I'm trying to, like, pre-see what string theory is at the beginning of a question, which is how it's slow in it, it'll be more measuring, with it rather than a casual. Well, string theory, right?

So quantum physics, either really, really big or really, really small. Yeah. Strings are really tiny. How does it work with Desert Island discs? Do you, how long is that record? It depends on the person and it depends on their availability

a little bit. So, you know, if you're doing the Secretary General of NATO, quite busy, so you might get an hour. How was that? That was great. I was so worried about that one. That was when it was, you know,

Jan Stoltenberg was the Secretary General of NATO. And he was the Norwegian Prime Minister three times. Really fascinating guy. Fascinating guy. But I was like, you know, I knew I had a very limited time with him. And I was like, what are you going to connect over? Bodo Glynn, I thought I've got. I saw his list, right?

And I'm looking at his music list. I'm like, great track, great track. And then like, Schmerz. So we put this Norwegian techno band. I was like, I said, I put them on. I had a gig in London, right? I was curating this season of gigs and I'd put them on, these two girls playing this like R&B-infused

techno and it was his daughter. Oh, wow! Oh, wow. Talk about nepotis. I'm stuck you on it on this. So I was like, and obviously he said, you know, so I was like, oh, I could say, oh, I put your daughter's band on him so we were instantly like we did her.

So sometimes music does the work for you, you know. Do you have to sit and listen to the song with it? Because obviously in the thing, it's edited down. Do you, where do you look? That's what a good question. It depends. It's really interesting. And also how people react.

So, you know, the truth is, like sometimes it's a very tight record. And it might be more like Steven Spielberg. I remember we had two minutes more than the record, the length of the program. So you cut the music then. So that was like very brief. And we just did a little bit of up sync of the music. So 30 seconds or something. And then, but then others, you know, it might be a bit longer.

If it's someone who really likes a chat, like Stephen Graham, we had such a great chat. Oh, that's an amazing way he talks about his wife is incredible. Oh, my God. I was in bits. I still remember the road. Rob, I went home. I said to my husband, I met someone today.

I've never met anyone who loves his wife as much as Stephen Graham loves his wife. He went, what about me? I went, no. More than you. It's like, so great. Yeah, it's brilliant. How are you with, there's an incredible clip of Ada. Edmondson crying.

Oh, yeah, yeah. How do you find that? We're not... Is it sneaky fist bump under the table for the oral clip? Oh, tears on tape, yeah. See, the opposite. This is the weird thing. People, you know, I think that's...

I'm comfortable with all the types of emotions. I think I'm lucky like that because some people, if someone gets emotional in front of them, they kind of clam up and they find it awkward and difficult. I've definitely never had that. I think I'm an easy person to open up to, and that probably helps me do the job. But, you know, the thing with when people get upset,

like we always see if they want to stop and we'd always check that they're comfortable where they're going out. Do you know what I mean? We're not kind of going, oh, great, this would be brilliant, you know what I mean? And then, yoink, we've got that now. That's very much not. That's not our approach to talk.

But I don't think you'll mind me saying, but when Jack Thorne was on, Jack, his fantastic writer, adolescence his load of the flies have just been on and everything's working on the new Beatles films now how is he doing those writers he's doing yeah uh amazing and jack got very emotional and there was this and so uh have we said you know jona stop and he was like no i'm okay and they said at the end we're like he'd been really quite uh you know teary and we said oh are you okay with us using that jack and there was this brilliant moment where he switched from being the person to being like jack thorne

Like who's the creator of so many hit shows And he went, oh no, use it all. It was great. It was so perfect. It was like, oh yeah, of course. That's why you're you, you know. So he was fine with it. But it's rare that people want you to stop.

And, Ed, you know, I did, I was kind of intimating to him. I'm okay, do you want to continue? Have you ever thought, this is some of the worst music I've ever heard in my life? For me, the music always puts you in the atmosphere of the person's life.

