Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S12 EP42: Tinie Tempah

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant rapper and singer - Tinie Tempah. Parenting Hell is available to watch on Spotify every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xxx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  (Copyright 2026) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode's brought to you by Pizza Express. School holiday heroes are back at Pizza Express to save half term. Order a full price main for yourself in one of their pizzaeers before the 28th of May, and they'll make the price of a piccolo meal disappear. So super kids eat free. Plus, megatines can enjoy a classic pizza and soft drink for just £12. Incredible. Josh, school holiday heroes, what are we talking?

Oh, do you know what? Yeah. I absolutely love for school holiday heroes. is now we live in the country, opening the back door, we've got a trampoline. That's my school holiday hero. That gets us through hours of school holiday. What about you?

Can I approve upon your trampoline? Yeah. Heat wave, bit hot, 25 degrees, maybe 22 degrees. Sprinkler. Running the sprinkler, jump on a... Wetting the sprinkler, drying the trampoline. Beautiful, beautiful times. School holidays can be a juggle,

but Pizza Express Holiday Heroes help keep everyone happy. Download your code at Pizza Express. about us.com or redeem within the app. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Okay, Joe. Say Rob Beckett. Say Rob Beckett. Don't we?

No. Maybe. Say Rob Beckett. She talked to a dog? Say Josh Whittickham. Okay, fair enough. There you go. Surly teenager. Did you hear it?

No, I heard nothing. Oh, you couldn't hear him? No. Oh, he said, are you filmed? you're recording? She said, yeah. Why do I, if I can't hear very well, shut my eyes and lean forward.

I know. Like, it's going to, oh, all of a sudden. Yeah. I used to, when my car, I had an old car that used to like break and if you could smell, you'd, cause you smell smoke. Yeah.

You said to keep sort of a nose out for the smoke. Right, yeah. If I thought this happening, I'd turn the radio down. But not, you know, that's not going to affect my nose, but it's just, I'm on it, I'm focusing. I'll do that. If I'm late for a train,

yeah. I'll stop the music that I'm listening to on my eye To focus on getting on the train Yeah, yeah, exactly So I'm like, as if the music's gonna slow me down Crossing the Footbridge Depends what you're listening to Yeah, maybe I should go on to my

Pace Set a playlist available on BBC Sounds Oh, I've got a pace set of playlist Of BBC Sounds I've taken over the Pace Set of playlist Oh, you're such a bebe guy, aren't you? Hi, you sexy beasts, love the pod You ask for intros from older kids Here's my eldest bundle of Joy Jo

who's about to sit is GCSEs. Oh. Yes, he is, isn't it, guys? Oh, it's horrible. Oh, I should have done a video recording to capture the look of absolute disdain that only teen can give a parent, much love. Ream, R-E-E-M, from near Reading.

P.S. Her name's Ream. Yeah, like Dreamy. Like Joey Essex. Yeah, yeah. He invented the word Ream. Her name's Ream. I have vague memory that these are more likely to be read out

if sent early in the morning, So I've scheduled a 4 a.m. send. I hope it works. Fair play, fair play. Absolutely. I didn't know you could schedule a send. We're not going to say it was, but heartbreakingly, there was another email, but I couldn't make the MP3 work.

Katie Maynard. Oh, don't do that to her. Do you know what? Katie Maynard, send it in again. Yeah. Because I felt terrible. And I think we need some more children rather than adults. Yeah, we're done with the adults.

Also, teenagers' voices are surely deeper than when we were teenagers. I was mental, isn't it? Rob, Beckett. What's going on? Oh, Twittercom, you mug. And that's a 13-year-old Sam from the Whirl. Tiny Temper today. Yes.

Question. Go on. What are you going to call him? Mr. Temper? Mr. Temper? Tiny? Would you call him Tiny? Tine?

Tyn. All right, Tyne. T-T. I don't know. We'll ask him that. Yeah. I assume his kids call him dad. He's got two kids.

Have you met him before? I've messaged him because he's messaged me on Instagram. Did you reply? Diaries. Yeah, no, I said, yeah, we'll get you booked in. I got his email and stuff. And then gave it to Michael. And look, here we are. A year later. What should we bring him on? We're here. Let's bring him in.

Tiny Temple, welcome. Straight in. Wow. We don't fuck about it. How are you going to do? That's how we doing, though. Do you not like that? Is it too raw? No, it's good. It's better. We've done an intro to you. Already. I've got a game for you. I've gone.

Guess what is hot drink of choices? Don't look at it. What do you mean you're meant to be guessing? Yeah, but it's harder. cup oh no i suppose it would just ruin it if i guess so i don't think it's coffee i don't think it's tea because it would be boring if that was the worst game ever you know what let's move on it's a milky coffee um parmi i i think horlix is two left field maybe hot chocolate correct he loves it man after my own heart a hot hot jocky bloody yeah i love it i've got I have it every day.

Just one a day? One a day, yeah. I'm not crazy. Are you worried about the calories? Do you know what? Sort of. I do reckon it's going to catch up with me as, you know, life progresses. But I work out a lot.

I'm like, I'm insane. Jiu-Jitsu, isn't it? Jiu-Jitsu, man, yeah. So I think I should be all right, hopefully. You can take a hot chock a day. Yeah, and I don't really have too many desserts. I don't have sweets. I don't snack.

So this is like my little. That's your little thing? Yeah, my little thing. So after dinner, if you've got a little, excitement for a bit of sweet, you're just not having it. No, I'm not having it. You're just not having it? Unless it's a sticky toffee pudding.

Oh, wow, that is, yeah. On a Sunday. But that would be like a Sunday or in a restaurant, you know, exactly. Once a week, once a month, Matt. Welcome to off menu. There you go.

Have you done off menu? I bet you've done off menu, haven't you? I haven't, no. Oh, you should know. What was the saying? Is it good? I don't know. It's not funny.

I talk about what you want and I have for dinner. Is it? And we've done that. Yeah. Throw away. Wow. That's their main thing.

Wow. And we're just fucking... We're whipping through that in the first minute and getting you. Amazing. Bord of that because that's a shit idea for a whole show. But they're doing well to be fair. You said it not me. Yeah.

Guys, if you call me, I'll still probably do it. We'll chat before we started. You've had a bit of a break from music. Yeah. How many kids you got? I've got more than one, less than five. Boris Johnson. Yeah, Boris Johnson, yeah.

I like a... I want to keep a bit of mystique. Fair enough. You know, in a time where everyone divulges everything. You still got to keep a bit of mystique. I can say one is seven. One is seven. One is also four.

We can work with those nights. That's great. Yeah. One is seven. Okay. Yeah. So that may have coincided a bit of your, so did you have a conscious break from bringing albums out?

