Robin's Nest from American Humane - Professor Theo Pagel, CEO of the Cologne Zoo

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

2023 Kiessling Prize Recipient, Pagel created sustainability strategies and guidelines for conservation education during his tenure as president of the World Association of Zoos and Aquariums. He approaches conservation by inspiring the public and leading high-level strategies to save countless species, from the very largest Asian Elephant to Asian songbirds. 

Welcome to Robin's Nest. So many of us have a deep connection with the animals around us and want to protect them from the pets in our homes to endangered species in the wild. That's why I joined American Humane. As one of the oldest and most effective animal protection groups, we help billions of animals around the world. Join us as we explore how we can build a more humane world together. Hello and welcome to Robin's Nest. I'm Dr. Robin Ganzert and this is the official podcast of American Humane and Global Humane, the nation's first and most experienced humane organization focused on the humane treatment of animals all over the world. From certifying zoos to being the first boots on the humane treatment of animals all over the world. From certifying zoos to being the first boots on the ground in crises and rescues.

Helping to ensure that animals are safe in the filming of movies and on sets globally. And that one billion animals on farms and ranches are treated humanely. And our military, veteran and military dog programs. Gosh there's so much to talk about with american humane's power to touch lives and keep animals safe but today we're talking to the 2023 wolfgang kiesling international prize winner professor theo pagel we want to hear what you think after you've listened please make sure to review the podcast on your podcast platform. What a joy today to have Professor Theo Pagel

on today's Robin's Nest. He is such an inspiring leader, dedicated to actually making the world kinder and gentler for the animals. Importantly, he has taken on the tough challenges that we face in terms of biodiversity and the challenges with the threats of extinction. He's a true warrior fighting to make the world better and fighting for the animals.

So proud to know him and congratulations to Theo on winning the 2023 Wolfgang Kiesling International Prize for Species Conservation. Well I'm so thrilled to have Professor Theo Pagel join me in the nest today to chat. As you know, he is the recipient of the Kiesling Prize for Species Conservation. Congratulations on winning this prestigious prize. But Theo, what a privilege to know you. And thank you for all you work to do for animals.

Oh, thank you very much. I'm so thrilled still about this honor and yeah, I hope that this prize will lighten the conservation projects and the conservation efforts we are all doing and hopefully we can raise awareness that more and more people go on and save biodiversity. I just want to stop for a minute and say in the space of conservation you are one of those rock stars, those legends in the making because of all your leadership roles and leading by example but it all starts at the very beginning and you shared with me about some tad poles earlier. Can you

back up a little bit and say how did you get inspired by nature? I was inspired by nature because I was in contact with nature. So as a young boy I caught tadpoles and I raised them in an aquarium in my room and my father was an animal lover and we were a little bit crazy. So we had a lot of different animals at home. We kept and bred a lot. And that was the reason why I decided to study biology and become a conservationist.

That is incredible. It does usually start at home, inspiring the next generation. And your father did a great job. I think he'd be so proud of you today, not just because of winning the Kiesling Prize, but all the other accolades as well. The former president of WASA, you know, you're the chair of what reversed the Red campaign, which is stunning. You've created so many groundbreaking initiatives in this space. When I think about someone who is so worthy and the vision of what this prize was meant to be,

the Wolfgang Kieslinger National Prize for Species Conservation is definitely you. With all of that that you've done, tell me, was there one favorite project or initiative that you've had in your career that really touched you? That is very hard to say because there were many. I think what I would like to mention is that it is not only me. It's the whole team of experts working at Cologne Zoo and all the other partners we have. So, at Cologne Zoo, we were able to breed endangered species like the crocodile lizard, the Vietnamese crocodile lizard, or the Philippine crocodile.

The most endangered crocodile species we have on planet, less than 100 are out there in the wild. So we bred animals, we brought them back to the Philippines just recently, some months ago. Oh my goodness. And with these animals we were able to raise awareness and we will have a reserve where we can release these animals and start a reintroduction program and that is one of the examples I would like to mention.

So zoos can do and make the difference. So you talk about zoos making a difference. We've also known that there have been a lot of criticism over the years of zoos and aquariums. Zoos as being where they keep captive animals. Zoos are quote-unquote prisons for animals. I disagree with that, and I know you do too. But share why that thinking is detrimental to saving species. First of all, I would like to correct you.

It's only a few who are against zoos and they are loud. So we have done research in Germany, for example, and almost 85% are pro-zoo, only a few are anti, and some have no idea what they really want. But zoos have changed, you know. Zoos are conservation and education centers nowadays. Scientifically run zoos like ours here in Cologne Zoo, Germany, and you have many here in the States.

We do a different job than our predecessors, you know. They started to show different species and we are now really on an eye level with other NGOs working in the field of conservation. And that makes me very happy that we can contribute and we can reach out to the people. We can really get them interested, enthusiastic. We can tell them the story why biodiversity is so important. Without biodiversity we cannot live. And biodiversity is not only some species of animals. It's about plants, it's about habitats, biomes. So everything together will help us as humankind to survive on this planet. And without, there is no future for us.

