Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S13 EP26: Matt Willis

Episode Date: October 16, 2026

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the musician Matt Willis. Matt's new book Mending: Busted, Burnout, and Getting Better  is available online and at books shops now. Parenting Hell is available to watch on Spotify every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xxx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  (Copyright 2026) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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at 2.cote.com. UK. Atoll and Abta protected. Hello, this is Parentin Hell with... Coder. Can you say... Rob. Rob.

Great. And Beckett. Back it. Can you say... Josh. Dos. Does. Can you say Widdickham?

Vinkir. O'A. Doss Vincum. Well done. Doss Vincum. Doss Vincum. Hello, you fabulous humans. Here's my two-year, two-month-old.

Coda. K-O-D-A. K-O-D-A. Saying your names. The classic bath time recording and a classic late submission as he's now almost four. Saw you both on recent tours.

Thank you so much for giving me and my husband a brilliant night out without the kiddies. Have a lovely day. April 2 tired to calculate my age months. Nathan approaching the big photo. Coda and as discussed, Joni, 10 months. Coder and Joni. Coda and Joni. I heard Coda before. I heard it like it. Don't mind it.

Yeah. So, Matt Willis. Oh, now, can I say something about Matt Willis? He went on Kenneth Williams. Oh, in my head, he was a bit like the email he wanted busted, bit like sort of skinny, like black hair sort of dragged across. Now he's like, excuse me, have you got a motorbike? Yeah. He's blocked. He's really, he was already attractive, then he had a glow-up, which is not fair, actually.

Yeah, because we've had slight glow-ups, but the bar was really low. Yeah, well, right, yeah. No, but you're not me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know. Yeah. I still think we need to be funny to get female attention, not just that body's. If it was a limbo bar, right? A limbo bar.

You know, a limbo bar. That's a great idea for a business. What? Limbo bar. You're only allowed in if you can limbo. And then when you're in there, it's a... Yeah, there's more limbo. More difficult to get out because you're pissed.

Yeah, easier to get out. Our limbo bar of our level was undoably low. And now it's still you can get under our limbo bar. But Matt Willis, his limbo bar was high. He's a really sexy guy. I mean, what a couple in terms of looks. Emma's unbelievable. I mean, insane.

They're so attractive. So, we're going to discuss. Do you want to discuss golf with him? Oh, yeah, he's really into his golf. I want to discuss. But probably his kids as well. His kids who are teenagers because they're teenagers. Obviously, busted a back and bigger than ever, his book and general stuff.

Yeah, we'll talk about the kit, obviously, being a parent. Yeah. And are you going to ask him about getting ripped? No, I think that ship's hell for me. I'm just going to accept that I'm going to have tits and be happy. Matt Willis. Matt Willis, hello. Hi.

How are you? Are we in? We are in. We are in. We are in. We are in. We are in. We should be honest.

We did the intro, and we talked about how good looking you are. Really? Yeah. Do you want to be defined by being so sexy? Because I feel like you've had a glow-up starting at a high level to a, you know, to a stratospheric level. You're going red? I said to Josh. Look, man, I said to Josh, because I'm going red.

I'm not gay, but I think you'd be top of the list if I had a go. When you are on stage in Busted, you look, and that's hard to look sexy and busted. It's not easy. You are like, wow. I'm next to James most of the time, so it's easy. Yeah. Scoot away from Charlie. My mic's as far away from Charlie's and closest to Jane as I can.

But yeah, no, I don't know. Yeah, but all right. You look good. You're exercising, even fit and healthy. Yeah, mate. I love it. I love it all. Oh, brilliant.

Well, I spent quite a few years of kind of like looking like shit, you know, and looking terrible. And I was like, what's going on? You know, so I find, right, you've got to pay attention to things and kind of look after yourself and do all that stuff. Yeah. You know. How long do you do in the gym?

a week? I do about four or five hours. Right. So you do have to actually put effort in. Well, at the moment, yeah, well, at the moment I'm doing that, but there's been times when it's like three, three times a week, it's enough, I think. But at the moment, I'm doing like four or five. Music on? Now it's a podcast on.

What podcast? What podcast? I listen to all kinds of things. I mean, I love the rest is politics. You get a pump on to nothing like working out to fucking Alistair Campbell. Nothing like it. Nothing like, believe me. Really gets the anger. He really gets some blood pumping, yeah, for some reason. So I listen to that, I listen to various podcasts.

Music's a big thing, though. I listen to, I mean, I always go back to rage against the machine. It's the best music to work out to, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can see that. It's the best music to work out to. If I ever go to the gym and have, like, like, heavy metal or, like, hardcore rap stuff, it's, like, upbeat and it, I feel like I basically get too overexcited and just exhaust myself after about 10 minutes.

Well, I had to stop listen to music when I drive. Did you? Because I, now I'm... luckily on zero points. But for a while, I was on nine. Oh, that is a scary line. It was a scary time. So I had to literally just set it on like,

like my speed over a certain thing and not be able to go over it. I was terrified for like probably about two years. Because I'm on six, or no, I'm on three now, but I was on six points and I was terrified because the 20 mile an hour zone in London is a death trap.

I'm trying to, I'm trying to do it. That's right. It's a 20 mile hour. Yeah, good stuff actually. Yeah. So I've been using that the cruise control thing, but then people behind you like, and beeping. I'm not, I need a sticker that says, I want six points. I'm on six points.

You need that stick on the back of your car. I'm not pussy. I'm on six points. They should sell those stickers. You should start sending them. Please don't beep them on nine. Please don't beep them on nine points. Yeah, so I had to stop listen to music because I drove too fast and got carried away. My dad once, did he hit some or he hit a hedge or something? Yeah. And he said to me, I think it's out. So it's fine.

You know, he said, don't tell your mum, but I was listening to the Rolling Stones really loud. That's why you hit a hedge. That's why you hit a hedge. I think you might have

another car. Anyway, it was all fine now. Right, okay. So it does work. It does work, yeah. So no more music in the cast. And that's just podcast and audio books.

That's good. That's good. So talk to me. You've got three kids. I have three kids, yeah. I've met your kids. Have you met all of them?

No. Right, not Trixie yet, no. The ones that are old enough to come to strictly. Absolutely, yeah. How old are they the kids? Isabel's 17 and Ace is 14, almost 15, and Trixie's 10.

Right, and so what age do you have to be to go straightly? Well, I think they say over 12. 14. 14. 14, right, okay. But they've got like some kind of kids stay. We can come watch you rehearse this week. Is that this week?

So Trixie's going in. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's very excited. Do the family come to Busted? They do. They do. They've come a lot. Have they?