So one of my favorite episodes, which was not the one, like that as a listener rather than as a presenter, was, have you ever heard Hillary DeVay, the trucking magnate? No. Oh, the woman with the shoulder pads? The woman with the shoulder pads. The late Hillary, oh my God. Was that with you? No, that was one of Kirsty's.

It's so good. And so she, her music, it's all power ballads. And it's like, because it's perfect for her story. And her life story is so dramatic because she, she, she like, she marries a guy, but she finds out he's a bigomist. And then, like, there's another family. And then she gets really ill. And then she gets better. And then she becomes a trucking magnate.

And she's this, like, tiny woman. It's just brilliant. And then it's like, and now, Kirsty, my next track is simply the best. It's like, of course. Of course it's simply the best. It has to be. It has to be simply the best. So for me, it's like, you know, you really want to kind of breathe in the atmosphere.

songs bad the fun part for you is trying to work out why it means so much yeah exactly of course and and and I think as well you know that maybe that's the thing because I play so much music on the radio yeah 15 hours a week of music radio on six music like you get very relaxed about you know I don't judge other people's music taste or anything like because I've got plenty of time to I know what I like and I've got lots of time to show it off I'm not kind of like you're not like sure you're not you're not preferred to take this this is a much better version of that song But it is exciting when people take music that I love

especially if it's something a bit rare, you know, quite rare that you think, oh God, this has never been on before. That's exciting. I still quite like it when you say you get a book and the Bible and to somebody's completely not religious because I always think like, I just got a Bible with it. Some people don't take the Bible. I thought you get the Bible and another book, don't you?

You do. You can get the Bible. No, I'll take it. I'm not into him. I'll take it. Or another book. Or another faith text. Oh, right, or another faith text. Yeah, yeah. Why wouldn't you take one?

I think it's got some great poetry in there. Well, exactly. It's something to read, isn't it? It's something great. Whether you're into it or not. Have you done it? No. What, the Bible?

Have you done the Bible? I went to conference school for a few years, yeah. Oh, she's done the Bible, all right? So when you took the job, did you think, well, there goes, me getting to do Desert Islandists? No, I interviewed Kirstie. So, I mean, there's only been five people

who presented it in 83. three years. Oh my word. So you've got a long haul ahead of you to keep it going. I mean, who knows? But like when Kirsty left, who was my hero, my radio hero, then that meant that I had to do her program, which I was so nervous about. And actually, as it turned out, she was quite nervous about it. It was sort of perfect because, you know, she's like me, I'm much more comfortable asking the questions than being the guest. And so actually that worked out really, really well and it was it was a lovely thing to be able to do and she's got an incredible life you know to talk to her about it was wonderful but uh but yeah there's a tradition that you know when when you

leave the next person oh okay this episode is brought to you by fedex these days the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate launch the real power move is leveling up your business with fedex intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new power move. Do your kids listen to that?

Do they listen to your six music show? Do they watch the one show? They do. Yes, not like religiously or anything. No one watches the one show religiously, do they? No, that was you can't have that one seriously. Now, if you're seriousing that, someone comes to your house immediately enough if you're okay.

They do, they watch my stuff. They enjoy it. It ultimately comes on when you've served the kids their dinner, that's what I happen. It's definitely like that sort of time, everybody's just settling down for the evening. So, yeah, they do. The funny thing is that for a couple,

definitely for my youngest, a couple of times, Desert Islandists has come up as part of a school project. And he's like, oh God. He's like mortified, you know. But quite funny, I was nudging him, like, you'll, you'll like this.

And he's like, It's mad to be in charge of such an established something that's gone on for so long. They're becoming less, those. You know, like Question of Sport ended, and that went for years and years. Those sort of show, Blue Peter, you know, the shows that went on for 34? 83 years. I mean, I think the oldest radio program in the world, arguably. There's one in the States that claims to hold the title.

You're going to steer that ship to the 100-year episode. If I offered you now a 17-year contract. Who are you? The new Director General, I'm here. Turkey Ella Shake. How many weeks are you on? Oh, I think it's... Sorry, we've asked so much about Desert Island Disp.

