Robin's Nest from American Humane - The Only Comeback of Its Kind: Dr. Ding Wang, 2026 Kiessling Prize Recipient

Episode Date: September 28, 2026

In 2007, the baiji was declared functionally extinct. Dr. Ding Wang had spent his career trying to save it, and he watched it disappear from the Yangtze River forever. Then he made a decision: it would not happen twice.Nearly twenty years later, the Yangtze finless porpoise, known in China as the smiling angel of the Yangtze, is the only critically endangered small cetacean on Earth that is recovering. The wild population stopped declining in 2022 and has climbed to 1,426, a 40 percent increase since 2017.This week on Robin’s Nest, Dr. Robin Ganzert sits down with Dr. Wang, newly named recipient of the Wolfgang Kiessling International Prize for Species Conservation, to talk about four decades on one river, the loss that changed everything, and why he believes the porpoise’s survival depends on whether people are willing to change.

On this episode of Robin's Nest, we welcome Dr. Ding Wong, who has spent more than 40 years on the Yancey River trying to keep its dolphins and porpoises from disappearing. He lived through the extinction of the Baji and then refused to let it happen again. Today, the Yancey Vinlis porpoises, one of my favorite creatures, is recovering the only critically endangered small cetacean in the entire world that can say so. He's a finalist for the prestigious Kiesling Prize, and his story is proof that a conservation story does not have to end in loss. I'm Dr. Robin Gansert, president and CEO of American Humane Society and Global Humane Society. Pull up a chair. You'll find insight, hope, and action here. Welcome to Robin's Nest Season 4. I am so honored today to have in Robbins Nest, Dr. Wong.

He is an incredible, an incredible leader in China, but also around the world. Dr. Wong, welcome to Robbins Nest. Thank you very much. And I want to thank you for your incredible contributions to academic research, over 300 peer-reviewed papers and journals that have really been a base for remarkable scientific knowledge and inquiry. So when we talk about celebrating science here in our podcast, science, conservation, animal welfare, you represent all of our values. And we're so proud to have you here. Thank you. Yes, I'm very tolerant, you know, to be named as a fanist of this very much important

price. And as you know, we have been doing some research and to provide the knowledge we got from our research to our conservation work. Yes. And I'm very happy to say we really made some progress and the end of the Philippines' property for recovery. Yes. The population is recovery. So thank you again for bringing me here.

Oh, my goodness. Well, again, congratulations to being a Kiesling Prize finalist for species conservation. So deserving. And I have to admit as a judge for the Kisling Prize finalist, I fell in love with your work on that finless porpoise, one of my favorite creatures in Earth that I've only met in China when I was there. And you called this beautiful creature the smiling angel. Yes.

Yes, beautiful creature. Please share with us and our listeners in Robins Nest the story of the finless porpoise and what you've done to help save this creature from extinction. Yes, as you just say it, you know, we call it the many angels of the Yans River, because it only survives in the Yans River. And when we first started to work on this species, at that time, there were quite a few of them, like more than three. Back in, for example, back in 1990, there were like 3,600 of them. In 1990, that's a lot. In 1990, there's quite a lot of them.

But because, as you know, right of China, so-called transformation, opened the door for the rest of the world. And there was so much going on in the Yangtze River. As you know, the Yansu River is called Golden Channel of the country. And transportation, fishery, a lot of construction work and production. All of them bring very much a serious threat to the survival of the Yansu Finis. Yes. So at that time, you know,

the number of the Finnish pop boys had been decreasing and decreasing very much rapidly. For example, I just mentioned back in 1990, there were at least 3,600 of them left in the river and the lake. But back in 2006, at that time, I organized the so-called International Survey. I invited experts from seven different countries to do the range. wide survey to try to, you know, to look for the final left Baiji, the Chinese Rube dolphin, and also try to figure out the number of the Yansafinian's purpose. And unfortunately, we're afraid to see any single Bai Ji, and the number of the Yansir Phine's purpose was also down to like 180 of them. We're a hundred of them. I just want to stop you there because the numbers are

stunning. And I've had the privilege of being in China, privilege of seeing the Yancey River, and the privilege of meeting a finless porpoise. And when you say smiling angel, it's really true. I remember my animal encounter was this beautiful creature pops up and I swear he was smiling at me. And of course, I'm smiling back and I'm making baby faces and names and I just loved this beautiful, precious creature. And I knew that they were facing horrible challenges. But, What we don't talk enough about is the distinction of the Baji, where we just didn't get to it in time. We couldn't get the right resources to save the beautiful Chinese river dolphin. Yeah, it's a really sad story, as you know.