Yeah. Do you like that, or does it stress you out? I know, I like it. I like it. time like they still kind of kind of get involved because we've got like multiple different places they can be if they want to chill one they can kind of be in the stands on seats and if they want to go mad they can come down we've got like this little pit at the front oh nice so i like seeing them in there and they jump around have a good time oh that's nice have you seen the oasis film

no not yet his kids are like uh it's both of their kids isn't it yeah yeah are on the tour and they've got an incredible kind of experience to see their dads up there because they never got to see it one of the best gap year of all time yeah oh what so Because they wouldn't have seen it the first. They didn't see her aces the first time. They didn't even met until the tour. Really? The cousins.

Yeah. The cousins hadn't met? No. Really? Yeah. That's fucking nuts, isn't it? It's weird, isn't it? Yeah, that's weird.

So, do you've, have kids, busted? Me and Charlie have kids. Charlie's got two boys. James doesn't, James is very much a child himself. In the best way. I love him. But do you, I sometimes get slightly frustrated. Like, Michael hasn't got children.

Do you mind me saying that, Michael? No, it's Michael. There's Michael. There's Michael behind a curtain. He doesn't like showing his face. I think the tax reasons. And sometimes... I see a picture of him occasionally on this podcast.

You've got a very vainy bice. Yeah, the biceps skin vainier each episode. It's a very vey bicep. Tight t-shirt, veney bicep. He's really enjoying the edit. But it's not real. Oh, there he is. Look at him.

He should show your face. Oh, really? It's a running joke and I'm just waiting for someone to go. My goodness has spited it. Yeah, I spied it. That's right in it. So that's not actually Michael's body. That's a fake body.

He's increasing the bicep vein on it. Each episode to see if anyone notices. And Matt Willis got it first. Yeah, you were in a car. So Michael, sometimes we were supposed to be recorded at 9 o'clock. And he said a message going, oh, I slept through my alarm. You know, can we push it back 15 minutes? And I'm just like, I've not slept beyond 9 a.m.

Yeah. With kids in my house for what feels like 10 years. But he slept past 9 a.m. Yeah. Really? Yeah. How old is he? It's 42.

No, he's older than that. You're old than that? 46. 46. You're 46 and you're sleeping past 9 a.m. Jesus. I mean, and there must be the same for James. I know.

Yeah. They seem happier. Same for James. Yeah. Like, literally, we'll, like, we, he lives in L.A., right? And so we go to, we do much of our recording out there. And we'll go, we'll set up studios and we'll kind of be in the studio and it'll be 12. And it'll be 12.

And he's still not here. I'm like, what are you doing? He just slept in. Oh, my God. Like, mate. What a life. Is it a waste of a life or are we wasting our lives by being awake too much? I don't know, I don't know.

But also, then he wants to go really late. So he gets to like 10pm and he wants to carry on. I'm like, mate. Oh, that's mental. Not a chance. See you later. I'm out of creative ideas by a quarter past four. Exactly.

I'm done. It's terrible for your tour. Oh, awful. What time you've got to stage? I'll absolutely rip it on the M1. Me, the tour manager's bent over. I've got so many points. Yeah.

Put your foot down, mate. I'm running out of stuff in. So your kids are of an age though now where they're kind of self-policing to an extent. In a way, yeah, yeah. I think that's that, do you know what? Like they always talk about how like when they get a school it's really difficult and all these kind of periods that you'll get to in parenting, which are hard. I find this the hardest.

Do you? Yeah, I find that's a what I find, I find Isabel at 17 the most difficult part. And not for emotionally or? Because she's more difficult. She's awesome. You know, but I find that, like, she's her own thing and doing her own stuff.

She's got a boyfriend. She goes out with him, you know, and like she goes to school, miles, she goes to college now. She gets to train even more. She disappears all day.

And, like, she started driving. She started driving. She started driving lessons. Right. Might have to show this. The other day, she had her first driving lesson.

Yeah. And I thought, where is she? Like, what she doing? And have you got this truckers on each? Have you got life 360? No.

My friends that have got older kids have got this. This feels like our next step. You'll definitely get it. It's amazing. So Live 360 is a tracking app for your kids, right? Talking to people of kids at older, it's like, you know, people like, you know, oh, I don't know what I was going to say. It's a 4.30?

Yeah, 430. I'm out. Sorry, carry on. So I took this picture of her and I fucking, I loved it. This was her, this is what I was like, what she doing? And that's what she doing. Oh, so you're just doing that. And she just did left turns.

Just did left turns. She goes, next week we do right turns. Oh, amazing. How amazing is that? That's incredible. Can she track you? She can track me, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's the way to do it, isn't it? It's nice. It's a little bit like, you kind of, is this intrusive? Probably. But it's all right. If you're all tracking each other.

Yeah, yeah. Like my mother laws on there. Can you track Emma and Emma can track you? Emma can track me all times. Have you ever been anywhere where you thought, I don't know if would want anyone to look at well not even like

Where do you think I go? Oh no but like Something a bit embarrassed You know like sometimes you say a little white live I say you finish work at five Yeah Yeah And but you go like oh

The Pops running over at 7 Because you're going to go for a couple of beers Right Or you might want to have a Cheecher McDonald's On your own Right Of coming back from you may not want people to know about that You've not been there

You've been there where you're like Well a couple of times Like me and Isabel and Ace Have a secret WhatsApp group called Golden Arches Which we which we go to McDonald's. It's our little thing.

Emma's not on it. Emma doesn't approve. And so I will just message them just a question mark. And they'll just get back to me straight away and we'll disappear to McDonald's. I love it. So sometimes, but she'll track us there

and she'll go, I see you. So that's when it falls down. And you did, because on that phone thing, you and Emma did that amazing show where you looked at kids and smartphones. Yes, yeah. Has that affected how you've parented since? I think so.

I went into it with quite an open mind, right? Because I was like, phones are now so part of our life, right? Like, how can we really expect our kids not to have this? You know, and I kind of went into it with a really open mind about that. And we did this show and it blew my head apart. Like, I mean, how kind of damaging they are to kids in every possible way that you. you could damage them.

The phone is kind of doing that. And it definitely made us think twice. But then when they went to secondary school, they had to have a smartphone because their homeworks on it, their schedules and all this kind of stuff. So we were told we had to get them a smartphone when they went to secondary school.

And then, but now Trixie will definitely not have one. We're going to work out some of them. There's some really cool. The fact they call them dumb phones doesn't help though. No, you've got a dumb phone. You've got a dumb phone. That doesn't really work. They've got more than, I don't know, special phones or something.

Yes, you need to rebrand, isn't it? The analogue or something like something called. It sounds bit underground and, you know. Retro. Retro. Yeah. No. It's a slightly shitter phone.

You could call it like 90s phones, couldn't you? Because that's a kind of... That's kind of cool. Yeah. 90s is in, isn't it? Yeah, Rob's got two phones. Has he? Mm.

Really? Yeah. Why? He's a drug dealer. Boundaries. Personal phone, work phone. So all my social media and stuff and all my work emails are on that one. Personal phone.