It's just such a fascinating thing. It's a lot. I want to say, I want to say 50, it's most of the year. It's most of the year. I feel like we have sort of August off and a decent Easter, but it's... So you're constantly reading about people? I read a lot, yeah. Yeah.

Have you ever had anyone on that you actively dislike that you've met in your career and you just had to grit your teeth and plough through? Interesting question. No, luckily not. But it's, I think one of the interesting things that the jobs taught me is that if you really seek to understand someone, it's very hard to dislike them. Really?

Even if they have very different views from you, if that, you know, like the more kind of open-minded you are about. Because you have a lot of politicians on, don't you? Right. Well, we've done a few. I've done a few. You do party leaders, don't you generally? Yeah, I did Kirstama and I just did Kemi Bader, not really. recently and I think it's that thing of like wanting to understand a person yeah as a whole is actually it's very very difficult to really despise someone if you've genuinely tried to engage with like who they are and because even if even if you don't warm to them you can still see why they're like me if they said to you he's got an hour in Donald Trump's over you got to take Trump an hour born in the USA immediately first one imagine

But that's like born in the USA is that it means the opposite. Yeah, he won't care. Just play the chorus, I'm busy. Would you take it? Oh, well, I mean, that's not up to me. Luckily, it's an editorial. Can you veto anyone off the record? There's an editorial process that goes on with Desert Islanders because it is,

I mean, you know, it's such an important kind of institution. Mark, have we got editorial process? I don't know. You know, you can, I can definitely, I can, we can talk. about, you know, people that we all as a team think are really great, and then they go through the process and... And is it like a Nando's Black Card? Do you have to wait to be asked?

And if you ask yourself through your PR, it's an immediate no? I mean... A little bit. I don't think that's a bad... Is anyone ever on promo? No, we don't do promo. I was going to say. No.

And you've got an album, Mel? You've chosen your own album? Does anyone... Have you ever had people choose their own music? Nile Rogers chose nearly all his own tracks. No. But luckily, it's Nile Rogers, so his fans. It's like David Bowie and Madonna and, you know, fantastic. Did you mention, did you go, and this is quite... I'm going to say it in Nile Rogers, don't play that, let's dance.

No, no, no, no, no. What are you going to play that's valid than that? Come on, no. You didn't go, oh, this is rare. This is a rare thing to do. Well, it's one of those funny things. It's not against the rules, but it, but it's a certain, you know, certain kind of section of the audience, I would say, don't approve of that.

Oh, is there a strong on life? Some people don't like it. In my experience of doing any radio shows, especially on Radio 2, there's quite a vocal contingent that seems to collect on Facebook as opposed to TikTok or Snapchat. That could be quite vocal. How much do you look at those comments, react to it, or do you completely ignore it? I don't look at any comments, really. You know, that's not my job.

My job is to, like I say, to try and understand the person that I'm interviewing that week, and I'm just totally focused on them. I'm really not focused on myself. you know, I'm not thinking about, I am thinking about the sort of technical things that I'm doing, but my focus is entirely on my interviewee. The programme is about them. It's about bringing out the best in them.

So, and I think for me, that's a comfortable way to do it. You know what I mean? I guess if I sort of sat and thought about like, oh, me and like, oh, what am I doing? And what are people thinking? It would just get too difficult, right? Whereas actually, I'm better if I'm like a little workhorse. if I've got a job, I know what I'm doing, I'm fine.

So it's like your job is to get to know, is to understand this scientist's discipline enough to ask them questions about it and know why they don't, why they're scared of cheese or whatever it is. Yeah. You know. That's childhood trauma.