It was a conscious break. Yeah. I got to about 30. I'm 37 now. And I was just like, you know what? Like everything I dreamt of doing when I was 12 years old, I've pretty much done it. So I mean, you know, from Olympics to Glaston Breed to like getting number of records.

Would you compete? chords. I was doing a 200 meter hour. He performed in Olympics. Yeah, performed at the Olympics. Did you go? What ceremony? Yeah, in East London. Yeah. It was mental. So, um, did that with, you know, Danny Boyle, who put the whole thing together. We got this like letter. Everything is under embargo. You must sign this NDA. Oh, wow. Queen, well, the remaining part of Queen was there,

spice girls. It was ridiculous. Yeah. Mental. So in terms of like bucket list stuff, I've been like, I've done it. And you hear all these stories, obviously when you enter the entertainment world of like, you know, everyone goes through the highs and lows and then sometimes you can have the best career, but you just end up in this super dark place, do you know what I mean? And recreational stuff starts happening, you spiral out of control. I didn't want to be that guy. So I was like, let me just, you know, settle down. Let me have some kids and let me just get into like the normal realms of life because prior to that, I remember having days when I'd be like super anxious to like go to a Tesco's like, I'd be in a mad hoodie. I'd be like,

but now I don't feel like that at all it doesn't matter if one or two people recognise me or ask for a pitch art and I think this break definitely helped me with kind of getting rid of all that anxiety and you know So was it's where we went wrong Yeah that's what Josh needs to do

You guys just kept on going We kept on going Can we panic about it Panicking about it all disappearing Yeah I was panicking about it All disappearing I think I'd still to this day Have a bit of imposter syndrome

So I've definitely got this whole You know council estate mindset Where you come from in sort of Plumstead Abbey Wood. My family's all from there, my nan and granddad. Do you know, Motis front road by the train track line? That's where my man and granddad is. Do you know what? I always get stuck, especially with my white friends, because you guys are good at that.

Like all the lads from my school went and they go, oh, do you know this road next to that and that? My bearings are so bad. I know wind's common. I know Plumstead common. I know Plumstead High Street. But there were more Abbey Wood than Plumstead. Yeah, every wood. SE2 is a bit.

But that kind of area It's like no one really Does what you've done from the area really You're very much an anomaly But I tell you what the other day I did The sidemen Halftime show Yeah

You know the majority of the Or I don't want to say all of them But the majority of the sidemen Are from where we're from The sidemen? Yeah Didn't know that all belvedere If anything you're an underachiever Rob

Well I thought they were all from like A Hertfordshire KSI's part of sidemen Isn't he? Yeah yeah So maybe from When I first met KSI, he was living in, like, Kent, like, Orpinton. Yeah, so he bought a big mansion thing.

Yeah, like that big mansion thing. So maybe he had moved from Hartfordshire, maybe. Yeah, to the rest of them, like Zircar and the rest of the guys, they're all from like Belvedere. I didn't know that. Didn't know. There you go, Rob. Yeah.

He went to a school in Bexley Heath. I mean, if I was 10 years younger, I think I would have been the YouTuber. Yeah, you would have been maybe qualified. Yeah, yeah, but I just went into comedy. Yeah, but I just went into comedy. Yeah, but I'm. I was thirsty for it. You'd have made six times the money.

I really had to put a lid on the thirst. You don't look thirsty at any point. I feel like I'm constantly trying to rein it back in. So is this natural for you to be calm and considered and making these choices like to have seven years out or did someone have to convince you? It feels like you've always been quite in control. Yeah, I've always been quite in control.

And to be fair, it was a huge risk. Like, even getting back to it, it did. To be honest, I don't feel like I was met with a bit of resistance. I've been fortunate. It feels like there's a lot of love out there for me. But, you know, you do kind of feel like you're starting again to a certain degree. I'm just lucky that, you know, I haven't got a sad story. Do you got me?

Highs and loads have happened, but I've been very successful. It wasn't like you got that problem with drink or drugs and then had to stop. Exactly. Exactly. Have you done, what have you? Because I don't feel like, as some that's aware of Tiny Temper that you've sort of gone, gone. I feel like, I don't know, I just feel like you're still around. But have you done nothing in that seven to eight years then?

So in the seven to eight years, I think I basically settled down, had kids, picked up jiu-jitsu, started doing a bit of TV work, so coming for your gigs. Yeah, lovely, but surely. I'm glad to see you back in the music. Yeah, exactly. Can I just say you feel comfortable in the music? Yeah. Yeah, that feels to me where you should be. No, but I like the reassurance.

But, yeah, set up a studio, so we had studios before in Greenwich, but we were renting those, and then we got one of those horrible letters. You know, we're going to turn it into residences. You've got X amount of months to move out. So we ended up buying a place in northwest London. And so I did that. But that was like three years ago. So in this whole interim period, that's pretty much what I've been doing. What was it like doing that kind of gear shift to like you're, you know, doing huge festivals,

you're doing huge gigs, you're doing the Olympics, and then you're doing, you know, nappy changing? Do you know what? Great question. Thank you. I think it was a bit of a... That means a lot of the way. Yeah. that's really you're really about to think about that in his dark moments don't give that to rob no i won't

i won't say it again yeah you're waiting some of these questions coming your way you're gonna have work really hard not to say it excited excited it was a bit of a shock to the system to be fair like like i was saying before it was a conscious decision but i didn't quite know what i was getting myself into no actually to be honest and that's probably the whole premise of the podcast to say degree. So the actual reality of it, especially as an artist, and I think it's quite fair to say, maybe not every single artist is like this, but you're quite self-absorbed. It's all about you. It's all about your image. It's all about, you know, what you're doing for the day. People are telling you your schedule. People are running around after you. So it's now have to kind of transfer

that and then now have to kind of put yourself second. Yes. And then, you know, then the family comes first I'll be very honest which was one of the reasons why I wanted to come on this podcast it was a bit of like a baptism of fire for me it was like oh you've got to figure out how to do this because you're so programmed to think and act a certain type of way so at first I was of the mindset that like I don't want to change any nuffies like really yeah at first like I don't want to do this like yeah and but then I've now got to a place with the amount of children I have just by default where you know not like I enjoy it. Who enjoys changing nappies?

But actually, you know, that bonding time of like the bedtimes, the bath times, reading the stories, the changing them. You know, one of my kids might wake up in the middle of the night and then I'll just go and sleep in their bed. Actually, after a couple of years, I've kind of adjusted into it and it's the thing I look

forward to the most. I think that's totally the care. I think we've all it's quite a selfish job that we've all got. And it's very easy to, you know, by pursuing that, it is quite a doing this for myself kind of thing. Yeah, of course.

And it's a real gear shift. And I think it did take me quite a while to kind of put myself second in that way. What are you? I think it's a bit like, well, no, you know, your partner thing, well, I'll do that because you've got a gig or got to go to work tomorrow if your partner's at home.