All it's got on it is an email that no one else has got, but I need it to access like calendars and stuff like that. Right. And so all I have it is my calendar, so I know what's going on. Yeah. And friends and, like close friends and family, but very few. Yeah. So whereas, like, I've got my, no, he's not on it.

Parking apps are on there, like Google Maps and all that. So I get around, park the car, pay for stuff. And then when I go out, I've just got that. So even if I do want to look at it, I can't do any work. and I'm not going to get stuck on Instagram or TikTok and stuff like that. That's a brilliant idea. Yeah. Like when you first tell, I was like, why are you on second phone?

That's weird. No, but I don't have to, I won't have it on me now, but I'll have it. I'll use it like 9 till 6 in the week. Then in the evenings, when I'm at home and not working, goes in a draw. So, you know, when you're just over sometimes, like, you're a brilliant idea. I'm doing it. You just convinced me. I just convinced you.

I need that in my life because otherwise I feel like I'm always on. And also, what about what about 360, you'll have to be tracked on both phones. Yeah, that's fine. You just have dad work, dad personally. Yeah, yeah. Why are they separate? Why is he saying he's here when he's there?

Yeah, yeah. So I'll get into it. They've also, then what you do with Emma... Dad's on his work phone, but his personal phone seems to be at the McDonald's. So I don't know. No, but then you can put on the, in the McDonald's group, you just add in your new personal number. Right.

And it has no impact on the other people because you'll see every message because you'll always go to both phones. Yeah, yeah. And then you reply on either phone, it'll just, it doesn't matter to them because they'll still be able to contact you. That's great. Because I find in the evening, if I go, right, I've, work's getting on my nerves or stuff, put my phone away,

I sit there and go, oh, yeah, so what are we going for holiday next year? Blah, blah, right. Should we go on the, you try to go to your calendar, you haven't got that. You can't search or anything. You can't turn the, you know, so. Yeah, great. Love it. That's, that's my spiel over.

I think it's a bloody good idea. It is a good idea. It is a good idea. The problem is, it's, I've asked him this so much on the podcast that we are going to have to chip into that, Michael, because I think that's about the sixth or seventh time, Rob's explained it. Yeah, absolutely. We're right.

We'll clip that down. Yeah. We'll clip that down. I should tell, I don't know where that personal phone is at the moment. I'll try us again. I've heard you've got two phones. I think it's a great idea.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a drug dealer. Yeah, I love you chatting about your two phones. Yeah. That's true. The third time Rob spoke about his two phones was great. Yeah. But Michael can sort that out.

I'm sure he's got enough time in between photoshopping bicep veins. Yeah. He's got more time than we thought. Guys, I'm a bit slow on the edit today. It's getting a bit busy. Stop photoshop in your own body. This episode is. brought to you by Axa Health. Family is a strange thing. You can be related, but you are completely

different people, aren't you? I mean, you've got one kid who needs a plaster for a microscopic scratch, another who wants to keep playing football after twisting an ankle. I think, Rob, we know that I'm the first one, you're the second one on that one. And a partner who books every appointment six months in advance. I'm one who needs to be reminded of that appointment on the day of it. Everyone's got different needs, basically. Which is why ACSA health insurance gives you options. You can include family on your plan, your partner, children and parents, even if you're not. You if you all live at different addresses. And you can choose different cover options for different people

depending on what suits them. Because every family is unique. With the AXA Health Plan, you and your loved ones can all have peace of mind. So for cover that cares, choose AXA Health. To get a quote, search AXA Health Insurance. Pre-existing conditions are not covered. How does it feel to be in a couple where both people are famous with kids? I don't know, we've not known anything else, really.

You know, so it's hard to kind of compare. I mean, I think it works. We kind of keep, to be honest, we're not really very show busy. Yeah. If I'm honest, we kind of quite, I know everyone probably says that. No, but you're not really, you go to. We kind of, yeah, we get to work. We do our thing and we go on.

You don't turn up at a lot of things. No, we don't go to a lot of stuff. We don't kind of get mixed up in that. I mean, I did all that in my 20s. You know, I don't need to do that anymore. You went out enough, I went out enough. I did quite a bit of that. You've done your stint.

I've done my stint. They don't need me at some night anymore. So we don't really, you know, we kind of just do our thing and go home. You know, the kids, if I'm honest, find it a bit weird. You know, I mean, I think they don't mind it when it's a controlled thing. Like if Bustid is playing, they get it. You know, like, although my little one was in that pit that I was telling you about it. She was like probably seven.

And she was on my mate's shoulders. And there was some girl like screaming. you know and you know yeah and I know you know shout his stuff

of me and Trixie was telling her off was she that's my daddy you shout I was like yeah also like sticking up

for a mum as well yeah yeah yeah yeah leave it out I was reading your book which is excellent

which we will come to thanks mate you came to I've been sent to PDF I can't read a whole book on PDF

Matt I'm surprised you've even attempted it It's just different approaches to interview Matt

some people like to do the research for me I don't like to get an idea the person before I meet them so that I can actually understand who they really are in the moment.

I totally respect it. Does that make sense? I can tell that from you. Thanks. I think it's the glasses. Yeah. So I would say, Robbie, we invented a sort of moralistic way to not bother to do research.

Is that exactly? Yes, yes, I have. Thank you. It allows me to feel them out in the moment. Exactly. Because, you know, I can't understand who you really are if I think I already know. I'm not going to let arrogance ruin this chat. The only preconceived ideas of the person is.

But luckily Josh is always here. He does read them. But you've, you came from a very well. working class council estate kind of upbringing to south where was it south west london yeah just by kingston just by kingston so interestingly my wife thinks you she was at a 21st birthday party with you oh really because she's fra you wouldn't remember her but she's from hampton right nearby okay that was over the river that's the poshap and her friend was yeah her friend was dating uh charlie simpson oh really yeah what's her friends then i don't know

friend's name was Camilla probably. Possible. What, because of where she's from? Doesn't sound very working class to me. Sounds like one of Charlie's, though, to sort. Yeah, no, he was going out with a girl called Camilla for a long time. Shall I text? Should I ask?

Rose can't have a friend called Camilla. She's not 72. Charles and Camilla. Charles and Camilla! Oh, dear. It was a thing. Yeah, so did you, so that's possible? There's possible, yeah, definitely.

It feels a bit like a superfan's found you on the train. My wife's friend... A party was at a party. once where Charlie was and you're like, fuck off, I'm trying to get home. It's the end of the story I'm worried about. And then our people are... No, no, it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't.

It was just like, oh, I was on... Oh, right, okay. But yeah, so, anyway, you were from... In your book, you talk about being from a very working class background. Yeah. Does that then feel... We kind of cover this a lot

because I think it's a thing that comes up a lot with the people we interview. Does it feel weird that your kids have got a very different background to you? Does it feel weird? Or weird's the wrong question. The only thing that feels weird is that they're quite posh. Yeah.