That's childhood. It normally always is, as you'll know, from doing the... So it comes up in section one, comes back in section of. Can I offer an addition to the format? Please, yes. I mean, consider it's been going 83 years

and it survived this long without my... put um obviously do like songs and you do like a book you take or thing like what about a podcast a podcast what podcast would you take with you podcast is huge now it's a new thing BBC needs to move into the you know the future well I mean obviously does it and this is kind of the original podcast is it of course and that people have taken um David Mitchell I think took the entire desert island discs back catalogue he took the archive no no it's he took it as his luxury item as a kind of luxury item is it the writer or the comedian have you had both yes as a kind of as a sort of um actually i don't know that has david i thought yes yes no he has because i did

robert so and david robert web but i remember that the other david mitchell yeah took um the archive of desert island discs as like a history of humanity that's amazing and i always feel like what's lovely is when you're interviewing someone their family go into the archive You know, anyone that gets mentioned in their story, if it's someone they've lost, they're in there. People do it more than once as well, don't they? Yeah, I've done a couple of second time. Who's getting a sequel? Esther Ranssen, I did, second one.

Cliff Richard, I did his second one. Did Cliff's second one? Surely Cliff chose one of his own, didn't they? I don't think he did. No, Elvis was the only, I remember everything else had changed because the first time he did it, he was maybe just 20. Has Elvis done it? With Roy Plumley. No, and Cliff chose Elvis.

both times, but all the other discs had changed. Got you. Was what I was saying. So I've done a few people's second ones, and the most anyone's done it is four times. Four! And guess who that was? So, Even Stevens, Arthur Aski,

coming. Arthur Aski, yeah. And David Attenborough. Yeah, Attenborough. Four trips to the island. Do you know what? The four times they ask, I go, do you know what?

Give someone else a chance. Have you done Attenborough? No. Are you still going to come back for the fifth? Could do a fifth. number five. You've got to get back for the five for the century year. Yeah.

Did he change his songs? He might have. I'll have to double check. I don't want to get that wrong. But probably because I did Salman Rushdie recently and he. Oh wow. We had him last week. Honestly.

But the mad thing about that was the first trip to the island. He was like, no, no, the satanic verses was out. And we were like double checking because we're very, you know, we'll have to be correct of record. I'm all like, no, no, no. It was two weeks before the book came out. So in his head, it was like done and out. Yeah.

But actually, in reality, he spoke to Sue Lawley just before. So to then interview him, like, last year. Yeah. I mean, like, amazing. And all of his songs were bangers. He doesn't like sad songs. So it was literally like, Salman obviously has an incredibly intense, brilliant life, like creatively and personally.

But it would be like, that was Whitney Houston. I want to dance with somebody. And then he would be like, Salman, obviously. And then you'd have to go into like, like, full on. So you got attacked? The life of Salman. Yeah. Amazing.

Oh, my word. He was great. It was so much fun. So with your kids, to get back to that, I know we're so interesting. We've hammered. It's an institution, isn't it? Yeah, I love it. It's like talking about stamps.

It's so good. But I love that. I love that. How much people love it. I want a question. When you found out you're the host, where were you? Oh, I was. On a holiday, on a beach.

Well. I'd been on air on air on sixth music and I got an email from the director from the the um the boss of radio form yeah yeah saying can you just pop to my office afterwards which was it's just wasn't the kind of thing that happened to me be on a regular basis and she said to me you know um like unfortunately kirsty's not too well and we need someone to to cover does that we need someone to cover but she didn't say the name of the program now it's So Desert Island Discs was implied. Yeah. And I was like... We dare not speak its name. I was like... You know when you're like, can't be offering me

asking me to cover Desert Island Discs? Like, Kirsty must do another program. Because I was the biggest fan of Desert Island Disc in the world, like super, super, super fan. And I was like... And I just went, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. Just thinking, I hope it's about something I know enough about it.

Who was your first one? My first one was Tom Daly, the diver. Oh, what a lovely, what a lovely entry to it. Yeah. Oh, he's a nice boy. He's great. Pre-knitting, that was, getting back on top of knitting? It was, yeah, absolutely.

There must be people you've interviewed and gone, I've totally forgotten that. I do tend to remember quite well. There's a two-week period or a week or something where I was at work where I knew I had cancer. I hadn't told anyone and I was still at work. Oh, God. Oh, my word. And I can't remember anything about the whole time or any of the programme. that I made during that period.