But like, when you were at home not touring and not write music in the studio and stuff, like was it properly 50-50 of the parenting or? No, I think my missus was great in the sense that I think, you know, we've been together for a while, and she she kind of knows me and i think like i said i've definitely matured and it is very much now more 50-50 than it can be obviously with all of our jobs there'll be days when you have to travel and you know you'll be away for a week two weeks even a bit longer where you know it kind of tips but

for the most part when i'm around it's 50-50 yeah um so at the start though when she was saying she didn't you know you didn't want to do nappies and things like that like how did she take that and was it like a conversation between you both or was it you just slowly got into it was it? I think it was more my actions it wasn't me overtly saying it obviously I have a lot of respect for my partner so I wasn't I wasn't like arrogant about it

it was just more the way you know she's already doing it I'll let her do it yeah she's doing it I'll just leave her to do it but obviously now in hindsight I realize like we're both being affected by it it's a thankless job as well I mean I think maybe hopefully one day the kids will go, oh, thank you for everything that you did. But versus, you know, what we do on a day-to-day basis,

you're instantly kind of gratified, whether it's on social media, whether it's your, you know, paycheck that you receive. But this is like you're putting the same amount of effort into it, if not more, but it's thankless. And so I think for me, I kind of convinced myself that like, you know, it's, you know, because she's a mother and she had always been very maternal,

this was something that, you know, she would enjoy way more than I would. This is something she would naturally take to more than I would. But now I don't really think like that. Yeah, that's a good journey to go on. Yeah. I think it's great to be honest about that because I think there's a lot of, you know, people that would go from the off, I had this moment and I felt like this and my life changed.

I think it can be a much longer adaption to those things. And also, like, in different generations, it was only like, by my dad, he's got five kids. and then like for the first one he weren't even at the hospital he just stayed at the pub and that weren't even like he's being out of all it was like he was actually a little bit like no don't invade her space

leave her alone at the hospital so it's like within like 40 years you tried to push that one through with Lou didn't you no I wanted to be that I was actually in the delivery suite three days before seeing a few others come through yeah just to get a feel for it

you're a smart man you're just sort of there looking taking no filming but even that even that Even that, just being honest, I remember when we got to the hospital and we did that whole like lindo wing stuff and all that kind of stuff. So I remember we got there and then I brought all my duvets in and pillows and all this different stuff, shower gel. And I remember like the midwives being like, oh, bloody hell.

Like I've never seen like a man come here. So like basically, she was basically trying to say like so kind of focused on himself. Yeah. Like you pulled out all the stuff. You want to be as comfortable as possible. And so from the off, you kind of feel, well, I kind of felt. I can't, you know, imbue it on anyone else. But I kind of felt like, this is not about me.

This is, you know, about my partner and the child. And I'm kind of secondary in all of this. And then in all fairness as well, like the first couple of months, when the baby can't really talk or, you know, kind of let you know what they're thinking or feeling, you kind of feel, or I kind of felt a bit surplus to requirement. I was like, well, what do I really do here? You're making toast.

Yeah, they're one their mum, like they're drinking breast milk. Like, apart from the change in nappies beer and maybe going to see them in a night, there's not much that I can do anyway. So let me just get on with what I'm doing. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by you, Home of the Way Out, a brand new comedy escape room series. Hosted by Mel Gedroich, a group of comedians led by Ed Gamble and Ish Kumar, battle through fantastical worlds.

Clues are hidden in plain sight, assumptions are dangerous, and every mistake costs valuable time. Obviously, we've been on TV with Ed and Nish. We've been in green rooms with Ed and Nish. They're bloody well, don't get out of the green room, aren't they? They're not going to get out of the escape room. Am I right?

Yeah, bloody right. Do you like that kind of humour? I can see why you weren't booked on the comedy show. Josh, we're in a fantastical world. Can you stop wiggling your glasses doing puns? Sorry, Ronnie Corbett's not in this fantastical world. It's 226, mate. We're in a fantastical world.

Ed will do all right. Nish will panic. Yeah, Ed will laugh in a sort of, phone mate, Nish will get angry and shout. Perfect. Perfect casting. They both went to a posh, Durham, Duhn. Does that mean you're clever? Nish presents as more academically clever than Ed.

Do you know what though, Rob? There's only one way to find out. The Way Out features a stellar comedy cast including David O'Docty, Amy Annette, Chloe Pets, and Lou Sanders. Watch the Chaos Flow. The Way Out, stream for free on you. You're no longer young people. You're just people. And people

are either productive or dead weight. It's my first day of work and I need to a big impression. Were you just checking me out? No. It's too bad. I see at least 15 ladies I need to talk to before my beta block wears off. My coworkers don't take me seriously.

It's not a human. It's just a piece of meat. Someone bring a gurney. Your wife's an artist, right? Yes, she's an artist, yeah. So how did she adapt to that kind of thing? Has she taken time off as well? Or like, two of you are creative?

Creatives, yeah. So, because he's an artist. It's easy to go, I'm going to take time off. But if you're a creative, both of you, that presumably I've always created, wanted to create, have you been able to turn that off? Do you know what I mean? Or are you like thinking, oh, that's a good idea.

I'll come back to that in six years. Yeah, I think the beauty of being a creative is that, you know, you don't, you know, of course, like she's done loads of exhibitions and whatnot and loads of collaborations with different brands and whatnot. But you can kind of move at your own pace. really like, you know, you're not really contracted to kind of work with this like production company or TV network and have to be there at a certain time. So that's the luxury that we've always had. But again, kind of just like absolving myself of my sins. I think I also was like,

you're an artist and you kind of can do this in your own time and in your own pace. So I'm going to kind of prioritize what I need to do because, you know, technically artists really get recognized when they're 60. You've got a least. at least another, you know, 20, 30 years before anyone really, you know, like the value of the work starts to go. This is just me kind of telling myself this, by the way. So I was like delusional to a kind of completely different extent. But that was what I continued telling myself. Like, you're going to make art for the rest of your life.

And then as you get older, you know, kind of maybe Tracy Emmons style, then, you know, people are going to start to thing. And then the value is going to go up and whatever. So it doesn't really matter about what. what you're doing for now, it matters more so about me. I'm the one that's on the clock, do you know what I mean? I'm the one in the music industry, yeah, that can age out and that can this and that can that. But I think over the years, I've began to kind of appreciate that like we both have had to make sacrifices. And so, you know, we just have to respect one another's kind of passions

and ability to work. So there'll be now, you know, there's numerous days in the week where I'll be like, you know what, I'll take the backseat, I'll be at home, I'll do the school run, the pickup, up, I'll put the kids to bed, you go and do what you need to do. Because I think there is a pressure, a pressure in the music industry as well. Because if you're young and you're cool, and especially in like rap music and stuff like that, no one's really coming out and rapping about, yeah, I'm, you know, doing the school run and having kids ages you up so much. Yeah, yeah, it does.