Like the way they talk. Yeah. And like Emma's like a brummy. Yeah. Yeah. And like, and when she's around other people she grew up with, she's very brummy.

Yeah. And like, I'm from working class background. But my kids are like, daddy. Mm. Which is very strange. Yeah. And but also it, I change my voice when I'm around them a little bit. They make me a bit posher.

Really? Which I quite like. Yeah. I'm not against it. So my kids have been dropping their H's and T's, like almost doing. and the sort of character out where they actually speak quite well

but I don't know it feels like they're doing it to wind us up oh really there's no such thing as speaking well by the way you know each accent is as you know is as good as each other I'll be honest

and speaking as someone with this accent it's not ideal are you built a fucking career on it I'd say it's a pretty well for you but not if I want to be a fucking accountant or a lawyer I've only built a career about making it part of my act

you can definitely work in the city that's you're correct though it's not well it's a different type of way of speaking. Different way of speaking, yeah. But they speak very differently to me, which I find quite bizarre. Like, I remember one of my mates

who I grew up with, it was at my house for a barbecue, and he kind of went to me, what fucking hell's going on here? That's what you mean? He was just blown away, you know, because we grew up together and he was just like,

he goes, mate, you've changed, and you? I was like, yeah. Haven't you? Yeah. A fighter? Exactly. I'm 402.

What the fuck do you expect? But it is strange, isn't it? But I think they just, you know, also I kind of love it. They've got kind of a good life. Yeah, it's amazing. You live in a lovely, leafy area. I do, I do.

I know you've been to the pub nearby. Been there twice. Been there twice. Yeah, I've been for two dinners there. I met the teachers at your kid's school. One of them used to work on the last leg, strangely. Really? No.

Yeah, he came over and I was like, Rufus? No. And he was like, Rufus. Camilla, what's going on here? I'm going to really fill out the loop of this chat. Why did he go in for dinner near his house? Because it's near the studio, so me, Joe, Joe and Emma

often go for dinner on a Friday night. What a gig for Emma, that is? I know, mate. Well, we moved there because we lived in Crouch End, and she was doing Big Brother, and it was a ballade going to Elstere all the time. So we were like, right, okay, we should probably, you know, move somewhere nearer your work,

because you're there all the fucking time. And we moved there, and Big Brother finished the year after. and she's not been there since for 10 years. And then she's suddenly got this job. We're like, alright, Graeme. Oh, it worked out. We don't need to move again. It's good. So let's talk about the book that Rob's not read.

Yes. In it at the start, you say, you did write a book before, but you didn't like it. I kind of always was like, I knew who I was writing at four, right? They always tell you, like, I've watched loads of these things. To be honest, I've watched all these things on, like, masterclass and things like that about writing and, like, how to write books. Because I didn't pay attention at school. It's really well written. Thanks, mate. Thanks. I mean, I try really hard.

And I knew who I was writing it for, the reason of the book was kind of someone, you know, if you're struggling with addiction or if you know someone who's struggling with addiction, you might be to get something out of this. And that's what I was writing for. Because it's not like people don't know what you've been through. Yeah, yeah. Do you know, like it is, it feels incredible. It doesn't feel like you've held back and it feels really honest. No, I think what I held back on in this was the kind of mess story, the kind of like real kind of like, I don't know. When I got into recovery, like there's a lot of, I.

I got a lot of, I resonated with people's stories and I saw them and I saw and I heard what they had to say and I was like, I don't recognize that in you now. What have you got? And that's what I want. Yeah. Whatever that is, that recovery is, I want it because you speak like you were someone like me and now you're fucking not. How did you do that? But then the longer I was in recovery, I was like, I don't need to hear about the mess. I want to hear about the hope.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was what I kind of wanted to make this book. Because I think that that sort of, you could have hundreds and hundreds of those stories, but that doesn't help. anyone because it's basically one thing to go this is kind of things were going on because I felt this way and I didn't want to feel this way so I had to do this to fill another way and now feel like this and that's the interesting stuff. So like what for you that was there a point where you like what do you think was driving

that diction because really it's not because people love drinking or love drugs it's there's something else going on inside. I mean I love drinking I love drugs. I did very much very much left very moorish. but no I think I think that's what that's what's in the book it's kind of like looking back and maybe like the stuff I've written about like I didn't know how far to go into kind of upbringing and stuff like that but I did go a little bit into that because I think some of it can kind of tell you

where certain behaviours come from and certain kind of feelings towards yourself can come from and I think that's what it is in a way and the more I'm the more I kind of work in this kind of world of recovery Like I speak to people every day in addiction. And like about a year ago, I realized something. I was like, oh, we're just completely incapable of feeling anything. Like, we can't feel anything.

Because as soon as we feel something, we need to fucking take it away. You know, like, and now, like, it's learning to deal with that, I think, which is what had a real problem with. I just didn't know how to feel anything. Yeah. And I just numb it. And then the more you do, the worse it gets, you know. And then it's kind of a cycle repeats.

you know. And how do you feel about your this book being out there and would you want your kids to read it? Would you? And how much do they know about stuff like this? I mean, they know enough. I mean, I mean, Trixie doesn't know that much

but the other two, they've kind of That's why you're not going on our phone. Yes, exactly. Exactly. No Google for her. No Google for her. I think the other two have kind of been around me long enough to know what I'm about, you know.

And like, I think they know enough. And like we did a documentary a few years ago and Emma was in it and it was about kind of addiction and stuff like that and it was a bit of my story and Isabelle watched that because she was about 14 I think when it came out and I was like your mates might watch this or your mate's parents yeah want you to be kind of armed with some stuff and she wasn't surprised you know she was kind of like I kind of knew that about you know yeah yeah I think I've talked about it a bit too much probably yeah we get it dad daddy doesn't drink I get it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Because you were fun. So how long ago did you sort of stop drink? You've been sober for a couple of years now? Three and a half years.

Three and a half years. How long has it been now? I haven't learned a drink for 16 years. Wow. But I had a relapse with cocaine alone nine years ago. Like a four-month kind of. Really? Mad.

In the main, though, you've sort of been sober since the kids with little, really. Since Isabel was about, I bounced. I was trying to get sober when she was born. and I've done periods of sobriety then I fuck up and periods of sobriety and then when she was about six to nine months old nine months old I think

I quit then so was it were the kids coming the catalyst to get a handle on it or do you think at that stage you'd be doing that anyway to get a handle on it I don't know if I would be I think I would have been

still very much in it if it wasn't for kids really I think I think Isabel was the reason everything happened and I think that's kind of like that people talk about changing you right like being a dad kind of changes who you are but i think it really really did you know for me especially it kind of like made me kind of go oh okay like it's not all about me which is which is an awful lesson is awful lesson to learn i hated learning that lesson it took me

fucking ages you take your age yeah it took me a while you know but um but then it really is like i'm like oh i'm responsible for someone's fucking life and if i keep behaving the way i am i'm gonna ruin that thing yeah which is beautiful and amazing and i'm going to be the reason that it grows up like me, you know, or whatever, you know, and I was like, I was not okay with that. So, um, so that was what changed it. Oh, wow, that's amazing. It's incredible, yeah.