But we have many stories of success and of hope. So I'm very optimistic that we can change the world to the better. I love your optimism. And first of all, I love too that the recent studies in Germany show that most everyone's pro-zoos and aquariums, which is a beautiful, beautiful thing for the space, because we know that's where we help to inspire the next generation of conservationists, like you were inspired by those tadpoles and those other creatures your dad had in the home. What a beautiful story there. When I think about the challenges we face with the loss of species that led you to be part

of an incredible effort called reverse the red can you explain to our visitors in Robins Nest what is the red what are we reversing and what does that loss mean to our planet so the IN, the International Union for the Conservation of Nature, they have a so-called red list and we assess and we find out what is the status of the species in the wild. Unfortunately at the moment we know that 40,000 animals, even more, are at the moment endangered. That is about a third of all animals which we ever assessed. So tell me that number again. 40,000 species are endangered. And that is a point where I have to say we have to do

something. You know that the extinction rate is 100 to 1,000 times more than normal through us, through humans. So we have a responsibility and the species survival commission of IUCN and the World Association of Zoo and Aquariums, they have initiated this campaign or let's say initiative Reverse the Red. We want to reduce the red from the list and we have three goals. One is to start a movement like you know Greta Thunberg, she did a great work in Europe to raise climate change to the mind of the people. We want to create centers for species survival. That is what we will do when I'm

back in Germany. I have talks to people who are interested in getting a position in Cologne Zoo and we want to raise next year the first World Species Congress. That was always the idea of IUCN and together now we want to raise this awareness. Probably it will become a 24-hour virtual online conference and we need to get this story to the people. We need to save biodiversity and it's not just for the species it's for us as well. I'm very happy to co-chair this initiative with my colleague and friend Jean-Paul Rodriguez,

who by the way was the first winner of the Wolfgang Kiesling International Prize for Species Conservation, which makes me very proud and happy. And that shows that I think we are on the right track and together with the society and and the experts we have to and we will succeed to make a better planet and you say it was with such definitive energy I love that I love it and that's very important because it can seem daunting when you see the numbers when you see the numbers, when you see the red, when we hear and see the news lines, the headlines that say one million species at the risk of

being gone, plant and animal species in our lifetime or our children's lifetime. Those numbers are so staggering, but yet you speak with a definitive optimism. So let's go into that World Congress again that I know that you're creating, the first ever of its kind on species conservation. Who would be invited? Who's included? Who could tune in as you build this out? What are your thoughts?

So the idea at the moment is that it is not just a specialist congress. So we will open up and that is quite easy because we do it online. So the idea is to have a congress all around the globe, that means in different time zones and beside this global event we want to have so-called side events in different zoos and botanical gardens, natural history museums, wherever. So we will have the chance to talk with people in person, but we also will inform.

And our hope is that many, many people will join so that we can reach out. And it's not just in our small glass of experts. We need the societies, we need to spread the message, and we need the people to get active. And we do everything we do in the conservation circle. That means we assess, we plan and act. And unfortunately, we have assessed a lot, we have planned a lot, and now we need action. And action has to be taken in a proper way but really in a fast time. With urgency and I hear that so much through you, through Wolfgang Kiesling, through John Paul Rodriguez, it's the urgency because we have a clock that's running against us.

We are in this race, we're waging this war on extinction for sure. You know one thing that when you talk about collaboration through this new virtual Congress that you're creating, please know that Global Humane would be a proud contributor to the cause. We'd be happy to help sponsor such a brilliant convening to bring together different groups for communities of change.

And one communities of change that I hear that's so active, which is fun to talk to, are garden clubs, believe it or not. Garden clubs are these local great communities that are building butterfly gardens and all to help with the pollinators and everything else. It's beautiful what people are trying to do in their own backyard, but they need guidance, and they need to feel supported,

and they need to feel part of this. So that's what you're creating is a whole movement. Yeah, and I can only add what you said you know we have people who have a so-called stone garden in front of the house and they are calling me and my colleagues in the zoo and say we have no insects and we said okay take out of the stones don't build insect hotels, have a flower garden like you said the gardeners they can, you can do so much for biodiversity in your backyard. So everyone has a chance. And you know that 700 to 750 million people come to zoos and aquariums around the globe.

And I always say, if every one of these changes a little, we change a lot. Yes. And when we talk about the number of different species, when you break it down and you just claim one that you want to work with and help save, that's great too. Then it becomes manageable for us as humans as we think about what we can take on. I love that.