Very sad. Right after China's so-called open the door to the rest of what, some international societies, some scientists, really rode nature to the Chinese government, the central government, to say, as in whether we know, you have two cetaceous species in the Yangt River, and right now you opened your gate to the rest of the world, so can we come in to do some research in the Yangtze River on those two animals? So the Chinese government asked the Institute of Hydro Biology and the Chinese Academy of Sciences to try to find out if there were anybody working on those two animals,

And Chinese Academy of Science also my institute, because my institute is a part of the Chinese Academy of Sciences. Yes. To see if there are any people working on the cetaceans, the answer was no. Because at that time there was nobody working on those two animals in the whole country. So that's why the Chinese government asked us my institute to set up a research group to work on those two animals. And that was in the end of 1978. That when it was my institute set up our research group. Unfortunately, at that time, the number of Beijing was already very much low.

And also, as you can imagine, at that time, the Chinese government and society, everybody was focusing on development. So not much attention paid to the conservation issue at all. at all. It's always development. Always. Always. And the bullshit didn't have a voice. Yeah. So the number was low and everybody was a focus on development.

Even we proposed a company conservation measures. We've got three majors in situ, in situ, ex situ, and the capability breeding. But unfortunately, those three measures was not

carried out very intensively. So the number was no and no much attention paid a conservation issue. And basically, even we as scientists, we have been trying very hard. But we had to watch the animals disappearing from our side. That was a really, really big loss. Not only for us, but for the rest of our world. For the world.

The loss of the baji. And it was a warning sign of the loss of species, the rapid development, having no voice for the animal, and waiting a little too long without enough urgency. And you witnessed this, and I think this helped change your life. Yeah, if you're really sad, you know, the animal, they cannot say anything. But we as a researcher, we have been working on them. We know what's happening and what's going to happen.

So it's kind of a warning sign for everybody. You know, the young three were a dolphin or the Chinese real dolphin and also the Yans Freenest Poppals, they are sitting right on the top of foot chain, which means their status is also status of the biodiversity of the Yans River, which means it's the status of the health of the Yance River. And as you know, the Yance River is just so important for sustainable development of the country.

So we have to try to save, you know, or help protect those species to protect the Yangt's river. That's very much logic. Absolutely. That river starts first. We have to protect the river so it's a safe habitat for these incredible creatures. Yes, yes. So through our work, working on them to, you know, working on to protect the Yang's river. Yes.

So the loss of the Ba'i Ji of the Chinese River Dolphin is really a warning sign. We got something wrong. Something wrong is about the river, which means something wrong is about the future of the country, of the society. Yes, absolutely. So now you've been focusing on making sure this lesson is learned. Sure, yes. Yes, and now focusing on the smiling angel, the Finland's porpoise, and you have said there's recovery efforts that have been successful.

Yeah, actually, you know, after loss, you know, as I mentioned, we carry out this, arranged works, we were back in 2006, and we failed to see any single Beijing. So next year in 2007, we published a paper to say, Beji, it's likely extinct. So at that time, myself and my team made up our mind. We cannot let the Yanse Finney the Boatbois, the smiling angel of the Yangt River, to go the same path of the Baiji. We have to save them from extinction.

So that's why we have been trying to carry our so-called three major conservation, in-situ, and also captive breeding. You know, of course, our in-situ conservation is the most fundamental major. If you are talking about safe species, we have to protect their natural health environment. And secondly, because of the same thing, situation of the Yant River, as I mentioned, there was just so much going on the Yant River. We were afraid, you know, there was not good enough time for us to do in situal consequence to save them from

extinction of in wild. That's why we have been carrying out the so-called ex-situo conservation. We've chosen some area which is pretty much like the the watchment is pretty much like the Yangtze River. For example, the Oxbow. The Ospo means they used to be a part of the Yancer River. So their natural environment situation is pretty much like the Yangtze River. We first chosen an Ospre. It's called Tengozo Ospo.