She's 17 now, so she's probably going out drinking and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, turn into it. Yeah. Yeah, do you go, you know, remember that documentary, I'm sorry. Exactly. I think is, I don't have a problem with, like, no, of course. With anyone, like, I can't.

Yeah, everyone else seems to be perfectly okay with it, which is, like, annoying. You know, but I'm like, you know, so I don't have a problem with whatsoever, you know. They're quite different as well, aren't they? Mate, they're so different. I mean, the parties they talk about, I'm like, this sounds fucking lame.

It's really weird now. It's really weird. But everyone's got a phone. And no one's that like a dickhead. Yeah. I'm like, wow, that's so bizarre. Yeah. No one must be a meme.

But do you think, like, because you had that in you, right? That's, you know, psychologically. Yeah. So even if you had grown up in 2026, you'd have gone the same way, really, wouldn't you? Because I don't think phones would have prevented. No, I don't think it would. Do you not think it would have prevented me? I don't think it would have been the same wherever I was, wherever I was good.

People ask me that a lot. And they're like, do you think being in a band was the reason that you, and I was like, no, I was behaving like this long before. We were kind of like famous. I think having loads of money didn't help. Yeah. Yeah. And a team of people saying, yeah. to whatever you wanted yeah yeah that was um well that was very much my picking those people yeah of

course you know that's where people like to blame that but i was like i picked those people around me i was like this one's gonna let me do what i want you can come in but um but yeah i think it's very much um like i would have done it whatever yeah i think you know it's in me and that's what i think about kids as well like it's like it's like because obviously there is a genetic part of this is right well right like people talk about this is kind of like with addiction there's a genetic aspect of this but i don't think it's as simple as that i think it's um i think it's like a a like a multi-pronged thing. It's like if you've got the genetic disposition to it

and you've had a fucked up childhood and you've had this going on and you hit a moment of fucking high pressure or whatever, things can spiral, you know. So try not to fuck them up. Well, yeah, because I think if you've got, you know, let's say if you've got a genetic disposition to like, well, when you have a bit of alcohol,

you want more and that's some of the way the chemicals run for your body. Yeah. But then that's not the sole thing. Like if they've got a problem, if they feel they can come back to a supportive home and discuss it in a calm matter. it may stop them going down the pub.

Yeah, completely, yeah. To, like, top up and stuff. And I think, I've always sort of, like, admired you and Emma from afar, I think we've, because you've both, like, got careers in the limelight. And I'd say both your careers are sort of, no one's career is, like, straight up or straight down or level. It's like, there'll be points where, like,

you'll be more well-known or more successful than Emma at that point, and Emma and back and forth like that. Yeah. Which I could imagine, for some people, be a very difficult part of relationship, but I've never really got that from you guys. It always feels like you're very supportive of each other, And it's not like competitive where it can be.

We're a team, you know, and I think that's, we've always been like that. You know, I love the fact she does well. Yeah. Out of her. You know, she's fucking awesome. She deserves it. Means you can play golf more. That's the goal.

That's the goal. So if you can all keep this job, because then I can retire when I'm 50, I really fucking appreciate it. Yeah, you just do that. Don't want, I'll take the kids this weekend again. He's fucking Monday to Friday. My own golf. now fuck thanks very much yeah yeah yeah yeah got for you on a saturday she had the radio anyway

she had the radio anyway yeah but she was finished by three o'clock but it takes longer to play around the golf than do a radio too show that's one thing i do do i don't play golf on weekends no that's i'm the same i'm in the week yeah i'm in the week because i can yeah and there's no one there either it's nicer yeah it's nice of the weekends you got some fucking someone at your ass whole time or people playing competitions which i like too much i got that's what annoys me whenever i do want to play on the weekend if i've got like a Sunday 3. There's always a competition on. Yeah. But the divorcees, you've got to go somewhere.

Divorce's got to go somewhere. Let them have it. Would you compete? No. Would that take the fun out of it? I think so. I think it would take the fun out of it. Josh says like the golfs are very strange. There's a real sort of sweep of people that play. Right.

And some of them are hardcore. I'm the complete opposite. People still can't believe I don't look for my balls. I'll hit a ball. Like 300 meters the wrong way into the woods. And they go, you go, look for it? No. What's the point?

I can't get out there anyway. I fucking sniff a dog. Never going to get there. Exactly, yeah. And then they go, oh, well, you don't need to worry about paying for balls. I've bought 100 lake boards for 20 quib. One's got Dunlop on it. They've not made a ball for 15 years.

So what's... Do you want to come on my golf channel, Matt, and play golf? I'd love to. Yeah, that'd be fun. I'd like your golf channel. I'm welcome. Why don't you and Emel come and drive the buggies? How desperity that is.

I'm trying to talk Emery into playing golf, right? She's not got any interest whatsoever. Well, I've actually got a bit of inside info on that. That's just coming to my mind. Come on, tell me more. For Christmas, you got her golf lessons. I did. The whole reason I'm playing golf is because I bought us golf lessons.

Because literally I was like, this before you started playing. Before I started playing. Oh, that's, I never played. and my mate said to me, he's in recovery and I was kind of going through a period where I was a bit swamped with work and life and everything was a bit much

and I was out with him and I was like, do you have a hobby? I was like, well, you know, I've got music and he's like, music's not a fucking hobby, it's now your job. Yeah. I was like, fuck, yeah, it is. You know, I never... It's been your job since you were 20.

So I was 16. But I never sit down and just play for fun. Like, I never do that anymore. You know, I've always got something to do. It's always some agenda with it. So I was like, no, I don't really have. hobby is that you need one so the first one I picked was golf I thought right okay I'll try people seem at 40 to play golf is that right yeah so I bought me and emma 10 golf lessons for

Christmas I thought we could do it together yeah because she needs a hobby as well like right she like I was like you do the you're the same as me you know you need something else outside of but I don't I say that kind of thing to do but she sort of looks at me like I don't need a hobby fuck off yeah yeah exactly don't have time for it where the fuck do you think you have time for it yeah yeah I know exactly what I know exactly what I mean oh if I had time for a hobby Okay. Oh, to have the time. I know the chat, I know the chat.

You know, but so I was like, well, let's try it, you know. And so that was Christmas. And by March, I was like, babe, we're ever going to, it's probably February actually, we're ever going to go for these golfers? Like, she was like, no. Do you mind if I do? And I had the 10 in three weeks.