And so it's like, it's almost like not encouraged to be spoken about. 100%. Or, you know, in interviews, because you've still got to maintain, though, I'm this cool guy that I want people to want to be like me. 100%. And not a let that side of it. out so there's that pressure to do that and was that part of why you sort of took a step back as well that you didn't know how to sort of keep yeah you may I don't know if it's because we're from a similar area but I feel like you've known me all my life yeah exactly

that I was confused after because I was like this is what I want to do and then I did it then I was like how do I move forward yeah what do I like okay this is in my mind I'm telling myself this is a young man's game like this is the narrative this is kind of what people talk about I'm not really operating in that space anymore. I'm in a different space in my life but then I guess thinking broadly you know you had loyal Kano who released his project recently and I think it was

I think he had his son on the artwork or his son did a bit of the artwork and I think he was talking a lot about fatherhood so at the same time you know music in the same way like you know TV film and everything else is always evolving and kind of developing and so I would say when I first started out rap was kind of niche and very kind of about a certain type of thing but from then till now it's so much more broader well loyal khaner's really kind of he's very open about his relationship with mom and his family and he's quite kind of emotionally wrought yeah in terms of

what he does is there have many of your peers I mean obviously he's a bit young I think but many of your peers had kids do you talk about it yeah so many of my peers have had kids and we talk about it. I don't know if I hear it so much in the music. Like, I know Skeptar did a thing where, and I think he had a video and then he had his pram in the video and stuff like that. And maybe there's some of it in his narrative.

But we tend to talk about it more because a lot of people won't know. But at this stage, you know, there's a few rappers out of the UK that have done really well. So, you know, sometimes there'll be like a barbecue or someone will have a party and then everyone comes around. And the other day I went to see Dizzy at the, what is it, the rugby.

And he was performing for, I think it was, there was Saracens versus Northampton. Yeah. And he did a big performance and his kids were there. And my daughter was there as well. I saw him at the Garden Center. Did you? Did he? Didsy rascal out for the day of his kids?

Yeah. Yeah. So, or one of my kids had a birthday party and then he brought his kids. And then Jamie brought his kids as well. And so I think. In the confines of our own kind of private lives, it's all going on. But in terms of like the narrative, and this is why I think it's great that we're talking about this, because I think it's actually progressive to start talking about it.

Because it's very relatable. And, you know, when I started versus where I am now in my life, as I said, I'm 37. A lot of my fan base would have grown up and will now have kids of their own. Yeah. So if I'm not sort of talking about it, then it's kind of like a... It's strained. It's inauthentic. It's inauthentic.

And with comedy, I find comedy and rap similar in a way where you're sort of... That's why you do both. Exactly. Even though I think comedy is way harder. I agree. What you do, no, I agree. What you do as a comedian is, in my opinion, the hardest thing to do in entertainment. No.

Well, it's hard to do it well, but it's quite easy to be shit out of it. Because if I see someone rapping, particularly if they're doing it improvised, I think, I can't even comprehend how you're. how you would start to do that. But am I right in saying that some comedy, obviously you'll probably have like a written kind of loose script, but then if someone heckles or if something happens on the night, some of it is improvised. And then remember you don't have the luxury

of having like a backing track or a live band. Rob does. He has a backing track. Robesh has a full DJ, didn't it? Not during the gig, though, only before. Oh, is it only before? But yeah, I think it's those elements removed that makes it all the more art. If it comes, you know, whatever comes naturally to you is easier,

whether other people determine it to look difficult or not. Fair, fair, fair. But I think with the comedy and rap is like, when you first start out, you've got this ability, whether it's a rap or be funny. And the best ones are themselves. In their music or in their jokes, you feel like you understand the persona, and it's them. There's that far in the belly.

And like you say, you've come from plays in South East London, where not many people get to the level and the success you're at now. And during that journey, you will change. It's impossible not to. so you can't come out at 37 and be that 18 year old kid from the estate because you're not living that life and it just looks forced,

it looks fake and it's too much where you have to take time and hopefully evolve with your act and who you are but it's hard to know how. You weren't drinking hot chocolate when you were 21 were you? I probably still was, you know?

Yeah. You just wasn't rapping about it. Yeah, just a bit of an old soul, you know. I like what I like. I'm a very simple man. So when you say you're talking, you're going to a barbecue and there's Dizzy Rask on Jamie and stuff.

Are you all like, like, this is a bit weird considering where we've come from. Or do you know that? There is a bit of that. But then it's also just life, isn't it? So it's just like... It becomes your normal. Yeah. And to be honest, and this is no disrespect to anyone. But if you've got to a certain age and you haven't done some of these things, you know, like some people have Peter Pan syndrome or some people are so engulfed in what they're doing

workwise. I'm focused on those people, not those people who actually can't do it. I think it's a bit strange. Do you got I mean? I think it's a little bit strange. So I think based on the ages that we are and all that's been accomplished, it was inevitable and it makes sense for us to be in that scenario. So it's not like, wow, like, oh my goodness, we've come from this and now we're here and we're with our children. It's more of a internal acknowledgement and kind of like gratitude for life and just being so fortunate because there's so many people that grew up around the same places we did that didn't have the same lot. Yeah. So I think it's that. And then every once in a while, yes, it will be a passing comment, but it's not like the norm. Yeah. Yeah. I've got two questions, which I think you're going to think are great. Okay. Let's see. One. What was it that tipped you over to go, fuck it. I'm definitely having this time off. I don't care what the consequences could be with, you know, not being relevant anymore, losing record deals, people not caring. And then how are you feeling now about potentially going back in? Now you've got this sort of, you know, you're rooted in with a kids, you've been there day and day out and had this time off to go off again with this new album and a new tour. How does it make you feel about that? There's a great question.

Thank you. Oh, shut out of your ass. Lovely, isn't it? Okay, so I got to a point where although on the, from the outside looking in, everything was going super well. I could do no wrong, you know, seven number one records, sold out the O2, sold out Wembley Arena, did Glastonbury, did our residency in Ibitha, first, you know, artists like myself to do it at a high level in Ibithar. But then personally, I felt very robotic. I felt like, and drained and exhausted.

I felt like I used to wake up every day and just constantly, even though it was my ultimate choice, but I felt like I was constantly being like, like someone was just dictating my day. Yeah, yeah, you're on a compare about it. Yeah. And then it's not like I wanted to like live the life that all my other like schoolmates were living or whatever. It wasn't necessarily that.

But I just felt like, you know, you can't just wake up and just do this every day. And then you kind of have like a false sense of reality and a false perception because not many people are living how you live. So your norm is not like when you're trying to have like a relatable conversation with your schoolmate. It's just going into the air because you're living completely different lives. like how much longer can I do this for especially when I'm in a place where I wouldn't say like not enjoying it is the right term but I just don't feel fulfilled

like I don't feel connected to it I don't feel yet as connected to it I feel like I'm a hamster on a hamster wheel and I'm reaping the benefits but so many other people that are attached to what I'm doing are also reaping the benefits and am I doing it for me am I doing it for them?