Tengo is a Chinese name. English which means Swampah. It's a beautiful name. And that area, it was very much like the mainstream of Yans River. And it also is pretty large, like 21 cano-mese long, one to two kinnomino-minute swat, and the fisher resource was rich. So back in 1990, we first moved five Finnish popos into this area to check it out if it's really good for the dolphins,

like Beijing, the Chinese River Dolphins, and the Yansefinite Popoids. And then you turn out the Finnish Popoids cannot only survive, but also reproduce laterally and success. Oh, that's incredible. Yes, so we wrote a report, a proposal, to the Central Government, and the Central Government agreed with us. They set up this area, the so-called Seminature Reserve.

And this program has been going very well, and the population of the Yansefinoffi Popoites has been increasing, And because of the experience we learned from this experiment, we also set up some other institutional, so-called seminatural results. And we set up a so-called seminatory reserve network. And we have several exceitial population, those results. And also we have started a program called Individual Exchange Program to enrich the genetic diversity of the population in those reserves

and also to improve the genetic structure. Right now we have more than 160 animals surviving in those reserves. And each year, 15, more than 15 babies, born in the reserves. So this kind of, so we call it a seed population, it's already, basically it's already, establishes. It's an insurance population.

Yes, the insurance population, which I love. It's so important. You have to have them. Yes, yes. Just in case, you know, the animal cannot survive in the answer. And furthermore, we already started reintroduction or release program. We released, we trained first, then released six animals from a seminary to, reserve back to the mainstream of the Yantz River. Oh, my goodness. It's a big victory. Yes, a kind of, you know, closed conservation loop.

You know, we have animals in a cemetery reserve. And in the future, maybe we can renew some animals in our bones, or our pools. So we just closed the loop of conservation. And four of them were released back in 2003. And two of them were released back in 2003. And two of them were released last year. We have more animals trained in some small side chain of the river. We are going to release them this year and we are going to release more in the future.

And also the third major is called captive breeding. You know, we started to keep a small group of animals in our facility. By the way, our facility is the only one in the world, not used for commercial purpose, not for making money, but only for research and education, for raising public awareness about this animal. So we can have some students and some other people from society to come over. We don't charge them at all. Actually, we guide them to see the animals, and also we give them some talks,

some lecture about this animal, about the youngs, we were about the protection of the natural. So it has been serving as a very much important base for a public awareness program. It's wonderful. And since 1996, we have been keeping this small group of animals in captivity. And we have four, we have six babies born successfully in the reserve. And among those three, we have six babies born successfully in the reserve. And among those six, four of them are second generations. That's incredible. And for those that are new to the space in Robbins Nest,

one of the best indicators is can they have babies? Can they reproduce? Sure, yeah. That's a sign of health. It's a sign of welfare. It's the best indicator. So when you're talking about these numbers, not only are you talking about saving a species,

you're talking about that there's great health in this population and all of that and all the fundamentals. are working, which is wonderful. Yes, next time maybe you have a chance to come to China, please with us with our animal, yes. I'm going to. I'm going to be back in 27, and I can't wait. I definitely can't wait

because I have to get my fix for the Finless Porpo's. You know, I have to see them every few years because they're so precious. You know what I have to say is that it is so important is, first of all, we always talk about conservation has no geographic boundaries, and the

important work that you've been leading in China is also good for us to remember that conservation knows no geographic boundaries and it's also a long game. This is not something that can be remedied overnight. You just can't fix. We couldn't go into in 1993 and say, I'm going to save the Baji and it happens. It's a long process. Sure, yeah.

It's complicated. There are human factors involved. There are governments involved. There's a will to save the animal, but there's also big businesses on the other side. It's a complex operation. Sure, yes, you're right. But you have done this for decades as a leader, and you have made real change. What would you say to our young people tuning into Robin's Nest about what they should do

if they want to get into the space of saving species? Yes, you know, during my career, In my early time, it was really difficult for me. Because I just mentioned, you know, at that time, everybody was focusing on development. When you were talking about conservation, you know, people would say, yeah, yeah, that is important. But they're just saying something like that, but they would not do anything. So myself and also my team was getting very lowly because we couldn't get much support. As you know, as a researcher, we have to, you know, pick out, you know, gather some data to write some papers.

Yes. And of course, for doing that, you need to get some funding. Yes. But at that time, it was really difficult for us. Yes. I'm sure. I'm sure. So I was called by a.

A Germanist called a lone warrior. Yeah, because it couldn't get good enough support. A lone warrior. Yeah, a lone warrior. But as I was saying to my staff, my team, I say, if there is a light in the heart, there is a way ahead. A light in the heart, there's a way ahead.