Right. And I was like, bang. You're in. So now she's like, no, it's your thing. Oh. But is that a bit of your personality as well? You get really into stuff. like before it's been obsessed

you're obsessed very much very much like very into it I quite like getting the clothes I love the clothes do you I'd have thought that would be the worst bit oh no they're cool now

golf is cool golf is getting quite cool I think yeah just don't be put off by all the golfers that aren't cool exactly exactly he's adding so told me through your outfit

and then let's hear robs I'm well I like to I like to look like I could be playing golf or I could just be going to the puff for a drink Very smart casual outfit. Yeah, exactly.

Sorry. Back away. I'm going to dress like I'm lining up apart or doing a line a car. Exactly. Exactly. That's what I'm going for. But that I agree because it can look a bit. So you're not...

I don't want to look like a pro golfer. No. That's the one thing I don't want to look. I don't want to look like I'm all fucking hat and matching stuff. You know, I feel that's a bit too much. Yeah. Plus, I think you've got to be fucking brilliant to look like that. Like, like, checker trousers and like a kind of...

I think that's a bold move too. That's not quite my move. A sluggish jumper, maybe. Yeah, maybe a bit more for content because I've managed to make my hobby a job again. That's the mistake you've made. Yeah, I know. Let's not a little go through my mistake.

It's not a mistake because I was watching it with a bit of jealousy. So I was like, this is a way to make it like okay because I'm running into trouble now. I'm like golf again. But if I'm filming it. Thank you. It's clever.

Yeah, 100%. And also what you can do is if you, you know, sometimes, I'm not saying this. Promo. Don't forget, I've got a book, boom. Back, exactly. And we could play like, you hit the book at the driving range.

Exactly. It's up there, and we try to hit the book. Busted talk tickets, 10 a.m. Friday. Also, as well, you know, if you have got a YouTube channel, you will have work expenses. Oh my God, right. Okay, so you put the gold. Of course. You know, I need a golf club to film a golf channel. Of course you do. And I need somewhere to play.

Right, great. I need some clothes to wear. I would be wearing in my normal life. Love it. Because they're golf clothes. Yeah. Amazing. Does the HMRC watch this? What's that?

Oh, no. Watch YouTube if you want to see where it's going. Exactly. I'm right. I'm not like, I'm not trying. It's very true. Got an incredibly unprofitable business. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Oh, God, I can get free cover. Oh my God. HMRC guy, he's got to fold this. This guy. He's really committed to this business. This guy needs to start watching Stephen Bartle. He's had a nightmare. He just seems to be bowling around the country

losing money after day after day. Yeah. But I'm happy. I've earned plenty of money not being happy. Why don't I try the other route? I heard him fuck all. Love in life. Love it.

Or any of your kids, to bring it back, to bring it back. Are any of your kids? Do they play? Do they, I wasn't going to say golf. Do they play music or? They're all musical. Are they?

Yeah, they're all upset. They're all, they were all well in it. Yeah, we've got a house full of. Oh, have you? Absolutely. And I love it. Jazz fans, everyone. I love it.

Because you're in Cabaret, right? I was, yeah, recently. I mean, I've been in loads of theatre. I think that's when I first started fancy. You? When I lived in Cabelliner. Yeah. Yeah.

You ever seen me in drag? No. Oh, it's something else. Really? Yeah. How often is this happening? Well, I did a Robin Romish drag episode. Oh, right, yeah.

So I've seen you, obviously. Yeah, do you want to get me up? Yeah, I want to see this. Camilla. So I went to look at it, and then I've just got... No, my name wasn't Camilla. Oh, no, you went to my wife's 21st. Oh, it's your wife's 21st?

Yeah. No. Yeah. Well, this is before you knew her. Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah. So I met her before you did? No, I don't know if you met... So, yes, Camilla, who worked on Buzzcox with my wife.

Yes, yeah, yeah. Oh, right. It was my 21st a nightclub in Westbourne Park called Woody's. Yeah, my God, fucking hell, yeah. I'm, I'm been there a couple times. So Camilla and Charlie at Woody's. I'm pretty sure it was around the time that Charlie Simpson bought a Porsche, which really stuck in my head. Yeah, that was right.

I bet it did. Yeah, that was his second car. That was his second car. Really? He had a mini for three months, bought a Porsche. Yeah. Boxster. felt a bit like a hairdresser. So bought a Ferrari.

Bloody hell. All within a year. Different time. Different time. Different time. Different time. Here I am. I just spit it all the drugs.

Oh my word. What did you think? Oh my God. I mean, that is so scary. Yeah. I've got a topless picture. Can I please have another look? Yeah, you're welcome.

Yeah. She's a big old girl, wouldn't she? She's a big scary girl, but also looks like someone that I've probably met. I think she's mentioned in the lowest points. I mean, there's something very scary about that. It's like grop bags is glow up. It's really interesting. Yeah, it's very interesting, yeah.

It's very interesting. And that's what I normally say about someone I fancy as well. Can I ask you another question, then? Yes. I said it could be a long 15 minutes if you don't. I fucking love this podcast. It's easy, isn't it? It's so great, mate.

Mine is so serious. I love this so much. Is it all about recovery then? every episode. No, it's kind of like we branched out. It was about recovery the first season just about recovery, but we talk about, I'm not promo in that, but it's about

Yeah, you can't. Primal out of it, man. It's very good. And it's about kind of like, it's called on the mend. It's about looking back at life's toughest moments to figure out how to move forward. So it's like looking back at what something awful happened, how did you get through it, where are you now,

that kind of thing. That must take it out of you to host. When there's free in a day. Oh my word. Yeah. I try not to do that. Yeah, it's heavy because it's their big vulnerable

moment. Yeah, yeah. And you've got to allow that, you know, so it's it can be, I can go home, you know, wanting to watch your golf channel. Well, yeah. I don't specialize in that kind of stuff. I specialize more in the sort of, you know,

more relaxed kind of content. Well, that's what I need. When I finish a free podcast, I'll stick on your golf channel. Stick on there, let's go off. You'll wait until I'm on there in 10 years time because I've got addicted to golf. Exactly.

Exactly. I find it's hard. When you're talking to people about addiction, it's like, one you wanted to hear about the journey and the things they're face, but like there is a part of you, and I don't know if it's just me

where you go, like, I'm addicted to whatever, and you do want to go, well, how much was you having. Exactly, exactly. I'm quite like numbers and details. Numbers and details, yeah. But yeah, that must be quite an intense.

And I'll busted back. Where are busted at this stage? Busted right now are on a little bit of a timeout. but next year we're writing we've been writing for a bloody hell I mean a year and a half

does it feel like you can appreciate it more this now than that yeah because there's the three of you you know and there was points when that didn't look like that would happen no no definitely not and you're obviously in a much better place

it must be joyful now to get to do it have that second chance at it I love it I mean it's been through so many weird times busted I think like it's a really weird kind of like time in pop music, you know, but it's, but it's brilliant now.