Am I doing it because I don't want to let them down? Like the fact that I was even thinking about all of that stuff for me was enough to be like, okay, mate, do you get what I mean? You found someone lovely, like just chill out, do some normal stuff, go on normal holidays where you're not just going from like airport to venue to sound check to doing the show, back to the hotel, back to the airport, like just take a break and just do some normal stuff. And you might hate it, you might love it, less.

see and then I think getting back to it now like one of the one of the thoughts or epiphanies I had is you know I've done all this cool stuff and I might have kids and they might not ever experience it it might just be a thing that happened in the past yeah yeah that was one of the that was one of the motivations there's there's so many more motivations like you know which we can go into yeah in in relation to like kids and being a parent that was one of the things like wow like I've done done all this cool stuff like yeah and my kids may never directly experience it it would just be something I told oh you know this venue here that we've gone

yeah you know dad's sold it out before like no I can't do that I'm not old I'm not 50 I'm not do I mean I need to apologize so that's 50 year olds listening yeah but you know what you're saying I'm trying to say yeah you know as you were saying as a rapper you know aging out and all this kind of I was like no man like there's rappers that are as successful not more successful than me that are older than me, like much older than me. So why stop?

And then I looked at my monthly listeners and at the time I was on 4 million or something like that. But now we're like at 6.7 or something again. But I was like, rah, like I've still got like millions of monthly listeners. People that are just listening to all my back catalog, I kind of owe it to my kids and I owe it to these amazing fans to kind of get back into the mix. And so the other day when we did the sidemen show,

I was able to bring my kids along and they were able to kind of watch it and some of my nephews and nieces and whatnot. And they were able to watch it and like I don't know what it's going to do to them like because they're still at ages where they can't totally like explain or articulate how they felt or what it means to them. But I'm so glad that like I made that conscious decision and that I had that thought because being motivated by your family and by your children, I would say is one of the one of the most powerful forms. motivation, like wanting to do things for them. And also, if I'm just being totally honest, I think whether or not I came back to music, they would have been fine anyway. But knowing, you know, us, especially us to growing up

in a similar way, knowing that through the success of like, you know, music and the arts, I've been able to create social mobility for my immediate family and open doors that would have never been open to us before. Like, I want to be able to do the same. same thing for my kids. Like I know that I can pick up the phone to across any sector, TV, film, film might be a bit harder.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. TV, TV, podcasts. Yeah, definitely podcast. Fashion, music and say, oh, you know, my kid wants to come and do like a work experience thing here where they want to come and see how this works or and the doors would be open. And like I said, I think I would have still been able to do that had I not returned. but I think returning makes it a bit more easier. Yeah, yeah.

Like, he's still in the mix. Like, you know, we might need to return the favour. And also, between one and five children, holidays aren't cheap. They're not, yeah, they're not cheap. That's also the other thing. Yeah, man, you need to keep going because, yeah, life has its costs and expenses and the lifestyle you're living as a kind of single man or a man with a missus,

just kind of going on holidays and staying five, 10 days or whatever. when you've got kids, it's a completely different thing. Yeah. What are your plans musically then for this year? Like, how do you mastermind a comeback like that? Wow. So a lot of it is trial and error. I think it fundamentally starts with having what you believe is a very good product,

which I would say over the last year or two years I've been working on in the background. So once we set up the studio, which was three years ago, I remember us building it. I was doing all the extension program. So I was in my kind of like DIY kind of mindset. So I was like we've spent a shit ton of money on the studio. I'm not going to pay some like, you know, studio type interior designer to come and do it.

We are capable. We'll do it ourselves. So we're doing all the DIY, sanding the floors, painting the walls. My engineer slash really good friend Richie is way more capable of DIY than I am. So he was picking up the lion's share. I was kind of his assistant. And then shortly after that, artist started coming through the door. as they say, you know, build it and they will come.

So artists started coming through the door. We started getting traction. And I started hearing all these like bangers coming out of all these rooms while I was like painting walls and doing all this stuff. And I was like, wait, hang on, I've been tricked. Like this is mental. Like I need to be in there doing what they're doing. Do you got I mean?

Because I can still do it. So slowly but surely came up with what I believe was a very good product. Initially, I wanted to talk about family. And there is a tinge of it in there. And I wanted to talk about, you know, what my life was then, like them versus what my life was like now. But then I personally felt like, again, going back to that mindset of thinking like the whole world revolves around you and whatever.

I thought it was a bit too indulgent. And then there was a little bit of a train of thought of what you were talking about, Rob, when you were saying, like, who wants to hear that? Do you got what I mean? Like, that's not really the narrative of rap. That's not what you want out of rap. So there was a bit of that. I think my next project will be more like that.

But this one, I found that I was making more dance-leaning music. And I felt like I was kind of a bit perturbed by the idea that we've lost like a thousand nightclubs in the UK since the pandemic. And we're losing three nightclubs a month. And they're saying that by 2029, there'll be hardly any left. And so I was thinking of it as, okay, when I was 16, 17, 18, making my tunes, where these were the spaces where I would go and test out my records. These were the spaces where sometimes I'd do it for free, sometimes I'd do it for a couple of hundred quid,

sometimes I'd get booed, sometimes there'd be 12 people there. Do you know what I mean? But it gave me the thick skin that I've got now. It allowed me to accumulate my 10,000 hours. And if we lose these kind of physical spaces where, you know, people of all different races, backgrounds, ages are allowed to converge and enjoy music and be in this flow state and let loose,

granted everything is digital now and so arguably you can still do the same thing and arguably get even more reach. But how are we going to be able to create artists that maintain longevity? Because what I'm seeing now is artists that make a huge splash across social media and then come with one or two records.

But then because they haven't necessarily built like a core fan base so they don't have other experience in other areas of the industry, you know, communicating well, performing well, stage presence, etc. Dealing with rejection and this and that and that. It tends to be not all the time, but in my opinion, seven, eight times out of ten, it tends to be short-lived. So I was like, we need to preserve these spaces,

and I kind of want to highlight that in my music. And so I crafted this kind of dance-leaning project where I'm celebrating all the dance genres that I've heard from basically when I was a lad to where I'm at now, whether it be, you know, Grime, DobStep, Tech House, Drum and Bass, all of those kind of sonics. And then I've basically sort of conceptualized it where it's like a theme of like a crazy night out.