So there's two weeks that I can't, because I think I was just under so much stress. Everybody else I remember. How much time did you have off when you was on well? Oh, it was like four, three, four months. Yeah. I was in hospital for a month and then if maybe three months after that, something like that.

And was a lot, you don't. First day back, share. I'm like, I'll leave it out of share. I've had three months there. There's no. There's no like phoning it in. It's like,

she will not be using anybody's surnames, yeah? Be ready. You need to know that David is Gaffin. They used to date, but they don't know. Oh, really? Oh, my word. Is it filmed now, or is it still just audio? It's just in the room, which is lovely.

And there. Can I ask about your cancer? Yeah. Yeah. What was it like when you had to tell your family? Was that really difficult? That was the hardest thing. Yeah, absolutely.

that was the most difficult thing. And there'd be parents watching this, listening to this, who have to go through that, and it is so hard. I mean, it's the worst, maybe the worst thing about it happening, is having to tell you kids. So we'd had, you know, my dad had died, my mum had died, and then I got a diagnosis. It was so difficult.

And it all happened in quite a short space of time. And they're sort of teen, tweenagers? They were, well, it was a couple of years ago, so teenagers. and so what can I say the really good thing was when my dad had died I had started having a bit of therapy and I'd been discharged

I'd had a bit of bereavement therapy and then my mum got ill and I was looking after her and she was living down in London you know close to us with us for a while and then close to us and so I'd gone back to therapy to help me figure out

okay I've got this I've got a very full on career, I've got the kids and everything, and how do I manage it? And that was invaluable. I'd been discharged again, but then when I was diagnosed, my GP, who was the one who referred me for the test that diagnosed me, which was just like a complete, you know, nobody was expecting anything. I was just caught on a checkup kind of thing. He got in touch with my therapist and said, Lauren's been diagnosed. and she messaged me straight away

and was like, I'm here if you need me kind of thing and so me and my husband went in and talked to her and the only thing we were worried about was how do we tell the kids? How do we get that right? And did you know at this point that it was treatable? At that point I didn't know anything

so I didn't know, you know, I knew I had it but I didn't know whether I was going to be all right I didn't know what that looked like, what the treatment would involve nothing. So, you know, it was really good to A, have the support and be, to get advice about, you know, how to talk to the kids. How did you approach it?

So she said, the best thing that you can do is to, like, know what you're telling them, right? So you want to give them as much certainty as possible. So for us, that meant waiting until we knew what we were dealing with. And I was so lucky. So I knew I was very, very lucky. I found out quickly that I was going to be okay, that it was very treatable, and that I was going to be fine. so I could tell them that.

So know what you're telling them. And be as honest as you can. Obviously, age-appropriate language and everything, but be straight with them. And, you know, let them ask anything that they want to ask. And so that was how we went into it. And it was really difficult telling them, but I'm glad that I waited until I kind of knew more of than understood.

And I would also say that I was looking at. because I had a therapist I could talk to, but McMill and the McMillan help line are fantastic. Oh, really? And they have lots of really good advice and on the website for parents about how to talk to their kids, about their cancer treatment and diagnosis.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, this is the thing, and that's being a parent, right? Like, you know, life happens, and the kids were amazing. You know, they knew I was going to be all right, but it was obviously incredibly difficult for all of us. My eldest son was going through his job, GCSEs that summer.

Oh, so I think, I think his results came in the day I had my operation. So I was lucky I had, like, it was just surgery that so did me out, but I was in hospital for a month. But, you know, it was a lot of pressure for him that day, and he was just incredible.

Did you tell them together, or did you? We told them together, yeah. Also for him on that day, your mom just got into operation. those kids want to keep the parents happy and show I've looked I've worked hard so he's got that pressure of these results and if they're no good

he can't take that to his mum in hospital with bad ones and he'll feel the guilt it's horrible I could you wrong up for clearing though couldn't I if he needed to get in some good drum joke you still got that place of Durham going from her but the thing is it's

you know I think actually in a weird way the sort of silver lining is it really gives you a perspective a set of perspective so when you're saying do worry about you know, what your kids are going to do. And like, I just want them to be happy, be together, enjoy life. You know, obviously, yes, I want them to get good jobs and be fulfilled and all that kind of stuff.