Yes. Because we believe what we have been trying to do is right. We're not giving up, even it is so difficult. But we believe it's worthwhile to do that. And we have to do that. Even we are the only team, only person in the world to do this. Yes. But we have to get something done.

And I'm very happy to say, of course, it's part because of our insistent and our hardworking. The young fitness poor boys is on the way of recovery. For example, back in 2017, the white population, not including the so-called X-C22 conservation population, the white population was like 1,012 animals left in the wild back in 2017. And in 2022, the number stopped decreasing, but instead, increasing. Yeah, it became to 120.40 line. And based on the survey, we carried out last year in 2025, the number increased to 1,426. Which means 40% increasing in 8,0006. Which means 40% increasing in 8 years from 2017.

That's incredible. That's a really good sign. And I believe to my knowledge that is the only example of very much indentured small cetaceans recovery in the world. So when I saw my first finless porpoise, it was back in 2017, 2018, and I knew they were on a slight bit of recovery, but still, your growth number since then is a huge victory in the space of conservation. It's a huge, huge victory up against unbelievable odds. And I know when I got into building out this program area for American and global humane society, we had a flag amongst our team that was like, remember the Baji.

And now we use the story of the Vakita. Remember the Vakira. And when we see species disappear before our very eyes, when we know it was preventable, it's something that changes you. It just changes you. And you were changed with the Vaji. But now you get to go into your next day and say, but you made a difference for the finless porpoise. And those of you that have been equally as decimated by the loss of the Vakita, I challenged you to do what this brilliant man did. He took his passion and energy and saved another species.

There are a million out there. Pick one, choose one. Yeah. And let's make a difference. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Wakita. Wakila, it's also a really sad story. As you know, as you may know, back in 2017, there was a big international team.

They raised some money to try to learn from Chinese to do so-called existential conservation because at that time, Well, Kita was already really, the number was really no, only several tens of them left. Back in 1990s, there were several hundred of them left. But at that time, people were focused on so-called Institute of Conservation. But actually, they failed. The law enforcement was always a big issue in that water,

and California, Gulf of California, from Mexico. So they finally decided to know. from the experience of the Chinese people doing and protecting the young Finnish purpose. But unfortunately, that capture operation failed. One animal died, and another one, they caught. They had to release it right away because the animal was getting very nervous.

Actually, I know this very well. She was a very good. She is a very good scientist. She's the chairman of, for a Marine Mammar Commission of USA. Yes. And she told me it was really, really sad experience for her because that single animal died in her hands.

There were a lot of tears that day. I know some of the people on that, those recovery teams, and a lot of tears and a lot of angst, anguish, pain. Yeah. So that's why they organized a workshop back into, 2018 last year in Germany and they invited me to go there to give a presentation to tell them what's happening in China what have you been doing on the Yans Finney's Poppes. I shared our story. So one of the lessons we have to learn from the north of

Beijing and the situation of Guakita and also the successful story of the Yansifinit purpose is that But we have to work on animals you are trying to have for a long time to learn good enough for you to carry out any kind of action. Otherwise, if you react really late, it's going to be late. So that's also one of the reasons we learned from Beijing, and we are going to learn from Wakita. Absolutely. And we have to learn these lessons, we have to act with urgency, we have to talk as a group more across geographic boundaries and learn lessons quickly.

We don't have time. Time is not our friend. No, no. In the clock against extinction. Time is not our friend. We cannot wait any longer. There is just so much going on, so much happening in the world. We have to act quick enough. Otherwise, we are going to. to lose our chance. That's right. But you certainly have had a win here that gives everyone some energy, positivity of 40% increase in that short amount of time is stunning.

And you're part of saving a species from extinction. Thank you. I'm glad myself and also Martin, we have been making some effort and we also made some progress and I'm very happy to share this story with the rest of the world. to have everybody know, you know, if you determined to do something, you can make some change. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Great way to end this episode of Robin's Nest. I want to thank you so much for joining me today. And Dr. Wong, congratulations on being a finalist for this prestigious prize. And again, most of all, thank you from the animals that you have saved. It's an honor and a privilege to know you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We are concerned of the animals and of the later. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Robin's Nest. We want to hear what you think. Please make sure to review the podcast on your podcast platform. Watch for upcoming episodes that will include new and exciting discussions.

If you love animals, you'll love this season of Robbins Nest.