So, you know, you're getting ready, you're texting your mates, you're working out where you want to go, you get to the first bit, it's a pre-drinks or a meal situation, then you end up at the first thing, it's either a gig or it's a big club night, then you end up at the after party, then you end up somewhere else, and then it's, you know, the sun's coming out and you're like, what the hell has happened or not? And also I think that, you know, over the last couple of years,

going out and a nighttime kind of culture has started to have like a negative, there's negative connotations around it. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's not great for the society. It's just people having a piss up and leads to all of this other kind of, anti-social behavior but like the arts in the UK is one of our biggest exports

it's like a huge soft power of ours and some of these venues are iconic venues and they're going rapidly like I saw that in Germany Berlin specifically they got UNESCO to come and kind of put this, give this special title to their techno scene

like make it like a protected sort of heritage place of influence or something I can't remember the exact term, but in my mind, I was like, the UK, for all the bands and DJs and acts that we've had come out of all of these little pockets of Bristol or Devon or London or Manchester or whatever, we should be preserving it and protecting it in the same way. This is a mad thing about the UK is you go, it's the thing we do the best in the world. Trust me.

From literally, from the Beatles, it's just the biggest band ever. Ever, yeah. Like the money they will have brought into the UK is insane. 100% All the way through and it's still going. Like Elton John and Ed Shearer and now like different ages,

smashing it. Or like Adele or like Harry Styles. Whenever we do it, we punch so much bigger than our weight. From such a small island. Yeah, it's insane. It's like, it's not celebrated enough. No at all.

And if you're not in that sort of 5% of artists that you've named, Yeah. The reality is you're earning the majority of your income from live, from live performance. And so if we lose all these venues and you have nowhere to play. So lives where it's at for money now, really, is it? Yeah, lives where it's out for money. And you're killing the spaces where people can earn a living.

So it's just a bit shit, mate. So I was like, you know what? This feels like something that I'm passionate about. This feels like a message I can convey. It's definitely been a part of my come up. Some of my biggest records, Miami to our beef, I was Swedish House. Mafia, drinking from the bottle with Calvin Harris, have been dance leaning records. Like, let me just do this.

So that's kind of where I'm at now. And what's your kids think about your music? Great question. They think I'm the best artist ever. They think I'm the best artist ever. I think they want to, I think really one of my daughters wants to say that Justin Bieber is the best. Right, right. But you won't let her.

But no, it's not that I won't let her. I think she just feels bad. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Because she always goes, oh, you know, first is you. it's Justin Bieber but I can see the look in her eyes. She's like, so if you're in the car and you're driving them along,

and you say to them, what should we listen to? Would they say Tony Samper? They say, Daddy, play Wonder Man. Play Wonder Man. Play Wonder Man. So Wonder Man is their go-to track. And they watched a video, and I did that video years ago with Ellie Golden, and we I forgot the film

that we referenced, but it was one of these films from back in the day about this Bionic Man. I think it was the Bionic Man. There you go. So there's lots of like special effects. Oh, I'm going to ruin the illusion for them now. But there's loads of special effects where I'm jumping out of helicopters. Oh, so they like watching all that.

Yeah. So they're watching and they're like, Daddy, is this real? Yeah. Did you really do that? I'm a superhero. I'm like, yes. Yes, I am. Music videos don't really happen anymore now.

But you think it's mad because more it's just people sing like a couple of lines from a song in a TikTok. Yeah. More so than the full video. 100%. It feels like there's a massive, I don't know, because I... Does it feel like a different industry? that you're coming back into. It feels like a different industry, yes, entirely pretty much.

I'm fortunate because, again, during my hiatus, I also set up a publishing company. So we, like, a lot of people... It's the busiest hiatus anyone's ever had. I know, but I'm just like, I can't be idle. The devil makes work of an idle hand. So I can't be idle. Like, I have to do stuff.

But in that interim period, we ended up producing tracks for Drake. Like, one of our producers made passion fruit for Drake, which is Drake's, like, third biggest song ever. So from out the gate, like we were already doing really well. Chris Brown, Sean Paul. We've got a Drake and Michael Jackson cart. Like, we've done quite a lot of stuff. So with both of my hats on, like almost like an exec and then a frontman artist,

the industry is not 100% different. But if you're an artist that's trying to break through now, it's a completely different time. It's entirely saturated. before we had a different type of gatekeeper, like a more traditional gatekeeper, which I don't necessarily agree with. But I think what was interesting about the time is to cut through, you felt like, you know,

the old guard had to acknowledge you the fact that you were talented. And therefore, because you were talented, and this is just my opinion, no disrespect to anyone. But because they believed you were talented, then you would now get these opportunities where by now I think it's a mix of a bit of a popularity contest, you know, who's the most popular,

who's getting the most engagement, regardless of like the quality of the actual product. Is it more about how do I sell this now than it is about the product? Yeah, I think so. I think your product doesn't necessarily have to be great, but if you're a great marketeer and you have a great engaged fan base, you could be maybe not operating at the same scale of the Beatles, but in theory you could be selling out some of the same venues.

We've got a bit of a fan base from this. What do you reckon the chance to me and Josh bringing out a swing album together? Why not? Do you like, can I'll wrap pack up in a meeting? Yeah, why not? I can tell you why not. It'd be shit. It'd be shit, man, boy, you've got the fan base.

This is the point. That is it? This is the point. And the thing is in Britain, we love the, like, novelty records. No, no, no. A bit serious one. Oh. Okay.

Maybe it's funny that is a comedy. Maybe you could roll it out as a novelty thing. You know, Mr. Bojangles, you know, my way. Me and Mr Jones. You singing my way in a full tuxedo on a stage, black and white, shot. Brilliant. Okay, yeah.

What I will say about what you're saying. Do you want to chip in a bit of money on the old angel accomplishment? I think I'll leave that one. Okay. I think I'll leave that one. Too many misses already? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too busy with Drake, are you?

No, that's not even that. It's not even that. Honestly, Rob. But what I will say about what you're saying is that that is what is exciting about where the industry is at now. Like if you've been able to get yourself to a certain point, you can literally do anything and you can just have fun. And so I think where I'm at now, I'm not trying to,

I'm doing it because I love it more than anything else. It's the thing that I wake up and I can do like you're saying about comedy very naturally. And, you know, Picasso or whoever, they never stopped making paintings. They didn't get to a point where they were like, oh, you know, I've done 78 now. Just keep going. But the fact that like, you know, you can just kind of, do whatever you want. As long as it makes you feel good,

the barrier to entry is kind of so low now. It's super easy to upload a record onto one of these streaming platforms as opposed to before where you had to press up the CDs and the finals. And obviously some people still do that. But yeah, it's the greatest time to be a creative. I think it's just the hardest time to cut through the noise.