But actually what matters most is their relationships, you know, their safety, their emotional equilibrium and their happiness. So I think, you know, even though going through that was really awful, as a family, actually, we all learned a lot from it. And it sort of opened up. dialogue like a way of being able to talk about your feelings. Yeah. That is really good, really useful, especially for boys, I think, who can tend to bottle things up, you know.

Oh, my God, I can't. That's a really tough thing to have to go through. It was hard, yeah. It was really hard. Yeah. Oh, wow. We've covered a lot long. I have.

I mean, too much desert islandists, but that was our interest. And now the song you chose. Have you ever been into it? Skatman, John. Yeah. I'm a scatman by Scatman John. Sorry, I'm a scatman, sorry. Do you have the eight.

songs in your head that you know you're going to choose when they take over? I think for me it would be different every day. There'd be a couple that would always stay, but I think because there's so much, music is such a big part of my life. It can only really be a snapshot, I think. Do you get anyone coming up to going, I can't believe I pick that song? Yeah. I regret it.

Have you ever heard Judy Dench's episode? No. It's in the archive, right, so it's another one of Kirstie's, but it's so great, but she hates all her music. It's so funny. What when she's doing it? Yeah. It's so.

funny and she's in there she's got oh not they oh no oh no she's forgot she she's picked it she hates it and Kirsty's like well you know it's just so funny amazing I I was listening to Desert Islanders once it was live so it was on radio four and this shows a slight disconnect between the announcer on Radio 4 whenever this was about 10 years ago and mainstream popular culture he said next week on Desert Islandis, the comedian, Michael McIntyre. How have you not heard of Michael McIntyre?

It's a good episode as well, actually. It is a good episode. It's something about him. I remember, it's not one of mine again, but him hiding in a bush to try and woo his wife. Yeah, he talks quite well also about like other comedians

having a go at him and stuff. It's really, it's a great show. It's brilliant. I know you're not on for that. I love Desert Islanders. And we're going to take our kids to an art gallery in honour of you and your... Clarend and Fine Art. Clarendon Fine Art.

Clarendon Fine Art. And do you still go to art galleries with the kids? I do, yeah. Me and my little one, we spend, because he's really into design we're in the VNA, the entire time. The various V&As. Final question? Final question. We ask you on this.

What is your partner does as a parent where you go, oh my God, so lucky to be with him. What an amazing parent. And what does he do that if he was listening, that it annoys you. But if he was listening, he'd go, yeah, she's got a point there. That is annoying with my parenting. Oh my God, there's so much of both. Okay. I've got enough time.

He is a really fantastic dad. So he's got ADHD and my husband. Yeah. And one of the things I really love about him is that when, you know, when you're talking earlier about, or people say it's a superpower, like it really is sometimes. So like on certain things,

in our marriage, we've been married over 20 years now. I have never had to book a holiday. Like, have an opinion about white goods that are going to be bought for the house. Like, you know, I don't. Sometimes when we're going holiday, I honestly don't know where we're going. Really? Because he goes so single focus.

He's like, like in the matrix. Like at the minute, he's rewiring our front room because he's, we've got a drop down projector screen and he's moving it from one side of the room. Oh, that's quite sexy being able to do that. And he's like putting holes in the ceiling and all the wires going through. He's got these big kind of vintage speakers that he's hooking up and all that. I fucking love to make a hole in the ceiling

and know what I'm doing. Like, it is. So that, I just think that's fantastic. Like he's so capable in those moments. So that I really, really love. And then it's probably... He's got a book of holidays and making holes in the wall.