But it's, it's fun. And we're adults. Yeah. And we, you know, we, nothing really lingers anymore. Like, no one's got a problem with each other because if we have, we'll say it. Yeah. And it's not a big deal. You know, I just think, like, we never talked about anything.

We were like, like Charlie was 16 when he joined the band. Like me and James started when we were 16, but we didn't get Charlie until we're 18. Yeah. And then, um, you know, so we've been like, we've grown up together in those kind of four years. So by the time we're 21, we'd split up. Really? It was that... It was like that quick. From like 18. And then he started another band. He started another band. Yeah. Fight star. That's amazing.

That's so young still. So young. And then we weren't together for eight years, nine years. And then we got back together. So was that sort of your hardcore partying years then once they broke up? Because what was you doing then? Just sort of being a rock, living laugh of a rock star about a band. I did a solo record, which is very unsuccessful because I was a fucking wreckhead. and like not turning up to studios and stuff it was awful time

but I mean I look back at it now and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was but I think having less to do and having a problem with drugs is a loads of money because drugs will fill a gap in the schedule they will fill a gap in the schedule I know what I could do with my time

you know yeah stick out of my nose which I did for many many years you know but I think yeah it was when it got really bad yeah and being back now, like, it's so wild to, because you were so,

I didn't realize how young you were, how old you now? Forty-three. So we're the same age, so I was at uni when Busted were coming, like at their peak, actually, yeah. God, I didn't, it felt like you were older than me. It didn't feel like you were going through that, and it was done at 21.

Yeah, we broke up when we were, when we had a press conference in 2005. Oh my God, you had to have a press conference to break up, like, take that or something. And then, I know. Did you want to break up at that point? It was a Samaritan's helpline. Was that? Fuck.

Yeah. Fucking crazy. Ironically, you needed it the month? Exactly. They didn't give me the number. You read it out, but you didn't have a pet. And then did you not see Charlie for years? Not for years.

No, we didn't speak to him. No. Wow. I mean, I think that was mostly his Tuesday. You know, he was kind of done with it. He wanted to do something else. He wanted to rove himself from it, you know. Yeah, because it was very, like, obviously,

super popular, which also means you get super hate. from other people that aren't into that genre, then you have to break, then you come back, then obviously McFlyer exists, which in your head is sort of like opposing gangs, but then you come together for another tour. It's sort of like, if you had to have every kind of thing that could happen to a band,

it happened. We've kind of done it already, yeah. Is there, surely a three-part Sky documentary ready to be made about you? Four part, Minneman. Yeah, we're all right. I think we're okay. You got to scratch that it.

We don't pick at the scab. We don't need to go there. Yeah, we don't need to go there. It's all going swimmingly now. It's all going to swimmingly now. Let's not talk about that. Let's not get him on sat down in rooms. Hey, well, okay now?

Great. Let's move on. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah, cool. Yeah. The arena's four.

We must have just got up. Exactly. It's not wrong on the boat. Did you play Download Festival? Yeah. So I thought that was an amazing moment because I was there filming with Ramesh. Oh, were you there at the same time as us? Yeah.

Yeah. So we were filming that show where we went and sang. I watched it. Yeah. Was you there? Yeah. Oh, you didn't see it. I didn't see a live, no, no.

So we're at the same time, and then I was like, I heard that Bustin a Planet download. And I was like, it felt a bit odd because obviously that's a heavy move. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, you couldn't get near the 10 and everyone in there was absolutely loving it. It was incredible. You must be nervous for that. I was a little bit until I turned up at the site. Because we've had a few gigs like that where I'm not, I'm not sure if this is the right booking for us.

And they've always been okay. But download was like, when Busted was first big, no one hated us more. than the kind of like hard rock. Yeah, the corang. If you saw a Pantera t-shirt, you're duck in your head. Exactly, exactly. You know, or, you know, like, anyone kind of like, and also that was a music we loved.

We loved like, we were a big kind of pop-punk guys and emo and kind of, you know, a metal, and it was all kind of our music. And they fucking hated us. You know, like, we go to, like, I remember going to a gig and being ridiculed by the singer whilst I was in the crowd. Oh, my God.

Yeah, like, literally I was watching a band. I don't want to fucking mention them because I hate that. Chesney Orgs is a nice guy when you see him. He's still in that to you. He plays the one early three times. He's got a lot of days. He's all the time. Yeah, he's got to all the time.

Now, he's taking strays. Poor, Chesley. I know, I just thought it was a funny word. Funny name. So brilliant. So we're Chesley Oaks. I haven't heard that in a while. I know.

Well, legends. So you went to the gig. I went to the gig, yeah, and I was in the crowd. And then the singer, obviously, between songs. And someone went play busted. and he went, did he know you were there? No,

and he was, what'd you say? And they went, play busted. And he was like, why the fuck would I play busted? They were like, oh,

Matt, he's in the crowd. Oh, my God. And he went, yeah, you'll ban shit. Oh, and then everyone started booing me. Oh, my God.

In the crowd. And I was like, I didn't pay for the ticket. But I was there to support. Yeah. What bands was this? I don't want to say money,

oh, come on, afterwards, afterwards. You put a lot of money behind the bar that night, I imagine. I definitely did, I definitely did. Yeah, yeah. I was trying to make friends. Yeah.

You know, didn't go very much. Fuck. Did you leave or did you start? I left. Yeah, yeah. I left. I left. Oh, my God.

During the shit. And that's kind of without going, that's kind of. You got booed out of the building? Pretty much, yeah. Well, no, I was getting, I was getting booed. And then the next song started and everyone kind of didn't pay attention. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, not paying. It feels it in a bit of my time to leave. Yeah. All the time to leave. That's your time to leave. Oh, mate, that's brutal. But it makes you feel like shit because also I love that band.

Yeah, I love their record. Well, I don't like them anymore. No, I don't know who they are yet. But when I find out, I'm going to hate them. Yeah, yeah. Because that's kind of Charlie struggled with that as well, and that's why. Yeah, yeah. I think that was the biggest problem for him is that also when he joined the band, right, we'd made demos.

We hadn't got signed and we've made these demos of like me and James have wrote the whole album. And we pretty much demoed the whole thing. Very simply, very rough. and he thought he was kind of joining the British Blink 182. Right. And then we launch and we're on the front cover of smash hits. And we're on CDUK and stuff like that. And he was like, this is not what I bought into.

Got you. You know, and I think he was suddenly like, he was suddenly in a world where he wasn't really meant to be there. And then everyone he loved hated him. You know, so it was kind of like you can understand what he's going through. You know, like I could understand it because I was kind of going for it too. But there was also a part of me that going, shut up, it's fucking awesome.