Yeah. And what about your kids? Would you feel excited or would you feel like, oh no, if they went into music? Or I suppose art. I think if my, I would prefer, and I don't, you know, want to sound like one of those parents, but I think it would bring me more joy if my kids went more down their mother's route of like,

we want to just make art and like, you know, we want to kind of exist in that space. Yeah. I think, I think, I think being an art, a musician, I think comes with too many superficial pressures. It's very, look at me, look at me. It's very, yeah. For the most part, obviously there's artists that you've never seen their face. before or whatever you know but I think for the most part it is about image it is about you know not how much you weigh per se but you know do you look good you're

getting all this direct critique on your comments or you've got a spot here you know if you put on weight have you it feels like you have to have super thick skin to be able to kind of survive and navigate that and I I did it because obviously I felt like I had the talent to be able to do it and compete in that space but I also did it because I was shit at football and I was like, I was like, this is probably one of the only things from where I've come from that could change the whole trajectory of my entire family's life.

And luckily, we've been able to do that. But I think where my kids don't have those same sort of pressures. Yeah. Well, that's the interesting thing. Your kids are entering a completely different world in terms of their own families and where they're growing up to what you did. you did and how how comfortable are you with that like or is there part of you that's going you don't

understand yeah um yeah there's there's a part of me that feels like you don't understand but i think ultimately you know once you have kids and i think i can kind of speak for everyone here you kind of just want them to be safe and you kind of just want them to be happy and i think the fact that there's a part of me that's like yeah i definitely want you to prove yourself and you know you've got our DNA and so you've got to be able to just drop them plums did common Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've taken them there once in a while. Have you taken them?

Yeah, of course I have. Yeah, of course. They're like, this is shit. Take me back to the suburbs. Take me back to the pool in the garden. But I think, I think that ultimately I just want them to be like happy and safe. And so whatever brings them the most joy and makes them feel the most fulfilled, I would encourage them to do that.

Of course, you know, they've watched K-pop demon hunters. And now they wanted some. what be artists and they want to do things like that. But I think I will just try to ensure that I'm kind of around it as much as possible. Not like a Michael Jackson's dad or like Destiny's Child, you know, Beyonce's dad, but just kind of like someone that's in their ear and someone that's kind of observing their surroundings and trying to kind of protect to a certain degree from afar.

Would you be more if they went, I want to be a dentist and a lawyer, would there be part of you that goes oh that's a relief I think so yeah I think so yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah like stay well away from this we all know that

we all know the highs and loads of entertainment I'm sure we've all been there when the agent isn't calling and it's a dance with the devil yeah it's a dance with the devil man we're all super fortunate and blessed to be sitting in this building having this conversation right now

with all the years that we've put into this thing how do you feel about returning to live performance because I think that's the one of the hardest things to get your confidence back into because it's a lot of you know a lot of rust when you've not done it for a little or how you're feeling about going back into that? For me it's the absolute opposite. Really? Yeah, live the live element of it is the bit that I love the most which again is why I feel this project is apt because I feel like my music has been kind of well received but I think until you see me live you don't you've not experienced

you've not had the full experience. Yeah my life performance is off the chain like I will say that with confidence with my chest so getting back to it like Like we went on tour in Australia last year. It was the most random lineup, by the way. It was like me, Pitbull, Mariah Carey, Wiz Khalifa, Little Jo. It's a bit of like a throwback thing, but it's the most random. I hardly saw her.

Hardly saw her. Hardly saw her. I saw her performances, but hardly saw that. He's smashing it now and he pit bull. Pit bull. Pit bull. Especially in the UK with everyone dressing up with a hat. I will be honest and say he had by far the most fans.

Like I've never seen. Like the. share of the crowd was people in board caps and like suits and all this kind of stuff. We've actually got a show and had part this summer as well. Oh yeah, he's coming up yeah. BST, yeah. But yeah, I got so when I did this thing in Australia I think it was like November or whatever. Like the love was ridiculous. Like it was we made like the national news there.

It was insane and it was just like for me, oh you've still got it man. Like there was there was not an ounce of fear or doubt before I stepped on the to that stage that I wouldn't be able to do what I have done in the past. And if anything, it makes me want to perform more because I feel like the more that people are able to kind of see that, whether it's like online, even the sideman show that I did the other day, like it was ridiculous. Like the halftime show went so well. And what's crazy about their fan bases?

They've got, you know, a lot of the youth. So they've even got like the 13, 14, 15 year olds. And the craziest thing happened where half, I would say 60% of, you know, of the people in their chat because it was a live stream was like, who the hell is this guy? Who is this guy? Who did they bring to do the hop-thagrant?

Who's this old dad? Who's this old dad? And then what was amazing that happened is then, you know, after about 30 minutes, it swayed, it kind of went back to 50-50 and then to like 40, 60-40 in my favour. Like, you don't know who this guy is? Are you crazy?

Like, this guy's a legend. He's done this and that and that. Like, when they see the guy, oh, we can do it. Exactly. To them, you're brand new, but you've got 20 years of experience of performing that, you know. There you go. So I think in short, all I'm basically saying is that, like, didn't have any worries there. And in fact, I think that's going to be one of the things that kind of is, like, kind of tips it for me, to be fair.

I want to talk to you about mindset there, right? Because I think if you, the difference between a rapper approaching that and a comedian, if that had happened to rock, and he told me the story, he'd be like, oh, it was awful. I was so stressed and I did it. I think it was fine. I thought, I think I got away with it, but the first bit was just tragic

and everyone was saying, who the fuck's this old prick? I did a David Dickinson reference and they're on 13. Yeah, like, who? If I'd done that tour of Australia and I thought it'd gone well and Rob asked me, I go, yeah, it's fine.

Yeah, it was fine. But the thing is, with a song, a song always were. If it was a hit once, it's always a hit forever. that's it my friends with the joke it's a lot of it is the time and of when you're saying that's the answer to if you had a gig last night yeah even if you thought you smashed it and i came in and i said how was the gig last night you wouldn't go i was brilliant no but it's hard to be brilliant just talking at a room it's like you know like if you've got like in a stadium and you've got your because that's what

you said you've got the music behind you and that i think comedy's a massive head fuck because if it goes wrong it's all on you where you could fluff a line but he could get covered. It's not the end of the world. And there's a lot of noise everywhere. It's just that it's the silence of nothing when you say a joke that don't work that kills you. I'm trying to remember what that's happened before.

I think maybe for you guys, maybe the kind of deciding factor might be a standard ovation, maybe. Is that what you would, how you'd measure it? One day. Yeah. It will soon come. Also as well, though, you are,

and I think you've made the right decision where you're coming into this with an appreciation because you haven't had it for five, six, seven years. Where when you're doing it every night, it becomes your normal, which is mad. Our normal is, you know, you're on this talk at the moment, Josh. Every night you go out to thousands of people, make them laugh for an hour and a half,

and then they have a big cheer, Sanivation, and then you go home. That is mental. Yeah, it's mental. But then we have a break from it. Exactly. But then so having that time and that break is so important to be appreciative. Whatever is you're doing, you know? 100%.