And that. And as a dad... As a dad, oh my, there's loads. I think because he stayed home with the kids while I worked when they were little, I always felt like they had a much more kind of adventurous, outward bound early childhood with their dad than they would have with me. Like if I had been home looking after them,

I think they would have been very safe and always clean, but we would have fed the ducks like eight million times, you know what I mean? Because I'm like a homebody. But he was like they were always out and they were always doing things. And they've got such a close relationship. So at the minute, like my eldest, like I said, he's at film school. And him and his dad every night are watching.

like at least two films a night. Oh wow. And it's all the stuff that you love when you're 18 because it's what my kid wants to watch. So it'll be like last night they watched like a razor head followed by like oh my God, some kind of horror, another kind of horror. Wow.

And that's such a nice thing to share with your son. Yeah, absolutely. And there's loads of things like that. But there must be a thing that grind your gears. The thing that grinds me gears. Well, it would probably be the flip side of the ADHD stuff. So he refers to them as like little clues.

But like, you know, when he's sort of doing a task, like he'll do it 99% but then he'll just, so see he'll empty the dishwasher, but like there'll be one pan that's left out on the side. Oh, he's got this right of it. I don't know if it's like he's lost concentration or if he's like, just letting you know that I empty the dishwasher. Like if it's a little bit of a clip,

but like it's just that thing of like, Just tying off the project. Finish a job. She was completely finishing things. Definitely he would see. Yeah, that's fair enough. Thank you so much, John. It's been amazing.

I loved it. Thanks for doing it. I'm going to go and see Grace and Parry of my daughter. ASAP. That sounds brilliant. On your say-so. Can't wait. That was Lauren Levern.

Love Laurenne. Love Lauren Leverne. That was great. But she's really fun and relaxed and chilled. Yeah, she's love. You never really know with someone who's on Radio 4. No. Because that for me is an immediate

probably won't like me, Red Flagg. The way, yeah, there's different Laurenne of her career, isn't there? If we'd said, Rob, you're interviewing the host of the one show, you'd have gone absolutely great. Alex Jones, get in here. But if you'd have gone, Rob, you're interviewing

someone from Radio 4, you'd got all on nervous. She's got different vibes. Well, I can't wait till your episode. When I'm on it? Yeah, go on. And I'm going to go full fucking cock. Like, disgusting. Cockney.

Not full fucking cock. First song pick is, fucking cock. My luxury item, a full fucking cock. Yeah, it's a beat poem I wrote in 2001 sets of bongos.

If Noel Rogers can pick his own, I can too. Cheers, guys. And I'll take two Bibles. The Bible they give you and a smaller one for walks. Hello, parenting hell listeners. Recognise that voice? Yes, it's Josh

Widdickham here. I have got a new podcast. Josh Widdickham's Museum of Pop Culture. And I'm going to say it, I'm about 85% sure you're going to love it. Here are the reasons why. Number one, I'm confident if you're listening now, you don't hate me, and possibly think I'm funny. Number two, I'm confident if you're listening now, you like podcasts.

Number three, I'm confident if you're listening to me and Rob, you prefer pop culture to people talking about things, let's be honest, boring things like history, economics or politics. I know I do, and that is why I made this podcast. I wanted a show that tells the stories I love from popular culture in the way other podcasts do for drier topics. See above. Basically, I wanted a podcast that realized Millie Vanilli were more interesting than Elizabeth I first. Join me as I give the definitive, or at least the funniest, takes on Mr. Blobby. When Ghost Watch convinced BBC viewers, ghosts were real, when a band burned a million pounds for a laugh, the Spice Girls, a truly catastrophic Spider-Man

musical with music from You Too, and David Hasselhoff, Baywatch, and his part in the fall of the Berlin Wall. All of them are real, by the way. Either you know what these, things are and you're about to learn far more about them than you ever realized you wanted to, or you don't, and you're about to be introduced to some of the maddest things in modern or ancient history. Stiff next will learn, lose next will laugh. New episodes available every Wednesday and Saturday, perfect to fill those gaps between your weekly doses of parenting hell. So go on, you might as well listen, subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcast now. Museum of Pop Culture with me Josh Whitakum, available everywhere from the 1st of January.