And I love the idea of what you're building, this huge virtual community for change. That's exciting. That does bring me hope. We're gonna pivot quickly and talk about the challenges that we see with biodiversity. We've seen a huge amount of wildfires. Climate change is in the news every single day

with floods that have been historically impacting Europe. We've seen wildfires where we've never seen fires before. We've seen earthquakes that are so rare killing thousands of people at a time. Shocking communities where we seem to see this happening more and more. What is your experience because I know you've traveled the world. Yes so I was was, after 25 years, in May, again in the western part of Canada. 25 years ago, there were brilliant intact forests,

and this time I drove through the valleys, everything was burned, and it was really sad to see. But all these catastrophes, they show there is a change we need to act and climate change and biodiversity loss are connected yes so we need both we need a proper climate and we need the biodiversity which is able to live under the circumstances and I hope that this signals will really force ourselves, but also the politicians to make the right decisions and not to think in the term of your election.

You have to think in five, 10, 20 years. And that is so important now. And we cannot wait for the future generation to do that. It's up to us who are now in the positions to make the right decisions. So with the help of everyone, the young, the older and the medium generations, we I think can change and I have my office 100 meters from the River Rhine. As a young boy I would not have been able to swim in the Rhine because it was so much chemicals inside. And now sermons are swimming again up to the river.

So we have these stories of success and yes we can. I know someone else said that before, but yes, we can. And that is exactly what we need to do. Please let us start to act. So that's really been a theme that we hear often in Robin's Nest is the need to act and act now and with urgency. It's all part of our moral compass because it's us humans who created these problems that are so gigantic and devastating in terms of their impact. Well I want to move it closer to home, your home actually at the Cologne Zoo. I heard you had a baby recently. I'd love to hear about your elephants at the Cologne Zoo. Elephants are some of my favorite creatures on earth they inspire me every day tell us about your elephants so we keep a herd of asian elephants um we keep them in the system which which we can call fission fusion we keep them in a matriarch like in the wild so there is a family group with a leader female and we have

two bulls two breeding bulls and they come from time to time to do whatever they want to and have to. And we started to breed elephants in 2006, and since then we have now 13 births. And the last one is born on the 13th of June this year. And it's a female, she's called Zarinia which means a little bit like you can trust her and she is a lovely animal and what we see is that because we don't keep the elephants in on hands anymore like you

can see in Thailand or in the circus we keep them in a so-called protected contact so they are trained of course because we need to do a medical check like you can see in Thailand or in the circus. We keep them in a so-called protected contact. So they are trained of course because we need to do a medical check every day. But then 22 hours a day they can choose whatever they want. So they can go out into their two hectare enclosure and have a swim at the night at three or four o'clock. So they make their decisions themselves and we breed in the herd. So the young males and the young females, they are used and know what happens if there comes a birth.

And the mother who gave birth this year, she was already born at Kowloon Zoo in 2012. So we have grandmother, mother, and grandchild, which makes us very happy because we are on the way to create a natural system of a bonded family. And that makes us very proud. I can't believe three generations. That's very exciting.

And all doing well. I saw some photos you shared. Thank you for sharing. They make me very happy. Do you have any other favorite animals that you'd like to share with our friends in the nest? Of course. Mainly my colleagues and friends, they know that I'm very much involved and interested in birds. I'm an ornithologist. And there's one favorite bird of course that is the Bali Starling, a white bird starling only occurring on the west

coast, west northern tip of Bali. First described by German ornithologist Dr. Erwin Stresemann and I created the breeding program for this bird even before I started my career in the zoo and we are able to say this bird is saved in human care. It's still not saved in the wild because there's still some poaching going on but we have brought back birds to Indonesia, we support the reintroductions in several areas now mainly in the Bali Barat National Park and that is of course my favorite bird. It's a very special bird. It's own genus. It has a blue naked skin around

the eyes and a little crest and yeah I love it. It's beautiful and tell us the name of it again. Bali Starling or Bali Minor. Oh I love it. It's beautiful and tell us the name of it again. Bali Starling or Bali Minor. Oh I love it. I love it. That's spectacular. Well on behalf of all of us in Robert's nest congratulations on being the recipient of the Wolfgang Kiesle International Prize for Species Conservation and if you could close with what that means to you, that would be wonderful. I accept this prize really on behalf of my team. You know, it's not just me. I had a lot of luck and I had a lot of support in doing what we did and it's a teamwork. So

that is the first thing. And I really hope that this Wolfgang Kiesling Prize for International Conservation sends a light to conservationists and says yes go on try whatever you can do we need to save biodiversity and then we get the awareness we need to finish our job I would say so it makes me totally happy especially as I know Wolfgang Kiesling for decades. And it's really a special, very, very special honor. I'm really thrilled. Congratulations. I know we'll be celebrating

in the halls of Congress very soon. Thank you for all you do, Theo. It's a privilege to know you. And congratulations on behalf of all the animals of the world. Thank you. It's a privilege to work for biodiversity and humankind. We hope to welcome you back soon to Robins Nest.

Thank you so much for being here with us today. It's a pleasure.