It made me way more grateful for everything. Like yesterday I got a second stripe on my. my purple belt for jihitsu and I put out a little post on my stories which was like this you know this season of my life I'm appreciating all the winds big or small it doesn't matter how big or small just because like going back to the kids once you see the miracle of like childbirth and like that now becomes the most important thing in your life for me all I care about is their health and their happiness in in their life I just want them to be happy healthy and I want them to be loved and I want them to have peace of mind anything that happens.

happens for me on top of that is a win. Yeah. Could be anything. Oh, you've been invited by this company to go on a holiday. I would never take it. But I would be like, oh, this is a nice off. I'm really grateful. Wow.

Oh no, especially, you know. Yeah, so I'm just in a suit, like in this lovely, amazing space of like, almost Zen space of just gratitude. And like I'm not necessarily chasing anything. Like I said, we have our own studios. Gone out of the days where I've, because again, I had so much anxiety of like knowing that I was on the clock on someone else's like budget.

Yeah. Do you know, on my budget, but that they were taken from like, you know, my future earnings. And, you know, you had that A&R standing there, you know, hoping that by the end of the session you would have produced a hit. I can just walk into my studio now, see some of the best artists in the UK occupying some of the other rooms, take off my shoes, be there for the entire day. And if something good comes out of it, it's great. If not, I'll come back tomorrow and try again.

Did you know? Yeah. Did you do any therapy in your time off? Or is this all your own thing? No, I did. And would that be sitting down talking to a therapist? At the time, because it was like pandemic times, a lot of it was Zooms. Ah, okay, yeah.

And that's really helped. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think therapy is good because, again, what we do, of course, as a community of us, but it's quite a lonely. Yeah. Do you kind of agree with that? Lonely in the job, but also lonely in your journey.

Yeah, it's quite a lonely journey. You show me someone else that come from where you come from, living the same life you've got it's kind of yeah it's kind of lonely like one of my best friends is like or best friends from school is in prison for life like like english lad like he's in prison for life and we speak on the phone uh you know once a week on a sunday we get on the phone and again it's that same thing like wow like i saw oh you did dragons then because obviously he's watching the tv oh so he did dragons then i saw your performance on graham norton oh this is so sick and like It's such an emotional, like, time in my week.

Yeah, because I'm like, oh, bro, like, he was even around from passout. Like, he ended up going to prison just after passout. I remember I met him in Newcastle. He came to see, like, almost like the official launch party. Then after that, he was gone. So we talk on the phone, and I'm just, like you said, there's a kind of survivor's guilt there where it's like, oh, wow. Like, I just, yeah, I can't believe that I'm,

everything I'm telling you is, like, stuff that you would have never imagined. and you're kind of where you are and you're not able to experience this or kind of do it for yourself. So I think therapy was great because, yeah, it's super lonely in the journey and we're very fortunate and privileged in various different ways.

Very lucky. But it's nice to kind of just express yourself to someone who, they probably are judgmental. But no, judgmental. They probably are super judgmental. But yeah, they're probably the worst. They're probably talking to someone who's worse than me as well.

Yeah, exactly. I like that. I'm not going to be the worst conversation I've had this day. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Depends on the week. Did you guys do therapy as well? Yeah. Yeah, it's really helpful.

It's really good. What motivated you to do it? Oh, I was in a dark place because I hadn't decided to take seven years off. So I was everything that you were trying to avoid. Burned out, totally lost in it, completely hyped. by the whole thing. Yeah. Couldn't get out of the mindset of it all.

But I would never have been able to take that time off. I was not in a place where I... Then I find that very impressive. That's such a big... Yeah, I put too much of my worth still now, probably, in work. Yeah, which is... Not like I did then. So...

Not at all like I did then. Yeah. But then it was out of control. Yeah, because... But, you know, with what you're saying, there's a point where it starts to define you and then your value kind of is direct. associated in that and I was very worried because this thing is so up and down so

if all of a sudden you're not doing venues to thousands of people yeah so then what does that mean what does that mean by who you are I just trying to keep this going to avoid this pain yeah I guess that's the question isn't it maybe I need to be in a position where this is going to happen and I actually am not putting my whole worth of this yeah and then you have to I'm not telling you what you have to do but I think for me I realize that I have value as Patrick. Like I'm just I'm a person. I'm a man. I'm a I'm a son. I'm a father. I'm a brother. Do you get what I mean? I'm a friend to so many different people.

Whether I'm this like high-fly musician or not. And to kind of get back to that kind of essence of who you were originally, I think is a very important thing man. I think you need a comedy name. So because of these Patrick, but tiny temper. And then at least you've got a little bit of differentiation that today I'm going on is Josh. So there's Josh. Yeah. But there's not Josh. Yeah, yeah.

I think it's too late to rebrand. It's never too late. It's never too late. It's never too late. Trust me. Final question, Tani. We always ask this to everyone. Patrick.

Patrick. What's the one thing your partner does as a mother that you think that's amazing? I'm so lucky to have kids with you. And what's the one thing she does? It's slightly annoying. And if she was to listen now, she'd go, he's got a fair point. Yeah. I will start by saying,

She is very intentional with them. She kind of listens to everything that they say. She wants to know everything that happened at school, like down to every last detail, which I think is absolutely amazing because for a long time I did not have the capacity for that. I mean, what happened? What did your friends say?

What happened? What did the teacher say? This and that and that amazing. I like the fact that she also will just make stuff with them, like create with them, draw. Like let's just draw, let's just play with Play-Doh. just, oh, what did you make today? Let's do that.

I think that's incredible. And then the thing that I'm a little bit perturbed about is that she gives them lots of chocolate and sweets in the mornings. Yeah, yeah. In the mornings. So I'm sure she will hear that and be like, that's a fair point. I'll never be able to get my head around it. It's hard to defend chocolate to kids in the morning.

Yeah, fair. Well, good. I'm glad I've got, you know, for blackout. When you're brewing a hot chocolate in the other part of the kitchen. Do you know what? I usually have my hot chocolates in the evening. Oh. Oh, not afraid of the sugar before bed.

You know what I should probably be, but as I said, I don't have sugar in anything else, pretty much, apart from natural sugars. Like if I ever have tea, don't put sugar in the tea, don't have too many desserts. So this is the one thing. Tiny, absolute pleasure. Been a joy.

Any live shows that can go and see as well? Yeah, I mean, come and see me at BST, come and see me at Boardmasters. If you're up north, because I'm sure you have loads of Northern fans. Absolutely, yeah. Come and see me. I think we're doing a BST in Leeds or something,

so come and see me there. And then I will be doing my own tour back end of the year. I think we're going to be touring again in November. Wicked. Can't see me on the socials and they'll find out. Yeah, exactly. Just hit me up.

Come and fire me, man. I'm here.