Yeah, of course. I was still like, kind of like, mate, this is unbelievable. Look at what we're doing. Yeah, because also as well, you could have easily transitioned to slightly different albums if you wanted to after that,

but I suppose when you're young and it's not what you want, everyone's got their own. Absolutely. And everyone's making money from you as well. So they're just trying to keep this fucking train on the tracks. They're the real one, no.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were just, we were just falling apart. Yeah. Oh, God. Oh, God. Yeah.

I feel bad now because we had a smash hits. When I went away to America for two months and we got smash hits Top Trumps. Yeah. I remember Charlie Simpson being the best card in the deck. Really? Because he's tall. Yes.

Was that points on top trunks being tall? One of the things was height. Yeah. So you didn't want to get. Did you resent that? I did, yeah. I did. But I was still taller than much buena.

And I always wore. Full of much. Yeah. Shortest in the deck. Yeah. But Charlie had a forefactor of 90s. out of 100. Wow. That's a huge four.

Yeah. Huge four. Yeah. Massive four factor. A four factor. You've got to find those top drums. Yeah. If I'd still got them, I'd avoid it. Also, it reminded me, do you remember when we found my reviews from the student newspaper? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, that used to write? I used to write reviews the student newspaper.

And I reviewed Air Hostess, I think. Oh, really? Or maybe year 3,000. Right. I described you as a national treasurer. Really? Well, Matt himself? No, the three of you.

You're a third of a national treasure. I'll take it. I'll take it. A third of a national treasure. You're a third of a national treasure. I'll take it. Or half of a national treasure in your couple with Emma or a whole national treasure when you're playing golf on your own. Exactly.

I'll take them all. Such a sweet talk. Your book is called. It's called Mending. It's out now, I think. Eighth of October it's out. It's out. Depending on when this releases.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's out. Oh, yeah. Go for it. Also one thing, we ask everyone this about their own partners, not just about Emma. What's the one thing Emma does as a parent where you go, oh my God, she's incredible. I'm so lucky to have kids with you. And what's the one thing she does as a parent that slightly annoys you a little bit, but you haven't brought it up.

And if she was to listen, she'd go, yeah, you might have a point. I think the thing that she does is that I just feel lucky about is that, you know, I said it before, but we are very much like a parenting team, you know, and so she'll not ever try to win anything. you know like she'll let me have moments of glory so like if something's happening and I can I can make them really happy like she'll she'll almost encourage me to do it she'll let me have that moment

because I think for mums they get a lot of that anyway you know that's why we have to really sometimes work at it and she'll let me or she'll maybe encourage me to do it no dad did that yeah dad did that yeah yeah she'll do that which I love just giving me glory it's all about me yeah yeah just makes me look better makes me look better yeah it makes a little better dad and a thing she does which really annoys me um as a specifically as a parent we can talk about her as a

person and just as a human how many years have you been together it must be like we've been together 22 or any criticisms of her at work could help to any thought any feedback any feedback getting feedback and presenting styles um what did she do that really really annoys me as a parent um do you know like nothing really annoys me with that she's that's not true she's she's she's a she's a warrior right and i'm a bit like let them make mistakes you know i'm a bit like let them you know i'm a bit more kind of it'll be all right they need to learn a hard lesson but she's very much like no we need to maybe next week continue doing left Is it?

Exactly. Exactly. On your second lesson. Where would you say you two fall on that? I think it depends on what it is. So in my experience, whatever you've got hang-ups about from your childhood will rear up for your children. So if you had issues at school with friendships, if they're having issues at school

at friendships, whichever parent had the bigger issues are the one that's more anxious about it. If you're a bit worried about, like if you weren't very good at PE or your diet, and stuff as a kid, you'll be more conscious. So, I think we're in our relationship, it just depends on whoever had a bit more of a negative experience of the thing that the kid's experiencing

will be more anxious about it because they're thinking of being that age and how they felt then. So it chops and changes quite a lot really. With education, for example, I'm just like, who gives you shit? But Louis's got a career as being a teacher. Oh, my.

That must be so hard. Yeah, so I would be like, it doesn't really matter. I would have acted if I just don't do the homework and they go, well, is teachers say, I'll just say, we just don't do homework. Yeah. And then that would be that. I'd do a piece to homework in my life and I'm fine. Yeah. Which again, isn't a great example.

I've got a non-profital golf channel. But then that's, but I should. But that's bad for me because I should be saying to the kids, I should have done more homework and engaged with it, but I was so vulnerable, nervous and scared of education. I just rejected it, which isn't the right approach. Yeah. So going, you should just do what I did. didn't do me any arm, you feel like you're giving them confidence,

but you're not, you're giving them an excuse. You're so right. That's bad on me and Luz doing it right. Man, that's just changed my perspective or something, because I'm very much the same as you. I'm like, who cares? You know, why do you, like, who cares about Emma's very much like, oh, come on, they need to try as hard as they can.

And I'm like, no, they don't. Be fine. They can do me any arm, part of the eight years are getting on it. Exactly. You know, Fortress to rehab was fine. Yeah, yeah. It's fine. Yeah.

So, you know, I just rejected anything was difficult and I found myself on the end of a load of gear. Exactly, exactly. A couple of near-death experiences

to be good. Or maybe they just do their homework, Matt. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Maybe she's right. Yeah. Fuck.

I think Emma and Lou are probably right and Rose. They're just probably right. I think they're right. They are right. If I, what I've learned from this pod is Looz normally right.

Yeah. Yeah. This has been amazing. October 8th? October 8th. Yeah. Pre-order it now if this is before

or go out and buy it now if it's not. It's an absolute pleasure. Thanks, Matt. Thanks, guys. Matt Willis. Yes. That was a great chap. Love him.

Great guy. What a lovely man. Why don't you learn golf where you can all play together? Learn golf. I've discussed it before and I've discussed it. I haven't got the mentality to enjoy golf. The moment I had a bad shot, it would ruin my day. Yeah, but I'm getting worse at it, but enjoying it more.

Are you? Go figure. That's the beauty of golf. Do you know what I say to myself before each shot? Because you can get in your own head. Yeah. Maybe this is a life lesson here, big up to the people that stayed, rather I'm going, oh come on Rob, this needs to be good. Oh, why aren't you doing well?

I just say to himself, Rob, this is just another moment to be incredible. You don't, do you? Yeah, I say that to myself. This is just enough opportunity to do something incredible. I normally don't, but that's true. That bit's true. It is. This is a moment in time.

Do you say that before every podcast? I say it before every sentence. No wonder you're a bit slow these days. There's always like a minute's second gap. Ask me a question I'll share my process. Rob, what do you think about the Man City financial scandal? It's another opportunity to be absolutely incredible. I think if you've got the money, go for it.

It works. There you go. What a great answer. A little bit kooky, a little bit off topic. He's a fun guy. Taking a different actually stop. Yeah. Bye.